Goss and this so called administration knew what they were doing was illegal, and that didn’t matter one bit to them. They knew they were stepping over the line of ethics by this spying/torture…. and the list grows daily. They knew the FISA courts wouldn’t stand for their antics and grant warrants, so what do you do when you won’t follow the law, BREAK IT, and DENY, DENY, LIE, DENY AND LIE SOME MORE.

Dumbya’s M.O. It is called the Lie/Deny/control method of politics.

Off topic, ever notice that Hayden looks very much like Col. Klink?

I think this is a false statement: “I wasn’t aware of a lot of the activity going on, you know, when it was contemporaneous with running up to the war. No, sir, I wasn’t comfortable”

To MY point, before you hijacked it – the left conveniently forgets the Founding Fathers unless they are busy bolstering their “I-hate-God-in-Public” argument by quoting Jefferson in which he MENTIONS the phrase “separation of church and state”. Most of the time, INGRATE progs are busy bashing the hypocrisy, selfishness, wealth, landed gentry status, etc. of the Founders. The basis of enlightened thinking and the Founders philosophy was the FREEDOM OF MAN – not a hammock for lazy men which progs wish to provide – and thus control. Remember, gentle Prog, progressivism/ socialism/ communism ARE not about sympathy, egalitarianism and/or kindness – those philosphies are hungry for power.

And your dates are wrong – it was 27 April 1861 the first time, then rescinded on Feb 14th 1862 and then again on Sep 24th 1862, finally becoming law on March 3rd 1863. Get your facts right MA.

If they aren’t paid stooges, they are just terribly stupid and believe anything that criminals tell them.

Either way, trolls are so tragic.

When Lincoln suspended Habeus Corpus on April 27, 1862, there was a hue and cry. BUT we recovered from this suspension. After all, we’ve heard those “old, dead white guys” bashed from college campuses (Armando Navarro to Howard Zinn’s Marxist take on the exploitation of the America’s) to anarchist / prog denunciations of ANYTHING American.

Maybe in your circles, “turtle breath” can be a bit of fresh air.

The Democrats on the intelligence committee try to grill General Michael Hayden during the long-awaited CIA nomination hearings (who declines to answer most questions about his domestic spying notions in the open session), while the Republicans simpl…..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/18/AR2006051800823.html?nav=rss_nation/nationalsecurity

“Now, with regard to this particular case, it is possible, Senator, if you want to drill down on an issue and just get laser beam focused, and exhaust every possible — every possible ounce of evidence, you can build up a pretty strong body of data, right? But you have to know what you’re doing, all right?

I got three great kids, but if you tell me go out and find all the bad things they’ve done, Hayden, I can build you a pretty good dossier, and you’d think they were pretty bad people, because that was I was looking for and that’s what I’d build up.

“That would be very wrong. That would be inaccurate. That would be misleading.”

He accuses the Pentagon of setting up this office to be purposely misleading.

If you believe otherwise, you better get right with God (or the GOP)

Comment by TerrytheTurtle — May 18, 2006 @ 11:46 pm

Or also in MA’s case the brains as (s)he has so ably demonstraited so many times….

“I did NOT say Patrick Henry or Benjamin Franklin were “irrelevant to today’s discussion on liberties and privacy?” I did note they lived in times in which one could not possibly have ANTICIPATED the enemy we fight today. ” That’s total bullshit and you know it – when you read the DOI you know you are dealing with revolutionary thinking and with visionaries. And they fought the first successful guerilla war against a modern world power in history.

But thanks, at last a coherent statement. I knew you had one in you.

So if I get this right, you are saying Ben Franklin and and Patrick Henry could not possibly comprehend the threat to the republic, the constitution or liberty by religious fanatics – so their choice to choose death over liberty is anachronistic (big word – look it up if you need to)?

Let’s start with the Founding Fathers understanding of religious fanatacism and the threat it posed to the Republic:

On the Jefferson Memorial we find: “”I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.” – no love for a fanatic there.

“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.” Jefferson – 1813

“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own” Jefferson – 1814

Well the dude who wrote the Constitution seems to know what to do with religious fanatics and what they mean. I would put the current situation in his hands frankly.

“”If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
-James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)

Yup there’s Madison too.

