Hersh: Our Military Is ‘Very Loyal to the President, But They’re Getting to the Edge’
Hersh: Our Military Is ‘Very Loyal to the President, But They’re Getting to the Edge’
This morning on CNN, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh addressed the uproar at the highest levels of the U.S. military over plans to launch a massive strike against Iran that would include nuclear weapons:
What I’m writing here is that if this [plan to use nukes] isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. … [O]ne thing about our military, they’re very loyal to the president, but they’re getting to the edge. They’re getting to the edge with not only Rumsfeld, but with Cheney and the President.
Hersh also addressed claims today by British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw that the idea of a nuclear strike on Iran is “completely nuts.” Hersh’s response: “He didn’t deny there’s serious planning about the military strike, is the point. He’s absolutely right about a nuclear option, but there is planning for conventional war.”
Full transcript:
HERSH: When the JCS, the Joint Chiefs and the planners then wanted to walk back that option [to use nuclear weapons], what happened is about three or four weeks ago, the White House — people in the White House, in the Oval Office, the Vice President’s office — said “No, let’s keep it in the plan. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.” They refuse to take it out. What I’m writing here is that if this isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. Again, let me make the point, you’re giving a range of options early in the planning, to be sure of getting rid of it, you give that option. …
BLITZER: Some senior military officers are prepared to resign?
HERSH: I’m saying if this isn’t walked back and if the President isn’t told that you cannot do it — and once the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, some senior members of the military say to the President, let’s get the nuclear option off the table, it will be taken off. He will not defy the military in a formal report. Unless something specific is told to the White House that you’ve got to drop the dream of a nuclear option, and that’s exactly the issue I’m talking about, people have said to me they would resign.
BLITZER: Do you want to name names?
HERSH: Are you kidding?
BLITZER: I’m giving you the opportunity.
HERSH: No. You know why? Because this is a punitive government right now. This is a government that pretty much has its back against the wall, as you’ve been saying all morning in iraq, and in the military — one thing about our military, they’re very loyal to the president, but they’re getting to the edge. They’re getting to the edge with not only Rumsfeld, but with Cheney and the President.
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Thank God for Seymour, is all I have to say.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:51 pmThe big question here, though, is whether this is just a Bush ploy to make the Iranians nervous, or whether there are actually people who want to go to war in Iran. As we know, it has long been believed that the U.S. is most powerful when its adversaries think it is unpredictable, rash, likely to act out violently without regard to the consequences. This may all be a plan to get the Iranians nervous enough to get serious about diplomacy.
The problem here is that it a) all the Iran talk takes the focus off of Iraq, and b) puts the fear of attack back on the brains of Americans, which is probably not a bad thing for the Right going into 06 elections. Unfortunately, a lot more people fear Iran getting a nuke in the next month or year (a virtual impossibility) than they do Bush going Dr. Strangelove on us.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:55 pmARE WE RESOLVED TO BRING PEACE TO THE MID-EAST ? IF YES, THERES NO BETTER WAY THAN WITH NUCLEAR DEVICES. ITS IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT GOD IS ON OUR SIDE. THE PERSIANS MUST BE MADE TO UNDERSTAND WHO IS BOSS. WE ARE. AMERICA. FOR NOW AND FOREVER.
ITS ONLY THEIR ARMY THAT WILL BE NUKED. I KNOW MANY LIBERALS PREFER A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION , BUT IMAGINE HOW WELL DIPLOMACY WIL GO WHEN THEY HAVE NO CHOICE ! AND YOU “KNOW” WE COULD USE A FEW LONG TERM IRANIAN BASES. G.W. BUSH WILL BE KNOWN IN THE FUTURE AS THE MAN WHO TURNED THE MID-EAST INTO AN AMERICAN PROPERTY. ITS BETTER THAN THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE…
AMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:56 pmMass resignations at a high level might wake a few people up. And then they will be free to speak out against the Cheney Administration.
April 9th, 2006 at 1:56 pmIf the factual calculation is such that Iran is becoming a legitimate threat, logic would conclude that Israel has a larger interest in seeing Iran’s fledgling nuclear program dismantled (by bombings). In fact, Israel has a demonstrated history of resolving such situations accordingly.
Additionally, if Israel has not yet concluded to make the strike, then it is hard to imagine the rationale being used by this administration that would warrant we precede Israel’s often and necessarily preemptive strategy. Certainly the threat to Israel from Iran, when coupled with the Palestinian election of a radical Hamas government, would far exceed any presumed threat to America.
If this administration goes forward with a US assault on Iran rather than to consult with and support Israel (as a silent & out of sight ally) in making any necessary strikes, then I would assert that it may be reasonable to conclude that the decision to initiate a US assault was simply another in a long string of failed strategic and political calculations that have failed to reverse the ever sliding support for the President’s positions and for his struggling party. Perhaps the military brass sees it no differently?
http://www.thoughttheater.com
April 9th, 2006 at 1:57 pmAMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
Comment by supermushroom
Who was it that had to flee Europe because of christian persecution? Oh ya the early Americans. Who invented the Iron Maiden? Oh ya the christians. Who murdered every man, woman, and child (jew, christian, and muslim) in Jerusalem during the first crusade? Oh ya christians. I sure hope you are being sarcastic because if you are serious you are nuts.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pm>
I’m almost certain Jon Stewart on the Daily Show posed the same question about Bush’s actions in the lead up to the Iraq war.
These guys ain’t subtle enough for that to be the case.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:02 pmDoes Americas military fight and die for America or Israel? Did israelis even earn their country? Or was it handed to them?
Who is Americas military loyal to? The U.S. Constitution or the president?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:04 pmThe question Stewart posed (got dropped from my post) : “The big question here, though, is whether this is just a Bush ploy to make the Iranians nervous, or whether there are actually people who want to go to war in Iran.”
April 9th, 2006 at 2:04 pmStanley Kubrick was WAY ahead of his time with “Dr.Strangelove.”
April 9th, 2006 at 2:09 pmMass resignations will awaken some citizens, but those in power will still be there.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:11 pm9)
This is no bluff. If it were someone other than a rightwing nut job in charge then it could be a bluff. But these religious crazies have been talking about turning the middle east into one big sheet of glass ever since I was old enough to remember them saying it. The end of the world is a GOOD thing in their minds. They hate the progress humanity has achieved. They do not want humanity to move forwards with science into somekind of “star trek” future where all humans work together. They WANT to see the end of the world and they are sick of waiting… I sure hope they have not infiltrated the US military as much as they have the republican party. It seems only the military has the balls and hopefully the cold calculating mentality of the cold war is still in them enough to moraly force them to take some kind of public action against this blant abandonment of the US policies towards the use of nuclear weapons. A first use of nuclear weapons is immoral. It goes against everything America has stood for since the end of WWII.
If these neo cons cannot convince ALL of America to risk their lives to take action against Iran then it is not that important. We are not idiots. If faced with a serious threat we will take action… it does not require lieing to us or tricking us into action. I have thus far not been convinced. And it does not take an elaborate fantasy to convince me …. just cold hard facts and a serious effort at taking drastic actions of face to face person to person diplomacy that have ended in failure…leaving no alternative, but military action…. THIS has not been done. So I am not convinced that bombing is all that is left…
April 9th, 2006 at 2:14 pmThat word ‘loyal’, where do you draw the line? It’s a trap word. If your friend turns out to be a killer, I guess your ‘dis-loyal’ when you cut the friendship. The bushgang uses ‘loyal’ as a weapon.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:20 pmAll resignations will do is allow more madmen neocoms to populate the military, withh fewer sane voices of dissent.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:25 pmMushroom Messaih, excellent graphics
April 9th, 2006 at 2:27 pmThe military are “getting to the edge,” eh?
Anybody read “Seven Days in May”?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:39 pmI like the part where Hersch says to Wold “are you kidding?”
I’ve wanted him to be asked that many times.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:40 pmWolf. The Beard. Whatever.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:41 pmGee a few war criminials might resign if asked to commit more crimes?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:43 pmIt’s obviously not a matter of principles since our uniformed thugs have shown that they have none it must be that even their disease ridden brains realize the world would become unsafe for them and thier half witted children.
Can’t we just (finally) deem Bush a crazy-assed bastard and have him relieved from duty? There seems to be plenty of evidence stacking up that this guy is not playing with a full deck.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:45 pmThe post by Gerald Gibson is right.
This is no bluff, so let’s not even try to make ourselves comfortable by entertaining that illusion.
If you read Sy Hersch’s New Yorker article, you’ll see that at least one GOP congressman and several defense department officials are worried about Bush’s “messianic” vision.
Put succinctly: The guy’s off his rocker.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:49 pmBush thinks he’s the second coming. I think we’ve all got a right to be afraid.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:53 pmBush thinks he’s the second coming.
Comment by willard — April 9, 2006 @ 2:53 pm
Even more so now that Jesus (Tom Delay) is about to be crucified…
April 9th, 2006 at 2:55 pmGerald Gibson – Excellent posts. Your insight should make the media ashamed of themselves.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:58 pmAll resignations will do is allow more madmen neocoms to populate the military, withh fewer sane”
All the more reason to reinstate the draft.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pmWell, the supersickie Christians are taking over the Air Force Academy… maybe they have taken over the Air Force altogether. Just what we need, zealots flying bombers. Just what the Iranian people need. Super sickie loonie BushCo. calling the shots. Geeze. If there were a God and that God happened to be a Good God, it might say, “Good God” what are these sickies trying to do? Then they could be raptured. And I get one of their mansions.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pmI’m actually serious. Isn’t there some way to deem him no longer fit to be Commander in Chief?
April 9th, 2006 at 2:59 pmI think it’s time for some drastic measures.
Jeff R-
Good point. In the novel and in the film the renegade military officer, General Scott, played by Burt Lancaster, wanted to overthrow the government because he thought it was too weak on foreign policy. Today the Bush administration is out of control, with very little checks and balances standing in the way of its grab for continuous war and power while many people are now hoping that the military can see the folly of what Bush is doing and will, if need be, refuse Bush’s orders to continue to wage war on countries which are not an imminent threat to the United States.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:00 pm#10: Stanley Kubrick was WAY ahead of his time with “Dr.Strangelove.†– - Actually, this administration has until now been a source of black humor like the type found in “Dr. Strangelove.” Unfortunately, BushCo is now like another far more sobering film released that same year, “Fail-Safe.”
April 9th, 2006 at 3:04 pmMany of my friends in uniform (Officers) barely tolerate the DOD much less Rummy and Bush. Its bad right now. The Army is wayyyyyyyyyyyy short of Capts and Majors. Any question as to why. The brass hang around the longest. We at the mid grade already have been smelling the BS coming down from the DOD and higher. Standby for an exodus of Officers at the mid level if this goes down. We, and even the ardent supporters of this administration know Iraq is a joke. We just want it to end and this administration simply cant figure out how. Most of us will tell you….just leave. Its that simple.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#14 jp So right. What better way to oust any high ranking military person who might stand in your way of obtaining world domination, and replace with other crazies who follow your psychotic visions. Martial law, here we come!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:08 pmWe, and even the ardent supporters of this administration know Iraq is a joke. We just want it to end and this administration simply cant figure out how. Most of us will tell you….just leave. Its that simple.
Comment by Will — April 9, 2006 @ 3:06 pm
So what will you do if they bomb Iran? Or try to turn America into a Polce State? On whose side will the military be – the People’s or the Administrations?
April 9th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#32 Good question. Hope we never have to find out!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pmWolf must have been disappointed that Hersh wasn’t cowed ironically enough, by Wolf’s rhetorical “here’s your chance to name names”.
Mr. Blitzer, you aren’t a journalist, and you don’t understand the concept of a whistleblower.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pmGood point. In the novel and in the film the renegade military officer, General Scott, played by Burt Lancaster, wanted to overthrow the government because he thought it was too weak on foreign policy. Today the Bush administration is out of control, with very little checks and balances standing in the way of its grab for continuous war and power while many people are now hoping that the military can see the folly of what Bush is doing and will, if need be, refuse Bush’s orders to continue to wage war on countries which are not an imminent threat to the United States.
Comment by Erroll — April 9, 2006 @ 3:00 pm
The only objection I heard was about using nukes. It seems they are all OK with waging war on contries that are not imminent threats to the US. So I guess when Bushco Inc. take the option off the table everyone will be perfectly happy to just blow the ever lovin’ crap out of Iran with conventional weapons instead. See the WH CAN compromise. The Murikan people will be happy then.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pmResignations? I think the President would LOVE some resignations. He’d be able to replace any resignee with whomever he pleases. He’s already repopulated the Supreme Court. I don’t want to see resignations. I’d rather see insubordination and people willing to go out on a limb with their careers. That would show loyalty. Walking away doesn’t show loyalty.
And Supermushroom, could you keep your capital letters down to the polite level? It’s not like your message and name don’t state your position with insufficient clarity. We get it.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:28 pmResignations? I think the President would LOVE some resignations. He’d be able to replace any resignee with whomever he pleases. He’s already repopulated the Supreme Court. I don’t want to see resignations. I’d rather see insubordination and people willing to go out on a limb with their careers. That would show loyalty. Walking away doesn’t show loyalty.
And Supermushroom, could you keep your capital letters down to the polite level? It’s not like your message and name don’t state your position with sufficient clarity. We get it.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:28 pm(sorry for the double post above — I had to change “insufficient” to “sufficient” and didn’t realize it had already gone through.)
April 9th, 2006 at 3:30 pmNobody I know or fly with wants a police state. Although its scary how far down that path we are going. I am an American citizen first. Not a military officer first. Hopefully the next administration will respect the military and not treat it as an endless body pool for personal use.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:33 pmAs I stated the best way out of Iraq is to just leave. The best policy with Iran is diplomacy. War will not and has not made this country safer the last 3 yrs. What most of you should take from this is that the only option we have is air power. We are simply way over extended to even think of a ground war with Iran.
There is no force level to support it and the country is simply too large. I cant see the administration making more than one or 2 large strikes if they pull the trigger on this. Politically it is such a bad call with our pathetic standing around the world already.
Very important column in Time today from retired Lt Gen Greg Newbold:
“It is time for senior military leaders to discard caution in expressing their views and ensure that the President hears them clearly.”
http://www.time.com/time/ magazin…1181587,00.html
April 9th, 2006 at 3:36 pmAMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
Comment by supermushroom
I do hope this is just being facetious….
