Bush Claims Program That Monitors Tens of Millions of Americans ‘Strictly Targets Al Qaeda’
Bush Claims Program That Monitors Tens of Millions of Americans ‘Strictly Targets Al Qaeda’
President Bush spoke moments ago about a USA Today report on a massive NSA database that collects information about all phone calls made within the United States. Bush did not deny any of the contents of the article, but he did say:
First, our intelligence activities strictly target Al Qaeda and their known affiliates. Al Qaeda is our enemy, and we want to know their plans.
USA Today, 5/11/06:
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.
The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren’t suspected of any crime.
Collecting information on “tens of millions of Americans” doesn’t seem very targeted.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
Great I have Verizon and AT&T. I am feeling violated..
May 11th, 2006 at 12:30 pmThere’s a very simple explanation for all this: The president lied.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:31 pmTargeted? Half this administration couldn’t aim their wizz into the toilet.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:32 pmBut hey, as long as we are fighting “turrists” it doesn’t matter that rights are being raped. When will America get a clue on this issue?
I blame the phone companies too. Why did they let the government do this?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmYikes! So there are ten million al Qaeda terrists in ‘murka?
Glad we’ve been spending those trillions on “defense” all these years.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pmPay to play Linda. I wonder what sort of legislation would have come down the pipe if they had refused.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pmThis is an outrage. The NSA is by law excluded from monitoring domestic communications of Americans. So tell me Mr. President, why is the NSA monitoring my DOMESTIC records and the records of millions of Americans?
This is illegal in every respect and I hope the lapdog press gets the facts straight on this for once and not confuse the issue.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pmIt’s the criminal’s dream — to have authority over whether or not your crimes are investigated.
Do you think Arlen Specter will actually get anything done on this front? Doubtful. He’s just a Rove spook. My guess is that Mr. Specter gets the “information†(wink wink) he is looking for behind closed door and is all of a sudden “satisfied with the explanation†without any public disclosure.
It’s easier to convince NASCAR Americans of something if they see that someone is against something (Specter) and then, suddenly, they say that they’ve had it “explained†to them and now they think it’s OK. hook… line… sinker… …like a giant perch.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:35 pmI have Verizon and AT&T, too. Now I have to write letters to both companies letting them know how disguted I am that they are sharing personal information. What ever happened to warrants and due process? I’m sick and tired of the imperial presidency.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmYikes, I guess this means that America has about 200 million people affiliated with al-Qaeda. So that means that strategery of fighting them over there so we don’t fight them over here didn’t work out too well.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmThis is a bombshell and the end of Bush’s Presidency
The outrage about it will come from all Americans left and right of the political spectrum
This cannot stand.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:37 pmThe Bush-Republican version of America does not give me the chills that our National Anthem does.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:38 pmI blame the phone companies too. Why did they let the government do this?
Comment by Linda — May 11, 2006 @ 12:34 pm
Because they are in bed together.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:40 pmSomeone asked me at a Bush protest why I was protesting because Bush will be out in a few years. My answer to him was: I am not so sure he will leave when his time is up. He just makes up the rules as he goes along.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:41 pm300,000 million people, now how many employees does NSA have to check thoes calls 24/7????????????????…..so that is where all the ‘new jobs’ are coming from (at taxpayer expense).
May 11th, 2006 at 12:41 pm“First, our intelligence activities strictly target Al Qaeda and their known affiliates.”
Excellent, and that’s how it should be. BUT, after “first”, comes second , third and home base. That’s why FISA exists. To make sure that you don’t steal 2nd and the rest. There are rules to this game.
Please also define “known affiliates”. Also, please explain how you determine who is “Al Qaeda”.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:41 pm#11–you’re assuming that Murkans will even pay attention. Isn’t “Survivor” on the teevee tonight? Or is it “American Idol”?
It might enrage three or four citizens but beyond that, most people will simply shrug and go on their merry way.
“I don’t trust the government but I don’t care if it spies on me illegally”.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:42 pmJust because this administration claims something is “legal” certainly doesn’t mean it is. There is no oversight, judicial or congressional, to make that objective decision. I am appalled that more people aren’t outraged over this behavior. In the name of the war on terror this administration with the complicity of the mainstream media has perpetuated such a state of fear in the American public that they are getting away with the erosion of our constitutionally gauranteed freedoms. It is sickening.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:42 pmUnbelievable-you are right Bush=Corporate welfare
May 11th, 2006 at 12:43 pmComforting words from “Mister Credibility.” Impeach this lying bastard now!
May 11th, 2006 at 12:44 pma glimpse into the black cancerous brain of the neoconservative jihadist:
well, tens of millions of americans haven’t said they are NOT with the terrorists, so they must BE with terrorists.
well, the cells in guantanamo seem clean and freshly painted, but, i look awful in orange… does anyone know if the halliburton detention camps will perhaps offer green outfits…and, please, no jumpsuits! i prefer black, really…
and that sound you hear coming from washington is the collective bending over of the democrats as they touch their collective toes and promise to change all the laws so that the ‘program can fit within the law’…
without a spine, the democrats can bend over without much effort these days….
May 11th, 2006 at 12:44 pmWhat’s the problem here? Obviously Al Qaeda has recruited tens of millions of U.S. citizens. We are over-run by terrorists.
