POLL: Immigrants Report Growing Anti-Immigrant Sentiment, Fueled by Racism
By on Mar 28th, 2006 at 12:12 pm
POLL: Immigrants Report Growing Anti-Immigrant Sentiment, Fueled by Racism
As the Senate takes up debate on immigration reform and the right wing steps up its inflammatory rhetoric, a new poll released today finds that about 2/3 of legal immigrants in the United States believe anti-immigrant sentiment is growing and is fueled by racism.
Additionally, 68 percent of the respondents favored the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill. Nineteen percent favored Bush’s temporary worker proposal and only eight percent favored the House’s enforcement-only bill.
Republicans – Say goodbye to any gains that you made iwith in the Hispanic community.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:19 pmThe Democrats are going to have to work really hard to screw up in 2008…
March 28th, 2006 at 12:23 pmIf you don’t like homosexuality shoved up your ass you’re a bigoted homophobic. If you don’t like millions of illegal immigrants breaking in to your country filling your prisons and bankrupting social services you’re a racist. It’s all so very simple when you’re a ratbastardcommie****tard isn’t it?
March 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pmIt’s all so very simple when you’re a ratbastardcommie****tard isn’t it?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Your mama.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:33 pmAnd if you criticise Israel, you are an anit-semite…. good morning Adolf, I see you are ready to debate immigration with your usual brand of reasoned intelligence.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:33 pm#2 – Don’t jinx it! The Democrats (bless their hearts) could end up screwing just about any opportunity!
The problem is the Republicans are in lock-step and have the MSM bent over a barrel and have been ripping them a new “opinion” since the 80’s and especially the 90’s. The Democrats are the party of “inclusion” and don’t require you to sell your soul in order to join.
Because we allow free thinkers into our party means we don’t continue to chew the political carcass after we’ve made our point. The Republicans, on the other hand, never give up until the issue is forcefully ripped away from them.
What I hope is that the American citizens wake up to how badly Pres. Bush is screwing the country and decides to give the Democrats a chance to set things right.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:34 pmIf you don’t like homosexuality shoved up your ass you’re a bigoted homophobic. If you don’t like millions of illegal immigrants breaking in to your country filling your prisons and bankrupting social services you’re a racist. It’s all so very simple when you’re a ratbastardcommie****tard isn’t it?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 12:31 pm
No one is forcing you to either be gay or hang out with gay people. They just want you to stop coming into their bedrooms and forcing them to behave by your standards.
There are better ways to handle the immigration problem than resorting to fueling racism. But it’s a Republican tactic that started when your great great grandfathers pitted the slaves against the immigrants to take the focus off of their behavior.
Comprendez?
March 28th, 2006 at 12:34 pmoh…if they pass the House version….Lordy…if that happens, they’ve:
1) Insanely enraged the Hispanic and Latino community
2) Freaked out social workers and doctors
3) Pissed off LOTS of churchs and their influential pastors
4) Emboldened and woke up the REALLY wingnutty portion of their base, who’ll start asking for crap like putting them all in camps, using them as slaves, or shipping them all to Antartica, or something similarly batsh!t insane.
5) Slapped back into reason a huge majority of moderate Americans who now realize how whacked out crazy things have become with this Admin…
Please, for those reasons, pass the House version. It’ll be suicide on a level never seen before in politics…
March 28th, 2006 at 12:34 pmIts odd that the only group of people who can get 1/2 a million demonstrators out on the street to protest the government’s policies are the immigrants – what happened to the rest? There’s a quote somewhere (Founding Father I think) that argues that people who win their rights are mush more likely to defend them to the death than those who are born with them….anyone?
March 28th, 2006 at 12:38 pmThe republicans were gaining ground in the hispanic community. Most latino’s are Catholic, and the supposed republican values match closely with catholic beliefs, no abortion etc. The biggest impact could be on presidential elections, with Florida, and California, not only having large latino populations, but also a huge vote in the electoral college, means that both states would easily be swayed to vote democrat.
IRI have you ever meet a homosexual? I am guessing that not many live any where near you.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:38 pm#2 – Don’t jinx it! The Democrats (bless their hearts) could end up screwing just about any opportunity!
Funny how you can add that phrase ‘bless your heart’ to any insult and get away with it. Watch:
I-RIGHT-I, you are a pig, bless your heart.
Bless your heart, IRI, you bigot.
IRI, bless your heart, you’re so filled with hate.
See? :)
The problem is the Republicans are in lock-step and have the MSM bent over a barrel and have been ripping them a new “opinion†since the 80’s and especially the 90’s. The Democrats are the party of “inclusion†and don’t require you to sell your soul in order to join.
I think we need a strong Independent actually. Someone with no allegiances to anyone but those who he works for (that’d be us for the neocons reading this)
What I hope is that the American citizens wake up to how badly Pres. Bush is screwing the country and decides to give the Democrats a chance to set things right.
Comment by Democrat Soldier — March 28, 2006 @ 12:34 pm
I think they have. It’s just that no one representing us is doing anything about it. Looks like we’re gonna have to break out the pitchforks and mob mentality again…
March 28th, 2006 at 12:39 pmHow did homosexuality come up in an immigration post? Could it be that “Right between the I’s” is projecting his inner most desires into every post he can?
Come out, come out, whoever you are!
March 28th, 2006 at 12:40 pmWhat I hope is that the American citizens wake up to how badly Pres. Bush is screwing the country and decides to give the Democrats a chance to set things right.
Clinton was able to set things right from 1993-2000.
Let the hate filled rants about bill begin.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:45 pmAs a Latino Democrat I resent being “represented” by so-called leaders in the community and pandering politicians.
While I can appreciate the passion of those demonstrating against the immigration bill passed by the House I believe their passion is misplaced. A group of possibly illegal and other legal immigrants were shown in today’s front page of the Post waving Mexican flags !?. It would seem to me that if these demonstrators are truly in search of the American dream they would be waving American flags instead.
As a Latino who emigrated from Venezuela, I have no sympathy for those who cross the border illegally to work in our country. See, I too was poor and desperate to find the American dream. I came to the US as a student and because of my academic achievements received scholarships. I graduated as an engineer and then a small company that saw my potential sponsored me and helped me obtain an
H-1 visa –which took two years- and then a Green Card –which took 9 months. Five years to the day I received my Green Card I became a US citizen. Two years later I obtained my security clearance and now work for the DoD supporting our military. I didn’t need to illegally come into this country. I just had to patiently wait my turn, all seven years worth to achieve my dream of becoming an American.
I don’t begrudge the desire to improve one’s lot, but doing it illegally and cutting ahead in the line of those who wish to come here legally is neither right nor fair.
The real target of Congress’s lawmaking ought to be the hoards of companies that hire these folks illegally paying them substandard wages and then claiming they can’t afford to hire Americans, or that Americans are too lazy to take these jobs. In the case of Northern Virginia, nothing could be further from the truth. With inflated real estate prices, profits from construction sales are at an all time high. What is really at stake is whether builders are willing to cut their profit margins from astronomical to reasonable by hiring Americans to do the contractor jobs. What is at play is pure unadulterated greed and Congress should stand up for defending American worker’s rights and stop the exploitation of illegal aliens for the benefit of a few companies that aren’t willing themselves to play by the rules.
In light of the recent Abramoff pay-for-pork scandal, it would be enlightening for the public to know how much the Real Estate, Restaurant, and Agriculture lobbies paid in contributions to members of Congress and compare their voting records. As a Latino and a Democrat I do not support amnesty for illegal aliens, nor do incentives for them to become legalized by having them just pay a fine and back taxes- essentially a slap on the wrist for violating our laws.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:46 pmWhat message would that send to the millions of immigrants that are itching to cross the Rio Grande? Come to America illegally! The worst it can happen is you will just have to pay a fine.
#9
Funny how you say people who are born with rights are the most docile. I agree. I just forsee a time when I have to explain to my future kids….”Yes son when I was growing up there were laws protecting people from invasion of privacy and warrants were needed to search anyone or anything of your possesion. There was also this paper called the Constitution we used to follow.”
Maybe then some people will get off their asses.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:47 pmTake a look at this from the US government DOS site, the history of Texas immigration:
What was the popular phrase at the time? Oh yeah, ‘Manifest Destiny’……
March 28th, 2006 at 12:48 pmWhen you’ve assembled a ‘base’ of wack-a-doodles eventually it will cause the tower to crumble. As U-Wrong-U pointed out the ‘base’ is anti-gay and anti-immigration to name only two of many anti’s that represent the neocons. If the neocons continue to stoke this fire me may see some very unpleasant results. This could get very ugly.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:48 pmThe racist subtext of this bill is confirmed by ab October 2005 FactCheck.org piece demonstrating statistically that more illegal immigrants cross the Canadian border into the United States than the Mexican border. You don’t see much discussion among the politicos about fencing off Canada.
You can view the FactCheck article at the following:
March 28th, 2006 at 12:50 pmhttp://www.factcheck.org/article352.html
There’s a quote somewhere (Founding Father I think) that argues that people who win their rights are mush more likely to defend them to the death than those who are born with them….anyone?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — March 28, 2006 @ 12:38 pm
I think it’s basic psychology also. You value what you earn the hard way.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:52 pmIf you don’t want the Federal Government listening to everything you say over a phone line, then you’re a Democrat who hates America.
If you don’t want Pres. Bush to continue running up the public debt to massive proportions, you’re a Democrat who hates America.
If you are tired of elected Republicans shitting on the Constitution, then you’re a Democrat who hates America.
Interesting how the argument can be changed to highlight one perspective over another just by the subject and the words used to pillory/support it.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:52 pmRead the statistics and don’t confuse people in here… in 2004 there were 42,000 illegals from countries other than Mexico caught at the southern border out of the total of 45,000… caught overall…
March 28th, 2006 at 12:56 pmJohn,
A couple of my best friends are in this country legally. They share your frustrations. As do many Americans.
March 28th, 2006 at 12:56 pmUnbelievable,
I am hellishly frustrated with the Dems and Big Business republicans for falling in line with their big buisness contributors… Enough corruption already!!
John
March 28th, 2006 at 12:58 pmJohn,
My friends feel the same way. Frustrated by how horribly the government has treated them with red tape and changing waiting times and giving them zero rights in return for being good citizens who pay their taxes.
The Bush Administration is teaching people that we do not value hardwork and ethics – just take the easy way out and we’ll call you our base of voters…
Pathetic how much they have ruined this country in just over 5 years.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:01 pmAmanda – how about being fair and reporting the results for everyone, not just immigrants. You are shameless, pandering partisan and you’re only hope of regaining power is to appeal to their worst.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:01 pmAmanda – how about being fair and reporting the results for everyone, not just immigrants. You are shameless, pandering partisan and you’re only hope of regaining power is to appeal to their worst.
Comment by ThinkProgress=Slander — March 28, 2006 @ 1:01 pm
Ignore the troll – it’s only wallace.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#19 got it – Thomas Paine of course:
March 28th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
The government of Mexico, by sending us millions of people, has gained political power inside the U.S.
The Georgia illegal immigration march was organized by a former Mexican Consul General. Was he directed or allowed to do that by his former employer?
What happens if we don’t give the protesters what they want? What happens if we tried to, for instance, deport “guest workers” who don’t want to leave? Won’t there just be more marches and perhaps even riots?
Kennedy-McCain would give Mexico and other countries even more political power and an even greater physical presence inside the U.S.
It’s time for Democrats to step back, take a look at where all this is heading, and decide which side they want to be on.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:10 pm#19 got it – Thomas Paine of course:
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — March 28, 2006 @ 1:09 pm
Of course. Brilliant man. I bet he was fond of turtles… :)
March 28th, 2006 at 1:11 pmIt’s time for Democrats to step back, take a look at where all this is heading, and decide which side they want to be on.
Comment by TLB — March 28, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
Mexico – the 51st state. You think I’m joking… just watch.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:12 pm#25 nice when in doubt attack the messenger.
can anyone do an eye rolly emote?
John-
Thank you for your post, it is a perspective that is needed in this debate.
A better way to frame, might be that we need to assist these countries to achieve economic prosperity, then their citizens would not feel the need to come to the US. The primary reason for illegals to come here, is a chance for a better life, and often to support families back home. If they could achieve those goals at home, they would not be coming to the US.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:12 pmThere is not really an anti-immigrant sentiment as there is knowledge of the fact that the US job market is collapsing and illegal workers cause the minimum wage to remain stagnant! No nation has wide open borders like the United States, which allows millions of people to cross into it yearly! Our nation cannot absorb 2+ million people a year > the economy will collapse!
March 28th, 2006 at 1:14 pmThe Mexican border has to be militarized to prevent terrorists from entering into US and drug running stopped too! Mexico has to start creating jobs for their own citizens now! Illegals who are already here should be given amnesty if they desire to become citizens, but the US has to cut off further illegal immigrants! This has to be done > it is NOT racist!
#14 is the best response I’ve seen to this issue yet.
It is easy to make this an emotional or a racial issue, but that would be wrong and short-sited. And further it would dismiss the people and the problems that are real.
Citizenship matters.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:15 pmIf you like your head shoved up your ass, you might be a conservatard wingnut.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:19 pm#30: Later this week, Bush will be meeting with Vicente Fox of Mexico and Stephen Harper of Canada to discuss the “Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America”, which appears to be the precursor to a plan to join the three countries into one “superstate”.
No longer the stuff of tin-foil hats, the CFR has endorsed such a plan. There’s even a bill paving the way to an “integrated” banking system sponsored by John Cornyn. It would create a “North American Investment Fund”.
Those Democrats who are too PC or corrupt to oppose massive illegal immigration are playing right into this scheme.
This is a wonderful opportunity for Democrats to return to their FDR and JFK roots.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:21 pmIRI’s favorite country song is Emmy Lou Harris’
Won’t you Turn My Brown Eye Blue, Sailor?
March 28th, 2006 at 1:22 pm#14 But you must admit that not everybody crossing illegally the border has the same chances. Many of them don’t have enough culture to become a graduate engineer, as yourself, and become gardeners, carpenters or janitorial employees. Then, what? The bureaucratic USA simply thinks of them as raw meat, and gives no chance to legalize their situation. Just expel them, because they are easily replaceable? Not very fair.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:24 pmLater this week, Bush will be meeting with Vicente Fox of Mexico and Stephen Harper of Canada to discuss the “Security and Prosperity Partnership of North Americaâ€, which appears to be the precursor to a plan to join the three countries into one “superstateâ€.
Sounds like Adolph is getting too predictable…
Those Democrats who are too PC or corrupt to oppose massive illegal immigration are playing right into this scheme.
This is a wonderful opportunity for Democrats to return to their FDR and JFK roots.
Comment by TLB — March 28, 2006 @ 1:21 pm
Yes, but in a nation filled with apathy, I will not be holding my breath. :)
March 28th, 2006 at 1:25 pmWho’s gonna enlist and fight in Iraq if we stop letting immigrants in? Republicans and conservatives? I think not.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI don’t know that fair has anything to do with it. I would like to point out that with the added security on our borders, because of 9/11, it has become more dangerous for border patrol. There have been stories of drug runners, and coyotes offering bounties on BP agents, and an odd story of possible Mexican military entering texas. I will see if I can find that link. I don’t know that further border security will solve the problem.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:27 pm# 15 – You can bring your kids to the Freedom Museum being built in Chicago. It’s a sign of the times that we now have to build museums to teach us about our supposed rights and freedoms.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
I found the link, I was wrong it was along the border with arizona, not texas.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060117-121930-3169r.htm
March 28th, 2006 at 1:30 pmCharts and graphs. Who cares? Don’t you know that the real issue is FLAGS!!!
March 28th, 2006 at 1:32 pm.
Those polled think Anti-immagration is growing and think it is because of racism.
Their thoughts do not make it so.
From the executive summary on the poll.
“President Bush’s immigration proposal was acceptable to a majority of legal immigrants…”
Finally I observed the summary report avoided any questions regarding national security.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:48 pmLets agree to agree, the migrant isn’t the bad guy.
The path to legalization should include that the migrant testify against the illegal employer(s).
11 million visas = 11 million employer prosecutions
Prosecutions will reward the businesses that have followed the law — without sanctions, illegal employers will continue to operate illegally.
March 28th, 2006 at 1:58 pmLike any other poll, this definately shows the iggnorance of the public.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:00 pmPeople, you must keep in mind that HR 4437 is NOT being seen as a Republican bill. It is being viewed as something the US Government is doing. I live in Orange COunty in Southern California. I am being inindated with interviews of Hispanics who think the US Government wants to deport their relatives.
This just like the Repulican corruption train on K street is being viewed as a Republican AND Democratic issue.
They do not know that Senssebrnner is a Republican.
The Democrats are NOT gaining anything from this at all.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:04 pmPerceptions can often be more powerful then truth. Our perception of the 9/11 hijackers is very different then the majority perception of the same hijackers in say Sauid Arabia. It doesn’t matter if racism is fueling the immagration debate, what matters is a majority of legal immagrants believe this to be true.
What needs to be done, is we need to make sure that any measures that say deport illegals also include, any europeons, asians, and africans as well as hispanics.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pmRegarding immigration – Perhaps we need a new focus for some thoughtful discussion, an idea outside the box. Will either party consider this idea for 2008 or beyond? Can it be refined by think tanks, or by university departments of political science and brought up for serious government and popular review?
Europe is uniting. The ten new members of United Europe have economies that are about half as robust, on average, as the original members, but their inclusion in the European Union will strengthen that growing multi-national and multi-ethnic community and keep inevitable outsourcing of lower paid jobs within their large family. Meanwhile in Asia, China is peacefully consolidating its sphere of influence with the re-absorption of Hong Kong and overtures toward Taiwan and other neighbors. Before long Japan, South Korea, and reunited China will be outsourcing their labor-intensive industry to less wealthy and less developed countries in South Asia and Africa. Although fragmentation of the old Soviet Empire and Africa draws a great deal of attention, the long-term trend is being set by United Europe and re-uniting Asia. What are we doing to match this trend?
We have tens of millions of neighbors in the Philippines, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean, who want to immigrate to the US. Why not bring the US to them, by opening up our system and allowing countries to begin a long-term process leading to eventual application for American Statehood. Why stop at 50 states? Why not aim at 100? Mexico is already divided conveniently into 31 states, each of which could become a US state. The Philippines has 76 provinces, which could become US states. Neighbors as far away as Panama may get on the bandwagon and start working hard to meet a stringent list of requirements. Even our neighbors to the north might want to eventually unite with the rest of us in this new concept of a United States. United States of what? Not America, just United States.
What would the requirements be for the established US government to consider the addition of the provinces of another country as new and equal states? My short list is as follows:
1. A constitution that provides a functioning system of democratically elected government officials with working political parties and with legislative, judicial and executive branches at the national and state levels;
 2. Respect for law and a constitutionally established legal system based on equitable justice;
 3. Low levels of corruption within all branches and levels of the government including the police and military;
 4. Health care and medical systems established and functioning nationwide with infant mortality rates at a low level;
 5. Fertility rates at or around replacement level;
 6. Universal and compulsory free education through high school;
 7. Adherence to a Bill of Rights insuring freedom of speech, the press, religion, internal movement, and other basic liberties for all citizens regardless of race, creed, gender, or disability;
 8. A functioning stock market and accounting and banking systems which meet established international standards;
 9. A tax system that fairly and equitably collects revenue from all working citizens;
 10. Land reform where appropriate;
 11. Signatory to international copyright, trademark and patent agreements;
 12. Understanding of and efforts undertaken in the direction of solving problems of deforestation, resource depletion, water-source pollution, loss of biodiversity and ecosystem damage, depletion of fisheries, and global warming;
 13. Internet access nationwide;
 14. A freely held plebiscite on the issue of applying for US statehood, with over 2/3 of voters agreeing to the application.
