No good military solution in Iran,
By on Apr 3rd, 2006 at 11:49 am
No good military solution in Iran,
says former U.S. counterterror chief Richard Clarke on ABC’s Good Morning America: “We’ve thought about military options against Iran off and on for the last 20 years and they’re just not good because you don’t know what the end game is. You know what the first move is but not the last move.”
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Why does Richard Clarke hate 'merica? Maybe he should go back to hosting "American Bandstand".
April 3rd, 2006 at 11:53 amIn his book, “Against All Enemies,†Richard Clarke described how the U.S. under Bill Clinton waged a successful covert campaign against Iran intelligence and terrorist groups in the wake of the Khobar Towers attack.
Here's more background on past American experience with Iranian intelligence and its Hezbollah allies.
April 3rd, 2006 at 11:53 amYou know the first move but not the endgame? That sounds like Iraq!
April 3rd, 2006 at 11:58 amAh, the Clinton years. When the Administration actually thought through plans, weighed consequences and potential outcomes, rather than BushCo just admiring their shiny guns and airplanes. Shock and awe!
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:00 pmAs my dear old dad, former Marine, former Naval Officer, former attorney, former Judge, current retiree, and wannabe brain surgeon used to say, "This shit scares me, and I'm fearless."
If Incurious George manages to get us into Iran, I believe it will be the end of us.
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:01 pmon cspan2 the Iranian UN Ambassador, from last week.
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:09 pmWith so much money spent on permanent bases in Iraq . Money disclosed as supporting our troops and reconstruction of that country.We are not leaving soon . Remember King georges said : It's up to future presidents to decide when to leave.
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:23 pmI think when the Iraqis get tired of fighting one another. They'll turn on those bases.
So will Iran . WWIII is here .
Shouldn't nuclear disarmament, containment or whatever you want to call it be a world issue? Shouldn't this be something the UN is watching, and managing?
Rather than us tearing down the UN, perhaps we should work on fixing it? We've created an environment for war, and we should be creating an environment for peace. General Zinni was right on Sunday morning. Although how come we are only hearing these guys now? Where are all those other Generals that gave us a play-by-play on shock and awe on the various news shows?
It seems Warren Buffett and Ted Turner have been thinking about this for sometime with the Nuclear Threat Initiative, http://www.nti.org/.
I sure hope this time the administration is open-minded and listening to other voices, and options.
Unfortunately this administration is now like the boy that cryed wolf, isn't it? They have a huge credibility gap. Focusing just on Iraq, we know they manipulated the intelligence for Iraq. And we know they were preparing for war as they were telling us otherwise. We know they leaked a CIA agent to retaliate against someone that tried to speak the truth. We know they have talkingpoints that they distribute to Rush and Fox. We know they have spent billions on propaganda, when maybe just the truth would have worked. We know they didn't have a plan for the peace. We know they didn't listen to the General's that wanted more troops. Cheney and his ridiculous "in their last throes"; Bush's "Mission Accomplished", "Bring'em on"; Rumsfeld's "It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.", etc., etc. How arrogant are we, that we wouldn't even contemplate that people might fight back? I mean, it sounds like the Iranian leadership is as crazy as ours. And God help us.
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:23 pmWith so much money spent on permanent bases in Iraq . Money disclosed as supporting our troops and reconstruction of that country.We are not leaving soon . Remember King georges said : It’s up to future presidents to decide when to leave.
I think when the Iraqis get tired of fighting one another. They’ll turn on those bases.
So will Iran . WWIII is here .
Comment by leoger
If it's not bad enough, I don't think we will give up those bases even if the dems take control. I'm very afraid for my children.
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:36 pmIt didn't stop them from going after Iraq. Common sense will not be the factor that prevents a nuking of Iran.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:52 pmMost ridiculous story of the day: Right now on LCL
There could be nothing more suicidal than militarily attacking Iran. Especially with the worn-out Army we currently have.
All Iran has to do is snap some fingers and the Islamic J*had is laying waste to any major European resort town it desires via bombings. Just insanity to bomb Iran.
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:54 pmlack of an endgame has not stopped us in recent days...