Good thing we can lock up these tens of millions of terrorists without trials. We better build some more secret prisons.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:45 pmAt least Qwest did not give up the info too. Good company!
May 11th, 2006 at 12:46 pmI just checked AT&T’s privacy policy and it seems as though they may actually be breaking their own rules (see below):
“We must disclose information, when requested, to comply with court orders or subpoenas. We will also share information when necessary to prevent unlawful use of communications services, when necessary to repair network outages, and when a customer dials 911 and information regarding their location is transmitted to a public safety agency. “
May 11th, 2006 at 12:46 pmAl Qaeda is ALL OF US!! Oh NO!!
May 11th, 2006 at 12:46 pmI look terrible in orange.
JR-We need more Boxers and Feingolds, less Feinsteins and Liebermans. Can I trade my Feinstein for a Feingold?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:47 pmBefore we jump the gun the article says, that they don’t listen in on the phone calls, they instead have a record of who you called and for how long. I imagine this would be similar to your billing statements you receive each month. This may not be illegal. the police often look at phone records when. It is a little strange however. I don’t know if there is any value to phone calling patterns.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:47 pmKrazny-The police need a warrant don’t they? I still feel violated.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#9 I am glad I have niether. I especially don’t have a home phone any longer. I hear Qwest is the only one not giving up their records because they can’t see the legality. Qwest says that they would gladly offer them if there is a warrant.
I really think this has sealed the fate of the corrupt admin. You just can’t spy on Americans for no good reason - warrantless. I am finding it difficult to even speak to republicans anymore. The shame they have brought on our good nation is utterly horrendous. Anyone who is still happy they voted for this monkey I have nothing to do with. It’s like they themselves have tapped my phone. It has gotten that bad.
Here in TN, that’s where the 31% who favor him live. All they want is their dang guns. So, skim off about 20% who live in trailer parks, have diseased dogs chained up, call all their girl children Sissy and their grandmothers Mamaw, drink homemade liquor, smoke corn husks and have a ‘backhouse’ which holds all their weaponry, and then you have the last 11% who appear here daily.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:50 pmIs the Chimperor saying that those of us who think he’s full of shit are actually Al-Queda? Wow, he must really be the most stupidest man in the entire universe.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:50 pmThe problem, Krazny, is they repeatedly lie.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:51 pmP & P- Come to the Bay Area we sneer at the few who still have Bush/Cheney Stickers on their car.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:52 pmI don’t know Linda, I would think so. However I wanted to point out that according to the article they do not listen in on the conversations, they have a large database of all of our call records though. I have heard rumours of course of the predator program, which monitors emails and telephone calls, and looks for specific words or phrases. Rumours only. If it exist, that would be much scareier.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:53 pmAll they want is their dang guns.
Comment by progressive and proud — May 11, 2006 @ 12:50 pm
Sorta ironic how a group of liberals set up the Bill of Rights so that hey could have them, huh?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:53 pmI’d like to hear Verizon and AT&T explain themselves. Any attempt at a PR clean up is fading, especially each time they won’t provide a response.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:53 pmThe spying has been a cheap substitute for real security. Shame on them. Why secure the borders or inspect containers when you can simply spy? These Bush Republicans need to be locked up.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:53 pmThe problem with the program, however, is that it is highly subject to abuse. Given this administration’s track record of going to lengths to discredit those who it perceives as a threat to its agenda, it is not hard to imagine that those in power can decide that Citizen A is a threat, dummy-up records from this database, and then have that person arrested and prosecuted as a terrorist, or, worse, held indefinitely as an enemy combatant.
Considering the related story that the Justice Department is dropping its investigation into the warrantless-wiretap program because the NSA refused to grant clearance to the investigating attorneys. I could foresee a scenario just like I described and the accused’s having no way to show otherwise because the NSA would refuse to let anyone see the records.
It’s a frightening, frightening situation that anyone, liberal, conservative, moderate, or what-have-you, ought to be concerned about.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:53 pmI agree with other comments who’ve said the president simply lied. A total bald-faced lie. It will be interesting to see what the talking heads on TV do with this–it’s a hard one to ignore.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:54 pmThe CNN.com poll- Does this make you feel creepy or more secure. 24% said more secure! Are you kidding me?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:55 pm#27 Actually this is illegal. Whether you eavesdrop or merely take the records, you need a court order. Well, you USED to. I’m sure this dickhead has changed that as well in some signing order.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:56 pmDoes anyone know it Civil action can be taken against these telcommunication giants by the public? I know the story of why Qwest didn’t give up information sheds light on the non-legal nature of this program. Qwest requested a letter of approval from the attorney general and a FISA warrant. The administration couldn’t get the warrant, so that is why Qwest didn’t give in. We must take action against the other companies for giving in to the admnistration’s illegal request.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:56 pm“Would you buy a used car from this man?”
