Blackwater USA: Turning The All-Volunteer Army Into An ‘Army For Hire’
Blackwater USA: Turning The All-Volunteer Army Into An ‘Army For Hire’
This week at a conference in Jordan, Blackwater USA vice chairman Cofer Black announced that the private security company is ready to shift from a security role to a more “overt combat role,” essentially becoming an army for hire.
The Bush administration has shown itself more than willing to call in Blackwater in place of U.S. troops.
In Aug. 2003, the Bush administration awarded Blackwater a $21.3 million contract to guard then Amb. Paul Bremer. The average senior special operations officer makes $50,000 a year from the U.S. government. Employees in private security firms in Iraq often make more than $1,000 a day from government contracts. This arrangement is “depleting the ranks of the special forces,” luring them into lucrative private jobs.
Some military analysts initially welcomed the administration’s private security arrangement with Blackwater because it allowed “regular military troops to concentrate on fighting.” But Blackwater’s new proposal would shift some of the fighting to the private sector, further diminishing the role of the all-volunteer army.
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Nice catch, Amanda!
March 30th, 2006 at 3:55 pmPRIVITIZE EVERYTHING…thats the Rethug way…
“Why does GWB and his Repub cronies hate the troops”
How do suppport the troops by replacing them with HIGHER PAID guns for hire
March 30th, 2006 at 3:58 pmI don’t understand how the government can justify spending so much on contracts. Why don’t they just pay the military higher wages. Seems they would save a lot more money that way.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:58 pmBush is gonna outsource our Army to the UAE to make up for the failed ports deal…
March 30th, 2006 at 3:59 pmPrivate Army’s holy shit, I’m guessing this is the new Republican Gaurd!!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:00 pmBOOM! BOOM! You mercenaries of doom!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:00 pmWhat hypocrits! How can you get more brave Americans to join up if the underarmed, illequipted voulenteer service members are payed less then Haliburton buss drivers?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:00 pmGreat idea….people are a lot more likely to be loyal to the highest bidder. That’ll be a great way to stronger national security. …..in the neo-con’s twisted-assed universe.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:01 pmI knew this was coming.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:01 pmA close friend of mine who works for one of the elite contractors (not blackwater) had been going through some additional training in the last few months.
Much more rigorous than what they’d been doing for their intended purpose, which was standard security stuff.
Yeah, these guys are elite, at least the former military ones.
But, the reason they are elite is because they can take what they know and operate with reckless abandon. Not saying they do, just saying they can.
And who do they answer to again…?
Corperate Army… Hot Damn!
Now we don’t have to worry about all those pesky international rules of war.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:02 pmI’m sick of hearing the phrase “all-volunteer army.” Volunteering implies that there is no payment for volunteered services. We already have a mercenary army. My problem with this deal is that the Blackwater contractors are paid so much more than our armed forces.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:02 pmWhat a bad idea. Who is accountable for offensive minded private troops? Could Mexican companies hire them to wage war on our border? How about Venezuala? How about North Korea? If it’s OK for us, it’s OK for the 120+ countries of the world to do the same thing. Do we really want a world where private sector interests trump international relations?
Where does the outsourcing of our government’s accountability end?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:02 pmwhy not call them mercenaries, which is exactly what there are..how low can Bush can go? must be upset about those pesky inquiries into wrong doings by us troops…mercenaries report to no one but the guy with the pay check
March 30th, 2006 at 4:07 pmI’m wondering, will they try to privatize the government next?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:09 pmOK, IRI and COD–you guys can join up with Blackwater, make righteous republican-style money and still “defend” the country by going over to Iraq and shooting up the bad guys. What are you waiting for??
March 30th, 2006 at 4:10 pm#14 – We could get a bunch of illegals to run it just as poorly for a hell of a lot cheaper.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:12 pm#11 – The phrase “all-volunteer army” is an oblique reference to the time in which the draft made our military non-volunteer. Because we no longer have a draft, anyone who joins the military is doing it because they “volunteer” their signature on the contract for 2-6 years of service.
I agree, the term “volunteer” does make one think of “free”, but that would be like saying “The defendant ‘volunteered’ the information. . . ” Everyone and their brother knows the ‘defendant’ only ‘volunteered’ the information in order to avoid a harsher sentence, but they still use “volunteer” to describe it.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:13 pmAll millitary personal, your fired, your jobs have been sent overseas. No retirements will be honored. All Generals will take off thoes metals and stars. GW.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:14 pmjust so everyone knows, the MAIN reason–other than graft, collusion, and payments to special interests–is this:
THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE DOES NOT APPLY TO THESE ASSASSINS
so–as if it mattered, post abu gharib–these slimey bastards can do whatever they want to whomever they want, without ANY law applying to them, but for a possible “breach of contract” claim that the US gov’t would have to file in civil court…
have a very nice day, and, as always FUCK BUSH
March 30th, 2006 at 4:15 pmCofer Black? Where do I know that name from? Must have come from the “revolving door”.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:16 pm#16:
Only if they get a guest worker pass and jump through hoops to become US citizens. ;)
March 30th, 2006 at 4:16 pm#12 – “Where does the outsourcing of our government’s accountability end? ”
When Pres. Bush is out of office/a job in January of 2009.
With luck, if the Republicans lose their majority this coming mid-term election cycle, it could be sooner!
It’s possible it will happen in both the House and the Senate! Maybe not probable, but possible!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:16 pmGo get em.I hope they kick some ass.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:18 pmOutsource everything, screw-it.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:22 pmThe second largest armed force in Iraq has been the contractors the entire time since we invaded.
This doesn’t come as a surprise. It’s sick. But then everyone in the Bush Cabal are sick.
ITMFA!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:22 pmIn many ways it really is a free for all in Iraq anyways, the private military has been doing combat work for a while now.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:24 pmOutsourcing work that traditionally has been done by the Government, tells me that the Government is no longer capable of administering these programs.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:26 pmMaybe Blackwater can outsource it’s work back to the US military and then the military can bet paid more.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:28 pmMaybe Blackwater can outsource it’s work back to the US military and then the military can get paid more.
