In Any Language, Sen. Coburn’s Amendment Should Make You Sick
In Any Language, Sen. Coburn’s Amendment Should Make You Sick
Executive Order 13166, signed by President Clinton on August 11, 2000, improves quality health care access for all patients, regardless of their primary language. This executive order requires Medicare and Medicaid providers to offer limited-English-proficiency (LEP) patients with a full interpreter or translator services in their own language.
This week, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) plans to offer an amendment that repeals this mandate. A look at some current problems Coburn’s amendment would make worse:
– Parents with limited English proficiency are three times more likely than parents who report speaking English “very well” to have a child in fair or poor health.
– Parents often report language barriers as the single greatest issue to garnering access to health care.
– 19 percent of Spanish-speakers report having forgone needed health treatment due to a language barrier.
At a time when the United States is more linguistically diverse than at any other time since the early 1900s, we should be working to overcome barriers that may affect an individual’s access and quality of care. Coburn’s amendment undermines the steps this country has taken to ensure access to health care.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
Why do Republicans hate human beings?
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:18 pmWhat are Coburn and his ilk trying to do, kill off all the immigrants?
What’s next? Will you have to prove heterosexuality to get medical care? Proof of northern European ancestry? Pass a literacy test? Show receipts for contributions to the RNC?
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:20 pmleviticus 19:33-34
God commanding Moses and the children of Israel: “When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.”
assholes like coburn just skip over that verse to get to the ones about homosexuality in the next chapter.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:21 pmCoburn is from Oklahoma, and to hear him talk he needs a little help in the English department as well. For that matter so does our President. (irony filter off) This amendment is a red herring. Another “hey look over there” to distract us from the fact that congress is doing NOTHING to fix the real problems in this country.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:23 pmI’m the daughter of a health care professional who spends ample time in the ER. After listening to him complain for years about how flooded the ER is with poor parents - usually with less than stellar English language skills - carrying children in with small issues like nosebleeds and fevers (no, not always the case, but a large portion of the time), it seems to me that building more free-standing clinics staffed by Spanish-speakers would help quite a bit. I just moved from the midwest to Florida and there are a ton of clinics down here and it made a lot of sense to me. Let’s give the uninsured a quality non-ER option so we can stop overcrowding our health care system, causing costs to sky-rocket.
The other issue is simply educating people, English-speaking or not, about general health care. Teach them how to care for their children when they have a fever, how to apply a tourniquet, etc. Too many young parents these days just don’t know these kinds of skills - I’m not sure whose fault that is, but that also seems to me that it could be not-so-difficult to fix. Maybe provide first-aid classes in Spanish. Go to their neighborhoods, visit the schools.
There are better long-term solutions out there, yes. But it seems to me you could open a flood of private clinics like these (not government-funded but maybe the owners could get a tax break?) in a short period of time to help with the immediate problems.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:24 pmWell of course you realize that sometimes hospitals have a hard time finding people who are qualified medical personnel and speak Spanish, and they also have to pay these people more than mono-lingual employees. This is of course one of the rationals for the rising cost of health care.
I’m not saying I necessarily agree with this amendment but TP isn’t providing any context for my this amendment is being brought about.
This is yet another way that the GOP is trying to prod people into learning English, there are people that have been here 10 years, legal or illegal who refuse to learn English. Well it costs money to provide services for these people.
Also, FYI it’s almost impossible to get a job in South Florida/Miami unless you speak Spanish, there’s something wrong with that.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:27 pmRepublicans don’t necessarily hate human beings. They just don’t think anyone should get health care for free. Of course, rich Congressmen and their corporate supporters can afford to buy whatever health care they wish. For those people too poor to afford health care, Republicans simply could not care less about their suffering. Clearly the Christian way.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:29 pmIf they kill off all the illegal immigrants, who will work for them for $2 an day and no bathroom breaks?
Wal-Mart won’t be happe to have that bouncing smiley face have to raise the price of unnecessary junk by a whole fifty cents!
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:35 pmIn my family this type of thing is called a “hummingbird” moment. My parents have all these hummingbird feeders all around their house and no matter what the topic of discussion is, if there’s a hummingbird at one of the feeders (not an uncommon occurrence) my Mom or Dad will say, “hummingbird.” It’s a really aggravating distraction.
This is Coburn’s hummingbird moment. *sigh*
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:35 pmmy Mom or Dad will say, “hummingbird.†It’s a really aggravating distraction.
Comment by Zookeeper — May 23, 2006 @ 4:35 pm
Pippi that is hysterical.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:37 pmIt’s good to see another Christian Republican dedicated to the “culture of life”.
What a band of asshats we have running this nation. I wouldn’t let Coburn near my dog with a thermometer let alone a human.
-GSD
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:41 pmEnglish only will be the repubs platform for November. It’s easy to sell and isn’t as difficult as dodging questions about Iraq, budget, health care, social security, etc. It’s “an American” issue and they will play it hard. The repub base loves this issue. It’s simple and not difficult to understand -and- emotional — perfect for those who need something basic to rally around.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:45 pmWhy do Republicans hate human beings?
Comment by Darwin — May 23, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
Not all humans… just the brown ones… oh and any white sympathizers as well
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:49 pmCoburn’s amendment undermines the steps this country has taken to ensure access to health care.
Just about everything the current form of Republican is doing is undermining steps our country has taken in just about any arena.
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:53 pm#2–Damn, stole all my thunder. I believe that is now the rationale–if we cant send ‘em back, and we can’t break into their bank accounts, we can’t poison their salsa, and we can’t push them all into the ocean….we’ll just kill them before they can give birth!! Kill two of ‘em at one time!!
Fu#king whackos, these “right to lifers”
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:55 pm#10 - Pippi that is hysterical.
Comment by unbelievable
Imagine sitting there telling them about the heart catheter test I was having last September, scared shitless, and several times “hummingbird” comes out of their mouths. (The test came out fine, but the way, my heart just likes to skip beats because its a mean f*cker.)
May 23rd, 2006 at 4:56 pmCoburn seems to be begging for the nick-name “baby killer”.
