White House In Disarray: Contradicting Snow, Gonzales Says Bush Opposes Making English The National Language
White House In Disarray: Contradicting Snow, Gonzales Says Bush Opposes Making English The National Language
Today Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said that President Bush “has never supported making English the national language.” But earlier this morning, White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said Bush supported efforts in the Senate to do just that:
As you know, there were actually a couple of amendments that came up yesterday, an Inhofe amendment and also a Salazar amendment. And what has come out of that is a description of English as the national language. And I think — and we have supported both of these. … And I think both of these amendments are consistent with that stated presidential desire.
The text of the amendment Snow said Bush supports:
The government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the role of English as the national language of the United States of America.
Looks like the White House message machine is broken.
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199 Responses to “White House In Disarray: Contradicting Snow, Gonzales Says Bush Opposes Making English The National Language”
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Doesn't HAVA require that voting machines have the capability to operate in other languages?
May 19th, 2006 at 4:36 pmOops, I guess the amendment does state, "Unless otherwise authorized or provided by law".
Sorry,
May 19th, 2006 at 4:38 pmPeter
I thought Tony was going to be in on the policy making -- it was a condition of his accepting the position. So much for the great management style touted by Bushista -- everyone shows up on time and in a suit and tie but nothing else is expected.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:39 pmThey can not print out their talking points fast enough for all the lies they've given birth to. What they have done has caused things to build up so much, and so fast... that it has gotten to the point where each member of the WH is finding themselves having to answer to people all at the same time, without getting the chance to speak with one another.
Makes me think of thugs who have stolen a car. The cops pull them over, and before the cops get to the door, everyone is trying to get their stories straight - but it's too late.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:39 pmforget the saying the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing, neither hands know what they are doing themselves
This is so hilarious
May 19th, 2006 at 4:41 pmBush might as well just give up. He's lost the Latino vote. No amount of pandering, denying, obfuscation, or double-speak is going to placate the Latino voters.
And now he looks like a complete dumbass, with his Prez secretary saying the exact opposite as his lackey AG. NICE....
May 19th, 2006 at 4:42 pmI don't know about the rest of you folks, but it seems to me that at least initially, Snow is off to a pretty rocky start. Or maybe the incompetence in the WH is contagious?
May 19th, 2006 at 4:43 pmSince Chimpy barely speaks english, perhaps his mouthpieces nonunderstood him.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:47 pmSounds like the Bush administration can't even speak English. Will they be exempt from the English-only requirement? Or will they be able to continue to converse in spin.
The "English only" bill is racist, unnecessary, and a poor attempt to invigorate the right-wing vote for November. What happened to "Latinos for Bush" stickers? I guess they only care about them around a Presidential election.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
W ignores the UN once again. Is ti time for the BA to face "serious consequences"?
Right now on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
May 19th, 2006 at 4:47 pm- New SSA:Editorial -
Criminalizing immigrants; how could we be more wrong?
- Only on SSA -
#5 the right hand is playing pocket pool while the left hand is taking bribes. They are too busy being crooks to worry about policy.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:48 pmMy guess is that AG Gonzoles knows that the President does not support English Only legislation, nor does the President support English being the Official language, but legislation stating that English is the National language is what the President supports. I am quite certain that the AG was confused on what the Senate passed
May 19th, 2006 at 4:48 pmAnd they are debating this issue because they have nothing better to debate?
Sheesh... Talk about ass-backward priorities!
May 19th, 2006 at 4:51 pmMy guess is that Rove is too busy with his legal problems to control the spin.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:53 pmWhat HAVA requires is irrelevant. As are voting machines.
This is about culture creep. You're already beginning to see discrimination in hiring practices and pay, with preference given to speakers of Spanish, particularly in law-enforcement, customer service, etc.
We have enough cultural and social issues in this country to deal with in English, without worrying about pandering to recent visitors with the hubris to refuse to assimilate, let alone learn the language.
Let's call this immigration "issue" what it is: a distraction. Nothing more. There have been unenforced & ineffective immigration statues on the books since '86, and of course, '65. The last thing we need is to tear the country apart over another set of immigration "laws" that are bound to be ignored by federal law enforcement, business interests, and those who enter unlawfully.
Ironically, as this country continues to circle the drain, as rights erode, wages are suppressed, and violent crime increases, immigration -- legal and otherwise -- will taper off naturally, as people looking for a better life seek out countries that won't spy on them, expose them to rape and murder, send them over the water to bleed on behalf of nations culturally incapable of democracy.
Shame you can't unflush a toilet.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:54 pmSo if we’re going to make English our official language in order to insure that people assimilate into the American culture, why not take it a step further? Why not ban St. Patrick’s Day, Columbus Day, Kwanzaa, and all other events that celebrate other cultures or any other foreign heritage? It appears that a number of politicians and Americans believe that Mexicans should not to be allowed to openly celebrate their heritage. To my thinking, it simply demonstrates that bias and prejudice are hijacking the immigration dialogue.
read full article here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
May 19th, 2006 at 4:55 pmI'd call the Bush administration a Mickey Mouse operation, but that would be an insult to Mickey.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:56 pmI'd call the Bush administration a Mickey Mouse operation, but that would be an insult to Mickey.
May 19th, 2006 at 4:56 pmSo far, I've only heard progs oppose making English our official language. But some racist elitists leftBATS don't want dis-advantaged illegal immigrants to get ahead by learning English THAT's how you keep the help cheap when you dump your children in their care.....
May 19th, 2006 at 5:02 pmAre they trying to make Snowflake cry again?
May 19th, 2006 at 5:03 pmAh, the Team of Winners is at it again.
Didn't they roll into Washington saying they brought years of successful (sic) corporate management skills with them and that they'd run things efficiently and cleanly?
Hah! The only thing they're good for is impeachment. The Bush Cabal. What a joke they are.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:08 pm[...] Snow vs. Gonzales, via Think Progress [...]
May 19th, 2006 at 5:08 pmThe message machine is fine. It has always been duplicity.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:12 pmI'll bet it's confuzing the shit out of Wolf "XANAX" Blitzer, though...
I love it when insanity is the only thing that makes sense! What a great country we live in! This is better than LSD!
May 19th, 2006 at 5:12 pm25, i dunno about that...but its one hell of a trip thats for sure
May 19th, 2006 at 5:15 pmI think Tony must have shuffled Bill O'Reilley's talking points with Bush's. Easy mistake, bound to happen given the situation.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:16 pmWhat do you expect with Karl Rove knowing he's going to be indicted. All hell is breaking loss. Josh isn't a leader and can't do the job. Tony Snow is so much into his KKK role model that his next speech will be " To Kill A Mockingbird" aka lets get back to what we use to do before slavery. Cheney is being visited by dead soldiers and dead Iraq woman and children. As for George Bush he's drinking all the pain, lies and guilt with the bottle.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:16 pmComparing historical patterns of immigration to today's is a good exercise, Daniel, but you're missing the fundamental difference between contemporary patterns of immigration -- specifically those of Latin America -- and past patterns.
First, there is a fundamental difference between celebrating certain aspects of your heritage -- usually the good ones -- and insisting on retaining your culture in its entirety and expecting others to accomodate you.
Celebrating St. Patrick's day is not the same as refusing to learn English. As for Colombus Day, I personally find its celebration offensive. If you look at it, it's a lot like the Orange Marches in Northern Ireland (Yay! Conquering Invader...). Kwanzaa is an American holiday, created in celebration of African American family and culture.
As for Mexicans, they're welcome, of course. America has a long tradition of taking the best the world's cultures and making them her own. The process tends to weed out the junk, though. When's the last time a paddy (I'm Irish, I can say "paddy") in the US bombed anything -- at least when he was wearing a military uniform.
There's always Cinco de Mayo. If you can't celebrate victory over the French in a minor, mostly irrelevant skirmish, what can you celebrate?
May 19th, 2006 at 5:17 pmComparing historical patterns of immigration to today's is a good exercise, Daniel, but you're missing the fundamental difference between contemporary patterns of immigration -- specifically those of Latin America -- and past patterns.
First, there is a fundamental difference between celebrating certain aspects of your heritage -- usually the good ones -- and insisting on retaining your culture in its entirety and expecting others to accomodate you.
Celebrating St. Patrick's day is not the same as refusing to learn English. As for Colombus Day, I personally find its celebration offensive. If you look at it, it's a lot like the Orange Marches in Northern Ireland (Yay! Conquering Invader...). Kwanzaa is an American holiday, created in celebration of African American family and culture.
As for Mexicans, they're welcome, of course. America has a long tradition of taking the best the world's cultures and making them her own. The process tends to weed out the junk, though. When's the last time a paddy (I'm Irish, I can say "paddy") in the US bombed anything -- at least when he wasn't wearing a military uniform.
