Hersh: Joint Chiefs Opposed to Iran Nuke Attack, Members of Congress Gung-Ho
Hersh: Joint Chiefs Opposed to Iran Nuke Attack, Members of Congress Gung-Ho
A new report by Seymour Hersh finds that senior Bush administration officials are developing plans for a massive attack on Iran which could include nuclear weapons. Hersh points out that the Joint Chiefs of Staff — a panel of the highest-ranking military officials from each branch of the U.S. armed services — are strenuously opposed to the plan, so much so that some have threatened to resign if it goes forward:
[A] Pentagon adviser on the war on terror…confirmed that some senior officers and officials were considering resigning over the issue. “There are very strong sentiments within the military against brandishing nuclear weapons against other countries,†the adviser told me. “This goes to high levels.†The matter may soon reach a decisive point, he said, because the Joint Chiefs had agreed to give President Bush a formal recommendation stating that they are strongly opposed to considering the nuclear option for Iran. “The internal debate on this has hardened in recent weeks,†the adviser said. “And, if senior Pentagon officers express their opposition to the use of offensive nuclear weapons, then it will never happen.â€
But such advice hasn’t fazed the ultra-hawkish members of Congress, who now refuse to accept any plan that doesn’t include the use of nuclear weapons:
A senior member of the House Appropriations Committee…said that no one in the meetings “is really objecting†to the talk of war. “The people they’re briefing are the same ones who led the charge on Iraq. At most, questions are raised: How are you going to hit all the sites at once? How are you going to get deep enough?†(Iran is building facilities underground.) “There’s no pressure from Congress†not to take military action, the House member added. “The only political pressure is from the guys who want to do it.†… “These politicians don’t have a clue, and whenever anybody tries to get it outâ€â€”remove the nuclear option—“they’re shouted down.â€
While senior military officials oppose the use of nuclear weapons, Hersh’s sources add that the idea “has gained support from the Defense Science Board, an advisory panel whose members are selected by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.”
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Please tell me, TP, that this is a belated April Fool’s joke…
April 8th, 2006 at 2:05 pmSince when has Bush ever listened to his military advisers anyway? He says we’ll pull troops out of Iraq when the commanders on the ground ask him to, but then he fires those advisers who question our presence in Iraq. And, 70% of the troops think we should pull out before the end of 2006. As usual, Bush surrounds himself with incompetent, neocon (is that redundant?) advisers and only listens to their advise.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:05 pmI’m absolutely speechless!
April 8th, 2006 at 2:06 pmOh my Lord in Heaven. He’s gonna do it. THe damn fool has gone Messianic on us and he intends to start WWIII. Somebody has to do something before tens of thousands more innocent Americans, as well as hundreds of thousands of innocent Iranians, are killed.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:07 pmThank you. See also http://dearkitty.modblog.com/core.mod?show=blogview&blog_id=817522
April 8th, 2006 at 2:16 pmRemember the old hypothetical..”If you knew Hitler would become the man he did, what would you do and what would you be obligated to do?” What do we do???
April 8th, 2006 at 2:18 pmANd there’s nothing any one can do. THe MSM will see this as a chance to up ratings. ANd the Dems are so scared of being soft that they will support this madness with no questions asked.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:19 pmThis is going to happen, what ever this evil bunch want they get. The only thing’s we can do are as follows. Massive letters to editors, call in talk shows, write to all the representatives, call them on the phones and then prepair and march in huge numbers quickly……All over the country start getting organized now…..The nut jobs could do this war tomorrow……Blessings
April 8th, 2006 at 2:19 pmIran is not the only ones with crazies in their government.
What is so freakin hard about putting things on the line in PUBLIC. Put the Iranians on the spot and let them take their best shots at us? What are we afraid they may look like they got a point about their revolution in the 1970s against our puppet government we set up in Iran?
What? They cannot be right about anything ever? Even if we have to NUKE them to keep them from having a point?
WAR is drastic! I have seen ZERO nonWAR drastic actions taken by these warmongers in Washington. Is BUSH to much of a pussy to sit down and talk face to face with Iranian leaders? Is Chenney’s god complex too big for him to round up the rightwingers and make them sit down with the Iranians at the U.N. like America did with Russia ON TV for the whole world to see about Cubas missles?
They act like War hungry monsters that not only do not want to try any other drastic actions they want to PREVENT any other drastic actions because they want to see MUSHROOM CLOUDS….
AND WHERE IS THIS COUNTRY’S CHRISTIANS? PROLIFE?
IS A NUKE PROLIFE?
IS IT?
April 8th, 2006 at 2:23 pmI think the American people should find a way to enact a law that any Congress person who votes to go to war with Iran must send his/her children and grandchildren for the first two years. NO EXCEPTIONS. All members of the Administration including the President, VP, and the Cabinet Secretaries shall comply with this law also. NO EXCEPTIONS.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:25 pmHow many more people have to die at the hands of this right wing insanity? We are being set up for war again and our congress is allowing it? This is insane.
The pentagon have to have the courage to do the right thing. Bombing Iran is the wrong way. It is wrong. Blix is saying Iran is five years away from a bomb. Doesn’t that give us time to use diplomacy?
NO MORE WAR. NO MORE WAR. NO MORE WAR.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:25 pmThis story earlier in the week was a pretty clear indicator that this administration is hell bent on war: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-nuke6apr06,0,5989419.story?coll=la-home-headlines
April 8th, 2006 at 2:27 pmF – U – C – K – E – D
Adn while we are over in Iran, we are wide open for attack. Any of these non-military government people think of that?
April 8th, 2006 at 2:29 pmHow did Build #7 at the WTC complex get wired for demolitions weeks before 911? And WHY?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603&q=911
April 8th, 2006 at 2:32 pmArmageddon. Now I just have to decide which of us is good and which is evil.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:40 pmAre we Surprised?
http://www.zippyvideos.com/1532675064284236/band_of_brothers_long_version/*davidnyc”>CLEAN HOUSE 2006
April 8th, 2006 at 2:41 pmIf the factual calculation is such that Iran is becoming a legitimate threat, logic would conclude that Israel has a larger interest in seeing Iran’s fledgling nuclear program dismantled (by bombings). In fact, Israel has a demonstrated history of resolving such situations.
If this administration goes forward with a US assault on Iran rather than to consult with and support Israel (as a silent & out of sight ally) in making any necessary strikes, then I would assert that it would be reasonable to conclude that the decision to initiate a US assault was simply a political calculation to reverse the ever sliding support for the President and his party.
http://www.thoughttheater.com
April 8th, 2006 at 2:45 pmAre we SURPRISED?
CLEAN HOUSE 2006
April 8th, 2006 at 2:45 pmI smell a rat. What do you call it when your own intelligence service (CIA) plants stories that are then picked up as facts by the administration and used to justify war? So much so that they refuse to believe it was planted in the first place?
I’m guessing that the CIA is responsible for putting out so much fake propaganda, just like they did with The SALT Syndrome, that members of Congress and the administration actually believe it.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:48 pmRemember the old hypothetical..â€If you knew Hitler would become the man he did, what would you do and what would you be obligated to do?†What do we do???
Comment by Vance — April 8, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
Do be careful what you say if I remember the hypothetical correctly.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:48 pmIt can’t all be blamed on one individual, or even a few. We have alot of sick bastards running this country.
H_O_L_Y C_R_A_P !
–
April 8th, 2006 at 2:56 pmhttp://griperblade.blogspot.com – grumblings from the heartland
Rather than resigning, I would so much prefer to see the Joint Cheifs of Staff simply refuse to accept, carry out or pass on the order to bomb Iraq (particularly if it involves nukes). That would force Bush to relieve them of command PUBLICLY and just might wake up a few folks out there. At least one can hope it might…
April 8th, 2006 at 3:02 pmI posted this on the other, related, thread — but I felt it’s worth putting here as well (with some additional edits):
I want to propose something a little more radical: perhaps this is a bluff.
If you accept the NEO-con view of geopolitics in the Middle East, the US has no power because everyone thinks the US is a bunch of pussies who can’t accept a single dead soldier. But if it’s own citizens — you and I, folks — are freaking out this much, have this little faith that our leaders are rational, are SO convinced that Bush might just do something this fucking insane… maybe the Iranians will believe it as well?
Look, if this was a movie then only a handful of people would know this was a bluff. They wouldn’t even let the Chiefs of Staff know. Rumsfield might not even know. It needs to be that convincing.
Perhaps the war against Iraq was never meant to be anything other than proof positive that if George seems hell-bent, then it will happen. Perhaps the plan to reform the Middle East and the US threat was always the goal, that Iraq was simply a step to reform the perception that the US is incapable of doing crazy shit. “Speak softly and carry a big stick.” We’ve spoken softly for a long time — maybe 9/11 was a call to wave the stick a little. Maybe now we can return to (effectively) speaking softly again? Maybe this confrontation of Iraq will be the test of that.