Physicians aren’t going to be happy being stuck with denying care because of a person’s english proficiency.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:01 pmI didn’t know a tourniquet would help a fever. I will try it next time the kid is complaining.
j/k
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:24 pmWell, hopefully someday this asshat (Coburn) will be trapped in a country where he does not understand their language and is in need of healthcare or some other life basic. You think that will help him appreciate his ignorance?
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:25 pmCompassionate conservativism at its finest. What happened to Love thy Neighbor?
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:26 pmisn’t coburn the guy who said high school girls were afraid of going to the bathrooms because there are “homosexuals” waiting to jump on them? is this guy a little repressed himself?
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:28 pmmy heart just likes to skip beats because its a mean f*cker.)
Comment by Zookeeper — May 23, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
No doubt!
I’d have to have to require serious conversations with them be held somewhere else… :)
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:34 pm#23 - I just take them out to lunch a lot. ;)
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:36 pmI’ve often wondered….how easy is it for a non English speaker to find free places, resources, etc to actually learn English? People talk about how everyone needs to learn it and imply they are just lazy or resistant but I wonder if there are other hindrances?
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:41 pmPerhaps companies need to start replacing people who don’t speak Spanish with those that can. Then again why just stick with Spanish? Mandrin Chineese is the most common language on the planet.
Hmmm maybe legislation that anyone that deals with the public has to know a couple of languages may help too. Servers at restaurants, cashiers etc (We do need to make it more comfortable in this country for illegal immigrants)
I know there is a shortage of nurses now, but I think requiring them to know a second language before getting a job may be a smart choice as well.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:49 pmNorth American Union to Replace USA?
President Bush is pursuing a globalist agenda to create a North American Union, effectively erasing our borders with both Mexico and Canada. This was the hidden agenda behind the Bush administration’s true open borders policy.
Secretly, the Bush administration is pursuing a policy to expand NAFTA politically, setting the stage for a North American Union designed to encompass the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. What the Bush administration truly wants is the free, unimpeded movement of people across open borders with Mexico and Canada.
President Bush intends to abrogate U.S. sovereignty to the North American Union, a new economic and political entity which the President is quietly forming, much as the European Union has formed.
The blueprint President Bush is following was laid out in a 2005 report entitled “Building a North American Community” published by the left-of-center Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR report connects the dots between the Bush administration’s actual policy on illegal immigration and the drive to create the North American Union:
At their meeting in Waco, Texas, at the end of March 2005, U.S. President George W. Bush, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin committed their governments to a path of cooperation and joint action. We welcome this important development and offer this report to add urgency and specific recommendations to strengthen their efforts.
What is the plan? Simple, erase the borders. The plan is contained in a “Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America” little noticed when President Bush and President Fox created it in March 2005:
In March 2005, the leaders of Canada, Mexico, and the United States adopted a Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), establishing ministerial-level working groups to address key security and economic issues facing North America and setting a short deadline for reporting progress back to their governments. President Bush described the significance of the SPP as putting forward a common commitment “to markets and democracy, freedom and trade, and mutual prosperity and security.” The policy framework articulated by the three leaders is a significant commitment that will benefit from broad discussion and advice. The Task Force is pleased to provide specific advice on how the partnership can be pursued and realized.
To that end, the Task Force proposes the creation by 2010 of a North American community to enhance security, prosperity, and opportunity. We propose a community based on the principle affirmed in the March 2005 Joint Statement of the three leaders that “our security and prosperity are mutually dependent and complementary.” Its boundaries will be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter within which the movement of people, products, and capital will be legal, orderly and safe. Its goal will be to guarantee a free, secure, just, and prosperous North America.
The perspective of the CFR report allows us to see President Bush’s speech to the nation as nothing more than public relations posturing and window dressing. No wonder President Vincente Fox called President Bush in a panic after the speech. How could the President go back on his word to Mexico by actually securing our border? Not to worry, President Bush reassured President Fox. The National Guard on the border were only temporary, meant to last only as long until the public forgets about the issue, as has always been the case in the past.
The North American Union plan, which Vincente Fox has every reason to presume President Bush is still following, calls for the only border to be around the North American Union — not between any of these countries. Or, as the CFR report stated:
The three governments should commit themselves to the long-term goal of dramatically diminishing the need for the current intensity of the governments’ physical control of cross-border traffic, travel, and trade within North America. A long-term goal for a North American border action plan should be joint screening of travelers from third countries at their first point of entry into North America and the elimination of most controls over the temporary movement of these travelers within North America.
Discovering connections like this between the CFR recommendations and Bush administration policy gives credence to the argument that President Bush favors amnesty and open borders, as he originally said. Moreover, President Bush most likely continues to consider groups such as the Minuteman Project to be “vigilantes,” as he has also said in response to a reporter’s question during the March 2005 meeting with President Fox.
Why doesn’t President Bush just tell the truth? His secret agenda is to dissolve the United States of America into the North American Union. The administration has no intent to secure the border, or to enforce rigorously existing immigration laws. Securing our border with Mexico is evidently one of the jobs President Bush just won’t do. If a fence is going to be built on our border with Mexico, evidently the Minuteman Project is going to have to build the fence themselves. Will President Bush protect America’s sovereignty, or is this too a job the Minuteman Project will have to do for him?
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:51 pmEither Coburn is as stupid as a rock, or he never heard of epidemics and infectious diseases and public health. A whole lot of very bad things could happen if a large hunk of the population could get sick and the health system not know about it. Cholera, typhoid,measles, mumps, diptheria — all the health crisises of the last century.
All due apologies to rocks.
#3. I agree with you completely.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:53 pmDo you know the quote that says something about having only one set of scales and one set of laws?
I just take them out to lunch a lot. ;)
Comment by Zookeeper — May 23, 2006 @ 5:36 pm
Hmmm…. maybe the birds were just a ruse to get you to do this… :)
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:58 pm[…] Meredith King at Think Progress reports that Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) plans to offer an amendment repealing the Clinton era executive order improving health care access for all patients regardless of their primary language: This executive order requires Medicare and Medicaid providers to offer limited-English-proficiency (LEP) patients with a full interpreter or translator services in their own language… […]
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:58 pmMedicare and Medicaid providers to offer limited-English-proficiency (LEP) patients with a full interpreter or translator services in their own language
I think I am going to learn Swahili and then have fun getting the hospitals to find me interpreters on the tax payers dollar.
