VIDEO: Oprah Tackles Minimum Wage Crisis
VIDEO: Oprah Tackles Minimum Wage Crisis
On Friday, Oprah Winfrey dedicated her national talk show to the issue of minimum wage, focusing on the plight of workers and families who face great difficulties merely subsisting on such low pay. The federal minimum wage has been locked in at $5.15/hour for the past nine years.
The show’s panel featured Morgan Spurlock, director of Super Size Me and the TV series 30 Days, Morgan’s fiancee Alex Jamieson, and Beth Shulman, the former vice president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.
Among the highlights of the show was this exchange between the panelists. Watch it:
WINFREY: It’s a real tragedy. I think you’re absolutely right. This is what people need to know. This is why New Orleans happened. This is why it happened, because you have people who were working — service people — minimum wage jobs. Working people who didn’t have the resources to go anywhere. That’s the point. That’s the point.
SHULMAN: Absolutely. And Katrina can be — is every city in the United States.
WINFREY: Yes, yes.
SHULMAN: Every city. And we can make different choices that ensure that the American dream is a reality for all these millions of Americans.
WINFREY: And so what should we be doing?
SHULMAN: First, we need to raise the minimum wage. As you said, Oprah, the minimum wage is at $5.15 an hour.
WINFREY: That’s so crazy.
SHULMAN: You can’t go to the store and buy a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk for that, let alone take care of your family.
This November, several states will get the chance to vote to raise their minimum wage, including Arizona, California, Montana, Nevada, and Ohio. More info at the Ballot Initiative Strategy Center.
UPDATE: More from the Notion.
A full transcript of the segment is below:
WINFREY: Beth Shulman is the former Vice President of the United Food and Commercial Workers union. She is the author of the book “The Betrayal of Work: How Low-Wage Jobs Fail 30 Million Americans.†We were just saying when you came to sit here it makes you cry. I was saying, yeah it makes me cry, but I think it should make us want to do something. We should stop crying about it and do something about it.
SHULMAN: Absolutely. The real tragedy — [applause]
WINFREY: It’s a real tragedy. I think you’re absolutely right. This is what people need to know. This is why New Orleans happened. This is why it happened, because you have people who were working — service people — minimum wage jobs. Working people who didn’t have the resources to go anywhere. That’s the point. That’s the point.
SHULMAN: Absolutely. And Katrina can be — is every city in the United States.
WINFREY: Yes, yes.
SHULMAN: Every city. And we can make different choices that ensure that the American dream is a reality for all these millions of Americans.
WINFREY: And so what should we be doing?
SHULMAN: First, we need to raise the minimum wage. As you said, Oprah, the minimum wage is at $5.15 an hour.
WINFREY: That’s so crazy.
SHULMAN: You can’t go to the store and buy a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk for that, let alone take care of your family. So we need to raise it. In states even here in Illinois, they have raised it above the federal level.
WINFREY: But this is amazing to me. I don’t know. Maybe y’all can speak to this, Morgan and Alex. You have 30 million people who are living on minimum wage. Why wouldn’t this be a priority? Why wouldn’t this be a priority in government if you’ve got 30 million potential voters who are living on minimum wage?
SHULMAN: Well, Americans really support a raise in the minimum wage, and there are campaigns across America in states like Michigan and Ohio and Arizona.
SPURLOCK: It’s the corporations that don’t support a raise in the minimum wage.
WINFREY: Yeah.
SHULMAN: But Americans do, and that’s who we should speak for is Americans. So everyone here can go out and support the minimum wage hike.
WINFREY: How?
SHULMAN: Write your congressman and senator and say it’s time to have a raise in the minimum wage.
WINFREY: But even if you raise the minimum wage, as was so — as we saw in Morgan’s piece, even if you raise the minimum wage and so you’re making $7 an hour, that still is not enough.
SHULMAN: Absolutely.
WINFREY: There seems to me to be a lack of — so the positions that you value the most as we’re saying for paramedics and teachers’ aides, people who are with your children, people who are in the hospital with your family, that there is no value placed on them. That seems to be askew.
SHULMAN: That is the disconnect because these are the jobs that are the most essential jobs to our lives, like teachers’ aides and emergency techs and nursing home workers and childcare workers. These are central to all of our lives. Yet they are the ones that can’t make it. One of the things we can do is ensure that every American has health insurance. We have seen in every one of these stories people not having health insurance and then ending up in huge debt.
WINFREY: In your case, you can’t have anything go wrong.
SHULMAN: Absolutely.
SPURLOCK: And the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States isn’t credit cards. It’s health care.
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Mega props, Oprah. (And I like that phrasing, ‘minimum wage crisis.’ Now THERE is a crisis, not that bunk social security stuff.)
April 15th, 2006 at 2:11 pm[Comment deleted by admin]
April 15th, 2006 at 2:14 pmI wonder how they propose to raise the minimum wage? You just can not blatantly raise it no more than you can raise taxes or loan rates without severe backwash. Heck, if min wage were to go up so would everything else. No?
April 15th, 2006 at 2:14 pm#3: “Heck, if min wage were to go up so would everything else. No?” – - Employers’ increased costs are ALWAYS passed on to the consumer eventually. Raising of the minimum wage, while necessary, will force small business owners to cut staff, cut hours or simply hire fewer people. The minimum wage should have been phased in over the last decade to at least $7.25/hr.
April 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pmthats a complete shit minimum wage in the uk its about £5.25 thats at least say $8 and it goes up everyyear a little
$5.15 thats about £3.70 Pathetic
April 15th, 2006 at 2:25 pmmakes communisum seem a good idea that pathetic minimum wage and that exxon idiot that polluted sctoland get 400 million retirement wage
Communism seems like a fair option or a liberal senate
here we go with the goddam *** jokes ( cloned sheep style)
April 15th, 2006 at 2:28 pmYou could have put up a clip from every show this week. She had fantastic shows covering the collapse of our education system and well as the collapse of our middle class. She has an on going series on Fridays called the Debt Diet which explores the mountain of dept so many Successful families suffer from. She has also kept returning to New Orleans, she keeps showing the world that we’re a country in serious need. I applaud Oprah for showing so many the utter hypocrisy of this Christian administration — no leadership, and the only thing they’re doing for the sick and poor is to increase their numbers. In a way, they pretty much do the opposite of what the Bible teaches.
April 15th, 2006 at 2:35 pmThe polls in Arizona show vast and wide support for a state hike in the minimum wage. Even the very conservative members of our population in the Grand Canyon State admit that you can’t survive on $5.15 per hour.
If it does make the ballot, the polls show it passing 75/25.
Great news!
April 15th, 2006 at 2:51 pmYou cannot live on twice what the minimum wage is when you consider how high transportation costs have gone; nevermind the cost of heathcare which most people in that income bracket can’t afford
April 15th, 2006 at 3:01 pmThe argument that if you raise the minimum wage, then all prices go up and people get fired. But on the segment Oprah had there were some minimum wage workers who had been evicted a few times because they couldn’t pay the rent, and spurlock and girlfriend were at a grocery store and had to put back to some items because they couldn’t afford to pay for them. If people at the bottom of the economic scale can afford to buy things then the grocery store benefits and the landlord benefits. Instead of getting screwed on a few months rent and paying to have someone evicted, the landlord actually gets paid. And of course, we need universal health care. Spurlock basically lost around $1200 while he was working two FULL TIme jobs (thats a 16 hour workday) and his girlfriend had at least one full time job. But he had to go to the emergency room because he hurt his wrist, and she had to go for an infection. Boom. you’re done.
April 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pmOn the NYTimes web site, there is a story about Exxon’s CEO. He makes $18,000 per hour for his tough 8 hour day.
We’ve been a ‘let ‘em eat cake’ country for some time.
April 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pmBut, if CEO’s continue to make $3 million dollars a year, this is EXACTLY where that money is coming from. From the pockets of the working class. Why don’t the rich understand that when you take more than you need from teh system, you are taking it away from some one else.
And for those who really don’t get it, go to http://www.congress.org and read the heartrending letters people are writing to George Bush about how they are having to decide between filling their gas tanks on nearly $3 a gallon gasoline, or buying enough food for their families. People are starting to go hungry for real now. Here in America. Not in some out-of-sight, out-of-mind developing country. Here. Those in positions of authority are letting it happen. And at $165,000 salaries, they are just as much of the problem.
