VIDEO: Rumsfeld Called Out On Lies About WMD
Speaking in Atlanta today, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was sharply questioned about his pre-war claims about WMD in Iraq. An audience member confronted Rumsfeld with his 2003 claim about WMD, “We know where they are.” Rumsfeld falsely claimed he never said it. The audience member then read Rumsfeld’s quote back to him, leaving the defense secretary speechless. Watch it:
Of course, Rumsfeld did say he knew where the WMD were. From ABC’s This Week, 3/30/03:
STEPHANOPOULOS: And is it curious to you that given how much control U.S. and coalition forces now have in the country, they haven’t found any weapons of mass destruction?
SEC. RUMSFELD: …We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Read the full transcript HERE.
UPDATE: CNN reports that the questioner was 27-year CIA veteran Ray McGovern.
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OMG!
May 4th, 2006 at 3:32 pmAre the American people finally coming out of the ether and demanding answers from these criminals?
Maybe there is hope after all.
BTW, Zarqawi wasn’t with Al Queda before the war, so he wasn’t a target. What a red herring! And the troops didn’t determine there was WMD, it was Rumsfeld and Co. who ordered the troops to go into the situation with the impression that WMD would be used against them. Rumsfeld nearly choked on his own lies… so close!
May 4th, 2006 at 3:33 pmThere are a lot of “Thank You” sites out there, thanking people for speaking up. Will this gentlman get one as well?
1) http://thankyouharrytaylor.org/
May 4th, 2006 at 3:35 pm2) http://www.thankyoustephencolbert.org/
The man who asked these questions was so articulate, so well informed, so damn good! And, right now I am clapping my hands so loud to cheer Think Progress for finding this video. Definitely posting in our headline news section today……….
May 4th, 2006 at 3:37 pmpatriotdaily.com
Bravo Ray McGovern!
May 4th, 2006 at 3:37 pmThe questioner was that nutcase, Ray McGovern. You know, the guy who says the next terror attack on America would be done by Bush and the US government.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:38 pmAnd did anyone check to make sure the Defense Secretary’s pants weren’t on fire at the time?
May 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmHere is a comment I posted on Larry Johnson’s article on Talking Point Meno:
Delusional at The American Spectator
By Larry Johnson |
http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29413#comment
On May 2, 2006 - 11:56am EasyRider said:
Thanks Daniel, I think the whole war plan was laid out as photo-ops for the American public to be covered by the media. My opinion is based on the “What did they know” and “When did they know it.”
The administration wanted the greatest photo-op a war could bring. Everything this administration has done has been done for photo-ops and not for effective management or leadership, but for the image of being competent judged on the photo-op. Every opportunity available has been exploited to max for the Public Relation image of the administration. Every person where the president goes is checked out before he shows up. Every step is plan. The photo-op on the pile of Dead at ground-zero was staged down to being told stand on that pile, who the fireman with the blow horn is and where he will be, and to take the blow horn from the fireman. But back to the war plan based on the information that is coming out now the whole thing was a stage for Bush to play Commander-in-Chief with the whole invasion force as a backdrop.
Having been told that there was no WMD why was their use played up so much? Why did we handicap our military by forcing them to wear the Chem suits? The wearing of the Chem suits got lots of coverage. How many men and women died in combat because they were under orders to wear the chem suits while the administration knew there were no WMDs? Unneeded Chem suits are provided and are ordered to be worn, while the needed body armor, armored Humvees,. replacing combat troops with military police units, or retraining tank crews to be military police, and other needed equipment is not provided.
Everything this administration has done is for photo-ops, not national security or the security of our men and women in the military.
Demand the Truth for America
reply | write to author | link | Rated 4 by 2 users.
EasyRider
May 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmRUMSFELD: My words — my words were that — no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let him stay one second. Just a second.
From this statement it looks like security was moving in to scoop up the trouble maker.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmI dont’ think this will go to far though. If you parse his statements, he can say that he knew the locations of “suspected” WMD facilities. I am sure the 33 will choose to believe this.
Notice he used the word “somewhat” - now he will try to claim that meant he didn’t really know where they were… sicko.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmGreat that the questions are being asked, sad that it has taken so long, and so much death.
Rummy justed aged another 10 years.
Rummy is a liar! Liar, liar pants on fire!
May 4th, 2006 at 3:39 pmRumsfeld: “I’m not in the intelligence business.†Neither is anyone else in the Bush Administration.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:43 pmWhen will this nightmare be over….?
May 4th, 2006 at 3:44 pmIs anyone else surprised that Rummy is still able to meet with a room full of people that ‘boo’ those trying to hold his feet to the fire and applaud Rummy’s nonsensical responses….?
This person did an excellent job in asking these questions and following up on the lack of meaningful responses from Rummy. Rummy looked like an idiot using the troops’ beliefs and Powell’s presentation as evidence to support anything.
No responsibility, no credibility.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pmA thing of beauty!!!!
May 4th, 2006 at 3:46 pm#
The questioner was that nutcase, Ray McGovern. You know, the guy who says the next terror attack on America would be done by Bush and the US government.
Comment by Red and Karly Pyoub — May 4, 2006 @ 3:38 pm
Nice ad hominem attack. So his tough questioning of Don Rumsfeld, needs to be discounted, and Rumsfelds answers or lack of answers needs to be ignored. I can already see this on redstate,
Crazy liberal asks inane questions of our brave Defense Secretary.
I think it is great that McGovern is bringing to the fore every lie told by the Bush adminstration. I think it is great he is exposing them. I hope he and hundreds of others like him continue to push and shove until we have full accountability.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:50 pmAmazing. I am surprised this got some play on MSM.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:54 pmDemocracy for America has just announced it’s latest 3 DFA-List candidates and i am pleased to see that my candidate, Kirsten Gillibrand is one of them.
Kirsten has said that if elected she will immediately call for or support investigations into the Bush administrations lies and deceptions that led us into this ill-begotten war. She has also said that Rumsfeld ought to be replaced.
If we are to take control of the House of Representatives we will need a gain of 15 seats. Kirsten’s seat in NY-20 is the 15th seat. Please check her out and consider contributing if you can. We need to get rid of a particularly repugnant republican congressman in John Sweeney (R-Animal House) and can elect a fantastic woman at the same time by making sure Kirsten gets sent to congress in November.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:54 pmHe also said that he wasn’t in the intelligence business. Doesn’t the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agancy) work for him?