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:08 pmI think I am going to learn Swahili and then have fun getting the hospitals to find me interpreters on the tax payers dollar.
Comment by Tundra — May 23, 2006 @ 6:08 pm
Uh, hate to ruin your fun by reminding you of stuff you said 20 minutes ago, but… :)
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:17 pmOf course all teachers should be required to know a couple languages as well. No sense in having students with a primary home language that is not English have to only have specific teachers :)
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:24 pmMy daughter is about to enter kindergarden in an area with a significant latino population (San Jose, CA). We are native English speakers, and we’re sending her to a public school that teaches in Spanish 90% of the time. Bottom line: There are more opportunities for people who speak more than one language. We want to prepare her for the future, and multi-lingualism is where it’s at.
t-mac
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:42 pmCoburn seems to be begging for the nick-name “baby killerâ€.
Physicians aren’t going to be happy being stuck with denying care because of a person’s english proficiency.
Comment by Hit_Escape
Hasn’t Coburn, on the other hand, recommended the death penalty for doctors who perform abortions? Typical compASSionate conservatism: love thy fetuses but hate those actually on Earth.
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:54 pmOK, serious question here (I’ll stop with the baiting of Unbelievable I’ve been at it all day)
If it’s rude to tell people who have come to this country to live that they must learn English (The most prominent language in this country). What is it to tell English speakers they are REQUIRED to learn Spanish to support those that don’t? To me it sounds like taking the Minority and requiring the Majority to do things their way. Sort of completely against Democracy (While I realize we were founded as a republic it is gone now).
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:00 pmyea, it’s the republican motto: “throw back the little ones, and kill the big ones!” ie., “no on abortion, yes on capital punishment!”
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:02 pmOf course all teachers should be required to know a couple languages as well.
Comment by Tundra — May 23, 2006 @ 6:24 pm
Are French and Italian enough? I’m terribly rusty on both - but given the opportunity to speak on a regular basis… :)
Okay have fun being serious now. I’m off until tomorrow.
Ciao!
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:07 pmTundra: I hope you and your whole family dies of Avian Flu!
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:12 pmTundra,
Native Spanish speakers will be be the majority group in my state (CA) in the next 20-50 years. So, it will be necessary to speak two languages in order to function. Like I said before, I want to prepare my children for the future. Integration versus segregation. Just my two cents.
t-mac
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:20 pmT-mac,
I fully understand your reasoning behind learning it and teaching your daughter. I can even understand a state requiring it, but making it a federal issue sort of blows me away. If I live in an area with very few Spanish speaking immigrants why should the Federal Government require the majority to adapt for the few?
I have no problem with states close to the border or with a large immigrant population handling the issue, I just would prefer the administration stays out of it and works on some of their other issues.
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:37 pm39,
Tundra: I hope you and your whole family dies of Avian Flu!
Comment by Joe Caribe
At least you are showing that you are open to discussion and not blindly following a party line. It also shows that you lack the intelligence to think before you open your mouth. A majority of my family are Liberals so if we all did die, you would lose more than you gained. Try to look at the whole picture for just a few minutes, go ahead and step out of your little bubble of a world and imagine that not everyone is the same.
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:46 pmTundra,
Agreed. Work on the real issues instead of diverting attention from what’s really going on. But, don’t hold your breath. The powers that be have no interest in working on the real issues. It’s all about stauts quo.
t-mac
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:56 pmSure am glad I live in NM. Where our Constitution is already in Spanish and English. And where, by law, we are a bilingual state. This is just business as usual for us. We do print up documents in English, Spanish, Vietnamese and Dine (Navajo). That is a good thing.
May 23rd, 2006 at 8:03 pmSorry to be off topic — does anyone know what’s happened to raw story.com?
May 23rd, 2006 at 8:44 pmMedicare and Medicaid providers to offer limited-English-proficiency (LEP) patients with a full interpreter or translator services in their own language
I think I am going to learn Swahili and then have fun getting the hospitals to find me interpreters on the tax payers dollar.
Comment by Tundra — May 23, 2006 @ 6:08 pm
Tundra: Complaining about children of immigrants getting help with the language when they have health problems shows what kind of a human being you are, and the fact that you call that “thinking” leads me to believe you were born from a test tube!
May 23rd, 2006 at 9:15 pmcompassion, humanity. Where I come from we have exchange students. Right now we have three boys from Ethiopa, and one from Thailand, none of which spoke a word of english. Just so you know, our school system has COMPASSION. They now get by very well having learned the english language.
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:23 pmI don’t know what the answer is here but I don’t think the Senator is evil, much as I love to blaim things on the Republicans. He has good intentions, and we need a way to ensure that immigrants are required to learn English so they can function in society since one of the most important things for economic success is a unified communications system. I don’t think we should deny non-english-speakers healthcare, but we do need to come up with a way to ensure they’re making an effort to improve their english proficiency.
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:28 pmI’m alway disappointed that the AMA is not taking the lead to define our healthcare system. They seem perfectly content to let politicians run their professional.
I don’t think these particular problems are limited by language, but the ability to pay.
#5 had some good ideas.
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:38 pmNumber three, thank you for your quote from Leviticus. I was, is, nice and so well taken. How is it that we have become such a mean people? Dr. Coburn is such a disappointment. But then aren’t all Republicans?
I’m in the unenviable position of being a “native Okie”. Both of my grandfathers were established here before statehood. We ran a nice young Democrat against Tom Coburn. The RNC sent in great gobs of money and professionals to make Brad Carson look bad and Tom Coburn look good. It was kind of ’swift-boat like’. Coburn won.
There are people who like Coburn because of his anti-pork barrel diatribes. They obviously don’t follow his voting record. If he intends to have enough money to do this again he has to repay the RNC with a ‘republican’ voting record.
