Jonah Goldberg Responds: I’m “Thinking More Clearly” Than Jill Carroll
Jonah Goldberg Responds: I’m “Thinking More Clearly” Than Jill Carroll
Jonah Goldberg has responded to my earlier post criticizing his attack on Jill Carroll:
UNTHINK PROGRESS [Jonah Goldberg]
…Is it really so crazy to think that someone who hasn’t spent the last 82 days in captivity by Islamic kidnappers might be thinking more clearly than someone who has? Is it so absurd to think that maybe someone who had their senses about them and their moral center in good order, would be less thankful about her treatment and more upset that the translator she asked to come with her was murdered while working for her? I understand that the logic of the left cannot escape the orbit of “you wouldn’t understand” identity politics. But come on. Does anyone in their right mind think that Think Progress would be rallying to this woman’s side if she emerged from her captivity saying George W. Bush was right and the people who kidnapped her were terrorist animals? Please. They’d be prattling on about how she lost her mind.
A couple of thoughts:
1. The issue of how Carroll was treated is not something you can “understand” or “not understand.” It’s a factual issue and Jill Carroll is the only one who know the facts. Jonah Goldberg does not know the facts and even his razor sharp mind (absent mental telepathy) isn’t going to figure them out.
2. Goldberg has ratcheted up his attacks on Carroll. This morning he was “starting to bug her.” Now she isn’t thinking clearly and has lost her “moral center.”
3. No matter what Jill Carroll or anyone else says we would not make a medical diagnoses without any expertise or facts. That seems to be a specialty of the right.
Mr. Goldberg could put this whole episode behind him with a simple apology to Jill Carroll and her family.
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the most valid bit of course is that only Jill Carol and here captors know. I think all of us right and left, should back off and not even worry until we get the complete facts. there is a lot of hypothsising, and conjecture. If the right wants to work up a lather over Jill Carol and Carol McKinney let them. It only makes them look foolish and idiotic.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:31 pmMr. Goldberg has some issues to work out.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:33 pmHe might want to consider them before making “medical” diagnosis.
It might also be instructive for Mr Goldberg to visit and report
from Iraq without military or mercenary escort to learn the
real truth over there.
Maybe them he can relate to someone as brave as Jill.
Until then, he is another keyboard blowhard.
it’s plain as day. these anti-jill carroll people are against her because she is anti-war./
if she had been a pat robertson chrsitian missionary over there, they wouldn’t be saying any of this nonsense. they would be calling it a “miracle” and how “blessed” she was, etc.
and that’s all there is to it.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:33 pmWhen it comes to influences on thinking, one of these people spent their time surrounded by fanatics pushing a strict ideology and an open willingness to use violence to push their global faith-based agenda in support of their elite cabal of religious billionares…
…and the other was a kidnapping victim.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:34 pmIs it so absurd to think that maybe someone who had their senses about them and their moral center in good order, would be less thankful about her treatment and more upset that the translator she asked to come with her was murdered while working for her?
Remember this?
ATTN: SUPERDOME RESIDENTS – I think it’s time to face facts. That place is going to be a Mad Max/thunderdome Waterworld/Lord of the Flies horror show within the next few hours. My advice is to prepare yourself now. Hoard weapons, grow gills and learn to communicate with serpents. While you’re working on that, find the biggest guy you can and when he’s not expecting it beat him senseless. Gather young fighters around you and tell the womenfolk you will feed and protect any female who agrees to participate without question in your plans to repopulate the earth with a race of gilled-supermen. It’s never too soon to be prepared.” (1)
His “moral center” is a squishy as a rotten melon.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:36 pmI wondered who was giving Senator Medical advice. I guess I know have my answer. I think Goldberg makes himself very clear. If you don’t like the message or the messenger, attack. They do it to everyone who threatens their way of thinking. It has been made clear by Jill she, at the time was in her own mind under threat. Jonah give it up dood! Your a real douche bag.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:41 pmI meant to Senatoe Frist.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:43 pmsorry for the omission
Is it so absurd to think that maybe someone who had their senses about them and their moral center in good order – - Ah, if you can’t sell the Titanic, sell the iceberg.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:44 pmI’ve a suggeston for how to resolve this… let’s have Laura Ingraham go spend 8 days in captivity and come back to tell us how she was treated. Then we’ll find out if Jill Carroll’s telling the truth.
This is the wingnut mindset for you:
Last week: complain the media doesn’t report good news from Iraq.
This week: complain about the good news from Iraq.
Prediction for next week: the wingnuts will be complaining.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:45 pmPrediction for next week: the wingnuts will be complaining.
Comment by Dumb Fox — March 31, 2006 @ 2:45 pm
I think it’s becoming the American way to whine. It’s pretty much a fact that if you whine loud enough and long enough, people will either give you what you want or leave you alone to do whatever you want.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:49 pmGoldberg wouldn’t be where he is today but for nepotism.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:51 pmHaven’t we seen this movie often enough?
After the escape, the doughy oleaginous gguy says to the heroine, “You’re obvioususly distraught…”
Shorter Jonah:
March 31st, 2006 at 2:56 pmShut up.