May 4th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#6 The questioner was that nutcase, Ray McGovern.
And “nutcase” would be your little pet name for a person who speaks the truth or points out that a lying sack of sh*t is indeed a lying sack of sh*t?
May 4th, 2006 at 3:56 pmWhy did rawstory call this guy a heckler? He seems to voice valid questions.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:58 pm]Once again, one of the leading deceivers of this criminal enterprise known as the Bush administration is caught dead to rights in a lie. Not to worry, though, no reporter will see fit to follow this embarrassing display up with a follow up grilling, nor will any mainstream print media expose this jackal for the lying, decrepit piece of cowardly sh** that he is. His boss and the 32% of morons that support him will not be moved. Come on November, come on Congressional elections, let’s defeat Diebold, and get the indictments going.
May 4th, 2006 at 3:59 pmRummy said that he wasn’t in the intelligence business. It’s too bad for him that McGovern was. Thanks for the clip.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:00 pmWow, and exactly 3 years to the day that Rummy gave his North-South-East-West declaration too…
May 4th, 2006 at 4:01 pmIT’S ABOUT DARN TIME! We want to hear what people are saying without their being called “hecklers.” This guy asked a reasonable question. We have been fed that lie about WMD a million times - directly and indirectly. We were fooled. We were lied to. It’s about time that some REAL questions were asked.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:02 pmWhat do you mean he isn’t in the Intelligence business. He is the Secretary of Defense. He is in charge of the Defense intelligence Agency and all of the intelligence agencies of the individual branches of the DOD.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:02 pmRumsfeld: Owned
May 4th, 2006 at 4:03 pmMajority of American People: Still Don’t have a friggin’ clue
That’s what we call a non sequitor!
Yes, can we PLEASE start educatign the American people how to see through the b.s.?
Carl Sagan’s b.s. detector kits for everyone this Christmas (err, holiday season)!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:04 pmWho are these people booing? Did the plant cheerleaders in the event like they do for Bush?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pmRay mcGovern should be more switched on to the statement by Rumfeld that ” Saddam used Chemical weapons on His own people ”
While the United States did not supply full-fledged chemical weapons to Iraq, it did approve private business sales of biological weapon precursors to Iraq, according to a 1994 report issued by the US Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs (aka the Riegle Report.) It should be noted that the report does not provide proof of U.S. involvement in Iraqi chemical weapons and that the gas attack was carried out by Mustard gas and not a biological weapon. In addition, there is no evidence that Iraq ever used biological weapons in combat during the war with Iran.
The US also provided satellite photographs and battlefield intelligence to Iraq which it knew was to be used in “calibrating” Iraqi chemical weapons attacks against Iran Furthermore, the US provided dual use helicopters, ostensibly for crop spraying, which intelligence sources believe were used to deploy the chemical weapons in Halabja
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Halabja_poison_gas_attack
May 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pmI’m glad he pointed out Rumsfeld’s non-sequitor, that the troops war protective gear because they “believed” they would encounter chemical weapons. The point is they believed it because he lied.
Pity that Rumsfeld counts on the public not knowing the term non-sequitor.
I may even be spelling it wrong. “er”?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pmcorrection “they”
May 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pmI am just FUMING at Rumsfeld, the crowd, and the people that tried to remove the individual who asked the question. Usually it’s just a low-boiling anger at this type of stuff but man I am steamed. What a grade A douchebag!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:07 pm[…] QUESTION: So I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people, why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary, that has caused these kinds of casualties? why? […]
May 4th, 2006 at 4:08 pmsquirm, squirm, squirm
Avoid the question…
How the HELL did that guy get in here…
hehehe
May 4th, 2006 at 4:09 pmGood for Ray McGovern and the others disrupting Rummy’s flapping of the lips. This should happen every single time anyone from this administration speaks in front of an audience.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:10 pm#21, it is to attempt to make people have the perception that the person should not be taken seriously. The MSM and the so called administration do it all the time.
Personally I feel this guy is another true Patriot. Those that don’t fear speaking the truth to power. In the company of those like Cindy Sheehan, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Thomas Jefferson, F.D. Rosevelt and Stephen Colbert.
Dumbsfailed was speechless when the guy used his quote to correct the “great and powerful” dumbsfailed.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:11 pmSince Dems and Repubs knew Saddam to have used WMD’s - I think Ray McGovern (any relation to failed dove-candidate, George McGovern???) was a “book looking for a title”. Simply put - his extreme left wing agenda is his agenda - he illustrates the beauty of democracies. Of course, he wouldn’t be able to ask a second question of a similar nature in Saddam’s Iraq, Stalin’s USSR, Mao’s China or Ho’s Viet Nam….
May 4th, 2006 at 4:11 pm#21
May 4th, 2006 at 4:14 pmThat’s a good point. Why use the word heckler? If he was a heckler wouldn’t he just say something like “Hey Rummy, Rummy, Rummy…LIAR!” Sounded like pretty civil questioning to me.
So what that Zarqawi was in Iraq. That’s supposed to be proof positive of a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam? That’s like saying because the 9/11 terrorists were here in the USA, that proves a link between them and Bush.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:14 pm#42, you don’t know how right you are with your last sentence.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:16 pmThe way it goes id:
Rumsfeld decides. He’s a decider.
The spinners spin.
The press types.
then, most importantly…the press pushed the delete button when the decider decides to send it down the memery hole.
Someone forgot the last step.
Press delete and it never happened, right?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:18 pmLet’s just move along folks. Nothing to see here. MA has given us all the talking points. It’s nice to know that holding our government accountable for lies that have led us into an unnecessary war is an “extreme left wing agenda”. Apparently right wingers don’t care why we go to war as long as they get to kill something.