Most of Mr. Coburn’s political positions are truly barbaric. His suggestion, amendment, that English be required before medical treatment is administered is absolute nonsense. He is mean and he is stupid.
Lets start by addressing the matter of being an ‘english speaker’. At my age I have watched these things work themselves out. When I was a boy there were German families that only spoke German in the home. Old people don’t do new languages readily. They never really got english right. The kids did. The old folks are gone now.
One of the other writers mentioned Dinei, which is what the Navajo people call themselves. By the time I was 5 I knew “INKEYTAH”. It is Kiowa indian for Kiowa. The old indian men wore braids and spoke only Kiowa. Now the children don’t even know Kiowa.
The same happens with our latin population. The old men speak Mexican. The kids learn English. I have personally begged the kids to learn Mexican so that they might be bilingual. Its a useful edge in life.
Tom Coburn is clearly not bilingual. If he had another language he would know better than to complain. During the second great war we used to complain that the Germans had been narrowly technically trained and were hence vulnerable to propaganda. Tom Coburn has been narrowly and technically trained. He is untrained in the art of being human.
Sadly, like the old men who don’t speak english, he is too old to be changed. I once asked him, Coburn, to not return to Oklahoma when he left the senate. I asked him to stay in Washington and be a republican lobbyist. He is not welcome.
It is time that the “good people” in the community stood up on their hind legs and demanded to be recognized. The middle class and the poor are being destroyed. If this happens the United States is lost. In the United States the fight for survival is internal. Bin Laden is not our enemy. He is too small to do any real damage. Our real enemy is our own radical right wing.
The wealthy and the powerful work the radical right to their own ends. The radical right and the Tom Coburns actually don’t even know what they are doing. They are mere puppets in an evil dance.
May 24th, 2006 at 3:13 amSarcasm turned way up: And what do they plan to do with english-as-as-second-language doctors whose english isn’t all that stellar? Ship them off as well. Then we’re going to be in a real crisis.
May 24th, 2006 at 7:22 amI get paid more for being bilingual. I speak Spanish, but it was learned as a child. My parents were not allowed as children to speak Spanish in school or they were punished. My parents are not immigrants, but 15th generation New Mexicans. My family came to NM in 1603. My grandfather never could read or write a lick of English, however he was an American and a proud one too. He was 14th generation New Mexican. This is a red herring. Being thrown at your cuteousy of the RNC and the rest of their racist folks. A red herring nothing more. Don’t let this distract us from the real issues of the day.
May 24th, 2006 at 8:43 amI was under the impression that the topic was Dr. Meng…er Coburn’s Ammendment, which would prevent an immigrant who doesn’t speak English from getting help in another laguage when asking for medical assistance.
All of the sudden, someone who wants to CHANGE THE SUBJECT, wields the Good Book like a hammer and pretends to lecture the lower classes about responsibility.
Joneser you demand responsiblity (english proficiency) from people who are, for the most part, illiterate in their own language. Why do you think they risk their lives crossing the border? Do you think it’s because they can’t get a job as College Professors in their own countries?
If you really want to demand responsibility, why don’t you insist that US allies like Mr.
Coca-Cola Fox down in Mexico start using their nation’s wealth (Mexico is a rich country, believe it or not) to address the needs of its own citizens instead of giving it away to his cronies and foreign corporations?
If you tell me that that’s not your responsibility then, you and I don’t read from the same Bible!
If taking away medical care from immigrant children
May 24th, 2006 at 11:30 amIf taking away………..
My mistake!
May 24th, 2006 at 11:42 amREPLY TO #51
Yeah the old 1st generations who aren’t receptive speaking english is one thing. And the young learning english is going to happen with our culture… but the issue is that our lax immigraiton laws bring more and more in who don’t speak english. so the old can “die out” so to speak all they want… it doesn’t change the fact that more and more continue coming in of all generations. To me it is amzing how it is labeled racist mean blah blah blah to divert from the issue…
Bottom line it wasn’t when immigrants from everywhere else struggle and fight to come here legally and learn the language to better their lives and their children. By gilrfriend is Chilean she came through Peru during the coup. Her father got her brought her, her mother and brother over… they were on welfare for a total 6 months only.. all the while she was put into public school and learned the language, as well as her parents learned english on their own here in chicago, where ther were no ESL classes. They bought a car in 3 years and bought a home in 6. And because their father loves this country so much, he became a cop to this day for the past 20 years.
Contrast that with her cousins… who have been here for roughly 8 years. They talk crap about this country… They have done nothing with thier time here when thier are more opportunities in this country than ever before. they feel entitled and superior and claim we are racists, yet compare that to how they treat blacks in their own country… and why did they come here… because of the Peruvian invasion of illegals who are taking up all their jobs… Plus they refuse to become citizens because they know they don’t have to… Now these people came from Chile, not Mexico… so just imagine.
My step father is Hatian. He immigrated when he was 14 (53 now). You think racism held him back? Lack of oppurtuntiy? Did he feel entitled to people speaking creole for health care etc. or to vote? HELL NO. He learned english, busted his ASS… worked for Big Blue IBM in their hay day of the 80’s travelled the country helped set up computer systems when the president made his travels to different cities… now a head manager with a company that designs computer systems for businesses…
When I hear this ignorant crap about Republicans this and that.. it is ridiculous. discover the history of the parties… If there is such a thing as the reperations racket, the Democrats owe the races (particularly we blacks) alot more than republicans.
I am not one to think, nor my immigrants friends and family that the mexican immigrant is anymore special than the Hatian, Indian, Polish, Filipino, Chinese, Japanese, Pakistani, Nigerian etc. who are all waiting in line and will learn the common language of this country without any sense of entitlement
May 24th, 2006 at 12:03 pmKeep in mind that most illegal immigrants are working two, sometimes three jobs, every day, at very low wages. This does not leave a lot of time, money or energy for learning English.
May 24th, 2006 at 12:19 pmJust because you have a weekend doesn’t mean everyone does.