OH my god the liberals want to pay the US soldiers more money so they will be happier and feel supported by thier government.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:30 pmDidn’t the Romans hire some pre-blackwater dudes?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:30 pmRepubliKKKans, if you looooooooved the Ku Klux Klan, then you’ll looooooooooooooooooove the worst American militian army in the history, THE BLACKWATER GANG!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThe dude in the front of the photo looks like a weekend warrier.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:35 pmIts the A-Team
Hope they are taught the rules of war and can be held accountable for war crimes
March 30th, 2006 at 4:35 pmI say we privatize American private industry.
Think about it… we could remove everyone currently working in the private industry and replace them with new workers that would do the same jobs but for more money.
This could be a great backdoor approach for raising wages… Fanfreakintastic!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:36 pmMercenaries have no place in a democracy. For an alternative though admittedly controversial alternative, see:
March 30th, 2006 at 4:45 pm“Getting Drafty: A Hybrid Model of National Service.”
Soldier of Fortune magazine must REALLY love it. The US Army replace by the A-Team for hire.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:47 pmTime to replace Republican congressmen in order to end practices such as these. Armies for hire? What is this the middle ages?
And on that note…
John Sweeney out? Sandy Treadwell in?
Are Sweeney’s ethics and/or health problems enough to force him out of a re-election bid in NY-20?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:54 pm#36 you mean instead of bombing people, they’ll just shoot around their feet, and they get scared and run to their car to drive away but if flips and explodes in a big fireball but luckily everyone is thrown clear and no one is hurt?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:54 pmHow do you wage an open ended war without a daft… anyone? Buehler? Buehler?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:54 pm#39… we have all sorts of “daft” in the White House and in the Republican Congress!
March 30th, 2006 at 4:56 pmWhoops… Draft.
Very funny mistake and follow up though.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:04 pmWhat a vicious cycle. The US doesn’t pay the military enough to attract needed recruits, so they are forced to outsource at a much higher expense level, so the mercs^H^H^H^H^Hcontracters are able to recruit away the best and brightest with better salaries, thus reducing the manpower levels further, requiring more outsourcing, lather rinse repeat.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#20 — Refresh your memory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cofer_Black
March 30th, 2006 at 5:13 pmUsing the term ‘contractor’ makes it sound harmless… The truth is that mercenaries work for whoever pays. Now that the barriers have been broken down, look for news of “security contractors” hiring former members of death squads… Oh wait! that’s old news.
As far as our (U.S.) military; My Great Grandfather joined the ‘Iowa Volunteer Infantry’ in 1862… That was honest-to-goodness ‘all-volunteer’. Today it’s supposed to be a ‘Professional Military’. “All-Volunteer” is a handy term if you’re trying to sucker the population into support a war of aggression.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:18 pmJust out of curiosity, does congress do anything anymore? Did they even know about the Blackwater contract? Who’s making these deals?
March 30th, 2006 at 5:29 pmI bet some of those military families could have used that $1000 a day wage.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:31 pm#12
Who’s accountable? Think back to Abu Gharib. How many private contractors were held accountable in that disaster?
What are the rules regarding private contracting? What are the lines of accountablity? What happens to those who stray over the line?
I’ve asked those who have been in the military in Iraq? The people I’ve asked question what the private contractors were really doing in Iraq. In some ways…very shady.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:36 pmThe private contractors represent us as they work in other parts of the world. You’d think Congress would be a little more concerned than they are about who these contractors are and what the contractors are doing.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:42 pmThere is a whole bunch of people in India that would line up to join the outsourced army. This also gives the people like the guy in God of War a whole new set of opportunities. Hell, they’ll buy arms for cheap from the US and resell to the private armies.
Isn’t this the kind of shit that happens in Africa? Private armies! Now Bush has another source of blame.
God bless the private armies.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:43 pmAside from the grotesque fascism of Blackwater may I suggest that all employees of Blackwater or any like company be denied VA benefits.
Also, why do Blackwater employees always look like fat, dumb-fuck titty bar bouncers? Is that where they recruit?
March 30th, 2006 at 5:49 pmBlackwater, saying killing in Iraq is “fun” …
See http://dearkitty.modblog.com/?show=blogview&blog_id=538876&
March 30th, 2006 at 5:57 pm#30. Hillbilly. You know the answer is yes, many times. And, they were always easier to hire than fire. They often turned on their employers, changing sides in times of crisis or merely substituting a ruler of their choice for one they didn’t like.
March 30th, 2006 at 6:10 pmI don’t understand why we don’t give our military a hell of a lot more money. It’s not like they don’t earn it, and it would stem the tide of people trying to get out and help recruiting. Scrap a few lame-ass porkbarrell Air Force projects and suddenly our boys and girls are earning $150k a year. Why the hell not?
March 30th, 2006 at 6:37 pmThe second biggest force in Iraq has always been American Mercinaries, (sorry security contractors). And we’re paying for them to do job soldiers should be doing, but we’re paying them a hundred grand instead of what a soldier makes.
March 30th, 2006 at 6:40 pmNo. 52. FreeDumb. The author of the letter, John Singlaub, has been a professional terrorist at least since the Vietnam War. He was head of the World Anti-Communist League, an international organization composed of Nazi terrorists from Croatia, Serbia, Argentina, Uraguay, and various other countries, as well as the military wing of Sun Myung Moon’s Unification church and the Japanese Yakuza organized crime syndicate. He was deeply enmeshed in the terror campaigns of the Contras during the 80s against Nicaraguan civilians including nurses, doctors, and engineers, and was one of the criminals involved during those years in arming Iran (at that time a declared enemy of the United States) with US-made weapons, including TOW missiles. Beware!