Once a country says that they want to begin the arduous process of becoming a part of the United States then we will help them to meet these requirements with consultants and through conferences bringing their people together with counterparts from the existing United States. Of course a portion of our foreign aid will be focused on these countries and on this process. Universities, NGOs, foundations, and government agencies can be of great assistance.
Once we have opened our arms and welcomed one country, it may be that others will flock to meet the requirements and to join the growing community. Much of our out-sourcing will become “in-sourcing†and our economy and culture will be enriched by the many voices and the many ideas that become part of our spicy stew. Then we simply will be the United States, unlimited by any geographic designation, not an empire, but a country composed of equals living in parts of the United States, located all over the world. We will compete on an equal footing with United Europe and United Asia.
Just as internal migration brings people from our rural and more impoverished areas to our cities, so we could expect some migration from the new hinterlands to the present US, but the long-term trade-off in terms of bringing labor and taxes in-house should more than offset any short-term disruptions to the system. Also many residents of the current US would undoubtedly move to less expensive states, possibly to help develop their economies, or for the tropical climate, or because their retirement dollars will go further than they would at home. People may feel much safer retiring to Mexican or Philippine states of the US knowing that the laws and police will protect them there just as they would in their home states. The sooner we start, the lower the fertility and the higher the per capita income of these new citizens, and the less eventual disruptions will be felt. At any rate it sure beats the current prospect of erecting fences along our southern border and erecting paper barriers to immigration while sending millions of jobs overseas.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:06 pmCan we talk about this?
Okay, let’s set aside the Right/Left rhetoric for a sec and look at what this “poll” actually says. It’s asking whether the respondants agree or disagree with a carefully worded straw man that begins with a leading phrase: “anti-immigrant sentiment”. The “poll” doesn’t distinguish between legal immigration and illeagal immigration, yet that’s what the entire discussion is about. As for the word “racist”, let’s consider that for another moment. One agreed upon definition is to give or deny one group rights or legal protections based soley on their race or ethic origin. People from Mexico and points south are not being denied any rights based soley on their nationality or race. What they believe they are being denied (entry into this country to work), is denied to pretty much everyone (even the Canadians can’t get away with this one). The presumption that they should be allowed to ignore our laws based soley on their race or national origin is simply racist.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:13 pmI am dissapointed in IRI because this thread is taylor made for his particular brand of hateful bile.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:13 pm“Who’s gonna enlist and fight in Iraq if we stop letting immigrants in? ”
Comment by KillCon 2006 — March 28, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
Kill
March 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pmMost conservatives dont have a problem with immigration but illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants do not join the military.
Comment by Weaver — March 28, 2006 @ 1:58 pm
Great idea!!!!
March 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pmI am gonna have to agree with troll on this one. The problem is illegal immigration, which I am 100% against. There are a lot of immigrants in California, there are a lot of illegal immigrants. It is the illegal ones that are here illegally and are taking jobs from Americans. This is no longer and issue of “they work at jobs Americans won’t” anymore. That is a strawman arguemnet.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:19 pmDave,
it sounds like you are proposing more of an economic zone. I don’t think that say Mexico would give up its soverignty to be included as the 51’st state, or in your description the 51st to 64th state. We already have some of this in place, think Nafta, and Cafta. Perhaps instead of expanding the US, a move should be made to standardize labor laws, and currency across the American continent.
There are still problems though. many of the governments in south america, are either very socialist, or fighting socialist rebels. Your solution would also increase access for the drug trade across the continent. I don’t think any country in Latin America, or south American giving up its country status to become part of the US.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:20 pmKrazny
March 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pmThe drug war isnt working anyway.
I’m glad to see John got in, but the fact was it was easier for him because he was sponsored by a business. They did all the legal work, paid all the fees. My wife had a visa, but was sponsored by way of marraige. It took us 12 years because you have to start over whenever you change address (this includes if you move say from an apartment to a house in the same city). It costs $100 bucks each time you restart.
And for extra info, it costs $400 per person to start the visa paperwork. That’s per person all! Ya don’t think that could be a factor behind deciding to bring your family over illegally, do ya?
http://www.shusterman.com/cgi-bin/ex-link.pl?uscis.gov/graphics/services/imm_visas.htm#inv
March 28th, 2006 at 2:26 pmI know this is a sensitive issue for some, but I’ll jump in anyway. Although I consider myself to be quite liberal on most issues, I am not in agreement with top democrats on the immigration issue. I don’t want to separate families, I don’t want to place people in camps, but I don’t support a guest worker program either. There are legal ways of becoming an American citizen. I do not condone turning a blind eye to illegal activity. There are millions of immigrants who come here legally. I have no problem with that. It’s part of what makes our country so great. I agree with John though. The main interests served by allowing illegals to stay and work are corporate interests. I wouldn’t try to deny anyone the right to come here and try to improve their way of life, but I would ask that the law be followed. Some say illegals pay taxes too, but that isn’t good enough. Sure they are taxed on good that they purchase, but their paycheck isn’t taxed. How can it be taxed when they have no social security number? Maybe someone can explain that one to me. I am not a heartless person, but forgive me if my compassion is reserved mainly for those that have followed the law.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:27 pmEvil Spaniard,
No doubt, unskilled labor has fewer chances, but as someone has said already, American unskilled labor is already suffering from low employment and outsourcing, why are compounding the problem?
50% of all illegal aliens, CNN tells us, don’t have a high school degree. Is that what we want?
John
March 28th, 2006 at 2:28 pmI agree troll,
we need a cultural change to stop illegal drug smugling. If there is no market, then it wouldn’t be profitable, and no one would bother. As long as their is a billion dollar+/year cocaine industry then the risks will be worth it to growers, smugglers, and sellers.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:29 pmI am dissapointed in IRI because this thread is taylor made for his particular brand of hateful bile.
Comment by Mark
See number 3. That’s it. That’s all there is. I’m not as offended by the tens of millions of gate crashers that enter this country as I am those already here that can vote waving Mexican flags, calling the SW Mexican territory and aligning themselves with every communist front group in the country and calling anyone who doesn’t like it a racist. If I had my way we’d ship those bastards off to Mexico and let the others stay and that includes all those pasty white liberal crackers like Ryan and Joe who never have anything good to say about my country.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:31 pmThe linked MSNBC article didn’t seem that infamitory to me. Just said that the GOP higherups are split on immigration reform issues because a large part of their base want it.
Also, I wouldn’t say republicans are against immigration, I’d say we are against illegal Imigration.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:33 pmI for one think we should let as many Mexicans in as possible they like America and as a whole and only seek a better life. It’s those who wish to do us harm we need to keep out and I hope the Dems don’t let the protests tempt them to turn this into political opportunism at the cost of US security.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:34 pmThis isn’t about immigration, legal or otherwise. This is the wedge issue these clowns think will keep them in power in 2006 and 2008. It won’t work.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:36 pmI’d venture to say most legal immigrants like myself, are law abiding and reject the notion of amnesty and lawlessness.
Council of La Raza and others are flat wrong on this issue. Can’t beleive Villaraigosa in LA is saying the Sensenbrenner proposal is anti-American…
Of all politicians currntly running I’d have to say Hillary is the closest to getting it right but she is still praising the “path to citizenship” venue for those illegally here and on that she is flat wrong too…
I don’t like Tancredo either he is a pitbull and alienates sensible people. The Sensenbrenner bill sounds like a good start… but not perfect at all… anyone read it?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:37 pmI-RIGHT-I,
Believe or not, I am with you on this one. As somebody who lives in SOuther California, I see first hand what illegal immigration has caused. The problem is that the projected cost of deporting all 11 million illegal immigrants is $230 billion over 5 years. That is more than the Department of Homeland Security’s (they will be in charge) annual budget.
Where will the money come from?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:38 pmI’m sure General Santana said something exactly like that as he stormed the Alamo.
Look how he ended up.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:39 pmAgain, “Right between the I’s” brings up homosexuality when we’re talking about immigration.
Seems like a Freudian slip, but who can tell with those who are sexually obsessed?
But I’m actually surprised that “Right between the I’s” would say:
“let the others stay and that includes all those pasty white liberal crackers”
I’m not sure why he would allow his opponents to stay in America, but who can tell when you’re as confused as he is.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:40 pm“Also, I wouldn’t say republicans are against immigration, I’d say we are against illegal Imigration. squishypoop”
And you’d be WRONG as usual.
DUHHHH… You should really find a ‘remedial’ blog, something that’s better suited to your ‘talents’.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:40 pmAnyone besides me amused at IRI’s use of the phrase “cracker”?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:40 pmSpudge,
I live in Cali, too. Don’t get me started on how many times I have almost been killed, and the many times I’ve been injured, (I used to drive for a living) by uninsured illegals driving more expensive vehicles than me. But this is a a lae enforcement and police matter. The GOP just wants to politicize it for political gain. They have no intention of actually doing anything about it. Agri-biz won’t let them.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:42 pmHe get’s drunk and blows wetbacks in the bars down in Texas. He used to just fight them but they kept kicking his ass.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:44 pm“that includes all those pasty white liberal crackers like Ryan and Joe who never have anything good to say about my country. Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
It’s hard to say nice things about Nazi Germany – other than good beer.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:44 pmI guess I just do not understand why everyone has a problem with this and I am very afraid cause I kind of agree with troll.
Here in Texas you cannot get white or black people to climb up on a roof or mow lawns or install air conditioners, etc., especially when it is 120 degrees in dead of summer. Many hispanics I have met are good hard working people who just want a job. They do not get into trouble, they are respectful, and they work very hard.
Exactly what jobs are they taking away if there is no one else who wants to do them?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:44 pm#70 – Yeah! Isn’t that like the cracker calling the cracker a cracker?
Well, I guess it’s not as funny when you write it down, but if you can’t laugh at yourself then you must be a Republican! ;-)
March 28th, 2006 at 2:45 pmMaybe we should have invaded Mexico instead of Iraq.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:46 pm#74 – It’s not about the jobs they take, it’s about a wedge issue that can be used to enflame the passions of a country that’s sick and tired of the entrenched corruption and failed policies of the Republican party.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:46 pmIt is funny that MizzWrong uses Cracker, since I don’t resemble any aspect of the term, yet (s)he manifests them all.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Ryan
Source? Or just you stating what you feel like as per usual?
KillCon I think the guy mentioned in the MSNBC link is actually trying to do something about it, but your right about the majority of the GOP.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:47 pm#76 – Not enough oil to make it worth Pres. Bush’s time and American soldiers lives.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:47 pm#52 I beleive that most conservatives I know simply don’t want minority immigration which they feel is all illegal. Be the imigranst Koreans, Chineese, Vietnamese, Mexicans, Guatamalans etc… Poles, Irsh and Germans are still welcome.
Didn’t the republican controlled congress pass the imigration laws which restricted the numbers of imigrants and is supposed to allow in only those with critical skills? I thought that was a mid 1990’s legislative move. Of course I could be wrong on this, but I don’t think so because I thought the outcry was that the new imigration laws did not go far enough at the time.
This is simply the first ina long line of hot button topics which will be brought to the public discussion over the next few months. They will bring up divisive issues over and over to get people on the record and then use that record for political purposes.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:48 pmOne good thing about the conservatives. They relaxed the fed regs on beermaking. all the micro breweries sprang up and I’ll take an American microbrew over any foreign beer. I like Mendocino brewing company’s Eye of the Hawk. 8% by Vol. Leave it to those hippies up in mendo county to make the best beer in Cali.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:50 pm#66: I have a post on the extremely unreliable CAP study you mention here. Their cost to deport all illegal aliens is extremely inflated and anyway no one is talking about mass deportations.
Just enforce the laws. Is that really so hard?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pmMy other fav is just as robust. It’s a local company down here that makes a Scottish ale call Kilt Lifter. Mmmmm!
March 28th, 2006 at 2:52 pmYes it is. Priorities and taxes. You want the fed to raise your taxes and stop prosecuting medical marijuana users?
March 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pmI’d love to see it. Would you?
From the california farm bureau federation:
People want cheap food, cheap goods, cheaply made houses and this requires ILLEGAL labor. The cost of standard wages would raise the price of food, and undermine the ability of farmers to make a profit.
Heck, a large bulk of the workers in New Orleans right now are ILLEGAL, because companies are trying to maximize their profits. They know (suspect) they’re illegal, and do nothing to stop it – while 100s of thousands of displaced residents aren’t given the opportunity to work.
If you want someone to punish, it’s those that hire the illegals at sub-standard wages, cheat on the unpaid taxes for those workers, and americans who simply prefer to buy ‘cheap’ over buying ‘humanely’.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:55 pmKillcon,
I used to live in Seattle, and there are some great micro breweries there. the worst part of moving to cali has been the beer selection is alot smaller.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:56 pmRainman
We were all playing nice till you came along with your hate and rage. Get help, go away or talk like the educated adult youy want people to think you are.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:56 pm#86 – that is so easy for you to write – “your kind” would be too chicken shit to actually say that to someones face.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:56 pmHow many illegal Americans are in Mexico? How many Americans are being given free hand-outs by the Mexcian government? How can illegal immigrants call Americans racists and say they are not criminals when they are in this country illegal? 11 million illegal immigrants in this country and less than 1/2 a million march and protest! Well, if they feel the illegal immigrants are being treated as second class citizens they should leave this country and return home. Do they understand that the big issue is that they are in this country illegal and no other country including the country they are from would allow 11 million Americans to move in without the property paper work.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pmAnd, I am blown away by some of them carrying signs that read We shall overcome! I can see why this issue has become a real concern. This country is too laxed and that’s why 11 million illegal immigrants are in this country. If they don’t start a reform… in the year of 2010 there will be 13 million illegal immigrants in this country and the numbers will only continue to rise…
#86 – And now the true face of the “compassionate conservative” is revealed.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pmIRI have you ever meet a homosexual?
Comment by Krazny
Not that I know of, and since the sexually confused make up only 1 or 2 % of the population the chances are slim I ever will.
I am guessing that not many live any where near you.
It’s highly unlikely but if there are some near by they have wisely opted to minimize while in public the flitting, the prancing and mincing and all the affectations of the sexual deviant.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:59 pm“Just enforce the laws. Is that really so hard? Comment by TLB ”
Yes, because too much of the economy spins on illegal labor. That’s the dirty little secret that people don’t like to deal with.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:00 pmIllegal immigrants do not join the military.
Comment by troll — March 28, 2006 @ 2:15 pm
This was originally published by The Denver Post in 2004:
U.S. military officials say they are shoring up defenses against illegal immigrants and others who may misrepresent themselves and join the armed services.(…) “[T]he citizenship of 16,031 members of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines is listed as ‘unknown.’ That’s about one in 100 active-duty military members who might be U.S. citizens, legal immigrants – or just about anybody else.(…)This month, federal officials set a precedent for lenience.They granted citizenship to Pvt. Juan Escalante, who used a fake green card to join the Army in Seattle and served as a mechanic during the war in Iraq.(…)”
March 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pmMilitary eyeing ‘unknowns’
Proud republican is neither.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pm“Ryan
Source? Or just you stating what you feel like as per usual? squishypoop”
Don’t project your habits on others, it just makes you look even more stupid than you already are.
It’s from a WSJ poll taken a few years ago. It sucks being wrong doesn’t it, but I imagine you have lots of practice.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pmThere are good micros up north in OR and WA but we have them down here. You just need to find the place to shop. Try one of the large Warehouse oulets like Beverages and More, or BevMo, as they are called.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:03 pmI know, but he’s a great foil for my serious posts.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:04 pm“Rainman
We were all playing nice till you came along with your hate and rage. Get help, go away or talk like the educated adult youy want people to think you are.
Comment by troll ”
Blah, Blah, Blah. I posted links and relevant information – so far your posts have consisted of debunked claims, and false information. Your ‘pleasure’ isn’t really the point of this blog, or yours or my participation in it. Go play a video game if you want ot have a nice time – you’re hear to learn, or to teach. Since it’s clear you don’t know anything – STFU and learn something.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:04 pmRyan
March 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmYah, I found it, its from 1996, with how much public perception can change, it’s odd you choose to pick one from 10 years ago. Heres a whole list of 5+ year old immigration polls for the next time you want to cite nostalga:
http://www.npg.org/factsheets/imm_americans_spoken.html
Ryan I agree with you. This work needs to be done. Americans are too lazy to do this type of work. Since we encourage people from other countries to come to the US to perform this work they need protection from these “bosses” who will take advantage of them.
I would love to see one of these republicans tarring a roof here in Texas in mid-July. They would not make it 5 minutes. Yet they don’t want to pay the person doing this job a decent wage.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmIRI
of that 1 or 2% the “prancing, mincing” type make up about 5% of the homosexual population. There is a good chance that one or two of your neighbors are homosexual, either out of closet, or hiding, and you are not only not aware of it, but will never know. The best irony of course would be that one of your sons, assuming anyone will mate with you, is a homosexual.
I think hopefully that proud republican is being sarcastic.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:07 pmI worked at a restaurant with a bunch of latino guys a long time ago. All of them worked hard, most of them worked multiple jobs, and tended to be a good bunch of people to have a beer with.
Kill
thanks for the tip, I have only been in CA for a couple of months.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pm“Ryan
Yah, I found it, its from 1996, with how much public perception can change, it’s odd you choose to pick one from 10 years ago. squishypoop”
So your SLANDER that I made this information was wrong. Are you going to apologize for your smear? Nope, because you’re a MORON and an IDIOT and because I proved you wrong. And I already said it came from a few years ago – so what’s your point dimwit?
You have an alternative poll that casts your reichwing buddies in a better light? Because so far it’s looking like your little ‘claim’ has been debunked. I’m all ears sunshine – give me some ‘facts’, instead of that dimwitted anecdotal opinion you seem so eager to share.
This poll shows that a majority of Republicans hold a deep seated fear or immigration, and even if that ’softens’, it’s unlikely to go away. Just as the latest REPUBLICAN legislation shows.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pmThe immigration debate has been unfair and biased – against those who want to protect our borders and ensure that Americans, particularly those recently laid off by corporations like Ford Motor Co., get first pick at the jobs now being increasingly done by immigrants, in particular undocumented immigrants. Immigration reformers are being smeared and defamed as “racist”, even though the issue is clearly legality rather than race. The term “racist” is applied not to promote intelligent dialogue, but to suppress any and all debate on the subject. The open borders crowd has a completely different set of definitions for nearly any subject – if we cannot agree on fundamental definitions of concepts such as “racism” and “legality”, then we cannot have dialogue in the first place, and there can be no incentive to even begin dialogue. We must develop and display a mutual respect for each other’s right to advocate our respective causes. And, quite frankly, a growing segment of the white community is sick and tired of hearing about “racism”.
The anti-immigrant sentiment is fueled much more by economics than race. In Alaska, there are over 90 different languages spoken in the Anchorage School District. Because of unfunded federal mandates we have such as No Child Left Behind, the first funding priority must be assigned to special ed and to teach foreign students to speak English. Yet Amercian students suffer. ASD’s graduation rate among Alaska Native students last year was 37%. I want Americans taken care of first ahead of foreigners. That’s not racist – that’s nationalist, which is completely different. Most of you would take care of your own family members before taking care of strangers. A nation is extended family, so we should take care of our family members (fellow citizens) first before we take care of strangers (foreigners).