May 11th, 2006 at 12:57 pmSprint is in on it, too. I have home and cell service through them. I wrote a note to their customer service asking if they shared their customer info and then later found a post on dailykos.com indicating that they did. Will await Sprint’s response, and then follow up and ask what law requires them to cooperate.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:58 pmWell I sure feel better now that Bush explained the wiretapping of U.S. citizens. What a f*cking liar!!! “It’s legal, trust me” NO thanks. The doublespeak and contradictions in his explaination are astounding. What good are numbers if they don’t listen to the calls? How many times did he say al queda, aren’t there any other terrorists in the world. Al Queda. al queda al queda terror terror terror, afraid yet? F*CK NO!!!!! Quit wiping your ass with the constitution, bush. STep down before your ass is impeached.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:58 pm#33 True, but whenever I make a call to a company to ask a question or make a complaint, the automative voice usually says that “this conversation may be recorded in order to provide better service.” While I think it’s a good way to teach proper customer service to employees, on the other hand it’s a going to be a nightmare if the intelligence community is listening in.
So, I just feel that I’m being violated by a company that won’t stand up for its’ customers.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:58 pmMy understanding of the law (or what’s left of it after 6 years of this b.s.) is that the companies probably would have qualified immunity from suit if they were acting pursuant to the directives of the government. Wicked unfair, but probably correct.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:59 pmquery: does al qaeda offer dental?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:59 pmpolice often look at phone records when.
From my regular watching of Law & Order, there is usually a statement to the effect of going to a Judge before the eventually “looking at the LODs” part of the dialog. But that is just TV, so what do I know?
Legality aside, policy-wise, I don’t think many are going to be happy about this. For all us Terry Gilliam fans, I am just imagining a fly in a teletype room somewhere. “Buttle” instead of “Tuttle”…
Anyway, wasn’t just yesterday we learned about Pres travel details being found on the curbside? It is not like these folks are at least competent when it comes to issues of security. Are we expected to trust them with such a large database? Moreover, what other databases are they constructing based on our communications?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:00 pmCheck with Cingular. I just hope they are not part of this too.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:00 pm“First, our intelligence activities strictly target Al Qaeda and their known affiliates.â€
Maybe Cheney hasn’t fully explained the program to him yet?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:02 pm#46,
What if the government didn’t take it’s due process in obtaining the information? Couldn’t the tele-com companies be just as guilty, and seen as an accomplice or enabler of the crimes?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:03 pmEvery single thing this worthless halfwit cowardly POS says is a f**king lie!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:04 pmGET IT? There’s no suprise, no mystery.
Realize it, then don’t forget it.
They are LYING, STEALING, MURDERING BASTARDS that should be treated accordingly.
That’s one big sleeper cell…
May 11th, 2006 at 1:08 pm[…] Bush Claims Program That Monitors Tens of Millions of Americans ‘Strictly Targets Al Qaeda’ via Think Progress […]
May 11th, 2006 at 1:09 pmdoes this airhead really think we are that stupid?
you in the secret service, arrest him for the crimes you know he has committed, do the right thing
May 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmBy logical conclusion there are 10 millions al quaida sympatisers in the good ol’ USA . We must bring back the troops from Irak to look them up , guard our borders and protect the white house , not congress they do not count.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmI am willing to bet there is a lot more to this story, then what has been told so far. What else have they been logging? I wonder if all those emails sent out every year get logged some where in the same system. I have a background in IT, and have always warned against sending anything truly private out over the internet.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pm#42 - very good and accurate.
Well, well seems dumbya is lying again, I can tell and diagnose just by looking at him (snarky remark belittling Tom “teary eye” Coburn ). When dumbya’s lips move, he is lying.
They are so evil they ache, lying about everything from the important to the unimportant. I guess when you are too old to blow up animals with fireworks you move on to spying and lying.
What idiot buys this latest: we aren’t listening to your conversations? What idiot believes that a “terraist” would not suspect that their conversations are monitored? Dumbya and his handlers are listening so they can go after anyone that points to the illegality and corruption that will bring this so called administration apart faster. They are listening to your calls and if you believe otherwise you are a fool.
I especially enjoyed the line about just monitoring calling patterns. Oh, yes! “Terraist” have different calling patterns than innocent Americans. I knew that, didn’t you? If they had a memo stating that the WTC was a target and couldn’t stop that, what in hell do you think they are going to do with calling patterns?
I really love the cover story: we won’t listen in on any conversations without a warrant….yep, right dearie. This is the same criminal that said that before he ignored getting warrants to spy earlier. Remember?
His sagging poll numbers and impending prison sentence lead me to believe that he is now adopting a scorched earth policy (I just got my unintended pun). There is NOTING he and his handlers are not above doing, including Nuking Iran to salvage the mid-terms.
