ThinkFast: May 15, 2006
ThinkFast: May 15, 2006
The Christian Aid charity warns that 184 million people in Africa alone could die as a result of climate change before the end of the century. The group’s report warns that climate-induced floods, famine, drought and conflict could reverse recent gains in reducing poverty.
“I don’t really believe those polls.” – First Lady Laura Bush, on her husband’s sinking approval ratings. Mrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.”
“Despite a congressional order that the military assess the mental health of all deploying troops, fewer than 1 in 300 service members see a mental health professional before shipping out.” Soldiers showing signs of psychological distress are being kept on duty, increasing the risk of suicide.
Roll Call reports, “Federal prosecutors are seeking to interview at least nine current or former staffers on the House Intelligence, Appropriations and Armed Services committees as they widen their probe into the bribery scheme involving former Rep. Duke Cunningham (R-Calif.).”
A lawyer who sued Verizon last week on claims it violated privacy laws by turning over calling records to the National Security Agency said that customers of AT&T and BellSouth want to join the lawsuit. If other telecommunications companies are named, “it may be the largest class-action ever filed,†said New Jersey public-interest lawyer Bruce Afran.
On March 17, China declared that it had insufficient evidence to try Zhao Yan, a New York Times researcher charged with “revealing state secrets to foreigners.” But Zhao remained in jail and Chinese officials now reveal that they have “re-transferred the case to the Beijing Second Intermediate Court,” even though “they could not find an article of law to cite for the re-transfer of the case.”
Sunday was “Iraq’s deadliest day in weeks,” but the country’s parliament was less concerned with the violence and more concerned with the minutiae of legislative rules. One piece of important debate over “governing” on Sunday: insisting that lawmakers must be dubbed “representatives,” not merely “members” of parliament.
New Orleans remains “full of patients, devoid of doctors.” “More than half of the city’s hospitals remain closed,” only “a quarter of the city’s doctors have returned since the disaster,” and assistance from the federal government has been scarce.
The Washington Post writes that Rep. Allan Mollahan (D-WV) “set up a network of nonprofit organizations to administer the millions of dollars he directed to such public endeavors as high-tech research and historic preservation.” Mollahan’s assets grew from no more than $565,000 to at least $6.3 million from 2000 to 2004.
And finally: BREAKING NEWS – Karl Rove was not indicted on Friday. The New York Sun has the story.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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I wish Pickles would come here in her travels around the U.S. I’d let her know EXACTLY what I think of her pathetic rich boy husband who has never accepted responsibility for a damned thing during his privileged life.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:21 am“BREAKING NEWS – Karl Rove was not indicted on Friday.”
Breaking news? Or blatantly obvious?
““I don’t really believe those polls.†– First Lady Laura Bush”
Fair enough, most of the people here on TP choose to not believe the polls posted about the data mining, if we can pick and choose, so can she.
Hey Democrats Why Win?
“The most politically advantageous thing for the Democrats is to pick up 11, 12 seats in the House and 3 or 4 seats in the Senate but let the Republicans continue to be responsible for government,” said Tony Coelho, a former House Democratic whip. “We are heading into this period of tremendous deficit, plus all the scandals, plus all the programs that have been cut. This way, they get blamed for everything.”
Right, because the not winning strategy has worked so well over the past few years.
Education law leaves children behind
“Most states give themselves good grades on teacher quality; 33 states say 90 percent to 99 percent of their classes are taught by highly qualified teachers. Most of the rest put their numbers a tier below, in a range of 70 percent to 89 percent.”
“Although the federal term is “highly qualified,” the definition is widely regarded as more of a minimum qualification, because it requires teachers to know what they teach.”
So some states have 30% of their teachers not knowing what they teach, No Child Left Behind is trying to fix this issue, and the headlines blame the law, not the state/school district?
May 15th, 2006 at 9:24 amI don’t think we know whether Rove was indicted or not. I wouldn’t discount Jason Leopold’s claims. Jerilyn Merritt has more reasons to believe it here…
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014842.html
May 15th, 2006 at 9:26 am“I don’t really believe those polls.†– First Lady Laura Bush, on her husband’s sinking approval ratings. Mrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.â€
Well, it probably depends on which poll you are talking about:
The first lady’s words and actions are also perhaps a reflection of her sky-high approval ratings with 85 percent saying they approve of the job she is doing, according to a recent CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll.
“Looking at the numbers, she seems to be a very popular person, with good cause,” said Mrs. Bush’s spokesman.
The above quote brought to you by CNN.com:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/16/first.lady/index.html
May 15th, 2006 at 9:28 amMrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.â€
I’m sure only hanging out with family members and other wingnuts makes this possible.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:29 amFurther investigation of the House Intelligence Committee?
These are the folks that Bush is briefing fully on his various activities where he is spying on Americans.
Hard to be concerned with Americans rights when you’re more concerned about covering you butt so you don’t go to jail.
Note to Laura Bush. If some was saying that the other side of the White House was on fire would you just sit there because those around you said there was no problem and you should stay the course? Would you even think of asking someone to check it out further?
Just wondering.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:31 amNEWS FLASH!!! for the morning crowd: Senator Frist leaked classified info yesterday on Late Edition. Will the FBI investigate?
May 15th, 2006 at 9:32 amMrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.â€
YES! Please stay the course!
The longer Bush stays the course, the lower his ratings go. By the time the November elections roll around, Bush’s poll numbers will about -60%! (60% of the people who voted for Bush will deny ever having done so!)
May 15th, 2006 at 9:34 amA lawyer who sued Verizon last week on claims it violated privacy laws by turning over calling records to the National Security Agency said that customers of AT&T and BellSouth want to join the lawsuit.
Count me in!
Off topic, but I finally graduated from law school last Saturday. Juris Doctor, with Distinction.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:37 amFaire
Congrats.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:37 amLaura Bush didn’t attend the Mother’s Day protest yesterday, did she?
May 15th, 2006 at 9:38 am“I don’t really believe those polls.â€
It’s reciprocal – the people polled don’t believe in you either.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:52 am#2,
I agree with you on this. Since about half of all teachers quit the profession within the first 5 years, it is impossible to keep the pipeline filled. Becoming a teacher in California requires about 7 years of college. Four years to get a B.A., another year of education courses, a year of internship as a “student teacher,” and another year of education courses to receive a “clear credential.” With that, one becomes a teacher, and is paid about $40,000/year. On the other hand, one could go to law school for those same three years post B.A. and get paid three times that.
And if aspiring teachers really knew the political environment of most school districts and the absolute power over their lives that school administrators possess, they would never enter the profession in the first place.
In my opinion, No Child Left Behind as currently written, is designed to fail each and every public school. Every public school could be taken over by the federal government. Or, the government finally gets vouchers passed nation-wide.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:54 amFellow party members in the bunker used to tell me,”stay the the course”, too Laura.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:56 am#10.
Thanks.
May 15th, 2006 at 9:56 am(hey laura, thoes people that say ’stay the course’ mean ’stay the course’ towards IMPEACHMENT!)
May 15th, 2006 at 9:56 am#14 “In my opinion, No Child Left Behind as currently written, is designed to fail each and every public school. Every public school could be taken over by the federal government. Or, the government finally gets vouchers passed nation-wide.”
Sounds about right to me, the first scenario scares me, the second one I really hope happens.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:02 am#4 – good catch.
So, back in Feb. ‘05, Laura Bush was for the polls before she was against the polls.
.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:02 amLaura doesn’t believe the polls — so what else should we expect from the Stepford wife? It doesn’t change the fact that 60 people out of a hundred think her husband is an abysmal failure.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:04 amLaura will be paraded out more frequently now because she is more favorably received than the chimp-in-chief, but does’t everyone know that she has no influence over him? After 25 years, the librarian still hasn’t taught him to read or speak beyond the 4th grade level. People liked Pat Nixon also.
Congrats, Briseadh na Faire!
May 15th, 2006 at 10:05 amWell Done!
…so now you could represent me in, say, a telecommunications lawsuit I’m thinking of? ;-)
It’s GROUND HOG DAY ALL OVER AGAIN!
US accuses Syria of seeking nukes!
Posted by: jreinhart1 on May 15, 2006 6:52 AM [Report this comment]
They are at it again. The report is available at http://www.wpherald.com/
storyview.php?StoryID=20060513-103743-5873r
Standard operating procedure for the US to grab a countries economic wealth and resources have been honed since Iran in 1953. It hit full stride in Vietnam. The breaking up of thef former Yugoslavia went practically unnoticed. Liberia did go unnoticed. Vietnam, El Salvador and many parts of Central America provided expertise on torturing the citizenry to death. Military support has practically been an on going exercies since the Carter administration.
1: get desired country hooked on money
Using economic hit men from large corporation, promise funds to build up country for capitalism from IMF, World Bank, other banks and corporate financing. Once established, tell country that credit is bad and jack up interest rates and force monetary and idealogical concessions.
2: create Chaos from small armed sqirmishes to death squads that are financed, armed and trained by NSA (CIA and Defense special/black ops). NSA will start the slaughter to bring about ethnic tension through confusing killings, torture… Later, the US psychopaths will have trained local military/police units made up of the countries worst killer and ratchet up the killing.
3: add military operations to armed, divide and conquer chaos. If necessary, the military will make their presence on the ground and possibly permanent. Expect all illegal weapons use from cluster bombs, defoliation agents and napalm as well as new weapons of mass suffering such as depleted uranium, smaller cluster grenades…
Some people are shocked at what has happened and some don’t think it is possible for the US to do so. However, any conflict that has involved the US has followed the same pattern for over a half a century. I would recommend to people to read what the structure of the National Security Act has done to the checks and balances of America and research what this group does.
Moyers “The Secret Government” PBS video, done in 1987 is very good and can be found at video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2397496401234089687&q=secret
May 15th, 2006 at 10:09 amCreated in 1987, it shows that the NSA has been used for the expansion of the American Empire, operating outside of the legitimate part of the US government.
As for denials that Rove was indicted — Rove has cancelled his planned speech at the Amer. Ent. Inst. today.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:12 amThe indictment story has also been corroborated by Larry Johnson, who said Joe Wilson had the same information.
So, let’ s see what happens. The announcement may ot occur until later this week.
Briseadh na Faire:
Re: #20 — Thanks!
And allow me to extend my congratulations on your graduation!
May 15th, 2006 at 10:14 amOoops…that should be #19. Looks like one of the posts was removed.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:16 am#23. Good catch, Marie. I was over at aei.org and saw no mention of it. One more reason to believe it’s true.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:16 am#19 squegeeboo sez…….”Sounds about right to me, the first scenario scares me, the second one I really hope happens.”
so you are saying the purpose of NCLB is for the ending of public schools?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:17 amThe only people in this country who currently care about the presidential polls, and actually believe them is left wing America. Those of us on the right can clearly see that the media has been at war with the Bush administration ever since their darling Gore was defeated in 2000, and especially since their new darling Kerry was defeated in ‘04. In addition, the Democratic party is also at war with the Bush. They desperately want their power back, and will stop at nothing to get it back. You’d think that would become obvious to you when Saddam and Bin Laden began echoing Democrat talking points, but no. You guys actually want every accusation and every smear against the president to be true. In fact I’m convinced that most of you believe every word. For whatever reason—the media has an obvious liberal bias. They don’t just simply report the news—they try to create the news. They’re actively involved in shaping public opinion, and then they triumphantly trot out their lowest presidential approval numbers. If you lefties were as interested in the truth as you were in the continual bashing of your political enemies, you would have been able to see these things for yourself. But go ahead—keep living in the reality that the media creates for you.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:20 am#27 “so you are saying the purpose of NCLB is for the ending of public schools?”
