Date: May 16, 2006
To: White House Press Secretary Tony Snow
From: ThinkProgress.org
Re: The use of the term “tar baby”
————————————————————————————————
Today in your first press briefing you referred to the term “tar baby” on two occasions:
SNOW: Having said that, I don’t want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program, the alleged program, the existence of which I can neither confirm nor deny.
….
QUESTION: What are your personal goals? What do you hope to achieve here? Will you continue to televise these briefings? And would you put into English the phrase (OFF-MIKE) the tarbaby?
SNOW: Well, I believe hug the tarbaby, we could trace that back to American lore.
Based on the context of the term, we believe you meant tar baby to mean: “a situation almost impossible to get out of; a problem virtually unsolvable.”
But in “American lore,†the expression tar baby is also a racial slur “used occasionally as a derogatory term for black people.” Use of the term has resulted in demands that people be fired.
As Random House notes, “some people suggest avoiding the use of the term in any context.” Now that you are no longer at Fox News, you may want to take them up on their advice.
UPDATE: Check out Crooks and Liars to watch the video of Snow’s comments.
UPDATE: A previous version of this post incorrectly stated that the articles above described people being fired for using the term “tar baby.” The articles described demands that people be fired. We regret the error.
Wow.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:38 pm“I don’t want to hug the tar baby”
Giving this administrations penchant for giving nicknames, could this be the nickname for Jeff Gannon’s Butthole?
May 16th, 2006 at 3:39 pmthis is nuts…its 2006, not 1956, what the hell is going on…lets see tony walking around dc using the term as loosely as he is buried in the wh
May 16th, 2006 at 3:40 pmwill anybody stand up to this gross negligence, or will it just be the foaming left that is making a mountain out of a molehill again, and again and again
May 16th, 2006 at 3:41 pm[…] New White Hosue Press Secretary (and former Fox News pundidiot) used the phrase “tar baby” in his first press briefing yesterday. Makes you wonder what other racial slurs the new press secretary might use in the future. Inadvertantly, I’m sure. […]
May 16th, 2006 at 3:42 pmGee Snow Job, just what exactly is your opinion of an openly multi-ethnic society?
May 16th, 2006 at 3:42 pmJust the kind of enlightening diatribe you’ve come to expect from the Reichwing of the neocon (bowel) movement. Set the bar a little lower than you normally would for this cult, and Snowjob will never disappoint you. I won’t feel sorry for this clown…he knew damn well what he was getting into. Tony Goebbel head dick of the propaganda ministry.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:42 pmWhat Mr Snow meant to say was he “didn’t want chase that Sambo.”
May 16th, 2006 at 3:42 pmI’ve long felt that we really need another metaphor for the concept, because it’s a useful one.
The nearest I’ve found is “Chinese finger trap,” which isn’t quite the same thing, and which also sounds culturally insensitive.
Quicksand? Not quite …
May 16th, 2006 at 3:44 pmThe term also means “you become attached to that which you attack.”
It’s called (with thanks to R.A. Wilson),”the Tarbaby principle.”
May 16th, 2006 at 3:45 pmWell that didnt take long…
and since Tony believes Racism is dead…..
I guess African Americans will not be upset by the incredibly non-sensical use of this term…..
to that I say “That cracker is crazeeeeeeeeeeeee”
May 16th, 2006 at 3:45 pmAnother ignorant racist employed at the White House. No shock there.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:45 pm#9 John~
May 16th, 2006 at 3:46 pmTry slipperyslope…it seems to be in vogue/stylish and above all, politically correct. No?
Let us not be so distracted by the dancing (apparently racist) puppet.
Every screw up he makes is another distraction from the evil bastards behind the curtain.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:48 pmSnow’s slur was just par for the course when it comes to the Bush outreach effort to African-Americans.
Recall Bush from January 2005 trying to sell Social Security privatization to a town hall meeting of African-American guests:
“Another interesting idea…is a personal savings account…which can’t be used to bet on the lottery, or a dice game, or the track.”
“Secondly, the interesting — there’s a — African American males die sooner than other males do, which means the system is inherently unfair to a certain group of people.”
May 16th, 2006 at 3:50 pmMr Snow then added defensively that if Truthout was objecting to his remarks “he would be more niggardly with his comments in the future.”
May 16th, 2006 at 3:50 pmTony Snow to ThinkProgress: Get your Cotton Picking hands off me!
May 16th, 2006 at 3:50 pm13 - Nah, not even close. A “slippery slope” is passive, where the above metaphor is from a story in which the character’s active struggle to get free was what got him in deeper.
Maybe I should just re-write the story with the “baby” made from some other sticky thing, and publish that. Then I’ll make money and we’ll have a new metaphor.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:50 pmWhat was going through Snow’s mind at the time was…
“Wow, I almost came close to saying ‘we don’t want to lynch the n****r before we test the sturdiness of the branch.’ WHEW! I really could’ve said something WRONG! Snow-man 1, liberal media zero, heh heh heh…”
May 16th, 2006 at 3:51 pmI think his new nickname should be “Snowflake”.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:51 pmThe only way I understand “tar baby” to mean is as a racial slur.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:51 pmHow can anyone else not?
The only explanation for this is:
A. To distract the media from himself and the President (who’s Immigration policy and poll numbers are in the tank) or
B. To get fired…
Really no one could be that stupid…to not only say it once but twice and and then qualify it with the American folklore reference…….
May 16th, 2006 at 3:52 pmSnow is not playing with a full deck:
:p
May 16th, 2006 at 3:57 pm[Comment deleted by admin.]
May 16th, 2006 at 3:58 pmHaving failed totally at having a press secretary who could convince the white house press corps of anything at all (with the added help of a planted “gooser” in the gallery);
May 16th, 2006 at 3:59 pmthe current administration will turn presidential press briefings into a daily stand up routine.
Throwing out controversial and banal utterances which are sure to arouse and offend, thereby distracting again from the ongoing criminal behavior and policies.
Tony Snow is a running gag, he knows it, his bosses know it, and he is perfect to play the front man as the white house press briefings are eventually dismissed as simply bad daytime TV
Sorry, I messed up that link. Again, Snow is not playing with a full deck
http://www.chickenhawkcards.com/5-diamonds.jpg
May 16th, 2006 at 3:59 pmThats Mr Tar Baby to you, Snowflake.
