Hersh: Our Military Is ‘Very Loyal to the President, But They’re Getting to the Edge’
Hersh: Our Military Is ‘Very Loyal to the President, But They’re Getting to the Edge’
This morning on CNN, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh addressed the uproar at the highest levels of the U.S. military over plans to launch a massive strike against Iran that would include nuclear weapons:
What I’m writing here is that if this [plan to use nukes] isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. … [O]ne thing about our military, they’re very loyal to the president, but they’re getting to the edge. They’re getting to the edge with not only Rumsfeld, but with Cheney and the President.
Hersh also addressed claims today by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw that the idea of a nuclear strike on Iran is “completely nuts.” Hersh’s response: “He didn’t deny there’s serious planning about the military strike, is the point. He’s absolutely right about a nuclear option, but there is planning for conventional war.”
Full transcript:
HERSH: When the JCS, the Joint Chiefs and the planners then wanted to walk back that option [to use nuclear weapons], what happened is about three or four weeks ago, the White House — people in the White House, in the Oval Office, the Vice President’s office — said “No, let’s keep it in the plan. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.” They refuse to take it out. What I’m writing here is that if this isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. Again, let me make the point, you’re giving a range of options early in the planning, to be sure of getting rid of it, you give that option. …
BLITZER: Some senior military officers are prepared to resign?
HERSH: I’m saying if this isn’t walked back and if the President isn’t told that you cannot do it — and once the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, some senior members of the military say to the President, let’s get the nuclear option off the table, it will be taken off. He will not defy the military in a formal report. Unless something specific is told to the White House that you’ve got to drop the dream of a nuclear option, and that’s exactly the issue I’m talking about, people have said to me they would resign.
BLITZER: Do you want to name names?
HERSH: Are you kidding?
BLITZER: I’m giving you the opportunity.
HERSH: No. You know why? Because this is a punitive government right now. This is a government that pretty much has its back against the wall, as you’ve been saying all morning in iraq, and in the military — one thing about our military, they’re very loyal to the president, but they’re getting to the edge. They’re getting to the edge with not only Rumsfeld, but with Cheney and the President.
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Thank God for Seymour, is all I have to say.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:51 pmThe big question here, though, is whether this is just a Bush ploy to make the Iranians nervous, or whether there are actually people who want to go to war in Iran. As we know, it has long been believed that the U.S. is most powerful when its adversaries think it is unpredictable, rash, likely to act out violently without regard to the consequences. This may all be a plan to get the Iranians nervous enough to get serious about diplomacy.
The problem here is that it a) all the Iran talk takes the focus off of Iraq, and b) puts the fear of attack back on the brains of Americans, which is probably not a bad thing for the Right going into 06 elections. Unfortunately, a lot more people fear Iran getting a nuke in the next month or year (a virtual impossibility) than they do Bush going Dr. Strangelove on us.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:55 pmARE WE RESOLVED TO BRING PEACE TO THE MID-EAST ? IF YES, THERES NO BETTER WAY THAN WITH NUCLEAR DEVICES. ITS IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT GOD IS ON OUR SIDE. THE PERSIANS MUST BE MADE TO UNDERSTAND WHO IS BOSS. WE ARE. AMERICA. FOR NOW AND FOREVER.
ITS ONLY THEIR ARMY THAT WILL BE NUKED. I KNOW MANY LIBERALS PREFER A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION , BUT IMAGINE HOW WELL DIPLOMACY WIL GO WHEN THEY HAVE NO CHOICE ! AND YOU “KNOW” WE COULD USE A FEW LONG TERM IRANIAN BASES. G.W. BUSH WILL BE KNOWN IN THE FUTURE AS THE MAN WHO TURNED THE MID-EAST INTO AN AMERICAN PROPERTY. ITS BETTER THAN THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE…
AMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:56 pmMass resignations at a high level might wake a few people up. And then they will be free to speak out against the Cheney Administration.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:56 pmIf the factual calculation is such that Iran is becoming a legitimate threat, logic would conclude that Israel has a larger interest in seeing Iran’s fledgling nuclear program dismantled (by bombings). In fact, Israel has a demonstrated history of resolving such situations accordingly.
Additionally, if Israel has not yet concluded to make the strike, then it is hard to imagine the rationale being used by this administration that would warrant we precede Israel’s often and necessarily preemptive strategy. Certainly the threat to Israel from Iran, when coupled with the Palestinian election of a radical Hamas government, would far exceed any presumed threat to America.
If this administration goes forward with a US assault on Iran rather than to consult with and support Israel (as a silent & out of sight ally) in making any necessary strikes, then I would assert that it may be reasonable to conclude that the decision to initiate a US assault was simply another in a long string of failed strategic and political calculations that have failed to reverse the ever sliding support for the President’s positions and for his struggling party. Perhaps the military brass sees it no differently?
http://www.thoughttheater.com
April 9th, 2006 at 1:57 pmAMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
Comment by supermushroom
Who was it that had to flee Europe because of christian persecution? Oh ya the early Americans. Who invented the Iron Maiden? Oh ya the christians. Who murdered every man, woman, and child (jew, christian, and muslim) in Jerusalem during the first crusade? Oh ya christians. I sure hope you are being sarcastic because if you are serious you are nuts.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pm>
I’m almost certain Jon Stewart on the Daily Show posed the same question about Bush’s actions in the lead up to the Iraq war.
These guys ain’t subtle enough for that to be the case.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:02 pmDoes Americas military fight and die for America or Israel? Did israelis even earn their country? Or was it handed to them?
Who is Americas military loyal to? The U.S. Constitution or the president?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:04 pmThe question Stewart posed (got dropped from my post) : “The big question here, though, is whether this is just a Bush ploy to make the Iranians nervous, or whether there are actually people who want to go to war in Iran.”
April 9th, 2006 at 2:04 pmStanley Kubrick was WAY ahead of his time with “Dr.Strangelove.”
April 9th, 2006 at 2:09 pmMass resignations will awaken some citizens, but those in power will still be there.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:11 pm9)
This is no bluff. If it were someone other than a rightwing nut job in charge then it could be a bluff. But these religious crazies have been talking about turning the middle east into one big sheet of glass ever since I was old enough to remember them saying it. The end of the world is a GOOD thing in their minds. They hate the progress humanity has achieved. They do not want humanity to move forwards with science into somekind of “star trek” future where all humans work together. They WANT to see the end of the world and they are sick of waiting… I sure hope they have not infiltrated the US military as much as they have the republican party. It seems only the military has the balls and hopefully the cold calculating mentality of the cold war is still in them enough to moraly force them to take some kind of public action against this blant abandonment of the US policies towards the use of nuclear weapons. A first use of nuclear weapons is immoral. It goes against everything America has stood for since the end of WWII.
If these neo cons cannot convince ALL of America to risk their lives to take action against Iran then it is not that important. We are not idiots. If faced with a serious threat we will take action… it does not require lieing to us or tricking us into action. I have thus far not been convinced. And it does not take an elaborate fantasy to convince me …. just cold hard facts and a serious effort at taking drastic actions of face to face person to person diplomacy that have ended in failure…leaving no alternative, but military action…. THIS has not been done. So I am not convinced that bombing is all that is left…
April 9th, 2006 at 2:14 pmThat word ‘loyal’, where do you draw the line? It’s a trap word. If your friend turns out to be a killer, I guess your ‘dis-loyal’ when you cut the friendship. The bushgang uses ‘loyal’ as a weapon.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:20 pmAll resignations will do is allow more madmen neocoms to populate the military, withh fewer sane voices of dissent.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:25 pmMushroom Messaih, excellent graphics
April 9th, 2006 at 2:27 pmThe military are “getting to the edge,” eh?
