Fiscal Insanity: Paying for Tax Cuts With More Tax Cuts
Fiscal Insanity: Paying for Tax Cuts With More Tax Cuts
Last year, in a supposed effort to impose some fiscal discipline, Congress limited itself to $70 billion in tax cuts over 10 years in the tax package currently under consideration in Congress. But the bill put together by conservatives includes far more than $70 billion in tax cuts over ten years, mostly for the wealthy, and they figured out an inventive way to get around the limit: more tax cuts.
Here’s how it works. Traditionally, very wealthy people are not eligible for an extremely tax-favorable kind of retirement account called a Roth IRA. As a revenue raising gimmick, Congress decided to remove the income restrictions on Roth IRAs for one year (2010). In the short term, these wealthy people will switch from their current retirement accounts to the Roth IRA, providing a quick influx of $6.9 billion to the treasury during the 10 year window. (The money is taxed when it is transferred.)
But over the long term, this shift will swell the federal debt even more. Once the money is transferred to Roth IRAs, it is never taxed again. Overall, the treasury “would lose $37 billion in revenue from the Roth IRA provision from 2013 to 2049.”
The measure passed the House yesterday and is expected to clear the Senate today. Of course, whatever problems this kind of policy creates in the future, we can always solve them with more tax cuts.
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“Of course, whatever problems this kind of policy creates in the future, we can always solve them with more tax cuts.”
Well you sure can’t solve them with tax increases. You can solve the problem with reduced federal spending, which will require REAL conservatives to be elected to Congress and of course the Presidency.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:00 amI guess that when you believe there’s no tomorrow, only armageddon, that’s a brilliant idea. But when you are a rational and sane person, it’s a really horrible idea.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:00 amDon’t matter none… those of us what lived a good, Christian life will be raptured up into Heaven long before any of these bills come due.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:01 amYou can solve the problem with reduced federal spending,
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 11:00 am
Starting with that astronomical defense budget… $358 billion, not including the $6 billion daily cost of the Iraq Debacle.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:03 am#2 – If they believe there’s no tomorrow, why do they need so much f*cking money? Just run up the credit cards and let god sort it out. I reviewed my entire list, and I can’t even think of a name nasty enough to call them.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:04 amI am trying to decide what to do with my tax cut. Should I buy a quarter of tank of gas or buy that Chateau in the South of France I always wanted?
May 11th, 2006 at 11:04 am#4
As soon as we solve this little international terrorist problem…absolutely.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:09 amTracy- What spending would you cut? Let’s hear it!
May 11th, 2006 at 11:09 amBe specific- don’t just say “entitlements” (right wing talking point…)
And from here on out, if any Democratic Congress or Administration tries to repeal these tax cuts, they will claim that we are in fact raising taxes, that’s what I love most about this whole scheme.
Yeah and the defense budget, you know that our budget is greater than the entire rest of the world combined? Military industrial complex — never heard of it. :(
May 11th, 2006 at 11:10 amZoo,
I think it’s about excess now, while they are here. You know – those real Christian ideals. Commandments about stealing from the poor to you can weigh 250 pounds, starving the hungry so you can be a member at 3 different country clubs, slaving the middle class so you don’t have to move your sorry ass except to get in and out ofthe golf cart, and so on.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:15 amYeah, the trillions we’ve spent so far on “defense” sure went a long way on Sept. 11, 2001. Those stealth bombers and nukes and stuff came in real handy.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:16 amLeave it to Republicans to think ahead and solve the problems of bribing the wealthy in the next midterm elections four years early.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:16 amSeems like Clinton managed to bring the budget under control with a tax increase. But maybe I just hallucinated between 1993 and 2001.
What is it about taxes? you mention taxes and the rr (rabid republicans) go nuts. you can’t even have a discussion about it. They launch into you liberal commies want to take my money etc….
until we can have a discussion without vitriol and hyperbole, were going to find ourselves in the same mess forever.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:16 amA little clue for your side Tracy. The intl. terrorists are not hiding up the butt of a call-boy.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:17 amI think we should rename the department of defense and call it the department of offense. Afterall, we’ve got a department of homeland security, right?
May 11th, 2006 at 11:18 amAs soon as we solve this little international terrorist problem…absolutely.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 11:09 am
You mean the one we created by selling weapons to people like Osama in the first place?
Don’t worry. It’s largely over-hyped. You have a greater risk of harming yourself than you do of being attacked by a terrorist. They tend to be small and discounted extremists. The best defense in that case is to not sell them weaponry or the means to solve problems with weaponry in the first place. And we can achieve that by taking money away from the military (fewer folks to sit around and stragegize).
May 11th, 2006 at 11:20 amTracy – it’s going to take both spending cuts and tax revenue to solve the current budget deficits, which we may point out, have been generated by this administrations abominable budgeting.
Why should someone who is making 10x + more than me pay less than i do as a percentage of the income I pay taxes on? That makes absolutely no sense at all. It isn’t fair, it isn’t democratic, it isn’t American.
Now i won’t go so far as to call your patriotism into question. I will just question your integrity.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:22 amJust a quick economics lesson here: When money is invested in an IRA it isn’t just sitting in the bank doing nothing. The money is INVESTED in businesses, businesses hire people, and people pay MORE taxes. If they had just given the money to the government it would not generate a single dime. If they money just sits stagnant the bank (or investment company) can’t very well pay interest on the account.
FYI OTF, if you “repeal” a tax “cut” you are most definately RAISING taxes. But those that feel these tax cuts are shameful, they can just pony up the difference when they pay taxes. Imagine how “clean” you will feel after paying the full tax burden. Heck why not go back to the tax tables of the 1970s? I salute your integerty in not supporting these neocon policies!
May 11th, 2006 at 11:25 amYou are more likely to be the victim of a lightning strike than you would be a victim of a terrorist attack.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:25 amThe Islamist radicals hate us because of our policies in the Mideast; supporting dictators, and having a one-sided policy in regard to the Palestinian – Israeli conflict.
#18 Is Tracy one of our weaker trolls or what? I say the freakin rich. That is the idea our founding fathers came up with and I am still on board with the original plan.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:27 am#19 – SANTO, remember? You’re supposed to go ask George Clooney.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:29 amRepugnant Soldier,
May 11th, 2006 at 11:32 amYou don’t cut taxes in the middle of a war when you are spending $6 billion a month on said war.
These reckless tax cuts are devaluing the dollar. What do think is going to happen when China and other countries start dumping their dollar holdings? Your IRA will not be worth the paper it is printed on.
Yes, your IRA is invested in business, and businesses hire people; Chinese people, Malaysian people, Bangladeshis, etc., etc.
We can call him “Santa’s Gnad”
May 11th, 2006 at 11:33 amTracy can’t answer my question. I pay taxes for education(no kids) and do not complain because I know it is good for society (agnostic). I never complain about paying taxes, why should the rich?
May 11th, 2006 at 11:33 amBlue – Touche’!
May 11th, 2006 at 11:34 amisn’t this just stupid? If running a household this way the normal person would be bankrupt and living on the street. It is stupifying to imagine the twists in logic required to cut income when the bills are getting bigger. just amazing.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:39 amI salute your integerty in not supporting these neocon policies!