April 9th, 2006 at 3:40 pmBush is certifiably nuts. He could not pass a psychological evaluation of any description. Cheney is equally bad, but in a different way. Smart evil. It is unfortunate for all of us that there is no way he can be forced into a psychological evaluation. They WILL use nukes if given the chance because they want population control, oil for power, appeasement of the so called Religious Right, etc. Amazingly, the religious hypocrites are advocating use of nukes and thus mass murder.
I think it should be pointed out to the potential pilots of planes that would be used to deliver nukes that they can be punished for war crimes just as easily as the Prez. They are Officers, they know right from wrong and they have to answer to World Courts for their actions. I suspect the “Top Officers” have already figured this out and are sweating a little under their hat bands.
No one ever threatens the use of Nuclear Weapons. The closest was JFK during the Cuban missile crisis and he only said he would retaliate with nukes if the USA was hit by nukes. A whole different ball game. Personally, I don’t see how the Secret Service, FBI, CIA and NSA can continue to serve this puke and his open aggression against the people of the world. We ALL are at risk with this nut case.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:41 pmHey, if we have a military coup in the U.S., whom do you want to send to the soccer stadium?
April 9th, 2006 at 3:49 pmNobody I know or fly with wants a police state. Although its scary how far down that path we are going. I am an American citizen first. Not a military officer first. Hopefully the next administration will respect the military and not treat it as an endless body pool for personal use.
Comment by Will — April 9, 2006 @ 3:33 pm
I just hope we can get to the ‘Next Administration’. Bush has a long time left to make an even bigger mess of things. And considering his previous behavior, it’s a pretty strong sign that what’s ahead won’t be any better.
I used to date a Navy pilot who knew all sorts of classified military informationf that he could never tell me. So, based on knowing that, if you’re saying that it’s scary how far down the road we’ve gone toward a Police State, I’m a little concerned about the stuff you have knowledge of that we do not. And about how much worse this whole nightmare is than we realize.
Well glad to know that there’s still some sanity left somewhere in government. Even if you’re not running the show now – some day you will be.
Thanks for answering my question. Some of us were discussing the issue earlier and I just thought I’d ask. Be safe please :)
April 9th, 2006 at 3:50 pmeven more frightening is the prospect of another “pearl harbor”, or better yet, another 911. OMG – will it be the west coast this time? Will it be a nuke? I swear, look up false flag terrorism – this government is BEST at it. And these psychopaths will NOT just step aside quietly.
My fantasy for the day: OUR MILITARY REVOLTS!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:50 pmComment by unbelievable — April 9, 2006 @ 3:50 pm
No problem!! My comment on police state is simply based on the patriot act etc. I dont like that law as a citizen at all. I see too much of my freedoms in jepordy in the name of security. I could care less what happens to me if im driving my car or flying on an airliner. Take common sense measures and keep living. This culture of fear that has been foisted on us is ridiculous. JUST LIVE!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 3:54 pm“(These religious crazies) do not want humanity to move forwards with science into somekind of “star trek†future where all humans work together. They WANT to see the end of the world and they are sick of waiting…” (Gerald Gibson:
April 9th, 2006 at 3:57 pmYou started out excellently, Mr Gibson, but not so fast…
Whew!! Apparently you are talking about the Arabs, but for a moment I thought you were talking about the evangelical crazies led by the messianic GBW who thinks god has directed him to dispense with science (creationism), who thinks he can destroy the planet with environmental pollution (as long as oil reigns who the fuck cares about global warming, a few forests or wild life reserves?), and who himself was “sick and waiting” a few extra days for the U.N. Inspectors to do their work in Iraq (that’s because Atta and his cohorts had been paid to fly into the World Trade Center and folks, we have a timetable here )…We have become known as a rogue nation and have lost all the global respect and integrity we earned since our inception.
I’m sorry to disagree, but it sure sounds like it is GBW, not the Arabs, who wants to see the end of the world, because he is sure trying to make it so. Read the similarities with us and the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. From apathy, to religiosity, corruption, erosion of the middle class, bankruptcy…all in all there are about 210 reasons, and I would say we have a good 75% already.
#39 I agree. I cannot imagine the backlash from our friends, let alone the middle east. Also, as we are hearing all this, the Iranians are hearing it, as well. They aren’t going to sit peacefully by and wait for it to happen. Granted, ground forces are so stretched, it’s surprising they haven’t snapped. Plus, sending in ground troops, puts them at risk again, like Iraq, which would really stir up a hornet’s nest with the American people. Air strikes, can hit and run, with hopefully, little or no losses, and less flack from the American people. The numbers needed for a ground assault would need the draft, which currently, is a dirty word.
April 9th, 2006 at 3:57 pmAlso, will China and Russia just sit by and let us do it?
No problem!! My comment on police state is simply based on the patriot act etc. I dont like that law as a citizen at all.
Comment by Will — April 9, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
Yeah, me neither. Gives the Executive far more power than Jefferson, Franklin and Paine would be comfortable with. And for good reason. But Bush wants to be King of the World. And in the process is destroying a wonderful country.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:00 pmDoes this mean North Korea’s next?
April 9th, 2006 at 4:04 pmAlso, will China and Russia just sit by and let us do it?
Comment by Nancy L. — April 9, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
Actually, haven’t they been preparing for such an event? For being able to thwart a ‘rogue nation of unidentified origin’? If they were smart, they should be worried about Bush. They all should be.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:05 pmMake sure these wonderful responses get to representatives Monday AM as loud, strong and constant as we were on Dubai..we can do it.
I say “Beam the up Scottie” get this rapture done with…the world will be left a much more tolerant place.
Yup I do believe Bush has gone over the edge. It feels like it is us vs. them…
April 9th, 2006 at 4:05 pminstead of Americans working with our government to stay strong.
Leonard,
I wrote my elected neocons yesterday. I’m sure Monday morning, an assistant will take down my address and smail mail me another form letter from my Congressman (the Senators just ignore me). :)
April 9th, 2006 at 4:07 pmGerald, regarding your earlier post:
The most recent creation of the Israeli State was preluded by emigrations of jews in the early 1900’s. They faced Arab resistance to buying property, and even resistance by British colonial authorities. They resorted to terrorist-type tactics back then. So, in a sense, they did ‘earn’ their country.
And, in a different sense, their country was purchased by the 5 million or so jews killed by the Nazis in WWII. Prior to the Allied powers carving up the middle east after WWII and the end of the Ottoman empire, there were no national borders in the conventional sense of the term.
Back to the thread:
You don’t just nuke the military targets, you nuke the planet. Remember, radiation from Chernobyl traveled around the globe. Even radiation from the depleted uranium shells we used In Iraq is being detected in Europe.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:10 pmSomehow, we need to get our representatives’(senators) attention. Letters don’t seem to do it, emails don’t seem to do it. Maybe massive call-ins to tie up congressional switchboards, overwhelm the phone lines with outraged, angry voters? Part of it, is due to the media. Even if you have an event to bring light to a situation, the main stream media ignores you, so the rest of the country doesn’t know they have like-thinking individuals across the country. “United we stand, divided we fall”., and they don’t want us standing.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:15 pmCorporate media – weapon of mass DISTRACTION!
April 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pmSounds like a good plan. Iran then North Korea then Syria then Lebanon for good measure then Palestine then Canada (they’re too nice) then Texas for a self destruct I told you so to leave me alone…
April 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pm#54: Remember, radiation from Chernobyl traveled around the globe. – - BushCo has that covered too. They’re going to go ahead with building the wall to keep out illegal immigrants and the DHS has assured the administration that the wall will also filter out unwanted carcinogens, radiation and allergens.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:20 pmSpeaking of Dr. Strangelove :)…
here’s my take on Sy Hersh’s blockbuster and Bush’s messianic zeal.
And this is one I wrote yesterday about the madness of the Unitary Executive before the latest Iran story broke.
…and let them go after Shy Hersh, he’s earned more credibility than the entire Administration combined.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:22 pmLet me get this straight, supermushroom (and it would be nice if *you* would).
You claim that “only Christians understand peace” even as you advocate the most violent, inhumane action possible against others who you would know, if you were capable of understanding even the basic tenets of Christianity, are God’s creation.
The best thing you could possibly do for the world would be to commit yourself. Reread what you wrote. See the problem? Please, please, see the problem.
God save us from false Christians–and violence-loving, hate-filled racists–like you. It’s a wonder you haven’t been smited yet.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:26 pmIt’s too bad that those officers who are so fed up can’t see another solotion besides resigning. A military coup might be the most democratic thing that can do right now.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:29 pmI wonder if this is a ploy to get Iran to follow the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war. Provoke them (Iran) into doing something foolish so that we have a legitimate reason to retaliate. Or just make it look like Iran did it – either way would probably work for the current administration. Maybe they are going to paint a nuke with the UN colors and fly it over Iran!
April 9th, 2006 at 4:34 pmThis is a perfect scenario for the neocons. They bomb (or nuke) Iran, the Iranians then relaliate by slaughtering the US soldiers in Iraq and start disrupting the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz. With the deaths of tens of thousands of troops and $10/gallon of gas, the sheeple will go along with any plan that: 1) Pays the Iranians back for defending themselves and 2) gets the price of gas back down. Busco’s plan won’t accomplish the latter, but that’s what they’ll promise. The MSM will beat the drums for a draft and more atttacks on Iran ceaselessly, and the typical moron-American will go for it.
The real wild card in all of this is how Russia and China react. If they decide that enough is enough with the US bullying the entire world, then “Hello to WWIII” – a nice little nuclear soiree coming to a neighborhood near you.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:34 pmFed Up Vet, I also though a possible military coup, but then after thinking further, it can be done without an actual coup. The military swears loyalty to uphold the Constitution, right? Not the president. The military should institute “work to rule”. They should just say NO! to unconstitutional actions and invoke their duty to uphold the constitution.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI am wondering today if there is any one group, organization or force able to stop the lunacy of the few stupid angry white men with their fingers poised over the buttons.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:39 pm……….Go see the movie V for Vendetta…………………..
(PS) I am male, white, and angry……………………
QUOTE: “It is time for senior military leaders to discard caution in expressing their views and ensure that the President hears them clearly.â€
Yes. Like, “if you don’t screw your head back on straight we will instigate a coup d’etat and take over this godamned administration by force in order to set it on the right track. Get it?”
Let’s hope THAT’s what some of the guys in the Pentagon are thinking.
April 9th, 2006 at 4:40 pmExcellent posts all. I notice for the most part there is very little dissent
April 9th, 2006 at 4:51 pmHoly smolly, no wonder President Bush did not deny he believed in Armageddon. Bush isn’t the only one that might take a pre-emptive strike (God was that stupid or what).
No one should ever use nuclear weapons, and those that do, should be condemned by the world. Once was enough, now lets puts the dangerous toys away.
Is Cheney hiding out in his bunker shadow government again? I don’t want good people to resign over this, I want them to stay and keep some semblance of sanity in this administration, in our government. If good people leave, Bush replaces them with incompetents or nutty people.
Can our country, can the world, really stand another 3 years of this administration?
April 9th, 2006 at 4:54 pmAs long as Dick Cheney…er GWBush remains the President, there is no doubt that the U.S. will nuke Iran before November. The MSM is almost completely ignoring the run up to war with Iran that is literally identical to pre-Iraq. The MSM and the American public are very stupid in failing to see that Iraq is happening all over agin–except with far greater consequences this time.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
April 9th, 2006 at 4:54 pmSunday Talk Buzz: Cokie wants nukes!
Right Now on LCL
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April 9th, 2006 at 4:57 pmThey should have resigned a long time ago, before sending the young men and women into harms way, for fictious reasons. They are Christofascists, trying to have another “Crusade.”
April 9th, 2006 at 5:02 pmThey should have resigned a long time ago, before sending the young men and women into harms way, for fictious reasons. They are Christofascists, trying to have another “Crusade.”
April 9th, 2006 at 5:02 pm[...] have another source of information regarding the end of the world. Yep. dubya actually has the Nuclear Option on the Table for Iran. and our top Military leaders are threatening to resign if it remains. [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 5:12 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire
You seemed to have forgotten to mention the British partitioning and the forced removal of arabs from their homes and being marched to Jordon. You also seemed to have forgotten about the U.N. supporting an official partition except for the arabs. You also didnt mentin British outlawing the entry of european jewish immigrants into the arab lands because of the trouble it would cause in the already agitated populace that was fighting amongst themselves. After WWII most of the jewish population snuck into the area against British efforts.
That is quite a bit different from the people rising up against a king and winning their freedom.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:23 pmThere is another option, maybe. First, we had that “roadmap” which was designed as part of the strategy. And now we have Israel surrounded, by Hamas, Al Qaeda, Hizbullah, etc. And Israel has been told: hands off. Hands off. Suddenly they are allowed to make retaliatory strikes. Why now? With Iran they are now going the “diplomatic route”, however, they “aint SPPPPEAKING’!!!! This is the silent treatment. Next they may allow Israel some retaliatory strikes, nothing with nukes, though. Noooooo! Not part of the plan. Not at all. After those retaliatory strikes, coming upon a series of blusterspeak by Iran, and more of the same by the Bushclan, Bush will WARN ISRAEL, and tell Iran to give up that nuke-business, or else. And Iran will say, yeah, but if we do THAT, you just saw what Israel did to us, noooooo, we ain’t gonne do that. Then the U.S. says to Israel, give up all your nukes, and Iran, you do too. Iran says, Israel first. So, Israel goes first. And what have we got? Israel surrounded by Al Qaeda, Hizbollah, Hamas, Lebanon and Syria in cahoots against it, and IRAN, still with the nukes. Hahaaaaa, Armageddon scenario. Enemy from the North (Iran + Syria/Lebanon), and flanked on all sides by Al Qaeda. The world is coming together, and boom, pooof, paff, off go the Christians, on a great cloud of fire, towards Heaven. Well, let me stop right here.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:26 pmYvonne, have another brandy!
April 9th, 2006 at 5:35 pmGee a few war criminials might resign if asked to commit more crimes?
It’s obviously not a matter of principles since our uniformed thugs have shown that they have none it must be that even their disease ridden brains realize the world would become unsafe for them and thier half witted children.
Comment by Ken
The way the US military works is you NEVER refuse an order unless it violates the US Constitution or Human Rights. Now you can say Iraq violated human rights, but a military officer is not going to make the ultimate decision to disobey based on anything less than absolute black and white disdinction. And since a large part of the country did not make that disdinction you cannot be blaming the military themselves. Unlike the military rulers around Japans emporer during WWII Americas military is kept subserviant to civilian rulers…as well they should be… A military coup in America would be wrong WRONG!. It is the responsiblity of WE THE PEOPLE to take that step and it would be the obligation of the military to support us as long as it was an obvious uprising of most of the people… if it is only half of the people (think civil war) the military is going to side with the federal government and follow orders.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:40 pmRight now I think Iran knows that any outbreak of hostilities will be a major disadvantage to the United States. It may take millions of deaths and untold suffering to finally bring an end to the war criminal clique that has infected American politics for so long. Just look what it took to finally bring Hitler and Co. down- almost the complete destruction of Europe and many millions of deaths.