Anybody read “Seven Days in May”?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:39 pmI like the part where Hersch says to Wold “are you kidding?”
I’ve wanted him to be asked that many times.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:40 pmWolf. The Beard. Whatever.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:41 pmGee a few war criminials might resign if asked to commit more crimes?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:43 pmIt’s obviously not a matter of principles since our uniformed thugs have shown that they have none it must be that even their disease ridden brains realize the world would become unsafe for them and thier half witted children.
Can’t we just (finally) deem Bush a crazy-assed bastard and have him relieved from duty? There seems to be plenty of evidence stacking up that this guy is not playing with a full deck.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:45 pmThe post by Gerald Gibson is right.
This is no bluff, so let’s not even try to make ourselves comfortable by entertaining that illusion.
If you read Sy Hersch’s New Yorker article, you’ll see that at least one GOP congressman and several defense department officials are worried about Bush’s “messianic” vision.
Put succinctly: The guy’s off his rocker.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:49 pmBush thinks he’s the second coming. I think we’ve all got a right to be afraid.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:53 pmBush thinks he’s the second coming.
Comment by willard — April 9, 2006 @ 2:53 pm
Even more so now that Jesus (Tom Delay) is about to be crucified…
April 9th, 2006 at 2:55 pmGerald Gibson - Excellent posts. Your insight should make the media ashamed of themselves.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:58 pmAll resignations will do is allow more madmen neocoms to populate the military, withh fewer sane”
All the more reason to reinstate the draft.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pmWell, the supersickie Christians are taking over the Air Force Academy… maybe they have taken over the Air Force altogether. Just what we need, zealots flying bombers. Just what the Iranian people need. Super sickie loonie BushCo. calling the shots. Geeze. If there were a God and that God happened to be a Good God, it might say, “Good God” what are these sickies trying to do? Then they could be raptured. And I get one of their mansions.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pmI’m actually serious. Isn’t there some way to deem him no longer fit to be Commander in Chief?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pmI think it’s time for some drastic measures.
Jeff R-
Good point. In the novel and in the film the renegade military officer, General Scott, played by Burt Lancaster, wanted to overthrow the government because he thought it was too weak on foreign policy. Today the Bush administration is out of control, with very little checks and balances standing in the way of its grab for continuous war and power while many people are now hoping that the military can see the folly of what Bush is doing and will, if need be, refuse Bush’s orders to continue to wage war on countries which are not an imminent threat to the United States.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:00 pm#10: Stanley Kubrick was WAY ahead of his time with “Dr.Strangelove.†- - Actually, this administration has until now been a source of black humor like the type found in “Dr. Strangelove.” Unfortunately, BushCo is now like another far more sobering film released that same year, “Fail-Safe.”
April 9th, 2006 at 3:04 pmMany of my friends in uniform (Officers) barely tolerate the DOD much less Rummy and Bush. Its bad right now. The Army is wayyyyyyyyyyyy short of Capts and Majors. Any question as to why. The brass hang around the longest. We at the mid grade already have been smelling the BS coming down from the DOD and higher. Standby for an exodus of Officers at the mid level if this goes down. We, and even the ardent supporters of this administration know Iraq is a joke. We just want it to end and this administration simply cant figure out how. Most of us will tell you….just leave. Its that simple.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#14 jp So right. What better way to oust any high ranking military person who might stand in your way of obtaining world domination, and replace with other crazies who follow your psychotic visions. Martial law, here we come!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:08 pmWe, and even the ardent supporters of this administration know Iraq is a joke. We just want it to end and this administration simply cant figure out how. Most of us will tell you….just leave. Its that simple.
Comment by Will — April 9, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
So what will you do if they bomb Iran? Or try to turn America into a Polce State? On whose side will the military be - the People’s or the Administrations?
April 9th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#32 Good question. Hope we never have to find out!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pmWolf must have been disappointed that Hersh wasn’t cowed ironically enough, by Wolf’s rhetorical “here’s your chance to name names”.
Mr. Blitzer, you aren’t a journalist, and you don’t understand the concept of a whistleblower.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pmGood point. In the novel and in the film the renegade military officer, General Scott, played by Burt Lancaster, wanted to overthrow the government because he thought it was too weak on foreign policy. Today the Bush administration is out of control, with very little checks and balances standing in the way of its grab for continuous war and power while many people are now hoping that the military can see the folly of what Bush is doing and will, if need be, refuse Bush’s orders to continue to wage war on countries which are not an imminent threat to the United States.
Comment by Erroll — April 9, 2006 @ 3:00 pm
The only objection I heard was about using nukes. It seems they are all OK with waging war on contries that are not imminent threats to the US. So I guess when Bushco Inc. take the option off the table everyone will be perfectly happy to just blow the ever lovin’ crap out of Iran with conventional weapons instead. See the WH CAN compromise. The Murikan people will be happy then.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pmResignations? I think the President would LOVE some resignations. He’d be able to replace any resignee with whomever he pleases. He’s already repopulated the Supreme Court. I don’t want to see resignations. I’d rather see insubordination and people willing to go out on a limb with their careers. That would show loyalty. Walking away doesn’t show loyalty.
And Supermushroom, could you keep your capital letters down to the polite level? It’s not like your message and name don’t state your position with insufficient clarity. We get it.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:28 pmResignations? I think the President would LOVE some resignations. He’d be able to replace any resignee with whomever he pleases. He’s already repopulated the Supreme Court. I don’t want to see resignations. I’d rather see insubordination and people willing to go out on a limb with their careers. That would show loyalty. Walking away doesn’t show loyalty.
And Supermushroom, could you keep your capital letters down to the polite level? It’s not like your message and name don’t state your position with sufficient clarity. We get it.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:28 pm(sorry for the double post above — I had to change “insufficient” to “sufficient” and didn’t realize it had already gone through.)
April 9th, 2006 at 3:30 pmNobody I know or fly with wants a police state. Although its scary how far down that path we are going. I am an American citizen first. Not a military officer first. Hopefully the next administration will respect the military and not treat it as an endless body pool for personal use.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:33 pmAs I stated the best way out of Iraq is to just leave. The best policy with Iran is diplomacy. War will not and has not made this country safer the last 3 yrs. What most of you should take from this is that the only option we have is air power. We are simply way over extended to even think of a ground war with Iran.
There is no force level to support it and the country is simply too large. I cant see the administration making more than one or 2 large strikes if they pull the trigger on this. Politically it is such a bad call with our pathetic standing around the world already.
Very important column in Time today from retired Lt Gen Greg Newbold:
“It is time for senior military leaders to discard caution in expressing their views and ensure that the President hears them clearly.”
http://www.time.com/time/ magazin…1181587,00.html
April 9th, 2006 at 3:36 pmAMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
Comment by supermushroom
I do hope this is just being facetious….
April 9th, 2006 at 3:40 pmBush is certifiably nuts. He could not pass a psychological evaluation of any description. Cheney is equally bad, but in a different way. Smart evil. It is unfortunate for all of us that there is no way he can be forced into a psychological evaluation. They WILL use nukes if given the chance because they want population control, oil for power, appeasement of the so called Religious Right, etc. Amazingly, the religious hypocrites are advocating use of nukes and thus mass murder.
I think it should be pointed out to the potential pilots of planes that would be used to deliver nukes that they can be punished for war crimes just as easily as the Prez. They are Officers, they know right from wrong and they have to answer to World Courts for their actions. I suspect the “Top Officers” have already figured this out and are sweating a little under their hat bands.