April 3rd, 2006 at 12:57 pmWar with Iran? Another politial attempt by the Bushistas to stay in power and a fatal one at that. When are we going to learn to try diplomacy first and basically not stir the hornets nest?
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:00 pm#13 Diplomacy, like Europes failed attempts over the past 2-3 years to deal with Iran?
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:14 pm#13 Diplomacy, like Europes failed attempts over the past 2-3 years to deal with Iran?
Comment by squegeeboo — April 3, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
I would prefer Europe failures to Bushes, at least Europe is not embroiled in a war that appears without end or exit stragety, and have a 9,000,000,000,000 debt to show for it.....
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:17 pmThe last thing I want to see is a war with Iran. It would be disastrous on many levels to say the least. But I think many of us here are underestimating our military and overestimating the power of Iran. If we were to enter into armed conflict with Iran we would wipe out their military in a very short time. (That is- if Russia and China were to stay out of it.) There is no way they could withstand the onslaught of our air force and navy. Coupled with a full assault from our army and marines, Iran wouldn’t stand a chance. We would sustain casualties, probably heavy, but we would pummel them none the less. We’re very good at conventional war. We’re not very good at whatever you want to call what our military is doing in Iraq. (Vietnam redux?)
Occupation of Iran would be another story- impossible.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:22 pm#14 a 2-3 years (at least) delaying war with Iran is good enough ;)
And seriously: diplomacy doesn't work at all when there is someone else menacing with atomic force use, regardless of the diplomatic efforts' results (wink wink, you know who I'm referring to, isn't?). Mahmoud Ahmadinejad feels that the only honorable way of acting is stand firm against USA meddling, and Bush is only stiffling the result, and forcing war.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:25 pm#16, er, what Army and which marines? Even if you count the current six or seven divisions in Iraq as capable of launching an invasion, the Shiite militias have already stated their intent to rise against the US if action against Iran occurs.
So are you stalking about the ones in Iraq, or did I miss something? I agree with you that eroding the conventional air and naval defenses of Iran would be something within the reach of the US, however, there is little chance of stopping the Iranians from closing the Straits of Hormuz to oil traffic or at least of making the journey very hazardous for traffic - USS Cole anyone? It does not matter much about whether the US gains air superiority over Iran, there are 100s of thousands of highly committed Iranians and a lot of places they can go to cause the kinds of trouble 15,000 Iraqis have caused the US. The conventional war is frankly unimportant when you talk about Iran.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:30 pm#13- Unfortunately, BushCo made their feelings about diplomacy crystal clear with the recess appointment of John Bolton, as U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. (Insert "Scalia" gesture here.)
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:34 pm#18
We still have hundreds of thousands of troops stationed around the world and here in the US. We're not all that weak.
As I said Terry- it would be disastrous on many levels. Including that which you stated.
And I'm certainly not advocating war with Iran. I just don't think they would stand a chance in he!! against our military.
(I'm having trouble posting- anyone else?)
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:45 pmThose would be all of the troops that showed up to help after Katrina hit?
Not to mention that I have seen two major base closures in my county get closed. I tell you that people around where I live feel less protected than ever. AND WE LIVE ON THE COAST.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:50 pm#17 - there you go, ES has put himself in Ahmadinejad's shoes and guess what - rational motivation appears:
1. Iran is listed as in the 'Axis of Evil' laong with North Korea and Iraq
2. North Korea has nukes, does not get invaded, sanctioned or anything
3. India has nukes, ignores the NPT and gets a new arms deal and nuke deal from Chimpy
4. Saddam does not have nukes and gets invaded
5. Taliban have no nukes, they get invaded too
6. Pakistan is a hotbed of Islamic radicalism, military dictatorship and responsible for terror attacks on a neighboring democracy...but, well they have nukes too...
Let's see, having nukes, whether you are a 'black hat' or a 'white hat' seems to be a common factor in not being invaded by the US and in some cases can be a real money spinner for you. So if you were Iran and you knew the US didn't like you, what would you do?
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:51 pm#20, I thought that the US only had 14 combat-ready front line divisions and that over half of them were currently in Iraq and most of the rest were refitting. There is just no way I see anything more than about 40,000 troops being ready to go into Iran (and it's 100s of thousands of rested, prepared, committed troops). if 150,000 are not enough for Iraq, then Iran? I don't see any options for a war of conquest with Iran - degradation yes, conquest no.