Comment by Retired Republican Soldier — May 11, 2006 @ 11:25 am
And I give the finger to your lack of integrity in supporting the neo-con policies.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:41 amPeople that support these tax policies feel that their money is being unfairly ’stolen’ in the first place to support the ‘welfare state’.
Actually if the Republicans are so concerned about that why aren’t they against all of these pork projects — Railroad to Nowhere, Bridge to Nowhere, Halliburton, missle defense that doesn’t work, etc. That’s the real welfare state. Oh yeah and let’s not forget about the thousands of companies that make their headquarters in the Virgin Islands so they can avoid taxes altogether. A few months ago I heard on a conservative talk show about one particular building the in the Virgin Islands that is supposedly the headquarters for hundreds of companies, guess they don’t need a lot of floorspace.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:45 amSo Krazny I can count on you to pay the difference in the tax rates? Why not exceed the amount the Feds say you owe? I am not currently in a financial position to do this, but I support your efforts just the same. God bless your generosity!
May 11th, 2006 at 11:46 am#29, I have no kids either, but GLADLY pay taxes.
I help poor people eat.
I help explore the cosmos.
I help patrol the sea lanes, making them safe for everyone.
I help pay for veteran’s prescriptions.
I help build and maintain highways.
I help pay for everyone’s life, liberty, and their pursuit of happiness.
In short, I take GREAT PRIDE in paying taxes. I live in the most awesome country in the history of the planet. We are stronger, healthier, and more materially comfortable than we have ever been. It bothers me immensely that Bush has undone so many things that generations of Americans worked hard for, but I have faith America will come around and return to Clinton-era policies. Hell, before Bush, we were going to have the national debt paid off in a decade. . .
The bottom line is, I am part of a community by paying taxes. I am part of a larger whole. I feel good about doing my part to help other people, even though I receive less in return (materially) than I give. But that’s what trying to be a good person is alll about.
It seems the rich, or, at least the type that Bush represents, are petty and vindictive. They resent helping the larger whole (and then hvae the gall to call themsleves “Christian”). Shame on them.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:46 amI’m looking forward to this ownership society.
Once I get “born” into a rich family, as Duhbya Says,
I will be rubbing my syphillitic dick on all of their glasses, bowls, plates, spoons, etc.. Ya know Urinate in their food, Fecal matter in their cereal.
Hey Mr Bush Can I be your Slave? Please?
Actually I havent paid taxes in years, good thing, I suggest yall do the same, stop paying the crap and they will be forced to stop this insanity.
Why Pay Tax they dont? Think they can lock up the whole country? Nope. LOL
May 11th, 2006 at 11:49 amThink about it.
If the United States abuses YOUR money, why should you give it to them?
I DON”T
Kewl! OTF is onboard for paying more taxes! Maybe I should think of a catchy name? I have it: Stop Tax Unfairness Pay Individual Duties! Or you can just use the abbreviation STUPID. What color tshirts should I order for you all? I think at least the rest of us should buy you a tshirt for your efforts.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:51 amTAX STRIKE!!!!
TAX STRIKE!!
TAX STRIKE!!!
The silent, and not so silent majority can and will WEILD a great big stick if this crap doesn’t stop.
Keep it up W, the troops don’t even like you, nor half of your Base, you people are Crazy Wackos Psychos.
Make me a Slave I double naught dare you bastards to try,.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:52 amIf I felt my tax money was going to help and support the citizens of this country, I have no problem with a tax increase. however the taxes they are discussing here, don’t effect me or around 95% of the population. Money made from investments is income, and income is taxed. it is a very simple idea. I do find it amusing, that the government is considering repealing or extending a tax break granted to wealthy investors, and you who most likely wouldn’t survive without your VA benefits seems ready to fight to the death for reduced benefits, and an overwhelming national debt. I am sorry if I think the ultra-rich should pay more in taxes then me. I don’t consider that class warfare, I consider it the price to live in our country.
So tell RRS how are you VA benefits these days? It seems like things are getting a little slim. escpecially when you consider the cuts made to make up for the war.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:55 amNext we will go after corporate america, one CEO at a time, one corporation at a time, one whore then another, if you have no EMPLOYEES you have no PROFITS right?
Ok people, we need to tighten our grip, whats the biggest Whore company today? Halliburton?
Okay Halliburton employees, what if we create a list of jobs at other compnaies, that are not greedy assholes, and find them work there, then the next comes, EXXON, Exxon employees will be found elsewhere.
YOU CAN”T run a COMPANY on management alone can you?
May 11th, 2006 at 11:56 amLMAO.
Your going DOWN BUSHCO!!
Hey whose gonna remove the trash form the elites homes? Not me, whose gonna mow the elites yards fix their cars or planes, not me!!
LOCK OUT
May 11th, 2006 at 11:59 amLOCK OUT
LOCK OUT
If they look Wealthy SCREW EM before they screw you, they are materialistic assholes anyway. no loss to the world, its their insatiable greed that casues alot of this resource wars anyhow, look at cheney, Using America Soldiers for Profits, Fascism Awry!
#9
Eliminate all discretionary spending, which accounts for about 1/3 of all federal spending. This is the MAIN cause of so much money being wasted in Washington.
Eliminate all corporate subsidies. With record profits Exxon doesn’t need them.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:59 am#12
Where is the Soviet Union today?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:01 pmWhere is the Soviet Union today?
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 12:01 pm
Bankrupt because the spent too much money on defense, and a war in the middle east.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:02 pmSo our Representatives have solved the problems of education, healthcare, bird flu, National security, alternative fuel, helping the survivors of Katrina, etc, etc.
I know taxes are necessary. That is the cost of a civil society and infrastructures to support our Democracy, our way of life. Our way of life is not cheap, there is a financial cost to a peaceful society. We need a middle class and that doesn’t happen by accident. The wealthy use more resources and they should pay accordingly for the luxury that a civil society brings them to do their thing. Countries where there is a huge discrepancy between worth are the most corrupt, and our trend is not a good sign for future generations.
What I dislike is corrupt politicians that don’t represent the people, don’t represent the people against the powerful corporations, practice cronyism, trample over our Constitution, have no sense of perspective and priorities (i.e., they’d take our money to paint a fish on plane in Alaska before improving National Security), pander to the lowest. Our way of life, our Government isn’t failing us, but the leadership in our Government is failing us greatly! And that is a HUGE problem.
Bush tells us the terrorists hate us for our way of life. Why the hell is Bush then doing his darnest to destroy our way of life here at home.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:02 pmWhere is the Soviet Union today?
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 12:01 pm
Making friends with China.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:03 pmWell you sure can’t solve them with tax increases. You can solve the problem with reduced federal spending, which will require REAL conservatives to be elected to Congress and of course the Presidency.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 11:00 am
Ship’s already sailed on that scam, Tracy – these ARE “real conservatives.” Your precious ideology was always about getting and keeping power. All the other stuff (fiscal restraint, etc.) was windowdressing for the rubes.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:04 pmneed a new thread so I can express my opinion on NSA database
May 11th, 2006 at 12:06 pm#15
Clinton didn’t bring it under control. Clinton’s tax increase was specific to pay down the national debt, while the balance budget amendment, i.e. real spending cuts was forced down Clinton’s throat by the Republicans in 1994.