No one ever threatens the use of Nuclear Weapons. The closest was JFK during the Cuban missile crisis and he only said he would retaliate with nukes if the USA was hit by nukes. A whole different ball game. Personally, I don’t see how the Secret Service, FBI, CIA and NSA can continue to serve this puke and his open aggression against the people of the world. We ALL are at risk with this nut case.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:41 pmHey, if we have a military coup in the U.S., whom do you want to send to the soccer stadium?
April 9th, 2006 at 3:49 pmNobody I know or fly with wants a police state. Although its scary how far down that path we are going. I am an American citizen first. Not a military officer first. Hopefully the next administration will respect the military and not treat it as an endless body pool for personal use.
Comment by Will — April 9, 2006 @ 3:33 pm
I just hope we can get to the ‘Next Administration’. Bush has a long time left to make an even bigger mess of things. And considering his previous behavior, it’s a pretty strong sign that what’s ahead won’t be any better.
I used to date a Navy pilot who knew all sorts of classified military informationf that he could never tell me. So, based on knowing that, if you’re saying that it’s scary how far down the road we’ve gone toward a Police State, I’m a little concerned about the stuff you have knowledge of that we do not. And about how much worse this whole nightmare is than we realize.
Well glad to know that there’s still some sanity left somewhere in government. Even if you’re not running the show now - some day you will be.
Thanks for answering my question. Some of us were discussing the issue earlier and I just thought I’d ask. Be safe please :)
April 9th, 2006 at 3:50 pmeven more frightening is the prospect of another “pearl harbor”, or better yet, another 911. OMG - will it be the west coast this time? Will it be a nuke? I swear, look up false flag terrorism - this government is BEST at it. And these psychopaths will NOT just step aside quietly.
My fantasy for the day: OUR MILITARY REVOLTS!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:50 pmComment by unbelievable — April 9, 2006 @ 3:50 pm
No problem!! My comment on police state is simply based on the patriot act etc. I dont like that law as a citizen at all. I see too much of my freedoms in jepordy in the name of security. I could care less what happens to me if im driving my car or flying on an airliner. Take common sense measures and keep living. This culture of fear that has been foisted on us is ridiculous. JUST LIVE!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:54 pm“(These religious crazies) do not want humanity to move forwards with science into somekind of “star trek†future where all humans work together. They WANT to see the end of the world and they are sick of waiting…” (Gerald Gibson:
April 9th, 2006 at 3:57 pmYou started out excellently, Mr Gibson, but not so fast…
Whew!! Apparently you are talking about the Arabs, but for a moment I thought you were talking about the evangelical crazies led by the messianic GBW who thinks god has directed him to dispense with science (creationism), who thinks he can destroy the planet with environmental pollution (as long as oil reigns who the fuck cares about global warming, a few forests or wild life reserves?), and who himself was “sick and waiting” a few extra days for the U.N. Inspectors to do their work in Iraq (that’s because Atta and his cohorts had been paid to fly into the World Trade Center and folks, we have a timetable here )…We have become known as a rogue nation and have lost all the global respect and integrity we earned since our inception.
I’m sorry to disagree, but it sure sounds like it is GBW, not the Arabs, who wants to see the end of the world, because he is sure trying to make it so. Read the similarities with us and the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. From apathy, to religiosity, corruption, erosion of the middle class, bankruptcy…all in all there are about 210 reasons, and I would say we have a good 75% already.
#39 I agree. I cannot imagine the backlash from our friends, let alone the middle east. Also, as we are hearing all this, the Iranians are hearing it, as well. They aren’t going to sit peacefully by and wait for it to happen. Granted, ground forces are so stretched, it’s surprising they haven’t snapped. Plus, sending in ground troops, puts them at risk again, like Iraq, which would really stir up a hornet’s nest with the American people. Air strikes, can hit and run, with hopefully, little or no losses, and less flack from the American people. The numbers needed for a ground assault would need the draft, which currently, is a dirty word.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:57 pmAlso, will China and Russia just sit by and let us do it?
No problem!! My comment on police state is simply based on the patriot act etc. I dont like that law as a citizen at all.
Comment by Will — April 9, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
Yeah, me neither. Gives the Executive far more power than Jefferson, Franklin and Paine would be comfortable with. And for good reason. But Bush wants to be King of the World. And in the process is destroying a wonderful country.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:00 pmDoes this mean North Korea’s next?
April 9th, 2006 at 4:04 pmAlso, will China and Russia just sit by and let us do it?
Comment by Nancy L. — April 9, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
Actually, haven’t they been preparing for such an event? For being able to thwart a ‘rogue nation of unidentified origin’? If they were smart, they should be worried about Bush. They all should be.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:05 pmMake sure these wonderful responses get to representatives Monday AM as loud, strong and constant as we were on Dubai..we can do it.
I say “Beam the up Scottie” get this rapture done with…the world will be left a much more tolerant place.
Yup I do believe Bush has gone over the edge. It feels like it is us vs. them…
April 9th, 2006 at 4:05 pminstead of Americans working with our government to stay strong.
Leonard,
I wrote my elected neocons yesterday. I’m sure Monday morning, an assistant will take down my address and smail mail me another form letter from my Congressman (the Senators just ignore me). :)
April 9th, 2006 at 4:07 pmGerald, regarding your earlier post:
The most recent creation of the Israeli State was preluded by emigrations of jews in the early 1900’s. They faced Arab resistance to buying property, and even resistance by British colonial authorities. They resorted to terrorist-type tactics back then. So, in a sense, they did ‘earn’ their country.
And, in a different sense, their country was purchased by the 5 million or so jews killed by the Nazis in WWII. Prior to the Allied powers carving up the middle east after WWII and the end of the Ottoman empire, there were no national borders in the conventional sense of the term.
Back to the thread:
You don’t just nuke the military targets, you nuke the planet. Remember, radiation from Chernobyl traveled around the globe. Even radiation from the depleted uranium shells we used In Iraq is being detected in Europe.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:10 pmSomehow, we need to get our representatives’(senators) attention. Letters don’t seem to do it, emails don’t seem to do it. Maybe massive call-ins to tie up congressional switchboards, overwhelm the phone lines with outraged, angry voters? Part of it, is due to the media. Even if you have an event to bring light to a situation, the main stream media ignores you, so the rest of the country doesn’t know they have like-thinking individuals across the country. “United we stand, divided we fall”., and they don’t want us standing.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:15 pmCorporate media - weapon of mass DISTRACTION!
April 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pmSounds like a good plan. Iran then North Korea then Syria then Lebanon for good measure then Palestine then Canada (they’re too nice) then Texas for a self destruct I told you so to leave me alone…
April 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pm#54: Remember, radiation from Chernobyl traveled around the globe. - - BushCo has that covered too. They’re going to go ahead with building the wall to keep out illegal immigrants and the DHS has assured the administration that the wall will also filter out unwanted carcinogens, radiation and allergens.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pmSpeaking of Dr. Strangelove :)…
here’s my take on Sy Hersh’s blockbuster and Bush’s messianic zeal.
And this is one I wrote yesterday about the madness of the Unitary Executive before the latest Iran story broke.
…and let them go after Shy Hersh, he’s earned more credibility than the entire Administration combined.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:22 pmLet me get this straight, supermushroom (and it would be nice if *you* would).
You claim that “only Christians understand peace” even as you advocate the most violent, inhumane action possible against others who you would know, if you were capable of understanding even the basic tenets of Christianity, are God’s creation.
The best thing you could possibly do for the world would be to commit yourself. Reread what you wrote. See the problem? Please, please, see the problem.
