John Podhoretz Attacks Jill Carroll
Today, Christian Science Monitor reporter Jill Carroll released after three months of being held in captivity in Iraq by kidnappers. The National Review’s John Podhoretz responded by attacking her mental state:
It’s wonderful that she’s free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn’t beaten or killed — while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is — I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.
This is a day that we should celebrate Jill Carroll’s courage. She put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq. It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
UPDATE: Imus Executive Producer: Carroll is “The Kind of Woman Who Would Wear One of Those Suicide Vests, Sneak Into the Green Zoneâ€
UPDATE II: Andrew Sullivan agrees JPod was out of line.
UPDATE III: Right-wing author and blogger Orrin Judd says Carroll’s comments prove “she was a willing participant” in her own kidnapping.
UPDATE IV: Powerline’s John Hinderaker joins in: “…I want to register a small protest against her statement, widely quoted in the press, that she was ‘well treated’ by her captors. This is a sentiment that one often hears from people who have been released by kidnappers; one gets the sense that the victims are grateful–understandably, perhaps–to the terrorists for letting them go.”
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Wow, that was fast.
Operation Yellow Elephant continues…
March 30th, 2006 at 9:58 amThis ain’t very nice of me, but I kind of wish they had kidnapped John Podperson instead.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:00 amThis is a day that we should celebrate Jill Carroll’s courage. She put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq. It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
Nonsense, she was just another anti-war agitator kissing up to the poor victims of American aggression and crapping on the graves of American servicemen killed in action. Of course she wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:01 amJill is an American hero.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:02 amJohn is a tired old Reichwingnut.
Welcome back, Jill!
We need someone like Jill as our
Secretary of State.
You know, someone who can actually
talk with people of other cultures instead
of appearing on 3 different Sunday news
shows at the same time and never saying
anything true or accurate.
What the hell? Aren’t these morons always whining about how the media never tells us all the “good news” in Iraq, then when there is good news, they flip flop it? My brain freaking hurts! Must…drink…alcohol.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:03 amStockholm Syndrome. Know what that is? It doesn’t matter if Carroll would want to tell the truth, Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological condition that will alter the truth in your head. John Podhoretz isn’t attacking her, he is speculating that people will be talking about Stockholm Syndrome because of what she has said. Kind of like saying, when Cheney shot his friend in the face, that people are going to talk about resignation or even manslaughter. That’s perfectly legitimate, and hey, that also happened. People did speculate on whether Cheney’s friend was going to die, and whether Cheney would step down.
Pointing out the obvious, that someone is going to say something soon, is not an “attack”. How starved for material are you people?
I guess the whole “FISA Judges Say Bush Had Authority For Surveillance” doesn’t really fly around here, so you’re stuck with creating smoke where there is no fire.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:05 amPodhoretz is using the Bill Frist video diagnostic technique and we all know how well that works. I happy she’s safe!
March 30th, 2006 at 10:06 amFORGET ABOUT WHAT “J POD” OWES JILL; I THINK WE OWE “J POD” SOMETHING. LET’S ALL CHIP IN AND GET THE POD A TICKET TO BAGDHAD! WHY CRITICIZE FROM “THE CORNER” WHEN YOU CAN PUT YOURSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR TO GET A STORY?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:12 amI see the Bush trolls are on this story like flies to tackpaper > lol. She got released alive and everyone should be happy, but I think the Bushites wanted her head cut-off probably?!
March 30th, 2006 at 10:12 amPodhoretz:
“If Jill Carroll says how horrible her captors were and how right George Bush was to launch the war, the she’a hero.”
“If she’ says anything other than that, ignore her. Stockholm Syndrome. You can’t trust her to tell the truth about her capivity, because she got unhinged.”
“You can trust me, however, because I’m six thousand miles away in my office.”
March 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amIRI, I’m still waiting for you to get your “patriotic” ass over to Iraq and file a first-hand personal report for us.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:18 am#3 Of course [Jill Carroll] wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
So you want to kill and torture her, Mr. Reich-between-the-eyes?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:18 amWONDER WHAT SHE’D LOOK LIKE IF SHE JUST CAME OUT OF ABU GHRAIB?
SHE WOULDN’T HAVE COME OUT?
OH, YEAH, RIGHT…….
March 30th, 2006 at 10:19 amWould Podhoretz and the trolls here be more satisfied if Carroll were beheaded?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:20 amRegardless of whether or not you support her being there, is it too much to ask for a little compassion from the cold and heartless conservatives? I guess when you have ice in your veins and are a rabid Republican, this would be the reaction.
YOU’RE RIGHT. I’M AN IDIOT.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:20 amAnother example of right wing backlash from the media’s reporting of “good news” from Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:22 amNonsense, she was just another anti-war agitator kissing up to the poor victims of American aggression and crapping on the graves of American servicemen killed in action. Of course she wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
You tell them, IRI. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they should have cut off her fucking head, huh?
But as a journalist for the Christian Science Moniter, wasn’t she trying to report on all the GOOD news Bush and Cheney and other conservatives complain that go unreported by the mainstream media?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:22 am#7 You know exactly what he is doing. He, like most repubs these days, is beginning a preemptive semi-attack just in case he doesn’t like what she says. He is merely covering all bases. What a joke.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:23 amYALL THINK YER SO SMARTY PANTZ. YER STOOPID. YOU LIBS. ARE GRATE LEEDER NOS EXACTLIE WHAT HE IS DOIN. YOU DONT NO NOTHIN.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am#16 Yes, you are.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:24 am#18 exactly, she was out in the streets unlike people like Laura Ingrham. Being out in the streets looking for those stories got her kidnapped.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:26 am#3 I agree, Christians are full of it.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:26 amSo she was liberated because the GOP has stopped the last great military operation? Maybe the GOP is appeasing the therrrrrrists?
March 30th, 2006 at 10:27 amHow much did we PAY to get her back? were her keepers off premesis too.We are living in Oceana.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:32 amYou got it right, #22.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I bet Laura Ingraham is pissed. Her recent Iraqi trip to interview the Commanding Genearal in the safety of the Green Zone being upstaged by this little gal’s release after 3 months in captivity.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:33 amCarroll Released, Wingnuts Attack…
You’d think people would be happy that Christian Science Monitor reporter Jill Carroll has been released, and reports that she wasn’t mistreated during her captivity in Iraq. But some people already have a problem with it.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:35 amToday, Christian …
A young Christian woman
Was given a new pair of shoes.