I don’t know. I don’t want to believe things are so insane that such a scenario could exist, but … but it’s another way to look at it, and one I find compelling. That said, protesting in the streets serves our interest (in opposition) and the administrations (in creating a convincing bluff) — it’s a no lose response.
April 8th, 2006 at 3:06 pmkriselda jarnsaxa
Actually, legally speaking, the Joint Chiefs, as well as every soldier supbordinate to them, have a right to refuse unlawful orders. A crime against humanity of the scale that Bush is wanting to pull off, would class as an unlawful order. The army, in essence, could turn around and say “No.”
My reasoning? Mai Lai and the Nuremberg trials. Both showed that a soldier who committed a war crime and was “Only following orders” was liable for the said crime. Therefore, a soldier who feels his or her orders to be unlawful not only has the right to say no, but also the obligation to say no.
April 8th, 2006 at 3:19 pmIf the Joint Chiefs were to resign or be fired, I’m sure Bush could find some willing trigger puller to launch the nukes. General Boykin comes to mind since he belongs to the End Times/Rapture crowd.
April 8th, 2006 at 3:23 pmSir, NO Sir!
April 8th, 2006 at 3:33 pmThe Romans gave Attila the Hun a million dollars in gold coin each year just to keep him from attacking the outskirts of the Roman Empire.
Maybe the Iranians could give the US government a billion barrels of oil each year to keep the US from attacking them.
“Stop quoting laws, we have swords.” – Roman General Sulla
April 8th, 2006 at 3:37 pmBush offers aid to Iran. what a sadist
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/01/earthquake.iran/index.html
April 8th, 2006 at 3:40 pmhttp://www.avengingangels.org
April 8th, 2006 at 3:42 pmhttp://www.avengingangels.org/images/AA%20MIsc./VR_WP_400.gif>
Iran — maybe not too kind to women (women’s rights) but wants to be kind to Momma Earth, moreso than Bush!!
Environment – international agreements:
Definition Field Listing
party to: Biodiversity, Climate Change, Desertification, Endangered Species, Hazardous Wastes, Marine Dumping, Ozone Layer Protection, Wetlands
signed, but not ratified: Environmental Modification, Law of the Sea, Marine Life Conservation
from the CIA factbook.
April 8th, 2006 at 3:45 pmThis ain’t even fucking funny anymore.
This sick bastard just because he knows his time is drawing neigh is going to fucking start World War III. I don’t care WHAT your political affiliation is.. It’s time to realize the man in the White House, (as someone else said), “has gone messianic”. It’s David Koresh and Jim Jones all over again only this time their going to bring Armageddon to the entire country and planet. They are sick and they will do what they feel needs to be done to bring this all about just as Jones and Koresh did UNLESS something is done to stop this insanity. Americans need to wake up if it’s not too late!
Like they have always done they will just do it and worry about the consequences after. Consequences being an outraged world against the USA and smoldering United States cities… Vladimier Puttin will not stand still for this and remember, he STILL controls the second largest collection of nukes in the world, many of which are STILL pointed at US cities and ready to go.
They talk about bombing and nuking a country so the populace will rise up in revolt against the leadership? May be a good idea… I wonder who we can get to bomb us?
April 8th, 2006 at 3:49 pmThe fact that senior members of the military are against this is a saving grace.
It is imperative, however, that their concerns are not underplayed in the conventional media again.
I say “again” because this is not the first time that senior military officials have pointed out – with great accuracy – the very serious problems likely to occur as a result of G.W. Bush’s military adventures.
John Shalikashvili – the former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff after Colin Powell – switched from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party as a result of the Iraq War. He thought that the war was poorly prepared and militarily unnecessary.
Speaking at the 2004 Democratic Convention – he introduced himself as ” an old soldier and a New Democrat ”
Tony McPeak – a Vietnam veteran and the Air Force Chief of Staff during Desert Storm – endorsed George Bush in 2000. As a result of the Iraq War, however, he also left the Republican party and not only joined the Democrats, but also worked on the Kerry campaign.
It was absolutely stunning to me that this got virtually no mention by the Tim Russerts, the George Stephanopoulos’, the David Brooks’, the George Wills, the Richard Cohens, the Bob Schieffers, the Chris Matthews, the Joe Scarboroughs, the so-called ‘best of brighest’ of the political media. How could they not ask ( repeatedly ) a very basic and fundamental question:
” If men who have achieved very senior levels in the U.S. Military and have also supported the Republican party all of their lives are DEFECTING to the Democrats – Could this be a sign that there are some very serious problems with the Bush administration’s Iraq War plans? ”
If asked – the answer would have been a very definite “YES, there are very serious problems.”
Some who had achieved senior levels in the U.S. military and are associated with the Republican Party have not defected – but they did voice serious concerns about the Iraq War.
General Schwarzkopf – also a Republican – has been critical of Rumsfeld. Search “Desert Caution” “Washington Post” “Thomas E. Ricks” and read it yourself.
Former Joint Chief of Staff Chairman Colin Powell has not defected away from the Republican Party. But, as Secretary of State, he did make the ” You break it, you own it ” comment regarding Iraq. This advice was, of course, ignored. Unfortunately, Powell’s concern appears to be bearing out.
So hear we are again. Bush and his group are reported to be gearing up for another misguided military adventure. More reasonable people in the military are in disagreement. This should be FRONT PAGE NEWS – particularly if nukes are to be involved.
By copy to John Podesta – if you know any of these political media types like Russert or George Will or Chris Matthews – could you please ask them to make the nation aware of this schism between the Executive Office and the U.S. Military? They need to bring it up and pursue this issue with the same energy and intensity that they pursued the Clinton-Lewinski nonsense.
I think they would have to agree that this is far more important.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:01 pmAll I can say is if we’re asking ourselves, what can we do, how can we stop this, look at the French. Writing letters to the editor or calling writing to your Congressional representatives will accomplish absolutely zilch, and you’d better believe it. The French youth have gone completely up in arms on a piece of legislation that has to do with JOBS for chrissakes. Are we so pathetic in America that we will never lift a finger to oppose the abuses of our government, except if it’s to use that finger to dial the phone number of a senator who probably won’t do much to oppose the administration anyway? Wake up people!
April 8th, 2006 at 4:02 pmThis is the type of thing that comes about when a spoiled but incompetent little rich boy, with no prayer of filling daddy’s footprints, is nonetheless given the keys to the kingdom. His tyrannical side comes out.
Face it, you piece of shit George, no matter how many innocent people you slaughter, your dick hard will never be as big as daddy’s.
Shit, it’ll never be as big as Mommy’s.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:14 pmThe simple truth is GW Bush and his cronies are traitors! They are legally guilty of treason and we need someone to run for office with the balls to call them on it. Not sit back and cringe at the idea that GW and his butt lickers will call them soft on terror. The video of Osama Bin Laden confessing to the WTC bombings has been proven a fake, but you don’t see anything about that on the tv news. Unless of course Osama darkened his skin, gave up his religion allowing him to wear gold jewelry, and became right handed for this and only this video! I can’t say I’m surprised that some in the CIA are involved in this treason since GW’s daddy did head it for a while if I recall correctly. But I am shocked that no-one else in the agency seems to have any courage or honour at all…there has to be some who know the truth that is so plainly visible to the rest of the world. And how about our lovely churches?!? Have they all fallen so far into greed and corruption that they will continue to insist on following Bush even though it’s quite plain he is the closest thing to an Anti-Christ since Adolf Hitler?
April 8th, 2006 at 4:15 pmThis is beginning to look more and more like a Groundhog Day administration… only with a tragic ending. And Dubya keeps driving himself and the groundhog (that would be us) off the cliff while expecting a different result. Bush doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes, his “thousands of tactical errors”, because he refuses to admit that he’s ever made mistakes and if any mistakes were made, well, that’s the fault of other people, like the press, Bill Clinton, the Democrats, Al Gore. Anybody but him.
The scary thing is, despite how much this is beginning to resemble Iraq, Bush may actually be able to buy back soem lost support by touting Ahmadinejad’s obvious and easily-verifiable terrorist connections… something Saddam did not have. In short, invading Iran would seem more justified and plausible.
But let’s also not forget a very important part in Hersh’s article, in which he talks about A. Q. Khan, who’s looking and sounding more and more like Chalabi and Curveball everytime he opens his mouth. And, as with Curveball, the intelligence community is growing increasingly skeptical of him. And, and as with Curveball, when the intelligence community tells the WH about these new revelations and inconsistencies, the WH responds with, “We’ve got enough.”
The playbook never varies, which only makes their madness all the more identifiable.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:27 pmDo you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, {90} years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow {terrorist} infiltration, {terrorist} indoctrination, {terrorist} subversion and the international {terrorist} conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:30 pmIn recent weeks, the President has quietly initiated a series of talks on plans for Iran with a few key senators and members of Congress, including at least one Democrat.