People want to talk about sin. Well, here it is, Real sin is taking more than your share in this world so that other people go without. Perhaps we should let people go back to playing Robin Hood to let these greedy, greedy gluttons know why the tax system and a living wage are more polite, and that they should participate.
This sickens me. Capitalism does not work. Trickle Down is a disproven Theory. Let’s try something else before the entire country goes bankrupt.
April 15th, 2006 at 3:15 pmIf Oprah takes it on, you know something will get done, at least that what it seems. Although she certainly isn’t helping with the crisis, with her deals with big businesses, like Wal-Mart etc.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
Rummy Torture: Right Now on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
April 15th, 2006 at 3:52 pmThe most comprhensive database of news, and analysis on workers rights, affordable housing, and low wages:
Go the Economic Justice page on SSA
I am proud that my state of Washington leads the nation in minimum wage, which is $7.63.
April 15th, 2006 at 4:02 pmI saw that 30 Days episode. It was so raw and right on to the point. Morgan and Alex took on that issue just as it was done with ‘Super Size Me.” My first job out of college was an office job, but it was on minimum wage. The boss was an asshole
and voted for Bush Sr. in 1992. He was a complete asshole, was computer illiterate, a married womanizer and treated me and other employees like crap. He even made me do the trash every day. Being the only black person working there, he thought it was appropriate.
I would have quit, but I needed the money. A year later, he fired me for not being productive enough, which was bullshit. I was still on minimum wage. Nowadays when I see him, I don’t even acknowledge his prescence.
April 15th, 2006 at 4:41 pmInstead of listening to Oprah, I just went to the data.
2004 Minimum Wage Stats
Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of all hourly-paid workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth were age 16-19
About 2 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less
April 15th, 2006 at 4:48 pmNo.
That is a lie perpetuated by corporations to scare people like you.
April 15th, 2006 at 4:58 pmSo there will be a tax cut for the rich and a wage increase for the not so rich. Where is this money coming from?
April 15th, 2006 at 4:58 pmeliminate the tax cut for the rich,should do nicely.
April 15th, 2006 at 5:03 pmConsidering the fact that you have CEOs making $190k a fvcking day and their workers making $160 a day at $20 an hour. It can come out of their pocket.
We just discussed this yesterday.
In 2005, Exxon CEO Raked in 190K a Day
April 15th, 2006 at 5:10 pm>Employers’ increased costs are ALWAYS passed on to the consumer eventually. Raising of the minimum wage, while necessary, will force small business owners to cut staff, cut hours or simply hire fewer people. The minimum wage should have been phased in over the last decade to at least $7.25/hr.
This is always the excuse that corporate types use for not raising the minimum wage…they used it the last time the minimum wage was raised.
But think about it, how many people have gone out of business because they had to pay their employees a living wage? And who benefits from people making a living wage?
Pretty much everybody.
April 15th, 2006 at 5:14 pmJust about everybody agrees that the minimum wage needs to be raised. When the raise comes, does anybody really think that these career politicians with myopic vision will give it an honest adjustment upward? The way business is done in D.C. anymore, it would be mythical to think that when the raise came, that it would do much good. B.T.W. althewhile the low wage earners languished in substandard paychecks, the politicians saw fit to ingratiate themselves every year for the past 9 years. What do ya wanna do about it…vote? Hah!
April 15th, 2006 at 5:17 pmA corporation will always wail and lament when costs go up. They will always haggle for the best deal. No more ateention or credence should be paid to their protestations than the merchant in the suq who protests that you’re forcing his seven children out into the streets with such an offer.
April 15th, 2006 at 5:20 pmYou guys need Opra to tell you there’s a problem
oh man, you americans are really rich, i mean good god people WAKE UP!!!!!
April 15th, 2006 at 6:11 pmYes, there is such a thing as wage-driven inflation. If you raise the minimum wage, prices will go up.
But here’s the thing that people forget: If wages go up faster than prices — say, if your monthly expenses go up $150, but your monthly wages go up $250 — then there’s nothing to worry about! Don’t be spooked by the word “inflation.” I’ve played the follow-the-money game with this, and as far as I can tell (not being a trained economist, I admit), wage-driven inflation does not cause prices to go up faster than wages; just the opposite. Ordinary wage earners will benefit.
Anyway, the fact is, we have an inflation problem in this country already; it’s simply hidden. Any idiot can see that the price of nearly everything is going up. The official inflation rate is negligible, but it’s kept artificially low by consumer products imported from sweatshop countries such as China. The prices of U.S. agricultural products are going up. The prices of domestically provided services — including health care, education, and government services — are going up. The price of energy is going up, and with it, the price of transportation. The dollar is weakening; it buys less and less. This is possible because there is only so much wealth in this country to go around, and the super-rich are hoarding a steeply growing portion of it. “Raising the minimum wage” is another way of saying “forcing them to share.”
April 15th, 2006 at 6:16 pmi love oprah, it’s about time people who make a boatload, go to bat for those of us who don’t.
Oprah for Senate!!
April 15th, 2006 at 6:18 pmCorporations are a HUGE threat to the people. They control the energy. They are getting ready to control the internet. They have made laws that kill the environment thanks to Bush. Ask yourself if you really need that cell phone. Ask yourself if you really need cable t.v. We need to stop feeding the machine.
April 15th, 2006 at 6:31 pm7.36 an hour? I dont know about you guys but I can not AFFORD to work for that.
April 15th, 2006 at 6:34 pmThe Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT), which is in effect, a seperate income tax, has got to be scaled back by indexing, or done away with.
You wont see either happening as long as the government is completely controlled by the pukes.
The reason? This tax system which hits the people making 60K plus is just what Bushco wants in place. He can keep giving more and bigger tax cuts to the rich because the income to the government from the AMT helps hide the shortfall from those tax cuts.
April 15th, 2006 at 6:40 pmOily Oligarchs and the Neo-Confederacy are ruining this nation. They long for the good old plantation days.
-GSD
April 15th, 2006 at 6:58 pmThe minimum wage doesn’t even matter. Raise it. Lower it. Eliminate it. Won’t make a difference.
April 15th, 2006 at 7:04 pmI own a small landscaping business. I could pay minimum wage, but I want productive, happy workers, so I start them at $10/hr. On some jobs, my employees make almost as much as I do, but it’s important to me that they show up every day. It’s important that they can go out and see a movie or go out to dinner. The type of customer that pays for landscaping has extra money, and so they can easily absorb a slight increase in the cost of the job. But sometimes it rubs the rich folks the wrong way when they can no longer get their grass cut for $25/hr — now it costs $35/hr. Oh well, buy your own lawn equipment you cheap bastards.
The cost of goods and services have increased every year in the past 9 years, and there has been no increase in minimum wage. Keeping minimum wage at $5.15 while everything else is on the rise is a crime.
April 15th, 2006 at 7:30 pmYou can find out more about the state initiative campaigns to raise the minimum wage at a new site, BoostTheMinimumWage.org. This is a project of the Ballot Initiative Strattegy Center, which is mentioned in this post.
April 15th, 2006 at 7:34 pmIt isn’t just businesses that pay minimum wage. There is a job training program for Senior citizens under the United States Dept. of Labor that pays minimum wage. Now this sounds good, but it has a few flaws. To begin with we get placed in non-profit places for the training and in SD most of these places are one-person offices and they don’t have a lot of time for training. What the program planners want is for these organizations to hire us off the program, now this doesn’t make sense for 2 reasons, #1 they can’t afford to hire anybody and #2 if they hire the trainee they won’t need another trainee from the program. Realistically most of these senior citizens won’t be hired by other businesses because of the health and physical problems that we have. Also the business won’t pay enough for it to be worth working because our food stamps will be decreased and our housing assistance will be cut.
It stands to reason that if minimum wage is increased, people will have more money to spend, therefore businesses will be busier and have to hire more people. It isn’t right that the CEOs, and other big shots make so much and their employees don’t make enough to live off.
In this years legislature, SD’s honorable? governor tried to raise the minimum wage to $6.00 an hour. This got voted down, but if Gov. Rounds had really wanted it I’m sure he could have accomplished it because he is Republican and most of the legislators are too. The main thing on their mind was something like a half a dozen different ant-abortion bills. I feel the only reason Gov. Rounds wanted to raise the minimum wage this year is because he is up for re-election.
April 15th, 2006 at 7:36 pm7.36 an hour? I dont know about you guys but I can not AFFORD to work for that.
