PowerLine Claims ThinkProgress “Rallies To The Defense Of Terroristsâ€
PowerLine Claims ThinkProgress “Rallies To The Defense Of Terroristsâ€
Paul Mirengoff of the popular blog PowerLine takes issue with my defense of Jill Carroll from right-wing attacks in a post called “‘Think Progress’ rallies to the defense of terrorists”:
By rejecting criticism of Carroll’s comments, and attacking those who place them in their proper perspective, the Think Progress author joins Carroll in casting the terrorists in a far better light than they deserve. Carroll did so after nearly three months of intense emotional distress. What is Think Progress’s excuse?
A couple of comments:
1. The authors of Powerline and other right-wing pundits are not in a position to put Carroll’s experience in its “proper perspective.†At most, they’ve seen a few seconds of video out of an 82-day ordeal. Just because Carroll’s initial comments didn’t fit in with their preferred narrative doesn’t mean there is something wrong with her.
2. Everyone agrees that terrorists and kidnappers are bad people. Powerline and others confuse Carroll’s efforts as a journalist to accurately describe her conditions in captivity with some subversive effort to rehabilitate the reputation of terrorists.
3. It’s quite possible that, in time, Carroll will provide more details about her treatment in captivity. These comments may or may not be completely consistent with what she said moments after being released. We’ll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, it seems inappropriate to attack her mental state, her patriotism or her character because she didn’t use the right’s preferred buzzwords about terrorists.
Jill Carroll being released from captivity is a piece of genuine good news from Iraq. Why is it so hard for the right to accept it.
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Chapter 8: The System was blinking red
April 1st, 2006 at 3:17 pmThere's plenty of people on the right that could teach Enrico Fermi a few things about how to spin.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:20 pmWhy does Mirengoff hate America so much?
April 1st, 2006 at 3:28 pmIt seems as if the right is more "pro-terrorist" for wanting them to kill Jill Carroll. If PowerLine admits that Carroll suffered "intense emotional distress" before she made her video comments, why are they criticizing them? She was forced to do the video, just like all the other hostages--end of story.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.co
April 1st, 2006 at 3:28 pmMore on the bashing of Jill Carroll: LCL
Jill Carroll being released from captivity is a piece of genuine good news from Iraq. Why is it so hard for the right to accept it.
"Because, your bad peoples MUST do your bad things. It's why they are bad peoples, see? Only Evangelical Christians ('cause all other kinds is just as bad as them goddamn atheists) qualify as good peoples. It's why we're tryin' to make all ya'll into Evangelicals. Make you stop doin' bad things, like criticizing me. Good for my poll numbers, too, see? Not that I care about poll numbers or nothin'"
April 1st, 2006 at 3:33 pmWhen they're not claiming Jill Carroll loves terrorists, they're busy claiming liberals love bad news. As usual, most of their criticism of Think Progress is true of themselves but not of Think Progress.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:33 pmI think we should be more concerned about civil war in America than in Iraq, frankly.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:35 pmThe CS Monitor has called the right-wingnuts on this as well.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0331/dailyUpdate.html
Amazing how these nutcases lack even the smallest semblance of human compassion. This woman has had every facet of her life controlled by kidnappers for the past 3 months - OF COURSE she's going to say what they want to hear! If she's on Islamic television OF COURSE she's going to cover her hair! The vituperative attacks spewing from these wingnuts get worse and worse every day. They seem to thrive on hate and anger - yet they majority of them will call themselves Christian. Go figure.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:36 pmWhy do these conservative pundits hate women so much? Would they treat a man so dismissively, so perversely? Is there a fundamental difference between the mindset that their comments reveal, that lack of human decency, and those "few bad apples" who found pleasure in the torture of prisoners? And, to draw the analogy further, are they that different than a person who could kidnap and hold another hostage? Hatespeak is Terrorism. Shameful. These are not the kind of Americans that the founders envisioned. They do not believe in equality. They do not believe in freedom. They do not believe in the unfettered persuit of happiness. These do not value liberty or justice for anyone.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:37 pmA bunch of right wing sausages. Think Progress rocks for standing up against these freaks.
Show the world what kind of taliban hatemongering these guys can really do. My favorite nutjob is Debbie Schlussel. Visit her site and enjoy the writings of a 2 year old mind.
I have a round up of most of the hatemongers here.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:39 pm#7 - That may not be too far away. Stirring up the Latino population, crapping on the poor, burdening the middle class, abandoning the old. Stormy times are ahead.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:39 pmJust imagine if she got back describing her rape and torture at the hands of her captors. Then we would have to endure their criticisms of not reporting any of the good things that happened while in the hands of the Iraqis.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:41 pmNot to mention that we now know the video was made under duress.
And fucking Goldberg is still grappling for a shred of anything that will make him look less like the twisted wreck of a human that he is. Today he's disparaging her over a new video that was found while she was still a captive.
These are such truly odious and witless f***. Hatred of what they represent is a sacred thing.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:43 pmJudd, your thoughtful sensitivity for Jill Carroll's plight and release is to be expected. EVERYONE knows progs CARE MORE, and FEEL MORE, than ANYONE else in the universe. When progs are not busy patting themselves on the back for their individual and collective sensitivity, they are busy looking for arenas in which to criticize their ideological opponents. EVERYONE is happy that Jill Carroll was released safely; most people understand the tremendous anxiety and duress she was under.
"Is it really so crazy to think that someone who hasn’t spent the last 82 days in captivity by Islamic kidnappers might be thinking more clearly than someone who has? " - J. Goldberg
This is YOUR highlighted portion - Goldberg's comment does not criticize, it is an apt description.
No, Judd - not .. "Everyone agrees that terrorists and kidnappers are bad people." You do read the thread, do you not? My favourite "indignations" belong to the TP regulars who commend Jill for "humanizing" the insurgents. I am sure she did so out of sheer relief to not have guns or cameras pointed at her while weeping and pleading for her life - tears which might be expected when remembering the two shots to the head the poor driver took.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:43 pmThey are just angry from being bloated and morning sick, carrying Chaney's baby for five years. But deep down they know it will be a still birth, hence the lashing out against the professionals.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:43 pmNRO, PowerLine, etc., have spent weeks complaining that the media never reports any good news from Iraq -- and now they're complaining about the good news! It's truly majestic to watch people with no scruples and no integrity backbend their way to a new spin every day, even if the spin contradicts their last spin.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:43 pmCorrection: Goldberg posted that last night. the point still stands.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:44 pm#7 - "I think we should be more concerned about civil war in America than in Iraq, frankly." - Comment by unbelievable
April 1st, 2006 at 3:46 pm****Excellent idea!!!!!
Judd - Why not discuss "objectively" the importance of Justice Ginsburgs thoughts on the importance of considering foreign law etc. as it applies to the US Constitution. (That's also in today's Powerline.) FYI, some people might consider that a tad more important than TP's pi$$ing contest with Powerline....
April 1st, 2006 at 3:56 pmAMEN Judd. I have been following the rights implosion over them not getting their "Jill Carroll beheading video". It is really sick. All we have and all we will ever have is Jill's story unless someone else is talking to her captures.
They talk about the media reporting the bad in Iraq - sounds more like the right is the ones wishing for it (and Debbie Schlussel has been one of the worst).
Jamie
April 1st, 2006 at 3:57 pmhttp://www.intoxination.net
Tell you what MA; how about you go and read some of the filth we are objecting too, think about how YOU would act in the same situation, and stop being such a wanker?
Maybe, just maybe she wasn't tortured, starved or treat that badly. Maybe she was, we don't know and we won't know until she is ready to really say anything which definitely isn't under duress, but right now, I would suggest you inform your blogging buddies to lay off. We don't need a bunch of cowards pissing on her name right now. We have seen too much of that already.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:01 pm#19 -- US law is rooted in foreign law, in case you hadn't noticed.
PS: Why did TP only rate a rebuff from Mirengoff? Wasn't the smart guy available?
April 1st, 2006 at 4:02 pmPowerline is valued asset of the Internet section of the Reich's Ministry of Propaganda. It is their job to pomote Big Lies on the web and make the ignorant masses believe in the goals of the National Socialist movement, which has successfully infiltrated the ranks of the Republican Party.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:17 pmOnce again the extremist right wing shows their hatred of American's on the front lines. I'll bet he has a yellow ribbon magnet and considers himself patriotic as a result. But does he show any real support for an American citizen held hostage by the enemy? No. Instead, typical of the right wing, he savages and smears an American citizen brave enough to go into a war zone and report back to the American people.
The right wing once again shows its true colors... yellow... and it's hatred and fear of brave and free Americans.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:18 pmPowerline is valued asset of the Internet section of the Reich's Ministry of Propaganda. It is their job to promote Big Lies on the web and make the ignorant masses believe in the goals of the National Socialist movement, which has successfully infiltrated the ranks of the Republican Party.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:18 pm#7 - That may not be too far away. Stirring up the Latino population, crapping on the poor, burdening the middle class, abandoning the old. Stormy times are ahead.
Comment by Blue County in a Red state — April 1, 2006 @ 3:39 pm
I truly hope I'm wrong, but all the factors you mentioned, left unchecked, seem to indicate that We the People need to stop taking the left vs. right bait and remember that 278 milliion Americans over power a few hundred out-of-control-freaks.
We need to remember that it is the United States.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:20 pmAndrew
The rightwing is red. It's the colour on their hands.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:20 pm****Excellent idea!!!!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 1, 2006 @ 3:46 pm
Sounds like you're volunteering your 4 bratsfor a war with other Anericans. You seriously need professional help. And a visit from DFACS.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:23 pmMA - What do you hope to gain by your posts? Do you really think you will change anyone's mind here about how Jill's release is being portrayed by the right wing blogs? I don't think so. Or is it just that Powerline DOESN'T ALLOW COMMENTS that makes you feel you need to get if off your chest here?
April 1st, 2006 at 4:24 pmLet's now forget, Carroll is a reporter. Reporters write articles, reports, stories and other interesting for money pieces. Why would anyone surviving her experience say much of anything within minutes / hours / days of being released? If she's true to her vocation, she will be writing a detailed article about her experiences...with -or- without a political point of view. The righties, are fearful of anyone who may acquire more support for their point of view than the bush/cheney bobble heads who specialize in faux news. The rights' reaction is about attempting to maintain Americans' fear of the terrorist....terrorists (according to the bush/cheney definition) can never be viewed as being anything close to real human beings.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:25 pmAm I missing something? When did the remarks made by people kidnapped in Iraq become the measure of one's status as a victim? Unless I am mistaken, being taken against one's will and witnessing one's translator being murdered does constitute a crime and does make one a victim.
If I understand the issue, the fact that Jill Carroll made remarks after her release that can be interpreted as sympathetic to the insurgents has raised the ire of many neo-con supporters of the Iraq war and the policies of the current administration.
If I understand this new victim equation, had Jill Carroll been murdered and her body was subsequently found, she would have been seen as a full-fledged victim. Unfortunately, the fact that she was released and made her statement means she wasn't actually a real victim, but more likely a collaborating propagandist.
