Gail Norton: Switchin’ on Gwich’in
Gail Norton: Switchin’ on Gwich’in
In her farewell note to Interior Department staff, Secretary Gail Norton waxed poetic about the Gwich’in people who live just south of the Arctic Circle:
America is blessed by its cultural complexity. … I was struck by a statement made by a Gwichin elder in Arctic Village, Alaska. Her people live a subsistence lifestyle, relying mainly on migrating caribou. She said she wanted her grandchildren a thousand years from now to live the same way.
But Norton wasn’t nearly as respectful when the Gwich’in were standing in the way of her drilling plans. Norton was angry that the Gwich’in did not support the Bush administration’s plan for drilling in the Arctic. Shortly after visiting a Gwich’in village in 2001, she gave a speech that said the Gwich’ins were making life harder for “children throughout America”:
If the group’s goal is to continue their subsistence lifestyle for generations, that is certainly their choice. … But that choice also impacts others. The children throughout America, their lives will be affected by these decisions as well whether they will have heat for their homes, whether they will have jobs in a prosperous economy.
Norton’s farewell letter is clearly an effort to cast herself in a favorable light, but the facts of her tenure remain clear: she was the “administration’s biggest advocate for opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge on Alaska’s North Slope to oil drilling.” And she didn’t let anyone slow her down.
Think Progress has the full text of Norton’s letter HERE.
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Amanda – those people want drilling to help their economy. What they don’t want is a bunch of west coast/northeast hypocrites who have abused the earth for generations to tell them they can’t do something.
Why are liberals such fascists pigs? You seek to force your radical ideology on everyone. You are worse than Stalin.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:33 pmThey are all nothing but kiss ass cover up liars.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:34 pm#2 – I know liberals are. It’s awful – how can you stand it?
April 4th, 2006 at 3:37 pmI think it’s fine to disagree with the content posted on this site but please keep the debate substantive and no personal. That applies to all commenters of all views.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:41 pmwhen truth doesn’t matter, the mouthpiece will lie
April 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pmnotron is as disreputable a human as we have on the planet
knows that she lied constantly and that it will kill millions
what the hell does she care?
Norton is simply another marionette being hung back on the rack.
April 4th, 2006 at 3:51 pmDrilling in ANWR is not and has never been about the paltry reserve of oil underneath it. It is about access. It is about climate change, and the rise of temperatures in polar regions.
When the ice melts away from that particular stretch of coastline, it becomes a potential seaport. The fabled Northwest Passage becomes a reality, and Big Oil, Big Guns and Big Drugs are lining up on the dock.
Norton was simply (arguably) pretty window dressing to camoflage Dubious’ agenda……..
Why are liberals such fascists pigs? You seek to force your radical ideology on everyone. You are worse than Stalin.
Comment by Culture of Disruption
Hey, Culter of Dissing, that is quite a crack about “fascist pigs” and all. And that stuff about “radical ideology” was pretty good. You almost sound like my old girl friend, mighty aphrodite.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but what’s your take on the story about that other fascist, Tom DeLay? I mean, it just frosts my ass to know how all the liberals are laughing and grinning watching his fascist ass take down the Republican rightwing right along with him. How about you?
April 4th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#1: Nice to see you’re able to speak for the Gwich’in people. You must have talked with them for quite some time to be able to speak to what the want and who they want to act on their behalf. Or, are you a hypocrite?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:00 pmBarf. Hope she gets hung with Abramoff.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:00 pmWell, Norton’s legacy of dead fish on the Klamath will always be my memory of her. Someone should resurrect that photo of her turning the irrigation wheel back on for those useless farmers, and superimpose it over the pictures the half mile wide mouth of the Klamath, filled with dead fish. There’s a legacy to be proud of.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:01 pm#7 – don’t go popping champagne corks just yet. The election is months away and the reaction to DeLay’s resignation will be partisan. Until Democrats come up with a platform other than shoving their environmental views on the people of Alaska, they will remain the minority party.
Interesting that most anti-oil prod congressional reps come from the northeast states and California, both areas that have repeatedly raped mother earth for their own gain for the last fifty years. Talk about hypocrisy.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:02 pmREJOICE RIGHTIES!!! IT LOOKS LIKE THE CONSTITUION IS FINALLY GOING TO BE SAVED!!!
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/04/mckinney.scuffle/
April 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pm#12 – she committed a crime.
I doubt you would be so sympathetic if it were Kay Bailey or Katherine Harris who did this. Why are you a hypocrite?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:09 pmI dont care that she slaped a cop ..I dont care at all.. really I dont…
What I care about is benedict arnolds making secret pacts with foreign powers… waging illegal wars… letting Osama go free… and holding hands with the enemy that attacked us on 911… So when are you guys going to bring Saudi Arabia to justice for attacking America on 911?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:14 pmGerald, you live in a fantasy world. When you come back to reality, I will debate you. Until then, I consider you a. insane or b. a hateful liar.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:21 pm#12
REJOICE RIGHTIES!!! IT LOOKS LIKE THE CONSTITUION IS FINALLY GOING TO BE SAVED!!!
Comment by Gerald Gibson
So please explain to me which part of the Constitution was threatened to be subverted by an altercation between a Congresswoman and a policeman.
If this is what the right has to be excited about then they are in sad days….
Oh..I also heard that a democrat from Califonia got a speeding ticket….
April 4th, 2006 at 4:25 pmthis woman is simply VILE, sick, money-grubbing, corrupt republican.
the true underlying reason for Norton’s departure—in addition to Abramoff ties—is her abysmal handling of the Indian Trust Matter aka Corbell v. Norton. Frankly, Senator, I am astonished that your committee hadn’t expressed more concern over this matter. Arguably, Norton should have been impeached.
Judge Lambeth, in an opinion in that matter wrote:
April 4th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Gerald,
April 4th, 2006 at 4:28 pmSorry didn’t get the sarcasm fast enough….brain slow….fingers fast.
#14 – Cool. Culture of Dis will debate you when you return to reality(see #15).
Be aware that CODs reality is guarded with a barrier of magical rainbows which are emitted from pots of gold, maintained and operated by fairies and pixies.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:29 pmGerald, you live in a fantasy world. When you come back to reality, I will debate you. Until then, I consider you a. insane or b. a hateful liar.
Comment by Culture of Disruption
You want to play a game of links to proof?
I got a long long looooooong list of them….you go first…
April 4th, 2006 at 4:30 pm#14
I dont care that she slaped a cop ..I dont care at all.. really I dont…
So is it OK for elected officials to break the law? Or is it some laws? or some officials? Should the cop have let someone he did not know just walk past the detectors for fear of upseting someone?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:30 pmGerald,
Sorry didn’t get the sarcasm fast enough….brain slow….fingers fast.
Comment by dlet
There has been so many times that I have been half way through a riposte and it dawned on me there was sarcasm in there that I had missed…. it happens to us all… well not republicans… they are made out of that same plastic there jesus idols are …they are all perfect….