They were made of cowhide
And needn’t tying or polishing.
She wore them for days on end,
Obediently walking in tow
For what seemed an eternity,
Until she was standing at the
Beautiful brown feet of Allah.
“You must give the shoes back now.â€
“To whom?†she asked.
God then motioned downward
Toward a group of young patriots
Weeping plaintively.
“There. They need them now, Jill,
So they might go home.â€
She then removed the new shoes
And dropped them from the sky
…like a bomb.
http://apoeticjustice.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-shoes.html
March 30th, 2006 at 10:36 am…while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is…
Huh? She dressed like that before she was captured, so that she could go out in the streets and do her fecking job. Women reporters do it all the time in Muslim countries so they don’t offend people, and to fit in better. I’ve seen Christiane Ammanpour wearing a hijab before.
What an idiot.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:38 amC’mon, IRI–put your ass where your mouth is and get over to Iraq so you can report all the good news back to us.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:39 amThis young woman has more raw courage in her little finger than all the NeoCons put together. Podhoretz and his kind are nothing more than white trash. Of course, they don’t like the fact that she doesn’t act as a media whore.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:45 amPodhoretz suggests we can expect some “Stockholm Syndrome” from Jill Carroll. I suggest we already get a lot of “Limbaugh Syndrome” from Podhead.
LS is when, from the safety of a desk chair, you hurl into a microphone or a computer, as if you’d just imbibed the elixir of the Gods and felt compelled (usually at a certain payment rate per liter) to share it with others.
It reminds me of when Nelson Mandella was released from a South African prison after (I think it was) 23 years. Limbaugh was all over that huge man, ridiculing him, mocking his speech, as if Limbaugh could ever hope to be more than a wart on Mandella’s ass.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:48 amOne would assume that when she was kidnapped, she wasn’t carrying a suitcase with her. So, unless she was willing to wear the same clothes for three solid months, she would have gotten clothes from her captors, who likely don’t shop at the Mall of the Americas.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:53 am“Stockholm Syndrome.” That pretty much explains the die-hard 32% who still approve of W.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:02 amGod, what an asshole! I mean, taking hostages isn’t nice business, but the fact that they didn’t behead her would make her appreciative to an extent, I’d imagine…
for all the Republicant complaints about only bad news coming from Iraq, this and the rescue of the Christian Peacemakers surely haven’t made them too happy…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:06 amShe put herself in danger to try to give the world a more accurate picture of Iraq
Leave it to liberals to confuse “courage” with stupidity. Like really, a female going to a war zone in an area with a violent religion that oppresses females? STUPID - DUH.
Even after her kidnapping she still is blinded as to the enemy. Yet, this is someone liberals identify with as being intelligent - DUH.
Maybe some liberals can get her and Cindy Sheehan together - wow, think of the goosebumps!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:07 amPodhoretz is attempting to show that he remembers “Stockholm Syndrome” from Psych 101 in college. Who freaking cares what he thinks? He needs to get to Iraq and see how is is to actually be on the ground and report real news. His opinion is probably important to himself, but the rest of the world is asking, “Who is this fool?”
March 30th, 2006 at 11:08 amCan’t this guy let Jill Carroll get a breath and maybe get out of Iraq before he decides he knows everything. He just had to scoop all the other wingnuts.
#21 - Amen.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:09 amThe Pod is a pimple on the ass of progress, and needs to be incised.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:12 amwhat the fuck does he know when he says this
i remember seeing stories of her coverage prior to her kidnapping and she treated the culture with respect and did not wear western clothes while there
March 30th, 2006 at 11:12 amJustaDog, quit flapping your gums and show us your courage by signing up and fighting the “terrorists” over in Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:15 amI expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.
Does anyone feel this is a false statement?
It is totally inappropriate to assume that her description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth
One could argue that it is wrong to ASSUME that the above statement meant any more than what the words put together say.
Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:18 amSo if the first statement is correct (Considering we are in a thread now about it. Podhoretz should apologize for stating an unpopular truth?
Surely degrading this woman by forcing her to wear muslim clothes when she is NOT muslim is an outrage. Certainly more outrageous than a few harmless fraternity-type pranks like naked pyramids and glow stick sodomy and accidentally getting shot in the face.
The right has completely lost it. They aren’t even grasping at straws anymore…they don’t even know where the straws are.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:20 am#36 in your mind yesterday the press is not reporting enough good, but if they arttempt to report on the good and get killed, maimed or kidnapped, it’s their fault for going intoa dangerous situation. In other words it’s a no win situation for them, unless of course they sit back in New York, or LA and criticise the press in Iraq for reporting the bad stuff. They are damed if they do and damned if they don’t.
Well if you think it is too dangerous for the press to go out and report (I’m inferrng that from your stupidity cvomment) then that would seem sto indicate that things are not quite as rosey in Iraq as the Neo convicts seem to want the public to believe.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:20 am#36…… Courage is what differentiates a REAL reporter from the faux reporters. The majority of Americans DO NOT believe what the bush/cheney pubiliticy machine is putting out about anything. If bush/cheney actaully allowed the truth to be told, reporters would not have to face the risks imposed upon them when attempting to tell Americans what is really taking place in Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:22 amMy father was a ring-wing pessimist and my mother a progressive optimist.
He died at 59 after a 12 year battle with cancer.
She is 62 and healthier than people half her age, even though she’s been smoking since she was 14, and still eats crap I wouldn’t feed to my cats.
Both of their parents died from cancer and heart disease. It’s not the genes. It’s the attitude. And
March 30th, 2006 at 11:24 amJill will outlive John in age, by decades.
Podhoretz should apologize for stating an unpopular truth?
