John Podhoretz Attacks Jill Carroll
John Podhoretz Attacks Jill Carroll
Today, Christian Science Monitor reporter Jill Carroll released after three months of being held in captivity in Iraq by kidnappers. The National Review’s John Podhoretz responded by attacking her mental state:
It’s wonderful that she’s free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn’t beaten or killed — while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is — I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.
This is a day that we should celebrate Jill Carroll’s courage. She put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq. It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
UPDATE: Imus Executive Producer: Carroll is “The Kind of Woman Who Would Wear One of Those Suicide Vests, Sneak Into the Green Zoneâ€
UPDATE II: Andrew Sullivan agrees JPod was out of line.
UPDATE III: Right-wing author and blogger Orrin Judd says Carroll’s comments prove “she was a willing participant” in her own kidnapping.
UPDATE IV: Powerline’s John Hinderaker joins in: “…I want to register a small protest against her statement, widely quoted in the press, that she was ‘well treated’ by her captors. This is a sentiment that one often hears from people who have been released by kidnappers; one gets the sense that the victims are grateful–understandably, perhaps–to the terrorists for letting them go.”
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Wow, that was fast.
Operation Yellow Elephant continues…
March 30th, 2006 at 9:58 amThis ain’t very nice of me, but I kind of wish they had kidnapped John Podperson instead.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:00 amThis is a day that we should celebrate Jill Carroll’s courage. She put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq. It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
Nonsense, she was just another anti-war agitator kissing up to the poor victims of American aggression and crapping on the graves of American servicemen killed in action. Of course she wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:01 amJill is an American hero.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:02 amJohn is a tired old Reichwingnut.
Welcome back, Jill!
We need someone like Jill as our
Secretary of State.
You know, someone who can actually
talk with people of other cultures instead
of appearing on 3 different Sunday news
shows at the same time and never saying
anything true or accurate.
What the hell? Aren’t these morons always whining about how the media never tells us all the “good news” in Iraq, then when there is good news, they flip flop it? My brain freaking hurts! Must…drink…alcohol.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:03 amStockholm Syndrome. Know what that is? It doesn’t matter if Carroll would want to tell the truth, Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological condition that will alter the truth in your head. John Podhoretz isn’t attacking her, he is speculating that people will be talking about Stockholm Syndrome because of what she has said. Kind of like saying, when Cheney shot his friend in the face, that people are going to talk about resignation or even manslaughter. That’s perfectly legitimate, and hey, that also happened. People did speculate on whether Cheney’s friend was going to die, and whether Cheney would step down.
Pointing out the obvious, that someone is going to say something soon, is not an “attack”. How starved for material are you people?
I guess the whole “FISA Judges Say Bush Had Authority For Surveillance” doesn’t really fly around here, so you’re stuck with creating smoke where there is no fire.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:05 amPodhoretz is using the Bill Frist video diagnostic technique and we all know how well that works. I happy she’s safe!
March 30th, 2006 at 10:06 amFORGET ABOUT WHAT “J POD” OWES JILL; I THINK WE OWE “J POD” SOMETHING. LET’S ALL CHIP IN AND GET THE POD A TICKET TO BAGDHAD! WHY CRITICIZE FROM “THE CORNER” WHEN YOU CAN PUT YOURSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR TO GET A STORY?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:12 amI see the Bush trolls are on this story like flies to tackpaper > lol. She got released alive and everyone should be happy, but I think the Bushites wanted her head cut-off probably?!
March 30th, 2006 at 10:12 amPodhoretz:
“If Jill Carroll says how horrible her captors were and how right George Bush was to launch the war, the she’a hero.”
“If she’ says anything other than that, ignore her. Stockholm Syndrome. You can’t trust her to tell the truth about her capivity, because she got unhinged.”
“You can trust me, however, because I’m six thousand miles away in my office.”
March 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amIRI, I’m still waiting for you to get your “patriotic” ass over to Iraq and file a first-hand personal report for us.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:18 am#3 Of course [Jill Carroll] wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
So you want to kill and torture her, Mr. Reich-between-the-eyes?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:18 amWONDER WHAT SHE’D LOOK LIKE IF SHE JUST CAME OUT OF ABU GHRAIB?
SHE WOULDN’T HAVE COME OUT?
OH, YEAH, RIGHT…….
March 30th, 2006 at 10:19 amWould Podhoretz and the trolls here be more satisfied if Carroll were beheaded?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:20 amRegardless of whether or not you support her being there, is it too much to ask for a little compassion from the cold and heartless conservatives? I guess when you have ice in your veins and are a rabid Republican, this would be the reaction.
YOU’RE RIGHT. I’M AN IDIOT.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:20 amAnother example of right wing backlash from the media’s reporting of “good news” from Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:22 amNonsense, she was just another anti-war agitator kissing up to the poor victims of American aggression and crapping on the graves of American servicemen killed in action. Of course she wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
You tell them, IRI. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they should have cut off her fucking head, huh?
But as a journalist for the Christian Science Moniter, wasn’t she trying to report on all the GOOD news Bush and Cheney and other conservatives complain that go unreported by the mainstream media?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:22 am#7 You know exactly what he is doing. He, like most repubs these days, is beginning a preemptive semi-attack just in case he doesn’t like what she says. He is merely covering all bases. What a joke.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:23 amYALL THINK YER SO SMARTY PANTZ. YER STOOPID. YOU LIBS. ARE GRATE LEEDER NOS EXACTLIE WHAT HE IS DOIN. YOU DONT NO NOTHIN.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am#16 Yes, you are.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am#18 exactly, she was out in the streets unlike people like Laura Ingrham. Being out in the streets looking for those stories got her kidnapped.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:26 am#3 I agree, Christians are full of it.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:26 amSo she was liberated because the GOP has stopped the last great military operation? Maybe the GOP is appeasing the therrrrrrists?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:27 amHow much did we PAY to get her back? were her keepers off premesis too.We are living in Oceana.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:32 amYou got it right, #22.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I bet Laura Ingraham is pissed. Her recent Iraqi trip to interview the Commanding Genearal in the safety of the Green Zone being upstaged by this little gal’s release after 3 months in captivity.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:33 amCarroll Released, Wingnuts Attack…
You’d think people would be happy that Christian Science Monitor reporter Jill Carroll has been released, and reports that she wasn’t mistreated during her captivity in Iraq. But some people already have a problem with it.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:35 amToday, Christian …
A young Christian woman
Was given a new pair of shoes.
They were made of cowhide
And needn’t tying or polishing.
She wore them for days on end,
Obediently walking in tow
For what seemed an eternity,
Until she was standing at the
Beautiful brown feet of Allah.
“You must give the shoes back now.â€
“To whom?†she asked.
God then motioned downward
Toward a group of young patriots
Weeping plaintively.
“There. They need them now, Jill,
So they might go home.â€
She then removed the new shoes
And dropped them from the sky
…like a bomb.
http://apoeticjustice.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-shoes.html
March 30th, 2006 at 10:36 am…while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is…
Huh? She dressed like that before she was captured, so that she could go out in the streets and do her fecking job. Women reporters do it all the time in Muslim countries so they don’t offend people, and to fit in better. I’ve seen Christiane Ammanpour wearing a hijab before.
What an idiot.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:38 amC’mon, IRI–put your ass where your mouth is and get over to Iraq so you can report all the good news back to us.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:39 amThis young woman has more raw courage in her little finger than all the NeoCons put together. Podhoretz and his kind are nothing more than white trash. Of course, they don’t like the fact that she doesn’t act as a media whore.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:45 amPodhoretz suggests we can expect some “Stockholm Syndrome” from Jill Carroll. I suggest we already get a lot of “Limbaugh Syndrome” from Podhead.
LS is when, from the safety of a desk chair, you hurl into a microphone or a computer, as if you’d just imbibed the elixir of the Gods and felt compelled (usually at a certain payment rate per liter) to share it with others.
It reminds me of when Nelson Mandella was released from a South African prison after (I think it was) 23 years. Limbaugh was all over that huge man, ridiculing him, mocking his speech, as if Limbaugh could ever hope to be more than a wart on Mandella’s ass.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amOne would assume that when she was kidnapped, she wasn’t carrying a suitcase with her. So, unless she was willing to wear the same clothes for three solid months, she would have gotten clothes from her captors, who likely don’t shop at the Mall of the Americas.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:53 am“Stockholm Syndrome.” That pretty much explains the die-hard 32% who still approve of W.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:02 amGod, what an asshole! I mean, taking hostages isn’t nice business, but the fact that they didn’t behead her would make her appreciative to an extent, I’d imagine…
for all the Republicant complaints about only bad news coming from Iraq, this and the rescue of the Christian Peacemakers surely haven’t made them too happy…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:06 amShe put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq
Leave it to liberals to confuse “courage” with stupidity. Like really, a female going to a war zone in an area with a violent religion that oppresses females? STUPID – DUH.
Even after her kidnapping she still is blinded as to the enemy. Yet, this is someone liberals identify with as being intelligent – DUH.
Maybe some liberals can get her and Cindy Sheehan together – wow, think of the goosebumps!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:07 amPodhoretz is attempting to show that he remembers “Stockholm Syndrome” from Psych 101 in college. Who freaking cares what he thinks? He needs to get to Iraq and see how is is to actually be on the ground and report real news. His opinion is probably important to himself, but the rest of the world is asking, “Who is this fool?”
March 30th, 2006 at 11:08 amCan’t this guy let Jill Carroll get a breath and maybe get out of Iraq before he decides he knows everything. He just had to scoop all the other wingnuts.
#21 – Amen.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:09 amThe Pod is a pimple on the ass of progress, and needs to be incised.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:12 amwhat the fuck does he know when he says this
i remember seeing stories of her coverage prior to her kidnapping and she treated the culture with respect and did not wear western clothes while there
March 30th, 2006 at 11:12 amJustaDog, quit flapping your gums and show us your courage by signing up and fighting the “terrorists” over in Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:15 amI expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.
Does anyone feel this is a false statement?
It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth
One could argue that it is wrong to ASSUME that the above statement meant any more than what the words put together say.
Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:18 amSo if the first statement is correct (Considering we are in a thread now about it. Podhoretz should apologize for stating an unpopular truth?
Surely degrading this woman by forcing her to wear muslim clothes when she is NOT muslim is an outrage. Certainly more outrageous than a few harmless fraternity-type pranks like naked pyramids and glow stick sodomy and accidentally getting shot in the face.
The right has completely lost it. They aren’t even grasping at straws anymore…they don’t even know where the straws are.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:20 am#36 in your mind yesterday the press is not reporting enough good, but if they arttempt to report on the good and get killed, maimed or kidnapped, it’s their fault for going intoa dangerous situation. In other words it’s a no win situation for them, unless of course they sit back in New York, or LA and criticise the press in Iraq for reporting the bad stuff. They are damed if they do and damned if they don’t.
Well if you think it is too dangerous for the press to go out and report (I’m inferrng that from your stupidity cvomment) then that would seem sto indicate that things are not quite as rosey in Iraq as the Neo convicts seem to want the public to believe.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:20 am#36…… Courage is what differentiates a REAL reporter from the faux reporters. The majority of Americans DO NOT believe what the bush/cheney pubiliticy machine is putting out about anything. If bush/cheney actaully allowed the truth to be told, reporters would not have to face the risks imposed upon them when attempting to tell Americans what is really taking place in Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:22 amMy father was a ring-wing pessimist and my mother a progressive optimist.
He died at 59 after a 12 year battle with cancer.
She is 62 and healthier than people half her age, even though she’s been smoking since she was 14, and still eats crap I wouldn’t feed to my cats.
Both of their parents died from cancer and heart disease. It’s not the genes. It’s the attitude. And
March 30th, 2006 at 11:24 amJill will outlive John in age, by decades.
Podhoretz should apologize for stating an unpopular truth?
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 11:18 am
Remind me again; who was one of the biggest cheerleaders for our involvement in Iraq? His “unpopular truths” got her in this fix in the first place (not to mention the deaths of thousands of soldiers). Cheerleading Bush to war, and then criticizing someone captured in a war he helped start, pretty much de-legitimizes any opinions he might hold.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:27 amAmerican Hostage Jill Carroll Free (Updated)…
American journalist Jill Carroll has been freed by her captors. This post will be updated throughout the day. Jill Carroll had been held hostage for nearly three months by a terrorist organization calling itself ‘The Revenge Brigades’. The group kill…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:27 amIs this what they call tossing a bone to the lions? Geez. There’s no meat on it! Stop the insanity!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:28 amSeixon, comment #7, you are right. He was just making a comment.
But I’ll bet she was treated well.
Those Arabs, to the best of my knowledge, don’t humiliate people. They don’t make them disrobe and then put them in pyramids. They don’t have contests to make them urinate and defecate in fear. They don’t make them masturbate in public. They don’t desecrate their religion.
Sure, they cut their heads off, occassionally, but I’m sure that it’s fast and swift. At least as fast and swift as Apache helicopter gunships seding missiles into neighborhoods full of women and children.
The USA humiliates its enemies.
I’m getting off the subject.
Still, even in 2006, US prisoners get treated better than any–make that any–other prisoners in the world.
But, that will change.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:30 amThey let her go.