Grab a bottle, hunker down and pray for daylight. - Karen Walker
This little fool has really got me hopping mad today, much the same as every other day since he invaded the WH.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again, get ready to hear the phrase “are your papers in order?” (heavy Nazi accent)
Dumya may have gone too far again, and again, and again, and again. 750 (at least) laws that he chooses not to follow, illegal war, illegal spying, illegal detention, torture, human rights violations, war crimes, election fraud, phone jamming, cronisym, corruption, kickbacks, ignoring the FISA guidelines……and treason. Did I mention whores?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:12 pmPlease check this picture and you will feel my outrage
http://f3.yahoofs.com/ blog/ 433d24dbz187ae184/ 94/ __sr_/ 750c.jpg?mg433YEB28MoMpe5
May 11th, 2006 at 1:13 pmIt is important to remember that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda no longer use cell phones to communicate. They are doing it the old fashion way. So, this “targeted” line is complete bullshit.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:13 pmPresident George W. Bush is a liar.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:15 pmKranzy,
That system is called Carnivor. Yes, your e-mails are being read and logged.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pm#51-I think qualified immunity would still apply, but the companies would have to show that they reasonably believed they were obligated to do so at the direction of a government official or agency. If the government lacked probable cause, that would be a different type of case, probably a Bivens action alleging a violation of the Fourth Amendment.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pmEvery dictatorial regime has to spy on it’s citizens. Study history and you will find this is nothing new. People who are lied to, cheated, and oppressed begin to get angry. Eventually they begin to organize for change.
The fact is, Bush/Cheney HAVE to spy on “tens of millions” of us out of fear that they will be toppled.
http://www.impeachbush.org
May 11th, 2006 at 1:16 pmThanks spudge, for some reason I had it in my head it was predator.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:17 pmGreat! Now that the liberal media has compromised our national security once again - all of the terrorists are gonna sign up for phone service with Qwest… when will we just become scared enough to voluntarily give up all our freedoms and liberties… freedom demeans our troops… liberties are bad for America… USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:18 pmDumya makes Nixon look like a novice at this spy stuff.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:19 pmWow. Its only 10millioin. I thought there were many more millions AlQaeda sympathizers. Anyone who does not watch FOX is AlQaeda by definition and therefore must be under heavy scrutiny.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:21 pmthis is great. Bush basically says, “Don’t worry. We’re not actually doing what the USAToday article described. And furthermore, it’s really bad that our enemies now know that we’re doing this.”
can anybody find the contradiction there?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:22 pmVERIZON PRIVACY POLICY
We enable you to control how and if we disclose your personally identifiable information to other persons or entities, except as required by law or to protect the safety of customers, employees or property or except when we share such information with agents, affiliates, suppliers, vendors, consultants and contractors who use it to provide or support our products and services
Can the government require information without getting a warrant or subpoena?
Can this be considered “protection” even without a legal opinion? (alberto’s doesn’t count)
If they are both answered “no”, I feel that Verizon has violated it’s contractual obligation to me, their customer.
P.S. Everyone should write their phone provider and ask for answers.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:23 pmBush said that “Americans rights are fiercely protected and it’s legal” I feel sooo much better about it.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:25 pmWTF man! If there are KNOWN Al-Quaeda operatives in our coutnry, and we KNOW their affiliates, WHY AREN”T THEY IN JAIL?!?!? This is simply an insult to anyone with an iota of common sense. This feeble minded simpleton can’t even lie with logic. He’s gotta go. When shall we storm the Bastille?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:25 pmI am DELIGHTED TP and it band of loyal progs want to make it easier for terrorists to enjoy the full fruits of liberty with the dignity of privacy. Since I don’t make phone calls to terrorists and terror sympathizers, progressive paranoia has not infected my brain or beliefs. The really good news for those who find the USAs’ defense against terrorism intolerable you can STILL get out while the getting is good. This option is still available - I know this is surprising given your perception of contemporary US policy!! Bon voyage!!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#71, pass me the kool-aid, i have the vapors…. glug glug, I feel much better now too.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:27 pmI am outraged, this lying little cracka Bush has finally gone too far! He will be impeached and I will rejoice in my panties.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:29 pmOnce again a serious threat to the freedom of the United States. The police do not just go into the phone company to look up phone numbers. Some states require a warrant. At the very least there is a record of who requested the numbers and why.
Should we be worried? Yes. The government has never defined what an “affiliate” of AQ is. We have seen that vegans, Quakers and other such innocent groups can be suspect. What happens with this information? Obviously the government looks for a suspect number. They would next look at those who either called or were called by that number. The next step would be to then start checking out the next set of numbers. By the way, better start checking tax records and anything else that you can on those who contancted the number.
We will next learn that the government does actually start listening to the domestic calls of those identified through the data mining and trolling. Don’t buy Bush saying that it is not being mined. The data would be worthless unless so reviewed.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pmOnce again a serious threat to the freedom of the United States. The police do not just go into the phone company to look up phone numbers. Some states require a warrant. At the very least there is a record of who requested the numbers and why.
Should we be worried? Yes. The government has never defined what an “affiliate” of AQ is. We have seen that vegans, Quakers and other such innocent groups can be suspect. What happens with this information? Obviously the government looks for a suspect number. They would next look at those who either called or were called by that number. The next step would be to then start checking out the next set of numbers. By the way, better start checking tax records and anything else that you can on those who contancted the number.
We will next learn that the government does actually start listening to the domestic calls of those identified through the data mining and trolling. Don’t buy Bush saying that it is not being mined. The data would be worthless unless so reviewed.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pmAfrodykie, you can always go back to your roots too u know
May 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pmMy mom said to me that there are perverts connecting with children via the internet (yes, the war on the internet has MSM spouting the propaganda).
I told her it was just the Government trying to scare us into giving up more of our rights. She objected, saying that perverts are getting through.