Comment by Uncle Togarma — April 15, 2006 @ 6:34 pm
I know, neither could I. Fortunately I live in a state where the mw is 7.63. Not great, but a hell of a lot better than $5.15!
April 15th, 2006 at 7:43 pmThe crux of the matter is that we are in a global economy. Corporations are free to out-source jobs to where ever the labor pool is cheap.
The biggest failing of organized labor was in allowing Corporations to set up manufacturing plants in other countries without having to pay United States prevailing wages.
April 15th, 2006 at 8:01 pmVaughn, I hire gardners and housekeepers (I’m partially disabled and prefer to use my limited energy for other things). And I try to look for guys like you — the ones who are treating their people right, giving them dignity and a leg up in life.
Even if I have to pay a bit more, it’s worth it. Mostly, small service business that treat their people well deliver significantly better service — good enough to justify the extra $$. They are more reliable, more professional, and are often more able and willing to do something custom (get me a special fertilizer, clean out a closet) than businesses that hire whoever they can get at minimum wage. I get clean, smart, trustworthy people who I feel safer having around my property. And guys who are bright enough to have ethics like yours are simply easier to do business with.
It’s an economic and social truth that everybody does better when everybody does better. Having 2% of our workers over 25 at the minimum wage means that we have MILLIONS of people who can’t even afford to pay rent. As Katrina proved, their poverty makes them a public safety hazard, a health hazard, and a crime hazard to ALL of us — not to mention the fact that their misery is a shame unto us all.
Anybody’s who’s not willing to pay a little more for their stuff in order to ensure these people can live decent lives doesn’t even have sufficient common sense to locate his or her own best interest — and doesn’t deserve our time and attention.
April 15th, 2006 at 8:15 pmJust so it’s clear what the magnitude of the problem may be,the BLS release using 2004 data show that of those earning an hourly wage,520,000 were paid $5.15 and another 1.5 million earned wages below the minimum. These workers made up 2.7% of all hourly-paid workers.
April 15th, 2006 at 8:20 pmHalf of the earners were under 25 and 1/4th were 16-19.About 2% of workers aged 25and over earned minimum wage or less.
Since 1979 when the BLS began to collect the data,the %age earning at or below the minimum wage has trended down. For example in 1980.15.1% of hourly workers were at or below the minimum vs.2.7% in 2004.
Maybe the rate should be raised,maybe not;some economists see it one way,some another. Since it comes down to modeling,the outcome will depend on the assumptions made. The minimum wage is less the problem than wage rates in general.
If the assumption is that by raising the minimum,it will essentially raise all wages,I haven’t found any study that points to that as an outcome.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004tbls.htm#10
Maybe the rate should be raised,maybe not;some economists see it one way,some another. Since it comes down to modeling,the outcome will depend on the assumptions made. The minimum wage is less the problem than wage rates in general.
If the assumption is that by raising the minimum,it will essentially raise all wages,I haven’t found any study that points to that as an outcome.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2004tbls.htm#10
Comment by TJM — April 15, 2006 @ 8:20 pm
Good Post TJM. Perhaps the Economists should try working for 5.15 an hour and then you might see some change, till then economists seem, to me, to look at humans simply as numbers on a spreadsheet.
April 15th, 2006 at 8:49 pmPerhaps one of these Economists will ‘Show” the people how to make Poverty Wage into Food or Medicine, some of that economical magic? Or How about ‘Alchemical Economic Theory’ or some such Bullcrap study to Validate Poverty?
Economists to me seem to be mostly opinionists when it comes to legalized Poverty Level wages. It is Just Supposed to ‘WORK’ Out Somehow..But Don’t ask How.
Smoke and Mirrors. Like Like Delay and the Marianas Poverty Wage Lobbying.
“And I try to look for guys like you — the ones who are treating their people right, giving them dignity and a leg up in life.”
Gone At Last: Thanks for the kind comments. When you treat employees with dignity by paying them a good wage, they show up to work on time, and they don’t quit until the job is finished. They care about their jobs, so they put effort into making every job right. They show up to work clean, and properly dressed. These things all make a world of difference when it comes to bringing in new business because the word of mouth references are what keep you alive in this business (any business really). Have a look at my website, and you will see the types of jobs I do.
Paying people a good wage will make a business more money — it’s a fact.
April 15th, 2006 at 9:10 pmRE: #35 & #44
You are a good man, Vaughn D. Taylor.
Best wishes to you, your crew and your business.
April 15th, 2006 at 9:31 pmThis is semi-related and I want to aplogize if I have some of my facts confused. As I understand it, several years ago the US Congress voted themselves annual cost-of-living pay increases. (Is this correct? If not, please correct me.) If this is correct, then this annual raise would clearly violate the 27th Amendment. Does anyone, including the fine folks at ThinkProgress, know how one goes about challenging the constitutionality of a law such as this? Could be worth it just to show the bastards who’s in charge. Anyway, my main point was that if they could generously vote themselves an annual pay raise, what’s their excuse for not allowing an annual raise to the minimum wage? After all, this country can function a hell of a lot better without the overpaid bastards in Washington than it can without the hard-working people struggling to get by on minimum wage.
April 15th, 2006 at 9:33 pmOn this Saturday before Easter, one resurrection that looks increasingly unlikely is that of Katherine Harris. In a new poll from Ramsussen, the Florida Congresswoman and doyenne of electoral deceit finds herself trailing incumbent Democrat Bill Nelson by a staggering 30% in their Senate race.
For the details, see:
April 15th, 2006 at 9:38 pm“Katherine Harris Down 30%”
How do you get the minimum wage raised?
By putting a minimum wage initiative on the ballot….
Jeeeez did the person who asked that question even bother reading the whole page?
April 15th, 2006 at 9:44 pmThere are also groups in Missouri collecting signatures for a initiative, probably for the fall primary ballot. Voters here in Missouri have expressed in a recent poll that they would favor a raise in the minimum wage from 5.15 to 6.50 by about 3 to 2. This was a red state in 2000 and 2004, but I think minimum wage is an issue that really crosses party lines more than other. Especially with the all-important voer bloc that is concerned with “moral issues”.
April 15th, 2006 at 10:02 pmI have seen that people do not want to call companies and tell them why they boycott companies and ask for a progressive agenda, so then just avoid buying from these companies and spread the word. I will tell the Speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader and the CEOs of these companies listed below that their profits will silently lessen until an agenda listed on http://www.boycott-republicans.com gets acceded to by the Republican Party in a press conference and then passed by congress and signed by the pResident. So just do this and I will do the rest of the work for you. You have no petitions to sign, no phone calls to make, just stop buying products from these Republican contributors and to tell others as well to stop. Thank you.
Walmart, Wendy’s, Outback Steak House, Dominos Pizza, Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Eckerd, CVS and Walgreens, Curves for women health clubs, General Electric and Exxon/Mobil.
I have seen that people do not want to call companies and tell them why they boycott companies and ask for a progressive agenda, so then just avoid buying from these companies and spread the word. I will tell the Speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader and the CEOs of these companies listed below that their profits will silently lessen until an agenda listed on http://www.boycott-republicans.com gets acceded to by the Republican Party in a press conference and then passed by congress and signed by the pResident. So just do this and I will do the rest of the work for you. You have no petitions to sign, no phone calls to make, just stop buying products from these Republican contributors and to tell others as well to stop. Thank you.
Walmart, Wendy’s, Outback Steak House, Dominos Pizza, Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Eckerd, CVS and Walgreens, Curves for women health clubs, General Electric and Exxon/Mobil.
April 15th, 2006 at 10:12 pm#26 Christ ct, shut up. If you want to educate people go to redstate or freerepublic. We are the good guys.
April 15th, 2006 at 10:40 pmWe have the National Minimum Wage over here in the UK for the last few years. The employers bitch and moan (there’s a surprise), but every October there is a rise in the minimum wage level.
The main rate for workers aged 22 and over is currently set at £5.05 an hour ($8.85 p/h). On 1 October 2006 this will increase to £5.35 ($9.37 p/h).
The development rate for 18-21 year olds is currently set at £4.25 an hour ($7.45 p/h). This will increase to £4.45 ($7.80 p/h).
The development rate for 16-17 years olds. This rate is £3.00 an hour ($5.25 p/h). And this will increase £3.30 an hour ($5.78 p/h).
The British government sets the rate, and all employers have to vehemently stick it to. There have been a number of prosecutions, made against companies who have flouted the laws.