There's always Cinco de Mayo. If you can't celebrate victory over the French in a minor, mostly irrelevant skirmish, what can you celebrate?
May 19th, 2006 at 5:17 pmThis is better than LSD That's it #25 The entire White House is On LSD and they are seeing a terriost behind every bush...
May 19th, 2006 at 5:18 pm#31...haha, that would explain Bush's train of thought (or lack there of)
May 19th, 2006 at 5:22 pmDon't these morans ever just see each other in the hall and discuss this shit?
May 19th, 2006 at 5:22 pmDeRito - you appear stuck in a place, and I hope you can get out of it.
No, this is not bias against Hispanics - but it is directed at Hispanics who, when compared to Asians, Middle Easterners, and Africans (the largets crop of immigrants) the immigrant group that not only has the most difficulty in speaking English, they are also eons behind first generation Asians, Middle Easterners, and Africans - most all of whom (from empirical evidence here in NYC) speak English proficently even when their parents do not. In fact that has been the model for every immigrant group for 200 years -- people come for a better life in America, love our institutions and democracy, and demand their children learn English. The culture in America for Hispanics is not to learn English. Proof, I can name 5 people who are THIRD GENERATION "Americans" who spoke mostly Spanish and have a terrible time with English! I have worked with scores of Hispanics who have been in the US for over 5 years who cannot speak English. The radical Hispanic lobby has made it impossible to achieve a higher status in American because somehow speaking Spanish to the exclusion of English is considered a celebration of Heritage! Ridiculous!
My Grandmother: Bohemian (Chech) - Parents spoke no English, she went to school, learned English - they celebrated their culture with food and festivals, they congreated at the huge Bohemian Hall in Queens - still there, gerat beer garden - she was fiercely proud of AMerica, brother joined Army in WWI, she became teacher - active in helping to start pre-curser to PTA, other brother became fireman -- huge American civic pride and activism - model citizen, as were the millions back then. I see nothing but hatred, and ignorance from the current "Hispanic activists" -- what we see does not remotely resemble what immigrants of the past contributed to our great society
May 19th, 2006 at 5:25 pmi'm confused - is the conversation about UK or US english?
the brits must be having a field day with this one....
May 19th, 2006 at 5:29 pmTerrence: Spot on. Sorry about -ran- in the other blog.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:30 pmi’m confused - is the conversation about UK or US english?
Comment by nym@alias.net — May 19, 2006 @ 5:29 pm
It's about Mhuricanish
May 19th, 2006 at 5:33 pmActually nym, the Brits are having the exact same problem, just with a different demographic. If your comment was meant to imply that we have no room to discuss English, since it's somehow "borrowed" from the Brits, consider this: despite the host of differences between American and British English, the pseudodialects remain mutually intelligible.
Further, if you consider sheer numbers as the deciding factor, "proper" English pronunciation would be that found on the Indian subcontinent, as more English speakers are found there than in the rest of the world combined.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:36 pmFlip-flop! Flip-flop!
May 19th, 2006 at 5:48 pmHeck of a job Bolten!!!
May 19th, 2006 at 5:51 pm#31: As I remember, when on LSD you must accept that reality is in itself individualized, and to survive the trip, you must accept that each human sees a completely different reality. The mistake these people are making is that they think they can make up reality as you go along and everybody else will see that world. But the reality they're making up is only for themselves.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:53 pm"Looks like the White House message machine is broken."
Not really. Gonzalez just forgot to "press 2" to get the President's message in Spanish.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:02 pmGodfrey,
May 19th, 2006 at 6:04 pmI was actually thinking about that...one of the greatest gifts I received from the trips I took before during and after college was the wider persepctive I attained....it gets me into trouble nowadays since i get blamed for being the devils advocate too much, or not standing for anything, but often i correct whoever by reminding them that the fundelmental beliefs I have do not change with perspective, and everything else is just a selfish approach for self serving interests...ahh good ole memory lane
Wow. Isn't Snow a bundle of bungling. He's even more fun than his predecessor.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:11 pmNot really. Gonzalez just forgot to “press 2″ to get the President’s message in Spanish.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — May 19, 2006 @ 6:02 pm
Very funny!
May 19th, 2006 at 6:18 pmHumor Me...
Baby Steps
Let's pretend for a moment - that I am a special prosecutor - have an evil doer (for these purposes we will refer to him as Official "A") - by the short ones - on charges of lying to investigators, perjury, and obstruction of justice - all very serious crimes - with someone going to jail - it is not me.
Naturally, Official "A" is an unhappy person - very unhappy - all the money in the world - his good looks - powerful friends - high priced defense lawyers - can't help him beat this rap.
Also pretend - there might be other evil doers on my radar - Official "A-" and Official "A+"- that this special prosecutor - is building cases against as well.
In exchange - for Official "A's" cooperation and testimony - in helping bring these other evil doers to justice - hypothetically - I just might cut Official "A" some slack - on one or more charges - at sentencing.
[More than 90 percent of federal defendants plead guilty. Some do so during the pretrial phase as part of a plea bargain, in exchange for the prosecutors' dropping some charges or recommending a more lenient sentence.]
Naturally - as a special prosecutor (remember, humor me) - I have presented evidence - before a grand jury - on more than one occasion - finding of probable cause for grand juries - necessary to issue an indictment - is a relatively low standard of proof.
Finally - imagine - 12 of the 23 jurors - have already voted to indict Official "A" - consider the proposition - that I might want to keep that information secret (e.g. "sealed") - use it as leverage - to negotiate with Official "A" - and his lawyer - for unconditional cooperation - to bring all the evil doers to justice.
In a perfect world - this would be - swell.
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
May 19th, 2006 at 6:22 pmIt it to late to get your old job back tony?????
May 19th, 2006 at 6:23 pmI agree with Terrence. I think it's to everyone's benefit if people are bi-lingual (or multi), but not having an official language is devisive. It promotes the "us" vs. "them" attitude. How many times has Quebec attempted a secession from Canada? Belgium has its problems too, as I'm sure many bi-lingual countries do.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:28 pmCan anyone say "The Former Yugoslavia?" Of course, their thing has quite a bit to do with ethnic and religious differences, simmering for seven centuries.
So at least we don't have to worry about that, what with our history of racial, ethnic, and religious tolerance.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:38 pmLook, Sing the anthem in English, See..wait sing it in spanish, no umm sing it in spanglish like George, no wait pickles said English, Look Pickles now says whatever George says, see now speak in english, no don't speak english, wait...Look See..War is freedom, occupation, regime change see look it's Freedom, War, no its Democracy..Port Deal what no port Veto whats a veto you mean signing statement look damn paper, Im the War President, See the decider,,but LOOK we can decide no see we can not decide.
I AM THE DECIDER and I think... look, guess see?
May 19th, 2006 at 6:56 pmI think Bush is just covering his butt, again. Once he sees which way the wind is blowing, that will be the 'spokesperson' who got it right. And it saves Bush from making one of those stupid 'explanations', that he so sucks at.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:59 pmWell, I guess this means all of those state mottos in Latin and the states named after Indian words have got to go!
I am sure Bush will rename Massachussetts to Gay-ville or HomoWeddingTown or something like that.
-GSD
May 19th, 2006 at 7:05 pmGSD California is going to have a small problem if they have to get rid of the Spanish names and change them to some form of english(hopefully not W's)
May 19th, 2006 at 7:15 pmAnd BTW not arnolds version either...
May 19th, 2006 at 7:18 pmGonxales is probably right. Bubble boy's goal is to make America Arabic. He's not just holdin hands, he's selling America.
May 19th, 2006 at 7:32 pmIs Tony Snow a loose cannon?
May 19th, 2006 at 8:13 pmneosavage, americans didn't "borrow" anything - more along the lines of slaughtered.
As for pseudodialects, that is a matter of perception. Try that line in a common pub over in the UK... or better yet, on a downtown street in LA.
further, (yes a smack to the unequivical approach in dialog) do not attempt to define my intentions so you can boost your ego, amigo.
strawdogs are a tool, as are their creators.
May 19th, 2006 at 8:44 pmWhat would be the point of making English the national language of the US anyway? I don't think that the white house machine is broken, it is just trying to get back on track. I don't think Snow made a mistake. The goal here might be to try to have it both ways by letting Snow talk to the base and by letting Gonzales send the message that compassionate conservatism still does have meaning.
May 19th, 2006 at 10:08 pmThe campaign for progressive legislation
political forums, links, products
http://www.zazzle.com/maximus7*
May 19th, 2006 at 10:55 pm#33 - i’m confused - is the conversation about UK or US english?
the brits must be having a field day with this one….
