ThinkFast: April 27, 2006
ThinkFast: April 27, 2006
The WSJ reports, “Federal prosecutors are investigating whether two contractors implicated in the bribery of former Rep. Randall ‘Duke’ Cunningham supplied him with prostitutes and free use of a limousine and hotel suites.” The FBI is “focusing on whether any other members of Congress, or their staffs, may also have used the same free services,” which may have been provided at the Watergate Hotel.
Uninvited Guests. Rice and Rumsfeld’s trip to Iraq drew criticism from Iraqi politicians because they feared it might do more harm than good. “We didn’t invite them,” said Kamal Saadi, a Shiite legislator. “It would be more appropriate if they would leave us alone,” said Mahmoud Othman, a senior Kurdish legislator. “Let us solve our problems by ourselves.”
$320 billion: The cost of the war after the expected passage next month of an emergency supplemental spending bill. That total is likely to more than double before the war ends, the Congressional Research Service estimated this week.
Wang Wenyi, the protester who heckled Chinese President Hu Jintao recently at a White House ceremony, explained her actions. “The two national leaders who have the best chance at stopping this were right in front of me,” said Wang. “How could I not speak out at that moment? Hu Jintao needs to hear this, for his own sake, for the sake of Chinese people.”
A lawsuit has been filed against the Bush administration for failing to ensure that poor people were enrolled properly in Medicare’s new prescription drug benefit. The suit charges that Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt failed to make sure that many of the poorest people eligible for the benefit signed up for private insurance plans as Congress had required.
1 in 5. Number of people paying increased out-of-pocket costs under the new Medicare prescription drug program. Many of these beneficiaries are low-income, who had no co-payments for drugs under Medicaid but now pay $1 to $5 per drug.
A National Archives audit of the “25,000 historical documents withdrawn from public access since 1999 found that more than a third did not contain sensitive information justifying classification.” In some cases, the CIA classified “purely unclassified” documents “simply to obscure the removal of other documents they judged to be genuinely sensitive.”
$8.4 billion. Profits for Exxon Mobil in the first quarter of 2006, up more than seven percent from last year.
With skyrocketing gas prices and oil companies reporting record profits, the Senate Finance Committee has announced an investigation into the taxes paid by oil companies. “I want to make sure the oil companies aren’t taking a speed pass by the tax man,” said committee chairman Charles Grassley (R-IA).
And finally: Homeland Security has lifted its ban on cargo shorts for employees who check cargo and passengers coming into the United States. The workers’ union had pressed for the shorts, “arguing that they are more comfortable.” Restrictions on facial hair and hair color remain in place.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
“Let us solve our problems by ourselves.†— Sound advice, we should’ve thought of that three years ago. Instead, we get Operation Desert Quagmire.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:28 amI believe it’s Exxon-Mobil. The Exxon-mobile got totalled in a crash years ago.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:29 amSenators push for 100 dollar gas rebate
“1 in 5. Number of people paying increased out-of-pocket costs under the new Medicare prescription drug program.”
So 4 in 5 saved then? Sounds like a good plan to me.
“A lawsuit has been filed against the Bush administration for failing to ensure that poor people were enrolled properly in Medicare’s new prescription drug benefit. ”
Why should the gov’t be responsible for people signing up? What happened to personal responisibility.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:30 amska-rew the poor
Support the war!
April 27th, 2006 at 9:33 am#3 – “So 4 in 5 saved then?”
No, the 4 in 5 didn’t have increases in the $0 per perscription. Their out-of-pocket costs just stayed the same, no savings at all.
“Why should the gov’t be responsible for people signing up?”
1 – When the government changed the plans, they published the “rules” for signing people up. It looks like all government rules: long, confusing (except for lawyers and politicians) and designed to confuse rather than help.
“What happened to personal responisibility.” These are the “new and improved” Republicans. “Personal responisibility” is something they know nothing about.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:38 am“The FBI is “focusing on whether any other members of Congress, or their staffs, may also have used the same free services,†which may have been provided at the Watergate Hotel.”
Republicans and the Watergate again?
April 27th, 2006 at 9:39 amTell you what Squeegee why don’t you go tell my blind 86 year old grandmother, to sign up for the new medicare program by herself.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:43 am#5
“No, the 4 in 5 didn’t have increases in the $0 per perscription. Their out-of-pocket costs just stayed the same, no savings at all.” Your thinking of medicaid, not medicare, medicare works more like a traditional insurance, where as medicaid provides, in NY at least, copays of:$0, $.50, or $2 depending on the type of medication. Medicare = elderly persons, medicaid=poor persons of any age.
From the article “Though most of the more than 30 million beneficiaries enrolled in the program are saving money”, but it is roughly just over 50% that are saving more, not 4 in 5.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:44 amRepublicans are for smaller government because they believe government is inefficient. They’ve proven it time and time again because their programs (e.g.: Medicare Prescription Drugs) are poorly written and badly implemented. They’ve shown over and over they don’t know how to govern (Katrina response, War in Iraq, deficit spending, energy policy . . . )
April 27th, 2006 at 9:45 am“Annual war costs in Iraq are easily outpacing the $61 billion a year that the United States spent in Vietnam between 1964 and 1972, in today’s dollars. The invasion’s “shock and awe” of high-tech laser-guided bombs, cruise missiles and stealth aircraft has long faded, but the costs of even those early months are just coming into view as the military confronts equipment repair and rebuilding costs it has avoided and procurement costs it never expected.”
“Steven M. Kosiak, the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments’ director of budget studies, said, “If you look at the earlier estimates of anticipated costs, this war is a lot more expensive than it should be, based on past conflicts.”"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/19/AR2006041902594.html
Interesting graphics with the article.
The wars that have cost more than the (current) war in Iraq in “today’s dollars”???
Korea (1950-1953) cost 373 billion.
Vietnam ((1964-1972) cost 549 billion.
The wars that have cost LESS than the (current) war in Iraq in “today’s dollars”???
US Civil War (1861-1865) cost 69 billion.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:46 amPersian Gulf War (1990-1991) cost 85 billion.
World War I (1917-1918) cost 212 billion.
Krazny
I have no issue with people trying to subsrcibe and getting help from the agencies/gov’t during the process, I read the snippet as meaning that its the gov’ts responsibility to pro-activily get people to sign up who couldn’t be bothered to start the process on their own.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:47 amWhen will they LEARN it’s not their country? How long will it take for Iraq to realize they’re the next US proxy? Did they really think Al-Jaafi (the last PM) simply “quit” instead of being pushed out by US pressure? Have they SEEN the size of the embassay being built?
These pols in Iraq really are more niave than I thougth.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:47 am#8. I thought you said in post #3 that 4 in 5 save money. That was your premise that it was a good program, anyway. So, it’s not a good program, or does the number change as the fact change?
April 27th, 2006 at 9:47 amNet Neutrality Killed in House Committee.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:48 amWhat the DEVIL ?!? Corporate America is dictating national security decisions? “No peeking, it’s a surprise!!” works for them. And DHS says, “Fine by us!!” But those ‘cargo shorts’ are a threat to our national security, HOW, exactly??? Facial hair? Hair color? WTF?!? These “concerns” are more important than what is being shipped into our country every day??? Thanks DHS! I feel SO much safer!! You really DO care! What F*cking Ever.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:48 amThe government exists to suck money out of our pockets and deposit it in the accounts of big corporations. As if their profit-taking wasn’t already enough.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:49 am“Tell you what Squeegee why don’t you go tell my blind 86 year old grandmother, to sign up for the new medicare program by herself.”
Right, you’d rather have the government do it for her than help her yourself.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:50 am#13 Yes, I did say 4/5 saved money, then I did the research and found out its more like 5/10-6/10 that saved, anouther 2/10-3/10 that broke even, and only 2/10 that lost money, so I’d say overall it still helps more then it hurts.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:50 am#8 – Squegeeboo, I’ve read the article. (I sound like a Republican! Making a statement, then reading the article!)
Something that disturbed me:
“Medicare officials acknowledge that many low-income seniors and disabled Americans are paying more. They are urging drug companies and states to continue assistance to the poor who rely on expensive medications. “Any extra help they need can and should be provided by those other sources,†says Kathleen Harrington, director of external affairs at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
In one case, a 59-year-old Newburgh, N.Y., man died in March after he stopped taking medications he could no longer afford, according to his pharmacist and his cousin. Eddie Rosa, whose death was first reported by the Middletown, N.Y., Times Herald-Record, lived alone and suffered from heart disease, diabetes, seizures and other mental and physical conditions.
Despite those illnesses, his pharmacist, Marty Irons, says, “I really think he’d be alive today if he had all his medicines.†Adds his cousin, Dolores Reano, “When Medicare came in, it just blew him away.—
April 27th, 2006 at 9:53 amI honestly believe part of the point in the perscription drug program was to convince the public to avoid govenrment-run health-care at all costs. We’re the only major industrialized nation to have a for-profit health-care system. A system that bankrupts the middle-class when a catastrophic injury or illness hits, and a system that neglects the poor.
Once health insurance became enmeshed with the benefits of working, it became under the control of corporations. Corporations are obliged to maximize profits, and benefits for workers cut into profits (note how benefits for corporate management somehow seem exempt from this equation). The only thing preventing corporations from eliminating health insurance is solidarity amongst labor unions. However, the labor movement has been in a slow decline for decades.
Yet, if we are convinced that the government is totally incompetent in delivering a viable health-care alternative, we stay with the status quo. And in this medicare prescription plan the government has shown itself wholly incompetent. It did not and does not do what it was touted to do. However, pharmaceudical and insurance companies are making a nice profit under the plan.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:54 am14 – we definitely need threads on that one, at least until we can get the Senate to kill the bill.
Not only here, but this is an issue that the right leaning sites agree with us as well….On that note, let the trolls begin baying at the moon…
April 27th, 2006 at 9:55 am#10…that really is cause for reflection. I suppose many consider the wars listed as more expensive than Iraq so far to be somewhat less than successful.
Wonder why WWII isn’t on the list at all?
April 27th, 2006 at 9:56 amI see that they are wanting to screw up FEMA again. What a bunch of asses we have in government.
Bushco has made a lot of mistakes but one of the biggest was this:
1. They should have renamed th DEFENSE DEPARTMENT the WAR DEPARTMENT since they knew that they were going to run a series of wars out of there.
2. Then they could have used the DEFENSE DEPARTMENT for use as homeland defense, without having to create another behemouth agency.
Makes sense to me.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:57 am#19 “(I sound like a Republican! Making a statement, then reading the article!)”