Does Goldberg have his senses about him?
March 31st, 2006 at 2:58 pmCompare Jonah’s responses to Scalia and Carroll:
Jonah 1:01AM – starting to bug me . . . would be nice to say something remotely critical of her captors . . . getting a very bad vibe.
Jonah 9:28AM – “controversy” over Scalia is idiotic. I don’t care what the gesture means. The venue of the question was inappropriate . . and at its core was the assumption that Scalia is a biased judge. And, while not techinically inappropriate, the question was cliched, tired and without any news value . . . Scalia’s response may not have been ideal, but it was perfectly human and understandable
So we have two incidents where a newsworthy figure makes an unexpected statement (or gesture). Scalia’s is ‘perfectly human and understandable’, but Carroll’s gives Jonah ‘a bad vibe’.
Jonah’s last comment about Scalia – “may not have been ideal, but it was perfectly human and understandable” would have been a reasonable response to Carroll’s comments – instead of speculative musings about something more sinister being afoot. It goes without saying that this was the point of the original TP post – not about Jonah’s right to free speech (his latest defense), but the right of TP to highlight his pointless and careless commentary.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:58 pm#3 they are aginst her because she lived. If she dies they could tout her as one more example of the animals inhabiting Iraq. SInce she lived it kind of rebutts some of their logic and heads are near the exploding point over it.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:01 pmMaybe Jonah should punch her and you would all side with him, then…
“I wouldn’t make a big deal of this…”
March 31st, 2006 at 3:01 pmWhy can’t he just put it under the “good news out of Iraq” category? Can’t have it both ways, buddy! Oh wait, it’s the right talking, what was I thinking?
March 31st, 2006 at 3:02 pm#18 – you were the person my mom was talking about when she said some people should remain silent and be thought a fool because when they speak it removes all doubt!!
March 31st, 2006 at 3:04 pm#18 – Would that mean all the “cons” would be on Jill’s side if Jonah punched her?
March 31st, 2006 at 3:08 pmThis is a simple exercises for TP…
The last time a hostage was released was what last year…some Oil worker right…
Well if Jonah thinks Think Progress operates on some double standard lets see what the reaction was to his release
I guarantee you it is the same as the reaction of TP to Ms. Carroll’s release…
measured and happy that the person was safe…..
I really cant understand how CONS are getting upset that ……oh my gosh her captors werent the BLOOD THIRSTY Islamofascists that they said commit hostage taking….
My god the woman is safe and going home….does everything have to be turned into political opportunity…….
Also the media “finally” reports good news from Iraq and Repub’s are angry with Ms Carrolls release….????
I dont get it
March 31st, 2006 at 3:15 pmI dont get it
Comment by lib4 — March 31, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
Well, let’s see. It’s been a few years since I’ve been to church, but I think it goes something like this: Bad People always do bad things and Good People always do good things. So, if someone is to suggest a Bad Person did a good thing, then that person much be traumatized, or nuts. Always, Forver. Absolutlely. Or something like that.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:21 pmJonah is a closet Gay queen like Ken Mehlman > they hate themselves so badly that it warps their petty minds into madness! This is an affliction that effects a lot of male Republicans!
March 31st, 2006 at 3:22 pmDon’t judge him too harshly. His head has been taken hostage by his ass.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:23 pm“their moral center in good order”???
He’s claiming he’s more moral than she is??
March 31st, 2006 at 3:24 pm#24 – If Jonah really was a closeted gay “queen”, then he’d dress a heck of a lot better than he does! ;-)
March 31st, 2006 at 3:26 pmHe is saying what I was saying in an earlier post. That we can not know. And granted… Jill may be the only one who TRULEY knows… but given her circumstances, perhaps what she is saying ISN’T totally correct. Perhaps in time, after she’s been able to settle back to a normal life, she will rethink things. She will be able to think back with a more clear head about what happened and assess her feelings.
So yes, none of us know the FACTS. But being her situation, perhaps we shouldn’t take her words for face value just YET.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:28 pmDear Judd – I don’t have to be beaten, raped or beheaded by radical Islamofascists to consider how excrutiatingly awful that would be. I do know “for a fact” she described her treatment by her captors as benign and humane. I did not hear her address the treatment that killed her driver (did she even mention that poor guy?) or “persuaded” her to cry and plead on the televised video. No medical or psych diagnosis here: I think she was saying what she needed to convey to her family – in the presence of a Sunni official.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:29 pmThe problem for them is that she is a peacenik. The CONS would have preferred her to be beheaded. She’s not dead yet, so they will attack her. What are they going to use now that there is actually a picture of her hair on CNN? She’s still a Christian, she’s still a peacenik. Horrors! Maybe they can milk the pregnant thing for 9 months,… until she doesn’t have a baby.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:30 pmUh, well, Jonah, I suspect that anyone who disagrees with you has probably lost their moral center and isn’t thinking clearly.
I will take Jill’s clouded perception over yours any day.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:32 pmIT WAS A SLAP!
