You’ve got questions, we’ve got answers.
By on May 12th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
You’ve got questions, we’ve got answers.
The telcos may be liable for tens of billions of dollars for illegally providing your phone records to the government. We explained why on ThinkProgress yesterday. Many of you had questions. We’ve posted the answers here.
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Thanks for the answers.
There’s some good information there that I’ll be sending to my Republican father who thinks the NSA can do whatever they want…. the law be damned.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:01 pmWhat about this statute I read about that gives the Prez the ability to deny a lawsuit if it threatens “national security”?? Aren’t they using that to prohibit some NSA warrantless wiretap lawsuit filed by the ACLU? Why wouldn’t they do that now?
I foresee the phone companies pointing all 10 fingers at the gov’t, and I see the gov’t simply ignoring any court ruling on this, claiming “Article II”…where am I wrong?
May 12th, 2006 at 3:03 pmI heard on NPR that the government paid the telecom companies to get this information. That can’t be good.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:04 pmIt’s time to get your ACLU memberships in order and let the monster class action suit begin. If we can’t use our votes to have a say in the government then we will have to bankrupt it to gain control. This must be stopped.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:14 pmIs it $1000 per breach of contract? That could add up if each person’s line was traced say 100 times. Also, I wonder if this is grounds to void my contract with my cel phone carrier (Verizon Wireless). They said they were not involved, which I do not believe for one second. If they broke their contractual obligation to me, can I then cancel my service and not be penalized the $200 they charge for pre-maturely terminating service?
May 12th, 2006 at 3:26 pmOkay, another question:
How about if the telcos anonymized the numbers that they gave the feds? That is, it’s possible to map each phone number to a unique, randomly generated ID; the relationships would be the same (modulo matching between area codes and prefixes, which would probably also have to go away) but customers would no longer be identifiable except possibly through impractically long sequences of computations. Suspicious IDs could then be returned to the telcos for actual customer information.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:47 pmWOW – thanks for the research.
May 12th, 2006 at 4:07 pmThere are so many quesions out there and I believe some people are surrendering their rights because they believe it is too complicated, and too unrealistic to believe that the telcos can actually be sued.
I am a proud and long-standing, card-carrying member of the ACLU. We have never needed the organization as much as we need it today.
Working Assets (the LD and wireless phone company) has joined the ACLU lawsuit against the NSA. Info at
May 12th, 2006 at 4:37 pmThe citizens don’t understand what is at stake, they don’t understand their own government, the media is negligent in their job.
Corporations never pay, they just pass their liabilities on to society.
Besides, if you want a land line, there are no alternatives any longer, no competition… that is why the teleco’s want to cannibalize the Internet because there isn’t much more that they can merge with.
The violating teleco’s won’t get punished by the shareholders, customers, suppliers, or creditors, so the only think we can hope for is a moral corporation, a corporation that doesn’t break the law.
The book, Megatrends 2010 indicates we may be heading that way. It is the only thing that mayl save our Democracy, our way of life.
May 12th, 2006 at 4:38 pmGreat information, Mr. Swire, thanks.
May 12th, 2006 at 5:05 pm#9 Jack,
May 12th, 2006 at 5:07 pmThere is a new version of Megatrends? I read one about 20 years ago and it was amazingly accurate.
So the 63% of Americans who think it’s ok for the governement to spy on them, are going to turn down the $1000?
May 12th, 2006 at 5:48 pmI used to work in the systems area of a long distance company and a competitor of one of the regional bells and am fairly familiar with telephone call records. A few comments:
1) There is never a need to take customer names out of the record because the record is matched to the customer at a later date. Namely, an original call record doesn’t have any names in it. The switching equipment processes so many records that they are very compact and consist basically of date, time, originating, terminating number, call length and some switch idenitifying info.
2) Many local phone companies actually use lines from other companies and the telephone company switches would have records of calls passing from an originating number until it reached it’s destination. So its not necessarily obvious that swtiching from one company to another will bypass the snooping capability. For example, a local call which originated from a Qwest customer but which traveled to a Verizon customer would have records in both of those customer’s switches. Whether the phone companies agreed to give out billable records or traffic records would determine how complete the database of calls is. In the latter case, I’m not sure that changing phone companies will help anyone.
May 12th, 2006 at 5:50 pmI want the telephone monopolies to be bankrupted by class actions suits, and dissolved.
Then we can go back to having many small companies to choose from instead of like only 5 or something.
There’s a reason monopolies are bad, but they seem to go hand-in-hand with the Bush administration, and that’s just plain bad business for America.