If after this explanation, you think immigration reformers are still racist, then, quite frankly, too bad. We no longer care whether we’re considered racist or not. We will no longer be held hostage to “racism”.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pmRyan I agree with you. This work needs to be done. Americans are too lazy to do this type of work.
Comment by Jules
You both are full of shit.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:15 pmAnd squishypoop,
How about this one from 2003:
It sounds like republicans DO have a problem with legal immigration – although your ‘anecdotal opinion’ claims otherwise.
I could point this one out to you location wise as well, but I say go google for yourself and dig it up. You might learn a thing or two (I know doubtful) along the way.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pm“You both are full of shit. Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
Only my eyes when I read the crap you write.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pmIf after this explanation, you think immigration reformers are still racist, then, quite frankly, too bad. We no longer care whether we’re considered racist or not. We will no longer be held hostage to “racismâ€.
Comment by Anchorage Activist
The race card is the trump in the Filthy Left’s hand. They will never stop using it and human nature will never allow the minority to stop believing it.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#111 – thank you. If I ever had any doubt to the validity of my viewpoint it has just disappeared. If you disagree, I must be right!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pm“You both are full of shit. Comment by I-RIGHT-I â€
Only my eyes when I read the crap you write.
Comment by Ryan Neat
You’re not too lazy to roof a house are you sweetcheeks?
March 28th, 2006 at 3:20 pm#111 – thank you. If I ever had any doubt to the validity of my viewpoint it has just disappeared. If you disagree, I must be right!
Comment by Jules
If you had any doubt you shouldn’t have opened your mouth in the first place.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#116 – I do not want to roof a house, I can hardly hammer a nail. Now if you want to begin roofing houses down here in Texas in mid-july……
March 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pmLOL just like the right played the race card in Rice’s nomination to secretary of state?
March 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#117 – that has never stopped you!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:23 pm#116 – Look out Ryan! Looks like “Right between the I’s” has his eye’s on you “sweetcheecks!”
I guess he’s come to grips with his sexuality and is now ready to start chasing the boys!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:24 pmJules,
your assuming that IRI’s beer gut would allow him to climb a ladder. Seriously I think the guy is some sort of shut in, or mental home patient or something.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:24 pmRyan is too old for him. IRI likes his young!!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:24 pmCommentors,
Would be great if everyone could stick to talking about the issues, rather than going into namecalling —
Thanks!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:25 pm#110 – “Anchorage”, I checked out your web site, and was wondering why you link to the following web site:
The Aryan Alternative
Are you somehow afraid that your “white” genes will be affected by being too close to someone who isn’t as “white” as you are? I’ll wait until I’m at home before I actually visit this site. I don’t want anyone at work to think I subscribe to “that kind” of philosophy.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:26 pmokay, okay now…let me see if I have this correctly?
March 28th, 2006 at 3:27 pm“they” jump the border, go to the front of the line for social services, subsidized housing, food stamps, health care, fall upon medical centers as is the case in Los Angeles where 12 county facilities are bankrupted and closed, Debase the the economy by undercuting wages , and then have spokespersons from La Raza (the race) go on the talk show circuit and then say because those who play by the rules go to work every day pay their taxes get car insurance and are fed up with it all during wartime and these are the racists?
Please someone pinch me I think Ive missed something here?
a few and 10 is quite a difference, I could use this one, taken from 2000, which is closer to us then yours, which shows more dems favor stopping illegal immigration than republicans do:
41% of Republicans and 45% of Democrats support stopping legal immigration altogether. (Gallup poll, October 2000)
Showing that Democrats are actually more against imigrants than Republicans.
The above was listed as part of my previous link, so it was even there before you asked:You have an alternative poll that casts your reichwing buddies in a better light? Which this does, if we use your system of using out of date information.
Additionally, your first number combined illegal and legal immigration into one issue, which they are not. Where is your source “that a majority of Republicans hold a deep seated fear or immigration”? From looking at the two polls you would get 54% R wanted a 5 year stop on all immigration, 48%D want a 5 year stop. Yet more Dems are against legal immigration than Republicans from my survey, so it looks like Dems are against legal, while being for illegal?
March 28th, 2006 at 3:28 pmRyan
March 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pmI am sure you would not have the balls to tell me to STFU to my face you little weasel peace of shit.
I don’ t think there is a simple answer. Expelling all illegals from our country would be cost prohibitive, and in the end not very effective unless we also tighten border security.
Again I think the answer would be to help create opportunities in their home, so it is unecessary for illegals to come to the US unless they wanted too. We could also overhaul the system that vets those who wishing to enter our country and work. we are by and large a nation of immagrants, and closing our borders is not the answer. We need fresh blood, and ideas if we want to stay competitive on the world market.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:33 pmWe wouldn’t “tell” you to STFU, dipshit. You would never know what hit you and you’d be silent while you saw more stars than Ed Mcmahon on Star Search.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:35 pmIt is a very difficult and emotional issue. There has to be some middle ground.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:38 pm“This poll shows that a majority of Republicans hold a deep seated fear or immigration” Rainman
“52% of all Americans favor a five-year ban on all legal and illegal immigration to the U.S., including 54% of all Republicans and 48% of all Democrats. “(Wall St. Journal/NBC, March 1996)
“89% of Hispanic Americans strongly support an immediate moratorium on immigration. 74% feel fewer immigrants should be allowed and stronger restrictions should be enforced.” (Hispanic USA Research Group, June 1993)
March 28th, 2006 at 3:38 pm“41% of Republicans and 45% of Democrats support stopping legal immigration altogether. (Gallup poll, October 2000)
Showing that Democrats are actually more against imigrants than Republicans. squishypoop”
Actually your exact quote was that republicans aren’t against legal immigrants, you weren’t discussing democrats in your claims – moron. I proved you wrong, and your claim was wrong from multiple sources.
Your response? Change the subject instead of admitting you made a false claim. Exactly what I expect from the low self esteem moron reich.
“Ryan I am sure you would not have the balls to tell me to STFU to my face you little weasel peace of shit. Comment by troll”
Ah, now we have the ‘violence’ that comes from the idiot who’s been proven wrong, and can’t stand it. I’ve met many ‘chickenhawks’ like yourself, your bark is all you’ve got. And in your case, that’s lame.
And why would I want to see the face of a fat stupid retarded troll. You and your face should just leave, and learn something. Showing your stupidity on here is just pathetic.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:38 pm#127 – I think you’re pulling numbers out of your . . . . Well, you know.
I’ve checked the “Gallup” website, and checked on all polls done in October of 2000, and I cannot find the one you reference.
By the way, your referenced poll is from the NGP website. Negative Population Growth. Are you saying that Americans should push for a lower population than we currently have?
March 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pm““This poll shows that a majority of Republicans hold a deep seated fear or immigration†Rainman
“52% of all Americans favor a five-year ban on all legal and illegal immigration to the U.S ” squishypoop”
Yep, the MAJORITY (52%) want to ban all legal immigration according to this poll.
Once again, this proves you wrong, but you’re too stupid to read simple english. No wonder you guys do such stupid things, you can’t read!!!!
March 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pmWhat do people expect when the right is heavily promoting racist sentiment with their outrageous immigration “reform” bill. If they really wanted to slow illegal immigration they wouldn;t be criminalizing humanitarian efforts and making it harder for people to legally become U.S. citizens.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
The Truth About Tal Afar: Right Now on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
March 28th, 2006 at 3:40 pmSSA is your source for progressive news, events, and opinion
Krazny
March 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pmHeres my take on it, start enforcing the border, in 10 years make it a federal crime to be an illegal alien. During those 10 years, each year start increasing enforcement of work laws relating to illegals and increase penalities for employing them on a scale also, from the joke they are now, to major fines at the end, and in 10 years if you still haven’t become a US citizen, then start cracking down on illegals already here. This way the economy should have a long enough transition period to not be affected that badly.
John’s perspective on this issue is the most comprehensive and compassionate, it is really the mammon worshipers who contribute most to the pols and benefit most from the cheap labor that are responsible for this situation.11-12 million people here illegaly is of no benefit to my children or theirs there must be some accountability. I wonder if there is something wierd behind the scenes like a Vincente Fox Downing Street moment since he and bush were such good buddies in the begining.I don’t feel racist by believing that low wages replace quality and skill when all the services mentioned are markets saturated by immigrants and any American who would possibly do “those jobs” have no entry from the fierce competition.Since I live in Illinois where the minimum wage is $7.00 and proposed to raise to $7.50 there are many who come here for that reason.But it has also damaged the industrial infrastructure of this state and driven up the cost of living.These spontaneous demonstrations only show that self interest is the most compelling force behind any unity,would that the anti-war movement would display such solidarity.It would behoove the governments to improve the immigration staff,a little job creation could go a long way towards rectifiying this situation,I know of people who are doing everything legally and getting the shaft.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pmwe are by and large a nation of immagrants, and closing our borders is not the answer. We need fresh blood, and ideas if we want to stay competitive on the world market.
Comment by Krazny —
Closing the borders and making this country unattractive to illegal border crashers is the ONLY answer. If we don’t we’ll lose by default all the territory we won from Mexico in a fair fight. Those people are not waving Mexican flags because they want to become Americans.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pm“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it solely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the earth all one’s lifetime.” — Mark Twain
March 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pmThe race card is the trump in the Filthy Left’s hand. They will never stop using it and human nature will never allow the minority to stop believing it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 3:19
ATTN: SUPERDOME RESIDENTS [Jonah Goldberg]
I think it’s time to face facts. That place is going to be a Mad Max/thunderdome Waterworld/Lord of the Flies horror show within the next few hours. My advice is to prepare yourself now. Hoard weapons, grow gills and learn to communicate with serpents. While you’re working on that, find the biggest guy you can and when he’s not expecting it beat him senseless. Gather young fighters around you and tell the womenfolk you will feed and protect any female who agrees to participate without question in your plans to repopulate the earth with a race of gilled-supermen. It’s never too soon to be prepared.
Is Jonah Goldberg the newest member of “The Filthy Left”?
March 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pm89% of Hispanic Americans strongly support an immediate moratorium on immigration. 74% feel fewer immigrants should be allowed and stronger restrictions should be enforced.†(
Comment by troll — March 28, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
Provide a link; I’ve googled “Hispanic USA Research Group” and it came up empty.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:52 pmKillcon
STFU
Rainman
March 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pmSee I admit you were right. However according to your “logic” that makes Dems rascist too.
We should let the illegal people stay but the companies that are hiring these folks should be regulated so they aren’t taking advantage of these folks. There is no way they are going back. If you think they are then you are dreaming. America is still the greatest nation ever. Stained because of our idiot leader, but still great. So ask yourself… Would you leave?
I think these companies should have to pay these folks who are doing the job Americans don’t want at least $50 dollars an hour. Also when there aren’t anymore Americans left to do the job, then an illegal alien can have the job, until another lazy American comes along. If the company doesn’t want to follow this law. Then they should be fined the total labor hours they cheated thier workers.
I think we all including myself want our cake and eat it too. I think its wrong when people sneak into this country illegally. However, I like spending only so much for food and the like.
Its funny to see how Republicans and Democrats are finally unable to come down on one side or the other, based on party line. It will be interesting watching how this turns out. We will definately be able to see who is standing by thier principles. It will be interesting to see how the folks who care so much about the Iraqi peoples freedom, decide how they treat people who are only here to make there life better.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pm#138
So Herr Sgueege is no longer for internment camps; it must be from hanging around with “the filthy left” too much. It’s an improvement I guess.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#112 Ryan
March 28th, 2006 at 3:57 pm49% sounds like a minority to me. So Republicans in general don’t have a problem with immigration, as long as we ignore the poll from 2006 that shows 58% of Republicans want a reduction in legal immigration. (I hate being wrong, but its better than being dishonest)
they are debating a similar thread on rightwingnews.com today. It’s funny because there is a lot of anger towards the republican party for not passing a bill rounding up all illegal’s deporting them to their home countries. this issue seems to be dividing the base for the republicans.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:58 pmOf course, thats just a lower amount, not a complete stop, which I still can’t find a link to.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:59 pmIf I had my way we’d ship those bastards off to Mexico and let the others stay and that includes all those pasty white liberal crackers like Ryan and Joe who never have anything good to say about my country.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
For once I thought I was going to agree with you, IRI. Right on up until you called them “bastards.” But, yeah, I’m a pasty white cracker all right. By the way, when you ship my bastard ass to Mexico, can I live in Puerta Vallarta? They don’t seem to mind that a gringo down there might wave an American flag or wear a shirt with the flag on it.
On the contrary, chilito, they have always been very hospitable and friendly and have been known to wave the US flag down there, themselves—–like on 9/11——and are one of the few countries in the world where US Citizens are welcomed and treated respectfully.
And by the way, pendejo, if you and the rest of the wingers want to send my cracker ass down there, it would save me making the trip every year. Thank you.
March 28th, 2006 at 3:59 pmClosing the borders and making this country unattractive to illegal border crashers is the ONLY answer. If we don’t we’ll lose by default all the territory we won from Mexico in a fair fight. Those people are not waving Mexican flags because they want to become Americans.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
When I hear you say “heavier fines for employers” I’ll know you’re not just toadying for corporations, otherwise it’s all twaddle.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pmOriginal piece was from New York Times, but since they have a you must be registered thing I found the article here.
how many americans will stand outside a home depot looking for part time work?
http://www.equaljusticecenter.org/2005-10-05_NYTimes_2.htm
March 28th, 2006 at 4:04 pmKiss the Hispanic vote goodbye, GOP.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:15 pmIf there were truth in political advertising, the GOP slogan in 2006 would be:
Vote GOP: we hate spics and fags
A platform that I-Nazi-I would love.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pmWatch more other dems vote for GOP libs.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pmWatch more other dems vote for GOP libs.
??? is that even a sentence?
March 28th, 2006 at 4:19 pmRepublicans are stupid and always will be but on this issue I agree. Not totally but I want all undocumented immigrants deported.
My grandfather came to this country and had to pass thru Ellis Island and pass physical and mental tests to prove he was worthy.
He learned to speak English immediately.
Deport all undocumented workers immediately. They have proved their disloyalty and arrogance to America on National Television and are not worthy of the resources I provide as a taxpayer.
See, not all Progressives are liberal!
March 28th, 2006 at 4:20 pmClosing the borders and making this country unattractive to illegal border crashers is the ONLY answer. If we don’t we’ll lose by default all the territory we won from Mexico in a fair fight. Those people are not waving Mexican flags because they want to become Americans.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
I’m pretty certain that Bush is working on The Wall Part II, and making this country unattractive.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:24 pmUbelievable,
the corporations want illegal workers, its a way to keep the bottom line down. Bush is a tool of the corporations, and tends to want what they want. that is why he is pushing for the guest worker program etc. He is making this country unattractive, I sometimes think I should leave, but I won’t let people like IRI destroy our nation.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:27 pm“If there were truth in political advertising, the GOP slogan in 2006 would be:
Vote GOP: we hate spics and fags”
Comment by gmnotyet — March 28, 2006 @ 4:17 pm
And the Dems slogan would be “Vote Democrat. We hate whites and Christians and don’t care enough about the US to secure its borders.”
March 28th, 2006 at 4:30 pmHe is making this country unattractive, I sometimes think I should leave, but I won’t let people like IRI destroy our nation.
Comment by Krazny — March 28, 2006 @ 4:27 pm
I’m aware of what Corporate America wants. I left it intentionally because of the greed and immorality.
We may already have crossed that threshold. With a $3 trillion deficit, half the world hating us, and laws that give Corporate America better rights than “We the People” it will be hard to recover.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:30 pmI continue to hear about illegal immigrants working for low wages and jobs that American won’t work. Well, if the job pays a decent wage for decent work Americans would work those jobs. However, with low wages and all Americans imports being made in China its a matter of time the Great America will become a third world country. Many Amercians are working at Wal-Mart and can’t afford health care. Their healthcare is being paid by the state/taxpayers and Wal-Mart is the world’s largest retailer and their workers don’t make enough to pay for their monthly health plans. Some thing isn’t right with this picture and just about every item Wal-Mart carries in their big dept.stores are made in China! China is on the rise. India is on the rise. Would you Americans like to know that $1,800.00 a year in India is considered middle class? Would you also like to know who are buying Boeings 777 super jumbo jets? Yes! China! Because of low wages and with just about every thing being made in China – the people of China can travel more now! It’s a matter of time that this country will be heading down the 3rd World Path if Americans employers and citizens continue to look for ways to rob their follow Americans of decent wages. Here’s a little more infor for you to think about. All the high-tech games, X-Boxes, cell phones and HDTV, steros – all those items are not being made in this country. Amazon, Mircosoft, and a few other big companies are employing more workers from other countries. Look at the America’s Auto Makers… There is no fair trade with Japan with America’s cars. I have been to China and Thailand…and let me tell you some thing… you don’t see any American cars! And, when I travel – there is no way I could stay longer in other countries unless I got approval. The illegal immigrants in this country – are not and will not and can not go to any other country and live and work illegal. It takes a fool to think that the Reform Bill shouldn’t be Reform. Well, that’s why there are 11 million illegal immigrants in this country! I can’t and won’t embrace 11 million illegal immigrants who believe they are to be given the same rights as American citizens. Those 11 million illegal immigrants can’t and won’t join any wars that this country may have to fight. I believe instead of protesting in America they should protest in their Country for jobs and ask to be treated fair. Sure, they will work low wage jobs – but it backfires on the taxpayers when they get sick without health care. It taxes our system when they go to jail. There’s some good reasons why some people in this country is demanding a Reform Bill. Many states are afraid of what happened in Cal. Cal had to close some hospitals because they were kind and provided health care to many illegal immigrants and didn’t get any money. They had to close hospitals. It is time for America and Americans to look at some issues and I believe its time for illegal immigrants to take their issues to their country and demand their rights as citizens of their country and demand jobs. Immigrants make the American dollars and send their money to their home country to support family members. I understand that. I believe that takes more money out of our country. Hell, middle class Americans can’t afford to buy a house making $40,000 – $50,000 a year. And who came up with the Immigrants Benefits that they can get in this country? There are many reasons why people want to come to America. They know they can get benefits and maybe get rich if they are discriminated against. There is no other country that allows that. I would like to group together about 11 millon illegal Americans and go to Mexico and see what would happen. Or, to any other country for that matter.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:31 pmI’m pretty certain that Bush is working on The Wall Part II, and making this country unattractive.
Comment by unbelievable
Not hardly, he’s working up a deal that will make the border between us and tens of millions of Roman Catholic peons invisible. It won’t be long before there will be an image of the Virgin on every other tortilla.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:33 pmHe is making this country unattractive, I sometimes think I should leave, but I won’t let people like IRI destroy our nation.
Comment by Krazny
Good luck with that. At least 60% of the people in this country think like I do and don’t think much of losers like you at all.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pm1) There truelly is a myth amongst the latino/south american illegals in this country that all they have to do is get enough people into south western America and they will be able to use their defacto numbers to reclaim Texax, Nevada, Arizona, and parts of California.
2) All societies throughout history has used cheap (temporary immigrants) or slaves as part of their economic systems
3) GAO just did a test that proved that they could sneak in the materials to make TWO nuclear dirty bombs.
4) Americans want their drugs and most of it comes from the south.
There must be a win-win solution.
1 & 2 can be solved by letting illegals in (temorarily) and must be documented so that they can be cycled back out every 2 years (or whatever the duration should be) so that their dream of permantly making defacto facts on the ground can be thwarted… AND we still can let them come here to make good money (compared to what they get in their own countries) and the businesses that need them still gets the labor. This way all illegals can get a chance to work here for a couple years before going back home and letting someone else take their slot for a while.
