VIDEO: 8th General Calls For Rumsfeld’s Resignation
By on Apr 24th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
VIDEO: 8th General Calls For Rumsfeld’s Resignation
Fox News is reporting an eighth general has called for Rumsfeld’s resignation. Ret. Marine General Paul Van Riper said he constantly talks with many active duty and retired senior officers who share his feelings that Secretary Rumsfeld has not fought the Iraq war competently. He told Fox that Rumsfeld has run the Pentagon through intimidation and that a change in leadership is needed. Watch it:
Excerpt:
If this leader is not capable of doing it, now going in excess of five years, has not demonstrated he is, then perhaps it is time to find a new one. If I was the president, I would have relieved him three years ago.
Van Riper follows the calls of Generals Swannack, Newbold, Eaton, Zinni, Batiste, Riggs, and Clark.
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Beware of the Ides of March, Rumsfeld!
April 24th, 2006 at 3:15 pmWow! An eighth general came forward to call for Rummy's firing and Fox News Channel gave him time to air his views??? Is somebody slipping at that network? Do they have some new people who haven't signed the loyalty oath yet? To me, the fact that Fox aired this gentleman is more newsworthy than what he is saying (which is also very newsworthy.)
April 24th, 2006 at 3:17 pmCan we get Congress to join this party too? Impeach Bush, so he can take Rummy with him?
April 24th, 2006 at 3:18 pmFOX!
Very interesting. Has Fox finally realized that they will make money if they cater to the majority of Americans, instead of the minority of Bush fanactics?
We can only hope.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:20 pmHere let me fill you in on this guy. He's a coward, a traitor, a Clintonista, a partisan Democrat, he gave money to Tom Daschle and Ted Kennedy and Joseph Stalin, he is gay, he's a hack, he got his job by being a suck-up, he has a book for sale, he is out of touch, he is a thug, a goon, a thrid world dictator wannabe, he looks like Noriega, Pinochet, Khaddaffy, Idi Amin, he's selling a new book, he hates America, he hates freedom, loves Al Qaeda, he is French, Muslim, queer, blah,blah,blah.....
I was just trying to save our resident trolls some typing.
-GSD
April 24th, 2006 at 3:21 pmIntersting Tact, he is not saying I think this, he is saying that many of his friends in the pentagon are also saying this. we have a mild soldier revolt in the ranks it looks like.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#4
Nah...they just had to do something before month's end to earn that "Fair and Balanced" claim.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:23 pm#7 Yes, 5 minutes of truth to balance out all of the bullshit.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:26 pmRussert reported the civil war in the Pentagon last week. This lends credence to his statement.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:26 pmThe best sign from all these generals speaking out is that maybe when the putsch comes the military will decline to act like they did in Bolivia so Evo Morales could get in....
April 24th, 2006 at 3:27 pmI guess we need to add an asterick to all those Support the Troop magnetic ribbons.
* except for retired generals
April 24th, 2006 at 3:29 pm* except for those troops that have left combat and need medical care.
* except for those troops that complain about not having body armor.
* except for those troops that complain about driving around in unarmored humvees
Yeah, well, it's taking them long enough. For chrissake. The insulated guys--the well-off retirees, the folks whose kids are outta college--should have been SCREAMING some time ago.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:31 pmYou probably won't see this interview in prime time on FAUX News. I agree with #7 WC, its kind of like a traffic cop at the end of the month. They are just trying to fill a quota of "lefty" airtime.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:32 pmjust for reference, how many retired or active generals ARE there? have we now reached a significant percentage?
April 24th, 2006 at 3:33 pmI have heard figures of a 1,000 or more marc, so no I don't think we have reached significant portion. However if you were too look over how many were active duty recently, or have fought in conflicts between 1990-2006 you might get a better number.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:35 pmI'm a retired mid-level noncommissioned officer, and I agree with Gen. Van Riper, except that I wouldn't have appointed Rumsfeld SecDef in the first place.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:36 pmNotice the crawler across the bottom of the screen capture, "Three people get caught in cesspool"... would that be Bush, Cheney and Rice?
April 24th, 2006 at 3:37 pm#5 - GSD, they are indeed a little predictable aren't they? I thought I was reading an IRI post until I saw your alias. Thanks for the laugh - Q
April 24th, 2006 at 3:40 pm#16
April 24th, 2006 at 3:41 pmSouthern Tier?
The GOP is actually setting up Rumsfeld to be the fall guy for the failures of the entire administration, and the entire party. Don't be distracted, Rumsfeld acts at the behest and with the approval of the president. If his leadership of the military is incompetent, it is because his boss wills it so. The buck stops with Bush, not Rumsfeld, and not Cheney. Keep your eyes on the prize...
April 24th, 2006 at 3:45 pmPaul Van Riper is the latest in a long line of Marines who showed that he can out-think the best of the rest. Check out his role in the Millenium Challenge -- if Saddam had had him running his military, Bush would have been stopped before he had a chance to land any troops.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:47 pmMarc- there's thousands (8k, maybe?). The people who use that excuse, however, fail to note that most, if not all, of the ones speaking up were actively involve in a senior capacity in this or recent conflicts.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:50 pmwhat amazes me most is how many ex oops former marines (there's no such thing as an ex-marine) are on this bandwagon. semper fi and then indict impeach and replace all incumbents come november.................
April 24th, 2006 at 3:53 pmSo, when the king says load up the boats and planes for Iran. Will the military say no sir, no more wars for you? No, they will march off just like all legions for the past 6,000 years. It's one thing to protest when you're retired, and an entirely different thing to protest and refuse when you're part of the machine. It would be interesting to see the military response if this lunatic proposed nuclear options, I doubt there would be push back.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:56 pmI think somebody at Fox had another look at 'Good Night & Good Luck' or something. And realized, you can smear just about everybody, and it'll be alright with your hardcore flag-waving base, but smear the military and you lose even that. They can hear Joseph Welsh in their heads...'at long last.'
April 24th, 2006 at 3:58 pmmost, if not all, of the ones speaking up were actively involve in a senior capacity in this or recent conflicts.
Comment by Sidd Finch — April 24, 2006 @ 3:50 pm
If by actively involved you mean making suggestions that were ignored - than yes they were actively involved.
April 24th, 2006 at 3:59 pmLet the generals fire away. Rumsfeld is the table on which Bush sits. Each general is a leg of that table. Get the picture?
April 24th, 2006 at 4:03 pmFox News wants to save the sinking ship of the GOP-led congress. They'll do anything to save it, including sacrificing Rumsfeld.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:03 pmWe don't need generals to tell us that Rumsfeld is out of his league. Rumsfeld like his boss, Bush, is all bluster & tough talk. In the brains department, they lack the brilliant strategic mind of a Patton or MacArthur. Rumsfeld has fantasies of being a "brilliant military mind". All the neocon hawks do. However, we must remember that Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush have nver seen combat - so what do these idiots know? They should have listened to Shinseki before the invasion.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:06 pmI am truely afraid to be an American. Our "leaders" do not care about those outside the circle. Something is going to happen on our land again, and that only makes the fear increase.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:06 pmLet the generals fire away. Rumsfeld is the table on which Bush sits. Each general is a leg of that table. Get the picture?
