The Rumsfeld Revolt.
Despite repeated claims by Bush officials that key strategic decisions in Iraq were being made by soldiers in the field, “a common thread in [the] complaints [from retired generals] has been an assertion that Mr. Rumsfeld and his aides too often inserted themselves unnecessarily into military decisionmaking, often disregarding advice from military commanders.”
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Damn the neoconservatives to HELL.
April 14th, 2006 at 12:19 amI guess that’s a big drawback to civilian/political leadership…of course the solution is supposed to be to sack incompetent political apointees. The current generals are stay quiet because Rumsfield has, in fact, taken control of their promotions. Prior to his insertion into the Defense Department the promotions were more or less handled by the military, ie, the highest generals. Apparently Rumsfield has better judgement…
His legacy is going to be that not only did he screw up everything that he touched but that he left his sucessor with senior officers that are too timid with the politicos.
Honestly, though, these retired generals are essentially pathetic in that they should have been telling their story *then*. Their word meant something back then - it would have gotten real attention and could have lead to the sacking of Rumsfield. Instead they all waited until retirement - which usually means waiting to see whether you will get promoted or not or you’re also in love with the military - and then came out against him. Then they can brand you as just a political hack.
When they were in uniform their word did, sadly, matter much more than they do now. What they are essentially doing is blowing the whistle after the damage has been done, which often means after a lot of people have died for no reason. Standing up for your troops and not just your own career is something to be admired a bit more.
I do understand the military reasoning behind it though - people love it and you want the promotion or a better assignment. It’s what my father was like, but he ended up being much more critical of ineptitude and such. He never got his star because of his complaints which he is bitter about for some reason. Even so, getting the eagles (colonel) isn’t that bad when you get to take up a job as a civilian physician after army retirement:)
But yes, it would be nice if some of generals would sacrifice their careers for the good of their men and their country.
April 14th, 2006 at 12:41 amJames, Col. David Hackworth did exactally that in Vietnam, he was a fast track field grade officer who came to see the waste of good troops in that war was actually just a waste and critized but had to resign because he was “disloyal” the right even attacks him today even though he was right then and held views(until his death) that have been proven right by evenyts on the ground in Iraq. Gen. Shinski was a example that did not go unnoticed, he was pushed out by Rumsfeld for speaking the truth that more troops were needed for the COMPLETE mission in Iraq. We weren’t just to overthrow Saddam but to stand up a democracy, and Gen. Shinsiki also been proven right by events on the ground.
Rumsfeld has FAILED in the Iraqi mission and Afghanistan is slipping, and where is Osama, he NEEDS to go so somebody actually compoetent to lead the pentagon and let the Generals do their job. We lost Vietnam partly because the war was micromanaged, just as Rummy is trying the same failed policy in the Iraqi and Afghan theaters…
April 14th, 2006 at 1:14 amIn telling the war’s a mess,
April 14th, 2006 at 1:24 amMistakes; thousands I guess.
From a position sublime,
Cried Rummy, “Non mineâ€
But thought, one or two, non-the less.
It’s an interesting situation. Again and again Bush has made the case that he won’t be put off track, that he’s a man of determination and that he fully backs Rumsfeld. Well, if he hasn’t fired the guy SO FAR, how can he justify firing him now? Sure, Rumsfeld could quit AGAIN. But it seems rather absurd that after Rumsfeld offered his resignation multiple times (and Bush rejected it) that it would go through this time — unless Bush was willing to admit that the guy was a stinker. What I’m saying is: Bush seems damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Keep Rummy and you look like a horse’s ass. Fire him and the only thing you had going for you — your stalwart determination — is weakened.
April 14th, 2006 at 2:56 amSo, what else is new? Neo-Con Hell. For some reason we all allow them to run amok! When they all should actually be in jail. Permanently!
April 14th, 2006 at 3:00 amWell its looks like we’re going into Iran,according to parents of someone who has a Book coming out on Hamas.Setting around the Passover Table I learned probably more than I needed to know. We have a very dangerous group in my opinon running this country. I think our real enemies are setting on a Vast amount of Oil in the Middle East and they are buying America up like its penny candy.
This is off topic but is it as bush and co are in deep bedroom antics with this country.
Everything that is going is about the Control Of Oil and Natural Gas Properities and a small country gaining more country as its needing more room for its people who are moving over from America sooo everyone is in bed with everyone to control and own propery in the Middle East and we the Tax Payers are the Loan Company but the hitch is we don’t get repaid.
Neo Con rummyfeld is going nowhere he is staying put as he is part of the war planners to take over that region. The Generals aren’t being listen too in Washington .The news are covering them as they pump up the ratings. We have a very real problem in Washington and unless some very strong republicans and democrats really care about America we are about to turn a corner where we have never been before and will not be able to turn back from.We need to amass like the Latino Community has done to save America but I don’t think we have the teeth do so as we have become so overworked just trying to pay bills and feed our families.Damn it sounds like Fasicsm doesn’t it…. Keep the people working so they won’t have time to think about what is really going on ….