Tony Blair and his Labour government brought in the National Minimum wage (Tony was doing really well before he met George W. Bush). And although companies were adamant that there would be a doomsday scenario that many companies would go to the wall, if they had to pay their employees anything that resembled a decent living wage. This has not come to fruition, and there seems to be an acceptance that paying your employees a semi-decent wage is the right thing to do.
There are drawbacks to the minimum wage though. You will probably find that the hospitality sector employs people under the age of 22, so they don’t have to pay the upper minimum wage limit. And if you live in a town or city that is experiencing high levels of unemployment. Most jobs that are advertised will state that they pay the minimum wage (like they have any other choice).
When a business or company is struggling to attract new employees, because there are plenty of jobs going in the area, and there’s low unemployment. Then stating that the minimum wage will be paid may not attract the right calibre of person that the business needs.
Illegal aliens anybody; we have the same problem in the UK, we call it the black economy. This has nothing to do with the colour of a persons skin, but with the fact that they don’t pay taxes and national insurance, because they’re not registered for work, or don’t have work permits to work in the UK. This is when you get into the realms of gang masters and illegal entry into the country, usually in the back of a lorry, and pay thousands for the privilege to some crime syndicate back in their homelands.
April 15th, 2006 at 10:48 pmMy thougts are, congress, senators, and presidents, should get paid the minimum wage. They are in public service to help us, and do are bidding aren’t they?
April 15th, 2006 at 11:22 pmLet’s try something else before the entire country goes bankrupt.
Let’s try what France is doing. Burning cars and rioting because one wishes to be lazy and get paid for it sounds like a lot of fun…
April 15th, 2006 at 11:26 pmLet’s try what France is doing. Burning cars and rioting because one wishes to be lazy and get paid for it sounds like a lot of fun…
Comment by warhawk
That has to be the stupidest thing I have heard all week.
Did you not watch Oprah? These people ARE WORKING! 2, 3 jobs sometimes.
And it’s NOT ENOUGH!
Spoken like a true, silver-spoon fed, never had to worry about a thing, REPUBLICAN “think-you-know-it-all-but-in-fact-you-know-diddly—–
person who should be giving back and not bitching.
(I think Jesus himself had quite a bit to say about you greedy M-Fers…)
April 15th, 2006 at 11:33 pmthat exxon idiot that polluted sctoland…
I’ll tell you what really pollutes Scotland–you wankers to the south…
April 15th, 2006 at 11:36 pmMy idea would be to raise the minum wage to something liveable, and maybe have exclusions for workers who are in their teens and still in high school… afterall that’s what the conservatives are always lying about, saying most minimum wage jobs are high school kids and that if you raise it, its money they don’t need, and hurts small business…
Well than allow high school students who choose to work to be paid 7 bucks or something, and adults over 18 who are not students get like 9 or 10 as their minimum wage…
Any thoughts?
April 15th, 2006 at 11:36 pmthat exxon idiot that polluted sctoland…
I’ll tell you what really pollutes Scotland–you wankers to the south…
Comment by warhawk
————————————————————————————————-
Been watching Braveheart again?
Mel Gibson has alot to answer for. Look what they did to us six-hundred years ago. It must be true, they made it into a film.
April 15th, 2006 at 11:49 pmSince Congress has not passed a minimum wage increase in ten years, many states have decided “enough is enough.” There are many efforts in 2006 to put measures on the ballot that would help hard-working Americans earn more per hour than $5.15. You can find out about these campaigns at BoostTheMinimumWage.org. Thanks, and keep up the fight!
April 15th, 2006 at 11:49 pmFlorida established a one dollar higher minimum wage last year.I have yet to hear how it adversly affected affected anyone or any thing.One need only read newspaper archives to see the woeful, dooms day predictions made by the hired guns of worldcorp.The minimum wage,health care, labor law,the unwillingness to enforce established law,when it would affect business, in any way it does not wish to be affected,are only symptoms of underlying grave illness called corporate influence.If we do not soon limit our election of government to the contributions of one person- private,taxable money,limiting other entities to contributing to general election funds,federal, state,district and local,we will be answering to a corporate world government which will have no reguard for any person.I also believe we should have a limit of one hundred dollars which could be written off as a one for one reduction off taxable income.any money spent above that would be a non writeoff.The organizational entities should be entitled to generous write offs for contributing to general election funds.It is in the interest of the rich, to constantly be at war outside the US,To warp our foreign policy,.so that most of the world hates us;because we are becoming a battering a battering ram for worldcorp.Unrestrained capitalism is diabolicaly opposed to freedom.The is no representative democracy where government is sold to the highest bidder.Delbert W. Allegood. npublici
April 16th, 2006 at 12:00 amI did not type the double worded sentences in the previous comment. I wonder if it was possible for kathryn Harris to roll her daddys 10 million out of a trust wholly OR a little at a time to her campaign fund without ever paying taxes on it.
April 16th, 2006 at 12:09 am#61 The minimum wage,health care, labor law,the unwillingness to enforce established law,when it would affect business, in any way it does not wish to be affected,are only symptoms of underlying grave illness called corporate influence.
Actually it’s called “fiscal conservatism”, and Republicans have been duping voters for years by using the term to describe themselves. People think it means that the guy will be careful with how he votes to spend your money. But it’s nothing of the sort. It’s a philosophy that favors as much deregulation of businesses and reductions of their taxes as possible, all in the name of increasing profits as much as inhumanely possible. It’s symptomatic of a sick disease to be in favor of such a philosophy.
April 16th, 2006 at 12:10 amSince the national minimum wage has NOT been raised for almost 8 years > it must be raised to about $7.50 an hour at the least now! It should have gone up yearly, but the Republicans in DC wanted tax cuts for the wealthy instead! If the Congress does NOT do this, then every one of them should have their pay and benefits reduced! It is an outrage because $5.15 an hour is almost slave labor! Hmm I wonder why Corporate CEOs want the Mexican border wide open? Illegals are so desperate for work that $5.15 or less sounds good to them!
April 16th, 2006 at 12:11 amHappy Easter Sunday to everyone who posted on this thread! Hopefully we all survive the Bush Regime to celebrate another Easter next year?! PEACE NOT WAR!
April 16th, 2006 at 12:36 amIf you institute a two-tier wage system that allows people under 18 to be paid less, it will exactly 0.6 seconds before thousands of small businesses make plans to fire their adult employees and hire up on teenagers — who will, of course, be summarily fired on their 18th birthdays. It’s a business model that could be very workable in certain industries — I’m thinking low-end restaurants as one real possibility.
The long-term result is that we’ll end up with more adults out of work, and more kids out of school doing those jobs instead. I don’t think either outcome is what we’re looking for here.
A laborer is worthy of his hire. I think somebody famous said this once . If the job is worth paying for, the age of the person doing it shouldn’t matter.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:03 amI’m sorry but Oprah has a lot of damned nerve talking about minimum wage. She just bought a house a few miles from us for FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS and has put about THIRTY MILLION into it so far.
Seems to me if she was so damned concerned about minimum wage she would be out there CREATING well paying jobs instead of 40 million dollar private jets, 24 million dollar apartments and 80 million dollar homes in Santa Barbara.
Remember when she “gave” all those free cars to her audience? Do you know most of the people couldn’t afford the “free” cars because that cheapskate Oprah wouldn’t pick up the thousands in taxes and registration that was required since that wasn’t part of the “free” cars. So about a fifth of the cars were actually picked up.
She might talk the talk but she sure as hell doesn’t walk the walk. She’s a fake. Completely and totally.
BUT otherwise the minimum should be tied to the COA every year, but then again that would mean our congress quit bending over and grabbing their ankles everytime Corporate America wanted them to keep the people as poor as possible.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:53 amAt 53, I don’t pay much attention to minimum wage discussions, but when something catches my eye I’m always dumbfounded. In 1969 I was a 15 year old high school student in Long Beach, CA – I worked at an early Discount Department Store were I was paid $3.79 an hour. I got time and a half on Sundays and triple time on holidays. Some I’ve my friends did even better working construction sites in the summer $10-$15 per hour… gas was 23 cents a gallon , a six pack $1.20 and a room at motel 6 was… you guessed it six bucks… it pains me to read these posts…
April 16th, 2006 at 2:54 amSurely there’s data that tracks the value of my 3.79 n ‘69 to the value of a workers $5.15 today … I imagine it would be dramatic and to me unconscionable. I can only think that investor demands for ever increasing profit margins and our acquiescence to their gluttony that’s driving this shameful train. It’s just wrong. Kelly Scott TX
Okay, I’ll start off this defense of Oprah by saying I don’t like her, I don’t like the fact that she introduced Dr Phil (Barney for adults) to the airwaves, and I seriously have doubts about her bubblegum philosophy taste in movies and books.
