New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law
New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law
In recent days, AT&T, Bell South and Verizon have all issued statements denying that they’ve handed over phone records to the NSA, as reported by USA today.
There are three possibilities:
1) The USA Today story is inaccurate;
2) The telcos left enough wiggle room in the statements that both the USA Today story and their statements are accurate; or
3) The statements from the telcos are inaccurate.
Ordinarily, a company that conceals their transactions and activities from the public would violate securities law. But an presidential memorandum signed by the President on May 5 allows the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, to authorize a company to conceal activities related to national security. (See 15 U.S.C. 78m(b)(3)(A))
There is no evidence that this executive order has been used by John Negroponte with respect to the telcos. Of course, if it was used, we wouldn’t know about it.
UPDATE: An earlier version of this post incorrectly referred to the May 5 document as an “executive order.” It is a presidential memorandum.
UPDATE II: Greg Sargent unpacks the Verizon and Bell South denials.
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144 Responses to “New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law”
“Of course, if it was used, we wouldn’t know about it.”
Never argue with a Sicilian when death is on the line?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:10 amThat’s brilliant. Where do they come up with this stuff?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:12 amAnd Kenny Chesney For Dessert…
Bush and Howard: Best Mates
The White House dinner in honor of Australian Prime Minister John Howard found guests dining on squash soup; barramundi, a fish native to Australia (these, however, were farmed in Massachusetts); summer greens, and an Australian black pearl nougat glace (nougat ice cream with oranges). On a diplomatic note, the White House served a Greg Norman chardonnay from Santa Barbara.
Who’s Hot, Who’s Not - Guess Who Came to Dinner: The White House List san the Cheney’s, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby…
I did not receive an Evite either and Condi went stag, but apparently I enjoyed a much nicer meal at Sushi Ko with colleagues.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:12 amI want to see Telco Executives and their families starving in the streets. It will make me laugh.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:12 amOf course it is OK to lie in the interest of national security. Hasn’t that been the cornerstone of the current administration?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:13 amJudge: “Did you break the law”….”I can’t talk about it because of ‘national security’…
May 17th, 2006 at 11:17 amJudge: “Oh…OK..your free to go”
Does the Executive Order cover retroactively?
Thank the Electronic Freedom Frontier in it’s lawsuit against AT & T.
What good is amn Executive Order OK’ing, nay, MANDATEING that someone lie? Why didn’t Clinton think of that one? Why? Cause he isn’t nearly so corrupt and morally bankrupt as the droids in bushco.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:18 am#5 - I agree, Walt. The cornerstone of this administration is to lie at every opportunity for whatever reason they choose — the excuse they use is national security.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:18 amNever argue with a Sicilian when death is on the line?
Comment by squegeeboo — May 17, 2006 @ 11:10 am
The Princess Bride… are you serious?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:18 amJudd,
Is the order retroactive? I’m sure the illegal tapping was going on before May 6th?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:21 amJudge: “Oh…OK..your free to goâ€
Comment by wisedup — May 17, 2006 @ 11:17 am
Isn’t that why they were happy about Roberts and Alito?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:22 amThe more they lie, the more becomes uncovered. Bush just continues to cement his fate as the worst president of all time. His life has been unprincipled and Americans now are dealing with the consequences of it.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:23 amThe Princess Bride… are you serious?
Comment by unbelievable
That’s a great movie.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:24 amIt relates to the records they have to keep. It’s unclear to me how useful it could potentially be to the telcos for current, future or previous conduct.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:25 amHis life has been unprincipled and Americans now are dealing with the consequences of it.
Comment by Southwest Bob — May 17, 2006 @ 11:23 am
The fact that they don’t understand that association is also astounding. He was bad at everything else in his life - but sure, he’ll be good at running the country. Fools.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:25 am#15 - You’d think that at some point he’d stop digging the hole he’s in, or someone around him would make him stop, but he just can’t seem to help himself. Fascinating, really…
May 17th, 2006 at 11:28 amNow Im F’in pissed…..what the F!!
If our DEM senators do not finally stand up to this insanity I am going to go ballistic
Are you kidding me…….
Think about it the “morally superior” Republicans have legislated LYING to the American people…
this is nuts
just nuts…
May 17th, 2006 at 11:29 amFascinating, really…
Or it would be if the American people weren’t regularly taking it up the ass because of GWB’s inadequacy.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:30 amWhat a wonderful country we live in where it apparently has become legal, normal and acceptable to lie your f**cking ass off. We have a president who is a habitual liar and now it seems that Buschco is pushing that it’s okay for everyone to lie. Is this a part of “trickle down” that conservative Republicans have been talking about?