3 requires an “wall” of some kind…robots ..sensors…something… this will have to be a massive system that leaves no holes…which means the money being spent on NeoCon wars will have to be spent on defense instead…
4 will be killed off by 3, but Americans are not going to give up on their drugs… so they will either have to start making their own which will lead to massive arrests or the War on Drugs will have to be outlawed so that Americans can still have their drugs without having to risk the nightmare that #3 shows is going to happen to us if we do not be careful what is being brought into this country…
March 28th, 2006 at 4:38 pmMore facts to consider when debating illegal immigration issues:
While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year’s surplus – the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration’s projections.(…)
March 28th, 2006 at 4:39 pmStarting in the late 1980’s, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect – sometimes simply fictitious – Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the “earnings suspense file” in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to.
The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990’s, two and a half times the amount of the 1980’s.
In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes. (…)
Mario Avalos, a naturalized Nicaraguan immigrant who prepares income tax returns for many workers in the area, including immigrants without legal papers, observes that many older workers return home to Mexico. “Among my clients,” he said, “I can’t recall anybody over 60 without papers.”
Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
I R I
March 28th, 2006 at 4:39 pmI cant figure out if you are a rascist or are just trying to agrivate the chimps. I hope its the latter.
And the Dems slogan would be “Vote Democrat. We hate whites and Christians and don’t care enough about the US to secure its borders.â€
Comment by troll
The Donks are already known as the party of Treason, Abortion and Sodomy.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:39 pmGood luck with that. At least 60% of the people in this country think like I do and don’t think much of losers like you at all.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
You are far more alone than you wish to admit… 60% are KKK? No I dont think so… your kind lost the civil war remember?
March 28th, 2006 at 4:40 pmSorry “Aggravate”.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:41 pmAnd the Dems slogan would be “Vote Democrat. We hate whites and Christians and don’t care enough about the US to secure its borders.â€
Comment by troll
No it would be the same as our revolutionary founding fathers…
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL
and
DONT TREAD ON ME
Is that so hard to understand? You have NO right to force your ways on us any more than we have the right to force you to stop going to church or force you to attend gay pride events. We do not have this right because ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and because you have the right to warn us DONT TREAD ON ME…. and WE have the same right to demand that you treat ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL… and when you start spouting off your mouths about communism and god haters we have the right to warn you DONT TREAD ON ME!
What is so hard to understand about that? Mind your own business and treat everyone like you want to be treated… all else will fall in line from there.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:44 pmObviously can’t back this one up, so take it for what you will, the news reported about the 36k students protesting the immigration bill in LA. My coworkers sister is highway patrol in LA area, she asked some of the students what they were protesting, they all said they didn’t know, they just say people protesting and went out and joined them.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:47 pmI R I
I cant figure out if you are a rascist or are just trying to agrivate the chimps. I hope its the latter.
Comment by troll
Why it’s neither. I celebrate the differences between the races and always have. I also like to poke fun and point out the obvious to the Utopians and that is all men are not created equally.
It just so happens that I’ve noticed that every country on the planet that is Latin and Roman Catholic is also a third world shithole and I see no reason to go out of our way to import their cultural, spiritual and physical disadvantages in such numbers as to lower the standards that made this country the greatest on earth. We have enough problems as it is with the Left Wing Fucktards and other assorted losers we’ve already got.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:54 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
March 28th, 2006 at 4:55 pmALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL… and when you start spouting off your mouths about communism and god haters we have the right to warn you DONT TREAD ON ME!
What is so hard to understand about that? Mind your own business and treat everyone like you want to be treated… all else will fall in line from there.
Comment by Gerald Gibson —
Hahahaha….leftwingfucktard
March 28th, 2006 at 4:55 pmIt just so happens that I’ve noticed that every country on the planet that is Latin and Roman Catholic is also a third world shithole (…)
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 4:54 pm
Spain, France, and Italy are Latin as well as Roman Catholic.
Say what you will about them, they are not third world countries…
March 28th, 2006 at 4:58 pmHahahaha….leftwingfucktard
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
This is their top notch thinker folks… he shows exactly what the rotten part of America smells like.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:04 pmSpain, France, and Italy are Latin as well as Roman Catholic.
Say what you will about them, they are not third world countries…
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Not third world but they are shitholes. Particularly France and Spain who are soon to be taken over by all their Islamist “guest workers”. HA! By the way…France and Spain exported much of the misery that is common to Africa and S. America. Rich elites, thugs in power and hopelessness for the people. Yep, real superior cultures. USA! USA! USA!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:13 pmHow about DON’T TREAD ON MY BUSINESS or DON’T TREAD ON MY INCOME or DONT READ ON MY RIGHT TO KEEP ISLAMOFASCIST OUT OF MY COUNTRY or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT NOT TO HAVE MY KID INDOCTRINATED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHTS AS A PARENT or DONT TREAD ON MY PROPERTY RIGHTS or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH WHEN I EXPRESS MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN THE WAY I VOTE, ect, ect ?
March 28th, 2006 at 5:14 pmRich elites, thugs in power and hopelessness for the people. Yep, real superior cultures. USA! USA! USA!
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
UH yeah because we don’t have rich elite thugs in charge of the US thank god
/sarcasm
March 28th, 2006 at 5:17 pmThere it is a nutshell, folks. You just can’t tell the difference between them. There is no difference between a right wing fucktard and a fascist or a racist. You been hoodwinked, troll. Dumbass!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:18 pmHow about DON’T TREAD ON MY BUSINESS or DON’T TREAD ON MY INCOME or DONT READ ON MY RIGHT TO KEEP ISLAMOFASCIST OUT OF MY COUNTRY or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT NOT TO HAVE MY KID INDOCTRINATED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHTS AS A PARENT or DONT TREAD ON MY PROPERTY RIGHTS or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH WHEN I EXPRESS MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN THE WAY I VOTE, ect, ect ?
Comment by troll
Good one. I doubt they understood it though. They know better how to take care of you and yours than you do. You’re not smart enough or have the basic skill set to live your life and raise your children without intense interference. But you knew that already.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:18 pm“Not third world but they are shitholes. Particularly France and Spain who are soon to be taken over by all their Islamist “guest workersâ€. MizzWrong”
Ignorance is bliss. You should visit these ’shitholes’ sometime, you might be surprised at how modern, clean, and fantastic they are. They make Houston look like the shit in the shithole by comparison.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:18 pmHOW ABOUT DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHTS TO USE CAPS!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:19 pmShorter troll: ME! ME! ME! ME!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:21 pmThere’s a reason why all these conservatards are just little whiny-assed titty babies…
ME! ME! ME! ME!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:22 pmHow about DON’T TREAD ON MY BUSINESS or DON’T TREAD ON MY INCOME or DONT READ ON MY RIGHT TO KEEP ISLAMOFASCIST OUT OF MY COUNTRY or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT NOT TO HAVE MY KID INDOCTRINATED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHTS AS A PARENT or DONT TREAD ON MY PROPERTY RIGHTS or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH WHEN I EXPRESS MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN THE WAY I VOTE, ect, ect ?
Comment by troll
Strawman, Strawman, Strawman, Strawman, Strawman, Strawman, Strawman
You obviously do not have the grey/white matter in your head to see what I was saying. All those rights you want you can have if you treat people like ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and you DONT TREAD ON ME… but because your kind can not be trusted to not be racist pigs and not to force your religion into the peoples government then we can not trust you with private schools or showing your religion publically in a court house or making money honestly instead of off illegal immigrants or from slavery or from war profiteering… you can not be trusted… you are barbarians and as soon as you grow up and learn to mind your own business and stop letting your ego send you on evil adventures then we can all get along… when exactly can you get those things right?
March 28th, 2006 at 5:22 pmIn case there was any doubt the immigration debate is fueled by racism and xenophobia, I-RIGHT-I and troll have stepped nicely up to the plate and dispelled any notions to the contrary.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:23 pmI’ll respond to troll’s little retarded rant one at a time inlined.
“How about DON’T TREAD ON MY BUSINESS”
You mean like Michael Schiavo experienced?
“or DON’T TREAD ON MY INCOME ”
You mean like the increases in AMT, and national debt that either your income or that of your children will owe?
“or DONT READ ON MY RIGHT TO KEEP ISLAMOFASCIST OUT OF MY COUNTRY ”
You mean like inviting them to run our ports?
“or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT NOT TO HAVE MY KID INDOCTRINATED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ”
You mean like Georgia putting bibles in the schools and indoctrinating children in their preferred religion?
“or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHTS AS A PARENT ”
You mean like taking away children from gay parents?
“or DONT TREAD ON MY PROPERTY RIGHTS ”
You mean like the plans in new orleans to ‘renovate’ the impoverished areas propose doing?
“or DONT TREAD ON MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH WHEN I EXPRESS MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS IN THE WAY I VOTE, ect, ect ? ”
You mean like the case where you wish to restrict the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) of others in the way you vote?
“Comment by troll ”
More like trail of idiocy and hypocrisy by troll.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:25 pmSo you dont have to remember “dont tread on me” just those who disagree with you.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:26 pmThis just in, Kids….
Look out, Faux News. You going down with loofa.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:28 pmStrawman, strawman, strawman.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:29 pm“So you dont have to remember “dont tread on me†just those who disagree with you. Comment by troll ”
Spoken like a true nazi projecting your failures on others.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:29 pmTucker? Tucker?
March 28th, 2006 at 5:30 pmGood-bye! lunatic fringe. Good riddance!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:31 pmIt won’t be long before there will be an image of the Virgin on every other tortilla.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 4:33 pm
Well, if you’ll buy a Jesus on a cheese sandwich for $20K…
March 28th, 2006 at 5:33 pmLunitic fringe is in the eye of the beholder. And conservatives hold the power so gnight Irene.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:34 pmNot third world but they are shitholes.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
Nonsense. There’s a reason they have higher tourism revenues than Houston. A big reason (hint: you :)
March 28th, 2006 at 5:36 pmIn case there was any doubt the immigration debate is fueled by racism and xenophobia, I-RIGHT-I and troll have stepped nicely up to the plate and dispelled any notions to the contrary.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 28, 2006 @ 5:23 pm
You can bet that if it were twenty-one year old Swedish bikini models, they’d be falling all over themselves to defend the girls’ right to stay in America. No doubt about that one…
March 28th, 2006 at 5:40 pmGregor
March 28th, 2006 at 5:42 pmMahammad was a terrorist.
The race card is the trump in the Filthy Left’s hand. They will never stop using it and human nature will never allow the minority to stop believing it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 3:19 pm
By the year 2030, you will be the minority (WASP male). Hope you’re just as thrilled about the notion then as you are now.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:42 pmMore like trail of idiocy and hypocrisy by troll.
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 28, 2006 @ 5:25 pm
Touche’ Ryan!
March 28th, 2006 at 5:44 pmThe link provided has audio & video tapes for sale of illegal&legal aliens some who are elected american government officials, telling of their plans to takeover parts of the United States. It’s quite shocking to show these tapes to the uninformed, these aliens are criminal terrorists. Some people are showing them on local cable access tv stations.
http://www.ccir.net/
March 28th, 2006 at 5:44 pm“You can bet that if it were twenty-one year old Swedish bikini models, they’d be falling all over themselves to defend the girls’ right to stay in America. No doubt about that one… ”
Comment by unbelievable — March 28, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
You know I might and no you may not have their little brother thats nasty.
March 28th, 2006 at 5:45 pmYou know I might and no you may not have their little brother thats nasty.
Comment by troll — March 28, 2006 @ 5:45 pm
Do you know what a comma is?
March 28th, 2006 at 5:56 pmI am sure IRI would like their little brothers
=P
March 28th, 2006 at 5:56 pmThey know better how to take care of you and yours than you do. You’re not smart enough or have the basic skill set to live your life and raise your children without intense interference. But you knew that already.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 5:18
Shorter IRI: “I got mine Jack, and if you’re handicapped or in desperate need of help, Screw you!”
March 28th, 2006 at 5:57 pmGregor
Mahammad was a terrorist.
Comment by troll — March 28, 2006 @ 5:42 pm
As I said before, immigration debate is definitely fueled by prejudice, racism, and xenophobia.
Keep talking troll, you and I-RIGHT-I are making my point quite nicely…
March 28th, 2006 at 5:58 pm“Gregor
Mahammad was a terrorist.
Comment by troll ”
By your definition, so was jesus and george washington. You reichwing nazi bigots are just a treat.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pmDo you know what a comma is?
Comment by unbelievable — March 28, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
He seems to be in a permanent mental coma… is that close enough?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:10 pmPlease gregor they have no respect for any fascists including mohammad.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:14 pmGregor
Mahammad was a terrorist.
Comment by troll
I saw a history channel show the other day showing exactly who “Mahammad” was fighting against…. do you know who? And did you know THEY attacked him not the other way around? Did you know he was driven from Mecca simply because he said there was only one god and that was the god of abraham?
No I didnt think you did. Your ignorance is an embarrassment to all us that must watch you impale yourself on neocon talking point after neo con talking point.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:14 pmGerald I know that mohammad considered his daughter Fatima second only to Mary who is the only woman to have a chapter of the Koran named afre her.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pmGerald I know that mohammad considered his daughter Fatima second only to Mary who is the only woman to have a chapter of the Koran named afre her.
Comment by troll
Ooookkkk… but that is not what I asked and I am not sure what that has to do with anything. I am getting to the FACTS of why Muhammed is or is NOT a facist… after that we will do the same comparison for the neo cons….that ok with you?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:19 pmUH yeah because we don’t have rich elite thugs in charge of the US thank god
/sarcasm
Comment by Krazny
If we did smart guy I’d see to it that you’d be cutting tobacco in Cuba on the farm we liberated from Castro. Humm….that would be sweet.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:19 pmSorry IRI I don’t smoke, but I believe you would like to think of yourself as the rich plantation owner with slaves, at least that is what I get from your last post.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:21 pmDid you know he was driven from Mecca simply because he said there was only one god and that was the god of abraham?
Comment by Gerald Gibson
Wrong, he was driven from Moon God Central for diddling little boys. The pagans frowned on that, no wonder the Muslims don’t.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:22 pmIf we did smart guy I’d see to it that you’d be cutting tobacco in Cuba on the farm we liberated from Castro. Humm….that would be sweet.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
The elites learned that they can not get away with treating people like YOU IRI the way they always did which was to enslave and oppress…. so they then figured that they could TRICK people like YOU IRI because they think you are dumbshits. And so now they are content with a VIRTUAL master slave arrangement. They let you have red neck mansions on loan from china while they continue with the very same aristocrocy they always had.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:23 pmI also know that mohammad was resposible for slaughtering all the men of a vilage he had conquered after they had surrendered.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:23 pmIf we did smart guy I’d see to it that you’d be cutting tobacco in Cuba on the farm we liberated from Castro. Humm….that would be sweet.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 6:19 pm
Uh, hello – we’re the reason Castro is in power… We over threw Noriega – tehir democratically elected leader and helped establish a dictatorship. Or don’t your history books go past 1910?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:24 pmseriously though George Bush is a rich wanker from maine. I know that people like to buy his “southern downhome” schtick, but it doesn’t change the fact that he and every member of his cabinet are wealthy. Couple that with the whole torture thing, and the don’t ask cause we won’t tell but everything is okay attitude.
Yeah I think we are run by a bunch of rich elite thugs.
anyone else have some thoughts on this?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:25 pmWrong, he was driven from Moon God Central for diddling little boys. The pagans frowned on that, no wonder the Muslims don’t.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Real people do something called research… this History Channel did…. this YOU did not. Which do you think an intelligent person is going to go with IRI? Moon God Central as you put it worshiped many gods… this the Muslims did not agree with… but if you promise to go do some reading so you can do a real debate I promise I can show you how Muhammed was a fascist…or at least the same thing as Americas Taliban pseudo fascists.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:27 pmUh, hello – we’re the reason Castro is in power… We over threw Noriega – tehir democratically elected leader and helped establish a dictatorship. Or don’t your history books go past 1910?
Comment by unbelievable
That’s some funny stuff right there.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:27 pmI also know that mohammad was resposible for slaughtering all the men of a vilage he had conquered after they had surrendered.
Comment by troll — March 28, 2006 @ 6:23 pm
dude have you read any of the history of the crusades? There are stories of cities with streets running knee deep in blood. I would suggest before you start pointing the finger at what a bad guy Mohammand was you might want to do a little history research into christianity.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:28 pmI think the immigration debate says a lot about how people deal, or do not, with difficult decisions. From the Talmud ” If you have a mouse it’s the hole’s fault.”
March 28th, 2006 at 6:28 pmanyone else have some thoughts on this?
Comment by Krazny — March 28, 2006 @ 6:25 pm
Be careful what you wish for – IRI got out of the yard again and is pooping on our lawn.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:29 pmGerald I know a great deal about Islam. Mohammad was a terrorist.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:29 pmMuhammed was a fascist…or at least the same thing as Americas Taliban pseudo fascists.
Comment by Gerald Gibson
Franco was a fascist. Moohamit was a demon possessed pedophile headchopper.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:30 pmActually there was a belief in a moon god, that is where the crescent symbol used in Islam came from. I don’t know the bit about buggering little boys, but I am sure that IRI would like to join if that is the case.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:30 pmUh, hello – we’re the reason Castro is in power… We over threw Noriega – tehir democratically elected leader and helped establish a dictatorship. Or don’t your history books go past 1910?
Comment by unbelievable
They do not go past 100 AD
also know that mohammad was resposible for slaughtering all the men of a vilage he had conquered after they had surrendered.
Comment by troll
Actually Mecca surrendered and Muhammed gave them all amnesty.
The crusaders from the christian lands slaughtered every living being in Jerusalem after they surrendered…even the jews and the christians that lived there… THAT is what you guys call conservative compassion…
March 28th, 2006 at 6:31 pmJesus never killed a soul.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:31 pmBe careful what you wish for – IRI got out of the yard again and is pooping on our lawn.
Comment by unbelievable
Crapping all over the threads of the monumentally ignorant is one of my specialties.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:31 pm“I also know that mohammad was resposible for slaughtering all the men of a vilage he had conquered after they had surrendered. Comment by troll ”
Which village was that again?
And I think you were thinking of the Christians, they were the ones with the reputation for slaughtering villages, especially those that wouldn’t convert to Christianity.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:32 pm“Crapping all over the threads of the monumentally ignorant is one of my specialties. Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
I didn’t know you posted on the free republic. Makes sense, crapping on your fellow Nazis is a specialty of ‘your kind’ isn’t it?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:33 pmOh okay, I-RIGHT-I, yougot me – your history books actually go up to to 1915. Here’s a history lesson from a ‘girl’, courtesy Wikipedia
Manuel Antonio Noriega Moreno (born February 11, 1938) was a Panamanian general and the de facto military leader of Panama from 1983 to 1989. He was initially a strong ally of the United States, and also worked for the CIA from the late 1950s to 1986. By the late 1980s relations had turned extremely tense between Noriega and the United States government, and in 1989 the general was overthrown and captured by a U.S. invading force in Operation Just Cause. He was taken to the United States, tried for drug trafficking, and imprisoned in 1992. He remains imprisoned in a federal prison in Miami, Florida, where his daughters and his grandchildren frequently visit. On December 4, 2004, he was moved to an undisclosed Miami hospital after suffering a very minor stroke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega
March 28th, 2006 at 6:34 pmGerald I know a great deal about Islam. Mohammad was a terrorist.