MA is not human it is a mutant.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:18 pmOf course, he wouldn’t be able to ask a second question of a similar nature in Saddam’s Iraq, Stalin’s USSR, Mao’s China or Ho’s Viet Nam….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 4, 2006 @ 4:11 pm
…or, for that matter, in a George W. Bush 2004 campaign event.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:18 pm“Nutcase”
Do you have to be a “nutcase” to believe the government is capable of murder and a cover-up? Is that so far beyond the realm of possibility? With a name like “Red”, I can only assume that you grew up in the good ole US of A. If you’ve been alive for the past 50 years, have you been paying attention?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:19 pm#40, and you think Mr. McGovern (relationship irrelavent to this discussion, if it even exists) will get a chance to ask Rumsfeld or any administration official a second question here?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:19 pmMighty weak, Aphrodite.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:20 pmDoesn’t it hurt that your heros are liars?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:20 pmOf course, he wouldn’t be able to ask a second question of a similar nature in Saddam’s Iraq, Stalin’s USSR, Mao’s China or Ho’s Viet Nam….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 4, 2006 @ 4:11 pm
… or, for that matter, at a George W. Bush 2004 campaign event.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:21 pmI like how other sources frame him as a “protestor.” He is just a concerned citizen. I don’t believe he was holding a sign or picketing to make him a “protestor.”
May 4th, 2006 at 4:22 pmmore importantly, MA, how does it feel being part of the mere 32%. I’d watch your back if I were you.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:22 pmNo decent, must not have decent. Screen all attendees, no decentors, no thoughtful questions, no hardballs.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:23 pmI highly recommend reading “American Hiroshima” by David Dionisi. In this book he talks about “Operation Northwoods.” For all those right-wing fanatics that believe anything and everything this corrupt and immoral Administration tells you, take the time to read this book. You will find actual official U.S. documents that were declassified that pertain to what the US planned to do to engage Cuba during the Cuban Missle Crisis. You will see that their plans very much mirror what we are hearing in regards to Iran and may very well have occurred on 9/11. Read the book, and then let’s talk. I really want to know what you think after having read these official documents.
This book is now a play being shown in England and the rights to make a movie have been purchased. I believe that this author and former military intelligence officer will in the near future receive the Nobel Peace Prize.
It should be required reading for every American.
ladyfrancesca
May 4th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI remember Rumsfeld’s original remark.
I also remember another quote from him, where he was called on this lie. He said, “Sometimes, I exaggerate for effect.” I don’t have the exact date, but it was sometime late 2003.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI listened to the audio of this right after it happened. Words cannot describe how frozen Dumbfailed was in his shoes when the line of questioning began. It was absolutely amazing. This guy took it right to him like any of us would have wanted to do. The good little brown shirts in the crowd were hand picked Nazis with sworn allegiance to The Party. Their applause whenever Dumbsfailed weakly fought back was not only desparate, but embarrassing.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:27 pmHEH! I love that Rumsfeld made the questioner look foolish! Notice how the audience was cheering and applauding Rumsfeld. I wonder how the questioner felt knowing that he had made a fool out of himself???
May 4th, 2006 at 4:27 pm#57 and #58 go great together…lol.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:29 pm36 years ago today, the Kent State Massacre
May 4th, 2006 at 4:29 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
Why would Runsfeld, Cheney etal, leave finding WMDs to chance. Why not plant them?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:30 pmThey sold Saddam everything he had. I suppose they figured he would have plenty of evidence still around.
Was Saddam smart enough to have seen this play coming and get rid of all the evidence? Were our best and brightest out maneuvered at their own game?
All I can say is, more money for defense annually than the rest of the world combined sure doesn’t buy what it used to.
#40 uses the tried and true fallback, that someone who protests a policy with skill should be proud to be in the US because elsewhere, he wouldn’t be allowed to do so. Therefore, the reasoning goes, any criticisms are paltry compared to the greater truth, that the USA is #1. Ironically, of course, the person WAS about to be forcibly ejected, you know, just like in Stalin-Mao-etc land. Oh, before our freedom-loving Sect of Defense stepped in to give him one more sentence, that could also be dodged. Yep, with US Govt officials, we are free to ask anything and get no answer.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:30 pm“Not in the intelligence business.” Frame, anyone?
That sorry response to vigerous questioning was a dramatic indicator that Rumsfeld has not a vestige of a shred of decency in him, doesn’t have a leg to stand on, and is lost in the woods. Woe betide us.
I loved how McGovern was nearly thrown out of the venue by “security” for asking pointed questions. “Getting quite a bit of play…” Jesus, Rumsfeld thinks it’s all about attention and camera time, that preening fop. Can that SOB now!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:31 pmAwful anti-perspirant. I can smell the fear from here, right down the cable and into my office.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:31 pmRumsfeld ALSO said the evidence was “bullet proof” like the CIA analyst in the audience pointed out to him. Rumsfeld LIED his ass off and the red stater sycophantic audience ass kissers applauded him! I hope the audience is proud of themselves for applauding someone spewing baldfaced lies to them! I can’t believe people are so desperate to think “Happy thoughts” about someone like Rumsfeld that they will blindly applaud and moan and groan with someone like that brave CIA analysts speaks the TRUTH TO POWER!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:31 pmThe WMD’s were found west of Bahgdad. About 7000 miles west of Bahgdad in a secret undisclosed location called Washington DC (home of snakes.) A very mythical and mysterious place indeed. A place were truth and reality are just buzz words for lies and deceit. Yes Mr. Bumsfield you sir are a liar. A tragic farce that we Americans are left to deal with and pay for long after your name will mean nothing more than that soft paper we wipe our bungs with. In a better time Dumsfield you sir would be run out of the country with nothing but your pathetic comedy of errors.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pmMr McGovern just earned himself a permanent 86 from future gatherings. His heart must have been pounding…
Kudos - I hope the trend continues.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThe caption here is correct, however over at Raw Story linking here, the title says “Heckler Interrupts Rumsfeld” which incorrectly suggests McGovern was the heckler. Actually a woman was escorted out before the audience questioning began, for interrupting Rumsfeld during his speech. She was the “heckler” not Mr. McGovern.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:33 pmAh, I see the questioner was Ray McGovern…Heh! We all remember who ole Ray is, don’t we?
“The session took an awkward turn when witness Ray McGovern, a former intelligence analyst, declared that the United States went to war in Iraq for oil, Israel and military bases craved by administration “neocons” so “the United States and Israel could dominate that part of the world.” He said that Israel should not be considered an ally and that Bush was doing the bidding of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2005/ 06/ 16/ AR2005061601570.html
May 4th, 2006 at 4:34 pmYes—truly, the questioner looked like a fool. When a 30 year veteran of our intelligence services asks a perfectly reasonable question of an official and receives a stuttering, stammering, non-answer, yes—truly it is the questioner that looks foolish.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pmThe Republican party drinks the blood of American soldiers for breakfast. I will fiddle when Rome burns.