May 16th, 2006 at 3:59 pmOh, this early and he’s already demonstrating a lack of sensitivity. It’s gonna get good, folks.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:01 pmThe above thread states “a situation almost impossible to get out of”, and states this was the context used. Seems to me when someone HEARS a term that has both a legitimate meaning and a derogatory one, and you immediately reference the derogatory. You are the one with the racist thinking more so than the actual speaker.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:01 pmKenny- Here’s one for you: Iraq War…legitmate, or derogetory?
May 16th, 2006 at 4:04 pmOh, come on. I know the legend of the tar baby. The idea is that Brer Rabbit made a baby out of tar to trap Brer Fox, and when Brer Fox went to hug the cute baby, he was stuck in the tar pit. Crony McSnowjob was saying that to comment on reaction to the program would be inadvertently acknowledging its existence, which he is not in a position to do.
I’m no fan of this guy, but I’m not about to assign racism where it’s just a story.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:04 pm#30 Not derogatory more like obscene.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:06 pmYou are the one with the racist thinking more so than the actual speaker.
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 4:01 pm
He’s a journalist. It’s his job to know common interpretation of phrases. He should have known better. This isn’t about us. It’s about Snow being out of tiuch with mainstream interpretations. Tar Baby is not known by the majority of Americans as the alternative definition. I didn’t know there was one, and I’m both smart and educated. How can you expect it of society as a whole then?
May 16th, 2006 at 4:07 pmWhat a dick. And I mean that as we know it from American lore.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:09 pmEarlier I said that this was no big deal and that most of us would defend Hillary Clinton if she used this term - but the more I think about it the more I think that its use is completely indefensible.
Either Snow was ignorant of this terms other meaning or he just didn’t care… neither is acceptable for a person of his stature and position.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:10 pmJeez, he used a term that refers to a classic children’s tale. I’m as sick of this administration as anyone, but the vitriol displayed here is far more frightening.
So it does not matter what a word means anymore, just how you think it sounds … I thought that was Bush’s domain.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:10 pmThe lesson for the press secretary, as a purveyor of words should be clear however…choose your wordsw carefully. Know sensitive subjects, and avoid fanning the flames of stupidity…leave that to Chimpy.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:10 pmUN-BE-LIEVABLE!!!
May 16th, 2006 at 4:12 pmHa!
I can’t wait to hear his reply.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:12 pm31
May 16th, 2006 at 4:13 pmWhile I agree with you on where it came from, I personally would not say that type of statement and I don’t consider myself a PC person. I think the racist use of the phrase through time has given it that taint and anyone that uses it, especially someone in the public eye, should be called on it. Do I think he is a racist…don’t know. Do I think he was stupid and ignorant for saying that….yes. I am sure he will be saying things that are more stupid in the near future that will eclipse this.
I’m no fan of this guy, but I’m not about to assign racism where it’s just a story.
Comment by The Witch — May 16, 2006 @ 4:04 pm
The Witch, or may I call you “The?”
You understand the context of the usage of the term. *I* understand the context of the usage of the term. What’s at debate is not whether he used the term correctly, but whether or not he should’ve used the term at all, because even when used correctly, it bristles with racist connotations, because it’s often been used as a racial slur.
I have one nephew and many nieces, and many friends with children. When they are being silly and climbing all over the place, I’ll call them little monkeys, because they’re climbing all over the place like little monkeys.
Context.
However, I wouldn’t use the term to the children of any of my black friends, even if they were similarly climbing all over the place, because many people have used “little monkey” as a racial slur. I wouldn’t mean it as a racial slur, but so as to not open up a can of worms*, I just wouldn’t use it.
Connotation.
As seemingly innocent as Snow’s use of the phrase “tar baby” might seem to you, the fact that Snow didn’t know or didn’t care that the phrase carries some bad history with it to other people makes you wonder how much he has on the ball, or how much he truly cares about the feelings of others, which, when he is hired to pur a kinder gentlre human face on this beast that is the Bush Administraion, might be kinda important.
*My apologies to any cans of worms reading this post. I just couldn’t think of a better metaphor. Some of my best friends are unopened cans of worms, I swear.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:14 pmI’m far from HIGHLY educated and my wife would debate you if you called me smart. But heck I remember most childhood stories better than some stuff I read last month. Though I might think so, I can’t be that much smarter than most. My mind just didn’t put a slur to it when I heard it.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:14 pmBush Spokesman Tony Snow Uses “Tarbaby” Slur…
“In ‘American lore,’ the expression tar baby is also a racial slur ‘used occasionally as……
May 16th, 2006 at 4:16 pmmaybe Snow and his buddy John Gibson can go out and have more white babies……you know, sure hate to have these white supremists bloodlines diluted
May 16th, 2006 at 4:18 pm[…] As Think Progress correctly notes …in “American lore,” the expression tar baby is also a racial slur “used occasionally as a derogatory term for black people.” Use of the term has resulted in people being fired. […]
May 16th, 2006 at 4:19 pmI’m gonna have to go with #25, Agua Fiero, makes perfect sense.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:19 pmIt’s not the first time he’s used that phrase.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/tony/snow040599.asp
“Most congressional Republicans are guilty of appalling cynicism and silence. They figure Clinton has hugged the tar baby in the Balkans and they want to watch him writhe”
May 16th, 2006 at 4:20 pmMy mind just didn’t put a slur to it when I heard it.
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 4:14 pm
The what did your mind put to it then? That he meant the alternative definition? Sorry, not buying it.
Tar Baby is a derogatory term, along with Brier Rabbit and Uncle Tom. Does that context clarify it a little bit better for you?
If not, go into a group of black people and use it. See how well that goes over. Are any of you neocons capable of thinking outside your egocentric little universe?
May 16th, 2006 at 4:22 pmWell, I looked it up in several places today, because I have only heard tar-baby as a derogatory term for African-American, so my jaw dropped when I heard him say that today. Apparently, the original meaning is a sticky situation (it was included in the old Uncle Remus stories) but that meaning is obscure today. Snow has had two press meetings - each one has been controversial.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:22 pmPerhaps he must re-train himself that what he could say on Fox is NOT what he can say on national TV as a spokesman for the White House.
Remember when in 1999, someone was fired because he used the perfectly legitimate word “niggardly” in proper context, but the guy was fired?
No one uses the word “niggardly” in politics any more, no matter what degree of stinginess or miserly is intended. Snow should take a lesson.
You are all falling victim to “truthiness”. It does not matter that he wasn’t being racist. In your gut, you just know there was something wrong with it.
Cmon’ people, you are smarter than this. There is a lot to take these folks to task for, let us focus on the serious issues(diebold, nsa, frigging war).