Let's assume that Jill Carroll was able to negotiate her release by virtue of an ability to express an understanding of the motivations and objectives of her captors...say she convinced them she was sympathetic to their cause. Further, let's assume she agreed to make the statements she made as part of her negotiated release. Finally, let's also conclude that upon her release, she had no obligation to make the statement she agreed to make.
Apparently, those criticizing Ms. Carroll ceased all further analysis at this point. Unfortunately, our poisoned partisan environment has seemingly overtaken any obligation to apply additional reasoned and rational thought. That's unfortunate.
Regardless, I felt compelled to offer another perspective. Three years into a conflict with no certain end in sight has led me to conclude that what we need may not be more of the same. Henry Kissinger used to talk about detente when speaking about the Middle East. Since 9/11 such thinking is characterized as unpatriotic if not outright treason by the neo-cons.
Absolutist banter now permeates both sides of most arguments and issues...especially Iraq and the 'war on terror'. Ironically, at the same time, most people, if confronted, would acknowledge the likely end result of such discourse...look no further than the Israeli - Palestinian conflict. And yet, when the issue is our own (i.e. - American safety and security), we succumb to the same dogmatic, non-retractable positions. Clearly, history tells us the longer the conflict festers, the more recalcitrant both sides become.
Before making any conclusions it’s important to point out some critical background influences. One, this administration has repeatedly linked 9/11 to Iraq...not by saying Iraq participated in 9/11...but clearly by saying that Iraq is the battlefield upon which the 'war on terror' is being waged. Polls confirm the effectiveness of this manipulative mantra. Add the new phraseology of Islamo-Extremists to the equation and you have now further broadened the assault, the scope, and the divide. Now toss in longstanding sectarian conflicts, Kurdish independence, and Shia animosity at years of Sunni dominance and oppression. This seems pretty complicated to me.
Again, we're over three years into this conflict and some argue we are closer to civil war than to democratic civility. The history of societies has always proven that rule or change by the application of power will eventually fail if it doesn't include persuasion...that being winning over the hearts and minds of those you seek to rule or change.
So where does that leave us with Jill Carroll's remarks and the Iraq situation. I don't know Jill Carroll so I can only offer plausible observations. What I have read is that she is sincere in her concern for Iraq and the outcome of this war. She is respectful of Iraqi cultural and religious influences. She has tried to be a voice of moderation. Nonetheless, she was kidnapped by those who saw her as a target and a tool in their efforts to prevail.
Most importantly, she was apparently able to convince them of her sincerity and her integrity...she changed their hearts and minds to some degree...first to convince them to release here...and second, and more importantly...by completing her promise to make the remarks she made...to convince them that humanity is valuable and can also be trusted. Again, she didn’t have to keep any promise she may have made and I am not to saying that what her captors have possibly done to other victims or intended to do to her wasn't criminal and heinous. Regardless, she apparently touched some portion of their humanity...found some common ground upon which to agree...and unless we achieve more of this, we will remain sworn and reviled enemies. When absolute ideology is allowed to dehumanize the enemy, resolution can only be achieved through the barrel of a gun.
Lastly, as a non-believer, I am fascinated by the fact that on both sides of this conflict and many other long standing conflicts are individuals with fervent religious beliefs. I don't know Jill Carroll's personal religious beliefs, but I'm willing to assert that her actions better typify religious principles than the combatants on all sides of the Iraq conflict. If we can't find some common humanity, we are destined to lessen all of humanity. As it stands now, there will continue to be many more victims…regardless of how one defines the concept. Wars may allow for humanity to be suspended, but in the end it is only our humanity that can end wars.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:27 pm#21 - Bruce - Thank you for your valuable input. We DON'T know what Jill Carroll was subjected to - but, merciful God, she was released unharmed. You don't need me to tell "my blogging" buddies" anything - you seem PERFECTLY capable yourself. But while some here applaud Jill's post-release comments (made during a VERY stressful time) as attempts to "humanizing her abductors", perhaps TP should consider the not so fortunate end of peace activist Tom Fox. (I wouldn't consider his torture and murder "humanizing". I'm sure you agree, Bruce.)
April 1st, 2006 at 4:31 pmIt seems as if the right is more “pro-terrorist†for wanting them to kill Jill Carroll. If PowerLine admits that Carroll suffered “intense emotional distress†before she made her video comments, why are they criticizing them? She was forced to do the video, just like all the other hostages–end of story.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
April 1st, 2006 at 4:35 pmMore on the bashing of Jill Carroll: LCL
These reichwing bloggers are justing trying to divert the attention away from the fact that they are nothing more than yellow elephants. They would have denounced the US within the first 5 minutes of being kidnapped and that's without having automatic weapons aimed at their pointy heads..
April 1st, 2006 at 4:37 pm#32 So, following your logic, you agree than "Democratizing" Iraq by bombing innocent people makes Bush "inhumane", because he doesn't cares about Iraq's people suffering, and he only says good things about the invasion, ignoring the years of murdering?
April 1st, 2006 at 4:39 pm#15 - Cheney's baby? Still birth?
Great comments and true blue.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:44 pmJill Carroll statement putting all the f***ing worms back in their f***ing holes.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:55 pm"The new pattern, detailed in casualty and migration statistics and in interviews with American commanders and Iraqi officials, has led to further separation of Shiite and Sunni Arabs, moving the country toward a de facto partitioning along sectarian and ethnic lines -- an outcome that the Bush administration has doggedly worked to avoid over the past three years." -- NYT, lying its ASS OFF.
Yeah, invading the country, torturing and abducting people in the middle of the night on rumors or less, blowing everything up, failing to repair the water and power illegally blown up in the first place, pogrom on cities, failure to guard muntions, importing known terrorists from S. Africa and Chile -- yeah, the Bushies are WORKING HARD to avoid what they are causing.
"There is no more Iraq. There will be three territories." -- H. Kissinger, briefing Saudi clients in early 2004.
When the policy stands clear, IT IS GENOCIDE.
"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
Article IV: Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in article III shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals."
It is also an abrogation of Article 2 of the UN charter, which is US law. The president does not have the power to abrogate treaties (violation of the express powers of the Senate).
Spit on a NYT paperstand today.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:56 pmMA
Here is the difference between what I am saying, and what those rightwing vermin are saying.
I don't feel the need to denigrate her. I don't know whether she is telling the truth or not, but I am willing to suspend judgement pending corroborating evidence such as say, a medical exam or later statements by her.
Further, one does not know what she means by good treatment, as this could be anything from a lack of abuse and unnecessary discomfort, to them giving her Swedish massages in the evenings. One assumes she meant lack of abuse and that they didn't starve her while they held her captive.
In short it is reasonable to assume that she told the truth as she saw it.
On the other hand she could be lying for any number of valid reasons, which in no way impugn her character, but for now I for one feel it is apropriate to operate under the assumption that she told the truth. What we object to, is this need to insult and denigrate her after her ordeal, simply because she happened to survive and not say nasty things about her captors. That is what disgusts me.
April 1st, 2006 at 4:59 pmM.A.- The point we're trying to make is this: Jill Carroll like any other journalist in Iraq risk their lives to bring you the stories of the war, regardless whether it's good or bad. It's been mostly bad. I do not understand you're defense of these right-wing hypocrites like Goldberg, Coulter, and Laura Ingraham, I mean Ingrate whose philosophy is; "If a journalist protects himself or herself from being a body bag, they ain't worth heroes to me."
Does that mean that the two journalists from ABC, who were nearly killed don't deserve the respect and concern of the world? I guess that David Bloom wasn't a hero until he died, except that he died from sitting too long in one of those U.S.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:00 pmtanks. I guess that any journalist or soldier,without body armor, who dies deserve your respect. We'll then go right ahead, think what you feel, I guess when those soldiers or journalist come back alive, you certainly have the right to spit in their faces and call them traitors for coming back home alive to their families and friends.
Yeah, my girl you earned it. Just think of the soldiers who won't get those benefits then because King George, who never served a day in his life, decided that his needs were more important than theirs.
To Think Progress:
Thoughtful, measured, reasonable post. Thank you. It is such perspectives that make it unlikely that you will ever be understood by the right.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:01 pmwell, the thing the radical extremist neoconservatives do not like about what jill caroll said is that
IT IS ALL TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the neocoservative extremists are the true terrorists in this country.
and, they cannot stand any, and i mean ANY light shined on their LIES, DISTORTIONS and METHODS.
oh, and as always,F### bush
April 1st, 2006 at 5:04 pm37: There we go then. Sounds reasonable enough.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:04 pmCarroll was coerced to make her statements, making Jonah Goldberg's observation that something didn't seem right correct.
Judd, on the other hand, is not being coerced. His attempts to minimize the threat from our terrorist enemies in Iraq are entirely of his own free will.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:10 pm#28 - "Sounds like you’re volunteering your 4 bratsfor a war with other Anericans."
"Comment" by unbeliever
****I can just imagine you at parent/teacher conferences. "Ms. Smith, your brat keeps asking questions during my biology lectures..." or "Mr. Jones, your brat isn't working up to grade level..." The only war I'm preparing my darling little Repubs for is the barrage of anti-Americanism that seeps from progs. Call it a "battle of ideas". The only DFS cases I know of are nightly portrayed on our loCAL news - the neglected kids of "mis-understood" tweakers or poor, misguided gangbangers.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:13 pmNow that Carroll has released a statement saying she doesn't agree with her captors, how will the conservatives backtrack on all the hateful, vile things they've said about her over the past couple days?
April 1st, 2006 at 5:15 pm#37: It does, doesn't it.
#43: What a load. Goldstein et al. did not make "observations that something didn't seem quite right." What a slimeball cowardly and totally-expectable thing for you to say. I'm sure the others will follow suit.
They accused her of wrongdoing. Read their words. You can not step out fo your own slime on this, no matter how much you'd like to. We won't let you. and we won't forget.
You are pathetic.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:21 pm46
If they had any moral backbone they would apologise. As it stands they will probably just pretend they never said any of that. Its kind of the sort of thing one grows numb to after a while.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:22 pmIt is sad to actually find out that there are people out there who will gleefully attack anyone anything just because people who don't believe the same things as them defend it. Liberals defend Carroll, so those on the Right have to attack it - even if it doesn't makes ense to do so.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:25 pm#43: Sorry!!!!!!
that should have been to #44.
Hey #44, read my comment up there to #43. It's for you.
# 46: They'll do what the coward #44 just tried to do. "See, we told you it didn't seem right!" And pretend they didn't slur her personally.
Cowards every one.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:26 pm"Mighty" Aphrodite,
I guess it's good for us that you DON'T get to decide who is a good American and who is "anti-American."
You go ahead and make sure you protect your little darlings from the truth. They'll be a lot happier in life if they don't know how truly bankrupt the GOP is and how disastrous Bush has been for our nation. You keep your kids ignorant and blind to the reality that Bush and all his enablers are feckless turds needing to be flushed down the toilet before they cause irreparable damage to this country.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:27 pmWatch him try to bury his shit: http://corner.nationalreview.com/06_03_26_corner-archive.asp#093984
Me: In all sincereity: good for her. I take Carroll at her word and hope nothing but the best for her. I'm sure it was a terrible ordeal and I think, barring some major revelation, this should put an end to the criticism of her. Leave her be. I'm sorry for suggesting that she might have believed what she said. I hope there will be some apologies coming from those who did believe what she said.