[…] Donald Rumsfeld came under fire today in a speech he was making in Atlanta, GA. Think Progress has the video. Brave American! Nice work. […]
May 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pmSorry # 55, the people who need convincing don’t know how to read… or refuse to believe words n black and white!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pmDuh, OF COURSE 9/11 was an inside job! Now if only we had some proof on video…
The Colbert Revolution Begins!!!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pmAnd CNN (Wolfie) went and looked it up and CONFIRMED Rumsfield had said those things!!!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:39 pmYay!!!!!
Exley can’t get it…it doesn’t matter who McG is. He asked some questions that were important and reasonable and got nothing but fakery in response. Let’s imagine the impossible, that Rummy for some reason would have answered the questions with complete candor. Admitting fixing the intelligence around the policy, etc. “We just were determined to bring down Saddam” kind of thing. The Exleys and the mighty 32% would have howled that it was the liberal medias fault for tricking Rummerooni or some other such nonsense. Gradually, more and more citizens have been realizing a little about what’s been up all along, but there will always be the Exleys, God love em.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:40 pmColbert got it started. Let’s keep it going. These people have a lot of questions to answer; and their answers will all be impeachable offenses.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:40 pmAnd anyone focusing too much on Mr. McGovern, shouldn’t forget another logical fallacy beyond the non sequitur Rumsfeld was called on — namely attacking the messenger, not the message.
Anyone needing a refresher on ad hominem attacks:
May 4th, 2006 at 4:40 pm[…] From Think Progress via tipster HelpMeImpeachBush. Full transcript here. Video uploaded to YouTube to spare them bandwidth and for those with QuickTime problems. […]
May 4th, 2006 at 4:41 pmHey, Exley, would you consider someone with McGovern’s decades-long experience and access to classified military information a sound background for asserting his opinion? Or is that the resume of a “liberal agitator”?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:41 pmBy the way, would you consider an ally someone who disguises themselves and bombs your warships? Ever hear of the USS Liberty?
#6 Nutcase
Open your eyes. For so long I refused to believe that there was even a shred of a possibility that our government was capable of lying to us to achieve their goals. I thought all my democrat friends were just left wing moonbats. So someone challenged me to find out about the Project for a New American Century (PNAC) and Operation Northwoods, and the Aspen Institute. The more I researched the more I realized that I had been a fool.
There are things I don’t agree with regarding the Democratic Platform, but more important, I will not accept or allow my elected leaders to lie to me. This administration HAS LIED to the American people. He has betrayed not only his own party, but every single person in this country.
I once thought like you. Based on what I know now I have re-registered as an independent. I’ve been a republican for over 40 years but I love my country more than any party. I became ashamed to call myself a republican. I fell for the lies hook, line and sinker. I believed all the rhetoric about being a patriot by supporting the President.
Please don’t fall for the lies. Being patriotic means standing up for what is right regardless of what party is in power.
This administration will use nuclear weapons against Iran. It would have already happened had it not been for Hurricane Katrina which interrupted the invasion they planned.
Our democracy and way of life is at stake. Stop listening to the words and the rhetoric. Read the Bill of Rights and Constitution. Look at their actions!!!! Don’t let them scare you into believing that they need to violate your rights to make you safe. These people are very dangerous, not just to America but to the entire world.
PLEASE, I implore you. Do your own personal research. Turn off the right wing propaganda radio. Read everything on the net that you can find - both the right aned the left. When you compare it for yourself, there is no other conclusion that you can come to…these bastards are out for total domination. Is that what you want?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:42 pmhttp://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/attack.php
May 4th, 2006 at 4:43 pm*sniff* hmm… *sniff*
Is that… DEMOCRACY I smell…?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:43 pm#46 & 51 - “…or, for that matter, in a George W. Bush 2004 campaign event. ” - Comment by BalRog
****Dear Mr/Ms Rocket - How many dissenters did GWB have executed after an ‘04 campaign event?? Oh,”clever” vitriol?? Perhaps in the future you would do better to restrict your comparisons to something relevant…
#50 -”Doesn’t it hurt that your heros are liars?” - Comment by progressive and proud
May 4th, 2006 at 4:44 pm*****Dear PP - Not as much as having heroes who are rapists or drunk cowards who leave single women to die in underwater cars….
1. Zarqawi was in Iraq - FACT
2. Zarqawi was a relious extremist - FACT
3. Saddaam didn’t like relious extremist, because his government was secular - FACT
4. Bush knew where he was - FACT
5. Zarqawi was in the remote parts of Northern Iraq - FACT
6. Zarqawi was beyond the no-fly zone and Saddam couldn’t get to him - FACT
7. Bush could have taken out Zarqawi for over a year before the war started - FACT
8. Bush choose NOT to take out Zarqawi because it would have weakened his case for war - FACT
Saying that Zarqawi was in Iraq does not add justification for the war, it just shows how weak their justifications were!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:44 pmHenny Penny the sky is falling. Citizens are calling Dr. StrangeRumsfeld out on his inept warmongering.
Heckuva job onion nuts.
-GSD
May 4th, 2006 at 4:45 pm#72 - if you want video proof that 9/11 was an inside job, see ‘911 Loose Change’ on Google video… an excellent documentary that contains lots of damning video.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:45 pmRumsfeld Rendered Speechless with His Own Words from 2003…
Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern confronted Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld with his own statements from 2003. The silence from Donald Rumsfeld after McGovern recited a quote from the May 4, 2003 This Week with George Stephanopolous is pure gold.
…..
May 4th, 2006 at 4:45 pm#80 Your impassioned plea does not fall on deaf ears. But sadly, the human animal is subject to a slow evolutionary trajectory—particularly when it comes to the evolution of consciousness. People like Exley have the seeds of their own (and unfortunately, our) destruction plugged into their DNA. Ignorance begets ignorance ad nauseum, and you could show them the light and they will still call it darkness. Again, I will fiddle when their Rome burns……
May 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pm#83 Strange thing for someone named Aphrodite to post…
May 4th, 2006 at 4:46 pmKeep hitting these lying murduring war criminal bastards. They played us for fools and destroyed our country and Iraq. They are LIARS. WAR CRIMINALS IMPEACH them NOW
May 4th, 2006 at 4:47 pmExley whom ever you may be you should remember the old saying about it walking and talking like a duck so therefore it must be…a duck. Well Wee wily rumsfeld talks and walks like a liar so therefore it must be the Ray McGoverns fault. Solid logic my good man/woman/it whatever or whomever you are. It is time to face reality for the 30% still believing in this insane administration we have. These clowns have not done one right thing since they stole the election in 2000 (and they did steal it to that much is fact.)