So, I said “Mom, why aren’t these chidlren’s parents monitoring their behavior? Why should Ibe subjected to a violation of my Consitutional Rights just because a lazy group of aprents in this country don’t pay attention to what their children are doing.”
This amazes me coming from a woman who was an excellent parent because she gave up nice things to stay at home and pay attention to what her children were doing.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:32 pmI especially enjoyed the line about just monitoring calling patterns. Oh, yes! “Terraist†have different calling patterns than innocent Americans. I knew that, didn’t you? If they had a memo stating that the WTC was a target and couldn’t stop that, what in hell do you think they are going to do with calling patterns?
I really love the cover story: we won’t listen in on any conversations without a warrant….yep, right dearie. This is the same criminal that said that before he ignored getting warrants to spy earlier. Remember?
His sagging poll numbers and impending prison sentence lead me to believe that he is now adopting a scorched earth policy (I just got my unintended pun). There is NOTING he and his handlers are not above doing, including Nuking Iran to salvage the mid-terms.
HOW TRUE!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pmIt’s alrealy been proven that they ‘didn’t have time’ to get thoes court orders while spying on us. Another bush LIE.
mighty stupid:…you said ‘your brain’….does it trust this WH?…if so…you have BRAIN DAMAGE.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pmYou know, Bush is probably technically correct. I think there are tens of millions of Americans who want to destroy the constituion, take down our freedoms and generally trash out our contry to create their own Version of the American Taliban. Lets see, take 280,000,000 people times 30% and that comes out to 84 million people and if half of them are registered voters, that would be 42 million people who are in favor of detroying traditional America freedoms. Isn’t that what the president said Al Queda wants to do? So if he is monitoring that 30% as being anti-american and working towards a common goal with Al Queda,m then he is techinically correct. Bravo for him. Now I wonder how the republican party feels about their base being monitored illegally?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pmPogo was right. We have seen the enemy and it is us.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pmQWEST refused to comply because their lawyers think that this is illegal, oh yeah and so do most legal scholars. I wonder how long it will take Fox News to demand that the reporter from USA Today be brought up on sedition charges?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:34 pmSen. Leahy:
Yes, you should. And the American people should be livid that it’s own government won’t answer questions. We already know that data mining on international calls generates about a 1% return — creating leads already known through other channels — and sends invesitgators on wild goose chases. And, as many have noted, no respectable terrorist is going to use a personal phone to plot attacks. Nevertheless, Bushco has been hiding its activity.
What are you really doing with this information, Mr. President?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:36 pmYeah Right!
Do I believe Bush and his handlers are sinister - You Betcha!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:37 pmI am shocked - shocked that USA Today would print a piece of decent investigative reporting on the criminal hijinks of the Bush administration. Has the media grown a backbone recently? Maybe the editors and reporters are rebelling against corporate rule.. or maybe corporate rule is rebelling against the wacko policies of the Bush-Cheney junta. This administration generates enough muck for a whole army of muckrakers (and comedians) - are we really going to see more and more expose? Or am I just dreaming?
How can anyone think Bush isn’t using the NSA program to spy on his political opponents, reporters, anti-war groups, etc? What are the rules for accessing this database? Russ Tice, the NSA whistleblower, says he’s happy to testify before Congress. I get the feeling that even Michael Hayden is disgusted with the program, which had to be reauthorized regularly by Bush - was Hayden covering himself with this approach? That also created a record that tied the program to Bush. Byzantine as ever.
Personally, I’d like to know exactly what those slimeballs Donald Rumsfeld and Stephen Cambone have been up to with their military intelligence ’special access programs’ - is it true that they have undercover teams operating within the US as well as in foriegn countries?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:39 pmRemember back when calling someone a “communist” meant you were an enemy of America. The Bush administration is trying to make “terrorist” the same thing. We’ll be at a point soon where just labelling someone will make them an outcast of society. Do we want a repeat of Red Scare trials and witch hunts? Do the American people learn anything from history?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:41 pmPeople… I said it many times… starting in late 2001… right after the USA Patriot Act was drafted… and it is still true today:
Is this America in the early 2000’s or is this Nazi Germany circa 1936?
Sadly, the answer to this question is now painfully obvious.
And to think… Rep. Reichert STILL doesn’t think Bush should be impeached!!!!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:42 pmFear is a good motivator to convince a society to stick together. The republicans have a history of using fear for political gain. The red scare, the cold war, the terrorists. I remember before the 04 election how many terror alerts we had, and how much time was spent discussing the terror levels etc. after the election you hardly heard anything about it.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:44 pmI just surfed about 5 of the conservative sites. Predictably, redstain, instapundit haven’t even mentioned this one. LGF, Michelle Malkin & Powerline are saying this is another “leak” of National Security intel and that the traitors should be jailed and charged with treason. The minions are singing in the chior and trying to up the ante.