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 11:18 am
Remind me again; who was one of the biggest cheerleaders for our involvement in Iraq? His “unpopular truths” got her in this fix in the first place (not to mention the deaths of thousands of soldiers). Cheerleading Bush to war, and then criticizing someone captured in a war he helped start, pretty much de-legitimizes any opinions he might hold.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:27 amAmerican Hostage Jill Carroll Free (Updated)…
American journalist Jill Carroll has been freed by her captors. This post will be updated throughout the day. Jill Carroll had been held hostage for nearly three months by a terrorist organization calling itself ‘The Revenge Brigades’. The group kill…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:27 amIs this what they call tossing a bone to the lions? Geez. There’s no meat on it! Stop the insanity!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:28 amSeixon, comment #7, you are right. He was just making a comment.
But I’ll bet she was treated well.
Those Arabs, to the best of my knowledge, don’t humiliate people. They don’t make them disrobe and then put them in pyramids. They don’t have contests to make them urinate and defecate in fear. They don’t make them masturbate in public. They don’t desecrate their religion.
Sure, they cut their heads off, occassionally, but I’m sure that it’s fast and swift. At least as fast and swift as Apache helicopter gunships seding missiles into neighborhoods full of women and children.
The USA humiliates its enemies.
I’m getting off the subject.
Still, even in 2006, US prisoners get treated better than any–make that any–other prisoners in the world.
But, that will change.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:30 amThey let her go.
Think about how many they have not let go.
What’s the difference?
Something Bush will never understand… in this world you get what you give.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:31 amEasily predicted.All the redneck slimeballs come out from under their rocks and attack the victim because she did’nt have to pay a higher price.Lot of sociopathic thinking going on.And the religious right will probably put their two cents worth in,forgetting to ask themselves “what would Jesus do”.All in support of that sorry son of a bitch,George W.Bush.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:31 amMore armchair reporting from these fucktards. If Podperson had as much balls as Jill Carroll, then maybe he could even think about commenting on her experience, but alas, he remains firmly entrenched at his keyboard. What a loser. Perhaps if they had killer her, he would be hailing her as a hero and victim of terrorists that we’re supposed to be fighting.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:32 am#52 Jesus wouldn’t do anything, he’s been dead for roughly 2k years.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:33 am.All the redneck slimeballs come out from under their rocks and attack the victim because she did’nt have to pay a higher price.Lot of sociopathic thinking going on.
Comment by Pat Walters — March 30, 2006 @ 11:31 am
The very same guys who blame the rape victim for wearing a short skirt…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:34 amWith the Neocons what it is is that they were hoping that she would have been executed. They could use her death on multiple levels. First they could tout it as proof that the muslums are all blood thirsty savages. The could use it to further inflame the passsions of their minions. Secondly they could use it to say stupid liberals going out and getting themselves killed when they know it is dangerous and attack the press from that angle. Of course that angle ignores the claim that things in Iraq are as peaceful as they are in Istanbul, but they get to attack the press and they like that. The other angle they would have loved to use is the do gooders should stay home angle.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:35 am#54,
And judging from the way many Christians act these days, so have his teachings.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:35 amHow long has John Podhoretz been held captive in that ignorant mind of his? What a moron.
As for Jill wearing Islamic garb, if this moron did the minimum amount of reading, he would know that she always dressed like that in Iraq, mainly to blend in, so that the nutjobs wouldnt try to blow her up.
Yet another moron from the right equating Islam with terrorism. Hate begets hate. I wish you, John Podhoretz, a nice evening stroll on the streets of Baghdad. Then you can take your “its not as bad as the media says it is” talking point out for a spin. Moron!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:36 amfor all the Republicant complaints about only bad news coming from Iraq, this and the rescue of the Christian Peacemakers surely haven’t made them too happy…
Comment by Pete Bogs —
Oh yeah, saving the Christian Peacemakers was a good use of time and resources. Basically we “saved” them from their friends. It was probably a put up job from the start. My guess is Jill Carroll begged to kidnapped and when she got tired of the crappy food she walked away. I can’t wait to read her first hand account of the noble freedom fighters who against all odds are winning the war against the American Capitalists occupation.
The Christian Peacemaker Teams volunteers have been in Iraq since October 2002, investigating allegations of abuse against Iraqi detainees by coalition forces. The group says its teams promote peaceful solutions in conflict zones.
Pritchard called for coalition forces to leave the country.
“We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq,” he said.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:37 am#20 You write and spell like Bush’s speech writer. No wonder he can’t even read it. I’m so happy that Jill Carroll was released unharmed. Are the right wing warmongers scared that their messages of the cruelty of our “enemy” may be just another lie and we are not going to believe them anymore.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:39 amAttack the hostage…
It didn’t take long with Jill Carroll….
March 30th, 2006 at 11:40 amYet another moron from the right equating Islam with terrorism. [..]
As for Jill wearing Islamic garb, if this moron did the minimum amount of reading, he would know that she always dressed like that in Iraq, mainly to blend in, so that the nutjobs wouldnt try to blow her up.
Comment by Mash
Fruitcake
March 30th, 2006 at 11:41 amSo let me get this straight…
If you are beheaded like Nick Berg and others…it proves that “Islamofascists” are cruel and unforgiving heathens…….
If you are released without harm by “Islamofascists” it proves YOU are a terrorist…
Huh …what kind of logic is that……?????
I guess because she is not a “good - pro war christian” she is a traitor..
last time I checked being a good christian meant being non-violent….
and so it goes in BushWorld
March 30th, 2006 at 11:42 amNot to threadjack, but way up above some wingnut said: “I guess the whole ‘FISA Judges Say Bush Had Authority For Surveillance’ doesn’t really fly around here, so you’re stuck with creating smoke where there is no fire.”
What is he talking about? I only spent 30 seconds searching, but could not find a reference or source for his FISA claim.
Anyone?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:42 amAttack the hostage…
It didn’t take long with Jill Carroll….
Trackback by ReidBlog
You mean the guest not the hostage right?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amAttack the hostage…
It didn’t take long with Jill Carroll….
Trackback by ReidBlog
You mean the guest not the hostage right?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:43 amThe words and deeds of people like Pudhoretz and Box Turtle Ben, cleary demonstrate that these hacks have a definite lack of morals and characters. For them, everything revolves around avoiding the awful reality that George Bush’s Iraq adventure has been a miserable failure.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:43 am#59,
Put down the crack pipe, man!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:44 am#55 the other day a right ding koolaid drinking ideologue said that Darwin was dead and Jesus was still alive. Which is it? Is he alive in your mind? Or dead as you said?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:47 amAre the right wing warmongers scared that their messages of the cruelty of our “enemy†may be just another lie and we are not going to believe them anymore.