March 30th, 2006 at 7:18 pmWe must be VERY careful here. Private armies are to often the guards for dictators such as Saddam and others like him. We in the US do not want an army that is just answering to the pResident. Our army should be protecting constitutional government and the people. Nor do we want a US sponsored corporate armies that enforces their control over other countries.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:35 pmYeh and I still have a copy of the AEGIS video showing the ‘[private]‘ security fomenting civil war by shooting civiians, driving cars, indiscriminately.
Yeh These guys are nothing but mercs.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:00 pm#
Maybe the Dems Can start a Help package for Family relocation outside of USA?
Comment by Free Dumb. Dumb to be free — March 30, 2006 @ 7:56 pm
America was built bu those whom wished Secularity. It’s you SIR thats devolved into the European model of Religious Zealots. It’s that Wilsoniaism that you Preach, that has cause this very War. How dare you say to those that died, before YOU were even born for this country, only to see it overrun by a bunch of Blairites. Yes Sir its people like you that America was created, I suggest you take your blood cult Christianity, lions and Gladiator crap and Join Blackwater. Be that Blood Hero.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:07 pmGo Boy. Go. Stab Shoot and kill, Take a Human Life,and when your Mind leaves you, and you go insane, you will wonder why?
And that is simple, because you took life and did not hold it dearly.
There is an upside to a private military. The true cost of war cannot be hidden when someone puts his life on the line for pay.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:34 pmThe event that lead to the destruction of Fallujah, was the killing of four of these “private contractors”. The “response” by our military was meant to serve as a warning, but only caused an escalation of violence, that continues to this day. Brilliant BushCo does it again. And there were Blackwater “contractors” in N.O., after Katrina, to “protect” the property of wealthy homeowners, as well as luxury Hotels, etc. They were all ‘armed’ for the task, also. And at the same time, N.O. residents were having their legally owned weapons confiscated, cause GWB said so. This crap scared me the first time I heard it. And nothing has changed.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:10 pmBlackwater USA: Ominous…
I know the world’s got some soldiers of fortune, but didn’t one used to have to live in Angola for that kind of action? …
March 30th, 2006 at 9:18 pmIf W and company are going into the mercenary business, our nation has fallen off the tracks. Mercenaries have compassion for their own lives but not those of others. Our founding fathers had shown distain for the imported Hessian soldiers in the War of Independence. Why should not the Iraqis show similar distain?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:09 pmDoes anyone else feel like we are living in a science fiction movie, a bad scary one?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:56 pmkay in L.A.
TV Junkie, actually I think private armies are first-class dumb. It may be their idea to do an end run around posse’ comitatus and accountability.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:30 pm#75 kay; It’s more like ‘the Twilight Zone’.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:32 pmI want to know how much of the money that was supposed to go to Katrina victims went to Blackwater. These people sat in the French Quarter until last month doing nothing. They commandeered a huge parking lot near the river, and set up tents that served food, beverage, and shelter to their people. But, again it’s not clear what they were doing for New Orleans the whole time they were here. And, it’s not clear how much they were paid for doing nothing.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:55 pmThey made a piddling $300 a day while patrolling the deserted streets of NOLA after Katrina and complained about it.
My heart bleeds for those murderous pricks. Really.
Btw, you ever get a comment on your blog that was so bizarre in its reasoning, so hateful and spiteful in its invective that it had to be answered in a separate post? I got such a comment today and I couldn’t help but give this asshole his fifteen minutes of fame.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:08 amRomes unloyal hired armies ended up ravaging Rome. Is there any bad part of history these guys do NOT want to repeat?
March 31st, 2006 at 12:21 amAre these Blackwater guys still ‘hangin’around that bridge in Falluja?
March 31st, 2006 at 2:53 amis there a nice euphemism for the word ‘death’…………
OK
dissolution to blackwater and all in it and all who support it. It is unamerican, anti-republic- pro-fascist pro-empire and a piece of shit.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:39 amoh, and we better get weapons and be prepared to do what the original colonists had to do. It is gonna come to that. Don’t be fooled into complacency. It will be that or the death camps. Which would you prefer?
March 31st, 2006 at 5:49 amBy contracting private military armies, what is to stop corporations from waging overt acts of war against rival businesses in other countries? International Law? The American trifecta of politics has chosen to shun International Law, or even to act in spite of it. American law supersedes all others, even when operating outside the borders of America (rendition, detention, etc…) Will these mercenary groups be protected by American laws? Will the Military Code of Justice and the Geneva Convention apply at all? What type of “corporate accountability” will there be? Who will dictate the actions of these mercenaries? Who will be held responsible when innocent people die? Let’s not forget that there is a fine line between a terrorist and a mercenary. It is simply a matter of perspective. Has America already crossed that line?
March 31st, 2006 at 5:56 amJust on Merc armies, wasn’t the Taliban/al Queda on the CIA payroll for a time…
March 31st, 2006 at 6:20 amIts pure Murder For Hire and the extra training is to go into Iran and Kill Kill Kill for the big oil and call it Demoracry On The March. Hows the Dicatorship in America? Oh its just fine and dandy the curfew at 7pm is wonderful .Oh and our paychecks we love the fact that we’re working for free and we are secure and that’s the most important thing in Amerika.
What Consitution? We have gwbush’s new cons-titution. Blackwater on Every Street and the christian church of james dobson is the national religon.
We have tunnels under our house to worship our cultures religon like Muslim,Judiasm, Shinto,Hinduism but we are a happy lot with gw bush in charge ….
March 31st, 2006 at 6:46 amLet the Oil Cartels hire the Blackwater Mercenary Army at their expense to hold onto the Iraqi Oil Fields, then our American troops can come home immediately! No more US troops killed so Big Oil can make more profits!
March 31st, 2006 at 7:07 amHey Michiganders: take a close look at who owns Blackwater. None other than our dear Betsy DeVos’ brother. Do you want her as first lady of Michigan?