April 14th, 2006 at 7:19 amI have a new blogwhoring post up that should keep you occupied tomorrow until I can post something more substantial. The list ain’t long but it’s quantity over quality and I have some good links up of Digby, Prof. Juan Cole and others. Enjoy.
April 14th, 2006 at 7:55 am2. James. The war defenders are saying that these generals had the chance to voice their opinions and that they neglected their duty by remaining silent.
April 14th, 2006 at 8:02 amThe men that I have heard speak all say the same thing. They DID voice their opinions and they were IGNORED, THAT is why they are speaking out NOW. what a frustrating situation!!
This is both too little, too late, and rather cowardly to turn on him in public. If they have a problem, they should all speak to the presiden about it.
New York Bathrooms
April 14th, 2006 at 8:22 amAnd then we have the almighty response from the white house of cards -
“The president believes Secretary Rumsfeld is doing a very fine job during a challenging period in our nation’s history,” the White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters on Thursday.
April 14th, 2006 at 8:23 amOlbermann asked the very same question.
Has anyone else in our pampered big-time media asked the same thing?
April 14th, 2006 at 8:42 amThey had a clip of retired Major General John Riggs on NPR yesterday saying that Rummy goes beyond micro-management to “nano-management.”
This is part of the wider Republican culture of arrogance.
He said “they only need the military’s advice when it satisfies their agenda.” This goes for the wider Republican agenda and the truth - “they only need the truth when it satisfies their agenda,” and it does so rarely that they are getting farther and farther from reality.
April 14th, 2006 at 9:13 amWhy don’t these stupid generals get off their lazy, pension collecting asses and get over there to support the troops! We need patriotic soldiers and not these undermining wimps.
No wonder we’re losing the war on terror and the hearts and minds of the iraqis. We have a bunch of people giving out our secrets and showing that we are artificially weak to fight the long war.
April 14th, 2006 at 10:04 am#11 The President probably only “believes” that because he asked Rummy, “How’s it goin’ in Iraq?” and Rummy answered, “If you’re asking have I performed competently, I’d say I’m doing a very fine job.” So that would explain that answer.
#13 I agree with your thoughts completely. Not only the military advice, but the truth especially is only needed when it supports their agenda, and that really is getter rarer and rarer. At one time, an administration person bragged to a repoprter that they would create their own little reality. And while you were strudying that and trying to figure it out, they would create a new reality over here. And while you tried to figure that one out, they would start another one. And it appears that this is what they have tried to do from the beginning (before 9/11). They are conservatives, so to them, the truth is like sunlight to a vampire.
April 14th, 2006 at 10:13 am#14 This war is wrong, nothing can right it (not even the right). Being critical in NOT unpatriotic, it’s possible to support the troops by wanting them home and out of this stupid war. They are being sacrificed for profit!!!!
April 14th, 2006 at 10:15 am#14 You are depraved to speak of six generals who fought for you many times over. For the neos to go after anyone who speaks of this admin in any other fashion that asskissing is just wrong on many levels. I can’t understand if the few of you left are just that ignorant or somehow have some strange vested interest in Bush, etc.
So what is it? Can they do no wrong in your eyes? George Washington said it was unpatriotic NOT to question our president - while he was president. Do you understand that phrase? Do you not agree with Pres. Washington?
It is very sad to see any American say something so offensive. It was not long ago when we progressives were told that by neos that we don’t support our troops. I also remember hearing that we were winning the war and progressives only give bad news. Do you now feel that we are losing? And you believe it is because our career military is ineffective? You are basically insulting the troops, no? Or just all the leaders?
How do you think we can change this? What is your vision of winning and how should we do that? Fire more generals? You seem to think anyone that speaks out against Bush is a “wimp?” You are calling all of these men wimps? Is that correct? I want you to establish your position. Up or down vote.
April 14th, 2006 at 10:56 amThe Neo-Cons, under Cheneys Halliburton Plan [an 8 million dollar study] to ‘privatize’ as many DOD and Pentagon Functions as they can. These Generals all seem to be retired yet are they being paid as contractors? That is; are they Privatised Generals?
April 14th, 2006 at 11:21 amUncle, and those privatizations led to troops getting spoiled food from Haliburton. They are business and profit over troops. This will also be remembered in November.
Oh Sweet November!
April 14th, 2006 at 11:31 amIf these generals were indeed brave, they wouldn’t hide behind their retirement pension before mouthing off our President and his Secretary of Defense.
All of you who think this war is going wrong (it’s only been a few years, think “WWII” 1939-1945), should go down and join up. Go over to Iraq and show us how better to win this war.
April 14th, 2006 at 11:36 am#20 Here’s my advice. Just go down to the recruiting center, sign up, shut up and try to fight this war. After you see it, then you’ll know why these experienced military men with combat experience think that that these guys with no combat experience whatsoever should never have sent these brave men and women into a military nightmare.
Bush is not a God, although that’s what you think of him as. Rumsfeld probably never got even wounded by a mosquito in combat, even if he ever was in the front, which he never was. Both dodged Vietnam thanks to privileges from Daddy and his friends. Quit licking Bush’s ass.