God save us from false Christians–and violence-loving, hate-filled racists–like you. It’s a wonder you haven’t been smited yet.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:26 pmIt’s too bad that those officers who are so fed up can’t see another solotion besides resigning. A military coup might be the most democratic thing that can do right now.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:29 pmI wonder if this is a ploy to get Iran to follow the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war. Provoke them (Iran) into doing something foolish so that we have a legitimate reason to retaliate. Or just make it look like Iran did it - either way would probably work for the current administration. Maybe they are going to paint a nuke with the UN colors and fly it over Iran!
April 9th, 2006 at 4:34 pmThis is a perfect scenario for the neocons. They bomb (or nuke) Iran, the Iranians then relaliate by slaughtering the US soldiers in Iraq and start disrupting the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz. With the deaths of tens of thousands of troops and $10/gallon of gas, the sheeple will go along with any plan that: 1) Pays the Iranians back for defending themselves and 2) gets the price of gas back down. Busco’s plan won’t accomplish the latter, but that’s what they’ll promise. The MSM will beat the drums for a draft and more atttacks on Iran ceaselessly, and the typical moron-American will go for it.
The real wild card in all of this is how Russia and China react. If they decide that enough is enough with the US bullying the entire world, then “Hello to WWIII” - a nice little nuclear soiree coming to a neighborhood near you.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:34 pmFed Up Vet, I also though a possible military coup, but then after thinking further, it can be done without an actual coup. The military swears loyalty to uphold the Constitution, right? Not the president. The military should institute “work to rule”. They should just say NO! to unconstitutional actions and invoke their duty to uphold the constitution.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI am wondering today if there is any one group, organization or force able to stop the lunacy of the few stupid angry white men with their fingers poised over the buttons.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:39 pm……….Go see the movie V for Vendetta…………………..
(PS) I am male, white, and angry……………………
QUOTE: “It is time for senior military leaders to discard caution in expressing their views and ensure that the President hears them clearly.â€
Yes. Like, “if you don’t screw your head back on straight we will instigate a coup d’etat and take over this godamned administration by force in order to set it on the right track. Get it?”
Let’s hope THAT’s what some of the guys in the Pentagon are thinking.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:40 pmExcellent posts all. I notice for the most part there is very little dissent
April 9th, 2006 at 4:51 pmHoly smolly, no wonder President Bush did not deny he believed in Armageddon. Bush isn’t the only one that might take a pre-emptive strike (God was that stupid or what).
No one should ever use nuclear weapons, and those that do, should be condemned by the world. Once was enough, now lets puts the dangerous toys away.
Is Cheney hiding out in his bunker shadow government again? I don’t want good people to resign over this, I want them to stay and keep some semblance of sanity in this administration, in our government. If good people leave, Bush replaces them with incompetents or nutty people.
Can our country, can the world, really stand another 3 years of this administration?
April 9th, 2006 at 4:54 pmAs long as Dick Cheney…er GWBush remains the President, there is no doubt that the U.S. will nuke Iran before November. The MSM is almost completely ignoring the run up to war with Iran that is literally identical to pre-Iraq. The MSM and the American public are very stupid in failing to see that Iraq is happening all over agin–except with far greater consequences this time.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
April 9th, 2006 at 4:54 pmSunday Talk Buzz: Cokie wants nukes!
Right Now on LCL
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April 9th, 2006 at 4:57 pmThey should have resigned a long time ago, before sending the young men and women into harms way, for fictious reasons. They are Christofascists, trying to have another “Crusade.”
April 9th, 2006 at 5:02 pmThey should have resigned a long time ago, before sending the young men and women into harms way, for fictious reasons. They are Christofascists, trying to have another “Crusade.”
April 9th, 2006 at 5:02 pm[…] have another source of information regarding the end of the world. Yep. dubya actually has the Nuclear Option on the Table for Iran. and our top Military leaders are threatening to resign if it remains. […]
April 9th, 2006 at 5:12 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire
You seemed to have forgotten to mention the British partitioning and the forced removal of arabs from their homes and being marched to Jordon. You also seemed to have forgotten about the U.N. supporting an official partition except for the arabs. You also didnt mentin British outlawing the entry of european jewish immigrants into the arab lands because of the trouble it would cause in the already agitated populace that was fighting amongst themselves. After WWII most of the jewish population snuck into the area against British efforts.
That is quite a bit different from the people rising up against a king and winning their freedom.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:23 pmThere is another option, maybe. First, we had that “roadmap” which was designed as part of the strategy. And now we have Israel surrounded, by Hamas, Al Qaeda, Hizbullah, etc. And Israel has been told: hands off. Hands off. Suddenly they are allowed to make retaliatory strikes. Why now? With Iran they are now going the “diplomatic route”, however, they “aint SPPPPEAKING’!!!! This is the silent treatment. Next they may allow Israel some retaliatory strikes, nothing with nukes, though. Noooooo! Not part of the plan. Not at all. After those retaliatory strikes, coming upon a series of blusterspeak by Iran, and more of the same by the Bushclan, Bush will WARN ISRAEL, and tell Iran to give up that nuke-business, or else. And Iran will say, yeah, but if we do THAT, you just saw what Israel did to us, noooooo, we ain’t gonne do that. Then the U.S. says to Israel, give up all your nukes, and Iran, you do too. Iran says, Israel first. So, Israel goes first. And what have we got? Israel surrounded by Al Qaeda, Hizbollah, Hamas, Lebanon and Syria in cahoots against it, and IRAN, still with the nukes. Hahaaaaa, Armageddon scenario. Enemy from the North (Iran + Syria/Lebanon), and flanked on all sides by Al Qaeda. The world is coming together, and boom, pooof, paff, off go the Christians, on a great cloud of fire, towards Heaven. Well, let me stop right here.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:26 pmYvonne, have another brandy!
April 9th, 2006 at 5:35 pmGee a few war criminials might resign if asked to commit more crimes?
It’s obviously not a matter of principles since our uniformed thugs have shown that they have none it must be that even their disease ridden brains realize the world would become unsafe for them and thier half witted children.
Comment by Ken
The way the US military works is you NEVER refuse an order unless it violates the US Constitution or Human Rights. Now you can say Iraq violated human rights, but a military officer is not going to make the ultimate decision to disobey based on anything less than absolute black and white disdinction. And since a large part of the country did not make that disdinction you cannot be blaming the military themselves. Unlike the military rulers around Japans emporer during WWII Americas military is kept subserviant to civilian rulers…as well they should be… A military coup in America would be wrong WRONG!. It is the responsiblity of WE THE PEOPLE to take that step and it would be the obligation of the military to support us as long as it was an obvious uprising of most of the people… if it is only half of the people (think civil war) the military is going to side with the federal government and follow orders.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:40 pmRight now I think Iran knows that any outbreak of hostilities will be a major disadvantage to the United States. It may take millions of deaths and untold suffering to finally bring an end to the war criminal clique that has infected American politics for so long. Just look what it took to finally bring Hitler and Co. down- almost the complete destruction of Europe and many millions of deaths.
If and/or when the rest of the world finally decides it necessary to start attacking American people and infrastructure, Americans will finally get the chance to experience the type of victimization that their government has spread worldwide for many years. It is always the innocent civilian that suffers most in any war, while the real behind-the-scenes protagonists(like the present neo-con crowd) always escape the situation and set up another parasite war cell in another unsuspecting nation, ready to start the process all over again!
What this world needs is PEACE, not war. The people cry for peace, regardless of any “terrorist” event. If an American group sets off a bomb in some other nation and kills a thousand people, does this justify that nation attacking American cities and people who had nothing to do with the bombing. Of course not, but this is exactly what Bush and Co. are doing. In fact, our CIA, leaders and military HAVE been responsible for millions of deaths of innocent people around the world since WW2.