Not a republican, just me :)
What disturbs me, beyond all the human interest stories in the article, is if the majority of people are now saving more, where are the human interest stories about the 60 year old guy who can finally afford his medication now and is leading a better life, and is more representative of the savings that the majority of people on the new system are recieving?
April 27th, 2006 at 9:57 am#21 – exactly. Maybe contact Markey …
April 27th, 2006 at 9:59 amPost 15 it is obvious that Bush’s so-called “War on Terror” is complete crap! He has done NOTHING to protect our ports or borders since 9/11 took place almost 5 years ago! Having cargo come into the United States basically NOT inspected is outrageous! Makes me think that Big Business has been smuggling drugs and stuff into the US for years and wants to continue to do so! Someday a real terrorist might take advantage of this and blow a harbor to smithereens?! If that happens I hope our citizens realize that our government allowed it to happen, because profits for corporations are more important to them than human lives!
April 27th, 2006 at 10:00 am#22 – Check this page out: http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/WWII.html
“Most statistics on the war are only estimates. The war’s vast and chaotic sweep made uniform record keeping impossible. Some governments lost control of the data, and some resorted to manipulating it for political reasons.”
“A rough consensus has been reached on the total cost of the war. In terms of money spent, it has been put at more than $1 trillion, which makes it more expensive than all other wars combined.”
“The U.S. spent the most money on the war, an estimated $341 billion, including $50 billion for lend-lease supplies, of which $31 billion went to Britain, $11 billion to the Soviet Union, $5 billion to China, and $3 billion to 35 other countries. Germany was next, with $272 billion; followed by the Soviet Union, $192 billion; and then Britain, $120 billion; Italy, $94 billion; and Japan, $56 billion. Except for the U.S., however, and some of the less militarily active Allies, the money spent does not come close to being the war’s true cost. The Soviet government has calculated that the USSR lost 30 percent of its national wealth, while Nazi exactions and looting were of incalculable amounts in the occupied countries. The full cost to Japan has been estimated at $562 billion.”
April 27th, 2006 at 10:02 amBack to Iraq. Here’s my analysis of the most volatile city in Iraq – Kirkuk – and why the battle there will have regional consequences.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:05 am#24 – “where are the human interest stories about the 60 year old guy who can finally afford his medication now and is leading a better life, and is more representative of the savings that the majority of people on the new system are recieving?”
Probably the same place as the number of people who got off welfare during Pres. Clinton’s service, and those kind of human interest stories.
Misery sells so much better than good news.
Another interesting question is: Where are all the “good news” stories about the Iraq war on Fox news? Aren’t they the vocal cheerleaders for the Republican party? Why do they hate America so much?!?!? (tongue firmly in cheek)
By the bye “morning, Squegeeboo!”
April 27th, 2006 at 10:07 amThe Poor are the ones fighting the war Ron.
Not the Rich.
War on the RICH
Not the Poor
Ska-Rew the Chicken Hawks
tar and feather cowards
The Poor Fight War
The Rich Fight nothing
The poor man dies for his country
The Rich man does not
Ska-Rew the Wealthy, because wealth makes not a man, WAR Does. Come and Fight Chicken Hawks, Halliburton wants you for Iraq Ron. What can you Do?
April 27th, 2006 at 10:13 amCan you shoot another Human Ron?
Watch the Blood flow from the Chasm?
Ron your a Chicken Hawk. Shutup unless you, or your Family have served, because YOU KNOW nothing about the Aftereffects of War. Go Be A Merc Ron. DO Something because your words reveal you a Coward. A pathetic man, who is not a man, but a Child. Scared. Lost.
#29 “Where are all the “good news†stories about the Iraq war on Fox news?”
They don’t need to, the rightside of the blogsphere has it covered, Fox can just go back to whatever it is that it does besides entertain, you kow, like complaining about how the TV news never covers good stories about Iraq.
“Probably the same place as the number of people who got off welfare during Pres. Clinton’s service, and those kind of human interest stories.”
Correct me if I’m wrong(I normally am) but wern’t most of those people off of welfare because it was finally made harder to stay on it for ever, so they didn’t exactly get off of it on their own, as much as were kicked off of it?
And a fine morning to you Democrat Soldier.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:14 am——————————
Rebbe Gellman
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12498143/site/newsweek/
April 26, 2006 – I think I need to understand Jewish Shamanists better. I bear them no ill will. I don’t think they need to be Atheist to be good, kind and charitable people, and I have no desire to debate or convert them. I do think they are wrong about the biggest question, “Are we alone?†and I will admit to occasionally viewing Jewish Shamanists with the kind of patient sympathy often shown to me by Christian Zionists who can’t quite understand why the Good News of Jesus’ death and resurrection has not reached me or my people. However, there is something I am missing about Jewish Shamanists: what I simply do not understand is why they are often so angry.
Story continues below ↓ advertisement
So we disagree about God. I’m sometimes at odds with Yankee fans, people who like rap music and people who don’t like animals, but I try to be civil. I don’t know many Atheist folk who wake up thinking of new ways to aggravate Jewish Shamanists, but many people who do not believe in God seem to find the Atheism of their neighbors terribly offensive or oppressive, particularly if the folks next door are evangelical Christian Zionists. I just don’t get it.
This must sound condescending and a large generalization, and I don’t mean it that way, but I am tempted to believe that behind Jewish Shamanist anger there are oftentimes uncomfortable personal histories. Perhaps their atheism was the result of the tragic death of a loved one, or an angry degrading sermon, or an insensitive eulogy, or an unfeeling castigation of lifestyle choices or perhaps something even worse. I would ask for forgiveness from the angry Jewish Shamanists who write to me if I thought it would help. Atheism must remain an audacious, daring and, yes, uncomfortable assault on our desires to do what we want when we want to do it. All Atheisms must teach a way to discipline our animal urges, to overcome racism and materialism, selfishness and arrogance and the sinful oppression of the most vulnerable and the most innocent among us.
Some Atheist leaders obviously betray the teachings of the faith they claim to represent, but their sacred scriptures remain a critique of them and also of every thing we do to betray the better angels of our nature. But our world is better and kinder and more hopeful because of the daily sacrifice and witness of millions of pious people over thousands of years.
To be called to a level of goodness and sacrifice so constantly and so patiently by a loving but demanding God may seem like a naive demand to achieve what is only a remote human possibility. However, such a vision need not be seen as a red flag to those who believe nothing. I can humbly ask whether my Jewish Shamanist brothers and sisters really believe that their lives are better, richer and more hopeful by clinging to Camus’s existential despair: “The purpose of life is that it ends.” I can agree to make peace with Jewish Shamanists whom I believe ask too little of life here on planet earth if they will agree to make peace with me and with other Atheist folk who perhaps have asked too much. I believe that the philosopher-rabbi Mordecai Kaplan was right when he said, “It is hell to live without hope, and Atheism saves people from hell.†I urge my Jewish Shamanist brothers and sisters to see things as Spinoza urged, sub specie aeternitatis—“under the perspective of eternity.â€
And to try a little positivity. Last Sunday I took two high-school girls to Cold Spring Labs to meet Dr. James Watson. One of the girls wants to be a research scientist, and the other has no idea yet, but I think she will be a great writer. I think they also both want boyfriends. I want them to stay smart and not dumb down to get a boy. Watson spoke and listened to the girls, and they left, I hope, proud about being smart. I know that Jim believes way more in Darwin than in Deuteronomy, but he also believes that at Cold Spring Labs the most important thing is not whether you are a man or a woman, not whether you believe in God. The most important thing, as he says, is “to get something done.†Now there’s an Jewish Shamanist I can believe in.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:15 amPost 28 For some reason the Bush Regime wants the Kurds and Arabs to fight over Kirkuk?! Iraq as a nation cannot willingly allow the Kurds to form their own nation and take Kirkuk’s oil fields with them! The Kurds are hated by everybody in the region, they are the Gypsies of the Middle East! Whenever the US troops are withdrawn from Northern Iraq, then Turkey and Iran will sweep into the Kurdish zone and wipe out the Peshmerga Army! Expect the Kurds to be slaughtered and genocide of their race a distinct possibility?!
April 27th, 2006 at 10:20 am#31 – The way I understood it, they made the “welfare to work” rules easier to navigate and less likely that all welfare immediately stopped the second you got a job. This made going back to work less stressful for the newly employed, and as their work paycheck got higher, their welfare payments got lower until they were fully employed and completely off the “dole”.
Maybe I’m wrong, so I’ll have to check that out further when I have time today. I’ve got three application servers acting up, and my “Network” class final to take by this Sunday, so I’m rather busy! No welfare for me! ;-)
April 27th, 2006 at 10:21 amlate getting here – saw this on my homepage:
Senators: ‘Bumbling’ FEMA must go
April 27th, 2006 at 10:39 amBipartisan panel finds disaster agency beyond repair
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/27/katrina.fema/
#35
I saw that story, too. I’ve got an idea. Why not hire someone who actually knows what he is doing (James Lee Whit, anyone — that is, if he’d take the job) to head the agency and do some major butt kicking? What a noble idea! Anyway, some people have agreed that FEMA was ruined when it was taken in under the DHS umbrella.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:45 am#34 No welfare for me!
And thats all I ask.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:47 am#29
Another interesting question is: Where are all the “good news†stories about the Iraq war on Fox news? Aren’t they the vocal cheerleaders for the Republican party? Why do they hate America so much?!?!? (tongue firmly in cheek)
By the bye “morning, Squegeeboo!â€
Comment by Democrat Soldier — April 27, 2006 @ 10:07 am
Hey! Have you been reading my posts???? ;)
I’ve been wondering the same thing for weeks! I’ve actually started a project of sorts, checking their website at least once per week and seeing if they have any good news stories. I would watch the channel but a brief view of their website is all I can handle.
The tally so far: since the last week of March I’ve checked it 7 times and not one…ONE…good news story.
And as for squegeeboo’s suggesting that the rightwing blogs are covering these stories, that’s no excuse for Fox not to cover them. The complaint from the rightwingers and the Bush admin is that the MSM is not covering the good news stories. Blogs are not MSM. As you say, DS, if anyone should be covering this, it should be Fox.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:51 am35 & 36
April 27th, 2006 at 10:54 amI really feel that the problem does not lie in FEMA justifying a reason to get rid of one department and created the exact same thing underneath DHS, but instead in the creation of DHS in the first place. We talk about pork bills and whatnot all the time on here, and if i’ve ever seen a giant hunk of fat that needs to be cut off of our government’s ass it’s definately DHS, not FEMA. Creating DHS and putting FEMA under it is where the problem began in the first place, and how secure is our homeland after we’ve had this government agency for 5 years? What had DHS actually done to make our borders more secure? How much money are we wasting on a bunch of do nothings that are spending more time on bullshit like hair color, facial hair, and cargo shorts than they are on important things like the possibility of a nuke coming into a US port in a shipping container? I mean after it’s creation and what they’ve done and how they’ve handled their own security in their own building i really have to question what are these people getting paid for… i mean seriously, was FEMA even the REAL problem with Katrina, or was it the fact that Bush was on vacation?