May 16th, 2006 at 4:22 pmWhen I was little we always lived in diverse neighborhoods because my father was in the Navy. My grandfather would come visit us, and he would call my black friends “tar babies.” I didn’t know any version of any definition of “tar baby,” but I knew what he meant, and he wasn’t being a kindly old grandpa. He was an old racist cracker who thought he was being clever.
Tony Snow is in a position of public responsibility and he may be a flake, but he’s not an idiot, he needs to change his little speech pattern.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:22 pmOh, Kenny, get a life. If a word has two meanings, one offensive, you’re an idiot if you use it at all in the first place.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:22 pm#50 - Yeah — what dBryant said.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:24 pm“Another interesting idea…is a personal savings account…which can’t be used to bet on the lottery, or a dice game, or the track.â€
“Secondly, the interesting — there’s a — African American males die sooner than other males do, which means the system is inherently unfair to a certain group of people.â€
May 16th, 2006 at 4:25 pmComment by AvengingAngel
Also recall the thoughtful words of Babs Bush as she commented on the victims of Katrina having it better in the superdome than at home.
Also, Tony Snow is from my hometown of Cincinnati, OH. We are known for a lot of things, but our forward thinking on issues of race is not one of them. If you lived here you would not be at all surprised that he said that.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:26 pmSometimes these fools slip up and let their true colors come out, just like Bill (if you abort all black babies it will lower the crime rate) Bennett did.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:28 pmSnow’s comment appears to refer to Joel Chandler Harris’s Uncle Remus Stories, specifically “The Wonderful Tar-Baby.” Perhaps we should not be too quick to decry his comment as being racist when a non-racist connotation fits his statement more closely.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:29 pmI didn’t even know tar baby meant impossible solution, I only knew the alternative, bad meaning, must be a generational thing.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:29 pmTony Snow needs a new metaphor…
Today in his first press briefing, Tony Snow used the term “tar baby” twice. We are pretty sure he meant it as a term for “a sticky situation”, and not as a racial slur, but still. . . not the……
May 16th, 2006 at 4:30 pm#58 - That’s because you’re such a sweet innocent. ;)
May 16th, 2006 at 4:32 pmI didn’t even know tar baby meant impossible solution, I only knew the alternative, bad meaning, must be a generational thing.
Comment by squegeeboo — May 16, 2006 @ 4:29 pm
Yeah, every generation currently alive…
From the lips of a conservative. Appreciate your honesty. :)
May 16th, 2006 at 4:33 pm“The idea is that Osama Brer Rabbit made a baby out of tar to trap Brer W Fox, and when Brer W Fox went to hug the cute PNAC baby, he was stuck in the tar pit.”
Mission ‘complished, y’all.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#41 slappymagoo - Very very well put!!!
Whether through ignorance or insensitivity - this is unacceptable phrasing for the National Press Secretary.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:34 pm#41: I guess I wouldn’t be a very good Press Secretary, then. thanks for not blowing your stack at me for seeming to defend Crony McSnowjob.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:34 pm“I didn’t even know tar baby meant impossible solution,”
No, it refers to a trap.
It’s also a clear racist term. The new press secretary is YET ANOTHER CHILD of Strom Thurman.
That it is a trap using oil is just the beauty part.
His new nickname really ought to be Snow White.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:37 pmThis kerfuffle over a child’s story
May 16th, 2006 at 4:46 pmreference is as ricidulous as
the fiasco a few years ago in
DC when that guy used the word
“niggardly” and everyone screamed
racism so loud he got fired, despite
the fact that the words origins have
nothing to do with race whatsoever.
Spongebob, I too only knew the phrase as a derogatory one. It is amazing what one learns from these threads.
I have no idea what this idiot meant by what he said, however, many people have been fired for these types of SNAFUs. Weren’t there a couple of famous sports commentators who were fired for saying idiotic things such as this…..also, at least from what they said, not meant to be racist?
May 16th, 2006 at 4:46 pm“Tar Baby” is a term to be used by black people and sociologists only.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:48 pmI hope Snow gets cancer again and dies a painful death.
“From the lips of a conservative. Appreciate your honesty. :)”
Occasionaly the truth slips thru, but I do what I can to suppress it.
“That’s because you’re such a sweet innocent. ;)”
May 16th, 2006 at 4:49 pmYup, I’m pretty sure that describes me, one day I even plan on leaving the house.
#66 - Throw another fag on the fire, eh? Who gives a shit about innocent origins of words? /sarcasm off
May 16th, 2006 at 4:50 pmCan someone explain how tar baby became a racist term?
May 16th, 2006 at 4:50 pmI really don’t get it. I’ve only ever heard the term used to refer to getting trapped.
Seriously. How is it racist?
“Snow Baby” - a two faced honkey lipped cracker ass cracker
May 16th, 2006 at 4:50 pmThis kerfuffle over a child’s story
reference is as ricidulous as
the fiasco a few years ago in
DC when that guy used the word
“niggardly†and everyone screamed
racism so loud he got fired, despite
the fact that the words origins have
nothing to do with race whatsoever.
Comment by Dave Rywall
Dave,
May 16th, 2006 at 4:51 pmAchildren’s story you *no longer see*!
There’s a reason: the whole tale was racist!
Like I said on the other thread, that’s why you will NEVER EVER see Song of the South released from Disney. It’s racist!
#69 - Yup, I’m pretty sure that describes me, one day I even plan on leaving the house.
Comment by squegeeboo
Make sure you ask your Mom first, and look both ways before you cross the street. ;)
May 16th, 2006 at 4:52 pmI’m no fan of this guy, but I’m not about to assign racism where it’s just a story.
I’m with The Witch on this one… crying racism when there really is no proof only hurts the cause of those who are fighting real racism.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:52 pm#75 - My position is that this is not about intent, it’s about perception.
May 16th, 2006 at 4:57 pm“Snow Baby†- a two faced honkey lipped cracker ass cracker
Comment by G.W.SuperChrist — May 16, 2006 @ 4:50 pm
Minorities really need to come up with better slurs for rich white boys. Cracker just doesn’t accomplish anything.