May 17th, 2006 at 11:31 amIs there ever a time when a corporate leader can justify lying? How many lies are okay?
Isn’t our entire system of governance and society based on checks and balances and trust?
We have a very immoral and unethical administration here, and these types of lies are so much worse and do so much more damage to the very fabric of our country.
Why doesn’t Bush get it over with and sign one huge executive order:
May 17th, 2006 at 11:35 amI am King. You are my sheep.
Is this a part of “trickle down†that conservative Republicans have been talking about?
Comment by Willy
I’d call it tinkle down.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:36 am#9 “The Princess Bride… are you serious?”
No more so then ever, I just felt it fit(barely) due to the whole part, about but you know that I know that you know that I know….etc, cause it seems to be happening now, I know that you know that I released the records, but you know that I know that you know that I have plausable deniablility, etc….
May 17th, 2006 at 11:38 amTherefore the round up and imprisonment of certain groups of people and the confiscation of their assets by the government could be concealed for National Security reasons. What’s that funny smell in the air? ……………I smell NEONAZIS!
May 17th, 2006 at 11:40 amRepublican Watersports practiced in public and in private. Don’t get any onya.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:42 amK K K Karl will be indicted, they will lose this fall.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:43 amEnd of War Pig’s reign.
Subsequently pop bubbly cork.
OK, I want one of those orders. I want to lie to the IRS on my taxes and then tell them I can’t divulge the true information because it’s secret and they can’t ask. Un huh! Or maybe I could use a “Signing Statement” at the end of my Tax return that says I am telling the truth except in cases I don’t want to. How fast do you think I would be in jail? Well time to apply that to our President, Vice President and the rest of the criminals on the White House staff.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:43 amI was a corrections officer and administrator for over 31 years. I’ve seen many GWB’s in my life. These individuals haven’t a developed sense of life beyond themselves. They are emotionally isolated from the world and view others only as means to an end. They are insecure and intolerant of anyone or anything that opposes them. When you have such a person who is president, you get someone who believes he is a dictator and will act to make it so.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:44 amJudd,
It seems to relate to SEC filings, not to individuals within the Teleco’s. Even faced with withholding of SEC filings, a class action could subpoena individuals for deposition under the class action.
Let’s face it, class action lawsuits are the only way to get info under current climate, I only hope the administration is two steps behind.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:47 amWhat difference could that possible make? Assuming the above is correct, the order authorizes them to lie, now. One can lie about what happened in the past (in fact, that’s the usual kind of lie, isn’t it?). It’s not as if the order only permits them to lie about things happening from May 6th on.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:51 amdak
It makes a huge difference within the courts.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:54 amWell Bush himself lies, so why not his telecom stooges? Lying seems to be rampant in Washington by everybody now!
May 17th, 2006 at 11:56 amI’ll bet it doesn’t protect them from New York State’s Martin Act.
Which, I’m sure you’ve noticed, was used to great effect by AG Spitzer. Just saying, if the telcos think they can lie with impunity, they are in for a very rude awakening. It’s good politics to take on the phone company, it’s VERY good politics to campaign against Bush, and there are a lot of state AGs looking to put scalps on their walls.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:57 amThere are three possibilities
I vote for #2 with a dash of #3. I’m teaching for Verizon at 140 West Street in Manhattan this week, and I asked my students about their company’s statement. They were, uh…skeptical of the PR’s claims. It’s clear that they used words like “track” (in quotes, no less) very deliberately, and the legal department spent the last several days parsing it all.
The plot sickens…
May 17th, 2006 at 12:02 pmAhhhh, to be above the law at anytime, for any reason.
If they have a problem with a particular law, they change it to benefit themselves.
Soon will come the Presidential Memorandum stating that since they will be controlling the results of the most important elections, there really isn’t any reason to continue with the usless exercise of voting.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:04 pmLying begets Lying…
Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten. (Bob L.)
Rove, Bush, Rummy, Fleisher, McLellan, Cheney, Hayden, Libby,
Snow, Savarin, Abramoff, Ney, Scalia, Alito, Roberts, Meyers, Laura,
Condi, Kristol, Card, Hadley, et al have made a fortune lying to Americans.
They all learned this was wrong in Kindergarten. Do you think they care?
I wonder how their God views lying. Mine states in a commandment, ‘Thou
Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor’.
He also doesn’t want people killing each other.
Is this too hard to comprehend? Folks, when the Rapture hits, these guys are SOL.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:09 pmNo God imaginable would find them worthy of a second chance, let alone eternal grace.