March 31st, 2006 at 7:14 amI’ve never laughed so much in all my life. Fat white men with DOOM III style guns are your next big thing. There’s no hope for Americans. I bet there are THOUSANDS of volunteers. Zillions of sweaty, earnest men in Matrix-style dark glasses eagerly puffing up off the couch, practising their Ninja moves, ready to enrol. ROFLMA.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:05 amThere is nothing new about private armies. Multi-nationals use them to run some of eht African countries they plunder. There is litle or no chance of the US “privatizing” the military but you can bet that the NSA continues to make use of these privateers for the most brutal tasks imaginable. That way they can honestly say the our military “wasn’t involved” in those acts.
Reagan made much use of mercenaries back in the ’80s and it seems to be a repug M.O. to use them as well as to set up and back death squad regimes.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:07 amI suppose this lays the groundwork for the first “corporate war” – say contractor for Blackwater vs. contractor for Triple Canopy? I see private armies more in demand for the super rich as the world spins further out of control and public security can no longer protect the interests of the greedy corporate rich.
Yes, I’m all in favor of having oil companies hire these bastards for their dirty work like Jay said, but privatizing “dirty work” won’t make the US look any better in the world’s eyes.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:52 amSo when these guys are captured by their adversaries (how can a corporate army really hava an enemy) I guess they can be considered ‘enemy combatants” by whomever captures them since they aren’t part of the military and as such the Geneva Conventions and the rules of War won’t protect them. Also, there’s nothing stopping the host country from simply arresting these people if they so choose.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:59 amI’ve seen some videos of these Blackwater guys in Najaf taken in ‘05 I think, they were ordering Marines around and generally acting like a bunch of jackasses while killing lots and lots of people. Like others have said these guys don’t seem to be under any kind of orders or held accountable for what they do. Also during the videos I heard the N-word and “spic” used at least a dozen times by some tool with blond highlights who was doing the filming.
I doubt very much that actions such as these are helping the war effort, this isn’t the wild west and we can’t be sending cowboys to represent us around the world when we are trying to win hearts and minds.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:20 amTroops are cannon fodder. Always were, always will be. The US played things pretty smart during WWI and WWII by letting other nations loose millions of men and much of their fighting power before entering. This privatization will free up some firepower and get it further away from congressional oversight. The only problem is that these wars are ours from the start and now we are the ones taking on heavy losses in the early years. A few more wars and more casualties and resources wasted and eventually the next superpower will seize the opportunity and then our textbooks and next constitution will be written in some foreign country and we will be the cheap supply of labor for the rest of the world.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:29 amI’ve seen some videos of these Blackwater guys in Najaf taken in ‘05 I think, they were ordering Marines around and generally acting like a bunch of jackasses
I would like to see a Marine give those ass holes an attitude adjustment.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:47 amNow do you see the neocons’ (L’il Dick and the gang’s) REAL INTENTIONS?
…to make the U.S. military the PRIVATE ARMY for his RICH co-conspirators…
…TRAIN ‘em using taxpayer dollars, then steal them away with lucrative PRIVATE CONTRACTS…
Make NO mistake…
…they’re murdering Iraqis today…
…but the RICH RIGHT WING al CRACKER heathens will use them to…
..KILL poor/middle working class AMERICANS- who attempt to protest against unfair wages and other corrupt REICH WING policies- tomorrow…
…YOU”VE been WARNED!
March 31st, 2006 at 10:09 amHey #17 and #11
March 31st, 2006 at 11:05 amIt like the “Voluntary Compliance” used as the lie for you to sign your 1040 form. You volunteer the information or you get prosecuted for not volunteering it. Very simple, but it is consodered volunteering if you call the IRS. It is a very fun call to make. They just talk in circles, and then when you bring up the 5th Constitution and the 5th amendment, they say, well if you are going to speak of the Constitutution then we have no comment.
Oh the web we ahve weaved.
So, then any rich fat cat, can hire these immoral mercenaries to kill whomever they wish…like a Precedent?
This is terrifying. There’s another word for “private-sector military contractor,” and that word is “militia.” I think people who lived in Lebanon in the 1980s could weigh in on what militias tend to do in a crisis.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:46 pmMercenaries get paid well to kill or be killed > remember that Bush ordered Fallujah, Iraq, destroyed because the citizens of that city murdered about 4 Blackwater goons and then burned their bodies, hanging the remains from a bridge! Also Blackwater assassins were sent into New Orleans to murder some of the blacks who survived the floods! Mercs are ruthless thugs who love killing, so I do feel sorry for the Iraqis who they are terrorizing! If Blackwater goons are allowed to patrol American streets and cities, then revolution is going to happen and be bloody too?!
March 31st, 2006 at 1:30 pmEEEEK, the owner of Blackwater is the ‘puke candidate of MI’s bro-in-law? Sheee-it, thought as head of Amway, DeVos couldn’t get any worse.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:48 amMaybe we can hire Blackwater to paint that bridge in Fallujah.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:53 amI have read the comments on this String. I see lot of ignorance in some of the remarks made by contributors. Some remakes even border on blind stupidity that is a result of apathy and indifference. It is very obvious that very few are capable of a serious discussion on the US Military and what America stands for. I would like to see people on this forum deny this fact. The American citizen soldier has been the most effective force in history that can go into combat against an enemy and when the war is over go back into a normal free society and be a good law abiding citizen. I defy anyone in America to condemn an American soldier unless he has walked a mile in soldier’s shoes that has a combat badge.
All of this symbolic sympathy about supporting or not supporting our troops is a bunch of old codswallop. In about 1990 only about 15% of the general population joined the military. I am not sure but I think it is even less by now. This small percentage get it and support protect and serve. These are our soldiers and will always be there and have always been there when their country needed them. It does not matter what a bunch of malevolent pissants think. It does not matter what a bunch of pusillanimous media motor mouths think. It does not mater what intellectual elitist and limousine liberals think. What maters is these men and women will be there when the alarm is sounded to defend the country and the flag that you so happily deface and abuse.