May 4th, 2006 at 4:48 pmExley if you wish to disagree with me I say good prove me wrong name one (just one) good thing these jackboot morons have done for America, just one little thing.
It was from March 30, 2003, not May 4. At least, that’s what the link TP provides says.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:48 pm#31 yes they totally planted die hard supporters. you ehar everyone rip into applause when rummy sai d”i didnt lie” normal mix of common folk wouldnt applause over something like that… it was such crap.. man that guy drilled rummy. i love it!!!
#2 excellent point!!!!!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:49 pm#83 your hero ronald reagan supported saddam after saddam executed all his political opponents. remember that?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:49 pm#58
May 4th, 2006 at 4:50 pmFunny all I heard was a bunch of sycophants cheering pathetically when the person they were sucking up to was confronted by his own lies.
That’s what the right does…attack the messenger when the messenger bears the truth. The right can’t handle the truth because it means they have to come out of their massive denial and admit they were wrong. Being wrong is something their ego’s cannot handle. So, as the far right does, when someone asks a legitimate question, they are referred to as a “nutcase.” Well, if that is indeed the case, then the majority of Americans are nutcases because the majority of Americans know we were lied into this war and we are being lied into another one that will be catastrophic.
In the future, people will look back and be ashamed that they remained silent when they could have or should have spoken out while others will be ashamed that they were nothing more than sheep. I applaud those critical, independent thinkers that have the courage to speak truth to power. God Bless You!
Pro-American = Anti-Bush!!!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:50 pmSee Exley, #58, you’re starting to get it! Your comment is a great example of a non sequitur!
Who knows, if you keep up this whole critical thinking spurt, next thing you’ll be saying is that there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11. Shoot for the stars, Exley!
;-)
May 4th, 2006 at 4:50 pmHilarious!!!!!! Someone actually thinks that Mary Jane Kopechne was “left to drown” by her drunken cohort and wasn’t murdered first (for knowing too much about Kennedy/Mafia connections–which are the same connections as CIA/Republican/Mafia connections), then placed in the car to make it look like a tragic “accident”.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:51 pmJanuary 26, 1998
“We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps (to attach Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein).”
Parentheses mine.
PNAC Letter to Clinton, signed by Donald Rumsfeld and many other major players in the lead up to the Iraq war.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm
Did Rumsfeld lie? Of course he did.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:51 pmTexmex-
If you noticed, on Blitzer’s The Situation Room, Blitzer had on J.C. Watts and Paul Begala, an alleged liberal, who noted that while some on the left have called for Bush’s impeachment, he reminded viewers that “he [Bush] has a four year, no-cut contract, and should not be fired”. Apparently, the word accountability is not part of Begala’s vocabulary. True liberals may see little difference between Begala and conservatives.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:53 pmRumsfeld is a horrible criminal liar who must resign or be charged for crimes against humanity! He looks very upset in the pic on this TP thread and he should be! I live near Atlanta, in Georgia, and we dislike the entire Bush Regime membership! They are all war criminals!!!
May 4th, 2006 at 4:54 pm#58 You see what you want to, we here are going for reality. Too bad there isn’t a nice pill for you to take to be able to understand this concept.
Rumsfeld stood there frozen with no answer. Did you hear the stumbling, the ah ah ahs, the lack of words? He failed miserably in Iraq and is responsibible for my friend’s death. You prop up foolish cowards and liars.
Can you deny he lied? When he stated that he did not ever say he knew where WMDs were in Tikrit when there is proof he did, he lied.
Lied I tells ya.
May 4th, 2006 at 4:57 pmMore from good ole’ Ray:
I have initials for why I think we went to war in Iraq,” McGovern said. “O.I.L. O-I-L, O is for oil, I is for Israel and L is for logistics, as in when we have Iraq we have a foothold and a number of bases strategically placed in the Middle East so we can be in control over there and also to protect Israel.”
Yes, Ray…It was all the Israelis’ doing! HEH! Ray says “O.I.L”…Well, he is a “K.O.O.K.”
May 4th, 2006 at 4:59 pmHenry Kissinger once said, “Of all the despots I’ve had to deal with, none was more ruthless than Donald Rumsfeld.”
May 4th, 2006 at 5:01 pmRay McGovern is a good man who worked for the CIA for 27 years, so he knows what he is talking about! Rummy knows McGovern so he should not have been rattled by his question, but was caught red-handed in lying, so kudos to Ray! Bush loving trolls on here should be ashamed to call him names for proving Rumsfeld a bald faced liar!
May 4th, 2006 at 5:02 pmDear dis-HONEST abe - Your comparisons are poor-at-best. I think the best an expelled dissenter could expect from the totalitarians I listed was “re-education/proaganda camp”, torture, and/or death. Your alias is telling - but not truthful….
Dear hippie - Put down the bong - - your ability to retain info gets worse and worse every day… Of course, you forgot the old saying, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”…
May 4th, 2006 at 5:02 pmPolitical language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful;
and murder respectable;
and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind:
George Orwell
May 4th, 2006 at 5:03 pm#105 What does that have to do with Rumsfeld’s lies?
Does that prove Rumsfeld never said he knew where the WMDs were?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:03 pmIf the criteria for Zarqawi being “linked” to Saddam is simply being in Iraq then I have some great photos of Rummy in Iraq shaking hands with dictator. Based on transitory properties I guess Rummy is part of AlQueda.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:05 pm#80 - Well said, once_a_republican. I hope you continue to commenter here.
This is a quote for those you are appealing to:
Faced with the choice between changing one’s mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:05 pm-John Kenneth Galbraith
#108 You mean I got it wrong… Reagan did not support Saddam? Didn’t sell him weapons? Rumsfeld never shook his hand? Ok. We’ll disagree there.