Joe Caribe,
I wasn’t changing the subject, i was making a parallel, and i wasn’t talking down to the masses from on high either… i don’t have to be a physicist to know what goes up must come down most of the time… i agree with you about Fox… he is a joke and yes the whole racket of this administration and all the ones who have come before President Bush have milked the immigration issues. Why? free unaccounted for money, Because our legislators are not held accountable for not enforcing the laws or passing the ones we sent them to do. Fox is on his way out and it will only get worse if we don’t change. Our tax system is a joke, or social security is a joke. public education, is a joke, why? because of government monopoly. We have no choices in where put our energies and concerns we should be taking our money back and refocus on the community, to the people who really effect our lives… With that money going to waste in the federal and local relm… i could take care of my own parents health care like our nation used to do… i could get my child the best education… when my child is of age he will hold a job in highschool, learn the respect and esteem it brings earnign your own money, save for my own retirment with greater returns and not from a government that promises and never fullfills.. allow me to be accountable and quit telling me i am a victim and taking from others and giving to others… life liberty and the pursuit of happiness… quit taking that away from others.
As far as healthcare.. My girlfriend (Chilean) was a medical interprator. She’d come back with all sorts of stories… She felt sorry for these children not their parents because some of whom had been in the U.S. for years and never bothered, one even spoke of how he was looking to get hurt one time so he could file a lawsuit against the construction company that hired him to make money… Or the drunk driver she had to interpret for who was driving through a school zone over 80mph at 8am who live here for 6 years and couldn’t speak a lick of english and was un insured and wrapped his car around a tree and was so bad even the cop was could barely look at him when filling out the report, or the illegal who had attempted suicide twice and came in on his third try with cocaine and pills (so much for poor) saying he was doing it because he was sexually abused and all but said he had been molesting a children in and around his neighborhood but couldn’t go to the cops but rather went to the hospital (credit to him for trying to off himself or turn himself in someway) but the doctors didn’t do anything to investigate or report what he was saying because of the laws… i can go the other way and recall a rape of a woman where the cops we lax about the whole incidentwhen she was a cleaning lady at a hotel and was raped by a patron.. It all is a travesty, but i won’t stand for the idea that we demand an individual to take time out of their lives to do something without incentive… it builds recentment. We can talk about doing things all day that can give us warm fuzzies… but does it work? There are communities and and tax payer funded places to learn english my girlfriend’s parents went to one. I don’t agree with the guy about requiring a profficency in enlgish necessarily, particularly if you are first generation… but after an “x” number of years.. it is time to get with the program.
I love my country and the immigrants who have come here to make it stronger and have said that america, it’s culture, language, laws, and borders will be respected and abided, welcome to your new home.
May 24th, 2006 at 1:01 pmWhat is it to tell English speakers they are REQUIRED to learn Spanish to support those that don’t? To me it sounds like taking the Minority and requiring the Majority to do things their way.
Comment by Tundra #36
Tuna(smell),
…it’s called educating onesself…
…cultural diversity…
…most countries in the world teach their inhabitants more than one language…
…and Texican don’t count…
May 24th, 2006 at 1:14 pmI want to post an article by Georgie Geyer, who has been on PBS’s show, Washington Week In Review, many times. Since many here maybe unhappy with her article, I’m posting her history to prove she knows about Latin affairs.
Georgie Anne Geyer
foreign correspondent
Born: 4/2/1935
Birthplace: Chicago, Ill.
After graduating from Northwestern University’s Medill School of Journalism in 1956, Geyer won a Fulbright Scholarship to the University of Vienna. In 1959 she joined the Chicago Daily News as a society reporter, but was eventually reassigned to the news desk. In 1964 she won a grant enabling her to study and report abroad. Geyer went to Peru. She was then sent to cover revolutionaries in the Dominican Republic. In 1974 she left the Daily News and became a syndicated columnist. Geyer, who speaks Spanish, Portuguese, German, and Russian, often reports from the field. In 1973 she was the first Westerner to interview Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. Geyer has been jailed in Angola for her articles about that country’s civil war, and Guatemala’s White Hand death squad once threatened to kill her. Geyer has interviewed Yasser Arafat, Anwar Sadat, King Hussein, Moammar Gadhafi, and the Ayatollah Khomeini. She is the author of a number of books on Latin America, Russia, and the Middle East, including the acclaimed 1993 biography of Fidel Castro, Guerrilla Prince.
Fact Monster/Information Please® Database, © 2005 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0880173.html
““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
04/03/2006
MEXICO’S PLAN PUTS AMERICAN VALUES TO THE TEST
Georgie Anne Geyer
WASHINGTON — Behind the illegal immigrants waving Mexican and Salvadoran flags in Los Angeles last week; behind the Mexican girl in Arlington, Va., who was quoted as saying on radio, “Citizens — what are they for? We do all the work”; behind the antiquated calls for taking back the Southwest in the name of a Mexican Aztlan — there is a plan.
I am not saying that this plan, propagated by Mexico City, could challenge the lies, secrecy and Machiavellian scheming of American war plans in the Middle East. I am not saying that the Mexican Foreign Ministry, with its offshoot the Institute of Mexicans Abroad, is directing an “invasion” of the United States.
But what is happening with illegals in America — the riots, the refusal to become American while demanding all the rights of committed citizens, the desperate hanging on to “Mexicanness” — is not accidental. It is the result of careful and cynical plans on the part of the Mexican government to develop its own constituency inside American society — and to keep it forever Mexican.
This is the untold story. Congress debates (and decries, and derides and debates some more) how to assimilate illegals, most of them Mexican. But the vast majority of Mexican immigrants won’t ever become Americans in their hearts because their government goes with them wherever they go. There are now upward of 45 Mexican consulates in the U.S. that keep immigrants demanding ever more welfare and privileges of “El Norte.” Immigrants are used as a political wedge to demand more guest worker programs of Washington and to fight border control in the name of some utopian (but unworkable and dangerous) open-borders plan for all of North America.
The Mexican illegals in America are calling it a “new civil rights movement.” But whereas America’s civil rights movement was fought for freedom for unjustly treated Americans, this movement is one of more dependency on El Norte and of a refusal to develop Mexican society economically so it can be independent and self-actualizing.