Leave her be? You f***. Are you talking to yourself?
April 1st, 2006 at 5:29 pm#35- EvilOldSpaniard - So by your "logic" - you are an idiot. If possible, please name one war you agree with and how many innocents were accidentally killed in that war. Video games and arguments with your mom don't count.
#40 - JIMBOB - lay off the bong or the Prozac. I don't criticze Jill Carroll one IOTA for her statement(s) immediately after her release. I said on another thread my initial reaction to describing her good treatment was to inform her parents that she was unharmed. Why does TP Judd criticize Jonah Goldberg for saying he is in a position to think more clearly as he has NOT been in captivity for 82 days? JIMBOB, you and I rarely agree on anything, but I think you would correct in saying that you were able to think more coherently than me if I had just been released from 82 terrifying days. TP's mission in life is to introduce partisan topics - and on a "non-partisan" site that can be seen as alot of tripe. Now if Jill Carroll comes out like a moonbat in my local paper today and writes that "Saddam should be returned to power" - (I kid you not!) then I will criticize her ideas strenuously! I haven't heard what Laura Ingraham has said and won't comment. Have you always been such a rabid reactionary????
April 1st, 2006 at 5:30 pmNo one slurred her. Get a grip.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:32 pm****I can just imagine you at parent/teacher conferences. “Ms. Smith, your brat keeps asking questions during my biology lectures…†or “Mr. Jones, your brat isn’t working up to grade level…â€
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 1, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about. You're such an idiot - I don't teach Biology.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:32 pmP.S JIMBOB - "Does that mean that the two journalists from ABC, who were nearly killed don’t deserve the respect and concern of the world?" Are you in the habit of asking the MOST stupid questions????? They deserve our utmost respect - they are no longer in a position to worry about our "concern".
April 1st, 2006 at 5:33 pmAnd before the apology he did exactly what I said he'd do:
Who took her words at face value? I didn't see anybody on teh Left say anything but "God I'm glad she's safe!"
"Didn't scan." What a coward.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pm#54
April 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pmNo one slurred who?
# 54: You're a coward a liar. Here's Goldberg:
I accuse you of willfully ignoring the facts and thereby being a liar.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:39 pmPro-Democracy
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2006/03/did_she_have_a.html
You were saying?
Or how about Imus?
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/30/imus-carroll/ (Just download the mov. file.)
Would you like me to go on?
April 1st, 2006 at 5:40 pmPerhaps "Pro-Democracy" only watches Fox News.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:41 pmIf she had done an Lindy England they would give her a purple heart ,book deal with regency publisher but ... she did what she was ordered to do by her captors ,she did very much the same thing that Jews did in WW2 on Nazi Radio,Stage,Movies and Print.
We can't fall into the their"2. Everyone agrees that terrorists and kidnappers are bad people' this is their game and since 2000 we have taken their bait and apolized for where we stand.
Think Progress has done the right thing by supporting a Journalist during this war. The right wingers are the ones that are going to lose when mS Carroll does her first interview with the paper that she works for and then TV interviews by then The Right Wingers will be covered with MUD and its their own Mud at that.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:43 pmDear L-I-T-E-R-A-L unbeliever - I don't care if you teach basket weaving - my point is the way you might address parents. (I thought one purpose of higher education was to expand horizons and spark one's imagination - it didn't work in your case.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:47 pmSaddam was a CIA op as Well as Osama.
How So do poor people finance these guys?
Clue. They Can't.
Secondly they were Both CIA trained Puppets.
Big Corporations and Government Appease and Arm terrorists.
Hey Powerline how much do you think the Terrorists were able to purchase with that 8 Billion Paul Bremer [Cough Cough] Lost? What About Reagan Financing and Arming those 'freedom fighters' just as Dubya Has done.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:48 pmThose weren't slurs.
This "Thorn" is clearly in need of some sort of counseling. Get a grip.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:49 pmy point is the way you might address parents. (I thought one purpose of higher education was to expand horizons and spark one’s imagination - it didn’t work in your case.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 1, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
i guess you missed that court case where Teachers don't have freedom of speech. How can you expand horizons if you must teach only the mistakes of the Past?
April 1st, 2006 at 5:50 pmIf only they would support America occasionally.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:51 pm# “Think Progress has done the right thing by supporting a Journalist during this war. “
If only they would support America occasionally.
Comment by Pro-Democracy — April 1, 2006 @ 5:51 pm
Your Not supporting America with that Idiotic TRIPE, your supporting Halliburton and the "Neo-Liberal" Privatized Nation of America. You are Actually supporting the "Liberals" that you so claim to hate..Boy have they GOT YOU SNOOKERED!!
April 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pmActually Pro, that is precisely what Thom's quote comes out to.
That specific rhetorical question is basically accusing her of lacking a moral compass and not being in her right mind. I would call calling someone a immoral loony a slur wouldn't you? Further, it is rather a scuzzy guilt trip, it is like telling plane crash survivors that they shouldn't be happy that they survived because other people didn't.
April 1st, 2006 at 5:56 pmIRI MaD and Pro-Democracy are too DAMM stoopid to realize that NEO_CONS are NEO-LIBERAL FEUDALISTS
April 1st, 2006 at 5:57 pmIf you work it down, Jill Carrolls primary flaws are several (as will eventually come out if the wingers are given enough rope):
1) She bears the blame for being captured.
2) She bears the blame for being a woman in a male-only warzone.
3) She bears the blame for being honest. Recall the famous Jessica Lynch episode, when SHE was to blame for telling the truth about the doctor's good treatment of her. All Iraqis MUST be shown to be animals deserving of extinction.
4) She bears the blame for surviving, since decapitation would serve the Bush propaganda machine. Her survival is a DEFEAT for the wingers who wish to profit from her decapitation, as they have used the four Blackwater® mercs' violent deaths in Fallujah to justify destroying 70% of the buildings in that city.
When will women learn that they are the soldiers, and the men are the generals? Their job is to DIE PRETTY, and that's all. Anything else TAKES AWAY THE JOBS THAT AMERICAN MEN NEED.
Yep. that's right -- Jill Carrol is MEXICAN. She was mucking about in a (Tillman) man's war, and was released by her captors without needing "rescue" (Lynch). And so she has taken away the propaganda value she had.
Hopefully, she was anally raped (Kaloogian). That's her only redemption route at this point. Does she have any CDs to burn?
April 1st, 2006 at 5:59 pm70
No, they just realise there is nothing liberal about their idealogy. Liberal idealogy is based on the concept of liberty (hence, liberal) what the neo-cons are aiming at is just a wee bit away from that concept.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:00 pmIsnt JEb Bush's wife a Mexican?
April 1st, 2006 at 6:04 pmYa know that one whom didn't want to pay for the stuff she brought into the country?
The Mother of that Dope Head Half Breed Crack Head- Noelle Bush?
Say She sounds like the perfect Woman For Rush Limbaugh
Jonah didn't call her a immoral loony. You're either illiterate or you're a liar. probably both.
Saying someone might not be entirely in their right mind after being a hostage for 3 months is not a slur. It's a reasonable expectation.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:06 pmJill Carroll's statement (courtesy of the Christian Science Monitor: "I'm so happy to be free and am looking forward to spending a lot of time with my family. I want to express my deep appreciation to all the people who worked so long and hard for my release. I am humbled by the sympathy and support expressed by so many people during my kidnapping.
"In the past few days, the US military and officials have been extremely generous, and I am grateful for their help. Throughout this ordeal, many US agencies have committed themselves to bringing me safely home.
"My colleagues at The Christian Science Monitor have worked ceaselessly to secure my release, and worked with security consultants to do so. Many other news organizations, both inside and outside of Iraq, as well as many officials from Iraq and other countries, worked hard to bring about my freedom.
"So many people around the world spoke out on my behalf.
"Thank you, all of you.
"During my last night in captivity, my captors forced me to participate in a propaganda video. They told me they would let me go if I cooperated. I was living in a threatening environment, under their control, and wanted to go home alive. I agreed.
"Things that I was forced to say while captive are now being taken by some as an accurate reflection of my personal views. They are not. The people who kidnapped me and murdered Alan Enwiya are criminals, at best. They robbed Alan of his life and devastated his family. They put me, my family and my friends--and all those around the world, who have prayed so fervently for my release--through a horrific experience. I was, and remain, deeply angry with the people who did this.
"I also gave a TV interview to the Iraqi Islamic Party shortly after my release. The party had promised me the interview would never be aired on television, and broke their word. At any rate, fearing retribution from my captors, I did not speak freely. Out of fear I said I wasn't threatened. In fact, I was threatened many times.
"Also, at least two false statements about me have been widely aired: That I refused to travel and cooperate with the US military and that I refused to discuss my captivity with US officials. Again, neither is true.
"I want to be judged as a journalist, not as a hostage. I remain as committed as ever to fairness and accuracy--to discovering the truth--and so I will not engage in polemics. But let me be clear: I abhor all who kidnap and murder civilians, and my captors are clearly guilty of both crimes.
"Now, I ask for the time to heal. This has been a taxing 12 weeks for me and my family. Please allow us some quiet time alone, together."
April 1st, 2006 at 6:07 pmDear L-I-T-E-R-A-L unbeliever - I don’t care if you teach basket weaving - my point is the way you might address parents. (I thought one purpose of higher education was to expand horizons and spark one’s imagination - it didn’t work in your case.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 1, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
You also missed my joke... and you claim we have no sense of humor. That's because we're more sophisticated with our puns. You're just crude. As usual.
I don't think all children are brats or I wouldn't have made the career change to education. I'm just certain that yours are. And since you aren't a parent of anyof thestudents in my class, I can tell you so.
Besides, by hig hschool, you should start cutting the chord and letting your kids learn to negotionate their own issues instead of running to the principal because I marked the answer 'god' wrong to the question of 'How did teh solar system form'.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:10 pm#9 SeriusA - "Why do these conservative pundits hate women so much? Would they treat a man so dismissively, so perversely?..."
reading some back issues of Time this morning, came across this, in the "verbatim" page:
"I have no animosity toward them at all. I've seen their little villages. They're dirt poor, poor as field mice." -Macon Hawkins, Texan oil worker in Nigeria, on his militant captors following his relase on †his 69th birthday after being held hostage with eight colleagues for nearly two weeks
...here is an article about his story...
no, it's not iraq...but the parallels are there...i don't know much about his story - it did strike me that his comments about his captors went unheralded and, maybe, unvilified...
it's incomprehensable to me how those people sould criticize jill carroll so soon after her release, before any relavent information came out... "judge not..."
April 1st, 2006 at 6:12 pmJudd, if you are reading this:
You should probably run an article on Jill Carroll's retraction of her earlier statements at some point.
Goodnight all.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:12 pmMy near vision is perfect, but the text in the window of the comment box is less than 6 pt. My typing is bad enouugh on its own without the microscopic text. Any one know how to make it bigger?
April 1st, 2006 at 6:13 pmHaving read several comments from "unbelievable", I wouldn't let him/her anywhere near my children.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:14 pm#29- Dear Shannon - You ask two important questions: "What do you hope to gain by your posts? Do you really think you will change anyone’s mind here about how Jill’s release is being portrayed by the right wing blogs?"