I think its purpose is to force the schools to a higher level of excellence, either thru standards applied to them thru NCLB, or after failing at that goal, thru competition with private schools due to a program like the voucher program.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:21 amI find it almost impossible to believe that the First Lady accomodates “people” just coming up to her. If this is true can we get a copy of her schedule? Speaking of schedules , the Halliburton shareholders meeting is this Wednesday May 17th in Duncan OK. They had to move it from Houston due to the protests. Also here is a great article on states trying to modify the NCLBA.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:24 amhttp://www.nea.org/lawsuit/stateres.html
#29….so you will be happy to see NCLB fail?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:26 amObama Harmed Helping Lieberman
Monday 15th of May 2006
By Jay Randal
Sen. Barack Obama is a rising star in the Democrat Party, but his association with Sen. Joe Lieberman is extremely damaging to his future in 2008 and beyond!
Joe is disliked by an overwhelming majority of Dems nationwide, so to associate with him in any way is a “Political Kiss Of Death,” in fact a political suicide!
Sen. Hillary Clinton is also skating on thin ice, by her hanging out with Rupert Murdoch the owner of FOX News Network, and calling Pres. Bush a charming man!
Dubya Dunce Decider’s approval rating has dropped below 30% now, which means that 70% dislike him a lot, and 53%+ of Americans want him impeached too!
Most Americans are fed up with the Iraq quagmire-fiasco-debacle, but some like Sen. Joe Biden do NOT seem to care, or are paid stooges for the Militarists!
The United States is entering a time of dissent/turmoil, caused by the Draconian policies of the Bush Regime, so who in the Congress will stand-up against Dubya?
( Jay Randal, political activist and writer in Stone Mountain, Georgia.)
May 15th, 2006 at 10:26 amCNN Banner
Bush administration to remove Libya from list of nations United States labels as terrorist states; plans to renew normal diplomatic relations, State Department and Libyan officials tell CNN.
No actual article on it yet
May 15th, 2006 at 10:28 amMaybe if some red-blooded native Americans travelled to Africa and rain danced for a couple of years, Africa would pull out of the doldrums.
The only meltdown that is will occur is the Bush Cabal fizzling into vapor.
It’s over for the neocons, no matter how they morph into the next incarnation.
Mother’s Day began as an anti-war protest.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:31 am#31
so you will be happy to see NCLB fail?
Nope, but I think it will fail, and when it does, I would rather see a voucher program then a complete federal take over of public education.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:31 ammaybe they should have the official removal from terrorist list ceremony in Lockerbie Scotland…..
May 15th, 2006 at 10:33 amGood Morning Unbelievable and Marie, looks like another Monday here with sunshine. From the looks of all the posts it is another good day to be away from the computer……
Poor mow em down Laura Bush has to stay the course with the decider and ofcourse she will always say what the right want to spread to their base. To bad it is all lies as usual.
Am hopeful Rove and Cheney will have charges brought up against them soon.
The trees are calling, hope you all have a great day……..Blessings
May 15th, 2006 at 10:35 am#35…”Nope, but I think it will fail,”…………so NCLB is a failure?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:36 amI would rather see a voucher program then a complete federal take over of public education.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 10:31 am
I just HAVE to hear this… from someone with not a clue about the public school system. What’s your wisdom SpongeBob?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:38 amSG, you gerfot NPR, National Propaganda Radio.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:38 am#39
“so NCLB is a failure?”
If students fail a test are they failures or is the test? I would say the students, and by the same token, I would say the public schools are failures more so then NCLB.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:40 am28–The continual claim that the media is biased is simply an indication that the right refuses to believe the truth. Since they can’t counter FACTS when presented, the only thing left is to blame the messenger.
BTW, if the media really WAS biased, they would have exposed the WMD lies before the war and we wouldn’t be in this mess in Iraq right now.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:42 amUnbelievable, I think you are being baited by the nut jobs here.
Good post Jay……….Blessings
May 15th, 2006 at 10:42 amLaura “Pickles, sorry about my ex-boyfriend” Bush says people come up to her and tell her to stay the course. Of course they do because she is in a closed meeting with an audience of right wing super nuts.
Rove, who is on his way out, informed the president that the thing to do now that an election is coming up about the border situation was to call out the National Guard, station them along the border. He further told the prez that he could then put on an army uniform and patrol the border in a hummer and his ratings would go up.
Believe it anyone? I dont.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:43 am……..but the NCLB was enacted to end those failures…..wasn’t it?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:44 amI would rather see a voucher program then a complete federal take over of public education.
Comment by squegeeboo
Don’t hold your breath, squeeze. Many of the poor are realizing that those vouchers won’t cover the expense of sending their own kids to school—only a way for the rich and upper middleclass to receive public assistance and public money to help with their private schooling. And for those of us with no children, we are figuring out that it will be us to pay more to keep the public school system running for those kids who are less fortunate. (_._)
May 15th, 2006 at 10:46 amStay the Course!! Stay the course of dropping poll numbers, low public moral, and impending impeachment!!
May 15th, 2006 at 10:47 am#46 but the NCLB was enacted to end those failures…..wasn’t it?
Yes it was, and it has forced some improvement. Check out the link I posted in #2
May 15th, 2006 at 10:48 amHi Sharon,
Enjoy your sunshine! It’s pretty nice here. But will soon be extremely hot and humid.
Corn, peas and beans have begun to sprout! Only two weeks left of school…
May 15th, 2006 at 10:49 amthe NCLB is a failure because the students are failures………where did you get your downward buckpasser skills…..Don Rumsfeld?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:49 amIf students fail a test are they failures or is the test? I would say the students
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 10:40 am
And I would say you have no clue what you are talking about.
Teachers do not see the Standardized tests until the students do. How do you prepare students for a test that you have never seen?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:51 am“How do you prepare students for a test that you have never seen?”
By teaching the subject.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:52 amUnbelievable, I think you are being baited by the nut jobs here.
Comment by Sharon Cox — May 15, 2006 @ 10:42 am
Today, definitely the other way around. I like to argue. And I have the time because we’re watching an educational video today. :)
May 15th, 2006 at 10:52 am#49……”Yes it was, and it has forced some improvement.”
and what’s that…an improved chance of vouchers?
May 15th, 2006 at 10:54 amBy teaching the subject.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 10:52 am
Which parts? You only have 18 weeks – minus breaks, workdays and exam days.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:54 am“Which parts? You only have 18 weeks – minus breaks, workdays and exam days.”
All of the major ones, and cover most of the minor ones in HW.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:59 am#57…….are your children in private schools now?
May 15th, 2006 at 11:01 amhey, how about my suggestion that the ceremony marking Lybia’s being removed from the terrorist list be held in Lockerbie Scotland?
May 15th, 2006 at 11:03 am#57
May 15th, 2006 at 11:04 amNo kids yet Walt, I’m only 22
we could have Rep. Curt Weldon pinning a medal of freedom on Gaddafi
May 15th, 2006 at 11:05 am“hey, how about my suggestion that the ceremony marking Lybia’s being removed from the terrorist list be held in Lockerbie Scotland?”
Might be viewed as in Bad Taste, just maybe….
May 15th, 2006 at 11:06 am#53 –
I agree with Squeege to an extent.
Teachers need to stop teaching towards a standarized test, and start teaching the material and encourage critical thinking skills.
Of course, Americans LOVE statistics, and it’s difficult to quantify critical thinking skills. So instead, we continue to create standardized tests to standardize students.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:06 amAll of the major ones, and cover most of the minor ones in HW.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 10:59 am
Not enough time. Show me your lesson plan to pare it down.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:07 amAnd I would say you have no clue what you are talking about.Comment by unbelievable
Sorry, squeeze, but unbelievable wins. She’s a teacher, you know, while you and I are only a couple of rightwing wingnuts hoping to sound intelligent here.
Hey, I have a question about those school vouchers you mentioned that are paid for by my tax dollars—who is going to pay for the public school system once all the better off kids are taken out?
I’m guessing you didn’t study history or you would know why we have a public school system in the first place: because in the old days only the wealthiest families could afford to educate their children and the rest of society was uneducated and kept in servitude.
You need to get a clue.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:08 amand Rep. Curt Weldon schmoozing with Gaddafi isn’t in poor taste?
May 15th, 2006 at 11:08 amTeachers need to stop teaching towards a standarized test, and start teaching the material and encourage critical thinking skills.
Comment by bobcat_grad — May 15, 2006 @ 11:06 am
It used to be that way before No Child Left Behind (I have been told by other teachers). Bush, once again, is the problem in the equation. Remove him and his failed policies are substitute for a President with a reality based Educational philosophy.
Federal Government isn’t the problem. The problem is buracracy that doesn’t let people do their jobs.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:09 amhey, how about my suggestion that the ceremony marking Lybia’s being removed from the terrorist list be held in Lockerbie Scotland?â€
Might be viewed as in Bad Taste, just maybe….
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 11:06
Like standing on the ashes of the world trade center and posturing – after running away and hiding on Air Force One?
There’s bad taste for ‘ya.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:11 amSANTO is like everyone’s crazy uncle who sits in the corner at family functions that rants about weird stuff and no one pays attention to.
But we still love our uncle.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:11 amdidn’t RR try to “off” Gaddafi but ended up killing his wife and what, a niece?
May 15th, 2006 at 11:12 amBut we still love our uncle.
Comment by bobcat_grad — May 15, 2006 @ 11:11 am
Not all of us. :)
May 15th, 2006 at 11:12 amGaddafi has suffered enough for his crimes….you know like how OBL has suffered for his………sounds like the Glenn Reynolds/instapundit show
May 15th, 2006 at 11:17 amHey, unbelievable, I feel your pain. My father taught history and geography to 7th and 8th graders for 35 years. He retired three years ago but began bemoaning the fact that they were no longer allowed to encourage critical thinking skills thinking for oneself. Instead they were taught to prep kids for the standarized 9th grade exam kids took going into highschool. Force feed them facts, make them spit them back at you.
I’m not saying the lact of critical thinking skills are teachers’ fault. I’m saying that they are doing the best job they can under the current educational policy.
I would go the next step and say this approach is why we are seeing so many ‘followers’ emerge in today’s youth, and very few leaders. They can’t think for themselves; they’re told what to think and how to feel. Perfect sheep for the GOP to program.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:17 am#27 this is probably a goal. A friend of mine who is a supporter of vouchers and generally everything Bush was of the opinion that public schools needed to be done away with long before Bush entered office. Education is the responsibility of the family. He is against student lunches, busing and pretty much all activities that his kids are not involved in. So if his view point is in anyway similar to the radical right wing then, yes the decimation of public education is on the agenda.
#28 The only people in this country who currently care about the presidential polls, and actually believe them is left wing America. Unless of course it is 2002 and Bush is sitting qt 70+%, then I recall all the bushista’s were big believers in polls, or perhaps last week when the polling supposedly supporting the domestic spying was released, they seemed to really like the polls then.
Those of us on the right can clearly see that the media has been at war with the Bush administration ever since their darling Gore was defeated in 2000, and especially since their new darling Kerry was defeated in ‘04. Please explain when the media was in love with Gore in 200 or Kerry in 2001, I seemed to have missed that one as the media parroted the lies of the right willingly and often. Kerry had an affair was all over the headlines for a while. Swift boating the coverage was not on the lies spread, but on the inept response of Kerry. With Gore the Internet lie was originated in the press as were several other lies. Somehow with Gore his service in country in Vietnam (Where 90% of the troops never saw combat) was denigrated in the press while Bush’s fictional national guard service was elevated to Medal of Honor status. So please do educate me with specifics. If it is simply a fat drug addled radio announcer’s opinion you are parroting then you have no case as that sob only wants negatives reported regardless of their validity and anyone who does not parrot his hate must be a liberal traitor.