Think about how many they have not let go.
What’s the difference?
Something Bush will never understand… in this world you get what you give.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:31 amEasily predicted.All the redneck slimeballs come out from under their rocks and attack the victim because she did’nt have to pay a higher price.Lot of sociopathic thinking going on.And the religious right will probably put their two cents worth in,forgetting to ask themselves “what would Jesus do”.All in support of that sorry son of a bitch,George W.Bush.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:31 amMore armchair reporting from these fucktards. If Podperson had as much balls as Jill Carroll, then maybe he could even think about commenting on her experience, but alas, he remains firmly entrenched at his keyboard. What a loser. Perhaps if they had killer her, he would be hailing her as a hero and victim of terrorists that we’re supposed to be fighting.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:32 am#52 Jesus wouldn’t do anything, he’s been dead for roughly 2k years.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:33 am.All the redneck slimeballs come out from under their rocks and attack the victim because she did’nt have to pay a higher price.Lot of sociopathic thinking going on.
Comment by Pat Walters — March 30, 2006 @ 11:31 am
The very same guys who blame the rape victim for wearing a short skirt…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:34 amWith the Neocons what it is is that they were hoping that she would have been executed. They could use her death on multiple levels. First they could tout it as proof that the muslums are all blood thirsty savages. The could use it to further inflame the passsions of their minions. Secondly they could use it to say stupid liberals going out and getting themselves killed when they know it is dangerous and attack the press from that angle. Of course that angle ignores the claim that things in Iraq are as peaceful as they are in Istanbul, but they get to attack the press and they like that. The other angle they would have loved to use is the do gooders should stay home angle.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:35 am#54,
And judging from the way many Christians act these days, so have his teachings.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:35 amHow long has John Podhoretz been held captive in that ignorant mind of his? What a moron.
As for Jill wearing Islamic garb, if this moron did the minimum amount of reading, he would know that she always dressed like that in Iraq, mainly to blend in, so that the nutjobs wouldnt try to blow her up.
Yet another moron from the right equating Islam with terrorism. Hate begets hate. I wish you, John Podhoretz, a nice evening stroll on the streets of Baghdad. Then you can take your “its not as bad as the media says it is” talking point out for a spin. Moron!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:36 amfor all the Republicant complaints about only bad news coming from Iraq, this and the rescue of the Christian Peacemakers surely haven’t made them too happy…
Comment by Pete Bogs —
Oh yeah, saving the Christian Peacemakers was a good use of time and resources. Basically we “saved” them from their friends. It was probably a put up job from the start. My guess is Jill Carroll begged to kidnapped and when she got tired of the crappy food she walked away. I can’t wait to read her first hand account of the noble freedom fighters who against all odds are winning the war against the American Capitalists occupation.
The Christian Peacemaker Teams volunteers have been in Iraq since October 2002, investigating allegations of abuse against Iraqi detainees by coalition forces. The group says its teams promote peaceful solutions in conflict zones.
Pritchard called for coalition forces to leave the country.
“We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq,” he said.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:37 am#20 You write and spell like Bush’s speech writer. No wonder he can’t even read it. I’m so happy that Jill Carroll was released unharmed. Are the right wing warmongers scared that their messages of the cruelty of our “enemy” may be just another lie and we are not going to believe them anymore.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:39 amAttack the hostage…
It didn’t take long with Jill Carroll….
March 30th, 2006 at 11:40 amYet another moron from the right equating Islam with terrorism. [..]
As for Jill wearing Islamic garb, if this moron did the minimum amount of reading, he would know that she always dressed like that in Iraq, mainly to blend in, so that the nutjobs wouldnt try to blow her up.
Comment by Mash
Fruitcake
March 30th, 2006 at 11:41 amSo let me get this straight…
If you are beheaded like Nick Berg and others…it proves that “Islamofascists” are cruel and unforgiving heathens…….
If you are released without harm by “Islamofascists” it proves YOU are a terrorist…
Huh …what kind of logic is that……?????
I guess because she is not a “good – pro war christian” she is a traitor..
last time I checked being a good christian meant being non-violent….
and so it goes in BushWorld
March 30th, 2006 at 11:42 amNot to threadjack, but way up above some wingnut said: “I guess the whole ‘FISA Judges Say Bush Had Authority For Surveillance’ doesn’t really fly around here, so you’re stuck with creating smoke where there is no fire.”
What is he talking about? I only spent 30 seconds searching, but could not find a reference or source for his FISA claim.
Anyone?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:42 amAttack the hostage…
It didn’t take long with Jill Carroll….
Trackback by ReidBlog
You mean the guest not the hostage right?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amAttack the hostage…
It didn’t take long with Jill Carroll….
Trackback by ReidBlog
You mean the guest not the hostage right?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amThe words and deeds of people like Pudhoretz and Box Turtle Ben, cleary demonstrate that these hacks have a definite lack of morals and characters. For them, everything revolves around avoiding the awful reality that George Bush’s Iraq adventure has been a miserable failure.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:43 am#59,
Put down the crack pipe, man!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:44 am#55 the other day a right ding koolaid drinking ideologue said that Darwin was dead and Jesus was still alive. Which is it? Is he alive in your mind? Or dead as you said?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:47 amAre the right wing warmongers scared that their messages of the cruelty of our “enemy†may be just another lie and we are not going to believe them anymore.
Comment by Ester —
You are impossibly stupid. You should also change your name. Ester is a good Jewish name and terrorist appeasing and headchopping apologist such as yourself should not be allowed to use it.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amWhen I read that she said her captors treated her well, my own first thought was Stockholm syndrome. I think you don’t understand what that is. It’s a typical reaction of kidnap victims and is probably an instinctive survival technique. It does not mean she’s “mental.” Look at the facts: she says she was well treated. Well, being help captive without knowing what’s going to happen to you for three months is NOT being “well treated.” Give her a chance to decompress and she may have other thoughts about the experience. I think you owe John Podhoretz (whom I pretty much despise) an apology.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:54 amJohn Podhoretz is bummed because his rape torture fanatasy by Islamic extemist to a liberal journalist didn’t happen. These right wingers want “good news” from Iraq but, won’t send any of their brethern outside the green zone.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:55 amI’m trying to locate any of Podhoretz’s dispatches from the front. Can any of you help me find those?
It’s OK. I’ll wait…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:56 amJill Caroll’s opinions are not the point right now. The important thing is, she’s free! The people who kidnapped her did a VERY BAD thing, even though I’m extremely happy that they released her.
Whether or not Jill is sypathetic to the political opinions of her captors (via “The Stockholm Syndrome” or just her own ideas), that’s not the point. Reasonable people can disagree and debate each other. It was just so painful to see a frightened young women in just a terrible situation…we should all be relieved that she’s safe!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amI Agree with you but I agree with Podhoretz too….I found the way she dressed was kind of odd, but she is safe and that is the important thing.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amWhat is he talking about? I only spent 30 seconds searching, but could not find a reference or source for his FISA claim.
Anyone?
Comment by mattfwood —
bad news sometimes doesn’t travel in the liberal owned MSM and when it does it’s covered up…like this one [..While the Washington Times said Kornblum's testimony indicated that the Bush surveillance program did not violate the law, other media outlets interpreted the judges' comments differently.
]
In a significant vindication for President Bush, a judge who co-authored the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act said Tuesday that the president was duly authorized under the Constitution to order the wiretapping of suspected terrorists – without getting a warrant from the FISA Court.
Testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, former FISA Court Judge Allan Kornblum said that president’s Constitutional powers supersede the FISA law, which critics claim the Bush program violated.
“If a court refuses a FISA application and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review, the president can under executive order act unilaterally, which he is doing now,” said Kornblum, in quotes picked up by the Washington Times.
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/30/00303.shtml?s=ic
March 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amOf course she wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #3
Impudent-Racist-Imbecile,
…isn’t that suite reserved for you in hell ready yet?
You are impossibly stupid. You should also change your name. Ester is a good Jewish name and terrorist appeasing and headchopping apologist such as yourself should not be allowed to use it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #70
way-to-go IRI,
…spoken like a true Bushite anti-Christian…
…you’re such a MARVELOUS spokesperson for your brand of hypocritical “faith”…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:59 am#64
I believe he is refering to where a couple of the FISA judges that were friends of the neo cons were told a little something about the illegal wire taping and they agreed not to tell the other judges on the FISA court and not to try to force the issue before the court… basically entirely unethical, but that is what they did.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:01 pmI vote we pitch in our pennies and send Podperson over there so he can tell us what is really going on. And while we’re at it, let’s send Kaloogian along to make sure that Podperson is not omitting all the happy happy stuff that reporters like Jill Carroll are deliberately leaving out.
And let’s send I-ASSHAT-I over there with as a human shield. My guess is that he’s eager to prove the accusations of being a cowardly moron wrong, and is moreover just leaping at the chance to put himself in harm’s way for the sake of his Dear Leader and his enablers.
I guarantee you that the results of such a trip would truly be good news.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pmof course she is suffering from stockholm syndrome:
witness:
“Captives begin to identify with their captors initially as a defensive mechanism, out of fear of violence. Small acts of kindness by the captor are magnified, since finding perspective in a hostage situation is by definition impossible. Rescue attempts are also seen as a threat, since it’s likely the captive would be injured during such attempts.”
March 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pmI think you owe John Podhoretz (whom I pretty much despise) an apology.
Comment by LeisureGuy
She was there John wasnt. SHE says she was not harmed. SHE is not missing any limbs or anything else was harmed as far as we know. Sounds like John owes Jill an apology.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pmJohn Putzhoritz deserves the back of someone’s hand or maybe three months worth of captivity somewhere. What a shmuck!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:05 pmJohn Putzhoretz deserves the back of someone’s hand or maybe three months worth of captivity somewhere. What a complete and total shmuck!
Jill Carroll god bless you. . .
March 30th, 2006 at 12:06 pmI honestly think some of these people would have been happier if Jill Carroll had been murdered.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pm“If a court refuses a FISA application and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review, the president can under executive order act unilaterally, which he is doing now,†said Kornblum
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #76
I’nfectious-R’ectal-I’nvader,
NOTE the words: “If a court refuses a FISA application…”
…by ALL accounts (including the criminal Bushiva’s)…
…NO such application was applied for …
…extrapolate from that the other half of the equation…
…you moronic mofo…
March 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pmI have to disagree LeisureGuy,
Podhoretz is clearly trying to play down Carroll’s statements. She says she was well treated, meaning what exactly? The didn’t beat, rape or behead her, and mostl likely fed her. My thoughts are that the right wing is upset, that she does not have any stories to tell of her captivation, that don’t include savage torture and beatings. He is saying she has Stockholm syndrome; the subtext reading that she was terribly mistreated, but because of her captivity she won’t tell the truth. The idea that captors are not brutal savages does not fit in with the right wing point of view, thus by their logic, she is a terrorist sympathiser covering up for the captors misdeeds.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:09 pmIt was just so painful to see a frightened young women in just a terrible situation…we should all be relieved that she’s safe!
Comment by Publicus —
It could have been an act.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:13 pmKrazny, your analysis is dead-on.
And Podhoretz was pulling the classic “Brutus is an honorable man” rhetorical trick, saying what he wanted to say by predicting that others would say it first while keeping himself above the fray he hopes to start.
Carroll was over there doing her job and by all accounts doing it well, at great personal risk, unlike folks like I-ASSHAT-I (for whom the term “job” is an alien concept). She will no doubt handle the attention this whole nightmare focusses upon her with grace and poise, while the wingnuts foam and spin because their lies are becoming more transparent and flimsy by the hour.
Fly, little wingnuts, fly!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pmformer FISA Court Judge Allan Kornblum said that president’s Constitutional powers supersede the FISA law,
Therefore it is unconstitutional. Liberals have enacted several unconstitutional laws, this was just one of them. As a homosexual black guy you might know a few more.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pmSeixon is full of hooey. He knows perfectly well that when a wingnut like Podoretz says “someone is going to start talking about Stockholm Syndrom,” he is trying to get the buzz going while hoping there will be enough suckers like Seixon to buy the line that he is just an innocent observor. Sort of like an old Southern colonel sighing about a black rape suspect, “I sho’ hope they don’t lynch that boy. Be a damn shame … but ya nevah can tell what some people might do … ”
Anyhow the Pod doesn’t know what he’s talking about anyway on a lot of scores. Jill consistently dressed in conservative Muslim attire before her kidnapping, to fit in with the locals and to be able to interact with people more naturally.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmThe supposed “Terrorists” treated her well and released her unharmed….Unlike our military who torture those who are “Suspected” of anything. We have become the terrorists!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmCheerleading Bush to war, and then criticizing someone captured in a war he helped start, pretty much de-legitimizes any opinions he might hold.
He said “I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.”
Guess what there is (Judging frlom the board I am reading right now)
His “unpopular truths†got her in this fix in the first place
So she has no free will, she was forced into Iraq? Now I am not blaming her for this problem, but I damn sure am not accusing something John Pohoretz said of causing the Iraq war, Jill Carrol to go over there and get captured.