Comment by Ester —
You are impossibly stupid. You should also change your name. Ester is a good Jewish name and terrorist appeasing and headchopping apologist such as yourself should not be allowed to use it.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:48 amWhen I read that she said her captors treated her well, my own first thought was Stockholm syndrome. I think you don’t understand what that is. It’s a typical reaction of kidnap victims and is probably an instinctive survival technique. It does not mean she’s “mental.” Look at the facts: she says she was well treated. Well, being help captive without knowing what’s going to happen to you for three months is NOT being “well treated.” Give her a chance to decompress and she may have other thoughts about the experience. I think you owe John Podhoretz (whom I pretty much despise) an apology.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:54 amJohn Podhoretz is bummed because his rape torture fanatasy by Islamic extemist to a liberal journalist didn’t happen. These right wingers want “good news” from Iraq but, won’t send any of their brethern outside the green zone.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:55 amI’m trying to locate any of Podhoretz’s dispatches from the front. Can any of you help me find those?
It’s OK. I’ll wait…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:56 amJill Caroll’s opinions are not the point right now. The important thing is, she’s free! The people who kidnapped her did a VERY BAD thing, even though I’m extremely happy that they released her.
Whether or not Jill is sypathetic to the political opinions of her captors (via “The Stockholm Syndrome” or just her own ideas), that’s not the point. Reasonable people can disagree and debate each other. It was just so painful to see a frightened young women in just a terrible situation…we should all be relieved that she’s safe!
March 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amI Agree with you but I agree with Podhoretz too….I found the way she dressed was kind of odd, but she is safe and that is the important thing.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amWhat is he talking about? I only spent 30 seconds searching, but could not find a reference or source for his FISA claim.
Anyone?
Comment by mattfwood —
bad news sometimes doesn’t travel in the liberal owned MSM and when it does it’s covered up…like this one [..While the Washington Times said Kornblum’s testimony indicated that the Bush surveillance program did not violate the law, other media outlets interpreted the judges’ comments differently.
]
In a significant vindication for President Bush, a judge who co-authored the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act said Tuesday that the president was duly authorized under the Constitution to order the wiretapping of suspected terrorists - without getting a warrant from the FISA Court.
Testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee, former FISA Court Judge Allan Kornblum said that president’s Constitutional powers supersede the FISA law, which critics claim the Bush program violated.
“If a court refuses a FISA application and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review, the president can under executive order act unilaterally, which he is doing now,” said Kornblum, in quotes picked up by the Washington Times.
http://newsmax.com/ archives/ ic/ 2006/ 3/ 30/ 00303.shtml?s=ic
March 30th, 2006 at 11:58 amOf course she wasn’t mistreated by the terrorists, she’s one of them.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #3
Impudent-Racist-Imbecile,
…isn’t that suite reserved for you in hell ready yet?
You are impossibly stupid. You should also change your name. Ester is a good Jewish name and terrorist appeasing and headchopping apologist such as yourself should not be allowed to use it.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #70
way-to-go IRI,
…spoken like a true Bushite anti-Christian…
…you’re such a MARVELOUS spokesperson for your brand of hypocritical “faith”…
March 30th, 2006 at 11:59 am#64
I believe he is refering to where a couple of the FISA judges that were friends of the neo cons were told a little something about the illegal wire taping and they agreed not to tell the other judges on the FISA court and not to try to force the issue before the court… basically entirely unethical, but that is what they did.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:01 pmI vote we pitch in our pennies and send Podperson over there so he can tell us what is really going on. And while we’re at it, let’s send Kaloogian along to make sure that Podperson is not omitting all the happy happy stuff that reporters like Jill Carroll are deliberately leaving out.
And let’s send I-ASSHAT-I over there with as a human shield. My guess is that he’s eager to prove the accusations of being a cowardly moron wrong, and is moreover just leaping at the chance to put himself in harm’s way for the sake of his Dear Leader and his enablers.
I guarantee you that the results of such a trip would truly be good news.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:03 pmof course she is suffering from stockholm syndrome:
witness:
“Captives begin to identify with their captors initially as a defensive mechanism, out of fear of violence. Small acts of kindness by the captor are magnified, since finding perspective in a hostage situation is by definition impossible. Rescue attempts are also seen as a threat, since it’s likely the captive would be injured during such attempts.”
March 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pmI think you owe John Podhoretz (whom I pretty much despise) an apology.
Comment by LeisureGuy
She was there John wasnt. SHE says she was not harmed. SHE is not missing any limbs or anything else was harmed as far as we know. Sounds like John owes Jill an apology.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:04 pmJohn Putzhoritz deserves the back of someone’s hand or maybe three months worth of captivity somewhere. What a shmuck!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:05 pmJohn Putzhoretz deserves the back of someone’s hand or maybe three months worth of captivity somewhere. What a complete and total shmuck!
Jill Carroll god bless you. . .
March 30th, 2006 at 12:06 pmI honestly think some of these people would have been happier if Jill Carroll had been murdered.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pm“If a court refuses a FISA application and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review, the president can under executive order act unilaterally, which he is doing now,†said Kornblum
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #76
I’nfectious-R’ectal-I’nvader,
NOTE the words: “If a court refuses a FISA application…”
…by ALL accounts (including the criminal Bushiva’s)…
…NO such application was applied for …
…extrapolate from that the other half of the equation…
…you moronic mofo…
March 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pmI have to disagree LeisureGuy,
Podhoretz is clearly trying to play down Carroll’s statements. She says she was well treated, meaning what exactly? The didn’t beat, rape or behead her, and mostl likely fed her. My thoughts are that the right wing is upset, that she does not have any stories to tell of her captivation, that don’t include savage torture and beatings. He is saying she has Stockholm syndrome; the subtext reading that she was terribly mistreated, but because of her captivity she won’t tell the truth. The idea that captors are not brutal savages does not fit in with the right wing point of view, thus by their logic, she is a terrorist sympathiser covering up for the captors misdeeds.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:09 pmIt was just so painful to see a frightened young women in just a terrible situation…we should all be relieved that she’s safe!