Comment by Cbond — April 24, 2006 @ 4:03 pm
Why does Bush sit on a table? Is he retarded or something?
No! I don't get the picture. Your analogy couldn't have been any crappier if Bush would have come up with it himself... well on second thought - maybe it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:09 pm#31 - GWB would have done much worse. :)
April 24th, 2006 at 4:13 pmRumsfeld was buddy-buddy with Saddam
and we all know it.He was a Navy pilot for 3 years
and never saw combat.
He should have listened to his generals and never did
He should go.The military deserves better.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:15 pmI hear the voices.......
April 24th, 2006 at 4:16 pmCompletely off topic, but since when was the dancing guy from the Six Flkags commercials a friggin' General?
April 24th, 2006 at 4:17 pm#27 - I think I know where you're going with your analogy.
When enough generals (or legs) add their voice to the rising chorus of "failure", eventually Pres. Bush will fall down, and take Sec. Rumsfeld with him. Right?
April 24th, 2006 at 4:21 pm# 5 - work of genius.
we should keep that up so the trolls have nothing left to type..
April 24th, 2006 at 4:25 pmthen they'll sit back and bitch and whine about how we stole they're job of posting nonsensical bullsh&*. just like they complain about how immigrants are stealing they're jobs.
[...] Amid increasing chatter about Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld stepping down - including the three four five six seven eight generals who have publicly called for his resignation in recent weeks - the question becomes: Who’s next? [...]
April 24th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThis is old news. Like Zinni, another general covering his ass for his failures fighting Iraq in the 90's.
"Gen. Zinni is a friend; he's a close neighbor. We fish almost every weekend together. We've been compatriots for a number of years."
April 24th, 2006 at 4:41 pm#35 - It's the General's next career.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:48 pmIck, that Six Flags guy gives me the creeps.
When I was a little girl. the funny looking man standing on the street corner with the sign that read, "The end is near." was a joke. I am now wondering if all the crazy people have been the sane people all along. Perhaps the real crazies are the people who run our country and those who are too lazy to do anything about it but wine, complain and blog. It is the crazies who have enpowered the crazies.
I am starting to believe that the end of life as we know it in the US is very near and that we all deserve what we get.
Anyone who wants thier country back may have to prepare themselves to take it back. Blogging ain't going do it.
Perhaps the Internet has made us the lazy rascals we really are. In the 80's it was the truckers who saved our butts when the oil went up. When the oil went up in the 90's people were ready to burn the White House down. The Administration went into the reserves and it came back down (and I don't want to hear anyone say the price of gas in European countries has always been higher than ours. Do you know that the drive? In Germany, their recreational vehicles are about as big as our SUVs).
I believe oil is going to be the least of our problems. This country is now broke, our military is spread way to thin (and no one is signing up to replace the ones who are leaving--or getting killed), the World hates us, and our leaders are just truly a bunch of idiots who spend more time telling us what they want us to think that doing anything about the problems THEY have caused.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:53 pmOur number one goal should be to get the rigged voting machines out of the elections or all this hubub will be just entertainment!!!
April 24th, 2006 at 4:55 pmSpeaking of Fox news, I've been spot-checking their Web site over the past few weeks looking for any good news out of Iraq. You know, the kind of events that Bush and his followers say are happening but hardly ever get reported by the MSM. So I figure that if anyone would be reporting the good news, it would be Fox.
I'm now up to 6 reviews of their main homepage over the last 4.5 weeks. Result? Not one good news story out of Iraq.
Stay tuned for the next update.
April 24th, 2006 at 4:57 pmA friend of my daughters is graduating this year. For as long as he can remember, his goal has been to join the marines. He is now going to college instead. I feel very sad for him as he wanted this very badly. However, I am happy he realized that the probability of his returning in a body bag over a war that we should not be in is very high.
I pray more kids feel this way.
April 24th, 2006 at 5:02 pmI hear Bill Kristol, Ueber-New-Con calling for Rumsfeld resignation. But his ulterior motive is that in order to start a war with Iran we need another defense secretary. The populace might not agree with another war drags on and credibility in the armed forces sinks low.
April 24th, 2006 at 5:08 pmThat's why I believe Fox is drumming for Rumsfeld release. The radical right wants to start another war, with Iran, before Bush leaves office. Another president will not be so malleable, so easily conned with the religious hokus-pokus of a second coming of Christ and the end of the world.
I pray more kids feel this way.
Comment by Jules — April 24, 2006 @ 5:02 pm
I have one who is going to college instead of Iraq, to train to be an officer. Very relieved. Sad though how many won't or can't go in another direction and will wind up in that tragic war.
I have an interview next week for a position in the county where I went to school to teach architecture. They started this new program with one of the local technical colleges that will let kids start learning about their prospective careers in 11th and 12th grade. Doesn't require certification or Praxis exams because it's actually a college position. Keep your fingers crossed for me. I think it's probably this or go back to the profession for a year to afford college... And I really don't want to go back.
April 24th, 2006 at 5:12 pmIt’s one thing to protest when you’re retired, and an entirely different thing to protest and refuse when you’re part of the machine.
Comment by David B — April 24, 2006 @ 3:56 pm
Indeed.
For those who question this thinking, I offer an analogy of sorts. For 13 years I worked in the customer service field, placing orders for Sears catalog customers in the early 1990's and most recently providing tech support for several Internet providers. Over the years I talked to thousands of consumers all across the country. For anyone who has ever performed this kind of work, you know that on average you get many more complaints than compliments about the company you are working for.
If you value your job, and the money and security and benefits that come along with it, one thing you never, EVER do is agree with the customer when they are trashing your company. Nor do you publicly volunteer any information that will portray the company in a negative light. If you do, and are caught doing it, you won't be cleaning out your desk. Your supervisor will. After you've been escorted out the front door.
Now if you do agree that there is something wrong with the way things are going, then in most cases you were free to bring it to management's attention. Only thing is, if you suggested a remedy was in order or offered a different viewpoint, in many cases your concerns were noted and ignored.
The same goes for these generals while they are still working for the government. If you don't understand that, well, then I can't help you.
April 24th, 2006 at 5:13 pmBest of luck unbelievable
April 24th, 2006 at 5:14 pmFox and Peter Churnin are finally acknowledging that the audience has turned on Bush. The war is too unpopular to keep their ratings up anymore, they're losing audience share points everyday. Imagine when they discover what Frank Capra knew and proved decades ago--that progressive ideals are more profitable than conservative tales of fear-mongering. "FOX NEWS--Progressive & Inclusive" . . . film at eleven.
John Thomas Ellis
April 24th, 2006 at 5:17 pmBest of luck unbelievable
Comment by Krazny — April 24, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
Thanks! You're so sweet! :)
April 24th, 2006 at 5:17 pmUnbelieveable - I know you will be happy teaching so I hope you get that position. I have thought a lot about going back to school but I really think I have found my bliss.