With that kind of logic one could pretty much blame anything on Bush (Oh NM, already done)
March 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pmSo naked prisoner pyramid, smearing with fake mentrual blood, attacking people with dogs, those are all just fraternity pranks, but “OH MY GOD!! THEY MADE HER WEAR WHAT THEY MAKE OTHER ARAB WOMEN WEAR!!”
March 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pmJohn has Stockhlom Syndrom from all the years of being held captive by an ammoral idealogy.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:23 pmJill consistently dressed in conservative Muslim attire before her kidnapping, to fit in with the locals and to be able to interact with people more naturally.
Comment by Egypt Steve — March 30, 2006 @ 12:19 pm
The neocons won’t buy that because whenthey travel it is in large air-conditioned coaches in which the only interaction they have is with other rich Americans. They don’t and won’t get that when other people, with open-minds, travel they actually want to interact with the locals in respect of their cultures.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:24 pmJohn has Stockhlom Syndrom from all the years of being held captive by an ammoral idealogy.
Comment by Eugene Grossmann — March 30, 2006 @ 12:23 pm
That’s more like it…
March 30th, 2006 at 12:26 pmYou can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:32 pmYou can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
Comment by Vance — March 30, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
I think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:36 pmFruitcake
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 11:41 am
I-RIGHT-I, get on the next plane to Baghdad, they need you for some PR work on the banks of the Tigris. I’ll pay for the plane ticket.
Beefcake!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:41 pmHe made himself very clear with the first part of that
It’s wonderful that she’s free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn’t beaten or killed — while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is — I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.
Beside the fact that saying you weren’t killed would be pretty silly, the asshat is just pissed that she said she wasn’t mistreated—period. If she were dressed in jeans and a tube top and said she wasn’t mistreated he would have said the same thing. She helping the terrists by not lying and saying she got killed. And raped. And then killed some more.
What a dumb dickhead.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWhat the FISA law has to do with Jill Caroll is beyond me, other than being a convienient way to change the discussion.
“If a court refuses a FISA application and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review, the president can under executive order act unilaterally, which he is doing now,” said Kornblum, in quotes picked up by the Washington Times.
Key phrase “If a court refuses…” Thus far none have been refused as no applications have been made. Therefore the rest of the statement is nto needed. However… the next keyphrase “…and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review…” Umm, he has to get rejected in order for this particular time crunch issue to come into play. But lets play and say that he was rejected even though he was not, every single one of these unknown number of taps were so timely as to avoid the appeal process?
Then Kornblum jumps tha shark, as IRI has and suffers from cognative dissonance and is unable to reconcile what he just said not three seconds earlier with the reaility of the situation. So he says that the president can do what he wants. Umm according to what he says the president has to at least try to do what the courts say first, and we know he has not done that because he feels that he is above the law.
And IRI the FISA laws are unconstitutional in your mind? Interesting as they seem to have ahd no trouble with the supreme court yet. 20,000 Warrents issued and none overturned as far as I know. Seems pretty solid to me. However the constituion and case law is pretty clear on not having a warrant.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:43 pm#99 Thats a scary truth!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:45 pmThis is a premptive attack on anyone who points to Jill Carrolls treatment by her captives as proof that not all insurgents are savage, and brutal. One of the primary justifications for the harsh treatment of muslim captives in US custody has been the often brutal treatment western captives have recieved.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:46 pmI’m so sorry that Jill Carroll’s release didn’t live up to conservative expectations, and that she failed to provide them with a convenient soundbite. It must be tough realizing that this is just one more missed PR opportunity for supporters of this war.
But, as the right is so quick to remind us, life doesn’t always turn out the way you’d like it to.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#104,
Yeah, and as we can see, that ploy’s worked really well for them.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:51 pmThe truth is something conservatives avoid these days. Much to their own impending doom (come the next election cycle).
From the National Priorities Project, we learn a few interesting facts about the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq.
Occupying Iraq has cost this nation’s taxpayers $250,000,000,000 thus far. Think about it. That’s HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars.
Occupying Iraq is costing the US $5,900,000,000 per month. Again, B as in Billion.
Occupying Iraq is costing us as individuals (each and every one of us in the US) $989 per month.
I would like to see a conservative is willing to stand up and say that they personally are getting their monies worth?
Who is going to support this occupation by saying they feel safer and that this $1000 a month is worth it?
Who is willing to pay $1000 a month and still have the madman who attacked us on 9/11 wandering freely through South Asia?
Who is going to claim that the Iraq occupation is worth $1000 a month straight out of their wallet (and out of the wallets of their own grandchildren)?
I’m happy that Jill got out alive. I just hope she tells the truth and is offered the airtime to get her story out.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:06 pmWelcome home Jill Carrol
( although your president wanted you beheaded to justify his war on terror and gain more support)
you will be a great embarrasment to bush now and he will try to discredit everything you say
March 30th, 2006 at 1:08 pm#108,
And they gripe about the meager federal funding of Public Broadcasting!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#108,
And they gripe about the meager federal funding that goes to Public Broadcasting!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:10 pmI think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
Comment by unbelievable
Do you feel it is better to release prisoners into society than incarcerate them?
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
March 30th, 2006 at 1:10 pmOoops, sorry for the double post!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:11 pmin re “former FRISA judge”…..all one really needs is to see the NEWSMAX brand on this story to know why the MSM is not carrying it (although one might expect FOX to pick it up) – its more made up crap from the same folks who gave us CLinton Fathering a Black Baby.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:11 pmI think they are just pissed off. Plain and simple. P.O.’d, Having a hissy. A strange reaction for those who only yesterday were WAILING about the lack of stories filled with sunshine, out of Iraq. And today, a GREAT story comes out, yet they are displeased still. But why? She emerged unscathed (physically), amazingly. and said she had not been mistreated. And THAT is their issue about her.The Iraqi’s treated her in a humane manner, and they KNOW the same cannot be said of us. And like every truth they cannot hide from, their only option is to destroy the “messenger”. That is so pathetic, and so Republican. It must be so freeing, to never be burdened by any feelings of shame. Must be …umm nice?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:12 pmTypical responses by trolls and RepubliKKKans. Those who never risked their lives not even a single peice of hair to go into dangerous territory are pissed that those who do get respect from us.
IRIGHTI is an idiot for calling her a terrorist. She could have been executed and yet
he and those oil loving facists show no love or no effort to help her or support
any effort to rescue her. That proves, among a long list of dubious acts, that the
BubbleBoy Administration is declaring war on free thinking Americans.
Jill Carroll risked her life to tell the truth and lived to tell it. Had she been killed, BubbleBoy would have one of those photo-ops to try to provide empty comfort to her family and friends. IRI and those facists, had they had any balls would have went to Iraq and seen firsthand what being kidnapped and nearly killed was like. I’m sure
they would have lived in fear day by day rather than worry if their oil stocks fell down by a half of a percent. This is what the war is about. It’s about goddamn fucking OIL!
And these Iraqi leaders who were put into power had better get their shit together or else, we’re going to leave anyway. That way, no other soldier or jounalist will ever have to suffer or worse.
God Bless Jill Carroll
March 30th, 2006 at 1:16 pmGod Save IRI and the facists
Oh, and IRI, Podheretz and the RepubliKKKans should remember, at least the captors treated Jill better than what the Iraqi prisoners got at that one prison where Lynndie England worked.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:19 pmBushbots are sociopathic cultists
March 30th, 2006 at 1:21 pm#115,
As I’ve said before, I think that there are lots of conservatives who publicly decry the violence in Iraq, and who feign righteous indignation any time a hostage is murdered, but who privately are glad for it to happen, as it serves to justify their attitudes towards Muslims and towards Islam.
I recall the right-wing vitriol being directed against Rachel Corrie a few years back. Many conservatives who disagreed with her being in Gaza in the first place rejoiced at her death. Several even went so far as to say she got what she deserved, and that she’ll rot in hell for giving “aid and comfort” to the Palestinians. No doubt there are some who post here who share these sentiments.
I’m sorry, but these people aren’t entirely connected to the real world.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:22 pm#115 – …today, a GREAT story comes out, yet they are displeased still. But why? She emerged unscathed (physically), amazingly. and said she had not been mistreated. And THAT is their issue about her.The Iraqi’s treated her in a humane manner, and they KNOW the same cannot be said of us.
Gosh, do you think the ReichWingNuts can even fathom that they are dealing with humans? Iraqi’s have been demonized to prop GOP platforms and spin cycles. Yet, under all this, there are humans. Good, decent, country protecting, God fearing humans.
My heart lept when I saw that Jill got out safe.
Fundimentalism of any kind can go very very wrong. The GOP has descended to the level of fundimentalism. They must go.
ITMFA!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:26 pmIn my world, being held prisoner for 3 months, threatened (on video) with being killed, not knowing what is going to happen to you–that, for me, counts as mistreatment. YMMV, of course, but I think if it happened to you, you would also consider it mistreatment. And the Stockholm syndrome is well established as a pyschological mechanism.
I hold no brief for John Podhoretz, but I’m saying that thinking that Jill Carroll may be experiencing Stockholm syndrome is not to condemn her. She’s human–why would it not happen to her?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:29 pmIt amazes me some of the filthy things the neocons are saying about Ms. Carroll.
I guess it would be better for them if she said she was raped ‘x’ amount of times, beaten, converted to Islam and so on…..so they may keep their hated of Iraqis and Muslims alive and beat their war drums.
Frankly, one wonders with the families being slaughtered in Iraq recently, doctors, teachers, and students suddenly being killed more….the death squads starting up not long after Negroponte’s arrival….what is going in Iraq? Who does it benefit? Does it make a case to keep U.S. troops longer in Iraq and build those bases that makes the U.S. public and the world question BushCo.’s motives? Again, who benefits?
Remember, it was said Jill Carroll was getting too close to the truth when she was kidnapped, which truth?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:29 pmDo you feel it is better to release prisoners into society than incarcerate them?
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
To add to Ryan’s comments, I’d say that it’s also worth understanding how we judge people. Are we more criminal as a society that needs to be locked up – or are we more intolerant and are quicker to lock people up?
One thing I learned working on a prison project when I was an architect is that the jail population skyrocketted with the introduction of crack cocaine. So, the next question would be – why do we have such a terrible drug problem?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:31 pmI found the pictures of Jill Carroll swathed in a headscarf during her interview fairly disturbing.
Stockholm Syndrome popped into my mind when I first saw them as well. She was at the Islamic Party headquarters, however, so it may have been required.
What are we to make, then, of previous videos of her weeping and obviously frightened or disturbed along with a voice-over of demands for release of Iraqi prisoners.
The whole situation is very strange.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:32 pmYou can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
Comment by Vance — March 30, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
I think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
Comment by unbelievable #99
#99 Thats a scary truth!
Comment by Vance #103
Vance and unbelievable,
No wonder inbred TRAITORS in the Bushite controlled MSM…
…are harping about “Please, No more comparisons of Bush as Hitler”…
…can you say “concentration camp America?”
March 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pmBob, you’re right, it looks like the people who are attacking Jill are doing exactly what rightwingers accuse liberals of: righties say that liberals hate to hear “good news” out of Iraq, because it hurts the liberal agenda. Having Jill Carroll safely released hurts the right-wing ideology. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Is it me, or is IRI being especially obnoxious today?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:41 pmAs a homosexual black guy you might know a few more.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #89
…having “man” troubles IRI?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:41 pm#119
(I’m taking your percentages as they are because overall the exact breakup is irrelevant to our discussion).
the social/educational/opportunity issues that often lead people into crime. (Here is going to be a fundamental difference between our ways of thinking) If I get hit by a drunk driver, lose my legs and am forced to move my daughter to a neighborhood that has worse schools and higher drug rates, I don’t give a rats behind what social/educational/opportunity issues the driver had. It does not change the fact that because they choose to break the law, they have effected MY life and the life of MY children.
I was born and raised in Detroit Michigan. I took the time to learn in school, join the military so that I could get my education paid for and busted my butt to get a good job. In my opinion noone has the right to take any of that from me or my family. If someone cannot use the social programs that are available to get a hand up, don’t expect me to be sympathetic when they break a law that effects my life.
21% of the people who are in prison are there on drug related issues
That covers a wide range. While sure you could say it is a non violent crime, is selling drugs in a middle school a non-violent crime?
20% are there on property related issues
Again a wide range. Property related could be aquiring my property. Stealing my identity and forcing me out of my home. Enron is full of non violent offenders that ruined a whole lot of lives, that were not theirs to ruin.
Both of these are strongly related to economic, social and educational opportunities that need to be addressed.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:46 pmSee my point above. I am all for helping give a hand up to people in areas with poor economic, social and educational opportunities. But I do not feel it can be used as an excuse any more than White Collar crime can use an entitlement excuse.
[...] Judd at Think Progress is absolutely right. John Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology. [...]