Do you think that somewhere there is an executive order which secretly allowed Enron to violate SEC Regulations. These regulations are inplace to protect the investors, so once again the White House trumps the average guy on the streets. I hope eventually the Bushinistas see that the citizens of the US have rights only to the extent that this administration wants them to have rights.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:18 pmThe plot does sicken………
However the general uninformed level of most Americans seems to let it all perpetuate. The people who give a crap are far outweighed by the people who ask no questions, nod their head and move along. Of the people, by the people and for the people????? A collective fire needs to be lit under the collective ass of America.
What will be left for our (my) children?
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
May 17th, 2006 at 12:20 pm(unfortunately this message will not reach those who need to hear it)
Putting the Republicans in charge of your country was about as, how shall I say, responsible, as putting Michael Jackson in charge of your children.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:25 pmIs this really relevant? It seems to relate only to accounting.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:27 pm#38 - Sick.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:34 pmeverytime these companies issued a public filing stating “we are in compliance with the laws” they made a misstatement.
every one of those misstatements creates liability under the securities laws.
further, it looks like they acted in furtherance of an unlawful scheme with, believe it or not, the NSA, which also creates liability
that is why the date of May 5 matters
May 17th, 2006 at 12:37 pmHawt dang! Good reporting!!
May 17th, 2006 at 12:41 pmScum administration. Pure scum.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:42 pmKCinDC
It is relevent as far as news cycle goes. It may allow the telecoms to deny any involvement ending the news cycle, “nothing here, please move along”. In the long run, I think you are correct, the class actions will continue with individual subpoenas brought to the court room.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:42 pmAh, “The Princess Bride”. One of the best movies ever!
(”My name is Inigo Montoya. You tapped my phone. Prepare to die!”)
About this “Presidential Memorandum”, I guess that carries even less legal weight than an Executive Order (which doesn’t appear anywhere in my copy of the Constitution)?
May 17th, 2006 at 12:46 pm40:
That is more or less how I characterise the Republicans on most things. And it isn’t just Bush. I strive to be fair in most things, but I honestly can’t see a single thing the Republicans have done right since Bush came to power.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:50 pmWayne A. Schneider
Agreed, the more I read the memorandum and the applicable SEC regs, the more it seems to be another attempt at curtailing the class action suits. Just like the the attempt two weeks ago of the administration the cut off ACL law suit. Hopefully, these weak lame attempts will continue to be just that and any Judge will see them for what they are.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:55 pmI agree with Hardy, I’d like one of those notes from the Prez so I can lie to the IRS about my taxes and it will be legal. I’d also like to to take to the bank that says they owe my 1 billion with a B dollars in back interest on an account I had when I was a child. I’d also like one to give to a super model that says, she must get 10 of her super model friends to move in with me for life and never leave.
I need a Prez note that says, I own half of the stock on wall street and they have to pay me 1000 percent profits for life. I’d like a not that says, I don’t have to pay for cable, and I get to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, every NBA championship series game, the Indy 500 and all NASCAR races to include a luxury suite with the Presidential Suite reserved at the best hotel in town.
I can’t think of any other fantasies I need a note for, but if I think of them, I’ll let Karl Rove know so he can have Dubya give me a note for them.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:57 pmSpeak of The Princess Bride, I think the Bush administration is eerily similar to the Fire Swamp. There are continuous explosions of marsh gas, and if Karl Rove isn’t a R.U.S. my name isn’t yellowdogfox.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:57 pmI agree with Hardy, I’d like one of those notes from the Prez so I can lie to the IRS about my taxes and it will be legal. I’d also like to to take to the bank that says they owe my 1 billion with a B dollars in back interest on an account I had when I was a child. I’d also like one to give to a super model that says, she must get 10 of her super model friends to move in with me for life and never leave.
I need a Prez note that says, I own half of the stock on wall street and they have to pay me 1000 percent profits for life. I’d like a note that says, I don’t have to pay for cable, and I get to go to the Super Bowl, World Series, every NBA championship series game, the Indy 500 and all NASCAR races to include a luxury suite with the Presidential Suite reserved at the best hotel in town.
I can’t think of any other fantasies I need a note for, but if I think of them, I’ll let Karl Rove know so he can have Dubya give me a note for them.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:58 pmHere’s my take on the denials from Verizon and BellSouth, and why they don’t mean much.
May 17th, 2006 at 12:58 pmOf course this is the Bush doctrine. Lie. Change laws; write new ones exempting yourself and your minions from having to obey the law.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:00 pmTelcos are catching hell for giving info to the govt. - lawsuits - losing customers - stocks dropping.– wait! remember the presidential memo signed by the war criminal himself, Negroponte? He gave them all the OK. So, a week after the story breaks, they are now carefully denying their actions — no fear, Negroponte’s got them covered.