Alt cert is tough. I studied my ass off my first year teaching. Once it was over, I was the happiest individual alive!
My old school offered me a position teaching Geometry. That is right up your alley, have you ever thought about teaching math. I really like geometry, but I have always been slightly strange, that is why I was a tax attorney - love that code!
April 24th, 2006 at 5:19 pmBest of luck unbelievable
Comment by Krazny — April 24, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
Ditto!
April 24th, 2006 at 5:20 pmGood luck on your job interview, unbelievable. I feel better knowing there are people like you who want to teach the youth of today.
April 24th, 2006 at 5:31 pm#46 - Good luck, Salma!
April 24th, 2006 at 5:33 pm#2 and #4
April 24th, 2006 at 5:47 pmI, too, think that Fox airing of this latest by a retired general is more a reflection of their greed. They are savvy media people who can see which side their bread is buttered. They will continue to support their Fuhrer because it is still profitable (in more ways than one), but when the tide is so strong that they can no longer do so, they will show more of these interviews and hope to ingratiate themselves to the middle of the roaders. Fox has no honor or integrity; they are propagandists and panderers -- for now, these interviews will pop in amid the bushit of Fox, but they are merely looking out for themselves.
Good luck, Unbelievable! We'll keep our fingers crossed for you!
April 24th, 2006 at 5:54 pmA good general but the Repubs will swift boat him > call him baldy or something > lol.
April 24th, 2006 at 5:58 pmI think it is interesting to see how long it has taken the dissatisfaction with Rumsfeld to work its way up to the top. In July of 2003, frustrated with having their tour in Iraq extended over and over, a group of soldiers from the 3rd Infantry were asked what they would ask Rumsfeld if he were here.
Two and a half years later, this dissatisfaction has worked its way up to the top. Good leaders look out for their troops. The troops will always gripe, but when admisistrative incompetence adversely affects morale and the commanders in the field are powerless to change these conditions because it comes from above, all they can do is suck it up and tell the troops to quit their bitchin'. But once they are no longer in the chain of command, then they can make their feelings known publicly. And they would be betraying the men who served under their command if they did not.
April 24th, 2006 at 6:07 pmThe military gets trillions of dollars of our tax money. They have the largest military budget in the world, equal to ALL the other countries in the world COMBINED.
The military corporate elite have long rung this country.
Now they're just maneuvering to get rid of the show that we actually have a democracy.
Bush was not elected.
Now the military is just putting the final nail in the coffin of our elected executive branch by removing his power.
A coup d'etat has been positioning itself for years. This is just the final act.
April 24th, 2006 at 6:14 pmThe military gets trillions of dollars of our tax money. They have the largest military budget in the world, equal to ALL the other countries in the world COMBINED.
The military corporate elite have long rung this country.
Now they're just maneuvering to get rid of the show that we actually have a democracy.
Bush was not elected.
A coup d'etat has been positioning itself for years. This is just the final act.
April 24th, 2006 at 6:14 pmLet the American Military family members ash Bush the questions while he's at the podium. Stop the lies. Bring our men and women home!
April 24th, 2006 at 6:15 pm[...] C’est Fox News qui rapporte l’info (vidéo chez Think Progress). [...]
April 24th, 2006 at 6:31 pmI completely agree with these comments. I think too that, if you cut the legs of the table (Rumsfeld) where Bush has sat, the two will fall down. In your country there is no democracy. You have lost your freedom and your richness beacause of a group of greedy, incompetent and bad people. In Italy we think that Bush is a friend of Satana.
April 24th, 2006 at 6:56 pmAsk aloud for their impeachment next saturday. Get rid of these barbarian.
[...] Think Progress (with video) Fox News is reporting an eighth general has called for Rumsfeld’s resignation. Ret. Marine General Paul Van Riper said he constantly talks with many active duty and retired senior officers who share his feelings that Secretary Rumsfeld has not fought the Iraq war competently. He told Fox that Rumsfeld has run the Pentagon through intimidation and that a change in leadership is needed. If this leader is not capable of doing it, now going in excess of five years, has not demonstrated he is, then perhaps it is time to find a new one. If I was the president, I would have relieved him three years ago. [...]
April 24th, 2006 at 8:13 pmunbelievable,
April 24th, 2006 at 8:23 pmAdd my name to those wishing you good luck.
Maybe he can work on the english subjunctive while bitching abt Rumsfeld's inadequate post war strategy. That would help. Maybe.
April 24th, 2006 at 8:32 pmunbelievable
April 24th, 2006 at 8:44 pmMany of us here are pulling for you. :)
WoW. Were up to 8 generals. wow.. 8 This one said "he constantly talks with many active duty and retired senior officers who share his feelings." Sounds as lame as "unnamed sources". I'm afraid that these generals seem awfully unmanly waiting until they are retired to open their mouths. Seems to me if they had the troops well being in mind they would call a press conference at the pentagon,state their complaint andlet the chips fall where they may. This is like yelling "oh yeah" after the bully took your lunch money then left.
April 24th, 2006 at 8:50 pmGood luck, Unbelievable! We’ll keep our fingers crossed for you!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — April 24, 2006 @ 5:54 pm
Add my name to those wishing you good luck.
Comment by Lora — April 24, 2006 @ 8:23 pm
Many of us here are pulling for you. :)
Comment by Marie — April 24, 2006 @ 8:44 pm
Thanks Jane, Lora and Marie! I do appreciate your kind wishes. ;)
April 24th, 2006 at 9:11 pmBefore this bogus war started, while Georgie was playing cowboy and branding the Iraquis as indians, I had a number of conversations with one of the loyal "GOP can do no wrong" suscribers. This was when Colin Powell went in front of the UN with all of that ancient film footage that was supposed to prove Hussein had WMDs. I told the Bush-lover it was obvious that none of what was being presented constituted any proof of WMDs whatsoever and that our credibility as a nation was at stake. I got the standard "GOP" reply that we've all been listening to the past 3 years "THEY'RE TERRORISTS! THIS IS PART OF THE WAR ON TERRORISM! THEY'RE GOING TO ATTACK US! THE UN IS A BUNCH OF WIMPS! BE AFFRAID! BE AFFRAID!" Well, our credibility is shot to hell, there never were any Iraqi plans to attack us and the wimpy UN can now set back and thumb their nose at us. I hope that most of these war mongering GOP fanatics, who by-the-way would never dream of sending their kids off to boot camp, have had the opportunity to talk to grief stricken families who have lost loved ones because of Bush and Co.'s incompetence.
April 24th, 2006 at 9:31 pmHey Folks,
until MOST of this country understands what really happened on 9/11, nothing else is going to make much sense. Ask questions-DEMAND answers!
Vietnam Veteran Against The Illegal And Immoral Wars In Afghanistan And Iraq
April 24th, 2006 at 9:34 pmYou know, this silliness keeps up much longer, we're going to get to the point where we'll hope for an active general to request the resignation of Rumsfled.
And Bush.
From the head of a column of tanks rolling down Pennsylvania Avenue.