April 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pm#17
Arguably, Norton should have been impeached.
Not to be a total troll here, but that word gets used around here about every republican listed in any article by someone. It has quite honestly lost all it’s effect. After the Clinton hearings it is really sounding like someone just wants to “get back”. More like a vendetta than for any real reason.
I mean keep yelling “Impeach Bush” at least it will be consistant.
Just my 2 cents.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pmGerald – prove to me that Bush lied about WMD and Democrats had no hand in it at all. They were clueless. They were asleep at the wheel while BushHitler was planning to conquer the world for oil only to have it sit at 60 bucks a barrel for the last year.
Gerald – you don’t want an intelligent. When stop trashing our Commander in Chief for the same things your Democrats did, then we’ll debate. Until then, simmer in your hate alone.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pmSo is it OK for elected officials to break the law? Or is it some laws? or some officials? Should the cop have let someone he did not know just walk past the detectors for fear of upseting someone?
Comment by Tundra
I just dont care about slaping cops….
I care about traitors….wars….that damned piece of paper the Constitution… and antiChrists using the good name of Jesus to justify killing, stealing, and destroying…
You can concentrate on the cop slapping if you want… I just dont care… the only time I have felt sorry for a cop was on 911…all the others I have met needed attitude adjustments.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pmThat was on heck of a self-absorbed farewell letter.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pmActually I felt sorry for the cops that commited suicide in New Orleans after they came back home and found their familys drowned… but thats about it.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pmSo is it OK for elected officials to break the law? Or is it some laws? or some officials? Should the cop have let someone he did not know just walk past the detectors for fear of upseting someone?
Comment by Tundra — April 4, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
So then you’re for impeachment of Bush for his violations? :)
April 4th, 2006 at 4:38 pmGerald – prove to me that Bush lied about WMD and Democrats had no hand in it at all. They were clueless. They were asleep at the wheel while BushHitler was planning to conquer the world for oil only to have it sit at 60 bucks a barrel for the last year.
Gerald – you don’t want an intelligent. When stop trashing our Commander in Chief for the same things your Democrats did, then we’ll debate. Until then, simmer in your hate alone.
Comment by Culture of Disruption
The CIA told the white house on several occasions that the info in Bush speeches were false and they used the info anyway to scare Americans …
Bush knew
Want to keep going?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:40 pmFair enough Gerald, Works as a justification to me. You don’t like cops, sort of how I feel for Lawyers and Reporters.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:41 pm#21
Tundra
How about elected officials hunting without the proper permits? Then shooting them in the face.
Should they get away scot-free?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:45 pmFair enough Gerald, Works as a justification to me. You don’t like cops, sort of how I feel for Lawyers and Reporters.
Comment by Tundra
Cops have a purpose ..when they dont abuse their power… same for lawyers… escpecially the ambulance chasers… and reporters SHOULD be heros for truth… but I guess when you are told you job is on the line then you got to lie your ass off …well that is not what JESUS did …but what reporter really wants to stand up for truth in the face of crusifiction?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pmAt this point, focusing on Oil is such a stupid idea. It’s like sitting in the 1920s trying to subsidize horse carriages. The age of Oil is ending, and the dinosaurs of the republican party are just running the country into the ground with their lack of vision.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:47 pmBye, bye, Norton, please let the door hit your rear on your way out the door.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:48 pmOH STOP IT!! So, I’m overweight and pre-menopausal, and I’m late for a meeting, and hurrying to get there, and I didn’t know the guy was talkin’ to ME, cause I’ve got no need to go through that checkpoint, so I hurry on through, and then somebody runs up and grabs my arm, and damn right!, I reacted and turned and pushed the attacker away – SO SUE ME!
Now, get back to the important topics – Republican Corruption!
April 4th, 2006 at 4:48 pmTake your pick:
The Corruption Files
GOP Scandal Scorecard
The Scandal Sheet
Banana Republicans
but what reporter really wants to stand up for truth in the face of crusifiction?
Helen Thomas is the only one I know of.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:49 pmI was struck by a statement made by a Gwichin elder in Arctic Village, Alaska. Her people live a subsistence lifestyle, relying mainly on migrating caribou. She said she wanted her grandchildren a thousand years from now to live the same way.
Really? Her grandchildren? A thousand years from now? Either she’s cryogenically frozen her immediate offspring, or them Gwichin live a looooong time.
In Norton’s “defense,” she didn’t say that she was going for the Gwichin way of life..she was just “struck” by it. Struck as in, she then thought “Boy, that’s not gonna last when we drill up this mofo.”
Coincidentally, the generation in existence a thousand years from now will be the first who won’t be burdened by the Bush deficit exacerbated by war-time tax cuts to big oil! Good times! Maybe after catastrophic climate change and the crushing economy if Iran pushes the base of the oil economy to euros/China calls in our debt, subsistance living will be the way of life?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:50 pm#28
How are ya hun??
So then you’re for impeachment of Bush for his violations?
I might be, but ya know the word has lost all meaning to me :)
#31
How about elected officials hunting without the proper permits?
I believe he should have been treated just like any civilian who did the same thing. Whatever the fine for hunting without the proper tag is. Typically a fine
She should be handed the same punishment as anyone else who hits a cop. Normally some community service etc.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:50 pmAs a long-time Colorado resident , I have witnessed the actions of Norton firsthand and it wasn’t a pretty sight.
In hindsight, her nomination to, and subsequent controversial confirmation as Sec. of Interior, is a perfect prism to view the GWB presidency: Pro business, lobbyist/activist, lack of qualitative or quantative experience or skills; but the ability to make oil/gas, mining, and timber leases available (cheap), change the uses and designations of public lands and National Parks for special interests and, of course, cronyism and ties to Abramoff. Her reign of terror is over, unfortunately her sucessor is cut-from-the-cloth.
Republican Motto: ideology first, America somewhere on the list.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:51 pm#33
exactly
I read somewhere that change only occurs when the need for change over powers the grip of those that fear change have on power. This is generally why change only occurs after a disaster…
If only we had people that could think like FDR did… a letter from Einstein and a little brain power was all America needed to make sure that we had nuclear power first.
If we do not get some people with humility and brains in the position of power here soon then we are just going to have to wait for the disaster to force us to change…
April 4th, 2006 at 4:51 pmgforcewinds – don’t forget,
Peter Arnett and Keith Olbermann. They’ve both shown courage under fire.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:52 pmbut what reporter really wants to stand up for truth in the face of crusifiction?
Helen Thomas is the only one I know of.
Comment by gforcewinds
Oh ya … I never see her on the news though… the last time I saw anything from her ..was .. on this site.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:54 pmHow are ya hun??
Bathed, I’m afraid ; ) You?
I might be, but ya know the word has lost all meaning to me :)
Comment by Tundra — April 4, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
Yeah, they used to be what – once a century? Now, every Presidency? Are there any good guys who want to be leader for a change? How about you?