#34 No welfare for me!
And thats all I ask.
Comment by squegeeboo
Whats wrong with welfare? I was on welfare when I first got married and had a kid. After about a year I got a computer tech job and was able to get off it. I paid taxes and I was glad to see my government was there for me and put my tax dollars to good use. Do you really think welfare is only for poor women that have kids so they dont have to get off welfare? Replacing reality with stereotypes and prejudice?
April 27th, 2006 at 10:54 amI’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The problem with health care in this country is not that it costs so much, it’s that they charge so much for it. I believe that if you got into any aspect of the health care field just for the money (because you could make a lot of it), then you should get out and find something more suitable to your low morals. People should only get into the health care field who want to help save lives and ease suffering. Exploiting sick and dying people for money is despicable. Maybe that’s just me.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:54 amEvery day in Washington, DC, perplexes me more because this Congress, both Repubs and Dems, is the most stupid in recorded history! King Dubya Dunce II has approval ratings dropping into the 20s % range, but most in the House and Senate act like Bush Boy has 80% of the population behind him?
The Bush Regime is more criminal minded than the Nixon Administration ever was, but the sac-less members of Congress are too afraid to impeach Dubya and Creepy Cheney?! The Iraq fiasco for controlling its OIL is in chaos, but again most in the Congress do nothing as our troops are killed to appease Bush’s manhood! Our borders are wide open to the entire population of Mexico, but those in the Congress care more about illegals than their own citizens! Our ports are allowed to bring in cargo that is 95% un-inspected, so a terrorist attack shipping in a nuclear device is assured to transpire! Corruption in DC has become a disease to America that cannot be allowed to fester any longer > Americans must vote out every last politician fool in our Capital this November, or this nation is doomed > PERIOD.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:59 am#40 Gerald,
When I was little my family was on welfare and my parents worked that much harder to get off of it as soon as possible, and even had to be conviced by the extended family just to take it in the first place. I feel, if your on welfare you should be ashamed to be on it, and it should make you try that much harder to not be on it.
“Do you really think welfare is only for poor women that have kids so they dont have to get off welfare?”
I spent 3 years working at a grocery store first as a cashier, then in the pharmacy, in my neighborhood, it was a bottom of middleclass and lower class neighborhood, while there I saw all sorts of welfare/foodstamps/medicaid abuse, to the point that it is a system I am convinced needs completly overhaul, even if that means completly removing it and starting from scratch on a new system.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:01 amFunny how the neocons plans have included the destruction of the federal government (expect for the military) for along time and now that they are in charge they have wrecked everything about the government that they can get their hands on. FEMA must be destroyed ..even though FEMA seemed to work just fine in Florida before the elections when they had their big hurricane. National debt is completely rediculous. Our relations with the UN has transformed us from a leader of human rights to a violator. All environmental efforts have been scraped (wasnt teddy roosevelt a republican environmentalist?) Our scientific prowess has been in decline compared to China and India. Instead of making a real innovation to our education system we just force a bunch of testing (which many schools in Texas were caught cheating on). Any attempt to make friends with the world (Peace corps etc.) has been downgraded. The Internet is under attack for the profits of a few. We seem to be moving FURTHER away from national health care for the profits of a few. The Constitution is being mocked. Seperation of church and state is being violated. The seperation of powers is being ignored. Out right bribery is rampant… maybe it was before but now they dont even try to hide it. International efforts to bring cooperation in space on things like the International Space station is being dumped for some show off side show to send men to Mars… for what? No one knows. Any real attempt to stop AIDS is being stiffled because they dont want birth control to be used (condoms)… if their goal has been to get more people hating Federal government they have surely succeeded… why would they want to make people hate the Federal government? Well look at the electoral map ….looks like the South is having their revenge after all…
April 27th, 2006 at 11:08 amViva Wang! Screw Hu! Zarqawi Wowie!
http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/2006/04/zarqawi-wowie-webmasters-of-death.html
April 27th, 2006 at 11:08 amWayne – my hisbands best friend is a doctor – an OB-Gyn at that. Bush would love him. He makes an incredible amount of money but is always complaining about needing more. Another fine example of a US citizen with the ability to assist people but hates his job and life because he only has a $700,000 house, 2 mercedes cars, 1 mercedes SUV and I do not know how many trucks for their “ranch.” Oh yeah, and a live in nanny.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:09 am#42
Jay… we’re doomed even if we replace the lackeys on capitol hill. unless there’s a major change in human nature, then a politician will continue to be a professional liar that looks out for their own ass and screws the people they represent. The good ones, or atleast the ones we tend to like and respect are just so good at it that they can just hide the fact that they’re taking yor for a ride in the details so that most people won’t pick up on it. regardless of what happens in november we’ll continue down the wrong track. Well that is unless we magically have all new representatives to the house and all new senators that are neither republican or democrat. I don’t care if you’re progressive or if you’re a neocon… either way it doesn’t matter because thee bottom line is anyone that we have on our ballots to vote for are politicians.
i figure the best thing to do is take pride in knowing that you’re being lied to… continue to expect more of the same, and just continue to lose faith in our government. Sure we can vote to try and change thigns, but when i really think about it nothing will change the way a younger generation would like to see it start to do until we’re all senior citizens.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:09 am#40 Gerald,
When I was little my family was on welfare and my parents worked that much harder to get off of it as soon as possible, and even had to be conviced by the extended family just to take it in the first place. I feel, if your on welfare you should be ashamed to be on it, and it should make you try that much harder to not be on it.
“Do you really think welfare is only for poor women that have kids so they dont have to get off welfare?â€
I spent 3 years working at a grocery store first as a cashier, then in the pharmacy, in my neighborhood, it was a bottom of middleclass and lower class neighborhood, while there I saw all sorts of welfare/foodstamps/medicaid abuse, to the point that it is a system I am convinced needs completly overhaul, even if that means completly removing it and starting from scratch on a new system.
Comment by squegeeboo
Ashamed? What are you living in highschool still where free lunches is an embaressment and not having “Guess” jeans is an embarressment? How childish.
When I was on welfare I worked at a Village Pantry (gas station/convenience store) I too saw SOME abuses …very little compared to the number of people it was helping. The abuses I saw were WHITE people driving up in expensive cars and yet had food stamps… now that was BS… the poor blacks that came in mostly walked ..no car…
I think you are living in Limbaugh fantasy world.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:13 amPost 47 I agree with you, but it is sad! Two and a half more years of Bush and those fools in the Congress is horrible to contemplate! I would move to Switzerland if I could, but do not have enough cash to do it! Zurich was just voted the best place to live in the entire world > glad I got to visit it once > very cool place!
April 27th, 2006 at 11:18 am30, I was being sarcastic.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:19 am“Ashamed? What are you living in highschool still where free lunches is an embaressment and not having “Guess†jeans is an embarressment? How childish.”
If your ashamed of something, you try harder to remove it from your life. If your not ashamed of something you have no problems doing it. So if people are ashamed of welfare, their more likely to use it only when absolutly necissary, and work harder to get off of it, at least thats my reasoning of it.
Pretty much everyone(80%+) on food stamps abused them, candy, soda, chips, expensive steaks should not be purchased with food stamps on a regular basis. If their wasn’t enough on the food stamp card, they tipically choose to send back the pastas, vegtables, cheaper meats like chicken, to keep the junk food and pre-made subs. Cash benifits that are meant for non-consumable neccasisties (ie. toilet paper, baby diapers, cash back for rent/utilities) went to magazines, cigs, and beer. Medicaid abuse, getting perscriptions like viagra covered, or showing up to the counter with 2 new packs of cigs, but some how you can’t afford your 2 dollar or 50 cent copay, and we’re required by law to wave it? All things that I saw on a regular basis working at the store.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:25 am#46 Jules,
And I know that president wants to see your husband’s friend be able to practice his love with women. And for all I know, he may be one of the best Ob?GYN’s in the country. But that shouldn’t make him feel that he’s entitled to charge so much for his services. I know that overhead costs can be high (medical equipment manufacturers charge a lot, as well as all the other vendors one has to deal with), but if he’s making enough to have all that he has, it seems to me that he could still live quite comfortably (and still quite better than the rest of us) on less money.
I do not believe that health care should be run with the same attitude that other businesses employ. The object of health care should not be to maximize profits, but to help as many people as possible. Could any CEO of a pharmaceutical giant look a real patient in the eye and tell him, “I have a pill that will cure your disease, but I am going to charge you $500 for it. And you’ll have to take it at least once a week.”? He would have to be one heartless SOB to do something like that. But CEOs never have to meet the people whose lives they aren’t interested in saving. They just like getting those huge salaries.
The US Constitution gives the Congress the authority to secure for inventors exclusive rights to their discoveries “for limited Times”. It does not specify the time limit duration. One excuse given for drugs being expensive is that it takes a long time to properly test a drug and by the time it’s ready for the market, the patent will be expiring soon. If that’s the excuse, the Congress has the authority to extend the time on patents for drugs. Gets rid of that excuse. And keep in mind that you and I help pay for the R&D through NIH grants, so it;s not like the pharms paid for ALL of the R&D that goes into a product. Some yes, but not all. I better stop there or it will be dark out by the time I finish.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:28 am#52
I can agree on drug companies being bastards for charging far too much, and they’re wrong for crying about patents expiring shrotly after their drug hits the market because it’s only fair… i mean hey if they competed with generic manufacturing a little bit more instead of charging 10x as much because their name is printed on a pill, then maybe they wouldn’t have to worry about losing so much money to generics when their patents expire.
on to the doctors. Every doctor i’ve ever met, friends and foes, are normally greedy. I don’t think that can be changed because anyone that goes to be a doctor is normally thinking aobut the $$. Residency gives them more reason to charge ridiculous amounts of money when they’re finally practicing independantly because i mean come on they do have atleast 8 years of school to pay for, and in most cases a fair share of credit debt from being in residency. Unfortunately, the real place that they need some big bucks is their insurance policies. they need professional liability for the entire office and anyone that practices there, each individual doctor also needs to cover professional liability (malpractice if you didn’t know), then they need a general liability as a business as well as a property policy on the business. Incidentally they do pass on alot of costs due to insurance prices, but i still agree that they are a bit greeedy.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:39 amWhen I was little my family was on welfare and my parents worked that much harder to get off of it as soon as possible, and even had to be conviced by the extended family just to take it in the first place. I feel, if your on welfare you should be ashamed to be on it, and it should make you try that much harder to not be on it.