Let me explain.
In 1995, I was in Mexico City interviewing two accomplished Mexican diplomats, one of them being Ambassador Alejandro Carrillo Castro, who had been Mexico’s consul general in Chicago. He had put forth the idea of “dual citizenship” for Mexicans in the United States. The State Department encouraged it, and the new age was born. No longer did Mexican immigrants have to choose — and thus began the development of the plan.
When in Mexico again last November, I saw the next steps. I dropped in at the Foreign Ministry to see Carlos Gonzalez Gutierrez, head of the Institute of Mexicans Abroad. He told me: “The basic concept is that the Mexican nation goes beyond the borders that contain Mexico. You can feel part of our nation without being on our territory.
“For the first time, we are exporting our politics. Many Mexicans now live ‘transnational’ lives, with one foot in our country and one foot in the other. This contributes to everyone’s well-being.”
Soon, Mexican candidates were traveling to Los Angeles to run for Mexican positions. Among the dual citizens there, they were asking the immigrants to influence their families “back home.” At the same time, the passage of NAFTA bred more outward-looking attitudes. And a new breed of consuls with a different profile, highly politicized, were suddenly found across the United States. Mexicans in America could now “force anti-immigrant American politicians to pay a price,” Gonzales continued.
Proof that these Mexican efforts were carefully and often cynically calculated according to American sensitivities was shown in the institute’s hesitation to have Mexican citizens seen in voting lines — in America — voting for Mexican candidates.
“My most serious concern was to open the ballot boxes in Pilsen in Chicago and have lines of people voting for Mexican politicians,” Gonzales remarked seriously. “The advantage of the system we set up — Mexicans voting through the mail — is that it goes under the political radar.”
In short, what we have is a new ethnic-political situation totally unlike anything in America’s past, except perhaps the 1920s German Bund and the present-day Israeli lobby. Both made and make strong political demands on their American members in the name of “the old country.” Other national groups represented in America — Polish, Lithuanian, British, French, etc. — are more cultural organizations.
But with the Mexican immigrants, it is ineffably more difficult. Their homeland is often only an hour or two hours’ flight away, and of course they can simply walk across the border. Their homeland hangs onto them. Still another dramatic example: Mexican President Vicente Fox recently put ads in American papers asserting Mexico should “participate in the design, management, supervision and evaluation” of any American guest worker program.
Meanwhile, to the shame that will follow Fox through history, in his five years as president he has done nothing to free up the economy, to create jobs and to break down the strangling class system of his country. Today, for instance, oil revenues account for some $28 billion a year, and remittances from Mexicans overseas are $20 billion. Dependency on oil, dependency on exporting their surplus people: a sad story.
It might be only that, except that 44.6 percent of Los Angeles is now Hispanic (second in real numbers only to Mexico City), and whites will soon number only 31 percent. Within 50 years Latinos will outnumber whites.
What will be the results of this unprecedented Mexican program of brazenly reaching into another country and telling it what to do? Will Mexicans simply retake the southern U.S.? Or will we perhaps come too late to the realization that in our foolishness, we have helped start the breakup of America?
http://www.uexpress.com/ georgieannegeyer/ ?uc_full_date=20060403
May 24th, 2006 at 1:31 pm“““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““
Many Mexicans Have Jobs Before Crossing
(AP) SASABE, Mexico When Pedro Lopez Vazquez crossed illegally into the United States last week, he was not heading north to look for a job. He already had one.
His future employer even paid $1,000 for a smuggler to help Vazquez make his way from the central Mexican city of Puebla to Aspen, Colo.
“We’re going to Colorado to work in carpentry because we have a friend who was going to give us a job,” Vazquez said.
Vazquez, 41, was interviewed along the Arizona border after being deported twice by the U.S. Border Patrol. He said he would keep trying until he got to Aspen.
His story is not unusual. A growing number of U.S. employers and migrants are tapping into an underground employment network that matches one with the other, often before the migrants leave home.
“It continues to become clear who controls immigration: It’s not governments, but rather the market,” said Jorge Santibanez, director of the Tijuana-based think-tank Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
As debate over immigration heats up in the United States, more and more U.S. companies in need of cheap labor are turning to undocumented employees to recruit friends and relatives back home, and to smugglers to find job seekers.
Darcy Tromanhauser, of the nonprofit law project Nebraska Appleseed, said companies in need of workers rely on the networks to “pass along the information more effectively than billboards.”
“It started out more explicitly, where (meatpacking) companies used to have buses to transport people to come up, and they would advertise directly in Mexico,” she said. “Now I think that happens more informally.”
At the same time, it has become less risky for companies to recruit illegal migrants. Since the Sept. 11 terror attacks, U.S. prosecution of employers who hire such workers has dwindled to a trickle as the government puts its resources toward national security.
The few cases that are prosecuted, however, highlight how lucrative a business recruiting undocumented workers has become. In one case, a single smuggler allegedly earned $900,000 over 15 months placing 6,000 migrants in jobs at Chinese restaurants across the upper Midwest.
Shan Wei Yu, a 51-year-old Chinese-American, was sentenced in December to nine years in federal prison on charges involving the transportation of 40 of those migrants. Investigations involving the others continue.
Rick Hilzendager, special agent for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Grand Forks, N.D., said Yu connected 6,000 migrants from Latin America with jobs in Chinese restaurants in Illinois, Michigan, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wisconsin.
Based in Yu’s home in McKinney, Texas, the Great Texas Employment Agency placed ads in Chinese-language newspapers in the Chicago area offering cheap labor from Latin America, investigators said.
Yu sent a recruiter with Spanish interpreters to find migrants in Dallas willing to be fry cooks and dishwashers, Hilzendager said. A team made up mostly of illegal Chinese immigrants rented cars and drove them up.
Yu allegedly charged a $150 finder’s fee for each migrant while the drivers earned $300 per worker. Restaurant owners deducted the $450 from workers’ first-month paychecks of $1,000.
“It was just so easy,” Hilzendager said.