Comment by Publicus —
It could have been an act.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:13 pmKrazny, your analysis is dead-on.
And Podhoretz was pulling the classic “Brutus is an honorable man” rhetorical trick, saying what he wanted to say by predicting that others would say it first while keeping himself above the fray he hopes to start.
Carroll was over there doing her job and by all accounts doing it well, at great personal risk, unlike folks like I-ASSHAT-I (for whom the term “job” is an alien concept). She will no doubt handle the attention this whole nightmare focusses upon her with grace and poise, while the wingnuts foam and spin because their lies are becoming more transparent and flimsy by the hour.
Fly, little wingnuts, fly!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pmformer FISA Court Judge Allan Kornblum said that president’s Constitutional powers supersede the FISA law,
Therefore it is unconstitutional. Liberals have enacted several unconstitutional laws, this was just one of them. As a homosexual black guy you might know a few more.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pmSeixon is full of hooey. He knows perfectly well that when a wingnut like Podoretz says “someone is going to start talking about Stockholm Syndrom,” he is trying to get the buzz going while hoping there will be enough suckers like Seixon to buy the line that he is just an innocent observor. Sort of like an old Southern colonel sighing about a black rape suspect, “I sho’ hope they don’t lynch that boy. Be a damn shame … but ya nevah can tell what some people might do … ”
Anyhow the Pod doesn’t know what he’s talking about anyway on a lot of scores. Jill consistently dressed in conservative Muslim attire before her kidnapping, to fit in with the locals and to be able to interact with people more naturally.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmThe supposed “Terrorists” treated her well and released her unharmed….Unlike our military who torture those who are “Suspected” of anything. We have become the terrorists!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pmCheerleading Bush to war, and then criticizing someone captured in a war he helped start, pretty much de-legitimizes any opinions he might hold.
He said “I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.”
Guess what there is (Judging frlom the board I am reading right now)
His “unpopular truths†got her in this fix in the first place
So she has no free will, she was forced into Iraq? Now I am not blaming her for this problem, but I damn sure am not accusing something John Pohoretz said of causing the Iraq war, Jill Carrol to go over there and get captured.
With that kind of logic one could pretty much blame anything on Bush (Oh NM, already done)
March 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pmSo naked prisoner pyramid, smearing with fake mentrual blood, attacking people with dogs, those are all just fraternity pranks, but “OH MY GOD!! THEY MADE HER WEAR WHAT THEY MAKE OTHER ARAB WOMEN WEAR!!”
March 30th, 2006 at 12:20 pmJohn has Stockhlom Syndrom from all the years of being held captive by an ammoral idealogy.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:23 pmJill consistently dressed in conservative Muslim attire before her kidnapping, to fit in with the locals and to be able to interact with people more naturally.
Comment by Egypt Steve — March 30, 2006 @ 12:19 pm
The neocons won’t buy that because whenthey travel it is in large air-conditioned coaches in which the only interaction they have is with other rich Americans. They don’t and won’t get that when other people, with open-minds, travel they actually want to interact with the locals in respect of their cultures.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:24 pmJohn has Stockhlom Syndrom from all the years of being held captive by an ammoral idealogy.
Comment by Eugene Grossmann — March 30, 2006 @ 12:23 pm
That’s more like it…
March 30th, 2006 at 12:26 pmYou can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:32 pmYou can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
Comment by Vance — March 30, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
I think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:36 pmFruitcake
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 11:41 am
I-RIGHT-I, get on the next plane to Baghdad, they need you for some PR work on the banks of the Tigris. I’ll pay for the plane ticket.
Beefcake!!!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:41 pmHe made himself very clear with the first part of that
It’s wonderful that she’s free, but after watching someone who was a hostage for three months say on television she was well-treated because she wasn’t beaten or killed — while being dressed in the garb of a modest Muslim woman rather than the non-Muslim woman she actually is — I expect there will be some Stockholm Syndrome talk in the coming days.
Beside the fact that saying you weren’t killed would be pretty silly, the asshat is just pissed that she said she wasn’t mistreated—period. If she were dressed in jeans and a tube top and said she wasn’t mistreated he would have said the same thing. She helping the terrists by not lying and saying she got killed. And raped. And then killed some more.
What a dumb dickhead.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWhat the FISA law has to do with Jill Caroll is beyond me, other than being a convienient way to change the discussion.
“If a court refuses a FISA application and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review, the president can under executive order act unilaterally, which he is doing now,” said Kornblum, in quotes picked up by the Washington Times.
Key phrase “If a court refuses…” Thus far none have been refused as no applications have been made. Therefore the rest of the statement is nto needed. However… the next keyphrase “…and there is not sufficient time for the president to go to the court of review…” Umm, he has to get rejected in order for this particular time crunch issue to come into play. But lets play and say that he was rejected even though he was not, every single one of these unknown number of taps were so timely as to avoid the appeal process?
Then Kornblum jumps tha shark, as IRI has and suffers from cognative dissonance and is unable to reconcile what he just said not three seconds earlier with the reaility of the situation. So he says that the president can do what he wants. Umm according to what he says the president has to at least try to do what the courts say first, and we know he has not done that because he feels that he is above the law.
And IRI the FISA laws are unconstitutional in your mind? Interesting as they seem to have ahd no trouble with the supreme court yet. 20,000 Warrents issued and none overturned as far as I know. Seems pretty solid to me. However the constituion and case law is pretty clear on not having a warrant.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:43 pm#99 Thats a scary truth!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:45 pmThis is a premptive attack on anyone who points to Jill Carrolls treatment by her captives as proof that not all insurgents are savage, and brutal. One of the primary justifications for the harsh treatment of muslim captives in US custody has been the often brutal treatment western captives have recieved.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:46 pmI’m so sorry that Jill Carroll’s release didn’t live up to conservative expectations, and that she failed to provide them with a convenient soundbite. It must be tough realizing that this is just one more missed PR opportunity for supporters of this war.
But, as the right is so quick to remind us, life doesn’t always turn out the way you’d like it to.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#104,
Yeah, and as we can see, that ploy’s worked really well for them.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:51 pmThe truth is something conservatives avoid these days. Much to their own impending doom (come the next election cycle).
From the National Priorities Project, we learn a few interesting facts about the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq.