“What is it about taxes?”
What about cutting federal spending? The liberals go just as nuts when you mention the word “cut” when it’s nothing more then a reduction in the rate of growth when it comes to most entitlement programs. The feds have NEVER had a smaller budget than the previous year.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:08 pm#16
Maybe they are hiding in your house.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:09 pm#18
“And we can achieve that by taking money away from the military (fewer folks to sit around and stragegize).”
Everytime I see bin Laden or another terrorist on the video tape I seem to see nothing but Russian and Chinese made weapons.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:13 pmThe rapture is a comin’ and only good repubs and american taliban will be allowed to rake it with them / May they keep it for a thousand years .
May 11th, 2006 at 12:16 pmOne of the Republicans favorite sayings is that ‘corporations never pay taxes’, they just pass the cost of taxes on to the consumer.
I propose that if that is so then let’s limit the taxes to corporations ONLY because they will just pass the tax on to the overburdened consumer anyway.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:16 pmWell you sure can’t solve them with tax increases. You can solve the problem with reduced federal spending, which will require REAL conservatives to be elected to Congress and of course the Presidency.
Comment by Tracy #1
FYI OTF, if you “repeal†a tax “cut†you are most definately RAISING taxes. But those that feel these tax cuts are shameful, they can just pony up the difference when they pay taxes. Imagine how “clean†you will feel after paying the full tax burden. Heck why not go back to the tax tables of the 1970s? I salute your integerty in not supporting these neocon policies!
Comment by Retired Republican Soldier #21
T’rashy and Retarded Republiscum,
You both deserve to have one of those F3 tornadoes or category 5 hurricanes, or out-of-control wildfires destroy everything you own…
…povertize (bankrupt) your greedy al Cracker a*ses because you’ve been striken with some painful incurable disease (not fatal- but so debilitating that you CAN’T work)…
…have your insurance lapse (home, health and car), and watch your kids go hungry…
…then have some of your fellow right wing, conservative inbred neighbors tell you to “pick yourself up by your boot straps”…
…but somehow I get the feeling that your hypocritical natures would take over…
…and you’d be applying for “government” assistance…and crying for mercy…
May 11th, 2006 at 12:16 pmThe feds have NEVER had a smaller budget than the previous year.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 12:08 pm
One guess who has been in charge of the fed budget for the last 12 years.
Republicans
Guess who has dramatically increased federal spending and the size of the government?
Bush and company.
Guess who was attacked as being anti-military when he made a decision to close some bases?
Clinton.
Guess who was praised as a genuis when he decided to close some bases?
Bush
Fact: when Bush entered office the national debt was being payed down, and there was in fact a budget surplus. I guess when you are a selfish human being they seem like “entitlements” I see funding things like education as a necessary part of our country. The better educated our society the better jobs they will hold, and the more taxes they will pay. Keeping people from living in poverty, also a good idea. Poverty breeds crime, another simple idea.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#20
“Why should someone who is making 10x + more than me pay less than i do as a percentage of the income I pay taxes on?”
Are you referring to the current PROGRESSIVE federal income tax system? The rich pay a higher percentage of their income to the feds than the middle class does.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#28
It’s the asinine percentage, not the principle of paying.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:25 pmThe rich pay a higher percentage of their income to the feds than the middle class does.
Yes they do.
But let’s look at investment income. Continued tax cuts on investment income help one group of people. The kind that have the luxury of having money to invest. In other words, the ‘rich.’
Do some of these cuts help me? Sure do. My wife and I had a combined income over $170,000 last year. Man, did we get screwed with taxes. But you know what? I didn’t bitch about it. We can afford it, so I have no problem in paying my share.
When there are families of four out there living on a single income of 35k/year, I’m not about to complain about paying taxes. Show me why anyone needs a $500,000 tax break when they are making $10 million/year.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:25 pmI sure do not want my taxes going to the NSA. They are now spying on millions of Americans. I would rather have it go to poor people.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:28 pm#47
They went bankrupt because their economic system couldn’t sustain their economy. The U.S. spent even more on defense and is still the #1 economic power in the world.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:34 pmUnbelievable – I think SANTO has a special hard on for you… I kinda feel like I got off pretty easy… what do you think?
Comment by G.W.SuperChrist — May 11, 2006 @ 12:10 pm
Dear god, I hope not. Santo’s a woman. Where’s Zoo with those brillo pads right about now?
By the way, she hates your name and demanded somewhere that you change it. I think you’re not out of the woods yet :)
May 11th, 2006 at 12:36 pmThey went bankrupt because their economic system couldn’t sustain their economy. The U.S. spent even more on defense and is still the #1 economic power in the world.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 12:34 pm
Not for much longer at our current debt rates. China will overtake us soon. Thank you for playing. have a nice day spamforbrains.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:37 pmThe U.S. spent even more on defense and is still the #1 economic power in the world.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 12:34 pm
As financed by China. We owe them most of the $9 trillion in debt we have.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:38 pm#50
Since you are not a conservative…you couldn’t possibly know. If the current lot of Republicans in congress are true conservatives then why is the base so pissed off at them right now…which includes myself?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:39 pm#60
“One guess who has been in charge of the fed budget for the last 12 years.
Republicans”
And the surplus was made because of the Republicans passing the balanced budget amendment (7 out of those 12 years BTW). After 2001, I agree the Republicans and Bush went ballistic. This is why I am calling for real conservatives to replace the current congressional lot.
“Fact: when Bush entered office the national debt was being payed down, and there was in fact a budget surplus.”
Which the government should NEVER be running and was created by the Republicans.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:48 pmSANTO – Sweetheart this is not name that tune… we are all familiar with the works of Bob Marley… Do you have anything original to contribute?
May 11th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#63
“Continued tax cuts on investment income help one group of people.”
The help the VAST majority of people especially those who have those savings accounts called 401ks or IRAs. That’s a rather large percentage of the American workforce, including alot of middle income people.
“My wife and I had a combined income over $170,000 last year.”
And are you also saying the you deserved to make that much money?
“Show me why anyone needs a $500,000 tax break when they are making $10 million/year.”
Tell me first why they should be payed $10 million a year in the first place.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:55 pmTracy, my fellow TPers may smack me for this, but part of me agrees with you.
I agree that the current version of the Republican party is nothing like the true small-government/fiscally responsible Republican party of old. Doesn’t even resemble it in the slightest. The neo-conservatives have become the most vocal part of the Republican party and until the traditional conservatives stand up and take back the GOP, I believe the party in general is in for some rough waters ahead.
I used to consider myself an Independent due to my conservative views on fiscal responsibility and my liberal views on social issues. But in the current political climate, I’m considered a moonbat.
You only have your party’s leaders to thank for that. Until sanity is restored to the GOP and they begin to extract themselves from the deathgrip the evangelical wing has on them, I’m voting a straight Democratic ticket.