Nick Chase, assistant U.S. attorney in North Dakota, said Yu even offered to replace workers free of charge if one left within two weeks of starting.
“It was a 2-for-1 special — like a pizza,” Chase said. “Everything about it was ugly.”
The employees, housed in cramped apartments provided by employers, worked 14-hour days and had little outside contact. The case broke open in August 2004 after two Mexican migrants working at the Buffet House in Grand Forks fled poor conditions and were picked up along a highway by Border Patrol agents.
Many of the drivers involved in the scheme were deported to China. Two North Dakota restaurant owners were sentenced to four months each for harboring illegal immigrants.
But many migrants, and many employers, say the recruiters provide a valuable service. Sergio Sosa, who organizes Nebraska meatpackers, said many are seen as heroes in the Mexican towns where the workers come from.
Sosa, speaking by telephone from Omaha, said that in the 1990s companies bused migrants from the U.S.-Mexico border, paying them room and board plus salaries of $100 a week. But after a government crackdown, they began to rely more on their workers to recruit friends and family back in Mexico.
“One of the meatpacking supervisors is from Michoacan, and most of the people working for him come from his town,” Sosa said. “There’s no official recruiting — it’s more internal through family.”
Migrants setting out along the border confirmed his account. Guadalupe Mendez, 26, said her sister found her work as a seamstress in Los Angeles. Lorenzo Garcia Ruiz, 38, said friends arranged a gardening job for him in Kentucky.
To make a real dent in this network, the U.S. government would need to go after employers or make them pay the costs of legalizing workers, migration activists say.
But an August 2005 report of the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, indicates the opposite is happening. After the Sept. 11 attacks, work-site inspections by U.S. immigration officials plummeted as they focused on national security cases.
From 1999 to 2004, the number of businesses that faced fines dropped from 417 to three, the GAO said. Data after 2004 could not be compared because the government changed the way it records data.
Investigators say fake documents makes it difficult to prove an employer has knowingly hired an undocumented worker. The business community argues that employers aren’t equipped to spot fraud and warns that more investigations could lead to workplace discrimination.
Chase said businesses must be kept in check.
“There are employers out there who are always going to be tempted by the bottom line,” he said.
http://cbs2chicago.com/ local/ finance_story_105171341.html
May 24th, 2006 at 1:35 pmWOW! Tom Coburn comes off very poorly. There is somthing wrong when folks will elect asses like this to office. I lived in OK from 1966 to 1987. Somthing happened to that state after the Murrah bombing. The good will that followed for a while was quickly replaced by a “Me first!” mantra that even gives social conservatism a bad name. OK was a nuch nicer, tolerant, friendlier place then than it is now. Thats moving backwards very fast!
Texas Juice
May 24th, 2006 at 1:38 pmRecently I was in the Social Security Administration’s office, ahead of me was an older Mexican couple. The receptionist kept asking the man is he could speak English. He was persistent that he was going to speak Spanish only, finally his wife said something to him and he spoke English, but it took awhile before he gave in. The Mexicans waving the Mexican flags in their march here in Phoenix show that they are serious about changing the U.S., not changing themselves to become American citizens. My Grandfather came here from Norway legally and so should they. I am against amnesty for them. They are not just doing jobs that Americans don’t want, they are taking jobs away from Americans. I heard of a painting company in Phoenix that laid off the white men and hired all illegal aliens. Lou Dobbs posted a comment that President Teddy Roosevelt made about immigration.
“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American…
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile…We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language…and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
–Theodore Roosevelt, 1919
This is not about being prejudice, but about enforcing our laws. For every illegal sent back, let the next one on the INS list come in. Some people have been waiting years to bring their families here. We have laws for a reason. Here in Arizona some hospitals have closed because of the illegals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Immigration Impact:
Arizona
“Arizona spends $187 million annually to educate illegal immigrant students in grades K-12.39″
“Arizona hospitals spend $150 million annually to provide care to illegal aliens, according to the Arizona Hospital and Healthcare Association.4 Some hospitals in rural counties have had to scale down or discontinue some services for the general population in order to continue to pay for care for illegal aliens.5″
http://www.fairus.org/ site/ PageServer?pagename=research_research9988
About FAIR
The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a national, nonprofit, public-interest, membership organization of concerned citizens who share a common belief that our nation’s immigration policies must be reformed to serve the national interest.
FAIR seeks to improve border security, to stop illegal immigration, and to promote immigration levels consistent with the national interest—more traditional rates of about 300,000 a year.
With more than 198,000 members and supporters nationwide, FAIR is a non-partisan group whose membership runs the gamut from liberal to conservative.Our grassroots networks help concerned citizens use their voices to speak up for effective, sensible immigration policies that work for America’s best interests.
How is a person to know if this is a right-wing radical group?
May 24th, 2006 at 1:51 pmLou Dobbs has been more than fair on his show on CNN. He has people from both sides of the Immigration issue on his show.
U.S. policy on immigration is a tragic joke
By Lou Dobbs
Special for “The Republic”
Aug. 28, 2005 12:00 AM
There is a common front in our illegal-alien crisis, the war on drugs and the global war on terror. That front line is easily defined as our nation’s borders, airports and seaports. And Arizonans know only too well the pain and problems of living and working on the front line of our border with Mexico.
South of that border is a corrupt and ineffective government run by President Vicente Fox, who has no apparent incentive to control the flow of drugs being shipped from Mexico into the United States and every incentive to continue the exportation of illegal aliens into this country. This year, in fact, remittances back to Mexico from the estimated 20 million Mexican citizens living in the United States, most of them illegally, surpassed oil as Mexico’s No. 1 source of foreign revenue.
In the United States, an obscene alliance of corporate supremacists, desperate labor unions, certain ethnocentric Latino activist organizations and a majority of our elected officials in Washington works diligently to keep our borders open, wages suppressed and the American people all but helpless to resist the crushing financial and economic burden created by the millions of illegal aliens who crash our borders each year. advertisement
They work just as hard to deny the truth to the American public. That’s why almost every evening on my CNN broadcast we report on this country’s “Broken Borders.” The truth is that U.S. immigration policy is a tragic joke at the expense of hard-working middle-class Americans.