March 31st, 2006 at 3:32 pmDear lib4 – Please give an example of “…media “finally†reports good news from Iraq and Repub’s are angry with Ms Carrolls release….????” Name ONE Republican, JUST ONE, who is angry that Jill Carroll was released – - YOU can’t. And then you have the brilliant atheist propping up your stupidity. Figures…
March 31st, 2006 at 3:33 pmHostage…
I think right wing bloggers who were so flippant with their “churlish,” snide remarks about Jill Carroll owe her more than an apology….
March 31st, 2006 at 3:34 pmBefore we get to warm and fuzzy over her captors, please keep in mind they did kidnap her in the first place, and killed the translator working for her. For once I agree with MA, that the comments she made were most likely directed to her family letting them know she was alive and safe.
I think it is reprehensible the level of attacks that men like Podhurtz and others have leveled towards Jill Carol. There is simply not enough information to go on at this time.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:35 pm#28 – I think I can understand your point of view.
That said, can Jonah know ANYTHING about her perspectives unless he’s “been there, done that”???
That would be like me saying: “Hey! you stupid woman who had an abortion! Just because I don’t have a uterus doesn’t mean I DON’T know the REAL mental pain you’ve been through having an abortion! You’re too close to the incident, so you MUST take MY opinion over yours!â€
Not an exact comparison, (Jonah COULD be kidnapped if he ever stepped outside of his pampered office) but close enough in this case.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:36 pm#33, that’s easy IRI seems very angry that she was not beheaded. He’s one of you.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:37 pm“Maybe they can milk the pregnant thing for 9 months,… until she doesn’t have a baby.”
Solitaire, as the time gets to 7 months thier stance will be “well, the sinner had an abortion. Damn her to hell again.” Then again, 7 months from now, it will be Jill Who?
March 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pmPost 27 > Repub closet queens do not seem to have any fashion sense, but maybe they dress drab in public as a cover to deflect noticing they are fem?! Also, a closet queen likes to dress in female clothes in private > they tend to like bras and panties > lol.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pmDear solitaire – shame on you for thinking CONs would have liked to see her beheaded – I can’t imagine ANYONE ralishing such a thought. That would be as IGNORANT as if conservatives said, “Progs would like her to be beheaded to demonstrate we don’t belong there.” Some of you people are a twisted bunch….
March 31st, 2006 at 3:40 pmJust think, Jonah Goldberg would be a nobody
March 31st, 2006 at 3:40 pmif his mother hadn’t been such an evil bitch.
#33 – Name one Democrat, JUST ONE, that’s happy that our soldiers are dying in Iraq & Afghanistan? — You can’t!
Figures…
March 31st, 2006 at 3:41 pmThere is simply not enough information to go on at this time.
Comment by Krazny — March 31, 2006 @ 3:35 pm
That’s exactly right and I think JG is really digging himself into a hole here, I didn’t think what he originally said was offensive or slanderous but his followup certainly is. We don’t know what did or did not occur while she was in captivity we only know the circumstances under which she was abducted and what aired in the few videotapes that have been released. Frankl;y at this point now that she has been released and is safe, I could care less about the rest of the story, I’m sure there will be a book deal and a Lifetime movie coming soon that will answer all these questions. Continuing to dwell on this is just further evidence of the media’s obsession with WWID (white woman in distress).
March 31st, 2006 at 3:44 pmWho exactly was getting “warm and fuzzy over her captors”?
March 31st, 2006 at 3:45 pmThe issue here is not that the kidnappers let her go or that they didn’t behead her. This issue is that it is not safe for anyone, including soldiers, to be outside the ‘green zone’. It is extremely dangerous for anyone outside of Iraq to go and actually help these people. Three years after winning the war and ending offensive attacks and liberating the people of Iraq it is unsafe to go and help without the US army protecting you. A very sorry indication of the job Bush has done.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:50 pmPost 27 > Repub closet queens do not seem to have any fashion sense, but maybe they dress drab in public as a cover to deflect noticing they are fem?! Also, a closet queen likes to dress in female clothes in private > they tend to like bras and panties > lol.
Comment by Jay Randal — March 31, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
To you and others, this immature crap really detracts from the message and plays into the stereotypes about liberals that O’Reilly, Hannity in the rest peddle on a daily basis. Every single story on this site is increasingly filled with this smearing slanderous garbage. Don’t you realize that the very thing that we constantly deride the right-wingers for(slander, hatespeech etc.) is exactly what people like you perpetrate on a daily basis. Thanks for giving the rest of us a bad name, comments like this are exactly the reason that much of America considers liberalism to be a bad word.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:51 pmOnthefence – I hope it’s not a picket fence!
March 31st, 2006 at 3:55 pmAccording to CNN, when she made those statements, she was still being held by Islamists, so I don’t think she would have been making derogatory statements about her captors. This was reported yesterday and this morning. So it looks like the people that are ‘bugged” about Jill Carroll’s statements need to read the paper or watch the news before they start shooting off their little pearls of wisdom.