Comment by troll
THEN BACK IT UP… do you not feel stupid saying stuff like that without backing it up? Why do you think I provide referances for all my assertions…and links…and facts… I would feel STUPID acting like you do….why do you not feel stupid? You cant back it up yet you do not feel stupid? Is that like a red neck bar fight? You look totally stupid and in the end no one gets their ass handed to them…you just make yourself look dumb…christ how pathetic you are.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:34 pmJesus never killed a soul.
Comment by troll
He did but He wasn’t going by the name Jesus at the time. And he will again and this is His name:
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:36 pmRev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Jesus never killed a soul.
Comment by troll
You do not believe in jesus…you worship the false idol in some white guys image.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:36 pmGerald,
The troll IS stupid, and stupid people (much like bush) often think they’re smarter than they actually are. That’s why they cling to the ‘liberal elite’ cliche. It’s really reichwing for ‘that educated liberal made me feel stupid’ – hence the ‘elite’ part.
Come on troll, which village again did mohammad kill everyone in? And was it anything like mai lai in Vietnam?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:38 pmI-RIGHT-I… On Castro’s assistance from our government….
The mysterious William Wieland (aka (Guillermo) Montenegro, Wilheim Wieland) protégé of Sumner Welles from the time of Fulgencio Batista’s first rise to power in 1933. Wieland was present (US consul) during the Bogotazo while it is said by some to be in contact with Castro. Wieland was a highly influential U.S. State Department Official, variously and conflictingly described as a Communist [10], and as a CIA agent who appears to have aided Castro during the U.S. Arms Embargo Against Batista (1958)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_castro
March 28th, 2006 at 6:38 pmRev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Revelations was written about 100 years after Jesus died. It has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with Roman rule.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:39 pm“Jesus never killed a soul.
Comment by troll ”
Neither did many of the ‘terrorists’ locked in Gitmo. But the romans convicted him of sedition, treason and the roman equivalent of terrorism and inciting others to violence. Osama never killed anyone that we know of either, but you claim he was a terrorist – right? The romans charged Jesus with the ‘terrorism’ that was going on, just as you charge Osama – and Judas even ‘confessed’ to the guilt of Jesus.
You may not like it, but from a historical perspective Jesus was seen as a terrorist. His followers even believed he was going to lead a rebellion. Sound familiar?
March 28th, 2006 at 6:41 pmIs this the same Revelations that has NUMEROUS manuscript copies, no two of which are the same? Hehehe, yeah, literal my ass. Besides, what kind of moron believes they’re worshiping a monotheist religion that has a Father and Son, a Devil, a set of angels and demons and even ‘ghosts like mary’ all with special powers? That’s just retarded.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:42 pmRevelations was written about 100 years after Jesus died. It has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with Roman rule.
Comment by Gerald Gibson
Just keep telling yourself that.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:43 pmYou do not believe in jesus…you worship the false idol in some white guys image.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — March 28, 2006 @ 6:36 pm
Gerald… shhhh… he doesn’t know that Jesus was a, what’s he call them – oh yeah, middle eastern ‘raghead’ joo…
(Don’t tell him about Santa Claus either…)
March 28th, 2006 at 6:43 pmJust keep telling yourself that.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
I do not have to… I can look it up… So can you, but you wont. Ignorance is pathetic.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:45 pmI also know that mohammad was resposible for slaughtering all the men of a vilage he had conquered after they had surrendered.
Comment by troll — March 28, 2006 @ 6:23 pm
Here we have a Bush cult follower who, like many of his fellow cultists, is bent on unleashing horror, death, and misery on a nation of 25million souls, women and children be damned, trying very hard (by making up facts and allegations) to smear an entire religion because its founder was a warrior and he made no excuses about it.
What’s the Iraqi civilian body count again? Oh, that’s right… troll does not care for Iraqis, and would have the insurgents tortured and executed even if they surrendered.
The height of irony, I say.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:45 pmI would kind of like the rapture to happen, then maybe we can live peacefully with out the idiots like IRI sticking his nose in my business.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:46 pmThe romans charged Jesus with the ‘terrorism’ that was going on, just as you charge Osama – and Judas even ‘confessed’ to the guilt of Jesus.
You may not like it, but from a historical perspective Jesus was seen as a terrorist. His followers even believed he was going to lead a rebellion. Sound familiar?
Comment by Ryan Neat
More of the “knowledge” you gained in your visit to the Scientologist seminary? I like the way you compare Jesus and Ossama, that was good. It’s sure to get you a few points with the infidel.org crowd around here.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:46 pmYou may not like it, but from a historical perspective Jesus was seen as a terrorist. His followers even believed he was going to lead a rebellion. Sound familiar?
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 28, 2006 @ 6:41 pm
Of course not. His brain ain’t wired that way… doesn’t ‘receive’ or ‘apply logic’, just repeats propaganda and reicht wing talking points.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:46 pmI would kind of like the rapture to happen, then maybe we can live peacefully with out the idiots like IRI sticking his nose in my business.
Comment by Krazny
Ya from what I learned in church as I was growing up once the rapture happens we get 1000 years of peace!!! BRING IT ON!
March 28th, 2006 at 6:47 pmI would kind of like the rapture to happen, then maybe we can live peacefully with out the idiots like IRI sticking his nose in my business.
Comment by Krazny
It’ll be just your luck I’ll be flying the plane you’re on when it happens.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIt’ll be just your luck I’ll be flying the plane you’re on when it happens.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
I think IRI is a terrorist
March 28th, 2006 at 6:48 pmYa from what I learned in church as I was growing up once the rapture happens we get 1000 years of peace!!! BRING IT ON!
Comment by Gerald Gibson
You get three and one half years of hell first. I doubt you’ll survive it.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:49 pmYou get three and one half years of hell first. I doubt you’ll survive it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
I think we are right in the middle of it now are we not? I will wait a little longer…
March 28th, 2006 at 6:50 pmIt’ll be just your luck I’ll be flying the plane you’re on when it happens.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006
dude no one is letting you out of the psych ward to drive a tricycle let alone anything more complicated.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:50 pmDemocrat Soldier – Reference your comment #125, in which you decided to highlight the fact that my website links to the Aryan Alternative, the official tabloid of the Vanguard News Network, a white nationalist communications hub dedicated to exposing, confronting, and combatting all forms of political discrimination against whites.
What you failed to mention is that my website also links to two local T.V. stations, the Anchorage Daily News, a local lawmaker (Allan Tesche) who is a hard lefty Democrat, several non-racist conservative organizations like the Council of Conservative Citizens, and three local candidates for elective office, none of who are white nationalists.
The problems with mass immigration in general and illegal immigration in particular affect all American citizens, regardless of political persuasion or race.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:51 pmYou get three and one half years of hell first. I doubt you’ll survive it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 6:49 pm
I think talking with you for 2 hours counts for reciprocity…
March 28th, 2006 at 6:51 pmAnchorage Activist,
several of the links on your site lead to “white nationalist” websites. IRI should take a look he would approve. You can call them whatever you like, but there still racist skinheads, or other aryan nations groups. Changing the name does not change what they represent.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:54 pmI do not have to… I can look it up… So can you, but you wont. Ignorance is pathetic.
Comment by Gerald Gibson
Look it up? Where? Some liberal theological tome? I know where that comes from and it doesn’t fit the plan or the profile of scripture. But go ahead and spiritualize it away and ignore it. You’ll sleep better not knowing.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:55 pmIRI you might especially like the real history of martin luther king link off of Anchorage Activists site.
March 28th, 2006 at 6:57 pmAnchorage Activist,
several of the links on your site lead to “white nationalist†websites. IRI should take a look he would approve. You can call them whatever you like, but there still racist skinheads, or other aryan nations groups. Changing the name does not change what they represent.
Comment by Krazny
I’m no fan of slack jawed toothless white power goof balls but at least they are not trying to give the country away to the Transnational Progressives. Changing the name of Ratbastardcommiemofos to Progressives isn’t fooling anyone either.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:00 pmLook it up? Where? Some liberal theological tome? I know where that comes from and it doesn’t fit the plan or the profile of scripture. But go ahead and spiritualize it away and ignore it. You’ll sleep better not knowing.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Its called history… you know …those thousands of years of human activity long before there was a religion called “christianity” created by romans in ROME.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:02 pmI’m no fan of slack jawed toothless white power goof balls
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
You DO know that is exactly what you are do you not?
March 28th, 2006 at 7:03 pmI’m no fan of slack jawed toothless white power goof balls
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 7:00 pm
funny cause that is how I have always pictured you IRI, bent over the keyboard in your hospital gown, babbling incoherently, rocking back and forth.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:04 pmSorry I was busy feeding the kids and its bedtime so here is a site http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/torture.htm
March 28th, 2006 at 7:04 pmEnjoy
Look it up? Where? Some liberal theological tome? I know where that comes from and it doesn’t fit the plan or the profile of scripture. But go ahead and spiritualize it away and ignore it. You’ll sleep better not knowing.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
I have no further comment… you just condemed yourself. For everyone on the Internet now and for everyone that uses a search engine in the future… why do you not put your REAL name on your posts like I do?
March 28th, 2006 at 7:05 pmI think I’ll eat a little Mexican tonight in honor of MecHa or LaRaza or whatever those Mexican losers are calling themselves this week.
If you don’t see me tomorrow you’ll know the rapture came and you were left behind holding the bag. Later.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:05 pmIf you don’t see me tomorrow you’ll know the rapture came and you were left behind holding the bag. Later.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 28, 2006 @ 7:05 pm
I guess free time must be over at the hospital.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:07 pmSorry I was busy feeding the kids and its bedtime so here is a site http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/torture.htm
Enjoy
Comment by troll
Ok that is a good start troll.
Like I said if you did this I would work with you to show evidence that the Muslims were just like the Taliban American Complex (aka evangelicals).
That first part on that page…
5:33 Those who wage war against God and His Messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternate hand and foot or banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the Hereafter . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)
Is refered to as a “law” to be carried out for real. This is true. Almost all of the Quran is a series of laws that changed in nature depending on the times that the followers of Mohammed found themselves in. Mohammed at first preached about laws that made it illegal to worship any god other than the one god of abraham. Later he became politcal as he became the leader of a society of people in Madina (an area a little north and west of Mecca). At that time he started passing on his “messages from god” that were actually rules or laws about every facet of life. Everyone had to be the same. Everyone had to live, think, pray, breath exactly the same. This is religious fundamentalism at its worse. This is unAmerican. This is EXACTLY what many of us have grown up with in the midst of Americas evangelicals. I was going to pull some horrific parts of the bible out to show that the old testament is equally harsh, but it has been done so many times it is cliche now and this is about YOUR ability to research information about Islam.
Do some more research and I will go further.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:13 pmwhy do you not put your REAL name on your posts like I do?
Comment by Gerald Gibson
That’s an easy on Gerald. Because you know that I or anyone from the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy will not find you and stab you in the back, rape your wife and kill your dog just because you’re a Left Wing Loser. I, on the other hand know that on your side are people who would love to do just that and worse still, people who would look me up and scratch obscenities into the paint of my brand new 5000+ lb gas guzzling 4X4 pickemup truck. Then I’d have to kill somebody and Jesus would be supremely pissed at me. I can’t afford to have Him pissed therefore you may only address me as I-RIGHT-I or Sir. Now really, I’ve got to go and get some chow.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:13 pmThat’s a laugh and a half. You are the punk who is always on here threatening people and talking about the “sniper rifle” in the back windo of your piece of shit truck.
Nice projection retard.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:16 pmThat’s an easy on Gerald. Because you know that I or anyone from the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy will not find you and stab you in the back, rape your wife and kill your dog just because you’re a Left Wing Loser. I, on the other hand know that on your side are people who would love to do just that and worse still, people who would look me up and scratch obscenities into the paint of my brand new 5000+ lb gas guzzling 4X4 pickemup truck. Then I’d have to kill somebody and Jesus would be supremely pissed at me. I can’t afford to have Him pissed therefore you may only address me as I-RIGHT-I or Sir. Now really, I’ve got to go and get some chow.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I —
Coward.
IRI is a coward… he is afraid of (limp wristed flower power hippies!) hahahaha… oh boy that is rich.
IRI… seriously right now many of us would like to kick the crap out of you and many more like you. However we do not believe America was made for that type of crap… hell the civil war itself should never have happened. But it is because of the very real life suffering that your kind has commited against your fellow humans that people like us must always get pushed ever closer to becoming what we despise most….YOU.
However I see at least a couple more years before we get to that point… so for now …post your name… or are you afraid of everyone now and in the future nowing you as the Saudi Arabian Benedict Arnold that you are?
March 28th, 2006 at 7:19 pm“More of the “knowledge†you gained in your visit to the Scientologist seminary? I like the way you compare Jesus and Ossama, that was good. It’s sure to get you a few points with the infidel.org crowd around here. Comment by I-RIGHT-I”
Truth hurts, doesn’t it? And I don’t need an e-meter to figure out what kind of a ‘hypocrite’ you are, that’s self evident. I’m a Hindu dimwit, or are you a NEW I-RIGHT-I, replacing the previous ‘troll’? The fact you haven’t made any of your ‘hindu’ jokes in recent weeks pretty much proves that you’re a ‘new’ troll, not to mention that you writing is even more DULL and DEFICIENT than your predecessor. You seem like you’re just going through the racist motions these days McBigot.
And hey, Jesus was ‘crucified’ for acts of sedition and terrorism – it’s not my fault, your favorite book lays out the history. And one of his own buddies ratted him out – the buddy must have been a lot like you.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:37 pm” I can’t afford to have Him pissed therefore you may only address me as I-RIGHT-I or Sir. Now really, I’ve got to go and get some chow. Comment by I-RIGHT-I ”
But according to Jesus you’re already going to hell over your divorce and dating. That’s a straight trip to the hotland afterlife – so why bother behaving. You’re already doomed.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:41 pmJohn #l4
I agree with every word you wrote. I too am a democrat but I don’t believe in letting these people come to the front of the line. If big business would pay americans a fair wage we would not have undocumented workers at the rate we do now. Corporations should be fined and fined good for hiring undocumented workers.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:42 pmRainman
March 28th, 2006 at 7:45 pmI knew you were a dimwit I did not know you were a Hindu dimwit thanks for the info.
Boy this thread has generated a lot of debate > lol. Since the Bush clan wants the entire population of Mexico to cross our border, then the entire Bush family must be deported to Mexico, and never allowed to return either!
March 28th, 2006 at 7:50 pmI think I’ll eat a little Mexican tonight in honor of MecHa or LaRaza or whatever those Mexican losers are calling themselves this week.
If you don’t see me tomorrow you’ll know the rapture came and you were left behind holding the bag. Later.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
More likely Montezuma’s revenge than the rapture and it’s you left holding the bag with you poop-stained speedos.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:25 pm“Rainman I knew you were a dimwit I did not know you were a Hindu dimwit thanks for the info. Comment by troll ”
A hindu dimwit is an oxymoron, as the nature of Hinduism is ‘enLIGHTenment’. But I wouldn’t expect a DIMwit like yourself to get it. Don’t blame me if my religion encompassed the big bang, nature of time, parallel universes and quantum/string theory in its creation myth. And it did all of it without ever doing rib surgery or planetary scale flooding that never happened.
By the way, I formally studied Judaism and Christianity as part of my studies, so I bet I know more about your religion than you do about mine – DumDum.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:34 pmIn answer to the question “what village” its name was QURAYZA here are the grusome details of the slaughter perpetrated by the hands of the “peaceful” Muhammad.
” Eventually, the Jews could not hold out and they surrendered. Muhammad picked out one of his men to judge their fate: Sa’d Muadh. Sa’d said that the adult males (any teenage boy who had started puberty, i.e. growing of facial hair, etc.) were to be beheaded, and, the woman and children enslaved. Thus Muhammad massacred 800 prisoners of war and enslaved their women and children.”
” Muhammad massacred 800 men not for making war upon him, not for aiding his enemies, but only because they were a threat to his further aims. They had rejected Muhammad and Islam, and they would not follow him as a prophet. Consequently, they would have to be removed. At this point in time, there were no more pagan leaders to plead for these Jews (as Ubayy had done for the Qaynuqa). There were no more Jewish tribes or allies nearby to lend them a hand, (they had all been expelled). Now Muhammad was free to do what he intended to do long ago: massacre those who had threatened him and refused to become Muslims.”
From http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/jihad.htm
March 28th, 2006 at 8:35 pmThis passage refers to the jizyah a tax that Jews and Christians had to pay for the right to not be muslim. It was a temporary truce to buy mohammad time to subjegate the disunified Arab tribes. Then he turned his wrath upon the Jews.
PASSAGE 6: SURA 9:29
9:29 “Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”
March 28th, 2006 at 8:39 pmTroll,
You forgot all of the RELEVANT parts of this story, as usual.
So this village – one might call it a ‘terrorist’ band – attacked Mohammad, and tried to destroy him, TWICE. And the second time they were given the choice of a death sentence or conversion to the new religion. That sounds more fair that how Gitmo treats its prisoners. The ‘death sentence’ appears to be the only option you guys want to give these folks.
You paint a dreary bleak picture, but leave out the most relevant information that puts the entire thing in context – you’re clearly a republican. I noticed your ‘enlightened’ site had all of the relevant information missing from it. Not surprising, you reichwing types can never deal with the whole truth – too messy and ‘intellectual’ for a retard like yourself.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:47 pmNow before I post a follow up …mayb not till tomarrow ..I got work to do tonight…. think about what a progressives response will be…. and not an IRI guess either…. What do you think someone would use to counter what you just posted about Islam?
1) Verses from Quran that are about peace and not killing outsiders?
March 28th, 2006 at 8:47 pm2) Verses from Bible that are equally bad?
3) Info about christian slaughters during the crusades?
4) Qoutes from modern day people like Pat Robertson or Ann Coulter?
5) Qoutes from Hitler, Inc. about their christianity during their speaches?
6) Qoutes from priests in Europe during the dark ages?
7) Info about christian slaughters against pagans in Europe?
Now before I post a follow up …mayb not till tomarrow ..I got work to do tonight…. think about what a progressives response will be…. and not an IRI guess either…. What do you think someone would use to counter what you just posted about Islam?
1) Verses from Quran that are about peace and not killing outsiders?
2) Verses from Bible that are equally bad?
3) Info about christian slaughters during the crusades?
4) Qoutes from modern day people like Pat Robertson or Ann Coulter?
5) Qoutes from Hitler, Inc. about their christianity during their speaches?
6) Qoutes from priests in Europe during the dark ages?
7) Info about christian slaughters against pagans in Europe?
etc.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:48 pmthe Vanguard News Network, a white nationalist communications hub dedicated to exposing, confronting, and combatting all forms of political discrimination against whites.
Comment by Anchorage Activist — March 28, 2006 @ 6:51 pm
Right, those poor, poor, WASPS -always prosecuted, sold into slavery first, then relegated to their ghettos, made to sit at the back of the bus, drink from separate water fountains, and denied the right to vote. Poor WASPS, see them toiling under the sun on the fields, picking the produce and making meager wages. It’s no wonder they are at the bottom of economic and educational indicators… they need soo much help from the rampant discrimination against them…
/sarcasm off
What you failed to mention is that my website also links to (…) several non-racist conservative organizations like the Council of Conservative Citizens, and three local candidates for elective office, none of who are white nationalists.
The Council of Conservative Citizens is also a racist organisation. From the Wikipedia:
The CofCC considers itself a traditional Conservative group opposing Liberals and Neoconservatives and they also seek to promote some of the ideals of the Confederate States of America. Its specific issues include states rights, race relations, White separatism, and conservative Protestant Christianity.(…)
March 28th, 2006 at 8:48 pmThe CofCC was founded in 1988 in Atlanta, Georgia and is now headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri. The CofCC was formed by various leaders of the old White Citizens’ Council, which was a network of racist organizations in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. Gordon Lee Baum is the current national leader.