If and/or when the rest of the world finally decides it necessary to start attacking American people and infrastructure, Americans will finally get the chance to experience the type of victimization that their government has spread worldwide for many years. It is always the innocent civilian that suffers most in any war, while the real behind-the-scenes protagonists(like the present neo-con crowd) always escape the situation and set up another parasite war cell in another unsuspecting nation, ready to start the process all over again!
What this world needs is PEACE, not war. The people cry for peace, regardless of any “terrorist” event. If an American group sets off a bomb in some other nation and kills a thousand people, does this justify that nation attacking American cities and people who had nothing to do with the bombing. Of course not, but this is exactly what Bush and Co. are doing. In fact, our CIA, leaders and military HAVE been responsible for millions of deaths of innocent people around the world since WW2.
Iran reminds me of Harry Callahan(Clint Eastwood) in the movie “Dirty Harry”- “Go ahead, make my day!”
April 9th, 2006 at 5:46 pmIs it just me, or does the insanity of this administration grow daily and at an exponential rate?
Let’s recap, here. It’s worth noting that we now know that the Bush administration had its heart set on an invasion of Iraq from day-one. I won’t speculate as to the significance of 9/11 in this matter – this isn’t a conspiracy theory, this is an analysis. They wanted to invade Iraq from the start, and with or without 9/11 they would’ve played the WMD card in order to convince the American people – our proud, ignorant countrymen – that it was necessary. Iraq has now been demolished, and is by all accounts teetering on the brink of an all-out civil war which we and the other coalition forces will not be able to contain.
The administration didn’t have a clue, it didn’t have a plan, and it didn’t have a care in the world. It went and invaded Iraq anyway, for whatever reasons they make have – take your pick – and now it’s mission accomplished. Now we know something else. They’ve been giving Iran eyes the entire time, and now they have the perfect excuse to invade. It’s already been implied if not stated outright that Bush plans for Iran – not Afghanistan, not Iraq, but Iran – to be his legacy. What a legacy it shall be.
Take heed, people. The war train is already rolling down the tracks at full speed, and it’s barrelling toward Iran without abandon. Our voices will not be heard, as they are not listened to and are consistently overwhelmed by the voices of the ignorant, and reason lay dead next to disco and chivalry in the graveyard of trends gone past. We will be decieved time and again, and we will be oppressed; the truth will be hidden away, vaulted and shielded from prying eyes and minds hungry for truth and justice. The next phase in this neverending war for the Middle East – the Iran conflict – will begin, and it’s not a matter of ‘if’ but ‘when’.
By the end of next year, Iran will also lay in ruin alongside Iraq and Afghanistan. Irradiated ruins and smouldering wells of molten glass will dot the countryside. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people will die, if not immediately then amid the aftermath of our combined nuclear-air assault. We will be hated, all of us, for the crimes of our beloved leaders. To the ignorant, this will be America’s greatest triumph. How will you choose to see it?
Sadly, for us peons, with our tiny wallets and large brains, there is very little we can do when our entire country and all three branches of its government has been dominated by maniacs that endorse the notion of a unitary executive – a dictator, in layman’s terms. Perhaps a campaign to evacuate Iran would be more fruitful than attempting a regime change here at home.
April 9th, 2006 at 5:48 pmThink about what would happen if Bush used these “tiny” nuclear weapons against Iraq. (1) The U.S. will have perpetrated a sneak attack on a country that didn’t attack us. (2) More countries in the Middle East and elsewhere will want nuclear weapons, knowing that if they don’t have them they are subject to a sneak attack fronm the U.S. (3) It will further destabilize the Middle East, and threaten to bring down the governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, which would mean the Islamic radicals could take over both of those countries. (4) In order to prevent an Islamic radical takeover, Saudi Arabia would denominate all oil sales in euros, from dollars now. This would be a big blow to the U.S. economy, and would cause Bush present $552 billion annual deficit to explode, to possibly $800 billion or more, because interest rates would go up. The dollar would no longer be the premier currency on Earth. (5) The Iranians would be legally and morally justified in retaliating against the United States. According to international law, they would have that right. You wanna bet they would not exercise it?
April 9th, 2006 at 6:14 pmFinally, (6) it would nOT stop Iran from possessing nukes. It would merely delay it. So this Bush attack, like the Bush attack on Iran, would ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.
“..The way the US military works is you NEVER refuse an order ..”
that was true with the SS as well not to mention the Indonesian troops in Iryan Jara, the Chinese in Tinianmen square etc.
When we signed the UN charter after WW II it was required that part of the UCMJ was altered so that individual’s with in the military became responsible for crimes committed while obeying illegal orders.
Under those same rules “preventive” wars are illegal. Under certian narrowly defined circumstances “preemptive” wars are allowed.
Preemptive being if an enemy country is massing troops on the border with a immenent intent to attack one can preemptively attack as a matter of self defense.
Preventive wars being attacking a country because someday at some time some country MIGHT attack is illegal.
Starting a war in the name of “regime” change because you don’t like somebody else’s government is criminial. That was Hitlers excuse in attacking Poland in Sept 39.
Superior officers are to be held to these standards. The administration has admitted that the war was started to effect “regime” change, most recently by Condi Rice in Britian.
The point of these rules was to prevent Rogue and criminial elements that may have seized control of a government from issueing “legal” orders to start an illegal war.
By supporting and engaging in the Iraq debacle the military has violated their oaths, besmirched the honor of our country and shown their ethical cowardice to become war criminials.
If there is any justice in the universe the dead ones are next to their philospical brothers from the SS frying and the live ones will be in a war criminial docks.
The Nuremberg defense of “Just obeying orders” is unacceptable and discredited. If you wish to resurrect it first go back and apoligize to Tojo and Eichmann since we tried them for crimes they committed while “just obeying orders”
April 9th, 2006 at 6:22 pm#74, I didn’t forget, I just gave the barest of sketches. Of course, the dispute over Israel dates back a few thousand years. I just mentioned a few highlights from about 1920 to date. The carving up of the middle east post WWII is way too much to discuss fully here. But thank you for your comments, it does add to a fuller picture.
A bigger question might be: How much longer is China, Russia and the European Union going to tolerate the United States before THEY decide to initiate a preemptive strike to remove a leader who has massive stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, orders the torture, even to the death, of captured prisoners, holds foreign nationals indefinately without a trial, invades a sovereign nation, and threatens to use nuclear weapons?
cue: “Jeopardy Theme Song”
April 9th, 2006 at 6:28 pmAny soldier who vows loyalty to any president, instead of the constituion and the American people is misguided to say the least.
April 9th, 2006 at 6:32 pm[...] The plans were brought to light by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh in this extraordinary just-published New Yorker article (and this morning on CNN). I highly recommend reading the full article, in which he details the alarming behind-the-scenes push within the U.S. administration to destroy Iran’s nuclear program, with the ultimate goal of regime change. Hersh states in the article that  [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 6:37 pmIran has conventional forces of over 500M, a least 700 short and medium range missles, a Russian trained fighter force of about 200 tactical fighters, three submarines outfitted with the most advanced torpedoes in the world and large stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons– not to mention a populace that is strongly nationalist. Add to that mix Iranians lliving in NE Iraq, , a massive pro Iranian insurgent force in Iraq which has us stalemated, and a terror network we haven’t been able to crack after thrity years of trying– one which wil readily merge with Al-Queda if Iran is attacked.
Consider also that Iran has lots of support from East European Muslims as well as support from Russia and just signed a multi billion dollar oil deal with China who will NOT stand by if its oil resources are threatened. And then there’s our very shaky economic situation with regard to China and several OPEC nations– all they have to is threaten to move to petro euros and we shake.
Bush really wants to take this enemy on? He will be starting WW III. And Israel will be fried along with Iran.
But what does he care– he and the Bush Crime Syndicate can wait for Jesus to return in their bunkers while the American middle-class spirals into an economic maelstrom. It’s amazing how much protection oil, drug and arms money can buy.
…”How do you like your blue-eyed boy, Mr. Death?”
April 9th, 2006 at 6:44 pmNow we have a lunatic Baby Caligula who is threatening to use nuclear weapons for the first time since Nagasaki. Not only that, he is threatening to use atomic weapons on a country which has not attacked or even threatened to attack the United States or its allies. This kind of insanity has got to end and it’s got to end soon or it ain’t gonna be Apocolypse…later.
April 9th, 2006 at 6:47 pmwho the hell is seymor hersch and why in gods name should i listen to him. he’s just as kooky as pat buchanan or bill cristol
April 9th, 2006 at 6:56 pmHow is it that government sanctioned killers can plan and plot the wholesale destruction of unknown men, women, children with the destroying of their cities and poisoning their earth forever, receive a paycheck of my tax dollars, while I could have my name listed for observation by these same psychopaths for wearing a T-shirt printed with: “Make Peace…Not War”?
The wrong people have the keys to our jails!
Stefan
April 9th, 2006 at 7:12 pm#85 iran is funding the radicals in iraq because they know it took the USA 100 hours the first time and 2 weeks the second time to wipe out the conventional forces. iran and iraq fought to a standstill for 10 years. iran knows in a outright fight it will be over real soon. terrorist roadside bombings are the only way to fight our troops. you give iran too much credit. this is why iran is stepping up their nuke program.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:20 pm#87
April 9th, 2006 at 7:21 pmYou exhibit how little you know.
#78 you almost sound like you hope those things happen to us
April 9th, 2006 at 7:22 pmI WAS PONDERING WHAT TO DO TO GET THESE FREAKS OUT OF THERE. It is obvious that, even if the Democrats regain the House this November, as seems likely, they are too gutless to impeach Bush and Cheney, and too afraid of offending the very people who detest all Democrats and would never vote against a Republican anyway. Plus the Democrats won’t get the Senate back, and all Republicans would vote party-line for Bush in an impeachment trial anyway. You need 67 of 100 senators to expel Bush, and that woudl not happen.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:23 pmSo how to derail the Bush gang’s mad agenda?
I thought the 25th Amendment might be the solution. That would allow several Cabinet members to temporarily depose Bush due to mental incapacity to carry out the duties of his office. There is no doubt that the mental incapacity is there. We have 5 years of proof, starting with Bush in the Sarasota classroom on September 11 refusing to work after our towers in Manhattan were attacked.
An obvious problem is that this would make Cheney acting president. He is the Madman behind the Madman now, so this wouldn’t really change anything. And the 25th Amendment has no provision for removing the Acting President Cheney.
Then I looked up the 25th Amendment. Written in 1965, when another useless Texan was in the Oval Office, the amendment turns out to be absolutely useless. THE VICE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE MAJORITY OF THE “MAIN” CABINET MEMBERS THAT BUSH IS MENTALLY DISABLED! Cheney would never admit that.
So the lunatics are in charge of the asylum for another 33 months, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
The dominant paradigm is being subverted.
a ‘context shift’
read the words of a Lubbock, Texas ‘Republican.’
You take an oath to uphold the US Constitution, not the nitwit preznit.
April 9th, 2006 at 7:24 pm#90 well explain his credintials to me. just because he agrees with my side what makes him the poster boy. he sounds just as loony as the rights “experts”
April 9th, 2006 at 7:28 pmASHTON… SYDNEY HERSCH is the New Yorker writer and author who exposed the
April 9th, 2006 at 7:39 pmabhu ghraib prison scandal. he is respected among the military ranks and i’m sure has been listening to them alot!
[...] According to Seymour Hersh, members is the Joint Chiefs are about to resign because the White House wants to keep the option of using nulclear bunker-busters to take out Iran’s underground nuclear weapons facilities. HERSH: When the JCS, the Joint Chiefs and the planners then wanted to walk back that option [to use nuclear weapons], what happened is about three or four weeks ago, the White House — people in the White House, in the Oval Office, the Vice President’s office — said “No, let’s keep it in the plan. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.†They refuse to take it out. What I’m writing here is that if this isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. Again, let me make the point, you’re giving a range of options early in the planning, to be sure of getting rid of it, you give that option. … [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 8:00 pmBecause the President has lost his credibility with the American people due to Iraq, I doubt very much that he can initiate action against Iran without certain things happening first. In my opinion, the situation would go something like this:
A) An American provocation in the Persian Gulf or inside Iran (remember Tonkin?) followed by a CONVENTIONAL weapons strike on Iran’s uranium processing facilities.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:08 pmB) Iran responds by creating havoc throughout the Middle East (Straight of Hormus, Iraq, Hezbollah, etc).
C) The use of tactical nuclear weapons by the US depends on how effective the Iranians are in their retaliation.
D) All Hell Breaks Loose!
The US military should not be put in a position where they believe they are obligated to make a political gesture. We citizens have an obligation to instruct the political process through our United States Congress. The US Congress has appropriations authority and can flip the switch on a moments notice–if we so instruct.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:08 pmMilitary officers tried a coup against Adolf Hitler in Germany, so it is not farfetched that some of our officers might try the same thing?! The Congress by not impeaching Bush are leading this nation to turmoil > protests that could turn into riots, labor strikes, or even military coup!
April 9th, 2006 at 8:14 pmOnce an option is put on the table there will need to be plans to logistically support it. Once all support is in place the urge to actualy use it becomes overbearing and it will be used whether justified or not. The USA will not allow itself to become the first strike victim.This will happen once the invasion begins and then there will be no turning back. The muslim world will band together and the USA will be in a 100 year war of constant attack from many different areas. There will be no boundries. The western empire ( USA) will be destroyed as a nation.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:16 pmSorry to get off topic, but this was just worth sharing (’cause I think it explains why 37% of the country still supports Bush):
Bill Nye, the harmless children’s edu-tainer known as “The Science Guy,” managed to offend a select group of idiot adults in Waco when he suggested that the moon does not emit light.
As even most elementary-school graduates know, the moon reflects the light of the sun but produces no light of its own.
But don’t tell that to the good people of Waco, who were “visibly angered by what some perceived as irreverence,” according to the Waco Tribune.
Nye was in town to participate in McLennan Community College’s Distinguished Lecture Series. He gave two lectures on such unfunny and adult topics as global warming, Mars exploration, and energy consumption.