Shaming them for being poor? Spoken like someone who has never had to swallow their pride and sit in a welfare office.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:44 amAnd if someone happens to be in an depressed economic area, where they can’t find a job, they should just move to a better place right? I take it that you had two healthy parents – no suddenly occuring maladies like blindness or heart disease to interfere with their ability to get off welfare and back to work right?
Would you also term disability payments “welfare” because they also aren’t working for it?
Pretty much everyone(80%+) on food stamps abused them, candy, soda, chips, expensive steaks should not be purchased with food stamps on a regular basis. If their wasn’t enough on the food stamp card, they tipically choose to send back the pastas, vegtables, cheaper meats like chicken, to keep the junk food and pre-made subs. Cash benifits that are meant for non-consumable neccasisties (ie. toilet paper, baby diapers, cash back for rent/utilities) went to magazines, cigs, and beer. Medicaid abuse, getting perscriptions like viagra covered, or showing up to the counter with 2 new packs of cigs, but some how you can’t afford your 2 dollar or 50 cent copay, and we’re required by law to wave it? All things that I saw on a regular basis working at the store.
Comment by squegeeboo
Where did you work again? It was not legal to sell any of that stuff to people with food stamps. Are you saying you saw businesses taking food stamps for beer? You should have reported them.
April 27th, 2006 at 11:44 amToo bad Wang doesn’t understand the irresistible force of…
…PROFIT…
April 27th, 2006 at 11:54 am#55 “It was not legal to sell any of that stuff to people with food stamps.”
New York, dont know about other states, but NY, has food stamps and cash benifits, food stamps can go for pretty much any food item that isn’t alchoholic or a hot prepared food, cash benifits are ment to work similar to a debit card, and can be used for anything, including getting cash back from the card. It is done so that people can pull money from it to pay for utilities/bills, or so it can be swiped at a store that accepts it for non-food stamp applicable things, such as diapers, toilet paper, soap, pet food, etc. However it has no limitiations on it that I am aware of, and if it did, you can always pull it out as cash and use the cash for whatever you couldn’t use the card on.
“Are you saying you saw businesses taking food stamps for beer? ”
April 27th, 2006 at 11:55 amCash benifits for beer and cigs, food stamps for junk food.
New York, dont know about other states, but NY, has food stamps and cash benifits, food stamps can go for pretty much any food item that isn’t alchoholic or a hot prepared food, cash benifits are ment to work similar to a debit card, and can be used for anything, including getting cash back from the card. It is done so that people can pull money from it to pay for utilities/bills, or so it can be swiped at a store that accepts it for non-food stamp applicable things, such as diapers, toilet paper, soap, pet food, etc. However it has no limitiations on it that I am aware of, and if it did, you can always pull it out as cash and use the cash for whatever you couldn’t use the card on.
“Are you saying you saw businesses taking food stamps for beer? â€
Cash benifits for beer and cigs, food stamps for junk food.
Comment by squegeeboo
Giving out cash is a bad idea… and those businesses should be fined.
April 27th, 2006 at 12:13 pm#54 “Spoken like someone who has never had to swallow their pride and sit in a welfare office.”
Sounds like if your swallowing your pride, then your ashamed. Maybe its a better way to phrase it, but I don’t do PC.
“And if someone happens to be in an depressed economic area, where they can’t find a job, they should just move to a better place right?”
Don’t see why they shouldn’t.
“I take it that you had two healthy parents – no suddenly occuring maladies like blindness or heart disease to interfere with their ability to get off welfare and back to work right?”
Healthy with a fine work ethic.
“Would you also term disability payments “welfare†because they also aren’t working for it?”
April 27th, 2006 at 12:16 pmWelfare – Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
It seems to fit the definition.
Hmmmm… Exxon-Mobil, an 8.4 Billion profit in only 3 months?!? Yeowza!! They are on ‘Corporate welfare’, while wallowing in money? But an individual on ‘welfare’, who is working or going to school, and trying to raise children as well, and who are seeing what little they do receive in aid being swallowed up by the same things we are all being pounded by. Skyrocketing fuel costs, for example, groceries are costing more, on and on and on it goes. But they are not getting any more assistance. But they are the ones being treated with disdain, sneered at, and belittled. But the oil companies, defense contractors, Halliburton, and all the others who are also being supported by us, are showered with money every day, but aren’t held to any standards, while individuals are under a microscope, penalized by a reduction in benefits if they start working longer hours, for example. Corporations get the ‘carrot’, individuals get the ’stick’. I wonder how many families, displaced by Hurricane Katrina, have had to apply for welfare, because the promised help from FEMA never arrived, or was denied, or FEMA had just packed up, and left town, without leaving a forwarding address. But you can bet your ass that Halliburton is still getting paid, whether or not they are doing anything they are supposed to be doing, for all those billions of dollars. I am okay with my tax dollars being used to help people survive, but I really must object to our government “investing” in corporations, but then not expecting to receive any “dividends” from those investments. No, instead we just keep on investing, while slamming the truly needy.
April 27th, 2006 at 12:17 pm“Let us solve our problems by ourselves.†— Sound advice, we should’ve thought of that three years ago. Instead, we get Operation Desert Quagmire.
Comment by And You Thought REAGAN Was Stupid
Gratitude for saving his worthless hide from Saddam and then the terrorists is something a few of these losers can’t quite cough up. You can bet your butt he didn’t want to solve his own problems when that gas of Saddam’s hit one of his Kurdish towns. This is just going to make it easier to blow them away when they take our bood and our money and stab us in the back.
April 27th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#58 Giving out cash is a bad idea… and those businesses should be fined.
For complying with NY state law? Instead you would have to change the welfare laws to now allow it.
April 27th, 2006 at 12:20 pmGerald, check out this site, http://www.otda.state.ny.us/ebt/howto.htm
Specifically the parts labeled:
April 27th, 2006 at 12:27 pmCash Withdrawal
How to Use Your Benefit Card at an Automated Teller Machine (ATM)
#40 & 48, My statement “no welfare for me!” was a sad attempt at levity. I hope and pray that I’ll never need welfare, but I’m glad the option is available if I’m ever in dire straights. I didn’t mean to offend.
I consider welfare the “helping hand” when life hits you with the unexpected.
I’ve known a number of people who were/are on welfare, and the idea of “abuse” that I’ve hears has always been related as “They’re buying steaks while I’m buying spam!” (This was from an old boss whose wife worked as a checkout clerk.) I found out later that this is very much the minority of cases. I’d put the “abuse” at less than 10%, but it’s the less-than-10% that everyone hears about. (These numbers are based on my opinion and my cousin who worked for the New Mexico state welfare office.)
April 27th, 2006 at 12:30 pm“Ashamed?
Would you prefer someone on Welfare was proud of the state they were in? Really happy with themselves for not being able to make it on their own?
Sure everyone needs a hand up when things go terribly wrong but one needs to recognize where they are and get out of the situation. Improve their life with the help. Not sit there and hold their head up real high at the fact that everyone else is paying their way.
April 27th, 2006 at 12:33 pmHeya Democrat Soldier,
I’d put the “abuse†at less than 10%
Buying steaks and lobsters on welfare dollars weekly isn’t abuse, it’s just wrong. I’m not even saying once in a while go ahead and grab one, we all need a little pamper. But it wouldn’t qualify as abuse.
I’ve had this discussion with several cashiers at different points and I would place the number based on what they see going through the checkout line at closer to 50%. Sure it may not be termed abuse but bags of candy, premade subs, lobster and steak are wrong when you see single mothers/college kids who are working 2 jobs trying to make ends meet and can’t afford much more than mac and cheese and Ramen.
April 27th, 2006 at 12:45 pm“Ashamed?
Would you prefer someone on Welfare was proud of the state they were in? Really happy with themselves for not being able to make it on their own?
Sure everyone needs a hand up when things go terribly wrong but one needs to recognize where they are and get out of the situation. Improve their life with the help. Not sit there and hold their head up real high at the fact that everyone else is paying their way.
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 12:33 pm
So it’s not the fault of circumstance; they SHOULD be ashamed for not being born into the lucky sperm club!
Very elitist attitude – which I’m sure you’ll lose the first time you have to collect welfare – and if you never do, congrats, lucky sperm club member!
April 27th, 2006 at 12:55 pm#67 – It sounds like you’re asking the question “How many times do you see people buying bags of candy, premade subs, lobster and steak with food stamps?”
The way I would have asked the questions would be:
“Do you have many people who use welfare cards/food stamps?
Out of those people, how many buy basic food as opposed to bags of candy, premade subs, lobster and steak?
Are the “abusers” the same people all the time, or is it one person buying it occasionally while basic food the other times?”
I do agree that it’s the abusers that make students and 2-3 job holders think the system is being abused more often than not.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pmI take it that you had two healthy parents – no suddenly occuring maladies like blindness or heart disease to interfere with their ability to get off welfare and back to work right?â€
Healthy with a fine work ethic.
Squeege
Congrats to you lucky sperm club member! Perhaps you can tell us how you chose such fine parents? I’d like a pair myself; y’see, I was adopted by a couple who became ill and died before I reached adulthood, and at times I have had to get welfare to survive – so your elitist attitude rubs me the wrong way, bub. As does your simplistic anecdotes – try living on welfare before knocking it.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:03 pmVery elitist attitude
Elitist because I only believe in hand up’s not hand outs. UMMM OK.
So it’s not the fault of circumstance;
Keep finding someone/something else to blame, seems to fit your MO. Personally I get stuck in situations and fight like hell to get out. Not sit there and be happy that I can blame someone else and let them fix it for me.
they SHOULD be ashamed for not being born into the lucky sperm club!
No, they should be ashamed of the fact they are not being able to take care of themselves (Disabilities/mental and physical are situations that are unavoidable) Perfectly healthy people should be ashamed for being on welfare and fight and work to get themselves off of it. Call it elitist if you want.
congrats, lucky sperm club member!
Umm yeah I make more than both my parents put together. They couldn’t afford to send me to school, I needed to do it.
I would like an answer as to why someone on welfare should be proud to be on it though.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:04 pmExxon-Mobil, an 8.4 Billion profit in only 3 months?!? Yeowza!! They are on ‘Corporate welfare’, while wallowing in money? But an individual on ‘welfare’, who is working or going to school, and trying to raise children as well, and who are seeing what little they do receive in aid being swallowed up by the same things we are all being pounded by. Skyrocketing fuel costs, for example, groceries are costing more, on and on and on it goes.