I think the Bush Admin might be in the process of creating a few for future use…
May 16th, 2006 at 4:57 pmSnow uses the term here to discuss Clinton’s attempt to use military force in Bosnia and Congress’s need to make sure he declares a “precise military strategy” and “exit strategy” before they should agree to such a plan. Remember the old days, when conservatives criticized presidents who didn’t follow precise military strategies! Seems so long ago…
May 16th, 2006 at 5:00 pm“The expression tar baby is also used occasionally as a derogatory term for black people (in the U.S. it refers to African-Americans; in New Zealand it refers to Maoris), or among blacks as a term for a particularly dark-skinned person. As a result, some people suggest avoiding the use of the term in any context.”
http://www.randomhouse.com/ wotd/ index.pperl?date=19990212
May 16th, 2006 at 5:00 pmIn referring to a thorny question regarding President Bush’s illegal NSA domestic spying programs as a “tar baby,” Tony Snow is just the latest conservative to show why the Republican outreach effort to African-Americans seems doomed to fail. He joins a long list including Ken Mehlman, Senators George Allen, Trent Lott and Jim Demint, Governors Matt Blunt and Haley Barbour, Fox News’ own John Gibson, and of course, President Bush.
For the details, see:
May 16th, 2006 at 5:00 pm“Snow White.”
B’rer Tony and the Tar-Baby…
I heard Tony Snow mention the term “tar-baby” in his recent press conference… I suspect that Tony Snow’s use of the term may upset some people…The controversy has begun!…
May 16th, 2006 at 5:03 pmIt really does not make much difference what the press secretaries say. They are not there to say anything, just to furnish an illusion that the WH is communicating. Has anyone ever learned anything transmitted by the WH Press?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:03 pmThe only thing that really speaks is what they do not talk about.
Now, I’m just as “anybody but Bush” and “Vote the crooks out” as the next left-of-center blue-stater, but all this over “tarbaby” is stupid.
It should be abundantly clear that he was referring to “tar baby” as a metaphor from American folklore.
Everyone ranting about racism needs to reexamine whether they’ve replaced their brain with a knee that jerks.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:04 pmI know you won’t believe it but, I’m from Detroit and I never heard it as racial slur. I remember the story quite well. I have heard several “interesting” Racial Slurs but not that one. In my last 6 years here in NY I haven’t heard it either.
Perhaps it’s more common out West or I just don’t know the people that would use it that way?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:05 pmThat’s Mr. Snow Flake to YOU, Mr. Tar Baby.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:05 pmP.S.: I have *never* heard of tar-baby being used in a derogatory context before. Always as a fable. (It’s literally a baby-figure made of tar, people. Simple.)
May 16th, 2006 at 5:06 pmWell, I guess if Americans have twisted the term into something into something it was never meant to be, then I guess it’s now off limits and nobody should ever use it again. As people have already pointed out a couple of times here already, it’s about perception.
But once again, like the N word, the irony abounds.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:07 pmAt any rate, I think raising a ruckus over this would be immensely counterproductive and would only hurt efforts to hold the Administration responsible for things which are actually important.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:09 pmHis comments are unacceptable. I just also loved watching him flounder at the serious questions being asked. Not the same as in your studio huh Tony?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:10 pmHe knows better…that’s his way of thumbing his nose at all his critics. Just like everyone else in that Adminaistration. He knows that he can push the limit and cross the line, Because BuchCo is above the law!
May 16th, 2006 at 5:11 pmPerhaps it’s more common out West or I just don’t know the people that would use it that way?
Comment by Tundra — May 16, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
Think about where slavery flourished, where cotton was picked, and where the Georgia State flag was revised over a bitter battle to remove the Confederate Flag from it, where Uncle Remus lived, etc….
Song of the ______________
:)
May 16th, 2006 at 5:12 pmIt’s a little early to call Snow a racist based on that one reference. But let’s keep the antennae up - I bet there’ll be more where that came from.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:13 pmA story from Saturday Night Live via Wikipedia:
[…] one point the writers were going to have (Garrett Morris) do a fake ad for “Tar Baby” toothpaste, which would make blacks’ teeth stop glowing in the dark — only when black crew members walked off the set in protest did SNL producer Lorne Michaels drop the idea).
Also from SNL … the famous Richard Pryor/Chevy Chase “job interview” sketch included “Tarbaby” as a slur:
May 16th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
The same people who want to make burning the flag illegal, are in here telling is that this is a non-issue. Figures.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:15 pmHmm … my link to the SNL transcript didn’t post in #94.
Here it is.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:16 pm#91 Song of the ___
May 16th, 2006 at 5:16 pmis it manitees? Song of the Manitees right? Beluga Whales?
So I’m looking up the word “niggardly” when who shows up but Tony Snow.
The Straight Dope
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mniggard.html
Anyone else think this “Tar Baby” thingy might be deliberate?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:16 pmI remember when a college professor was forced to resign because he used the word “niggardly”, which isn’t even a slur.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:19 pmis it manitees? Song of the Manitees right? Beluga Whales?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 16, 2006 @ 5:16 pm
How did you graduate high school thinking manitees and whales are a place where cotton was picked?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:20 pm#99 how else did they keep their lamps lit? Or make corsets?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:23 pmHow did you graduate high school thinking manitees and whales are a place where cotton was picked?
Comment by unbelievable
Oh, the Huge Manatee!
I crack myself up…
May 16th, 2006 at 5:27 pmThis is as Irrelevant as the Jose Conseco thread.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:30 pmKenny! King of the Irrelevant!
May 16th, 2006 at 5:31 pmThis is as Irrelevant as the Jose Conseco thread.
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 5:30 pm
More egocentric blather from another white man who doesn’t get it.
Just wait for another forum then Kenny and quit complaining that you don’t get it. We know already.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:32 pmPlease God, not the tar baby quagmire!
May 16th, 2006 at 5:33 pmI crack myself up…
Comment by Zookeeper — May 16, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
IRI likes to say that a lot… :D
May 16th, 2006 at 5:34 pm#103 Couldn’t the word ZOOKEEPER have a racial undertone. You may have to change your moniker for fear of offending.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:35 pmThis entire WH and its followers are becoming more bizarre by the minute.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:37 pmKenny you can stop proving your lack of intellect now. We noticed it with your first post.
zoo·keep·er
May 16th, 2006 at 5:38 pmn.
One who takes care of animals in a zoo.
Kenny, Terr and Kenneth Fair, if this is so nothing why are you wasting all your time worring about it, don’t you have a war to fight for your der furher, or a border to guard to keep all those”illegals ” out?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:38 pmQuagmire? Did I say quagmire? I meant to say, please Tony Snow, don’t throw me in that there briar patch…
May 16th, 2006 at 5:39 pm#104 check the archives here at TP my race and gender are both revealed. Youre quite mistaken.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:40 pm#107 - Please give me your thoughts on “Zookeeper” as having racial undertones, and I shall consider a change. Otherwise — be gone.