April 14th, 2006 at 11:51 am#20Could you please elaborate on some of my questions? What is your opinion on Pres. Washington’s statement?
I have no knees so I can’t join. Now we can move on, right?
So you feel they should have spoken out when they were leading young men and women? Do you think that would have been a good idea to relay orders to the troops and at the same time tell those soldiers that he believes they are wrong? That is not how our military works. You need some education. My father was military — Army — a paratrooper. And your experience?
Do you think they would not have a retirement if they spoke out against this admin? They would still have their retirement for their LONG SERVICE TO YOU. That statement you made doesn’t make any sense. Please explain yourself more intelligently, please.
Do you think they should not get a pension because they disagree? You do know what kind of mentality you are exhibiting don’t you? In America, we pay our workers for work done, no? So if you do a shitty job at work, the boss can elect NOT to pay you?
Who, to you, is not a wimp? Besides Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Bush and your president, Rove.
Please answer, plus my other questions that you failed to answer earlier?
April 14th, 2006 at 11:54 amSadly, I doubt Rumsfeld’s going anywhere. The last thing the administration needs is bad press and losing Rumsfeld would be like knocking a leg off a tripod - Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld. The headlines would be worse (in their minds) than they are now.
We’re stuck with the secretary we have, not the secretary we wish we have…
–
April 14th, 2006 at 12:27 pmhttp://griperblade.blogspot.com - grumblings from the heartland
For the last few days, there’s been a great deal discussed about how retired Generals are voicing their disapproval of Rumsfeld. Of course it seems only natural that we all will have strong feelings against Rumsfeld considering that a lot more has happened as the result of the Iraq war. History does have a way of explaining well what we are involved in and maybe it’s time to expand our understanding of what all of this is REALLY trying to tell us.
It might be something of value to take a step back as many “other†things have happened, and take a NEW look at what this might be! Any one issue certainly can by itself be seriously overwhelming – so it’s important not to look real deep at this time. Try to combine many of the issues that involve corruption at the Federal level, at the State(s) level and at the local Government(s) level along with what’s surfacing in our Federal Government and Military levels….There’s more to add that’s elsewhere, but that might be too much to accept at this point, so leave that for another time when it will be more believable.
When I say Federal level, add up the known and perceived corruption resulting from Katrina, Payments and lost money from the Iraq war, Abramoff and all of his money links and others. Then add in all the Corporate Indictments, fines and consider separating them into Industries, that way you can keep better track and finally look at Technology, the Internet with how it’s become a Wild West for criminals who prey on us and our children. But wait, lets not forget about Voting and how the Voting Computers have alleged to have stolen our ability to have a honest election. I’m not blaming computers because it’s clear MicroSoft and others, are aggressively working at correcting holes in their operating systems. And within any complex concept that turns into a major development, then a huge industry, there are bound to be holes that need to be filled along the way.
But are they somehow connected? Do they all have a common denominator? Who benefits, if this is true?
Now look at the Iraq war and ask yourself…â€Was a big part of this about Corruptionâ€? Are questions targeting voting really about a Political party trying to steal elections? If so, then were did the money end up? Where did all the billions go? Maybe it’s time to accept that what we are seeing is really the result of something much larger…… Maybe it’s time to start asking bigger questions? Maybe we need to peel back a few layers of this onion and get nearer to the heart of what this is?
Behavior says everything. If a child acted this way, would you get argumentively lost in their daily incidents? Or would you start to realize that maybe there’s a bigger picture that needs to be addressed instead?
Think Progress has been doing a great job with bringing forth the reality of the current news. Maybe it’s time we take this to a new level? It’s out there and there’s a lot more sitting above the corruption level too.
April 14th, 2006 at 4:32 pmWhere are the specific concerns from the generals? I hear that some desired more troups and some do not like the style of Rumsfefld. If he is not listening, what did they propose he should listen to? One general promotes Rumsfield: ” …. throwing away 10 years worth of planning, plans that had taken into account what we would face in an occupation of Iraq…..” The general does not compliment the PLAN that caused a rapid and greatly redused rate of military casualities/losses. If a ten year old OCCUPATION plan was tossed away, what did the plan have that we are not doing for more success?
It scares me that these generals are not specific with criticism. Did they run their command in the same manner with their recent criticism? The American public wants accountability from the president, Rumsfield, and generals. OK, retired, small in number generals, where are the specifics? We are dealing with lives, security, and international stability. If their feelings were hert, that is NOT a priority in my world, in a dangerous world. If they have had better plans, aside for more on ground solders, lets hear it.
I understand that there are somewhere between 7,000 to 8,000 retired generals. Is this just another example where the news/politics takes off on a “hot topic” where I have yet to read SUBSTANCE. I reserve my frustration/anger as a citizen, tax payer, and supporter of national security when I DO NOT READ substance from retired generals.
For the supporters of the generals who have provided or will provide comments, WHERE IS THE SUBSTANCE. I demand government accountability for services, expenditures, war decisions, policies, etc. Lets see SOME ACCOUNTABLE SPECIFICS.
April 16th, 2006 at 3:41 pm