Occupying Iraq has cost this nation’s taxpayers $250,000,000,000 thus far. Think about it. That’s HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars.
Occupying Iraq is costing the US $5,900,000,000 per month. Again, B as in Billion.
Occupying Iraq is costing us as individuals (each and every one of us in the US) $989 per month.
I would like to see a conservative is willing to stand up and say that they personally are getting their monies worth?
Who is going to support this occupation by saying they feel safer and that this $1000 a month is worth it?
Who is willing to pay $1000 a month and still have the madman who attacked us on 9/11 wandering freely through South Asia?
Who is going to claim that the Iraq occupation is worth $1000 a month straight out of their wallet (and out of the wallets of their own grandchildren)?
I’m happy that Jill got out alive. I just hope she tells the truth and is offered the airtime to get her story out.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:06 pmWelcome home Jill Carrol
( although your president wanted you beheaded to justify his war on terror and gain more support)
you will be a great embarrasment to bush now and he will try to discredit everything you say
March 30th, 2006 at 1:08 pm#108,
And they gripe about the meager federal funding of Public Broadcasting!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#108,
And they gripe about the meager federal funding that goes to Public Broadcasting!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:10 pmI think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
Comment by unbelievable
Do you feel it is better to release prisoners into society than incarcerate them?
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
March 30th, 2006 at 1:10 pmOoops, sorry for the double post!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:11 pmin re “former FRISA judge”…..all one really needs is to see the NEWSMAX brand on this story to know why the MSM is not carrying it (although one might expect FOX to pick it up) - its more made up crap from the same folks who gave us CLinton Fathering a Black Baby.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:11 pmI think they are just pissed off. Plain and simple. P.O.’d, Having a hissy. A strange reaction for those who only yesterday were WAILING about the lack of stories filled with sunshine, out of Iraq. And today, a GREAT story comes out, yet they are displeased still. But why? She emerged unscathed (physically), amazingly. and said she had not been mistreated. And THAT is their issue about her.The Iraqi’s treated her in a humane manner, and they KNOW the same cannot be said of us. And like every truth they cannot hide from, their only option is to destroy the “messenger”. That is so pathetic, and so Republican. It must be so freeing, to never be burdened by any feelings of shame. Must be …umm nice?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:12 pmTypical responses by trolls and RepubliKKKans. Those who never risked their lives not even a single peice of hair to go into dangerous territory are pissed that those who do get respect from us.
IRIGHTI is an idiot for calling her a terrorist. She could have been executed and yet
he and those oil loving facists show no love or no effort to help her or support
any effort to rescue her. That proves, among a long list of dubious acts, that the
BubbleBoy Administration is declaring war on free thinking Americans.
Jill Carroll risked her life to tell the truth and lived to tell it. Had she been killed, BubbleBoy would have one of those photo-ops to try to provide empty comfort to her family and friends. IRI and those facists, had they had any balls would have went to Iraq and seen firsthand what being kidnapped and nearly killed was like. I’m sure
they would have lived in fear day by day rather than worry if their oil stocks fell down by a half of a percent. This is what the war is about. It’s about goddamn fucking OIL!
And these Iraqi leaders who were put into power had better get their shit together or else, we’re going to leave anyway. That way, no other soldier or jounalist will ever have to suffer or worse.
God Bless Jill Carroll
March 30th, 2006 at 1:16 pmGod Save IRI and the facists
Oh, and IRI, Podheretz and the RepubliKKKans should remember, at least the captors treated Jill better than what the Iraqi prisoners got at that one prison where Lynndie England worked.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:19 pmBushbots are sociopathic cultists
March 30th, 2006 at 1:21 pm#115,
As I’ve said before, I think that there are lots of conservatives who publicly decry the violence in Iraq, and who feign righteous indignation any time a hostage is murdered, but who privately are glad for it to happen, as it serves to justify their attitudes towards Muslims and towards Islam.
I recall the right-wing vitriol being directed against Rachel Corrie a few years back. Many conservatives who disagreed with her being in Gaza in the first place rejoiced at her death. Several even went so far as to say she got what she deserved, and that she’ll rot in hell for giving “aid and comfort” to the Palestinians. No doubt there are some who post here who share these sentiments.
I’m sorry, but these people aren’t entirely connected to the real world.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:22 pm#115 - …today, a GREAT story comes out, yet they are displeased still. But why? She emerged unscathed (physically), amazingly. and said she had not been mistreated. And THAT is their issue about her.The Iraqi’s treated her in a humane manner, and they KNOW the same cannot be said of us.
Gosh, do you think the ReichWingNuts can even fathom that they are dealing with humans? Iraqi’s have been demonized to prop GOP platforms and spin cycles. Yet, under all this, there are humans. Good, decent, country protecting, God fearing humans.
My heart lept when I saw that Jill got out safe.
Fundimentalism of any kind can go very very wrong. The GOP has descended to the level of fundimentalism. They must go.
ITMFA!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:26 pmIn my world, being held prisoner for 3 months, threatened (on video) with being killed, not knowing what is going to happen to you–that, for me, counts as mistreatment. YMMV, of course, but I think if it happened to you, you would also consider it mistreatment. And the Stockholm syndrome is well established as a pyschological mechanism.
I hold no brief for John Podhoretz, but I’m saying that thinking that Jill Carroll may be experiencing Stockholm syndrome is not to condemn her. She’s human–why would it not happen to her?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:29 pmIt amazes me some of the filthy things the neocons are saying about Ms. Carroll.
I guess it would be better for them if she said she was raped ‘x’ amount of times, beaten, converted to Islam and so on…..so they may keep their hated of Iraqis and Muslims alive and beat their war drums.
Frankly, one wonders with the families being slaughtered in Iraq recently, doctors, teachers, and students suddenly being killed more….the death squads starting up not long after Negroponte’s arrival….what is going in Iraq? Who does it benefit? Does it make a case to keep U.S. troops longer in Iraq and build those bases that makes the U.S. public and the world question BushCo.’s motives? Again, who benefits?