****As I have said (repeatedly!) on this blog - the few conservatives who visit here perform a highly valuable public service. WE keep this place from becoming so tedious and monotonous (translation: "boring") Without us, here is a sample of a typical TP exchange:
unbeliever: "I am so overworked and unappreciated due to the evil capitalistic policies of greedy, God- loving Republicans."
evil-minded Spainard: "Don't worry, unbeliever, the red tide coming from Cuba and South America will sweep away the injustices of Republicanism..."
TurtleTerry: "My shell protects me from deadly RepubRays...."
Sharon: "George Dumbya, that spoilt spoon fed frat boy is the worst Prezident I've seen in my entire lifetime. I sure do appreciate every bit of "social justice" progressives fight for. Repubs pay for the poor and Democrats are grateful for the poor....Blessings."
unbeliever: "Thanks Sharon - but no thanks!!"
So Shannon, I know I will never change a closed mind...but we do our part to keep this site a bit more interesting.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:14 pmsome people give themselves WAY too much credit...
April 1st, 2006 at 6:20 pm#53 So by your “logic†- you are an idiot. If possible, please name one war you agree with and how many innocents were accidentally killed in that war. Video games and arguments with your mom don’t count. - MidgetHag
Too easy. I agree with no war. Hence, I don't agree with your GOPers, or you, because they started a preemptive war, and you personally are one of the morons who support them.
You're a moron and you will NEVER win me on a logic fight. Brains are needed to start one.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:20 pm#70 - "Liberal idealogy is based on the concept of liberty (hence, liberal)"
- Comment by Bruce G.
****Liberal ideology WAS based on liberty - now it's based on "political correctness" and a deep seated "anti-American" "anti-capitalist" furor...
April 1st, 2006 at 6:24 pmPowerline : "them dam liburals"Q. Why do conservatives have America? A. They hate us because of our freedoms.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:29 pmEvil Spainard - So you are content to let OTHER people defend your freedoms???? I thought so...do you have your white hankie ready "just in case"??? What was Spain's position in World War II??
I hope I never "win you on a logic fight" - I'd have to give you back - and your mother (God bless her!) would have to give you your old room back.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:32 pmCorrection to #85. Q. Should read Why do conservatives hate America?
April 1st, 2006 at 6:33 pmfound something for pro-undemcracy/Ned/wallace/et al:
Finally, the STREET FIGHTING SECRETS of your favorite Republicans revealed!!!
April 1st, 2006 at 6:35 pm"They won't dare call you "Mr. Limpy" ever again!"
You don't think she was slurred? How quickly you've revised your history. Here's a compilation of some of them:
Caroll Bashing
April 1st, 2006 at 6:40 pmHaving read several comments from “unbelievableâ€, I wouldn’t let him/her anywhere near my children.
Comment by Pro-Democracy — April 1, 2006 @ 6:14 pm
Having read several comments from you - THANK YOU! I wish every parent of every whiny brat would do the same. Then my classes would be more lecture and less baby sitting becuase you people think I'm supposed to do your job in raising your child.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:41 pmSo Shannon, I know I will never change a closed mind…but we do our part to keep this site a bit more interesting.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 1, 2006 @ 6:14 pm
some people give themselves WAY too much credit…
Comment by katy — April 1, 2006 @ 6:20 pm
I second that katy!
April 1st, 2006 at 6:44 pm#48 - Bruce G,
April 1st, 2006 at 6:46 pmNeocons have neither morals nor a backbone. Cowardly hypocrites is the best description of the whole lot.
#86 We had no position. The fascist General Franco coup ended the government of the Democratic Republic of Spain after the Spanish Civil War. He pacted with Hitler and Mussolini, and went unscathed through the end of the WWII, because NO ALLIED ARMY came here to "free" us from Franco. June 6th signifies nothing to us. People was executed until 1973, 2 years before Franco died IN A BED.
Some freedom fighters (maquis) were fighting Franco until the '50s, when they were decimated. Many died in german concentration camps before the end of the WWII. Altough no "History Channel" documentary talks about them.
The Marshal plan never included Spain because "our" ruler was a fascist one. Your country only came when you needed some military bases to "fight against the communism", in the mid of the '50s. Only then, your government extorted Franco to have him give permission to make a couple bases with no end term. Your country own these bases until today. So talk about benefits of appeasing terrorists and fascists.
So, nobody fought our war. And your country, less than anyone. Answered your question?
Oh, and happy April's MightyAphrodite Day.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:48 pmIf you consider bringing down the IQ level interesting.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:48 pmPowerline is a fascist putz who can honk Bobo's nose. Tell him to go bother someone who gives a dead rat's ass.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:48 pmDS, linking to a list of non-slurs demonstrates my point, thank you.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:49 pmOh, and happy April’s MightyAphrodite Day.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — April 1, 2006 @ 6:48 pm
Now that's humorous...
April 1st, 2006 at 6:53 pmfrom the comments at crooksandliars, jill carroll's statement:
Jill may have a record in the making here; she has gone from prisoner to terrorist sympathizer to lezbian left wing liberal lover all on the space of two days...-dawg
April 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pm#97 Yes, MightyAphrodite ALWAYS is a joke ;)
April 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pmSheesh. So much to say about so little. This solipsistic, self-indulgent "controversy" exists only in what's left of your minds.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:01 pm#93 - Evil Spaniard ,
April 1st, 2006 at 7:05 pmFranco escaped the wrath of the Allies because he was smart enough not to declare war on them. I do recognize that Spain suffered under his rule, but until Bush 43, this nation observed International law and the Constitution.
The Right wings should keep their big mouths closed. They don't know what they are talking about. Jill Carroll was kidnapped for 3 months. Why would anyone want to cut her down? What do expect from the Repubs. Why do they hate America?
April 1st, 2006 at 7:17 pmAnybody who thinks Jill Caroll or the people that support her are terrorist sympathizers. Now that she is safely away from Iraq and in Ramstein Germany, she is able to speak freely and she ain't sending love letters to her captors.
Christian Science Monitor
April 1, 2006
Jill Carroll Statement
Nope, no Stolkholm Syndrome here. Just a regular person, who was put in an irregular situation and is now being smeared by the right.
Way to go righties.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:18 pmAnother good snippet from Jill Caroll's statement from Ramstein:
April 1st, 2006 at 7:21 pm
Whats that about not being threatend?
"I also gave a TV interview to the Iraqi Islamic Party shortly after my release. The party had promised me the interview would never be aired on television, and broke their word. At any rate, fearing retribution from my captors, I did not speak freely. Out of fear I said I wasn't threatened. In fact, I was threatened many times."
April 1st, 2006 at 7:23 pmThose are the people the Democrats want to retreat from.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:24 pmI wonder what the presumed 2008 Republican Presidential nominee McCain would have to say to Dr. Pantlaod on the subject of coerced confessions.?
April 1st, 2006 at 7:26 pmIn the efforts to open up further dialogue between parties who have differing opinions on the big political issues of our times, I’ve been reading various liberal blogs to see not only what the pundits and talking heads in the media have to say on the issues, but what normal hard-working Americans have to say on the topics as well.
The most contentious of issues, of course, is the war in Iraq – and it doesn’t take a genius to see that Iraq is a country with a real chance of developing a peaceful and stable democracy if given the proper support by the United States and coalition forces. While it has been a difficult road, we must not run in the face of danger and must not shirk our commitment. We need to see it through and stay in Iraq as long as it takes for a stable government to flourish.
We also do not want to dishonor the memory of those who have died during this process of democratization – we don’t want to leave the job half-done and have the deaths of those people be in vain. And that brings me to the most central point: progress is being made. While you often hear about attacks on coalition or civilian forces, what you don’t hear that much about is the actual progress being made in Iraq. Every day there is progress. Schools open, small businesses are being started, and the Iraqi National Guard is getting stronger and more able to handle the demands placed on it.
If we abandoned Iraq now, we would be leaving it open for another authoritarian regime to move in, and leave the citizens of Iraq to a similar fate they suffered under Saddam if not worse, and it would make all the blood, sweat and tears we’ve spent in the conflict be for nothing.
The war was a war of necessity, and once the sectarian conflict resolves itself, Iraq will be a pro-Western beacon in the Middle East, a beacon that will extend Western influence, as well democracy, into the region, be a buffer against terrorism, and give the people who lived under the yoke of Saddam for years a better, brighter future.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:26 pm#101 I know, but it boils my blood when one of those repugs come with the "we saved your sorry asses" phrase, because nobody did. And btw, I doubt Franco's government was legal under international wars. But yes, when Hitler came to Hendaya to interview with Franco, Franco diplomatically refused immediate help to Hitler.
Hitler and Franco at Hendaya
April 1st, 2006 at 7:27 pmFor the life of me I don't understand why the righties chose to pick on this poor girl and make her the figurehead of all that is, in their minds, wrong with "progressives".
How do you make someone who just got out of 82 days captivity, and make 'em a villan? This is gonna score them points?
No, really I think it's endemic of something similar but very different. Conservatives seem to have to continually shout to the world how much more superior they are than anyone not up there with them. They like to fight others. Older than but not too far removed from schoolyard bullies.
If your not like me, you ain't nothin' in theri minds. Some of them even say out loud that no one but them should be able to vote/run things. The others just think it.
I don't like 'em & their closed, petty & vengeful minds. But I'm willin' to let 'em be. Just cause I think they're stupid doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to be there. Thats a big difference between us and them.
Educate, enlighten, discuss it. That's their Achilles Heel.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:32 pm#109 The war was a war of necessity
Necessity of who? Bush?
and once the sectarian conflict resolves itself
Uhm... sectarian violence in the Persian Peninsula hasn't stopped since 2 thousands years ago, at least.
Iraq will be a pro-Western beacon in the Middle East, a beacon that will extend Western influence, as well democracy, into the region, be a buffer against terrorism, and give the people who lived under the yoke of Saddam for years a better, brighter future.
I have no words. You live in a world of delusion, at best.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:33 pmColgate,
As a source for what normal hard-working Americans have to say about anything, Think Progress is definitely not the place. If you're looking for what the Bush-hating, pro-defeat, moonbat left thinks, you've hit the motherlode.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:33 pm#109
April 1st, 2006 at 7:35 pmWhile there is a lot in your post that I disagree with, The war was a war of necessity stands out above all else. After all the facts about the invasion of Iraq have come out, are you dilusional? Please provide us with the facts behind your statement.
#113 So all the normal hardworking americans are as you, Pro-Democracy (?) and Colgate?
April 1st, 2006 at 7:37 pmSorry for the spelling - delusional.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:38 pm"...it doesn’t take a genius to see that Iraq is a country with a real chance of developing a peaceful and stable democracy..."
but a delusional fool can think about that idea all the live long day...la de da...
sorry, don't mean to offend, but that was just too obvious...
April 1st, 2006 at 7:51 pm#110 Oops, when I tipped "international wars", I meant "international laws", really.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:55 pmWrong!
We wanted to not go to this war. But since it was decided to go to this elective war long before 9/11, the Bush cabal should have sent enough troops to finish the job, but since none of them have any military experience, they sent way too few troops.