But nothing got people as riled as when he brought up Genesis 1:16, which reads: “God made two great lights — the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.”
The lesser light, he pointed out, is not a light at all, but only a reflector.
At this point, several people in the audience stormed out in fury. One woman yelled “We believe in God!” and left with three children, thus assuring that people across America would read about the incident and conclude that Waco is as nutty as they’d always suspected.
http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/04/battling_the_je.php
April 9th, 2006 at 8:22 pm[...] Watch Video [...]
April 9th, 2006 at 8:25 pmMass resignations will just result in “yes” men being promoted into thier places. Anyone ready for an American military coup?
April 9th, 2006 at 8:26 pmAs for being on topic,
From Buzzflash: The White House believes “a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government.  Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, “The most worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision.â€
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact
The Bush Administration, while publicly advocating diplomacy in order to stop Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon, has increased clandestine activities inside Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air attack. Current and former American military and intelligence officials said that Air Force planning groups are drawing up lists of targets, and teams of American combat troops have been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect targeting data and to establish contact with anti-government ethnic-minority groups. The officials say that President Bush is determined to deny the Iranian regime the opportunity to begin a pilot program, planned for this spring, to enrich uranium.
American and European intelligence agencies, and the International Atomic Energy Agency (I.A.E.A.), agree that Iran is intent on developing the capability to produce nuclear weapons. But there are widely differing estimates of how long that will take, and whether diplomacy, sanctions, or military action is the best way to prevent it. Iran insists that its research is for peaceful use only, in keeping with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and that it will not be delayed or deterred.
There is a growing conviction among members of the United States military, and in the international community, that President Bush’s ultimate goal in the nuclear confrontation with Iran is regime change. Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has challenged the reality of the Holocaust and said that Israel must be “wiped off the map.†Bush and others in the White House view him as a potential Adolf Hitler, a former senior intelligence official said. “That’s the name they’re using. They say, ‘Will Iran get a strategic weapon and threaten another world war?’ â€
A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was “absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb†if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,†and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.â€
April 9th, 2006 at 8:30 pmloyalty to Adolf Hitler too.
last words
flip flop, it never stops.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:56 pmGet rid of Bush. Pick a Democrat. But pick a good one. Please STOP KERRY. Pick another Democrat.
Saw Kerry on Meet the Press today. The man will never get over his flip-flopping stigma. He deserves it.
Kerry spoke out of both sides of his mouth on whether there should be a timetable for withdrawal for Iraq. In his Presidential campaign he said we should not leave until we are successful. Now he says we should pull out if Iraq doesn’t shape up right away. Fine, but his explanation for his change of heart was totally incomprehensible. He wouldn’t admit there was any inconsistency.
The man can’t control himself. He also can never stop talking and trying to steal the spotlight. He is haughty. He uses haughty language. He is not that smart. His report cards in college were on par with Bush and in his campaign against Bush except for the first debate he drew even or lost to Bush. His positions are basically incomprehensible and he communicates poorly. Let’s pray he’s marginalized.
April 9th, 2006 at 8:57 pm” He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,†and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.†”
Saving Iran by poisoning the countryside for millennia? By contaminating the groundwater forever (for all intents and purposes)? By hosing neighboring countries with radioactive particles and wafting them into the atmosphere if the nukes break the surface?
Courage has nothing to do with it, although Bush is so mortally stupid he may only see it in those terms. He has NO RIGHT to use nuclear weapons unless the USA’s existence is in peril. Doesn’t he have any fucking idea what’s involved with nukes? Half-lives, contamination, Three Mile island, Chernobyl, etc.??
Probably not, since that involves “reading” about “history” and “science” and “biology,” which are all communist left-wing egghead theories anyway (hey, gravity is just a theory). If he really thinks he has the right to use nuclear weapons electively, and does so, then his life wouldn’t be worth a nickel.
I would support a military coup if they decided the only way to stop him was by extraordinary means. Anyone that insane must be imprisoned.
I can’t believe this is even being discussed at this level of seriousness. I CAN’T FUCKING BELIEVE IT!!!
April 9th, 2006 at 9:01 pmThey left the k out of Waco er… Wacko, home of David Koresh, and Baylor University, a boobtist university.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:08 pmTheres a saying, “wouldn’t piss on him if he was burning”, which i think accurately describes how >90% of the rest of the world now feels about the good ol USA. Which is not good news for a nation running low on oil, gas, water, land, fish, money, allies, and credibility.
Sure its the creeps at the top who have done most of the damage, via decades of genocidal foriegn policy and institutionalised greed and corruption, but hey, you let them do it, you bought their schlock and still follow their orders, so you and your kids too will all get bit parts in ‘Murica’s Great Leap Backwards, which i imagine the rest of the world will show only polite interest in. Have a nice Collapse.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:08 pmPost 106 > Sen. John Kerry has the number one top rating in the Senate of supporting Israel, so he does whatever Israel wants, which is why he cannot advocate the removal of our troops from Iraq, and why he will back Bush on attacking Iran! He will complain if Bush nukes Iran, but at the same time he will do nothing to stop it either! Also since Kerry is a Skull and Bones member, like Bush, he basically belives in the same globalist puke! Another Senator who does whatever Israel wants is Hillary Clinton, so do not expect her to prevent an attack on Iran, or to complain if Bush uses nukes > she will be silent! Sen. Lieberman and Sen. Biden will also back Bush on attacking Iran because they are both certified idiots! Sen. Feinstein, since she is Jewish, will also back war on Iran and several other Democrat Senators as well! All but a few of the Republican Senators and GOP Reps will back Bush on nuking Iran too!
The American citizenry are being betrayed by the Congress, so global WWIII is soon!
April 9th, 2006 at 9:26 pmThere will come a day when every country in the civilized world decides that they have had enough of the United States government, and when that day finally come you can bet your ass that there will be plenty of nations in their “Calition of the Willing”. Can you say China,Latin America, Middle East, Russia, and European Union versus the United States? George W. Bush has screwed us all for decades to come.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:27 pmNuclear bunker busters are a horrible idea. Nuclear warheads have thus far been detonated above ground or so deeply below ground as to contain the entire blast. A bunker buster would induce unprecedented fallout. Unprecedented. Hiroshima and Nagasaki’s death tolls would pale in comparison. It would truly constitute an act of genocide. Conventional strikes are adequate, although even these are quite arguably ill advised.
As an aside, were Hitler alive today, he’d most likely liken his adversaries to Hitler.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:29 pmIn Addition To Hersh’s Article, READ THIS
An online excerpt from an article by Philip Giraldi, in the American Conservative. It indicates that:
April 9th, 2006 at 9:37 pm(1) the U.S. Strategic Command (STRATCOM) has been asked to draw up concrete, short term contingency plans for an attack on Iran, to involve “a large-scale air assault employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons” and
(2) that Vice President Cheney’s office has specifically told the Pentagon that the military should be prepared for an attack on Iran in the immediate aftermath of “another 9-11.” That’s “not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States,” notes Geraldi.
Can it get madder than this? The neocons’ plans for a total reorganization of the “Greater Middle East” have been plain for some time now. Many have been warning against the prospect of an expansion of the Iraq War into Syria and Iran. You’d think that reality would smack these guys in the face and they’d call off anything so stupid. But they apparently think that by using conventional and nuclear weapons (first time any nation will do that since Nagasaki); by employing the Mujahadeen Khalq; by activating agents in place to organize demonstrations (as the CIA did so successfully in Iraq in 1953); by attacking from Azerbaijan they can actually pull this off. Do they even realize that southern Iraq and Iran constitute the heartland of historical Shiism, and that an attack on Iran will negate any goodwill among Shiites U.S. forces have acquired in Iraq?
Maybe, here and there within the military itself, the madmen meet with quiet resistance. “Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning,” writes Giraldi, “are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack” That’s encouraging, surely. Good that senior Air Force officers should be appalled at their orders. Surely they must ask questions, such as:
What do they mean by “another 9-11″? Could any, even small-time terrorist act in the U.S. (say, killing 52 in the Boston subway) be the signal for us to start bombing Iran?
Does the Vice President’s office anticipate this second 9-11 sometime soon?
Would it be moral to attack Iran in the aftermath of a terrorist attack if Iran had nothing to do with it?
Actually, why would Iran ever give the U.S. pretext for an attack?
Am I going to be complicit in war crimes if I’m involved in this planned attack? What will this do for my long-term reputation?
Will our troops in Iraq suffer as a result of the hatred for the U.S. another unprovoked attack is likely to generate?
Am I going to be a part of a military project which will have no support anywhere in the world, except maybe in Israel?
But the sentence finishes “—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections.”
That could change quickly, of course, if the Bush administration starts to sink under the weight of accumulating scandals. But the plan for the Iran attack is for it to come quickly, while the nation is in a state of shock—apparently in some near-future scenario—so that all those brewing scandals get placed on the back burners. The propaganda set-up’s already been performed as well as possible. There’s a list of charges against Iran, just like there was against Iraq. If they happen, President Bush will explain the Iran attacks as strikes reluctantly undertaken, as a last resort, to protect Americans from terrorist threats emanating out of Iran. The STRATCOM guys will know that’s not true, and have to live with the knowledge.
Dr Strangelove!
April 9th, 2006 at 9:41 pmThe Islamic World must finally wake up, get over its problems, and unite. This is an obvious move by the zionists and their minions to exercise hegemony over the Muslim world. Our enemies are clear: the are the zionists themselves, as well as the christian zionists we have in the US, who are infatuated with the idea of the so-called “rapture” and who have overwhelmingly no knowledge of classical Hebrew to read the original text from which their botched and mistranslated English scriptures have been digested by the intestines of history and finally delivere dinto their churches today, like the soggy turd that they amount to, at best.
What the Muslim world must do, as I said, is unite fully. Then we must wipe out te zionist entity from the map, and clean house at home, all across from Ad-Dar Al-Baydha’ to Jakarta and beyond. The zionists and those christian ass-lickers who aid them must be exterminated, pure and simple. Add to them the Baathists and all the America-backed dictatorial regimes in the Middle East. Like Hitler tried, but much more efficient, and on a much greater scale. No torture, no labor camps, just massive banks of ovens in an archipelago of extermnation facilities running 24/7 until the last one of those vermin is incinerated. A few of these camps might usefully be set up in the American south, where there is a particularly “red” christian zionist infection. They must be exterminated as well. Perhaps their bodies could be used to fire power plants for a time being.
April 9th, 2006 at 9:57 pmSYDNEY HERSCH is the New Yorker writer and author… – - Any relation to Seymour Hersh?
April 9th, 2006 at 10:01 pmYou would think by all this posturing by Bush and his right-wing cohorts, that you guys have an election coming up in November.
April 9th, 2006 at 10:05 pmI see post 115 is trying to stir up anti-Muslim hatred in America, by claiming that Muslims should kill all Zionists and Christians > ignore what he said, because he probably is really a Bush agent who wants to incite justification for blowing Iran to smithereens?!
April 9th, 2006 at 10:19 pmSeymour Hersh has been a journalist for 40 years. He exposed the My Lai incident in Viet Nam. He has earned his credentials.
Journalist, born in Chicago, Illinois, USA. He studied at the University of Chicago and is recognized as an aggressive, highly successful investigative reporter. He worked variously for United Press International, the Associated Press, the New York Times, the Atlantic Monthly, and The New Yorker, and played key roles in exposing evidence of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, domestic spying by the Central Intelligence Agency, and other stories, winning a 1970 Pulitzer Prize and many other major awards. His books include The Price of Power (1983), a scathing portrait of Henry Kissinger. RELATED WORKS
April 9th, 2006 at 10:40 pmBooks
1983 The Price of Power
1983 The Target is Destroyed
The Samson Option
1997 The Dark Side of Camelot
#119 is directed to #94
April 9th, 2006 at 10:41 pmDO YOU PEOPLE THINK ANYTHING IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR? COMMUNISM DIED MARXISM IS A JOKE STOP YOUR BITCHIN BUSH IS THERE FOR 3 1/2 MORE YEARS. GET OVER IT. NO IMPEACHMENT NO JAIL AND AFTER NOV. WHEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE REMAIN IN THE SAME HANDS AS TODAY. YOU ALL GET TO BITCH FOR 2 MORE YEARS. 2008 SOME OTHER CONSERITVE WILL TAKE OVER AND WAWAWAWAWA. GET A JOB AND SHUT UP
April 9th, 2006 at 10:54 pmBush: messianic or just a mess?
April 9th, 2006 at 11:07 pm#123 ISNT THAT CENSORSHIP WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHTS NOT VERY INCLUSIVE OF YOU I GUESS PROGRESSIVE MEANS ONLY IF I THINK LIKE YOU……..OK LET ME TRY…….USA BAD USA BAD NOPE NOT WORKING IF WERE SO BAD 11 MILLION MEXICANS WOULDNT WANT TO BE HERE IF WERE SO BAD HOW DOES EVERYONE GET TO HAVE A COMPUTER FOR POSTING IF WERE SO BAD WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE WHEN I WAS A KID THERE WAS A BUMPER STICKER “AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT” SO GET OUT AND MAKE ROOM FOR A IMMIGRANT WHO WANTS TO LIVE HERE AND BE DAMN HAPPY ABOUT IT.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:08 pmTHE TRUTH HURTS. 11000000 UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS CANT BE WRONG. THIS IS ONE GREAT PLACE TO LIVE. HEY AND THE MUST LIKE BUSH THEY HAD A CHOICE AND THEY CAME EVEN THOUGH HE’S THE PRESIDENT. GET OUT SO THEY CAN LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE. BE THEY’ED BE ABLE TO POST W/O USING PROFANITY. WHEN YOU START CURSING YOU’VE ALREADY LOST THE FIGHT.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:23 pm#128 YELLING I’M NOT YELLING I’M TYPING. DO YOU YELL AT YOUR COMPUTER? DOESNT GET OFFENDED WHEN YOU YELL AT IT? MY COMPUTER JUST SITS THERE AND MAKES ME TYPE. I GOTTA UPGRADE.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:28 pmThe fundamental problem with the U.S. launching a preemptive air strike against Iran is that China and Russia, which are both nuclear nations, would view this as an act of war against them. They have oil deals with Iran.
What would transpire if we were to bomb Iran? The most likely scenario is that China and Russia would start fueling their ICBMs. In response, the U.S. would then go into a state of nuclear readiness. In other words, the world would be on the brink of nuclear war. In that scenario, everybody loses.