Council of Conservative Citizens
You need better sources, may I suggest this one instead?
It has the COMPLETE story, instead of the propagandized version you linked from. And it was the “Jews” that attacked Mohammad from Qurayza, breaking their peace treaty for a SECOND TIME.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:49 pmAnd troll, this is one of my favorite parts. It was written by HISTORIANS, though, so you might not be used to its intellectual and factually based assessment of the situation. I know you prefer to ‘hate’ muslims, than to actually get a historical context. But if you want to go back further, why don’t we look at the Talmud, where Moses tells the Jews to kill all of the men of villages in Israel as part of their ‘conquest’ strategy. Maybe Mohammad was just following Judaism/Christianity after all – huh?
Troll, I warn you, don’t tangle with me on religion. I know more, I’m formally schooled in several religions, and I’ll beat you down like that flathead you are. But if you must, go ahead, have at it MORON.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:55 pmGerald Gibson,
You forgot:
8) The Spanish Inquisition (No one expects the Spanish Inquisistion!!!)
9) Salem Witch Trials
10) Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez
11) The goofy kids that just burnt down 9 churches “as a joke”
12) Southern Baptists blowing up abortion centers
etc.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:57 pmRyan,
Don’t forget Christian Cusaders canabalizing their Muslim victims during the Siege of Antioch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Antioch
March 28th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
Spudge,
There are a couple of other BIGIES.
13) Persecution of Catholics by Protestants and vice Versa during the Reformation
14) Hitler and his Evangelical based purging of ‘lefties’, ‘gays’ and ‘jews’.
15) The wanton potato famine deaths of a million Irish because they were ‘poor and catholic’ and not ‘english and protestant’
There’s lots more, but that kind of history will never change the mind of whacko idiot like ‘troll’. Those kind of morons never learn.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:06 pmGerald non of these approaches would address the context in which these were submitted. It really was a conversation which Evil ran from on another thread. If you wish to compare apples to apples then compare Jesus to mahammad as they were the founders of their respective faiths.
Ryan your source again supported my position that mahammad was a terrorist.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:07 pmRainman
March 28th, 2006 at 9:08 pmYou may well lose that bet. You know little about me. I respect the Hindu faith and spirituality. Big bounce is the newest theory welcome by many Christian denominations as well. While Hiduism and Christianity are both paths to enlightenment its followers as is obvious are not allways enlightened. You are admittedly a Hindu dimwit and autistic savant. Your own words Rainman not mine.
gnight.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:20 pm“Ryan your source again supported my position that mahammad was a terrorist.
Comment by troll”
Not at all, it proves the opposite. But then again, considering how you were STUPID enough to post from a propaganda anti-muslim website, I’m not surprised you’re too retarded to comprehend basic english.
And according to your ‘basis’, you qualify as a terrorist for your stance on gitmo. So sorry, your ‘terrorism’ arguments are pretty bogus. You can say Mohammad was harsh to those that betrayed and attacked him, but the term ‘terrorist’ is just stupid – like you.
“You are admittedly a Hindu dimwit and autistic savant. Your own words Rainman not mine. Comment by troll ”
Actually those were YOUR words, but then again, your retention and comprehension have already proven to be ‘lacking’. This little idiocy is no different.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:22 pm“Rainman You may well lose that bet. You know little about me. I respect the Hindu faith and spirituality. troll”
Considering the propaganda website you consider ‘authoritative’ on muslim values, I’m not exactly scared – MORON.
Your claim:
“I also know that mohammad was resposible for slaughtering all the men of a vilage he had conquered after they had surrendered. Comment by troll â€
This is a blatant lie. He didn’t ‘attack’ or ‘conquer’ this village, this was an army that attacked him, and did so after TWICE breaking their peace treaty. In modern terms, this is similar to the death penalty that Nuremburg Nazis, or the US proposes to do to those who attacked us. In fact he’s not handling this as a ‘conquering’, but as if the villagers were terrorists.
I know you’re too STUPID to see this basic concept, no surprise, but you’re wrong, I proved you wrong, and if this is the best you can do talking religion – you need more study and less attitude. Because so far you look REALLY STUPID. After all, what kind of IDIOT thinks calling someone an IDIOT SAVANT is an insult? That ‘attack’ is as retarded as you are.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:28 pm“I’m a Hindu dimwit,…”
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 28, 2006 @ 7:37 pm
March 28th, 2006 at 9:37 pm“And by the way troll, rainman was a ’savant’ – another way of saying ‘genius’ in the particular gift he has. Thanks for the compliment,…”
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 27, 2006 @ 2:12 am
Rainman was autistic savant its not the same as savant. But you’re welcome.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:56 pmOnly in the film. The real Rain man is not autistic. You are retarded, however.
Kim Peek (born November 11, 1951) is a savant with a photographic or eidetic memory and developmental disabilities, resulting from congenital brain abnormalities. He was the inspiration for the character of Raymond Babbit, played by Dustin Hoffman, in the movie Rain Man.
Kim Peek was born with macrocephaly, damage to the cerebellum, and, most importantly, agenesis of the corpus callosum, a condition in which the bundle of nerves that connects the two hemispheres of the brain is missing; in Peek’s case, secondary connectors such as the anterior commissure are also missing.
Fran and Kim Peek, courtesy Darold A. Treffert, M.D., and Wisconsin Medical Society.According to Peek’s father, Fran, Peek was able to memorize things from the age of 16-20 months. He read books, memorized them and then placed them upside down on the shelf to show that he had finished reading them, a practice he still maintains. He reads a page of text in about 10 seconds and, apparently, remembers everything he has read, memorizing vast amounts of information in subjects ranging from history and literature, geography and numbers, to sports, music and dates. He can recall some 9,600 books from memory. Peek can also do formidable calculations in his head, a skill that serves him well in his day job, where he prepares payroll worksheets. He has worked at a day workshop for adults with disabilities since 1969.
Peek did not walk until the age of four and still walks in a sidelong manner. He cannot button up his shirt and has difficulty with other ordinary motor skills, presumably due to damage to the cerebellum, a part of the brain that helps the development of coordination. In psychological testing, Peek has scored below average on general IQ tests; however he has scored very high in some subtests. The mixed results have led to the conclusion that such tests are not an adequate yardstick to measure Peek’s abilities. He has an outgoing personality and is not autistic. (See also, autistic savants.)
March 28th, 2006 at 10:43 pmCONTINUED
Unlike many savants, Peek has showed increasing social skills, perhaps due to the attention he has received as the “real Rain Man”. Also, he has developed well beyond the stage of being a mere repository of vast amounts of information; his skills at associating information he remembers are at least one of the signs of creativity. (He still displays difficulty with abstractions such as interpreting the meanings of proverbs or metaphorical turns of speech.) Although never a musical prodigy, Peek’s musical abilities as an adult are receiving more notice now that he has started to study the piano. He apparently remembers music he heard decades ago and can play it on the piano, to the extent permitted by his limited physical dexterity. He is able to give running spoken commentary on the music as he plays, comparing a piece of music, for example, to other music he has heard. In listening to recordings he can distinguish which instruments play which part and is adept at guessing the composers of new music by comparing the music to the many thousands of music samples in his memory.
In 1984, script writer Barry Morrow met Peek in Arlington, Texas; the result of the meeting was the 1988 movie Rain Man. The character of Raymond Babbit, although inspired by Peek, was portrayed as having autism. Dustin Hoffman, who played Babbit, met Peek and other savants to get an understanding of their nature and to play the role with accuracy. The movie caused a number of requests for appearances, which has increased Peek’s self-confidence. He enjoys approaching strangers and showing them his talent for calendar calculations by telling them day of the week they were born on. Peek has also appeared on television. He travels with his father, who takes care of him, and performs many motor tasks that Peek finds difficult.
In 2004, NASA scientists submitted Peek to a series of tests including computerized tomography and magnetic resonance imaging. The intent was to create a three-dimensional view of his brain structure and to compare the images to MRI scans done in 1988. These are the first tentative approaches in using new and non-invasive technology to discover just how a person with an “abnormal brain” can do the things that he does.
In the UK a documentary was aired on Channel 5 on 27th February 2006, as part of their Extraordinary People TV series, subtitled The Real Rain Man.
Kim also made a short appearance on Medical Incredible, a DHC show, and on Discovery Channel where he met with another savant, Daniel Tammet, and he gave a short interview.
March 28th, 2006 at 10:48 pmthe solution is simple . tell all the american aristocrats that they can no longer vacation in mexico…sanctions on mexico…signed a rat bastard commie
March 28th, 2006 at 11:05 pmWhile not all conservatives are bigots, the fact is that bigotry and conservatism are inextricably intertwined. At the root of RW religious conservatism is a belief that one culture and one race is superior to others. So while the conservatives may try to code their hate and bigotry as something else, it’s still hate and bigotry.
March 28th, 2006 at 11:06 pm[...] more:/2006/03/28/immigration-poll/ Posted by admin Filed in Immigration [...]
March 29th, 2006 at 12:56 amPlaying the race card is a time honored tradition in this county; as in when all else fails. The American people as a whole IMHO are focusing in on the economic and security issues raised by letting 20 million illegal aliens roam our countryside. They all are at this moment under US laws criminals. All most people are saying is that they be deported. Anyone wanting to immigrate can do so legally using proper channels.
March 29th, 2006 at 5:36 amAnd the notion that granting blanket immunity and citizenship to millions is good for
America is just plain crazy.
Rainman,
There you got it right. Good job! I knew you could do it. Vishnu must be pissed at you cause you really got your ass handed to you. You have become a victim of what the Upanishads refer to as KARMA, You show little to no mercy for the slightest error to others and Vishnu let you have it.
You certainly do not seem dispassionate or disassociated as the atman who hopes to achieve moksha is expected to be.
March 29th, 2006 at 8:28 amWell troll from looking at last nights posts it looks like the others answered you for me quite well. Most of the bloodshed you see about Muhammed was in self defense… though not all.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:05 amTroll, I warn you, don’t tangle with me on religion. I know more, I’m formally schooled in several religions, and I’ll beat you down like that flathead you are. But if you must, go ahead, have at it MORON.
Comment by Ryan Neat
You’re absolutely clueless and impossible to relate to on any religious subject. You have zero “formal” religious education and from the way you try and string words together very little education at all. Add to that the fact that you call yourself a Hindu (no one with any sense of themselves or concept of the infinite converts to Hinduism) and what we have is a Jr. High schooler just out of puberty with a serious personality disorder. Or..you could simply be one of those hateful homosexual flamers we see on the news protesting the Boy Scouts.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:08 amHe might be right about knowing more about Christianity than I know about Hinduism, 100,000 gods are hard to keep up with and unlike him I have a life.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:22 amHinduism is not exactly a unified set of beliefs and teachings and like a greased pig Hinduism is tough to nail down.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:25 amWhat is your experience with Hinduism or any other religion for that matter Troll?
March 29th, 2006 at 11:22 amPlease avoid lumping legal immigrants in with illegal immigrants. A legal immigrant has gone through a long, expensive ($3,000 in fees) and arduous process to come here. It’s absolutely unfair to the legal immigrants to put them in the same pot as illegals. And not all immigrants are from Mexico. There are many from other countries with people of color who go through the complex legal labyrinth to get here. So please avoid calling people who support legal immigrants “racists”. Name-calling is silly. Try instead to conduct a rational, serious debate.
March 29th, 2006 at 11:57 amHe might be right about knowing more about Christianity than I know about Hinduism, 100,000 gods are hard to keep up with and unlike him I have a life.
Comment by troll
Ryan “FMFB” Neat knows nothing other than what he cuts and pastes from infidel.org. He’s a Hindu? That’s a laugh, he’s a left wing fucktard with a bad attitude and a worse haircut. When he talks about “enlightenment” what he’s really saying is that he likes to get lit. Rumor has it he’s a homosexual that occasionally swings both ways. In other words he’s one of the sexual degenerates responsible for spreading GAIDS into the heterosexual community. It’s immoral perv’s like Ryan that have caused me to swear off liberal women. It’s a shame too because they really are the easiest.
A little wine, a little Kahlil Gibran and a reminder that a BJ isn’t really sex according to Bill Clinton and you have the makings for a pretty good evening when there’s nothing to watch on TV. I mean really, Liberal women are a national treasure. Just lookit what Sharon Stone tells all the girls….
Young people talk to me about what to do if they’re being pressed for sex? I tell them (what I believe): oral sex is a hundred times safer than vaginal or anal sex. “If you’re in a situation where you cannot get out of sex, offer a blow job. I’m not embarrassed to tell them.”
~ Sharon Stone 3.26.06
How good is that!? Leave it to Ryan “I’m not a homo, really!” Neat to screw it up for the rest of us.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:00 pm“… though not all.”
Comment by Gerald Gibson — March 29, 2006 @ 9:05 am
That was the point Gerald.
Mahammad did not preach peace and tolerance to all as most Muslims would like for us to believe. All the great world religions do truly teach peace even if their adherents do not practice it. Islam does not teach peace for all people but for all “believers”. Anyone other than a believer is an infidel whoes life is worth less than a dogs. Until the rest of the world opens its eyes to this fact and addresses it we are all in great danger.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:32 pmIt’s immoral perv’s like Ryan that have caused me to swear off liberal women. It’s a shame too because they really are the easiest.
A little wine, a little Kahlil Gibran and a reminder that a BJ isn’t really sex according to Bill Clinton and you have the makings for a pretty good evening when there’s nothing to watch on TV. I mean really, Liberal women are a national treasure.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 29, 2006 @ 12:00 pm
Asshole
March 29th, 2006 at 1:19 pmAsshole
Comment by unbelievable
;-) Sometimes I crack myself up.
March 29th, 2006 at 1:42 pm;-) Sometimes I crack myself up.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 29, 2006 @ 1:42 pm
I hope it was worth it.
March 29th, 2006 at 1:54 pmA suggestion for “balance”. The Republicans who support an “illegal immigrant roundup & return” bill, should also support a law, requiring all U.S. corporations who register their companies offshore, to avoid paying income taxes, to actually physically locate their corporate offices in the country they are registered in. In other words, if they are going to dodge U.S. taxes, they cannot “operate” in the U.S. And the companies that “outsource” their jobs to other countries should be required to pay “import taxes” on the items that they want to bring into the country. They used to have a law that did that, but Republicans did away with it. And while we’re at itn no more subsidies for corporations. It costs money to do business. Plain and simple. Sole proprietors, and small business owners don’t get billion dollar handouts from the government, why should Big Oil and AgriBusiness be so lucky? It’s only fair.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:00 pmMahammad did not preach peace and tolerance to all as most Muslims would like for us to believe. All the great world religions do truly teach peace even if their adherents do not practice it. Islam does not teach peace for all people but for all “believersâ€. Anyone other than a believer is an infidel whoes life is worth less than a dogs. Until the rest of the world opens its eyes to this fact and addresses it we are all in great danger.
Comment by troll
What great danger? Christianity ran that way for 2000 years and it didnt destroy the world… it horribly ruined the lives of many people that had to live in those countries, but it didnt lead to the world being in great danger. People that have to live in countries that have no seperation of church and state (either on paper or defacto) are the ones in great danger. What we should be doing is trying to help those people, by showing them how to seperate religious power and government power… right now America is not setting a good example for this … let alone spreading that message to the middle east.
All the great world religions do truly teach peace even if their adherents do not practice it.
This is false. The old testament is just as bad about violence as is the Quran. The isrealites literally commited genocide against the people that lived in the land that Moses had led his people to… that is only one example. There are many more. I guess you could say that Buddhism/Zen is a peaceful religion, but not any religions further west than that.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:13 pmI-RIGHT-I and troll, unless you’re both 100 percent native american, neither one of you has any ground to stand on regarding immigrants, legal or otherwise (and that includes your own immigrant ancestors). All of us are human beings, even you two. All of our ancestors came here one way or another, legal or otherwise, as slaves or otherwise. If you have a problem with illegal immigrants I suggest you look at those that continue to employ them and why. Obviously those that employ illegal immigrants dont want to pay standard of living wages. Rather than spending more tax dollars to incarcerate the “illegal” immigrants that are looking for food to feed their families, we should be focusing on why they are coming here in the first place. Mexicans are being exploited by the ruling familes of Mexico. Our government needs to be putting pressure on the Mexican government to pay its people standard of living wages. NAFTA is another reason this is allowed to continue. Corporations profit by slave labor being paid slave wages. “Illegal” immigrants are not responsible for this war against middle class. None of these illegal immigrants would be coming here if they had options at home. There is no threat of terrorism from illegal immigrants wanting to feed their families. There is no threat from illegal immigrants in your right to believe in whatever god you believe in. And oh btw, there many immigrants serving in Iraq that agreed to do so just so they could become citizens of the US.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:13 pmCyra,
I actually agree. I may back Bush on the war and other issues but I dislike what these giant corporations get away with.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:13 pmVoice
I have no problem with immigrants because they are not us. I am concerned about security.
Gerald
March 29th, 2006 at 2:19 pmI say the same to you. In days of old Christains did not possess “dirty bombs” or have the means to gas an entire city in a few hours. These nuts have the means and the desire.
If we make it to 2050 we will most likely be a spanish speaking country. I welcome that and am insisting my children learn spanish. I love the Mexican people and culture and have numerous friends from Merida. In addition I have numerous relatives in PR or of PR decent. I’d let em all in as long as they mean us no harm and want to be a part of America.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:37 pmWhere is the word illegal in this poll? Is’nt that what congress is talking about?
March 29th, 2006 at 2:53 pmI-RIGHT-I and troll, unless you’re both 100 percent native american, neither one of you has any ground to stand on regarding immigrants, legal or otherwise (and that includes your own immigrant ancestors)
Comment by VoiceofReason
Nonsense, we’re AMERICAN CITIZENS and as such have two hundred plus years of blood and tear soaked ground to stand on. If the wetback wants his rights let him stay in MEXICO where he is a citizen. Otherwise he can STFU.
All of us are human beings, even you two. All of our ancestors came here one way or another, legal or otherwise, as slaves or otherwise.
Yes, and did it according to the law of the land prevailing in that day.
If you have a problem with illegal immigrants I suggest you look at those that continue to employ them and why.
We are looking at them but right now we’re preoccupied with a bunch of foreign beaners in our country parading around with Mexican flags demanding the rights and liberties of an American.
Obviously those that employ illegal immigrants dont want to pay standard of living wages. Rather than spending more tax dollars to incarcerate the “illegal†immigrants that are looking for food to feed their families, we should be focusing on why they are coming here in the first place.
You’re a f’ing genius aren’t you? They aren’t looking for food they are looking to make MORE MONEY. When was the last time you saw a skinny Mexican broad. Between the Mexicans and Africans we have the fattest-ass poor people in the world. Makes you wonder doesn’t it?
I’ll tell you why they are coming here, because we have a socialist nanny state going and they want those hand-outs. They also don’t like living in a third world shit-hole like Mexico.
Mexicans are being exploited by the ruling familes of Mexico. Our government needs to be putting pressure on the Mexican government to pay its people standard of living wages. NAFTA is another reason this is allowed to continue. Corporations profit by slave labor being paid slave wages.
Nonsense, they are not being exploited by anyone, they are the ones doing the exploiting and thanks to bleeding heart losers like you they do very well.
“Illegal†immigrants are not responsible for this war against middle class. None of these illegal immigrants would be coming here if they had options at home.