That said.
Okay, so she spent 80 million on a house. Sounds to me like she is putting a certain amount of money back into the economy right there, by 1st: Funding the real estate business, and 2nd: Funding the construction business. By spending that money she is giving people jobs in both sectors.
Here again, she is creating jobs.
A problem with your tax code to be sure, but you can’t call someone who just gave somebody else a car a cheapskate simply because they didn’t pay the taxes and registration, the car is kind of a big chunk of the expense in owning a car. Oh, and while we are on the subject, here again, by spending money she created jobs in the automotive industry.
Maybe she is a fake, but not by the evidence you put forward.
April 16th, 2006 at 6:06 amYay for Oprah!
Right on.
April 16th, 2006 at 6:36 amIt’s something I didn’t understand during my misspent, right-wing youth and that righties still don’t seem to get – most of us to the left of McCain do not despise the legitimately (didn’t cheat or steal) wealthy their wealth, provided they pay their taxes and try to do some good with a bit of their excess. It’s alright for them to enjoy their money. I’m securely in the top 20% of American wage earners at the age of 26, and I sure enjoy my after-tax, after-retirement-savings money. Both me and Oprah enjoying our money strengthens the economy – that is, provides jobs.
I’m not a big fan of Oprah’s show (then again, I don’t really enjoy much TV, in general), but I think she means well and might well be helping, as she’s popularized getting out of debt and thinking about working people struggling on less than I feel like I (or pretty much anyone else paying for an Internet connection) could afford to accept to live apart from my parents.
April 16th, 2006 at 7:16 amDrink the kool-aid, Ryan. And the rest of you Deaniacs. Nobody pays minimum wage anymore, and nobody is trying to raise a family on minimum wage.
And fuck the French working class–all those lazy bastards do is drinK, smoke, whine, and eat cheese. Oh yeah, and surrender.
No Braveheart for me–I lived in England for eight years, and a five pounds, twenty-five pence minimum ain’t shit today. I know, you have “free” health care, and council housing, but sorry, chaps, you can’t live on five quid an hour.
BTW, I’m going back to England in less than a year. I happen to love it over there, and most of the English people I’ve met are really good folks. Of course, they don’t subscribe to the socialist views that manyu in their country, and all of old Europe, subscribe to.
Later, you bunch of whalleys and prats…
April 16th, 2006 at 8:43 amAnd Republicans rant against those who go on welfare — especially those who live in large (and more expensive) urban areas like New York?? Where’s the mystery in it if you can earn more by going on the public dole than you can by actually working? I mean, hello? It’s just common sense — it’s not reasonable to expect people who are worried about their very survival to go against their own interest. Republicans have never understood that there’s much more to it than simply exhorting people to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, telling them they can get by without going on welfare — until you can find a way to convince them of it and help them find a way to do it, it’s wasted breath. One of the problems is that many of them don’t believe it, and with some reason — in fact, I think an argument could probably be made that many people living on welfare or minimum-wage jobs may be suffering from at least mild depression which in itself can create problems with motivation and performance.
At one time, I was working with children at a public school in a troubled inner-city neighborhood — one problem for a lot of children there is generational welfare where the children of drop-outs become drop-outs and go on public assistance because they can’t find a job. When a child’s own parents didn’t finish school, when he has few role models in his environment for what might be called “the American Dream”, when some of the richest people in his neighborhood are gangsters, when he realizes that a lot of people in the larger society are harshly judgmental towards people in his environment…that child is essentially starting life with at least one strike against him. The problem is further compounded by the fact that academic success is positively correlated with professional success in later life. It’s simply not sensible to expect that the majority of children who come from this sort of environment will do quite as well as the majority of children who were fortunate enough to be raised in better circumstances, any more than one would expect a neglected rosebush growing on a vacant lot to produce the same quality of blooms as one carefully tended in a hothouse…and this follows people into later life.
April 16th, 2006 at 9:34 amWarhawk
If nobody pays minimum wage anyway, why bitch about the minimum wage being increased?
April 16th, 2006 at 9:49 amGood your leaving Warhawk, and were gonna miss you to…….Sarcasm off…..
April 16th, 2006 at 9:53 amI guess Warhawk does not notice that Britain like the rest of Europe has good labor laws and universal health care for everyone > but on the other hand he says he is going back to Britain soon, likes it there, so maybe he does notice the labor system is better? Socialism that he redicules created the Britain he so likes to live in!
As for nobody in the US being paid minimum wage, according to Warhawk, I wonder what he is smoking or drinking? Millions of American workers are stuck at the bottom and many families are at that level! Two working parents at minumum wage, pooling their income would amount to twice $10,712 so $21,424 total for both according to Oprah’s figures! Imagine living on that with 2 to 4 kids?
If the minimum wage had gone up 25 cents an hour, per year, since 1998, then it would be $7.15 an hour now! The Congress by not allowing that to happen have created the wage problems we discuss today, just like their ignoring the Mexican border to be wide open, allowing about 8 million illegals into the US since 1998, so one million a year! This influx of desperate cheap labor, who will willingly work for $5.15 an hour, or less, has kept min. wage from rising! The border has to be regulated to prevent further influx of laborers!
My idea/plan: The Congress must raise the minimum wage to $7.50 an hour, by November 1st, 2006, or every one up for election must be booted out on election day! Also their Congressional pay slashed from $170,000+ a year to $100,000 a year so they can understand what it means to suffer a little financially! The minimum wage after being raised to $7.50 an hour would increase 25 cents a year thereafter, so by 2010 it would be $8.50!
April 16th, 2006 at 11:07 amTo say as a nation that pay cannot at least increase 25 cents a year is an outrage!
Just so you know Senate and House wages have gone up every year since 1998, so they are all vile hypocrites! 25 cents a hour, per year, raise for those on the bottom is not much to ask for! Shame on President Bush and the entire Congress!
April 16th, 2006 at 11:17 amAs long as there are Mexicans willing to work for peanuts our wage problems will never be resolved.
Deport the illegal Mexicans who take our jobs and use up our resources and then and only then can America get back on track.
Of course, as our stupid govt. debates the issue, a million more illegal Mexicans enter and destroy our economy.
Boy, if Mexicans were terrorists, we’d all be dead by now.
April 16th, 2006 at 12:47 pm[...] Oprah for Congress, I’d listen to her [...]
April 16th, 2006 at 1:15 pmwarhawk may have lived in England, but knows shite about the English.
Warhawk must only play with the prats of England, because only the dying breed of Thatcherite tories would agree with his take on anything.
Run back to England, you America hater! Runaway as your Republicunt princes of darkness drive the US into the loo!
April 16th, 2006 at 1:42 pmI think my only argument about raising the minimum wage is it effects the small business owner more than a large corporation. I’d like to see it increased gradually instead of the typical wait 10 years and raise it 2.00 way they currently do it. Maybe a plan for .25 every 6 months until it gets to 7.00 or whatever they decide it should be.
For instance, Suppose I own a small flower shop. I hire local high school kids, stay at home moms who want a little cash, perhaps a retired person who wants to get out of the house. I start them at minimum wage. A month goes by and they don’t show up late, call in etc, I give them a 50 cent raise. 3 months go by another 25cents. Around a year they are making 6.50 to 7.50 depending on turn over etc. If they slam a new wage of 7.00 off the bat, that means the employee I hire tomorrow is making the same amount as someone who was there for a year and worked up. In a perfect world I would give the person there a 2.00 raise as well but that isn’t realistic based on business running costs. If I had to gradually increase my prices it wouldn’t have a large effect on my customers plus I could pass it on and keep my “senior” employees above the new hires.
Just my 2 cents
April 16th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#70 Bruce, your post was right on.
warhawk, you’re an idiot.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:11 pmBTW, I’m going back to England in less than a year. I happen to love it over there,
Comment by warhawk — April 16, 2006 @ 8:43 am
Britain has run out of natural resources
The UK is about to run out of its own natural resources and become dependent on supplies from abroad, a report says.