May 16th, 2006 at 5:42 pmOkay, obviously Mr. Snow has a more extensive vocabulary than many people, and it’s laudable that he was probably among the few who realized that he was (technically speaking) using the term “tar baby” correctly. But as the good dictionary said, it’s best not to attempt to use the term at all. And why would he use that term in the first place? Of all the colloquialisms he could have used, he had to pick that term? To me it says a lot about his unconscious mind.
Song of the Manatee????? (He must be young and the movie was locked away never to be seen again before he was born.)
May 16th, 2006 at 5:44 pmFor those of you unfamiliar with the use of tar baby as a racial epithet, here’s another story:
http://www.blackcommentator.com/tar_baby.html
May 16th, 2006 at 5:47 pmIRI likes to say that a lot… :D
Comment by unbelievable
Can you tell I skip over IRI’s comments? I think I’ll stop using that phrase anyhow. ;)
May 16th, 2006 at 5:51 pm#112 - Ah, I recall that your “butt is brown as a berry.” Am I correct?
May 16th, 2006 at 5:55 pmI don’t recall your gender — Kenny.
#107 Just having fun. But awfuly nice of you to offer to change the name if it offended me. And to Unbelievable re:#48 I followed your suggestion.(didn’t have to travel further than my living room) Seems in my house only my cranky brother in law took offense. But then again He’s not very well read. The other four of us all read Br”er Rabbit. Education seems to be the key.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:01 pmFor those of you unfamiliar with the use of tar baby as a racial epithet, here’s another story:
I don’t doubt it could be used that way, I just was unfamiliar with it. It is odd though that through the whole article they use the term “good old boys” like crazy.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:01 pm#117 very good you type so much faster than me.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:02 pmKenny is not black. But he is self-centered and ignorant.
I decided to ask my uneducated mother from the Baby Boomer generation, who was born in the Northeast, if she knows what a ‘tar baby’ is. She said, verbatim, “A black baby”. She had heard of the other definition, but it was not her first answer.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:02 pm[. . .]
“Brer Rabbit keep on axin’ ‘im, en de Tar-Baby, she keep on sayin’ nothin’, twel present’y Brer Rabbit draw back wid his fis’, he did, en blip he tuck ‘er side er de head. Right dar’s whar he broke his merlasses jug. His fis’ stuck, en he can’t pull loose. De tar hilt ‘im. But Tar-Baby, she stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.
“`Ef you don’t lemme loose, I’ll knock you agin,’ sez Brer Rabbit, sezee, en wid dat he fotch ‘er a wipe wid de udder han’, en dat stuck. Tar-Baby, she ain’y sayin’ nuthin’, en Brer Fox, he lay low.”
I don’t know, I think my original interpretaion was correct. There might be several other interpretations within the story, but “you are attached to what you attack” is also in the story.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:05 pmI never heard of tarbaby thought of as a derogatory term until today. But what do I know, I am but an innocent bunny. If words become unusable if it is used derogatorially in the past, then we would be letting the racists to define out vocabulary. It is time to reclaim words such as tarbaby from the racists. To reclaim the word is to reclaim the culture which the racists has painted with blind strokes. By stealing “tarbaby” form the american lexicon, the racists is in fact claiming more than a word but all the folk tales too, and from there the entire culture, so that they can use it in caricture, and enslave it for their vile uses. We must free the grubby paws of the racists from words, tales, and cultures. To set it free, and not yield to their trespasses. And in time we can restore the tarbaby to briar rabbit, and all his friends.
To reclaim the word, we must use it. Use it correctly, the way it was before its racist corruption. We must use it proudly, and say that we own this word, not the racists. We own it in a way that the racists can never appreciate. For they can only mock, not elevate. we must make it so that the dictionaries has to drop its racist conotation, for it is no longer used.
Sorry about the rant but it just bugs me that racists gets to define our language.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:05 pmDear God, please let Keith Olbermann cover this. Oh, and put a bolt of lightning up that Aryan Snow’s crotch, OK?
May 16th, 2006 at 6:07 pmI followed your suggestion.(didn’t have to travel further than my living room) Seems in my house only my cranky brother in law took offense. But then again He’s not very well read. The other four of us all read Brâ€er Rabbit. Education seems to be the key.
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 6:01 pm
That would be hysterical if it were true.
Now go try Uncle Tom and the n-word. Let us know how that goes over so we can compare and contrast.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:08 pm123,
Well said, good point
May 16th, 2006 at 6:08 pmIt’s interesting that he set up answering Helen with something like ” lets segregate the issues”
May 16th, 2006 at 6:12 pmBushian slip?
Good point JUST JOHN , But I think the term “Chinese Finger Trap” is much less offensive than’T@rb@by” because the former relates to an object, the latter a Human Being
May 16th, 2006 at 6:13 pm#121 Can you see thru my computer? Strange I dont have a web cam. Sorry if my post dont reflect what you think is “the black veiw”. I’m a little convoluted in my thinking. More libertarian than liberal. And a shameless capitalist when it comes to MY money. Call me crazy but I’ve worked hard for and saved quite alot of it and dont want my govt wasting anymore than I gotta give them. I confess I even pay capital gains now. But the one thing I’m sure of is in the morning my dear wife has to look at is my Big Black…………face.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:13 pmI’m far from HIGHLY educated and my wife would debate you if you called me smart.
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 4:14 pm
You said I was wrong about your gender. So, are you a man or a lesbian living in Massachusetts?
May 16th, 2006 at 6:14 pmCan you see thru my computer?
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 6:13 pm
Well, if you’re a black woman, then I can be psychic…
May 16th, 2006 at 6:16 pmFor the record, the story of Brer Rabbit and the tar baby is based on a West African folk tale about Anansi. So to say that it’s inherently racist is a bit of a stretch.
I don’t think the White House press secretary should have used the term, but way too much is being made out of it.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:16 pmDaniel,
The country Niger is also in Africa. So go tell blacks that the n-word, a derogatory term derived from the mispronunciation of that name can’t be racist.
It’a about intent. Just like Aunt Jemima pancake syrup changed its image when the term became an epithet.
So I guess you still use the word gay to mean happy and queer to mean odd?
Seriously.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:20 pmUnbelievable you doubt a troll who has appeared to have use three different names to make us think that there are more than one troll arguing that using a racial slur by a white house press spokesman is nothing to get worried about, like the time good ole trent lott shoves his foot into his mouth, well he might be decietful but at least kenny got off southpark to grace us today….