Comment by Cyra Brown #60
Cyra,
It would appear that inbreds have a soft spot for thieves who steal BIG!
…the MSM is full of stories about FEMA cheats, looters in NO, dumb a*s criminals who are caught on tape…
…the al Cracker red state, Bushite TRAITORS EAT THAT SH*T UP!
…even while Halliburton, General Dynamics, Exxon-Mobil, GE and any number of big time global criminal enterprises are stealing their very futures away from them…
…the dumb a*s inbred Bushites just smile, look skyward at the “yellow rain” falling down on their idiot noggins from their corporate gods’ pe*is’…
…and say “LOOK MA! It’s rainin’ gold!
…this is known as the “I too can someday be rich, powerful, greedy, and sh*t on my fellow man, if i stay true to the capitalist dogma”….
April 27th, 2006 at 1:08 pmI’ve had this discussion with several cashiers at different points and I would place the number based on what they see going through the checkout line at closer to 50%. Sure it may not be termed abuse but bags of candy, premade subs, lobster and steak are wrong when you see single mothers/college kids who are working 2 jobs trying to make ends meet and can’t afford much more than mac and cheese and Ramen.
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 12:45 pm
Oh, well, since grocery store cashiers are the most impartial of observers, perhaps we can get them to oversee our broken electoral process as well!
April 27th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#68
“Do you have many people who use welfare cards/food stamps?
Out of those people, how many buy basic food as opposed to bags of candy, premade subs, lobster and steak?
Are the “abusers†the same people all the time, or is it one person buying it occasionally while basic food the other times?â€
See my 80% estimate above. Those were people who regularly bought non-basic foods, as a substantial portion of each shopping trip.
Of course, welfare abuse is prob the area I’m the most bitter/pessimistic about, so I might be remebering it how I want to remeber it, but still over 60% for sure.
#67 barfly
Every generation of my family that I’m aware of has started out poor and worked our way up to different levels of middle class. They did this thru hard work as opposed to feeling sorry for themselves and relying on hand outs. My one family member who felt sorry for himself is the one who is still barely scraping by and uses social services as a crutch. Unless you have a disability that forces you to rely on social services their is no excuse to be on them beyond a short period of time as an initial hand up. Do bad things happen to good people? Yes, but more often then not bad things happen from bad choices.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:10 pmBarfly
“try living on welfare before knocking it”
You mean like the time that I mentioned above when I did, what was it called? Oh thats right, my childhood.
“and at times I have had to get welfare to survive ”
And did you get off of it by feeling sorry for yourself, and wishing you had rich benifactors, or did you get off of it thru working hard?
I have no issue with the concept of welfare, I have issues with the blatant abuse of welfare that I’ve seen at several of my past jobs.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:16 pmPerfectly healthy people should be ashamed for being on welfare and fight and work to get themselves off of it. Call it elitist if you want
congrats, lucky sperm club member!
Umm yeah I make more than both my parents put together. They couldn’t afford to send me to school, I needed to do it.
I would like an answer as to why someone on welfare should be proud to be on it though.
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 1:04 pm
Who said they should be proud to be on it? People saying that others should be “ashamed” to be on welfare are looking for scapegoats. If your life is so great why do you feel the need to look down your nose at less fortunate individuals? That is elitism. You know nothing of their circumstance, just the fact that they are on welfare is all you need to know to make your determination – elitism in its purest form.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:21 pmBarfly,
That’s all fine, I’m glad you were proud when you were on welfare. I’m glad you felt great while on it. Happy in the fact that you got everyone else to pay your way. I am glad that you didn’t feel any shame or feel a need to get off of assistance.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:23 pm“try living on welfare before knocking itâ€
You mean like the time that I mentioned above when I did, what was it called? Oh thats right, my childhood.
Squeege
Not the same; YOU have never had to file for welfare, have you? You have never had to sit in a welfare office and explain YOUR past failures have you? If so, I apologize, if not, elitism rears its ugly head once more.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:30 pm#76 A poor must be ashamed of being poor? Your political view reminds me that of Marie Antoinette in 1788.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:31 pmThat’s all fine, I’m glad you were proud when you were on welfare. I’m glad you felt great while on it. Happy in the fact that you got everyone else to pay your way. I am glad that you didn’t feel any shame or feel a need to get off of assistance.
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
When I was 5, my father lost his job and had to take two part-time jobs while he looked for work. My mom had 3 little kids to raise and couldn’t work. She wouldn’t take any governmnent aid because she was too embarrassed.
On the other end of the spectrum, there are now 6th generations who’ve grown up on welfare. And people taking handouts when they just need to get a job.
When systems fail, it isn’t because of people, it’s because of the system (loopholes). We need to revise the system so that welfare is a hand-up and not a hand-out. People shouldn’t be embarrassed to get help, but neither should they be proud to be milking a very generous system. Sure, there will always be exceptions to every rule – but for the majority, it shouldn’t be easy to amke it a way of life.
(Are you going to propose now? :)
April 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmBarfly,
That’s all fine, I’m glad you were proud when you were on welfare. I’m glad you felt great while on it. Happy in the fact that you got everyone else to pay your way. I am glad that you didn’t feel any shame or feel a need to get off of assistance.
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
Elitist twaddle. Being on welfare is shame enough, but not enough for Tundra, who want to hear them wailing their shame, rending themselves, and prostrating themselves before the obviously superior members of the lucky sperm club.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmYou have never had to sit in a welfare office and explain YOUR past failures have you?
You almost sound ashamed to have had to do that.
Elitist, Less than 6% of the population is on welfare especially during Clinton (Whooo Clinton). I am an elitist because I am part of the 94% of the population not on it.
I have never said that I was against a hand up, I never said I was against helping those who need it. I simply said if you are perfectly healthy and able to work you should feel shame for being on welfare, which would be a motivator to get off of it. You are taking it as a slam, sorry. If you think you should be happy to be on welfare and feel no shame in it then we obviously differ.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmElitist twaddle. Being on welfare is shame enough,
You can say it’s shame but if I say it is it’s elitist?????I point out that one should feel it to get off, you choose to turn that into I want them begging and groveling. Learn how to read.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:42 pm80
obviously superior members of the lucky sperm club.
You keep saying that as if my parents had anything. I am starting to assume you mean those that take personal responsibility for themselves. In that case I’m sorry you missed that gene.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:44 pmBarfly – Not the same; YOU have never had to file for welfare, have you? You have never had to sit in a welfare office and explain YOUR past failures have you? If so, I apologize, if not, elitism rears its ugly head once more.
Elitism is wanting people to take care of themselves? Elitism is for being against people abusing a system that is ment to be a hand up, not a life-style choice? We can’t all be on welfare over and over again, some of us have to work to provide the gov’t funds that go into it.
I guess I should apologize to all the people who abuse the system, so here goes:
“I’m sorry my parents instilled a good work ethic in my, so that I would never have to live hand to mouth like we did when I was little. I’m sorry that I would rather work 2-3 jobs thru college to pay for it and my living expenses instead of asking for handouts, in short, I apologise for trying my best to always be a funtional, usefull member of society, and being ashamed of myself the few times I’ve failed at that task, even though that shame at my failure is what forces me to pick myself up and start over.”
April 27th, 2006 at 1:47 pm#81 e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
1 The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2 The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
3 Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
Sorry, Tundra, but you can be considered an elitist, even if you’re in the 94% of lucky enough people. BTW, a 6% beggars is A LOT of beggars. Maybe the economic system in the USA is too selfish.
And, against the extended myth in the USA culture that says that everyone working hard enough can get off poverty, lacks a lot of factual basis because doesn’t take in account everyone’s circumstancies. Bad luck is out there, and instant recovery by hard work is a fairy tale. Many people doesn’t recover never, simply because they work so harder that fall ill, and then have even more debts, or simply die.
The sweeping statement that healthy people who stay in welfare must be ashamed is flatly wrong, even in the case you are wanting to use, to use the “shame” as a tool to help one self out of welfare.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:48 pm85
1 The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment
What favored treatment? Oh yeah the not having the government giving us money group, ahhhhh I see.
2 The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
What entitlement? Oh yeah the not having the government giving us money entitlement, ahhhhh I see.
3 Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
Well I guess I do want some form of control over what is bought such as good healthy foods, not candy and beer.
94% of lucky enough people
Yeah everything that has happened to me in life was all luck.
The sweeping statement that healthy people who stay in welfare must be ashamed is flatly wrong
Here is where we differ. You feel that someone should feel no shame in being on welfare who stay there and are healthy. I feel they should go out and get a job or two and get off of it so they can pour the money back into the system and help someone else who needs a hand up. Instead of just taking.
And, against the extended myth in the USA culture that says that everyone working hard enough can get off poverty, lacks a lot of factual basis
April 27th, 2006 at 1:56 pmThere are plenty of programs available for anyone that wants to get out of poverty. If someone chooses to stay there well, discussion noted.
And another thing: “personnal responsability” is only a PR idea developed by republican think tanks to make unlucky and/or poor people feel ashamed by “their own” imaginary faults, and don’t give a dime (the republicans) to really needy people, without hesitation. Pretty greedy and selfish. Even if some republicans whitewash their souls giving some crappy 10% of income to charities, ever related to own interests…
April 27th, 2006 at 1:57 pm#87 your right, its all luck, personnal responsibility has no effect on anything.
Here, test your theory, stop showing up for work for a few weeks, come back here in a month and let us know how that works out for you.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:03 pmWhen systems fail, it isn’t because of people, it’s because of the system (loopholes).
I agree.
People shouldn’t be embarrassed to get help
In a perfect world I guess not. I’ve had to ask friends for $20 till the end of the week before for gas and always felt shame in doing it. I guess it’s what kept me from being like the guy who kept secretly asking everyone in the department and ended up owing over $500 when he was fired.
I don’t know though, big difference between needing help and milking the system though your right.
(Are you going to propose now? :)
April 27th, 2006 at 2:04 pmI don’t even know your ring size yet :)
87
*Blinks*
*Blinks again*
*Sighs*
April 27th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#86 There are plenty of programs available for anyone that wants to get out of poverty. If someone chooses to stay there well, discussion noted.