A study by the New Economics Foundation (Nef) and the Open University says 16 April is the day when the nation goes into “ecological debt” this year.
It warns if annual global consumption levels matched the UK’s, it would take 3.1 Earths to meet the demand.
“If you do not have the right signals within the economy to tell you when you are doing something very environmentally wasteful, then you cannot expect it to stop,” says Mr Simms, the report’s lead author.
“Lifestyles in Britain are becoming increasingly unsustainable and are placing an ever larger burden on the global environmental system.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4897252.stm
April 16th, 2006 at 2:19 pmOne more comment about the minimum wage: President Clinton in 1998 wanted to raise it from $4.75 to $5.50, but the Congress bitched about it, so settled on $5.15! It has not been raised a penny since then, so 25 cents a year raised would make it $7.50 now if Clinton had got $5.50 in 1998!
Tundra mentioned that a $2.00 raise now would be hard on small business owners and who is to blame for that fiasco? The Congress!!! Since they failed to raise it 25 cents a year > they should help to reimburse small business owners if it causes a hardship now to raise it $2.00+!
The Congress gave themselves more pay for the past 8 years, so they must raise the minimum wage to $7.50 now, or they give back every pay raise dollar they received over the past 8 years!
April 16th, 2006 at 2:50 pmThe Congress gave themselves more pay for the past 8 years, so they must raise the minimum wage to $7.50 now
I support a gradual pay increase, I also like the idea of once it gets there, tying it to inflation every year so they can stop ignoring it all the time and then deciding to react when it’s already FUBAR.
they give back every pay raise dollar they received over the past 8 years!
:)
I would just hate to see Congresmen/women living on the same amount of money as the rest of us.
http://www.conginst.org/congressional_myths/salaries.html
April 16th, 2006 at 3:11 pmAs of January 2005, Senators and Representatives receive $162,100 per year. Certain positions have higher rates of pay. The Majority and Minority Leaders in both the House and Senate and the President pro tempore of the Senate earn $180,100. The Speaker of the House earns $208,000.
They gave themselves another pay raise at the end of last year, in line with the Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing them unless they vote otherwise, and are now making $165,200 base.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa031200a.htm
April 16th, 2006 at 3:21 pmGood piece. There are really three core neglected issues: 1) a “living” minimum wage rate, 2) health care coverage for all, 3) affordable college & job training for all.
We cannot ever be a “great country” if we do not value these things and make them a reality for normal Americans.
Missing from this discussion however was the fact that the Republican Party has blocked & obstructed efforts to raise the minimum wage in Congress consistently throughout history. The Republican Party has philosophically opposed the idea of a minimum wage to begin with — just as it continually advances the idea of reverse-”Robin Hood” taxation policy — that provides welfare for the rich and raises the tax burden on the poor.
The problem in this Country is that people are blindly voting against their own best interests. Anyone who votes for Republican “trickle-down” economics is voting for their own decline in their standard-of-living, if not — their own eventual poverty.
The problems are solvable if people finally begin to reject Republicans and their feed-the-rich, starve-the-poor policies that produce nothing but: high deficits, weak dollar, recession, cutbacks in vital services, unemployment, fear, War, death, & destruction.
And for all you “Christians” out there, Jesus said ‘blessed are the peacemakers’ — not follow Republican Neo-Cons like Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld who want to overthrow governments in the middle east through bloodshed & chaos & mass murder (while letting Osama Bin Laden go free).
Start voting smarter!
April 16th, 2006 at 3:34 pmTundra the Congressional membership must just return their pay raise dollars for the last 8 years > Not their pay rate in 1998! For the past 8 years they gave themselves a raise, but refused to up the minimum wage! Who pays their salaries? American workers mostly by taxes!
April 16th, 2006 at 4:09 pmI don’t think that $7 per hour is enough to live on. Why don’t we raise the minimum wage to $40,000 per year?
April 16th, 2006 at 4:31 pmPost 90 that would be OK by me, but Corporate CEOs would commit suicide if they had to pay $40,000 a year for every employee! Plus they would have to lower their 100 million a year salaries > lol.
April 16th, 2006 at 10:07 pmWhen they give themselves wage increases and do not raise the minimum wage, it merely shows their greed and their dependence on corporate welfare.
April 17th, 2006 at 8:57 amAs long as there are Mexicans willing to work for peanuts our wage problems will never be resolved.
.
Comment by Stupid Republicans
Nonsense. The Negroes won’t work even if the wage is raised. Calls for workers in Houston among able bodied Katrina victims went unheeded @ $15.00/hr. So, what happened? Illegals called it a gold mine and flooded into town. The negroes flooded out the Mexicans flooded in.
Screw the minimum wage. It was never intended to feed a family and when it’s raised it only cuts down on the number of available jobs for kids and stupid people who actually want to work.
Oprah is just looking for another cause to occupy her time and to ease the guilt she feels for knocking down $180 million/year for feeding crap every day to stupid women.
April 17th, 2006 at 9:27 amfor feeding crap every day to stupid women.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 9:27 am
Be nice now. You are talking about your future wife, you know :)
April 17th, 2006 at 9:32 amBe nice now. You are talking about your future wife, you know :)
Comment by unbelievable
I doubt that I’ll ever be alone in the same room with a woman that watches Oprah or The View.
April 17th, 2006 at 10:21 amHey Oprah…where are all your poor suffering minimum wage workers who can’t feed a family on $5 an hour?
Migrants Find a Gold Rush in New Orleans
Word spread to Latino laborers as Katrina’s floodwaters ebbed: There is work with good money and no questions about papers.
By Sam Quinones, Times Staff Writer
April 4, 2006
NEW ORLEANS — As the floodwaters of Hurricane Katrina receded in September, roads filled with residents leaving the city, their cars, SUVs and moving vans jammed with what they had salvaged of their lives.
But another mass movement was taking place on the other sides of the highways.
Thousands of men from Mexico and Central America were driving into the city. Word had spread throughout the Latino immigrant diaspora in America that the city had plenty of work, construction wages had doubled to $16 an hour and no one was asking for papers.
“It was like a Gold Rush,” said Oscar Calanche, a Guatemalan immigrant who lived in New Orleans before the storm and returned as soon as the waters receded. “In one car there’d be three up front and three or four in the back, with suitcases and tools on top. It looked like a river of people from our countries.”
Latino workers have gutted, roofed and painted houses and hauled away garbage, debris and downed trees. Undocumented workers have installed trailers to house returning evacuees at New Orleans City Park, their pay coming from FEMA subcontractors.
“It’s all illegals doing this work,” said Rey Mendez, a FEMA trailer subcontractor from Honduras.
No one knows how many Latino immigrants are here, but John Logan, a Brown University demographer who has studied the city since Katrina, says “there must be 10,000 to 20,000 immigrant workers in the region by now, and the number is going to grow.”
As the Senate debates new immigration laws and marchers demonstrate across the country, these immigrants offer another reminder of the country’s reliance on undocumented labor from Latin America.
As New Orleans redefines itself after Katrina, the influx of large numbers of Latino immigrants is another jolt for a city that has historically thought of itself as black and white.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-labor4apr04,1,1553697.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true
A mexican will travel thousand miles across burning desert to get these jobs. The American Negro won’t take a free bus ride from Houston or Baton Rouge. Why is that Oprah?
April 17th, 2006 at 10:29 amFor whatever reasons, Oprah is right. I hope she’ll continue to crusade against today’s brazen moves to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
April 17th, 2006 at 10:54 amI doubt that I’ll ever be alone in the same room with a woman that watches Oprah or The View.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 10:21 am
What’s The View?
April 17th, 2006 at 10:55 am#97 I doubt you will be in the same room with a woman that isn’t tied up.
April 17th, 2006 at 11:19 amThis sickens me. Capitalism does not work. Trickle Down is a disproven Theory. Let’s try something else before the entire country goes bankrupt.
Comment by unbelievable
Yeah. Not only that but you’ve proven to me we need to put an end to the terrible suffrage of women. It’s just too painful to endure any longer. Unless we end the suffrage of women this country will soon go down the drain and straight into the gutter. END WOMEN’S SUFFRAGE NOW! Come on girls sign the petition.
http://www.wimp.com/suffrage/
April 17th, 2006 at 11:32 amEND WOMEN’S SUFFRAGE NOW! Come on girls sign the petition.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 11:32 am
I can’t believe you’d think WE are that stupid. Suffage is our right to vote. And we ain’t giving it up.