I would certainly hope that if ordered to bomb Iran, U.S. military commanders would refuse. There are, in fact, provisions in the U.S. Constitution for declaring the President and Vice President to be mentally unfit to hold office. Their authority could then be superseded by Congress.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:32 pmAs an active duty Marine with 22 years of military service, I can say that I am fed up with this administration’s abuse of the military. Even the VFW has been duped, hoodwinked, and bamboozled into believing that we have undertaken a worthy cause. See their resolution 440. All that was good about military service has been flushed down the toilet by the conduct of this current “war” based on lies and deceit, and the lining of pockets of numerous multi-national corporations and oil companies. Hopefully my grandchildren will find military service once again to be honorable. It’s pretty much all based on lies right now.
Please check out what this Marine has to say about war:
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Semper Fi,
Jeff
April 9th, 2006 at 11:50 pmThe Bush loving trolls who post on here that want to nuke Iran are low-lifes! Nobody who is sane would want to kill millions of people by dropping nukes on them, so those who desire nuclear war are certified insane! Those who think God will rapture them, after they advocated killing innocent men, women, and children, are in for a rude awakening > they will go straight to Hell and burn with Hitler! There is ZERO justification to bomb Iran into dust or glass!
April 9th, 2006 at 11:58 pmYELLING I’M NOT YELLING I’M TYPING.
Comment by TOMAS VERRA — April 9, 2006 @ 11:28 pm
For the newbies:
Re-read and edit your posting carefully before you post. Check the spelling, grammar, and capitalization. Typing in all capital letters usually denotes screaming or yelling.
Wikipedia: Netiquette
On topic:
Talk of the military being “on the edge” reminds me the poll showing that around 72% of the troops in Iraq are in favor of withdrawal within a year.
Will the commander-in-chief hear what his loyal troops have to say? (It is, of course, a rhetorical question)
April 9th, 2006 at 11:58 pm#136 pardon the caps lock.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:10 amHow long until We the People revolt to stop the Iran war?
April 10th, 2006 at 12:23 am#136 Gregor, i would think 100% of the troops would rather be home. but the majority believe in what they are doing in iraq.your not gonna see a military uprising. they beleive in duty and honor.thats why they volunteered. thats why 80%of troops in iraq re-up while in country.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:30 am[...] Bush wants war with Iran, and the current war plans include plans to use nuclear weapons on Iran as part of a pre-emptive military strike against them. Yes, you heard that right. We will nuke Iran if we have to. But according so Seymour Hersh, top men in the military are ready to resign if the nuclear plans are not removed from the US strategy against Iran. Think Progress has video of Hersh's discussion with Wolf Blitzer on this issue. What I’m writing here is that if this [plan to use nukes] isn’t removed — and I say this very seriously, I’ve been around this town for 40 years — some senior officers are prepared to resign. They’re that upset about the fact that this plan is kept in. … [O]ne thing about our military, they’re very loyal to the president, but they’re getting to the edge. They’re getting to the edge with not only Rumsfeld, but with Cheney and the President. [...]
April 10th, 2006 at 12:37 amSr. Verra may have a point.
“11million undocumented workers can’t be wrong.”
Meaning, of course, if you get enough people on one side of an argument, you are right by force of shear numbers. If you get enough people to believe in a bad idea, it suddenly becomes a good idea. WOW!
We can throw logic and morals out the door. All we have to do is get good poll numbers!
hmmmm gotta problem here….Bush’s poll numbers are hitting new lows. I wonder, does that mean the lower his poll numbers go, the more wrong he is?
April 10th, 2006 at 12:44 amWell well, So NOW is the time to start the “naggingly waking up” huh? lol!…No, I mean LMAO! This has to have been the worst movie script ever in the name of the American people. Come on dudes and dudettes! You can not seriously be coming in NOW and tell the rest of us in the world that you did not see THIS coming?
(sorry Carolita but I am pretty pissed of and thus I WILL give my self the liberty in using capital letters when ever I choose to do so…he he!)
Ok, We have gotten it quite straight enough I guess( punch intended Georgy boy) The peeps of the mightiest country in the world (read USA) was tricked into going to war against that bully that made the slightly bratty boys Dad look bad, so the slightly bratty boy gets the opportunity by those hotshot guys behind the scene to support his “Payback time” and they have the super genius of havoc called Rove that chumps “the biggest bluff out plan” and thus, Those huge ones behind the stage follows the plan and buy of the whole “Show-a-bang-bang-plan” called the electorate voting system of America..Am I right so far?
Well!? not entirely as it seems. cause see, the plan isn’t totally air tight, so they fill those holes by firmly forbidding any “paper ballot receipt†which means that anyone citizen have no way to “prove†exactly how he or she voted. (see: widespread voter disenfranchisement. or better yet, see: “Who is behind Die bold†Hey, while we are at it why not look at this one: New Florida Vote Scandal Feared
By Greg Palast
Wednesday 27 October 2004
A secret document obtained from inside Bush campaign headquarters in Florida suggests a plan – possibly in violation of US law – to disrupt voting in the state’s African-American voting districts, a BBC Newsnight investigation reveals.
Two e-mails, prepared for the executive director of the Bush campaign in Florida and the campaign’s national research director in Washington DC, contain a 15-page so-called “caging list”.
It lists 1,886 names and addresses of voters in predominantly black and traditionally Democrat areas of Jacksonville, Florida.
An elections supervisor in Tallahassee, when shown the list, told Newsnight: “The only possible reason why they would keep such a thing is to challenge voters on election day.”
Ion Sancho, a Democrat, noted that Florida law allows political party operatives inside polling stations to stop voters from obtaining a ballot)
Just go ahead, there are latterly tons of materials such as these out there. In the real world that is. And talking now about nukes and Bush and his pals in the same sentence is not such an “awe minding business” at all.
…..”to be continued”……
April 10th, 2006 at 2:18 amAMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.
Comment by supermushroom
I think supermushroom has been doing too many ’shrooms. Guy, lose the God stuff… how Christian of you by advocating the incineration of tens/hundreds of thousands of human beings. What is it with Americans, God and their never ending sense of dominion over the world.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:40 amI’ve never agreed with the tactic of resigning to oppose a bad idea. All it accomplishes is removing oneself from the only position one has to actually oppose the bad idea and allow the perp a traitors to accomplish their insanity. The military is loyal to Bush?! WTF they are supposed to be and have sworn an oath to be loyal to the constitution of the US not it’s leadership! Instead of resigning they should stage a coup and remove the lunatics from the whitehouse and call for new elections!
By the way, in order to stop electronic voting fraud simply vote all your candidates as write-ins whether or not the candidate is already on the ballot. Spread the word!
April 10th, 2006 at 2:42 amPeople like TOMAS VERRA and SUPERMUSHROOM provide wonderful entertainment for the progressive thinker, don’t they. These people confuse the term “conservative” and “conservatism” with “insane” and “delussional”. I have never met a true conservative I didn’t like. Thomas and ‘Shroom, your elevated, ignorant language only reaffirms why there are three political movements in the US of A. Conservative, Liberal and Delussional. I’d vote for a reasonalble C(c) or L(l), but never for anyone you’d support. The absoule arrogance of your words shames the rest of your countrymen. It embarasses them, it denies them the pride they are entitled to as proud citizens of a good nation.
Shame on you both.
PS: Mr. Verra, do you even know what Marxism is?
April 10th, 2006 at 2:52 amThis isn’t a bluff and we’re the ones who should be scared.
Bush/Rove/Cheney came in believing that wars are to Presidents what executions are to Governors. Executions have been very, very good to Governor Bush. So the worse things get, the better a nice easy war looks.
In all fairness, there are some similarities in the initial reaction to the war and public attitudes towards the death penalty:
* It makes a lot of the people you scared into voting for you feel a little better,
* It takes people a while to realize how much it really costs, and
* People don’t seem to care that you execute the wrong guy or invade the wrong country.
May I say once again, as a white male, it’s to to think about common sense limits on the rights of white men to vote. (It might just be as easy as scheduling elections during NASCAR events…)
April 10th, 2006 at 3:00 amOne do not have to wander about to far to stumble upon quite revealing and utterly shameful evidence such as that incident where one oleader of a Nations highest office, a man chosen by his own people to protect them, their ways of life and their God given right to privacy and security. That same man (read That clown you call President) who has the worst taste ever in calling the constitution of America, the constitution of YOUR OWN COUNTRY something less important then a mere “Gawd damn piece of paper”..?????!!! What the hell is THAT?
Now my question is simply, WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU ALL BACK THEN????
I used to be a proud American citizen. I went on a march with a few other men and women whom also had awaken by those awful words about our constitution, against THAT and other significantly horrific and “magnitudes of error or blunders” we marched. Most of us were vets but there where some others, young and with that fire of justice brightly flaming in their eyes. We got to the final turn and just stood there, dumb founded. And we asked our selves “Where the hell are all other of our brothsers and sisters?”
So until then I was, no! I used to be, One who Stood by my Nation through all weathers, might it have been storm of led, cold like F.U.B.A.R of hot like in hell, I would have been there. I have bled for it. As I said, I am a vet and I used to be damn proud of the duty that I had done. But no more, It tares my heart to see a fine vet brother like Old John McCain who now seem to have forgotten his fallen comrads and the legacy we fought for and they died for.
I have to say that I turned my back. I could no longer sit still and see what is becoming with all that I held dear. I followed my wife’s intuition and I have left for the land from which she once came from. And today I can say that I consider my self lucky. I have found a place where the people of the land still have the guts to not let them selves get over gunned. Where these natives of this fantastic land still hold high the virtue of standing up for what they call their legacy, their traditions and still be humble enough to embrace others. These my new brothers have no worries over a bit of fight, they stick together but are intellectual enough to not go for the weapon as a first. They believe as one should that it is when the brain stops functioning that one starts to throw them stones. It is in Europe that we now live for the sake of the intellectual sanity of our children and mine as well. I have not totally forsaken my American citizenship but it will probably not be during my life time that I can see my beloved birthplace again. It was all done out of a firm belief that to have stayed would have cost to much, as taken to much soul out of my children. I needed to know and now do for sure, that they are safe from a mass-propaganda of such intensity and violation of mind as exactly what the German nation did back in 33 and forward under one, just as cynical group of world changing admires as the one Neo-com group that today occupies the White House at Pensylvanian Avenue 1600. You might all be proud in calling him your leader just as I am utterly proud to say that he for sure is no leader of President of mine. I actually do not see him as a President at all. I do not think that bratts that cheat to get what they want are worthy of that office in the first place. What wouldn’t a huge mind and proud man such as the real President “Al Gore” not have done in that same seat? A thought worth thinking from time to time. Does America deserve him? hell yeah! Any nation would be proud over a man with such an intensity in what he belives in that he even tours the whole world endlessly and solo in his persiute for the “awakening” of us all on what really is happening to our world. Now picture Goergy boy doing the same…Hard to even imagnie him tucking him self in while waiting for a flight that has been late huh? lol! well, see people, THAT is the difference in a “MAN” and a “Want to be all that but simply and saddly just AIN’T”.
April 10th, 2006 at 3:26 amAs I have said, I am a proud father of two teenagers and as such one has to turn ones head around until one knows that one have found the right place to bring them up in, the right enviroment and everything else that they need to prepare them for life ahead. I now know that they will grow up in a society with a people that elects leaders that takes pride in sharing the truth of the world around them with their voters and the people that they have sworn to lead with dignity and trust. Here in Sweden the people are so much more intellectually fairminded. There is so much less racism, less drugs in them streets, less violence, lmuch better education and a far better sharing of prosperity. Better social network and health care for all for free until 18 yeras old. the same goes for the educational system. FREE OF CHARGE. got it? And we call America the best Nation in the world? we could have been all that. But we must face the tune. it is false and that is simply the case. We are not second, we are not third, America does torture other humanbeings, might they be evil, them demons thrown at us by the Devil him self, but it doesn’t add up giving away all what we fought for so hard, both within as well as towards outside sources. we searched the ballance of it for so long.
April 10th, 2006 at 3:49 amAnd now…he and his cabal is about to take us into an era where we will be claimed to have been starting the
April 10th, 2006 at 3:52 amTHIRD
April 10th, 2006 at 3:53 amWORLD
April 10th, 2006 at 3:53 amWAR!!!!!!
April 10th, 2006 at 3:54 amGerald
And you are forgetting that the very night the Brits left, the Arabs attacked and got their buts whupped. They kept on attacking, and getting their arses kicked basically throughout the existance of Israel, and it wasn’t the Americans who were doing the whupping, it was the Israelies.
They aren’t the best army in the world for nothing. They can kick ass like it is going out of style, but they currently want peace. They have been more the reasonable in what they have offered for peace, but no, they still get lambasted for even being there.
Israel can take care of itself, if it feels that strongly about Iran it can bomb Iran itself, but you Yanks seem to be out to take all the credit for the place’s existance, whether left or right. Fact is that America has a history of not being that good an ally to Israel (withholding information which it had agreed to share with them for example) and it was basically pressure from America which cost Israel the Gaza Strip, an area of land with a lot of tactical value.
The Israel-Palestine conflict is one where the defender is getting blamed for being entirely too successful, while the agressor is getting sympathy cards no matter what the agressor does. Killing Athletes? Fine. Killing school kids? Fine. Desecrating holy places? Fine. Frankly this is one issue where I agree with the right wing, while Israel isn’t saintly (nobody comes out of a war as a saint) a lot of the vitriol aimed at it is basically anti-semitism married to the old Jewish Conspiracy.
If America attacks Iran, it will be because America is attacking Iran, not because of Israel. Israel may agree with an attack on Iran, but that doesn’t make Israel the cause of an attack on Iran.
April 10th, 2006 at 4:10 ampeople like Tomas Verra are why the American empire will crash. No not collapse I said CRASH!!!!
This will happen when the first wave of thermonuclear wepons explode from the Golden Gate to Plymouth Rock. This is not a threat but a prophesy. One nuke exploded in Iran will start it.
This is an appeal to the last of the just in the USA to act now before this Cuban Missile crisis in reverse plays out to its final and terrible conclusion.
Tom Verra is a sideshow and a distraction. Be clearheaded and steadfast. Act now before the cancer of fascism in your government kills us all.
The Sentinel
April 10th, 2006 at 5:50 amAs another reader pointed out, it is likely that if a mass-resignation of senior military officials occurs, it would not be below our administration to forgo the formalities of rank-promotion and simply install a handful of ‘Yes-Men’ to help them carry out their plans. If anything, that’s precisely what the administration needs – a sharp decrease in internal resistance from the military.