Blackwater is a good thing
April 1st, 2006 at 9:41 pmI have read the comments on this String. I see lot of ignorance in some of the remarks made by contributors. Some remakes even border on blind stupidity that is a result of apathy and indifference. It is very obvious that very few are capable of a serious discussion on the US Military and what America stands for. I would like to see people on this forum deny this fact. The American citizen soldier has been the most effective force in history that can go into combat against an enemy and when the war is over go back into a normal free society and be a good law abiding citizen. I defy anyone in America to condemn an American soldier unless he has walked a mile in soldier’s shoes that has a combat badge.
All of this symbolic sympathy about supporting or not supporting our troops is a bunch of old codswallop. In about 1990 only about 15% of the general population joined the military. I am not sure but I think it is even less by now. This small percentage get it and support protect and serve. These are our soldiers and will always be there and have always been there when their country needed them. It does not matter what a bunch of malevolent pissants think. It does not matter what a bunch of pusillanimous media motor mouths think. It does not mater what intellectual elitist and limousine liberals think. What maters is these men and women will be there when the alarm is sounded to defend the country and the flag that you so happily deface and abuse.
Blackwater is a good thing
April 1st, 2006 at 9:41 pmSorry about the double post I am A nube.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:45 pmS. Corbin
#103- You appear to have missed the main issue while you were chastising us. Allow me to illuminate it for you. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the U.S. Military. This is about a PRIVATE COMPANY that offers the “services” of “PAID Contractors” to perform different tasks in Iraq, for LOTS of money, and they are not subject to the same rules and regulations as the U.S. Military. So they are given jobs like “interrogating” prisoners at various facilities. Cause they are special. And it is beyond disrespectful to the Service members of the U.S. So before you lecture us on our “ignorance”, perhaps you could be more aware of what the actual point really is. But welcome to TP.
April 2nd, 2006 at 4:39 am“Blackwater is a good thing”
Good for who exactly? And, do us a favor and illuminate us on what Blackwater has to do with the U.S. Military. Go ahead nube — explain away.
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:41 pmMaybe Blackwater mercenaries can buy that bridge in Falluja.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:22 amAs far as Blackwater, it is cheaper to pay a civilian soldier (mercenary by your words)
Than a soldier in the US army. It costs about $125,000. Dollars a year to train and maintain, feed and support a regular infantry soldier in peacetime. To bring a soldier through special training such as Special Forces and Navy Seal training is about another $125,000 to $200,000 a year. To support a single troop in a combat zone can be another $100,000 to $500,000 a year depending on the intensity of combat.
Mercenaries cost about $125,000 apiece and are paid $45,000 to $75,000 a year and then a per diem allowance according to the intensity of the conflict area they work in (once out of combat zone per diem stops). The per diem is a charge that is added on to the contract $125,000 that a company like Blackwater gets for that trooper. The people are already trained and therefore minimum training expense is required. The special forces of the world have a huge amount of these well trained people that are available to the civilian enforcers without weakening their forces. The Special Forces like fresh new blood, 30 years old ain’t so fresh and 35 is over the hill. A 40 year old professional soldier that is in first class shape is a very dangerous animal indeed. The job does not include great benefits or retirement Percs. The seemingly large pay is for you to provide your own Percs and investment in your future. If you don’t make it don’t matter.
These soldiers have very strict rules of engagement and are responsible to the government of the United States. The problem is that this type of soldier group cannot perform what a platoon size regular military unit can do in actual combat situation. Where mercenaries are effective is in shadow wars and terrorist or insurgent situations such as we now face in Iraq. They are better at protecting Generals and high ranking Officials because they have only one purpose and that is to protect their charge. They have no problem killing a soldier, a policeman, or another official that is a threat to their charge. A soldier can not do that.
You black helicopter dinks need to know that Blackwater employees do not interrogate prisoners. Those civialians are CIA employees. I happen to support their efforts because they keep a bunch of mealeymouth candyasses free and safe.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:19 pmJust for your information.
The blackwater people that were murdered in fallujah happen to have recently served in the US Special Forces. They were Americans working for the US Government helping our war efforts by protecting convoys and should be given the same respect as regulars. Most of the people involved in the battle of bunker hill were civalian American volenteers. I would think that some of you should be a bit realistic about making stupid comments like. “wondering if those guys are still hanging around”. You have to ask yourself if you are an American or just a dumb punk with a bad attitude.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:16 pmCorbin,more people might defend them if they weren’t upholding GWBs immoral war in Iraq.
April 3rd, 2006 at 9:20 pmGURU
I don’t know of any war in history that was moral. The War in Iraq is an American War. If you cannot see the connection in fighting terrorism on their ground and not here you need to get better educated on world polotics. The mistake that the Bush administration made was bite off more than the American public can handle. We have too many Summer soldiers in America. The inbread Washington Government does not have the guts to be ruthless enough to win aginst fanatical islamic fundamentalists. You cannot blame George Bush for the inepitude and years of incompetance in our State Department.
SSC
April 4th, 2006 at 12:25 amCorbin:
April 4th, 2006 at 1:08 amYou’re repeating the tired BushCo.company line.Because we’re fighting them there does not mean they can’t or w’ont hit us here.As a matter of fact it gives more incentive.Dude,we lost atleast 13 soldiers this month alone;and it’s just barely the 4th.They are Americans too.We’ve doubled our 9/11 deaths:for what?Chaos.
If the 4 morons that were hung from a bridge in Fallujah were ex- Special Forces, they were the stupidest ones we ever trained.
Take your fascist ass over to Iraq and get some first hand knowledge instead of talking about things you know nothing off except from your talking points.
April 4th, 2006 at 7:03 amBlackwater thugs should stay away from bridges.
April 4th, 2006 at 1:05 pmContract out responsiblity
Contract out authority
Contract out ACCOUNTABILITY
April 7th, 2006 at 10:49 amYou’ve got it Mike O..
