$200 billion.
By on May 16th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
$200 billion.
New amount sought in a class action lawsuit against Verizon, AT&T and Bell South for handing over millions of customer records to the NSA.
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Yeah, that’ll happen about the same time African Americans are given reparations to the tune of $1 trillion.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:38 pmI hope these phone companies close their doors and I hope the owners and their families wind up homeless and dead in the streets. I will laugh.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:42 pmAfter the corporate lawyer tie it up for the requisite number of years to have congress to pass a law which makes the lawsuit illegal, sorta like they are attempting to do in the asbestos cases…
May 16th, 2006 at 5:43 pm$200 billion seems a big enough rolled-up newspaper; whack these bad puppies hard enough and they’ll think twice before pissing on the constitution again.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:47 pmVerizon is now pulling a “Bell South”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310AP_Phone_Records_Privacy.html
May 16th, 2006 at 5:51 pmthe way cCngress, NSA, DOJ and Bush collaborate to get excuse one another’s violations of the law, I don’t see any justice on the verizon — horizon.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:15 pm#5 – So the NSA didn’t ask Verizon for the records — they just volunteered them? ;)
May 16th, 2006 at 6:16 pmHaha owned! I have verison, I need to get in on this.
R2K
May 16th, 2006 at 6:20 pm#7,
Something like that, I’m guessing the DoD officially asked. Regardless, this is an illegal action at the least. Not that I’m hiding anything, but I am not giving up my liberties for a program that has absolutely no oversight.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:38 pmThat’s right little lemmings, jump off the clif (pun intended).
May 16th, 2006 at 6:44 pmWow, looks like ALOT of people are gonna be included in the class action.
You know when Bush tried to get the lawsuit dismissed, thismeans he has something to hide.
Bushco does NOT want the courts to review this.
#2 like I said in previous thread, quit posting “i wish ____ would die. I will laugh” in every thread. You are sick, get help.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:45 pmBushCo will backstop these guys……
May 16th, 2006 at 6:48 pmThey ain’t goin’ down. Try suing the Bushies, see where that gets you with this administration.
Fagetaboutit.
In this morning’s SF Chronicle, they were talking about the suit the EFF has against AT & T for this & they had said that the government introduced a sealed motion yesterday to dismiss the case because it would entail publishing “military secrets”. The lawyers for the EFF said that everything they claim has already been established and admitted to by the parties, so no secrets here.
I have no doubt that bushco will do the very same thing with all the other lawsuits as well. Let’s all hope they aren’t being heard by one of dumbya’s appointees who would throw it out as a patronage.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:51 pmI cant just hear it now. What do y’all bet there’ll be a bill drafted to “protect” those poor ‘ol telephone companys from the big bad consumers. Phfffftttt…
May 16th, 2006 at 6:52 pmThe lawsuit is not the best weapon the American People have against these traitorous companies..
Canceling your Verizpn, BellSouth and AT&T service is the most effective weapon WE The People own. Use it!
May 16th, 2006 at 7:26 pmCancel now. Bubble boy cant stop you can he?
Verizon must be forced into bankruptcy and liquidation to show the other phone providers that helping the Bush Regime carries a cost! The CEO must also be given a prison term too!
May 16th, 2006 at 7:30 pmBut Stupid Republicans,
I don’t know who to switch to!
I live on the east coast and Verizon is “it.”
May 16th, 2006 at 7:33 pmGive me another phone Co. (Other than Vonage which seems fly by night )- and I’ll do it!
The news: They (VZ) deny that they turned over the records. Their stock gained eighteen cents per share today.
So that means they didn’t do it, so they say. They’re innocent. Their guilt must be proved.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:34 pmThe strategy by the phone companies here seems to be to deny they did anything concerning the program that the government will neither confirm nor deny exists. Might be the reason the WH is handling this differently than the earlier news about the wiretapping program.
This is going nowhere fast.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:53 pmI suspect fine, fine parsing here by Verizon and Bell South. The words from Verizon were to the effect that they did not enter into a contract with the NSA. This leaves open the following possibilities:
1) They entered into a contract with a private middleman firm who turned over the numbers to the NSA.
2) They simply gave the numbers gratis to the NSA with no contract but some letter of understanding.