Bet you’d get a lot of signatures at your church though. Submissives just want to please you no matter how much they damage themselves in the process. And I bet they don’t know what it really is. Yet you willinging enter a room where they are…
April 17th, 2006 at 11:37 amI doubt you will be in the same room with a woman that isn’t tied up.
Comment by progressive and proud — April 17, 2006 @ 11:19 am
Good one!
April 17th, 2006 at 11:39 amI-RIGHT-I prove Trickle Down works…
April 17th, 2006 at 11:41 amI-RIGHT-I prove Trickle Down works…
Comment by unbelievable
Prove it doesn’t. Start by looking at the John F. Kennedy tax cuts and the response to our economy and standard of living after all that money stayed in the hands of THE PEOPLE and out of the hands of government crooks.
April 17th, 2006 at 12:06 pmI can’t believe you’d think WE are that stupid.
Comment by unbelievable
The film speaks for itself.
April 17th, 2006 at 12:09 pmProve it doesn’t.
Didn’t you read the Exxon CEO forum? I figured since you posted there, that you’d actually read the contents of the post.
When the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it’s because the rich are holding on to their money and not allowing it to circulate. That’s the current situation. The disparity between the classes is the largest it has ever been because the flow of wealth is not down, but up. Ever been to Jamaica? It’s a good study for where we are headed.
If people followed the rules, which is what Capitalism supposes, then I would think it’s a great system. Unfortunately, people are not following the rules and the system is not working as a result.
Start by looking at the John F. Kennedy tax cuts and the response to our economy and standard of living after all that money stayed in the hands of THE PEOPLE and out of the hands of government crooks.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 12:06 pm
I will later, but I was talking in terms of Corporate American greed and not government. Though lately there’s no as much distinction…
April 17th, 2006 at 12:16 pmThe film speaks for itself.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 12:09 pm
I’ve told you why. You need to support feminism so that woman care more about the country than darning your socks. You want smarter women, you have to be willing to sacrifice something so that they can educate themselves.
April 17th, 2006 at 12:22 pmSubmissives just want to please you no matter how much they damage themselves in the process. Comment by unbelievable
I can never find those kind of chicks, not from lack of trying though :)
April 17th, 2006 at 1:29 pmTrickle-Down Economics: Four Reasons Why It Just Doesn’t Work
By Mehrun Etebari
July 17, 2003
We’ve all heard the claims that cutting tax rates for the richest Americans will improve the standard of living for the working class. Supposedly, top-bracket tax breaks will result in more jobs being created, higher wages for the average worker, and an overall upturn in our economy. It’s at the heart of the infamous trickle-down theory.
The past 40 years have seen a gradual decrease in the top bracket’s income tax rate, from 91% in 1963 to 35% in 2003. It went as low as 28% in 1988 and 1989 due to legislation passed under Reagan, the trickle-down theory’s most famous adherent. The Clinton years saw the top bracket hold steady at a higher rate of 39.6%, but under the younger Bush’s tax-cut policies, the rich are once again paying less. The drastic change in tax policy that has taken place since the early 1960s gives us a great opportunity to study and evaluate the claims that lower taxes for the rich translate to more wealth for the average American.
We can compare changes in the top tax rate with the real GDP growth rate (a measure of the growth of the entire U.S. economy), and three measures of how life is for the average working American: annual median income growth, annual average hourly wage growth, and job creation. If cuts for the rich were really the magic elixir for the economy and the middle class that the Republican consensus claims it is, we would see an increase in the four indicators whenever the tax rate dropped. However, this is not the case. Such a trend occurs sometimes, but the opposite happens at other times!
1. Cutting the top tax rate does not lead to economic growth.
2. Cutting the top tax rate does not lead to income growth.
3. Cutting the top tax rate does not lead to wage growth.
4. Cutting the top tax rate does not lead to job creation.
Overall, data from the past 50 years strongly refutes any arguments that cutting taxes for the richest Americans will improve the economic standing of the lower and middle classes or the nation as a whole. To be sure, the economic indicators examined in this report are dependent on a variety of factors, not just tax policy. However, what this study does show is that any attempt to stimulate economic growth by cutting taxes for the rich will do nothing — it hasn’t worked over the past 50 years, so why would it work in the future? To put it simply and bluntly, Bush’s top-bracket tax cut is an ineffective attempt at stimulus that will not cause any growth — unless, of course, if you’re talking about the size of the deficit.
http://www.faireconomy.org/research/TrickleDown.html
April 17th, 2006 at 1:42 pmI can never find those kind of chicks, not from lack of trying though :)
Comment by Tundra — April 17, 2006 @ 1:29 pm
I thought you were married?
You like submissive women? Well, there are Alpha Males who like submissives and Alpha Males who like Alpha Females. If you want a submissives, you have to change your religion and go to church. You also have to look like you have money and be a jerk. Do that, and they’ll find you. Just ask IRI. Unlike you, he likes Alpha Females. Unfortunately, as you can see, we don’t hang out in church. And he doesn’t seem to understand that.
April 17th, 2006 at 1:47 pmUnlike you, he likes Alpha Females. Unfortunately, as you can see, we don’t hang out in church. And he doesn’t seem to understand that.
Comment by unbelievable
Alpha and Female are contradictory terms. I think the word you’re looking for is bitch.
April 17th, 2006 at 1:51 pmAlpha and Female are contradictory terms. I think the word you’re looking for is bitch.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
Nonsense. Read this:
Political obituaries often contain many references to the alpha male, a description which, applied to humans, apparently denotes physical prowess, high achievement, bullying and sexual attraction. It is not an entirely flattering term, calling to mind the aggressive chest-beating of a silverback gorilla, but perfectly describes someone who bends others to his will.
But what of the alpha female? Alexandra Shulman, editor of Vogue, wrote in a recent column that the alpha female would never get lost in traffic, and would look good in a miniskirt. Is she, like Shirley Conran’s Superwoman, all things to all people? Is she someone we like, or admire? Does she even exist?
If we base the alpha female on the male model, we will find her in the boardroom, impersonating his bullying and overriding ambition. Sexuality plays a big part in an alpha male’s success, and alpha female Margaret Thatcher was a tremendous flirt, who spent a lot of effort on her appearance.
There are very few alpha females of this order, since most women have had the alpha-male qualities conditioned out of them and have been steered towards nurturing roles rather than world domination.
“Alpha female is pretty exceptional,” says columnist Polly Toynbee. “There are not a whole lot of people trying to be like her, whereas there are a lot of men behaving in the same way, clambering over each other to reach the top of the tree. Those women who do get to the top are mavericks, hybrids and deny that they are like other women.
Women do not like alpha female very much, nor do they want to be like them. Women want to be liked, which holds them back.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/27/1064083207751.html?from=storyrhs
You better not have just called me a bitch. I will kick your ass :P
April 17th, 2006 at 2:13 pm6 Signs You’re Dating An Alpha Female
She’s on top of her dating game. She is obstinate, conceited and doesn’t make it easy for you to pick her up. She gives you a run for your money and makes you work overtime on her, so to speak. But all this only makes her more appealing to you. She is, in other words, the quintessential “alpha female.”
The alpha female has an uncanny ability to make men chase her. Her talent is very distinct from that of the “alpha male,” a man whose aptitude for chasing women is finely tuned. But the alpha female’s talents are special, and consequently, chasing her might be your biggest dating challenge yet.
1. She acts unimpressed by your romantic gestures
An alpha female is used to men chasing her, so don’t be surprised if cliché gifts like flowers and chocolate don’t impress her. Remember this: Her expectations are higher than most women’s, so you will have to be a little more original to get her attention.
How to counteract it: Try writing her a personalized letter and leaving it on her windshield, for example. Or make her lunch and bring it to her at work. Whatever it is, be different.
2. She continues to date other men
Clearly, she doesn’t want to commit. The alpha woman always has several men on the go and likes to keep her options open.
How to counteract it: The only way to deal with her wandering eyes is to do the same. In other words, fight fire with fire and continue to date other women until you discuss otherwise.
3. She’s hard to reach
The alpha female is a busy woman, or at least she is very talented at making you believe that. She likes to have you at her beck and call and wants you to work around her schedule.
How to counteract it: Don’t become the last-minute, just-in-case guy — that won’t earn you any respect in the long term. Make sure she realizes that you have your own commitments by not working entirely around her schedule. Do continue to pursue her if you think you have a shot, but be casual when you call. And definitely don’t call more than twice before she calls you back.