April 8th, 2006 at 1:14 amGrannus, i’ve been to Iraq 3 times and made it home safe and sound every time, just like the 130,000 plus American military and civilian men and women who are stationed there. To date, we have lost less than 2,500 men and women since Oct. 2001. If you look at numbers, that’s about a tenth of the people we lost in Vietnam! And much less than the Korean War average.
April 10th, 2006 at 10:05 pmLook at the numbers. more than 97% make it back without a scratch. One casualty is a lot but if you compared present number to other wars in the past, we ARE DOING A LOT BETTER.
Those 4 Blackwater fatalities were shot down! Civilian passengers in airliners get shot down! Anybody can get shot down!! Do you understand? Air transport is the quickest most reliable means we have. The top 10 countries in the world with the best armed forces USE HELOS FOR TRANSPORT. the assassin who shot down the helo sat in the desert for 3 days and waited for the liftoff before he fired his RPG. This could only be done when the adversary has good intel and the resolve to accomplish the mission. Did you ever wonder why the french had everything on video right from the start? This unfortunate incident could happen to anyone over there, civilian or military. This kind of casualty happens all the time. Even worse, innocent women and children get caught in the crossfire. If those BW people were on the ground, on patrol, the results wouldve been different. I can tell by your trend of thought that you are neither a warrior or a person with common sense. You never served in the military because you do not have the intestinal fortitude. Its easy for you to sit back behind your computer and say stupid things like you do because you are STUPID. What do you know about warfare? youre a fucking pussy!!
B.J.; I don’t believe a word you just said,#1.#2 get your facts straight;those 4 Blackwater guys were pulled out of a S.U.V..# 3.How dare you compare this war to any past conflict.This war is a conjob concocted by Dick Cheney et.al.for obvious reasons,and they are not good.# 4.The war started March 2003 not Oct. 01.Losing 2400 soldiers,dead;18,ooo wounded;atleast 50,000 Iraqi dead for this conjob war is not DOING A LOT BETTER by any one’s metric.
April 11th, 2006 at 2:31 amYou can hide behind General Pershing’s name;but I Don’t believe for a minute that you’ve been in the military.Buzz off.
Lol, during the Vietnam war,I was doing some major protesting myself and i’m,
But fuck, most people(like at the very least 75%) here are not even half open minded! You guys are complete dumbasses!
Peace.
April 13th, 2006 at 1:25 pmits like “geez,Karl Marx told us that chocolate give Cancer,therefore we will not eat chocolate anymore”
Don’t get me wrong I like Karl Marx too! only I don’t parrot retarded stuff like “I bet a marine would kill a few of those assholes”,
“Those 4 contractors were the dumbest we’ve ever trained”,
“why don’t you get to Iraq see what it looks like on the ground!!!!!”
…safely behind a computer screen.
ROFL.
Peace.
April 13th, 2006 at 1:31 pm…’safely behind a computer screen’;That includes you too HIPPY. What’s with Karl Marx?Did he use crystal meth like you?
April 14th, 2006 at 1:58 amHey dude, i’m not the one making dumb comments like the ones above,
I am a dude behind a computer screen fact,but I don’t make stupid comments about “how its like on the ground” or “these 4 contractors were n00bish corporate fascists”/whatever. BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW,I DON’T PULL STUFF OUT OF MY ASS.
And what’s wrong with crystal meth? I see this year after year,
April 14th, 2006 at 3:22 pmyou youngsters are becoming like the Chickenhawk Republican fascists in the White House. Always telling people what to do, yet never having the balls to try it themselves before supporting or criticizing. HA!
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This is simple.I will like you to provide immediately your full names and address so that the Attorney will prepare the necessary documents which will put you in place as the as the owner of the boxes. The money will be moved out for us to share in the ratio of 70% for me and 30% for you. There is no risk at all as all the paperwork for this transaction will be done by the Attorney and this will guarantees the successful execution of this transaction. If you are interested, please reply immediately via my email address Upon your response, I shall then provide you with more details and relevant documents that will help you understand the transaction. Please observe utmost confidentiality, and rest assured that this transaction would be most profitable for both of us because I shall require your assistance to invest my share in your country.(Buying of properties like houses,hotels etc) Please do send me your private/mobile telephone fax number so that we can have a smooth communication. Thanks and regards
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April 14th, 2006 at 3:52 pmZenith Bank
International Plc.
How can you joke about the loss of four mens lives? These guys had families who deserve a little more respect than that of the comment posted here. Most contractors have spent half their lives making next to nothing in the military. How can you blame them for jumping at the chance to make decent money using the skills they gained in the service? These guys arent murderers, they are people trying to make a living with a set of skills that used to be less than marketable. Being a contractor myself, its upsetting to be called a merc and a blood thirsty killer. Im a husband and a father who is trying to provide for my family the best way i know how. Having been to both Iraq and Afghanistan i can tell you most contractors pray they never have to use their weapons. You can generalize all you want, but untill you have been there, i dont think your comment carry much weight.
April 15th, 2006 at 12:01 am# 124 James Brown:Are you fucking crazy? Go to Hell!
April 15th, 2006 at 3:48 amFrom someone in the all volunteer army how many of you making lame comets have even been in the military? Most of the skills we learn in the military are not applicable outside the military. The military is not held in such high esteem as it used to be. Many people look at ex-military as people that could not handle the real world and a real job so they joined the military. Organizations like Blackwater employ ex-soldiers to do the job that they know how to do. They must have an honorable discharge and no felony conviction for anything. Paying the military more would be nice but some folks already consider us “paid mercenaries”(was in a post on this thread). Blackwater is just filling a nich if it didn’t exist some other company would eventually do the same thing. Instead of bashing them think about the soldiers you want to support. They are the ones working for Blackwater AFTER they have served their country in a way still serving there country so the like of some of you can set around and complain. Try joining the military and supporting the troops that way. Oh can’t handle it? Stop whining.