Comment by nym@alias.net — May 19, 2006 @ 5:29 pm
thinking the same myself, nym... reminds me of a recent visit with my daughter's roommate's mother, a Brit... she and i sat together, watching our daughters perform in the college concert band - i had to refrain from repeatedly saying "what?", "excuse me?", "say again?" and just nod, hoping my reaction was appropriate... while wonderful to listen to, i was never more aware that we americans do NOT speak "english" than the time i spent with someone who speaks the TRUE english lanquage...
and clif #51 - i found this interesting: "Spanglish" California mocks Senate English push - Fri May 19, 2006 6:45pm ET By Aarthi Sivaraman (Reuters)
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A day after the U.S. Senate proposed declaring English the national language, Californians wondered on Friday what all the fuss was about. Most immigrants embrace English, and Spanish exists happily alongside...
(TP won't let me post the link - that's some sensitive spam filter!)
how sad the bill maher is on break - what to do, what to do??? gone to walk the dog...
May 19th, 2006 at 10:59 pmI'm reading Robert Rubin's book, "In an Uncertain World", and he is talking about his grandparents. His paternal grandfather, Morris, immigrated to the America in 1897 from Russia.
From the book:
This is consistent from what other people have told me. Their grandparents wanted to learn English to not only work, but to lets say become part of the fabric of the American community.
Peace Corp volunteers are teaching English throughout the world, China, Republic of Georgia... it is just odd that while everyone else in the world is trying to learn English so they can improve their economy whether it be tourism or trade, we have been de-emphasizing it, and just letting it side, like many other things.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:12 pm#59.
That story about Rubin is false. I came over on the boat with his grandpappy. The first thing he said when he got off the boat is: "I gotta take a wicked dump.", in Yiddish.
-GSD
May 19th, 2006 at 11:38 pmBreaking News:
Prime Minsiter Maliki confirmed he has finished assembling his cabinet. Maliki announces that next he will stain his buffet and then sand his desk.
-GSD
May 19th, 2006 at 11:40 pmApparently the name Vince Foster is pronounced Dr. David Kelly in English.
http://www.rawstory.com/showoutarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fpolitics.g uardian.co.uk%2Firaq%2Fstory%2F0%2C%2C1779184%2C00.html
-GSD
May 19th, 2006 at 11:45 pmOT: John Aravosis says it's okay to use "girl" as synonym for "coward" if you are gay. Seriously.
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/05/gop-senator-pat-roberts-is-big-girl_19.html
May 20th, 2006 at 12:10 amhttp://everydayactivism.blogspot.com./
The Bush clan are whores for the wealthy elite of Mexico! They have been so for the past 50 years! Bush Senior had Oil deals in Mexico; Bush Junior had Oil deals in Mexico; Jeb Bush married a Mexican lady; Neil Bush makes deals in Mexico; etc.!
They all consider the Mexican poor animals to be exploited for cheap labor! The Mex border will remain wide open as long as Dubya Dunce Decider remains in power!
May 20th, 2006 at 12:43 amTerrance I agree, most other nationalities of immagrants wanted their kids to learn english. The Mexicans do not, they want Mexico to come to the US.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:58 am#64.
So is it OK to call a guya fruitcake if he is effiminate if you are straight?
-GSD
May 20th, 2006 at 1:08 amSo if someone is straight can they call a gay guy a fruitcake?
-GSD
May 20th, 2006 at 1:09 amI'll one up ya George, I'm going to start speaking in my native language, Oglala, you know, the language that existed here before YOUR people came to this country?
I'm quite sure this is another little tactic by bush to draw attention away from everything else!
What a puerile little man he is.
May 20th, 2006 at 1:25 amBushsucks,
The US is going to have to say goodbye to names like Sioux Falls, The Adirondacks, Lake Winnepesaukee and many more with the new English Only campaign.
Thanks for the names, sorry about the land.
-GSD
May 20th, 2006 at 1:28 am#39 - But that long strange trip, of what this country used to be, will never be remembered, or known, by those under 25 (give or take a few years). Oh, I miss the days of normalcy when we had rights and could sleep at night.
I yearn for my peace and privacy again.
Good night and I hope tomorrow is a better day (and the next, and the next, etc.)
You who choose to lead must follow / But if you fall, you fall alone
May 20th, 2006 at 2:28 am#70, I must credit the esteemed Robert Hunter for the last line in my post:
"You who choose to lead must follow / But if you fall, you fall alone"
From the song "Ripple". Words by Robert Hunter. Music by Jerry Garcia.
May 20th, 2006 at 2:36 am[...] White House In Disarray: Contradicting Snow, Gonzales Says Bush …Think Progress, DC - 9 hours ago… Looks like the White House message machine is broken. Doesn t HAVA require that voting machines have the capability to operate in other languages? … [...]
May 20th, 2006 at 2:36 amUNSETTLED? Distraction? How about honesty. Honestly reading these comments is like getting fresh air while treading in a cesspool. Time for my 2nd beer another long swing shift.
May 20th, 2006 at 3:14 amI'm the other way around. My parents spoke three languages, Spanish being the first. I'm first generation here in this damn country, and though they spoke spanish in our home, my siblings and I spoke english. I, on the other hand, am sorry she never insisted we learn HER NATIVE TONGUE!
May 20th, 2006 at 3:16 amFunny we as a culture refuse to learn others languages and then decry them when they do not immediately learn ours...havibg spent 3 years in Germany in the 70's it was remarkable how many germans spoke english and wanted to learn it.
Also it would behove us as a nation to learn the languages of those cultures that the idiots in charge want us as citizen-soldiers invade for their resources...aids in knowingh what is going on.
May 20th, 2006 at 3:30 am#75, Perhaps you should learn to clearly write and convey your message and properly punctuate, in the English language, (that's a parenthetical phrase, in case you didn't know) before you spew the virtues of knowing other languages.
May 20th, 2006 at 4:02 amSo what's the problem if Gonzales says one thing and Snow says the opposite? Bush is famous for telling people what they want to hear and he doubtless told his hispanic AG one thing and his Faux News press secretary another.
And I wouldn't worry too much about Snow being able to get his old job back. He never really quit; it was more of an interdepartmental transfer.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:06 amIt's an old European joke and it goes something like this:
What do you call someone who speaks three languages? -- Trilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? -- Bilingual.
What do you call someone who only speaks one language? -- An American.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:10 amFunny we as a culture refuse to learn others languages and then decry them when they do not immediately learn ours
Comment by Clif — May 20, 2006 @ 3:30 am
You mean the people who go to France, expect English and then get all offended and talk about teh rude French when they are snubbed? Amazing isn't it?
I studied French in middle school, high school and college. By choice. WHen I finally got to Paris, just the word 'Bonjour' was enough to get me full-service direction, usually in English, from nearly any Parisian. At one point I even asked a shop keeper if my French was that bad that the people kept speaking to me in English. He said that it was just that the French wanted to practice their English and from my accent, it was possible to tell I was American. Hardly the rude assholes I'd heard so much about.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:41 ambefore you spew the virtues of knowing other languages.
Comment by English Speaking American — May 20, 2006 @ 4:02 am
STFU. People like you have no friends for a reason.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:44 am[...] Well it looks like George W.Bush who has long opposed making English the country's national language, per, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, is going against his Republican lead U.S. Senate vote in an amendment to proposed legislation overhauling U.S. immigration law and directed the government to "preserve and enhance" the role of English. [...]
May 20th, 2006 at 8:15 amNEWSFLASH: Contradicting Murtha, Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Kennedy, Durbin - well, you get the idea - Lieberman says we are making progress in Iraq.
Of course, that's old news bt today's standards, but then you run across "The Real Iraq" by Amir Taheri at http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/Taheri_0606.htm
Lo and behold, we really ARE making progress in Iraq. How about three cheers for the success of the Bush administration's policy in Irqaq? No? Gee, and I thought TP was devoted to the truth. My mistake.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:22 am[...] Well it looks like George W.Bush who has long opposed making English the country's national language, per, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, is going against his Republican lead U.S. Senate vote in an amendment to proposed legislation overhauling U.S. immigration law and directed the government to "preserve and enhance" the role of English. [...]
May 20th, 2006 at 8:28 amNEWSFLASH: Contradicting John Conyers and other Democrats, Molly Ivins says: "It seems to me pointless to impeach Bush."
Not only pointless, but wrong.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:29 am[...] Well it looks like George W.Bush who has long opposed making English the country's national language, per, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, is going against his Republican lead U.S. Senate vote in an amendment to proposed legislation overhauling U.S. immigration law and directed the government to "preserve and enhance" the role of English. [...]
May 20th, 2006 at 8:32 amNEWSFLASH: Contradicting Al Gore, Time Magazine calls "An Inconvenient Truth" a clueless presidential "campaign ad." The key graph:
The movie offers few clues. It is, essentially, a two-hour PowerPoint presentation, enlivened — if that's the right word — by periodic shots of Al Gore staring pensively out of plane windows, Al Gore frowning contemplatively at computer screens, and Al Gore pacing thoughtfully through airport terminals. The man could make playing a kazoo look like meditation.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:37 amThis is only in part a response of Blue State Red.