Remember, this is not a matter of ‘if’, but ‘when’. Prepare yourselves, as when the bombs fall upon Iran, the world will turn on us. Iran won’t be the only nation burned in this coming conflict.
April 10th, 2006 at 7:52 amI can’t believe this is even being discussed at this level of seriousness. I CAN’T FUCKING BELIEVE IT!!!
Comment by ElectricBassPlayer — April 9, 2006 @ 9:01 pm
Me neither.
April 10th, 2006 at 8:00 amWe should learn this lesson:
France to scrap youth jobs law
PARIS, France (CNN) — The French government has scrapped a controversial youth job contract that brought weeks of protests and strikes in a move seen as a major blow to the country’s embattled Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin.
President Jacques Chirac announced the decision on Monday, capitulating to pressure from students and unions who rallied more than a million people onto the streets in nationwide demonstrations.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/04/10/france.labor.law/index.html
April 10th, 2006 at 8:05 amseems like hersh has become a bitch to the bush administration…someone keeps filling him full of the bs and he keeps buying it…
April 10th, 2006 at 8:27 am“AMERICA WILL BE MUCH SAFER ONCE THE ARABS ARE UNDER CHRISTIAN CONTROL. BECAUSE ONLY CHRISTIANS UNDERSTAND PEACE.”
Actually, this is a post by an administration official. AND, he can’t figure out how to turn his caps lock off.
April 10th, 2006 at 8:53 ampeople like Tomas Verra are why the American empire will crash. No not collapse I said CRASH!!!!
This will happen when the first wave of thermonuclear wepons explode from the Golden Gate to Plymouth Rock. This is not a threat but a prophesy. One nuke exploded in Iran will start it.
The Sentinel
Comment by The Sentinael
Nonsense. It’s a grand idea to nuke Iran. We should have done it under the Carter administration. I think it will send a message to the Islamists that when they threaten to build nukes and promise to use them to further their global jihad the USA is more than willing to kill 50 million of their people, take over the country and turn it into a theme park.
I think we’ve spent enough time and energy playing footsy with these barbarians. They haven’t done a thing to better themselves or mankind in the past 1000 years so what exactly are they good for? All they do is murder and take up valuable real estate. It’s high time we whack ‘em.
April 10th, 2006 at 9:14 am#160 – “Right between the I’s” wrote: “They haven’t done a thing to better themselves or mankind in the past 1000 years so what exactly are they good for?”
Thus speaks a man who not only knows no history, but has made up his own version to satisfy his partisan political perspectives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_astronomers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabir_Ibn_Hayyan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhazen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophthalmology_in_medieval_Islam
Now that I’ve given you the rhetoridcal “red ass”, why don’t you go spin your history somewhere else?
“The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract.”
April 10th, 2006 at 9:29 amOliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
#160 I know, IRI, as long as you aren’t getting hurt, who cares? Very American of you. You ignorance and lack of patriotism are shown when you compare diplomacy with footsy.
You are a fleeting bunch. Seek psychological help for your hatred and get some anger management. You are not representative our great nation. But, it does take a few of your kind to bring the sane together.
April 10th, 2006 at 9:32 amBush has obvioulsy gone insane. Lets take a look at this and a few possible spinoffs. Bush uses a nuke in Iran. 1. Iran declares war on the US and invades Iraq. Iraqi Shiites rise up to support the invasion and American troops are caught on two sides. 2.Iran gets a hold of a nuke and, in return, detonates it somewhere in the US. 3. China and Russia, who each have signed major oil deals with Iran get pissed. Russia begins providing IRan with intelligence info and weapons. China demands payment on 620 billion dollars it holds in US securities exploding the US deficit resulting in double digit inflation. Any refusal of the US to pay-up causes foreign investors to shun US securites (afterall if we won’t pay China what guarantee is there we would pay anyone) Uncertainty over the oil supply results adds to the financial chaos, gas/oil/natural gas prices skyrocket adding more inflation. Interest rates skyrocket and Americans stop buying stuff because it is no longer affordable causing US financial markets to collapse. This is turn creates widespread doulbe digit employment adding more fuel to the financial bonfire. I could on and on.
When all is said and done, it is unlikely that the scenario will play out the way I’ve indicated above. BUT even if one thing I’ve listed above happens, we’re screwed.
April 10th, 2006 at 10:27 amNow that I’ve given you the rhetoridcal “red assâ€, why don’t you go spin your history somewhere else?
Comment by Democrat Soldier
All you did was prove me right. They haven’t done squat for 1000 years and what little they did do they stole from other cultures. “Arabic” numbers for example first came from India. Here’s an interesting little article that pretty much destroys any notion that Islam did much of anything at all except conquer peaceful nations and murder by the tens of thousands. The fact is if there was ever a cursed group of people the Arab is it.
“Hyping Islam ’s role in the History of Science
July 29th, 2005
The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) claims for its journal Science
“the largest paid circulation of any peer-reviewed general science journal in the world, with an estimated total readership of one million.â€
Thus when it publishes a politically correct history of the relationship between science and Islam, as filled with errors as a garbage can left too long in the sun is filled with maggots, its falsehoods enter credulous and influential minds on every continent, including Antarctica.
[...]
The “Islamic scholars†who translated “ancient Greece’s natural philosophy†were a curious group of Muslims, since all or almost all of the translators from Greek to Arabic were Christians or Jews, as were the translators from Arabic to Latin. Consider the astonishing statement of Bernard Lewis in The Muslim Discovery of Europe:
We know of no Muslim scholar or man of letters before the eighteenth century who sought to learn a western language, still less of any attempt to produce grammars, dictionaries, or other language tools. Translations are few and far between. Those that are known are works chosen for practical purposes [philosophy being considered a practical discipline] and the translations are made by converts [who knew western languages before conversion] or non-Muslims.
According to Franz Rosenthal in The Classical Heritage in Islam,
“Almost all of the translators [from Greek into Syriac or Hebrew or from Greek, Syriac, or Hebrew into Arabic] were Christians.†”
http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4685
April 10th, 2006 at 10:33 amAll they do is murder and take up valuable real estate. It’s high time we whack ‘em.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 9:14 am
Some could say the same about us… Then what?
April 10th, 2006 at 10:41 amUnbelievable, the other day you said something to MA about IRI lying in bed next to you – any chance we could get you to grab the lamp on the nightstand and ‘whack ‘im’ with it?
April 10th, 2006 at 10:49 am#165 – Based on “Right between the I’s” logic, then everything that was invented in the US was based on someone else’s knowledge, therefore we have not done squat for our entire history.
What “Right between the I’s” ignores is the advances in medicine, mathematical equations, astronomy, and philosophy care of the Muslim faith and the “barbarians” of their countries have brought us.
It would be like saying “the numerical system we use was defined by another culture, so all the advances we made using that numerical system really weren’t really “our” achievements.
I’ll be you were a “C” grade student, “Right between the I’s”. Your ability to ignore inconvenient facts would be looked upon with disfavor by qualified teachers.
April 10th, 2006 at 10:54 amUnbelievable, the other day you said something to MA about IRI lying in bed next to you – any chance we could get you to grab the lamp on the nightstand and ‘whack ‘im’ with it?
Comment by Quadrajet — April 10, 2006 @ 10:49 am
It was a joke. I knew I’d live to regret it…
But, I’d be happy to hit him in the head for you if I can find a lamp that reaches to Houston from here.
April 10th, 2006 at 10:57 amThis:
the USA is more than willing to kill 50 million of their people, take over the country and turn it into a theme park.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 9:14 am
Followed by this:
I think we’ve spent enough time and energy playing footsy with these barbarians.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 9:14 am
You gotta love those who advocate genocide and mass murder because *the others* are barbarians…
April 10th, 2006 at 11:01 amsupermushroom and comment#115 are both mentally sick in my opinion. I agree with comment #118 (Jay Randal). No one in his right mind will advocate something like this against fellow human being.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:08 amShame on you!
Sorry Unbelievable, I couldn’t resist:) I too was joking, I really don’t believe an additional head injury would help…..
April 10th, 2006 at 11:08 amSorry Unbelievable, I couldn’t resist:) I too was joking, I really don’t believe an additional head injury would help…..
Comment by Quadrajet — April 10, 2006 @ 11:08 am
Well, in that case then, I owe you one? ;)
Another whack help? Probably not… But he would most likely enjoy it.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:17 amSome could say the same about us… Then what?
Comment by unbelievable
Some do say that…..in Arabic. Thus my comment. There are idiots on this site that don’t think the Muslims want to muder us and it’s quite OK if Iran gets a bomb. They are beyond stupid but fortunatly are few and far between anywhere in the country except places like this. Oh, by the way. Just found out that Jill Carrol is an American hating anti-semitic Left Wing Fucktard. I could tell by looking at her she was insane…
Jill had arrived, I gathered, fairly recently from Jordan having been in Baghdad just before the war started. She was a friendly, personable person. Her Arabic was not that good, though she was trying very hard to improve it. We generally sat next to each other and were, for some of the time, study partners.
She was very anti-American. I was actually shocked by her attitude, having never come across an American with such opinions. She was against the war and did not see America as being a force for good in the world. I recall her upsetting a fellow American student by telling him that she felt Americans were hated by Arabs. He did not feel that was the case. She expressed satisfaction that I mistook her for Canadian saying she would prefer not being identified as American.
She was more than anti-war. She felt that America was culturally imperialist. She viewed the international success of American culture as being a way for America to impose its values on the world. She expressed the sort of opinions which you would hear from [Noam] Chomsky. It would be fair to say that she would be classified as somebody from the far left. I can not recall all the details of what she said, but I remember her saying that at the end of the day America was just another empire which would come hopefully to an end.
With regard to Israel, she despised the country with some venom, referring to the country as “that state.” She was practically foaming at the mouth. She knew I was Jewish, and I felt quite shocked and vulnerable at the way she expressed herself about the country. It did cross my mind that she may have been anti-Semitic, though I prefer not to label people.
She was at her wits end with regard to Christian support in America for Israel and referred to the Bible as “that shit book” in regard to it being used as a reason for Israelis holding on to the land.
As you can see, she is a girl of strong opinions and I am sure others will come forth to verify this.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:20 amhttp://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/04/anatomy_of_an_e.html
[...] But what makes Sy’s words all the more sobering is when he appears with TV commentators to explain in further depth. Check ThinkProgess for the video and a brief commentary by someone I refer to as “The Fake Nico”. (There can only be one. – The Highlander) [Sunday] on CNN, New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh addressed the uproar at the highest levels of the U.S. military over plans to launch a massive strike against Iran that would include nuclear weapons: [...]
April 10th, 2006 at 11:36 amIRI, the subject of the thread is a report that some senior military officials are ready to resign if the insanity of a nuclear strike against Iran is not taken off the table. In response, you post something about Jill Carrol. Relevence please?
April 10th, 2006 at 11:54 amIt was a joke. I knew I’d live to regret it…
But, I’d be happy to hit him in the head for you if I can find a lamp that reaches to Houston from here.
Comment by unbelievable
I must have missed that one! You realize of course that you’re not the only gal around here that has sexual fantasies about me? Kindness and Progressive and Proud both simply slide off their seats when I’m around and though Ryan Neat claims to a be a guy I know when someone’s hitting on me.
Ok, back to the story. Why is it that Liberals are such terrorist appeasing French-like cheese eating surrender monkeys? They are simple ill equipped to deal with the reality of the situation. They are scared shitless….of everything.
“In our most recent survey, Liberals in general were 43% more likely to report general anxiety disorder than Conservatives. They were 115% more likely to report panic disorders, 119% more likely to report agoraphobic symptoms, 118% more likely to report OCD symptoms. and 54% more likely to report social anxiety disorder. When broken down further into Very Conservative, Conservative, Liberal and Very Liberal cohorts, the numbers spread further apart. The Very Conservatives have the lowest rates of anxiety disorders, the Very Liberals the highest.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:54 amhttp://neuropolitics.org/
This sure is rattling a lot of confused little neo-cons.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:03 pmIRI writes: “Ok, back to the story. Why is it that Liberals are such terrorist appeasing French-like cheese eating surrender monkeys? They are simple ill equipped to deal with the reality of the situation. They are scared shitless….of everything.”
Wrong again IED, I mean IRI. This has nothing to do with the story unless you’re implying that senior military officials are ‘terrorist appeasing French-like cheese eating surrender monkeys’.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:03 pmThe Very Conservatives have the lowest rates of anxiety disorders, the Very Liberals the highest.
http://neuropolitics.org/
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 11:54 am
I know what you’re up to.
Fortunatley for you, it’s busy right now… but I’ll be back. While I’m gone, hold your breath :)
April 10th, 2006 at 12:13 pmThis:
There are idiots on this site that don’t think the Muslims want to muder us and it’s quite OK if Iran gets a bomb.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 11:20 am
Followed by this:
[Liberals] are scared shitless….of everything.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 11:54 am
Who is scared out of their wits, again?
IRI is unhinged -yet again… he is as irrelevant as his posts are asinine and entirely besides the point.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:17 pmIn response, you post something about Jill Carrol. Relevence please?
Comment by Quadrajet —
Wrong again IED, I mean IRI. This has nothing to do with the story unless you’re implying that senior military officials are ‘terrorist appeasing French-like cheese eating surrender monkeys’.
Comment by Quadrajet
Hersh is a liar therefore irrelevant thus anything I post that would seem to you to be off topic is actually just an addition to an already hopelessly stupid post. At least my addition is factual and entertaining. I mean aren’t you glad I told you Jill is a ratbastardcommiemofo and most liberals are neurotics? Those are fun facts to know and tell.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm#163 – Mark, interesting scenario you make if there is a US strike on Iran. However, I have to say that even though China may be pissed it will not do anything like calling in US paper. If you ever have the occasion to watch on satellite news from Beijing or Asian Business on Bloomberg there is one thing very apparent. The Chinese are very much aware of America’s role in their rapid growth. They firmly believe that they will replace the US as the global leader of the world. If you watch and read enough information on this I think you will conclude that it is hard to argue with that position. It will take a few decades but it will ultimately happen. Any financial altercation with the US would interfere or impede this eventuality. I can see your points on Russia though since they are very slow moving economically and their downside of screwing with the US would be very limited.
The real problem with a US strike is the certainty of a strike against the US on US soil. As I have said before that is the greatest danger. The danger is that people in the US would begin to alter their behavior. If that were to happen the US economy would implode at a very fast rate. Equity markets would sell off in anticipation of reduced revenues and earnings and debt tied to equities would quickly become non performing or junk rated. That of course would effect many of our allies and a global depression could be a real consequence.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:39 pmWho is scared out of their wits, again?