April 4th, 2006 at 4:57 pmAnother Republican Flip-flopper. She isn’t good enough to walk in the same snowshoes as the Gwich’n let alone even speak their name. She is just another whore for oil.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:57 pmIf we do not get some people with humility and brains in the position of power here soon then we are just going to have to wait for the disaster to force us to change
Or someone to start a company or move an existing company into a position to leverage alternative fuels properly. Of course then they will be called a corporate greed company instead of one that moved us away from oil and saved the environment.
April 4th, 2006 at 4:58 pm“She should be handed the same punishment as anyone else who hits a cop. Normally some community service etc. Comment by Tundra”
OK, I was going to avoid this STUPID thread, but here goes.
When the cop is ‘wrong’ and ‘racially profiles’, nothing happens in the real world, except to the cop – I guess you missed that part. Considering that she’s a VERY WELL KNOWN member of congress, and that the job of these cops is to protect members of the Congress – well I’m sorry but all you’ve done is shown this cop shouldn’t be in that job. And unless the cop has a bruise, or a broken bone, I’d tell him/her to grow up and realize that he had contributed if not caused the problem.
Yeah, sure, she should just have taken his ‘treatment’ without resisting.
Sorry Tundra, but your natural ‘militarism’ is kind of disturbing. Most countries fall from their own police and military, not external forces. Something you seem to fail to recognize.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:01 pmIf only we had people that could think like FDR did… a letter from Einstein and a little brain power was all America needed to make sure that we had nuclear power first.
Comment by Gerald Gibson — April 4, 2006 @ 4:51 pm
And people like Einstein who aren’t declared ‘evil’ because they use Science to explain the mysteries of the universe instead of 7 days of creation.
I saw an article not so long ago that showed some zealot teaching elementray school children to respond to the Big Bang Theory with disrespectful mocking and derision. I’ve gotten some myself. And then people will wonder why there are no Einsteins anymore. Even Stephen Hawking has to talk about God in his books for people to read them. Pathetic.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:02 pmOr someone to start a company or move an existing company into a position to leverage alternative fuels properly. Of course then they will be called a corporate greed company instead of one that moved us away from oil and saved the environment.
Comment by Tundra
1) That would be great! I would like to work with/for a company like that if it had the same $$$ backing as big oil…
2) I know what you mean… lots of people demonize Microsoft after they broke IBMs grip on power…
April 4th, 2006 at 5:02 pmRyan,
You’re right I omitted Peter Arnett and Keith Olbermann and they do stand up. (My bad). Helen may not be on the news much but she’s always had the guts to ask the tough questions – ones that others won’t touch with a ten foot pole – deserves to be mentioned as courageous.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:03 pmTundra,
If we are to believe the republican side of the McKinney story, then the capital police let anyone with a ‘pin’ through the security gate, without recognizing them. This means that a terrorist could simply steal or duplicate the pin, and subvert the national security and endanger our congress people. If we are to believe that the police don’t know these very members of congress by sight, and in person, then what you guys are really saying is that the capital police is at fault for bad procedures, and improperly trained staff. Because that’s the only LOGICAL conclusion one can make for permitting people you don’t recognize from entering without searches based on a lapel pin.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:05 pmOf course then they will be called a corporate greed company instead of one that moved us away from oil and saved the environment.
Comment by Tundra — April 4, 2006 @ 4:58 pm
Sure, by some. But to most people, I think it depends on how they handle themselves. Power and money can corrupt. Look at Google. They’ve become a word, and yet, at least I don’t think, anyone calls them either corporate or greedy. And it’s because the owners seem to share the success of the company with the employees and the community.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:08 pmOK, I was going to avoid this STUPID thread, but here goes.
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 4, 2006 @ 5:01 pm
Well, we did sorta get kicked out of the other one. If it weren’t for you Ryan, I’d feel like an even bigger rogue than I usually do ; )
April 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pmTundra & Gerald, believe it or not BP is doing just that. They now call themselves Beyond Petroleum instead of British Petroleum as a signal for their strategy. They’ve become one of the largest suppliers of wind and solar – but then again, they’re british and not from Texas :)
In fact if you go to bpsolar.com, it’s their ’solar website’ dedicated to their technology. They’ve bought their way into much of the industry – but they haven’t squandered or squashed the technology. In fact they’ve made great strides in staying competitive – which to me means they actually do believe in energy beyond petroleum.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pmWell, well, well, Gerald – looks like you hit COD’s tender spot. With a retort such as the request to stop trashing the chimp, COD is well aware that you speak the truth otherwise there wouldn’t have been such hostility in CODs response. Good job Gerald Gibson.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pm#48
1) That would be great! I would like to work with/for a company like that if it had the same $$$ backing as big oil
As would I, but alot of companies started off in garages etc without the backing up front. Now me and you just have to find the right visionaries, bust our tails for 10 years and live on a beach drinking a fruity drink with an unbrella in it. :)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pmcynthia 35 – just heard about that list on randi rhodes …
April 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pmyou forgot one: Stupid Delay Quotes
“Well, we did sorta get kicked out of the other one. If it weren’t for you Ryan, I’d feel like an even bigger rogue than I usually do ; ) Comment by unbelievable”
Well you do have that x-men quality of being able to suck the life out of the braindead trolls ;)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:13 pmTundra & Gerald, believe it or not BP is doing just that. They now call themselves Beyond Petroleum instead of British Petroleum as a signal for their strategy. They’ve become one of the largest suppliers of wind and solar – but then again, they’re british and not from Texas :)
In fact if you go to bpsolar.com, it’s their ’solar website’ dedicated to their technology. They’ve bought their way into much of the industry – but they haven’t squandered or squashed the technology. In fact they’ve made great strides in staying competitive – which to me means they actually do believe in energy beyond petroleum.
Comment by Ryan Neat
Why all the oil bashing then??? Lets start pumping up BP so they get a social pay back for their hard work … IF they really are serious we should be making noise about it so others are shamed into following their lead… I will look those links up…
April 4th, 2006 at 5:15 pmGerald,
Because BP doesn’t run the show in this country, Exxon and the rest do. There’s a reason that europe is more ‘progressive’ in alternative fuels than the US is – their oil companies are run by retarded texans.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:17 pmWell you do have that x-men quality of being able to suck the life out of the braindead trolls ;)
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 4, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
I’ve had a good mentor ;)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:19 pmWell you do have that x-men quality of being able to suck the life out of the braindead trolls ;)
Saying she is like Beast?
April 4th, 2006 at 5:23 pm#48
1) That would be great! I would like to work with/for a company like that if it had the same $$$ backing as big oil
As would I, but alot of companies started off in garages etc without the backing up front. Now me and you just have to find the right visionaries, bust our tails for 10 years and live on a beach drinking a fruity drink with an unbrella in it. :)
Comment by Tundra
I have a vision…. I just dont have any money to make it happen…
In fact here is a little idea someone out there maybe able to take advantage of before I get the money to do so myself…
Energy can be generated through change… movement… electricity is generated by spinning magnets around wire….