March 31st, 2006 at 3:56 pmIt’s so nice to know that Goldberg and the arrested development piss-caca-poo-poo boys at Imus have such high capacity for EMPATHY and CONCERN for other human beings who have been through a life-altering, life-threatening experience (instead of insisting on immature, narcissistic rigid world views of the way things OUGHT to be in their boys-will-be-boys outlooks).
Yes, they’re all such outsanding examples of moralistic rectitude. You can tell they’ve all worked really hard to develop a sense of conscience, consciousness and empathy. Not.
Buzzzed
March 31st, 2006 at 3:59 pmIt’s so nice to know that Goldberg and the arrested development piss-caca-poo-poo boys at Imus have such high capacity for EMPATHY and CONCERN for other human beings who have been through a life-altering, life-threatening experience (instead of insisting on immature, narcissistic rigid world views of the way things OUGHT to be in their boys-will-be-boys outlooks).
Yes, they’re all such outsanding examples of moralistic rectitude. You can tell they’ve all worked really hard to develop a sense of conscience, consciousness and empathy. Not.
Buzzzed
March 31st, 2006 at 4:01 pmPlease read the REAL story here. http://www.csmonitor.com/earlyed/earlyWO0331a.html
March 31st, 2006 at 4:02 pmOk I’ve figured out exactly what the supporters of the war are upset about……..
“Party leader Tariq al-Hashimi presented her with an embossed Koran in a plush box. The Koran was for the true followers of Islam, Hashimi said, and he mentioned the Iraqi people. Accepting it, Carroll said her suffering was nothing compared with theirs.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/30/AR2006033001965_pf.html
To them this is borderline treasonous. Those who supported the war from the start and continue to support it, have not and will not accept the TRUTH that overall we have caused more harm than good with this war both to ourselves and the Iraqi people.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:02 pmI think Goldberg and all the Bushco apologists have reason to be afraid of Jill Carroll. These guys are terrified because as soon as she’s “recovered†she’s gonna be a well-spoken attractive Cindy Sheehan who has serious media cred because she is a journalist herself. She will have no problem whatsoever speaking in soundbites, in favor of the Iraqi people just as she did before she was kidnapped. The Monitor website has her past articles, and they are pro-Iraqi’s as human beings, thank you very much. The preemptive strikes from the bottom dwellers of the right are disgusting, but to be expected.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:04 pm#47 – I understand where you’re coming from, a sentiment that you’ll never hear the “other side” utter.
But please remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so when we speak about the Republi-tards using the same type of language and hyperbole that htey employ, they should be flattered! Right?!?
Sweety, they’re never ever, EVER, going to stop their ad hominem attacks. They’re just too good at it, and it’s become entrenched behavior for them. The left has never done all that well in the “rhetorical warâ€, so we’re adopting the tactics of the “other side†that work.
If they want it to stop, then why don’t THEY start by cutting the crap out? Once they start, trust me, we’ll be more than happy to return the favor.
Until the do, we’ll be more than happy to return the favor!
March 31st, 2006 at 4:10 pmWhat we progressives find so interesting/amusing/disgusting about this (all at the same time for some of us) is the tone of Jonah & the content of his comments.
He comes off (tone) like a hack. How he got the job at the LA Times (his mother) only speaks of how awful the editors and publisher there have sunk. How far have they sunk, you may ask? Well, they hired a 4th rate opinion writer that can’t write at High School level.
Because he can’t write above High School level, he uses Oxycotin limbaugh rants (content) to try to intrigue/attract/appeal to an audience. he’s just another shock jock and a pretty dumb bastard to boot.
I say we all blame his mother. She’s a disgusting bitch and he hasn’t even reacherd her level. How hard is it to get above the basement?
March 31st, 2006 at 4:11 pmMark – CITE an example of Repubs sorry she wasn’t killed – YOU CAN’T ….but the truth rarely gets in the way of many progs –
Krasny – I’m marking my calendar – we AGREED on something….
March 31st, 2006 at 4:17 pmDear Dem Soldier – Well if you have to experience a “person’s Perspective” I guess you’ll never be able to sit on a jury – - unless you were the victim of crime or the perpertrator. (And wouldn’t you have a bit of an objectivity problem???) For once, your “logic” shows why I’m delighted to have you use the moniker DemSoldier than RepubSoldier….
March 31st, 2006 at 4:21 pm“but the truth rarely gets in the way of many progs” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA good one mighty.
Like, there were no wmd’s.
Like Saddam had zero to do with 911.
Like Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 911.
I could go on and on but you aren’t interested in these truths.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:26 pm#57 – I would say that the truth rarely gets in the way of anyone when they have an axe to grind.
That’s true for ALL political pundits. On ALL sides of the political spectrum!
Cases in point:
Rep never gave Pres. Clinton credit for creating a surplus. (To my knowledge.)
Dem never gave Pres. Bush credit for toppling the Taliban. (To my knowledge.)
NOW you can mark your calendar! More than one prog has agreed with you! ;-)
By the way, have a great weekend all! I’m having a “Welcome to America” party for a co-workers girlfriend who moved in with him last weekend!
