“By the Numbers”:
By on Apr 26th, 2006 at 11:59 am
“By the Numbers”:
Read the “first comprehensive accounting of credible allegations of torture and abuse in U.S. custody in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo.”
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Detainee Abuse Charges…
Think Progress has just reported (from Human Rights Watch) that around 600 military and civilians have been involved with some sort of detainee abuse in either Iraq, Afghanistan, or Gitmo. Here some more info from Human Rights Watch: At least……
April 26th, 2006 at 12:09 pmYeah lets talk about abuse. Applying the Geneva convention to terrorists, Extendeing U.S. Constitutional rights to terrorists, the left in this country ingnoring terrorists atrocities and believing that Geaorge Bush is a terrorist…
April 26th, 2006 at 12:11 pm600…as Rumsfield said, this was the work of a few reckless individuals with no connection between them. I mean there must be a million or so military prison guards and interrogators? Right?
April 26th, 2006 at 12:13 pmHeh. If you’re gonna defeat them terrists, ya gotta become a terrist yerself. Kinda a interestin’ conundrum, ain’t it?
April 26th, 2006 at 12:15 pmSorry, guys. As a former military grunt myself, here’s what I have to say about that: that’s just tough shit.
I suffered more in going thru Boot Camp than 98% of those murderous pukes. And for the mistreatment of the 2% who may have been innocent and had a dog leash attached to their naked asses: just be glad you didn’t have my old DI kicking your ass. He’d give you something to really bitch about.
April 26th, 2006 at 12:17 pm#2 – If we, meaning the US, imprison individuals, no matter who they are or where they come from, they deserve some type of due process. Even if it is a hearing (a real one) on whether or not they should continue to be held.
In addition, how can we, the US, claim the upper hand over terrorists if we act no better than they do? How can we claim any sort of moral superiority? How can we say to the world that these people are wrong but look the other way at what we do?
The “left” does not ignore terrorists. As a matter of fact we have been asking Bush for the last 4 1/2 years why he is not going after Bin Laden. His answer, “I don’t think much about him.” SO please do not try to say the right is concerned with capturing terrorists because Bush is not. His only concern is putting more of our money into the hands of Haliburton.
Bush is a terrorist. He invaded a country without provocation after lying to the American people.
April 26th, 2006 at 12:21 pmSorry but bogus claims from detainees does not equal actual abuse. The truth be told, the left couldn’t really give a damn about those prisoners—the allegations are just a useful tool in your propaganda war against Bush.
April 26th, 2006 at 12:24 pmYeah #7 – that is why there are more indictments coming down against individuals for torturing prisoners. because nothing happend to those people.
The pictures were a joke, they weren’t real. They were just dresing up and having fun. Exactly how much are you being paid to repeat these tired old talking points?
April 26th, 2006 at 12:28 pmYou are damn right Antagonist, I don’t give a rats ass about the detainees, and yes its a great way to fight the propaganda war against Bush. I do give a rats ass about the US image abroad, and being hypocrites is not the image I want conveyed.
April 26th, 2006 at 12:29 pmTell us, then, Antagonist, was there or was there not actual abuse? One viable theory is that there was actual abuse and it wasn’t just a few “bad apples” but the result of a systematic policy. Let’s forget about the propaganda for we both know it’s flying around in every direction. How about we get to the truth of the affair. I’m prepared to accept whatever the truth is. Are you?
April 26th, 2006 at 12:32 pmAntagonist, you do realize that according to official DoD data about 34 detainees have been tortured to death in Iraq and Afghanistan, right?
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/dic/exec-sum.asp
April 26th, 2006 at 12:38 pmWhen you claim the right to “arrest” anyone, anywhere and hold them without notification or acknowledgement of detention. . . you have become a terrorist. This practice will not turn the world in support of America, but against America and Americans. It’s a failed policy, just as this mis-administration has failed at EVERYTHING except reducing taxes for the rich!