May 11th, 2006 at 12:57 pm#67
So when China is #1 economically in about 20 years and the U.S. is second, we are going to suffer the same fate as the USSR? The same BS was spouted about the massive debt that the U.S. ran up in the 1980s and then we had the 1990s…go figure. Go read a U.S. economic history book.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:00 pmTracy is right. She, like many others, is a true conservative. That means she (like the other conservatives) know the one solution to any problem (and, you know, there is only ever one viable and actionable solution to any political issue). Sure, they may disagree with the current Republicans in office somewhat, but since it is really not about the United States of America – it is about party loyalty – she will defend the actions and decisions of these politicians to the end. Besides, Bush owned, what?, 3? 4? Businesses? I mean, you are not going to own that many businesses and NOT have a great knowledge and ability to handle financial matters. Right? So, if you are not a true conservative, you are a Democrat Liberal who has no plan, no ideas, no intelligence, and no clue. It is all about being loyal to the party (and that is not a fascist outlook – really – it is just “how it is in Americaâ€: you are with us or you are against us. Black and white. Although most conservatives would prefer ‘just white’… well, menial labor is always necessary for the unpleasant and worthless tasks (like checking groceries, cleaning streets, and all those other nasty jobs that should be filled by the stupid and the inferior… possibly even the mentally handicapped, so that they can be productive members of society). So, don’t tell a true conservative that they are wrong, because they are never wrong, and their leaders may annoy at times, but overall they are never wrong either. Besides, party loyalty is everything. A true conservative will judge (in true Christian style) everyone that they meet, every show they watch, every musician they listen to, and if the relevant person(s) is/are not a true conservative, then the true conservative will know that nothing they say or do is of merit or consequence. Everyone who is not a true conservative has no real ideas: you are a true conservative, or you are stupid. So, and this is not fascist either, deal with it and become a conservative or shut up because nothing you say can ever have any value unless it matches the conservative ideology (the ONLY one that is correct or functional).
(sarcasm still running, but in idle….)
May 11th, 2006 at 1:02 pmYou can solve the problem with reduced federal spending, which will require REAL conservatives to be elected to Congress and of course the Presidency.
Nice try, Tracy. You guys got to elect exactly the people you wanted the past five years. If these Republicans in power are not “real conservatives” then none exist. So don’t shrug off your massive mistakes and fundamental policy flaws by suggesting you’ll fix this with the next people you vote in.
Also, do you think we won’t have to pay back our national debt? Exactly how much national debt do you think we can handle? Ten trillion? Twenty? When do we start paying it down?
May 11th, 2006 at 1:05 pm#73
The help the VAST majority of people especially those who have those savings accounts called 401ks or IRAs. That’s a rather large percentage of the American workforce, including alot of middle income people.
No, they don’t. 401k income is only taxed when the income is withdrawn. So it doesn’t help the vast majority of Americans. It only helps those that are withdrawing money from their 401k. And I still maintain that that group of people are much better off than most. Show me how many family household incomes of 35k have enough to put away into a 401k.
And it doesn’t help with IRAs, either. The money that goes into a traditional IRA has already been taxed. It isn’t taxed at all when it is withdrawn. And once again, your average household that is lower to lower-middle class income isn’t going to have the money to invest in an IRA, anyway.
And are you also saying the you deserved to make that much money?
Yes. We both went to college, got degrees, and work in high demand fields. She’s a homehealth nurse and I’m a software architect. We both work our asses off (my wife more than me – she’s crazy). So, yes, we deserve the money we make.
Tell me first why they should be payed $10 million a year in the first place.
They shouldn’t. But they were paid $10 million. So why shouldn’t they pay more taxes on their income? They can live EXTREMELY comfortably, and still have millions left over.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:05 pm#71 Tracy, get your head out of Rush’s drug addicted ass. Clinton is whom you worship, you just are too naive to see that. And really, thanks for screwing our childrens’ futures. Selfish stupid pig that never answers questions, only diverts and distracts with crap you just heard from Fox.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:06 pmThe rich pay a higher percentage of their income to the feds than the middle class does.
Comment by Tracy #61
T’rashy,
says who?
…all you know is what the lying, corrupted OMB, and other tainted fiscal departments of the government want you to believe…
…common sense tells me that the more one makes- especially the gazillionaires and celebrities- the less one pays in consumer driven taxes…
…poor and middle class working people pay more in gas taxes (because we’re always at the pumps)…
…or taxes at the grocery stores or clothing stores because we’re always there…
…you have NO idea whether or not the “statistics” the OMB and others put out are valid…
May 11th, 2006 at 1:09 pm#79 I believe it is futile bobcat. It is a repub that will never admit wrongdoing. She/he was the kid in school with chocolate on her face and sleeve that denies eating the brownie.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmAnd the surplus was made because of the Republicans passing the balanced budget amendment (7 out of those 12 years BTW).
Republicans never passed the balanced budget amendment. They passed balanced budgets after long protracted fights with Clinton. If you need me to point out who fought on which side, look at how Republicans showed their true colors when they had their guy in the white house.
Answer this: Who was the last President to present a balanced budget to Congress? And then tell me who the “true conservatives” are.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:11 pmDidn’t republicans shut down the Federal government, because of the budget the Clinton proposed? talk about throwing a fit, and then blockading the government.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:13 pmOnce again, after reading another conservative view, I’m reminded of what I continually say:
When issues concern others less fortunate than themselves:
Liberals are empathetic. Conservatives are apathetic.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:15 pmLiberals ask “How can we help them?” Conservatives tell them “Help yourselves.”
Liberals don’t mind going the extra mile for others. Conservatives are only in for themselves.
#86 That about sums it up. I have always said one major party difference is care and concern for our fellow man. Republicans are just plain selfish.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:20 pm“Go read a U.S. economic history book. Comment by Tracy ”
Tracy you should TAKE YOUR OWN MEDICINE. You want to say it’s because of Congress that the economy and budget was what it was under Clinton – HISTORY disagrees with you. And besides, based on your premise, that means that the ‘Reagan’ economy can be handed to the Democratically controlled Congress? You really should learn to THINK before you post – your comments NEVER hold up under scrutiny.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:30 pm
#88 –
Careful, Ryan. With facts like that, Tracy will have to get more creative to make up things to support her views.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:33 pm#3 Yeah that’s what I love about catholics and christians, you can be a horrible person all your life and as long as your one of these and can just repent and everythings fine….
May 11th, 2006 at 1:37 pmJust like “Thou shall not kill” unless there of a different religion then me……
Is it even possible that current catholics and christians could be more full of shit?….
#90. yeah. they could be conservatives, too.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:39 pm#77
You have just replaced IRI.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:48 pm#78
“If these Republicans in power are not “real conservatives†then none exist.”
Again you can’t say that when you don’t know what a true conservative is.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:52 pmbig papa, please help me understand how my losing everything will help you and how heaping more taxes on working people will help the poor? I am not uncompassionate of my fellow man, but I believe that the only real person who can help you is yourself. If you lost everything in Katrina and are still waiting for the Feds to swing by and give you a job, a house, food, and clothing you really have a BAD motivational problem. Life goes on, move on. If you have an ailment, find a job in which you can work within your constraints. I work with a man that was born with no legs or arms. He works in a call center and has worked there for almost six years. He could just sit home and watch TV and bitch about taxes. Trust me you don’t want to get into a discussion about not being able to find a job, a house, food, or clothing with this man. I do have a condition that limits my ability to work but I look at him and wonder what right I have to complain. If you’re able to spout off in this forum, you should be able to find work. And please spare me you class warfare platitudes and your black racists’ rancor.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:57 pmAgain you can’t say that when you don’t know what a true conservative is.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 1:52 pm
That’s as nonsensical as saying that because you are not one, you can’t know what a real woman is. Or a real anything else that you are not.