April 24th, 2006 at 10:06 pmKenny, do you really believe that en who have faced death for a living are cowards because they didn't speak out while on active duty? You're obviously another chickenhawk civie. Man, what you guys don't know about the military!
Bottom line, it's against the UCMJ to speak publicly against your commander. And before you call these generals cowards for not speaking out anyway, think for a minute: these men spent their careers, their lives, obeying orders, and expecting that their orders be obeyed, without comment or question. Speaking out goes against everything for them, not because they are cowards but because the very fabric of the military is woven around obedience and discipline.
Instead of deriding them because you don't like what they're saying; think for a moment outside of your pampered, sheltered existence to what a life like that would be like and how much it would take, how bad these men must believe it has gotten, to make them break that lifetime of silence, discipline and obedience to speak out.
If you've never served under an exceptional officer, you have no idea what lengths they will go to for their country and for those who serve under them.
Contrast that to Bush, who is so cavilier about the lives of others that he actually contemplated sending American pilots up in disguised planes to try and trick Saddam into shooting them down so he could start his war.
And you criticize the generals???????
April 24th, 2006 at 10:32 pmI don't think Fox is changing it's spots. This is a tactical move in a bigger play. For the last little while FoxNews has been running a horrible series titled 'the price of freedom', which is justifying Iraq and also making the case for military involvement in Iran. The problem is that to look at Iraq and say we should go next door and repeat it in Iran is not resonating with anyone anywhere. Why is Iraq a mess? Why, its all Rummy's fault, of course! He made all the mistakes and all the generals hate him! Get rid of him, get someone better! Someone who won't make mistakes and who the generals love! Then we can go to town in Iran, safe in the knowledge that it will not be Iraq II because Rumsfeld isn't in charge.
I hope I'm wrong.
April 24th, 2006 at 10:53 pmGO RUMSFELD!!! ALL DEMOCRATS ARE UNAMERICAN COMMIES THAT ARE HATED BY GOD!
In 2008, Vote Cheney-Rumsfeld!!!!!!!!!
God wants these two wonderful men in office, and they may be complemented by Richard Perle at Defence and John Bolten at State! Long live America!
April 24th, 2006 at 11:50 pmHas it actually occurred to anyone that the Iraq War has now been going on for longer than the Korean War? If this were M*A*S*H, Hawkeye would still be sitting in the 4077th long after Goodbye, Farewell and Amen.
Secondly, AN AMERICAN sadly appears to be a typical Republican! I have these sort of people all over my state (Kansas). They call themselves 'pro-life', but are the first to send others off to war. I heard one say the other day that Iraqi lives are not worthy anyway......
April 24th, 2006 at 11:59 pmIf that damn phony Schwartskoff - or however he spells his sorry-ass name - had kept his mouth shut about 'help being on the way' six years ago, maybe we wouldn't have been in this mess.
April 25th, 2006 at 12:10 am[...] Eight Major Generals of the Military have called for Donald Rumsfeld to resign with a new man joining the chorus today, and apparently there are more waiting in the wings to speak out. Couple that with the Congressional Leadership warning Bush about Rumsfeld, and there’s a hefty opposition to Rummy. George Bush’s response to the staggering strength of the Temperance Movement is out, and it’s as follow: “I don’t do leadership based on opinion polls. I do it with my faith in God.” Yes, the President did say that today, and it’s a tad humorous, certainly when you put it into the current context. You see, I don’t know if anyone’s explained it to him, but Donald Rumsfeld isn’t God, George. Fire him. [...]
April 25th, 2006 at 1:05 am[...] Eight Major Generals of the Military have called for Donald Rumsfeld to resign with a new man joining the chorus today, and apparently there are more waiting in the wings to speak out. Couple that with the Congressional Leadership warning Bush about Rumsfeld, and there’s a hefty opposition to Rummy. George Bush’s response to the staggering strength of the Temperance Movement is out, and it’s as follow: “I don’t do leadership based on opinion polls. I do it with my faith in God.” Yes, the President did say that today, and it’s a tad humorous, certainly when you put it into the current context. You see, I don’t know if anyone’s explained it to him, but Donald Rumsfeld isn’t God, George. Fire him. [...]
April 25th, 2006 at 1:14 amBush can't fire or ask Rummy to resign, because Cheney and his pal Rum-drinker run the Regime and Dubya is just their stooge-dummy frontman! Bush Baby even has to ask Condi Rice if he can take a bathroom break at the UN > lol.
April 25th, 2006 at 1:35 amWhere are all the Air Force Generals and Navy Admirals in all this? Surely some of them must have an opinion on Rumsfield, in addition to the Army and Marine Corps Generals. I have only heard one Air Force retired General say anything, and he supported Rumsfield. Could the groundpounders be mad because Rumsfield cut the number of Army and Marine Corps troops, looking for a lighter faster, more lethal force? That move also probably cut out the need for a lot of generals and other high ranking officers.
Oliver North had a good comment. If, as a high ranking officer, you disagree with what you are being asked to do, register your complaint with your commander, and if ignored, you have two choices: 1) Suck it up and do as you are told, or 2) Salute snappily and retire. Sounds like good advice to me.
April 25th, 2006 at 2:53 amIt's pretty obvious that these retired generals are also trying to get out from under Rumsfeld's warcrimes.
April 25th, 2006 at 4:34 amOliver North is a CRIMINAL. If you are an officer, you have taken an oath to protect the Constitution. North never figured that out -- he went to work for an illegal conspiracy and told the Congress fat wet LIES. So he can STFU -- he may have been pardoned by his co-conspirators, but he is disgraced and branded, just like Rumsfeld, who should hang for his warcrimes.
April 25th, 2006 at 4:40 amwhat all this really reveals is the vast scope of the disaster that is iraq. the generals, the cia and pundits like bucky and fukayma are running as far and as fast as they can from blame. iraq is such a massive strategic blunder that those who normally stand steadfastly behind projection of american power are falling over themselves to avoid accountability.
April 25th, 2006 at 7:23 amI thought I'd add a "corrupt establishment update"
"WASHINGTON (AP) — The top Democrat on the House ethics committee agreed Friday to leave the panel to defend his financial conduct and ease the political burden on a party that has made Republican corruption a major campaign theme. "
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-04-21-mollohan_x.htm
Enjoy.
April 25th, 2006 at 7:25 amUnbelievable,
Good Luck. I've been teaching for almost ten years now. The only thing more satisfying is raising my own kids.
April 25th, 2006 at 7:30 amGood Luck. I’ve been teaching for almost ten years now. The only thing more satisfying is raising my own kids.
Comment by troll — April 25, 2006 @ 7:30 am
Thanks troll. What do you teach?
April 25th, 2006 at 7:53 amdiet wrote:
This general is certainly not leftist. As none of the generals are. This one, in the FOX interview, explicitly said this isn't some "anti-war" thing. He said Rumsfeld needs to be replaced so we can stay the course better.
Don't get me wrong. Rumsfeld should go. Not just resign, but be clapped in irons. But it's good to remeber the Generals aren't in the same camp as many of us.