May 16th, 2006 at 6:20 pm#120 - It’s weird because I didn’t look that up in the archives — I remembered it. I recall being intrigued…
May 16th, 2006 at 6:21 pmI said earlier post disclosed my race and gender. I find myself mentioning the smartest thing I’ve done with my life all the time. That would be marrying her. Dont be so suspicious. Also if we’re gonna argue on this thing I’m gonna need a few word head start. Your improving my typing but my spelling goes down when I try to keep up with you.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:21 pmare you a man or a lesbian living in Massachusetts?
Are you saying only Lesbians live in Massachusetts? :)
May 16th, 2006 at 6:22 pmbut at least kenny got off southpark to grace us today….
Comment by Clif — May 16, 2006 @ 6:20 pm
Yeah, ‘grace’ is the word I was thinking here ; )
May 16th, 2006 at 6:23 pmI agree with Chris Wolf #98.
Snow’s first two outings as press secretary for the WH have both been controversial with racist overtones. Or which could be construed as having racist overtones. How coincidental can this be? Perhaps, Snow has decided that his new job is the proverbial ‘tar baby’ and he wants OUT. Ergo, he is making public gaffes, racial insinuations and even sobbing in public. All situations which have been known to get public figures fired. I simply do not believe this is being done without forethought or reason.
Snow has realized he is in over his head with this WH, and that his own ethics and morals, will not allow him to do this job with a good conscious.
He is begging to be fired. After learning he is inDEED in the proverbial briar patch.
Serves him right, for all those years he backed up this administration. Even that memo he fired off telling the press they were not covering the ‘good news’ of this administration…yeah riiiiight….he must have had lots of angst over that..which is why his doctor had to tell him those stomach pains were not colon cancer.
Snow has decided to act like Colbert in hopes of being fired…hahahahahaha
May 16th, 2006 at 6:23 pmPlease.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:24 pmThey parse, they explicate, they frame because they know the EMOTIONAL IMPACT of their carefully chosen words and phrases, think “TERROR”, “CAUTION”, “SECURITY”, “PATRIOT” yada yada..
You know, * BUZZ WORDS *.
I agree, this was deliberate, a power play and it worked.
#135 just something my mother said about my oldest son when he was born. Been using it ever since.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:25 pmDaniel there is an old saying from ancestors of my father that says do not judge a man unless you walk in his moccasins for a day, and since you haven’t do not attempt to judge the insult others might feel….
May 16th, 2006 at 6:25 pmSorry Kenny, but I don’t remember anything about you. And I’m really not going to spend my time digging if you can’t just come out and post it here. I have no attention span for those sorts of games.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:26 pmAre you saying only Lesbians live in Massachusetts? :)
Comment by Tundra — May 16, 2006 @ 6:22 pm
Legally only married ones do. :)
May 16th, 2006 at 6:27 pmIf Snow doesn’t like his job any more, wouldn’t he just resign?
Do they have 90-day probationary periods for cabinet posts (this is not a real question for those thinking of ed-u-ma-cating me on the matter :)
May 16th, 2006 at 6:29 pm#141 - That’s so sweet. Thanks.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:29 pmWhat in the world is going on here. Tarbaby means “a sticky situation — something hard to get out of…” When did this get a racist connotation. I guess I missed something. OK. I just looked this thing up. It’s from Brer Rabbit for pete’s sake. Could it possibly be hat people see racism where there is none. Semi-related: I manage our company’s anti-spam system. Until recently we maintained a “blacklist” of banned email domains. But the vendor (CipherTrust) recently changed this to “Blocklist” because “blacklist” apparantly was offending black people. OMG, it’s a color people. Can we get over this stuff already?
May 16th, 2006 at 6:31 pmZookeeper its always nice to be acknowledged by someone.Thanks. Having dinner now ,maybe Unbelievable can look into her magic computer and tell me whats on the table. To all, Smile and Gooodnite.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:33 pmOh get over it! We all have to ‘hug the tar baby’ at some point. It’s obvious he’s using the reference (as I am) in the context of being in an imposible position to defend. Guess what? He’s ended up ‘hugging the tar baby’ anyway. What a funny paradox.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:36 pm#148 - Have a nice evening.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:36 pmPeople… if you feel–in any way–that Snow’s comment is a racist slur… GROW UP!
“WAAAAAAAA… he called me a NAME!”
May 16th, 2006 at 6:37 pmThe easy way to determine what Snow meant is to watch for his reaction to having the derogatory meaning pointed out to him. If he says he wasn’t familiar with that usage and says he will avoid the term in the future, then I he can be reasonably assumed to have been unfamiliar with it. It’s possible that his only contact (hah!) with “tar baby” may have been from Uncle Remus.
On the other hand, if he sputters and complains that he’s being race-baited and that only an uppity person of color would take offense at the term (despite history that it has, in fact been used as an epithet by a certain segment of the white population) then you can assume he knew what he was saying could be offensive.
As the Bush says, history will be the decider.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:39 pmRobert as soon as we get over the genocide and slavery that this counrty is actually built on….
May 16th, 2006 at 6:39 pmI’m sorry, but when I see this quote:
Having said that, I don’t want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program, the alleged program, the existence of which I can neither confirm nor deny.
Thinkprogress would be better advised to headline: WHITEHOUSE STONEWALLS ON ALLEGED ILLEGAL ACTIVITY rather than fussing about the tarbaby nonsense. Inarticulate? Insensitive? Probably. Don’t bury the lede, folks.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:40 pmmaybe Unbelievable can look into her magic computer and tell me whats on the table. To all, Smile and Gooodnite.
Comment by Kenny — May 16, 2006 @ 6:33 pm
First Kenny’s a he and not highly educated.
Then Kenny’s not a he, is black and is highly educated.
And then, as he trips over his gender faux pas, Kenny is a he, and a father.
Doesn’t take a magic computer Kenny to know that your having crap for dinner (since you’re obviously so full of it).
May 16th, 2006 at 6:44 pmRobert and Jono Jack Rackham,
We’re coming over to your house to burn flags. You have to tolerate it because it’s legal.
Insensitive morons.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:46 pmFor people who don’t think it’s a big deal, why don’t you redirect your feigned outrage at those who are offended by it to the bastard who used a term WE ALL KNOW is a racist slur…
But what do I know, maybe I’m just trying to hug the Porch Monkey?
Doesn’t make it right, does it?
Nope. Not at all.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:48 pmSome very ignorant kid said today that he hates Martin Luther King Jr.
I told him “You don’t know the man. He died before you were born.”
“Well, I know what he stands for an I hate that.” the kid insisted.