Iran reminds me of Harry Callahan(Clint Eastwood) in the movie “Dirty Harry”- “Go ahead, make my day!”
April 9th, 2006 at 5:46 pmIs it just me, or does the insanity of this administration grow daily and at an exponential rate?
Let’s recap, here. It’s worth noting that we now know that the Bush administration had its heart set on an invasion of Iraq from day-one. I won’t speculate as to the significance of 9/11 in this matter - this isn’t a conspiracy theory, this is an analysis. They wanted to invade Iraq from the start, and with or without 9/11 they would’ve played the WMD card in order to convince the American people - our proud, ignorant countrymen - that it was necessary. Iraq has now been demolished, and is by all accounts teetering on the brink of an all-out civil war which we and the other coalition forces will not be able to contain.
The administration didn’t have a clue, it didn’t have a plan, and it didn’t have a care in the world. It went and invaded Iraq anyway, for whatever reasons they make have - take your pick - and now it’s mission accomplished. Now we know something else. They’ve been giving Iran eyes the entire time, and now they have the perfect excuse to invade. It’s already been implied if not stated outright that Bush plans for Iran - not Afghanistan, not Iraq, but Iran - to be his legacy. What a legacy it shall be.
Take heed, people. The war train is already rolling down the tracks at full speed, and it’s barrelling toward Iran without abandon. Our voices will not be heard, as they are not listened to and are consistently overwhelmed by the voices of the ignorant, and reason lay dead next to disco and chivalry in the graveyard of trends gone past. We will be decieved time and again, and we will be oppressed; the truth will be hidden away, vaulted and shielded from prying eyes and minds hungry for truth and justice. The next phase in this neverending war for the Middle East - the Iran conflict - will begin, and it’s not a matter of ‘if’ but ‘when’.
By the end of next year, Iran will also lay in ruin alongside Iraq and Afghanistan. Irradiated ruins and smouldering wells of molten glass will dot the countryside. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people will die, if not immediately then amid the aftermath of our combined nuclear-air assault. We will be hated, all of us, for the crimes of our beloved leaders. To the ignorant, this will be America’s greatest triumph. How will you choose to see it?
Sadly, for us peons, with our tiny wallets and large brains, there is very little we can do when our entire country and all three branches of its government has been dominated by maniacs that endorse the notion of a unitary executive - a dictator, in layman’s terms. Perhaps a campaign to evacuate Iran would be more fruitful than attempting a regime change here at home.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:48 pmThink about what would happen if Bush used these “tiny” nuclear weapons against Iraq. (1) The U.S. will have perpetrated a sneak attack on a country that didn’t attack us. (2) More countries in the Middle East and elsewhere will want nuclear weapons, knowing that if they don’t have them they are subject to a sneak attack fronm the U.S. (3) It will further destabilize the Middle East, and threaten to bring down the governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, which would mean the Islamic radicals could take over both of those countries. (4) In order to prevent an Islamic radical takeover, Saudi Arabia would denominate all oil sales in euros, from dollars now. This would be a big blow to the U.S. economy, and would cause Bush present $552 billion annual deficit to explode, to possibly $800 billion or more, because interest rates would go up. The dollar would no longer be the premier currency on Earth. (5) The Iranians would be legally and morally justified in retaliating against the United States. According to international law, they would have that right. You wanna bet they would not exercise it?
April 9th, 2006 at 6:14 pmFinally, (6) it would nOT stop Iran from possessing nukes. It would merely delay it. So this Bush attack, like the Bush attack on Iran, would ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.
“..The way the US military works is you NEVER refuse an order ..”
that was true with the SS as well not to mention the Indonesian troops in Iryan Jara, the Chinese in Tinianmen square etc.
When we signed the UN charter after WW II it was required that part of the UCMJ was altered so that individual’s with in the military became responsible for crimes committed while obeying illegal orders.
Under those same rules “preventive” wars are illegal. Under certian narrowly defined circumstances “preemptive” wars are allowed.
Preemptive being if an enemy country is massing troops on the border with a immenent intent to attack one can preemptively attack as a matter of self defense.
Preventive wars being attacking a country because someday at some time some country MIGHT attack is illegal.
Starting a war in the name of “regime” change because you don’t like somebody else’s government is criminial. That was Hitlers excuse in attacking Poland in Sept 39.
Superior officers are to be held to these standards. The administration has admitted that the war was started to effect “regime” change, most recently by Condi Rice in Britian.
The point of these rules was to prevent Rogue and criminial elements that may have seized control of a government from issueing “legal” orders to start an illegal war.
By supporting and engaging in the Iraq debacle the military has violated their oaths, besmirched the honor of our country and shown their ethical cowardice to become war criminials.
If there is any justice in the universe the dead ones are next to their philospical brothers from the SS frying and the live ones will be in a war criminial docks.
The Nuremberg defense of “Just obeying orders” is unacceptable and discredited. If you wish to resurrect it first go back and apoligize to Tojo and Eichmann since we tried them for crimes they committed while “just obeying orders”
April 9th, 2006 at 6:22 pm#74, I didn’t forget, I just gave the barest of sketches. Of course, the dispute over Israel dates back a few thousand years. I just mentioned a few highlights from about 1920 to date. The carving up of the middle east post WWII is way too much to discuss fully here. But thank you for your comments, it does add to a fuller picture.
A bigger question might be: How much longer is China, Russia and the European Union going to tolerate the United States before THEY decide to initiate a preemptive strike to remove a leader who has massive stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, orders the torture, even to the death, of captured prisoners, holds foreign nationals indefinately without a trial, invades a sovereign nation, and threatens to use nuclear weapons?
cue: “Jeopardy Theme Song”
April 9th, 2006 at 6:28 pmAny soldier who vows loyalty to any president, instead of the constituion and the American people is misguided to say the least.
April 9th, 2006 at 6:32 pm[…] The plans were brought to light by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh in this extraordinary just-published New Yorker article (and this morning on CNN). I highly recommend reading the full article, in which he details the alarming behind-the-scenes push within the U.S. administration to destroy Iran’s nuclear program, with the ultimate goal of regime change. Hersh states in the article that  […]
April 9th, 2006 at 6:37 pmIran has conventional forces of over 500M, a least 700 short and medium range missles, a Russian trained fighter force of about 200 tactical fighters, three submarines outfitted with the most advanced torpedoes in the world and large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons– not to mention a populace that is strongly nationalist. Add to that mix Iranians lliving in NE Iraq, , a massive pro Iranian insurgent force in Iraq which has us stalemated, and a terror network we haven’t been able to crack after thrity years of trying– one which wil readily merge with Al-Queda if Iran is attacked.
Consider also that Iran has lots of support from East European Muslims as well as support from Russia and just signed a multi billion dollar oil deal with China who will NOT stand by if its oil resources are threatened. And then there’s our very shaky economic situation with regard to China and several OPEC nations– all they have to is threaten to move to petro euros and we shake.
Bush really wants to take this enemy on? He will be starting WW III. And Israel will be fried along with Iran.
But what does he care– he and the Bush Crime Syndicate can wait for Jesus to return in their bunkers while the American middle-class spirals into an economic maelstrom. It’s amazing how much protection oil, drug and arms money can buy.
…”How do you like your blue-eyed boy, Mr. Death?”
April 9th, 2006 at 6:44 pmNow we have a lunatic Baby Caligula who is threatening to use nuclear weapons for the first time since Nagasaki. Not only that, he is threatening to use atomic weapons on a country which has not attacked or even threatened to attack the United States or its allies. This kind of insanity has got to end and it’s got to end soon or it ain’t gonna be Apocolypse…later.
