VIDEO: Myers Claims Shinseki Was Merely ‘Pulling A Number Out’ Of Thin Air
VIDEO: Myers Claims Shinseki Was Merely ‘Pulling A Number Out’ Of Thin Air
This morning, former Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Richard Myers attempted to defend Rumsfeld from recent criticisms from U.S. generals that we needed more post-war troops in Iraq.
Myers was forced to defend Rumsfeld’s treatment of Gen. Eric Shinseki, who called for “several hundred thousand soldiers” before the war. While acknowledging that Shinseki was “improperly criticized” for speaking out, Myers disingenuously downplayed Shinseki’s courageous act to speak out honestly at the time. (Watch it.)
MYERS: It is significant that in all our discussions leading up to the war on Iraq that…General Shinseki never spoke up again about the number of troops it would take.
…
I’m just saying that General Shinseki was forced to make that comment under pressure, pulled a number out.
…
Let me go back to General Shinseki for a moment. People have misplayed his comments over and over, and it’s just absolutely incorrect in context. He was forced to make — say a number. He said a number. He was inappropriately criticized I believe for speaking out.
Myers fails to accept that Shinseki’s judgment approximated the view of many military commanders at the time. As Ret. Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who led the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq, said this morning on Good Morning America:
You know, there’s a process within the Department of Defense, a very deliberate planning process which goes into each contingency and deliberately analytically develops war plans. It continues year to year. Our senior leadership chose to radically modify 12 years of very deliberate planning with respect to Iraq. Previous planning identified the requirement for three times the level of forces that we committed into Iraq to take down a regime and then build the peace.
The Bush administration’s treatment of Shinseki had the effect of silencing others in the chain of command who agreed with him. Click here to see key facts in the smearing of Shinseki.
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it’s hard defending the indefensible
April 16th, 2006 at 12:54 pmMeyers doesn’t want to jeopardize any cushy jobs for his close family members. Meyers will be the Admiral Doenitz of the Bush Hague Trials.
-GSD
April 16th, 2006 at 12:55 pmwhere’s Shinseki’s medal?
April 16th, 2006 at 12:57 pmThe military should have just named the Iraqi gambit, Operation Blind Allegiance, while the administration desperately clings to Operation Irrational Exuberance, retired generals are launching Operation Hurled Invective, which is now turning into Operation Hopeless Endeavor. Unfortunately, all planning was taken off the table for Operation Revised Assesment.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:02 pmAny Iranian incursion will be dubbed, Operation Miss Rice Thinks Twice.
How did that freak made chief of staff , probably pulled out of thin air or as a born again affiliation like so many at the air force academy .He was not very impressive parroting Rummy.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:04 pmGeneral Shinseki is just one of many to whom George W. Bush needs to make amends as part of his 12-Step Program:
In February 2003, General Shinseki presciently forecast to the Senate Armed Services Committee that the Iraqi occupation would require “something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers.†In response, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, who dismissed his estimates as “wildly off the markâ€, savaged Shinseki. Secretary Rumsfeld echoed, “the idea that it would take several hundred thousand U.S. forces I think is far off the mark.†In June 2003, the honorable war hero Shinseki retired.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:10 pmMay 12, 2004: Testifying before the Senate, General Richard Myers admitted that we’re checkmated in Iraq.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:13 pm“There is no way to militarily lose in Iraq,” he said, describing the generals’ consensus. “There is also no way to militarily win in Iraq.”
It’s not SHINSKI…ITS SHINSEKI
April 16th, 2006 at 1:29 pmThe Big Question: If Shinseki, and the others who are asking for Rumsfeld to resign, represent a “handfull’ of generals who are dissenting (according to Rumsfeld they’re a minority and we shouldn’t judge anything by that, there’s nothing to see here, move on…), then why isn’t that “majority” who supposedly sing Rumsfeld’s praise speaking out? So in denial.
The great white ship is sinking and the lifeboats are missing. It’s time for sink or swim.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:33 pmTo all of America, the Bush/Cheney Adminstration and Karl Rove and the Neo-COns offer:
Operation Cleveland Steamer
Now it is our job to clean up their shit.
Heckuva job.
-GSD
April 16th, 2006 at 1:33 pm“I’m just saying that General Shinseki was forced to make that comment under pressure, pulled a number out…”
April 16th, 2006 at 1:41 pmYeah, we’re all feeling a little pressure these days.
Tell ya what, I’m gonna go ahead and throw a figure out there, an overestimate if you will, and you do your best to meet the demand in fewer numbers.
Okay, here we go: The Bush administration will be forced out of office in 3 months.
Now, get to work.
If more generals did not speak up is perhaps they were reminded of GW’s : ” Either you are with us or you’ re against us , and if you are , you’re a traitor . Powerfull threat. in time of war.It sure clamed up Powell .