Wow, this Memorandum went through on May 5th? GEE what a coincedence. Why not just create rules and laws to let you break rules and laws? Dam# this government is so corrupt its just a hairline fraction from being outward physically hostile to its own citizens. It’s the logical next step. (kinda like the leading political party in the late 30’s in Germany).
May 17th, 2006 at 1:00 pmTheir denials are too little, too late. The American people smell blood, and more importantly, money. If it means you get $1000 at no cost, it makes defending your civil rights a little bit more worthwhile to the apathetic masses.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:07 pmLet’s face it these are weak attempts at best. The class action suits will not even be scheduled until next year at the earliest. So, with denials from the Telecoms and no new material for news investigation, blip, off the radar. If the administration can curtail the news cycle by even a day it helps the hemorrhaging. Now is the “moment in history” for investigative journalism to make it’s mark, keep digging for new revelations forcing more weaker and weaker GOP bait and switch acts.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:10 pmThe telcos don’t have to tell you nuthin’.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:11 pmSigned,
Epstein’s Mother
If the maladministration does use 15 USC 78m to tell the telcos to STFU about it, they still have to report to the Senate an House intelligence committes thatthey did so every October.
At least that’s the way I read it.
Cheers,
May 17th, 2006 at 1:15 pmWhat are you doing using a word like “telcos”? Sounds a lot like Newspeak to me. Please don’t go down that slippery slope ever again “Brother.”
May 17th, 2006 at 1:17 pmSqueege, Zookeeper: “Inconceiveable!” “I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means.”
May 17th, 2006 at 1:23 pm#2 — It reeks of our AG, Senor Gonzales and/or Herr Rove.
#11 — Roberts, Alito, and now — Brett Kavanaugh for DC Circuit Court. He’s the lawyer who wrote or helped write the 750 signing statements that Bush has used to specify whatever he wants any law to mean or how he wants the courts to regard it.
Now today — the information about the presidential memorandum giving “Death Squad Negroponte” the powers of the president to reverse SEC laws — time to get serious about a non-violent revolt by the Congress and the people. There are a few honorable members of Congress in office. They really must act now!
May 17th, 2006 at 1:25 pmWhen this story first broke, note that the only company that said they refused to comply with the NSA request was Qwest. The lack of a denial to comply by AT&T, BellSouth and Verizon when this story first surfaced shows that they are now lying. Sleazy, servile, corrupt bastards.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:38 pm[…] Think Progress » New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law […]
May 17th, 2006 at 1:39 pm[…] Think Progress » New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law […]
May 17th, 2006 at 1:39 pmTime to cancel your contracts with Verizon, AT&T and BellSouth.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:44 pmAs Stephen Colbert would say, “listen to your gut”, and my gut says there is some type of agreement with the telcos to let them know it is okay to lie about it because of *national security*. Its the only thing that makes sense with the carefully worded statements seeming to deny complicity.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:44 pmThat makes sense, since it took them a few days to come out with their denial.
May 17th, 2006 at 1:59 pmWayne A. Schneider is exactly right. The president can not write and sign legislation without congress. You don’t get to violate the law just because the president says it’s okay. God I hate them so much.
May 17th, 2006 at 2:02 pmYour wrong Danf. No one hates them more than I do. Lie upon lie. Money for the rich w/o regard to the country. They are lower than whale poop on the bottom of the ocean.
May 17th, 2006 at 2:15 pmNo matter how cynical I get, I can’t keep up.
May 17th, 2006 at 2:40 pmMaybe it’s just me, but I don’t actually see a 15 U.S.C. 78m .. etc…
Can someone point this out in the link? thanks
May 17th, 2006 at 2:46 pmhaha this is just what hitler did ….make the illegal, legal
The Republic is dead
enjoy “Survivor” America…
May 17th, 2006 at 2:54 pm[…] So is it possible that the telcos lied on order from the President? ThinkProgress says it’s possible due to a new Presidential memorandum signed on May 5; less than two weeks ago. […]
May 17th, 2006 at 2:59 pmHow does one join a class action suit against a phone company?
May 17th, 2006 at 3:32 pm[…] Or, it’s not a lie when Duhbya and John “death squad” Negroponte say you don’t have to tell the truth. Ordinarily, a company that conceals their transactions and activities from the public would violate securities law. But an presidential memorandum signed by the President on May 5 allows the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, to authorize a company to conceal activities related to national security. (See 15 U.S.C. 78m(b)(3)(A)) […]
May 17th, 2006 at 3:49 pmBush Order Allows Telecos to Lie About Wiretaps…
“…an presidential memorandum signed by the President on May 5 allows the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, to authorize a company to conceal activities related to national security.”…
May 17th, 2006 at 3:57 pmUnfortunately for us and justice, when this administration sees a case headed towards the courts that they know they will lose, they try to find a way to keep the losing issue from ever reaching the courts. They’ll ask the Republican-controlled Congress to take the ability of the judiciary to review something away from them. When it looked like they were going to lose on the Jose Padilla case, they decided to finally haul him into court under other made-up charges because they knew the courts would say they couldn’t keep him indefinitely without charging him with a real crime.