In addition, the Democratic party is also at war with the Bush. They desperately want their power back, and will stop at nothing to get it back. And how is this different from the period from 1992 – 2000? Al parties out of power want that power back, therefore you have no point here.
You’d think that would become obvious to you when Saddam and Bin Laden began echoing Democrat talking points, but no. Which talking points are those? The ones where he supposedly is at war with us and hates our freedoms? Who is it exactly that is restricting those freedoms today? Hmmm, Bin laden echoes that republican talking point. How about hating gays? Or wanting to subjugate women or wanting to turn secular countries into theocracies, those all sound like republican talking points. Bin laden is an ultra conservative religious right winger and you need to get better information than bad talk show rhetoric. Sadaam? Are you serious?
You guys actually want every accusation and every smear against the president to be true. And you want them all to be false, regardless of the evidence.
In fact I’m convinced that most of you believe every word. For whatever reason—the media has an obvious liberal bias. That would be the media that was 100% duplicitous in the drive towards war? They don’t just simply report the news—they try to create the news. Like Judith Miller and the NYTimes echoing administration talking points without researching what we in the real world cal reality? They’re actively involved in shaping public opinion, Just like they falsely shaped public opinion regarding the war and Bush’s ability as president? and then they triumphantly trot out their lowest presidential approval numbers. If you lefties were as interested in the truth as you were in the continual bashing of your political enemies, you would have been able to see these things for yourself. But go ahead—keep living in the reality that the media creates for you. ZZZZZZZ
Too bad facts and reality are things republicans dread. If these last 25 years have taught us anything it’s that republicans can not govern. They are good at destroying things and plundering the national treasury but they simply can not govern our country. Hey, and American City is destroyed? F’em, they should have known better and be self sufficient enough to find their own safety and rebuild the damned thing themselves. A broken country with little threat to America, lets go fix it, too bad we f’d it up, it’s the dems fault not ours yadda yadda yadda. Which party is freaked out about mexican flags being flown, yet defends confederate flags being flown as a mark of heritage? Excuse me? The confederates were triators to the constitution and to support that flag slaps the face of Abraham Lincoln and every other person who served to hold the country together. But please do continue to support its flying while you freak out about little brown people carying sa symbol of their heritage. Republicans have nothing good to offer this country other than a swift exit. If you take a look through out our nations history since the nation went to the dem/reb two party system and think about corrupt leadership and ineptness in government the every regime that a realistic thinker can think of being corrupt ends up being republican. Dems have had their share of corruption too, but on more of an individual basis, on a party wide level they are not nearly as organized at it as the republicans have been. Just think Grant, Reagan, Bush II, Nixon, Hoover nothing compares to these guys, and a blow job in a bathroom is nothing compared to Iran Contra or the great savings and loan robberies of the 1980’s or Watergate etc,…
May 15th, 2006 at 11:18 amAs for denials that Rove was indicted — Rove has cancelled his planned speech at the Amer. Ent. Inst. today.
Comment by Marie — May 15, 2006 @ 10:12 am
He is speaking right now on C-SPAN?
May 15th, 2006 at 11:23 amForce feed them facts, make them spit them back at you.
Comment by bobcat_grad — May 15, 2006 @ 11:17 am
Pretty much. And why I will be teaching juniors seniors and some community college students architecture next year. No standardized anything. And I will be teaching them to think critically, solve problems, and understand world history and cultures. Consider myself very fortunate that I have this chance. Otherwise, I would underdstand why so many teacher leave the profession. It’s not teaching.
Your father must be disappointed in the current system. It’s hard not to be for many of the teachers who have been around pre-Bush.
I wholly agree with your ‘next step’. We over-protect children to their detriment (and ours as a society). I frequently worry for their futures when they cannot think for themselves and whine when they don’t get their own way… Much like our own President who hasn’t actually earned anything in his life himself, and doesn’t even read. This man holds the name office as intellectual giants such as Jefferson, Washington, and Lincoln. Not a good sign.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:26 amRegarding the standardized tests, I hae two kiss in school a 6th grader and a 4th grader. The teachers hate the tests even though the district I live in scores well above the state and federal averages. Why do they hate them? Because they take about a month out of their curriculum to teach the tests and to take the tests.
But how can they teach tests they have never seen before? It’s actually pretty easy. ANyone who has ever taken the CPA, BAR, SAT, GMAT, LSAT, ACT, GRE etc… knows that those tests are not available prior to the test, but there are many course available to teach you how to take those tests. Wow, how does that work? (sorry I have to be slow and simplistic for the republicans) you see, there is a tremendous amount of back history available on these tests so students can be taught a number of things.
For instance as an avccountant If I were to take the CPA today I would know that there are no current tests available (I think they stopped releasing them in 1998 or 1999. However there are plenty of people out there who have taken the tests and the people who run the courses analyse quyestion patterns and are able to judge fairly well what subjects will be covered ont he exam, and since the exam has sucha long history they knwo who these subjects will be looked at. What makes anyone think that standardized testing for schools would be any different? It’s not. The kids are taught the tests and it takes time from their learning, period. To simply say that the teachers shoudl teach the subject ignores another reality…not all kids learn at the same pace.
So while my kids who excell at math are workign ahead and others who are slow at math are workign behind, when test time comes around, they have to synch up their abilities for those few weeks. The slower students cram somthing they are having trouble with, while my kids have to slow down and review stuff they have passed by long ago. It is not so simple and anyone who tries to put a simple answer to a complex question either does not understand the situation, does not care to understand it or drives their answer from a blinders only ideological viewpoint.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:32 amSorry I can’t type when my blood is boiling and nothing gets it boiling faster than stupidity
May 15th, 2006 at 11:34 amI don’t really believe those polls.†– First Lady Laura Bush, on her husband’s sinking approval ratings. Mrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.â€
This ranks with “Let them eat cake” and “A lot of these people were underpriviledged before, so this is working out quite well for them”
May 15th, 2006 at 11:35 amBut how can they teach tests they have never seen before? It’s actually pretty easy
Comment by Mark — May 15, 2006 @ 11:32 am
Not the same. Those tests are taken BY CHOICE by students who want to pursuit those careers in college. And, EST offers practice tests and study guides to those who can afford them.
Go teach for a year and come back. Until then you’re just another ignorant talking head.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:38 amThe teachers I had in NY public schools had plenty of time to teach the material for the NYS regents exams(our standardized tests). The good teachers taught general problem solving so regardless of what came up on the test you could use critical thinking and figure it out, the bad teachers used past tests to teach what they thought would be on it, and if it was something you wern’t used to seeing, it was that much harder to figure out.
May 15th, 2006 at 11:57 amso, just what ARE w’s poll numbers???
May 15th, 2006 at 11:59 amthis morning i heard timmy tell katie they were in “mid 30s”…
well???
#35
I’d like to see high school and college educated people practice the proper use of “then” and “than.” Too many times I see “then” used when “than” was the proper word.
So, squeege, which school failed you?
May 15th, 2006 at 12:01 pmWC
None of them, although if NCLB was inacted when I was going thru, maybe my teachers would have worked harder on the grammer front with me.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:03 pm#85 goi ahaead and ignore reality. My kids get taught the tests, my kids have brought home booklets of sample questions to work on. Maybe not the exact questions, but neither are the people who take the classes teaching the voluntary tests. Regardless of what you believe I know what my kids work on at school and live in a small enough town where I know half the teachers personally and hear their viewpoints. This is reality period. I knwo reality has a well known liberal bias, but it is what is happening.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:04 pm#9 – Off topic, but I finally graduated from law school last Saturday. Juris Doctor, with Distinction.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Congratulations! Now the bar exams, and learning how to actually BE an attorney. Good on ya, mate!
May 15th, 2006 at 12:09 pmgoi ahaead and ignore reality.
Comment by Mark — May 15, 2006 @ 12:04 pm
You mean your reality? The reality of one town? Spare me. I’m a teacher. Three of my cousins are teachers and several friends. In several states and countries.
I am a liberal. I just am a realistic one. And the reality is that standardized tests are NOT in the best interests of any one. Because life is not a standardized test.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:10 pm#89….by your convoluted logic if NCLB was enacted when you were a student, then NCLB would have become a failure because you were a failure
May 15th, 2006 at 12:11 pmSpongeBob,
Typical egocentric perspective. Just because you (fill in the blank), then everyone.
I think it’s more productive to argue with a turnip on this subject.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:13 pm“And the reality is that standardized tests are NOT in the best interests of any one. Because life is not a standardized test.”
So what should the reality be?
May 15th, 2006 at 12:15 pm“I don’t really believe those polls.†LauraBot 2006
Just take another Xanax, deary, all the bad things will melt away. And you might want to back off the Botox, while you’re at it. Damn.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:20 pmSo what should the reality be?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 12:15 pm
Prepare students for life.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:30 pm“Prepare students for life.”
And whats the litmus to see if they are passing or not?
May 15th, 2006 at 12:32 pmWhat Laura is not saying is that the full quote was probably
May 15th, 2006 at 12:38 pm
And whats the litmus to see if they are passing or not?
Send them out in the wild with a toothpick, twine, chewing gum and a apple core and whoever brings back the biggest animal is at the top of the curve!
May 15th, 2006 at 12:41 pmAnd whats the litmus to see if they are passing or not?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
Life does not offer guarantees. You’ll be disappointed if you expect them.
By your standard, parents should have litmus tests to see if they are doing a good job preparing their chidlren for the world. Because parents are the most influential in tehir child’s lives. But we don’t have that. Why not? Why do you want to hold teachers to a far higher standard? At least kids get exposed to many teachers, unfortunately they just get two parents.
I say that you train teachers (their degree should afford them a similar level of professionalsm that yours will afford you) and allow the indivifual schools to decide who is a good teacher that they want to employ and who they don’t want to employ (much like the real world). The system will balance itself with moderation. Right now it is being smothered by control freakish micro-management and homogenization.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:42 pmThe system will balance itself with moderation.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:45 pmSounds like capitalism just a little bit. I know where you can register Libertarian :)
“allow the indivifual schools to decide who is a good teacher that they want to employ and who they don’t want to employ (much like the real world). The system will balance itself with moderation. Right now it is being smothered by control freakish micro-management and homogenization.”
Sounds like you want the private school system, but guranteed spots/funding for every kid. Something that vouchers would help towards achieving. Id also add it’s being smothered by the strength of the Union.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:48 pmSounds like capitalism just a little bit. I know where you can register Libertarian :)
Comment by Tundra — May 15, 2006 @ 12:45 pm
I don’t believe anything or anyone is 100% good or bad. Not even Capitalism which would be a really great system IF people were honest…
May 15th, 2006 at 12:49 pmMrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.â€
Actaully they were talking to her staying her course; they like their first ladies Stepford-style: in perpetual frozen smile, with no spine and who get their talking points straight from the hubby a/k/a “Daddy”.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:50 pmMrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.â€
Actually they were telling to her staying her course; they like their first ladies Stepford-style: in perpetual frozen smile, with no spine and who get their talking points straight from the hubby a/k/a “Daddy”.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:51 pmUnbelievable, I think Mark is actually agreeing with you that standardized tests are not good for students. The reality is that NCLB brought them to us.