April 16th, 2006 at 1:43 pmYeah, Bush’s Fear Factor is working fine and dandy. This either/or mentality is trickling down like a toxin. This reminds me of the manipulative mind-games our street bully played when I was growing up played on the susceptible and weak – gimme your lunch money (fealty) or I’ll beat you up after school (you’re the enemy)….either/or…
Like the class bully’s tactics, this can only go on for so long. One day the skinny kid from down the street always will blind-sides him for good.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:52 pmShinseki used a number based on Tommy Frank’s estimate at the time.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:53 pmIf you knew if you spoke up about something,you would be fired,demoted,shuned or punished, you would be smart to work around your truthfull actions.
April 16th, 2006 at 1:55 pmHow many in the administration are part of PNAC or the civilian Defense Policy Board? Did anyone on the civilian Defense Policy Board not want to go to war with Iraq (cough, cough)? Bush, Cheney, Rove, FOX had set up our country almost perfectly where anyone that tried to ask questions, raise issues was immediately attacked. I remember reading Rumsfeld wanted a new military, small, that could rush in kill the opponent, and leave. Quick and clean. It was all so perfect in Rumsfeld eyes. A computerized military. Today’s gamers are tomorrow’s military. And the aftermath, well, “Democracy is messy”. I remember when this General spoke out, and then I remember hearing he resigned. There was no analysis or debate just, he was wrong, and worse. Just like the former Treasury Secretary O’Neill, he spoke out, Cheney rebuked, and O’Neill resigned. How many articles or reports do we have to read, this administration only wants “yes” men and women. They don’t want the facts, reality, debate, and all those things you’d find in a Democracy. It appears they want us to shut up, don’t think, and consume.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:02 pmMyers should look in the mirror and wipe off his brown nose. He denigrated the comments of Shinseki, as he, himself, is set for life personally, and so is his extended family. He and Tommy Franks are both yes-men to this egomaniacal Rumsefld and the power-mad president. When you are top man under those two civilians, you owe integrity and honesty to your troops as well as your country and Myers (and Franks) chose to save themselves alone. At least Stephanopolous questioned some of the comments Myers made.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:04 pmGen. Batiste made a personal sacrifice and gave up his third star when he resigned because he couldn’t take it any more.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:11 pmI think on this one, we should all stand back and let the White House thoroughly piss off the military.
April 16th, 2006 at 2:24 pmGeneral Myers is a lousy officer if he defends the vile Bush Regime and that clown Rummy?! The entire Pentagon should tell Bush to fire Rumsfeld or they will be forced to do a coup d’etat!
April 16th, 2006 at 2:30 pmThe Ghost of Shinseki–in 2003, he bucked the trend of ‘yes-men’ and offered his own candid assessment of what was needed in Iraq. His prophetic predictions about Iraq were unfortunately ignored and now haunt those responsible for planning and executing the war.
More
April 16th, 2006 at 3:01 pmhttp://counterpunch.org/hoffmeister04152006.html
Do any of these corporate talking heads actually point out that TOMMY FRANKS AND RICHARD MYERS WERE MISERABLE FAILURES?
FRANKS FAILED TO GET BIN LADEN IN AFGHANISTAN AND FAILED TO SECURE IRAQ, AND MYERS JUST MADE THINGS WORSE IN BOTH COUNTRIES.
Far from being treated as experts, FRANKS AND MYERS SHOULD BE SHOT FOR INCOMPETENCE.
April 16th, 2006 at 3:21 pmMeyers is a war criminal that participated in an invasion based in part on the pentagon’s lies (what do people think those drones were for?), and had no intention of “winning” the war or peace, but was to use it to mask the draining of billions of dollors while installing the US capitol building of the middle east and several massive military bases in order to continue the fake war on terror. The drones were flown everwhere around Iraq and provide some of the finest photos available, unlike the satalite shots that we are usually shown.
This whole GWOT thing is a sham. The US needs money and resources NOW since the leadership on all sides (dems, reps, military and industry), have completely failed in their leadership over the last three decades. This is part of the problem when the country runs a foreign policy that has no transparency or accountability to the people.
April 16th, 2006 at 3:28 pmThe Bush administration’s treatment of Shinseki had the effect of silencing others in the chain of command who agreed with him
Good, something needs to be done about these self serving “experts” who are undermining the war effort. There’s a time and a place for criticism and consultation and it’s not during a war and on the public airways.
April 16th, 2006 at 3:48 pmit’s hard defending the indefensible
Comment by Jack
As a Liberal Fuckwit and Democrat I guess you should know.
April 16th, 2006 at 3:51 pmSo I guess what Myers means is that the Generals just lie or make up numbers when they are pressed for facts.