April 18th, 2006 at 10:49 amIt sounds like a lot of liberals are pissed off when they don’t understand that these contractors are the only reason they are not being drafted. When the military needs people and can’t get them to sign open ended contracts the jobs get privatized and wages increase to give experienced operators a reason to sign up for what they know is happening. It takes a lot of money to get people to truly volunteer to go face bombs, snipers and ambushes. The Army is lucky that 18 year olds are naieve. Were it not for them we would not have a military today.
April 26th, 2006 at 7:12 pmI sit here resding your strings and it makes me pitty some of you people. 1st all of you that served as an Special Ops. soldier please stand up. Oh, sorry you can’t because that require getting off your asses and do something besides bitch. Here is a quick education.
Here is what you do and what you get for 20 years in special Ops. Basic Training 10wks, Combat Communications School 6mn, Airborne School 3wks, Ranger Schools 4mn, PLDC 5wks, Special Forces Qualifications Course 4wks, SERE School 4wks (where they beat the hell out fo you so you have an idea what will happen if captured), BNOC 5-6wks, Special Forces School 8mns to 2 yrs (depending on your job), Arabic Language School 8mns, Persian Language School 8mns, Freefall Parachute School 2mns, Scuba School 8wks, ANOC 3mns, Assorted Shooting schools 3 mns. An there is about another 24 mns of assorted schools to attend along the way.
Now we stayed deployed on average on my team for about 320 days out of the year. Could be gone 6 months, 3 months, 3 weeks, or maybe just one week. Then come home clean your gear and be ready to deploy in another few days. There are no family plains, birthdays. or vacation to schedule. On top of this our divorce rate is about 90%.
Next lets talk about physical issues. Most of us because of working in 3rd World for most of our young adult life get a chance to catch many exotic illnesses. Most of my team had Malaria, exposed to TB and had to go through treatment, contracted an assortment of fungus and rashes. Ok now where on to the broken bones, bullet wounds and assorted fragmentation. Then there is the natural wear and tear after you do this for 16 to 20 years.
After the end of twenty years if all goes well, your take home pay is about $2,700.00 a month. Now don’t forget your broken, worn out, divorced and your only friends are the people you have been working with that are still alive. So now you go hey its time to retire if uncle sam will let you. Lets say he says ok. After taxes you take home if lucky about $1000.00 bucks a month.
As you sit there wondering what will I do now. So as most do you ask yourself what do I know how to do. At his point thank goodness for companies like blackwater that will hire you if you can still do your job in a proficent manner. So some youg Special Ops. guys see this going on and think. They ask themselves. You know I love this job with all my heart and want to help the greater good, but damn at the end of 20 years no money and no life is that for me or should I take the $150,000 to $200,000 to do the same job.
Well my friends there is the issues. If you have not done this job please do not comment because you have no grounds or right. You have no idea what it takes or what is sacraficed along the way. Those of us and damn few of us do this job because we want to do more and volunteer for this additional work. Not one of us ever asked, questioned or told you live a different or for that fact get a life. So how about you just sit home bang your girl or boyfriend, tap on your keyboard and leave us, and the next generation of Special Ops. soldiers to do the work. The worst thing of all is you make comments and judgements about things you know not. Once again if you do not live the life you have no idea. One last word of caution. Every place I go you hear somebody say my cousion, my brother, my daddy or I was in a Special Ops unit. Hell if that was the case there would be no shortage of people in the units. Unless you were a Seal, Green Beret, a Ranger in a Ranger BN, in Delta, very specific Air Force unit, very specific Marine unit and handful of other units that most of you never have or will hear of, YOU OR WHO YOU NEW WAS NOT IN SPECIAL OPS.
So either stop talking about things you do not know or get off your ass take the years to go through it all and then tell us what you think.
Frank
April 27th, 2006 at 3:19 amU.S. Army Special Forces Retired
Private contractors are cheaper than the military. Private contractors are more skilled and professional than most of the military. This is why we use them, besides everyone is crying why we dont send the troops home. So this is a reasonable solution.
May 3rd, 2006 at 5:25 amAmericas solution to the Geneva Convention !
May 3rd, 2006 at 7:29 amAmericas solution to the Geneva Convention ! Dyncorp Rules !!
May 3rd, 2006 at 7:30 amDon’t panic. The sky is not falling. Private companies usually operate a lot more efficiently than government agencies. I would bet the taxpayer is getting a bargain by hiring these guys, even at $1,000 per day. The reporting on this site is very one-sided (has anyone noticed?). Journalists used to get scolded by editors if they came in with only one side of the story.
May 15th, 2006 at 7:42 pmThis is the beginning of the American foreign legion. A multinational army based in America and able to support America’s interests abroad while also being able to operate independantly. The French have been doing this for a hundred years. Why the big stink? They make more than troops because their job is more technically advanced. Not better, per say, just different. I dont know a single operator that makes more than 500 a day. But dont get in a hissie about that either… we are classified as “Independent Contractors” so we still have to pay taxes on that 500. It adds up. Most operators understand that it is the American soldier, sailor, Marine and airman that does all the hard work. We also know that we were there too! So, everybody, just relax a bit. At least if the legion is sent in and a few of us die, you dont have to worry too much. We are all grown men who know what we are getting ourselves into. Nuff said.
May 17th, 2006 at 4:46 amHey,Here’s an idea.Build a wall”to keep illegal immigrants out”, get KBR a Halliburton subsidiary to build “faciilities for detention in case of a large immigrant influx OR the IMPLIMENTATION OF NEW PROGRAMS”,hire mercinary thugs to do our dirty work and then cry TERRORIST THREAT, MARTIAL LAW and we could make all those pesky illegal immigrants, dissidents and reporters go away and tell everyone else if they believe that they are anti American an PARANOID>>>What ya say Mr Cheney
May 24th, 2006 at 7:32 pmExactly, thats why I live in Slovakia ! Theres no immigrant situation and the hot chicks put out !