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:56 pmWELL I TELL ALL YOU FOOLS OUT THERE AMERICA IS THE BIGGEST TERRORIST!!WHY?BECUASE SADDAM JUST KILLED 1000 POEOPLE BUT AMERICA WENT IN IRAQ WHICH HAD NO NUKES AND FUCKING KILLLED 40 THOUSAND INOCCENT PEOPLE!!SO I TELL YOU WHATS THE DIFFRENCE BETWEEN BINLADEN AND BUSH THEY SAME FUCKING THING .
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pm#20 Wisco - does this indicate anything to you about timing of any Iranian assualt?
http://pidp.eastwestcenter.org/pireport/2006/February/02-20-14.htm
April 3rd, 2006 at 1:58 pmwrote about this important subject this morning here relative to its hierarchy in the paradigm of imperativeness. There really is no other subject that should predominate; all other aspects of the same story, i.e. the usurpation of our Republic, our Constitution, our geopolitical agenda, indeed our very existence.
The portents are ubiquitous and salient; the usual suspects are setting the stage for an attack (see the links in the referred article).
Ths issues facing our nation in regards to dealing with the diametrical clash of cultures and the issues of assimilation that are extant here and in Europe are as complex as they are imperative. Only a clean sweep of the incompetent, corrupt, and dangerous politicians that are now in power will suffice.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:36 pmWiscoDuk,
Before you keep on dreamming about how invincible the American Navy really is, perhaps you should read a little bit about these two words: Exocet and Sunburn.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:36 pmYou know what the first move is but not the last move
An irrelevant point if like King George you shoot first and ask questions later.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:41 pmComment by TerrytheTurtle — April 3, 2006 @ 1:56 pm
youre insane
bush is a stooge, i hate him
but if theres a war between us and iran-theyre so outclassed i feel sorry for them
weve got the best navy/airforce EVER
wed have air superiority in 3 days.
we dont need an army... we have air power
theyll be at our mercy militarily
all we want to do is destroy their nuclear facilities
unlike iraq, iran is full of easy targets; bases,airports, powerplants, ships...
this air war against iran will eviscerate THEIR military capability
iran will have no fly zones too
theyll be contained and without nukes
perfect.
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:59 pmyour bunch of morons haha you fat yanks couldnt even win the war in iraq .iraq is a vilage compare to iran.iraq has 25 miion people ,iran has 90 milion and iran has lots of weapons iraq had nothing.you fat americans never learn your not a super power any more.north koria said last month if america wanted to attack them they will nuke usa ,and america shitt in their pants and said we never said that .from that point they never picked on north koria becuase they know norht koria would trash them in war.so they went and picked on iran which is a bit weaker but not by far and usa only wants iran for its oil nothing else for the blind people who dont know this.i personally dont think america has the power to go to war with iran.second ,,iran has 10 million revelotionery guards and hezoblah and basiji.how many people does usa have 40 thousand?haha just lets say 150 thousand.150 thousand against 10 million yeh right i really see america winning this war not!!i think americans cant except that they no longer super power ,they are now very weak and they should focus on iraq which has kicked their ass in the last four years.12 americans have died just these few days in iraq and they wane pick a fight with iran .i think americans are the biggest morons on this planet.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:05 pm#29 Then why are you in Iraq yet? They had no nuclear facilities, they had ten years of aviation containment, a embargo, and you have your military swamped there. Why do you think that Iran would be different?
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:07 pmComment by koss nanat aydin — April 3, 2006 @ 3:05 pm
are you jealous of our superpower status
hmm?
watch and learn my terrorist friend
you sound like somebody who cares about iran and their people
you will be sad when we annihilate them
do you cry when you think about america controlling the mi-east
soon tehran will be dark and filled with rubble, just like baghdad
soon iran will be the b*tch of the west
i feel sorry for the persians and their silly army
you are a russian arent you
it hurts russians the most that america is the worlds only superpower
but hey, you lost the cold war
now the price you pay is watching us own the world
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:16 pm#29 Then why are you in Iraq yet? They had no nuclear facilities, they had ten years of aviation containment, a embargo, and you have your military swamped there. Why do you think that Iran would be different?