First, if students and their parents were held accountable for the student not working in class, not doing their homework, not caring about school, then we would not need these tests because the students would meet minimum requirements to succeed in college. Instead the parents and legislatures lay the blame at the feet of the teacher because in their view teachers are not doing enough to help little Johnny learn. I cannot MAKE Johnny do anything because I cannot take away his TV, computer, MP3 player, X-box, Play Station, Gameboy, cell phone, car, and all of the other gadgets that are just so much more fun than learning geometry.
Second, if NCLB were funded properly then I would not have 30 – 35 students in a REGULARS geometry class. There would be more teachers, smaller classes and more individualized assistance.
There is no possible way a teacher with 120 – 150 students can assure each child has the time they deserve to assure an understanding of the material to be taught.
So please, before you claim NCLB to be a failure and therefore the only alternative is to pass out vouchers, tell your “party of responsibility” to take responsibility and fund the program they created to allow it to be a success!!
May 15th, 2006 at 12:52 pm#89
Interesting. So all throughout elementary and high school (and college?), every one of your English teachers taught you that the definition of the word “then” was that it could be:
- Used after a comparative adjective or adverb to introduce the second element or clause of an unequal comparison: She is a better athlete then I.
- Used to introduce the second element after certain words indicating difference: He draws quite differently then she does.
- Used in comparison or contrast with: could run faster then him; outclassed everyone other then her.
Sorry. I don’t buy it. As I said, I see this on countless message boards on the Internet, by individuals from all walks of life. My thoughts? I think it’s pure laziness on the individual’s part. Even when they read other sources, or hear other people speak, and in each example hear the proper use of the word “than,” they still don’t get it.
Same thing here in the South with people using the word “ideal” instead of “idea.” As in:
Question: “Who drank all the milk in the refrigerator?”
Answer: “I have no ideal.”
Call it one of my pet peeves.
May 15th, 2006 at 12:53 pmSounds like you want the private school system, but guranteed spots/funding for every kid.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 12:48 pm
Vouchers are not the way to achieve it (that’s been shown enough above for me to reitterate). Getting an intelligent, reality-based President to appoint an intelligent, reality-based Secretary of Education might be a much better start. But we still face cultural problems. We’ve got to get over our overly litigious nature and accept that people learn from our mistakes. If we can’t make any in the safety of our home or the classroom, then what happens to us when we get out into the real world? Apparently, Prozac Nation is one aspect…
May 15th, 2006 at 12:53 pmUnbelievable,
I think if you want Federal funding for education there has to be oversight (as with anything the Federal Government is involved in). I am not going to sign on to paying federal money to schools and then just letting them do “whatever” “they” feel is best (I don’t trust people that much). Now if we took the Federal government out of it completely and let the counties etc decide what they wanted their kids to know I would be all for it.
The community could decide how much it was worth to them and pay taxes accordingly. The community could also decide on evolution/intelligent design etc and we could keep the feds out of it all. A community could decide on the pledge of allegience.
Once Kennedy’s little NCLB came in it just helped FUBAR things.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:01 pmTundra – if this is Kennedy’s program then why is Bush taking responsibility for what he says is its success?
May 15th, 2006 at 1:13 pm#107 I do think they are a waste of time, especially when the whole school district I live in teaches the tests ahead of time. It doe not matter what the tests are either. WHen I was a kid we took time to learn how to test on the IOWA tests, why should I think things are different today especially when I see with my own eyes that they spend three weeks learning how to take the tests and one week taking them.
Of course I am just an ignorant talking head apparently because I do not teach. I guess we could use that loigic on all subjects, but it would only make us/me look like an ass as most generalizations end up doing.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:14 pm111
if this is Kennedy’s program then why is Bush taking responsibility for what he says is its success?
Because he’s an idiot and not smart enough to throw it back in the face of who designed this piece of trash
May 15th, 2006 at 1:18 pmExpect Congress to pass a shield law (in the middle of the night, no doubt) to protect telecommunication companies from lawsuits over the NSA spying and data mining.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:19 pmMark – I do not think you are a talking head. I just think people need to realize what really goes on inside a classroom. I believe parents need to become more invested in their childs’ eduaction and not leave it to a teacher who sees them an aversge of 5 hours a week to assure they are learning what they need.
Tundra – I think you need to read up on the NCLB act. This was a major part of Bush’s campaign in 2000. Kennedy may be in part responsible for the final written version, but he was not the only one involved. Much of what is in there, including the requirement for testing, is Bush’s.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:24 pm#115
And, as I recall, NCLB was somewhat modeled after a plan used in Texas by Gov. Bush. Can’t recall the details, but I read about it in Molly Ivins’ book “Bushwhacked.”
May 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pmWC – Yes it was modeled after the hell we live through here in Texas. The thing is, much of what is on these tests should be knowledge a child has upon leaving high school (I apologize to all of the science people here, but I think the science exit level test is stupid. They make these incredibly difficult test that most adults could not pass and really, unless you are going to be a doctor or scientist, when would you need to know the make up of various chemicals?).
However, what of the students who do not test well? For the most part, I knew the kids in my classes who would pass TAKS. But some kids are very good guessers and some have performance anxiety. There would always be surprises awaiting me in the middle of May!
May 15th, 2006 at 1:34 pmSo let me see if I understand this:
Don’t teach to the test, instead “Prepare students for life.”
Don’t have a standard for rating, “Leave it up to the schools.”
And remove NCLB and its architects and replace them with “Reality based people”
So basically no real solutions, beyond removing all acountability, and hoping the next batch of deciders are better then the current one.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pmBecause he’s an idiot and not smart enough to throw it back (…)
Comment by Tundra — May 15, 2006 @ 1:18 pm
Then Pres Bush shares equal responsibility since he signed it into law.
Not only that. Pres Bush has called the initiative “cornerstone of my administration”, and has defended it against critics.
Finally, NCLB was not Sen Kennedy’s brainchild. It was originally a bi-partisan initiative by the Bush administration. For a quick conservative perspective, check here. Please note how Utah was the first state to try to toss NCLB out the window.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:38 pmTundra,
I didn’t say there shouldn’t be government oversight. It should just be oversight though – and not the Federal Government telling people HOW to do their job best when 99% of them (Fed. Gov’t) have never been in a classroom as an instructor on any level. See the difference? I think we need a cohesive moderator. And the Federal Government should be that to a limited degree.
NCLB is the same failure as everything Bush has touched. So far not one Bush supporter can name one valid thing he’s done to equate with any of his myriad of bad things. NCLB included.
No “Intelligent Design” with public money it violates separation of church and state (as well as the common sense and logic which we are advocating teaching children :).
May 15th, 2006 at 1:40 pmSpongebob, obviously your english teachers did not teach you how to read either. The final accountability for a students education must rest with the student and their parents. This is the only way ANY educational program will work.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:42 pm(I apologize to all of the science people here, but I think the science exit level test is stupid. They make these incredibly difficult test that most adults could not pass and really, unless you are going to be a doctor or scientist, when would you need to know the make up of various chemicals?).
Comment by Jules — May 15, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
I agree. SpongeBob, read this part. This is what I was telling you earlier. Maybe a math teacher saying it will give it more credibility since you don’t take my word for it.
May 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pmSo basically no real solutions, beyond removing all acountability, and hoping the next batch of deciders are better then the current one.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 1:37 pm
I’m amazed at how lost you get yourself with that fallacious logic of yours.
How does a doctor become a doctor? A lawyer, a laywer? An engineer, an engineer?
Any clearer?
May 15th, 2006 at 1:47 pm#110 tundra sez….”Once Kennedy’s little NCLB came in it just helped FUBAR things.”
just out of curiosity, what exactly does that mean and where did you get it?
May 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pm“The final accountability for a students education must rest with the student and their parents. This is the only way ANY educational program will work.”
Sounds like downwards buckpassing to me.
“I apologize to all of the science people here, but I think the science exit level test is stupid.”
May 15th, 2006 at 1:57 pmI apologize to all the english people here, but I think the english exit level test is stupid. As long as I have spell check(and use it) and a friend willing to grammer check, my papers come out fine.
Or math exit tests? How many professions need algebra, trig, and calc? Really, only basic math/reading comprehension should be taught in schools, the rest is completly up to your profession of choice. Let’s just stop school at 3rd grade, and at that point force students to pick a career path.
Let’s just stop school at 3rd grade, and at that point force students to pick a career path.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
Really, thiswould be so much easier if you would learn logic. Logic. Now see, that would be a valuable skill to teach. And one most people in our society are desperately missing.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:03 pmHow does a doctor become a doctor? A lawyer, a laywer? An engineer, an engineer?
Doctors have the mcats to get into medschool, lawyers have a bar exam. Engineers, depending on the exact path, also have exams to stay certified, sounds like standardized tests to me.
“Really, thiswould be so much easier if you would learn logic.”
May 15th, 2006 at 2:08 pmWe’ve covered this, I know logic, normally I choose not to use it. Esp. in cases where the people I’m arguing against arn’t using it either.
Wrong again Spongebob.
If I have a child I am responsible for assuring that child has what they need to succeed in life. It is the parent and student who are attempting to “pass the buck” by blaming the school system for the lack of education for their child.
I will see a child perhaps 5 hours a week. It is not possible for me to teach them everything they will need to know regarding a subject. They will be required to learn some on their own. If they are having difficulty a parent should assist them.. The parent should also assure they have completed the assisgnments they are required to complete. My child does not turn in a research paper without my having edited it. A teacher has only so many hours in a day and with anywhere from 120 – 150 students, they could not possibly give enough attention to my childs work to assure it is acceptable.
The ability to write is important in any profession. Spell check cannot assist you in writing a proper response to a letter or email, it can only assure you do not spell words that are in the dictionary that program is using are correct.
As for math, you will use more than basic math skills in your lifetime. It amazes me how many people do not realize the amount of algebra they use every day. In addition to learning addition, subtracting, multiplying and dividing, math teaches logic and reasoning skills.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:10 pmFUBAR? If you mean that, it is the military term for projects that meet specifications, but, do not do anything useful of kill more of our troops than of the foe’s. It translates directly to F*cked Up But As Required. A perfect example is the Osprey aircraft. Another would be a hand grenade with a nano-second fuse.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:13 pmopps – meant to writ mis-spell. Failure to edit!!!
For example, I could mean to write our, but instead write hour. Correct spelling, wrong word.
Spongebob, if you have logic skills, you have not used them here.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:14 pmDoctors have the mcats to get into medschool, lawyers have a bar exam. Engineers, depending on the exact path, also have exams to stay certified, sounds like standardized tests to me.
You are thick. They chose a profession and go to college. As a result that makes them eligible for their jobs. After an internship, they become eligible to sit for a certification exam (teachers also do this). At this point they are now considered experts. Same should be true of a teacher. You’re acting as if they let Math majors teach English or Sociology teachers teach Theatre without demostrated expertise in the field. This is incorrect. I could teach Science because I studied so damn much of it in college. I will be teaching Architecture in teh fall because again, I have a degree in it AND experience.
We’ve covered this, I know logic, normally I choose not to use it. Esp. in cases where the people I’m arguing against arn’t using it either.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 2:08 pm
Nonsense. You don’t know logic, because people here are using it and you obviously can’t recognize it. Or reciprocate it.
I think it’s time we started to critique your profession using the same lack of experience and fallacy that you use to critque ours. What exactly do you do? Besides this?
May 15th, 2006 at 2:18 pmand not the Federal Government telling people HOW to do their job best when 99% of them (Fed. Gov’t) have never been in a classroom as an instructor on any level
That goes the same for everything they have their hands in. 99% of them have nothing to do with engineering, but they determine what is the best way to build your house. 99% of them know nothing about nutrition but they determine what must and must not be in your cat’s food. They do have a whole lot of doctors in the education department.
just out of curiosity, what exactly does that mean and where did you get it?