Did you know that during the Gulf War when Dick Cheney was Secretary of Defense and said we didn't have enough coalition troops to occupy Bahgdad, there were 660,000 coailition troops. 540,000 were Americans. We only have 138,00 Americans there, with a total of around 27,000 non American troops, bringing the total to 165,000.
How are you going to do with 165,000 troops what you could not do with 660,000 troops?
Do a little research and you might find out why we feel the way we do, but instead you post stupid bullshit.
Here is the quote from Dick Cheney in 1992:
So, with 660,00 troops, Dick Cheney didn't think the loss of life was worth going after Saddam Hussien, but with 165,000, Bush and frined think they can pull it off.
Give me a fucking break.
April 1st, 2006 at 7:55 pmThe question isn't why republicans hate America so much it's why republicans are so frightened of the concept of liberty and justice for all. That these are the founding principals of this great country is coincidental.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:02 pm#109 Colgate;go brush your teeth you dipshit.This war will never work out for us;its being shoved right back up BushCo's ass where it belongs.Spudge_Boy,youre insightful as usual.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:07 pmWhat Carrol has said now that shes not a captive:
April 1st, 2006 at 8:10 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/01/carroll.video/index.html
Mighty Aphrodite,
April 1st, 2006 at 8:11 pmYou don't get to define what "liberalism" is all about. We liberals get to define it. And I'm going to begin by stating that liberalism is an ideology that supports your right to spew the kind of ignorant, vile nonsense that you post on this board. The second part of the liberal ideology is that we also get to point out your stupidity and laugh at your apparent blindness of the terrible reality that is Bush and the GOP.
Oh, please. Be honest for once. Think Communist would light the fuse on a bomb that would take out Berkeley if they could figure a way to make George look bad and Bill and Hillary look good. It doesn't matter that rumors abound about the upcoming nuptials between Jill and Achmed Moohamet Jones, a black bass player from New Jersey turned Muslim who she met during an International ANSWER rally in the Gardens just prior to assignment to Iraq.
Jill is the ideal Left Wing undercover shill for the terrorists. She not ugly like Cindy Sheehan and not dead like Rachael Corey and she has that "Christian" thing going for her, as in "The Christian Science Monitor". BTW...do any of you losers KNOW what Christian Science" is all about? AND....why are they monitoring YOU????
Let's face it, as long as long as that broad doesn't eat pork or shack up with a Republican as far as the Looney Left is concerned she can do no wrong. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:15 pmThe question isn’t why republicans hate America so much it’s why republicans are so frightened of the concept of liberty and justice for all. That these are the founding principals of this great country is coincidental.
Comment by SiriusA — April 1, 2006 @ 8:02 pm
I think it's mostly becauise they believe that there is one right way to live - their way. And that those who do anything otherwise are criminals who need to be constrained by laws, regulations, patronization, and violence. It's a very burdened and pathetic existence to be your brother's keeper over 280 million other people...
April 1st, 2006 at 8:15 pmsad~
i am presently in iraq and have been so for a while.
came to this site from a productive and informative website thinking it would similar.
it sucks that people spend more time insulting one-another and using their wit to put down others.
that energy could be spent trying to keep shit like what is going on over here from happening.
both parties are at fault for many of the things going on.
seems to me awfully simplistic to relentlessly attack a person.
harder, i guess to present critical thought and offer reasonable solutions. but what the hell, it's a free country.....
see ya
April 1st, 2006 at 8:17 pm#109 Colgate:
The hardest thing about starting an SSRI-based pharma therapy is working to determine a dosage level that permits you to perform routine chores and on-the-job functions at pre-therapy levels, while avoiding the emotional swings, cognitive dysfunctions and dangerous flights of episodic euphoria that can accompany the unusually high availability of serotonin to neural receptors.
You may, for example, find that you are quite capable of performing normal tasks such as typing at a keyboard, while irrationally believing that the war in Iraq is going well. In some instances, however, you may not be the best judge of just how far-fetched and indefensible your view of the world may be. Ask a friend or family member to help you monitor dosage, and sit with you while you watch the news.
If delusions persist, SEE YOUR DOCTOR!
April 1st, 2006 at 8:19 pmSniff...sniff....sniff...
Ah, now I know what that reek is- I-RIGHT-I has infested this discussion.
You talk a lot of shit- but I guess that's what you neo-cons are best at- because you sure as shit don't actually go and fight in Der Fuhrer's war in Iraq.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:20 pm#76 - We agree on one thing - kids should lear to fight their own battles - or "negotiate" - if your prefer. But at our kids schools, soccer and baseball fields, the WHINEY parents seem to be the progs. "It's just not fair the way Ms. Smith evaluated darling Throckmorton's project......"
#120 - Thank you, Shannon.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:21 pmI think it’s mostly becauise they believe that there is one right way to live - their way. And that those who do anything otherwise are criminals who need to be constrained by laws, regulations, patronization, and violence. It’s a very burdened and pathetic existence to be your brother’s keeper over 280 million other people…
Comment by unbelievable
Nonsense. The Left invented political correctness, hate crimes and homophobia. 'Nough said?
April 1st, 2006 at 8:25 pmGo ahead, tell me I’m wrong.
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 8:15 pm
Why? It hasn't mattered any of the other 12,345,678 times we've told you.
What happened to your h?
April 1st, 2006 at 8:25 pm#129 R.D.L. Sounds like a good diagnosis for that bone head.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:26 pmEveryone knows the real whiners are the GOP. They control the White House, Senate, House, Supreme Court, most state governors and still they blame Dems/liberals/progressives for all the GOP failures. The GOP had better start supporting abortion, because just about every initiative they undertake turns into one! F@cking losers.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:28 pmThe right wants to control how you feel, think, talk, and do, from their very comfortable positions. They know how to tell everyone else how to live their lives, but they don't give a hand to help actually make things better.
It is really a sickness the right has, exploiting people, attacking, calling them names, judging them when they have no idea what the person went through. So smug they judge others. Look how they used Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch, and Cindy. Anything to hear themselve speak. If you pray, pray for them to come to their senses. They are to be pitied for their pathetic character towards other human-beings that have just gone through the worse experience of their lives. What next, are they going to do a jig on Cindy Sheehan son's grave. Just like those baptists from Kansas yelling inhumane filth at soldiers' funerals.
I guess maybe we should ask Senator McCain, what it is like to be held captive, or maybe we could actually wait until Carroll gets home, is safe, and can be professionally taken care of.
We should remember when Carroll made those statements she was not at the American Embassy, so she was not safe.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:28 pmNotice to te administrators:
Even on my Cray and Dept. of Defense/VRWC Central access lines your shit is slow which means your blog-fu sucks. It's been that way since the first of the week. Somebody turn off the porno and degrag the server. Thank you.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:30 pmRyan,
April 1st, 2006 at 8:33 pmYou have that right. Those pricks seem to relish the "persecution complex." Hell, they figured McCarthy almost got away with it during the Red Scare so why not try it again for shits and grins. Bunch of cobags.
In case you haven't read Jill Carroll's statement today:
In her statement, Carroll thanked everyone who worked for her release, but devoted a significant portion of the statement to defending herself against criticism regarding the video, in which she said the insurgents were "very smart" and had treated her well.
"During my last night in captivity, my captors forced me to participate in a propaganda video," she wrote. "They told me they would let me go if I cooperated. I was living in a threatening environment, under their control, and wanted to go home alive. I agreed.
"Things that I was forced to say while captive are now being taken by some as an accurate reflection of my personal views. They are not."
She even lambasted her captors, who allegedly killed her interpreter, Alan Enwiya, when they abducted her in western Baghdad in January.
"They robbed Alan of his life and devastated his family. They put me, my family and my friends -- and all those around the world, who have prayed so fervently for my release -- through a horrific experience," she wrote. "I was, and remain, deeply angry with the people who did this."
Saying she wants to be regarded as a journalist, and not a hostage, Carroll said she would not engage in polemics against her kidnappers, "but let me be clear: I abhor all who kidnap and murder civilians, and my captors are clearly guilty of both crimes."
And by the way, can SOMEone please remove #107?
April 1st, 2006 at 8:33 pmWhat happened to your h?
Comment by unbelievable
I ave no idea wHat you're talking about.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:34 pmNonsense. The Left invented political correctness, hate crimes and homophobia. ‘Nough said?
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 8:25 pm
"Nough said? Since when has that ever stopped you?
But, like Ryan said, your side created the hate crimes. I mean, what part of peace, love and understanding is hateful?
And how can you call us homophobic after calling us homo-sympathizers? Pick one and stick with it. And since most of us have friends who are gay, while you have zero, I'm gonna guess you should go with calling us NOT homophobic. But, I know how much lunacy is a part of your charm, so well... knock yourself out with the contradictions.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:34 pmAnd how can you call us homophobic after calling us homo-sympathizers?
Comment by unbelievable
Sorry, I should have made it clear that the word itslef is your invention. There is no such thing as homophobia just as there is no such thing as a gay homosexual.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:36 pmThey’re always whining about someone who hates them, someone who disagrees with them, someone who’s ‘taxing’ them, someone who’s correcting them. But the recent Berkeley study showed that whiney children grow up to be CONservatives - so it all makes sense.
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 1, 2006 @ 8:30 pm
Living in a red state, I couldn't agree more. The more conservative the parents, the bigger the whiners the kids.
And have you noticed how they criticize everyone else for not living up to their ideals, when neither are they. The controversial student-teacher sex scandal in my town was at the Christian Academy. Where they have about 120 students versus about 8,000 in the public system.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:40 pmI ave no idea wHat you’re talking about.
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
As usual... ;)
Could you fix it? It looks retarded.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:42 pmToday is April Fools Day and the Bush lovers are making fools of themselves on TP by posting their silly crap supporting Dubya the biggest fool of all time! The Bushites attack anybody who does not conform to their way of fascist thinking, so they denigrate Carrol for not calling her captives towelheads and such! The Bush butt kissers are also demanding that Rep. Cynthia McKinny of Georgia be prosecuted for slapping a DC security guard who grabbed her arm and accosted her! They want her nailed to the wall to avenge the take down of criminal Tom DeLay!
April 1st, 2006 at 8:44 pmI-RIGHT-I,
George W. Bush says Muslims are our friends.
Do you agree with George Bush W. that Muslims are our friends?
Or do you not agree with George W. Bush that Muslims are our friends?
Easy question, as usual. I don't expect an answer as you wouldn't be supporting der furher.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:45 pmMizzWrong,
Crays are used for back end computation and have allocated CPU time brackets - they’re not for ‘web surfing’. That claim shows exactly how retarded you are.
Comment by Ryan Neat
The Cray's also run a super secret version of Mozilla that allows me to communicate with the Walking Dead, like you.
God bless Cray and God Bless my neighbor Tom Delay for allowing us to tap into his OC24 FO.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:45 pm[...] Jill Carroll, a Christian Science Monitor reporter, was recently released (NYT, BBC) by her captors in Iraq. Immediately after her release, she was interviewed in the offices of the Iraqi Islamic Party, where she had been dropped off. There’s been a lot of buzz surrounding her statements that she was treated well by her captives in an interview and her criticism of the US in a video of her before she was released (Imus, Imus, ThinkProgress). Many super conservatives we very critical of her statements, claiming she (and the liberal blogs that defended her) were either crazy or terrorist supporters. [...]