April 26th, 2006 at 12:42 pmSorry, guys. As a former military grunt myself, here’s what I have to say about that: that’s just tough shit.
I suffered more in going thru Boot Camp than 98% of those murderous pukes. And for the mistreatment of the 2% who may have been innocent and had a dog leash attached to their naked asses: just be glad you didn’t have my old DI kicking your ass. He’d give you something to really bitch about.
Comment by Leatherneck — April 26, 2006 @ 12:17 pm
Leatherneck – You make a good point!
The innocent 2% should be glad that they were imprisoned for no reason and then only kinda tortured… I’m sure you would have no problem if this happened to you… and really who would… I mean – it sounds kinda fun… you know – sorta like a sleep over just with more sodomy.
By the way – How many “grunts” were tortured to death by your DI?
April 26th, 2006 at 12:58 pmWe are at war.
April 26th, 2006 at 12:59 pmOur soldiers passions can run high–especially when provoked.
Shit happens–it’s no big deal.
Occasionally there’s an isolated incident where our soldiers actions are inappropriate and uncalled for.
No-one is condoning that.
The number of allegations of abuse are inflated.
Where’s the outcry about the insurgents and terrorists treatment of those they capture?
Who’s preaching human rights to them?
They can rape, torture, behead, light corpses on fire and drag them through the streets, and all the left has to say about it is that it’s Bush’s fault.
The democrats and the left have been poilticizing the war on terror for 4 1/2 years.
This is an election year, allegations of indictments and anti-war issues are going to start flying around at a frenzied pace.
Don’t believe everything you hear.
Readers of this thread may be interested in the upcoming meeting in Geneva on May 5th and 6th where the US is responding to the UN Committee Against Torture, ANOTHER treaty obligation of the US that Bush has decided to ignore.
Anyway, if you look through these two documents, one is the US reply to the original set of questions, and the other is the response of the UN CAT to the weak US reply…
April 26th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
i posted the wrong link in #15.
if you go to this page, find the US flag and click on the second US report CAT/C/48/Add.3/Rev.1 for the US reply.
and, right next to it is the UN CAT response which is quite good:
CAT/C/USA/Q/2
fcuk bush apologizes for the inconvenience…
peace
April 26th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#15 James, the link to the UN’s document doesn’t work…
April 26th, 2006 at 1:13 pmWhere’s the outcry about the insurgents and terrorists treatment of those they capture?
Comment by Antagonist — April 26, 2006 @ 12:59 pm
Dumbass – everyone is appalled by the way that the terrorists treat their prisoners – that is why reasonable people oppose us acting the same way… and then there’s people like you.
April 26th, 2006 at 1:19 pmThe innocent 2% should be glad that they were imprisoned for no reason and then only kinda tortured
That is one of the fundamental differences of a Liberal mindset and most others (not that I’m saying it’s a bad thing here). Centrists/Republicans/Libertarians understand that occassionally an innocent is going to suffer for the greater good (Death penalty, torture, poor building code, lack of funding in program A etc..) Liberals in general (Noted generalization here) would rather watch 1000 mass murdering psychos walk free to prevent 1 innocent man from dying (Not saying it’s a bad thing, just a different mindset).
April 26th, 2006 at 1:21 pm#18
Dumbass – everyone is appalled by the way that the terrorists treat their prisoners – that is why reasonable people oppose us acting the same way… and then there’s people like you.
Comment by G.W.SuperChrist
Name one incident where we have acted the same way dumbass.
April 26th, 2006 at 1:32 pmBTW what’s with the SuperChrist handle? Are you ignorantly trying to be cute, or are you intentionally being blasphemous?
I love how antagonist says progressives have been poilticizing the war for 4 1/2 years.
We were not the ones who needlessly raised the terror alerts during the year prior to the presidential elections.
We were not the ones who outed a COVERT CIA agent to cover up lies told to the American people.
We were not the ones who spied on Americans then refused to let the members of congress review the program to assure they were not abusing this program by spying on innocent Americans.