Robert Kennedy Supported testing standards back in 1965. His plan looked a whole lot like NCLB
The final accountability for a students education must rest with the student and their parents.
And if the parents are useless or not interested in helping, the child should be pushed to the wayside and not helped?
FUBAR?
May 15th, 2006 at 2:18 pmF$#@ed up Beyond All Recognition
(Tango and Cash, we didn’t use it your way when I was in)
“They will be required to learn some on their own”
Homework, you assign it.
“The parent should also assure they have completed the assisgnments they are required to complete.”
So where is the kid responable in any of this, or you as the teacher? Sounds like your putting 100% on the parents.
“could not possibly give enough attention to my childs work to assure it is acceptable.”
After their first C/D/F then the kid knows it’s not acceptable and figures out what needs to be done to improve back to an A/B, if they consistently don’t, and end up dropping out of HS or College, Mc. Donalds is always highering, and someone has to flipburgers.
“My child does not turn in a research paper without my having edited it.”
Do you also do their science projects for them? How are they supposed to learn self-reliance if you are constantly correcting their mistakes?
“As for math, you will use more than basic math skills in your lifetime.”
May 15th, 2006 at 2:20 pmI know I do, computer science makes me use a large range of it. But I also use science on a regular basis, and it also teachs problem solving skills.
I just love how reich-wingers pick and choose what they answer.
NCLB is Bush’s plan. Kennedy may have assisted in drafting it, but he did not create the final solution.
I have read many papers regadring the NCLB act. I have never read where Kennedy favors testing. Where did you find that?
May 15th, 2006 at 2:22 pm“You’re acting as if they let Math majors teach English or Sociology teachers teach Theatre without demostrated expertise in the field. This is incorrect.”
Actually NCLB is what stopped this on the national level, before that it was up to individual states to regulate who could teach what.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:25 pm“The 4-year-old No Child Left Behind law says teachers must have a bachelor’s degree, a state license and proven competency in every subject they teach by this year. The first federal order of its kind, it applies to teachers of math, history and any other core class.”
Actually NCLB is what stopped this on the national level
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
Nonsense. Stop reading Newsmax.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:29 pmIt’s from CNN, from the link i posted in #2
May 15th, 2006 at 2:31 pmSpongebob – if you would read entire posts I said the ultimate responsiblity resides with the student and their parent.
I do assign homework. If the child refuses to do it and the parent will not assure this is complete then what?
Bush wanted to bring up the standard of American education and therefore wanted NCLB. Your idea of just allowing them to fall by the wayside would obviously leave a child behind.
I never said I do my child’s work. I said I edit her papers. A person cannot learn without the assistance of someone with greater experience. If there is a project she is working on and it is in an area that I do not know, she seeks help from friends, the internet, teachers, parents of friends. There are many sources out there. A person needs to look for them.
When do you use biology in computer science? Have you ever needed to know how kidney dialysis is done? That was a question on my daughters TAKS test.
Spongebob, as usual you are taking your lack of real life experience and putting your lack of knowledge where it does not belong. Just because you have been IN a classroom does not mean you know how to conduct one.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:34 pm“The 4-year-old No Child Left Behind law says teachers must have a bachelor’s degree, a state license and proven competency in every subject they teach by this year. The first federal order of its kind, it applies to teachers of math, history and any other core class.â€
But Spongebob did you also know that every state has received waivers from this? I bet you didn’t!!!
May 15th, 2006 at 2:36 pmRobert Kennedy Supported testing standards back in 1965. His plan looked a whole lot like NCLB
Comment by Tundra — May 15, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
True as this might be, fact remains the NCLB we all know and (not) love is not Sen Kennedy’s idea, but a Bush administration initiative -read my previous post.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:38 pm134,
I just love how reich-wingers pick and choose what they answer.
Answered it in 132 but that would require reading comprehension :)
I was speaking of the initial idea. Yes Bush had the final part written for him. Yes many Democrats as well as Republicans signed on full fledged to this. If you fee it is best to use it as a Bush slamming point then keep doing it. Ignore the fact that many Democrats were all for it.
http://www.ed.gov/news/speeches/2001/12/20011219.html
Some of us know less about his brother Robert Kennedy’s work on the first Elementary and Secondary Education Act in 1965. Senator Robert Kennedy announced that his support of ESEA would be conditioned upon the addition of a “good faith administration effort to hold educators responsive to their constituencies and to make educational achievement the touchstone of success in judging ESEA.”
He also insisted on adding testing. He said, “I do not think money in and of itself is necessarily the answer. I have seen enough school districts where there has been a lack of imagination, lack of initiative and lack of interest in the problems. . . My feeling is that even if we put money into those school districts, then it will be wasted.”
I do assign homework. If the child refuses to do it and the parent will not assure this is complete then what?
Well the Libertarian answer is well they flip burgers unless they decide to improve themselves. Keep the government out of it.
There are many sources out there. A person needs to look for them.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:41 pmAgreed, but does that mean the government should force it?
Gregor – I have reached the conclusion that right wingers do not read. They also do not research. If it does not come from Rush, O’Riely, or some other neo-con talking head, then it does not exist in their version of reality!
May 15th, 2006 at 2:41 pmIt’s from CNN, from the link i posted in #2
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 2:31 pm
MAybe the artiocle, but not the interpretation of teh article. That’s pure Newsmax mentality.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:43 pmTundra – once again you are failing to read or do any research on this.
NCLB is based on the Texas version enacted by Bush!!! This was a part of Bush’s platform during the 2000 campaign. I am not bashing Bush for NCLB, I am bashing Bush for his and his republican cronies, who control the congress and therefore the budget, for failing to FUND IT!!!!!
May 15th, 2006 at 2:45 pmsquegeeboo,
May 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pmThe largest known prime is 2^30402457-1 and consists of 9152052 digits. Since you are into problem solving, go away and calculate the next highest prime and come back to this blog when you’re done.
Jules,
I cannot tell you how many times, in this very blog, I have posted sources and links to back up a statement I made, only to have them completely ignored by the people I am debating.
Maybe you are right, their reality must be preserved at all cost.
May 15th, 2006 at 2:49 pmUnbelievable”MAybe the artiocle, but not the interpretation of teh article. That’s pure Newsmax mentality.”
The article says it’s the first federal program that forces teachers to have degree’s/comprehension in the area they are teaching (for core subjects), I said “Actually NCLB is what stopped this on the national level, before that it was up to individual states to regulate who could teach what.”
I always thought you guys hated Newsmax, but really, you regard it as speaking the truth(so maybe thats why you hate it)
Jules
“I do assign homework. If the child refuses to do it and the parent will not assure this is complete then what?”
It’s called an F, even if you have to do it in purple ink now.
“Your idea of just allowing them to fall by the wayside would obviously leave a child behind.”
Yes, yes it would, the ones who don’t try and keep up. I always here complaints of limited resources, so until thats fixed, why waste the resources on the ones that don’t want to learn.
“I never said I do my child’s work. I said I edit her papers.”
Is your editing circling her mistakes and having her go fix them, or is it fixing them for her? If it’s the first, then I apologise for my comment, theres nothing wrong with using a resource aviable to her.
“When do you use biology in computer science? Have you ever needed to know how kidney dialysis is done? That was a question on my daughters TAKS test.”
May 15th, 2006 at 2:55 pmI did a project based off of DNA/RNA. Kidney dialysis? can’t say I’ve ever needed that one, just like I’ve never needed to interpret turn of the century poetry/short stories, but they comes up on the NYS regents now and again.
Walt
May 15th, 2006 at 3:05 pmGot a supercomputer I can borrow?
SpongeBob,
Your posting style is proof that you do not value English skills. I wish you could see the irony in that.
You didn’t tell me exactly what you do for a living, so I can give you some career advice.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pm#26 cynical gal, a
May 15th, 2006 at 3:10 pmpparently, the CNN crawl and the note on Raw Story today were incorrect — Rove DID speak at the AEI today.
When Laura and Georgie talk about meeting people around America who support them and cheer them with “stay the course” who are they talking to? People standing with protest signs? Of course, they speak only to pre-screened Bushites who are allowed to touch the hem of their royal robes. What does she think they are going to tell her? So it is disingenuous for her to say people tell her of their support, etc.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:13 pm“Your posting style is proof that you do not value English skills. I wish you could see the irony in that.”
I don’t value english skills.
I’m a computer programmer, currently doing web dev.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:21 pmSpongebob, if you are willing to leave children behind then you should not blame the teacher for this. I am tired of parents laying the blame at my feet when their children fail and they will not become involved. I will work my ass off to help a child learn, but it is not possible for me to work harder then they do. I can not possibly care more about their education then they or their parents do.
Look, obviously we need people to work at wal-mart and flip burgers. Like it or not, not everyone has the ABILITY to go to college or even a trade school. However, why make it difficult or impossible for those that do? If we are going to have NCLB then FUND IT. Reduce the class sizes so the kids can have more one-on-one teacher interaction. If we do this, maybe even one child that would currently fall by the wayside will be caught and will move on to something bigger and better.
Isn’t that why NCLB was enacted?
May 15th, 2006 at 3:23 pmTundra – once again you are failing to read or do any research on this.
NCLB is based on the Texas version enacted by Bush!!! This was a part of Bush’s platform during the 2000 campaign. I am not bashing Bush for NCLB, I am bashing Bush for his and his republican cronies, who control the congress and therefore the budget, for failing to FUND IT!!!!!
Comment by Jules — May 15, 2006 @ 2:45 pm
The argument that was listed before was how bad standardised tests were, how bad the government who has spent no time in a classroom are deciding how teachers teach. Another argument was that none of it taught reality. I was not aware that your argument was that it was not funded properly. Based on the other posts on this thread (that I was going off of) the complaints were all about the NCLB itself. I will go back up and look for where you mentioned funding as the real problem with it.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:23 pmI have reached the conclusion that right wingers do not read. They also do not research.
Perhaps if your argument were clear, I can’t find that argument in anything else you said. I could be ignorant not to realize that is what the rest of your posts meant. Of course it could be your failure to state it.
I am bashing Bush for his and his republican cronies, who control the congress and therefore the budget, for failing to FUND IT!!!!!
May 15th, 2006 at 3:28 pmI don’t value english skills.
I can tell. You should. Ever hear the saying that if it looks good it is assumed to be good? That’s a real world skill many students (youare a student) seem to be unwilling to learn.
I’m a computer programmer, currently doing web dev.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
Without a college degree?
May 15th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#153
“Spongebob, if you are willing to leave children behind then you should not blame the teacher for this.”
It depends on the situation, if it’s a student who is coming to you for help and you constantly ignore them(not you you, but you a teacher) then I would blame the teacher, or if the teacher was just a bad teacher overall like my 11th grade chemistry teacher who couldn’t even get valence levels or the amount of columns in the periodic table correct, then I would blame the teacher.
Otherwise I agree with your rant.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:29 pmUnbelievable
‘Without a college degree?’
I’ll have one in about 2 weeks.
“Ever hear the saying that if it looks good it is assumed to be good?”
May 15th, 2006 at 3:32 pmYes I have, but like I’ve said before, I’m arguing on the interwebs, so I’m already retarded, why move my language skills above that level.
if you are willing to leave children behind then you should not blame the teacher for this. I am tired of parents laying the blame at my feet when their children fail and they will not become involved.