Comment by Evil Spaniard — April 3, 2006 @ 3:07 pm
read the comment
it doesnt say bush SHOULD HAVE GONE INTO IRAQ
that was a mistake because iraq was contained
soon, iran will be contained with no fly zones, one their air force is gone
then we can decide later what we want to do
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:20 pmLETS FACE IT YOU LOST THE WAR IN VIATNAM LOL AND YOU LOST THE WAR IN IRAQ NOW YOU WANE LOOSE THE WAR IN IRAN HOW SAD IS THAT SHITT.AMERICANS GOT NO BRAIN THEY GET FUCKKED UP THE ASS AND THEY WANT SOME MORE SO THEY GO PICK ON A COUNTRY WITH FATTER DICK AND BEND OVER AGAIN ALL OVER AGAIN HAHA LOOSERS,
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:23 pmComment by koss nanat aydin — April 3, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
a superpower does what it wants
superpowers make their own rules
someday when oil starts running out
america will control whats left
tell me,, do you cry when you think about your weak country
dominated by the stupid americans?
go ahead and cry, maybe allah will help you
but dont count on it.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:29 pmkoss nanat aydin,
Go play on another site.
Typical- I grew up around a bunch of Iranians in Detroit Mi. They talk a lot of shit until the shit comes down. One punch in the mouth and they run like children- That's the truth.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:31 pmHEY BOORNPOP THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS USA IS WEAK SHITT DONT FIGHT IT LOL OPEN YOUR EYES FAG BOY YOU SOUND REALLY STUPID.AND TRUST ME BOY AMERICA WOULDNT ATTACK IRAN BECUASE THEN IRAN WOULD BASH ISREAL REALLY BAD SO DONT BE STUPID SON.THERE WONT BE NO WAR AMERICA IS BLEEDING FROM THE ASS WITH WAR IN IRAQ ALLREADY THEY HAVE NO MONEY LEFT TO FIGHT A 10 YEAR OR LONGER WAR WITH IRAN STUPID MORON GET A EDUCATION BYEE FOR NOW
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:34 pm#16- It was the "overestimating" of Iraq's military capability that got us into the mess we are in right now. Iran was no threat to us, until BushCo decided to threaten them. And seeing Iraq, they reasonably decided that protecting themselves was a good idea. But BushCo is compounding their stupidity by now "overestimating" Iran's nuclear capability. Even those who "support" BushCo admit that everything would have to go flawlessly for them to be able to even START building a weapon, at some time in the future. And for those willing to be honest about it, it is not likely to be a "cinch". But if BushCo doesn't like the "reality",they just make up one they like better. "If at first you don't succeed..." should not be applied to waging war. That would be STUPID!!!!
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:34 pm#38,
True Cyra- What probably bothers me most about threatening Iran is the fact that they are signatory to the NPT. They have every right to develop nuclear technology for energy. From what I’ve read- there are literally hundreds of people monitoring their program.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:41 pm“If at first you don’t succeed…†should not be applied to waging war. That would be STUPID!!!!
Comment by Cyra Brown — April 3, 2006 @ 3:34 pm
dont be an idiot
IRAN SHOULD NOT GET THE A BOMB
BECAUSE THERN THE SUNNI STATES LIKE SAUDI'S, SYRIA ,ETC. WOULD WANNT THE A BOMB
THAT WOULD LEAD TO AN ARAB ARMS RACE IN THE MID EAST
DESTROYING IRAN IS A LESSER EVIL THAN THAT
YOU HAVE TO AGREE
OR, IN 5 YEARS THE WAR IN THE MIDEST WILL HAVE SERIOUS"FALLOUT"
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:42 pmFrom what I’ve read- there are literally hundreds of people monitoring their program.
Comment by WiscoDuk — April 3, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
THATS NOT TRUE
INFACT, IF YOUVE EVER SEEN THE MAPS WITH IRANIAN NUKE ITES ON IT
THEY HAVE OTHER SECRET SITE THAT WE DONT KNOW ABOUT.