April 1st, 2006 at 8:47 pmSorry, I should have made it clear that the word itslef is your invention. There is no such thing as homophobia just as there is no such thing as a gay homosexual.
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 8:36 pm
Oh, that you'll apologize for, but not for calling all liberal women whores? Such priorities. Jesus must be proud.
Sure there's homophobia. People can, and seem to be are, afraid of damn near anything and everything. Spiders, cats, being outside, needles, birds, buttons, elevators... and so on.
You gonna harrass anyone else tonight? You're making me think you've missed me or something, and well, that would not make Jesus proud...
April 1st, 2006 at 8:48 pm#140 - Jack....well said.... i just made a few little corrections for you - - I know the font is soooo tiny....
"The left wants to control how you feel, think, talk, and do, from their very comfortable positions. They know how to tell everyone else how to live their lives, but they don’t give a hand to help actually make things better. They want to make peoples lives better by spending other people's money - because they are often very "cheap".
Hope that helps!!
Good night!!
April 1st, 2006 at 8:51 pmHe probably got banned again, and had to change his signature to post. MizzWrong is pretty vile and violates the terms of usage almost daily.
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 1, 2006 @ 8:44 pm
I thought IP addresses got banned? Not that it stops wallace - I mean, Pro-Democracy this week.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:52 pmI-RIGHT-I,
George W. Bush says Muslims are our friends.
Do you agree with George Bush W. that Muslims are our friends?
Or do you not agree with George W. Bush that Muslims are our friends?
Easy question, as usual. I don’t expect an answer as you wouldn’t be supporting der furher.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Spudge...how many times do I have to explain this? George knows damn well Muslims are not our friends. Muslims have no friends and no one, no even Muslims can be their friend. He's telling another one of his patented stratijik lies. You know, like the Saddam/WMD thing. Don't worry about it. We have everything under control.
Don't forget Spudge, not everyone deserves the truth. Mostly losers like you that wouldn't recognize it if is stepped on their foot....I can't believe you losers bought that WMD thing. Only the f'ing Arabs and Euroweasels were supposed to buy that.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:54 pmGood night!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — April 1, 2006 @ 8:51 pm
Good night? It's what - 6:00 ish in San Diego? Ryan's right - you're 10.
April 1st, 2006 at 8:58 pmGood night? It’s what - 6:00 ish in San Diego? Ryan’s right - you’re 10.
Comment by unbelievable
Moi?
April 1st, 2006 at 9:01 pmSo, then you will, even though Bush won't admit that we are at war with Muslims, not "terrorists?"
I didn't buy it for one minute. I don't think anybody else here bought it either. The peolpe who bought it are Bush's base. You know, the Bible thumpers in places like Kansas.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:01 pmMoi?
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 9:01 pm
No, it's not always about you. Read all of post #164, not just the good parts (i.e. where I'm speaking :)
I'm pretty certain you're at least in your fourties. Physically at any rate...
April 1st, 2006 at 9:05 pmEuroweasels lol I-R-I is funny in his lunacy! The Europeans never fell for the WMD lies for Iraq, but like Spudge said the low brow Bush lovers in Kansas and Idaho fell for the lies completely! They are gullible fools just like Bush the moron on prozac!
April 1st, 2006 at 9:09 pmYou know, the Bible thumpers in places like Kansas.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Nonsense. The Bible thumpers as you call them have known for two hundred years that any Christian nation can not trust Muslims. We didn't give a damn what the excuse was to get in there and disrupt their little nuclear party. We just wanted them to be clear that all Christians are not like the pussies in Europe that they've been intimidating for decades. Of course Europe is no longer Christian but the Muslims don't really know that. They know for sure that we are though. USA! USA! Because we kicked their ass and continue to kick their ass and will continue to kick their ass. It's a wonder they have any ass left at all. USA! USA!
April 1st, 2006 at 9:09 pmI didn’t buy it for one minute. I don’t think anybody else here bought it either. The peolpe who bought it are Bush’s base. You know, the Bible thumpers in places like Kansas.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — April 1, 2006 @ 9:01 pm
And Georgia. At least half of my town still drives around with W stickers.
I went to downtown Atlanta this week to get away from it. Was like getting out of jail.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:10 pmDid you notice MizzWrong posted a response to you as mighty aphrodite? And the “left ear†troll did the same thing yesterday. The first time mighty moron appeared on the site was when MizzWrong and I were in a long fight. Something tells me it’s his ‘drag’ personna, and how he projects his gay personna without feeling guilty about it. How pathetic is that?
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 1, 2006 @ 9:05 pm
Very suspicious... That would have to be a serious personality disorder to be two very distinct personalities like that, but hey, weirder stuff has happened... And they do agree on everything.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:14 pmThe Europeans never fell for the WMD lies for Iraq, but like Spudge said the low brow Bush lovers in Kansas and Idaho fell for the lies completely! They are gullible fools just like Bush the moron on prozac!
Comment by Jay Randal
Nonsense...just like the USA they KNEW Saddam had WMD's because just like the USA they had the f'ing receipts for them! The point is that it didn't matter. We were going in there anyway. And we had an ace in the hole too. We knew that the Euroweasels and the Russians and the Red Chinese were selling to Saddam in violation of the UN sanctions so it didn't really matter what the UN said or tried to do anyway. They did what they HAD to do...sell weapons and favors for oil...and we did what we HAD to do...KICK SADDAM'S ASS. It worked out better for us. Now the Euroweasels and Russians and Red Chinese are bitching because they aren't getting their fair share of the spoils (business). It's all about the money with them. It's about survival for us. That's why we're better than them and that's why we win. USA! USA! USA!
April 1st, 2006 at 9:17 pmI wouldn’t be surprised if several of the other common trolls like Gary Ruppert and Giacomo (who I also tripped up on his ‘bio’) are part of the same set of personalities. It just explains a lot.
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 1, 2006 @ 9:18 pm
What was Giacomo's slip-up? Did you see that he posted today - and agreed with you??? I thought he was gone.
And why they're always accusing us of being multiple people?
April 1st, 2006 at 9:22 pmMadison and the signers of the treaty of Tripoli might disagree. As would the countless treaties, trade agreements and deals cut with muslim countries for oil, trade and resources that have fattened many of a texas republipig.
You’re such an ignorant cracker - what are you a saltine?
Comment by Ryan Neat
Jefferson had to kick their ass for them sinc e the Eurolosers chose even back then to pay them off. Today, nobody trusts a Muslim. They are liars and thieves and have always been liars and thieves. It's one of the tenets of Islam to lie and steal and kill non believers. Don't worry sweetcheeks...George and the US Marines will protect your worthless diseased ass.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:24 pmIt’s one of the tenets of Islam to lie and steal and kill non believers. Don’t worry sweetcheeks…George and the US Marines will protect your worthless diseased ass.
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 9:24 pm
Considering it is one Judeo-Christo-Islamo burning bush of blood letting, misogyny, and violence, I am frequently amazed that you are willing, no eager to cut off the branches of your own tree of religion to spite yourself.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:29 pmMost of the oil deals in the previous regime were held by French and Russian interests - and Texas wasn’t getting ENOUGH of a cut through the Oil for Food Scam - although apparently they were getting LOTS! So they took matters into their own hands and took all of the cookies.
Hypocrisy is the tool of the evil that is CONservatism.
Comment by Ryan Neat
Liar. Texas didn't get squat from the Oil for Food scam. I think there was ONE Ameican that did business and got caught compared to the dozens of high ranking GOVERMENT OFFICIALS IN THE AXIS OF WEASELS AND THE COMMUNISTS that have been busted. The fact is, your people in the Filthy Global Left got rich from the money that was supposed to help poor starving kiddies in Iraq. It's all you and yours baby. May you all rot in hell.....and with that goodnight. I've got to go see a gal about breakfast in the morning.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:30 pm#176 Nonsense…just like the USA they KNEW Saddam had WMD’s because just like the USA they had the f’ing receipts for them! The point is that it didn’t matter. We were going in there anyway. And we had an ace in the hole too. We knew that the Euroweasels and the Russians and the Red Chinese were selling to Saddam in violation of the UN sanctions so it didn’t really matter what the UN said or tried to do anyway. They did what they HAD to do…sell weapons and favors for oil…and we did what we HAD to do…KICK SADDAM’S ASS. It worked out better for us. Now the Euroweasels and Russians and Red Chinese are bitching because they aren’t getting their fair share of the spoils (business). It’s all about the money with them. It’s about survival for us. That’s why we’re better than them and that’s why we win. USA! USA! USA! - I-MORON-I
In our coutry, we had demonstrations of milions of people in our cities prior to the war, because we knew there were no WMD and the UN inspectors were in the country. Think of it: when you have simultaneous demonstrations of 2 milion people in a city of 6 milions and of 1 milion people in a city of 2 milions, that means something. There were rightwingers, independents and leftwingers. No one swallowed the lies of Bush then, much less now.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:32 pmMay you all rot in hell…..and with that goodnight. I’ve got to go see a gal about breakfast in the morning.
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 9:30 pm
Tell him we said hi.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:35 pmGiacomo posted different numbers of ‘children’ at different times - he changed his story on them. And yes I noticed, but once again he told the ‘half truth’ by trying to blame it on the pension costs - which weren’t really the problem. Giacomo is like the guy who works at the coffee shop that always gets something wrong with your order, and asks you if it’s OK anyway because he got part of it right. That sort of passive aggressive personality is toxic, and just flat out annoying.
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 1, 2006 @ 9:26 pm
Yeah, in an abortion discuss he said that his children were adopted, but then later talked about his children being blood related. And then he always accused me of making stuff up to fit the argument, when I'm just not a good liar, so I don't.
I agree with the passive aggressive references to him. And it did irritate me as well.
I'll throw IRI a bone - at least he's honest about being a bigot. Whatever that's good for :)
April 1st, 2006 at 9:36 pm#186 Is his mommy, bringing him some milk and scrambled eggs to the basement where he is chained.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:38 pmI-RIGHT-I,
Thanks for clearing that up. You have proved 100% of my theroies to be 100% correct.
I am off to have some fun now.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:38 pmMay you all rot in hell…..and with that goodnight. I’ve got to go see a gal about breakfast in the morning.
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 9:30 pm
Sounds like someone got pissy about being caught unsing multiple identitites???
Ah, he's just going to get a new blow up doll. The last one got pregnant and he dropped her off on the highway.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:41 pmWhere'd everybody go all of a sudden? Just leave because IRI is going to spend the night at his grandma's house?
Well, okay. So much for this party...
April 1st, 2006 at 9:57 pm#79- Ms.Unbelievable, I am probably too late to help you with this, but, here is what I do. Go to the top of your screen, click on "view", scroll down to "text size", it will give you a few options. Mine is set on "larger", that works well for me. Hope that helps!
April 1st, 2006 at 9:59 pmi don't know if it's already been remarked on in this thread, BUT
Jill Carroll has retracted her "pro-terrorist" remarks. Salon has the story.
Imus, Powerline, Jonah Goldberg, etc. owe her an apology. I'm not holding my breath.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:10 pmeverything she said on the tape is actually TRUE...
Voice: What will you tell the American people?