I remember that old saying you mention. I also remember it is the #1 source of blowback. Al Qaeda was the enemy of my enemy in the 1980s. Reagan supported them too.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:06 pmThey not only lied to us about the WMD but also to the troops. I wonder how many died because they were wearing those rubber suits.
Deliberately giving false intelligence to the troops in time of war is close to, if not actually, treason. The question should be put to a jury.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:07 pmmighty aphrodite is simply too uneducated, too poorly informed, and has little relevant life experience to be able to post on this forum with any sense of authority. People like that, with little to bring to the table, are better off ignored.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:07 pmJust for fun:
1. Mohamed Atta was in America - FACT
May 4th, 2006 at 5:08 pm2. Mohamed Atta was a religious extremist - FACT
3. Bush did likes religious extremist, because he is an religious extremist and is against his secular government - FACT
4. Bush knew where Mohamed Atta was (FBI)- FACT
5. Mohamed Atta was in the metro parts of America - FACT
6. Mohamed Attai was taking-flying lessons and Bush would not get to him - FACT
7. Bush could have taken out Mohamed Atta for over a year before the 9/11 - FACT
8. Bush choose NOT to take out Mohamed Atta because it would have weakened his case for Missile defense- FACT
Rumsfeld looked like a dottering old man. HE was caught in a lie and he did not even have the humility to admit it, he just kept lying.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:09 pmZoopooper - Have’nt they buried that old socialist Galbraith yet???
May 4th, 2006 at 5:09 pm“The enemy of my enemy is my friend” makes for a stupid foreign policy. Once your common enemy is vanquished, your new “friend” will just go back to being your enemy again. It is very lacking in the long-term thinking department. Dialogue and education will do more good any day than simply trying to kill them. Why do conservatives want the world to go on killing each other? When will you make it stop?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:09 pmLies, damned lies, and Rumsfeld.
It is unbelievable and pathetic that the Secretary of Defense can, indeed in a non sequitur, say that American troops wore chemical weapons suits because they believed there were chemical weapons going to be used against them.
The troops did not make any decisions. They were ORDERED to do whatever they did, and the orders came from above, and ultimately Rumsfeld.
Why oh why can’t reporters asks questions as pointed as those asked in this clip?
And Rumsfeld is lying about the CIA, since the CIA was badgered into giving him the information he wanted, packaged the way he wanted it. Has everyone forgotten his unprecedented series of visits to Langley?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pm#80 WTG! The truth is out there! It just can’t be found listening to Rush or Sean, watching Fox, or checking out the RNC site~
May 4th, 2006 at 5:10 pmAphrodite, I think that the difference is that we know that the few political figures whom we look up to are human, who have made mistakes, sometimes really big ones. I don’t think that most of the liberals/progressives here have political “heroes.” The die-hard righties seem to believe that every word out of the mouths of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice is gospel and blessed by a higher authority.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pmFlighty Aphid: The right of Americans to question those in authority was won long before Rumsfeld press conference today. I believe that would be somewhere around the late 18th century, could it be 1776. Never compare the rights of Americans with those in Russia, China or anyother country you wish to use in your comments. If ignorance is bliss, ‘Tis folly to be wise”.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#119…So, The United States and FDR were wrong to ally themselves with the USSR in World War II to stop Hitler????
May 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pmThis has made my day:) #108 you need to take a refresher course on the 1980’s when America was in love with Saddam Hussein ..Lots of bioweapons and chemweapons were sold to him.Lots of planes,guns,bombs…there’s a pic of rummy smiling and shaking hands with Saddam.
I love reading that transcript ..hahahahaha Busted rummy!
May 4th, 2006 at 5:11 pmWayne, Republicans’ energy policy, fiscal policy, and choice of allies show very little regard for long term thinking. Long term thinking is too “elitist” for them.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:12 pmThe lies are wearing thinner with every passing day. The country was hoodwinked into this conflict of choice. Zarqawi was a suspect in the Kurdish part of Iraq which Saddam had no control over. This is one bit of “intelligence” that was actually acurate but nothing was done to take him out. He was not a memeber of al Qeada before the start of the war. Check out the transcript regarding is comment about knowing exactly where WMD were located. It sure played well for the American public and they ate it up. Keep up the questioning of our leadership…some reasonable people may begin to listen.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:13 pmThanks #99 for making it plain that the spelling is ‘-ur’ for the Latin expression. Now if we could just absorb the meaning of the phrase, as a nation carpet-bombed with them by Bush apaologists. The high school and Philosophy 101 lessons concernign the forms and use of propaganda seem to have either bouced off the obdurate American brain-pan or been take as permission to use them in every argument so as to waste more time and confuse more people–the better to score a win for the true dynastic family of our century, the Bushes. ( i hope you will recall that two of the other supposed ‘dynasty’–never realized, incidentally–were murdered by ‘lone gunmen’. Sure. And no one here helped Osama. Right.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:13 pm[…] Via Think Progress […]
May 4th, 2006 at 5:17 pmhttp://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/Backg/Rumsfeld-Saddam.jpg
May 4th, 2006 at 5:17 pm#108 Your bad grammar is really annoying. What year are you in? Bongs? Dude, you are in the wrong decade and it shows.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:17 pmYou, sir, are a true patriot. Thank you!
May 4th, 2006 at 5:19 pm#100 Sober up buddy. And please don’t drive, if you have a license.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:19 pm#118 - Any day now, your point Mighty Hag of the Idiots?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:19 pmActually, #125, that is incorrect. The US did not provide Iraq with weaponry in the 1980s and in fact criticized Iraq’s use of chemical weapons against Iran. You are citing myth, not history:
“Rumsfeld affirmed the Reagan administration’s “willingness to do more” regarding the Iran-Iraq war, but “made clear that our efforts to assist were inhibited by certain things that made it difficult for us, citing the use of chemical weapons, possible escalation in the Gulf, and human rights.” Rumsfeld returned to Baghdad in late March 1984. By this time, the U.S. had publicly condemned Iraq’s chemical weapons use, stating, “The United States has concluded that the available evidence substantiates Iran’s charges that Iraq used chemical weapons” [Document 47]. Briefings for Rumsfeld’s meetings noted that atmospherics in Iraq had deteriorated since his December visit because of Iraqi military reverses and because “bilateral relations were sharply set back by our March 5 condemnation of Iraq for CW use, despite our repeated warnings that this issue would emerge sooner or later”
May 4th, 2006 at 5:19 pm#135 - Back that up with a link, please.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:23 pm# 80 Once a Republican is right on the money! Not only Republicans should consider what he is saying but every american should do the same. We should do what he
May 4th, 2006 at 5:25 pmsay’s, or we are doomed and our republic will be history!