Remember, it was said Jill Carroll was getting too close to the truth when she was kidnapped, which truth?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:29 pmDo you feel it is better to release prisoners into society than incarcerate them?
http://www.familywatchdog.us/
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 1:10 pm
To add to Ryan’s comments, I’d say that it’s also worth understanding how we judge people. Are we more criminal as a society that needs to be locked up - or are we more intolerant and are quicker to lock people up?
One thing I learned working on a prison project when I was an architect is that the jail population skyrocketted with the introduction of crack cocaine. So, the next question would be - why do we have such a terrible drug problem?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:31 pmI found the pictures of Jill Carroll swathed in a headscarf during her interview fairly disturbing.
Stockholm Syndrome popped into my mind when I first saw them as well. She was at the Islamic Party headquarters, however, so it may have been required.
What are we to make, then, of previous videos of her weeping and obviously frightened or disturbed along with a voice-over of demands for release of Iraqi prisoners.
The whole situation is very strange.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:32 pmYou can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
Comment by Vance — March 30, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
I think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
Comment by unbelievable #99
#99 Thats a scary truth!
Comment by Vance #103
Vance and unbelievable,
No wonder inbred TRAITORS in the Bushite controlled MSM…
…are harping about “Please, No more comparisons of Bush as Hitler”…
…can you say “concentration camp America?”
March 30th, 2006 at 1:40 pmBob, you’re right, it looks like the people who are attacking Jill are doing exactly what rightwingers accuse liberals of: righties say that liberals hate to hear “good news” out of Iraq, because it hurts the liberal agenda. Having Jill Carroll safely released hurts the right-wing ideology. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Is it me, or is IRI being especially obnoxious today?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:41 pmAs a homosexual black guy you might know a few more.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #89
…having “man” troubles IRI?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:41 pm#119
(I’m taking your percentages as they are because overall the exact breakup is irrelevant to our discussion).
the social/educational/opportunity issues that often lead people into crime. (Here is going to be a fundamental difference between our ways of thinking) If I get hit by a drunk driver, lose my legs and am forced to move my daughter to a neighborhood that has worse schools and higher drug rates, I don’t give a rats behind what social/educational/opportunity issues the driver had. It does not change the fact that because they choose to break the law, they have effected MY life and the life of MY children.
I was born and raised in Detroit Michigan. I took the time to learn in school, join the military so that I could get my education paid for and busted my butt to get a good job. In my opinion noone has the right to take any of that from me or my family. If someone cannot use the social programs that are available to get a hand up, don’t expect me to be sympathetic when they break a law that effects my life.
21% of the people who are in prison are there on drug related issues
That covers a wide range. While sure you could say it is a non violent crime, is selling drugs in a middle school a non-violent crime?
20% are there on property related issues
Again a wide range. Property related could be aquiring my property. Stealing my identity and forcing me out of my home. Enron is full of non violent offenders that ruined a whole lot of lives, that were not theirs to ruin.
Both of these are strongly related to economic, social and educational opportunities that need to be addressed.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:46 pmSee my point above. I am all for helping give a hand up to people in areas with poor economic, social and educational opportunities. But I do not feel it can be used as an excuse any more than White Collar crime can use an entitlement excuse.
[…] Judd at Think Progress is absolutely right. John Podhoretz owes Jill Carroll an apology. […]
March 30th, 2006 at 1:47 pmDon’t the diehard neocon Republicans continue to support Dubya and the posse because of Stockhold Syndrome? It’s all he’s got left. Once they learn they have to help pay for his war, he’ll be hstory.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:49 pmThe reason she was dressed in Islamic dress was because the interview was conducted at the office of the Sunni political party where her captors dropped her off. Had the interview waited until she was settled in the Green Zone one would assume that she would have changed back into her Western clothes.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:50 pmP.S. Manshake!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:51 pm#119
“20% are there on property related issues
21% of the people who are in prison are there on drug related issues”
100% are there for being found guilty of a crime, thats my take on it. While I feel the drug laws should be relaxed, until they are, if your caught with weed for example, you just commited a crime.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:56 pm…can you say “concentration camp America?â€
Comment by big papa — March 30, 2006 @ 1:40 pm
Exactly!
March 30th, 2006 at 1:57 pmThe Republicans are trying to “tag” Ms. Carroll with “Stockholm Syndrome, because THEY need her too have it. Because the TRUTH totally f*cks with their “landscape”, and it is driving them CRAZY!!! So, now they need to make her look crazy, because all the details make them look SOOOOOO bad, in comparison. and they are WELL AWARE OF IT! Let the slander commence! Losers.
March 30th, 2006 at 1:58 pmJane,
Conservatives hate it when the left criticizes but offers no viable alternatives to a situation, so I’d like those people who are bothered by Jill Carroll’s statements to tell us what you wished she had said instead.
And when you’re done with that, please tell us why that would be preferable.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:00 pm100% are there for being found guilty of a crime, thats my take on it. While I feel the drug laws should be relaxed, until they are, if your caught with weed for example, you just commited a crime.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
100%? Another absolutist…
You have heard about the folks who were released for being innocent of their convictions because DNA testing changed the ability for a strong defense,right?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#139, thats why I said found guilty of a crime, as opposed to committed a crime
March 30th, 2006 at 2:05 pmfor my 100% part, not the part where i actually said commited a crime.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:07 pmfor my 100% part, not the part where i actually said commited a crime.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
I read what you wrote, but that in itself is pointless. Of course they were convicted. It’s simply the equals sign between 1 + 2 = 3… it has no bearing on the equation.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:11 pm#142 “You have heard about the folks who were released for being innocent of their convictions because DNA testing changed the ability for a strong defense,right?”
So then they had been found guilty and sent to prison, and then, when found innocent they were released? So you agree with me then, the prison population is 100% people found guilty of a crime?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pmHow did we get off on this topic?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:27 pm124,
So, the next question would be - why do we have such a terrible drug problem?
I don’t know why we have such a terrible drug problem (Besides it’s addicitve nature), but my feelings on bringing it down involve stricter border controls and more people in prison not less.
I suppose my next question to Unbelieveable is what do we do to lower the amount of people in prisons?
Do we make a quota of people that can be found guilty?
Get rid of some of the laws that don’t directly effect others (Poaching, owning an unregistered firearm, drug use)?
lessen sentences for all crimes?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:28 pmHey #99 get your facts straight before you hyperbolize.