Think of all the places where movement happens and that is an opportunity to generate a little electricity …. add it all up and we could power everything without oil…
Think …the hing on a cell phone… the hing on a door… the force of people walking across floors…. the spinning of wheels on cars… think about everything that moves or spins and if it was attached to some magnets and wire it could generate a little electricity…
Here is a story I read not too long ago … it was about Thomas Edison I believe… “He used to have a gate leading into his front yard that was difficult to push open… not too difficult but it sure wasnt opened automatically either… finally after years and years of visiting Mr. Edison one of his visitors asked him why he never fixed his gate… Mr. Edison said because it isnt broke… he had his gate hooked up to a mechanism that when the gate was pushed open it pumped a little water … that pumped water helped keep his highly automated plumbling system going… all it took was a little elbow power from his guests as they entered his estate!”
Smart people can do wonderful things… this is why we need another Manhattan project… America can do anything …if it gives itself the chance to do so… and today that means money… and government funding is the biggest money around … why build bridges to no where when we can fund thousands of future Mr. Edisons?
April 4th, 2006 at 5:23 pmSaying she is like Beast?
Comment by Tundra — April 4, 2006 @ 5:23 pm
In your dreams ; )
April 4th, 2006 at 5:24 pm#23
Regarding impeachment of Norton:
This excerpt is from a letter I sent to a Senator on the Committee that oversees the Interior Department. And, in it I have a prelude to the quote and the
Norton should be impeached
phrase you quote.
The woman took a bribe from Abramoff, but the impeachable offense can be gleaned from the Indian matter where she was responsible for, if I remember correctly, the oversight of $29 million dollars that has, more or less, been ‘misplaced’.
First, a bribe of a Cabinet Officer is impeachable; Second, a breach of her duties she had toward the Indian tribe is a potential breach of fiduciary duties, which brings her into the class of ‘high crime or misdeamenor’
So, I think I could make a good argument for her impeachment, and, I contend that that fear and her mishandling of the indian matter were the REAL reasons she was asked to ‘quit and spend time with her family.
I hope that clears it up a bit.
Thank you.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:25 pmwhy build bridges to no where when we can fund thousands of future Mr. Edisons?
Comment by Gerald Gibson — April 4, 2006 @ 5:23 pm
I’d did some grant writing in my prior career as an architect. In that process, I learned that you can get governement money to do just about anything. You may not need your own to start the research. I’m sure they keep information about it online. I’m off on Spring Break this week and would be happy to look around a bit if you’d like?
I really enjoyed your post about Edison. And your enthusiasm for thiking outside the box. I hope you get the electricity to keep it moving :)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:29 pmRyan,
OK, I’ll conceide. If a capitol police guard doesn’t recognize someone, they should assume they are a member of congress (Is this only if they are African American or anyone?).
If said person fails to stop when asked, they should not in any way place their hands on them.
I realize how easy it sounds to have every capitol police officer recognize everyone working in every building. There are only like what 20 or 30 capitol police officers and a couple members of congress?
April 4th, 2006 at 5:31 pmI’d did some grant writing in my prior career as an architect. In that process, I learned that you can get governement money to do just about anything. You may not need your own to start the research. I’m sure they keep information about it online. I’m off on Spring Break this week and would be happy to look around a bit if you’d like?
I really enjoyed your post about Edison. And your enthusiasm for thiking outside the box. I hope you get the electricity to keep it moving :)
Comment by unbelievable
Now you got me thinking…..
April 4th, 2006 at 5:32 pmNow you got me thinking…..
Comment by Gerald Gibson — April 4, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
Add this to the stew…
Kinetic energy from ocean motion… there’s a lot of force there to be harnessed (but must be done without damaging the ecosystem). I haven’t thought it through, just am teaching it to the students, coincidentally enough…
April 4th, 2006 at 5:36 pmI realize how easy it sounds to have every capitol police officer recognize everyone working in every building. There are only like what 20 or 30 capitol police officers and a couple members of congress?
Comment by Tundra — April 4, 2006 @ 5:31 pm
One teacher I know took pictures of all of her students and assembled it on a sheet for substitutes so they would know who was supposed to be in the class, and who was the specific kid that was misbehaving. Perhaps something like that would be helpful? : )
April 4th, 2006 at 5:38 pmKinetic energy from ocean motion… there’s a lot of force there to be harnessed (but must be done without damaging the ecosystem). I haven’t thought it through, just am teaching it to the students, coincidentally enough…
Comment by unbelievable
http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter14.html
Norway I believe is already doing this!!
IF only we had ALL of America thinking like this after 911 …Even the south could help out … all the brain power combined would find the answer… where are the leaders that guide these types of efforts?
April 4th, 2006 at 5:40 pm“OK, I’ll conceide. If a capitol police guard doesn’t recognize someone, they should assume they are a member of congress (Is this only if they are African American or anyone?). Tundra”
How many big black women are there serving in congress? And you didn’t answer my question. Are republicans going to have us to believe that a PIN is all that gets someone through security? That the guard will let them through even though they don’t recognize them if they have a PIN?
“I realize how easy it sounds to have every capitol police officer recognize everyone working in every building. There are only like what 20 or 30 capitol police officers and a couple members of congress? Comment by Tundra ”
Yeah, I can imagine how hard it would be to recognize all of those african american women in congress – there are so many of them, and none of them stand out…
Sorry, but we’re talking about the capital building, not the whole city.
So you have a handful of options.
1) Cops are relying on ‘PINS’ to subvert the security – a scarey prospect.
2) Cops are relying on ‘FACES’, in which case, why is it they have trouble remembering one of the few black women in congress.
3) Cops are harrassing her because they don’t like here – a very real possibility.
If you have a system at the capital that lets people subvert security – you’d better know EVERY person who can get through, otherwise it’s a massive security hole. Sorry, but I’m not buying the whole ‘didn’t recognize’ thing, unless we’re going to say that yet another division of this administration is inept – an unfortunate possibility McKinney shouldn’t have to pay for.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:40 pmHelen Thomas is not a reporter. She’s a left wing partisan with radical anti-American views. Of course you people love her. She’s a liar and claims Jimmy “f*ck the Shah” Carter was our best President.
Helen Thomas is why it’s so easy to bash the media. We thank you for your ignorance.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:41 pmOne teacher I know took pictures of all of her students and assembled it on a sheet for substitutes so they would know who was supposed to be in the class, and who was the specific kid that was misbehaving. Perhaps something like that would be helpful? : )
They have something like that, but its sort of hard to quickly flip through several hundred photos when someone is walking right past you.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:41 pmAs a long-time Colorado resident , I have witnessed the actions of Norton firsthand and it wasn’t a pretty sight.
Comment by Jeff
Gail Norton is an environmentalist compared to her replacement: Governor Dirk Kempthorne of Idaho. This guy is one of the biggest Bush suckasses that ever crawled out from under an oil drum. And he has never found an extraction industry he couldn’t take $ from.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:42 pmI had about a hundred students every trimester. It would not take me a week to learn all of their names. That was my job!!! Their job is to know who is and who is not allowed to walk into the building without being searched!!