My pleasure. It is from George Washington University’s National Security Archive:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
May 4th, 2006 at 5:27 pmExley, You so cwazy!
U.S.-Iraqi arms transfers in the Iran-Iraq war
May 4th, 2006 at 5:29 pmIt truly scares me, to this day, that we live under an administration that would benefit from a terrorist attack.
I think he’s going to claim the quote was ‘out of context’ or something.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:30 pmExley if I remember correctly, while Washington had condemded the use of chemical weapons, they were privately supporting Saddam Hussien and Iraq. This support included money, chemicals, and I believe helicopters. It wasn’t until it was apparent that Saddam might succeed in Iran, that Reagan authorized the sale of arms to Iran to keep the balance in the middle east.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:31 pm#135
Actually, you are misinformed. Unlike you, I’ll provide a few links to back up what I say:
U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup
Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ ac2/ wp-dyn/ A52241-2002Dec29?language=printer
How did Iraq get its weapons? We sold them
http://www.sundayherald.com/27572
Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement
http://www.iranchamber.com/ history/ articles/ arming_iraq.php
COVER STORY: How he US armed Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2002/506/506p12.htm
UNDERSTANDING THE U.S.-IRAQ CRISIS:
The History of U.S.-Iraq Relations
http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/primer4.htm
Gee that was hard. Took three minutes to research online in google. Are you done trying to distract fron the issue of Rumsfeld’s pre lies about WMD or do you need to prove your ignorance again?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:33 pmWell defended Rumsfield!
All the whiny, miserable lefty commentors here are dumbasses.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:33 pmAphrodite at 83, it says a great deal to me that you have to dig up totalitarian dictatorships to find worse examples of freedom of speech than those practiced by the Bush administration. The use of “Free Speech Zones” and the arresting of demonstrators at public events is almost unprecedented in American history. Is the fact that this administration has not had it’s critics put to death REALLY the baseline for freedom? How far do we have to fall before you stop saying “Really, this isn’t so bad”?
It might surprise you that the United States is not the only nation in the world where dissent and freedom from torture and murder are the norm. We aren’t even as “free” as many of these nations anymore, thanks to the Bush administration’s punitive efforts of stifling dissent through arrests and dropped charges.
Bettter to Judge America by the standards and ideals we hold, than by the worst of the worst.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:33 pmthis is DR’s typical MO–he’ll definitively and decisively say, “i never said thus and such!” usually, this tactic works, especially when no one has the record handy and he sounds so adamant. but OCCASIONALLY, he’ll get tripped up, like he did here, and a couple years ago on one of the talking heads shows on sunday morning when he denied using the phrase “imminent threat.” what a little turd of a man…
May 4th, 2006 at 5:33 pmMA
I’ve had to read WAY too many of your zero content posts. You bring absolutely nothing to the table. Why are you here? ( besides the obvious eye poking )
You are such a blind troll - Please admit it to us all, that there isnt ANYTHING BushCo has done, or can do, that you wouldnt approve of.
Wake Up Man. Think about it
May 4th, 2006 at 5:34 pmWere they holding his arms and pulling him out when Ray McGovern said, “This is America!”? We’re already involved in hostile actions in Iran. Will we stop Rummy in time?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:35 pmThe questioner was that nutcase, Ray McGovern. You know, the guy who says the next terror attack on America would be done by Bush and the US government.
Comment by Red and Karly Pyoub
Maybe he helped develop Operation Northwoods when he was at CIA.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:35 pm#119 - “Dialogue and education will do more good any day than simply trying to kill them. Why do conservatives want the world to go on killing each other? When will you make it stop? - Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
May 4th, 2006 at 5:37 pm****I don’t disagree with your point. But to have a dialogue takes a minimum of two parties to discuss, compromise, etc. I have not seen the extreme wing of the Islamofascists willing to jump into the arena of “dialogue”. Conservatives do not want the “world to go on killing each other” - “we will make it stop” when Islamofascists understand the rights of other religions to exist - or the right of atheists and agnostics to believe in no Higher Power or Allah, if they so choose.
#141 — I believe you are essentially right. I am not expert enough on the details to say definitively one way or the other. There is no doubt that the Reagan administration was playing Iraq and Iran against eachother in the 1980s in order to avoid either one of them establishing dominance in the region. After learning about the advanced state of Iraq’s nuclear weapons and other WMD programs following the first Gulf War and seeing today Iran’s growing nuclear capability, it seems obvious that Reagan was correct in his policies and that it would have been disastrous to allow either of those unsavory regimes to become the dominat powers in the Gulf region.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:38 pm#143
That’s the best you got, huh?
Sorry, I don’t like my country being suckered into an unnecessary war based on lies. Maybe that makes me whiny in your eyes. In mine it makes me a patriot and you a blind follower. Funny how perspectives can be different, isn’t it?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:39 pm[…] So, Rummy, again: why did you lie about WMDs? […]
May 4th, 2006 at 5:40 pmThe chemical suits didn’t work anyway.
around the end of 2005 or first part of 2003, there was a hearing in some committee, covered by c-span. anyone who watched could come to the conclusion that not only didn’t the suits work, there wasn’t enough of them.
Either bush sent our troops into battle with suits that didn’ts work or he knew there wouldn’t be a need for them
would someone research this please
May 4th, 2006 at 5:42 pmMighty Aphro, to continue with your counterproductive line of reason: like idolizing the first lady who ran over her teenage boyfriend or a drunk VP who shot an old man? Accusations go round and round and there are soooo many “guilty” parties, but the bottom line HERE is that McGovern put Rumsfeld on the hot seat and Rummy was stunningly transparent in perpetuating the dishonesty this administration will go down in history for. How could you not see that?
Sadly, you and your friend Exley just don’t seem to see reason or the truth because of your blind loyalty. Sad. Who’s calling who a “nutcase”?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:42 pmWhat a crock. The troops wore chemical protective gear cause THEY WERE ORDERED TOO!