What are the odds that this is W’s favorite Democrat, drum roll please, Joe Lieberman?
April 8th, 2006 at 4:30 pmAlexandra
Just the impression we get from the outside, of how America works. It could be wrong, it could be based off of false media, but this is just how we see it.
It starts with Barney. That is the root of your problems with your youth today. When they were small, and highly impressionable, they were sat down in front of the TV and pointed towards the purple dinosaur.
And then, a few years later – Doctor Feel Good For the Kiddies. If they are naughty, they get put on a super-meta-amphetamine to keep them quiet. There are apparently even American teachers who refuse to teach students who are not on drugs (they are called, Particularly Shit Teachers, or PST.) Is it any wonder that the odd occassional child is going postal?
Finally, they get to being teenagers. Then they get to listen to 50 cent, watch Jack Bauer off yet another terrorist, and devolve down into a uniform clique which promises individuality. Goth, punk, wigger, nigga, wap, emo, etc… they are all the same basic shit, just different packaging.
Finally, they hit being adults. Compliant, pliable adults, who don’t protest because they can barely get the interest together to vote, never mind fight the power.
Thus you get the Republican party, and this current atmosphere of strained apathy. Americans are starting, just slowly starting to care, but throughout their entire lives they have learned, and been conditioned not to, because caring ends in misbehaviour, so they don’t know how to deal with it. I just hope America’s youth learns how before Bush starts something that ends the human species.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:32 pm#32 – terrific post. You could have included Barry McCaffrey, one of the army’s great field commanders of recent years, and Larry Wilkerson, who kind of fits in the Powell mould of latter-day dissenters.
Let’s hope the brass speak out. My God we need them to.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:38 pmDoes anyone remember “Operation Northwood”.I wouldn’t put anything pass this (fascist)regime.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:49 pmSorry, Bruce Gorton. The drug-addled, uneducated, high school dropout, 50 Cent listening demographic is mostly Democrats.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:57 pmProudleftist,
The fascists (liberals, Democrats) aren’t in power, thankfully.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:58 pmAll members of congress who want war, report to Iran…as for the rest, we repeat the past slogan…HELL NO,WE WON’T GO.
April 8th, 2006 at 4:59 pmIn the latest issue of the American Conservative even Pat Buchanan calls for Bush’s Impeachment.
He must be stopped. he must either resign or be removed from office immediately!
April 8th, 2006 at 5:04 pmMy heart is breaking! Can he do this without Congress approval? I am getting together my message to send to every Senator and Congressperson in D.C. Then I guess I need to get some letters off to newspapers. This is why they were testing that nuke in Nevada last month.
If this happens we are entering World War II. Every country that has nukes will attack their enemy and we all will be affected by the nuclear fallout as it passes through our atmoshpere. Please tell me this is a bad dream!
April 8th, 2006 at 5:20 pmBarbara;Thank you for your spawn.
April 8th, 2006 at 5:21 pmSorry, Bruce Gorton. The drug-addled, uneducated, high school dropout, 50 Cent listening demographic is mostly Democrats.
Comment by Pro-Democracy
Apparently you do not live in the real world. Minus the few religious right people that actually never get cable TV and dont do anything other than work and church the rest of the country is exactly as Bruce Gorton describes. There are many people on the left that do not believe in drugging their children and believe in humanity so we do not participate in this peer pressure society. But that is exactly the type of society that conservatives thrive in… fake images of goodness so they dont stand out as one of the weird people…
April 8th, 2006 at 5:25 pmEvery foolish warmongering member of the House and Senate who wants to drop nukes on Iran must send all their children to fight on the front lines of this new war! They have no right to force average working Americans sons and daughters to die for them! Americans must tell all those who work for Israel in the Congress to pack their bags and leave the United States forever because they are traitors! Shame on them!
April 8th, 2006 at 5:29 pmMr Gorton,Nuremberg and My Lai were hardly similar. Nuremberg proved that for the vast majority of “good” Germans,just following orders was exactly what they were doing. The trials were show trials,the German leadership was executed for the most part. My Lai showed the underlings would be punished,not the leadership. Sorry,I know it’s a minor point but still.
Mr Gibson seeks to paint an entire class of Americans as robots. Of course,he has no more than his own wild imaginings which he deems sufficient. I’m afraid his depictions are as wrong as the one that would have him described as a charter member of the moonbat left.
The president’s obsession is what is on display here,though,not the citizenry. GWB’s evangelicalism is what led me to vote for Kerry in 04,probably the weakest Democratic candidate since McGovern. Yet,more Americans voted for Kerry than any other candidate except one. So, Gerald,you may be well served to cool the rhetorical attacks against what a normal person would see as a pool of potential allies,rather than enemies. Unless you really are a moonbat,in which case your evangelical obsession is just a mirror image of the president’s.
April 8th, 2006 at 5:54 pmI have a new post up about the proposed annexation of Iran. Fast and loose impressions, granted, but I wanted to among the first to weigh in.
April 8th, 2006 at 5:56 pmEvery member of Congress who desires war on Iran must be outed to the nation! Here is a partial list of some who are for war on the Democratic side: Sen. Joe Lieberman, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Joe Biden, Sen. John Kerry, and Rep. Nancy Pelosi! About half the Democrat Senators are controlled by Israel and half of the Dem. Reps too! All the Republican Senators are for war on Iran and about 3/4 of the GOP Reps as well!
We are being betrayed by the Congress and the war on Iran will ignite global nuclear WWIII!
April 8th, 2006 at 5:59 pmJust one thing; so Bush wants to bomb Iran with nuclear weapons. Not that the administration has done anything particularly bright or logical in its Middle East policy so far, so why would they surprise us now, but nuclear bombing = nuclear fallout. So all our “allies” in the region would theoretically suffer too, wouldn’t they? And how would the US or anyone else be able to access the oil if the region becomes radioactive? I mean, conventional weapons bombings I can see happening, but is even the Bush administration so dumb that they would use NUKES?
April 8th, 2006 at 6:07 pmTo the contrary, fascism is a left-wing ideology.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:21 pmA] Pentagon adviser on the war on terror…confirmed that some senior officers and officials were considering resigning over the issue. “There are very strong sentiments within the military against brandishing nuclear weapons against other countries,†the adviser told me.
The Iranian clergy and military have no such reservations. Get those brass and gold braid covered pussies out of there and hire some men who are willing to do the job. And by the way, before a shot is fired against Iran, declare war so we can imprison the leftwingfucktards that are sure to work against our swift victory.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:23 pmI have been posting relentlessly over the past year that the plans are already on the table and Bush will indeed go to war with Iran, however, my postings never got a murmur.
The plan is to have Israel bomb Iran using their nuclear weapons.
Iran will retaliate against Israel and since the US has a defense pact with Israel, we will enter the fray thru that door. No need for congress, no need for anything except the shrubs desire to go to war, again.
The generals will not be against this because they realize the importance of the pact with Israel, which is not to our advantage in any shape, form or fashion. It was entered into years ago just for this sort of purpose.
This is all coming sooner than you think. One more dip in the polls, one more bad revelation against this ignorant and incompetent administration the heat and rhetoric will be turned up, with no proof shown, as usual. Nothing but lies, lies, lies.
This will happen just in time for the 2006 election. Bet on it.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:29 pmI-R-I you shut your damn mouth unless you intend to be the first soldier who is dropped into Iran! Most Americans are fed up with Bush and the dumb stooges in the Congress > you warmongering fruitcakes have to send your kids to die in this insane war on Iran!
April 8th, 2006 at 6:29 pmI can see happening, but is even the Bush administration so dumb that they would use NUKES?
Comment by Alexandra
Nuclear tipped bunker busters might be required to get way down deep where the Muslim headchoppers are building the nuclear bombs they are going to use to fry your skinny little ass. Small tactical nukes are just a tool.
I suggest you lead a group of protesters and picked the Iranian embassy here in the states and demand that they dismantle their offensive nuclear weapons program because you personally are opposed to killing millions of innocent Iranians to make sure the really bad ones that want to murder us all are dead.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:29 pmThere is no way in Hades that George Bush is going to be impeached by Congress. If he were a Democrat, he would have been impeached long ago. The arms industry would bomb Warshington if Bush were to be impeached.
That is just the way things are in murka, April of 2006. Besides, the cherry blossoms would wither and die if Warshington were to be bombed at this time of year.
Is there any way that the Joint Chiefs of Staff could change their minds? Threaten their lives!
April 8th, 2006 at 6:31 pmTo the contrary, fascism is a left-wing ideology.
Comment by Pro-Democracy — April 8, 2006 @ 6:21 pm
Dear too stupid to think read the dictionary definition of fascism, Mussolini was no progressive neither was Hitler, Franso in Spain. Fascists are reich wingnuts like youself numbnuts.
fas·cism Audio pronunciation of “Fascism” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.