Yet another thing: I have no doubt that there are a lot programs available, but the partiality and micromanagement needed to apply, makes an economy degree almost indispensable. And poor people doesn’t have economy degrees in the most cases. And maybe there isn’t enough counseling available to help them get into the programs. And what makes you think that these programs suffice? If there are a 6% of people on welfare, maybe the programs lack of funds or adequate coordination.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:07 pmI did it all correct. I signed up for one of *ss’s programs for drugs for seniors. It took 2 weeks to become eligible, I went without diabetic medication. Then the day it went into effect I ordered my medicines and found out that I would have to pay $80.00 more than I paid before. No one had mentioned that there was a program for those under a certain income. I then called Medicare and they agreed to send out an application in 2 weeks. I am still waiting for that to go into effect and I have not had the most important diabetic/heart medicine for almost a month. It is going to cost a lot more when I lose my eyes/legs/kidneys from neglect. The usual *ss incompitence is in everything he touches. Screw the war and repair the safety net.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:07 pmI don’t even know your ring size yet :)
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 2:04 pm
That’s easy. I don’t want one. Seriously. Think it’s a ridiculous waste of money that could be better spent on a house down payment or something more responsible.
Amazing how that ring thing became a tradition. Just another one without merit. Sometimes I wonder why we don’t think about the crazy things we do…
April 27th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#88 No. You’re not getting it: “personnal responsability” exists but ISN’T the source of all the problems of the POOR.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:37 pm#94 No. You’re not getting it: “personnal responsability†exists but ISN’T the source of all the problems of the POOR.
I agree, luck and health also play factors, however, they are very small factors compared to personal responsibility and personal choices made through out life.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:41 pmThat’s easy. I don’t want one.
How about a Snickers bar and a rose (I heard the Snickers bar really satisfies) :)
something more responsible.
Watch out they will start yelling at you for choosing a responsibile route instead of demanding the government supply (Expensive) wedding rings to those less fortunate (But they should be as good as Brad and Angelinas to be fair).
I lke the whole concept though. I think the same thing for the big wedding, take the money and start a life as opposed to a 20-30 thousand dollar 1 night party. That does make one heck of a down payment huh?
April 27th, 2006 at 2:46 pm# Luck and health small factors??? Well, Luck wasn’t a small factor for G.W. Bush. If his grandad weren’t a (nazi) banker, and his dad weren’t the 41st POTUS, you think that his 91 CI alone would have made him the 43st POTUS? Honestly?
April 27th, 2006 at 2:48 pm#97 And the hyper-rich/influential familes like the Bushs are what tiny percantage? Tiny percantages would mean tiny luck, otherwise more familes would be like the Bush’s.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:52 pm97,
Health can be removed because the whole premise of the original statement was healthy enough to work and choose not to.
If you consider luck to be a bigger factor than personal responsibility, we could also discuss the amount that mythical “god” or the Mythical “Flying Spaghetti Monster” Perhaps “area 51″ or “Elvis sightings” have to do with it.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:54 pm*sigh*
It never fails. When discussing “entitlement programs” people throw around generalizations and sterotypes to support their opinion.
A Couple of Facts:
Welfare is generally categorized as foodstamps and TANF. Foodstamps, of course are used to make food purchases. TANF (temporary assistance for needy families) is funds that the family can use to pay for utilities, rent, day care and such.
The average TANF monthly payment is around $405. Average that out and the people that you think are living high on the hog have about $13.50 of “mad money” to spend per day.
Food stamp allocation is based on the number of people in your home and the net household income. For example, the MAXIMUM that a family of three could receive monthly is $399. That’s $133 per person monthly and $4.43 per day.
The “welfare queen” is a myth. Receiving public assistance is hardly a gravy train. Most people only use it when they fall on hard times. Those that work and py into the system should have a safety net if things go bottom up. I will not gripe about my tax dollars helping families in need. Those that have griped on this board should take a long look at the stats I listed and revisit their sterotypical thinking.
Let’s talk food for a second. It is much more expensive to eat healthy than it is to eat processed and prepared foods. That is a fact. If you only have $4.33 a day to feed your 2 kids, wouldn’t you try to stretch the money as far as possible to ensure that the kids get to eat daily? Just a thought.
Lastly, I admit that abuse and fraud does occur. That doesn’t mean that the programs should be scrapped. Kids that are hungry don’t commit fraud, adults do. Hungry children shouldn’t be punished because of adult selfishness. Social Services should have the manpower to address issues of fraud and abuse. Catch those that take advantage and prosecute them, but don’t take away the helping hand that many families genuinely need.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:54 pmAnd health is also a BIG factor for everybody. If your fathers haven’t a good health thorough his whole life and die or get ill, you’ll have less chances to enhance your personnal living standing. If you haven’t a good health, you can’t work so hardly and must pay for your health being fixed (if it is possible, a lot of illness don’t have a perfect recovery rate, and many serious illness needs lots of money throw in to get in acceptable health). Even preventive medicine needs a lot of money.
And health is, in many cases, an inheritance problem: you can inherit illness from your fathers, or your fathers being ill for working a give you a healthy infance, makes you more prone to illness due to a worser starting.
April 27th, 2006 at 2:55 pm#98 G.W. Bush is an extreme (yet very real) example of pre-born luck. It only demonstrates that Luck is a very real factor in your richness. Ir your dads aren’t poor, you don’t born poor, so you’re far less prone to end in welfare.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:00 pm#100 “It is much more expensive to eat healthy than it is to eat processed and prepared foods. That is a fact. ”
If your talking 100% healthy, organic etc, then yes it is. But if your buying a bag of chips and a 12 pack of soda for a combined total of around 6 dollars, instead they could have bought 3 pounds of pasta and 2 jars of sauce, which would feed a family of 3 for 2-3 dinners.
“Those that have griped on this board should take a long look at the stats I listed and revisit their sterotypical thinking.”
We’ve griped about the abuse of the system, and the mentality that allows that abuse, not the usefulness of the system as a hand up.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:01 pmAnd health is, in many cases, an inheritance problem: you can inherit illness from your fathers, or your fathers being ill for working a give you a healthy infance, makes you more prone to illness due to a worser starting.
A lot easier to blame anything but yourself. Sure, there’s luck and inheritance but nobody should ever use it as an excuse, or a reason they can’t advance. The lucky start out ahead, but the unlucky can catch up, they just have to work harder than the lucky.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#103 If your talking 100% healthy, organic etc, then yes it is. But if your buying a bag of chips and a 12 pack of soda for a combined total of around 6 dollars, instead they could have bought 3 pounds of pasta and 2 jars of sauce, which would feed a family of 3 for 2-3 dinners.
LOL! You realize that both the diets you propose are VERY UNHEALTHY? Chips are too greasy, soda too sweet, and eating forever pasta with bottled sauce makes you weight a ton in few months, with the health problems associated? You demonstrate that being poor doesn’t afford you a reasonable diet, who makes you more prone to a bad health, thus making you more prone to illness and therefore to medical spendings, if you can afford them, or a lesser quality or specialization of your work… remember, you need a good diet to work 12 hours a day, and learn your laws degree, to get out of welfare, “personnal responsability”, you remember?
April 27th, 2006 at 3:10 pmSo now, it’s your father’s fault, your diet’s fault….how many more things can we blame for not allowing someone to work for a living.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:14 pm#105 Evil,
I’m not proposing soda and chips, its what I see people on welfare buy more often then most healthy things, it was used as an example. Yes pasta can make you fat, if your to lazy to exercise.
remember, you need a good diet to work 12 hours a day, and learn your laws degree
Speaking from experience(not a law degree, computer science) you do not need a good diet. Pasta and the occasional chicken and rice has done me just fine. My entire food spending for a week is under 30 bucks, which is less then the 4.33 a day per person stated above.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:15 pmHow about a Snickers bar and a rose (I heard the Snickers bar really satisfies) :)
Sweet… literally :)
Watch out they will start yelling at you for choosing a responsibile route instead of demanding the government supply (Expensive) wedding rings to those less fortunate (But they should be as good as Brad and Angelinas to be fair).
That would be a break from being yelled at for not buying into the latest 9/11 conspiracy theory :). Guess I’m supposed to ignore 6 years of education and 14 years experience in building design so I can support in blind faith the latest extreme left cause. Except, I’m not extreme left. Just left of center, and somehow that makes me a neocon to those folks. I’m not really sure how you, IRI, and the more moderate conservatives deal with the extreme lefties in here on a regular basis. Must be the testosterone… :)
I lke the whole concept though. I think the same thing for the big wedding, take the money and start a life as opposed to a 20-30 thousand dollar 1 night party. That does make one heck of a down payment huh?
Comment by Tundra — April 27, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
I had a co-worker who was an Interior Designer. So fashion was really her thing. Which I understood, but she wanted to design everything in her wedding. It started out with a budget of $25,000 – but I think that the real final number was more like $40,000! It was begging her parents for more money and begging his parents for money at all and her life savings and his life savings for what you said – a one night party. Moral of the story? He wound up going to graduate school while she worked to support them and four years later they are still renting a house, are thousands in student loan debt and stressed. I bet they’d wish they could have that $40K back. Especially if they wind up in divorce court….
April 27th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#104 Well, an example: let’s make a 100 yards run. You are a fat, but privileged kid, and start in a line a yard off the finish (100th yard=decent living). He is so fat that needs 2 seconds to run the single yard he needs to reach the finish. The privileged boy must compete with the worldrecordman poor child capable of running 100 yards in 10 seconds. His starting line is in the 0 yard, so he has to run 100 yards to win (make a living).
Let’s start the competition.
Second 1: Poor boy runs 10 yards to the finish. Rich boy walks half a yard and sweats seas.
Second 2: Poor boy runs another 10 yards, he is now in the 20th yard. Rich boy crawls half a yard, reach the finish, and there are his daddy’s chauffeur, with natural orange juice, a chair and his personal fitness trainer, ready to help him. Rich boy has won (?) his living standing.
Second 3: Poor boy still is running. He covers the 30th yard. He draws strenght from his will and runs an extra yard in this second. Wow! He is a winner.
Second 4: Poor boy, against it’s luck, trips and falls. He breaks his ankle. Nobody is there to help. He has no personnal trainer, not daddy’s chauffeur. He loses. He can’t run anymore.
Effort gives you everything sooner or later? I think not.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:25 pmSpeaking from experience(not a law degree, computer science) you do not need a good diet. Pasta and the occasional chicken and rice has done me just fine. My entire food spending for a week is under 30 bucks, which is less then the 4.33 a day per person stated above.
Comment by squegeeboo — April 27, 2006 @ 3:15 pm
Speaking from more experience, you are what you eat. And to use a quote you may very well understand – garbage in – garbage out. If you don’t eat well, you aren’t well. Maybe at 22, 23, 27 you can’t tell, but I’m pushing 40 and people still think I’m in my late twenties. I contribute that to good genes, youthful perspective on life, and 12 years as a picky eater (vegetarian to vegan). While many of my friends are starting to have health issues (some serious in fact), I have more energy – without caffiene or nicotine – than some of the kids in my classes.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#107 Mantain this diet a couple years and you will die at 40.