May 4th, 2006 at 5:42 pmI’m sure all of them would have loved to take it off. March was chosen for the attack so the troops all wouldn’t die of heat exhaustion in the suits. If they’d truly thought Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction…believe me they wouldn’t have prepared with that paltry no. of troops. They’d have to be prepared to lose a 1/3 in a massive chemical attack. Where were the replacements. Fire the Liars. …and all of you kool-aid drinkers need to start putting 2+2 together and come up with some of your own ideas.
Yet another case of a liberal loon crying about past history and semantics to try and defeat the United States during war time.
Shame on you all. You cry about dying soldiers yet help kill them by undermining them at any chance.
You nutroots would have us leave Iraq like we left Vietnam so that a civil war and genocide can break out, lcreating a repeat of the millions who died in Cambodia and Southeast Asia because of you anti-American traitors.
Thanks God we have Rumsfeld, Bush and Condi running things, telling the CIA and the State Department to reform or die.
Get over it..Bush is President for years yet and you control nothing. You are like a bunch of little dog yapping at the feet of MEN. Time to kick you out of the way.
Cepan
May 4th, 2006 at 5:44 pm#144 - Left Wing fox - Who said - “If you don’t remember history - you’re doomed to repeat it.” Of course you can’t stand to have totalitarians brought to the table as an example of the extreme left-wing - with the exception of ONE tyrant mentioned, ALL were supported by the extremes of the American Left.
#146 - Mark - I have disagreed with this President on his failure to rein in domestic spending, the approval of too many pork-laden bills and his failure to secure the borders. Hand the bong back to hippie.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:44 pm#150 - So, you like kool-aid. What flavor?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:45 pm#149 Does that mean you’re willing to stop executing criminals in this country, too? I’m talking about living human beings who have already been born, so don’t sidetrack the issue. WIll you stop capital punishment? Or do you still believe that some people deserve to die?
And when have we even tried talking to them?
May 4th, 2006 at 5:46 pmRay McGovern — a true American hero.
Rummy — a delusional, psychopathic congenital liar.
It’s about time.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:47 pm#150
Perhaps allowing one to get to powerful would have been a mistake, however the pre-emptive war on Iraq has accelerated Iran’s nuclear amibition, and removed the check on Iran. Frankly the US military is overextended, and Iran knows this. Short of nuclear strikes on hard targets, or boots on the ground, we cannot gaurantee cooperation from the Iranian government. Nor do the Iranians have any reason to be cooperative. The other side of that coin, is a there is a decent chance that newly established Iraq democracy maybe very friendly to Iran. Potentiallly we could have created a very large and aggressive block in the middle east.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:48 pm#155 read Generation Kill. They were glad to take those suits off, and were surprisingly nan-chalant about them.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:48 pm[…] (via Think Progress). […]
May 4th, 2006 at 5:49 pmJolly good Colberting that was. Yep, Colbert is now a verb. Rummy may have toresign because he was so thoroughly Colberted.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:49 pmAH, #135 —Or should I call you “The Dude?” I am glad you admitted that your knowledge in this area is limited to a “Google” search that lasted two minutes. It is clear that you have not read the stories to which you linked. If you had read beyond the headlines, you would have learned that in the 1980s Iraq was sold dual-purpose materials, meaning they could be put to civilian or military use. They were not pure weapons. Given the fact that the West was not fully aware of the extent of Iraq’s WMD prgrams until after the 1991 Gulf War, it is understandable that the U.S. believed that these dual use materials would be used for civilian economic purposes. You know who agreed with that policy at the time? Your hero Joe Wilson, who is quuted in the 2002 Post article you sent; “”Everybody was wrong in their assessment of Saddam,” said Joe Wilson, Glaspie’s former deputy at the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, and the last U.S. official to meet with Hussein. “Everybody in the Arab world told us that the best way to deal with Saddam was to develop a set of economic and commercial relationships that would have the effect of moderating his behavior. History will demonstrate that this was a miscalculation.”
Maybe, “Dude” you should have read the articles before you sent them out. They undermine your argument.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:51 pmHe is also lying when he says ‘I’m not in the intelligence business.’ The bulk of the intelligence budget for the US goes to the Pentagon–and this was why Rumdsfeld was opposed to the creation of a National Intelligence Director that would take away some of his authority and budget.
Plus, the Office of Special Plans was a (pseudo) intelligence agency being run out of the basement of the Pentagon by Douglas Feight, Wolfowitz and Company, and provided much of the intelligence used by the Def Sec and the Whitehouse to justify going to war.
These guys are lying despots, pure and simple. For a rock-and-roll public service announcement on just this theme, please visit:
http://www.unclassifiedmedia.blogspot.com
May 4th, 2006 at 5:51 pm#150 Reagan was clearly not correct. You give him too much credit, making it sound like he predicted the future. At the time, Reagan called the mujihaden the moral equivalent of our founding fathers, despite the fact they were clearly committing evil acts. Reagan defended many evil tyrants under the philosophy MA cites. That we were eventually able to undo the damage does not absolve him of guilt.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:53 pmHilarious - Borrowing a tired line from an old “friend” here, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall Laura Welch leaving the scene of the crime and NOT reporting the traffic accident to the authorities….But watching the “Morons of Massachusetts” return the fat, old, drunken lecher to the Senate is the gift that keeps on giving. Anytime that filth tries to pontificate on morality, up pops a dead blonde….When Ted the Swimmer is no longer creating a stench in the halls of the Senate, Mary Jo Kopechne will be able to RIP.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:53 pmExley & MA,
I sure hope you guys are getting paid for your time trolling here. You can’t possibly believe the dumb crap you’re saying. Can you? I mean, if you guys were true believers, forced to watch your heroes crumble in front of you, having to endure the embarassment of seeing their weak, pathetic lies exposed, it’s got to be painful. And, to watch the number of people dumb enough to still believe Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld dwindling now into the low 30s and still dropping. How long can you hang on before you start to get physically sick from it?
Just wonderin’.
May 4th, 2006 at 5:53 pmI first discovered Mr. McGovern when he helped to shed light on the run-up to the war in Iraq in the must-see documentary “Hijacking Catastrophe.” More on that here:
http://www.hijackingcatastrophe.org/
For those who may not be familiar with h