May 11th, 2006 at 1:57 pm#66 – I think we need to get out the wire brush on this one. ;)
May 11th, 2006 at 2:04 pmI think we need to get out the wire brush on this one. ;)
Comment by Zookeeper — May 11, 2006 @ 2:04 pm
At least ;)
May 11th, 2006 at 2:06 pm#79
“No, they don’t. 401k income is only taxed when the income is withdrawn. So it doesn’t help the vast majority of Americans.”
The money that goes into 401ks or IRAs are basically money market accounts, i.e. they are being invested into the market. If investment taxes are lowered it will eventually help with those savings accounts, i.e. their returns will be higher.
“So, yes, we deserve the money we make.”
So why doesn’t a teacher at an elementary teacher make as much money as you do considering they probably work harder than you do?
“They shouldn’t.”
Why not? You just said that you and your wife supposedly earned every nickle of the $170,000? How do you know that they didn’t work their ass off for every nickle of that $10 million?
“They can live EXTREMELY comfortably, and still have millions left over.”
You could live comfortable on half of your income, so why no go ahead and pay the government $85k?
May 11th, 2006 at 2:17 pm#80
You are hilarious! LOL!
May 11th, 2006 at 2:19 pmNo bobcat_grad..Tracy will just run to Rush give him a couple of oxycodone and post the jibberish he spews again….
May 11th, 2006 at 2:25 pmSANTO – Young lady, it is probably actually a violation of international copyright laws to simply post the entire lyrics of songs as if they were yours. At the LEAST, you MUST credit the author. Admin?….
May 11th, 2006 at 2:29 pmPoint proven in my 102 post by her 100 post(and yes Tracy I know you Claim to be a guy, but MA claims to be a lawyer
May 11th, 2006 at 2:29 pm#100 The point was that he DOES NOT whine about taxes, like the conservatives, and pays them because they are a part of the contract you have with society, as being a person living in society. The person(s) making 10 million, however, tends to whine quite a lot about paying taxes… and why? If they pay THEIR FAIR SHARE of taxes, then how does that break their back. Their fair share is greater because thier income is greater: they enjoy a greater amount of luxuries and amenities. Did they earn it? Some probably did, and many probably did not. Doesn’t matter, as the fact is that someone’s income is what it is. If you invest your money it is to hope to gain profit. Profit should be taxed: as the people profit, so should the country (and that is through taxes). Personally I have never even heard of anyone who invested money instead of paying for, oh, say necessities like food or shelter or heat. Those who have money to invest have that money to lose: it is expendable. It is a luxury. Most of that multi-million dollar income will not be spent on necessities, it will be spent on luxuries (to include investments). I have heard many conservatives, in theior great compassion, say that a person should have no problem living on 20k or 30k a year, even with a family, and if they can’t then they are wasting money on too many unnecessary things (i.e. luxuries). Therefore, anything anyone makes over whatever figure you determine as necessary for survival is simply luxury money. I’m all for luxury, but I am also all for ‘paying your dues’. And anyone who makes LESS than what you would determine to be a ‘living wage’ is someone who needs help — preferably by increasing that person’s wages in some manner – right? And those who make money over that basic living standard (is it minimum wage?….) is making extra money, and actually can therefore afford to trade off some of that luxury, through taxes, to contribute to society. If you think that working your job for your paycheck is contributing to society you are mistaken — you are earning a living, and you know it. If you think giving to charity and then writing it off your taxes is actually charity.. you are very deluded (all you have done is shifted your output of money, which financially does not affect you, whjereas real charity is a loss to you – a sacrafice). Taxes are the sacrafices we make to exist in and have the society we want, for that society (our country) is supported and maintained and DEFENDED by that money. If you are Christian, Jesus was specifically asked about paying taxes in one of the fables: and his response was, “Render unto Caesar what is Caesars…” — i.e. pay your taxes.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:49 pm#84
“Republicans never passed the balanced budget amendment.”
In the house they did which was controlled by the Republicans. In the Senate they didn’t which was controlled by the Democrats.
http://uspolitics.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=uspolitics&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fclerk.house.gov%2Fevs%2F1995%2Froll051.xml
“They passed balanced budgets after long protracted fights with Clinton.”
Yeah, Clinton had to submit five budgets before it was finally accepted by Congress.
http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-08-98.htm
“Who was the last President to present a balanced budget to Congress?”
Clinton under pressure from congress in 1995. See link above.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:51 pm#85
Getting a decent budget after 5 trys from Clinton seemed to be the only way to get his attention.
May 11th, 2006 at 2:54 pm#86
“Liberals are empathetic. Conservatives are apathetic.”
Liberals had NO interest in welfare reform in the 1990s….pretty apathic if you ask me.
“Liberals ask “How can we help them?†Conservatives tell them “Help yourselves.—
It’s about hand outs vs. a hand up. I will help you because I feel guilty vs. I will help you help yourself.
“Liberals don’t mind going the extra mile for others. Conservatives are only in for themselves.”
Going the “extra mile” depends on whether or not you agree or disagree with the status quo.
May 11th, 2006 at 3:01 pmTOO bad THIS congress which has many of the same republicans you rail for wh=en Clinton was President didn’t stand up to the chimp when he broke all records for deficit spending like return they budgets as fiscally irresponsible…..
seems they and you have a double standard
HUH
ya thunk it might be true?
May 11th, 2006 at 3:01 pm#88
“In August of 1993, Clinton had signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 which passed Congress without a single Republican vote. It significantly raised taxes on the top 2% of taxpayers, without providing middle class tax cuts as he promised during the campaign. But more importantly, it mandated that the budget be balanced over a number of years, and put spending restraints in place.”
Never mind the fact that, just 2 years later, the 1995 budget that Clinton proposed would have resulted in $200 billion per year deficits for, well, forever. Both the Congressional Budget Office and the president’s own Office of Management and Budget came to this conclusion. Yeah, he was there when the budget was “abalanced”, but there wasn’t much he did to make it come about.
Later,
May 11th, 2006 at 3:13 pm#100. The money that goes into 401ks or IRAs are basically money market accounts, i.e. they are being invested into the market. If investment taxes are lowered it will eventually help with those savings accounts, i.e. their returns will be higher.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 2:17 pm
I need you to explain this again. It sounds like you’re saying that my tax-deferred investments will earn more now because I will pay less taxes 20 years from now.
May 11th, 2006 at 3:15 pm#109: There is no double standard. All ideas presented by conservatives are the one right solution for the item at hand. Conservatives are completely right on all issues and never wrong. The only failures occur with the Democrat Liberals who never have done anything positive for the country and never have any ideas of any kind whatsoever. If a conservative plan fumbled or failed it was because of the interference of the Democrats. Any Democrat action (for they never have any plan) that succeeded it was because the conservatives made it work. No ‘kudos’ to the Democrats for anything ever.