March 30th, 2006 at 1:47 pmDon’t the diehard neocon Republicans continue to support Dubya and the posse because of Stockhold Syndrome? It’s all he’s got left. Once they learn they have to help pay for his war, he’ll be hstory.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:49 pmThe reason she was dressed in Islamic dress was because the interview was conducted at the office of the Sunni political party where her captors dropped her off. Had the interview waited until she was settled in the Green Zone one would assume that she would have changed back into her Western clothes.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:50 pmP.S. Manshake!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:51 pm#119
“20% are there on property related issues
21% of the people who are in prison are there on drug related issues”
100% are there for being found guilty of a crime, thats my take on it. While I feel the drug laws should be relaxed, until they are, if your caught with weed for example, you just commited a crime.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:56 pm…can you say “concentration camp America?â€
Comment by big papa — March 30, 2006 @ 1:40 pm
Exactly!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:57 pmThe Republicans are trying to “tag” Ms. Carroll with “Stockholm Syndrome, because THEY need her too have it. Because the TRUTH totally f*cks with their “landscape”, and it is driving them CRAZY!!! So, now they need to make her look crazy, because all the details make them look SOOOOOO bad, in comparison. and they are WELL AWARE OF IT! Let the slander commence! Losers.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:58 pmJane,
Conservatives hate it when the left criticizes but offers no viable alternatives to a situation, so I’d like those people who are bothered by Jill Carroll’s statements to tell us what you wished she had said instead.
And when you’re done with that, please tell us why that would be preferable.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pm100% are there for being found guilty of a crime, thats my take on it. While I feel the drug laws should be relaxed, until they are, if your caught with weed for example, you just commited a crime.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
100%? Another absolutist…
You have heard about the folks who were released for being innocent of their convictions because DNA testing changed the ability for a strong defense,right?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#139, thats why I said found guilty of a crime, as opposed to committed a crime
March 30th, 2006 at 2:05 pmfor my 100% part, not the part where i actually said commited a crime.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:07 pmfor my 100% part, not the part where i actually said commited a crime.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
I read what you wrote, but that in itself is pointless. Of course they were convicted. It’s simply the equals sign between 1 + 2 = 3… it has no bearing on the equation.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pm#142 “You have heard about the folks who were released for being innocent of their convictions because DNA testing changed the ability for a strong defense,right?”
So then they had been found guilty and sent to prison, and then, when found innocent they were released? So you agree with me then, the prison population is 100% people found guilty of a crime?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pmHow did we get off on this topic?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:27 pm124,
So, the next question would be – why do we have such a terrible drug problem?
I don’t know why we have such a terrible drug problem (Besides it’s addicitve nature), but my feelings on bringing it down involve stricter border controls and more people in prison not less.
I suppose my next question to Unbelieveable is what do we do to lower the amount of people in prisons?
Do we make a quota of people that can be found guilty?
Get rid of some of the laws that don’t directly effect others (Poaching, owning an unregistered firearm, drug use)?
lessen sentences for all crimes?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:28 pmHey #99 get your facts straight before you hyperbolize.
The US does not have more prisoners incarcerated than the rest of the world combined, we are up there but there no need for dramatics. A quick search of Google will result in finding that we have around 2 million, China is estimated to have the same, though I bet it’s a bit higher.
“What are we to make, then, of previous videos of her weeping and obviously frightened or disturbed along with a voice-over of demands for release of Iraqi prisoners.
The whole situation is very strange.
Comment by Cass”
I agree completely, sorry but being kidnapped, your translator executed, and to be threatened with death at any moment doesn’t exactly define being treated well to me.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:28 pm“So you agree with me then, the prison population is 100% people found guilty of a crime? Comment by squishypoop”
No, some are there because they refused to ‘cooperate’ (lie) – remember Susan McDougall?
It’s called ‘being held in contempt’, and many would argue that it isn’t a crime, although I’m sure you’d disagree.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm#144
You can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
Comment by Vance — March 30, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
I think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
Comment by unbelievable #99
Once that came up we decided to discuss fixing the issue
March 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pm“I don’t know why we have such a terrible drug problem (Besides it’s addicitve nature), but my feelings on bringing it down involve stricter border controls and more people in prison not less. squishypoop”
The fastest growing drug problems stem from home grown meth. The borders won’t help you, so once again that’s what you get for trying to ‘think’. Leave it up to those more literate and intelligent – like humor, it’s not your gift.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pmSo then they had been found guilty and sent to prison, and then, when found innocent they were released? So you agree with me then, the prison population is 100% people found guilty of a crime?
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Nope. If you admit to being guilty, you go. No actual ‘finding of guilt’, but rather an admission.
I mean we are arguing semantics now, and not the point that there are innocent people in prison, right?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:32 pmA solid wall of silence should respond to provocations by such as JPod. This is merely his stock-in-trade: a smush-up of hate, entertainment, and PolitPorn. [Julius Streicher's DER STURMER pioneered this genre, since "refined" (like a fine Texas crude) by Slush Limbog, etc.] And how lame to dredge up Stalk Syndrome; next he’ll dish up bargain-basement Freud or Jung, or maybe Rev. Moon or Dr. Fill-Up. As the quintessential USA cliche says: “JPod, put your $$$ where yer mouth is, and ENLIST!”
March 30th, 2006 at 2:34 pm#150 ” I mean we are arguing semantics now, and not the point that there are innocent people in prison, right?”
That is correct.
You could also go with the argument that people who are awaiting trial, but did not post bail are in prison, so they have not been found guilty either.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pmI don’t know why we have such a terrible drug problem (Besides it’s addicitve nature), but my feelings on bringing it down involve stricter border controls and more people in prison not less.
Well, clearly, that’s not working.
There are serious drug use problems in high school. I maintain that it’s a result of the undue pressures put upon these kids to be ‘perfect’ that cause some of them to escape. I think it probably applies to adults as well.
So, perhaps we should look in the mirror first. As the first step in solving a problem is admitting it.
I suppose my next question to Unbelieveable is what do we do to lower the amount of people in prisons? Do we make a quota of people that can be found guilty? Get rid of some of the laws that don’t directly effect others (Poaching, owning an unregistered firearm, drug use)? lessen sentences for all crimes?
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
Until we identify he problem, we can’t speculate as to the treatment. Would be like your doctor giving you antibiotics for a cough before he ever diagnosed your condition.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:38 pmHey #99 get your facts straight before you hyperbolize.
The US does not have more prisoners incarcerated than the rest of the world combined, we are up there but there no need for dramatics. A quick search of Google will result in finding that we have around 2 million, China is estimated to have the same, though I bet it’s a bit higher.
Comment by Onthefence — March 30, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
I did. Don’t know what you Googled, but China does not have more people in prison. I have been there. They don’t have the problems we do here. Their culture is very different, and their treatment of criminals is also different.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:41 pmRyan
One thing I learned working on a prison project when I was an architect is that the jail population skyrocketted with the introduction of crack cocaine. So, the next question would be – why do we have such a terrible drug problem?
The drug problem reference was pulled from post 124, where Crack Cocaine was referenced. Sorry if I didn’t reiterate it. I did reference the number for you though.
149
The fastest growing drug problems stem from home grown meth.
Does the fastest growing equal the largest source of in your argument? Because I wouldn’t want to think without a license here.
I would agree that the fastest growing source of drugs (Provided your info is correct) would not be stopped at the border, but what is the largest source of drugs in the country. (I’ll go ahead and look that one up for you)
March 30th, 2006 at 2:41 pm#149 Ryan two things,
For some one who regularly insults intelligance, the stuff you quoted is from Tundra not me, so fine work there.
Second off:The fastest growing drug problems stem from home grown meth. The borders won’t help you, so once again that’s what you get for trying to ‘think’
Perhaps, perhaps not, but just because its the fastest growing dosnt make it the biggest
Meth:http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/methamph/index.html
Cocaine:http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/cocaine/index.html
Cocaine has a much higher use rate, roughly 300%, so shutting down the borders would actually help more than dealing with meth, and thats total meth, not just homegrown. But I guess thats what we get from you trying to think, flawed analysis again.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:43 pmYou could also go with the argument that people who are awaiting trial, but did not post bail are in prison, so they have not been found guilty either.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 2:35 pm
Sure… :)
March 30th, 2006 at 2:44 pmDoes anyone know if the demands of the kidnappers had been met involving other female prisoners?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:53 pm5 women prisoners were freed shortly after she was kidnapped. The claim was that they were already scheduled to be released and were not following the kidnappers’ demands. There are still women being held in prisons in Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:58 pmI did. Don’t know what you Googled, but China does not have more people in prison. I have been there. They don’t have the problems we do here. Their culture is very different, and their treatment of criminals is also different.
Comment by unbelievable — March 30, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
Here you go man: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4491026.stm
And you’re right they do treat their prisoners differently, they torture their citizens and some just disappear. We only torture Arabs.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:00 pmWTF! These people have lost their F-ING minds!
March 30th, 2006 at 3:04 pmChina does have a pretty abysmal human rights record. I would also suspect, given their dislike of opposition that they would not list political prisoners at all. those are re-education camps not prisons after all. Saying the US has more inmates then the world combined is a stretch. Saying we have one of the highest prison populations of any country is not.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:04 pmwhy was she dressed as a muslim when she writes for the christian science monitor. This should not be major news she is free and unhurt. Other than that what does she contribute to the war and the thousands of our american service men and women who put their lives on the line every day nothing!
March 30th, 2006 at 3:11 pm#163 The only real way to compare our prison pop would be as a percantage per X people, as compared to other westernized democracies, at which point I would assume we would win(Baseball scoring, not golf scoring). Any non-democracies can’t be trusted to have acurate numbers, escpecially with political disidents, like your example of chinese ‘re-education’ camps.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:12 pm#154 “Until we identify he problem, we can’t speculate as to the treatment. Would be like your doctor giving you antibiotics for a cough before he ever diagnosed your condition.”
Often times, if a doctor can’t or are having a hard time diagnosing for something like a fever, they just do blanket antibiotics and hope that deals with the problem.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:16 pm#164
March 30th, 2006 at 3:21 pmWhat’s this? I thought there was no “good news” coming out of Iraq from the media. I guess you qualify Jill Carroll’s release as just more “bad news”? Sick, really sick.
#165 Going on percentages is a better way to go but you also have to factor in that laws differ between us and other Western democracies. I think we have a much higher incarceration rate for drug offenses than most of Europe, which has been a large part of our prison population explosion, I think violent crime offenders have actually gone down in the last 20 years.
Here are some facts:
“Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constituted the largest group of Federal inmates (55%) in 2003, down from 60% in 1995 (table 14). On September 30, 2003, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 86,972 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 52,782 at yearend 1995.”
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/prison.htm
I think in most of Europe they try to rehab drug users rather than just throw them in jail. But I don’t know the percentage of those who are hardcore dealers either, but 55% is a VERY high percentage.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:22 pmSaying the US has more inmates then the world combined is a stretch. Saying we have one of the highest prison populations of any country is not.
True,
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
I would argue that people in other countries that are in Mass graves don’t count as part of a prison population either though.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:23 pmWhy the good treatment?
Iraqis understood they could not treat her the way there women were/are being treated and get away with it, unlike the US.
Why Muslim clothing?
March 30th, 2006 at 3:25 pmWhat the hell else were they suppose to give her to were. In addition, when you are reporting in strict Muslim countries must reporter and missionaries dress in the way the women of the country dress.
Why the good treatment?
Iraqis understood they could not treat her the way there women were/are being treated and get away with it, unlike the US.
Why Muslim clothing?
What the hell else were they suppose to give her to were. In addition, when you are reporting in strict Muslim countries must reporter and missionaries dress in the way the women of the country dress.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:27 pm#163 The only real way to compare our prison pop would be as a percantage per X people, as compared to other westernized democracies, at which point I would assume we would win
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 3:12 pm
Yep. You beat me to the explanation of my statistics. Based on a per person value – we are either really naughty – or we have a very low tolerance of one another.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:31 pmOften times, if a doctor can’t or are having a hard time diagnosing for something like a fever, they just do blanket antibiotics and hope that deals with the problem.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 3:16 pm
Though not the point – they actually have stopped doing that as frequently as they used to because of the ramifications of resistent bacteria… And, besides, are coughs more a result of viral infections and not baterial ones? Since we’re splitting hairs – might as well do it all the way to the end…
March 30th, 2006 at 3:35 pm#173 As frequently as they used to….so they still do it then? It appears I’ve split your split hair in twain, to paraphrase a bit from Men in Tights.
And remeber, for every doctor above the average, theres one below. Which has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but still, think about it…..
March 30th, 2006 at 3:38 pmI would argue that people in other countries that are in Mass graves don’t count as part of a prison population either though.
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
You can have that one. Because I’m not making an attack on our system, well, not entirely – it doesn’t try to find the source – just processes the result of it. But, am simply trying to indicate that we have a problem that we should address at the source. And to me, drugs aren’t the problem. It’s people that have the problem that turn to drugs (much like the saying that guns don’t kill people – people kill people. Pretty much a similar analogy).
Again, I inherently think we are ‘good’. I don’t think humans are bad or evil or any of that religious rhetoric. I think though, that they are weak. Not a judgment – but the reality that the less energy you exert, the less food you have to find to exert it – and in the wild, conservation of energy is a survival trait.
I hate writing disserations like this… but you guys sometimes insert a lot of pessimism that doesn’t even cross my mind… so I wanted to clear that up so we don’t have to be distracted by my intent here.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:42 pmAnd remeber, for every doctor above the average, theres one below. Which has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but still, think about it…..