We were not the ones who gave no bid contracts to our friends at Haliburton just so they could do no or shoddy work at outrageous prices.
I could go on and on and on!
April 26th, 2006 at 1:39 pmit appears some people want examples of usa torture, still…
the eu parliament has spent months investigating us rendition flights through the eu for the purposes of torture.
well, here are a thousand flights filled with who know how many potentially innocents being transported for the sole purpose of torturing them to confess to things they know nothing about…
the us has created an industry out of torturing; it is time that everyone understands that fact.
from the article:
April 26th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Name one incident where we have acted the same way dumbass.
BTW what’s with the SuperChrist handle? Are you ignorantly trying to be cute, or are you intentionally being blasphemous?
Comment by Antagonist — April 26, 2006 @ 1:32 pm
See post # 11 for incidences of where we have acted the same way… or just look at Abu Ghraib pics.
As for being blasphemous – blasphemy is only for those small minded individuals that think that Jesus was something other than a dirtbag peasant that got exactly what was coming to him.
He challenged the greatest power in the world and they tortured and killed him… exactly what they were supposed to do right?
April 26th, 2006 at 1:48 pm#19 But it’s not the conservatives the ones who deffend the concept of “personal responsability”? So, following the concept, every error matters, and the ones commiting the mistake must be held responsible. Or the personal responsability is only for others?
April 26th, 2006 at 1:54 pm#21
Every item you listed as an example is a distorted view of reality. It’s truly amazing what you’re willing to believe. Try gathering information without wearing your tin-foil hat for a change.
April 26th, 2006 at 1:54 pm#25 – stop drinking the kool aid. I have been told logic and reality return in a matter of days.
April 26th, 2006 at 1:57 pm#23
In all my years I’ve never encountered anyone quite like you—human rights champion in one breath, and angry bitter God-hater in the next. Are you Bi-polar?
April 26th, 2006 at 2:06 pmIn all my years I’ve never encountered anyone quite like you—human rights champion in one breath, and angry bitter God-hater in the next. Are you Bi-polar?
Comment by Antagonist — April 26, 2006 @ 2:06 pm
Just using a little over the top rhetoric to point out an incredible contradiction in your way of thinking… a God fearing man that thinks that torture is good… hmmmmmmm?
Do you think that Jesus approves of your pro torture stance?
I’m guessing that with his little run in with the Romans that he’s probably not a big fan of torture.
Does it bother you that you are going against Jesus’ will?
Do You think that he will mind?
Do you think that this will come up when you stand before him?
April 26th, 2006 at 2:17 pmIt is amazing that someone condones torture on the one hand then accuses someone else of blasphamy.
No it isn’t. There is no bigger hypocrit than a republican!
April 26th, 2006 at 2:30 pm# 29 – Thank You Jules – I agree 100%
April 26th, 2006 at 2:34 pm#28
What do you know of Jesus’ will anyway? You can’t read the Old Testament without seeing that God frequently used one nation to judge another. They brutally killed eachother with swords, spears and arrows. Capital punishment was also implemented by God, and people were brutally stoned to death. There’s this whole justice side of God that liberals simply want to ignore, while they paint some limp-wristed all loving picture of Him. Pushing, shoving, name-calling, and water-boarding hardly constitutes as torture.
Do you think this little gem will come up when YOU stand before Him?
As for being blasphemous – blasphemy is only for those small minded individuals that think that Jesus was something other than a dirtbag peasant that got exactly what was coming to him.
He challenged the greatest power in the world and they tortured and killed him… exactly what they were supposed to do right?
April 26th, 2006 at 2:35 pmComment by G.W.SuperChrist
#31 – I am an atheist so I don’t really expect to stand before Jesus… but you do so maybe you better start worrying about your actions and not mine… besides I think Jesus would look more favorably upon an atheist that acted as he did than a so called Christian that rejected his teachings.
Oh – an regarding my knowledge of the bible – I do know that Jesus brought with him a new covenant that negated the old testament covenant that God had with Moses… I’m pretty sure he also spoke of peace and forgiveness and encouraged people to leave behind the vengeful ways of the past.