April 4th, 2006 at 5:43 pm“I had about a hundred students every trimester. It would not take me a week to learn all of their names”
Jules, you are a breed apart, the minority, like say 3, of my professors in college took the time to learn all the students names, the rest only learned the top 5-10 contributers in each class, if that.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:46 pmwhere are the leaders that guide these types of efforts?
Comment by Gerald Gibson — April 4, 2006 @ 5:40 pm
Definitely not in the White House, Congress or the Senate…
I think we have serious cultural barriers to overcome Gerald. People would rather watch television than think.
Maybe we should just move to Norway. One of the cleanest, safest, and friendliest places I have ever been. And no one hates them :)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:47 pmActually, if anyone would have ‘fuck the shah’ as his middle name, it would be the beast who spawned this animal now living there, hence,
read ‘The United States and Iran : the patterns of influence / R. K. Ramazani’
long live helen thomas and bring back sam donaldson!!!!!
oh, and fuck bush
April 4th, 2006 at 5:49 pmThank you squegeeboo, I consider myself a breed apart also. However, I am not in tne minority in this case. I do not know any of the teachers I worked with who did not try to learn the names of all of their students. It is important to make a child feel as if you care about them. One of the best ways I know to do this is to call them by name. It gives them a sense that they are important.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:50 pmThey have something like that, but its sort of hard to quickly flip through several hundred photos when someone is walking right past you.
Comment by squegeeboo — April 4, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
I realize it is quite a lot to ask, considering some of them are replaced every two years, but perhaps they (police) could actually look at the book and learn the faces in advance? ;)
Actually, being from Georgia, I know Cynthia McKinney from local gossip. In my guess, the situation was the result of two head-strong people who both thought they were right. After all, it takes two to have a conflict, and sometimes, they are both equally to blame. In this case, I’m going middle of the road. Though, I enjoy reading Tundra and Ryan debate the issue, and don’t want to distract from that :).
April 4th, 2006 at 5:52 pmsquishypoop,
The police apparently did have a picture of McKinney, but they argue they didn’t recognize her because she pulled her hair back instead of having it in a more ‘natural’ state. If you’re too stupid to be able to recognize someone when they have a change in hairstyle, you shouldn’t be protecting the country from terrorist threats…
April 4th, 2006 at 5:52 pmComment by Culture of Disruption
Why are you eluding my link? Are you afraid you can not back up your BIG talk? You want to guess what we all think is the answer? BIG TALKER.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:53 pmAw come on Ryan – she was incognito! (did I spell that correctly?)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:54 pm#33 Ryan,
Exactly, I also have heard it referred to as the “second wave” coming to an end, and the “third wave” beginning. Yes the age of oil is coming to and end, sorry Repubs, change is scary. When’s the last time we saw a really great accomplishment in this age of oil? The good ole days ended in the 70’s, getting to the moon was the Apex of the age of oil. Since then we have only learned to expand on the great achievements of the industrial age of oil, nothing really new and amazing. (computers were invented in the 50’s people, we still use the same essential medications, just newer versions of the originals).
April 4th, 2006 at 5:54 pmunbelievable,
She’s a ‘fierce’ woman, and that always sets up the circumstances for men to want to bring her down a peg. She’s had multiple altercations with the capital police, who for some reason seem to be able to remember her white assistant – but not her. And I wonder why she feels there might be a ‘racial’ aspect to this?
April 4th, 2006 at 5:55 pmIt gives them a sense that they are important.
Comment by Jules — April 4, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
And in some cases, unfortunately, one of the few senses of that in the mass sea of CRCT scores and fund raising activities.
I could learn a lot from you Jules. It takes me two weeks to learn all their names ;)
April 4th, 2006 at 5:56 pm#81 Ryan,
The officer also feels “they all look alike anyway”.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:56 pmJimmy “f*ck the Shah†Carter was our best President
Comment by Culture of Disruption
I dont want to start bashing Reagan because I still have not resigned myself to thinking of him as a bad guy …. but Carter didnt pay off the Iranian hostage takers… Reagan did…. you seem awefully shallow in the brain there ….
Perhaps pooh bear of very little brain is just doing the best he can do.
April 4th, 2006 at 5:57 pmYes but unbelievable you are a first year. Think how scary it is going to be when you see them in the mall in two years and still remember their names. It always shocks them! Actually, some I would rather forget!
April 4th, 2006 at 5:58 pm#75
They have not released the name of the officer at all. Noone has said if it was his first day on the job, he normally worked in a different building and was covering for someone, he just got promoted off of the street and into the security checkpoints. I have heard rumors she was not often in the building it happened in but cannot find the article again. I just think there may be a whole lot of possibilities out there. If I was walking into the place I work every day and had my ID checked everyday I would just sort of accept it.
I know some members of this site feel it is more important for police officers to recognize African American women more than anyone else and if in doubt just let them pass.
Ryan, Sure remove the pins. I have no idea what chowderhead considers that a security measure. As far as I am concerned congresspersons should have to walk through the detectors like everyone else. You can buy the pins on-line. I would guess (feel free to assault the guess here) that they are used to reinforce the face as officers get to know them.
Sorry, but I’m not buying the whole ‘didn’t recognize’ thing,
That is because you feel everyone is inheritently evil.
unless we’re going to say that yet another division of this administration is inept
April 4th, 2006 at 5:58 pmYou have no idea if the capitol police guard happens to be the most left wing liberal around. But he dared challenge someone from entering a building he didn’t recognize and he is automatically a “Reichtwing” administrative whore.
#90 – where did you get that information? I have read she has had run ins with this “gentleman” in the past.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:00 pmRyan – stop inciting race. Why do you incite race to cover up for McKinney’s obvious arrogance? Why do you want someone like her representing your values?
April 4th, 2006 at 6:01 pm#92 – could you first explain how you would want someone like Bush representing your values? Oh wait, you are a republican – you have no values!
April 4th, 2006 at 6:03 pmAnd I wonder why she feels there might be a ‘racial’ aspect to this?
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 4, 2006 @ 5:55 pm
In my opinion, Georgia is one of the most racist states in the Union. I see it all around. I have no doubt that it is very real and it exists – especially for black women. It’s twice as hard for them because of their double minority status.
I also have known several cops over the years, including my cousin. They are trained to distrust everyone.
A mix of a woman who is used to racism combined with a person who is trained to be suspicious of those who are different sounds like a recipe for conflict.
I think you make a great argument, as always. I just think they probably both could have averted the situation by giving some lattitude, and therefore are both responsible in part. Maybe one more than the other.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:03 pm#81 if you’re too stupid to be able to recognize someone when they have a change in hairstyle, you shouldn’t be protecting the country from terrorist threats…
she refused to stop when asked, according to U.S. Capitol Police.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:04 pmIf your to stupid to stop when asked to by a police officer, maybe you shouldnt be representing anyone in congress.