1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
[Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, from Latin fascis, bundle.]fas·cistic (f-shstk) adj.
Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, “bundle, (political) group,†but also refers to the movement’s emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini’s group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:32 pmSorry Paul from Mexico. I just recently discovered this site, otherwise I might have been willing to take you seriously from earlier. What you say definitely does make a lot of sense. And especially after the Iranian president gave them a reason on a silver platter with that statement about wiping Israel off the map, everything just flows so perfectly from there that I feel numb from the horror of it.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:41 pmAs for IRI…since I refuse to address the ridiculous second part of your comment…how did you know that I am skinny?
the article misrepresents hersh’s point
“But such advice hasn’t fazed the ultra-hawkish members of Congress, who now refuse to accept any plan that doesn’t include the use of nuclear weapons”
It should more accurately be, “that doesn’t include the possible use of nuclear weapons.”
it’s an alarming article, but there’s no need to apply any further twists.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:43 pmClif,
fascism = leftism
Ron,
President Bush has not done anything to warrant impeachment. Defeating Democrats and defending America from terrorists are not crimes.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:52 pmThe groups now controlling the White House administration, as well as both houses of Congress have absolutely gone over the edge ! It is horrific for any President et al, to entertain the idea of using nuclear weapons.
April 8th, 2006 at 6:59 pmWe need to hold an immediate referendum and throw this current administration and wanna be leaders out of their offices/positions of power.This includes the President and members of congress that support this president.
It is astounding that the Christian conservatives have been able to gain and control both houses as well as the White House. As long as they do, congress cannot impeach, nor can they remove these amoral people. Censure of these demagogues who argue that torture, preemptive strikes, and outright lyinging and false innuendo to the American public, as well as warrantless NSA eavesdropping (for which there is no excuse since they could easily get warrants if the reason to eavesdrop was remotely reasonable request.) is also impossible. Impossible because the same party controls the presidency and white house administration and congress. These are not true Christians. Christianity is based on the fundamental tenets which state show mercy, do justice, and care for your fellow man. Never did Christ advocate bombing, torturing, or doing evil to another. A follower once said, “show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.”
We’ve got so many nukes, why not use ‘em? And if the AF accidently drops some on Syria, all the better!!
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
Bushism alert!!: LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
April 8th, 2006 at 7:02 pm“Clif,
fascism = leftism
Comment by Pro-Democracy”
Bahaha, WOW YOU’RE STUPID. COMMUNISM is leftist – FASCISM is rightist.
Were you always this stupid, or did you have to work at it?
April 8th, 2006 at 7:15 pmMizz Pro-Fascism is too dumb to look up a word in a dictionary before using it. Classic Retarded Reichwinger – if you don’t like the meaning of a word, PRETEND it means something different and stick your fingers in your ears like a 2 year old saying nah, nah, nah.
WOW REPUBLICANS ARE STUPID! No wonder they get worse grades in school!
April 8th, 2006 at 7:17 pmPro-Democracy, then it is ok if I tap your phone and computer, and gather information about what you have been doing the past five years, or not?
If it’s ok for George to do it, then I can too.
How about when the Bush Administration gave the Taliban some 45 million dollars back in May of 2001? Maybe not a crime, but not a wise move, weedhopper.
The cost of extracting a barrel of oil from an Iraqi oil field? About a buck and a half, maybe only one buck; the most inexpensive oil extraction costs anywhere on earth.
Seems as though the US government has dug a hole so deep, all that can be done is to wage war.
Winston learned to love Big Brother. Apparently, so have you.
April 8th, 2006 at 7:41 pmWe need to get the dems that bush has not talked to (AOL–anyone outside of Lieberman) and have them stand up en masse to demand answers to the charges from Hersh. This is dangerous stuff.
April 8th, 2006 at 7:55 pm“the leftwingfucktards that are sure to work against our swift victory.” – I-R-I
LOL, just like our swift vistory in Iraq? WTF is wrong with you people??
April 8th, 2006 at 8:01 pmdoes anyone need anymore information before deciding that the piece of garbage residing in the white house has to be removed as soon as possible?
April 8th, 2006 at 8:16 pmLets see just how many folks show up on the lines on Monday. Then lets build on this action an get it on. We don’t have any time left.
Pro-Dumbmorcracy-
Fascism = Leftism
You clowns have spent 40 years investing in the “lefties are commies” meme. Now you call us fascists? Wow, that’s a fast pivot. Guess that makes you a communist now.
With stupit people like you defending Bush, is it any wonder why this country is going down the drain?
Everyone should understand why this is under consideration. Iran is a decade away from a bomb…but Republicans are months away from losing the majority in Congress. This decision is based on pure political calculations and are meant to isolate us from every other country. Then the RW can start going after the “Enemies of the State”.
I hope the American voters who still are registered Republican will consider re-enrolling as Democrats. They will try to steal the election again and Republican registered voters will be the easiest votes to steal.
April 8th, 2006 at 8:37 pmThe president’s obsession is what is on display here,though,not the citizenry. GWB’s evangelicalism is what led me to vote for Kerry in 04,probably the weakest Democratic candidate since McGovern. Yet,more Americans voted for Kerry than any other candidate except one. So, Gerald,you may be well served to cool the rhetorical attacks against what a normal person would see as a pool of potential allies,rather than enemies. Unless you really are a moonbat,in which case your evangelical obsession is just a mirror image of the president’s.
Comment by TJM
I do not have to “imagine” anything. I grew up with the evangelicals. I was saved by the blood of Jesus. I was baptised. I saw people being “slain in the spirit” every wednesday/thursday/sunday or more in tent revivals. I saw and heard their twisted interpretation of the bible and Jesus. I saw their out right hate for the ideals of the US Contitution and Bill of Rights. I saw them proclaim over and over that the world was out to get them and they must prepare for BATTLE. I saw them talk up the wrath of god and twist Jesus into some kind of conduit for enabling that wrath to be realized in our life time through a war leading to armageddon in Israel. They openly admit to their glee to be in the “end of times”. War on a scale humanity has never seen (and the suffering that comes with it) is an acceptable outcome to anything that Bush does. This is not the operations of people from an age of reason as were Americas founding fathers. No, these are the ravings of shallow unintelligent people that hold hunches and feelings up on the same plane as scientific reality and lawful fact. Is every christian like this? No. But neither was every german a Nazi and neither was every southerner a KKK. But those that sit there and do nothing while the others are commiting evil in YOUR name are equally bad.
“The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict.”
April 8th, 2006 at 8:46 pmBy Bush’s standards I guess now Iran can launch a pre-emptive strike on us! Idiot!
April 8th, 2006 at 9:13 pmWhat people forget is that. like the AT&T NSA offices also pick up on Business Transactions, Trade Secrets, Executive Corporate Issues, Buy Sell Stock Information, Business Plans discussed, Political Plans Discussed.
Businesses Should be Worried about Bushs Datamining as Well.
April 8th, 2006 at 9:20 pmAlgorithyms can be created for those Intercepts as well.
To the contrary, fascism is a left-wing ideology.
So communisim is a right-wing ideology ?
War is peace
April 8th, 2006 at 9:48 pmlove is hate
Strength is ignorance
No, communism and fascism are very similar ideologies, both of the left.
April 8th, 2006 at 10:02 pmYou’re absolutely and unquestionably correct, Pro-Democracy. Stalingrad was a peaceful playground with Nazis and Communists sipping on lemonade and playing chess. It was all sunshine and lollipops.
They exchanged street addresses and became penpals when they all left for home.
April 8th, 2006 at 10:22 pmTo the contrary, fascism is a left-wing ideology.
So communisim is a right-wing ideology ?
War is peace
love is hate
Strength is ignorance
Comment by WMD
————————————————————————————————
Fascism and Nazism are far-right ideologies WMD.
Benito Mussolini said of Fascism it is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere.
While the evil scourge that is known as Communism is considered by those who sit on the right of the political spectrum, to inhabit that horrible place that they refer to as the ‘liberal left’.
So the Neocons are from the far-right then, go figure.
April 8th, 2006 at 10:23 pmOkay, I’m freaked out as well but a few things have got to be clearer.
Iraq is NOTHING comapred to Iran–there is a GOOD chance they are developing nuclear weapons, if they already do not have them. So I do agree with others when it comes to the fact that Iran does have nuclear weapons.
However, we have an adminsitration who has shown countless times they are INCOMPETENT when it comes to strategy in war. If we attack Iran, they are bound to attack us back–in ways that we only fear of. Only if we had a much stronger and smarter Administration could we fight the war without having many innocent lives lost.
If Iran is buildling nuclear weapons, we have no other choice but to stop them by force if diplomacy does not work. However, before we attack them, we must have support from the UN. and a more competent administration. Remember, Iran is NOT Iraq.