Carroll: Well, first of all I want them to be able to understand, I want them to understand the Mujahedeen, truly. There are a lot of lies to come out of the American government, calling the Mujahedeen terrorists and other things and I think it’s important that American people hear from me the Mujahedeen are only trying to defend their country. This is only a jihad to stop an illegal and dangerous and deadly occupation so I think it’s important that people see the Mujahedeen are people that we’ve seen in our entire history resisting an occupation trying to fight a foreign force in their land, it’s their country and they have a right to fight for their own freedom so I want people to understand that it’s not people that like to kill, not people that like violence but people who love their country, people who want to see their country free from an occupation and also I want them to understand that the situation in Iraq in general, how difficult it is here, people don’t have electricity, people don’t have water, children don’t have safe streets to walk in, women and children are always in danger. People are killed left and right on the streets without any reason. People die everyday from the bombings and shootings of the army and all these things. So I think people need to understand in America how difficult life is here for the normal, average Iraqis. That everyday is a matter of survival, life and death for most Iraqis and thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of Iraqis have lost their lives here because of the occupation. I think Americans need to think about that and day to day how difficult life is here, how terrifying it is for most people to live here everyday because of the occupation.
Voice: Do you have a message for Mr. Bush?
Carroll: Yeah, he needs to stop this war. He knows this war is wrong. He knows that it was illegal from the very beginning. He knows that it was built on a mountain of lies and I think he needs to finally admit that to the American people and make the troops go home and he doesn’t care about his own people.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:21 pm#189 - Evil Spaniard,
April 1st, 2006 at 10:27 pmPal, do you ever sleep? Your last post in this thread was at about 2:30 AM Lisbon time (5 hour time differential from EST as used in this blog's clock). Franco made it because the US did not directly attack another country unless declared an enemy by that country until w's unjustified assault of Iraq. The Bay of Pigs may be considered as an exception, but US forces were withheld from that fiasco - designed by the Eisenhower administration. You can cite the adventures in Somalia, Lebanon, Grenada, Haiti and Iraq 1 as exceptions to this but all were sanctioned by the UN.
Franco was a cagey character, he took advantage of Hitler, but when payback time came, he said "up yours". If he had joined forces mit der Fuehrer, Spanish history would have taken a different turn around 1945.
I-R-I is off to see Mighty Aphrodite his other self > he dates himself you see > lol. Split personalities can date themselves > they just switch back and forth in conversation!
As for I-R-I thinking the USA is winning in Iraq is hilarious > the GOP must have increased the thorizine medication for him > lol. If the chaos in Iraq signifies winning, then I would hate to see what Bush's idea of losing is like?
April 1st, 2006 at 10:27 pm#198 Sometimes :D
Well, really, I sleep enough (6-8 hours/day), but right now I'm working in a private project in the computer, so I prefer night hours in the weekend to do it, if I'm no partying with friends. It's more silent and peaceful. And yes, we're GMT+1 here, so a couple hours prior to your East Coast time.
And, I guess you're accurate in general, but think of this: your country normally, and sadly, uses the UN as a tool, and generally, you have a sanction by the UN in your interventions, whenever your country need it. And, if you don't, the rest of the world doesn't want to be in the opposite side of your country,and let your contry go along. But hey, even so, Bush did it. He went without a sanction of the UN. Really, he's a moron, or has very bad faith. Maybe both.
Franco was one of a couple of insurrect generals, but if he had something in his favor was a remarkable capacity of manouvering between dangers, and so, he ended commanding the insurrect forces and the country, and evaded being in the Hitler's bunch when things where gone down the toilet for the Axis.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:50 pmEvil Spaniard,
April 1st, 2006 at 11:19 pmEST is GMT -5. If you are at GMT +1, we are talking about a six hour difference. I checked Madrid on the Windows Time/Date setup the time offset was GMT +1.
#201 Yes, that's it. So, I normally, in working days, I see the first comments of the day coming from your country around my 14:00 (02:00 pm) time, EST 8:00 am.
And well, now is 06:30 am for me, so I guess I'll catch some sleep now.
Glad to talk to you.
April 1st, 2006 at 11:31 pmjames risser,
The fact that what Jill Caroll said on that tape was coherced has already been covered in post number 103-105.
Please catch up.
April 1st, 2006 at 11:46 pmSpecifically:
April 1st, 2006 at 11:47 pm
I don't think anyone should have honestly believed that a video with three men in the background (unseen) with guns over their hostage should ever have been taken for what it was.
Jill would have died if she hadn't said what they wanted. It's a face saving move for the terrorists who were under some pressure to let her go.
All the hostages denounce american involvement - including the security contractors, most of who are ex soldiers - because THEY WANT TO LIVE.
Honestly, after 82 days of having sunni extremists who have a track record of beheading their hostages most people would have agreed to make such a mild video. A good proportion of US Soldiers would as well - especially since we've learned that the majority don't believe in Iraq.
Denouncing someone or something when you have a gun to your head or you face death if yo don't cooperate should not be taken at face value.
Judd,
Did you see CNN's changing Jill story? First it was she probably has Stockholm Syndrome. Then it went to Jill says she was forced to (after the intial dad says she was forced to) and then they followed her comments up by bringing in their Stockholm syndrome guy again.
The rights 'good news' is when you report on a school that has been built. Of course, when that school is blown up in a few weeks - don't report on that. Don't report on the corruption involved in the contracts (they are local contractors who skim alot off).
Same thing with water projects. We are flushing money down a giant hole because if you do something 'good' it gets countered by alot more 'bads'.
April 1st, 2006 at 11:55 pmEvil Spaniard,
April 1st, 2006 at 11:57 pmI spent a few years in Germany and they seemed to roll up the streets at about 6 PM and forget about Saturday and Sunday unless it was the first Saturday of the month. I don't know if that has changed since I left in 1987. I only spent 3 days in Spain and that was in a controlled environment. Actually, it seemed worse then the Soviet Union. In Moscow, we could walk the streets at night - in Madrid and Avilla, a guide was required.
I guess the right wanted some 'I WANT THEM ALL DEAD' initial response from Jill.
Luckily we seem to be seeing that Jill is a real reporter and someone who can stay reasonably 'cool'. It probably helped her out through her ordeal.
The complaining is because Jill didn't say that they are 'Islomofascists/terrorists who should be killed/executed/butchered for executing my friend'. Instead she said they killed her friend and they are 'at best' criminals. That implies terrorists. So I think the right is going to complain after the fact about anything that doesn't involve Jesus (Afghanistan - where converting gets you death), a rant about 'death to the islamofascists', or something to that effect.
April 1st, 2006 at 11:59 pmMirengoff is a used piece of toilet paper. 'Nuff said.
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:03 am205, and other similar statements - "Denouncing someone or something when you have a gun to your head or you face death if yo don’t cooperate should not be taken at face value."
- kinda like torture, huh...
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:12 amKnow MA said she was off for the evening but want to leave her a note for Sunday, after she has her/his pablum for breakfast. In a early post you made quotes that were not mine, but said they were. They could of been, but were not. Simalar only and my signature of Blessings at the end. I know they wern't mine because they were not anti Bush enough, and not worded as I would do....Hope you all have a good Sunday....
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:13 am"Is there anybody out there?"
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:29 amjust me, i guess...but not for long...midnight approaches!
just remembered this from thurs' podheritz thread:
i can’t believe what i’m hearing about this…
welcome home jill?
Comment by katy —
... There was no way in hell the terrorists were going to chop her head off and piss of the American Left Wing Fuckwits…you know, your kind of people...
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — March 30, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
so, i guess you admit we're good for something! thanks iris!
that's all (for me), folks! g'night
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:48 amSpudge:
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:51 am"Darkness is spreading like a spot on the Sun
The dead are the living in the age of the gun
While everyone clamours for the justice they seek
The Word is corrupted and the strong take the weak." The other KANSAS
"Nonsense…just like the USA they KNEW Saddam had WMD’s because just like the USA they had the f’ing receipts for them! The point is that it didn’t matter. We were going in there anyway. And we had an ace in the hole too. We knew that the Euroweasels and the Russians and the Red Chinese were selling to Saddam in violation of the UN sanctions so it didn’t really matter what the UN said or tried to do anyway. They did what they HAD to do…sell weapons and favors for oil…and we did what we HAD to do…KICK SADDAM’S ASS. It worked out better for us. Now the Euroweasels and Russians and Red Chinese are bitching because they aren’t getting their fair share of the spoils (business). It’s all about the money with them. It’s about survival for us. That’s why we’re better than them and that’s why we win. USA! USA! USA!
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 9:17 pm "
Hard to believe, but this might be the most ignorant and delusional thing you have posted here. Or, maybe not.
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:57 amYeah! I like those odds.
April 2nd, 2006 at 12:58 amThis moron still has a G.I. Joe doll.
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:00 amHeh.
After Ms. Carroll's public recantation today, I bet Judd wishes he hadn't represented her initial statements as accurate concerning the conditions of her captivity.
Sorry dude. You were flat wrong.
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:07 amWwere is the rest of this thread?
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:21 amKeyboard commando diagnosis of complicated situation:
"Heh."
[. . . ]
Comment by mauk2 — April 2, 2006 @ 1:07 am
And your experience at being held by terrorists tells you that . . .
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:14 amtesting123
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:31 amBut also... just because Carroll’s initial comments DO fit in with Think Progress' preferred narrative DOSEN'T mean she is right.
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:17 am"It’s quite possible that, in time, Carroll will provide more details about her treatment in captivity."
Yes, and now that information is there on CNN. Also, #144 has it.
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:25 amA few things
Pro
Nope, that is the single most direct way to read that statement. Of course you could state how you read it, but something tells me that your basic partisan ethic is such that you are making lame duck accusations. Frankly, accusing me of illiteracy while all of my posts are typed, and dishonesty when I was posting how I read the statement, kind of shows your defenses are weak. Face it, deep down you feel that the rightwing blogs were contemptable in their statements.
Judd:
Seriously, post an update saying that she retracted her statements. A lot of people won't read through all the comments but a update or another article is called for right now. People shouldn't be taking her first statement as true of her views if it isn't.
That said, the forced statement itself is interesting in that it shows perhaps something of what the insurgents want. It might not be an accurate statement of her views, but that those were the issues the insurgents were thinking of, is in itself maybe a sign that peace can be achievable.
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:48 am#222- What on Earth are you talking about?!? "DOSEN"T mean she is right." Right about WHAT, exactly? Please do elaborate, I am very curious as to your meaning here.
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:58 am#107 needs to be Banned his/her language is an affront to all who post here and to T.P.
Jill Carroll is a Hero as to how she handle herself and now can give an accurate view on who these types of people are that are taking people hostage. I see them as Freedom Fighters much like in Central America trying to maintain control of their country and remove the enemy . We are the enemy everyone ,we invaded this country for the Natural Resources and yes we need to leave that country and they will sort out their problems and build their own form of Demoracy even if its Sharia Law but bushco will never go along with that as it has control of the oil and yes Mission was Accp. as EXXON.CHEVRON,BP/MOBIL,Haliburton has control of that countries vast wealth.
I do not support or will I ever support an invasion of a Country for that Country's wealth its an UNJust War! That has killed as many Americans as 9-11 and a greater number of Arabs .