Ryan – stop inciting race. Why do you incite race to cover up for McKinney’s obvious arrogance? Why do you want someone like her representing your values?
Comment by Culture of Disruption
Because even if she was a $2 crack whore she would be less dangerous than the people YOU vote for.
Are you still wanting to play the game DOA?
April 4th, 2006 at 6:05 pm#92 This is gonna suck cause I def don’t want to agree with Ryan ever, but she does have a valid history of racist things happening to her, which gives her an excuse to at least claim it in this case if she wants, until proven otherwise.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:06 pmYes but unbelievable you are a first year. Think how scary it is going to be when you see them in the mall in two years and still remember their names. It always shocks them! Actually, some I would rather forget!
Comment by Jules — April 4, 2006 @ 5:58 pm
I live in a relatively small town and run into some now in the grocery store. I’m surprised how nice they are out of class. Sometimes I think some of it is an act in the classroom.
Oh, yeah, there are some that should be forgotten :)
April 4th, 2006 at 6:08 pmhttp://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/0331metmckinney.html
(I’ll keep looking for the one where she doesn’t visit that building often)
Here it says he wasn’t identified. I read she had problems with “Officers” in the past. So much so they had to make up special posters with her picture on it and post them separate at every checkpoint.
Andy Maybo, head of the Capitol Hill chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police, praised the officer involved in the incident, who has not been identified.
The police union, he said, was “extremely proud of our officer. He has upheld his duties and responsibilities in a professional manner,” Maybo said. “He was correct in his actions and we support him 100 percent.”
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), talking to reporters Thursday, called the incident “a mistake,” and said she hoped the police and McKinney could settle the dispute.
Ryan,
April 4th, 2006 at 6:09 pmCiting her whole quote would have been nice by the way! Instead of the small section of it that says 100% support for her from an extreme leftist.
Pelosi said it was understandable that an officer who didn’t recognize a member of Congress would try to stop her from going around a checkpoint. But she added, “I can also understand that members who have been here a long time think they’re recognizable. I wouldn’t make a big deal of this.”
Tundra,
Actually I find you to be a decent person, and I don’t consider you a TROLL in the reichwing sense – but I do find you a little to ‘police state friendly’ than I like to see in someone who’s otherwise seemingly a bright, thoughtful and articulate person. You’re the republican party as it used to be – by the way. We may not always agree on everything, but you’re not a complete lunatic either :)
Lets take your points one at a time.
“hey have not released the name of the officer at all. Noone has said if it was his first day on the job, he normally worked in a different building and was covering for someone, he just got promoted off of the street and into the security checkpoints. Tundra”
Actually this is a great point, but it begs back to the competence of the organization, and their security procedures. We know they have pictures of McKinney there, and if the main ’security measure’ is a stupid lapel pin, then what was this guy doing providing security? If he didn’t know who the staff was, then he shouldn’t have been in the job. But because of his own incompetence, ignorance or poor training he harrasses a member of congress who was late for a meeting. Sorry, but he’s as much or more guilty than anything you can put on her. All she did was respond when someone grabbed her that she didn’t know when she was going about her business – MOST women would do the same.
“I know some members of this site feel it is more important for police officers to recognize African American women more than anyone else and if in doubt just let them pass.” Tundra
Because there are so few of them, and they kind of stand out. Have you seen McKinney? I’ve never met her, and I bet I could spot her in a crowd no matter what hair style she was wearing.
“That is because you feel everyone is inheritently evil. Tundra”
Not true. I don’t think you’re inherently evil (just a little misguided) based on your posts so far :)
“You have no idea if the capitol police guard happens to be the most left wing liberal around. Tundra”
I was discussing those in charge – not the police officer themselves. I would guess that he’s a reichwingers – considering who’s doing the hiring in washington right now. But even if he’s not – the organization and particularly the management of the government (the capital police is part of the federal government). At the core of their mission is to protect members of congress – not harrass or assault them.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:09 pmIf we had a mindreading device, everyone would be up shit creek.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:14 pm“I think you make a great argument, as always. I just think they probably both could have averted the situation by giving some lattitude, and therefore are both responsible in part. Maybe one more than the other. Comment by unbelievable ”
I agree, but the rabid reichwing over-reaction is just whacko. Especially when you can clearly see how a reasonable person in her place might feel.
I can also feel for the officer, but next time he might check his photos before grabbing a congressman. Personally I think they need a better system for security, and that’s the only real clear response that should come out of this.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:15 pmWhat do you expect from a cop, they think like criminals, it’s been shown in psychological testing. I wouldn’t put it past the cop for just wanting to give Mckinney a hard time.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:16 pm“she refused to stop when asked, according to U.S. Capitol Police.
If your to stupid to stop when asked to by a police officer, maybe you shouldnt be representing anyone in congress. Comment by squishypoop”
If the police officer tasked with protecting congress doesn’t even know what they look like, then he’s too stupid to be in that job – just like you.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:17 pm“If we had a mindreading device, everyone would be up shit creek. Comment by For Truth ”
And we’d find that most people don’t have a paddle ;)
April 4th, 2006 at 6:19 pmI agree,
The system of security is the problem, don’t set up a system where people can be waived and walk by if you cannot remember all who can do this. In Mexico City, the officials are implanted with ID chips, how about the congresspeople have a badge with a chip or magnetic strip?
April 4th, 2006 at 6:20 pmI agree, but the rabid reichwing over-reaction is just whacko. Especially when you can clearly see how a reasonable person in her place might feel.
I can also feel for the officer, but next time he might check his photos before grabbing a congressman. Personally I think they need a better system for security, and that’s the only real clear response that should come out of this.
Comment by Ryan Neat — April 4, 2006 @ 6:15 pm
Well, we agree on that. System is broken and no one can agree nhow to fix it, so it stays broken. That is my problem with the neocons running the show. As long as it’s the old way – leave it alone. Never mind it isn’t working…
I could go on and on about how this administration in partnership with the media have made us distrust one another so much that this type of conflict is becoming the norm rather than the exception… but I need to take a break to feed the critters. Including myself : ).
If I hadn’t said so – Ryan, it’s great having you back. Was boring without you.
Be back later…
April 4th, 2006 at 6:22 pmHow many hard left people want to be a cop? Thats not the type of job that attracts liberals, I would shove a flare gun up my ass and pull the trigger if that cop was a liberal Dem.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:23 pmFor Truth,
Be careful, that’s the same promise that Gary Ruppert made about the Libby indictment – and I haven’t seen him around in days ;)
April 4th, 2006 at 6:26 pmRyan,
I err on the side of caution when it comes to security “true statement”. I also feel it’s the job of an officer to do the same. Pretty much the only thing he is there for is to “mobilize and organize our Nation to secure the US homeland from terrorist attacks.” (Homeland security mission statement.