Comment by Jules — May 15, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
SpongeBob wants to hold the wrong person accountable. Because that’s just working so well…
Keep alluding reality. It’ll bite you hard when it catches up. You can quote me on that one.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:33 pmAddition:
I was thinking about the corporate executives that give money and gifts – use of the corporate jets, goft vacations, etc., – to our representatives. Aren’t they effectively stealing from the shareholders? That money representatives are taking and those corporate resources our representatives are using, belong to us, either for running the corporation and improvements or dividends. So one could say, when Tom Delay rides on a corporate jet, he is stealing money from the corporation and our own pockets.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:41 pmTundra – please review posts number:
107
115
117
121
128
153
I do not attack the underlying reasoning for the need for the NCLB act. The level of students ability in math when they reach college is so poor, at least here in Texas, that the community colleges now have five levels of remedial math prior to allowing a student to take college algebra. How many of these classes a student must take depends on where the student tests on the entry level tests. That is very unsettling to me/
I believe the focus has been placed incorrectly on what teachers and schools are doing/not doing, and not on what students, their parents, the state and federal governments, etc. are doing/not doing. Don’t get me wrong, there are poor teaxhers and poor schools out there, but I do not believe there are as many as Americans are led to believe.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:42 pm“That money representatives are taking and those corporate resources our representatives are using, belong to us, either for running the corporation and improvements or dividends”
Not at all, its a business expense used to help the business, just like how potential clients are taken to a nice restaurant as opposed to Friendly’s. By spending 20k on perks for a representative, he can save you hundreds of thousands if not more through looser regulations, or make you hundreds of thousands through gov’t contracts.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:44 pmHow said is it that I mis-spelled teachers?
May 15th, 2006 at 3:45 pmOK, how sad is it that I mis-spelled sad?
May 15th, 2006 at 3:47 pm“I believe the focus has been placed incorrectly on what teachers and schools are doing/not doing, and not on what students, their parents, the state and federal governments, etc. are doing/not doing.”
But how do you shift the focus to the parents? I’m thinking if you can fix them, they can fix their kids, give them a tax writeoff for every A their kid earns?
May 15th, 2006 at 3:49 pm#148 – squegeeboo,
May 15th, 2006 at 3:51 pmYou do not need a supercomputer, you can apply your programming skills to set up an equivalent of the SETI internet project and fish for volunteers. That alone would keep you busy for a few hours (or with your programming prowess, minutes or even seconds).
Jules
We’ll just pretend 163/164 are a joke you took to far, maybe even to mock my poor wordsmithing, and that way it all works out.
May 15th, 2006 at 3:52 pmJules it is just a sad day for America…with Bush in power and the lack of interest of him in actually solving any problems…just photo ops and staged events,
That is why they do not fund NCLB..it was supposed to be a staged signing event so Bush could say he cared and was working on the problem…….
May 15th, 2006 at 3:52 pm“You do not need a supercomputer, you can apply your programming skills to set up an equivalent of the SETI internet project and fish for volunteers. That alone would keep you busy for a few hours (or with your programming prowess, minutes or even seconds).”
So Walt, I can count your computer in? And I’m gonna take that last bit as a compliment, even though something tells me it’s dripping in sarcasm :)
May 15th, 2006 at 3:54 pmSpongebob (I wish you would change you name, I really like spongebob, and I can spell it)
I do not know the answer to that one (surprised you didn’t I?)
I think it might begin if the state legislatures would stop being such a**wipes and pandering for the votes. They tell parents it is the schools and teachers fault their kids are not learning. So many of these parents are unwilling to take the time and energy to assure their children are doing what they are supposed to be doing they feel relieved they have someone else to blame. What better way to clear you conscience?
I really do not understand why a person would have a child and then abandon the responsiblity for that child. I do not want my child to only learn what the schools teach her. There are so many other things she needs to learn. Whatever happend to personal responsibility?
May 15th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#171 is referring to #165.
Spongebob, I was not making fun of you or your spelling mishaps. I have not said one word on any thread about your grammer. My husband is a programmer and he could not spell to save his life, however, he can fix any issues I have with a computer! I am making fun of myself.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:05 pmBut how do you shift the focus to the parents? I’m thinking if you can fix them, they can fix their kids, give them a tax writeoff for every A their kid earns?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 3:49 pm
Good luck changing a culture… I would say become a teacher to make a difference, except that I’m happy you’re doing something else right now while your brain finishes developing.
One thought is to hold parents accountable for their child’s actions. Kid breaks a law, the parents do the time sort of ideology. Maybe a bit extreme, but I like the notiion to some extent that the parents have no one to blame but themselves and their child. Maybe then. But even so, I still think organized religion has a large hand in teaching people to blame the devil so they don’t get punished for being ‘bad’. See that connection to our culture there? It’s pretty strong too.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:05 pmI really do not understand why a person would have a child and then abandon the responsiblity for that child.
Comment by Jules — May 15, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
Studies indicate that it stems from patriarchial societies where women are not views as equals to men (therefore responsible for their own reproductive systems).
Countries with equality between the sexes actually have better standards of living and fewer unwanted pregnancies. Sweden, Norway, Germany, Canada, Austria, and Spain are prime examples.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:09 pm“One thought is to hold parents accountable for their child’s actions. Kid breaks a law, the parents do the time sort of ideology.”
But for school work? Is it if the kid gets a D? Because then the parent will just do it to not get in trouble, if its if the kid just not doing it, then the kid can always hold it over the parents head. Chucky Cheese tonight, or I forget all about my 2 page paper on Magellan (He was hit by a spear, all you really need to know)
May 15th, 2006 at 4:22 pmIt could also be a scare the kid straight kind of approach, if your grades are below X, you spend a week doing some horrible job or anouther, this would have to be after making it illegal to sue the schools for making your precious littly bobby do highway clean up due to the harm to his delicate ego, of course.
#175…..” just do it to not get in trouble, if its if the kid just not doing it, then the kid can always hold it over the parents head.”
where would they learn that?…..oh, that’s right, from their parents
May 15th, 2006 at 4:37 pmIs unemployment really at 12%?, Real CPI 8%?, and other funny government numbers., in “Economist Keeps Tabs On Government’s “Creative” Statistical Reports”, interview with John Williams.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:38 pm“One thought is to hold parents accountable for their child’s actions. Kid breaks a law, the parents do the time sort of ideology.â€
But for school work?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 4:22 pm
I bet you a whole dollar that most parents CAN’T do their kids school work for them. Most don’t have the time,and the rest have alrteady forgitten what they had to memorize to pass their standardized tests. Stop making assinine ‘what if’ scenarios that don’t hold water.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:50 pm“I bet you a whole dollar that most parents”
Oh man, I’d be rich if I could win it. You don’t think parents doing time for their kids not doing school work is assinine?
May 15th, 2006 at 4:52 pmSqueegy head in about 5-10 years when you have kids starting school this discussion would be interesting to have with you but for now all you talk about is your thoughts with no personnal expierence to back it up, having one daughter already graduated, and another about to finish the fourth grade you do not know what your talking about….just speculating with an ideological bent but no personnal expierence, because ytou are not a parent, would like to see how your views change in about 5-10 years though.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:58 pm“but for now all you talk about is your thoughts with no personnal expierence to back it up”
I’d say I’m prob the one closest to having gone thru public school and required standardized tests, which gives me a valid perspective to bring to the table.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:02 pmYou don’t think parents doing time for their kids not doing school work is assinine?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 4:52 pm
I said consequences for their kid breaking the law. Sheesh…
May 15th, 2006 at 5:02 pmwhich gives me a valid perspective to bring to the table.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:02 pm
Just because you rode the rides at Disneyland, it does not qualify you to run the park.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:04 pmYou said, and I qoute “One thought is to hold parents accountable for their child’s actions. Kid breaks a law, the parents do the time sort of ideology. Maybe a bit extreme”
I seem to see law, and time in there :) So if you don’t mind, we can move on past that, and I’ll stop twisting your meaning.
“Just because you rode the rides at Disneyland, it does not qualify you to run the park.”
May 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pmAnd being the person managing just one ride dosn’t qualify you to run the park either, but in both cases it does give you insite into the parks workings.
which gives me a valid perspective to bring to the table.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:02 pm
I am talking about the prespective of being a parent, something you have NO prespective at all, just like a post teen knows it all even that which he has never done, seems to be rampant in his case as much he posts about not actually having been there done that hisself
May 15th, 2006 at 5:11 pmActually, I agree with Spongebob. Kids would hold it over their parents heads if the parents would get in trouble. Of course, they did learn this from their parents, but regardless, they would do it.
I also agree there should be some greater “punishment” for the kids who refuse to do there work. As a teacher I KNOW that 9 times out of 10 it is because they are lazy, not because they cannot do it.
In Texas, if you do not go to school you get truancy. Generally, you receive a fine or community service. If you do not pay or do community service they lock you up for a couple of days. There are kids who are willing to go to juvy for a few days rather than pay a fine or do community service. So, somehow I do not believe threatening them with cleaning the highway will work.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:13 pmAnd being the person managing just one ride dosn’t qualify you to run the park either, but in both cases it does give you insite into the parks workings.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:09 pm
I’m more like the manager from Six Flags managing 4 rides. I don’t come to the table without prior business experience (managed projects for public school districts in California, working directly with Adminstrators).
May 15th, 2006 at 5:15 pmSG telling me to shup the hell up doesn’t work any better than you feeble attempts to thunk it….
May 15th, 2006 at 5:20 pmActually, I agree with Spongebob. Kids would hold it over their parents heads if the parents would get in trouble. Of course, they did learn this from their parents, but regardless, they would do it.
Comment by Jules — May 15, 2006 @ 5:13 pm
It would be ancillary to the kid’s punishment, so they’d be in it together.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:21 pm“Actually we’re having a conversation and you’re trying to interrupt. You really are obnoxious. Shoo.”
Don’t acknowledge him, otherwise he’ll never get bored and go away, you should have learned that lesson with me.
“I’m more like the manager from Six Flags managing 4 rides. I don’t come to the table without prior business experience (managed projects for public school districts in California, working directly with Adminstrators).”
Why, why, why must you always have an ace up your sleeve? I’m going to start making up ridicolous claims, just so it seems like I’m on the same footing.
“I am talking about the prespective of being a parent, something you have NO prespective at all”
May 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pmClif, I’m going to assume your a good parent who is involved in your kids live’s, so you would also have no personal perspective on the type of parent that would allow their kids to slack off on school work rather then help/force them to achieve their potential.
OK, let’s get this over with – no you cannot sue the press you moron because they have OWNERS. They can write whatever the hell they please you freakin idiot. There are no LAWS like with thne telecoms restricting what they can and cannot do. Are you always this stupid?
Spongebob, correct me if I am wrong but you seem to have recognized that there is a bigger issue here that cannot be dealt with easily. You also seemed to have realized that the issue is not with the schools and teachers alone, but society. I find that to be a great improvement in this debate and am proud of you.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:25 pmDon’t acknowledge him, otherwise he’ll never get bored and go away, you should have learned that lesson with me.
Like that was working? (Oh, it’s a her actually. If you care).
Why, why, why must you always have an ace up your sleeve? I’m going to start making up ridicolous claims, just so it seems like I’m on the same footing.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:24 pm
You’re 17 years younger than me. Noone expects you to be on the same footing with me. Plus, I try to think my words through before I write them (from having been a debater).
May 15th, 2006 at 5:30 pm#202 Jules
Yep, I know their is a much bigger issue with society, but I don’t see an actual viable way to fix it, so for now I’m just looking for ways to put the little dutch boy’s finger in the hole in the dyke.