What we need is a database, a list of names of Democrats and other opposition party members who have rolled over for the Republicans.
We need to see which politicians have bent, and on what issues, so that we can say who in the Democratic party needs to be kicked out, and which districts should go independent, because there is no point in voting for a lapdog.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:40 amNEWSFLASH: Contradicting TP, David Shuster and Chris Matthews, former NSA Director Admiral Bobby Ray Inman says that "the person in Patrick Fitzgerald's bull's eye is [former Deputy Secretary of State] Richard Armitage." Not Karl Rove.
Read and weep it here: http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/002719.html
Sorry, TP - looks like you struck out again.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:45 amWhat we need is a database, a list of names of Democrats and other opposition party members who have rolled over for the Republicans.
We need to see which politicians have bent, and on what issues, so that we can say who in the Democratic party needs to be kicked out
It is a more than a little ironic that this post is made as part of a thread criticizing members of the Bush administration for disagreeing with one another. Apparently the Left's instinct for silencing dissent and opposition has not changed much from the days of Uncle Joe Stalin. Lists? Kicked out? How in the name of the First Amendment did the Democratic Party ever stoop so low?
May 20th, 2006 at 8:51 amBlue State Red
Ummm lets put it this way, there is a difference between rolling over and disagreeing with the party line. The former is an act of cowardice, the latter an act of courage. Besides which, if you can be relied upon to vote pro Republican more often then you can be relied upon to vote pro Democrat, why join the Democrats?
Oh, and just at a BTB, I don't particularly support the Democrats for November, I think they have acted like a bunch of wussies, and need a stern wakeup call from their base. I say, vote independent. Vote for the guys you want in, not the guys you will settle for.
May 20th, 2006 at 9:06 amnym.
Hey, didn't mean to ascribe motive to your posts. Re-read mine, don't see where I did. Don't know if you were kidding, or what.
It took me awhile to grasp that you meant slaughtered English in figurative terms. As for slaughtering the English in literal terms; how can anyone complain about that? Fair play, wot?
Maybe it's too early on a Saturday. I disagree with you though. The butchery of the English language continues unabated on both sides of the Atlantic, particularly amongst those failed by education (30% and growing in the US -- good work NCLB!!! Can you tell I'm a frustrated teacher?).
As for taking that line to common pubs in Brittain -- I was disappointed whilst there to discover that unless the conversation revolved around footie, or that day's The Sun, there really wasn't much conversation. In fact, I remember my hosts laughing when I asked what time The Times was delivered. Ironically, I was able to have many more substantive (god, I want to smack myself for using that term) discussions in Irish common pubs. At least in the west and midlands.
No comment on LA.
If you read my posts to this thread, the arguments, in reverse order, go:
#47 - Sociolinguistic balkinization leads to political balkinization leads to very bad things.
#36 - There's no legitimate claim that any form of English but that spoken in Britain is "bad" English. All forms of English are more or less mutually intelligible, with some important variations in diction and vocabulary. Hence, pseudodialects, as while it may occasionally be a bit of struggle to understand each other, there is no true linguistic speciation. That was the reason I mentioned India/Pakistan -- if you want to ascribe ownership of English, place it there, with the overwhelming majority of English speakers.
#27 (&28) - Immigration good. Assimilation good. Assimilation of other cultures' best traits makes America strong. Nonassimilation bad. Columbus Day bad.
#14 - (And I've seen this starting to pop up recently...) This entire immigration debate is a sham, designed as yet another to split the populace into voting in one of two directions. The terminal "divide and conquer" technique the Democrats and Republicans have used for the better part of a century to keep themselves (the two halves of the power structure) in power.
The good news is, division of this issue seems to happening within the parties. It would be great if it contributes to the replacement of both with parties not beholden to extreme wacko wings of both sides. Remember the Whigs and Tories? Me neither. It's time to consign our current stalwart parties to the dunghill of history, and start fresh.
By the way, why do some many of these posts degenerate into personal attack, real or perceived? That's no way to have a debate. Oh, right, that's the only way debates are conducted these days.
May 20th, 2006 at 9:29 amThat's because Bush suspects that the Senate passed that English language law with him in mind.
Btw, Mo Do takes her usual saturday morning swipe, this time at McCain for this very same thing. Good reading, as usual.
May 20th, 2006 at 10:12 am"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers."
---Aristotle
May 20th, 2006 at 10:22 amLooks like BSR has gotten the talking points delivered from the hone office and is on a talking point rampage.
BSR takes one press story about Bobby Ray Inman and decides that leaked story is the most important one to be found.
As to Iraq, some of the developments that the Bush Admin. isn't crowing about.
*Ayatollah Sistani declared a fatwa on gays and now gays are being killed and persecuted(Although this is considered a good development by the Pat Robertson wing of the Republican party.
Iran and Turkey have been shelling Kurds in northern Iraq.
Ethnic cleanisng is taking hold in large areas of Iraq.
Christians are being run out of Mosul.
The US is sending more troops into Iraq to deal with restive Ramadi. Once the troops arrive in Ramadi, the insurgents will leave and go to a new town. As Scott Ritter said. "The US is squeezing jello in Iraq".
Afganistan and Pakistan are in a war of words over the whereabouts of Osama.
Aghanistan has seen the largest battles and bloodshed since the Taliban were supposedly run out of the country.
In Guantanimo Bay prison, a group of prisoners staged an ambush style attack on US guards causing mayhem and injuries.
Iran is thumbing the US in the eye and is recieving backing from Russia and China.
-GSD
May 20th, 2006 at 10:44 amnotice that BSR did not post LINKS, legitimate links, to most of his assertions? wonder why?
assertion: n. Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:31 pmWhat do we have to say about anything they always end up getting everything thier way. When are people going to wake up and see where the shape america is in .NO friends in other counties Poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. Speaking what is the last thing people should be worried about.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:32 pmBSR is a paid Bush stooge > nothing more or nothing less! Dubya Dunce Decider is a criminal, but those who support him, or paid to defend him, will continue to do so NO matter what he does!
May 20th, 2006 at 12:36 pmLet's see, we've gone some 200 years without naming English as our official language. Now, in the context of a debate about immigration, putting up a fence between the U.S. and Mexico and posting the National Guard to protect our southern border only, we suddenly must pass legislation establishing English as the national language.
Were the founding fathers remiss in not naming a national language? And why English? After all, some would have us believe the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were founded on the Ten Commandments. If that is the case, shouldn't Hebrew be our National Language? Others would say this is a Christian Nation: thus Aramic should be the National Language.
A law declaring English to be the National Language panders solely to racist/nationalist feelings further dividing the populace without any real effect. Why no real effect? Because of those pesky "equal protection" clauses in the 5th and 14th Amendments.
Of course, with One-Party Rule, Congress and the Administration could always strip away federal jurisdiction to hear cases involving the National Language.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:41 pmThe culture in America for Hispanics is not to learn English. Proof, I can name 5 people who are THIRD GENERATION “Americans†who spoke mostly Spanish and have a terrible time with English!
What about those of us whose ancestors came here in 1598, 1603 and 1605? We settled the southwest before this was the US. We are the descedants of the conquistadores and we have been here for 400 years. My grandfather was a 14th generation New Mexican, and he could neither read nor write English. What would you do with folks like this? There are many more in our state, Chicanos, whose families came in way before that Mayflower hit the shores of New England. They speak nor write English. They are AMericans, by a long shot. I myself am 16th generation New Mexican. My own family came across the Camino Rael in 1603 and settled the grant west of Albuquerque.
Did you all know that the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guarantees this too us? When our states were annexed into the US we were guaranteed the right to continue in Spanish. I guess since maybe we were here first. We have land grants (my own family's is still intact) granted by the King of Spain when this was Spain. The Treaty recognized those. THe NM State Constitution is written in both English and Spanish for a reason. This state is so diverse that we print up documents in English, Spanish, Vietnamese and Dine (that is Navajo) tell me how un-American that is. I tell you this English only stuff is a red herring. Nothing but a distraction on the real issues of the day. I hope we don't get sidetracked once again. For shame.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:49 pmwow - it would sure make more sense if the trolls actually READ the things they link to... the molly ivans piece, for example, in part:
...As we all know, things can always get worse, and often do. I rather think it's going to be up to the Democrats to hold the metaphoric hands of this crippled administration until it limps off stage. The Republican National Committee has a new scare tactic for the faithful: You must give to the party, or else the Democrats will spend the next two years investigating the administration (horror of horrors).
Those who recall the insanely trivial investigations of the Clinton years may indeed regard this as the ultimate waste of time and money (as even Ken Starr concluded, there never was anything to Whitewater), but in fact it could be a therapeutic use of the next biennium. In fact, the offenses are not comparable.