4. She insists on paying her share of the bill
If she always insists on going Dutch, she might be pulling one of her fancy alpha tricks. Why? Because if you never treat her, she’ll never owe you anything. Nada.
How to counteract it: Continue to offer to pay on dates, but if she seems adamant about paying her share, don’t insist. If you want to avoid the whole awkward bill-splitting moment, tell her you’ll take her to your “secret spot” and bring along a picnic to surprise her.
6. She is sarcastic and condescending to you
If she constantly talks down to you and makes rude or mocking remarks, you need to defend your honor and fight back with equally witty comments. You never know what the alpha female might say, so you always have to be “on” and ready for verbal combat.
How to counteract it: Use a negative hit only when absolutely necessary (something mildly but not overly insulting). This will throw her off balance and threaten her feelings of control. However, if your exchanges are consistently negative and disrespectful, you’re probably better off moving on; you shouldn’t have to put up with her abuse.
April 17th, 2006 at 2:22 pmyou’re probably better off moving on; you shouldn’t have to put up with her abuse.
Comment by unbelievable
Bitch slap her. Problem solved and like a whipped puppy, will follow you anywhere at which point you dump her and date her younger sister. There is no such thing as an alpha female.
April 17th, 2006 at 3:19 pmYou better not have just called me a bitch. I will kick your ass :P
Comment by unbelievable
I certainly don’t think you are a female dog.
April 17th, 2006 at 3:21 pmBitch slap her. Problem solved and like a whipped puppy, will follow you anywhere at which point you dump her and date her younger sister. There is no such thing as an alpha female.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 3:19 pm
Bullshit. And, for the record, you should now that Alpha Females won’t tolerate caveman behavior. I’ll even give you a personal example. Just for kicks.
In college, one of my boyfriends went to an end of quarter party without me and around 10:00 one of his fraternity brothers came to my dorm room to tell me that my boyfriend had hooked up with and left the party with his ex-girlfriend.
So, there was this guy that all the women drooled over. He personally didn’t do anything for me, but neither does Brad Pitt. He and my boyfriend HATED each other with a passion. So, after Spring Break, I went to a party without my boyfriend, and made out with his nemesis in front of all of their friends. Later night, the guy went to my boyfriend’s dorm room, woke him up and laughed in his face. Granted I was only 18, but I think I made my point.
I think I can out stubborn you:
from http://www.dictionary.com:
al-pha
Being the highest ranked or most dominant individual of one’s sex. Used of social animals: the alpha female of the wolf pack.
April 17th, 2006 at 3:36 pmI certainly don’t think you are a female dog.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
What grade are you in?
April 17th, 2006 at 3:38 pmWhat grade are you in?
Comment by unbelievable
That depends, how young do you like ‘em?
April 17th, 2006 at 4:19 pmThat depends, how young do you like ‘em?
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 17, 2006 @ 4:19 pm
I can’t believe you still haven’t told me how old you are.
I like certain people, and just accept them as they come. Youngest guy I ever dated was 11 years and 10 months younger. Oldest was 5 years older. He was 40 but looked like he was 28… Turned out to have a nasty temper if you disagreed with him. He was definitely into submissives, but kept chasing me because I thnk he liked the challenge of an Alpha Female ; )
April 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pmI can’t believe you still haven’t told me how old you are.
Comment by unbelievable
I’m older than you unless you’re lying about your age.
He was definitely into submissives, but kept chasing me because I thnk he liked the challenge of an Alpha Female ; )
Comment by unbelievable
There’s no such thing as an alpha female and he was chasing you because that’s what we do.
April 18th, 2006 at 10:25 amI’m older than you unless you’re lying about your age.
I haven’t lied to you about anything. I actually had parents who meant it when they said “Tell us the truth and you won’t get in trouble”. Unfortunately, in the regular world it routinely gets me in trouble.
I thought so. Not that it changes anything.
There’s no such thing as an alpha female and he was chasing you because that’s what we do.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 18, 2006 @ 10:25 am
Yes there is.
Certain Alpha Males (like you) like a constant chase. It’s what I once said to you about knowing you were the kind of guy I could never allow to catch me. Submissives and regular woman can’t keep up that kind of cat and mouse game, because they like stability and certainty too much (and why they can’t hold your interest for very long either) – where as I, the Alpha Female, am the opposite of them and actually lose interest in relationships without Alpha Males who like the constant chase. It’s one of the reason that inspite of our differences, we have this chemistry.
April 18th, 2006 at 10:53 am[...] Susie at Suburban Guerilla astutely points out: “Say what you will about Oprah, but she’s probably the only powerful media person who would devote an entire show to the minimum wage crisis.” Thnk Progess account (with video clip) available here. Corollary Oprah Winfrey show site here, which highlighlights related resources, including this book:“The Betrayal of Work: How Low-Wage Jobs Fail 30 Million Americans“ by Beth Shulman. [...]
April 18th, 2006 at 11:14 am[…] Susie at Suburban Guerilla astutely points out: “Say what you will about Oprah, but she’s probably the only powerful media person who would devote an entire show to the minimum wage crisis.â€
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Oprah is the only idiot on the tube that would call not paying teenagers to flip burgers $10/hr a crisis.
April 18th, 2006 at 1:34 pmI-RIGHT-I,
Next time you to to Walmart to buy your new wardrobe, take a look at the people working there- many of them are not teens and they aren’t making as much as $10 per hour either.
You must be part of the “Fuck You, I Got Mine” GOP.
April 19th, 2006 at 5:25 pmA few things seem to be overlooked here. One, a person who completes the minimum provided education in the US and stays out of catastrophic legal trouble will make far more than minimum wage. I (without a degree) make 10/hr and my husband (without a degree) makes 50,000/yr. He worked his way up from 7.50/hr. This is possible for anyone in this fine country of ours. There is no good reason to drop out of school, and it intrigues me when people decry the results of their own bad decisions.Second point, I personally know people who make minimum wage. They have trouble paying rent, but no trouble paying for cable tv, cell phones, cigarettes, and fast food. Having lived as a single mother on little more than minimum wage, I know it possible to survive on very little IF you are willing to give up extras. I had a roommate and basically lived on rice and beans. In the US, the fastest increasing health problem among the poor is obesity–they apparently have money for processed food that costs 3-4x what healthier whole foods cost. Our POOR live better than the middle classes of most other countries. I don’t see the crisis. Yeah, socialism works, sure–tell that to someone who nearly died trying to escape Communist Russia. If socialism is so perfect, why do they have to put armed guards at their borders keeping people IN while we, the supposed capitalist hell, have to put armed guards keeping people OUT.
April 21st, 2006 at 7:01 pmIm curious as to what Oprah pays her employees. I hope she is not being a hypocrit and doesnt pay any of her employees minimum wage since its such a ‘crises’. Dont get me wrong i like oprah and like her show…when i watched this one i just wondered if her employees get paid well enough to live in good ole chicago.
April 23rd, 2006 at 6:23 pmI live in holland, the legal minimumwage here is €7,34 which is about $9.30. Health insurance for everyone is mandatory and is automatically deducted from your wages. The minimumwage is increased every year by that year’s inflation rate. Also, hospital care must be given to anyone who is in the netherlands and needs it, even if they cannot afford it.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:10 amAs for the capitalism-communism debate, socialism is not necessarily communism. In Europe a lot of political parties are based on socialist ideologies, but they are democratic. Communism is based on Karl Marx’ law of historic materialism, the social-democrats are not, which is a big difference.
What I’m trying to say is that there is a viable third way. Extreme capitalism like that in the USA leads to significant problems, Communism like that in the former USSR also leads to significant problems. In western europe a system has emerged which takes the sharp edges off of the capitalist system. This seems to work quite well and perhaps the US will also shift more towards this model. When I look at the economic statistics of the neterhlands in the CIA world factbook it says Population below poverty line:
NA% which makes me proud to be dutch.
I still do not think this will have a effect on people. The welfare program makes it to easy for people to live off the system. Dont get me wrong for the people that want to work this is great. How ever it will hurt the people that do work in the long run because the cost on everything else will go up. For example food, us who have to pay with cash will be paying more, the ones that get food stamps that “can” work that choose not to because it is easier to collect assistance will still be getting there food for free while we pay more for it. I think they need to crack down on the assistance program and make it easier on us that work.
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