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
Of course. C students get to graduate too… :)
March 30th, 2006 at 3:44 pmStockholm Syndrome is not an officially recognized mental illness, I think the better word would be denial. I would bet this “Stockholm Syndrome” was invented by political hacks.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:53 pmAs I understand it, Jill was pretty much in Muslim dress when she was kidnapped. It’s not like she was wandering around Baghdad dressed like Britney. God, I hate these Repukes and their mean-minded viciousness and total ignorance.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:58 pmOff topic,
The majority of Meth comes in the United States from Mexico, yes clandestine labs are a problem, but the Meth trade has shifted largly to Mexico as a result of our domestic clamping down on the problem. The demand is still here though, and now that is being addressed.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:03 pmI just like saying “Squishy Poo”
March 30th, 2006 at 4:07 pm175
It’s people that have the problem that turn to drugs
I’m following your logic (And fully agree) here but I am not sure we could do anything to correct that, without taking away free will and choice.
Say we find (hypothetically of course) that teenage kids are trying too hard to be like actors and actresses in Hollywood. They are getting depressed because they are overweight or people don’t talk to them like adults when they are 15. How do we fix these “root cause” problems without infringing on a persons right to liberty?
We can’t (Constitutionally) force people to be a specific size, dress a certain way or require that they talk to others in a specific way. We also don’t want to condition them to be hard as stone at a young age so they can handle things different (There would be a whole lot of Republican kids, maybe not such a bad idea hmmmmm)
Currently we have programs available for people who want to use them, but we don’t force people into them until the break the law. In which case they are dealt with by the legal system as opposed to the social systems. While stopping the drug trade wouldn’t address those concerns it would remove access to them (Or limit etc)
but you guys sometimes insert a lot of pessimism that doesn’t even cross my mind… It’s not intentional, I think in debate scenerios to disprove/argue against a point you sort of have to take things one step past where they would “Most often†go.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:07 pmIf Jill Carroll’s family were wingnuts:
[Family:] “Jill! Are you ALL RIGHT?”
[Jill:] “Yes!”
[Family:] “”WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN, ‘YES’? Is it ‘ALL RIGHT’ to be kidnapped and captured by freedom-hating terrorists? Are you one of THEM, now?”
This is innoculation, pure and simple. The terrorist kidnappers did not revert to type and kill the poor girl, so now there’s a chance she will humanize them in some way, when she speaks subsequently. Time to discredit HER… a journalist who, 48 hours ago, could quite easily have been a neocon martyr figure. No? THEN SLIME HER.
It’s about time the MSM adopted a new policy, and that is to start ignoring MOVEMENT PROPAGANDISTS, who have dominated the national conversation for so long and so thoroughly, that our whole country has now become a shit sandwich. ENOUGH! Keep these Goebbalses out of the news… and if their bile does manage to make it onto the air or into print, BURN THEM WITH THE TRUTH!
What in the name of God did John Podhoretz… or John Hindraker… or Michelle Malkin… or Hugh Hewitt… ever actually do, to earn their megaphones, anyway???
ADDENDA: As someone above said, man that was fast! This is most definitely a blast fax-type TALKING POINT. We have confirmation: someone just minutes ago called the Randi Rhodes Show, and said he was “disappointed”… no shit… that Jill Carroll was not killed, if these terrorists were worth their salt. Or something. He seemed to be beating the drum for piling-on to Jill for the crime of having spoken the phrase “well-treated”.
They’re into double-time and overtime, getting out the word to ignore this crazy lady.
Bastards must be in full panic mode.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:08 pmI have heard the US prison population is second to Russia. That’s still pretty high though. The mass grave point was well taken.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:09 pmWhat does her being dressed in modest Muslim garb have to do with it? When in Rome, do as the Romans do. When in Iraq, do as Iraqi women do, or at least how the society expect them to do. I’m not in favor of the hijab and I think women who wear it either can’t (for fear of life) or won’t challenge this rule, or actually do feel that wearing the hijab is a religious duty (take your pick), but, if you’re a Western woman going to a Muslim nation, in some of them, wearing the Hijab is a sign of respect. Don’t I remember Laura Bush wearing a Hijab when she went to the Middle East?
The Right-Wing is going nuts because the captors showed some humanity and rationality, and that’s what they fear: that Americans might actually see their “enemy” as rational human beings forced into defending their nation by violent means. We had the Minutemen, who did horriblee things to the British all the time, including civilians, and they have the Insurgency. National Liberation by violent means is protected under U.N. rules…the insurgents are waging a war of national liberation. They’re in the right…we’re in the wrong. Simple as that.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:10 pmhaven’t read these posts yet – was taking advantage of a warm day to clean up my garden beds…
March 30th, 2006 at 4:13 pmlistening to randi rhodes – a guy just called in to say – this is amazing – that he thought jil carroll wasn’t really kidnapped, that if the “terrists” threaten to kill they ought to carry out that threat… a very weird phone call…
randi pointed out the fact that rumsfeld purposely delayed releasing female prisoners so as not to appear to be giving in to the kidnappers demands…
Man Jamie, I appreciate your courage, but you have opened up a feild day for the trolls, man they are going to call you all kinds of things.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:14 pmI’m following your logic (And fully agree) here but I am not sure we could do anything to correct that, without taking away free will and choice.
Short-term – I agree. Long-term – I disagree. And I think it’s a long term situation. So, the sooner we start, the sooner we see results.
Say we find (hypothetically of course) that teenage kids are trying too hard to be like actors and actresses in Hollywood. They are getting depressed because they are overweight or people don’t talk to them like adults when they are 15. How do we fix these “root cause†problems without infringing on a persons right to liberty?
I don’t know which generation you belong to, but I’m near the beginning of X. As a result, the kids I’ve been teaching are from Y or whatever they’ve changed it to this week. So, I’m gonna blame my Generation for being too passive as parents (the kids of Y have generally learned that whining long enough will get them what they want). And I’m gonna blame the Baby Boomers for establishing the 60+ hour work week to appease their Corporate American bosses. These two ingredients have Generation Y being raised by MTV. Another shade of fairytale than the rest of us got – but much more dangerous.
So, since mom and dad are supposed to be the role models, but they are too busy working 60+ hours a week, the kids in Generation Y are turning to other role models such as actresses and athletes.
We need to redefine our priorities. As long as they are money, nothing will change. When they again become people, much will change.
Just my two cents worth…
We can’t (Constitutionally) force people to be a specific size, dress a certain way or require that they talk to others in a specific way. We also don’t want to condition them to be hard as stone at a young age so they can handle things different (There would be a whole lot of Republican kids, maybe not such a bad idea hmmmmm)
Dream on. :).
I’m saying, make it okay to by YOU – regardless of your dress size or hair color. Know what I mean? We’re too busy trying to emulate other people that no one is okay.
Currently we have programs available for people who want to use them, but we don’t force people into them until the break the law. In which case they are dealt with by the legal system as opposed to the social systems. While stopping the drug trade wouldn’t address those concerns it would remove access to them (Or limit etc)
I know I’m a liberal, but I don’t think the programs are the answer. Throwing money at stuff doesn’t change it. By the time they get to the programs, there is a lot less hope than if we fix it at the core level. Children need healthy self-esteem, on one hand, and discipline on the other. Right now, I see very little of either one. Hence, the need to escape…
It’s not intentional, I think in debate scenerios to disprove/argue against a point you sort of have to take things one step past where they would “Most often†go.
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 4:07 pm
Just one? :)
March 30th, 2006 at 4:21 pmI did. Don’t know what you Googled, but China does not have more people in prison. I have been there.
Comment by unbelievable
You haven’t seen Red China. You’ve seen what they want you to see. It’s absolutely ridiculous to assert that YOU KNOW for a fact they don’t have more people in prison. In fact it’s ludicrous to even think that a country of 2 billion would not have more but maybe there is an explanation…..
They don’t have the problems we do here. Their culture is very different, and their treatment of criminals is also different.
Yep their treatment of “criminals” is different. They shoot them in the head, send the bill for the bullet to their family then sell the poor bastard’s internal organs to the highest bidder. I’d say that’s different wouldn’t you?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:26 pmso, if she HAD been killed, these same people (righty weirdos) would be all crazy up-in-arms with “we need to get those murderin’ sonsabitchin’ ragheads!” … think?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:33 pmthis is amazing… i can’t believe what i’m hearing about this…
welcome home jill?
IRI- Go have sexual relations with your mother. You truly are not an American.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:37 pmYou haven’t seen Red China. You’ve seen what they want you to see. It’s absolutely ridiculous to assert that YOU KNOW for a fact they don’t have more people in prison. In fact it’s ludicrous to even think that a country of 2 billion would not have more but maybe there is an explanation…..
But it’s not ludicrous to assert for a fact that YOU KNOW? Please. Spare me your double standard. I also happen to have had Chinses friend when I lived in San Francsico. How many Chinese people you know that don’t run your Sunday Buffet?
Yep their treatment of “criminals†is different. They shoot them in the head, send the bill for the bullet to their family then sell the poor bastard’s internal organs to the highest bidder. I’d say that’s different wouldn’t you?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 4:26 pm
I know. I said it. Regardless, it doesn’t count in their prisoner count. When i was there, they were building the Yangztse River Dam, and as we sailed down river, we got to see all the ancient homes that would be flooded without regard or assistance to those in the way. No propaganda for someone wanting to practice his English to tell me that. Or anything else he told me. Really, you can interact with people off the tour bus. Well, if you get off. I choose to never get on one in the first place.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:38 pmUnbeliever – And you know about China’s prison population because….you can Google???
March 30th, 2006 at 4:44 pmUnbeliever – And you know about China’s prison population because….you can Google???
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 30, 2006 @ 4:44 pm
Go play now, the adults are having a conversation.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:45 pmLeave it to progs to hold terrorists and insurgents on an equal footing with…anyone. I believe the barbarians identified with Jill Carroll in a way they did not with longtime pro-Iraqi, Margaret Hassam. Even Tokyp Rose had a seductive voice.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:48 pm#187 “I know I’m a liberal, but I don’t think the programs are the answer. Throwing money at stuff doesn’t change it.”
Don’t let the teachers union hear you saying that, they would revoke your democrat card quicker than I, or any other conservative, can steal candy from a baby, and thats pretty quick.
Quick, hurry back to the moonbat reservation before they find out your missing :)
March 30th, 2006 at 4:49 pmOf course Powerline complained about Carroll. After all, this is how Hinderaker thinks women should be treated.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:49 pmi can’t believe what i’m hearing about this…
welcome home jill?
Comment by katy —
She was over there with the anti-war groupies getting our soldiers in trouble for doing their job. There was no way in hell the terrorists were going to chop her head off and piss of the American Left Wing Fuckwits…you know, your kind of people.
She’s a liberal fucktard but even so I’m glad she’s not dead..really. I mean that. I do hope she finds another country to live in though.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:52 pmDon’t let the teachers union hear you saying that, they would revoke your democrat card quicker than I, or any other conservative, can steal candy from a baby, and thats pretty quick.
There are no teachers’ unions allowed in the state of Georgia. It’s why there are 32 kids in some of our classes and there’s not squat we can do about it. Or the horrible Administrations. Or the low pay. Or anything else. This will be my only year in the system in this state. I plan to move.
Quick, hurry back to the moonbat reservation before they find out your missing :)
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 4:49 pm
What the hell is a moon bat? I keep asking I-Romeo-I, but he keeps dodging all of my real questions to answer the hypothetical ones.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:54 pmShe’s a liberal fucktard but even so I’m glad she’s not dead..really. I mean that. I do hope she finds another country to live in though.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
Oh come on. Step up. Why don’t you call her a whore? You basically did yesterday when you said you can get any liberal woman drunk and in your pants. Pig.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:57 pmmoonbat is a derogatory term for progressives kind of like troll for republicans.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:57 pm#199 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonbat
Moonbat was frequently used to describe those of any political persuasion who believe in conspiracy theories.
or
It now enjoys great currency in the conservative and libertarian blogosphere as an all-purpose insult for modern liberals (in the American sense of the word), war protestors, and other ideological opponents.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:59 pmmoonbat is a derogatory term for progressives kind of like troll for republicans.
Comment by Krazny — March 30, 2006 @ 4:57 pm
How?
Troll is a ugly and crabby gnomey kind of person with really bad breath and hairy warts, who lives under bridges and eats goats and small children.
I was looking for something descriptive.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:01 pmKrazny- isnt troll deragatory for anyone who tries to start a flame war on a blog? so generally the idelogical opponents of a blog who are more likely to use insults than reason, this means some of you would be considered trolls if you posted on a site such as RWN on my side of the blogosphere. Its not just a term for conservatives.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:01 pmMoonbat was frequently used to describe those of any political persuasion who believe in conspiracy theories.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 4:59 pm
Is there any subject wikipedia won’t touch ??? :)
Well, not me, considering the ‘heated debate’ I had with the 9/11 conspiracy theorist around here. His problem was that I was an architect for 14 years before changing careers. And he was ’some kind of engineer’ (domestic was my guess).
Thanks for the link. That clarified that.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:06 pmIf she was indeed treated like a “guest”, then I would like to know the name of a hotel in Iraq where they welcome you and stand by you with assault rifles, much like the videos of her that were shown today earlier on TV. I’m going to take my whole family there for summer vacation!