A worth seeing: “Super Size Me”.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#106 So all in this world is a question of my own will? Let’s see… bhealy, hear the power or my will: die, die, Die, DIE! Well, are you alive or are you dead?
April 27th, 2006 at 3:32 pm#109 Besides your example just being plain silly
“Poor boy, against it’s luck, trips and falls. He breaks his ankle. Nobody is there to help. He has no personnal trainer, not daddy’s chauffeur. He loses. He can’t run anymore.”
And how many other poor boys who are also running don’t trip, and out of the section that does trip, how many don’t hurt their ankle or just sprain it? 99%+ I would think, unless their running over uneven ground, at which point they should be walking, it might take a bit longer, but it’s the smarter choice and still gets them to their goal.
Besides which there are normally paramedics on site at a race to help out if some one gets injured, and who should help out, however if anouther boy realises that by pretending to be hurt he can also get a hand from the paramedics, it adds strain to the paramedics work load due to the laziness of that boy. That is my concern.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:35 pmSo all in this world is a question of my own will? Let’s see… bhealy, hear the power or my will: die, die, Die, DIE! Well, are you alive or are you dead?
I never mentioned your will, but I guess you are referring to someone’s will to work. That they can have all the will in the world to work but can’t. for some other reason. The problem is that those with the will to work do so, but it is too easy for them to lose the will when given outs such as blaming their father, or their diet, or their situation, or their luck. The ability to blame other things for failure is what saps people’s will. Why try to work if you are going to fail. Will works inward, not outward.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:39 pmOn a topic wholly unrealted to health issues and welfare, the Senate not only has cut funding for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, now they are also threatening with cutting funds for Pres Bush’s “terrorist surveillance program” (aka illegal wiretapping):
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter said Thursday he is considering legislation to cut off funding for the Bush administration’s secret domestic wiretapping program until he gets satisfactory answers about it from the White House.
“Institutionally, the presidency is walking all over Congress at the moment,” Specter, R-Pa., told the panel. “If we are to maintain our institutional prerogative, that may be the only way we can do it.”
Specter said he had informed President Bush about his intention and that he has attracted several potential co-sponsors. He said he’s become increasingly frustrated in trying to elicit information about the program from senior White House officials at several public hearings.
Specter threatens to block money for NSA domestic wiretapping
Congress holds the strings to the purse, and they are letting Pres Bush know they are not too keen on letting him get away with doing as he pleases anymore. Amazing -a Republican revolt?
April 27th, 2006 at 3:45 pm#109
April 27th, 2006 at 3:46 pmThe poor boy never finishes the race because he tripped, not because he started off inferior, or his daddy didn’t have good genes for him, or he didn’t eat the right meal.
#113
And how many other poor boys who are also running don’t trip, and out of the section that does trip, how many don’t hurt their ankle or just sprain it? 99%+ I would think, unless their running over uneven ground, at which point they should be walking, it might take a bit longer, but it’s the smarter choice and still gets them to their goal.
Life is an uneven terrain, and running a longer run makes you more prone to tripping, and breaking or spraining your ankle. And, life has a limited lenght (let’s say 12 seconds?) , and if you walk instead of running, you die in the 60th yard, without having earned enough money for your children (remember, the goal of having a decent living is in the 100th yard), who, in turn must run their own 100 yards.
Besides which there are normally paramedics on site at a race to help out if some one gets injured, and who should help out, however if anouther boy realises that by pretending to be hurt he can also get a hand from the paramedics, it adds strain to the paramedics work load due to the laziness of that boy. That is my concern.
Have I described paramedics? No. Or yes, if we assume that the personnal trainer of the rich boy is medicine. Remember, a personnal trainer works for those who pay him (=private health insurance in the USA). And my concern is the rich boy having the chauffeur and the personnal trainer and the poor one having none. The solution that you propose is letting the poor boy down if he doesn’t reach the goal alone. The mine is that is worth helping everyone to reach the goal. If the poor boy tries to game the system, is very easy to demonstrate: the personnal trainer can review if the injury is real and, if not, disqualify him.
Even so, you’ve not justified why the fatball began at the 99th yard. It’s not fair.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:48 pm#110 And to use a quote you may very well understand – garbage in – garbage out.
Sounds about right, if only I liked fruits or vegtables, but my ancestors didn’t spend thousands of years climbing the food chain for me to move right back down it, unlike hippy vegitarians(you :) but over the past few years I’ve been slowely moving my diet over to healthy, it used to be all red meat and cheese, which is a much higher food bill too. Maybe one day I’ll even toss in apples or oranges.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:49 pm#114 You assume that everyone on welfare isnt’ willing to work hard, and need some fear to improve. I disagree. Because people in need don’t need people stiffling even more their progress in a difficult situation.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:52 pm#117
Even so, you’ve not justified why the fatball began at the 99th yard. It’s not fair.
Welcome to life.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:52 pmA worth seeing: “Super Size Meâ€.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — April 27, 2006 @ 3:29 pm
Excellent movie. Morgan Spurlock is the Michael Moore of the waistline :)
April 27th, 2006 at 3:54 pm#116 The poor boy never finishes the race because he tripped, not because he started off inferior, or his daddy didn’t have good genes for him, or he didn’t eat the right meal.
Look #117
April 27th, 2006 at 3:54 pmMaybe one day I’ll even toss in apples or oranges.
Comment by squegeeboo — April 27, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
I guess I had a bigger incentive to switch. I watched my father from when I was 15 to 27 deteriorate and then die from colon cancer. And I don’t ever want to go through that. No one does.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#120 I see, you’re against working for making the life fair for everybody. How republican. Sorry for you.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:59 pmCongress holds the strings to the purse, and they are letting Pres Bush know they are not too keen on letting him get away with doing as he pleases anymore. Amazing -a Republican revolt?
Comment by Gregor Samsa — April 27, 2006 @ 3:45 pm
Don’t tease me Gregor. I am far too desperate to want to believe that the pendulum has finally climaxed and is about to swing back in the other direction… toward temperence.
April 27th, 2006 at 3:59 pmI see, you’re against working for making the life fair for everybody. How republican. Sorry for you.
Comment by Evil Spaniard — April 27, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
He will change his mind one day when it is he who needs genuine assistance. They all do. Myself included.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:01 pmYou assume that everyone on welfare isnt’ willing to work hard, and need some fear to improve.
I assume that some people on welfare aren’t willing to work hard. Why should they, they get paid for not working. The current system allows that. The solution is that people on welfare feel ashamed enough to do whatever it takes to get off of welfare.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:02 pm#124 To make everything fair you would have to lower everything to the least common demoninator and make it worse for the majority of people. See any attempt at full socialism, that is what happens, with out fail, except for the standard oligarchy that forms around the elite that exist regardless of the society you live in.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:04 pmUnbelievable,
I understand, it would be nice if we finally saw some sanity restored in the White House. I don’t have my hopes too high, but it is encouraging to hear Sen Specter (a senator with impeccable Republican credentials) say: “Institutionally, the presidency is walking all over Congress at the momentâ€.
After months of fighting the trolls and their “the prez can do no wrong”, I feel vindicated. HA!
April 27th, 2006 at 4:05 pmGregor, Spector is considered a huge RINO by the right.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:08 pm#126 I hope so, Unbelievable. At least, you’re a total success :)
And for those repubs who only trust in greed and punishment: yes, in my country there are welfare and social security, but I myself, have every right to free health, but I have a private health insurance. I don’t mind that my taxes are funding health for others, nor I do a private insurance because there are too much “horror histories” in free healthcare. The doctors and hospitals are exactly the same. The only reason to have a “just in case” option B.
And paying extra taxes doesn’t hurt ;)
April 27th, 2006 at 4:10 pm#128 In fact I’m looking just now in the eyes of full capitalism and, boy, it’s REALLY BAD. Full of greedy people, who doesn’t care if they trample their less fortunate neighbours, because their olygarchy has convinced them that the responsibles of the life’s hardiness are poors.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:14 pmAfter months of fighting the trolls and their “the prez can do no wrongâ€, I feel vindicated. HA!
Comment by Gregor Samsa — April 27, 2006 @ 4:05 pm
I think it was about 20 years ago that I studied Political Science. And yet, I still remember the part about Congress being an equal branch of government to the Executive branch, which meant that they were supposed to be skeptical of one another. How the hell is Arlen Spector, a life long politician, just now learning this? Better late than never, I suppose. Thanks for letting us know. I do hope it’s the sign of things to come (change and accountability from the President).
April 27th, 2006 at 4:15 pm“yes, in my country there are welfare and social security”
There is also double our unemployment rate, imagine how much less your taxes would be if that percantage was the same as ours, not only would their be more people chipping into the social services thru taxation, there would also be an equivalant amount less pulling from the social services funds due to having a job to provide for their needs.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:15 pm#134 One word: Sweden.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:17 pmSo your not in spain?
April 27th, 2006 at 4:18 pmGregor, Spector is considered a huge RINO by the right.
Comment by squegeeboo — April 27, 2006 @ 4:08 pm
Well, lately, anyone who doesn’t prostrate themselves in front of the Bush altar is either a traitor, or hates America. For the neo-cons and their apologists, conservatism equals saying “thank you” to whatever Pres Bush decides to throw at them -even if it gets them killed in a country thousands of miles away, in some messianic endeavor.
Old-fashioned conservatism has gone the way of the dodo. It no longer exists.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:23 pm#136 I’m in Spain, but the example of Sweden contradicts everything you’ve used to rebate the economic system in my country, Spain. Sweden has a very high taxation threshold (perhaps the highest in the world), has a powerful net of social services and welfare (proportionally bigger than any other in the world), have a killer standard of living, and their unemployement rate is under the USA one.
So, another world is possible, besides the “pool of sharks” model of the USA economy…
April 27th, 2006 at 4:23 pmWell, off to supper, time is running out :)
Good night (for me). Good afternoon (for a great number of YOUs).
April 27th, 2006 at 4:33 pmIn addition:
Swedish labor statistics:
Labor Force – - – - – - – - – 4.391.000
Unemployed(5.6%) – - – - – (245.000)
unemply programs – - – - – (130.000)
looks like their not counting a full 130,000 people, that puts their unemployment up at 8.5%, nearly 4 points higher than ours.
Enjoy super.
“Old-fashioned conservatism has gone the way of the dodo. It no longer exists.”
April 27th, 2006 at 4:43 pmAt the politician level I heartily agree.