April 25th, 2006 at 8:45 amI throw my lot in with Mat bors. I will agree that the outspokenness of the officer corps is unprecedented for many reasons already cited. It goes against everything these men have based their lives on, but we should not confuse their castigation of Rumsfield's tactics and management style as "anti-war".
Since FOX "News" is getting behind this story and McCain has been re-casting the former Soviet Union as "slacking" in democratic standards we should prepare ourselves for the neo-cons to re-energize their "base" by invoking a MORE militaristic approach to diplomatic issues.
April 25th, 2006 at 10:34 amRead "blink" chapter IV to get a background on this guy. He's a helluva soldier.
April 25th, 2006 at 11:13 amAn American is our typical mindless Bush lover who thinks God voted Bush into office. Too funny, if your god wants a war mongering, lying murderer as the president, then f**k your god and everyone who looks like her.
April 25th, 2006 at 11:29 am#81 - the USAF and USN have had very limited involvement overall with what has been happening on the ground. The brunt of the incompetence of the Bushwacked admin had been borne by the USMC and Army (& Army Ntl Guard). If the other branches do start to speak out, it's time for the rats to exist the ocean liner cause that baby is going down!
April 25th, 2006 at 1:05 pmHere let me fill you in on this guy. He’s a coward, a traitor, a Clintonista, a partisan Democrat, he gave money to Tom Daschle and Ted Kennedy and Joseph Stalin, he is gay, he’s a hack
WHY IS IT ALWAYS A SEXUAL THING WITH REPUBLICONS? I GUESS THEY FORGET ABOUT PRESCOTT BUSH AND HITLER. BIN LADEN HAS BEEN CAUGHT RIGHT? NO BUSH AS EVER DONE BIZ WITH A BIN LADEN RIGHT?
FOX NEWS IS JUST TRYING TO GET SOME ADS SOLD. WITH THE PRESIDENT AT 32% ITS NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT THAT MOST DONT SUPPORT BUSHIE.
April 25th, 2006 at 1:16 pmHere let me fill you in on this guy. He’s a coward, a traitor, a Clintonista, a partisan Democrat, he gave money to Tom Daschle and Ted Kennedy and Joseph Stalin, he is gay, he’s a hack
WHY IS IT ALWAYS A SEXUAL THING WITH REPUBLICONS? I GUESS THEY FORGET ABOUT PRESCOTT BUSH AND HITLER. BIN LADEN HAS BEEN CAUGHT RIGHT? NO BUSH AS EVER DONE BIZ WITH A BIN LADEN RIGHT?
FOX NEWS IS JUST TRYING TO GET SOME ADS SOLD. WITH THE PRESIDENT AT 32% ITS NOT HARD TO FIGURE OUT THAT MOST DONT SUPPORT BUSHIE.
April 25th, 2006 at 1:16 pmSo now we have reached the point where one-tenth of one percent of retired flay officers have made statements -- all bitter because, "The other guys got the promotions and book deals, and all I got an invitation to turn in my reitrements papers." Funny, but I don't remember retired generals ever being polled by the mediaabout anything during the Clinton era.
April 25th, 2006 at 1:39 pmWhy dont you all send al qaeda a check and actually help them upfront instead of behind the scenes. Check your history, presidents during war time have always more leeway and authority than during peace time. And if you think he lied about the war then most of the democrats on the hill should be impeached as well. Did you ever see Kerry before the election talk about more needs to be done to get rid of Saddam, because he is more of a threat then we realize. That is what he said. And as far as fox news, do you think they are the number one news station on the air for a reason. Get out of the big city and you will realize how far out there you people are. Micheal moore is a wacko and he is all yours.
April 25th, 2006 at 3:52 pmSo we shouldnt be in Afghanistan either. Lets send all of the radicals that want to kill us flowers, that will make it ok. give me a break. Saddam was a bully that financed terrorists and tried to kill our president and he had to be taken care of. Those are facts!
until MOST of this country understands what really happened on 9/11, nothing else is going to make much sense. Ask questions-DEMAND answers!
Vietnam Veteran Against The Illegal And Immoral Wars In Afghanistan And Iraq
Comment by paul G. (Jerry) Starssburg — April 24, 2006 @ 9:34 pm
April 25th, 2006 at 3:58 pmKeith, you are 100% correct. The Democrats believed George Bush's lies, like the majority of Americans. Including that Saddam is more of a threat than we realize. God forbid we believe our president, right?!? Now the majority of Americans (including conservatives) and the Democrats in the Senate realize that Bush and his circle of miscreants lied to all of us so he could start his 'war on terror'. Even Colin Powell has come out publicly and stated the intelligence Bush used to manipulate the people was a mistake. Do yourself a favor, keep believing the lies, stay ignorant and go back to sleep. Believe everything you’re told and be herded with the rest of the sheep. Limbaugh is a drug addicted and he is all yours. By the way, the name of this website is thinkprogress, something you obviously can not do on your own.
April 25th, 2006 at 4:14 pmIf you check the facts these senators and represenativew were saying these things way before bush took office. I know you would like to change history flipper but that is the facts. thinkliberal shouldnt be about rewriting history is should be about the facts. check your facts and learn something, or you know what, you will loose another election. Will you people ever learn, hatred is not a policy and no matter how much you say things that doesnt make it facts.
April 25th, 2006 at 4:24 pmHere some facts for you princess.
"The sanctions, as they are called, have succeeded over the last 10 years, not in deterring him from moving in that direction, but from actually being able to move in that direction. The Iraqi regime militarily remains fairly weak. It doesn't have the capacity it had 10 or 12 years ago. It has been contained. And even though we have no doubt in our mind that the Iraqi regime is pursuing programs to develop weapons of mass destruction -- chemical, biological and nuclear -- I think the best intelligence estimates suggest that they have not been terribly successful. There's no question that they have some stockpiles of some of these sorts of weapons still under their control, but they have not been able to break out, they have not been able to come out with the capacity to deliver these kinds of systems or to actually have these kinds of systems that is much beyond where they were 10 years ago."
Collin Powell 15 May 2001
"We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq..."
Collin Powell 24 February 2001
Go Back to Sleep
April 25th, 2006 at 4:43 pmSo princess, where are the facts that you are talking about? Was it.....
“The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa .â€
President Bush’s Jan. 28, 2003 State of the Union address
or was it this????
"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories."
Interview of George W. Bush by TVP, Poland May 29, 2003
Oh, yes....It was this...
"We know that he has the infrastructure, nuclear scientists to make a nuclear weapon, and we know that when the inspectors assessed this after the Gulf War, he was far, far closer to a crude nuclear device than anybody thought -- maybe six months from a crude nuclear device. The problem here is that there will always be some uncertainty about how quickly he can acquire nuclear weapons. But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."
Condoleezza Rice September 8 2002
Are these the facts I should be learning about?
April 25th, 2006 at 5:33 pmUnbelievable,
April 25th, 2006 at 5:44 pmI have struck out on my own this year and do private tutoring. I had taught social studies and religion in a private prep/boarding school before that. I also am not certified and have no desire to pursue it. Private schools often don't require certification if you have the credentials.