March 30th, 2006 at 5:07 pm#198
She was over there with the anti-war groupies getting our soldiers in trouble for doing their job
Actually the Christian Science Monitor is considered one of the better Non Partisan Newspapers on the market. She may not be on the right side, but she isn’t too far to the left either (At least her bosses aren’t)
http://www.unf.edu/library/guides/bothsides.pdf
March 30th, 2006 at 5:09 pm#205″Is there any subject wikipedia won’t touch ??? :) ”
For some reason they don’t cover me, even though everyone knows, I’m kind of a big deal.
Now for something on topic to this post! Amazingly enough, some times I am on topic.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:11 pmAn interesting point that I didn’t see, although I might have missed it, was she worked for the Christian Science Journal, a newspaper that pretty much anyone can agree to like. I’ve known people of all political persuasions who all cite it as one of the top papers to read to actually get the facts, as opposed to opinion reported as journalism. So all the people who feel she was some sort of apologist or the such are lacking in a point in that regard.
#207 Wow, great minds think alike, and apparently so do mine and Tundra’s.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:14 pmchristian? science? neither
why do you even print something that gives credence to this “pretend” organization that tries to link these two topics. that is not journalistic. to acknowledge them is demeaning to anyone that is concerned about truth, and truth only, ie; a progressive
nothing said in the CSM is real news, it is nonsense because it is the victim of a lunatic cult’s slant.
it is much like linking to the washington times, what is said isn’t said by reporters, and it has never been news. it is a religious front for the political desires of a sociopath.
and lest one forget GE and other conglmerations that own the airwaves, for we have no source of real news that isn’t under the control of the goverment, except for the internet, and everyone knows it.
Do you remember? the TVnews show that used to put up such a disclaimer on air? (CNBC or MSNBC if memory serves me) they said who the person was paid by, if they were politically affiliated, etc.. It lasted for a few minutes and it was gone. didn’t fit good entertainment. it was not compatible with the infotainment propgated by any tv news service. we can’t take this junk as valid, and there don’t appear to be any exceptions.
I have never had a harsh thing to say about the truth and this site before, I ask that you remember to label something that is fictional in advance. A disclaimer in advance on many products and services could change the world. just think of the things you would not have involved yourselves in if you had fine print to read before you said the magic words or signed on the dotted line.
I consider this the best site there is reporting the exact facts, with very little commentary. take that next step and be sure there is no bias possible in what you report.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:14 pmunbelievable
March 30th, 2006 at 5:20 pmin reference to what counts as a moonbat, please refer to post 210
#207 Wow, great minds think alike, and apparently so do mine and Tundra’s.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
So do insane minds… :)
I don’t touch anything assosiated with any organized religions for science or news. I get my sceince from scientists, and journalism from journalists. Of course, both are usually located in other countries… sad.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:25 pmOldtree:
acknowledge them is demeaning to anyone that is concerned about truth, and truth only, ie; a progressive
I consider this the best site there is reporting the exact facts, with very little commentary. take that next step and be sure there is no bias possible in what you report.
Some people like you feel that 100% of everything on the left is always correct and 100% of the stuff on the right is 100% wrong. People like Rush Limbaugh are exact opposites of you. There is a large group of us between extreme right and extreme left who believe that neither party is 100% perfect on every issue.
You are needed because the blind follower on each side is what keeps them going.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:26 pmSquegee,
I have really only heard troll in reference to IRI, Mighty aphrodite etc. I have always taken it to describe a right winger, just as moonbat describes a left winger. you are correct in the belief that it could refer to anyone who posts flaming comments to side track a theread. I personally have never considered it that way.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:28 pmin reference to what counts as a moonbat, please refer to post 210
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 5:20 pm
Oh… anyone who disagrees with you, then? ;)
Well, you guys have certainly been more civil than the usual conservatives around here. I’ve enjoyed talking with you. But right now I need to get dinner started (don’t tell the feminists that I cook, they’ll really kick me out of the club :). Be back later…
March 30th, 2006 at 5:29 pm#212 I have found that BBC world news tends to be far more informative then US news services.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:30 pm#212
One of the most ringing endorsement I ever recieved for the CSM was from a Lebanese Muslim professor that I had, while taking a middle east course, because he felt they painted the best picture of what was actually happening in the area.
Sure, it is owned by a church, but give it a try for a week or two, and I think you’ll be pleasantly suprised. (As long as you don’t realise its my secret attempt to convert everyone on this site to the specific church its owned by)
March 30th, 2006 at 5:33 pm#214 “you are correct”
Ah yes, now time to relax and saviour the victory…life is good. Sure its a small one, but this is the snow flake that starts the avalanche, move over Olberman and O’reilly, here comes squegeeboo
March 30th, 2006 at 5:37 pm#214 “you are correctâ€
Ah yes, now time to relax and saviour the victory…life is good. Sure its a small one, but this is the snow flake that starts the avalanche, move over Olberman and O’reilly, here comes squegeeboo
jeez don’t let it go to your head. =P
March 30th, 2006 at 5:40 pmWhat is that joke?
winning a debate online is like winning the special olympics, your still retarded.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:41 pm#220 At least that makes me a winning retard, as opposed to a losing one :)
March 30th, 2006 at 5:45 pm220
winning a debate online is like winning the special olympics, your still retarded.
Your just upset that he beat your sister
(JK, Sorry I couldn’t resist)
March 30th, 2006 at 5:48 pmnot a problem, it was a comment meant to be made fun of.
March 30th, 2006 at 5:50 pmJill Carroll freed, attacked by right…
From the Associated Press:Kidnapped U.S. reporter Jill Carroll has been released after nearly three months in captivity, Iraq police and the leader of the Islamic Party said Thursday. She was reported in good condition. She told a Washington Post repor…
March 30th, 2006 at 6:09 pm[...] John Podhoretz provides a vivid example of the typical reaction: It’s wonderful that she’s free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn’t beaten or killed — while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is — I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days. [...]
March 30th, 2006 at 6:31 pmI JUST POSTED THIS ON ORRIN JUDD”S RIGHTWING BLOG, REFERENCED FROM UPDATE III OF THIS SECTION ON JILL CARROLL. CAN BE SEEN AT http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2006/03/did_she_have_a.html .
DO NOTE!!! I AM NOT SPEAKING TO PEOPLE ON THINKPROGRESS!!!
—————————————————————————————–
“Some of you have so much HATE for the human race!! It is unbelieveable!!! The only blog I read is thinkprogressdotorg (which is how I found this hate mongering site) and compared to those “radical left-wingers”. you all are real pieces of work!
Phread01 – YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THESE PEOPLE!!! I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF! “RATIONAL PEOPLE” – yes – about a measly 10% of us —there are not enough of us. There are just too many people who blindly follow the establishment and the absolute crap they spew – this is why we are where we are in this country! WE HAVE NOT BEEN WATCHING THE STORE! And they are robbing this country blind!!!
Do any of you know the history of the Fed. “Rsrv” and how it was formed and how it works and how it directly relates to the deficit??? Do you know about Executive Order 11110?
Don’t you people get it, this is not a two-party system, it’s the N-e-w W-o-r-l-d O-r-d-e-r “a big idea”, right GHWB? It’s one agenda disguised as two – world gov’t, cashless society, break up of the family – F-A-S-C-I-S-M. And I am ready to leave this country.
And all of you brainless idiots out there who don’t think the NWO will serve YOUR head on a platter TOO are just wrong. You are the ones with the STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. You are the ones loyal to your captors and unwilling to look at them with an OBJECTIVE, UNBIASED regard.
It is more COMFORTABLE for you to sit back and take their word as “God” rather than actually THINKING CRITICALLY and asking yourself, “Cui bono??????”
You people need to understand that if you don’t speak up when atrocities are being committed to other people, who will speak up for you when it is your turn???
Get a clue, you Big Brother lovin’ sociopaths, on The Big Picture – you know, the one the entire outside world sees.
Oh yeah, and get ready for M-artial L-aw after the next at-t-ack the N-W-O is planning. They’re practicing in iraq as we speak.
One more thing, for those of you who will trash me after this posting, and I may or may not come back to this hatemongering site – but let me tell you, I am an 11th generation MAYFLOWER descendant and I love this country and all of the wonderful things that go with it, that I did not mention and do truly appreciate. But I figured out who has the most to gain by making this country a nightmare and taking our freedoms away – and it was not “al-C-I-A-da.”
March 30th, 2006 at 6:39 pm#206 You can go to Hotel Palestine. American tanks bomb it when there are independant journalists. Pretty safe.
March 30th, 2006 at 6:58 pmMs.Carroll must be SO touched by all of the good wishes extended to her by the Republicans, upon her release this morning. It’s just so nice, the way that the Republicans work SO hard to further “enhance” our current “image”, LOUD and PROUD, for all the world to see. It’s a “sight”‘all right, sends a chill right down my spine. Yes, it does.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:04 pmI think the ‘traitors’ have been the people paid to report the news that have been spoonfeeding the public this sick agenda of preemptive war and occupation, domestic spying, and smearing people who disagree. All being done by the way in the name of the American people. We won’t like what history has to say about this, but I wouldn’t want to be one to record history, either. I’d be too sick and disgusted.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:21 pmWonderful maybe the CSM , will start hiring muslims to interview muslim! Something to think about then this little blue eyed cuety can tend to getting a real job at the Washington Post. You know if she was in Saudi Arabia she would have became some shiek concubine. CSM stop sending you white girls to islamic nation’s don’t you know what happens to them. Geez wake up Amerikkka. Plz somebody give me a pepsi or something the simpson is about to come on FOX.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:47 pmWonderful maybe the CSM , will start hiring muslims to interview muslim! Something to think about then this little blue eyed cuety can tend to getting a real job at the Washington Post. You know if she was in Saudi Arabia she would have became some shiek concubine. CSM stop sending you white girls to islamic nation’s don’t you know what happens to them. Geez wake up Amerikkka. Plz somebody give me a pepsi or something the simpson is about to come on FOX.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:47 pmIf John Podhoretz had the BALLS to actually step foot into Iraq, which he does not, and which puts him far below Jill Caroll in almost everyone’s eyes, he would know that she wears those clothes, and I am quite sure wore them before she was kidnapped, in order to try to blend in, and to not attract attention, to deflect kidnap attempts. It did not work for her, but nevertheless, I am sure those are the clothes she was captured in.
Note to John Podhoretz: try to grow some gonads so you can go to Iraq, the way you are urging young lower class men to do, to actually get some facts and know what you are talking about. My guess is that it will never happen.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:57 pmPodhoretz is another Sun Myung Moon Titty Baby(SMMTB) from the right…
Moon not only financed right wing propaganda, he also ran/financed a right wing journalistic farm system. Without Moon these assholes don’t control our country.
From the 1992 article: “Moonstruck: The Reverend and his Newspaper†by Ann Louise Bardach, printed in 2004 in the book Killed, Great Journalism Too Hot to Print by David Wallis.
No, the conservative movement is NOT the product of the free market of ideas, their savior Moon finded and guided them.
Of course the Washington Times being “independent†of Moon’s plans for the planet is a bunch of BS. Moon brags about using his propaganda rag to “influence†America and several editors with more principles than Podhoretz quit the WT. James Whelan the first editor quit saying he had “blood on his hands†for helping Moon.
Read some about how “independent” the WT is here:
http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/2004/10/independent-washington-times.html
Why conservative soul sellers have never figured out that Moon wanted a right wing paper, and funded it with billions he swindled from the Japanese, so he he could move the nation right to make way for the theocrats he was also funding is beyond me – it’s right in front of their faces. Conservatives are Moon’s chumps.
Look what they’ve done to our nation. Moon got his monies worth out of them.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:07 pmAs to her dress. When in Rome do as the Romans do. In short follow local customs. Why make more out of it than that. Moslems men are protective towards women so I believe, except for her captivity, that she probably was well treated. No need to imply more if you have not concrete evidence to the contrary.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:16 pmBig ups for rev moon, He has said that america is the Great Satan and Republican still run tho his troth for money and support. What a fantastic country we live in , led by sellout and c-minus president that got a thing for plant’t that produce powdery white stuff for one sinus blockage.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:17 pmHello?
She was dropped off at the headquarters of an Islamic political party…one which supports the insurgents, by the way.
Then she was trundled down the street to talk to Iraqi interviewers. Not American reporters.
THEN she got to go to the American embassy.
What in the hell did you think she was going to say or do while she was still under the control of Iraqi partisans?
Kee-rist on a broomstick, you guys are stupid?
March 30th, 2006 at 8:37 pmHello?
She was dropped off at the headquarters of an Islamic political party…one which supports the insurgents, by the way.
Then she was trundled down the street to talk to Iraqi interviewers. Not American reporters.
THEN she got to go to the American embassy.
What in the hell did you think she was going to say or do while she was still under the control of Iraqi partisans?
Kee-rist on a broomstick, you guys are stupid.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:37 pmI believe the barbarians identified with Jill Carroll in a way they did not with longtime pro-Iraqi, Margaret Hassam. Even Tokyp Rose had a seductive voice.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Mighty Hypocrite
In what way do you think the barbarians identified with Jill Carroll? Please elaborate.