They do have options, they can work for less money in a country where the cost of living is very, very low. Or, they can skip across the border work for more money and send it back home to vastly improve their “lifestyle”. They are greedy little beggars.
There is no threat of terrorism from illegal immigrants wanting to feed their families. There is no threat from illegal immigrants in your right to believe in whatever god you believe in. And oh btw, there many immigrants serving in Iraq that agreed to do so just so they could become citizens of the US.
Nonsense, the scum of Mexico and S. America are streaming across our borders. Stupid, illiterate and criminal are the norm. Our crime rate is up our social services are being bankrupt, 30% of the people in Federal Prison are illegal aliens. In addition to that they in great enough numbers will change the culture of the USA, the language of the USA and in general lower the standard of living and quality of living for everyone. There is a reason that every country these Latin losers come from are third world shit holes….drum roll…..it’s because of the people and their crude, crooked and Roman Catholic culture. We have enough of that already thank you very much.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:10 pmIf we make it to 2050 we will most likely be a spanish speaking country. I welcome that and am insisting my children learn spanish. I love the Mexican people and culture and have numerous friends from Merida. In addition I have numerous relatives in PR or of PR decent. I’d let em all in as long as they mean us no harm and want to be a part of America.
Comment by troll
You are out of your fucking mind.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:13 pm#335 IRI,
I live in AZ, one of the best places to cross the border for illegals. I would have to partially agree with some of what you are saying. I have no idea how many are “good” immagrants and how many are “bad”, but man I have seen a lot of both. And the bad ones are screwing it up for the rest. I do have issues with some of these assholes coming over here, and then having all the Mexican flag crap on thier houses, pickups, etc. If you love Mexico so much, why did you leave? And, you are in America now, put away your Mexican flag. My ancestors came from Europe, should I be waving the flags from the nations they came from, no. I also don’t like some of these folks constantly looking for something to stick thier pee-pees into. And the attitude some illegals have, a sense of entitlement, the machismo, having tons of kids, the men not involved in being a parent. Some of these illegals are not satisfied with thier new life, they have to steal anyway. And the first generation of kids born in America to illegals, these little shits are the gang bangers, and delinquents, as thier parents want them to have a better life and don’t make them do shit. So yes the bad ones are messing it up for the rest.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:52 pmOh yeah, another beautiful one I saw the other day. This guy (immagrant from Mexico) was driving his pickup with all the typical crap on it, but he also had stickers on his back window, on each side their was a sticker of the classic trucker sexy lady silhouette, and in the middle was a sticker of the Virgin Mary, which in my opinion was pretty scummy.
March 29th, 2006 at 4:02 pmThis is not a terrorist issue. This has been going on for years and years and years and suddenly becomes a big deal when the corrupt Johnny Come Lately Bush Administration needs to shift the focus away from its corruption and incompetence in Domestic and Foreign Policy. The majority of the people coming to America legally or illegally are doing so because they want a better quality of life for themselves and their families. Being American doesn’t mean that we are entitled to a better quality of life than anyone else on the planet. Being American, living in the wealthiest country on face of the earth means we have an obligation to be the stewards of the planet acting on behalf of the less fortunate, which in many cases American corporations have exploited for a long time. The Mexican people have been exploited by American Corporations as well as the government of Mexico and will continue to be as long as we allow them to be villified. They are living breathing human beings. I-Right-I, calling Mexican immigrants “Beaners” only reveals your hatred and racist bigotry. You are an embarassment to all Americans when you make your racists remarks to support your arguments. And your opinions do not represent what the founding fathers of the United States of America, a country founded by immigrants, ever intended. 70 thousand of your so called “beaners” are currently fighting as soldiers in IRAQ. I would rather have them live next door to me than you any day of the week sir.
March 29th, 2006 at 4:32 pmYou are an embarassment to all Americans when you make your racists remarks to support your arguments. And your opinions do not represent what the founding fathers of the United States of America, a country founded by immigrants, ever intended. 70 thousand of your so called “beaners†are currently fighting as soldiers in IRAQ. I would rather have them live next door to me than you any day of the week sir.
Comment by VeteransforImmigrants
Oh my, sorry if I offended your bullshit multi-culti morally relative sensibilities. The fact is I do not use those racial epithet to support my argument I use them to enhance them…beanerbeanerbeaner. My arguments stand on their own and I notice you didn’t feel it necessary to try and refute them.
I intentionally did not address the fact that this government has seen fit to allow Mexican nationals to enlist in our armed services to win a prize of citizenship because that is another subject all together. It reminds me of the old Roman custom of enlisting foreign fighting men who had no love or loyalty to Rome and when the time was right deserted the sinking ship like the rats they were and joined in the rape and plunder of the city.
I don’t give a fat rat’s ass about the plight of the poor fucking Mexicans. They made their bed, they shit in it and now want to move here and do the same thing. So…with all respect due a man that has served my country not withstanding…go fuck yourself, sir.
March 29th, 2006 at 5:07 pmWhat is about the Mexican economy and politics make so many people want to come to the U.S. and work?
March 29th, 2006 at 5:36 pm“You are out of your fucking mind. ”
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 29, 2006 @ 3:13 pm
IRI the white man is on his way out. We will be extinct. Who do you propose we leave this beautiful land and heritage to? The Islamofascist are taking Europe. I think at least there is some hope to preserve civilization through the latinos. The problem is not so much their race as it is their socio-economic condition. I can tell you there is a big difference from what you see of Mexicans in the US and the middle and upper class from Mexico or anywhere in Central or even South America.
March 29th, 2006 at 6:43 pmVishnu you make a great point. All we’re hearing echoed by the scared little republican white trash like I-RIGHT-I is fear. He knows his days are numbered and soon he will be related to a mexican or another person of color. His pure white daughter will be banging a mexican or a negro and pumping out half breeds. Fortunately, due to hybrid vigor, they’ll be more intelligent and hardier offspring than he is. And when its all said and done, sooner or later his poor white trash ass will be bred out and when he’s old and gray he’ll be getting his ass wiped by the beaners he despises while he drools all over himself and pisses and shits his bed pan full.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:06 pmFunny, it seems to me that the “racism” is coming from both sides of the isle. I had a friend who went to one of the protests simply to see it and to see what was going on. He was spat on and cursed at for no other reason than being an “anglo” Please if you are going to claim to be objective, report both sides of the issue. I notice no mention of LA RAZA, the hispanic racist organization that wants no less than the reconquest of the southwestern United States, and the removal by whatever means necissary of the non hispanics now living there. In case you didnt realize it, a large group of people protested in OUR country the other day and in effect contested the sovereignty of the United States, technically an act of war. They dont believe they have to leave because they believe this IS their country. In a few years that may be a fact. Yes there is some hostility towards immigrants right now, but they have by in large fueled it with their attitude of contempt for our language, for our culture and their disdain for any kind of assimilation into America. I guess a lot of guys who used to work in construction and landscaping who have seen their livelyhoods evaporate might be a little miffed when they find themselves unable to support their families. Which brings up another point. There seems to be no shortage of compassion for illegal immigrants, but it is strangely absent for the people whose jobs they are taking. And the whole “they are taking jobs Americans dont want” arguement holds water because they are jobs whose wages have been devalued to a level no American can afford to work for. Its hard to compete with slavery. And these people are not really like the immigrants of days of old, who made the attempt to become Americans and assimilate into our society and culture. They want nothing from us other than our prosperity and our land. I want to state that I am not writing this out of any racist attitude towards hispanics. I am simply reaching my conclusions by things I have observed personally. I am the grandson of Italian immigrants, who came here not knowing the language. But they DID learn it, and their kids did as well. They didnt hang Italian flags in their cars becuase when they set foot on the soil of this nation, their loyalty came with them. I personally dont believe anyone who intend to live here should have loyalty to a foriegn nation. If you are hispanic and you read this, please do two things: one, LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH! Not because it is a superior language to your own, but so you can communicate with the other Americans, the Chinese Americans, the Arab Americans,African Americans, the people who have come here and forsaken their mother toungue so they could talk to their neighbors, for the sacrifice of remaining ONE NATION. You see, we want to be ONE country, not two. And for hundred of years our language has bound us and helped to keep the peace. You arent the first immigrants here, you are the latest in long line of groups who ALL gave in, learned our language and became Americans. If you come here, want to work, obey our laws and hold out your hands in freindship, we welcome you. But if you come here, talk about “Taking over” , show contempt and arrogance, you do so at your peril. Americans are a compassionate and generous people,slow to anger, but when they get pissed WATCH OUT. Just ask the Japanese.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:11 pmHugo Chavez is one person doing something constructive to keep his people happy and in Venezuela. If there were someone like him in Mexico it would make things even better. Unfortunately, the Republicans (and TV preachers) want to take Chavez out. Go figure.
Look, if you take a balloon ride over the southern boarder you will not see a black line painted there. It wasn’t there when the earth cooled off its molton rock and never will exist except on a piece of paper. Time to start thinking of ourselves as earthlings instead of ignorant fools. There isn’t enough black paint or fencing to make any real boarder.
My family was actually settled in the US before there was a US. We should have started banning immigrants with keeping out the Irish and Italians. Then we may not have had that dork Italian from Colorado…
March 29th, 2006 at 10:22 pmIRI
The US is a product of the morality. rationalism and humanism which evolved out of Christianity. If you take a close look at Catholic social teaching youd be pleasantly surprised at its support of religious freedom, democracy, property rights and capitalism.
Give them an education so they can earn money to buy a piece of property and they will fight as hard as any to protect it.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:24 pmRacist people like IRI have no tolerance for Latinos. He will never see the value in us no matter what we believe in or accomplish in our lives. We could fight a thousand wars for the USA and we would still be scum in his eyes. You can’t reason with hate and bigotry.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:44 pmLA
March 29th, 2006 at 10:59 pmI dont think so. I think he simply desires to preserve what he treasures. If he believes Latinos will accomplish this I think he would welcome them.
Hugo Chavez is a tyrrant and a crook, the last thing the people of Mexico need is a socialist dictator to really screw things up.
March 29th, 2006 at 11:04 pmHugo Chavez appears to be a saint compared to Bush and his corrupt profit driven administration which prioritizes corporate interest over the welfare of Americans. The project for the new american century (PNAC) called for a 2nd pearl harbor to con the American people into supporting a false war on Iraq. Iraq’s deciding to trade oil for euros was the last straw. The Bush Administration deliberately sat back while terrorists killed 3000 Americans on 9/11/2001, ignoring 50 reports that outlined the exact method of attack. The Bush administration would love to murder Hugo Chavez and may ultimately do so to get their filthy paws on the natural resources of Venezuela. If Hugo Chavez agreed to give Bush exclusive rights to Venezuela’s resources, the Bush administration would turn their heads to any evil Chavez would committ. There are countless dictators and evil regimes around the world that have the full support of the Bush administration because they are business partners. Obviously the corrupt ruling families of Mexico have a similar deal worked out with the Bushistas. They provide Bush and his cronies and constituents with cheap Mexican slave labor.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:15 amI dont think so. I think he simply desires to preserve what he treasures. If he believes Latinos will accomplish this I think he would welcome them.
Comment by troll — March 29, 2006 @ 10:59 pm
Please don’t try to justify I-RIGHT-I’s racist rants; he is ThinkProgress’ resident KKKer. You don’t have to believe me, just read his posts:
[Mexican corruption] is a problem but nothing a little Puritan Fundamentalist Christianity couldn’t cure. Ever notice that everything the Catholics touch turns to shit?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — September 22, 2005 @ 2:17 pm
Hey, what does a Mexcian know about ethics anyway?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — September 25, 2005 @ 12:41 pm
We need more women in the kitchen cooking dinner. Oh, we don’t want to control everything….WE DO ALREADY. Get used to it loser.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 1, 2005 @ 2:47 pm
[Women should NOT vote] Because they f e e l , they don’t think. There are exceptions to the rule and they all agree with me.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — November 2, 2005 @ 5:39 pm
That’s nice Sara…how many NO Negroes can we put Colorado Springs down for? We’ve got about 123,454 more than we really need here in Houston and would love it if you’d take a few.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — September 13, 2005 @ 9:53 pm
The American Negroe will never control anything until they learn to control themselves. Comment by I-RIGHT-I — September 14, 2005 @ 2:16 pm
I don’t think much of the Red Chinese. I find it helps to dehumanize them when considering that one of these days we’re going to kill over a billion of them.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:37 amComment by I-RIgHT-I — November 27, 2005 @ 2:53 pm
Hugo Chavez is a tyrrant and a crook, the last thing the people of Mexico need is a socialist dictator to really screw things up.
Comment by troll — March 29, 2006 @ 11:04 pm
Chavez is no a tyrant: He was elected twice in open, transparent, democratic, and internationally observed elections with close to 60% of the popular vote every time.
Until the election of Fox in 2000, most of the policies of the PRI in Mexico were very socialistic by US standards.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:41 amGregor what do you expect? ReichWingers will immediately villify anyone that opposes their corporate interests and apologize for anyone that shares their agenda. If Hitler were alive today, Bush and his constituency would have photo ops with him and enjoy the fruits of his campaign contributions. Like IRI said, he’s prepared to support the slaughter of 1 billion Chinese, whats a few million Jews? It should be interesting to see how long this truce lasts though between ReichWing Catholics and Protestants. I have a feeling that after a few more million man marches like in LA last weekend, they may go back to openly hating eachother. One thing you can always count on with history repeating itself is that the evil will eventually devour itself as well. Lets just hope that happens before they devour the rest of us.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:24 amScapegoats
Scapegoat Hispanics
Scapegoat Immigrants
Scapegoat the Poor
Scapegoat Native Americans
Scapegoat Gays
Scapegoat Jews
Scapegoat Blacks
Scapegoat Women
Scapegoat Arabs
Scapegoat Chinese
Scapegoat non-believers
Scapegoat Muslims
Scapegoat Progressives
Scapegoat Liberals
Scapegoat Democrats
Scapegoat Patriots
Scapegoat Soldiers
Scapegoat Scientists
Scapegoat Unions
Scapegoat Workers
Scapegoat Teachers
Scapegoat Protesters
Scapegoat Americans
Scapegoat Human Beings
Scapegoats
March 30th, 2006 at 7:52 am“Until the election of Fox in 2000, most of the policies of the PRI in Mexico were very socialistic by US standards.”
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 30, 2006 @ 2:41 am
Which is probably a reason why their economy is in the tank.
“Chavez is no a tyrant: He was elected twice in open, transparent, democratic, and internationally observed elections with close to 60% of the popular vote every time.
Until the election of Fox in 2000, most of the policies of the PRI in Mexico were very socialistic by US standards.”
Comment by Gregor Samsa — March 30, 2006 @ 2:41 am
So he is a demagogue who knows how to fix an election. Socialism does not work. It is a failed system. Capitalism and/or Christianity created the hospital you where born in and the University you allegedly studied in. Government could not build these without the taxes they recieve from the profits of the “greedy” capitalist. Corporate America created the middle/consumer class which prevented you from having to shovel frozen dung from your only goat off the floor of your disease laden barn. Drug companies like Pfizer have probably saved the lives of you and you’re loved ones at least once. Whats that worth?
Many “Socialist” European countries have three times the unemployment rate and fewer than half the percentage of college graduates than the US.. Business in Europe is being taxed out of existence. Do you see what is happening in France as a result of socialism?
You are ignorant if you see the US as a greater threat than Hugo. FYI Hugo is a “greedy oil capitalist.” Does that help make him the enemy?
Socialism and democracy are not compatible. Socialism is a result of class envy. Economic egalitarianism as a means of prosperity is a myth, a lie that does not result in a better life for the poor but rather results in the destruction of the means of wealth creation by eliminating any incentive by eliminating material reward for excellence resulting in deeper poverty. This poverty leads to social chaos and eventually the need for brutal suppression to maintain order. It is so sad to see the poor of Venezuela led by demagogues like Hugo who at first seem benign then like a boa slowly choke the life out of them. I am not blind to the problems of capitalism but it has a better track record of economic growth, social justice and social stability. The utopia which socialists promise sounds great, but in reality it can’t be maintained in a free society.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:06 am“Christianity created the hospital you where born in and the University you allegedly studied in.”Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 8:06 am
Unless he attended a privately operated University, that is highly unlikely.
Arguments were made on April 3rd, 1962. On June 25, 1962, the Supreme Court ruled 7 to 1 that it was unconstitutional for a government agency like a school or government agents like public school employees to require students to recite prayers.
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchstatedecisions/a/EngelVitale.htm
Title VI, 42 U.S.C. § 2000d et seq., was enacted as part of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964. It prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin in programs and activities receiving federal financial assistance. As President John F. Kennedy said in 1963:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titlevi.htm
Mr. President
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
March 30th, 2006 at 8:42 am“Unless he attended a privately operated University, that is highly unlikely.”
Comment by SeparationOfChurch&State — March 30, 2006 @ 8:42 am
You misquoted me. The corrected version is “Capitalism and/or Christianity created the hospital you where born in and the University you allegedly studied in.”
March 30th, 2006 at 9:47 amComment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 8:06 am
IRI
The US is a product of the morality. rationalism and humanism which evolved out of Christianity. If you take a close look at Catholic social teaching youd be pleasantly surprised at its support of religious freedom, democracy, property rights and capitalism.
Give them an education so they can earn money to buy a piece of property and they will fight as hard as any to protect it.
Comment by troll — March 29, 2006 @ 10:24 pm
Troll, rationalism (if you know what it really means) and humanism (if you know what that really is) is a product of French sophists and other assorted “thinkers” that brought about the slaughter of the French revolution and eventually the theories of Marx that were borrowed heavily from by Hitler and of course the mass murdering nation killers of the Soviet and Red Chinese. There is no link between Christianity and the humanists and the rationalists. The link exists between those “free thinkers” and the words uttered in the garden; “thou shall be as gods”.
Catholic social teaching changes from one country to another and from one sect to another but is for the most part socialist and egalitarian with times of outright communistic teaching as demonstrated by the Latin movement of Liberation Theology that is still applied in S. America by Catholic theologians and clergy. Those are the people we want living in our country. I think not.
As I’ve said I’m not interested in providing a new home to millions of Latin immigrants illegal or otherwise. They are not a people who can assimilate into a country of White Anglo Saxon Protestants and will by their numbers and high birth rate change the fabric of this country to that of the places they’ve come from. That is not acceptable.
Racist people like IRI have no tolerance for Latinos. He will never see the value in us no matter what we believe in or accomplish in our lives. We could fight a thousand wars for the USA and we would still be scum in his eyes. You can’t reason with hate and bigotry.
Comment by LatinoAmerican
I have no problem with the Americans who happen to be of Hispanic descent who are here legally and have been for generations. They are a welcome spice to the melting pot and have proven themselves worthy over generations of fighting for the Red White and Blue and making this a better country. I live in Texas and many of them are my friends, neighbors and Christian brothers. However, the new arrivals from the South are not welcome. They break our laws just entering, they provide no service we did not have before they came, they overwhelm our social services and steal resources from our schools. All thanks to Liberals who believe that everyone in the world deserves rights and privileges and benefits of American citizens but that only a chosen few (of us) should shoulder the responsibilities and pay for it all.
It is amazing to me that flag waving foreign nationals, law breakers are treated with more respect by our government and by some Americans than those of us who are genuine productive citizens of the country. It isn’t so amazing that fuckwits like you trot out the charge of racism at every opportunity. Fine, call me a racist and a bigot and a knuckledragging right wing christonazi but you’d better do it quick because as long as there are hyphenated American losers like you willing to support those that subvert our laws, our language and our culture you will find yourself on the receiving end of mistrust and hatred and eventually violence if something isn’t done to stop you by our government.