So, beware folks. There are those that are trying to get others to start jailing and hurting their political opponents. God knows when it’s gonna stop…
Civil War deaux?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:45 pmMay 11th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
And the Right in their Naive ways, thought the Left was just being overly paranoid, and the good folks at the Bush admin. are only spying on suspected terrorists. What does the Right have to say now?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:49 pm#89
post #92 and this one are just for you…
May 11th, 2006 at 1:50 pm#32 If you mean the SF Bay, I am with you! I go often, just not often enough. I love San Francisco. And, just to tickle your fancy, the W stickers here are disappearing from bumpers. My neighbor just took his off. He’s a real “git er dun” kind of guy so I didn’t want to say told you so. Although, I did offer a smile and he, in turn, a sneer. Oh well, at least he is waking up.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:51 pm[…] Now they are collecting our phone records, creating “the largest database ever assembled in the world,” a “database of every call ever made”. Bush claims that this program “Strictly targets Al Qaeda”, but I would submit to the court that my phone records have NOTHING TO DO WITH TERRORISM. […]
May 11th, 2006 at 1:53 pmAnd this from the guy Karl Rove made. This from the guy that changes his story faster than a speeding bullet. This from the guy who is grabbing power, silencing debate, took us to war on lies. This from the guy who politicizes everything. The one thing we know for sure is, we can not trust Bush.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:53 pmI wonder if we took a poll tomorrow, what bush’s approval rating would be? I have a feeling from some of the regular wingnuts here, who are upset about this, that he just slipped a few more points.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pmI saw a sticker recently that said Why? Even here in Red State HQ.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pmHow does the Right feel about our government conducting illegal survaillence of American citizens (The Minutemen), and then giving the intelligence (location of Minutemen) to a foreign government (Mexico)? The really far right radicals are just as upset.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pm#89
sorry, the bold sections didn’t show up…
the essential paragraph in the second post is bush’s, no, i mean goering’s comment below:
I said that they would have to be obedient and have confidence in the leadership, and leave what was to be done to the leadership — that that was proper, and a basic attitude — every SA man knew that from our speeches and from the Party program. Among all the people the wish was — of every decent German, I hope — to be rid of Versailles.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pmI’ll take care of you mighty aphrodite. In the meantime, get back in yer box. Make me a sandwich while yer at it.
(Do you have a job, mighty?)
May 11th, 2006 at 1:54 pmBush does no t trust the American people. He is trolling for internal enemies, and as his poll numbers drop, there are more and more enemies all around. He is surrounded by enemies.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:55 pmIt’s vital to keep in mind who the enemy is if they’re to keep absolute control.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:55 pmYou guys are the biggest dumbasses ever. Again Judd is doing his usual dishonest crap again. As if the US governement has the resources to look at tens of millions of phone records. The government is searching databases with a criteria. That’s the “targeting” stupids. I’m glad they’re doing it. That would be an intelligent way for our government to identify potential threats. Listen to yourselves. Dishonest and stupid, what a combination.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:55 pmSo if I follow the logic…gee, we aren’t doing anything illegal even though we aren’t using the FISA system…and gee, we are talking to “some” members of congress…but they can’t tell you anything because the information is limited and totally classified….and gee, we are ok with some investigative oversight…but unfortunately we can’t grant security clearance to the investigators.
Gee…it looks to me like we have a dictator in charge. He breaks the rules, he rewrites the rules, he changes the rules, and he answers to no one.
I only hope we can soon finish the job of exporting our “democracy” to Iraq and the rest of the oppressed world so they can have the same rights that we do.
more observations here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
May 11th, 2006 at 1:56 pmAnything endorsed by that intellectual powerhouse Jeff Sessions from Alabama simply cannot have your best interests at heart…
May 11th, 2006 at 1:57 pmprogressive and proud
In the town I live in, on a fairly well traveled street, one person has had an IMPEACH BUSH sign in his/her front yard for nearly as long as bush has been in office!
May 11th, 2006 at 1:58 pmWell Mr K, since the trolls here think that Joseph McCarthy did the right thing, you are coorect. We are just dealing with a different “ist” in this situation. Substitute communist with terrorist and you have the latest scare, only this time it will be the Blue Scare, because now the republicans are the reds.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:59 pmYou know, I really doubt that there is any terrorist who hasn’t heard about the phone taps by now. Does anybody believe terrorists have a phone tree?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:59 pmNo, this program of domestic spying isn’t really targeted at terrorists, unless they want to trap really STUPID terrorists. Big waste of money for that purpose.
But maybe it’s not the real purpose?
Ben,
May 11th, 2006 at 1:59 pmDon’t you have a teenage girl to tend to on Myspace?
How is he being dishonest Ben? J
udd reported, according to a US Today story, that has since been confirmed by the white house, that millions of phone records have been obtained by the NSA and placed into a database. This action without warrants or probable cause is illegal. Whether they can effectively search the database is of no consequence.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:00 pm#107 Daniel DiRito - Maybe after we export our “democracy†to Iraq we can all move there because ours will be gone by then.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:00 pmWasent it Hitler that was so paranoid also… Let’s see, set up internment camps, hold thousands of people all over the world with no contact or representation, dismantel the constitution, take from the poor and give to the rich, create wars to drain all money from the econemy, ignore disasters, appoint cronies to offices they are not qualified to do, ignore polls and the people. Ah yes, now I get it, the real deal, listen in on every one to be sure there is no revolt in the works, the moment it appears there is trouble, preemptive strike here at home. Hi Ho, Hi Ho it’s off to the camps we go…….We need to get this lieing scum bag out before any more die in Iraq ar any where else…..Blessings
May 11th, 2006 at 2:01 pmI like how this fool says “We still haven’t been attacked yet”., meaning this is the reason why and that he should get credit for it. The previous attack was planned for almost a decade, not as though it is supposed to happen every year…..though knowing Bush, he would love it for America to be attacked every year so his numbers would skyrocket again and he can chant “I’m the War Presnit, I’m the War Presnit!”.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:01 pmBon voyage!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 11, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
Please tell us that it is YOU going somewhere…
May 11th, 2006 at 2:02 pmI’m sure most here are aware of these facts… but jsut in case…
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:04 pm2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous†acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.†Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,†and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.†A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not†citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal†and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors†was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.