The US does not have more prisoners incarcerated than the rest of the world combined, we are up there but there no need for dramatics. A quick search of Google will result in finding that we have around 2 million, China is estimated to have the same, though I bet it’s a bit higher.
“What are we to make, then, of previous videos of her weeping and obviously frightened or disturbed along with a voice-over of demands for release of Iraqi prisoners.
The whole situation is very strange.
Comment by Cass”
I agree completely, sorry but being kidnapped, your translator executed, and to be threatened with death at any moment doesn’t exactly define being treated well to me.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:28 pm“So you agree with me then, the prison population is 100% people found guilty of a crime? Comment by squishypoop”
No, some are there because they refused to ‘cooperate’ (lie) - remember Susan McDougall?
It’s called ‘being held in contempt’, and many would argue that it isn’t a crime, although I’m sure you’d disagree.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm#144
You can judge a society by the way they treat thier prisoners…I think Lady Liberty is sobbing.
Comment by Vance — March 30, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
I think you can also judge them by their quantity of prisoners. We have more people incarcerated than the rest of the world combined.
Comment by unbelievable #99
Once that came up we decided to discuss fixing the issue
March 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pm“I don’t know why we have such a terrible drug problem (Besides it’s addicitve nature), but my feelings on bringing it down involve stricter border controls and more people in prison not less. squishypoop”
The fastest growing drug problems stem from home grown meth. The borders won’t help you, so once again that’s what you get for trying to ‘think’. Leave it up to those more literate and intelligent - like humor, it’s not your gift.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pmSo then they had been found guilty and sent to prison, and then, when found innocent they were released? So you agree with me then, the prison population is 100% people found guilty of a crime?
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Nope. If you admit to being guilty, you go. No actual ‘finding of guilt’, but rather an admission.
I mean we are arguing semantics now, and not the point that there are innocent people in prison, right?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:32 pmA solid wall of silence should respond to provocations by such as JPod. This is merely his stock-in-trade: a smush-up of hate, entertainment, and PolitPorn. [Julius Streicher’s DER STURMER pioneered this genre, since “refined” (like a fine Texas crude) by Slush Limbog, etc.] And how lame to dredge up Stalk Syndrome; next he’ll dish up bargain-basement Freud or Jung, or maybe Rev. Moon or Dr. Fill-Up. As the quintessential USA cliche says: “JPod, put your $$$ where yer mouth is, and ENLIST!”
March 30th, 2006 at 2:34 pm#150 ” I mean we are arguing semantics now, and not the point that there are innocent people in prison, right?”
That is correct.
You could also go with the argument that people who are awaiting trial, but did not post bail are in prison, so they have not been found guilty either.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pmI don’t know why we have such a terrible drug problem (Besides it’s addicitve nature), but my feelings on bringing it down involve stricter border controls and more people in prison not less.
Well, clearly, that’s not working.
There are serious drug use problems in high school. I maintain that it’s a result of the undue pressures put upon these kids to be ‘perfect’ that cause some of them to escape. I think it probably applies to adults as well.
So, perhaps we should look in the mirror first. As the first step in solving a problem is admitting it.
I suppose my next question to Unbelieveable is what do we do to lower the amount of people in prisons? Do we make a quota of people that can be found guilty? Get rid of some of the laws that don’t directly effect others (Poaching, owning an unregistered firearm, drug use)? lessen sentences for all crimes?
Comment by Tundra — March 30, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
Until we identify he problem, we can’t speculate as to the treatment. Would be like your doctor giving you antibiotics for a cough before he ever diagnosed your condition.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:38 pmHey #99 get your facts straight before you hyperbolize.
The US does not have more prisoners incarcerated than the rest of the world combined, we are up there but there no need for dramatics. A quick search of Google will result in finding that we have around 2 million, China is estimated to have the same, though I bet it’s a bit higher.
Comment by Onthefence — March 30, 2006 @ 2:28 pm
I did. Don’t know what you Googled, but China does not have more people in prison. I have been there. They don’t have the problems we do here. Their culture is very different, and their treatment of criminals is also different.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:41 pmRyan
One thing I learned working on a prison project when I was an architect is that the jail population skyrocketted with the introduction of crack cocaine. So, the next question would be - why do we have such a terrible drug problem?
The drug problem reference was pulled from post 124, where Crack Cocaine was referenced. Sorry if I didn’t reiterate it. I did reference the number for you though.
149
The fastest growing drug problems stem from home grown meth.
Does the fastest growing equal the largest source of in your argument? Because I wouldn’t want to think without a license here.
I would agree that the fastest growing source of drugs (Provided your info is correct) would not be stopped at the border, but what is the largest source of drugs in the country. (I’ll go ahead and look that one up for you)
March 30th, 2006 at 2:41 pm#149 Ryan two things,
For some one who regularly insults intelligance, the stuff you quoted is from Tundra not me, so fine work there.
Second off:The fastest growing drug problems stem from home grown meth. The borders won’t help you, so once again that’s what you get for trying to ‘think’
Perhaps, perhaps not, but just because its the fastest growing dosnt make it the biggest
Meth:http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/methamph/index.html
Cocaine:http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/cocaine/index.html
Cocaine has a much higher use rate, roughly 300%, so shutting down the borders would actually help more than dealing with meth, and thats total meth, not just homegrown. But I guess thats what we get from you trying to think, flawed analysis again.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:43 pmYou could also go with the argument that people who are awaiting trial, but did not post bail are in prison, so they have not been found guilty either.
Comment by squegeeboo — March 30, 2006 @ 2:35 pm
Sure… :)
March 30th, 2006 at 2:44 pmDoes anyone know if the demands of the kidnappers had been met involving other female prisoners?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:53 pm5 women prisoners were freed shortly after she was kidnapped. The claim was that they were already scheduled to be released and were not following the kidnappers’ demands. There are still women being held in prisons in Iraq.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:58 pmI did. Don’t know what you Googled, but China does not have more people in prison. I have been there. They don’t have the problems we do here. Their culture is very different, and their treatment of criminals is also different.
Comment by unbelievable — March 30, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
Here you go man: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4491026.stm
And you’re right they do treat their prisoners differently, they torture their citizens and some just disappear. We only torture Arabs.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:00 pm