Suppose we really did stop to investigate why and how and who is responsible for the lies, the deformed policies and the inability to govern of this administration. There is a wealth of lessons to be learned about the dangers of ideological delusion and of contempt for governance.
Trouble is, the world is not apt to hold still for two years. It seems to me pointless to impeach Bush. In the first place, the Republicans so trivialized impeachment into partisan piffle, it would look like little more than payback. In the second place, I believe Dick Cheney is seriously off the rails; apparently deeply paranoid -- let's not put him in charge.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:52 pm...
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/36430/
and some of you are right. I do get paid more for being bilingual and fluent. As did my father, who is considered an expert in the Spanish language. However, I learned Spanish as a child and should be compensated for this. I also know Anglos who work where I do who are also compensated for speaking Spanish, because they are fluent speakers. Some speak better than my children.
Many anglo folks in our state ARE VERY BILINGUAL. THEY SPEAK WITH NATIVE TONGUE. It is beautiful to see this. I have anglo friends who can not only cuss you out in Spanish, they can hold a conversation with my grandparents and parents with no problem. I have black friends who grew up with us, guess what, they speak Spanish too. Yep cuss words and all. And they speak Spanish beautiful. I am glad they were raised in NM, they see being able to speak both languages as an asset as do I. I get paid for being educated too. What the hell is the difference?
We grew up knowing we were Meztizo-Chicano, and proud of our heritage. However, we are just as American as you, considering our families have been HERE for 400 years. Albuquerque just celebrated it's 300th birthday. Our family was here 100 years before that. We are American. We speak Spanish and we will continue to do so. You cannot take our language from us. This is America and we have many different, diverse cultures. This is one big mistake.
May 20th, 2006 at 1:06 pm#75, Perhaps you should learn to clearly write and convey your message and properly punctuate, in the English language, (that’s a parenthetical phrase, in case you didn’t know) before you spew the virtues of knowing other languages.
Comment by English Speaking American — May 20, 2006 @ 4:02 am
WTF?? What the hell are you talking about? Wrap your ignorant mind around this FOOL: EVERY WORD IS ADAPTED FROM LATIN OR GREEK
May 20th, 2006 at 1:13 pmThanks Freebird, I think you made it very clear that it's a hogwash!
May 20th, 2006 at 1:27 pmNew Mexico is beautiful. Is Dave's Not Here still in business?
#106 SKdeA
Last I heard Dave's was still in business. However, I am not in Albert Turkey right now. I am based (work) down in the SE part of the state near the oil patch. Yes, NM is so beautiful. I was born here and will die here. They will bury me on the land grant.
My state is my corazon. However so is my country. I will fight for all it stands for, diversity, being only one part of that. I am ready to take my country back from the neocons, won't you all join me?
"Give me your tired....but only if they speak English???" I think not.
Soy Chicana, soy Nuevo Mexicana, pero primero soy Americana.
May 20th, 2006 at 2:14 pm#105 - madashell,
May 20th, 2006 at 3:00 pmWhat abour sampan, canoe, igloo, teepee, soy and tsunami?
Who's saying that there is not a such thing as Mexican Americans Freebird?
The point is, if you want to live in America learn to speak english or get out. No matter what country you're from.
I shouldn't have to spend a half an hour of my time trying to get a roll of toilet paper from the maid when I stay in a Hotel because the maid is too stupid to comprehend english.
I shouldn't have to learn 15 languages just to get along in my own country.
I wouldn't dream of moving to Germany without learning the language first or at the very least siign up for classes the minute I arrived.
Quit coddling these lazy non english speaking people. They are a burden on our society.
May 20th, 2006 at 3:44 pmStupid Republicans
Much as though I am pro a single language from purely practical reasons, I wouldn't accuse people who have not learned that language of being either stupid or lazy, because while I am bi-lingual (I can read and write Afrikaanse, though not very well) and have a smattering of spoken Zulu and Xhosa, they could just as easily turn around and call me stupid and lazy for not knowing theirs.
Keep the argument practical, don't degenerate into personal insults.
May 20th, 2006 at 3:51 pmKaty, #103,
There is a point to impeaching Bush, but it would have to be done jointly with Cheney: to show the world we can take care of our own; that We The People do not agree with Bush, the Commander in Chief; that we can, and will, clean house.
May 20th, 2006 at 4:06 pmkaty 103
As another reason; Not impeaching him would set a precedent. Future American presidents will look back at Bush, and note that while he broke the law, basically raped the constitution, and took America into 2 wars and to the brink of WWIII, nobody did anything to stop him. They will see him as an example, of just how far an American president can go without being kicked out of the Whitehouse in disgrace.
Every time he claims that he is above the law, and he doesn't get slapped down for it, strengthens the hand of a future American dictator, who will push just that little bit further. You need to impeach him, to show that he will be held to account for his actions, otherwise, what will you do when another Bush comes?
May 20th, 2006 at 4:18 pmThe second -- and current -- President Bush suggested yesterday [May 10, 2006] that his younger brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, would make a "great president."
May 20th, 2006 at 4:26 pmI have a brother-in-law who is Vietnamese and used to be a professor at a San Francisco area univeristy. He speaks beautiful English, which he learned while growing up in Viet Nam during the war. His favorite word is "bullshit," which is one of the reasons I like him so well. I believe it was in the 80s when he did a study of immigrant families and learning english. Basically, he found that most first generation immigrants learn enough English to get along, even if they are not fluent, but that almost 100% of their children learned English and spoke it fluently.
This language/immigration thing is one of those "change the subject" topics that Republicrooks drag out when they're worried about the next election. I expect to soon see the flag burning topic trotted out. After the election all of this will fizzle out -- you'll see.
May 20th, 2006 at 4:54 pmFirst of all, isn't incompetent establishment and White House in disaray redundant? Does the Attorney General have his own spokesperson? And when we the educated class learn that you just can't use the word never in public.
May 20th, 2006 at 4:54 pmThank you for your attention Bruce Gorton but I stand by my comment. Anyone who choses to relocate to a foriegn country and does not make an effort to learn the language is stupid and lazy.
I do agree with you on the Impeachment issue. If the demcrats don't impeach, they prove they are spineless.
If come Nov. the Dems show that they have no intention of impeaching, I won't waste my time going to the polls. I'll just suck it up for another 2 years and hope that Fitz will put every Republican in jail.
Meanwhile, I will be searching for an independent who has the ability to kick ass in 08.
Another thing, people are awfully sensative these days when it comes to the use of words. Republcians call you a conspiracy theorist and you back down and cry. I cant a recall a single time in my life when a word actually caused physical pain.
May 20th, 2006 at 4:55 pmPlease people, grow a spine already. Bubble boy has preyed on your weakness long enough.
I shouldn’t have to spend a half an hour of my time trying to get a roll of toilet paper from the maid when I stay in a Hotel because the maid is too stupid to comprehend english.
I think going to the front desk would have sufficed, would it not? Maybe if the employers would pay more than minumum wage to clean rooms, Americans who won't do those jobs, would take them. Have you ever cleaned rooms? I have many moons ago when I was a young adult with young children. I was not college educated at the time. It's hard work. HARD. Survival is survival. You would condemn someone for working a job to support their family?
Recently I stayed at a conference at a upscale hotel in Abq. NM. Other than the bartender and the desk clerks everyone spoke Spanish. No problem for me. I am able to get what I need. I even leave tips for maids. I have been there, I know the hard work they are doing. However, would it not have sufficed if you called from your room and asked the front desk to send the maid with the toilet tissue? They would have sent the maid, who spoke no English, with it. It doesn't take rocket science to know that when she showed up with it, you would know what the hell she wanted. No words necessary. I am sure she would have understood "Thank you".
However since no one else will do those jobs and these corporate owned hotels don't want to pay, that is what you get. FINE and IMPRISON THE EMPLOYERS WHO BREAK THE LAW, NOT PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO EAT AND STAY ABOVE GROUND. SOME CHRISTIAN NATION (SARCASM INTENDED).
is too stupid to comprehend english. I think someone who would spend a half an hour trying to talk to someone who you cannot do so with is the stupid one.
Why would you degrade someone when you have no idea why she hasn't learned. You don't know she's stupid, but resorting to ad hominem attacks is the modus operandi of those who think like you.
Thanks but no thanks. I love America diverse and I love America the way it was before the neocons took control. Y voy a ablar en espanol cuando yo quero. Si no le gustes, no es mi problema. Our state will not change for this. What ever happened to States rights? The Repubs used to favor that? Oh I forgot they are conservative and believe in states rights only when it is banning gay marriage or abortion.
IN NM this will not fly. Too many of us "mexican-American" families have been here far longer than those whose families hit the shore with the Mayflower, we will not give in without a fight. We won't lose our Herencia (heritage).