Here is the importat thing to remember about these retired generals. They served in comba and were passed over. Which means they are incompetent themselves. If they were true military leaders they would have earned the next star and shined.
April 25th, 2006 at 6:26 pmSanctions don't work and have never worked. Sanctions only strengthen tyrants. Think Cuba.
April 25th, 2006 at 6:28 pmIn the fall of 1999, I took a political science class with a Professor Hearlson who made us memorize the names of all of the rogue nations such as North Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, and Ect. However, the majority of his class lectures involved terrorism and the threat of Osama Bin Laden; infact he showed us several news interviews of Osama bin Laden where the translation included a barage of his various threats to kill all Americans and to be honest, most of us in the class just kind of laughed and thought nothing else of this guy or our crazy terror obsessed professor until 9/11/2001. As the second plane hit, I thought immediately of Osama Bin Laden. And interestingly enough, Osama Bin Laden was quickly tagged and confirmed as the master mind behind this attack. Isn'nt it amazing that a political science professor at a Junior college in Costa Mesa, Calif. knew about the danger of Bin Laden and Al Queda than our own government? Now here's the point of my story.....Maybe the attack was sappose to be allowed to happen. If you do not get what I am saying then please go see the movie, V for Vendetta. Finally, we need to quit fighting each other and start banding together because our Nation is in serious trouble----this administration is seriously thinking about invading another country and possibly considering the use of nuclear weapons.
April 25th, 2006 at 8:59 pmA reasonable assessment. If I were a military commander, I'd like to be regarded as an expert in my field when I came in to talk to my civilian boss. And if my civilian boss were more aggressive and militaristic than me and my coleagues, I'd have to think twice aboutwhat American democracy was coming to. And if my civilian, but overly militaristic boss chided the cautious for their caution, I'd begin to have dobuts about his wisdom. And if others got fired for providing factual evidence that my bosses's assessments were misguided, I begin to get worried.
What we have is exactly the scenario that General Van Riper has suggested -- a SECDEF more militaristic than his military leaders, more jingoistically ideological than any flag officer, and unwilling to listen to facts.
What would you do? If you were a senior officer, directly reporting to that SECDEF and your service secretary, you'd lay low until retirement, do your best to work within the system, and then when the time was right, retire, and complain. That's what all of these fine leaders have done.
Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Condi and Dubya were all ideologues trying to prove a point despite the best advice of their military and intelligence community experts. Maybe they, with the collective military and intelligence analysis experience of a gnat, knew better than the life long servants who specialized in the fields of military operational art and international intelligence analysis, but they could have at least paused to consider that these life-long servants had some comments worth considering.
April 25th, 2006 at 9:24 pmElaine -- The world knew that UBL was making a major effort toattack the USA and americans. The 1993 WTC bonbings proved that, as did the Arabian Khobar Towers bombing, and the attacks on the embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, and on the US Cole.
So the surprising (and annoying thing) is that so few people were aware of UBL before 9/11. And more shocking is taht this administration ignored al of the warnings to pursue some dream about Saddam's threat.
It is scary that so few people unnderstand the mistakes this administration made in the War on Terrorism.
April 25th, 2006 at 9:35 pmTo all the Bush lovers who have commented here, the facts are irrefutable. Rumsfeld not only stated to the American public and the world that we knew that Hussein had WMD, but also that "we knew where they were". BOTH STATEMENTS TOTALLY FALSE!! (Rummy was a bit over zealous in trying to please his boss!) Bush stated that Hussein was seeking nuclear material and aluminum tubes to manufacture nuclear weapons. AGAIN, FACTUALLY WRONG!! So the story changed. Well, we really went into Iraq to free the Iraqi people. Yeah, that's the ticket! (Georgie reallly wanted a piece of Hussein, it was all decided by inauguration day in '01). After the GOP controlled senate investigated 9/11 and intelligence regarding Iraqi, and found no link between Iraq and Al Qaida, no evidence of WMD and no real threat, Cheney still insisted that Bin Laden and Hussein were in bed together and that the WMD was cleverly hidden. (Dickie, when your own family tells you you're drunk, you better sit down!). Tom Ridge and his DOHS could never really tell us the reasons why the terrorism threat level would be mysteriously raised to " code orange" just when Americans were starting relax a bit. (Sorry Tommy, an increase in indecipherable gibberish doesn't cut it!). You see a pattern yet???? Is all of this just coincidence???? What was the real reason behind it all???? The answer is simple, to keep the American people fearful. Hitler used the same tactics on the German people as did Stalin on the Soviets. You want to control the masses? Keep them scared!! I'm sure they were all proud of themselves when everyone ran to the Depot and bought out all the plastic and duct tape a few years back just because Ridge said it was the thing to do. I could go on but I'm getting writer's cramp It's a pretty obvious picture though and it's all documented! The good part is that what goes around comes around. This administration is finally getting caught up in all of the evil lies and the entire GOP is getting a black eye as a result. This November should be an interesting month!
April 25th, 2006 at 10:09 pm[...] The Count is now up to 8. Eight retired generals have come forward and asked for Donald Rumsfeld’s resignation. All men feel that Rumsfeld has not fought the Iraq war competently. Ret. Marine General Paul Van Riper told Fox that Rumsfeld has run the Pentagon through intimidation and that a change in leadership is needed. If this leader is not capable of doing it, now going in excess of five years, has not demonstrated he is, then perhaps it is time to find a new one. If I was the president, I would have relieved him three years ago. [...]
April 25th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
April 26th, 2006 at 2:08 amRUMSFELD... the Evil Henry Fonda.
I am done with President Bush~~
~~In the year 2001 before 9-11 ~~ he deeply embarrassed me personally by profusely apologizing to the Chinese ~~ it was REALLY EMBARRASSING to see the two week ~~ rewriting of an apology to the damn Chinese ~~ but after 9-11 I realized President Bush had a good idea to go into Afghanistan with worldwide support ~~ continue our Iraq Policy ~~albeit without world support ~~ but since mid-2004 ~~I started to notice odd quirks and pathetic missteps ~~ Then right now I have serious problems ~~ our foreign policy mirrors that of Israel exactly ~~ North Korea is appeased (maybe because they are not threatening Israel) ~~ so all in all the below poll will give you an idea of what I think of President Bush at this moment:
Judging from his stances and actions, President Bush is actually: (pick 1)
April 26th, 2006 at 5:02 amPresident of Israel
President of Iraq
President of Mexico
President of Saudi Arabia, UAE and Kuwait
President of Spending
Vice President of the USA
How stupid are some of you people? Does the hatred get in you eyes or what? The majority of the democrats were saying the same thing before bush took office. Clinton stated that something needed to be done because of the threat iraq was to the us. Kerry, Gore etc. Quit playing politics. Both parties thought it. And by the way, Its not a bad thing that saddam is not longer in power. So you are saying he would try and kill an ex president but he would never do anything else. get a clue. He was abully on the block paid and supported terrorism. Get rid of the bully and eventually the block will have a chance to clean up. What will doing nothing do, oh ya 9/11! dumb asses
April 26th, 2006 at 10:06 amKeith, it's ok to be scared. The Patriot Act was put into place because of people like you, people who are willing to give up your freedoms for a little bit of security. You can blame the Dems as much as the Bushies all you want. Bottom line, the Dems were not using manipulated intelligence to win support for an unnecessary war. The Dems are not the ones leaking CIA agents and it is not the Dems who are spying on Americans. There is more then one reason this administration needs be thrown out of office. Bush took the largest federal surplus (thanks to Clinton) and turned it into the largest federal deficit IN AMERICAN HISTORY; he has never vetoed a spending bill and has spent more federal money THEN ALL OTHER PRESIDENTS COMBINED! He spent more in five years then all the previous presidents, over a 200 year span, all while giving tax breaks to the rich. Are you rich Keith? Maybe that's why your defend the cronies? Bush cuts military benefits while our soldiers are fighting his war, at the same time tells us we need to support our troops so we are not sending 'mixed signals'. WHAT??? Cutting their benefits while fighting a war is what sends mixed signals, paying an American contractor in Iraq 3-4 times as much money as the soldier protecting his ass; that sends mixed signals. By the way Keith, seems you have just as much hate in you eyes as the rest of us. The difference is, the hate in your eyes is blinding you.