If it looks like they’ll lose in court on this one, the Republicans will pass a law that says the courts can’t review this subject, thus taking away your rights in order to protect a big corporation.
May 17th, 2006 at 4:02 pm(((((…..This is so totally RICO….. Not that it matters. )))))
May 17th, 2006 at 4:19 pmyou folks seem to miss a fundamental reality check.
For a think to be a lie, then there must have been a ‘truth’ that is being contradicted. In the current new world order there is no such notion as a ‘truth’. The notion of Truth was shown to be a part of the Konspirakii to stab our valiant fighting forces in the back. Hence there are no more such nasty things.
There is now merely Loyalty To Great Leader!!! and those who want the Iranian Flying Saucers to return and do what they did on 09/11/2001…. So Ask yourself, do YOU want the Evil Iranian Flying Saucers To Return????
May 17th, 2006 at 4:29 pmPresidential Memorandum? Huh? I wonder if those are legally binding on anybody or if Dubya’s just scaring people into cooperating. Where in the Constitution or in any other statute is the president given this and other authorities he claims that allow him to override everything Constitutional or any law he wants? Surely a loophole that big can’t be out there after all these years. If so, we’d better scream that Congress cut him off at the knees. Any legal scholars out there who know the answer?
May 17th, 2006 at 4:38 pm[…] We didn’t know what it meant, and — the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 not being our first choice for leisure reading — we didn’t take the time to find out. But Think Progress is connecting the dots this morning, and the picture that’s emerging is a pretty interesting one. […]
May 17th, 2006 at 4:48 pm#6
Let’s not forget…
Kenedy County (TX) Sheriff’s Dept., 2/11/06: We’d like to interview VP Cheney regarding the shooting of Harry Whittington.
Secret Service: Sorry. We can’t let you due to national security concerns. Come back tomorrow.
May 17th, 2006 at 5:39 pmWhat a wonderful country we live in where it apparently has become legal, normal and acceptable to lie your f**cking ass off. We have a president who is a habitual liar and now it seems that Buschco is pushing that it’s okay for everyone to lie. Is this a part of “trickle down
Replace Bushco with Clinton and you’ll have your answer!
May 17th, 2006 at 5:47 pmWhen did AT&T issue a statement “denying that they’ve handed over phone records to the NSA”? Only BellSouth and Verizon have done that.
You should correct the entry.
May 17th, 2006 at 5:55 pm[…] A May 5 presidential memorandum “allows Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, to authorize a company to conceal activities related to national security, reports Think Progress. […]
May 17th, 2006 at 6:32 pmFor those claiming the cornerstone of the Bush admin is lying You are correct, and they make no attempt to claim otherwise. They openly admit, many of them, they are deciples of political philosopher Leo Strauss. Strauss’ whole political philosophy is based on lying to the general public. (See Wikipedia for more on Strauss)
May 17th, 2006 at 6:32 pm[…] Think Progress has unearthed a “Presidential Memorandum” dated May 5 that would direct DNI John Negroponte to release the Telecoms from their legal obligation to be truthful in their transactions and activities. The Memorandum was published in the Federal Register and refers specifically to giving Negroponte the authority to waive certain sections of the law for purposes of “national security.” […]
May 17th, 2006 at 7:05 pmGee - too bad Enron wasn’t a real phone company - Kenny Lay could use the air cover right about now.
Amusingly enough, I don’t believe the SEC is bound by such Prexy Pronouncements and they don’t need the assistance of the DoJ to make your life an unending hell. So the senior dudes at the carriers had best be damn careful about misleading the stockholding public, lest they get the hide peeled of in small strips veeery slooowly.
May 17th, 2006 at 7:51 pmIs there anywhere we can obtain the actual memorandum?
I’d love to start informing some people with a document to back me up instead of something from a media source they consider biased.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:21 pmI wonder why most people don’t see the 2 tiered internet for what it really is?
A trophy for spying on the people of the USA and beyond, this is why the arrogance on the side of the pointy heared bosses of the Bells, they feel protected, and probably are from way up there.