By the way, do you live in a border state, like I do? Or are you voicing your all knowing opinion from say, Ohio or somewhere like that?
May 20th, 2006 at 5:42 pmMost of the illegal immigrants in this country are from Mexico. Mexicans seem to be strongly Catholic. No surprise they see nothing wrong with breaking the law.
Coming into a country illegally is breaking the law. Coming in legally and then staying illegally is breaking the law. To hold up a sign that says they are not criminal is wrong. They are criminals. If they are religious people who believe in the Bible, shouldn't they do what it says? I would think so. Well, it says to obey the laws of the land. They need to be held accountable.
Immigration is a good thing. Many of us come from families where, long ago, there was immigration. It was done the right way. If that right way was different at that time is irrelevent. We have a system of laws that must be adhered to. If this very important set of laws is deemed by our lawmakers to be not worthy of adherance, how can they expect ANY to be worthy? How can they expect respect for the law from citizens if they have none? I don't think they can.
I think this issue is that simple.
May 20th, 2006 at 5:57 pmIllegal immigration is illegal. Illegal immigrants are criminals. We have laws to deal with criminals.
As someone who was baptised a Catholic and grew up an Atheist, I take a certain degree of exception to that statement.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:18 pmFreebird:
No problem, Spanish in NM is safe. NM is an officially bilingual state (it's written into the state constitution if I'm not mistaken). So bilinguialism in NM falls under the "as already guraanteed by law" of the new statute. People who take pride in only knowing one language are simply fools, especially when they actually don't know that langauge particularly well.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:19 pm#122: A certain degree of exception? OK. But you can't refute it either, can you.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:24 pm#114 Briseadh na Faire, and #115 Bruce Gorton -
just wanted to be sure that you both understand that my post at#103 was a "copy and paste" of molly ivans' column at alternet as a response to a post by BSR#84...
AND that i am a firm backer of impeaching this criminal president and his whole cabal...
i have read many prominent dems speak out lately against impeachment, trying to tone down that rhetoric - even john conyers (o my no!) - and i suppose it is to counter the rove/mehlman talking points that dems only want to win elections so that they can impeach (of course not ONLY)... who knows...
i say "yea, HELL yea - we plan to impeach their sorry asses to hell and back!"
May 20th, 2006 at 6:25 pmTo find out how I REALLY feel, click on ny name.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:25 pmComment by Frankly, my dear, ... — May 20, 2006 @ 6:19 pm
You are very correct Sir. It is written into our Constitution and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guarantees us that right also. I realize that this is just a ploy to take from the issues facing our country and play to a right wing base. But it is an affront to those of us who are of Hispanic descent.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:26 pmi say “yea, HELL yea - we plan to impeach their sorry asses to hell and back!â€
Comment by katy — May 20, 2006 @ 6:25 pm
I second that!!
May 20th, 2006 at 6:34 pmI dont care what language is used by the US government and politicians as long as they speak THE TRUTH and stop lying...even "Martian" would be acceptable.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:31 pmI forgot to add: George Bush no speak ah Ingles to good and it don't keep him from been "el rey del mundo" ...I guess you can bullshit in any language...if people are dumb enough to go along with it.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:38 pmQuit defending the illiterate Freebird. When you do you are defending republicans too, which makes you a hypocrit.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:48 pmsounds like wwwwallace is back...aka murkin parrot...
now, using "Stupid R." as another guise? old tactic...
at least i HOPE that's not you Stupid R. @ #134
May 20th, 2006 at 7:58 pmYes its me Katy, just because I don't like Bush doesn't mean I like stupid lazy people living in our country.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:06 pmCan't you people have an a opinion of your own at least once in awhile. You are becoming sheeple in reverse.
Next, you people are going to demand that I like Lieberman and Biden. Aint gonna happen.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:07 pmQuit defending the illiterate Freebird. When you do you are defending republicans too, which makes you a hypocrit.
Comment by Stupid Republicans — May 20, 2006 @ 7:48 pm
And this post speaks for itself. I don't give a shit whether people like my views. They are mine. But I don't condone treating people-any humans-like trash.
Hypocrites my friend are those who proclaim to be "born again" and "doing the work of Jesus" and in the same breath demeaning those who are less fortunate/illiterate/the have nots. That is a hypocrite.
May 20th, 2006 at 8:14 pmwell, stupid r. - add you to my list of those to ignore...
May 20th, 2006 at 8:27 pmintollerance and bigotry are such UNattractive traits...
take is somewhere else, if you can't get rid of it at all...
Quit defending the illiterate Freebird. When you do you are defending republicans too, which makes you a hypocrit.
Comment by Stupid Republicans — May 20, 2006 @ 7:48 pm
And when you learn to spell, you can become part of the spelling police for the illiterate. Sound fair?
May 20th, 2006 at 8:35 pmCan’t you people have an a opinion of your own at least once in awhile. You are becoming sheeple in reverse.
Comment by Stupid Republicans — May 20, 2006 @ 8:06 pm
Look who's talking - the whiner who didn't like my original thoughts... how hypocritical of you. Just start bleating Stupid. If anyone is a sheep it is you.
May 20th, 2006 at 9:55 pm(...)because the maid is too stupid to comprehend english.
Comment by Stupid Republicans — May 20, 2006 @ 3:44 pm
Use your superior intellect.
Be proactive and diligent.
Learn Spanish.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:24 amNah. I would much rather play the "no comprene" game like they do. I think ALL illegal invaders to our country should be shot on sight. No trial. No deportation. Just any caliber right between the eye's and GUESS WHAT? PROBLEM SOLVED!
May 21st, 2006 at 12:35 amJust any caliber right between the eye’s and GUESS WHAT? PROBLEM SOLVED!
Comment by American Patriot — May 21, 2006 @ 12:35 am
Under current US law, illegal immigration is not punishable by death -although I am aware that death, torture, gore, and murder are the stuff that makes up a good conservative's wet dreams.
Shooting illegal immigrants on sight? In restaurants, bars, malls, schools, supermarkets, construction sites? On the streets, in amusement parks, in their homes, in farms, out on the fields? Adults, children, men, and women?
Don't forget that, according to GAO and the INS, some 40% of those ilelgal aliens are visa overstayers. You won't be shooting brown people only -I know you will be disappointed.
Go ahead "American Patriot", let your gory fantasy loose.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:13 amAmerican Patriot
Actually, I can refute it. Most catholics I've known are fairly law abiding people who don't take their religion all that seriously. Also, just as a point, their religion is in real terms no different to the Protestant churches' religion, its all the same shit just with different people taking the donations.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:02 amGregor, let me guess. YOU or someone in YOUR family is here illegally. It has nothing to do with the color of someones skin dumbass. Quit trying to turn this into a racial thing. Our ELECTED leaders were sworn into office to protect us from foreign invaders. ILLEGAL immigrants, whether they overstayed their visa's or not STILL MAKESTHEM HERE ILLEGAL. They DESERVE to be gunned down by our military and law enforcement. Quit being such a drama queen with your "gory fantasy" shit. Grow some balls and protect the country you pretend to love.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:11 am#140 - What you describe is typically called a hypocrite. Your comparison to the catholics and prtestants just show your ignorance for what these people stand for. They use their "religion" as a crutch. An excuse. It just furthers their hypocracy.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:14 amI seemed to have touched a nerve with you. ROFLMAO!!! Are you here ILLEGALLY? Is your mamasita? Well, you both deserve to be shot. Deal with it. Do some research on Ellis Island and see what the REAL immigrants had to go through to enter America. Perhaps we need to check YOUR email address to see where it's registered and send "La Migra" over to your overcrowded house. Adios amigo!
May 21st, 2006 at 10:23 amAmerican Patriot
Take your KKK rhetoric and shove it up one of your asses, whether it be the one on your head, or the one on the other end, doesn't particularly matter to me. Catholics still have the same dietary requirements as Protestants and they still believe in exactly the same imaginary god as the protestants. On religous matters, the two groups are basically exactly the same, the only great difference is that the Catholics follow the Pope.
It isn't even a remarkably different Bible that Catholic Bible thumpers thump, or a different Jesus.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:46 amGee Bruce, you continually show just how syupid you really are. KKK rhetoric? I don't believe I ever mentioned anything racial in my post so I don't know what your babbling about. And as far as the religious differences you state, well, you really need to brush up on your knowledge there too. Your ignorance is amazing. PLEASE don't tell me you're allowed to drive a car.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:51 amPost 141 > Many Americans have forgotten that their ancestors had to be processed thru Ellis Island to enter the United States. Their names were recorded, and nation of birth, and they were checked for contagious diseases too. Those who cross the Mexican border are unknown who they are and no one knows if they have any diseases either. In fact Tyson Chicken corporation could be grinding them into sausage meat and nobody would know, because their names have never been recorded as entering the U.S. Makes me think that corporations may be using some as slave laborers in underground sweatshops and then burying them in a landfill when they are worked to death?