Damn… got you again Churchie!
April 26th, 2006 at 2:47 pmGW – aren’t you tired of these neocons using the bible to justify everything they do. I posted this before, but it suits this situation very well:
-I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because it always coincides with their desires. Susan B. Anthony
April 26th, 2006 at 2:53 pm#33
April 26th, 2006 at 2:59 pmI can tell by your so-called Bible knowledge that you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s also quite evident that you don’t mind making uninformed comments on every other subject as well. Just so you know—it is the height of ignorance to hold someone to a standard that you neither believe nor understand.
First, I never stated my beliefs.
Secondly, if you know so much about the bible please tell me in the new testament where God said it was right to murder or torture another human being?
Finally, it is the height of ignorance to state that torture and false imprisonment is acceptable under any circumstance. You choose to join the military. These people who are being wrongfully detained, and please do not show your ignorance yet again by trying to refute this as the pentagon released this yesterday, have not choosen this course.
April 26th, 2006 at 3:05 pm#35
Disregard my comments in #34—I meant to address SuperChrist.
BUT regarding your comments in#35 I seriously question the so-called credible allegations of abuse. Define abuse! Who decides whether the allegations are credible or not? You’re an idiot because you automatically believe this stuff. Why? Because you want to. If it makes George Bush look bad, or one of his policies look bad, or someone in his administration look bad then it simply must be true.
April 26th, 2006 at 3:22 pmI’ve been trying to post this, but it somehow doesn’t make it through…
From Human Rights Watch:
On their day off people would show up all the time. Everyone in camp knew if you wanted to work out your frustration you show up at the PUC tent. In a way it was sport. The cooks were all US soldiers. One day a sergeant shows up and tells a PUC to grab a pole. He told him to bend over and broke the guy’s leg with a mini Louisville Slugger that was a metal bat. He was the fucking cook. He shouldn’t be in with no PUCs. The PA came and said to keep him off the leg. Three days later they transported the PUC to Abu Ghraib. The Louisville Slugger [incident] happened around November 2003, certainly before Christmas.
April 26th, 2006 at 3:25 pmLeadership Failure – Firsthand Accounts of Torture of Iraqi Detainees by the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division
That’s funny. I am an idiot because I believe what I have seen in the pictures that have been released PROVING the abuse took place. Oh yeah, and there is that little matter of people actually being convicted of abusing prisoners. In addition to the CIA flying people to other countries to torture them.
Yeah boy, I guess you really got me there.
Then again, I could turn that around and say you are an idiot becuse you believe eveything that comes out of the mouth of your decider in chief even though there is a multitude of evidence that he is a liar. But I won’t cause it is obvious you are a sad and frightened little man who is knows your bible thumping party will lose in November. :)
April 26th, 2006 at 3:46 pmSorry if I come out a bit less then perfect on spelling and grammar in the previous post, but this one issue I feel strongly about.
April 26th, 2006 at 3:53 pmYou tell him (her/it), Jules! And I read over your list in #21 and I can’t find anything in it that didn’t really happen. I wonder why people on the right want to deny reality so much? Unfamiliar territory? I notice that he/she/it didn’t come back with any facts, just denied that what you said was true. Again, facts – unfamiliar territory.
April 26th, 2006 at 5:48 pmWayne – thanks – this has been a blast. I am almost sorry he left!
April 26th, 2006 at 6:51 pmAntagonist, you are a hypocrite. I love me some Jesus…and I love me some torture. Typical right wing scum.
April 26th, 2006 at 9:25 pmWhat do you know of Jesus’ will anyway? You can’t read the Old Testament
Comment by Antagonist — April 26, 2006 @ 2:35 pm
I can tell by your so-called Bible knowledge that you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
Comment by Antagonist — April 26, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
Jesus is soooooooo New Testament but you who read the bible knew that right?
April 26th, 2006 at 11:04 pmClif you are soooooooo katy.
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