March 31st, 2006 at 4:27 pm#58 – I don’t think you HAVE to experience a person’s perspective to offer an opinion. Just make sure you say “This is my opinion. . . .” when you say it. Don’t try to imply that your “opinion” is any better than anyone else’s if you have no direct experience.
And, sweetie, I used to be a Republican while I was in the Army. I changed my political party because I saw first hand how much the Republicans were screwing the military. The Democrats aren’t perfect, but they’re a darned sight better because they allow people to have opinions different then their pre-conceived notions.
My opinions about capital punishment, abortion, immigration haven’t changed all that much. I’m just less likely to say “Hey! If you disagree with me, then you’re WRONG! Don’t tell me your side of the argument, I don’t care! Shut up! You’re wrong!†Now, I’m more likely to listen to the other side before I pass my judgment.
My experience is that the Republicans pass judgment without caring what the other side cares about at all. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but I haven’t heard an argument from you that has changed that perspective. Care to prove me wrong?
I’ll chat with you Monday! This weekend is mine! ;-)
March 31st, 2006 at 4:39 pmI wouldn’t be badmouthing my captors too much either – sure, they did bad things, but they also treated me reasonably for 3 months. Sure, I wasn’t free at all, but considering that others have, quite literally, lost their head over this – I would feel lucky and quite content. One translator died; that is a death to be mourned – but her survival is meant to be openly embraced.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:41 pm#43 – The Statement was made – I asked for citation – your side can’t provide it – (objection sustained…) change your name to DemocrapSoldier
March 31st, 2006 at 4:43 pm#60 – I always gave Clinton credit for the surplus – I also gave him the “credit” of raising taxes on Social Security recipients and the middle class.
Its a sad day in America when a Victim of an Ill Gotten war not only gets held hostage for Months but once she is free is Attacked by her own Country.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:44 pmDon’t know if anyone mentioned it or not, but it bears repeating that Jonah’s mother is Lucianne Goldberg, of Monicagate infamy.
If anyone is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, it’s Jonah. Apparently he survived the ordeal of his childhood but it destroyed his reasoning centers.
Do these people have any idea, any idea at all, how stupid they are? How petty, vindictive, and hypocritical they are?
THEY ARE A RUNNING JOKE!!
March 31st, 2006 at 4:45 pm#29 Your phony compassion for Jill’s driver is absurd. You are an unkind person and it is damn near obsene. As if you know anything about anything. I suppose you are a doctor and a lawyer? Yeah right; just another republican phony. Everyone is on to you guys now.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:51 pm#65 Holy crap. I had no idea; now everything is becomming clearer. Geez she is one evil piece of work. Why is it that the lower the IQ, the meaner the individual?
March 31st, 2006 at 4:54 pm#63 How clever you are. You sound just like Rush the dopehead.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:54 pm“#43 – The Statement was made – I asked for citation – your side can’t provide it – (objection sustained…) change your name to DemocrapSoldier – Mighty Moron”
Objection overruled. Saying someone is carrying the baby of a known terrorist, and is wearing terrorist gear, and is a terrorist sympathizer calls that person a terrorist. And reichwingers have consistently (you included) called for the killing of all terrorists. Sorry but your side has done exactly what Democratic Soldier has said. And your disrespect for his military service is exactly what I expect from the military hating, america hating fascist whackos like yourself. If you had any dignity or american values, you’d feel shame. But since you have neither, you just spout nonsense.
Sorry mighty moron, but you lose YET AGAIN. If you ever do become a laywer, I feel for your clients.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:10 pm“#60 – I always gave Clinton credit for the surplus – I also gave him the “credit†of raising taxes on Social Security recipients and the middle class. Comment by mighty aphrodite”
Then you give him credit for simultaneously saving social security, and helping to fund the reckless spending of bush. After all, without all of the current social security surplus, we’d be borrowing even more from your friends the Mandarins. Amazing how many times you have Democrats to thank for your very existence – yet in your psychotic fascism, you just can’t face reality.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:12 pmI read somewhere on the news that Jill Carrol was told what to say. There were three men with machine guns in the room. All these brave reporters sitting in safe studios and safe offices, who critisize a woman who’s been reporting from Iraq about how she performed before the camera after being held captive for 3 months…they didn’t even know the story. Some of the crass things I’ve read just turn my stomach. It is nothing more than the right showing their hatred for women and their need to have power over women. Gross.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:29 pmThe statement I write of in the above post was on Crooks and Liars.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:32 pm#66 – “Your phony compassion for Jill’s driver is absurd. You are an unkind person and it is damn near obsene.” progressively proud
****What would YOU know about compassion or kindness??? (I didn’t hear progs mentioning the driver or her heartfelt video – selective memories??) Now I can understand your full comprehension of “obscenity”.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:37 pm“****What would YOU know about compassion or kindness??? (I didn’t hear progs mentioning the driver or her heartfelt video – selective memories??) Now I can understand your full comprehension of “obscenityâ€. Comment by mighty aphrodite ”
And you didn’t hear progs say ‘her driver deserved to die’, and yet that’s exactly what you and the other reichwingers are claiming by saying she’s a terrorist.