May 11th, 2006 at 3:15 pmOr so every conservative I have encountered says. And since they are, by their own admission, “right” (as in “correct” and “morally superior”), then what they say must be true. They say so.
#110
Uhm… that should be “balanced”. My bad.
Later,
May 11th, 2006 at 3:17 pmYou need to realise that ultimately the problem with the rich is…
With money it isn’t how much money there is in an economy that dictates how good the economy is, its how fast that money flows through the economy. Basically, every time you spend money, you are boosting the economy, because that money is going towards giving someone else a job. With the Rich however, you have a situation where the really rich guys just don’t have all that much they really want.
This is why higher taxes on the rich are called for, not because they take up more luxuries, but because the money they have got has a nasty tendency to lie inert, or worse get invested on the Stockmarket (which is basically a pyramid scheme, because nobody but nobody buys stocks in the hopes of getting paid dividends any more. It is like gambling on the horses, except CEO’s are a whole lot less attractive then horses.)
May 11th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#112 mysticagent: Well said.
May 11th, 2006 at 3:32 pm#50
Since you are not a conservative…you couldn’t possibly know. If the current lot of Republicans in congress are true conservatives then why is the base so pissed off at them right now…which includes myself?
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
I can’t know, but I can guess; the “base” is pissed off with “them” because “they” haven’t delivered on the religious issues (anti-gay marrage amendment, abortion, etc) – it has NOTHING to do with straying from your mythic fiscal “conservatism.”
Perhaps it is YOU that isn’t really a conservative, since you didn’t seem to know that.
Harriet Myers’ nomination was torpedoed because she was so enamored of Bush that the base realized that she wouldn’t push their agenda either (combined with the fact that Myers’ confirmation would have been a huge weapon for the Dems at the mid-terms), so they cut their losses by opposing her, and holding out for an Alito. Pragmatic reasons -not conforming to some imaginary “conservative” template.
I also didn’t hear many “conservatives” complaining about “nation building” after Iraq. Or complaining about insufficient armor for the troops once we got there – so much for “believing in a strong military.”
Exactly What DO conservatives supposedly “still” believe in?
May 11th, 2006 at 3:41 pm#88
“You want to say it’s because of Congress that the economy and budget was what it was under Clinton”
I was specifically talking about the federal budget and deficit, NOT the performance of the U.S. economy. Remember the government doesn’t create economic growth.
“And besides, based on your premise, that means that the ‘Reagan’ economy can be handed to the Democratically controlled Congress?”
No, because aside from tax cuts the U.S. government does little for helping the U.S. economy grow. You seem to think that the U.S. government is responsible for economic growth, but it isn’t. Clinton’s tax hikes didn’t help the economy grow.
“In August of 1993, Clinton had signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 which passed Congress without a single Republican vote.”
Democrats controlled the House and the Senate in 1993 and the vote on this you speak of was 218-216!…so don’t even attempt to hype that the fact that no Republicans voted for it. This bill is also known as the big tax increase of 1993 and is the bill that Clinton signed that ultimately led to the house being taken over by the Republicans in 1994.
“it mandated that the budget be balanced over a number of years, and put spending restraints in place.”
Very few restraints.
http://www.senate.michigan.gov/sfa/Publications/Issues/FEDERAL/FEDERAL.html
Tell us why did Clinton have to submit four inflated budgets before Congress finally accepted it?…because the following BS isn’t it:
“They were furious at being strait jacketed into spending cuts by the bill…”
That is pure liberal drivel. Republicans took over congress in 1994 because the American people were promised a middle class tax cut and Clinton failed to deliver.
“Clinton repeatedly made skillful use of this perception to pass his initiatives while blocking theirs.”
Examples?
BTW it would be nice if you would give credit when you quote another source for over half of your post.
May 11th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#100. The money that goes into 401ks or IRAs are basically money market accounts, i.e. they are being invested into the market. If investment taxes are lowered it will eventually help with those savings accounts, i.e. their returns will be higher.
Comment by Tracy — May 11, 2006 @ 2:17 pm
I need you to explain this again. It sounds like you’re saying that my tax-deferred investments will earn more now because I will pay less taxes 20 years from now.
May 11th, 2006 at 4:03 pm#110: Reagan took pride in not presenting balance budgets and deficits. The 1st Bush was hampered thoughout his term by Reagan’s ignorance of finances as revealed by Stockman and Bush#l reference to “voodoo economics”. With a burgeoning economy under Clinton your reference to a $200,000,000,000 deficit occuring as a result of the 1995 was a pipe dream because he ended his administration with a surplus. There was no fear of a deficit occuring because an economy was in full stride with a reasonably good balance of trade, full employment with meaningful jobs, reduction in the size of federal government, a viable tax policy, low interest rates, reduced interest payment on the debt and double digit growth in private investment .
May 11th, 2006 at 4:03 pm#104
What point do you think you proved?
I also know you claim to be a Army vet, but does it make it true? Not necessarily.
May 11th, 2006 at 4:04 pmMY post in 102 which was sarcasm….repugs just have NO sense of humor along with no sense of honesty…decency……morality….culpability….responsibility….
May 11th, 2006 at 4:10 pm#116 Thank you. I simply observe. or I observe simply. or …. oh, well….
May 11th, 2006 at 4:11 pm#114 Your childish innanity deserves no further commenting. You are a non-entity until you have something productive to say at SOME point (you don’t ALWAYS have to say something productive, but every so often…). … oh, and lay off the meth, girl, it isn’t helping you.
#118 Conservatives still believe in “looking out for number one”, and complete and blind loyalty to whatever the current party line is (mind you, there is a smaller, but clear, measure of the same attitude toward “Party” elsewhere).
“Republicans never passed the balanced budget amendment.â€
In the house they did which was controlled by the Republicans. In the Senate they didn’t which was controlled by the Democrats.
This is obviously some new definition of the word “passed” that differs from the legal definition of how bills become law. Care to explain why Republicans didn’t pass the balanced budget amendment when they took the Senate?
May 11th, 2006 at 4:11 pmIRAs are invested in corporations who eliminate jobs for Americans, who hire cheap labor in third world countries, who plant their headquarters in off shore islands to avoid paying taxes, who pay off the govt. to relax standards in the workplace, and pay their CEOs grossly obscene bonuses.
May 11th, 2006 at 4:17 pmWhen IRAs are reduced by half in the near future, when the dollar is devalued, those numbers on paper will wake up Americans – too late – that Bush&co has sold the nation. The uber-rich will manage all right because they have already begun to hedge against this eventuality, but the average Joe will be looking at another recession, if not depression.
It’s insanity to think we can pay for a war AND cut taxes simultaneously.
Remember “guns and butter” at least the “butter” went to poor, elderly, and kids, — today we have guns and wealth, with all the wealth going to the already rich.
#105
Conservative like myself complain about paying higher taxes (no taxes themselves) because the government is so damn inefficient when it comes to spending it. The U.S. government is the biggest, greediest, most inefficient corporation in the world. Wouldn’t you agree?