IRI is unhinged -yet again… he is as irrelevant as his posts are asinine and entirely besides the point.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I’m not scared at all until some gutless Donk gets in office and tries to get us all killed. Right now we’ve got people in office that know what needs to be done to protect our country. We’ve got the Churchill’s you’ve got the Chamberlain’s. Really, it’s as simple as that.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:40 pmThe real problem with a US strike is the certainty of a strike against the US on US soil. As I have said before that is the greatest danger.
Comment by Ben
Just who would retaliate?
April 10th, 2006 at 12:42 pmI must have missed that one! You realize of course that you’re not the only gal around here that has sexual fantasies about me?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 11:54 am
It’s in the Harry aTylor forum.
Explain to me exactly how it’s possible to have fantasies about someone when you don’t know what he looks like?
April 10th, 2006 at 12:49 pmGuys, I-RIGHT-I is a neo-con/ zionist shill…I suspect that this discussion is getting a bit too close to comfort for some of them hence the disrupting tactics and the usual ‘anti-semetic’ slurs and BS. Ignore them as you ignored the earlier ones.
The topic of war against Iran is too important to get sidelined by their little tactics. The more hysterical they get the more dangerous the discussion is getting.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:50 pmJust who would retaliate?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 12:42 pm
China and Russia
April 10th, 2006 at 12:50 pmnow that Bush has failed to convert Iraqi’s to Christianity, Iran might be willing to convert under the threat of nuclear annihilation. That would be a Christian act of “SALVATION” where the true believers would survive and the on-believers would burn in a hell storm.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:51 pmIRI – One has to ask why the US has not encountered suicide bombers in the US four and half years after 9/11. Is it because there are no individuals like those in Iraq and Israel? I don’t think so. Strategically it does not serve their interest. It would only rally further military action against the region. Much better for them if we continue to beat up ourselves over matters of “illegal war” and “torture”. However a nuclear strike, even a tactical one, would cause the enemy to rethink their strategy.
So the retaliation I believe would come from individuals within the US who are awaiting their marching orders.
If you have not already seen the movie Dirty Bomb I recommend it. It is hard to argue how something like that could not happen here.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:52 pmExplain to me exactly how it’s possible to have fantasies about someone when you don’t know what he looks like?
Comment by unbelievable
Women aren’t turned on by visuals, you know that. You’re in love with my manly charm, irrepressible wit and infectious good humor. Not only that but as a woman you really get off on a man that is willing to kill anyone that would harm her. Liberal pussies and metro-sexual effeminates don’t do it for you. Of course you fantasize about me.
Oh by the way. I almost sent you the one pic I have in digital format but then I thought if you get mad at me I’d be real sorry. For some reason I’m pretty easy to get mad at. Imagine that.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:11 pmJust who would retaliate?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 12:42 pm
China and Russia
Comment by unbelievable
Not a chance. Both China and Russia are aware of and FEAR M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction)
April 10th, 2006 at 2:15 pmOh by the way. I almost sent you the one pic I have in digital format but then I thought if you get mad at me I’d be real sorry. For some reason I’m pretty easy to get mad at. Imagine that.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
Remember, my parents were more conservative than yours. By your wacky theories that makes me more trustworthy.
Plus, I’ve never told anyone anything you’ve told me in confidence. And no matter how mad you make me, I won’t.
Just send it already.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:16 pm“In our most recent survey, Liberals in general were 43% more likely to report general anxiety disorder than Conservatives. They were 115% more likely to report panic disorders, 119% more likely to report agoraphobic symptoms, 118% more likely to report OCD symptoms. and 54% more likely to report social anxiety disorder.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 11:54 am
more likely to report does not mean more than. Comprendez-vous?
April 10th, 2006 at 2:18 pmFor some reason I’m pretty easy to get mad at. Imagine that.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
I don’t take you that seriously, remember ;)
April 10th, 2006 at 2:19 pmIRI – One has to ask why the US has not encountered suicide bombers in the US four and half years after 9/11. Is it because there are no individuals like those in Iraq and Israel? I don’t think so. Strategically it does not serve their interest. It would only rally further military action against the region. Much better for them if we continue to beat up ourselves over matters of “illegal war†and “tortureâ€. However a nuclear strike, even a tactical one, would cause the enemy to rethink their strategy.
So the retaliation I believe would come from individuals within the US who are awaiting their marching orders.
If you have not already seen the movie Dirty Bomb I recommend it. It is hard to argue how something like that could not happen here.
Comment by Ben
I don’t disagree that it can happen here. Like others I believe it’s not if, but when they strike. I don’t believe though that a tactical nuke on an Iranian nuclear facility would be that earthshaking of an event. Of course the Filthy Left around the world would make plenty of hay out of it and do their best to inflame the Arab street but the fact is allowing Iran and the crazy bastards that run the country to have nuclear weapons is SUICIDE for the West not just America. The Europeans know this and will go along if it turns out to be the only way.
As far as why we haven’t been hit since 9-11 goes, I think it’s because they shot their wad on 9-11 and we’ve disrupted their organizational ability to pull off another strike as spectacular as that one. There are rumors that Iran or other hosts of Islamofanatacism have successfully obtained a nuclear device from Ukraine and if it’s true we might be in danger from one of those. The bottom line though and why we are in Iraq and must do something about Iran is this; if the USA or Europe gets hit with a nuclear bomb the West will in the following 24 hours eradicate a large portion of the population in the Middle East. We must stop the Muslim headchoppers from acquiring an atomic weapon.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:28 pm“Fallen, Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird. For all the nations have drunk the maddening wine of her adulteries. The kings fo the earth committed adultery with her and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
Come out of her my people so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; for her sinds are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes. Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Give her much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, “I sit as queen; I am not a widow and I will never mourn”
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her; death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire for mighty is the Lord God who judges her. When the kings of the earth who committed adulter with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. Terrified at her torment, they will stand FAR off and cry; “Woe, woe, O great city, O Bbylon, city of power. In one hour your doom has come!
America is that babylon.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:35 pmAdditionally, if Israel has not yet concluded to make the strike, then it is hard to imagine the rationale being used by this administration that would warrant we precede Israel’s often and necessarily preemptive strategy. Certainly the threat to Israel from Iran, when coupled with the Palestinian election of a radical Hamas government, would far exceed any presumed threat to America.
Comment by Daniel DiRito
So, you reason that if Israel hasn’t already bombed Iran then we must be exaggerating the threat? You fail to take into consideration that it’s possible the only reason Israel has not already taken out those facilities is that A, We told them to stay out of it as we did during the Gulf War, or B, They don’t have the bunker busters to do the job. The threat level to Israel vs. to the USA from Iran isn’t the issue and never will be unless some gutless Israel hating Democrats get control of our military.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:45 pmThis blogging is quite interesting (and fun to read), but the answer(s) to these issues is fairly simple: America (both military and corporate) should return home and let the world sort itself into..whatever. What springs to my mind is a “liberal” nightmare: isolationism. We have neither the right nor responsibility to impose anything on anybody. I could launch into a lenghty tirade regarding America’s sins (stealing this land from the native peoples, allowing slave holders, property owners, white men, etc. to wield the levers of power,and so on, ad infinitum), but this line of logic would not solve any of our current problems. Just come home America and attempt to solve the numerous problems we find ourselves confronted with: gender inequality, racial inequality, wealth redistibution, the electoral college, encouraging the non-voting 50% to participate, etc., etc., etc. COME HOME AMERICA!!!
April 10th, 2006 at 2:52 pmAmerica is that babylon.
Comment by Kirbness
Nope.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:55 pmI’ll be just as thoughtful…yep.
April 10th, 2006 at 2:58 pmThis blogging is quite interesting (and fun to read), but the answer(s) to these issues is fairly simple: America (both military and corporate) should return home and let the world sort itself into..whatever. What springs to my mind is a “liberal†nightmare: isolationism. We have neither the right nor responsibility to impose anything on anybody.
So then you’d stand back and watch the rape and murder of my little sister when you had the opportunity and the means to save her? Same difference.
I could launch into a lenghty tirade regarding America’s sins (stealing this land from the native peoples, allowing slave holders, property owners, white men, etc. to wield the levers of power,and so on, ad infinitum), but this line of logic would not solve any of our current problems.
Oh, so you’re a flaming leftwingfuckwit. Go ahead and launch into one of your “Evil White Man” routines. I’ll be happy to play along.
Just come home America and attempt to solve the numerous problems we find ourselves confronted with: gender inequality, racial inequality, wealth redistibution, the electoral college, encouraging the non-voting 50% to participate, etc., etc., etc. COME HOME AMERICA!!!
Comment by ron shy
The only real problem we have in this country are self loathing American fucktards like you. It will be nice to finally start filling up all those “re-education” camps we’ve been building out in W. Texas for you. With any luck you’ll get the cell next to Ben Affleck.
April 10th, 2006 at 3:07 pmI’ll be just as thoughtful…yep.
Comment by kirbness
Well, be real thoughtful and post your biblical proofs to back up your claim.
April 10th, 2006 at 3:09 pmRemember, my parents were more conservative than yours. By your wacky theories that makes me more trustworthy.
Comment by unbelievable
I don’t have any wacky theories about conservative parents. One of the more recent women I’ve gone out with was the daughter of a small Texas town Baptist preacher. Wow. The stories are true. I have a lot of guilt over that one. Really.
April 10th, 2006 at 3:33 pmWhere were these military leaders when Zinni and friends took the fall? Where were these patriots when this administration started an illegal preemptive war?
April 10th, 2006 at 4:29 pmWhere were these military leaders when Zinni and friends took the fall? Where were these patriots when this administration started an illegal preemptive war?
April 10th, 2006 at 4:29 pmI think we’ve spent enough time and energy playing footsy with these barbarians. They haven’t done a thing to better themselves or mankind in the past 1000 years so what exactly are they good for? All they do is murder and take up valuable real estate. It’s high time we whack ‘em.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #160
I’ncoherent-R’acist-I’ngrate,
I agree wholeheartedly…
…all of you TREASONOUS, psycopathic, mass murdering, lying, incestuous, racist, right wing conservative al Cracker Bushite pedophiles…
…are the worst form of worthless sh*t to pollute the earth, with your recessive inbred gene pool…
…you should ALL be WHACKED with all deliberate speed…
…in order that mankind might not only progress, but indeed survive…
April 10th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThe bottom line though and why we are in Iraq and must do something about Iran is this; if the USA or Europe gets hit with a nuclear bomb the West will in the following 24 hours eradicate a large portion of the population in the Middle East.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I #195
IRI,
…if that happens…
…America’s enemies in Russia, China, South America, Europe and the ME…
…will pull out all the stops to hasten America’s demise…
…America will be isolated and slowly bled economically…
…and I daresay that if “conservatives”retain power…
…civil war inside America may become an imminent reality…
…you (personally) have only a certain amount of bullets…
…and will run out…
…your TREASONOUS, maniacal, inbred kind will be eradicated…
April 10th, 2006 at 4:41 pmUnited we Stand in Impeaching the President
April 10th, 2006 at 4:57 pmI can’t belive such a bunch of sadist criminals have been elected by americans.
April 10th, 2006 at 5:09 pmSupermushroom:
What have you been eating or is it that you are indeed living like a mushroom? If there is one group of people who need to be stopped, it’s you pseudo-Christians. I can think of no greater act of blasphemy than to bomb the shit out of another country without warrant (and let’s face it, America’s track record in that department is quite stellar) in the name of a god and messiah whom, by all accounts, would find such acts reprehensible. Take your violence and rhetoric elsewhere. Idiot.
April 10th, 2006 at 5:31 pmSadly, most Americans are indeed sadists…. and if they’re not they are inclined to be a sadist or on the verge of becoming one…. the rest are either a closit sadist or supportive of sadists…
How else could a sadist be elected to become President…?
… Oh and the rest are in denial…
April 10th, 2006 at 5:42 pmI don’t have any wacky theories about conservative parents.
Yes you do:
my general mistrust and dislike of women who’ve been raised by liberal fuckwit parents and libertine media during the sixties and seventies.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 7, 2006 @ 2:45 pm
My parents weren’t liberal fuckwits. Therefore, by your standards, you should trust me. Seriously, you have more ammo on me than I do on you. And, really, I’m not 12. I’m starting to think you’re just afraid that I won’t think you’re sexy… Since when did you start to care about what I think?
Oh, and for the record, I tolerate you because I’m a touchy-feely liberal gal who pities the mutt in the gutter, whereas you are wildly in love with me because, unlike you’re normal operating procedure, you already started out at repulsive and there’s no where for you to go from there but up.
One of the more recent women I’ve gone out with was the daughter of a small Texas town Baptist preacher. Wow. The stories are true. I have a lot of guilt over that one. Really.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 3:33 pm
And yet it doesn’t seem to slow you down. Amazing. Really.
April 10th, 2006 at 5:46 pmWith any luck you’ll get the cell next to Ben Affleck.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 10, 2006 @ 3:07 pm
No way you’ll get him. He’s too pretty. You’ll have to shoot through atleast a few hundred adoring female body shields. And perhaps a few adorning male body shields as well. He’s pretty damn hot. The real question is – are you? ;)
April 10th, 2006 at 5:51 pmIran is most responsible for the roadside bombings of OUR troops. Yet everyone that post here seems to think Iran is the victim here. If you say we should support our troops eleminating there primary aggressors should be priority.
April 10th, 2006 at 6:16 pmI support a military coup if the goal is to restore the Constitution and hold new elections for all federal offices within 90 days. This coup would include an “executive decapitation” that would immediately remove Bush and Cheney from power (placing them behind bars) and install interim leaders of wide positive repute.
Repeat: I now support a military coup if it follows the simple outline above.
Resigning is the pussy thing to do that this time in the republic’s history. The Bush Regime is breaking the Constitution left and right, so this is no longer a question of impeachment. They must be physically removed.
If the military doesn’t do it, the people will have no choice but to consider a mass lynching. And that won’t be pretty.
So I’ll use this post to beg our military leaders–Most of us will support you if you have to remove the President. The Constitution is what we treasure above all else.
April 10th, 2006 at 6:53 pmSeymour Hersh on the military…
From Think Progress:HERSH: When the JCS, the Joint Chiefs and the planners then wanted to walk back that option [to use nuclear weapons], what happened is about three or four weeks ago, the White House – people in the White…
April 10th, 2006 at 7:25 pm#215 i have a better chace of getting hit by lighting and winning lotto at the same time than a militery coup. dream a more realistic dream. Bush is there for three and a half more years. get use to it. we have to concentrate on the congress. if you cant chop the head cut’em off at th knees.