May 21st, 2006 at 10:51 amCorrection I mean post 140 not 141 > error!
May 21st, 2006 at 10:54 amjust heard on face the nation...bob scheiffer's commentary at the end asked "why did the senate take up this english language issue? ...because it gave them something to do to avoid working on REAL problems..." (paraphrasing, of course)... but you/we knew that...
May 21st, 2006 at 11:00 amspoiting should be spouting. Its kinda cold out here.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:07 amgee, murkin parrot #138 - protect our country from what? the gardeners, hotel staff, farm workers, construction labor and such? all underpaid no doubt... just what country are YOU "loving", cause it sure doesn't sound like my USA!
that's all for you, wwallace...
May 21st, 2006 at 11:08 amGood job Bruce. You AGAIN show your ignorance. When you can't hold your balls in a discussion, you resort to insults. Your president taught you well.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:17 amAmerican Patriot
Well, seen as you have produced no facts to back your argument, I saw no reason to not call you an asshole.
It was after all, merely calling it as I saw it.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:22 amWow, a person does not like iilliterate, illegal criminals (yes, criminals just like Bubble boy) who bring down the standard of living and the left goes nuts.
Get a life already. Hey katy, for the record, just because the illeterate have jobs doesn't mean they do it right.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:27 amLike somebody said earlier, if a non-english speaking maid cannot hand a guest a roll of toilet paper then one must go to the front desk to get it. That means the maid is not doing her job. It is her job to provide room service. For normal people, toilet paper falls in the category of room service.
You TP regulars are suceeding in making me see why the pugs call you spineless. You have a lot of nerve to address me the way you do. At least the peiople I am surrounded by did not elect Bubble boy. You red state liberals are politically imbred, yuk.
Hey stupid republicans, I will never be a criminal like you but I'm getting where you're coming from when you talk about liberals being spinelss. Oh god, you people are making see things I never thought I'd see.
Hey, maybe some of you people are personally responsible for Bubble boys poll numbers increasing.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:34 amBurce, do you mean FACTS about ILLEGAL immigrants being in America ILLEGALLY? Well, I think that ones been proven. OR do you mean about what YOU said about Catholics and Protestants being the same? Well, anyone with at least a third grade education knows there's a huge difference. So you show your ignorance YET AGAIN. Good job. I bet you make your parents very proud.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:46 amAmerican Patriot
List the Protestant beliefs. Actually go out, take a survey, and list what protestants actually believe. Now do the same for Catholics.
Its all very well saying "Well we are sooo different to them" but actually putting a list together?
You believe in the same god, the same Bible (though differing translations) and the same basic ten Commandments. The Pope doesn't like condoms, but really nor do most Evangelicals. You even have the same basic stances on Abortion, abstinance (which actually contravenes the very first commandment, read the book of Genesis some time, its in there) and adultery.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:08 pmBoth sides have the concept of original sin, which the Jews figure died out a few thousand years ago but got replaced with a whole bunch of new ones.
Both sides teach the sermon on the mount.
While at one point, the protestant work ethic (as promoted by the Puritans) was restricted to protestants, over the years it has spread over to the Catholics too. A Catholic doesn't like being called lazy any more then a Protestant does.
When you say "you" Brucey I hope you don't actually mean me. Because I think the entire Christian faith is a diaper full. As far as doing a survey; dude grow up. Are you seriously THAT retarded? I just thought you were rather amusing, but NOW, man I wonder about your mental stability.
And whoever called a Catholic lazy? Again, you seem to have learned much from your president and manipulate things to suit your agenda. You are not only ignorant but incompetent to even hold a mild discussion. ROFLMAO!!!
You point out similarities to the different sects of Christianity but NO the huge differences in their belief systems. Like gifts of the spirit for example. Like the saints. Like idolatry. So next time you go into a battle of wits, make sure you come armed.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:18 pmAmerican Patriot
Just a question, you keep on saying "Your president." Which president are you talking about? Because if you have even the slightest familiarity with this board you know damn well it isn't Bush.
Oh, and
Okay, Idolatry: It is against the rules in the Catholic as well as all the others. It's in the ten commandments, go read them at some point. While the Catholics at a point did go through a stage of collecting artifacts, they don't worship idols. Nor do Protestants, if it includes and Idol, it isn't Christianity.
The saints, are historic figures meant to stand as examples of good Christianity, they don't exactly get used to promote ideals so much as to affirm ideals; and besides which protestants still tell their kids all about Saint Nick.
Gifts of the spirit: Catholics believe it, and so far as I have noted, a lot of protestants, particularly Evangelicals act like they believe they recieved all of them.
Before giving examples of major differences, make sure they are both major, and actually are differences.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:36 pmLike somebody said earlier, if a non-english speaking maid cannot hand a guest a roll of toilet paper then one must go to the front desk to get it. That means the maid is not doing her job. It is her job to provide room service. For normal people, toilet paper falls in the category of room service.
Comment by Stupid Republicans — May 21, 2006 @ 11:27 am
Actually her job is to clean the room not to provide room service, that is what the front desk is for. Too bad, you don't realize that. Maids are not paid to provide room service, but to clean the room. I have worked enough of these kinds of jobs in the past to know that.
Of course you do give a guest what they want, but sometimes you are not allowed to make those decisions and must refer to the front desk or risk losing your job. If you don't know what you are talking about, other than being inconvenienced for a bit, I would suggest you be quiet.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:41 pmWow, a person does not like iilliterate, illegal criminals (yes, criminals just like Bubble boy) who bring down the standard of living and the left goes nuts.
Criminals such as those in the WH and his ilk and those guys of Enron and the "K Street Gang" are the folks who bring down the standard of living for the rest of us. Keeping the federal minimum wage at what I consider a slave labor wage is another one. $5.20 or whatever? Can you provide for a family on that? Bringing down the standard of living is what happens when wages are stagnant but things keep getting more expensive. Is it not? You can thank those big spenders in Congress who have no real idea what regular American citizens live like and what it is like to live paycheck to paycheck. Borrowing from Paul to pay Peter.......
It is not some poor sap working a service industry job that Americans don't want to do. You want to go out and pick chile? Irrigate crops? How about working in a slaugterhouse on the kill floor?
Tell me, why is it that Americans don't want these jobs and that person you so despise, takes it? Because the corporations running these places don't want to pay the wages that an American citizen would expect for this kind of work. That brings down the standard of living, does it not?
You should be demanding that corporations pay for Americans to do these jobs, and for them to quit outsourcing jobs altogether. We should have tax breaks for those companies who do not outsource as opposed to rewarding those that do.
Would that not help with our standard of living? lloron.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:59 pm#159 - Bruce your ignorance ASTOUNDS me.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:10 pmAmerican Patriot
You keep on saying that I am wrong, and you keep on not backing it up. Somehow, I don't think I'm the ignorant one.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:15 pmI've stayed at some of these hotels where the housekeeping crew doesn't understand a word of english. It IS VERY frustrating to say the least. And it doesn't surprise me either that "freebird" worked some of these types of positions.
The bottom line is: ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL.PERIOD. END OF STORY. This is where the officials that were elected are falling far short of doing their job. From bushy on down to the aldermen.
I can't even believe that the people that post on TP would think otherwise. I hear your Walmart is having a big sale this weekend on balls. You all should pick yourself up a set.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:18 pmAnd it doesn’t surprise me either that “freebird†worked some of these types of positions.
Why is that? Tell me why it doesn't surprise you that "freebird" has worked some of these jobs. Step into it. Put your foot in your mouth my man.
I am not a FELON--never have been. The handle is only a play on a song I like. You know, Lynyrd Skynyrd Band. Geez, let me relive my youth man.
I have never been in jail and in fact, although I have worked these jobs, I am a degreed adult who polishes a chair with my butt. Does that answer any questions or insinuations you are about to make? Fool.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:30 pmGregor, let me guess. YOU or someone in YOUR family is here illegally.
Comment by American Patriot — May 21, 2006 @ 10:11 am
Wha? You make a lot of assumptions...
It has nothing to do with the color of someones skin dumbass. Quit trying to turn this into a racial thing.
It is -it was you who said: "Bubble boy’s goal is to make America Arabic. "
And: "Quit coddling these lazy non english speaking people. They are a burden on our society."
Those statements are both xenophobic and racist. There is no need to be an illegal alien to see you for what you are.
[Illegal immigrants] DESERVE to be gunned down by our military and law enforcement.
Illegal immigration is not punishable by death.
Quit being such a drama queen with your “gory fantasy†shit. Grow some balls and protect the country you pretend to love.