“Their fair share is greater because thier income is greater:”
Right so why unfairly compound the situation by making them pay even more by a higher percentage? A flat tax would still produce the same result, i.e. the much wealthier person would still pay far more taxes than the middle income person. This all comes down to why I asked Bobcat_grad why should someone like a doctor should get paid more than a teacher (the both work hard for their money), for instance, when the government turns around and taxes the higher income at an even higher percentage. A flat rate with no deductions would be the most fair is my point.
“Most of that multi-million dollar income will not be spent on necessities, it will be spent on luxuries (to include investments).”
Investments are NOT just a luxury. They are the MAIN vehicle behind which allows the U.S. economy to grow and create jobs. Are you kidding? If you were to withdrawl all of that investment money that you label as a “luxury” the U.S. economy would have been in the the tank long ago.
“And anyone who makes LESS than what you would determine to be a ‘living wage’ is someone who needs help”
Absolutely.
“I have heard many conservatives, in theior great compassion, say that a person should have no problem living on 20k or 30k a year, even with a family, and if they can’t then they are wasting money on too many unnecessary things (i.e. luxuries).”
They are wrong.
“If you think giving to charity and then writing it off your taxes is actually charity.. you are very deluded (all you have done is shifted your output of money, which financially does not affect you, whjereas real charity is a loss to you – a sacrafice).”
I don’t get to write off the entire principle amount!…only a percentage. If I choose to give to a private charity I can gurantee that it will be more effectively spent there rather than if it were given to the U.S. govenrnment…and no a real charity is not a loss to me considering I chose to do it NOT for myself. Again, I can’t redeem the entire amount from the IRS at the end of the year.
“i.e. pay your taxes.”
I agree, the debate here is whether or not a progressive tax system is fair…I say no.
May 11th, 2006 at 4:39 pm#109
Oh, and they most definitely deserve the boot for changing their stripes!…however considering the last Democratically controlled congress presided over a budget that ran up huge deficits doesn’t make me want to vote for them either.
May 11th, 2006 at 4:46 pm#111
No, I am talking about the investment taxes payed by the company(ies) that are investing your money being lower will help out your return in the long run.
May 11th, 2006 at 4:53 pmIf you’re able to spout off in this forum, you should be able to find work. And please spare me you class warfare platitudes and your black racists’ rancor.
Comment by Retired Republican Soldier #94
Retarded Republican,
The point of my post was that sometimes people DO need a hand up during times of great tragedy…
…this IS a function of government…
…which needs to be supported through tax collection…
…you dumb a*s al Cracker (and al Cracker wannabe) “conservatives” always want to make that point out to be about the red herrings of “handouts” and welfare queens…
…and if you don’t believe racism exists in America (especially in the Bushite inbred’s America)…
…then you’re delusional…
…spare yourself, eat-a-gun…(since you love ‘em so much)…
May 11th, 2006 at 5:09 pm#118
“I can’t know, but I can guess; the “base†is pissed off with “them†because “they†haven’t delivered on the religious issues (anti-gay marrage amendment, abortion, etc) – it has NOTHING to do with straying from your mythic fiscal “conservatism.—
The partial abortion amendment passed…I think in 1999. True conservatives are absolutely pissed off about the out of control federal spending. The current lot in congress rolled over and yes your guess was wrong.
May 11th, 2006 at 5:11 pm#132. So, “Duke&Duke” handles all my accounts. I have everything in “Plastic.” Duke’s earnings are commissions on my returns from Plastic.
Are you saying that because Duke pays less in investment income taxes, Plastic returns more to my accounts?
I don’t see how Duke’s tax liability affects Plastic’s returns to me.
May 11th, 2006 at 5:12 pm#125
“Care to explain why Republicans didn’t pass the balanced budget amendment when they took the Senate?”
What year was that?
May 11th, 2006 at 5:14 pm#127
Who do you plan on providing your life extending drugs when you retire?
May 11th, 2006 at 5:16 pmYou know, what does it matter what these narrow-minded, ignorant, anti humanitarians think – want to know why? 31% AND DROPPING. How does it feel all you bush lovers?
May 11th, 2006 at 5:20 pm#129
“And yet THAT is reality – something that ALWAYS has a liberal bias.”
No comment about the large amount of democrats that voted against the 1993 tax increase?
“Bahaha, really? THAT’s what you believe? Wow, you really are a depraved psychotic.”
And yet THAT is reality…that’s unless you can explain why the Democrats lost the House in 1994 and haven’t been able to reclaim it since.
Averting another government shut down? Explain how the extension of funding of governmental services is some kind of stroke of genius on the part of Clinton. Try again with something that is relevant.
“Tracy, you’re ALWAYS outgunned on here”
“That’s true, but you just ignore sources that don’t have the ELEPHANT seal of approval…”
Considering you try to pass others commentary off as your own….you definitely aren’t one of those big guns.
May 11th, 2006 at 5:29 pm#130
“When it comes to military contracts – that’s true.”
So no domestic program is run inefficiently or wastes money? LOL!
“If you look at Social Security or Medicare however, their ‘overhead’ is a FRACTION of the overhead of commercial solutions that compete.”
That’s because they subsidized to the eyeballs by tax payers and will continue to need to have these subsidies increased as less workers in the future pay into the system and more retire! Also those two programs don’t have to compete with anyone. The taxes are taken out of your paycheck regardless if you want to participate in the program or not when you retire. They don’t have to come up with new ways to compete because the government is fitting the bill from tax money.
“How’s that FAtkins diet working for you anyway?”
What diet? I am 6′-2″ 225 lbs. and 12% body fat.
May 11th, 2006 at 6:55 pm#135
What affects whether or not your returns go up or down?
May 11th, 2006 at 6:59 pm#129: “The U.S. government is the biggest, greediest, most inefficient corporation in the world. Wouldn’t you agree?”
It certainly is now. We haven’t seen this level of bald-faced corruption and pillaging at taxpayer expense since the Hoover administration.
The Bush II administration seems to have, as its core purpose, not the public good, but the enrichment of those who both happen to be well-connected to it and lack any moral scruples.
We can discuss the relative merits of liberalism vs. conservatism all day long, but it doesn’t really apply anymore because the current administration is more akin to Mussolini-style corporate fascism than traditional American republican (small “r”) governance.
May 11th, 2006 at 7:01 pmbig papa, please help me understand how my losing everything will help you…?
Comment by Retired Republican Soldier #94
Retarded Republiscum,
Forgive me for not addressing your most pertinent question in my earlier response…
…I was unavoidably interrupted…
…I despise mindless, spineless, selfish, morally bankrupt, hypocritical, dumb right wing inbred Bushites…
…EVERYONE who voted for George W. Bush at ANYTIME falls into that category…
…because you’ve ALL voted for mass murder, corruption, and TREASON…
…and deserve to be cursed…
…that means YOU!
.
Oh, and I’d feel so much better knowing that justice (for all the innocent DEAD Iraqis, Gulf Coast victimsof Katrina, and exploited American working class people)…
…was served…
May 11th, 2006 at 7:19 pmWhat diet? I am 6′-2″ 225 lbs. and 12% body fat.
Comment by Tracy #142
…and (like your idol Ahhnold) one of the dumbest mofos on the planet…
…with 100% brain fart…
May 11th, 2006 at 7:24 pm#143
“Large amount? Wow, no wonder you’re a REPUBLICAN, you CAN’T DO MATH.”