If someone slid in with a weapon, what argument is there for allowing that to happen? (Even a white guy who watches a congressman walk in everyday, grabs the same suit, briefcase, haircut and sticks his hand by his face on a cell phone?)
I think they need a better system for security, and that’s the only real clear response that should come out of this.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:26 pmI would agree with that.
Ryan “If the police officer tasked with protecting congress doesn’t even know what they look like, then he’s too stupid to be in that job – just like you.”
I’m a police officer? Hooray, time to start raking in the bribes.
#106 how about the congresspeople have a badge with a chip or magnetic strip?
How about the congress people have to go thru security like everyone else, from what I hear Byrd normally does, and it hasn’t seemed to affect his tenure negativly.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:26 pmUh, hello,
Cops are trained to believe everyone is up to no-good, and they feel everyone commits crimes, but just hasn’t been caught yet. Everyone is a suspect to a cop. You ever been involved with the police as a witness, or a person reporting a crime? they treat you like you are the perp.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:29 pm“I err on the side of caution when it comes to security “true statementâ€. I also feel it’s the job of an officer to do the same. Tundra”
And yet you defend a clearly untrained, and deficient police officer. My point is that that officer or their management is as much or more responsible for this than McKinney is.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:30 pm“I’m a police officer? Hooray, time to start raking in the bribes. squishypoop”
No, but you are a generally inept troll… I didn’t expect you’d be able to diagram the sentence well enough to perceive the meaning – no surprise.
“How about the congress people have to go thru security like everyone else, from what I hear Byrd normally does, and it hasn’t seemed to affect his tenure negativly. Comment by squishypoop”
No problem – because the current system is just stupid unless the police officers KNOW all of the congress people. And when new congress people show up, there’s too much of a ripe opportunity for problems.
The republicans are in charge of government, I wonder which MORON decided that skirting the security was a good plan? Delay?
April 4th, 2006 at 6:33 pm111,
I agree, how about they go through security like everyone else. I was giving ideas short of that, but that sounds like an even better idea. By the way, I wonder which congressperson(s) became so inconvienienced, that now there is this system in place.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:33 pmDang it Ryan you barely beat me to it, “Who came up with this idea of waiving congressmen by in the first place?”
April 4th, 2006 at 6:35 pmSquishy Poop,
Why are you so stupid as to proclaim you are a police officer, maybe you like the negative attention? Not surprised, I bet your upbringing has somthing to do with it. You have any power and control issues? Otherwise who would want a job paying 28,000 a year to go out on calls to complete stangers houses, deal with the underbelly of society, and each day wonder if someone will shoot you, or if you will make it home after work. How are you cleaning up society? Arresting the same people over and over so they can go through a revolving door, and get arrested again. The pay figure is from Arizona. I feel the majority of cops, maybe 75% are in it for the power and control, some like it so they can carry a gun and shoot people legally. Most are insecure hardasses dealing with their psychological issues.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:43 pmOh yeah, and there is also that percentage of cops who were bullied as children, and are gonna get revenge.
April 4th, 2006 at 6:50 pmWow, For Truth, that’s harsh.
I take it you don’t like police officers much huh?
April 4th, 2006 at 6:57 pmEveryone must become a consumer.
April 4th, 2006 at 7:05 pmJudd, this piece on Norton is why you’ve become one of my favorite sites. Bringing lies to our attention in a clear, concise and indisputable way. With…what are those things called? Oh, that’s right. Facts.
Keep up the great work!
April 4th, 2006 at 7:16 pm#114 The republicans are in charge of government, I wonder which MORON decided that skirting the security was a good plan? Delay?
“McKinney said a Capitol Hill police officer stopped her from bypassing a metal detector during her first term in 1993.”
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/mckinney331
Seems they’ve been doing it since the Dems had the congress, but didn’t find anything saying when it started, so the perk could go back even further to a point when the Republicans had one or both sections of congress.
April 4th, 2006 at 7:28 pm“Seems they’ve been doing it since the Dems had the congress, but didn’t find anything saying when it started, so the perk could go back even further to a point when the Republicans had one or both sections of congress. Comment by squishypoop”
So you’re saying that the republicans have a pre 911 mindset, and were once again inept with security matters. I can agree with that.
April 4th, 2006 at 7:32 pmhttp://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/04/mckinney.scuffle/index.html
House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer told CNN Tuesday that officers “can’t possibly know every member.”
“every one of us who visits the Capitol or any of the office buildings … have a responsibility to fully cooperate with every member of the Capitol Police.”
Yeah you would expect him to be wrong as usual.
McKinney has previously complained of not being recognized as a member of Congress, both on Capitol Hill and at the White House. In 1998, she demanded and received an apology from the Clinton administration after White House guards stopped her.
April 4th, 2006 at 8:27 pmYuppers, I would have expected Clinton to have Racist/inept/untrained security guards too.
“Yuppers, I would have expected Clinton to have Racist/inept/untrained security guards too. Comment by Tundra ”
Not really – they apologized. The guard may have been racist, but unlike this administration – the administration wasn’t. George proves you can take a cracker off his pig farm, but you can’t stop him from being a pig farmer.
April 4th, 2006 at 8:33 pm“House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer told CNN Tuesday that officers “can’t possibly know every member.â€
Yeah you would expect him to be wrong as usual. Tundra”
And as I pointed out before, why is the ‘PIN’ a valid form of ID, if this is the case? What kind of MORONS in the reichwing are running security there? All this does is prove that republicans are weak on security…
April 4th, 2006 at 8:35 pmAnd yet you defend a clearly untrained, and deficient police officer. My point is that that officer or their management is as much or more responsible for this than McKinney is.
the administration wasn’t.??
Wow, your calling that guard a racist? Do you know his/her name? His/her background? Anything except the fact he had the audacity to stop an African American woman from entering the white house?
April 4th, 2006 at 8:37 pm“Wow, your calling that guard a racist? Do you know his/her name? His/her background? Anything except the fact he had the audacity to stop an African American woman from entering the white house? Comment by Tundra”
I’m saying there’s as good of a chance as not. Perhaps the guard is just inept, but if you believe that racism is an ‘unlikely’ thing, I’m not sure what part of america you grew up in – but it’s not typical.
April 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pmSo Tundra,
Why aren’t you talking about the Democratic plans for improving security? We already know based on the McKinney event that republicans have no ideas, no agenda, and can’t figure out that a PIN is a bad security plan. Why don’t you respond about the democratic security plan? Isn’t that a more useful discussion? Or does discussing REAL agenda, policies and plan just not interest you?
April 4th, 2006 at 8:54 pmThis thread was supposed to be about Gale Norton, however several of you let Culture of Disruption do just that: switch the dialogue to one about Cynthia McKinney, with whom he/she/it seems to be obsessed. I understand why this happened. But let’s be careful from now on not to let reichwing trolls change the topic of discussion for their own purposes.