April 8th, 2006 at 10:38 pmDon’t worry Marc, I wouldn’t be worried as much about a counterattack as I would about the likelihood of even more chaos and conflict in the Middle East generating terrorism in the West. I guess that latter possibility is sort of something to worry about too though.
April 8th, 2006 at 10:49 pmI think the Joint Chiefs ‘threatening to resign” is a toned down version for public consumption.
The rage of the highest levels of the military against the Bushevikii knows no boounds (Jack Murtha’s been saying as much, and Jack’s the guy they talk to in private when they can’t speak in public.)
Any attempt to actually attack Iran using nuclear weapons may cross the Rubicon.
The Rubicon, you ask?
Military coup.
If the Joint Chiefs of Staff went before the nation and said that in view of the orders given by George Bush to launch a nuclear strike on a another nation, we have been forced to remove him and his administration from power, would the American people stand still for it?
The Left would be alarmed–but after all, they got rid of Bush…
The right would be alarmed–but after all, they ARE the military…
I think they’d do it. I think they’d get away with it.
Can’t happen here? Don’t bet onm it.
April 8th, 2006 at 10:51 pm#56 U-Wrong-U: Swift victory… like the one in Iraq? You stupid, fucking twit. You’re probably frothing at the mouth right now and your eyes are wide open thinking to yourself, ‘do it! Do it! Yes, yes, yes! Nuke ‘em! God bless America! Nuke ‘em! You incredibly sick fuck!
Now I know 9-11 was allowed to happen or maybe even partially planned for. I’ll believe you when you can convince me how a bunch of know-nothing Arabs could get NORAD to stand down during not one, but 4 hijackings!
I don’t care if TP bans me for my language or whatever else I say to you or anyone else that espouses the same insane opinions as you. You are a fucking evil minded retard that doesn’t want a decent world for decent people. You and everyone like you should have been aborted because you didn’t have parents that had the capacity to teach you right from wrong. Compassion is not within you. Nor is anything else that falls under the meaning of what is good about humanity. You and people like you are nothing less than a cancer on this world. Why don’t you stop breathing and save some oxygen for more deserving people. God Damn, what the fuck is wrong with you?!
April 8th, 2006 at 10:54 pm#78
April 8th, 2006 at 11:06 pmno you are an idiot.
Fascism is the marriage of government and corperate interest.
Which is what we have become, religion is thrown in to control
idiots like you – who buy what is said rather than seeing
how they act. God help us from moron cultist like you.
a-hole. May you burn in hell.
“No, communism and fascism are very similar ideologies, both of the left.
Comment by Pro-Democracy — April 8, 2006 @ 10:02 pm”
I’ll bet you teach political science at Liberty University.
April 8th, 2006 at 11:28 pmOh my God. No! There’s no earthly way they can be THAT evil or stupid. I mean what the hell?! Do they want to get the whole world blown up?! What could POSSIBLY be good out of using NUCLEAR weapons on any country? This cannot be happening. If this is true (going to war with Iran period!) we’re pretty much going to die…
This is more insane than anything I’ve heard concerning the Bush administration, and after 6 years of hell, and that’s saying something. Meh…
April 8th, 2006 at 11:33 pm#86 Innocent Bystander: ROTFLMMFAO!!!! Some people have a problem immitating intelligence (#78).
Can you imagine what the Science Dept. is like at Liberty University?!
April 8th, 2006 at 11:36 pm#57 paul
Many of us read your posts – in fact, I look for them – because you seem knowledgeable and offer much information.
April 8th, 2006 at 11:36 pmWe have written leaders, called them, and marched in the streets to express our objections to this government, but we are outpowered by the rightwingers, ignored by the press, and otherwise disrespected. My frustration turned to anger and now to despair.
I share your thoughts on the Israeli connection with the start of war with Iran, but
what is the strength of the pact with Israel – how and why is it strong enough to lead to WWIII?
ProDem get yourself a dictionary, an encyclopedia or look it up on the web — fascism as a left-wing policy is an oxymoron.
April 8th, 2006 at 11:39 pmYour association of the two displays your ignorance.
I heard there’s a shortage of Prozac among the GOP.
Straight jackets for all Republicans before it’s too late.
Impeach, remove, detain, commit, whatever it takes to rid the world of these pyschopaths!
April 9th, 2006 at 12:44 am#83 “If the Joint Chiefs of Staff went before the nation and said that in view of the orders given by George Bush to launch a nuclear strike on a another nation, we have been forced to remove him and his administration from power, would the American people stand still for it?”
Well, I think the best approach, in keeping with the legacy that America created of changing power from administration to administration peacefully, a much better idea would be for us to overrun the capital… I’m talking serious demonstrations. Not for a couple hours, but staying there, like the Ukraine citizens did when their democracy was being stolen frrom them. We march on Washington and clog up the capital; flood the streets, sit ins at congressional and senate office buildings, I mean flood the place and demand immediate impeachment
It’s high time!!!
On the other hand, if it were so urgent that the Joint Chiefs felt they were put in that position, I would like to see them first publicly urge congress to impeach and remove the president for what he is atempting to do. But removing this president by ‘any’ means… if it prevents a world wide catastrophe… I am for it.
April 9th, 2006 at 12:46 am#92 G.S.A.:A catastrophe is what we are trying to avoid.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:33 amPro demagoguery……
Moon = Green Cheese
You = Flaming Genius.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:50 amYou know, I am inclined to agree with the analogy of Bush to Jim Jones. We all have to convince eveyone to refuse to drink the kool aid!!!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 4:07 amWe all have to work harder to get this power crazed know nothing ideologically perverse government out of power. As the days of their dominance draw to a close, the actions get more and more insane and desparate. Look at Berlisconi and his over the top insane rants. He may very well lose this electiion, but I doubt that he will go quietly into the shadows with out some kind of fight.
I’m not ready for an armegeddon fored on me by a bunch of assholes and I will do all I can to fight the very idea of it! I truly believe that if enough people believe in something, it will probably come to pass.
[...] http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/08/hersh-joint-chiefs-opposed-to-iran-nuke-attack-members-of-congress-gung-ho [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 6:33 amScary shit
Parading its own capabilities, the US has meanwhile made a point of publicising tests in Nevada of “deep penetration’’ bunker-buster bombs that could be used against underground nuclear facilities. And moving perilously close to “enemy lines’’, it plans its own naval exercises in the Gulf next month. The codename? Arabian Gauntlet.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:44 amRuss you rock! Thanks for the Brookings stuff. Here is a pic of one being loaded on a B-2. Now how that photographer thinks he owns the copyrights to that picture is beyond me. Anyway, does anyone know who makes the B6-111? Sorry if I got the number wrong I don’t want it coming up in google from this blog. yeah if we could get the big board symbol for who makes those beauties we can watch the stock. Sorta like Rumsfeld and his Roche stock regarding Tamiflu. BTW what does Wall st think about all of this? Time to watch the Dow …Link to pic: http://www.paulshambroomart.com/art/nuclear%20weapons%20revA/pages/7525_18%20B6111.html
April 9th, 2006 at 8:36 amSuggestion to those who have time check out Paul Shambroom’s web site, great photos. How these aren’t classified is beyond me. Enjoy: http://www.paulshambroomart.com/art/nuclear%20weapons%20revA/index.html
April 9th, 2006 at 8:54 amThere’s a second ‘White House’ in Crawford. And a third at Camp David. So many places a worm can go to dig a hole. The people should and will be heard. This government is criminal and must be held accountable.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:55 amI didn’t read all the posts so this could be redundant, but is all this talk of nuking Iran simply a way of changing the news cycle away from leaks?
April 9th, 2006 at 9:01 amIn other words, the president shouldn’t be allowed to take a ‘leak’ without knowing that opposition is all around him, whether it’s Crawford, Camp David, or Washington. Almost forgot Kennebunkport.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:06 amWhere is that flaming idiot Richard Perl? Is he on the DSB?
April 9th, 2006 at 9:23 amWe are left with no alternative but to remove these thugs by any means necessary.
First, we maust use the “camp Casey” tactic of camping out surrounding the White House in increasing numbers for as long as it takes demanding resignation and arrests of this administration.
Second, building on this we need a national strike in support of those surrounding the White House to shut the country down until these creeps are removed from power.
Should they nuke Iran (and while we’re still alive) we need to take to the streets and STAY THERE shutting the country down.
We have no other alternative left.
April 9th, 2006 at 10:05 am[...] I’m stunned that article treats it with anything approaching equilibrium. I’d have liberally sprinkled !!!!! throughout. Apparently, Congress is unconcerned. Even somewhat enthusiastic. [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 10:06 amFly-man, all I’ve found so far on the B61-11 is that it’s produced by Sandia Labs. According to the “Bulletin of Atomic Scientists”, we have
about 1,925 of these bunker-busters, of which 1,265 are operational. See http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=jf03norris.
See http://www.fas.org/faspir/2001/v54n1/weapons.htm to learn how low-yield earth penetrating nukes are deployed.