AND WHY, ARE RUSSIA AND CHINA AGAINST IAN GETTING NUKES IF WHAT YOU SAID IS TRUE
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:45 pmHAHAH WHAT A FUCKING IDIOT THIS BLOOM POP IS HAHAH DESTROING IRAN HAHA SO AMERICA CAN GO AND FULLY DESTORY IRAN CAN IT?YOU CANT JUST GO AND KILL 90 MILLION PEOPLE DICKK FACE YOU MUST BE CHATTING FROM A MENTAL NUT CASE PLACE OR SOMETHING GO EAT YOUR PILLS
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:48 pm#39- The Mayor of Hiroshima mentioned an interesting (in a terrifying sort of way), event that recently took place in Nevada. BushCo performed a nuclear weapons test (not allowed) "deep underground" of a "Bunker-Buster" nuclear bomb. Now why would they be doing that? Can't be good, whatever the reason.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:06 pmBloompop, have you been skipping school again? Please take off the double spacing and get a dictionary. If "they" have other secrets we don't know about, then we don't know about them and you cannot, therefor, say anything about something that you admittedly know nothing about.
Geez, you two sound so stupid. Get each other's emails or crayons or whatever and debate amongst yourselves. How awkward you are.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:19 pm#29; We had total, and I mean TOTAL air supremacy in Vietnam but still LOST the war. NO WAR has been won by air power alone, it's always been about boots on the ground and in Iraq, "we're waist deep in the big muddy, and the big fool says to push on."
April 3rd, 2006 at 7:11 pm#43
That is spooky- didn’t Rummy talk about developing those nuclear bunker busters a few years ago?
I'd love to see that test confirmed- talk about treaty violations. A google search turned up plans for a conventional bunker buster bomb test. This is interesting though-
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,348779,00.html
April 3rd, 2006 at 7:13 pmmr clarke, you're scaring the hell outta me. and your testimony in front of the 9/11 commission was some awfully powerful viewing. i will never forget it was was you who i personally heard apologize to the american people for the failures that led to the the attack perpetrated upon us that day. i truly appreciate you for that.
and just look here. people yelling at each other over this, too. on this website of all places; i come here to be enlightened and hear everyone's views of the world. oh, we must all surely be scared about witless right about now, do you think? to have us acting this way towards each other.
we all ought to calm our collective asses down, that's what i think anyway. what this administration thought it was doing and how we let ourselves be sucked into their mindset are way to complicated subjects for someone like me to put into a couple of sentences.
but i'm about through with yelling over it. november is not that far away. here's hoping we make it to the polls, without this crazy train going off its' rails before then.
April 3rd, 2006 at 7:56 pm#46- Great article! Thanks for putting it up. I remember Rumsfeld saying that he hoped to have "small Nukes", like "Bunker-Busters" reclassified as "conventional weapons" so as to be able to use them in military battles. It's just more of their "do as we want, not what we do". How do they walk with those massive 'nads' they've got?
April 4th, 2006 at 1:02 amWhy is it that America only thinks via it's weapons.......? Are we really so simplistic? Gods and guns: is that realy what life is all about?
April 4th, 2006 at 12:33 pmThe neo-cons who want to hit Iran better do it before Nov 06 elections, because after those elections, they are going to be gone!
April 4th, 2006 at 5:28 pmi want you all to think and answer one question why is US alowed to have nukes and iran isnt?? why israel has them and iran isnt alowed to even do nuclear reaserch and if its a terrorist government well in the past 250 years iran hasent touched a country and hasent killed a single person your country the united states has gone all the way across the world to prmote i forgot was it democracy cuz i remember when the people of iraq voted us said they dont like the results but anyhoo just be really plain simple and honest do you think what your country is doing to the world is right???
is it is then if not now in 100-200 -500- 1000 years whenever some other country will take over and then it wont be a pretty sight for you americans and you can feel sorry for my country all you want but if you all think like halfo these articles then i wont feel a bit bad about your faith.
April 4th, 2006 at 10:42 pmno one should be allowed to have nukes.. especially the most powerful, for they tend to commit the biggest crimes..
cause and effect
April 12th, 2006 at 10:02 pm