“That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly. ” – liberty is easy to give up if you were lucky to be born to a country that has won it already.
Thomas Paine

So they seem to agree – religion and foreign wars are a direct threat to the liberties enshrined in the Constitution and furthermore, the struggles against foreigners are most likely to lead to totalitarianism at home. Now remember, the US has fought two major wars against totalitarianism in the last century.

And yet you argue that eroding personal freedoms, circumventing the Constitution and putting the executive about accountability (because that’s what you are doing when you argue for ‘no point having civil liberties if you are dead’ as you argue in post #37). ‘Trust the president’ that’s what you are saying. Well you may as well celebrate your new monarchy and then wipe your ass on the Constitution, because you have no further use for it – and guess what, the religious fanatics just won.

Patrick Henry knew what he was saying. You just don’t have the guts to follow his example.

May 18, 2006 — General Hayden’s military conduct not brought up in his confirmation hearings for CIA Director. Gen. Michael Hayden’s confirmation hearing today before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is the second confirmation hearing where his personal conduct as NSA Director has not been addressed, the first being his confirmation hearing to be Deputy Director of National Intelligence. According to a former Air Force officer who worked for the NSA, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and CIA, Hayden was officially reported in 2001 to two Air Force Inspectors General for having an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate female officer. According to the former Air Force intelligence officer, the alleged affair, which the Uniform Code of Military Justice and Air Force regulations would deem as “conduct unbecoming an officer,” took place in 2001 at NSA’s signals intelligence directorate in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina while Hayden was on a visit to the center. At the time, Hayden was NSA Director. According to the former U.S. Air Force intelligence officer, two complaints were filed against Hayden with Col. James Worth of the U.S. Air Force Inspector General’s office and Col. Dennis Lange of the 8th Air Force Inspector General’s office. No action against Hayden was taken by either IG and the matter was quickly dropped. Last year, Army Gen. Kevin Byrnes, the four-star commander of the Army’s Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC), was relieved of command for allegedly having an affair with a civilian woman. Byrnes was legally separated from his wife at the time. In reality, Byrnes was fired for disagreeing with the neocon clique of Donald Rumsfeld. Byrnes was charged with having an “inappropriate relationship” by the Pentagon. In 1997, Air Force General Joseph Ralston was forced to withdraw his nomination as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff after he was charged with having an extramarital affair in the 1980s with a female CIA employee after he was legally separated from his wife. The right-wing were behind the operations against Generals Byrnes and Ralston. The right wingers seem to have a different opinion of misconduct when it comes to someone who is carrying the water for their neo-fascist total surveillance agenda.

May 18, 2006 — General Hayden’s military conduct not brought up in his confirmation hearings for CIA Director. Gen. Michael Hayden’s confirmation hearing today before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is the second confirmation hearing where his personal conduct as NSA Director has not been addressed, the first being his confirmation hearing to be Deputy Director of National Intelligence. According to a former Air Force officer who worked for the NSA, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and CIA, Hayden was officially reported in 2001 to two Air Force Inspectors General for having an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate female officer. According to the former Air Force intelligence officer, the alleged affair, which the Uniform Code of Military Justice and Air Force regulations would deem as “conduct unbecoming an officer,” took place in 2001 at NSA’s signals intelligence directorate in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina while Hayden was on a visit to the center. At the time, Hayden was NSA Director. According to the former U.S. Air Force intelligence officer, two complaints were filed against Hayden with Col. James Worth of the U.S. Air Force Inspector General’s office and Col. Dennis Lange of the 8th Air Force Inspector General’s office. No action against Hayden was taken by either IG and the matter was quickly dropped. Last year, Army Gen. Kevin Byrnes, the four-star commander of the Army’s Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC), was relieved of command for allegedly having an affair with a civilian woman. Byrnes was legally separated from his wife at the time. In reality, Byrnes was fired for disagreeing with the neocon clique of Donald Rumsfeld. Byrnes was charged with having an “inappropriate relationship” by the Pentagon. In 1997, Air Force General Joseph Ralston was forced to withdraw his nomination as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff after he was charged with having an extramarital affair in the 1980s with a female CIA employee after he was legally separated from his wife. The right-wing were behind the operations against Generals Byrnes and Ralston. The right wingers seem to have a different opinion of misconduct when it comes to someone who is carrying the water for their neo-fascist total surveillance agenda.