See http://www.nukestrat.com/us/afn/B61-11.htm for even more info. Note the pic of the B61-11 at Whiteman AFB here in Missouri. Kinda scary.
April 9th, 2006 at 10:12 amEverything that we have tried to prevent in foreign policy since WW II is now coming true in our generation. And it’s not our asshole enemies that are creating mindkind’s ultimate nightmare, IT”S US!
Can someone pinch me, please, surely this is only a dream.
April 9th, 2006 at 10:55 amWake-up everybody > Bush might launch an attack on Iran between April 17th and April 23rd?! The Congress is now on vacation till April 24th, so this is Bush’s greatest chance to attack Iran! Bush could attack Iran next week before Easter, but not even Pat Robertson could defend him if he did that since he would look like the Anti-Christ! The danger has arrived everyone, so you all have one week to stop WWIII from starting perhaps?!
April 9th, 2006 at 11:15 amI’ve seen several posts bandied about regarding how children are raised in this country from outsiders and I wanted to add my two cents. I’m 35 now and I have no kids, but I disagree with your assertions that we’re all ritalin-injected pussies and now we’ve morphed into a whole society of confused do-nothings because we don’t know how. Nothing could be further from the truth, sir.
To understand how I was reared you should probably know how my parents were molded. Let’s stick with the men. In my case, my father spent 7 years in the Air Force during Vietnam, stationed in Guam. He was fixing up McNamara’s and Nixon’s B52s that were illegally bombing Laos and Cambodia, working 18 hour shifts to keep them in the air. My grandfather was a sergeant in the US Army and on the beaches of Normandy during World War II. He was on the front lines as a German translator trying to root out the Germans, some of whom had defected and were hiding in France, but most of whom were in full-scale retreat. He saw thousands of his own soldiers die during the invasion and plenty more dead Frenchmen, women, and children as the Germans ransacked France.
Each of these instances affected both of these men and they each saw the injustices of war. As a result their own political, moral, and social affiliations changed dramatically. War is hell. War is awful. War is the LAST option. It should be avoided at all costs. And political wars, like in the case of Vietnam where we were effectively fighting the Pan-Asian Communists (and that includes all of them), are the most insidious & corrupt weapons of megalomaniacal men. These things were instilled in me as a child, into adolescence, and as a young man.
Fast forward to now. I’m an adult living in a 9/11 world. The fix was in from the get-go, as soon as GW Bush was nominated by his party for president in the 2000 elections. How do I know? I’ve done my homework. My parents (and as a natural extension, my grandparents) taught me to always question authority, but most especially authority by proxy (by divine right). They taught me military strategy. They taught me armament and weaponry, how to shoot a gun, and basically what’s right from wrong. And what they didn’t teach me I took up on my own by reading book after book on military strategy & warfare. To understand how NOT to go to war you have to understand the thinking OF warriors. You have to BECOME a warrior in order to implement peace.
Two veteran military men who have seen war — BOTH EMPHATICALLY STRESSED that killing is wrong, no matter the cause. Even justifiable homicide in self-defense is still taking a human life. A human life is precious; a human life should be protected to the fullest extent possible (post-birth — I am not discussing the sticky fetus issue. Maybe another time). Killing is wrong. Period. End of discussion. Any right-minded career military man is not in the military to kill, he is in the military to protect HUMAN LIVES: HIS, HIS WIFE’S, HIS PARENT’S, AND HIS KID’S. I do not RECOGNIZE this alien U.S. military of today. It is so far from the nobility and honor of the U.S. military of yesteryear that it is unreal & therefore unknowable. But let’s not mince words: because it is not what it once was it is something else entirely. It is not the U.S. military.
A rigged election, a false justification to destroy a Family enemy (presumably because of Family honor — but more like the Sauds wanted to get rid of Hussein and the Bush regime was more than eager to please the Sauds), illegal wiretapping, Enron, Oil profits, pharmaceuticals advertising on broadcast TV, “detainment camps” being built by Haliburton, torture, “enemy combatants” (prisoners with no rights), the royal Saudi relationship to the Bush family (including bin Laden), signing statements and the Unitarian doctrine, and now beating the war drums as payback for the Iran Hostage Crisis.
This country under this government looks nothing like the country I grew up loving, the country I was taught by TWO VETERAN MILITARY MEN WHO BOTH HAD SEEN WARS to protect and cherish, to defend liberty and freedom at all costs. 9/11 took our freedoms away to speak out against the injustices because we’re traitors collaborating with terrorists if we do. We have no liberty in a police state. We have no free speech. We’re greymailed or blackmailed into being the mouthpiece of the government or else we get audited, we’re incarcerated for some trumped-up charge, planted evidence…whatever can be made to take you down. To take up arms in protest against this administration, its policies, its actions abroad, is deemed unpatriotic by the neo-conservatives who are cumming all over themselves with the drive to messianic Armageddon: war by divine right. They’ve taken control of our government (all three branches no less) and we ARE a fascist state right now, we aren’t ‘just becoming one’ as a few of you who still have your heads in the sand would assert.
The fix was in from the get-go. How else can the administration explain the presence of BOTH Rumsfeld and Cheney, who were either in Bush I’s administration as President or Vice President under Reagan, or back when Bush was briefly the director of the CIA in 1976? Don’t look to G.W. to create such a plan, folks. He’s not that smart. The plan was begun with Bush Sr. and Cheney LONG AGO and W is just carrying them out. Family duty and all that. Just look at the rigged election (probably another one of Bush Sr.’s doing — note Jim Baker on the legal team in Florida) and Florida itself with Jeb Bush at the helm and his lackey Katherine Harris ‘certifying’ the election. Basically all this was set in motion when the U.S. Supreme Court handed the Presidential victory to Bush II, something we’re all aware they shouldn’t have done. It completely politicized the Supreme Court. Now, we’d all had our misgivings about the Court prior to the elections, but to codify the politicization of a JUDICIAL BODY was and is 100% wrong. We have no other place to look when we ask “Where has our democracy gone?” Just look at thugs like Scalia. Would any justice in history behave like this buffoon and be able to get away with it in a right and just society? The answer is absolutely not. But the media seem to yawn instead of excoriate his inappropriate, unprofessional, and absolutely partisan behavior in public and on the Court.
So back to your point — that Americans are all ritalin-addled, defenseless pussies wee-weeing all over ourselves, that can’t manage to lift a finger to protest. I would say, what power do we have left for us to protest? The overwhelming wave of evil that men must do to one another in order to take control of a government that is supposed to be FOR the people BY the people, for their own perverted aims (including warfare), the raping of the land by corporations, the raping of its people by heavy taxation, eliminating the middle class and creating a poverty class of slave labor…that plan was put in place LONG AGO and they’ve set it up in such a way as any dissent or protest, as peaceful or as violent as it may be, will be considered an egregious act against the Sovereign power and therefore squashed like a bug. We have no power, not with our votes, not with our voices, not with our pocketbooks. They’ve made sure of it.
So while you sit on the other side of the Atlantic and take potshots at us Americans, the real Americans among us who are real patriots, you should realize what we’re really going through and how powerless we’ve become as waves of nationalism, anti-Arab racism, corporations, and the Christian Right rig the system for their benefit.
Why don’t you be our brother instead of our critic and help us out of this fucking mess? Come over here in solidarity and help us wage the intellectual war that must be fought in order dispense with this evil criminal element that is our government.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:29 amLooking at the desparate idiocy of Berlusconi in the last days of the Italian presidential campaign, I cannot help but think that the same principle is operating here on a much more epic insane scale. (Thank goodness that Italy is not a nuclear power!)
April 9th, 2006 at 11:43 amThis is a very good way to redirect the mediia from reporting on the leaks, scandals and other sundry affairs that are steadily eroding the power base of the Administration. Unfortunately, the congress is composed for the most part of Dumbfuckistanian yahoos who have know idea of how reality works. They are riding the propaganda express from poll to poll and taking the rest of the Dumbfuckistanians along with them.
DON’T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looking at the desparate idiocy of Berlusconi in the last days of the Italian presidential campaign, I cannot help but think that the same principle is operating here on a much more epic insane scale. (Thank goodness that Italy is not a nuclear power!)
April 9th, 2006 at 11:44 amThis is a very good way to redirect the mediia from reporting on the leaks, scandals and other sundry affairs that are steadily eroding the power base of the Administration. Unfortunately, the congress is composed for the most part of Dumbfuckistanian yahoos who have no idea of how reality actually works. They are riding the propaganda express from poll to poll and taking the rest of the Dumbfuckistanians along with them.
DON’T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I have one question…
If the citizens of this country (those of us who are sane and love a responsible government) go into open armed revolt, will the military back up the citizens or the Executive branch?