The Generals, according to this theory of Myers, are like other Bushies and the Republicans. They just lie when they don’t have the facts on hand.
If that were true of Shinseki, then what does it say about Myers himself: Maybe he (Myers) just made up that as an excuse this morning when pressed on the issue!!.
April 16th, 2006 at 4:27 pmAs a Liberal Fuckwit and Democrat I guess you should know.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — April 16, 2006 @ 3:51 pm
So much for being nice on Easter Sunday…
April 16th, 2006 at 4:53 pmThis Myers,is he a ‘yes man’or what? What a pussy to be a five star.
April 16th, 2006 at 5:52 pmThe occupation force was gutted. Rumsfeld, when told he needed FIVE tank batallions, said they could “Do it on the cheap,” which meant cobbling together a batallion of Kuwaiti tanks for our boys to drive, a decision which allowed for what Army War college calls a ‘near disaster’ — a three hundred mile long unsecured supply line, which got Marines and soldiers KILLED.
Two Marines in the first days were ordered in full battlegear across an irrigation ditch, without either of the safety lines required in such a maneuver (and I am told the manual requires the stripping of heavy gear). They disappeared from sight in seconds, and the unit spent the rest of the day searching downstream for their bodies. THAT WAS RUMSFELD’S FAULT, and there is a lot more.
In Afghanistan, Rumsfeld put 1,500 troops in to get Bin Laden at Tora Bora. FIFTEEN HUNDRED! That’s not enough to form a decent PX, much less to attack bunkers and tunnels WE helped build. So they let him escape, oohrah.
But then again, Rumsfeld renegotiated NORAD’s standing orders in such a way that there was no air defense for the Pentagon. For that alone he should be strung up by his thumbs, nevermind all the civilians he got killed in NYC.
April 16th, 2006 at 6:03 pmSo much for being nice on Easter Sunday…
Comment by unbelievable
I tried real hard not to say that. But baby, it was slow and right down the middle of the plate!
April 16th, 2006 at 6:59 pmThe shock, pain and anger of 9/11 was clearly the factor that brought the military to follow its orders – but as each domino fell, wmd, looting,disbanding the Iraqi army without knowing where it stood post invasion, lack of protective armor, being a personal bodyguard service for scum like greedy contractors and Iraqi government wannabes,and now using contaminated water – it got to be too much – even for the U.S.military. God bless their patience, but now is the time to be heard especially when so much for us all is at stake. So many civilians will stand behind them if they speak out. It would also help to keep a heavy hand on our congressional and senate representatives to tell them they will be held accountable for holding their tongues.
April 16th, 2006 at 7:21 pmRight-I will also need to pen explanations for Rumsfeld-Bush:
• FAILURE to guard any of the nine nuclear dumps in the country. The cesium and strontium that was there is now in the hands of hostiles. Thanks, George!
• FAILURE to guard Al Qa-qa and other munitions dumps, releasing 380 TONS of Semtek and other high-explosives — which are now blowing our soldiers out of their shoes, along with a lot of civilians every day.
• FAILURE to guard 450 shoulder-fired missiles, which are now in the hands of hostiles.
• FAILURE to guard the National Museum, the National Library, the Koran-Torah Repository, the mosques, the lives (Geneva Conventions, UN charter) and the property of civilians (Hague Conventions).
• FAILURE to find WMD after saying that they had absolute proof of their existence.
• FAILURE to armor our troops (responsible for 1/4 of the troop deathtoll, according to Army War College, those damn liberals).
• FAILURE to tell the truth to the American people and their Congress.
• FAILURE to tell the truth to the UN, and the troops.
• FAILURE to deploy sufficient troops to quell violence.
• FAILURE to uphold the UN charter by establishing illegal permanent airbases in a sovereign UN country by violent invasion.
• FAILURE to guard the country on Nine-eleven.
• FAILURE to guard the Pentagon with ANYTHING other than Rumsfeld’s shrugs.
• FAILURE to guard the Capitol, though luckily a USAF hero shot down the airliner headed that way.
• FAILURE to capture Bin Laden, even though he was cornered at Tora Bora.
• FAILURE to dismantle the Taliban.
• FAILURE to guard the national treasury, by an ENDLESS SERIES OF UTTERLY ILLEGAL WAR PROFITERING.
• FAILURE to protect the Constitution, the guaranteed rights of citizens, and the legal right to vote.
Right-I will want to get started on that punchlist of his own lies, and stop waving his few ounces of man-meat in everyone’s faces like he is the only true male of the species. Get over it, kid. You’re an impotent supporter of traitors.
April 16th, 2006 at 7:32 pmIndeed and look at how well Post war Iraq is doing.