In reality this also devaluates the medium called internet, this will cause a lot of unexpected and unwanted side effects, for one thing I think a lot of technical able will get very hostile towards anything that reeks politics.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:22 pmI think most everyone that’s here sees that, the problem is we need to come up with an effective way of getting it out to others and making them care.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:26 pmProblem is that most people are not aphatic but downright scared and not totally wrongly so if you see how john doe is harrassed by swat teams, corporations, churches, community leaders and so on.
Looking at the long term, something that a lot of our subjects here have no idea of, things look different.
The US is about to enter the 4th turning, a period of civil unrest, liberalism and new ideas in many fields.
http://www.crab.rutgers.edu/%7Egoertzel/fourthturning.htm (incl. great chart)
Right wing America can’t do a thing against this, it’s going to happen whether they like it or not.
Why?
You can’t stop generations reacting on each other, that is the beauty of things.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:49 pmUnfortunately, I think it might not come soon enough to stop some of the more traumatic symptoms of change, it doesn’t always come peacefully.
May 17th, 2006 at 9:54 pmAT&T hasn’t made any specific denial as yet.
By the way, I posted earlier today on exactly how the call detail record collection works. Enjoy!
May 17th, 2006 at 10:03 pm[…] Think Progress […]
May 17th, 2006 at 10:04 pmI never said anything civil will happen, it might take a war as one can see in the past.
May 17th, 2006 at 10:15 pmWorst case scenario will be the ununited states of america.
May 17th, 2006 at 10:18 pmThe last civil war wasn’t precisely a pleasant one, I think we should be more focused on what can be done before it gets to that point than letting the country fall apart around us and calling it inevitable.
May 17th, 2006 at 10:27 pmIt isn’t, I agree, but a dictature aint one either.
Also you can only rebuild, even partly, after tearing things apart.
Coming time probably wont become easy for individuals but not that much harder than it is now, and people adapt soon.
In the end there is only 1 solution to prohibit a civil war, that is more than 50% of the people to vote.
The main problems are created because of minority rule, not majority.
Personally I would make it mandatory for people to vote if the median becomes under 50% for 2 or 3 elections, but then I am not a politician, who would have guessed.
May 17th, 2006 at 10:58 pmThe problem with mandatory voting is that with so much of the populace uninformed, theres a greater potential for manipulation of the voting masses that wouldnt’ve voted before.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:38 pmThis is all a bad dream - tell me this is not happening in America.
May 18th, 2006 at 12:55 amWhen do they start gassing the people who “don’t think right”.
They are building the ovens now……
Down with the American Empire. Long live the Republic.
Unfortunate early backspace to GWB and the Neocons (after suitable and appropriate world court trial).
You’re not gonna stop this shit any other way. If you think Dems will ‘win’ in the autumn or that they can make any difference in the BushCo train to hell….. well, you want some mountain property? (actually do have mountain property for sale in NC……)
May 18th, 2006 at 7:06 amNew Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law…
Think Progress.org [US]
May 18th, 2006 at 10:19 amMay 17th, 2006
In recent days, AT&T, Bell South and Verizon have all issued statements denying that they’ve handed over phone records to the NSA, as reported by USA today.
There are three possibilities:
1) The USA Toda…
So does this mean the Decider has also given his permission for them to lie UNDER OATH?
May 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pmAnd following the line of logic that ANYONE could have been given special permission to lie by the Liar in Chief, doesn’t this sort of NEGATE any testimony given at Hayden’s confirmation hearings?
May 18th, 2006 at 1:33 pmCitizen80203 :
I think you are right that this adminstration no longer expects to fully hide their bad acts or ever fully exonerate themselves or their friends, but rather constantly seeks to stop the bleeding cuts and wounds from hemoraging, hoping that time and complexity will save them in the far off future. Here the big Telcoms are just following the delay delay delay policy.
Meanwhile, the vicious destructive America-destroying beast that is this GOP adminstration/congress, can keep rampaging and destroying all the laws and values that stand in its glutonous rapacious way, AS LONG AS no one gets to many hard hacks into any of the wounds
It is ironic that the shear volume of horrible revelations about this administration and the current GOP apparatus may provide enough distraction that they can keep chipping away at their corporatist agenda til the very end, as long as the media refuses to put it all together in a comprehensive package in their reporting. Hell, my local paper today put the the end of the Kenneth Lay/ Enron trial below the fold in the business section, while our local utilities are still charging a 30% premium because of Enron price gouging and contract fraud documented in writing and on taped records.
May 18th, 2006 at 1:35 pmPresidential Memorandum, huh?
Good lordy, seems like Bush could scrawl, “Suck it,” on some Whitehouse stationery and it’d just magically turn into legally sound marching orders.