My guess is they would back up bushco. I never figured Armaggedon was more than whistful thinking on the fundie neo-con side. Now I’m worried that the righties who see how badly they botched Iraq feel they can only redeem themselves by making Iran one big sheet of glass. They get a twofer, they can puff up their weakened ego’s and if things go bad to worse (they would, WW III anyone?) they get their Armageddon & thier prophecies turn out to come out.
I was at redstate on Friday & I couldn’t believe that everyone there was all gung ho on nuking Iran. “Course, they’ve booted anyone who wasn’t in their sick, demented, perverted and zombie like choir along tome ago, so I shouldn’t be surprised. But I still was. I thought they had more sense. There I go giving bushies more credit then they deserve…
What the hell was I thinkin’?
April 9th, 2006 at 11:45 amIf the citizens of this country (those of us who are sane and love a responsible government) go into open armed revolt, will the military back up the citizens or the Executive branch?
Comment by kindness — April 9, 2006 @ 11:45 am
Actually, under the current circumstances, I think the military might go with the people. After all, most of these enlisted folks don’t want to go to war either, unless it is absolutely necessary. He’s already pissing a lot of them off. Not smart.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:49 amRemember,if we hit Iran,we lose the Shi’ites in Iraq.That could be the determent
April 9th, 2006 at 11:58 amGiven that anyone who would even think about launching a preemptive attack (either nuclear or conventional) against another nation has to be certifiably insane. Given that anyone who is insane is unfit to be President of the United States. One can only arrive at the conclusion that person must be removed from office.
April 9th, 2006 at 12:20 pmCongress and the court missed the boat three years ago, will they react before really serious damage is done?
[...] This morning on CNN, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh addressed the uproar at the highest levels of the U.S. military over plans to launch a massive strike against Iran that would include nuclear weapons: What I’m writing here is that if this [plan to use nukes] isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. … [O]ne thing about our military, they’re very loyal to the president, but they’re getting to the edge. They’re getting to the edge with not only Rumsfeld, but with Cheney and the President. [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 1:40 pm#110 truepatriot says “….by reading book after book on military strategy & warfare. To understand how NOT to go to war you have to understand the thinking OF warriors. You have to BECOME a warrior in order to implement peace….
Scott Ritter has written an essay saying the same thing — Ritter was “swiftboated” by the admin. but his knowledge of the ME and his experience have proven to have been far more accurate than anything we have seen from Bush&Co.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pmYou might find this interesting.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12592.htm
As for IRI…since I refuse to address the ridiculous second part of your comment…(#59) how did you know that I am skinny?
Comment by Alexandra
It was just a guess sugarpants. I’m guessing crack addicts don’t gain much weight.
What do you mean ridiculous statement? I’m serious. If you love your fellow man (like you should) you woulnd’t want some Islamofreak like the men running Iran to put them all in danger of an attack by the world’s greatest military. If you dimwitted left of center “humanitarians” want to protest something go protest against the men who demand the RIGHT to tactical nuclear weapons. Protest the men who claim GOD HIMSELF wants them to aquire them and wants them to USE them against a tiny country who is already surrounded by enemies of the worst sort.
I mean really, if you can’t get behind a protest against Muslim headchoppers trying to make atomic weapons and who have promised to use them against innocent men women and children and little doggies too then, WTF good are you anyway?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:28 pmScott Ritter has written an essay saying the same thing — Ritter was “swiftboated†by the admin. but his knowledge of the ME and his experience have proven to have been far more accurate than anything we have seen from Bush&Co.
You might find this interesting.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12592.htm
Comment by Marie
Scot Ritter was a paid actor for Saddam and a baby raper. I thought somebody already put a bullet in his head?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:31 pmGiven that anyone who would even think about launching a preemptive attack (either nuclear or conventional) against another nation has to be certifiably insane.
Comment by WaltTheMan
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and still expecting a different outcome. We will attack and we will use tactical nukes to get at those sheltered bomb plants. To sit back and do nothing is insane. You lack guts Walt and you lack moral fiber. You’re a French Canadian aren’t you?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:35 pmIRI = captain of swift boats.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:27 pmShill for Fox.
He’s been had by Bush&Co and he doesn’t know it.
#121 – iri,
April 9th, 2006 at 4:55 pmLet’s see – attack nation #1 – attack nation #2 – attack nation #3, Doesn’t that sound like doing the same thing over and over and over? Find some marbles, you’ve obviously have lost all of yours.
CalGal and CalGuy #46 & #70, I sent emails to all Senators and many Congressmen several months ago, when this Bush paln to preemptively nuke Iran first became clear.
I urged Congress for the sake of our children and grand children to pass emergency legislation merely to prevent the president from launching a ‘preemptive’ AND ‘nuclear’ attack on any non-nuclear, NPT country, but to no avail. “Resolved, that the president shall not launch preemptive nuclear war against a non-nuclear country without explicit consent of Congress.” I would be glad to share my letter with you, but since only a few dozen replied at all — and all of them said that the president would never launch such an attack, I lost all hope that the gutless, very stupid, and most importantly pro-war corporate controlled Congress would ever do anything — even before Sy Hersh’s story broke. I have no reason to change my mind now.
I concluded that the only hope to prevent Bush from launching nuclear armegedon was a Hope in the Generals —– that they would not carry out such illegal, immoral, and international war crimes against humanity.
There is, as Hersh reports some significant Hope in the Generals:
1. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Marine General Peter Pace has told his senior military leaders that they can and should not carry out orders that in their judgement would be immoral, illegal, and constitute ‘war crimes’ —- seee article
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/hirsch.php?articleid=8678
2. The senior staff officere of the US military have been using Rep Murtha as a back-channel to Congress to inform that they will not acceed to orders to launch a preemptive nuclear war on a non-nuclear country, that would plunge the ME and the world into nuclear holocaust.
3. The latest issue of “Harpers” has a feature article on a round table airing of reasons that the senior military leaders might disobey orders (or even have to resort to a coup d’etat) and the only reason given is in the case of a president who was innsane and ordered a nuclear attack without reason.
I have posted and debated extensively on the NYTimes Iraq/n forums that “Hope in the Generals” was the last best hope of avoiding nuclear holocaust from a Bush CONPLAN 8022 preemptive nuclear attack on Iran. And although early discussion of this hope (before the Hersh article in New Yorker) was strongly dismissed as conspiracy theory by other Times posters, it is now viewed more realistically.
Let’s all pray —- pray hard for sanity and guts of the Generals, since both are missing from the president and Congress.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:59 pmI shall tell you some things that will occur IF the US and/or Israel should bomb (as in air war) or invade (as in land invasion)..
They are both intended and UNINTENDED consequences:
The Islamic fundamentalist will se that those “on the fence”– will align temselves AGAINST the US (as in Christians/ Western “civilization”). a catalyst it will be to add fuel to the fire called the “war” on whatever: drugs, terror, dissidents… whatever..
April 10th, 2006 at 12:21 amIn time.. maybe not immediately, the Russians and Hinese will align and , in turn, “attac” the US… It may be months or years.. but the US is on a road to perdition.. Seems congress is totally corrupt.. and will “go along” ith whatever agend lines their pockets with money and the blood of Amerika’s sons and daughters…. The irony is that the so-called public doesnt seem to care… Sad.. very sad…..
The elephant in the room is the Israel Lobby. Read Hersch’s ariticle and then read the essay by Mearsheimer and Walt (The Israel Lobby). To quote M&W, “Pressure from Israel and the Lobby was not the only factor behind the decision to attack Iraq in March 2003, but it was critical.” Now substitute Iran for Iraq in that statement, and one gets the picture. Unlike senior civilian policymakers and politicians, the military brass does not need to kowtow to the Israelis. Am I anti-simetic? No, I’m not anti-anyone. I’m pro-American. And I am becoming more and more disgusted by the pernicious influence that the Israel Lobby seems to have over our vital national security interests.
April 10th, 2006 at 6:52 amI’m pro-American. And I am becoming more and more disgusted by the pernicious influence that the Israel Lobby seems to have over our vital national security interests.
Comment by Haig —
Nonsense. Why is it every time something in the Mid East goes some other way than the way the Filthy Left and their Islamifascist allies want it you blame the JOOOOOZ? Huh? Why don’t you blame the Muslim headchoppers once in awhile just for kicks?
April 10th, 2006 at 9:21 amIRI, you are SOOOOOOO goofy.
April 10th, 2006 at 9:41 amIrighty- you’ve called us filthy left & islamofascist allies one too many times.
wtf are you doing here but trying to appease your tiny ego? From our perspective, the only thing smaller than your ego is your mind. The only thing smaller than your mind is between your legs.
Just take care and go somewhere where people agree with you, eh?
April 10th, 2006 at 9:43 amkindness, you know that goofball is here to stir things up. He has no friends and no one buys his nonsense. We are his last vestige and I find it funny that he only us. He also likes to say he is doing us a favor, but he is here for himself and no one else. He is a typical greedy neoliberal; one of a dying breed. As long as he keeps himself alive in some venue, he feels he is holding on.