Peace is War, War is Peace Big Brother is really Watching. 20 years from now people who question or oppose the state and a willing coalition of business interests will lose their jobs and the effective
May 11th, 2006 at 2:04 pmability to publically dissent. This is the possible future we face. slowly the safeguards of free speech are being restructed by Ideology Ridicule and Disinformation. Ray Mcgovern dared to stand up and speak the truth. He was jeered and booed in front of millions of people. The weekly standard cherry picked his background to discredit the messenger. They did not critique the message. I sent them an Email and a challenge to address the message. Of course they did not respond. This is a very clear paradigm of disinformation and the slow march to a police state. It is my belief that the president has violated our trust and cannot be trusted when he says that there is no trolling or fishing in the compilation of the database. This precise action occured in the selective use and misuse of intelligence regarding WMD. It is said that a house built on lies cannot stand. For any of you who might question my patriotism my brother served in the navy for many years as did my father. I broke with family tradition and served in the army national guard =)
Ben - forgot to take his meds again…
he seems to suffer from severe mental disorders…as in
alexia Loss of a previously intact ability to grasp the meaning of written or printed words and sentences.
alogia An impoverishment in thinking that is inferred from observing speech and language behavior. There may be brief and concrete replies to questions and restriction in the amount of spontaneous speech (poverty of speech). Sometimes the speech is adequate in amount but conveys little information because it is overconcrete, overabstract, repetitive, or stereotyped (poverty of content).
amentia Subnormal development of the mind, with particular reference to intellectual capacities; a type of severe mental retardation.
anosognosia The apparent unawareness of or failure to recognize one’s own functional defect
apathy Lack of feeling, emotion, interest, or concern.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:05 pmBen - How about lazy, uninformed, and just plain dumb as dirt? You: As if the US governement has the resources to look at tens of millions of phone records”
People like Ben are the reason our Democracy is in serious trouble. They would rather trust than think……they are lazy, full of themselves ( God knows why) and easily manipulated. Once they hook their star to their “team” it’s their team right or wrong. It’s never about facts or the truth,…..it’s about the “fun” of raw bullying and strutting around …….. but most of all it’s about really really really DUMB.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:05 pmBen - How about lazy, uninformed, and just plain dumb as dirt? You: As if the US governement has the resources to look at tens of millions of phone records”
People like Ben are the reason our Democracy is in serious trouble. They would rather trust than think……they are lazy, full of themselves ( God knows why) and easily manipulated. Once they hook their star to their “team” it’s their team right or wrong. It’s never about facts or the truth,…..it’s about the “fun” of raw bullying and strutting around …….. but most of all it’s about really really really DUMB.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:05 pmBon voyage!!
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 11, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
I hear Iraq is a flower in the middle east. Full of democracy, and safety. Perhaps you and your family could go over for a few weeks mighty, then you can come back and tell all of us “progs” of the wonderful paradise of Bahgdad.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:05 pmThe company I work for makes a 6 Terabyte iSCSI SAN device that can hold a huge quantity of information. Our iSCSI SAN device is NOT on the high end of storage capacity. WHo’s the biggest dumbass now?
May 11th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#95 Yes The SF Bay Area.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:07 pm#108 madashell, that’s cool. I’m in a redstate and no one here and folks are pretty upset about the spying. Here in TN, we like our privacy. That is one reason many move here from large cities - privacy. Then they hear some of us talk and look perplexed. See, we have utterly stupid trailer park trash and we have ORNL, so we also have extremely intelligent scientists. It is a very odd mix, but always a hoot to secretly make fun of the reblitards (that was for you IRI, I know you love funny names) while ordering fries from them. They can’t even tell.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:08 pmfollow-up question:
May 11th, 2006 at 2:08 pm“and mr 31%, has this tactic worked? does mining data work? do you have new intel on al qaida?”
“uh, no.”
You know, people… I really didn’t think it possible that Bush and Republicans’ poll numbers could go any lower. Bush proved me wrong.
I am happy. Before this, I was seriously questioning whether the Democrats can take over Congress… after all, “Turdblossom” (Bush’s words, not mine) has been given the task of preventing the Dems from taking over… and the architect of the vote flipping in 2000, 2002 and 2004 (and quite possibly the 9/11 terrorist attacks) can do miracles.
But you know what? I think this just might push the task at hand out of even Turdblossom’s reach… especially if this explodes all over the country (and so far it has), eventually causing Bush to reach 15% approval rating.
We’ll see over the next couple of weeks and months. So far, Bush is being 100% counterproductive by attempting to “defend the indefensible.”