“You hate tolerance? Who hates tolerance?” I replied, noticing the black kid standing next to him trying not to feel insulted.
It is a big deal people. When an entire race of people has been oppressed for their skin color, and continues to be in some parts of the country, it’s a very big deal.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:53 pm#151 - “WAAAAAAAA… he called me a NAME!â€
Comment by Rod
Funny — coming from a guy named — Rod.
May 16th, 2006 at 6:54 pmI have no mercy or compassion in me for a society that will crush people, and then penalize them for not being able to stand up under the weight.
Malcolm X (1925 - 1965),
May 16th, 2006 at 6:57 pm“Tar Baby” is the name of a book by ‘Toni Morrison’ which won the Nobel Peace Prize in Literature. Not confused with “the Tar Baby” which is a novel by ‘Jerome Charyn’. Then there is the restored sculptur, TAR BABY VS. ST. SEBASTIAN at the North Carolina Museum of Art and what about Walt Disney’s “The Wonderful Tar Baby”? Well we all know Walt was a wacist, wight? Seems to me you’re gonna need a lot of flags. Iraq is a big Tar Baby too.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:01 pmThere is a famous Saturday Night Live sketch with Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor where it’s obvious that “tar baby” is a derogatory term.
Obviously, Tony Snow is not an SNL fan.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:11 pmAnd the Republicans are courting the African Americans??? I hope African Americans realize that all blacks are tokens in the Republican party as are any other ethnic group. The Repubs really like it LILY WHITE. Tony Snow’s comment is just further proof - a Freudian slip - more like it. There are more appropriate metaphors that the Snowman could have used.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:17 pmhttp://transcripts.cnn.com/ TRANSCRIPTS/ 0001/ 24/ lkl.00.html
ANN RICHARDS (D), FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR: “And it’s a tar baby he can’t turn loose of.”
How could she and she was the Governor of a state?
(Yes he has began searching now)
May 16th, 2006 at 7:19 pmHonestly. So “tar-baby” is an offensive slur rather than a colorful and useful metaphor, because ignorant people imagine it to be racist. It wasn’t racist in its original context, it wasn’t racist in the context Tony Snow used it in, and forbidding him to say it because somebody might decide to be offended by it is nuts. This reminds me of when Anthony Williams fired an aid for using the term “niggardly,” in a *completely* non-offensive way, because to ignorant people, it sounds like another, offensive, word. How ’bout let’s not say “beaver dam” any more, either, okay?
This is the kind of behavior by liberals - and I am one, btw - that makes us the worthy objects of mockery. Let’s find a real problem to complain about, it’s not like it’s difficult these days.
Oh, and apparently neither Tony Snow no a commenter above is really familiar with the fable… Brer Rabbit’s tarbaby wasn’t a baby who he tried to hug. Brer Rabbit got stuck because he hauled off and hit the tarbaby for, he thought, refusing to speak to him. The madder he got, and the more he struck the tarbaby, the stucker he got. Tarbaby’s a great, illustrative term, and I for one have no intention of abandoning it for the sake of ignorant people’s sensibilities. Grow up.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:21 pmLet’s string up Tony! You people are pathetic. I know context is a tough concept for you, but you PC police REALLY need to get a clue. The context of his use of this phrase is clear and has absolutely no racial tone whatsover.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:23 pmJust to let people know, as a black man raised in the 60s, I find the word tar baby to ver insensitive, also I find that that the people who do not understand why, are also insensitive.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:26 pmWhen the black mayor of New Orleans stated that New Orleans was going to be “chocolate” again, the press made a big stink about it. Now Mr. Lily White Snowman uses the term ‘tar baby’ and the press says nothing.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:28 pmAs a black man who grew up in the 60s and had to endure racism at it worst, I find the term tar baby to be insensitive, also, for all who do not understand why I feel that way, are also insensitve
May 16th, 2006 at 7:29 pmWitch thanks for the explanation of the lore. But take a poll of the two definitions. The majority of Americans are probably only familiar with the darker meaning; some like Tony (I believe) only with the meaning in lore; while others are aware of both. Thus, it is understandable why the majority of Americans were shocked by his use of the term. I for one was flabbergasted, until I found this page. Contextually either meaning worked.
May 16th, 2006 at 7:32 pmTony — you’re not on FNC anymore, you can’t say things like that. But wait, who really cares about that in the BA?
“Tar baby” is pretty bad, but I thought Snow’s absolute breakdown today was far more interesting.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
Snow day: Right now on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
May 16th, 2006 at 7:37 pmA fresh SSA:Editorial is now on SSA
Snow off to a racist start…
From Think Progress, here’s what Tony Snow had to say today during his first briefing:SNOW: Having said that, I don’t want to hug the tar baby of trying to comment on the program, the alleged program, the existence of which…
May 16th, 2006 at 8:02 pmIt may not be an admission of racism, but is one of ignorance.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:02 pm“The majority of Americans are probably only familiar with the darker meaning”;
This has been asserted a number of times, but I have no idea why people think this. I grew up in the south among open racists, and never heard this used as a slur, although I certainly can believe that it has been used that way - we’re a racist country, and we find lots of ways to derogate people. Do a bit of googling (or just plain reading, for that matter) and you will innumerable intances of this term used in its original sense. I can’t believe that we want to throw away good, colorful language, rooted in our folkways, because some yahoos find a way to use it as an insult. That’s crazy.
“Thus, it is understandable why the majority of Americans were shocked by his use of the term.”
And I don’t know WHERE you got this… the majority of Americans didn’t even hear him say it. This is total projection.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:03 pm#139 Perhaps, Snow has decided that his new job is the proverbial ‘tar baby’ and he wants OUT.
Using the word ‘tar baby’ in the context of this sentence does not sound racist. Using this term in this context “hug the tar baby” smells of racism. One sentence ‘tar baby’ is an inanimate object, the other sentence ‘tar baby’ becomes human thereby sounding racist. Words take on meanings based on how they are used. The English language has more words than any other language which requires knowing what words to use and when to use them.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:24 pmfwiw, i’m 30+ years old, grew up in the south, and never heard “tar baby” used a racial slur (heard plenty of other terms). apparently it is used that way, but i’m still unclear why it would be racist in the context snow used it in.
May 16th, 2006 at 8:56 pmThis is way too much attention for this topic. Seems kinda rabid at times.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:11 pmC’mon. I’m as ready as the next liberal to jump on a mistake by
May 16th, 2006 at 9:15 pmthe new guy, but I was raised that “tar baby” refers to the Brer
Rabbit meaning and is suitable for use in public speech.