April 4th, 2006 at 9:53 pmsaw an article not so long ago that showed some zealot teaching elementray school children to respond to the Big Bang Theory with disrespectful mocking and derision. I’ve gotten some myself. And then people will wonder why there are no Einsteins anymore. Even Stephen Hawking has to talk about God in his books for people to read them. Pathetic.
Comment by unbelievable
Hawkins talks about God because he’s discovered through mathematics that God must exist. Einstein believed in a Creator of the Universe though understandably he could not come to terms with his Jewish religious roots. The big bang is a theory and like all theories it will go the way of the dodo or be proven as fact. In this case the dodo is wining.
It must be a bummer to have 4th graders outwit you.
April 4th, 2006 at 10:39 pmAlways about the Corporate Welfare and never about the people. Did you know that Some of these Oil conglomerates are still accepting money from the government, even though they have record profits?
The woman abviously puts the dollar before the person. How so very “Conservative” of her to preserve society for what amounts, some say, to be 2 years worth of oil.
April 4th, 2006 at 10:55 pmJewish religious roots.
Man was a MAN before any religion what you say is backwards and cannot be.
April 4th, 2006 at 10:58 pmIRI which came first “thought’ or ‘thoughts’ of naming a religion?
Im about sick of people acting as if the word “Jewish” denotes some special lineage. I don’t see it in the any of the Cultures or Races that gives any one “RELIGION” Claim to be GOD’s People.
We are ALL people of this Earth.
Now if you would like to get “Technical” it was the “JEWS” whatever that Group of Humans called themself actually the “GHU” was just a State, or a Province of an Empire.
GHUS were turko Finn mongolians. It was the Khazar Empire that Were the “Barbaric” ones. It Was YOUR Caesar Empire Capitalists that Killed “GHU”[Jesus] the “Christian” [Messiah]
You are barking up a tree that does not exist.
April 4th, 2006 at 11:07 pmPerhaps IRI you KNOW your “GOD”, and that HE your “GHU” is your Messiah.
I agree that their is a Higher Power, and that is my God,my belief, if you Will, My “GHU”, if that upsets you, well too bad, you shouldn’t judge, Now Please Stop pushing your “GHU” religion upon me because I dont push mine on you. Thank You.
April 4th, 2006 at 11:13 pmThis woman was no friend to the planet.
She was only a friend to corporate interests and the Bush cabal.
Goodbye and good riddance.
April 4th, 2006 at 11:18 pmJewish religious roots.
Man was a MAN before any religion what you say is backwards and cannot be.
Comment by Typical RePIGlican
Man was man in the mind of his Creator first. God said, “I knew you before the foundation of the Earth.” IOW, God knew you before He knew the ground you stood on. That’s what God’s Word says anyway. Take it or leave it.
April 4th, 2006 at 11:26 pmIRI which came first “thought’ or ‘thoughts’ of naming a religion?
Im about sick of people acting as if the word “Jewish†denotes some special lineage. I don’t see it in the any of the Cultures or Races that gives any one “RELIGION†Claim to be GOD’s People.
[ snip total nonsense gleaned from neo-Nazi and Anglo supremist websites]
We are ALL people of this Earth.
]
You are barking up a tree that does not exist.
Comment by Typical RePIGlican
I’m only half interested in your bullshit. That’s probably because the bourbon and Prozac has kicked in but let me just say this about that….A cursory study of the Old Testament will agree with the Apostles statement that the Jews were chosen by God to be an example to the rest of us. It is so. There is nothing that we have gone through, wars, pestilence, times of apostasy, times of reconciliation and today, times of hopelessness; none of this is new. There is no greater study of humanity than God’s ongoing dealings with Israel. In fact you can not understand the New Testament, Jesus or the future without a through understanding of the way The Creator of the Universe dealt with those He called His people. Yes, God has favorites. May He be merciful that you not be counted among them. It could be that the only reason for you existence is to be a warning to others. You can’t imagine how much that sucks brother.
April 4th, 2006 at 11:39 pmHawkins talks about God because he’s discovered through mathematics that God must exist.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I
Mathematics is a theory too, Einstein.
O.R.
April 5th, 2006 at 8:42 amREP. DELAY: ‘Cynthia McKinney is a racist. She has a long history of racism. Everything is racism with her. This is incredible arrogance, and — that sometimes hits these members of congress, but especially Cynthia McKinney’…
From Drudge Report
Since the topic has already been mentioned….I think DeLay is right about McKinny, she is a race whore and the poor guard? Hell, did you see Cindy’s new hair-do? She looks just like Buckwheat, hair all ratted out….She’s lucky she didn’t get bitch slapped by that officer after she assulted him. Funny stuff.
April 5th, 2006 at 9:45 amIt must be a bummer to have 4th graders outwit you.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 4, 2006 @ 10:39 pm
I wouldn’t know. You’ve yet to win a debate with me.
April 5th, 2006 at 6:47 pmHawkins talks about God because he’s discovered through mathematics that God must exist.
You know this from reading his books, or from someone else telling you? If you’ve read just one of his books, I’m interested in your thoughts. Otherwise, spare me. I have no interest in being lectured by someone with no first hand knowledge on the subject.
Einstein believed in a Creator of the Universe though understandably he could not come to terms with his Jewish religious roots.
Again, you know this how?
The big bang is a theory and like all theories it will go the way of the dodo or be proven as fact. In this case the dodo is wining.
I have to agree with Ryan. There’s more proof of the Big Bang being real than of God. Billions and billion of years of evolution are visable and tangible. For God, it’s a resounding nothing. I’ve told you that if you can prove God, I would apologize. You think I’m being a smart ass. I assure you, I have always been serious. Give me proof and then these arguments will be unnecessary.
It must be a bummer to have 4th graders outwit you.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 4, 2006 @ 10:39 pm
Since when is the 4th grade in high school?
April 5th, 2006 at 7:10 pmMathematics is a theory too, Einstein.
Comment by occum’s razor — April 5, 2006 @ 8:42 am
Don’t forget gravity is also a theory!
April 5th, 2006 at 7:12 pmMan was a MAN before any religion what you say is backwards and cannot be.
Comment by Typical RePIGlican — April 4, 2006 @ 10:58 pm
Actually, man was woman before he was a man. It’s the real reason why men have useless nipples and mammorary glands, and women have no unfunctioning male appendages of any sort ; ).
After all, the X chromosome is the basis of all life. Not the Y.
April 5th, 2006 at 7:16 pmGale Norton should be fully prosecuted and imprisoned at hard labour for life, along with all of her kind: fellow eco-terrorists / political whores / ideological nazis / treasonous reichwing fascists.
April 6th, 2006 at 5:36 amActually, man was woman before he was a man. It’s the real reason why men have useless nipples and mammorary glands
Comment by unbelievable
Yeah, you and Zena wish.
April 7th, 2006 at 9:29 pmYeah, you and Zena wish.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 7, 2006 @ 9:29 pm
If Zena is your nickname for Science, then, it’s not a wish. It’s observable reality. And it doesn’t preclude God, just the desert dewller’s fairytale versions of him.
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