May 28th, 2006 at 1:00 amblackwater i give u two thumbs up kill them all
June 5th, 2006 at 11:03 pmblackwater i give u two thumbs up kill them all
June 5th, 2006 at 11:03 pmAs a former enlisted member of the military I know about the crappy pay scale , and it is hard to blame these guys for actually making a profit as they market their skills. However, private armies for hire are a very scary proposition. We as Americans, at least in theory, have some say, however small, in how our military is used. It would seem that in the case of these private armies, the highest bidder could use these armies as he would see fit. As large corporations rake in oscene amounts of capital this is a scary proposition indeed.
July 2nd, 2006 at 2:17 pmAs a former enlisted member of the military I know about the crappy pay scale , and it is hard to blame these guys for actually making a profit as they market their skills. However, private armies for hire are a very scary proposition. We as Americans, at least in theory, have some say, however small, in how our military is used. It would seem that in the case of these private armies, the highest bidder could use these armies as he would see fit. As large corporations rake in obscene amounts of capital this is a scary proposition indeed.
July 2nd, 2006 at 2:18 pmMilitary contractors/Mercenaries are admirable individuals to say the least. The profession goes back to ancient times, its nothing new. The Flying Tigers, The British East-India Co., Lafayette Escadrille, Foreign Legion and in fact the Roman Legions are to name but a few. All you miserable malcontents who do nothing but whine and complain about “the system”, the Gov., war, etc. should really just shut-up, wise up and these men do their jobs. Perhaps you’d prefer to let “insurgents” win. If we didn’t have persons on the ground over there, the ones we’re fighting would be here causing problems. Think about that the next time you’re sitting outside your favorite Starbucks and having to worry about the minivan parked in front of being rigged w/ explosives intended to kill you and all those around you. Wise the hell up and look at the big picture.
July 7th, 2006 at 1:12 pmYour average Independent Security Contractor (IC) is your neighbor. He lives a modest life, is married, has two kids and pays his (or her) taxes. They are almost exclusively prior military and have served their country with honor (they did their time). They enter a world with a specific skill set which does’nt have much application in the real world. Organizations like Blackwater, DynCorp, Tripple Canopy etc provide this person with a means to utilize that skill set in a real world scenario. Wether it be PSD (Private security detail) in Iraq or crime supression and restoration of order in a storm ravaged US city, these people are again provided the catalyst to honorably serve their country. Please do not dishonor this person under the title of (Mercenary), it is not considered flattering or cool, it is not appreciated. Some of the finest men and women I have ever had the honor of knowing I have encountered as a an IC. They are a proud and honorable bunch, they are patriots and good Americans. Give them a chance and they’ll make you proud. I guarantee it.
July 9th, 2006 at 10:40 ami will be waiting for your appointment letter vary soon.
September 11th, 2006 at 1:22 pmsend it to my address below:
22 oremeji street, off ilaje road, bariga, lagos state, nigeria.
thanks for your co-operation.
yours sincerely
ikechukwu ezima.
You are very excited and thats good for kids. But you know nothing. Stop following the herd and thinking by TV commercials. If you had any ovaries you’d be in Iraq as a weponless medic- you could still be non combative, but trully fight WAR as it happens. BTW- military fems and mens arent political. The only differance between Dems and Repubs is how to pay for stuff. If they have souls.
Slogans, name calling and polularity contests based on herd mentality were shitty in the 6th grade, but some haven’t bothered to grow. You would have been great Nazi’s- Thats what you are, have a rally call more names dehumanize others- promote your hate over the shariring of learing.
Stalin would have loved you. Don’t you know that your kind of red left, on the political circle, swings around to perverted right and becomes totalitariqanism? Ask cambodia or East Germany.
you have never been anywhere, done nothing, you know nothing. You are not valid- Come back when you’ve raised a woman from pink snow pea to teen ager, when you’ve fought from cold war to the friggin urinal last night- the line was so long.
You can have opinions- but why so loud? Why not put “seems? in a sentence, or what do ya’ll think, best- go where others, not fevered idiots, could be differnent in thier thinking, and ask “with respect- why are you so wrong?” laugh, buy a beer and listen.
It also gets you laid in forgien countries, do you know what laid with a woman is?puberty is past right- i’m hoping , we can’t tell by your thinking.
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You guys seriously dont know what these men do. They are hired for a reason. These men augment the military and do immoral things that can burden them psychologically for the rest of their lives. Thats why the wages are so high. If it keeps terrorism at bay, Im losing no sleep over it.
November 30th, 2006 at 1:50 amFor 1 I’m tired of every1 getting all sorts of butthurt because military personnel want a little more money for the jobs they do. I’m active duty military getting ready to get out, I have Military Police training, S.R.T. training, and infantry training. Where can I use that? on a small town swat team that I have to be a beat cop for two years just to test for? I don’t think so. If these guys will give me a chance I’ll work for them, and I’ll continue to fight for my country. How many of you pricks have whatched your friends die and then come back to the states to see that cnn only sees what we do wrong. Pay back is comin ladies, and mothers of america and all you hippy freaks will soon reap what you sew when these guns for hire are the only ones here to protect you when we’re all off fighting wars. We’re grown ass men we can do good and damn well what we please. and get paid to do it. Walk in our shoes and get paid the crap that we do and put up with the shit that we do from day 2 day. then tell us that we are wrong for seeking higher pay.
December 6th, 2006 at 2:21 pmIf you can’t stand behind your troops then feel free to stand in front of them.
Everyone should read Gerry spences’ book “from freedom to slavery.”
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:57 pmthis is corporate America at its best.
wheres the accountability?
Good luck and be safe to ALL Blackwater!!!!!!!!!!
January 24th, 2007 at 11:08 amHow Do I contact Blackwater to join?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:15 am