You are one psychotic and messed up freak.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:40 pmThese manifest morons of the right are the George Costanzas of political discourse. If there was a fire in a children’s birthday party, Jonah the Coward would be the first one to the door, stepping over helpless 3 year olds to get there.
We must keep in mind that this kind of dribble comes from the clan who are shivering in their desk chairs in the Empire State Building because they are on the front lines of the War On Terror. The only thing they have to fear is fear itself – and the truth.
I catalogued last night some of the hate coming from the right. Clearly I will have to update that post today.
Now excuse me while I go vomit.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:40 pmok, I messed up the link in my last post, so here it is.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:44 pm“Does anyone in their right mind think that Think Progress would be rallying to this woman’s side if she emerged from her captivity saying George W. Bush was right and the people who kidnapped her were terrorist animals?”
That’s the heart of the matter, isn’t it? Jill Carroll is humanizing the enemy and it pisses the right off. They bitch that no one is accentuating the positive in Iraq but when someone does do so and it doesn’t align with their agenda, they dismiss it as lunacy. What kind of “moral center” must one have to reduce this woman’s experience?
None of us can even begin to imagine what it must feel like to know you might die by the tick of a clock and the passing of a deadline. When the euphoria of her freedom and life, both which she must have assumed were lost forever, fades and Carroll realizes what’s happened and who’s parished and crumbles into a psychologically damaged heep, will that make them happy?
March 31st, 2006 at 5:44 pmMore Carroll bashing…
This time, from Jonah Goldberg:MAYBE IT’S JUST ME [Jonah Goldberg] But Jill Carroll is increasingly starting to bug me. The details are still murky and it’s hard to appreciate what she’s been through. And maybe JPod’s right about Stockholm syndrome…
March 31st, 2006 at 5:58 pmNow the reichwingers can add conservative poppa William F. Buckley Jr. to the list of ‘liberal bush haters’. He publicall said today that:
So Mighty Moron, doesn’t that make him a ‘terrorist sympathizer’ in your book? That’s what you always say in your naive, and limited perspective of the world. Ah, the world through the eyes of a ‘child’.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:59 pmThe left would be “prattling on about how she lost her mind” just like the right is “prattling on” right now about how she’s “brainwashed” just because she told the truth about the “terrorists” not hurting her.
It’s not like she came out with here eyes gouged out and missing a limb, yet saying she was treated great. She’s fine, nothing happened. I’m beginnig to think that the right would have preferred it if she had her head sliced off.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
March 31st, 2006 at 6:09 pmMore on Jill Carroll: LCL
Did Dr. Pantload confer with Dr. Frist on this diagnosis?
Sad that the RWer’s want to find fault with those that try to facilitate peace in a country that we’ve been we’ve been attacking, directly or indirectly for 25 years. Ms. Carroll has far more courage than I to attempt such a task.
It’s ridiculous to even comment on her comments given the fact that they were made while still a ‘guest’ of the Iraqis.
March 31st, 2006 at 6:21 pmWhy does doughy pantload yellow elephant Jonah Goldberg hate Jill Carroll’s freedom so?
March 31st, 2006 at 6:39 pmWow – everyone expects Jill to react the way they might, had they been in her situation. But you’re not, and she’s reacting the way she’s reacting. Lots of people on this board are very, very angry. Can’t blame you, as things have gone to hell in the US as of late, but anger is a destructive force, and it’s really not doing anyone any good. The silly rightists egg you on, and you’ve fallen for it. Jonah would be mopping floors at Wendy’s if the left just ignored him and his drunk mom.
Many leaders of various peace movements talk about “absorbing the hate.” Not giving back the hate someone throws at you. Perhaps this is Jill’s attempt. Maybe not. But the rampant rage in this discussion has very little to do with Jill, and everything to do with the lack of a true progressive leadership in the US.
March 31st, 2006 at 6:44 pmHmmm? Beheading… might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
March 31st, 2006 at 7:33 pmHorseshit! Anger is not a destructive force if it is expressed for good reason at the right time and at the cause of the ire.. A more destructive force is to suppress the anger or turn it inwards.
March 31st, 2006 at 7:48 pm“Horseshit! Anger is not a destructive force if it is expressed for good reason at the right time and at the cause of the ire.. A more destructive force is to suppress the anger or turn it inwards. Comment by Troll faster! Bwahahaha! ”
That’s a strawman argument. You can learn to express your anger constructively, without supressing it. Those on the reichwing especially seem too stupid to know that there is an option for expressing anger constructively. I give you guys what you ‘understand’, because rational interactions with other human beings is beyond your ‘healthy’ capacity.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:04 pmHere’s some advice from the APA troll that might help you:
March 31st, 2006 at 8:05 pm
As usual every right wing nut on the planet has come out to attack Ms Carroll and Jonah Goldberg is one of the leaders. These guys see some liberal conspiracy under every rock, and he has the nerve to say he can think clearer than she can. What an idiot! I wish he’d take his fat you know what to Iraq so he could get it shot off and then I’d like to hear him talking about who can think better. He’s just like his snooping mother, Linda Tripp. He needs to worry about shoving too much food in his pie hole rather than a former hostage’s state of mind.