Could it be possible that some terrorist/insurgent (or whatever you want to call them) groups are more violent than others? I have heard that the negotiation simply isn’t possible with the Al Zarqawi-connected groups, while it sometimes is with some others.
As for Tokyo Rose, that is a generic name for several women who broadcasted Japanese propaganda during WWII; in other words, there were several women with seductive voices doing that work. But I don’t quite understand the connection here between the Tokyo Roses and Jill Carroll or Margaret Hassan. Could you please elaborate?
Incidentally, I very recently had the chance to meet a Japanese aid worker who had been held hostage in Iraq for about a month not quite two years ago. She and her two colleagues were utlimately freed; the next Japanese captured after them ended up beheaded (by an al Zarqawi group).
To I-WRONG-I,
March 30th, 2006 at 9:27 pmIt takes unique stupidity to accuse a reporter for the CHRISTIAN Science Monitor of being a terrorist-sympathizer or leftist f–ktard. Get a grip on reality for once.
Perhaps someone should have asked Jill if her translator had been treated well by her captors. Someone should have told her to wait a few days before making a statement.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:30 pmLora,
Self reflection has given Mighty Moron quite an insight into terrorism, unfortunately it hasn’t brought any enlightment :)
March 30th, 2006 at 9:41 pmOK. Yes her captors killed a man and are desoicable.
What strikes me is how compassionate and humanistic the right wingers are around this womand’s release.
Why they are so filled with love the could be Jesus Christ, himself. It is really awesome, isn’t it?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:05 pmI think Podhoretz is correct. Someone who is under a funadmentalist death sentence for several months needs to have their “gratitude” taken with a big block of salt. This is not a right or left wing issue, but a psychological issue of what happens to people in severely traumatic circumstances. Let’s leave the politics behind and get the poor woman back to the States and into counseling.
Dr. David Hartman
March 30th, 2006 at 10:10 pm#242- Perhaps you know what makes Mr.Podhoretz in ANY WAY qualified to “diagnose” (from 6,000 miles away, no less) the state of mind of Ms.Carroll? He does not know her personally, nor is he a psychologist, or a psychiatrist. He is simply a braying ASS, who has decided that HE knows what she is feeling, and thinking, and is happy to tell her about it. She did not ask for his opinion of her, and I am sure she could care less about the thoughts of this bonehead. I have no doubt she will do what she feels she needs to do, when she needs to do it. She is a SURVIVOR. And I am happy for her.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:41 pmHow come the right wing media lonly focuses on the negative?????
Finally good news from Iraq where torture and death squads didn’t play a role.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:43 pmHow come the right wing media lonly focuses on the negative?????
Finally good news from Iraq where torture and death squads didn’t play a role.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:43 pmHow come the right wing media only focuses on the negative?????
Finally good news from Iraq where torture and death squads didn’t play a role.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:43 pmThe only “fucktards” are the right wingbat, one eye-browed, basement dwelling mouthbreathers who continue to Lewinsky the Dumbya.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:00 pm#107 & #194; Please, please do NOT use the words soldier and IRI in the same sentence. He’s a cowardly chickenhawk eunuch troll who has NO balls to join the army and fight in Iraq. Some us us here REALLY ARE veterans and do NOT wish to dignify the term soldier with THEM. IRI must squat to piss, but in every direction, he pisses INTO the wind.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:55 pm[...] Think Progress has listed of some of the comments which include: Imus Executive Producer Bernard McGuirk: [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 1:27 am[...] What a great ending to what could have been tragic. M’s Carroll wasn’t killed, this has been a big disappoinment apparently for some people. Not only did she disappoint some by living through this ordeal, but dared to say that she was treated well. Let’s define some terms before we go on. Unhinged: the informal definition is to refer to someone as confused or even mentally unbalanced. Which probably does not quite describe the petrid bile that has poured fourth from some conservatives. John Podhoretz, It’s wonderful that she’s free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn’t beaten or killed – while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is – I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days. [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 1:54 am[...] What a great ending to what could have been tragic. M's Carroll wasn't killed, this has been a big disappoinment apparently for some people. Not only did she disappoint some by living through this ordeal, but dared to say that she was treated well. Let's define some terms before we go on. Unhinged: the informal definition is to refer to someone as confused or even mentally unbalanced. Which probably does not quite describe the petrid bile that has poured fourth from some conservatives. John Podhoretz, It's wonderful that she's free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn't beaten or killed – while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is – I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days. [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 2:09 am#156 – “what is the largest source of drugs in the country. (I’ll go ahead and look that one up for you)”
That would be:
Pfizer, Inc.
Now, if you are referring to illegal narcotics, then Ryan is correct. Methamphetamines have accounted for more arrests over the last few years than any other drug although marijuana remains a close second. The war on drugs in this country has been a sham from the get-go. It’s very similar to declaring war on a tactic like, oh I don’t know, terrorism. Neither of those engagements is winnable as they will be perpetual conflicts although for different reasons. If we really want to wage a war on drugs (which should be a war on drug abuse rather than drugs themselves), we need to address some other glaring issues such as poverty. More importantly though, as is mentioned by someone above, simply putting people in prison obviously isn’t working. We need to come up with a better way to handle drug-related offenses (I, personally, believe that some decriminilization would be a small start) that treats the roots of each individual’s addiction. Many incarcerated drug offenders are not in prison for the first time. There is a reason that they keep getting thrown in jail on the same charges over and over. It’s because their addiction is not being treated, in fact in many cases, it’s not even being acknowledged.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:16 am[...] I’ll begin at the beginning, with the National Review’s John Podhoretz (picked up by initially by Think Progress), Podhoretz writes in The Corner: [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 5:15 amWhile I feel the drug laws should be relaxed, until they are, if your caught with weed for example, you just commited a crime.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
Squegeeboo if you ever smoked pot then the only difference between you and those who are incarcerated is they were caught, not whether the federal and state governments consider you a criminal…chance not the act made them criminals in your eyes.
March 31st, 2006 at 6:07 amSure Jill’s kidnappers were a great group of guys – except when they killed her Iraqi interpreter, shot twice to the head, during the abduction.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:59 am[...] No, Mr. Goldberg, unfortunately it’s not just you. [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 9:37 amI don’t know if this has been said or not, but does any of this make you think that the whole affair was for propaganda? Not propaganda for the US public, but for Arabs. Think about it. Why does she continue with the headscarf, etc even after her release?
March 31st, 2006 at 9:41 am[...] Today the Right Blogosphere is swarming over the critical news that Borders Books refuses to stock a magazine that published the Danish Mohammed cartoons. Other recent blogswarms involved displays of the Mexican flag. For the past couple of days righties have labored mightily to assure themselves that the opinions offered by some retired FISA judges was the opposite of what the judges actually said it was. They’re still picking through the intelligence garbage dumped by John Negroponte. John Podhoretz of the National Review criticizes the just-released Jill Carroll for not being anti-Muslim enough. And for the past several days a number of them, led by John Fund, have been obsessed over a former Taliban member enrolled at Harvard. [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 9:51 amJason, on the video I have seen she is still in the hands of Iraqi authorities, perhaps she was not allowed to change, remember they are a country under Islamic law now. And we are assuming that there is something for her to change into. Perhaps at the moment her stuff and her are in two different locations.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:15 amJill Carrol is a fraud, she was never captive, and made this whole thing up for the attention of the government on the womens situation in Iraq.
Jill Carrol was never captive, look carefully at her body language
March 31st, 2006 at 10:17 amWho REALLY kidnapped her and why was it done in the first place? Is the Shock and Awe cabal responsible?
March 31st, 2006 at 10:41 am#260 If you want to talk about body language, go to the thread where scalia makes the gesture to “go get it in the ass” in Church.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:11 am#255 Sure Jill’s kidnappers were a great group of guys – except when they killed her Iraqi interpreter, shot twice to the head, during the abduction.
Sure USA soldiers were a great group of guys – except when they bombed Baghdad, Falluhah, etc., or when they killed whole families, including babies, allied countries agents, bombed hotels full of international journalists, used white phosporus against civilians, filled the whole country with depleted uranium, tortured people at prison, during all these three years of unjust war, invasion and ocupation of a foreing country, who had nothing ado with 9/11.
Talk about generalizations, pal.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:17 amIRI is completely insane. he lies about being in the army, and now lies about going to china. I call bullshit. he claims to have experience in EVERYTHING.
vfba is a fucking moron. yeah – she captured herself. genius.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:36 am[...] Think Progress is cataloguing comments from those in the US media and blogosphere about Carroll, including this gem from Don Imus show producer Bernard McGuirk: She strikes me as the kind of woman who would wear one of those suicide vests. You know, walk into the — try and sneak into the Green Zone. [...]
March 31st, 2006 at 11:50 amOf course, there is something wrong with her. No matter what you do there is something wrong with you. How else could everybody be in despwerate need of the theraputic touchy feelies? The only groups more prevalent than lawyers – psychologists and realtors. Ergo, you posta be in court or a bit nuts as you buy and sell. Being abducted is disease; and treatable for a fee, as in reasonable attorney’s fees.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:02 pmShe’s a liberal fucktard but even so I’m glad she’s not dead..really. I mean that. I do hope she finds another country to live in though.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #198
ALL Progressive humans who want the world to once again be round…
…who crave for accountability for the incompetence, corruption, mass murdering, thieving and lying perpetrated against this once great nation…
…because of the actions of sick, psychotic, TREASONOUS, right wing inbred Bushites like the incestuous al Cracker- IRI…
…should not rest until…
…these subhuman, hyperchromosomal, degenerate, cowardly, scum…
like IRI, Antonin Scumlia, Tom DeLay, J Podwhoretz, everyone at NRO, the unAmerican spectator, the ENTIRE CRIMINAL BUSHITE regime, and all of their supporters/cult members…
…are permanently subterranean
March 31st, 2006 at 12:39 pmAmen, Cyra Brown ., #243.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:29 pmJill is an AMERICAN who had the courage to go outside the green zone and talk to real people.
We are the OCCUPIERS of their Country – 97% of the insurgents are IRAQUI people who want the OCCUPIERS – that is U.S.A. – OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY.
Let them fight it out on their own – the war is over – bring our kids home to help re-build our once great Country – you know – the one the RADICAL RIGHT and NEOCons are in the process of destroying.
The NEOCON RATS are jumping ship.
When, will the RADICAL RIGHT stop slinging CRAP and get a clue?
“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for
March 31st, 2006 at 5:06 pmpeople we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
-Noam Chomsky
And for the past several days a number of them, led by John Fund, have been obsessed over a former Taliban member enrolled at Harvard. […]
Pingback by The Mahablog » Crabs in a Barrel —
I generally agree with your points, but the former Taliban member John Fund has been obsessed about, from my reading (and unless there is another one), is enrolled at Yale–not Harvard. I also saw something neutral about the former Taliban member/Yale student on, I believe, CNN. He often dines at the Jewish Center, as the dietary restrictions are similat to those of Muslims. This should be a great opportunity for a former Taliban member to learn about the good points of the USA–and of Judaism–, but John Fund and his reichwing buddies think the man doesn’t belong here. What jerks!
March 31st, 2006 at 5:07 pmAnd shortly after that picture was taken, this one was taken:
Imagine that, no head dress. Fact Checking is the cryptonite of the reichwinger.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:16 pmLink is here, it seems the blog is now filtering out images.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/aponline/28260.05IRAQ-CARROLL-FREED.sff.jpg
March 31st, 2006 at 5:16 pmFrom the second I saw Jill Caroll speak how decent her captors were to her, I started wondering why she didn’t just call her whole kidnapping as a stay at Club Med. John Podhoretz is right. I sympathize with Jill that she was not provided a wide screen tv, TiVo or pizza at five. Am I alone? No, most reporters recounting her release have that air of disbelief that she’s praising her kidnappers. Is Jill an american hero as multiple morons have suggested? A person is abducted, has a wonderful time, released unharmed, gushing how sweet their captors were… and that makes them a hero?
March 31st, 2006 at 8:01 pmPaul
No kidding, nothing like Podesta rushing to the terrorists defense. I wonder why Jill didn’t mention the murder of her interpretor? Excuse me if I think she was in on this “kidnapping.” Just another terrorist supporting leftist.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:57 pm“This is a premptive attack on anyone who points to Jill Carrolls treatment by her captives as proof that not all insurgents are savage, and brutal. ”
March 31st, 2006 at 10:49 pmNow I assume these are te same terrorists that held her *hostage* and MURDERED her translator.
[...] > http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/30/podhoretz-attacks-carroll/ [...]
April 1st, 2006 at 2:52 am[...] Yesterday I mentioned in “Crabs in a Barrel” that “John Podhoretz of the National Review criticizes the just-released Jill Carroll for not being anti-Muslim enough.” Podhoretz was just the beginning, however. [...]