Basically I got a few I support:
1. Lower the drop out age, let those kids that don’t want to learn get out of the system, and stop wasting resources for those who do want to, and maybe the ‘real world’ will scare them back into school.
2. Standardized testing, even if it ends up being taught to the test, it forces some level of standards.
3. Vouchers, let those kids who want to learn, and have parents who are active in their lives move them out of their school and into a private school where the education is better (assuming the private school by them is better then the public school)
4. Drop Co-Ed classes, from the studies I’ve seen, it tends to improve performance a bit.
5. A stricter punishment system in the school system, maybe even back to rulers over the knuckles (I think this one is the least viable, due to the lawsuits it could open up)
I’m assuming most of you all would be against these though.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:34 pm1. Lower the drop out age, let those kids that don’t want to learn get out of the system, and stop wasting resources for those who do want to, and maybe the ‘real world’ will scare them back into school.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:34 pm
The three of us discussed this before. I’ve since discussed it with some veteran Special Ed teachers. Not a bad idea. You can teach people appreciation by changing the circumstanes.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:38 pmClif, I’m going to assume your a good parent who is involved in your kids live’s, so you would also have no personal perspective on the type of parent that would allow their kids to slack off on school work rather then help/force them to achieve their potential.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:24 pm
Squeegy head, I have neighbors, and only have to look at the teachers time out board routinely to see which students have reecurring problems to know which parents probably not up to par with aiding their cjhildren in their school work, plus the extra curicular activities when I get to meet some of the poarents………life has a way of getting you to a reality based existence, which college is not, having spent the better part of 9 years there getting my BA, MA and MFA.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:40 pm[...] Think Progress [...]
May 15th, 2006 at 5:42 pmI’m assuming most of you all would be against these though.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:34 pm
You know that private schools pay less than public schools right?
May 15th, 2006 at 5:42 pmClif
“Squeegy head, I have neighbors, and only have to look at the teachers time out board routinely to see which students have reecurring problems to know which parents probably not up to par with aiding their cjhildren in their school work, plus the extra curicular activities when I get to meet some of the poarents”
And some how I’ve never had any of those experiences? I don’t have neighbors? I don’t know which kids were the horrible kids, or the ones who just couldn’t do their work? I sat in the same class as them. I got to meet all sorts of wonderful parents thru activities like scouts, I also got to meet all sorts of dead-beat parents through the same activities.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:46 pmSHOULD WE SUE THE “FREE MEDIA†AND THE “FREE PRESS†FOR GIVING AWAY OUR FREEDOM!!!!!…
OK, I’ll bite.
Can we?
Ummm sure you can sue anyone for anything, I think it would get tossed out quicker than you can bat an eye though.
Should we?
Ummmmm No, we have Freedom of the Press here as has been won time and time again. We also have freedom of speech. If someone is stupid enough to give information to the press, they will use it in anyway they see fit. Does that make it right? nope, but it is their right. If we started suing we would be responsible for trying to get rid of our own freedoms (Sort of a catch 22 huh).
You also seemed to have realized that the issue is not with the schools and teachers alone, but society
Even though you are dealing with Squegee on this one. Sure it is a society problem, but there is no fix without taking away your right to privacy. Finding someway to sue parents for not helping their kids is darn near impossible. I’m not prepared to slam the single mother/father that works lowend jobs just to pay for a place to stay and keep food on the table because JR doesn’t do his homework. Especially if they have 2 kids that are doing real well and a third that doesn’t care or try.
I don’t think the government is the answer here (Shocking coming from me I know). Neighbors have to get together and help, study groups, vet/social clubs etc. Offer a free tutorting class at your neighborhood rec center. Have a neighbor better at computers do one too. Have a mechanic explain internal combustion engines on weekends. If you ask the government to do it they are going to require the mechanic to have a BS in education as opposed to knowing how to do it.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:47 pmI am against corporal punishment and do not like the voucher system as it would lead to the public funding wealthy kids schooling and poorer kids would remain in public schools with littles funding.
I like lowering the dropout age, but how about having a trade school “track” and a business/worker “track.” This does not mean these kids would not or could not go to college someday, but maybe it could get them through high school.
I think not having co-ed classes for math and science is a great idea.
See, don’t ever assume progressives do not hav open minds!!
May 15th, 2006 at 5:47 pm“You know that private schools pay less than public schools right?”
I’ve heard thats generally the case, I’ve also met a few teachers who said they left public to go to private even with the lower pay because the kids tended to be more serious and the environment/materials were better.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:48 pmI’ve heard thats generally the case, I’ve also met a few teachers who said they left public to go to private even with the lower pay because the kids tended to be more serious and the environment/materials were better.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:48 pm
There are always those stories. Bur doesn’t it contradict your capitialistic beliefs?
One other thing for your list is smaller class size.
(cat lying under key board is making typing even worse than normal…)
May 15th, 2006 at 5:54 pm“but how about having a trade school “track†and a business/worker “track.†”
New York does this already. We have a boces program. Part of it is dealing with the special ed kids, the other part is a vocational training sytem, where for 1/2-1/3 of your school day you work with a chef, or a mechanic, or etc. etc. Or maybe its just called votec, and boces is just for special ed, I don’t remeber but you get the point, it’s there, and it helps out a good portion of the kids who would just drop out because they can’t hack it at math or history or what not.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:54 pmAnd some how I’ve never had any of those experiences? I don’t have neighbors? I don’t know which kids were the horrible kids, or the ones who just couldn’t do their work? I sat in the same class as them. I got to meet all sorts of wonderful parents thru activities like scouts, I also got to meet all sorts of dead-beat parents through the same activities.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 5:46 pm
NOT AS A PARENT either looking at your childrens progress, or asking a teacher what are the problems they face, while in college I taught basic drawing and basic design so I have a weebit more expierence actually teaching and a hell of alot more expierence as a patent….when you get some talk about it but till then claim all the expierence by osmosis you can
May 15th, 2006 at 5:57 pmI think not having co-ed classes for math and science is a great idea.
Comment by Jules — May 15, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
I don’t think there are any girls in my architecture classes in the fall. I expect, at a high school level, to have better behaviour. Have you ever tried seating them apart? I know a Biology teacher who puts girls up front and boys in back and has far fewer issues.
In middle school, it’s generally the opposite. Seatingt most of them boy, girl, boy focuses them.
May 15th, 2006 at 5:59 pmI took standardized tests in the forties and fifties. In December 1957, I took the National Science test. The next semester, as a HS junior, was at SMU for advanced science and mathematics. Time was split between HS and college, but I had 30 college credits before I entered college. The reason that this all happened is because this nation got a kick in the ass when Sputnik became a fact. Perhaps the PRC can start a moon base and give the momentum to restart the technology engine that got us to where we were on January 20th, 2001.
May 15th, 2006 at 6:00 pm“One other thing for your list is smaller class size. ”
Thats a good one, but it’s prob. the most expensive of the options.
“There are always those stories. Bur doesn’t it contradict your capitialistic beliefs?
May 15th, 2006 at 6:02 pmThat it does, but teachers are always the exception to the rule when it comes to capitalism, ‘caring’ and etc. getting in the way of profit.
alright everybody, I’m out for the night, enjoy.
May 15th, 2006 at 6:06 pmThats a good one, but it’s prob. the most expensive of the options.
But, I think, one of the key ones. It’s a major selling point for a lot of private schools. 1:12 is exponentially different than 1:32
That it does, but teachers are always the exception to the rule when it comes to capitalism, ‘caring’ and etc. getting in the way of profit.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 15, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
Since when did you allow ‘exceptions’? :)
Okay, gotta run. Critters to feed. Myself included :) ‘Later guys!
May 15th, 2006 at 6:06 pmPEOPLE… lets try this. please dont respond to MA’s phsycho babble okay? a few of us have decided if you dont respond she will go away eventually. she just wants attention be it negative or vitriolic so lets just ignore what her and IRI say. The minds are 1 can short of a six pack anyway! For honest discourse with a moderate or conservative i’d pick Tundra. even tempered and willing to take points without spewing crap!
May 15th, 2006 at 6:16 pmThis is a test, really leaving now. Nite All
May 15th, 2006 at 6:20 pm[...] From ThinkProgress: “I don’t really believe those polls.†– First Lady Laura Bush, on her husband’s sinking approval ratings. Mrs. Bush added “As I travel around the United States…A lot of people come up to me and say, ‘Stay the course’.†[...]
May 15th, 2006 at 6:32 pm232,
Thank you Mmg_mac I try, I typically agree with the premise of alot of topics, but disagree with a proposed solution or “reason” for the problem listed. It seems in general Progressives have an interest in “helping everyone” (not that there is anything wrong with that) I more have a “Help smaller groups” because it’s easier for me to chew on. Sometimes I feel that it’s too much and we need to back off some, but it’s a difference of opinion and insulting each other over something such as politics seems counter productive. I don’t expect people to often agree, and I don’t alot, but as long as we each get to “think of another view” it goes a long way.
I’ll pull out a movie analogy here just cause (Kinda corny but it gets the point):
“The Core”
Maj. Rebecca Childs: Serge died so we could complete our job.
May 15th, 2006 at 6:53 pmDr. Josh Keyes: [sarcastically] Oh, that’s right, the job of saving the world
Maj. Rebecca Childs: Not the whole world Josh! Just three of them.
238 was mine, Squegeeboo used my comp before he headed home
It was the test (233)
Sorry
May 15th, 2006 at 7:01 pmBush to Send Up to 6,000 Guard Troops to Border
WASHINGTON, May 15 — President Bush said tonight that he would send up to 6,000 National Guard troops to the Mexican border to help bolster security and crack down on illegal immigration.
The president added, “Tonight, I am calling on Congress to provide funding for dramatic improvements in manpower and technology at the border.”
Mr. Bush is seeking $1.9 billion from Congress that would be used in part to compensate the states for the costs of deploying the National Guard troops, who would be assigned to support duties under the Border Patrol for about a year.
“The Guard will assist the Border Patrol by operating surveillance systems, analyzing intelligence, installing fences and vehicle barriers, building patrol roads and providing training,” Mr. Bush said. “Guard units will not be involved in direct law enforcement activities — that duty will be done by the Border Patrol.”
The president also called for the hiring of 6,000 additional border patrol agents by the end of 2008, increasing the force by 50 percent from its current 12,000.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/washington/15cnd-bush.html?ex=1148356800&en=5dd16b7e15f85fea&ei=5009&partner=MSN_NYTHOME
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/
washington/15cnd-bush.html?ex=
1148356800&en=5dd16b7e15f85fea&ei=
5009&partner=MSN_NYTHOME
Bush wants to add 1.9 billion for agents after he cut about 3 billion for the 2000 he did not fund in 2005.
He wants 6000 new agents after he failed to fund the 9,790 he scrapped in 2005,
isn’t there a term about somebody who keeps changing their views and actions, seems somebody in the 2004 election coined a term for this kind of political staging for the puyblic their actions and policy views, maybe John Kerry would know what it was,
OH yes …BUSH IS A FLIP_FLOPPER
BUSH IS A FLIP_FLOPPER
BUSH IS A FLIP_FLOPPER
BUSH IS A FLIP_FLOPPER
BUSH IS A FLIP_FLOPPER,
but it isn’t flip flopping if he really does not mean it does it?
May 15th, 2006 at 9:21 pmFUBAR- F*ck*d up beyond all repair. I worked for NASA. Next , stupid posts on LNCB. The @#$!%& Damn Federal government has no business in local/state school districts. Some how prior to this dumb ass law the United States produced one of the most educated and productive work forces in history. The whole point of this is to break up the teachers union. The retards have fallen for the right wing kool aide again!!! Damn it , and you are all talking about it. When people are polled they in a large majority say their school district is great. Do you get it? Or was then or than??