Get a life Jonah, you need to do a a diet before you can criticize anyone about anything. There’s alway so fat less than average looking republican waterboy with no girlfriend out there willing to take a cheap shot at any innocent person. You should not only say you are sorry, but a little butt kissing needs to be in order. What if someone attacked that trol of a mother of yours. Since you chose to insult Ms Carroll, I’ll do the same to you. On second thought, I’m not going to waste my time on a fool. To bad Lucca Brazee is sleeping with the fishes.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:43 pmJonah, we have an opening here at the Reich’s Ministry of Propaganda for you. You will do well in it, my boy.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:47 pmJonah Goldberg has a pencil dick.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:14 pmAnd then you have the brilliant atheist propping up your stupidity. Figures…
Comment by mighty aphrodite — March 31, 2006 @ 3:33 pm
At least you finally recognize my brilliance : ). Even if it’s still way over your head…
March 31st, 2006 at 9:39 pmYou are one psychotic and messed up freak.
Comment by Ryan Neat — March 31, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
Seriously Ryan, stop sugar coating it. (S)he’ll think you like her or something :)
March 31st, 2006 at 9:43 pmAFTERTHOUGHT – #2 Yes! So true! And while I don’t care to discuss Mr Goldberg’s issues, I will say that, though I never did respect it much in the first place, I have lost all respect for the LA Times, which, if I understand rightly, employs Mr Goldberg, is that right?
March 31st, 2006 at 10:29 pmEnough said. The idiot describes his own partisan motives for us. Do I sense him prattling on. Why yes I say. His Bush ass kissery has no bounds. As for him being in his right mind, it all depends what your definition of “right” is. He sounds a good match Coulter, she is right mind isn’t she?
March 31st, 2006 at 10:35 pmThe Monitor has her past articles, and they are pro-Iraqi’s as human beings, thank you very much
Uh, I don’t know…..sounds subversive to me…..
March 31st, 2006 at 10:37 pm#93 – That is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read on here. What a putdown! (#74) is a great post – EVERYBODY READ IT Thank you Ryan Neat
March 31st, 2006 at 10:41 pm
Obviously her comments must be taken with a grain of salt. Any statement she makes may be a part of an ongoing negotiation involving other hostages still in captivity, for all we know. What is shocking is how off the charts Goldberg went in his condemnation without allowing for a little time to process the events in question.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:54 pmbex – Beautiful. (#77)
March 31st, 2006 at 10:59 pmUNTHINK PROGRESS [Jonah Goldberg]
March 31st, 2006 at 11:52 pm…Is it really so crazy to think that Someone who hasn’t spent the last 20 years in Drunken Stupor by Self Inducement might be thinking more clearly than someone [George Bush] who has?
Another thought:
Possible “Stockholm Syndrome” aside, Carroll’s comments, to me, seemed geared more to the Iraqi television viewers than to American audiences and I think it was a fairly shrewd move that humanized an American to Iraqis, made her (and us) seem sympathetic, polite, respectful.
Goldberg is indulging in mind-reading and drawing conclusions without a basis. Carroll’s comments about her treatment as a captive don’t have any bearing whatsoever on her thoughts about other aspects of the situation, such as the death of the translator.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:55 pm#Cro-Magnon Theosophist and Narrow Minded Blamer [Jonah Goldberg]
…Is it really so crazy to think that Someone who hasn’t spent the last 20 years in Drunken Stupor by Self Inducement might be thinking more clearly than someone [Tom Delay] who has?
Comment by one eye buck tooth [X^B — March 31, 2006 @ 11:52 pm
March 31st, 2006 at 11:56 pmPost 47 the reason liberals get a bad name is because of stinking cowards like yourself! You are just like Lieberman or Biden > damn fools so prissy that even their mothers hate them! Worry about yourself guy because nobody cares what you have to say on here you complete phony! Go play in your sandbox with your Tonka trucks > lol.
April 1st, 2006 at 12:02 amI am just so glad that Jill Carroll is home safe .
April 1st, 2006 at 12:24 amSo in other words Jill Carroll is thinking just clearly enough to justify Jonah’s criticism, but not clearly enough to be credible.
April 1st, 2006 at 12:42 amSheesh, don’t any of you listen to NPR news? The CSM collegue in Baghdad explained that Jill Caroll was under threat from her captors to say nothing about them or they would reach in to the Green Zone and whack her. DUH! It seems she has her head pretty well screwed down and is holding her mud pretty well, all things considered. Let the craporatti crap on. Emulate #25.
April 1st, 2006 at 2:29 amIf Jonah Goldberg managed to survive 3 months as a captive, he no doubt would’ve said or done anything humanly imaginable to save his skin. That includes anything he’s accused Jill Carroll of and no doubt much worse. I would wager that Jonah Goldberg would be likened to the prison version of Jeff Gannon after his stay.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:45 amThe apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. What vicous cowards are the Goldbergs. How nice to sit in a comfy office and write opinions about which they know nothing…and then get paid for them!!! What a world!!!