April 2nd, 2006 at 6:52 am#109. You are delusional. Quit drinking the kool-aid.
April 2nd, 2006 at 6:53 amThe evidence is irrefutable, IRI really IS a full-time NUT;WHACKO;CERTIFIED INSANE. Where are those nice young men in their clean white coats with a strait-jacket to take him to the looney bin? A reservation of one for a padded cell, please!
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:04 amI can't speak entirely for ThinkProgress (being that I don't represent the organization itself), but I think none of the editors of ThinkProgress align themselves with the terrorists - instead, they align themselves with Jill Carrol. Jill Carrol has probably been through some not-so-great stuff, but she didn't get beheaded like so many others have. If I were Jill Carrol, I'd be quite satisfied with the outcome as well.
What I think is so amusing about this fiasco is that some of these rightwingers speak for other people who don't agree with them - they don't even straw man anymore, they criticize people for not doing what they say - and then they praise the Bush administration for protecting freedom of thought and speech.
The thought police are coming - and they have rightwing pundits with them.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:33 amIt is rare that someone gets caught with their pants down around the ankles so firmly as Mirengoff at Powerline has (though it is not so rare for someone to backpedal and try to resell their thoughts, as he now is doing). Judd's comment here on Think Progress was already in bold type, and Mirengoff emphasized it even more when he emphasized what Judd said again:
It is totally inappropriate to assume that [Carroll's] description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
Yeah, it was motivated by threats to her life. I doubt there will be apologies, but it will be fun to watch all the people squirm now.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:55 amIt is rare that someone gets caught with their pants down around the ankles so firmly as Mirengoff at Powerline has (though it is not so rare for someone to backpedal and try to resell their thoughts, as he now is doing). Judd's comment here on Think Progress was already in bold type, and Mirengoff emphasized it even more when he emphasized what Judd said again:
It is totally inappropriate to assume that [Carroll's] description of how she was treated is motivated by anything other than a desire to tell the truth.
Yeah, it was motivated by threats to her life. I doubt there will be apologies, but it will be fun to watch all the people squirm now.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:55 amMorons of the right unite!
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:57 amApril 2nd, 2006 at 9:04 am
From the Christian Science Monitor:
"There are seeming limits, even for terrorists. Unless some new revelation emerges about a behind-the-scenes ransom or some other kind of deal, it appears as if this hostage seizure was a big, fat miscalculation on the part of the terrorists. Why? Because Carroll was apparently a well-connected and beloved reporter who had learned the language and culture. She wasn't just plopping in to write a few stories. She had a built in network of people in many different political camps and had impressed them with her fairness."
Carrol learned the language and impressed iraqis with her fairness.
THAT'S why the right-wing hates her.
Remember Dick Armey, who boasted that he had never left the United States? That's the kind of people the neocons are. Xenophobic, insular, petty, vindictive.
To them having empathy for someone else is cause for concern, not a mark of character.
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:11 am[...] As I explained before Carroll’s statement was released, future comments by Carroll “may not be completely consistent with what she said moments after being released†but “Carroll is the only one who know the facts.†(Goldberg falsely claims that ThinkProgress and others “took her initial statements at face value.â€) The point was that, until the full story is revealed by Carroll, it is inappropriate for pundits like Goldberg and Podhoretz to attack her personally. [...]
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:13 amZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz are you a NSA plant by chance?
I wouldn't call it fascism exactly, but a political system nominally controlled by an irresponsible, dumbed down electorate who are manipulated by dishonest, cynical, controlled mass media that dispense the propaganda of a corrupt political establishment can hardly be described as democracy either: Edward Zehr Via ICH
Zzzzz do you agree that this fits the bush Empireship to "T"
As for Iraq get the Hell Out and Destroy the So Called Bases that take up to 19 miles of Fixed Houseing For US Militaries.
As for Jill Carroll that was good and postive News From Iraq (Some ) wanted her beheaded (bush's Strawman hee hee)
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:20 amCondi and Straw war criminals.
April 2nd, 2006 at 9:37 amPowerline can suck my ass! How's that for "civil discourse"?
April 2nd, 2006 at 10:22 amThe wingnuts have nothing else to focus on. Their boy Bush has been an utter disaster for the country and they know it. Instead of making a stink over something important(like how badly and quickly we are losing Iraq), they shift the focus to Carroll's story. She's an easy target at the moment and that's something those animals can't resist. Now that Carroll has had a chance to speak without guns to her head, the wingnuts have been shown to be insensitive hacks with half a brain.
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:36 pmHawkeye, and other GWB haters, Let's just imagine the US after 9/11 with the Naomi Wolf inspired manly, decisive, roaring President Al Gore... What a weak, insipid thought...
April 2nd, 2006 at 3:06 pmit's very easy to imagine that there would not have been a "9/11"
April 2nd, 2006 at 4:20 pmwith a President Gore who would have followed up on all of the
information that his predesessor warned about and which
was disregarded and ignored by the thieves in charge now...
i wonder what the GWB lovers have gained, really...
Hey IRI since getting dangerous people out of power all over the world is just the united states
April 2nd, 2006 at 5:21 pmjob now, how exactly do we come up with enough troops to invade all the places with dictators?
(except the one's we installed of course) Are you actually that stoopid? Do you realize how thin
our military is streched now? Well I hope you and the rest of the cousin-screwing, nascar watching, fox news controlled, teeth missing, fashists are having some kind of grass roots recruitment so we actually have some troops to lie to get them to go help overthrow all these
dangerous goverments that we are now to police.
Let us know how well the new team america world police works out ok!
"We don't torture, we freedom tickle!"
Hey IRI since getting dangerous people out of power all over the world is just the united states
job now, how exactly do we come up with enough troops to invade all the places with dictators?
(except the one’s we installed of course) Are you actually that stoopid? Do you realize Comment by guedo421
Hey Guido! It's a lousy job but somebody has to do it. The fact is Europe bitches about unilateralism, Africa complains that we spend too much money on other projects and not enough on them, China and Russia don't say shit but fuck us every chance they get and you wonder why we are the savior of the world? It's our job baby, be proud of it because God saw fit to give us the brains, strength and national character to pull it off. So..all the advice I can give a guy like you is....be like Dad, not like Sis, lift the lid before you piss. And next time you little fuckweasel, wash your damn hands!
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:07 pmKATY TRIED
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:12 am"Hawkeye, and other GWB haters, Let’s just imagine the US after 9/11 with the Naomi Wolf inspired manly, decisive, roaring President Al Gore… What a weak, insipid thought… Comment by mighty aphrodite "
Insipid certainly describes you. There are so many things wrong with this statement, lets disect your continuous stream of 'lunacy' all in a row.
1) GWB Haters implies that people hate the main, and not his string of failures - although it's easy to see how a retard like yourself is incapable of discerning such a concrete concept.
2) You seem to imagine 9/11 with Al Gore, but never entertain the thought that Gore would like have followed Clinton's strategy of actually reading memos like "Bin Laden intends to run planes into our buildings"
3) You seem delusionally convinced that our Chear Leader in chief is 'manly', just because he can wear a flight suit. Stupidity driven stubbornness isn't 'manly', although many of the 'crackers' who delusionally think themselves to be men (or hide from it like yourself) often believe this to be so. A man uses his brain to inform his decisions - not just to defend their failures as you do.
4) You imply Gore wasn't manly or decisive, yet he stands today and courageously fights for causes he believes despite the constant attacks and ridicules of a relentless press and reichwing spin machine.
The 'Gore Haters' like yourself just can't be big enough pansies in your 'bashing' while claiming to be 'victims' of bashing. There's no more professional victim than a reichwing CONservative like you. After all, isn't 'you hater' the call of a professional victim? No wonder you have such a fixation on the subject - it's called the rejected self. Get some therapy you whacko!
Bush is the worst president in almost least a century (probably since Hoover), and while haters of america like yourself are willing to flush the country in defense of your delusion - those of us with presence of mind just realize that you're mentally insane. MORON.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:03 amRyan # 243-Agree with post,but Bush is and will be seen as worst pres.ever.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:40 amGuru
No, Bush won't be remembered as the worst. The two main parties in your country have learned a deadly lesson, they have learned that it is more important to have a candidate who can win an election, then it is to have a candidate who can run a country.
You need someone who can run your country, instead you will get someone who can run a slick add campaign.
April 3rd, 2006 at 5:12 am#204 Well, we are a lot different of germans, at least in timings. Usually, we enter later and exit later from work and, generally, we have a night life even between week. Many times, we go to supper out, or attend bars to have a beer and chat with our friends and/or see soccer games, for around one or two hours, before sleep time. Monday to Wednesday are usually tranquiler, but begining in thursday night, we start to get out, usually to suppers. Friday and Saturday are the days of partys, discos, concerts, going to country, etc., and Sunday is a relax day, maybe some dinner with the famiily and cinema, but we return soon home.
April 3rd, 2006 at 6:00 amYou know, the Bible thumpers in places like Kansas.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Nonsense. The Bible thumpers as you call them have known for two hundred years that any Christian nation can not trust Muslims. We didn’t give a damn what the excuse was to get in there and disrupt their little nuclear party. We just wanted them to be clear that all Christians are not like the pussies in Europe that they’ve been intimidating for decades. Of course Europe is no longer Christian but the Muslims don’t really know that. They know for sure that we are though. USA! USA! Because we kicked their ass and continue to kick their ass and will continue to kick their ass. It’s a wonder they have any ass left at all. USA! USA!
Comment by I-RIGhT-I — April 1, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
200 years? This is why these REICHWING lap dogs like I-REICH-I are so confused. Apparently I-REICH-I didn't learn about the Holy Crusades before he dropped out in the 5th grade. Btw, have you ever been to Europe I-REICH-I? Still watching Fox News from your mom's basement eh? It all makes sense now...
April 3rd, 2006 at 6:17 amObviously stupid, to say the least.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:26 pmOoh! "mighty-big-dimpled-ass-you-have-there-dite" has gotten in there on this one, too. maybe righteyes will help her through the pain with the manliest 2 minute missionary fuck she's ever had. whhat pains me, and what compels me to take notice of what they post, is the wanton ignorance factor they exhibit. as though history started in 1980 and ended somewhere around 87, with nothing of consequence before or after, least of all in any other part of the world than our own. it is not legitimate or acceptable to throw their assertions around in light of their profound ignorance of human history, and their profound lack of perspective on things not having to do with Buicks and shopping malls. for righteyes to spout some jingoistic bs about our greatness, or ass-rodite to posit hypotheticals featuring fictional renditions of real people....the question-begging and red-herrings and non-sequiturs just set my head to spinning. what's worse, lots and lots of people are as dumb as they are, with no desire to change. they have faith in dark things, mean ideas, and hateful people - what the hell kind of faith is that!?!? they should get a chance to play in a real dog-eat-dog world, and get to know first hand how it feels to get a pound of flesh bit off of ya. they've obviously lived very sheltered, managed, and isolated lives, to be able to talk about anything at all the way they talk their politics. i'm just grateful their not realtives or in-laws of mine - thanksgivings would be pretty fucking bloody.
April 13th, 2006 at 2:30 pmPee Public Pee Public Pissing
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 17th, 2008 at 10:59 pm