Given the context that he used it in, there shouldn’t be any doubt
what he meant.
I gotta say that this is way too much time wasted on a topic that only serves to make us look like overly sensitive whiners. I understand both the original etymology of “tar baby” as well as the racial slur. I’m sure Snow’s comment was in reference to Brer Rabbit version. I admit that it was stupid for him to use this term considering its other connotation, however, we have more important topics to tackle than Snow’s flippant comments. So my fellow liberals and democrats, just take a pill and move on.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:21 pm#179 by those who knows the two different meanings…kinda like the repug trot to Bob Jones U when they declare for Office to make sure the right message is sent to the right people…RIGHT?
May 16th, 2006 at 9:22 pmPosted earlier at talk left.
it is not reasonable to misapply folk literature to attack an opponent.
more importantly, it is immensely destructive to that literature.
think progress, which is at the top of my reading list each day, is simply wrong, and opportunistic, in this instance.
joel chandler harris’ “uncle remus” was, essentially, a plagiarism (by harris) of black folk tales. except of course, like the brothers grimm, and hans christian andersen, we don’t really consider it plagiarism when somebody writes things down for the first time.
these are wonderful stories.
wonderful for children.
wonderful for adults.
read them!
criticizing the president’s new spokesman for using “tar baby” is like criticizing american (liberal)commentators for being “racist” with respect to the dubai ports deal.
“political correctness” is not a term i like a lot,
mostly because it had its origins in the opposition to competent women joining american university faculties in the 1980’s (begun at the univ of texas, natch).
but the term definitely applies here.
some problems are, indeed, “tar babies” - difficult, “sticky” problems.
furthermore, although i can’t even pretend to know all of southern racial invective, i don’t recall “tar baby” being an oft-used racial slur, as think progress implies.
it bothers me a lot that think progress,
leaves the cite from random house hanging, as if they did not themselves have the courage to recommend it,
but were willing to hide behind random house’s reputation and insinuate.
think progress owes it readers an apology.
and it needs to remind this opportunistic reporter/editorialist that it is facts,
not insinuations,
that win the argument
and the day.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:24 pmMan, i’m beginning to think you guys are a bunch of over sensitive whiners (thanks Vaughn D. Taylor). Then to top it off some left wing nuts are slamming Tony for choking up when asked to discuss his bout with cancer (as if it wasn’t genuine). I thought the republicans were supposed to be the heartless ones? Dang, your fangs are showing.
May 16th, 2006 at 9:58 pmI don’t know how many people in this discussion have read the Uncle Remus, but from what I remember, Brer Rabbit didn’t hug the tar baby, he punched it for giving him the silent treatment when he said hello, which he considered to be a disrespectful affront. It was a clever trap set by Brer Fox and Brer Bear to catch the Brer Rabbit, and the one time they were successful, by catching him through is own conceit. Of course, he escaped by offering to them the one punishment he couldn’t withstand “please don’t throw me in that briar patch!” (the best of two sayings from that story, but both are good.)
You can deconstruct or politically correct that however you want to draw some conclusions, I’m just relaying the story.
ps. the rabbit, bear, and fox were all negroes, the baby was creosote.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:11 pmDefinition: to tar and feather a person
Source: Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)
Tar \Tar\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Tarred; p. pr. & vb. n. Tarring.]
To smear with tar, or as with tar; as, to tar ropes; to tar
cloth. To tar and feather a person. See under Feather, v. t.
Feather \Feath”er\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Feathered; p. pr. &
vb. n. Feathering.]
1. To furnish with a feather or feathers, as an arrow or a
cap. An eagle had the ill hap to be struck with an arrow
feathered from her own wing. –L’Estrange.
2. To adorn, as with feathers; to fringe. A few birches oaks still feathered the narrow ravines. –Sir W. Scott.
3. To render light as a feather; to give wings to.[R.]
The Polonian story perhaps may feather some tedions
hours. –Loveday.
4. To enrich; to exalt; to benefit.
They stuck not to say that the king cared not to
plume his nobility and people to feather himself.
–Bacon.
–Dryden.
5. To tread, as a cock. –Dryden.
To feather one’s nest, to provide for one’s self especially
from property belonging to another, confided to one’s
care; — an expression taken from the practice of birds
which collect feathers for the lining of their nests.
To feather an oar (Naut), to turn it when it leaves the
water so that the blade will be horizontal and offer the
least resistance to air while reaching for another stroke.
To tar and feather a person, to smear him with tar and cover him with feathers, as a punishment or an indignity.Nuff Said
May 16th, 2006 at 10:19 pmergo snow is a apologist for the greedy nest lining Bush types.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:24 pmErgo the bushies are tar babies, not the blacks or whites, Bush is signalling he was wrong. He has been Indignant and refuse to say so publicly.
Damnit George SAY WHAT YOU MEAN!!
May 16th, 2006 at 10:27 pmSAy it!!!!
and if its truth we wil be behind you 100%
If you mislead us, of course we cannot back the “Idignant”
those whom line their nests at the cost of others.
Tony has lined his nest.
May 16th, 2006 at 10:29 pmthe Tar baby has snagged yet another victim.
And he hugged it.$$
uh, the fact is that the phrase ‘tar baby’, despite its origins, has had a racist connotation in the american vernacular for quite some time. one needs only to consider the term for a few brief seconds to understand why it might be offensive (seriously, if you can’t fathom why some might consider this phrase to be insulting, or how it could be used in an insulting manner, then you need a course in remedial english).
it is also true that the phrase was used in ’song of the south’, and that you will have a very hard time finding the disney version of this story on dvd, video or any other format because it was taken completely out of production, deemed racist and insensitive. there was a big kerfuffle about this in the 80’s. i specifically remember, however, seeing this movie at a cinema as a child (in the 70’s) in alabama.
i don’t think we’ll ever know whether tony snow actually was aware of the negative application of the term. it could be that he was completely ignorant of the connotation, or it could be that he was floating a ‘test balloon’ for the so-called “moral values” voters (i.e. the republican base — and how ironic that one of the best ways to get the base excited is to embed racist innuendo into a speech?). or it could be, as a previous commenter has said, that mr. snow has already realized the futility of his position and wants out.
is this newsworthy? well, that the new press secretary for a less-than-stellar-on-racial-issues president is using a widely-accepted derogatory term for black people might not be as newsworthy as, say, the president himself using the word ‘crusade’ to describe a war in the middle east, but it is certainly relevant enough to warrant discussion in the press. it’s also certainly relevant enough for someone to kindly inform the press sec