May 15th, 2006 at 9:38 pmFUBAR has several translations. It depends on your origins. The first two words deliver the meaning, the next three deliver the meaning in context. My father worked in the defense business. I learned his nomenclature before the service and it stuck.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:35 pmActually, they considered “losing” instant fused grenades during the Korean war on a limited basis but dismissed the idea as too risky to friendlies.
There has been quite a discussion regarding public schools today.
I have spent this past year teaching the subject of Social Studies to 8th grade hispanic children. The 8th grade test covers material from the 6th, 7th and 8th grade. I put my students through an intensive 5 week review of all three years.
Teaching critical thinking skills will not enable children to do well on the NCLB Social Studies tests. The tests called for factiods. The factoids had a cultural bias. There were several questions that children from a Jewish household would know from their religious teachings. There were several questions about one emperor in China (out of many mentioned in the texts), and the emperor in the tests was not one I would have deemed the most influential.
The NCLB test covered some 80 factoids gleaned from about 600 pages of texts instructed over a 3 year period to 11 – 13 year-old children.
Imagine studying History for 3 years of college, then taking a similar test as part of your third year of study. Would you think it a reliable measure of your studies? Would you think it a reliable measure of your professors’ ability to teach? Extrapolate that to every subject the college offers: would the students’ results be a reliable measure of that college? Remember, the measure for success is to have all students in the upper 30th percentile.
Take it a step further: the college must take all applicants, even the ones who would not normally meet the academic criterion for admission. These students must also test in the upper 30th percentile, or the college will be deemed a failure.
Under this regime, test scores will improve. Children will memorize factoids. But there is no time to teach children how to think. Real analytical skills will disappear. And success for any school is a statistical impossibility.
May 15th, 2006 at 10:46 pm#244 – Briseadh na Faire,
May 16th, 2006 at 12:30 amThe ability to think does not come from education. It comes from genetics and nourishment. Diversity is the key in genetics. Healthy foods, primarily cerial grains and green vegetables provide the first and second tiers of the tripod. Unfortunately, animal tissue provides the third leg because we as humans have evolved to the point where vegetables do not provide all of the protiens that we need to survive. Eggs and milk offer a close subsitute, but if you wish to live to your 90’s, you must eat meat.
The ability to think does not come from education.
Comment by WaltTheMan — May 16, 2006 @ 12:30 am
I wholly disagree. Children are taught critical thinking skills by their parents. Psychology has shown how nurture is more critical to ‘intelligence’ than nature. When I have time, I’d be happy to post some sources.
As a vegan, I am far healthier than my meat eating friends. Only two of the 9 essential amino acids the body cannot produce are largely found in meat. They are found in non-meat sources in lesser quantities. So, it is possible to take supplements to correct this deficiency. They are merely concentrations of the vegetable products.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:45 amDamn it , and you are all talking about it. When people are polled they in a large majority say their school district is great. Do you get it? Or was then or than??
Comment by Joefriday — May 15, 2006 @ 9:38 pm
Of course we talk about it. How else to you convey ideas and communicate with those who are unaware of it?
We have to talk about it.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:47 am“As a vegan, I am far healthier than my meat eating friends. ”
Yes, but your meat eating freinds are prob. how I was about 3 weeks ago, meats cheeses and grains, basically no fruits or vegtables.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:50 am(Since then I’ve added in fruit, hopefully veggies in a few weeks)
Yes, but your meat eating freinds are prob. how I was about 3 weeks ago, meats cheeses and grains, basically no fruits or vegtables.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 16, 2006 @ 8:50 am
Nope. They are omnivores.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:05 amunbelievable,
May 16th, 2006 at 9:32 amI disagree. I am from a family where paternal triplets were born. They did not share the exact same gene set as they were not identical. Each had a different rational threshold. Because of our circumstances, I was also introduced to other multiple birth families and observed the same phenomenon in non-identical triplets and twins. In every case, the children were raised under identical conditions (I can be sure about this for my family and believe it was so in the others,)
(I can be sure about this for my family and believe it was so in the others,)
Comment by WaltTheMan — May 16, 2006 @ 9:32 am
That’s one isolated incident. It doesn’t define all others.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:38 amWalt,
if we accept the nature v. nurture argument, that nature defines and delimits our capacities, then we undermine the very premise of No Child Left Behind, which mandates that every child reaches the Proficient plateau, regardless of nature.
Again, No Child Left Behind really means No School Will Succeed.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:48 amunbelievable,
May 16th, 2006 at 9:48 amThere were about 30 families in the support group.
Walt,
You can assume the conditions were identical, but I would be the ranch that they were not. Your study is an isolated study out of all studies done. There have been decades of research with thousands of children. I tend to give them more validity. Sorry. I know you know a lot about a lot of things, but my personal preoccupation with psychology disagrees with your post.
There’s also a variable in which the eldest tends to have the highest I.Q., and that subsequent children have decreasing I.Q.s. The premise is that the first born child has the attention of two parents, where as subsequent children have divided input. In my family this held true. I have the highest I.Q., second brother has the seconf highest and youngest has the lowest. If it were nature, all three of us would have similar I.Q.’s and would not be typical of the study – but rather an anomoly.
Most psychologists tend to beliefe it is nurture that sets intelligence and not nature – although there are always exceptions. And there are certainly things that can occur (such as dietary deficiencies) to affect it. But generally – intelligence occurs during the first 5-6 years of life when the child’s brain is still devoloping (we are born before our brains fully develop so that we can be born because they have evolved beyond the birth canal), and critical thinking is introduced – in varying degrees of course.
A child whose parents do and tell the child everything are establishing no critical thinking patterns in behavior. Parents who gradually allow their children to think for themselves are setting an excellent foundation. My mother was the latter, and I am significantly smarter than she is. She was not raised the way she raised me, and my afther worked nights so he was not much of an influence. Had it been genetic, then I could not be smarter than she is. She raised me to be a critical thinker.
May 16th, 2006 at 11:09 amunbelievable,
May 16th, 2006 at 11:50 amYou got half of your neurological mix from your mother and half from your father. There is no reason that your intellect should exactly match either parent. In this case, God throws the dice when thousands of sperm pursue a single egg. There is a 53% probability that you could have been born male. How rapidly the neurons interconnect and how frequently they connect is a matter of the luck of the draw. That’s the reason for Mozart. In most cases the brain peaks at puberty.
Walt,
I don’t believe in god(s), just nature. Genetics says dominant genes rule (why I have brown eyes like my father and not blue like my mother). So, if intellect were purley genetic, I would have gotten one or the other. I’m also much smarter than my father was. By your premise, this is NOT possible. And I see this with many students whose parents came form impoverish beginnings, but want more for their child – so the child is smarter than both parents.
Mozart couldn’t be Mozart then if it is genetic…
May 16th, 2006 at 12:17 pmunbelievable,
May 16th, 2006 at 12:54 pmYour father carried genes from countless earlier generations. The same would be true of your mother. The exact mix that you inherit is bound by the laws of chance. When I said “God throws the dice” I was backward referencing Einstein’s abhorrence of quantum mechanics and Schroeder’s cat (“God does not throw dice.â€). He was also an agnostic.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/16/math.science.girls.ap/index.html
Why do girls lose interest in math and science?
WASHINGTON (AP) — Low participation in math and science activities by girls is keeping them from achieving their full potential and weakening the nation’s ability to compete, Education Secretary Margaret Spellings said Monday.
“We need definitive insights into what goes wrong, when and why,” Spellings said. She asked her department’s Institute of Education Sciences to review existing research and determine why girls are not as well represented in the sciences as boys.
Schools have put more emphasis on math in the past five years because of the No Child Left Behind law, which requires testing and yearly progress in the subject.
“This is all about global competitiveness,” Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, said at conference sponsored by the Education Department and the National Science Foundation. “We cannot do what we need to do to create high-skill, high-wage jobs for our country if we write off the prospects of half our population.”
Government data show that girls fall behind boys in math and science as they progress through school. In the fourth grade, 68 percent of boys and 66 percent of girls say they like science, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.
But only one-third of high school students enrolled in Advanced Placement physics classes are girls, Spellings told summit attendees. At the college level, she continued, fewer than one-fifth of engineering majors are women.
Former astronaut Sally Ride suggested several strategies for keeping girls interested in math and science, including involving them in after-school or summer programs. She also recommended introducing girls to women scientists.
“Allow them to put a female face on these careers,” she said.
Ride emphasized the importance of involving parents and preventing perpetuating stereotypes that girls are not good at math or science.
Spellings said mothers can inadvertently send signals to their daughters that math skills are not important. Educators must change the culture so it is not acceptable for women to brag about not being able to balance their checkbooks, she said.
A National Mathematics Advisory Panel created by Bush last month is scheduled to issue an initial report on how to improve math teaching by the end of next January and a final report a month later.
May 16th, 2006 at 12:59 pmWalt,
I studied Genetics in college for a semester. At some point, recessive genes fall out of the family tree, while dominant ones remain (unless there is incest like with hemophelia in British history). I would imagine that any genetics associated with intelligence would be dominant and not recessive as it advances the species. So, by that awareness, if both of my parents were of average intellect – I could not be of high intellect. Just doesn’t make sense to me that intelligence is largely genetic. I have to continue to disagree with you.
I’m sure there are genetic attributes. But ultimately, it is about nurture.
May 16th, 2006 at 1:05 pmunbelievable,
May 16th, 2006 at 1:14 pmSo if I nurture a gerbil in the correct fashion, I can create a new Gauss or Newton?
Walt,
Don’t act like Giacomo and turn something I said into something I never meant just because I don’t agree with you. I thought you were beyond that kind of approach.
Of ocurse there are physical limitations of the brain capacity. I never said there weren’t… Or thought I had to.
We just don’t agree,and there’s really no hard core proof in genetics to validate or invalidate your claim. I’m going by the professional expertise of the psyhologists I know and have read. That within the capacity of human intelligence, a normal functioning brain is nurtured to success. That, essentially, intelligence is a learned trait.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:02 pmI’ll state my opinion in another way. Knowledge is an acquired trait, intelligence is an inherited trait that may or may not be cultivated. MBAs and historians acquire knowledge, the intelligent create it. It’s like the difference between trying to conquer Pike’s Peak in a Harley as opposed to a moped. Both would do equally well in quicksand, but the Harley would excel in the hill climb. So I admit that environment is a factor, but resources also play into the equation. We are one species, but our genes make each of us unique. That is the reason that I used a gerbil as an extreme. Something like 98%+ of our DNA is shared with that little rodent. In humans, the difference is like .2%, but that can allow drift in many areas, including the ability to think (as in create new knowledge).
May 16th, 2006 at 4:51 pmOops – that .2% number should be .02%. Bad math day.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:24 pm: WaltTheMan :
Why even argue with that know-it-all ?
May 17th, 2006 at 2:41 amAll she does all day is sit behind her computer and tell herself,and others,how smart she is.Even smarter than her Mom and Dad and siblings, and everyone else to boot.
She is disrespectful and insufferable.
#264 – Denny,
May 17th, 2006 at 6:49 amThis nurturing educator who administers tests or shows audio/visuals each and every school day needs to be set straight before she does permanent damage to future generations. I argue with her as a service to humanity. Besides that, it is a diversion.
# 265 WaltTheMan:
I heard that.Keep up the good work.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:49 pm-
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March 16th, 2008 at 7:19 pm