May 11th, 2006 at 2:09 pmYou don’t “think” the USATodays’ article on NSA wiretapping had ANYTHING to do with Michael Haydens’ upcoming confirmation hearings, do you???
#60 - “It is important to remember that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda no longer use cell phones to communicate. They are doing it the old fashion way.” - SpongeMAN
***** And you know this….how…..
#78 - “Afrodykie, you can always go back to your roots too u know” - Cyniclone
******Excellent point - but I’m not the one whining about the NSA program, am I? Your misspelling of my name is incorrect - I am neither black or a lesbian - sorry to diappoint….
#102 - Dear Guido - Unlike Dems and progs, I don’t need you to take care of me.
’til later….
May 11th, 2006 at 2:10 pm6 Terabyte iSCSI SAN device
dude I want one. I have no practical use for the device but still…
May 11th, 2006 at 2:10 pm#95 Funny you should mention. The W stickers are gone from the cars here in NC too. I haven’t seen one in months! The Kerry stickers are still on. But here we have a so-called Red State turning purple, if you gather my meaning. I suspect that is true in many erstwhile Red States, and I was disappointed indeed to find that the Dems have written off this state, allowing the Republicans to run unopposed at a national level in so many districts! They could have carried NC! Now, when the NC voter looks around for some way to express his disappointment with the GOP, there is nobody to vote for! I know what they will do, they already did it in the primary… they’re going to stay home. But the GOP will still get the seats! IT’s a shame.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:11 pmDid you know that there are only 3 or 4 states left that has bush at slightly over 50%.
I read that about a month ago….
May 11th, 2006 at 2:13 pmI am neither black or a lesbian - sorry to diappoint….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 11, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
This is true. You’re a white man. Something you never deny.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:13 pmThe Problem is: They can now create a linkage for who calls who.
A -> B -> C -> etc.
It would take very little programing to create a listing of ALL your Contacts based on Your Call linkage. Think of it like “Friendster” Social Network on Steroids.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:13 pmI have a sticker on the back of my Durango… “F” and directly underneath, The President. Have had it on for almost 2 years. It’s been spit on a few times, but not in a while…
May 11th, 2006 at 2:14 pm“You guys are the biggest dumbasses ever.
As if the US governement has the resources to look at tens of millions of phone records.”
What do you think is happening when you search the internet? It’s interesting how easy it is to drill down to a few interesting sites, depending on what you search for, isn’t it? Perhaps they search for “terrorists” or “bombs”, but they could as easily search for your nickname in combination with “dumbass” and drill right in on you!
May 11th, 2006 at 2:15 pmIs Time Warner involved in this?
May 11th, 2006 at 2:15 pmHey don’t worry, this program is only going to continue while there is a terrorist threat to America…..oh wait…..THAT MEANS FOREVER.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:15 pmOh mighty,
May 11th, 2006 at 2:16 pmYou’d run into the comforting arms of Uncle Shrub pantin’ and a cryin’ like the cheap, kept whore you are…
Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and endangering the country. It works the same in every country.
… Herman Goering
May 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pmHitler’s Reichsmarschall
Quoted during Nuremberg trials
United States — Population: 295,734,134
hmmm so 10 million of America is talking to AL-Qaeda?
I know alot of People, does anyone here ever talk to al qaeda?
Hell Whats their Phone number george?
I’d like to call and cuss then out, if thats OKAY with the King.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pmAnd given todays modern technology, why DON’T you just Block Calls to AL QAEDA?
China does it.
#122 - “Perhaps you and your family could go over for a few weeks mighty, then you can come back and tell all of us “progs†of the wonderful paradise of Bahgdad.”
Kranky Krazzzy
******Kranky - As usual, you forget that I AM NOT THE one fearful of my phone call patterns being tracked - AND I love it here! I wanted to reassure paranoid progs they were free to go….who knew????
must run…
May 11th, 2006 at 2:18 pm#91 - I’ll send you some Brillo pads for your eyes, kindness. ;)
May 11th, 2006 at 2:18 pmGuess what George, the people are wisw to your bullshit, you will not pull a ‘Hitler’ again.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:19 pmNumbers and calling patterns don’t mean dick if you don’t know who is making the call. You have to listen to know if it’s a terrorist. It’s not like they use the same number all the time! They are LISTENING to our calls. everything he has said about this program, including this, has been a lie:
1. “when your talking about a wiretap your talking about a court order” LIE
2. “We are only listening to international calls with known Al Queida” LIE
3. “We are just looking at call patterns and numbers of al Quieda” LIE
We need to march on the Capital to protest the usless and complicit congress NOW!
May 11th, 2006 at 2:20 pmmust run…
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 11, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
If only that were true. To not have to read the incoherant rants of a sexually confused troll.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:20 pmmust run…
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 11, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
Still waiting for you to tell me how inspiration sources are relevant to the correlation between too many law enforcment agencies and too many people in prison.
Unlike you, I have a great memory.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:22 pmThe government is searching databases with a criteria.
The current “government” is far too incompetent to search databases and derive any meaningful information.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:22 pmMy favorite car sticker had a bush/cheney logo with Homer Simpson pissing on it….
May 11th, 2006 at 2:22 pm