April 9th, 2006 at 6:47 pmwho the hell is seymor hersch and why in gods name should i listen to him. he’s just as kooky as pat buchanan or bill cristol
April 9th, 2006 at 6:56 pmHow is it that government sanctioned killers can plan and plot the wholesale destruction of unknown men, women, children with the destroying of their cities and poisoning their earth forever, receive a paycheck of my tax dollars, while I could have my name listed for observation by these same psychopaths for wearing a T-shirt printed with: “Make Peace…Not War”?
The wrong people have the keys to our jails!
Stefan
April 9th, 2006 at 7:12 pm#85 iran is funding the radicals in iraq because they know it took the USA 100 hours the first time and 2 weeks the second time to wipe out the conventional forces. iran and iraq fought to a standstill for 10 years. iran knows in a outright fight it will be over real soon. terrorist roadside bombings are the only way to fight our troops. you give iran too much credit. this is why iran is stepping up their nuke program.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:20 pm#87
April 9th, 2006 at 7:21 pmYou exhibit how little you know.
#78 you almost sound like you hope those things happen to us
April 9th, 2006 at 7:22 pmI WAS PONDERING WHAT TO DO TO GET THESE FREAKS OUT OF THERE. It is obvious that, even if the Democrats regain the House this November, as seems likely, they are too gutless to impeach Bush and Cheney, and too afraid of offending the very people who detest all Democrats and would never vote against a Republican anyway. Plus the Democrats won’t get the Senate back, and all Republicans would vote party-line for Bush in an impeachment trial anyway. You need 67 of 100 senators to expel Bush, and that woudl not happen.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:23 pmSo how to derail the Bush gang’s mad agenda?
I thought the 25th Amendment might be the solution. That would allow several Cabinet members to temporarily depose Bush due to mental incapacity to carry out the duties of his office. There is no doubt that the mental incapacity is there. We have 5 years of proof, starting with Bush in the Sarasota classroom on September 11 refusing to work after our towers in Manhattan were attacked.
An obvious problem is that this would make Cheney acting president. He is the Madman behind the Madman now, so this wouldn’t really change anything. And the 25th Amendment has no provision for removing the Acting President Cheney.
Then I looked up the 25th Amendment. Written in 1965, when another useless Texan was in the Oval Office, the amendment turns out to be absolutely useless. THE VICE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE MAJORITY OF THE “MAIN” CABINET MEMBERS THAT BUSH IS MENTALLY DISABLED! Cheney would never admit that.
So the lunatics are in charge of the asylum for another 33 months, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
The dominant paradigm is being subverted.
a ‘context shift’
read the words of a Lubbock, Texas ‘Republican.’
You take an oath to uphold the US Constitution, not the nitwit preznit.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:24 pm#90 well explain his credintials to me. just because he agrees with my side what makes him the poster boy. he sounds just as loony as the rights “experts”
April 9th, 2006 at 7:28 pmASHTON… SYDNEY HERSCH is the New Yorker writer and author who exposed the
April 9th, 2006 at 7:39 pmabhu ghraib prison scandal. he is respected among the military ranks and i’m sure has been listening to them alot!
[…] According to Seymour Hersh, members is the Joint Chiefs are about to resign because the White House wants to keep the option of using nulclear bunker-busters to take out Iran’s underground nuclear weapons facilities. HERSH: When the JCS, the Joint Chiefs and the planners then wanted to walk back that option [to use nuclear weapons], what happened is about three or four weeks ago, the White House — people in the White House, in the Oval Office, the Vice President’s office — said “No, let’s keep it in the plan. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.†They refuse to take it out. What I’m writing here is that if this isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. Again, let me make the point, you’re giving a range of options early in the planning, to be sure of getting rid of it, you give that option. … […]
April 9th, 2006 at 8:00 pmBecause the President has lost his credibility with the American people due to Iraq, I doubt very much that he can initiate action against Iran without certain things happening first. In my opinion, the situation would go something like this:
A) An American provocation in the Persian Gulf or inside Iran (remember Tonkin?) followed by a CONVENTIONAL weapons strike on Iran’s uranium processing facilities.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:08 pmB) Iran responds by creating havoc throughout the Middle East (Straight of Hormus, Iraq, Hezbollah, etc).
C) The use of tactical nuclear weapons by the US depends on how effective the Iranians are in their retaliation.
D) All Hell Breaks Loose!
The US military should not be put in a position where they believe they are obligated to make a political gesture. We citizens have an obligation to instruct the political process through our United States Congress. The US Congress has appropriations authority and can flip the switch on a moments notice–if we so instruct.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:08 pmMilitary officers tried a coup against Adolf Hitler in Germany, so it is not farfetched that some of our officers might try the same thing?! The Congress by not impeaching Bush are leading this nation to turmoil > protests that could turn into riots, labor strikes, or even military coup!
April 9th, 2006 at 8:14 pmOnce an option is put on the table there will need to be plans to logistically support it. Once all support is in place the urge to actualy use it becomes overbearing and it will be used whether justified or not. The USA will not allow itself to become the first strike victim.This will happen once the invasion begins and then there will be no turning back. The muslim world will band together and the USA will be in a 100 year war of constant attack from many different areas. There will be no boundries. The western empire ( USA) will be destroyed as a nation.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:16 pmSorry to get off topic, but this was just worth sharing (’cause I think it explains why 37% of the country still supports Bush):
Bill Nye, the harmless children’s edu-tainer known as “The Science Guy,” managed to offend a select group of idiot adults in Waco when he suggested that the moon does not emit light.
As even most elementary-school graduates know, the moon reflects the light of the sun but produces no light of its own.
But don’t tell that to the good people of Waco, who were “visibly angered by what some perceived as irreverence,” according to the Waco Tribune.
Nye was in town to participate in McLennan Community College’s Distinguished Lecture Series. He gave two lectures on such unfunny and adult topics as global warming, Mars exploration, and energy consumption.
But nothing got people as riled as when he brought up Genesis 1:16, which reads: “God made two great lights — the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.”
The lesser light, he pointed out, is not a light at all, but only a reflector.
At this point, several people in the audience stormed out in fury. One woman yelled “We believe in God!” and left with three children, thus assuring that people across America would read about the incident and conclude that Waco is as nutty as they’d always suspected.
http://www.sploid.com/ news/ 2006/ 04/ battling_the_je.php
April 9th, 2006 at 8:22 pm[…] Watch Video […]
April 9th, 2006 at 8:25 pmMass resignations will just result in “yes” men being promoted into thier places. Anyone ready for an American military coup?
April 9th, 2006 at 8:26 pmAs for being on topic,
From Buzzflash: The White House believes “a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government.  Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, “The most worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision.â€
http://www.newyorker.com/ fact/ content/ articles/ 060417fa_fact
The Bush Administration, while publicly advocating diplomacy in order to stop Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon, has increased clandestine activities inside Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air attack. Current and former American military and intelligence officials said that Air Force planning groups are drawing up lists of targets, and teams of American combat troops have been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect targeting data and to establish contact with anti-government ethnic-minority groups. The officials say that President Bush is determined to deny the Iranian regime the opportunity to begin a pilot program, planned for this spring, to enrich uranium.
American and European intelligence agencies, and the International Atomic Energy Agency (I.A.E.A.), agree that Iran is intent on developing the capability to produce nuclear weapons. But there are widely differing estimates of how long that will take, and whether diplomacy, sanctions, or military action is the best way to prevent it. Iran insists that its research is for peaceful use only, in keeping with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and that it will not be delayed or deterred.