“Our working budgetary assumption was that 90 days after completion of the operation, we would withdraw the first 50,000 and then every 30 days we’d take out another 50,000 until everybody was back. ( Planning for Postwar Iraq as ordered by Rumsfield)
Thomas E. White – Former secretary of the Army
Not to worry.
US Military Support for the president in down from 64% to 53%. Officer support is rported to be higher at 75% which is extrodrinarly low.
April 16th, 2006 at 8:36 pmPresident Bush Junior should give an Easter present to the entire nation by resigning tomorrow! He can move back to his phony Texas ranch and ride his bicycle for the rest of his damn stupid worthless life > lol.
April 16th, 2006 at 10:11 pmYes…. there are a lot more failures than those listed.
FAILURE to understand the history of the Iraq peoples and that it is impossible to get the factions to agree on just about anything.
FAILURE to understand that a KURD (mostly Sunni believing), Sunni, and Shia majority would select a constitution in line with fundemental Islam, more repressive than that even under Saddam.
FAILURE to recognize that you cannot run a empire on “democracy” building.
FAILURE to recognize that unless there is structure and economy, no nation, free or conquered, can stand.
FAILURE to convince Russia and China that IRAN is a threat (in other words shun their own pretroleum interests).
FAILURE to do a risk assesment of foreign polocy decisions (i.e. what increases terrorism…what decreases terrorism)
FAILURE to negotiate with any other country in good faith.
FAILURE to deal fairly with any democratically elected government, that does not align itself with the US neocon philosophy.
FAILURE to have the humility to listen to experts in any field before promoting a political view.
FAILURE to promote competence above loyalty and cronyism.
FAILURE to understand the difference between defending the US Constitution and defending the President and his crony administration.
FAILURE to understand how breaches in torture definition can deteriorate the all of world’s treatment of prisoners.
This list could go on ad infinitum, but some of us humans must sleep from time to time.
April 16th, 2006 at 11:57 pmHas this been done before?
It may be helpful in defining ‘the articles’ if others at TP could join and amass/expand the list of failures. An extensive, cohesive, and irrefutable list of failures could be a useful tool for (1) developing articles of impeachment, (2) identifying traits we do not want (read — selecting) our own party leaders, (3) helping to defeat the incompetent in this years elections.
April 17th, 2006 at 12:09 amFrom Woodward’s Plan of Attack
PAGE 40
April 17th, 2006 at 12:14 amAn impatient Rumsfeld wanted the first formal presentation on the Iraq war plan from Franks thee days later on December 4 [2001] at the Pentagon. [snip] Franks began by saying that in the short period of time all he had been able to do was tinker with Op Plan 1003. He now had it trimmed down to a force level of 400,000 over 6 months, having cut 100,000 and one month from the base plan.
General Myers apparently pulled this story of his out of his arse. BushCo is downplaying the credibility of the retired Generals coming out over Rumsfeld’s incompetence, saying they had a chance to speak out while still in the military. Shinseki starkly represents why THAT was clearly a bad idea. But now we are suppossed to believe a retired General who is in support of Rumsfeld? Make up your minds!!! I would also like to mention that General Myers’ daughter is married to Michael Chertoff, the head of the DHS. She was the recipient of a recess appointment by Bush, to an important post in the department of Immigration, which was held up in Committee, due to questions about her lack of qualifications. It will take years to unsnarl all of the links in this Republican chain of disasters and the attendant collusions.
April 17th, 2006 at 2:45 amFor just “pulling a number out of thin air” he was much more accurate than Rummy. Wow, even an arbitrary figure pulled out of a “tired” generals mind would have been a better choice. I think that says a lot, don’t you?
Maybe we should make decisions about the war based on a game of poker.
April 17th, 2006 at 8:54 amI’m sorry, wasn’t Gen. Meyer’s neice, Lisa, the one who was a recess appointment by the President, one of 18 that the President ran past his own party? An appointment to the second largest Federal agaency related to DHS. ICE. This is loyality and nepotism at it’s finest.
April 17th, 2006 at 10:45 amGeneral Bernard Trainor (CobraII) said on Al Franken’s show Friday that Shinseki’s numbers came from Tommy Frank’s own battle plan and were precisely 385,000.
April 17th, 2006 at 1:57 pmIt just keep’s getting more rediculious by the minute. All this family members and close tie instilations standing up for their reich. Like royalty in past centuries perhaps they are all in bed together, literely. Line breeding is what the rich do, inbreeding is the same thing by the poor in some cultures. The end results is what we are seeing now. Total insanety…….Blessings
April 17th, 2006 at 2:05 pmMeyers was put in just before 9-11.Remember he and Ronald Dumsfeld were in in his office during the attacks and didn’t get the messages.He said his beeper was off.
April 18th, 2006 at 4:00 am