May 18th, 2006 at 5:58 pmI have written AT&T (we used to use their calling cards, generally when out of the country) and Verizon for cell phones. We threw our AT&T cards away and as soon as our contract is up with Verizon we will switch to another carrier. EVERYBODY needs to write if you think this is illegal. Verizon reads e mails.
May 18th, 2006 at 6:00 pmIt’s not lying in the interest of national security. It’s claiming national security in the interest of lyiing.
May 18th, 2006 at 7:13 pmI’m confused!! Since he signed this May 5, 2006 are they able to retoact the date to the day after Sept. 11, 2001? And why now? Did they know it was going to be public on this issue? Wow…so many questions…no real answers.
May 18th, 2006 at 8:04 pmWhy haven’t any conventional news outlets picked this up? I know they are timid and cowardly but this is a total coup!
May 18th, 2006 at 9:25 pmThe definition of FACISM is: ‘The marriage of corporation and state’ — Benito Mussolini.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:40 pm[…] Think Progress » New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law bush authorizes telco denials (tags: wiretapping) […]
May 18th, 2006 at 11:00 pmI’m killing my home phone. They can go to hell. Now I know why THEY didn’t let Qwest buy Verizon ONE year ago. I’m going to invest in Qwest. Wish they were local.
May 18th, 2006 at 11:31 pmOkay NSA Please don’t shoot me I am reaching for a pencil to write down a phone number okay? No I am not talking to saddam, I am talking to a madam. What? Oh Yea, you know all about that kind of stuff, I forgot, you being such a good customer and all. Okay, now I am hanging up, you say there is a cheaper one downtown, man thanks I am not rolling in money like you guys, oh sorry I didn’t know that was classified information. Hey I got it, I will classify myself top secret then you won’t have to listen to me-that doesn’t make any difference? you guys sure know how to spoil a little grab ass-oh? that’s classified too, which? the ass or the grab? You’re really not much fun at all, okay now I am putting the phone on the hook, yea I know, verrrrry slooowly.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:15 amFues
P.S. A big shout out to AT@T, Bell South, and Verizon, you haven proven to be the champs of the Onerous-and I would like to bestow the Annual Big Mouth Mason Jar aka Big Mo to you as keepers of the flame of truth and integrity-we need more patriots like you
This does not seem to have anything to do with lying
Follow the links. Read the memo, read the SEC regs, and then post here how it has anything to do with authorizing them to lie. At best, it says that if they take money from the NSA they don’t have to write it down if it’s for something involving “national security”–but nowhere does it say that they can lie with impunity.
– MarkusQ
May 19th, 2006 at 12:28 am115 - Question: “Telco, did you take money from the NSA?” Answer, “Yes.” Question: “Telco, what did you do for that money?” Answer, “Nothing.” Or how about this: Telco gets $25M in NSA money for providing lists of your phone records. Money is not declared. Actions are not declared. Balance sheets don’t. SEC says why? Telco says “none of your business, national security.”
Neat trick.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:46 am[…] Fri May 19, 2006 Bright Ideas from Racists (1) Let’s build a fence! And why not? After all, this one has worked so well. However many millions of dollars it will cost will surely be better spent ineffectively keeping immigrants out than schooling the people who are here, than assuring veteran benefits, than researching alternative fuels, et cetera. And by the way, not every illegal immigrant is from Mexico. There are still people who came here in 1950 from Ireland who are illegal. Should we put them on a freighter and send their potato-farming asses back to Dublin? Illegal immigration has become such a racist, anti-Mexican debate, it’s almost uncomfortably funny in its absurdity. (2) The evil, mainstream, liberal media hasn’t bothered to note that Dubya signed an executive order that allows companies to conceal information from the public if the government feels its in the interests of national security. Companies in even deeper cahoots with the government? GREAT idea! (3) You know what else is a great idea? Stopping people in opposing parties from getting phone calls in the lead up to an election. Well, it was a great idea — until the guy who did it got caught. (4) The best idea of the Bush administration has to be the idea of spending $1b on pro-American PR. After all, when you’re fucking someone in the ass, if you tell them that it feels good enough, they might believe you. It’s been working so well! What’s amazing is that no longer do they just hate our leaders or our government; they actually HATE US too. Not that we don’t deserve it. After all, we put the leaders and government we have in power. Brilliant ideas from the brilliant folks on America’s brilliant right. Posted by: evan on May 19, 06 | 11:43 am | Profile [0] comments (0 views) […]
May 19th, 2006 at 11:55 am[…] That’s the critical question. If the phone companies knew about the program for weeks in advance, why did it take them days to deny their involvement? Something doesn’t add up. […]
May 19th, 2006 at 1:02 pm[…] Executive Order Permits Intelligence Director to Authorize Telcos to Lie without Violating Securities Law (via thinkprogress.org) […]
May 19th, 2006 at 2:51 pm[…] Executive Order Permits Intelligence Director to Authorize Telcos to Lie without Violating Securities Law (via thinkprogress.org) […]
May 19th, 2006 at 2:58 pm[…] New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law […]
May 20th, 2006 at 7:52 pmIt is sad that the administration thinks so little of the American public, and our stupidity, they will lie to the press while signing documents posted on .gov sites. Not one of the Big 4, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice, knows how to tell the truth. They either are always doing “damage control” to cover up un-constitutional acts or trying to “spin” a story that sounds good. If they put in half as much time providing good government as they do covering up and lying to the American public, we would not be in the crisis our country faces. Remember they only have 2 more years until retirement and then off to the ranch to write “The Bush Era-How we achieved riches at the American publics expense.” That is if they make it.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:16 amIf it’s not time NOW to do something America….It never will be. Your (our), children will grow to hate you/us for allowing their futures to be so, so trashed and our once Democratic Republic demolished by a runaway wannabe self proclaimed corrupt king without clothes. The 27%-29% “backwash that is left in the glass” will never understand. But the rest of us do.