April 1st, 2006 at 4:55 amI don’t see the point of this post. I hate to agree with Powerline or Jonah Goldberg on anything, but they come out being more reasonable here. Ms. Carroll went through a horrifying ordeal. Her praise of the insurgents as “good people fighting an honorable fight while the Americans are here as an occupying force treating the people in a very bad way” seems coerced according to Jonah Goldberg, as well as a counter-terrorism expert quoted by CNN, her editor at the Monitor, and yes, you guessed it, Jill Carroll’s own father.
I think in the coming days, you’ll see her thoughts change as well as she recovers and starts thinking clearly.
You should instead focus on the truly awful and disgusting comments on the Imus show that you were right to highlight.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:18 amJonah is the product of his skanky mother and hasn’t completely left the nest. I bet he phones her nightly for how to.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:46 amI’m glad she’s safe and ’sound’.
Is it time to ask some questions about the ordeal? Could it be that;
The bodyguard was really the intended target and the ‘kidnappers’ weren’t really kidnappers? They did out of the ordinary things, maybe they really didn’t know what to do with her.
We kidanapped her ourselves to be used as a useful tool in a war desparately needing good news?
Money may have been exchanged for her release?
April 1st, 2006 at 9:31 amAll I can say about Goldberg and the rest of the neocons who are trashing Ms. Carroll and her demeanor after being held hostage for almost 3 months is what a bunch of assholes. We should send all of them to Iraq and let them be held hostage for 3 months and see how they turn out at the backside of it. I, for one, am very thankful that Ms. Carroll made it through her horrendous experience relatively unscathed physcially. Who knows what kind of psychological trauma she underwent.
These people, Goldberg et al have no shame, no empathy, and no compassion.
They make me want to puke.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:45 amDon’t forget to put out your IMPEACH signs today…
…and you may want to add an “inter Jonah Goldberg sign too!
April 1st, 2006 at 10:23 amShe made a video while she was a *hostage*. I have yet to see her endorse the video post-hostage period. When she speaks, it will be clearer but the Stockholm speculation in B.S. considering they all make videos like this and all plead for their lives and criticize the ‘occupiers’.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:57 am“A couple of thoughts:
1. [...]
2. [...]
3. [...]”
You described 3 thoughts as “a couple“. “A couple” is 2, “3″ is “a few”. You’ve clearly lost your mind. Your liberal insistence on fuzzy math that only you can understand reveals that you’ve lost your moral center. Chewbacca is clearly a wookie. Therefore Bush must invade Venezuela, to save us from terrorists.
April 1st, 2006 at 11:03 amThose who support George W. Bush and all his lies are NOT in any position to talk about any other person’s “moral center.” There is no morality in supporting an illegal and immoral war. There is no morality is supporting a man who lies to the American people every time he opens his mouth. There is no morality in the killing of tens of thousands of innocent people. They are the immoral ones not Jill Carroll.
April 1st, 2006 at 2:10 pmThe sad thing is that there is not one word that Jill Carroll said about the United States illegal occupation of Iraqnam, or anything else, that wasn’t the truth. My guess is that now that she’s out of Iraqnam, she will never ever get a job with Faux “News” because she spoke the truth while under duress.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:39 pmWell, turns out all of them were right, and you, ThinkProgress, were wrong.
Carroll had been forced to say all that BS, and everyone with a brain realized this. Of course, those without a brain thought that Carroll was just speaking the truth, because you know, those terrorists could be a bunch of nice folks! Carroll is saying it on a video, it must be true!
Well, aside from the fact that those cuddly terrorists made her say those things… something that apparently nobody at ThinkProgress ever envisioned, for obvious reasons.
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:06 am[...] As I explained before Carroll’s statement was released, future comments by Carroll “may not be completely consistent with what she said moments after being released†but “Carroll is the only one who know the facts.†(Goldberg falsely claims that ThinkProgress and others “took her initial statements at face value.â€) The point was that, until the full story is revealed by Carroll, it is inappropriate for pundits like Goldberg and Podhoretz to attack her personally. [...]
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:14 amUntil such time as someones got the “goods” on her situation being a hoax, those who seek to discredit her are shameless!
April 2nd, 2006 at 4:11 pmThis young lady has shown more courage than most could, to think that she survuved at all when other s have not is enough for me. leave her alone. we cant even celebtaye ehr release without the howling pack from the right discrediting her!
Is such a daunting feat (thinking clearly) even POSSIBLE with young Jonah?
April 2nd, 2006 at 6:49 pmMy god you’re all mad!
It’s pretty clear by now that the hostage-takers FORCED her to say all the things you all still believe was heart-felt and honest.
Don’t you see the brutal irony here? The terrorists made here state AT GUNPOINT the very same things you all hope for her to say.
What does this mean?
April 4th, 2006 at 12:50 amI GO WITH LECHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR NUMBER 123!!!!!!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 1:02 pmI GO WITH LECHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR NUMBER 123!!!!!!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 1:03 pmI GO WITH LECHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR NUMBER 123!!!!!!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 1:03 pm