There is a growing conviction among members of the United States military, and in the international community, that President Bush’s ultimate goal in the nuclear confrontation with Iran is regime change. Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has challenged the reality of the Holocaust and said that Israel must be “wiped off the map.†Bush and others in the White House view him as a potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. “That’s the name they’re using. They say, ‘Will Iran get a strategic weapon and threaten another world war?’ â€
A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was “absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb†if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,†and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.â€
April 9th, 2006 at 8:30 pmloyalty to Adolf Hitler too.
last words
flip flop, it never stops.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:56 pmGet rid of Bush. Pick a Democrat. But pick a good one. Please STOP KERRY. Pick another Democrat.
Saw Kerry on Meet the Press today. The man will never get over his flip-flopping stigma. He deserves it.
Kerry spoke out of both sides of his mouth on whether there should be a timetable for withdrawal for Iraq. In his Presidential campaign he said we should not leave until we are successful. Now he says we should pull out if Iraq doesn’t shape up right away. Fine, but his explanation for his change of heart was totally incomprehensible. He wouldn’t admit there was any inconsistency.
The man can’t control himself. He also can never stop talking and trying to steal the spotlight. He is haughty. He uses haughty language. He is not that smart. His report cards in college were on par with Bush and in his campaign against Bush except for the first debate he drew even or lost to Bush. His positions are basically incomprehensible and he communicates poorly. Let’s pray he’s marginalized.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:57 pm” He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,†and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.†”
Saving Iran by poisoning the countryside for millennia? By contaminating the groundwater forever (for all intents and purposes)? By hosing neighboring countries with radioactive particles and wafting them into the atmosphere if the nukes break the surface?
Courage has nothing to do with it, although Bush is so mortally stupid he may only see it in those terms. He has NO RIGHT to use nuclear weapons unless the USA’s existence is in peril. Doesn’t he have any fucking idea what’s involved with nukes? Half-lives, contamination, Three Mile island, Chernobyl, etc.??
Probably not, since that involves “reading” about “history” and “science” and “biology,” which are all communist left-wing egghead theories anyway (hey, gravity is just a theory). If he really thinks he has the right to use nuclear weapons electively, and does so, then his life wouldn’t be worth a nickel.
I would support a military coup if they decided the only way to stop him was by extraordinary means. Anyone that insane must be imprisoned.
I can’t believe this is even being discussed at this level of seriousness. I CAN’T FUCKING BELIEVE IT!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 9:01 pmThey left the k out of Waco er… Wacko, home of David Koresh, and Baylor University, a boobtist university.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:08 pmTheres a saying, “wouldn’t piss on him if he was burning”, which i think accurately describes how >90% of the rest of the world now feels about the good ol USA. Which is not good news for a nation running low on oil, gas, water, land, fish, money, allies, and credibility.
Sure its the creeps at the top who have done most of the damage, via decades of genocidal foriegn policy and institutionalised greed and corruption, but hey, you let them do it, you bought their schlock and still follow their orders, so you and your kids too will all get bit parts in ‘Murica’s Great Leap Backwards, which i imagine the rest of the world will show only polite interest in. Have a nice Collapse.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:08 pmPost 106 > Sen. John Kerry has the number one top rating in the Senate of supporting Israel, so he does whatever Israel wants, which is why he cannot advocate the removal of our troops from Iraq, and why he will back Bush on attacking Iran! He will complain if Bush nukes Iran, but at the same time he will do nothing to stop it either! Also since Kerry is a Skull and Bones member, like Bush, he basically belives in the same globalist puke! Another Senator who does whatever Israel wants is Hillary Clinton, so do not expect her to prevent an attack on Iran, or to complain if Bush uses nukes > she will be silent! Sen. Lieberman and Sen. Biden will also back Bush on attacking Iran because they are both certified idiots! Sen. Feinstein, since she is Jewish, will also back war on Iran and several other Democrat Senators as well! All but a few of the Republican Senators and GOP Reps will back Bush on nuking Iran too!
The American citizenry are being betrayed by the Congress, so global WWIII is soon!
April 9th, 2006 at 9:26 pmThere will come a day when every country in the civilized world decides that they have had enough of the United States government, and when that day finally come you can bet your ass that there will be plenty of nations in their “Calition of the Willing”. Can you say China,Latin America, Middle East, Russia, and European Union versus the United States? George W. Bush has screwed us all for decades to come.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:27 pmNuclear bunker busters are a horrible idea. Nuclear warheads have thus far been detonated above ground or so deeply below ground as to contain the entire blast. A bunker buster would induce unprecedented fallout. Unprecedented. Hiroshima and Nagasaki’s death tolls would pale in comparison. It would truly constitute an act of genocide. Conventional strikes are adequate, although even these are quite arguably ill advised.
As an aside, were Hitler alive today, he’d most likely liken his adversaries to Hitler.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:29 pmIn Addition To Hersh’s Article, READ THIS
An online excerpt from an article by Philip Giraldi, in the American Conservative. It indicates that:
April 9th, 2006 at 9:37 pm(1) the U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM) has been asked to draw up concrete, short term contingency plans for an attack on Iran, to involve “a large-scale air assault employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons” and
(2) that Vice President Cheney’s office has specifically told the Pentagon that the military should be prepared for an attack on Iran in the immediate aftermath of “another 9-11.” That’s “not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States,” notes Geraldi.
Can it get madder than this? The neocons’ plans for a total reorganization of the “Greater Middle East” have been plain for some time now. Many have been warning against the prospect of an expansion of the Iraq War into Syria and Iran. You’d think that reality would smack these guys in the face and they’d call off anything so stupid. But they apparently think that by using conventional and nuclear weapons (first time any nation will do that since Nagasaki); by employing the Mujahadeen Khalq; by activating agents in place to organize demonstrations (as the CIA did so successfully in Iraq in 1953); by attacking from Azerbaijan they can actually pull this off. Do they even realize that southern Iraq and Iran constitute the heartland of historical Shiism, and that an attack on Iran will negate any goodwill among Shiites U.S. forces have acquired in Iraq?
Maybe, here and there within the military itself, the madmen meet with quiet resistance. “Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning,” writes Giraldi, “are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack” That’s encouraging, surely. Good that senior Air Force officers should be appalled at their orders. Surely they must ask questions, such as:
What do they mean by “another 9-11″? Could any, even small-time terrorist act in the U.S. (say, killing 52 in the Boston subway) be the signal for us to start bombing Iran?
Does the Vice President’s office anticipate this second 9-11 sometime soon?
Would it be moral to attack Iran in the aftermath of a terrorist attack if Iran had nothing to do with it?
Actually, why would Iran ever give the U.S. pretext for an attack?
Am I going to be complicit in war crimes if I’m involved in this planned attack? What will this do for my long-term reputation?
Will our troops in Iraq suffer as a result of the hatred for the U.S. another unprovoked attack is likely to generate?
Am I going to be a part of a military project which will have no support anywhere in the world, except maybe in Israel?
But the sentence finishes “—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections.”
That could change quickly, of course, if the Bush administration starts to sink under the weight of accumulating scandals. But the plan for the Iran attack is for it to come quickly, while the nation is in a state of shock—apparently in some near-future scenario—so that all those brewing scandals get placed on the back burners. The propaganda set-up’s already been performed as well as possible. There’s a list of charges against Iran, just like there was against Iraq. If they happen, President Bush will explain the Iran attacks as strikes reluctantly undertaken, as a last resort, to protect Americans from terrorist threats emanating out of Iran. The STRATCOM guys will know that’s not true, and have to live with the knowledge.