April 1st, 2006 at 8:40 am#270 – “This should be a great opportunity for a former Taliban member to learn about the good points of the USA–and of Judaism–, but John Fund and his reichwing buddies think the man doesn’t belong here. What jerks!” – Comment by Lora
*****This little “ray of sunshine” tidbit shows why progs can be dangerous if left to their own devices. Maybe we should move this “poser” next door to the kindly Lora. She could introduce him to other great American and Jewish favourites like apple pie, baseball and latkes. After this progressive experiment, we can introduce released child molesters and perverts to her heighbourhood – but only those who have served their time and would benefit from being inundated with neighbourhood normalcy. I seem to recall several of the 9/11 hijackers partaking of good clean American fun – like strip clubs and bars….
April 1st, 2006 at 1:36 pm[...] A couple of comments: 1. The authors of Powerline and other right-wing pundits are not in a position to put Carroll’s experience in its “proper perspective.†At most, they’ve seen a few seconds of video out of an 82-day ordeal. Just because Carroll’s initial comments didn’t fit in with their preferred narrative doesn’t mean there is something wrong with her. [...]
April 1st, 2006 at 3:11 pm#278 Mighty Hypocrite
April 1st, 2006 at 7:13 pmSorry that you are too stupid and hard-headed to see the difference between someone who at a very young age served as a spokesman for the Taliban and child molesters/perverts. The so-called war on terror is not going to be won simply by bombing neighborhoods in Iraq but through education. Hasn’t Bush been sending Karen Hughes to some Muslim countries for that reason:–ie. to tell them how wonderful the US is? Do you think it would be more effective to send the former Taliban spokesman to Gitmo? Do you think that is the best way for him to come out with some fondness for the US (and Jews)?
I got the impression from John Fund’s silly vendetta about this ex-Taliban member is partly out of jealousy that he himself didn’t go to Yale. Maybe the same holds true for you.
By the way, after badgering me about what I did about Rwanda on a different thread, you never answered my question about what you did.
Wow.A lot of verbiage.Some coments on Jill Carroll and some of the above comments.First,I think Ms.Carroll’s bravery should be acknowledged.It can’t be compared to a soldier’s,but is only one level removed,and should be acknowledged.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:38 pmSince she has retracted her comments vis a vis’ her “nice” captors,I wonder aabout how it will cause a cognitive dissonance some of the above commenters.Certainly my favorite is “Pat Walters”,#52 comment on “sociopaths’,”"slimeballs”,etc.and of course Jesus Christ and George Bush.Cyra Brown#132 is a close second.Why would anyone expect a kidnappee to be truthful when still at risk?Cyra,I strongly suspect you of having been a Fine AArts or maybe a sociology major.Please please please,take a basic science class,even “Astronomy for Dummies” to prove you can think before exposing yourself to shame and ridicule again.
[...] For the MSM, keeping silent was the problem. Then there are the people across the blogosphere who were busy defending the statements Carroll made under duress (”It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.”) Did they stop to think about what they were saying? Or is it simply their reflex to defend the indefensible? [...]
April 1st, 2006 at 8:51 pmHa Ha !!
April 1st, 2006 at 10:39 pmThis is the first paragraph of an AP article available at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060402/ap_on_re_eu/carroll, and probably other places.
I wonder how long it will be for the “she was only telling the truth” folks on this page start criticizing Ms Carroll for not saying what the want to hear?
Just a thought.
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:29 am“she would have gotten clothes from her captors”
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:22 amWell that’s alright then.
Sounds a bit like Patty Hearst and the Simbionese Liberation Front.
During my last night of captivity, my captors forced me to participate in a propaganda video. They told me I would be released if I cooperated. I was living in a threatening environment, under their control, and I wanted to go home alive. So I agreed.
Things that I was forced to say while captive are now being taken by some as an accurate reflection of my personal views. They are not. The people who kidnapped me and murdered Alan Enwiya are criminals, at best. They robbed Alan of his life and devastated his family. They put me, my family and my friends – all those around the world – who have prayed so fervently for my release – through a horrific experience. I was, and remain, deeply angry with the people who did this.
I also gave a TV interview to the Iraqi Islamic Party shortly after my release. The party had promised me the interview would never be broadcast or aired on television, and they broke their word. At any rate, fearing retribution from my captors, I did not speak freely. Out of fear I said I wasn’t threatened. In fact, I was threatened many times.
Also, at least two false statements about me have been widely aired: One, that I refused to travel and cooperate with the U.S. military and two, that I refused to discuss my captivity with U.S. officials. Again, neither statement is true.
I want to be judged as a journalist, not as a hostage. I remain as committed as ever to fairness and accuracy – to discovering the truth – and so I will not engage in polemics. But let me be clear: I abhor all who kidnap and murder civilians, and my captors are clearly guilty of both crimes.
Now, I ask for the time to heal. This has been a taxing 12 weeks for me and for my family. Please allow us some quiet time alone, together.
- Jill Carroll
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:01 amI guess #286 ends this stupid debate.
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:21 amWow, I guess you feel like an idiot now, Judd. :)
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:58 amPoor Judd, it has to hurt to be so wrong — and so wrong publically — about something. When are you going to apologize? An intellectually honest man would, anyway.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:05 amOnce again, you Lefties are proven to be 100% wrong. Your reliable fallibility is getting boring.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:05 am#286 — Wonder what Karl Rove did to get her to change her story.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:09 am#291 – Your tin foil hat is crooked. Please adjust it. Otherwise, you’ll look silly.
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:01 am[...] Jonah Goldberg and John Podhoretz of the National Review feel this statement somehow justifies their attacks on Carroll in the hours after her release. It doesn’t. [...]
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:21 am“She’s Safe in the Green Zoneâ€
She’s safe in the green zone, but will home paint her red?
Will the news repeat words she bleed, again and again?
My patriotism can die for her who’s not dead
“With machine guns pointed at my head, †she said,
“I unfortunately damned my country’s military men.â€
She’s safe in the green zone, but will home paint her red?
The picture stills show she’d been well fed
With food of fear, but our prayers sent—Amen!
My patriotism can die for her who’s not dead
We now wait for forced words like pestilant spread
To fly April skies like a broken winged Wren
She’s safe in the green zone, but will home paint her red?
Will we forget the tears we easily shed?
Cheer the strike and the slash from the powerful pen?
My patriotism can die for her who’s not dead
So I ask for your scruples to now be proofread
April 2nd, 2006 at 10:42 amShe’s trapped again like a toddler in a baracaded playpen
She’s safe in the green zone, but will home paint her red?
My patriotism can die for her who’s not dead
Jeeeze, did you even read what Goldberg and JPod wrote? They didn’t attack her, they pointed out that she was probably not telling the truth when she said good things about her captors. Whether it was due to Stockholme Syndrome or just a lie to stay alive, that is all they said she was probably doing.
And, wow, they were right.
Don’t ya hate that when that happens?
April 2nd, 2006 at 10:50 amYou site’s comments on Jill Carroll’s remarks were all wrong. Are we going to see some ackowledgement of how you were so duped and mean-spirited? Are you going to publicly apologize?
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:34 pmShe’s just ended an experience in which she was forcibly detained, her companion was murdered, and her captors publicly threatened to behead her, yet “It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other [such as -- duh! -- threats] than a desire to tell the truth.”
You guys are so reliably moronic in virtually everything you say. Idiots.
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:50 pmBe a man and apologize to Messers Podhoretz and Goldberg. To do otherwise would only solidify your already putrid reputaion for being a lying, sniviling, hate-monger of the first order. You love to get on your moral high horse and look down your nose at the conservatives who you feel are intellectually superior and less sophisticated than you. But when you are proven wrong, you run and hide like a little child. How pitiful!
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:56 pmThe Left are a bunch of cowboys … shooting from the hip all the time … they can only hope to hit the broad side of a barn only occasionally … and then fancy themselves as sharpshooters. Yes, if you continuously shoot from the hip you will eventually hit something at some time, but with the left, their guns ar usually aimed at their own feet. This time they’ve shot themselves in the foot yet again … with a bazooka!
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:30 pmLOL….where’s the truth to power now??
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:35 pmJust curious if you left wing moonbats will now admit that you were absolutely, 100% wrong about Jill Carroll. She was threatened, she was terrorized and her statement was entirely coerced and a false. Then again, that is probably too much to expect from the sort of “people” who actively root for the victory of Islamofascist swine. The only good thing I could say about such a victory is that the moonbats would, in all likelihood be the first group to be dragged out into the town square for a collective beheading.
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:36 pm***crickets chirping***
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:45 pm#292 — I think #291 was being sarcastic. Uh, wasn’t he?
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:55 pmAfter following this story now for a couple of days, all I can conclude is that the fools that have funded Podesta’s dream here have sure wasted a lot of money. This whole episode makes the lunatic lefty fringe look like a bunch of vapid intellectual boneheads; I suspect that much of the country already had reached that conclusion long before this incident.
April 2nd, 2006 at 4:03 pmWhy is it that the only idiots to attack Jill Carroll all came from the right? Are they too stupid to understand that her comments were made under duress? They jumped all over her in minutes. Now that they truth has come out, where all all these fascist bloggers and MSM members who bashed her? Most of them are still defending their comments, making them look even worse. They all owe her and her family a huge apology.
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:09 pmI really can’t figure out why the left can’t win elections in the USA….LOL
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:09 pmThe statements were made under duress. The National Review folks guessed correctly. Where’s the update?
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:00 pmThe last two sentences of your story:
It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth. Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
Podhoretz was dead right, you were dead wrong.
April 2nd, 2006 at 11:05 pmAnd you were, as usual, insufferably holier-than-thou. Such vanity.
“Totally inappropriate” indeed.
” It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
”
Ahahahahahah! What a fucking idiot you are!!!
April 2nd, 2006 at 11:59 pm[...] Hitting the “publish” button before thinking hard can cause troubles. It is useful to understand what’s going on before hitting that button. (I often hold my fire for exactly this reason–let the problem generate; ensure you have a curve and not random dots before declaring a solution.) [...]
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:00 am[...] The one example Art gives is this quote from Think Progress, the blog for the Center for American Progress. Art writes: (emphasis in the original) Instead of assuming that something was indeed amiss — such as Carroll being forced to make a statement — the Think Progress blogger responded to Carroll’s passionate anti-Bush attacks in a positve way, because it matched the vituperative terms we on the left often use. He concluded, ” This is a day that we should celebrate Jill Carroll’s courage. She put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq. It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.” [...]
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:31 pm***chirp***
***chirp***
[wind whistling through the trees]
April 4th, 2006 at 12:14 amWow, is it really this silent now? I am posting just to make sure that comments are still open. If so, it’s like scoring a touchdown to silence the opponent at their home field. Not even a blog update about the fact you were wrong on this, a 300+ post link?!? Political ideology can’t be more important than good blogging, can it? It takes a real man (and competent blogger) to admit mistakes; integrity can still be kept intact…
April 4th, 2006 at 7:27 pmThis is the funniest blog thread EVER! It’s like when Emily Litella gets caught confusing ‘Jewry’ with ‘jewelry’ – only in this case there’s not even the ‘Nevermind…’ part. Just crawl away and hide like a little child. Beautiful!
I definitely hear crickets chirping and the wind rustling through the leaves now. What an embarassment! You make Alan Colmes look like William F. Buckley! All conservatives are laughing their respective asses off at you. You’re a joke. Give Podesta his money back.
April 5th, 2006 at 5:20 amNot one post in twenty four hours time? Suddenly the angry left has nothing to say?
You people are pathetic.
April 6th, 2006 at 5:29 amIt makes me sick to read those negative comments on a “human†who managed to win back her life. None of you!!! Have any idea how it feels to be in her shoes, no matter which side you are on “pro-war or not†if you go though few seconds; of what she had to live with, you would not say that. I, was and still am a pro-war in Iraq. Does it make me any less of being a terrorist when “I†myself managed to escape because I gambled for an option? Leave her a lone and let her pull her life back, I read these ugly comments about me when I escaped. And it was said that because of … so.. and so.. I managed to come out of it a live… all was bull shit my beheading was “HALAL†if you ever know what that word means, and I bet Ms. Jill’s head was too. You can never be satisfied or happy with what you have, sit back and think how lucky you are…. Sit back and appreciate her courage to what she had done…â€YOU GO GIRL.. YOU DID IT .(Former hostage in Iraq) …..
April 7th, 2006 at 2:53 amJill Carrol is a traitorous bitch. She is anti-American, anti-military, and obviously has a weak spot for the enemy.
Her statements show clearly how she feels. She would have been happier remaining in the hands of her “captors”.
I can’t wait to hear more from her…on hoe islam is the Religion of Peace ™ and how gentle and kind the muslims are, how they are misunderstood….
Tell that to Nick Berg, or the 3,000 who dies on 9/11.
There is a special place reserved in hell for traitors….
April 21st, 2006 at 3:03 pmNot one post in twenty four hours time? Suddenly the angry left has nothing to say?
You people are pathetic.
Comment by Lothar — April 6, 2006 @ 5:29 am
Why respond to sycophants, idiots who have no clue. One way to help guys, go to Iraq. They really need patriots such as yourself. Okay Lothar, the left has responded, I want to know if you are going to volunteer.
August 13th, 2006 at 10:10 pmI anxiously await J-Pod’s condemnation of the two Fox News reporters who, after two weeks of captivity in Gaza, made anti-American statements and videotaped conversions to Islam.
August 27th, 2006 at 9:25 pm