I don't need to have wet dreams about murdering fellow humans to ask for the law to be enforced -which is what is actually needed.
"Grow some balls"? You have spoken like a true Bush cultist.
Maybe you also should go "fight them over there so you don't have to fight them over here".
May 21st, 2006 at 1:33 pmFreedbird.
Funny, for some reason I associated it with Bird on a Wire (Leonard Cohen)
You know, the lines:
May 21st, 2006 at 1:37 pm
It is -it was you who said: “Bubble boy’s goal is to make America Arabic. â€
Sorry dumbass, that was NOT my quote.
And: “Quit coddling these lazy non english speaking people. They are a burden on our society.â€
Again. NOT MINE
Illegal immigration is not punishable by death.
But MY OPINION (which I am guarateed by the Constitution, I suggest you read it sometime) is that IT SHOULD BE
Maybe you also should go “fight them over there so you don’t have to fight them over hereâ€.
Are you referring to the Mexican border? I would be more than happy to amigo. Where does your family cross over?
You see Vato, you show how stupid you really are by first saying that I posted something that I didn't and then make complete assinine statements following them up.
Go job!
May 21st, 2006 at 1:45 pmSomehow, I don’t think I’m the ignorant one.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — May 21, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
Because you're not :)
May 21st, 2006 at 1:45 pmI hear your Walmart is having a big sale this weekend on balls. You all should pick yourself up a set.
And what, pray tell, will I do with them? Ha!! I dare say that this woman probably has more than you ever will. Scared of Mexicans and all.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:45 pmMaybe you also should go “fight them over there so you don’t have to fight them over hereâ€.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — May 21, 2006 @ 1:33 pm
And the United States Army will even give him a free ride over.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:49 pmFreedbird.
Funny, for some reason I associated it with Bird on a Wire (Leonard Cohen)
You know, the lines:
Like a bird on the wire,
Like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — May 21, 2006 @ 1:37 pm
Nah just an old hippy dreaming of times long past. Asi es la vida. I knew American unPatriot would be putting his foot in his mouth. I thought I would spare him the pain.
May 21st, 2006 at 1:50 pmbruce - dating yourself? not a bad thing...
but i knew it was skynyrd somehow... too bad those boys crossed to the dark side, if they weren't always there (not in MY country-rock youthful thinking!):
"...Skynyrd continues to promote southern conservatism by such things as playing for the Republican Convention in 2004 and using stage projections on tour that superimpose the Confederate flag over the American flag..."
http://www.answers.com/topic/lynyrd-skynyrd
2nd thoughts, freebird?
May 21st, 2006 at 2:01 pmMaybe you also should go “fight them over there so you don’t have to fight them over hereâ€.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — May 21, 2006 @ 1:33 pm
And the United States Army will even give him a free ride over.
Comment by unbelievable — May 21, 2006 @ 1:49 pm
If all those big mouths who support this fiasco in Iraq would sign up, the Army would meet their quota. That is all you see on the freeper sites, big mouth boys with nothing better to do than knock people, but yet when they are asked if they will serve, they too, like the illustrious chickenhawks gracing the WH and the rest of this criminal administration, have "other priorities".
May 21st, 2006 at 2:02 pmKaty for me, Skynyrds music is what I like. I do not agree with their politics. But this is America and even the Skynyrd band can be wrong. hehehe I just like the song and the music. That is all that my "handle" is about. I even liked Nugent growing up, for that is the time in which I did. But I don't agree with him either. The music is another thing for me. I won't go out and buy anything that supports their efforts now, but I will listen to it. Dang, I am old and I kind of liked the 70's. Oh I know--but those are my thoughts on this.
May 21st, 2006 at 2:06 pmsounds like we are in much the same boat, freebird...
May 21st, 2006 at 2:09 pmand it's still floating!
Are you referring to the Mexican border? I would be more than happy to amigo. Where does your family cross over?
Comment by American Patriot — May 21, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
Again, you are making a lot of assumptions.
You should follow your own advice and not make asinine comments based on something I haven't said.
You see Vato, you show how stupid you really are by first saying that I posted something that I didn’t and then make complete assinine statements following them up.
You are right in that you didn't make those statements. However, you do have a very specific type of person when you talk about illegal immigrants. You insist on calling anyone who opposes the shooting of illegal immigrants "vato", or "amigo", and keep talking about hotel maids, Catholics and "La Migra".
Don't even try to pretend your "solution" is not racially motivated.
May 21st, 2006 at 2:34 pmthey too, like the illustrious chickenhawks gracing the WH and the rest of this criminal administration, have “other prioritiesâ€.
Comment by Freebird — May 21, 2006 @ 2:02 pm
Funny too how changing the subject to that very subject shuts them all up too... Hmmm.
May 21st, 2006 at 2:36 pmBut MY OPINION (which I am guarateed by the Constitution, I suggest you read it sometime) is that IT SHOULD BE
Comment by American Patriot — May 21, 2006 @ 1:45 pm
Why is it that conservatives, when challenged, always bring up the constitution and the freedom of speech?
Do they think the constitution also guarantees idiotic comments and silly opinions to go unchallenged?
At any rate, fact remains illegal immigration is not punishable by death.
May 21st, 2006 at 2:40 pmsounds like we are in much the same boat, freebird…
and it’s still floating!
Comment by katy — May 21, 2006 @ 2:09 pm
I understand totally. Peace to you, sister!!
May 21st, 2006 at 3:05 pmYou are right in that you didn’t make those statements. However, you do have a very specific type of person when you talk about illegal immigrants. You insist on calling anyone who opposes the shooting of illegal immigrants “vatoâ€, or “amigoâ€, and keep talking about hotel maids, Catholics and “La Migraâ€.
Don’t even try to pretend your “solution†is not racially motivated.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — May 21, 2006 @ 2:34 pm
So, so correct!! Vato is slang for a guy. When someone--not of Hispanic descent--uses it in the manner in which you have, it becomes a derogatory term. I don't use it, it is gang slang and not appropriate. But listen, it is also a Mexican American term, a CHICANO word. Your use and knowledge is amazing and predictable. You know NADA!!
May 21st, 2006 at 3:10 pmOh I didn't mean Gregor Samsa in my last post I meant UnAmerican Patriot(not).
May 21st, 2006 at 3:11 pmWhen someone–not of Hispanic descent–uses it in the manner in which you have, it becomes a derogatory term.
Comment by Freebird — May 21, 2006 @ 3:10 pm
Well, thanks for confirming my suspicions, Freebird: "vato" is a slur. Coming from American "Patriot", I fully expected it.
Funny thing is, AP's comments reveal much more about himself than they could ever do about me.
Please American "Patriot", tell us once again how you are not a racist....
May 21st, 2006 at 3:20 pmIt's baffling to me that the moderator of this blog hasn't pulled the plug. I've heard more enlightened discussions on a middle school playground.
I'm done.
May 21st, 2006 at 4:34 pmI’m done.
Comment by neosavage — May 21, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
Well, if your side can't debate intelligent issues, what do you expect?
Good - another neocon down three or four to go...
May 21st, 2006 at 5:18 pmbye, bye neocon
May 21st, 2006 at 5:32 pmI don't like people who can't speak english. I agree wiht the President on this one.
I live in a large American city where there is many different cultures including, Polish, Irish, Italian, Arabic, Aisian, Mexican and many more.
The only culture of peoples that refuse to learn english are the Mexicans. Everybody else speaks fine english and do very well and are respected.
To get respect you must deserve respect.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:08 pmI am gay, am I welcome?
You seem to hate peoples who disagree with you.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:12 pmI am gay, am I welcome?=Yes!
You seem to hate peoples who disagree with you. =No , just can't stand a*s hol*s
Comment by Deep Throat — May 21, 2006 @ 8:12 pm
May 21st, 2006 at 10:24 pmBush hasn't mastered English either...
http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/2006/05/be-careful-out-there-among-english_22.html
May 22nd, 2006 at 11:06 amBush needs Snow to guide him back to what his base, Faux News, really wants. Bush will now try to bring his rhetoric around into alignment with Tony's views.
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:01 pmWell, at least somebody is in charge.
This beating of the gums about the "mandatory" English language is nothing but the proverbial "tempest in a teapot." I grew up in Connecticut a long time ago. Many of my friends and classmates were of various european lineages. None, I repeat, none of their parents spoke a word of English. They spoke Italian, Polish, Hungarian, etc. Nobody attacked, belittled, or threatened them. Consequently, to this old guy, all the "noise" about "English" seems like a lot of BS to me.
May 22nd, 2006 at 2:37 pmI say if dumbya gets a racist immigration policy, we send Gonzo back from where his parents came ILLEGALLY.
Isn't dumba also an Illegal Alien? I mean he doesn't seem to be of this world, so under the new deportation policies that seem to be in the works....
Shouldn't we send dumbya back to hell?
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