April 26th, 2006 at 11:32 amAlso, we were not doing nothing. We had sanctions on Iraq and according to the president before 9-11, they were working.
Let me quote this again for you.
“We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions — the fact that the sanctions exist — not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein’s ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq…â€
April 26th, 2006 at 11:46 amCollin Powel 24 February 2001
Its to bad for you people that you dont realize that you lost the election. Just like you lose all the elections. The Iraq war was on the ballot the last presidential election and you no what? Bush Won! I know that you will talk about public opinion, well before the election the media talked about how much trouble the republican were in, but you no what the dems lost. Bush will not be impeached or anything else. so why waste your time. With you ideas of impeachment, lincoln and fdr would have both been impeach. Do you know why? Because in times of war they also did things for the betterment of the American people. And during those times there were people that complain then as well. There will always be radicals like you people. Sometime visit the midwest and find out what normal people think.
April 26th, 2006 at 12:44 pmYours in extremism
michael moore
I live in the Midwest and not all of us are delusional like yourself. In fact I live in the most conservative state in the nation and even the 'Bush lovers' of last year are now 'Bush haters', even in the most conservative state in the land. Giving up our freedoms IS NOT for the betterment of the American people. You maybe willing to give up your freedoms so you feel safer, but I (and a lot of other people on here) are not. The only reason Bush won the last election 1) people like you believed all the fear he was pumping into you and 2) John Kerry was a weak running mate. If the election was held today, Ronald McDonald could beat Bush because people are finally waking up to Bush's failed policies and realizing Bush has done nothing to better the everyday citizen of this nation and that anyone could do a better job then these money hungry, idealistic mis-guiders. When the Dems win the next election you'll be eating your words.
Yours in fundamentalism and Imperialism
April 26th, 2006 at 2:29 pmGeorge W. Bush
Wrong, Wrong and even more wrong! This is the same thing that was said before election from you wackos. And when a president is in his second term and cant be reelected this is what all two term presidents go through. People were absolutely sick of clinton by the time he was at this point. And he didnt have to deal with terrorism, natural disasters and the like. Unfortunately he thought the terrorism would all just go away much like some of you nutjobs.
April 26th, 2006 at 2:49 pmNow you people have bashed bush and everyone else. But you have no ideas for yourself. I know i will hear all kinds of slogans that should be done. Let all retreat back behind our borders and become isolationist and maybe everything will go away. Let tax as much as we can so we can redistribute the wealth. Thats called a socialistic state and most of you want that. Pro abortion, anti death penalty, no drilling yet we need more energy. Go ahead lets hear how everything is crap and we need to even everything out. Oh ya we have capitalism and democracy. That means you shold have to work for what you get and the republicans are in charge because they won an election. But instead of trying to do whats good for america you people just do what ever you can to make sure the republicans look bad. Keep hoping more soldiers die so that we fail in iraq and you can make your point.
nice job patriots
I live in the Midwest and not all of us are delusional like yourself. In fact I live in the most conservative state in the nation and even the ‘Bush lovers’ of last year are now ‘Bush haters’, even in the most conservative state in the land. Giving up our freedoms IS NOT for the betterment of the American people. You maybe willing to give up your freedoms so you feel safer, but I (and a lot of other people on here) are not. The only reason Bush won the last election 1) people like you believed all the fear he was pumping into you and 2) John Kerry was a weak running mate. If the election was held today, Ronald McDonald could beat Bush because people are finally waking up to Bush’s failed policies and realizing Bush has done nothing to better the everyday citizen of this nation and that anyone could do a better job then these money hungry, idealistic mis-guiders. When the Dems win the next election you’ll be eating your words.
Sorry to break it to you but Clinton Job approval rate was over 70 percent in December of 1998 (during his impeachment), well into his second term. If fact, it was higher then Regans approval, throughout his whole term. Try doing a little research before you just get on here and puke out what you want to believe. Nobody on this website wants our soldiers to die, its the policies you believe in that is killing our soldiers. Also, nobody on this post said anything about about pulling inside our own borders. If you remember correctly, Osama bin Laden was the man behind 9-11 and if Bush and his cronies would have stayed the original course we may have been able to capture and kill him by now. But no, for some reason Osama turned into Saddam, who was ablsolutly not a threat to us; it has been proven time and time again. No one said we wanted to become a socialist state. Why should only the rich receive the tax breaks? Being just an average person (which most of us are), don't you think the poor need tax breaks more than the rich do? Being a Patriot has nothing to do with being a sheep for your government. We are Patriots because we stand up for what we believe in, even if it is against what the Government wants. Now, before you go on another one of your misguided tiraids, do some research and get your facts straight.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/20/impeachment.poll/
April 26th, 2006 at 6:08 pmKeith... You keep talking about HATE but your choice of language seems to indicate you are on the SUPPLY end of that emotion. "Wackos", indeed I have a number of friends who are pro Bush, and the rhetoric is all the same: shallow and vehement.
April 26th, 2006 at 11:00 pmI am currently living overeas. I meet many, many traveling business people from around the globe, (including Mulsims, all of whom that I've met are wonderful, gentle and considerate), and one thing has been clear: George Bush & Co. have done more to destroy the credibility and respect for the United States than anything any "outside" force could have ever dreamed of accomplishing. We commonly consider Bin Laden and his ilk to be dirty scrounging fanatics, capable of only limited intelligence and vision. In actuality, Bush with his rigid, self-aggrandizing Shoot 'Em First policies has played right into BL's hands. Somewhere in a remote Pakistan village Bin Looney is chuckling gleefully at his incredible luck.