Dr Strangelove!
April 9th, 2006 at 9:41 pmThe Islamic World must finally wake up, get over its problems, and unite. This is an obvious move by the zionists and their minions to exercise hegemony over the Muslim world. Our enemies are clear: the are the zionists themselves, as well as the christian zionists we have in the US, who are infatuated with the idea of the so-called “rapture” and who have overwhelmingly no knowledge of classical Hebrew to read the original text from which their botched and mistranslated English scriptures have been digested by the intestines of history and finally delivere dinto their churches today, like the soggy turd that they amount to, at best.
What the Muslim world must do, as I said, is unite fully. Then we must wipe out te zionist entity from the map, and clean house at home, all across from Ad-Dar Al-Baydha’ to Jakarta and beyond. The zionists and those christian ass-lickers who aid them must be exterminated, pure and simple. Add to them the Baathists and all the America-backed dictatorial regimes in the Middle East. Like Hitler tried, but much more efficient, and on a much greater scale. No torture, no labor camps, just massive banks of ovens in an archipelago of extermnation facilities running 24/7 until the last one of those vermin is incinerated. A few of these camps might usefully be set up in the American south, where there is a particularly “red” christian zionist infection. They must be exterminated as well. Perhaps their bodies could be used to fire power plants for a time being.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:57 pmSYDNEY HERSCH is the New Yorker writer and author… - - Any relation to Seymour Hersh?
April 9th, 2006 at 10:01 pmYou would think by all this posturing by Bush and his right-wing cohorts, that you guys have an election coming up in November.
April 9th, 2006 at 10:05 pmI see post 115 is trying to stir up anti-Muslim hatred in America, by claiming that Muslims should kill all Zionists and Christians > ignore what he said, because he probably is really a Bush agent who wants to incite justification for blowing Iran to smithereens?!
April 9th, 2006 at 10:19 pmSeymour Hersh has been a journalist for 40 years. He exposed the My Lai incident in Viet Nam. He has earned his credentials.
Journalist, born in Chicago, Illinois, USA. He studied at the University of Chicago and is recognized as an aggressive, highly successful investigative reporter. He worked variously for United Press International, the Associated Press, the New York Times, the Atlantic Monthly, and The New Yorker, and played key roles in exposing evidence of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, domestic spying by the Central Intelligence Agency, and other stories, winning a 1970 Pulitzer Prize and many other major awards. His books include The Price of Power (1983), a scathing portrait of Henry Kissinger. RELATED WORKS
April 9th, 2006 at 10:40 pmBooks
1983 The Price of Power
1983 The Target is Destroyed
The Samson Option
1997 The Dark Side of Camelot
#119 is directed to #94
April 9th, 2006 at 10:41 pmDO YOU PEOPLE THINK ANYTHING IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR? COMMUNISM DIED MARXISM IS A JOKE STOP YOUR BITCHIN BUSH IS THERE FOR 3 1/2 MORE YEARS. GET OVER IT. NO IMPEACHMENT NO JAIL AND AFTER NOV. WHEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE REMAIN IN THE SAME HANDS AS TODAY. YOU ALL GET TO BITCH FOR 2 MORE YEARS. 2008 SOME OTHER CONSERITVE WILL TAKE OVER AND WAWAWAWAWA. GET A JOB AND SHUT UP
April 9th, 2006 at 10:54 pmBush: messianic or just a mess?
April 9th, 2006 at 11:07 pm#123 ISNT THAT CENSORSHIP WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHTS NOT VERY INCLUSIVE OF YOU I GUESS PROGRESSIVE MEANS ONLY IF I THINK LIKE YOU……..OK LET ME TRY…….USA BAD USA BAD NOPE NOT WORKING IF WERE SO BAD 11 MILLION MEXICANS WOULDNT WANT TO BE HERE IF WERE SO BAD HOW DOES EVERYONE GET TO HAVE A COMPUTER FOR POSTING IF WERE SO BAD WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE WHEN I WAS A KID THERE WAS A BUMPER STICKER “AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT” SO GET OUT AND MAKE ROOM FOR A IMMIGRANT WHO WANTS TO LIVE HERE AND BE DAMN HAPPY ABOUT IT.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:08 pmTHE TRUTH HURTS. 11000000 UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS CANT BE WRONG. THIS IS ONE GREAT PLACE TO LIVE. HEY AND THE MUST LIKE BUSH THEY HAD A CHOICE AND THEY CAME EVEN THOUGH HE’S THE PRESIDENT. GET OUT SO THEY CAN LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE. BE THEY’ED BE ABLE TO POST W/O USING PROFANITY. WHEN YOU START CURSING YOU’VE ALREADY LOST THE FIGHT.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:23 pm#128 YELLING I’M NOT YELLING I’M TYPING. DO YOU YELL AT YOUR COMPUTER? DOESNT GET OFFENDED WHEN YOU YELL AT IT? MY COMPUTER JUST SITS THERE AND MAKES ME TYPE. I GOTTA UPGRADE.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:28 pmThe fundamental problem with the U.S. launching a preemptive air strike against Iran is that China and Russia, which are both nuclear nations, would view this as an act of war against them. They have oil deals with Iran.
What would transpire if we were to bomb Iran? The most likely scenario is that China and Russia would start fueling their ICBMs. In response, the U.S. would then go into a state of nuclear readiness. In other words, the world would be on the brink of nuclear war. In that scenario, everybody loses.
I would certainly hope that if ordered to bomb Iran, U.S. military commanders would refuse. There are, in fact, provisions in the U.S. Constitution for declaring the President and Vice President to be mentally unfit to hold office. Their authority could then be superseded by Congress.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:32 pmAs an active duty Marine with 22 years of military service, I can say that I am fed up with this administration’s abuse of the military. Even the VFW has been duped, hoodwinked, and bamboozled into believing that we have undertaken a worthy cause. See their resolution 440. All that was good about military service has been flushed down the toilet by the conduct of this current “war” based on lies and deceit, and the lining of pockets of numerous multi-national corporations and oil companies. Hopefully my grandchildren will find military service once again to be honorable. It’s pretty much all based on lies right now.
Please check out what this Marine has to say about war:
http://lexrex.com/ enlightened/ articles/ warisaracket.htm
Semper Fi,
Jeff
April 9th, 2006 at 11:50 pmThe Bush loving trolls who post on here that want to nuke Iran are low-lifes! Nobody who is sane would want to kill millions of people by dropping nukes on them, so those who desire nuclear war are certified insane! Those who think God will rapture them, after they advocated killing innocent men, women, and children, are in for a rude awakening > they will go straight to Hell and burn with Hitler! There is ZERO justification to bomb Iran into dust or glass!
April 9th, 2006 at 11:58 pmYELLING I’M NOT YELLING I’M TYPING.
Comment by TOMAS VERRA — April 9, 2006 @ 11:28 pm
For the newbies:
Re-read and edit your posting carefully before you post. Check the spelling, grammar, and capitalization. Typing in all capital letters usually denotes screaming or yelling.
Wikipedia: Netiquette
On topic:
Talk of the military being “on the edge” reminds me the poll showing that around 72% of the troops in Iraq are in favor of withdrawal within a year.
Will the commander-in-chief hear what his loyal troops have to say? (It is, of course, a rhetorical question)
April 9th, 2006 at 11:58 pm#136 pardon the caps lock.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:10 amHow long until We the People revolt to stop the Iran war?
April 10th, 2006 at 12:23 am#136 Gregor, i would think 100% of the troops would rather be home. but the majority believe in what they are doing in iraq.your not gonna see a m