May 12th, 2006 at 7:19 pm[...] If these phone companies are found to have violated the Stored Communications Act, they are subject to some hefty costs. Source. But what happens to the Bush administration for breaking the law? Well, I suppose we’ll just have to wait till our red country turns blue. [...]
May 12th, 2006 at 9:45 pmEverything and I mean EVERYTHING, (assets, debts, contracts, locations via gps or cell, medical, voting records pets spouse, kids, pet medical records, your car’s health and speeds if you have a newer car…), that can be electronically stored is known. It’s also been shared among other Anglo security agencies and many multinational corporations. It’s going to get even better too.
Sept 01 changed everything as the people reached for their ankles and stuck their head in the ground, accepting every BS answer, rather than asking tough questions and getting answers. It’s too late now, so it’s time to pack it up and wait it out. It should be an interesting ride.
I can see some changes on the horizon for such inaction such as:
Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to the government of the Secret State of America, and to the Elite for which it stands, one nation under surveillance, with liberty and justice for those that can afford it.
The declaration of dependence
We, the sheeple, in order to form a better flock, will abide by the rules of the elite so that we should remain loyal to those with better judgement, who have written our history and will write our future. That we will not see, hear or speak evil of those who we owe our continuing existence too and like 9/11 will act as a sheep whose eyes are blinded by the light of our leaders. That it is better to listen and obey than to question the judgement of those who know so much more than us. Just as Able Danger never existed, we can always count on our overseers to tell us the truth.
May 12th, 2006 at 11:03 pmLily, the poll was from the Washington Post which I’m sure is no surprise to us all here. and from what I read, it was based on under 600 people being polled. So that poll holds no water whatsoever, especially with the Chimperor Boy King’s approval ratings down below 30%
Here’s what I did today. See what anyone thinks of this.
Today, I did my own investigation on Verizon by applying for a job at one of the stores that was opening up a mile from my place. I sent in my resume the day before and today, the guy who got it called me to come in for an interview.
I came in. How long did the interview last? 5 MINUTES! Wow! Don’t you wish all job interviews were like that. But, here’s the funny part. When the interview ended, I asked the guy doing the recruiting about what happens if I was asked about the NSA investigations. Do you wanna know what he said?
He said, “Verizon does not give out any information on phone calls to the government.” I was surprised. But in order to hide my shock, I moved on and asked him if he was sure. He said he was sure. Nice acting job from the guy who was probably a decade younger than me, especially with the spiky hair. Oh, and I forgot, they pay minimum wage plus commission. Now when I worked at Sprint last year, I made more than that, plus commission.
One helluva investigation, huh? Now I know which company to avoid in terms of
May 12th, 2006 at 11:18 pmgetting my ass kicked by a reasonably irate customer.
Last nite on NBC news coverage of this mess, the closing remarks referenced a claim by the administration that a certain court case gave them authority to obtain call records without a warrant…call records, but not call content. Has anybody followed up on this angle?
May 13th, 2006 at 6:35 am#17 Jimbo set you sites higher. why in the world would you want to work in a cell phone store? whats next for you. selling pencils by the subway? Get A Real Job. I sit here at my friggin computer and Clear 170 grand a year. Stop complaining about the way the govt behaves and concentrate on making a real living. The world isnt that f’ up when you got cash in your pocket.
May 13th, 2006 at 10:23 amWalter- U R a troll with neither a brain nor any clue. I was investigating, not actually looking for a job at a cell phone store. I found out there was deception at a Verizon store and that deception represents what’s happening now in the telecom world.
Quit acting like a Faux News propagandist and start acting like a human being.
May 13th, 2006 at 11:15 amDo the data supplied to NSA include location information from the 200,000 towers across the US which serve tens of millions of mobile (cell) phones and pagers? Even when there is no conversation or messaging, there would be a substantial amount of location data, since the average user leaves the battery in their device at all times. Perhaps someone in the industry can clarify how the mobile phone networks use location data to anticipate and manage traffic, and how these data have been used so far by NSA.
May 13th, 2006 at 11:44 am–
Does anyone have an idea how we, as present or former customers of AT&T, Verizon, Bell South can be listed in the class action lawsuits that will inevitably surface?
May 15th, 2006 at 8:52 amWireless Cell Phone Companies
It is a quite interesting post but quite difficult to understand for me -
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I found your post comments while searching Google. Very relevant especially as this is not an issue which a lot of peaople are conversant with.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:18 pmHow To Obtain Contact Information For A Cell Phone Number
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April 13th, 2008 at 6:28 pm