Nearly 20% of his own party voting against his (Clinton’s) tax increase is a rather large number in politics.
“See VICTORY doesn’t make one right – it just makes one victorious.”
Which is why it’s amazing the Democrats held on to Congress soo long. People are far more informened today than they were in those days and finally with the advent of new news sources apart from the typical big three, Americans, as you conveniently leave out, started seeing the liberal Democrat BS philosophy for what it was….a big promise that tuned out to be a lie.
“Ah, virtually everything Clinton did was genius, it’s why you idiots still haven’t caught up :)”
He never had a stroke of genius during his tenure. He just rode the American people and economy for all they were worth…just like his interns.
“Not at all, I never made any claims that what I post is 100% my content.”
By not giving credit to the source you are plagerizing.
I pasted the content as a BLOCKQUOTE (as in A QUOTE FROM SOMEONE ELSE).
Oh BS! you were trying to make yourself look smarter than you really are by pasting someone else’s work. Give us a break!
“That was your claim about the crap you copy and paste from redstate.org.”
I have never pasted or even been to that website. Another lie of yours or just a dilusion?
“Don’t project your plagarism habits on me.”
I haven’t plagerized anything…you have.
“You by contrast copy and paste your talking points without such courtesy.”
I have NEVER copied and pasted any of my content unless I gave proper credit to the source.
May 11th, 2006 at 7:39 pm“Nearly 20% of his own party voting against his (Clinton’s) tax increase is a rather large number in politics. Comment by Tracy”
So then the 70% of americans that DON’T SUPPORT BUSH, must mean that EVERYONE doesn’t support him using this irrational ‘logic’.
“By not giving credit to the source you are plagerizing. Comment by Tracy”
Actually CLAIMING that you’ve written something you haven’t is plagerism – and yet that’s not what I did. I suggest you purchase a dictionary.
And what did I claim was MY post, that you say I plagerized? If you can’t be specific, then you’re just doing a SMEAR typical of your swiftboat immorality.
“I have NEVER copied and pasted any of my content unless I gave proper credit to the source. Comment by Tracy ”
Sure you have, the flat tax nonsense you wrote is right off of any one of those flat tax advocacy sites. And the nonsense you wrote about Clinton is identical the crap that everyone posts on any number of reichwing propaganda sites. Just because you paraphrase something, doesn’t mean you aren’t plagarizing, you’re just dishonest in how you see yourself.
May 11th, 2006 at 11:15 pmEliminate all corporate subsidies. With record profits Exxon doesn’t need them.
Comment by Tracy —
I agree on that one, and I’m sure most of the posters here do, too. Have you ever told your Republican Senators (since you say you’re from Texas) and your Congressperson that?
May 12th, 2006 at 1:08 am#144
But far smarter than you, considering your poor language skills.
May 12th, 2006 at 10:49 am#146
“So then the 70% of americans that DON’T SUPPORT BUSH, must mean that EVERYONE doesn’t support him using this irrational ‘logic’.”
Yes and no. It means that they are not satisfied with the results of his performance not that they don’t agree with ALL of his policies.
In post #88…everything the you indented and in some instances highlighted was ALL your own words?…or were they verbatium from a web site. There is nothing wrong with doing this as long as you cite ther source.
“to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one’s own : use (another’s production) without crediting the source.”
“Sure you have, the flat tax nonsense you wrote is right off of any one of those flat tax advocacy sites.”
Specifically what site(s)? I wrote what I think about a flat tax policy, based on what I have read about the subject, but I didn’t (as you did) take an entire quote from someone else as paste it in as my own.
“And the nonsense you wrote about Clinton…”
Nonsense?…it’s the truth unless you have evidence otherwise.
“Just because you paraphrase something, doesn’t mean you aren’t plagarizing, you’re just dishonest in how you see yourself.”
YOU need some definition help…bad.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=plagiarized
http://www.answers.com/topic/paraphrase
May 12th, 2006 at 11:31 am#147
Absolutely, and directly to board members at Exxon/Mobile stockholders meetings that I attend annually.
May 12th, 2006 at 11:50 ami noticed that you misspelled “Mobil” at 11:50.
i wonder why that happened. people less trusting than i may suspect that you are lying about the rest of you statement.
most others will smirk at the “language skills” boast that you made at 10:49.
May 12th, 2006 at 12:26 pmi noticed that you misspelled “Mobil†at 11:50.
i wonder why that happened. people less trusting than i may suspect that you are lying about the rest of your statement.
most others will smirk at the “language skills†boast that you made at 10:49.
May 12th, 2006 at 12:27 pmyou know what i think is funny? you misspelled “plagiarizing” at 11:31
you did it seconds after linking to a site with the definition and the proper spelling AND after boasting about your language skills.
May 12th, 2006 at 12:38 pm#152
http://www.exxonmobil.com/corporate/
May 12th, 2006 at 1:49 pm#153
I missed a “i” in plagiarizing. So I am not a professional typist. BTW when did I boast about my language skills?
May 12th, 2006 at 1:53 pm#154. what’s that mean to me? you misspelled “plagiarize.” you know how to link to a corporate website.
May 12th, 2006 at 2:22 pm#155. you misspelled it at 7:39, too. but, you misspelled it a different way. you didn’t know how to spell it and you didn’t look it up either time. it’s not a typo. it’s ignorance.
at 10:49, you wrote this, “But far smarter than you, considering your poor language skills.” this statement is a boast.
#154. what’s that mean to me? you misspelled “Mobil.†you know how to link to a corporate website.
May 12th, 2006 at 2:55 pm#155. you misspelled it at 7:39, too. but, you misspelled it a different way. you didn’t know how to spell it and you didn’t look it up either time. it’s not a typo. it’s ignorance.
at 10:49, you wrote this, “But far smarter than you, considering your poor language skills.†this statement is a boast.
Re: The argument over the difference between “plagiarizing” and “paraphrasing,” I have worked as a both a book and magazine editor, and it is standard practice even when paraphrasing to note whom you are paraphrasing.
May 12th, 2006 at 10:33 pmAs for your spelling, Tracy, you wrote plagiarizing” a couple times in earlier posts as “plagerizing”(SIC), so it’s not a matter of simply leaving out an “i” when you later tried writing it in imitation of the person who had spelled it correctly in arguing with you. I’ve, in fact, noticed several spelling errors in your posts, and when you make the same mistake over and over, one can only conclude that it is not a typo but a lack of knowledge and/or willingness to use the dictionary you’ve suggested others use. I suppose this may lead you to call me a “bitch” again–such a mature way to react when your words don’t pass scrutiny!
#158
“I’ve, in fact, noticed several spelling errors in your posts, and when you make the same mistake over and over, one can only conclude that it is not a typo but a lack of knowledge and/or willingness to use the dictionary you’ve suggested others use.”
I didn’t suggest that others use a dictionary. I commented on Big Papa slang writing style that is full of made up words, i.e. his grammar. I assumed you have read his posts. If you had you would have understood why I said his language skills are so poor.
“I suppose this may lead you to call me a “bitch†again–such a mature way to react when your words don’t pass scrutiny!”
No it’s not; however, you saying that I suggest that others use a dictionary when I didn’t is very annoying.
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