He is scared. And rightly so.
April 10th, 2006 at 9:51 amGirls, girls, girls, I am doing you a favor. There’s only a couple of people on this site with any brains to help you poor left behind losers out. Who else is going to tell you that the JOOOOZ don’t dictate American foreign policy and that Left Wing Ratbastards are in bed with the Islamofascists?
April 10th, 2006 at 10:20 am#131 – iri may be doing us a favor, like commiting suicide – wonder how many shots it will take from its BB gun to accomplish this? (Tip – shots delivered into the eye socket are usually more effective.)
April 10th, 2006 at 10:47 amHahahahaha. There is not a single member of the active duty military above the rank of PFC who would talk to some whack fringe lunatic and conspiracy theorist like Hersh. If Hersh claims that he has “numerous” “Pentagon” “sources” and “contacts” then he’s an even bigger fool that the useful idiots who believe him.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:20 amirighties ego, mind and appendage are shinking even smaller as we speak. It’s funny from time to time, but you’re insane now, & it isn’t nice to make fun of “dim-witted” folks.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:57 amI suspect Bush has read this article from Jane’s Intelligence Weekly and wants to kick up the price of gas so his buddies at Exxon can top a hundred billion this year.
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jir/jir060320_1_n.shtml
April 10th, 2006 at 11:59 am20 March 2006
Deterrence by punishment could offer last resort options for Iran
Well, not that he actually read it himself, of course, but that it was summarized for him and the implications spelled out for him.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:01 pmNew motto for Nov elections:
Impeach Congress, then the President!
April 10th, 2006 at 12:36 pmAlbert,
April 10th, 2006 at 12:54 pmI believe that he has no concept of the chaos that he has created and could create. In his mind, war is like a video game (Alien Invasion is a bit complex for W, but comes close. He’s more a Pong type.). W is dumber than his father who had problems going through a check-out line. Inbreeding does that.
Whether now or later, the arab countries would attack us. Look at history……it’s king of the mountain and someone is ALWAYS trying to knock you off. I’ve never seen such a large group of pussies in my life. Do you really think we can just keep driving our suv’s with our Prozac heads in the clouds? There will come a point where once again, someone will try to take us out. HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF. Can’t we learn a lesson? Someone ALWAYS rises to power and tries to take us on. Fuck Pearl Harbor, fuck 9/11……..gets some balls and back our govenrment which IS pre-emptively eliminating our future enimies.
April 11th, 2006 at 11:57 amSeriously, they want to eradicate Israel! Anyone NOT wanting to wipe out that government is a fucking Nazi. Don’t like it here? Then move to Iran and quit your bitching….
Do you honestly think we can stay on top without a fight? The first time you go without something because of another country, you’ll be the first one bitching to drop bombs.
You didn’t get to live in a country like this because our forefathers were pussies. You Frenchmen make me sick, and our country will fall as all you little crybabies suck your thumbs. So go let your teenagers pierce their genitals, tattoo their bodies, and ingest horse tranquilizers. You’ve already proven your shitty job at parenting (look at kids today), like you have a CLUE how to run a government. You are breeding your children for takeover.
Tell me you’d feel this way if/when China invades us……or would you say its more PC to just let them take over?
Excuse me while I vomit…
Excuse me while I vomit…
Comment by hardcore
I find Prozac and bourbon works wonders when dealing with the ratbastardcommiemofos around here. I haven’t vomited since one of the losers said he looked forward to the day when this country will be speaking primarily Spanish. Here’s something else you can hold on to though….most of these fucktards will never reproduce.
April 12th, 2006 at 11:50 amYou”re doing a heck of a job Rumy!
April 14th, 2006 at 3:24 pmSince Congress is complicit, Congress is accountable and Congress has defaulted on supporting and protecting the Constitution also. They have re-written Law to favor war-profiteers, bioweapons production and influence peddling.
We must turn Congress out and form some new political parties. Both the Republicans and Democrats are on the same leashes : plutocratic conspiracies.
I doubt this nation will survive as a whole, such an onslaught of evil intentions. Who knows, human extinction may be their intention, after the psych-ops of Majestic12 intell groups.
M. Emily Cragg
April 16th, 2006 at 4:35 pmSan Jose California
IRI, you have no arguement. You remind me of Snake from Escape from New York and Duke Nukem. You only have insults that you can’t back up and fear n’ war mongering. Instead of labeling everyone as cowards, tell us how the US is better off after invading Iraq and possibly attacking Iran? Don’t forget, even after removing Saddam, he still didn’t have the WMDs to actually threaten us. I guarantee that this (even threatening with using nukes) will only further isolate the US and encourage terrorism on our shores. Do you think they will sit back now and just let us make the first move? I should put it into terms that you’ll understand: don’t throw a rock at the hornet’s nest unless you’re ready to be stung by a bunch of pissed off suicidal bees (in case you didn’t know, you can’t nuke every Iranian). And for the record, we also have some religious freaks here. The president said God told him to invade Iraq (was God wrong about WMDs? or was someone wishing God told him to do that?).
I posted this not in the hopes that you’ll think differently, I know that won’t happen. People like you don’t want to listen or consider any other idea that isn’t yours because you’ll realize that you’re way off base. I do hope that others see the “game” that right-wingers play on a daily basis. Maybe someday people will see their strategy of name calling and scaring the country with incorrect facts was just ultranationalist propaganda. The people who stop and think are not cowards or unamerican. Those who spread fear so they can fan the flames of war and benefit from it are douchbags.
Sure we have the ability to do whatever we want, but that doesn’t mean victory will be swift and there won’t be serious consequences if we attack another country. Consider the potentially devestating nuclear counterattack if we tried taking out the Cuban missile sites in ‘63… the counterattack on Seoul, a city of 10 million people, if we attacked the nuke facility in North Korea… By the way, who will stop China if they decide that we are effectively tied up in Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran when they want to invade Taiwan?
Without the neocons and GW’s ‘leadership’, where would we be?!
Thanks for making the rich richer and the poor poorer… that means they’ll be more blessed
Thanks for isolating the US and ruining decades of foreign policy when we need it the most
Thanks for putting the country further into the red and indebting our children
Thanks for the ~17,000 injured combat veterans, I’m sure they’ll enjoy the license plates
Thanks for the clear exit strategy and making Iraq safer for Iraqis, carbombs shmawbombs!
Thanks for using sound bites and one-liners to unify our country in a time of war
Thanks for domestic spying and preserving our freedom, we all feel safer
Thanks for fixing social security, repealing envirnmental protections and reforming immigration… you’ve done so much, why don’t you take a break and chop some firewood?
I’m guessing I’ll be called names and labeled unamerican in 3….. 2….. 1……
April 18th, 2006 at 7:01 pmWednesday, April 12th, 10pm, EST
Editor-in-Chief Norman Pearlstine
Managing Editor Walter Isaacson
Time Magazine, Rockefeller Center, NYC (letters@time.com)
&
Mayor Jerry Sanders
City of San Diego % San Diego Transportation ( engineering@sandiego.gov )
Dear Mr. Pearlstine, Mr. Isaacson and Mayor Sanders,
In lockstep the media reacts to Mr. Hersh only by repeating that the US will not attack Iran. That was the least of Mr. Hersh’s accusations. Mr. Hersh accused the administration of implimenting ‘abnormal’ plans for using nuclear weapons upon Iran at the same time as the administration was making demands. That is not mere ‘brandishing’ of nukes. That is nuclear extortion.
There was no denial.
Mr. Ahmadinejad made a calm, published suggestion.
Is it now true or not true (Mr. Pearlstine and Mr. Isaacson) that there is a present nuclear clock, and that given the geography (both rail and highway), San Diego will need plan the relocation hundreds of thousands as far south as Playas de Rosarito, La Joya and Valle Bonito? In Mexico.
Sincerely,
Michael Donovan
Camden, ME http://www.midcoast.com/~michael1/webnukeletter.htm
Cc: Ahmadinejad, President of Iran; Kim Il Sung, President of North Korea: Mandam Shenyou, Defense, Mainland China, Admiral Yurchenko, Russian navy: General Ozkok, Turkey; Hafez Al-Assad, President, Syria: Musevini, President of Uganda; Hugo Chavez, President of Venezuela; others
(Nigeria HMI@heartofafrica.net HMI@heartofafrica.net, General Musevini: utb@starcom.co.ug utb@starcom.co.ug, apaiva@embavenez-us.org apaiva@embavenez-us.org, North Korea korun@undp.org korun@undp.org, General Ozkok bilgi@basbakanlik.gov.tr , Syria Hafez Al-Assadcontact@niceonline.org , Madam Shenyou defence@chinaembassy.org.nz def, Admiral Yurchenko museum@mail.admiral.ru , Iran webmaster@president.ir webmaster@president.ir )
May 6th, 2006 at 1:36 am