April 10th, 2006 at 8:28 pmbeen reading about this nuke option in so many articles/foreign press/alt media for months-if Sy is writing about it and it has hit the MSM artery, then it confirms the fears of previous writers on this–this administraton WILL DO ANYTHING-someone better STOP them-NOW.
April 10th, 2006 at 8:38 pmWrong between the eyes: You look so cool when you use the work “fuck” or any word combined with “tard”. Please keep it up so that we liberals may also aspire to shove our heads as far up our asses as you have.
On topic, I agree with those who say that resigning doesn’t mean shit. Where will they take their families if they resign? Will they flee to Canada? WTF?!
April 10th, 2006 at 10:45 pmImagine, if you will, an administration in the White House that focused on its own people and their own citizenry, like they obsess over the Middle East.
Imagine what $200 Billion (billion with a B) could do to advance the citizens of the US to become a productive, kind, tolerant nation. A nation that was respected abroad and led the world, not by force and violence, but by example. Its disgusting that anyone would advocate the use of nuclear weaponry against another nation. Radiation travels world wide, and those who suffer most are the generations that follow. Chernobyl is an example of what could happen to generations of Middle Easterners, Indians, and as the gulf stream heads to Hawaii, the continental US…
Sure worth it, isnt’ it?
Go Duh-bya. You da man!!!!
April 10th, 2006 at 11:13 pmTo I-RIGHT-I and all those other war hawks out there take note you are the reason America is hated the world over.
MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIM! [you'll find it in your bibles.]
To the other Americans I say take courage and when the time cames for action be bold as all our futures may depend on you.
To err once can be a mistake, twice is criminal folly
The Sentinel
April 11th, 2006 at 2:02 amTo err once can be a mistake, twice is criminal folly MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIM! [you’ll find it in your bibles.]
The Sentinel
Comment by The Sentinael
Why is it you America hating Left Wing Dimwits are always quoting the Bible? The handwriting is on the wall for the Filthy Left. Too bad most of you are illiterate.
April 11th, 2006 at 9:52 amHave any of these fools contemplated the effects of nuclear fallout all over our troops in Iraq?
You can’t even drop a nuclear bunker buster without nuclear fallout. If you drop nuclear weapons on Iran you will not only spread fallout over our troops in Iraq but possibly enough fallout over Russian controlled territory to trip off first strike early warning sensors.
Is this fool Bush prepared to risk the vaporization of an American city?
Trust me on this, Bush’s fantasy star wars missile defense program cannot stop a retaliation. Further, if anyone thinks North Korea & other countries are just going to sit idly by while we start popping nukes off is certifiably insane.
If Bush insist on brandishing nuclear weapons like a fool then the military should relieve him of command. This type of irresponsible rhetoric has moved the clock closer to midnight.
April 11th, 2006 at 11:01 amIf Bush insist on brandishing nuclear weapons like a fool then the military should relieve him of command. This type of irresponsible rhetoric has moved the clock closer to midnight.
Comment by Gar
Hey, stupid…the iresponsible rhetoric came from a Left Wing ratbastardcommie Jew in NYC, not from Bush. Oh, and I suggested we nuke them too but my suggestion didn’t get splashed all over the front page of every Liberal rag in the country.
April 11th, 2006 at 11:19 amHe’s pretty damn hot. The real question is – are you? ;)
Comment by unbelievable
Not so much. I’m more like a good cup of coffee. Not so hot it burns your mouth but certainly not tepid. I’d say “fair and warmer”, although I have been compared more than once to a Greek god. They never did say which one….hummm.
April 11th, 2006 at 11:24 amI have no doubt the reported planning to use tactical nukes in Iran is true. Muted speculation began late last year when the Pentagon re-wrote the SIOP to include the use of first-strike tactical nuclear weapons. The United States has forsworn the use of pre-emptive nuclear strikes since the end of WWII. We were willing to risk letting the Soviets take the first shot, but now we need to re-write the rules?
The “evidence” that Iran is anywhere close to a working weapon is sketchy at best, probably as cobbled together as before, but the rhetoric builds anew. And do you know who was working on intelligence gathering on Iran’s nuclear program ? Valerie Plame. How convenient. This Administration is drunk on power and delusions of an “American Empire.” I have felt at times that the President is a secret Armagedonist, that extreme branch of Christian fundamentalism that actively seeks to begin the End Of Days. Well, if he nukes Iran, he’ll get his wish, but not like scripture.
The US would be condemned world-wide. The Arabs would immediately embargo the US. Unlike 30 years ago, there are PLENTY of industrialized countries to gladly buy up the extra production. Remember that prices are an artificial construct based on demand, not the cost of production. Even if prices tumble to the level of 4 years ago, which is doubtful, the Arabs will not be hurting. Isolated and running out of fuel, we will have no options. It doesn’t matter what the price of gas is if there’s no gas, and what little domestic petroleum available would be rationed for electrical generation and food supply. Any move to invade an oil-producing nation will unite the whole world against us. Without fuel or allies, the US military is unable to act and any posturing or threats of retaliation only leave the US further isolated from a world suddenly openly hostile. Social and economic collapse will be quick. The dollar, and the Constitution , becomes worthless, and bingo, the birth of the new American Fascist Theocracy. Maybe that’s the plan.
The question is, will the military go along with this recipe for disaster, or step up? Where is their true allegiance, Constitutional governance or power?
April 11th, 2006 at 11:28 amYeah, I know it sounds like a paranoid rant, but what would motivate career military to discuss such scenarios with the press if they weren’t true? I have casually joked over the last six years that these guys were running the country like they’re never leaving the Oval Office. It’s not so funny anymore.
Oh, and I suggested we nuke them too but my suggestion didn’t get splashed all over the front page of every Liberal rag in the country.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 11, 2006 @ 11:19 am
Unfortunately you’re not special enough… except to me ;)
April 11th, 2006 at 11:29 amNot so much.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 11, 2006 @ 11:24 am
I bet you are. Only one way to know for certain ;)
April 11th, 2006 at 11:31 amI’d say “fair and warmerâ€,
That’s actually more my type. I’m uncomfortable with exceeding good-looking men.
although I have been compared more than once to a Greek god. They never did say which one….hummm.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 11, 2006 @ 11:24 am
Is there even a Greek God of overwhelming humility? :)
April 11th, 2006 at 11:50 amWe must trust and hope that our Military remembers it has sworn a duty to protect and defend the Constitution, not a man!
April 11th, 2006 at 1:05 pmSupermushroom:
Are you as crazy as your rant appears? You can’t just nuke the military! It will affect all in its way for hundreds of miles. It will also set off WWIII.
Check out what happened in Japan.
What kind of Christian are you? None I’ve ever heard of until Bush and his ilk came to office.
I sure hope you were kidding.
Cathy
April 11th, 2006 at 1:45 pmFrom the once great State of Michigan
The good news is, the 25th amendment provides a way to remove a president from duty, at least temporarily. The bad news is, it has to be done by the VP and 2/3 of the cabinet. So obviously, they wouldn’t do it in the first place and if they did, it would just give Cheney the formal power he already wields behind the throne.
I seem to remember hearing something about how during Watergate, James Schlessinger (then Sec. of Defense) took extra precautions to ensure that if Nixon went really off his rocker, he couldn’t just push the nuclear button without somebody in the chain of command being able to stop him. Whatever their politics, there were at least some sane cabinet members back then. Too bad for us that the current SoD is as crazy (maybe crazier) than the preznit.
April 11th, 2006 at 2:09 pmSupermushroom:
Are you as crazy as your rant appears? You can’t just nuke the military! It will affect all in its way for hundreds of miles. It will also set off WWIII.
Comment by Cathy
The idea is to nuke the underground bunkers, not our military. Please pay attention to the plan.
Check out what happened in Japan.
Let’s see, what happened in Japan? Oh yeah, the surrendered and we didn’t lose a million men trying to capture the island. Nukes are good for things like killing the enemy while not getting your own guys killed.
What kind of Christian are you? None I’ve ever heard of until Bush and his ilk came to office.
What kind of Christian are you? Oh, you’re not a stinking Christian? Then what do you care or what do you know about different “kinds” of Christians? How rude!
I sure hope you were kidding.
Cathy
From the once great State of Michigan
Michigan sucks and no I’m not kidding.
April 11th, 2006 at 3:30 pmIs there even a Greek God of overwhelming humility? :)
Comment by unbelievable
Nope, that would be the Christian God during His incarnation.
April 11th, 2006 at 3:32 pmNope, that would be the Christian God during His incarnation.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 11, 2006 @ 3:32 pm
If there is a God, then we are all his incarnations. Even Jesus said so. Organized religion just ignores that part.
April 11th, 2006 at 4:02 pmBetter the military should force the Bushniks to resign — or take them out and shoot them, as will wind up happening in the end. Given that the voting system has been hijacked, and the media mostly captured, and the popuation mostly silenced, the Congress mostly gutless, the military is the most likely agent of American liberation.
‘Twas ever thus.
April 11th, 2006 at 7:05 pmBetter the military should force the Bushniks to resign — or take them out and shoot them, as will wind up happening in the end. Given that the voting system has been hijacked, and the media mostly captured, and the population mostly silenced, the Congress mostly gutless, the military is the most likely agent of American liberation.
‘Twas ever thus.
April 11th, 2006 at 7:13 pmreply to supermushroom, lol, you write quality stuff. The best example of christianity creating peace is the period of 1922-45 when the german christians (nazis) worked their magic.
April 11th, 2006 at 9:56 pm[...] • At ThinkPro, Hersh isn’t naming names, but he is dropping bombs. [...]
April 12th, 2006 at 12:17 am222 I-Right-I said”Too bad most of you are illiterate.”
For the record IRI, I am not only literate, ergo my presence here, I completed my 7th form year [you call it graduating high school] and graduated as a History major from one of NZ’s top universities.
As for quoying the bible, it is an exception undertaken in an attempt to communicate with the bible obssessed Christofascists in the UFSA [United Fascist States of America].
The Sentinel
April 12th, 2006 at 12:42 am222 again
No IRI I don’t hate America, just some of the fascist scum that give it such a bad name.
It would be stupid to hate an entire nation, even you would agree with that?
The Sentinel
April 12th, 2006 at 12:47 amAs for quoying the bible, it is an exception undertaken in an attempt to communicate with the bible obssessed Christofascists in the UFSA [United Fascist States of America].
The Sentinel
Comment by The Sentinael
I’ll remember you said that when they ask me if the USA should help bail out you wankers when the indigenous peoples you screwed get the Muslims to help them kick you of the islands.
No IRI I don’t hate America, just some of the fascist scum that give it such a bad name.
It would be stupid to hate an entire nation, even you would agree with that?
The Sentinel
Comment by The Sentinael
No, I’d say who gives a fat rat’s ass what some sheep f’ing wanker from an irrelevant clod of dirt thinks about America.
April 12th, 2006 at 1:56 pmSince the Congress does not have the guts to impeach the Bushzis, I think a military coup of the House, Senate and White House would be a reasonable option.
When the hogs all feed out of the same trough, doesn’t make any difference which side they are on? Republicans, Democrats, does’t make any difference. Corporate America has bought our government.
Perhaps the military can get our freedom back.
April 13th, 2006 at 11:33 am“No, I’d say who gives a fat rat’s ass what some sheep f’ing wanker from an irrelevant clod of dirt thinks about America.”
get a life you imperilaist moron!
The Sentinel
April 14th, 2006 at 8:22 amBushco has you Americans in a bind. There is no question that he is guility of “high crimes and misdemeanors (someone would have to explain the meaning of that last word to Bush)”. But what can you do? Impeach and then remove him? Then what do you do with Cheney, who is your de facto president? If he had a pacemaker, you could manufacture some sort of electromagnetic pulse and shut it down electrically. But I don’t think that’s an option. I’m not as knowledgeable as I should be regarding the powers of Congress, but they could try to shut him down somehow with some kind of law forbidding any kind of military action in Iran without Congressional approval. Fat lot of good that did in the 1980’s, though, with your heroic icon, Ronald Reagan. (How did he avoid impeachment when he obviously broke a law Congress passed to keep him out of Nicaragua, resulting in many deaths and a string of Congressional hearings that went nowhere?). You could try holding your breath till November, and then vote in a Democratic HofR and Senate, but that’s a long way off. Nope. I think you’re screwed. How many Americans know that in early 2005 the Bush Admin called for 15,000 volunteers to man Selective Service offices across the nation? You are becoming a police state with no effective way of stopping a war-mongering madman, short of a military coup. And even if that happened, you’re in Iraq for the long haul, and the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are regrouping and laughing at you in Afghanistan. What a mess!!!
April 14th, 2006 at 2:14 pmComments on this blog
April 14th, 2006 at 9:27 pmindicate the decline of
western civilzation if one
takes any of these comments
seriously, especially the
ones by “supermushroom.
We’re back to the middle ages
with this “christian” rhetoric
that only the “christians” know
how to peacefully govern the world.
Ha – the opposite has been the
recorded history of the last 2,000
years with so-called Christian nations.
Total balderdash!!!
WE ” AMERICANS ARE LONG OVER DUE ” FOR A REVOLUTION IT IS TIME TO TAKE OUT THE “BUSH CRIME FAMILY” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 15th, 2006 at 12:01 pm[...] British Prime Minister Tony Blair said that any consideration of a nuclear attack against Iran would be “absolutely absurd,” echoing comments made by his former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. But like Straw, Blair did not discount the idea that there is serious planning underway for a military strike. [...]
May 8th, 2006 at 8:57 amRead at top regarding neocons and how they want to glass over the area. That the end of the world is Good. That they dont want us to live in the Star Trek world of Science and Coapoeration. Well, that may very well be true for some. However, has the same author turned thier microscope on the area of conflict and asked the same question?
Do women in Burkas live in an advancing Scientific Cummunity of Open Minds. Does Iran with their Presidents Rant on Holocost being fiction, Call for wiping Isreal off the map. Bin Laden’s mad crusade against Western World??? Where is the advancement of Science there? Where is the working together in harmony? Hezbolla doesnt even exist as part of their countries elected goverment – existing apart like some poutiing boys with guns.
Watch both sides carefully. Where one is true, the other side is not far off. Both sides are capable of inflicting world disasters. But be carefull you you spend your time working on. You may be working on the bomb with a longer fuse..then its to late to address the other.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:58 am