April 26th, 2006 at 11:09 pmI know bush is no jimmy carter. If you check your facts, as you want to say, WWI, Civil War and even WWII were wildly unpopular at the very beginning of those wars. And many people continued to say we need to retreat and make peace. Thank god our leaders didnt listen during those times as well. These are hard times and of course people wish we were in different situation. We could pretend like nothing is wrong like many in the democratic party have done for years. Or we could take care of the situation now. If we actually came together we could be successful in this war against extremism. but unfortunately some of you will do what ever you can to hurt our chances. Including trying to stop recruiters from doing their jobs and giving support at least sometimes.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:22 amActually after the Germans sunk the Lusitania during WWI, the public opinion wanted Wilson to declare war on Germany and after Pearl Harbor men were lined up around the block to be recruited. It was the same after 9-11 until BushCo spun the events of 9-11 into their personal conquest. WWI and WWII there were countries being invaded. Iraq didn't invade anybody. We had sanctions on Iraq, weapons inspectors never came close to finding WMD and BushCo used 9-11 to install fear to win support to invade Iraq, although Saddam never attacked us (or anyone) or had the means to do so. If you want to blame someone for us not coming together, blame BushCo. We all stood behind Bush after 9-11. It wasn't until he turned bin Laden into Saddam that the people started to divide. Bin Laden is still at large while we are at war with a country that had nothing to do with 9-11. And no one would be stopping recruiters from doing there job if they didn't feel like the military is being exploited. Militaries don't start wars, politicians do. I support our military, in fact I work for the military, but I do not support the exploitation of our soldiers.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:56 amYour an idiot? I dont support the war but i support the troops sure you do. History guy, during those wars mentioned public opinion was not all on the side of the war. Matter of fact before we entered world war I most people opposed the war, and not until our propaganda machine was put into swing did public opinion change. i'm tired of trying to educate idiots. i'm out!
April 27th, 2006 at 1:31 pmI work with soldiers everyday and many of them are friends of mine. I don't like seeing my friends being exploited for war profiteering. Believe in or not, the anti-war movement is hitting the ranks of military personal just as it is in the public. The soldiers are tired of being exploited too. I know many soldiers who will not be staying in the military because of BushCo. They are going to do their time and they are out. Like most Americans and I, they love their country but are tired of the same old rhetoric coming out of the White House and there is no end in site, in regards to Iraq. And as I stated before, Bush had public opinion on his side until he turned bin Laden in Saddam. You leaving this forum has nothing to do with educating us idiots, none of your arguing points proved anything except you are a true mislead person who denies facts and believes everything the cronies are telling you. If you support this war so much, why aren't you over there fighting it?
April 27th, 2006 at 2:00 pmFlipper:
I thought I would write one more email to maybe enlighten you. That shouldnt be real hard considering your narrow views of things. Why am I not fighting for something that i believe in so much. Well, that may have to do with my age, and this professor is a little to old to reenlist. My profession is teaching and we have professional soldiers that signed up to do just what they are doing. Fight and protect our liberties.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:27 pmYes, the people of Iraq are a real threat to our liberties aren't they? Bush is more of a threat to our liberties then Saddam or any other Iraqi. You are a teacher? What do you teach? How to become numb and allow your government to exploit you? Too old? I have friends in their 60's over there fighting, and they are smart enough to know that they are not over there to 'protect our liberties'. Keep believing it and it will come true, in your own mind.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:42 pmKeith "checking out", eh? Figures. When ridgid idealogues are confronted with truth, they throw epithets and retreat. I have a number of friends similar in rhetoric; usually a lot of bar-room, He-Man banter about "Nuking those Towel-heads" or something equally prehensile. Easy answers for the Duped Masses. The World is a LOT simpler to decipher in Black and White, eh? Geroge Bush (both I and II) spoon-fed the Right with all the correct Reagan knee-jerk stimuli: Wave the Flag, smile paternally, and sell 'em a bill of goods meant to eliminate dissent. I'm no Conspiracy Buff (I think Oswald probably really did it), but now I'm open for suggestions. Do you all know that a vast percentage of people in the Mideast (I was speaking to educated Egyptians one day recently) believe either Israel or the CIA (or both), were actually responsible for 9-11? Crazy?? I'm beginning to wonder...
April 28th, 2006 at 3:30 amHey "Neutral", check out the website from post #111. Crazy indeed. Like you, I was beginning to wonder too, and then this professor came to our library and gave a presentation about his fact gathering efforts concerning the events of 9-11. I couldn't stay because I'm in college and had to go finish a paper but I grabbed a flier on the way out and it had that web address on it. This is some really scary stuff to say the least. I wish a team of objective professionals would check this stuff out and let us all know if any of these theories hold any weight.
April 29th, 2006 at 11:50 pmI question the motive and the timing. If Abu Graib is an atrocity than the bridge hangings was a nuclear war.
We all know the anti American, anti military media is demon rat infested. I cancelled advertising in the Stars and Stripes because it resembled the New York communist slimes.
It is harder to brain wash battle hardened troops than Kerry poison ivy league college kids but demoncrats will try anyhing to win reinfection.
November 4th, 2006 at 12:49 pmOne nation under God.
Two under Bush
Three under Der Rumsfeld Marshall.
http://www.spiritofamericapartybook.com
http://www.pirateradio.com
The only thing that I can see as a bigger threat to this nation is all of the naysayers and armchair generals that wait until AFTER a scandal occurs and then only offer opinion of what they heard from second and third party news-babble.
If there is a problem with the way FOX is reporting the news, WHY aren't YOU providing a solution?
If those combatants that are IN A WAR ZONE, keeping the war OUT OU YOUR BACKYARD or PREVENTING YOU HAVING TO GO TO WAR are only getting THIS sort of support from you, do you actually think you deserve the title of AMERICAN?
You bitch and moan about people you have no personal knowledge of, yet you fail to step up and do a better job?
We claim to be so great, us Americans? WHY? Because when we are attacked or we face ANY sort of national crisis we all have the resources to run out and buy a bunch of T-Shirts and American Flags to wave all over the place until we get tired of waving them?
We do THIS to proclaim our patriotism?
We ALL have congressmen & senators. How many of you have actually made a scheduled appointment to discuss these issues and offer solution?
How many of you have gotten off your asses and taken a position on our southern border?
How many of you have lifted a finger to do ANYTHING in true support of this nation?
How many of you have actually EARNED your right to bitch?
Keep calling yourselves Americans as often as you can because you just gave away your House and Senate to those that are going to slowly remove your rights and enslave you.
You think I am kidding? Take a drive southbound on I-35, from Oklahoma City to Laredo, Texas. Count the number of "Highway Projects" that just happen to be going on, all at the same time.... Then play the "Connect the Dots Game"...
That's right, each and every construction project is just one more link to unnoticeably fall into place for the NAFTA Super Highway.
Once THAT is built, kiss your patriotic whiney asses good-bye because once the SPP goes into full bloom, (2010 - 2015), OUR United States Constitution will be evaporated as Canada, The United States and Mexico become the AMERICAN UNION...
That's right again! Once the borders drop, the Constitution ceases to exist because the Constitution was drafted for a country.... WITH BORDERS!
So, go on and keep sitting on your pompous asses and keep bitching! It will really accomplish a lot.
November 10th, 2006 at 2:20 am