3) Or, they are lying like Rove and banking on the idea that the truth will never see the light of day. \
I would be wililing to bet on 1 or 2 though.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:25 pmFool me once shame on you… fool me twice…………………………………………….won’t be fooled again!!!
May 16th, 2006 at 8:32 pmI hope Qwest can handle the huge influx of customers.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:20 pmHow is anyone gonna prove the Telcos gave the records to the Feds? The Feds won’t even confirm or deny it’s existence. It would open up way too much shit. Can you say dismissed?
May 16th, 2006 at 9:24 pmProof is in the reasoning. Other reasoning is not credible.
How can Qwest claim that they were approached by the NSA and denied them access, but no other telecommunication were approached by the NSA for similar information?
A1: Quest is lying and was never approached either.
A2: Quest was the first and only. The NSA after being challenged about the legality of the request realized that Quest was correct and decided to follow the law (Telecom act)….even though they know that they were previously violating another act (FISA) in the international mining — but wait that wasn’t against the law because whatever the President orders is lawful as he is commander and chief (time of war/crisis, 2nd amendment etc, etc)- so why back off now?
A3: The other telecom’s are under orders not to reveal that they were approached or they officers will be jailed in Guantanamo as terrorst conspirators.
A4: Dummy story planted by the FBI/CIA/Administration – whomever. AND Qwest is in on it.
None plausible. A2 is the funniest though.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:48 pmSomething foul has happened to my spelling. Apologies.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:52 pmBut Stupid Republicans,
I don’t know who to switch to!
I live on the east coast and Verizon is “it.â€
Give me another phone Co. (Other than Vonage which seems fly by night )- and I’ll do it!
Comment by trueblue
Trust me, Vonage is not fly by night. They offer great service for a great price. You must have a broadband connection though.
I have friends on the East Coast (MA & PA) and they use a company called USA DataNet.
How about Qwest? I used them years ago and didn’t realize that they are still in business. They denied the Bubble boy.
Currently I am using a very small company that solicited my business by mail. They are in the Midwest only. I would suggest you do a search for “local phone service” in your area. I’m sure there are some little companies out there.
Good luck. I’ll ask my contacts for advice the next time I talk to them. (I’ll let Bush will fill you in on our conversation, I might as well get some use out of his snooping, kidding)
May 16th, 2006 at 10:29 pmDoes the term “plausible denial ability” ring any bells here? How about viable defense strategy?
What is VERY odd is the lengthy delay between the initial reports by USA TODAY and the subsequential denials by Bell South and Verizon. Still waiting on AT&T. We’d assume that these organizations would have wanted to kill the story quickly, but notice their initial (and rapid) responses were: “We can neither confirm nor deny”.
Now note the defense of AT&T by the Fed citing “official secrets”, which (if allowed by the courts) means that the class action suit, by the public, against a corporation, MUST be dismissed, because the suit would require (in the words of the government), the revelation of “official secrets’ in order for the plaintiffs (the public) to prove there case. No suit, no class action, no disclosure.
By “denying” that records were turned over to the NSA, the plaintiffs would need to “prove”, by testimony from whistle blowers or NSA employees, that the event actually occurred. But, if the USA invokes “official secrets”, that forces dismissal of the lawsuit. no suit, no class action, no disclosure.
Admitting the disclosure, well, that would leave the plaintiffs with an open and shut case against the TELCOS, leaving the government with no means to protect these organizations from the class action lawsuits.
Lying provides a perfect defense, not to mention saves the TELCOS billions.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:53 pm“As usual, Mr. Phelps, if you or any member of your team should be caught, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your existence. This tape will self-destruct in 5 seconds….” cue music…
Imagine, if you will, a world in which the government can spy on your every move, a world in which the government can hide behind the veil of “military secrets” to violate every civil right in the Constitution, a world where laws exist only for the governed, a world where your right to privacy ends with the thoughts in your mind….
This is not a world of fiction or fantasy…this…
is the present.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:54 pmHey BushCo and Verizon: Can you hear me now?
May 16th, 2006 at 10:58 pm#28 - Now note the defense of AT&T by the Fed citing “official secretsâ€, which (if allowed by the courts) means that the class action suit, by the public, against a corporation, MUST be dismissed, because the suit would require (in the words of the government), the revelation of “official secrets’ in order for the plaintiffs (the public) to prove their case. No suit, no class action, no disclosure.
I would be surprised if this defense does not work to get the cases dismissed.