I am horrified that someone like Troll looks forward to the day when this country is mostly Hispanic and everybody is speaking Spanish. I think he’s out of his fucking mind or……he’s Hispanic himself and just being honest. What some of you losers want is nothing less than a new Mexican country on this side of the border, isn’t that so?
March 30th, 2006 at 9:54 amIRI
Liberation Theology is not part of Catholic Social teaching it is a school of thought in the Jesuit tradition which has been officially condemned because of its Marxist leanings. “[T]his conception of Christ as a political figure, a revolutionary, as the subversive of Nazareth, does not tally with the Church’s catechesis”, Pope JP II 1979
It has been revived in protestant theology however and its errors will continue and spread there do to the protestant churches lack of any hierarchy to set it straight.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:09 am#349
You better watch out…
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/world/14151458.htm
#350
Chaves is a dictatorial thug who is in bed deep with Castro. Mexico on the other hand has no middle class and the government is just as corrupt as Chaves or Castro. They have millions of barrels of oil and they can’t keep their own people from leaving to look for work. Can’t be too far to the left or right and expect an economy to work.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:19 am“Unless he attended a privately operated University, that is highly unlikely.â€
Comment by SeparationOfChurch&State — March 30, 2006 @ 8:42 am
You misquoted me. The corrected version is “Capitalism and/or Christianity created the hospital you where born in and the University you allegedly studied in.â€
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 8:06 am
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 9:47 am
No, I deliberately focused on the part I disagreed with. The United States of America is not a Theocracy, thank God.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:24 amT]his conception of Christ as a political figure, a revolutionary, as the subversive of Nazareth, does not tally with the Church’s catechesisâ€, Pope JP II 1979
It has been revived in protestant theology however and its errors will continue and spread there do to the protestant churches lack of any hierarchy to set it straight.
Comment by troll
It has NOT been revived in Protestant theology as liberal fucktards who call themselves Protestant don’t have the guts to come straight out and peddle communism. I’m aware that JP called some of his radicals to heel but that doesn’t mean they’ve stopped and the last time I checked Hugo Chavez was still taking communion.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:25 amOne thing you can always count on with history repeating itself is that the evil will eventually devour itself as well. Lets just hope that happens before they devour the rest of us.
Comment by ReichWingBushCorporatists — March 30, 2006 @ 3:24 am
I am horrified that someone like Troll looks forward to the day when this country is mostly Hispanic and everybody is speaking Spanish. I think he’s out of his fucking mind Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 9:54 am
Well that didn’t take long. Maybe I should invest in a crystal ball.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:30 amIt has been revived in protestant theology however and its errors will continue and spread there do to the protestant churches lack of any hierarchy to set it straight.
Comment by troll
One more thing about that hierarchy…the Protestants do have a hierarchy, it’s called the Bible and the Holy Spirit. The fact that most ignore it doesn’t mean it isn’t effective. But the problem with the Catholic hierarchy is once they go astray there is hell to pay to get them back on track. The last hell was the Reformation. You’re about due for another one.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:32 am#355
The U.S. economy and government is a hybrid of socialism and capitalism. A term I have used before to describe the U.S. is sociocapitalism where the the government works with the private sector to create rules and regulations that allow the economy to grow while keeping runaway capitalism in check. You are correct to say that socialism, where there is this BS notion of a planned economy, is not compatible with freedom and democracy; however pure capitalism alone is just a bad, where corporations are allowed to act purely in their own profit interests while disregarding the workers salaries and safety.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:38 amhowever pure capitalism alone is just a bad, where corporations are allowed to act purely in their own profit interests while disregarding the workers salaries and safety.
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 10:38 am
Tracy, The ReichWingBushCorporatistFundamentalists conveniently ignore that tidbit of info by shifting the focus with anti-communist, anti-terrorist, anti-socialist, racist rhetoric. Meanwhile they do exactly what they accuse everyone else of and continue to rape and plunder every natural resource on the planet while exploiting the poor and unfortunate people as slaver labor. Then they pretend to be goodie two shoes god fearing patriotic folk and have the audacity to blame the impoverished people they molest for their molesting them! Its a big stinking lie. Bush and his band of thuggish criminals are the true terrorists, exploiters, murderers, rapists, bigots. There is not one shred of anything that resembles Jesus Christ, Mohamed, Buddha, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Mother Theresa, or any one else that served humanity in these lying NeoConservative NeoNazi snakes. If there is indeed a hellish lake of fire awaiting in the afterlife, Bush and his followers will be the first names called to attend on judgement day.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:14 pm“One more thing about that hierarchy…the Protestants do have a hierarchy, it’s called the Bible and the Holy Spirit.”
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 10:32 am
Thats why there are 22000 seperate protestant denominations in the Us alone and they all have different sometimes contradictory teachings?
March 30th, 2006 at 12:28 pm“One thing you can always count on with history repeating itself is that the evil will eventually devour itself as well. Lets just hope that happens before they devour the rest of us.”
Comment by ReichWingBushCorporatists — March 30, 2006 @ 3:24 am
It does not take a crystal ball to see hindsight the Dems lost all power long ago.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:35 pm“Troll, rationalism (if you know what it really means) and humanism (if you know what that really is) is a product of French sophists and other assorted “thinkers— IRI
In their atheistic assumption I agree, sophistry. Non the less the Rationalism of the Ancient Greeks was resurected by Chistian philosophers like Thomas More in the middle ages leading to the enlightenment, it then greatly influenced the founding fathers and early Presidents as is evidenced by their Deist approach to rhe faith.
Tracy
March 30th, 2006 at 1:01 pmBravo. That is the middle ground which Catholic Social teaching advocates and the USA has realized it overall. I think demonstrating that overall it holds the center. taking care of the poorest of the poor and the children is what a government can ethically mandate the rest is up to charities and the individual to provide the rest.
“No, I deliberately focused on the part I disagreed with. The United States of America is not a Theocracy, thank God. ”
Comment by SeparationOfChurch&State — March 30, 2006 @ 10:24 am
NO this is deliberately lying. But I expect that from athiests.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:03 pmWhich is probably a reason why [Mexico's] economy is in the tank.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 8:06 am
I was rectifying your incorrect assumption that Mexico had never had a socialistic system. Whether their economy is in the doldrums is a whole other subject.
So [Hugo Chavez] is a demagogue who knows how to fix an election.
I was rectifying your incorrect assuption that Chavez is a tyrant. Whether or not he is demagogue is a whole other subject.
Also, as I said before he did not “fix” any elections: About 400 international observers were on the ground to certify the transparency and validity of the Venezuelan 2004 elections.
As an aside: By changing the subject thus, you have tacitly admitted you were wrong.
Venezuelans freely elected Chavez. Twice. It is time for you to accept that fact.
Socialism does not work. It is a failed system.
Countries from Northern Europe (Norway, Denmark, Finland) have socialistic systems. Their economies are doing well.
Capitalism and/or Christianity created the hospital you where born in and the University you allegedly studied in.
No. Although I do have a college degree, and it is not an “alleged” one.
Corporate America created the middle/consumer class which prevented you from having to shovel frozen dung from your only goat off the floor of your disease laden barn.
???? This is bizarre. I have never owned a goat, or lived in a barn.
Was that a sad attempt at a class, racial dig?
Business in Europe is being taxed out of existence.
Have you heard of Nokia? Siemens? SAP? Airbus?
You are ignorant if you see the US as a greater threat than Hugo. FYI Hugo is a “greedy oil capitalist.â€
I didn’t say that. But now that you mention it, most LatinAmerican countries do see the US as a greater threat: Venezuela and/or Chavez has not invaded them, to impose puppet, corrupt, dictatorial governments on them.
FYI: Venezuelan oil is exploited by the government-owned Petroleos de Venezuela. Chavez does not own any oil, or oil company.
Socialism and democracy are not compatible.
Don’t let the Fins hear that. Or the Norwegians. Or the Danish. Or….
March 30th, 2006 at 1:09 pmI meant Thomas Aquinas sorry.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:16 pmChaves is a dictatorial thug who is in bed deep with Castro.
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 10:19 am
Once again, Chavez was elected twice by popular, certified vote. The elections were certified as free, transparent and democratic by close to 400 international oberservers.
Mexico on the other hand has no middle class (…)
Mexico has a middle class, and has always had one -albeit small in size when compared to the US.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:19 pm“I was rectifying your incorrect assumption that Mexico had never had a socialistic system. Whether their economy is in the doldrums is a whole other subject.”
I don’t recall assuming this.
“Corporate America created the middle/consumer class which prevented you from having to shovel frozen dung from your only goat off the floor of your disease laden barn.
???? This is bizarre. I have never owned a goat, or lived in a barn. ”
Precisely.
“Was that a sad attempt at a class, racial dig?”
Absolutely NOT.
“Have you heard of Nokia? Siemens? SAP? Airbus?”
The Soviets were able to maintain some industry as well.
You are ignorant if you see the US as a greater threat than Hugo. FYI Hugo is a “greedy oil capitalist.â€
“I didn’t say that. But now that you mention it, Most LatinAmerican countries do see the US as a greater threat.”
Evidence?
“Don’t let the Fins hear that. Or the Norwegians. Or the Danish. Or….”
They allready know it and like France are slowly backtracking.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:26 pm#366
If I wanted BS rhetoric I would actually listen to Air America Radio.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:39 pmNO this is deliberately lying. But I expect that from athiests.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 1:03 pm
There are fewer atheists in prison than Christians in correlation to demographics (i.e. 15% of the U.S. is non-religious, but less than 1% of those in prison are). Atheism isn’t a lack of morality. It’s simple a do it yourself ideology, rather than a prepackaged one.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:43 pm#371
“Countries from Northern Europe (Norway, Denmark, Finland) have socialistic systems. Their economies are doing well.”
They have very small populations and they are not pure socialist systems. They are more socialist than the U.S. but their SMALL economies allow them to be managed more effectively that the larger economies of Europe like France and Germany, which BTW haven’t produced hardly any noticable growth in the last ten years and they are just as if not more socialistic than the Scandanavian countries socaially.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:52 pm“There are fewer atheists in prison than Christians in correlation to demographics (i.e. 15% of the U.S. is non-religious, but less than 1% of those in prison are). Atheism isn’t a lack of morality. It’s simple a do it yourself ideology, rather than a prepackaged one. ”
Comment by unbelievable — March 30, 2006 @ 1:43 pm
It could be they are simply better at not getting caught.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pmMurder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.’” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
March 30th, 2006 at 2:01 pmMore than likely it is a result of socio-economic factors. Wealthy people are more likely to give up belief in God. Crime is usualy associated with poverty.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:03 pmdown withthe mexicans
March 30th, 2006 at 2:06 pmThey have very small populations and they are not pure socialist systems. They are more socialist than the U.S. but their SMALL economies allow them to be managed more effectively that the larger economies of Europe (…)
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 1:52 pm
There was no mention of population, economy size or “purity” the socialist system as a requirement for the accuracy of the claim.
The statement was wrong, and your reply confirms it since you need to caveat the original assertion.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:08 pmMurder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
March 30th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#371
“FYI: Venezuelan oil is exploited by the government-owned Petroleos de Venezuela. Chavez does not own any oil, or oil company.”
And Chaves is the leader of the Venezuelan government! Petroleos de Venezuela is a state owned and operated government entity.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:10 pm“Atheism isn’t a lack of morality. It’s simple a do it yourself ideology, rather than a prepackaged one. ”
Comment by unbelievable — March 30, 2006 @ 1:43 pm
Right. Make it up as you go.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:10 pmThanks Tracy I had forgotten to address that.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pmAnd Chaves is the leader of the Venezuelan government! Petroleos de Venezuela is a state owned and operated government entity.
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
Chavez does not own Petroleos de Venezuela, as he does not own the government of Venezuela.
To say that Chavez owns PDVSA is tantamount to saying that Pres Bush owns Yellowstone National Park.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:16 pmMore Murder Rape, Slavery and Pillaging(textbook BushAdministrationNeoConservativism) (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery? The ReichWingNeoConservative Bush God, who else?
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
March 30th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#382
“There was no mention of population, economy size or “purity†the socialist system as a requirement for the accuracy of the claim.”
So what?…I am mentioning it, and the fact the neither you or Troll mentioned a very important factor when discussing whether or not socialism works, makes your comment about the northern European economies doing well or his statment about socialism and democracy being incompatible, misleading to the premise of the debate.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:18 pmIt could be they are simply better at not getting caught.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 2:00 pm
That’s not even remotely logical. No. Try rationalizing in another vein.
Right. Make it up as you go.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
No that’s your tactic. I’m telling you what Atheism is and isn’t based upon being one. Contrary to the propaganda of those who want your tithing every week, we aren’t Atheists to be immoral, we just think we can do a better job at defining our actions than a bucnh of dead desert dwellers claiming to be inspired by an invisible deity. And based upon the conviction rate of criminals, we are right.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:19 pm“Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.”
Comment by StopBibleThumpingNeoConRapists — March 30, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
You are retarded.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:20 pmMore than likely it is a result of socio-economic factors. Wealthy people are more likely to give up belief in God. Crime is usualy associated with poverty.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
Not socio-economic – but educational. Poor people can be more educated than rich people. Compare Paris Hilton to the poor kids at Harvard.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pmmisleading to the premise of the debate.
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
It is not misleading. He made a statement. I showed it is wrong. Now you are trying to change the subject and qualify the statement after the fact. That is misleading.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:23 pmLaws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: The NeoConservative Bush God.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
March 30th, 2006 at 2:23 pmThe term Socialism in discussion often does not suffice for clarlty in argument. I initially was refering to pure socialism then moved to mixed economy references I need to be more consistant and clear and take resposibility for the confussion.
I absolutely recognize that we in the US are a mixed economy. But where we draw the line is a legitimate area of debate.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pmThe US is a product of the morality. rationalism and humanism which evolved out of Christianity.
Comment by troll — March 29, 2006 @ 10:24 pm
Here’s another example of Troll’s “morality, rationalism and humanism evolved from Christian dogma, straight from the sacred Christian text.
Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that the Christian Bible God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”. This fits right in with NeoConservativeCorpratism, bent on stealing everything on the face of the earth and exploiting everyone in the process.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:39 pm“Atheism isn’t a lack of morality. It’s simple a do it yourself ideology, rather than a prepackaged one. â€
Comment by unbelievable — March 30, 2006 @ 1:43 pm
Right. Make it up as you go.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
No that’s your tactic.
Comment by unbelievable — March 30, 2006 @ 2:19 pm
You want to have it both ways. In one comment you say Christian morality is prepackaged then say it is make it up as you go. Make up your mind.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:40 pmWhat kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: The NeoConservative Bush God.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
Comment by StopBibleThumpingNeoConRapists
What kind of lunatic substitutes the words meaning consentual sex for rape and then claim God approves? Aren’t you the clever one? Oh wait, that was a copy and paste jobe wasn’t it? Never mind. Dumbass
March 30th, 2006 at 2:40 pmIRI
March 30th, 2006 at 2:45 pmits sounds like Hindu Dimwit. aka Rainman
Since I-RIGHT-I the self proclaimed racist is in favor of “consentual sex”, no doubt with those incapable of giving consent, here’s another fine example of where he gleaned the murderous rapist ideology he adheres to like the brainwashed christian savage he is.
Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”
Once again the Christian/Bush God and I-RIGHT-I, approve of forcible rape.
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
March 30th, 2006 at 2:49 pmHere’s what Troll, I-RIGHT-I and the other dirt bag Bush supporters have in mind for illegal immigrants:
Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
March 30th, 2006 at 2:54 pmYou want to have it both ways. In one comment you say Christian morality is prepackaged then say it is make it up as you go. Make up your mind.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
You’re good with the smoke and mirrors, but they are still just tricks,and I’m no dog.
Let’s clarify the illusion.
It’s not a judgment, just a reality. Jesus established the tennets of Christianity (hence the religion being named after him),so a Christian follows the teachings of Jesus. That is pre-packaged ideology that you follow the directions on teh back of the box.
I said YOU were making it up as you go. You are not Jesus. Thererfore, I was not referencing Christianity in that comment.
Clear?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:55 pmWhat kind of lunatic substitutes the words meaning consentual sex for rape and then claim God approves? Aren’t you the clever one?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
Exodus 21:7 (King James Version)
7And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
8If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
9And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
10If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
11And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
.
There’s the actual text from the actual KJ Bible. I don’t think Hebrew changes the misogyny or makes it consentual.
No wonder you think women are whores.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:04 pmPlease demonstrate how I have made up my morallity as I went.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:06 pmPlease demonstrate how I have made up my morallity as I went.
Comment by troll — March 30, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
Don’t you get dizzy? Not your morality, but your argument. Just re-read your posts. No better proof than the actual horse’s mouth.
Now do you actually want to debate something of substance, or just semantics? Inoticed the face of Jesus on my veggie burger, and I’m thinking of getting it on EBay.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:15 pmGod Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
The Christian Bible is clearly filled with this sick crap the NeoCons adhere to like savages. This is why Americans rebelled against and will continue to rebel against any form of Theocratic government. We know how sick NeoCons are. We know how the bible is filled with murder, rape, slavery, hatred, and bloodlust. Anyone that adheres to his demented Christian Biblical ideology should seek psychiatric help immediately.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:25 pmIn the cases above where gender was specified, 35 assaults were against girls and 7 were against boys. Validation that child molesters are predominantly molesting girls, and not the ‘gay pervert’ statistics the neocons spout.
All of this is sick. Anyone who touches a in this regard child is sick. And putting them in jail for a few years is a lose-lose situation.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:25 pmI agree unbelievable. I just find it hypocritical that these NeoCons rant and rave and attempt to villify and demonize everyone else in the world when the truth is they have demonstrated time and time again they are just as corrupt if not more so than ANYONE they point a finger at. Nothing in the world trumps what these ReichWingChristianConservativeCorporatistFundamentalists are capable of and have done!…certainly not what illegal immigrants looking for a better way of life are busy doing. (to get back on topic.) Its too bad we have to hold a mirror up to the faces of these guys just to get them to shut up for one minute and stop villifying the victims of the world.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:37 pmIts too bad we have to hold a mirror up to the faces of these guys just to get them to shut up for one minute and stop villifying the victims of the world.
Comment by StopBibleThumpingNeoConRapists — March 30, 2006 @ 3:37 pm
Hey, whatever works… And your posts were certainly a very big mirror. Got quiet in here in fact…
March 30th, 2006 at 3:48 pm#387
“Chavez does not own Petroleos de Venezuela, as he does not own the government of Venezuela.”
I didn’t say he owned it, I said he and his government minons run it. Don’t try to spin something that is very clear.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:15 pm#393
You tried to state that socialism works and you conveniently left out the fact that your examples are limited in scope and therefore doesn’t paint a true reality.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:18 pmI didn’t say he owned it, I said he and his government minons run it.
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 4:15 pm
Troll said “Chavez is a greedy oil capitalist” -hinting Chavez owns, or has financial interests in, oil companies. That is not the case. No spin needed.
You tried to state that socialism works (…)
Comment by Tracy — March 30, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
I didn’t “conveniently” leave anything out. Troll said “Socialism does not work. It is a failed system.” No caveats, no qualifications. I showed that blanket statement is wrong.
The more you try to introduce caveats after the fact, the more you highlight how the original statement was wrong, thus agreeing with me and proving me right.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:46 pmThank GOD I am a Racist!!!! NO MEXICANS !!!!!!!! http://www.halturnershow.com