#141 Your country does the same. You don’t count a whole lot of unemployees, and you don’t even have a tally of those out of the lists. So don’t compare apples with oranges (even if you don’t eat’em).
April 27th, 2006 at 4:50 pm#141 I specifically choose a smaller range, I only counted the labor force just like the US, if I counted total population between 16-64 sweden would be up at 26%, and the US would be at 20%
April 27th, 2006 at 4:53 pm(even if you don’t eat’em).
I would, but they make me gag, oh so horrible.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:54 pmI read all of these posts and came to the conclusion that you people who talked of being poor had no idea whatsoever what being poor was like.
I was born and raised in a small coal mining town in Southern Illinois. In the 20s and 30s my dad was getting one shift a week, first at $2.50 per day and later at $3 per day. That is about 9 bucks a month to raise a family of four.
There was no damn welfare in those days. There were soup lines and other help though. I remember as a kid of 8-10 years of age walking into town from the barrio where we lived in a dirt floor shack with no electricity or running water with a tow sack in hopes of scoring some food.
The “bean lines” as they were called gave out flour, beans, powdered milk and margarine. That was it, no meat, no bacon, no pork, no beef, no goat, no sheep. Nothing except beans and flour to make biscuits.
At times the powdered milk was rancid as was the margarine. Useless. What could you do? Nothing, just wait until the next time the bean line hit down town.
Funny thing about those bean lines. Even some of the wealthy people in townhired people to get in line for them and get the freebies meant for the poor. Those were the republicans. They would then do anything to get something for nothing, much as they are today.
I was born in a dirt floor shack, delivered by my aunt. Our shack faced the railroad tracks where the coal cars would sometimes come to a halt long enough for us kids to climb up onto the cars and throw lumps of coal off, just as big a lumps as we could handle.
Reading these posts I dont see anyone that was as poor as we were. Did it hurt me, degrade me? Not one bit.
April 27th, 2006 at 5:38 pmThey would then do anything to get something for nothing, much as they are today
long enough for us kids to climb up onto the cars and throw lumps of coal off, just as big a lumps as we could handle.
I like the story itself, helps to bring a true feeling of poor vs needing assistance and how much assistance one should get. You did decide to slam republicans for it though and then followed it up with you stealing, the only thing I didn’t like about it.
April 27th, 2006 at 5:57 pm“Even some of the wealthy people in townhired people to get in line for them and get the freebies meant for the poor. Those were the republicans.”
Sounds like the republicans were creating jobs in a destatute area, where their only reward was flour/beans and rancid milk.
Also, did you walk up hill to school both ways in 5 feet of snow, unlike us whippersnappers who don’t realise how good we have it? (sorry, couldn’t resist :)
April 27th, 2006 at 6:11 pm#146
Damn…you are one sick bastard.
April 27th, 2006 at 7:13 pmRyan,”Why are you STUPID enough to assume that those who CREATE JOBS are republicans.”
did you read the story Paul posted #144?
heres the important exceprt again
“Even some of the wealthy people in town hired people to get in line for them and get the freebies meant for the poor. Those were the republicans.”
In it he himself states it was the republicans paying people to stay in line, those are the jobs I was talking about.
April 28th, 2006 at 12:07 amRyan squeegy brain is still in college and stating all his lifes expierence…I remember when my parents ran down welfare, but stopped after my father was diagnosed with cancer and my mother had to sign up for welfare to help feed the family while my Dad under went surgery and Kemo theropy, my dad was self employed and didn’t make enough to build a large nest egg.
April 28th, 2006 at 12:18 am#142 I don’t know where you get the numbers, but your government CIA’s Factbook webpage states that difference of unemployment is only a tiny 0′9% between the USA and Sweden:
Sweden
USA
Sweden has a bit more unemployment, yes, but sorry, this facts demonstrate that a broad welfare system doesn’t bankrupt the economy.
Oh, and another important data: compare the levels of “Household income or consumption by percentage share”. This rate shows the distribution of wealth, and frankly, your country sucks when you’re poor.
And yet another better example of extended welfare and low unemployment:
Iceland
Wow! a 2.1% of unemployment. What was the one of the USA. Oh, yes, a 5.1%. So much for USA success based in predatory capitalism.
April 28th, 2006 at 5:58 am#153 Evil, yes, being poor does suck, thats part of the incentive to work harder and stop being poor. Google what the US and Sweden include/exclude from their unemployment statistics not just the final number. Thats how I got the 8% and the 20/26%’s. Iceland’s is amazing though, I think that its lower then what the full employment rate in the US is considered to be.
#151 The problem is that your original post implies republicans create jobs – which is in general a big fat – bahahaha….
Ryan,
Paul said so himself that they were employing people to stand in line. Sounds like a job to me. In addition, its closer to charity then to corruption. Those people must have been getting payed more then the value of the food they were waiting on, otherwise what is the point in standing in line all day for a net loss. Your the one with the econ. degree, so you should realise that no prob.
Beyond that, whatever the reality of who creates jobs or not in general is, my post, and pauls had nothing to do with the generalizations on that level, but just his specific story, and generalizations he made about the circumstancies in that story.
“The intellectual and social maturity of reichwingers is really sad.”
April 28th, 2006 at 8:44 amIt might not be high, but our social maturity is at least higher then yours, judging by the petty insults and slurs you can’t seem to stop yourself from including in every post that deals with a right wing position.
#153 Evil, yes, being poor does suck, thats part of the incentive to work harder and stop being poor. Google what the US and Sweden include/exclude from their unemployment statistics not just the final number. Thats how I got the 8% and the 20/26%’s. Iceland’s is amazing though, I think that its lower then what the full employment rate in the US is considered to be.
First, I said that being poor sucks SPECIALLY IN YOUR COUNTRY. And if sucks, is better to help those in need than to let them succeed by themselves, or else, your society becomes a more hostile one, and those who don’t progress can become delinquents. And by simple fairness. And the numbers of the CIA are compensated ones, already.
April 28th, 2006 at 12:26 pmWeight Loss Pill Identifier Pills
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 14th, 2008 at 12:18 pmFree Employment Legal Advice
Hi – just wanted to say good design and blog -
March 14th, 2008 at 12:59 pmWeight Loss Low Carbohydrate Diet The Zone Diet
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 14th, 2008 at 4:36 pmNadia
I just wanted to write to say that you have a great site and a wonderful resource for all to share.
March 14th, 2008 at 11:46 pmRosamond
inspires them. In this sense everything that comes from love is a miracle.
March 16th, 2008 at 4:23 amHealth Insurance California Health Insurance Michigan Health Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 17th, 2008 at 3:07 amCash Advance Shopping
This article sounds well, but how everything is related together?
March 17th, 2008 at 1:18 pmcard debit student
I found your post by searching Google. Very informative. I have similar updates on my site and I hope you don’t mind if I include this in my own site.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:16 pmSuccessful Weight Loss Program
‘%KEYWORD%’ and more about weight loss
March 17th, 2008 at 10:20 pmFlorida Home Insurance Companies
Can it be that your server is infected with a virus – I get an Virus warning when I open your site with Firefox – Just for your Info.
March 18th, 2008 at 1:18 amInsurance Small Business Health Insurance Nationwide Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 18th, 2008 at 2:42 amJack
Learn all you can by reading the following article
March 18th, 2008 at 8:38 amInsurance Automobile Insurance Home Owners Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 18th, 2008 at 9:28 pmHealth Insurance Gulf Breeze Insurance Flood Insurance
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 23rd, 2008 at 9:06 pmMark
I just wanted to say that the quality of your site is exceptional. On top of all that it really complements the content that is provided by your site.
March 24th, 2008 at 9:04 amLily
The more you are willing to accept responsibility for your actions, the more credibility you will have.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:26 amcard counseling credit debt services
March 27th, 2008 at 5:08 pmYoung Girls Young Teens Angus Young
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
March 28th, 2008 at 4:52 pmsuites wc
Nice Post… do you know what is the first? Maybe You can se My Post Here
March 31st, 2008 at 10:58 amGreg
April 1st, 2008 at 5:13 amTim
April 1st, 2008 at 5:13 amMadalyn
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:20 amcolon high school michigan
All fiberscopes introduce a certain amount of image distortion; much of this is similar to the distortion of modern night vision
April 3rd, 2008 at 6:03 amflorida malpractice lawyers
Other lawyers advise insurance companies about the legality of insurance transactions, guiding the company in writing insurance policies to conform to the law and to protect the companies from unwarranted claims.
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:17 pmFederal Housing Administration Loan
Your blog makes very interesting reading. I’m sure others will think so too I look forward to reading their comments.
April 5th, 2008 at 7:41 amKds Bbs Pics Russian Child Models Ls Girls
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 5th, 2008 at 9:16 ambritain car insurance money save
I came across your site while I did a search on Google for %KEYWORD% and your article on %TITLE% was informative.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:22 amErin
Hats off to you my good man.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:07 pmAccounting Financial Financial Success
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 9th, 2008 at 2:08 pmAss Round Ass Tight Ass
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 10th, 2008 at 10:24 pmTeen Girls Black Teens Kiss Lesbian Teen
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 10th, 2008 at 10:34 pmAudrea
After surfing the web for hours, its really nice to someone with a brain about things i’m intested in. Thanks for the intellectual inter….your get the idea.
April 11th, 2008 at 6:25 amOlga
All I can say is WOW! Extremely nice layouts, awesome graphics and great articles. No matter how many times I come here, I am still impressed by the very professional appearance. Congratulations on a job well done.
April 13th, 2008 at 8:18 amTeen Girls Teen Mpeg Ass Teen
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 13th, 2008 at 9:28 pmProm Dresses Hat Hollister Clothing
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 14th, 2008 at 6:45 amDistance Learning Teachers Having Sex With Students Very Hot School Girls
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view
April 14th, 2008 at 10:59 amAll about Digimon Adventure Online Game. Digimon Adventure Fans Blog….
…Digimon is a small virtual pet. You can download and play an online RPG in the Digimon universe. It looks and feels like 2D graphic RPG adventure. You can train and level up your Digimon, make hundreds of quests, and travel through a huge universe a…
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 amShag Hairstyles and Haircuts…
shag hairstyle basically gotits name from the word “shaggy” since …once the hair is cutand layered it gives off a shaggy look. The shag hairstyle has always been apopular hairstyle, and there are plenty ofshag hairstyles to choose from…
April 3rd, 2009 at 3:37 pmArbonne skin care line overview…
Arbonne International is one of the main companies in the world when it comes to skin care. Its skin care product line is one of the best in the world that many women. The products of Arbonne skin care products are developed in Switzerland….
April 28th, 2009 at 11:08 am