However, this means that every time the Administration violates the Constitution with covert actions deemed “state secrets” the courts will back out. Net result: no Constitutional rights. period.
We are all dead.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:59 pmNow note the defense of AT&T by the Fed citing “official secrets†…
Briseadh na Faire,
EXACTLY. The perfect defense. Trot over the Electronic Freedom Foundation web site and read the press release and the (redacted) government affadavit invoking “state secrets” in EFF’s class action lawsuit against AT&T for the warrentless wire tapping of Americans in contravention of FISA.
Government Files Secret Motion to Dismiss AT&T Surveillance Case
May 16th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
To continue …
I don’t think the courts can “save us” from an Administration run amok, the courts will defer to the Executive on matters involving national security, as defined by the agencies themselves.
The “check” against the Administration’s use of “official secrets” as a genie-like “get of jail free card” is Congress and congressional oversight. But, when Congress abdicates its responsibility, and the courts are powerless, we (the people) are left with only one solution.
The ballot box.
May 16th, 2006 at 11:37 pmOne can find no trust (or hope) in the ballot box either, but I’ll be there all the same. 2006 will be fixed as was 2000 and 2004.
May 16th, 2006 at 11:49 pmjust so you know, the democrats in the house actually did a good thing this week…
conyers and other members filed an amicus brief in CCR v BUSH regarding the nsa wiretapping nonesense.
here is a link to the brief, if you would like to read it.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:06 amCanton – it’s not who votes that counts…it’s who counts the vote.
Theresa – gerrymandered districts were in place long before Diebold voting machines to protect the party in power.
What has the potential to become the penultimate irony is that the Party in Power fights strenuously for the right of the common man to have free and unfettered access to assault rifles.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:16 amCanton – it’s not who votes that counts…it’s who counts the vote.
Theresa – gerrymandered districts were in place long before Diebold voting machines to protect the party in power.
What has the potential to become the penultimate irony is that the Party in Power fights strenuously for the right of the common man to have free and unfettered access to assault rifles.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:17 amI have an update on Lee Sevilla, the homeless woman for whom I’d tried to organize a campaign to get off the streets. Steve Lopez did a followup story and you won’t believe what he found out about her.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:42 am[...] Americans need to stop adding to the class action lawsuit over handing over records of three phone companies, because the “semi-incumbent” won’t be able to pronounce the number soon. Comments » [...]
May 17th, 2006 at 12:49 amA Call To Arms?
It’s a bit off topic, but I’ve often thought that all citizens should cherish the “right to bear arms” as the ulimate safe guard against tyranny, although others would argue that the right was granted to the states … not individuals.
However, relying on the 2nd Amendment is too extreme (and very likely to get one branded as a terrorist) … our 1st Amendment right to free speech and peaceful assembly are more than sufficient … if we choose to exercise it.
Write your Senator, your Representative, your local paper. Demonstrate. Vote.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:56 amProfessor Tribe has an excellent editorial in boston. com titled
bush stomps on fourth amendment
May 17th, 2006 at 1:03 am
Wheres my copy of 1984, I need to check a couple of things. This really wierd.
May 17th, 2006 at 2:45 amMo Do. You know where to go.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:22 amWhy not make it 200 TRILLION!
R2K
May 17th, 2006 at 7:59 amThey’re lying. As a former AT&T employee I can tell you that we were continually told to lie to our customers. And I’m talking about multi million dollar accounts here–simply because they didn’t want them to know they were delaying orders in order to delay the capital outlay. I have no doubt that they are willing to lie about anything to save their butts.
May 17th, 2006 at 8:04 am#40, not a call to arms, but an observation of what might come to pass.
#41, escellent post. Another observation. if the government were listening in to the contents of the phone calls as a part of this covert operation, that too would be shielded from judicial inquiry.
#42, I’m going through 1984 with my students. The parallels are so close, it seems like this Administration is using Orwell’s book as a blueprint for governing.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:04 amSweet. But now I hear that they big telcom’s are denying the whole thinh happened. They must be getting coached by Karl Rove,
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
May 17th, 2006 at 9:15 amSnow day: Tony’s breakdown.
Right now on LCL
free government school grants
What up? I just dropped by. I’ve gotta say, you have cool site! You need to visit my federal government grants website sometime and let me know what you think.
April 8th, 2008 at 10:05 pm