Run them out of town on a rail…Grab your pitchfork and a torch…IT’S TIME TO MARCH ON DC and get rid of that “Graham Cracker Crust Of Corruption surrounding the chocolate city w/ the marshmallow creme center.”
May 25th, 2006 at 7:58 amWhat this means is that now ANY company workiong on ANY national secrity or DOD contract can cook the books. Think Halliburton paying Cheney without the inconvenience of having to report it, and now, Bush isn’t on the hook for authorizing it; he’s “delegated” that authority to Negroponte.
Forget Princess Bride, think Animal Farm: “Some animals are more equal than others” and 1984: New CIA stooge Hayden’s “Ministry of Love”
Our Declaration of Independence is worth re-reading for all of us who are sick and tired of the same old lies and corruption from BOTH political parties of the United States: “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government” or how about these abuses by the King of England that sound so like what is happening by degrees now: “He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good”; “He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures”; “He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our People”; “For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury”.
The time has come for something to be done. I propose a viable thrid party of thinking, moral and tolerant people. Are you one of those people?
May 25th, 2006 at 9:56 am[…] New Presidential Memorandum Permits Intelligence Director To Authorize Telcos To Lie Without Violating Securities Law. What this article basically says (IANAL) is that in regards to national security matters a corporation can hide (lie) about it’s activities to shareholders. […]
May 25th, 2006 at 10:50 am[…] To complicate matters, and as I first found out from Think Progress, the president may have given the telecoms a “get out of jail free” pass by a presidential memo issued in May. Of course, that memo was issued well after the surveillance began, but it may yet shield the telecoms from at least some civil penalties. I really don’t see how the president can shield the telecoms from their contractual obligations with their customers, though. As an AT&T and Verizon customer, their privacy policy is their contract with me. If they want to change the policy, then they have to notify me. Since they didn’t notify me, then they should be subject to civil suits, no? […]
June 2nd, 2006 at 5:18 pm[…] “In recent days, AT&T, Bell South and Verizon have all issued statements denying that they’ve handed over phone records to the NSA, as reported by USA today…There are three possibilities:…” Click here for the full article, additional links and [to date] 126 comments […]
June 4th, 2006 at 5:54 pmOur congress and senate and house let bush do what is known to be wrong and against our law, and yet do nothing but complain. I feel that complaining will be against the law for national security, or the war on terror. Im sure there is more then your phone number thats being watched your bank card your internet access oh yeah I forgot the PATRIOT ACT.
June 7th, 2006 at 7:19 pm[…] 1. How it works. 2. How the telcos will try to get away with it. 3. Why they’ll fail. […]
August 8th, 2006 at 1:18 pmGive me a break…Is it about lying anymore? There were so many lies in Bush’s CBS interview on the way forward, that even a used car salesman would look like a saint. The ability to lie seems to be necessary to be a surviver in todays corporate market and honesty is something that only the decider and educator, Arbusto (spanish for shrub) aka Dubya, can interpret. Much like history the truth doesn’t matter. Dubya will see what history says 20 years from now.
Anybody with any pride or honesty at all would quietly step down and let someone with more capability fill his shoes. He’s like the drunken guest still hanging around at three o;clock in the morning that should realise that he has worn out his welcome.
January 17th, 2007 at 9:10 pm[…] The memorandum was released 5 May, ostensibly, as Think Progress surmises, because the Administration knew the story was inevitable. I mean, when you’re […]
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