What has been the response of the Bush administration? It proposed a guest-worker program giving legal status to millions of illegal aliens. But national opinion polls reveal an overwhelming majority of Americans are contemptuous of such cynical proposals. The latest Zogby poll shows only 35 percent of those surveyed support the president’s approach. The American people want our borders secure, want our immigration laws enforced and want those who hire illegal aliens both punished and held liable for the economic and social costs of breaking our laws.
We are a nation of immigrants, and there is no more diverse and welcoming society than ours. But we are first a nation of laws, and upholding those laws and our national values makes this great country of ours possible.
Arizonans are to be commended for passing Proposition 200 and creating the political will that led to last week’s declaration of the state of emergency by Gov. Janet Napolitano. Neither act is sufficient to solve our illegal-immigration crisis, but both acts constitute a beginning in resolving what may well be the most critical issue facing the United States.
Last week, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he wanted to “stabilize” our borders and create more detainee beds and expedite more deportations. Stabilizing our borders is not enough. If we do not take control of our borders, deportations amount to little more than inconvenience to illegal aliens and whomever else wants to enter our country.
Failure to secure our borders means that we will continue to lose the war on drugs and lose a generation of Americans to those drugs. It also means the crushing burden of our failed immigration and homeland security policies will continue to fall exclusively on the shoulders of working men and women. Not only do illegal aliens and those who employ them cost the nation tens of billions of dollars in social services, principally in health care and education, they also depress wages for American citizens by an estimated $200 billion a year.
The most reasonable response I have seen to this illegal-immigration crisis is legislation introduced by one of your state’s distinguished senators, Jon Kyl, who co-sponsored a bill with Sen. John Cornyn. That bill seeks 10,000 new Border Patrol agents and detention beds, fraud-resistant Social Security cards, increased penalties for employers and current illegal aliens would have to leave the United States to apply for permanent citizenship.
Reform begins with the truth. And our elected officials must begin to recognize the reality that a war on terror and war on drugs can be won only by securing our borders and that any reform of our immigration policies must begin first at the front line of the crisis: our border with Mexico.
Anything less is just another sad joke, and we know at whose expense.
Lou Dobbs is the anchor and managing editor of CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight.”
May 24th, 2006 at 1:57 pmJoneser: If you’ll forgive me, I am going to try to focus your attention on the topic we are trying to discuss today but first, let me tell you that I am no stranger to the immigration experience: I came to this country from Cuba 45 years ago and as a young child, it took me less than a year at the orphanage before I was speaking English reasonably well.
Your family, my family and the families of millions of immigrants who came before us had the obligation to learn the language and eventually assimilate into the American culture. That is not difficult when you are a young person but if you are a grownup, it becomes more difficult especially if you have to work one or more fulltime jobs and you don’t have some basic skills such as being able to read and write in your own language. Agreed?
What is at stake here is not the need to work hard and learn the language or the right of a country to control its border. That is not in question. The problem is that some people in power want to manipulate the emotions of hard working people like you for electoral purposes. Instead of concentrating on solving the problem and going after the big interests which benefit from either the exploitation of illegal immigrants or the exporting of the poor from their countries so they don’t have to spend resources on them, they choose to propose measures which appeal to the emotions of a certain sector of the population.
That is what the Coburn Ammendment is all about. Look it up and then please tell me Joneser if denying medical assistance to the child of an immigrant who doesn’t speak English is going to help solve the illegal immigration problem.
May 24th, 2006 at 2:02 pm#58
You are right… they are working low wages.. so did my dad… but he was never angry nor felt he was owed something.. nor my girlfriend and her parents… they did what it took…
May 24th, 2006 at 2:04 pmAl made fun of Dobbs showing an article from a right-wing group about “Aztlan”
We in the Southwest have heard about “Aztlan” before. Just because some right wing-group makes a statement about it doesn’t make it not true. There are some Mexicans that believe the Southwest belongs to Mexico. Some Mexicans have stated so on AOL’s Chat Room. Even stating that if white people march against amnesty for them, they will physically attack them.
“““““““““““““““““““““`
The California Future as Northern Aztlan
Raoul Lowery Contreras
August 20, 2003
Does he (Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamante of CA) live in the United States of America or, “our Chicano and Chicano nation?†Has Cruz Bustamante rejected these words from his fellow Mechista on the Bill O‘Reilly program on the Fox News Channel on March 8, 2002.
“Gochez: We are the nation of Aztlan.
O’Reilly: All right, that’s good, you are the nation of Aztlan. That’s great. Do you want your own territory? Do you want them to give you some land?
Gochez: We understand that we are sitting on stolen land. This is indigenous land. This is native land, you know, Mexicano land.
O’Reilly: So if I gave you Arizona would you be happy with that?
Gochez: They took a lot more than Arizona.
O’Reilly: So you want more than that.”
http://www.calnews.com/archives/contreras164.htm
“““““““““““““““““““““““““
I don’t watch Fox News, but found this article went googling “Aztlan”.
May 24th, 2006 at 2:37 pmLibraries have volunteers who help people of other nations learn English. It’s free. There is no reason not to learn English, except that one does not want to learn. You can look at other populations, like the Vietnamese who have done so well.
May 24th, 2006 at 2:45 pmAnother side of this issue is that now to qualify for many jobs here in Arizona, you have to know Spanish. I’m sure that here, if someone comes to the Emergency Room, there is someone who speaks Spanish.
May 24th, 2006 at 2:49 pmIn Dallas the principals of the schools have 4 or 5 years to learn spanish or they will find someone who will?!
May 24th, 2006 at 3:07 pmCNN report tied to Righ Wing White Supremacist Group
AZTLAN Plan Debunked
May 24th, 2006 at 3:40 pmhttp://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/04/reconquista.html
“Azatlan” is a racist conspiracy perpetrated by the likes of the Council of Conservative Citizens and the KKK. It is not a national movement anymore than the “Elder Protocols of Zion” are.
Go back to your pit desertpalm. You might not wear a hood or a swastika, but don’t think for a second that we don’t see your pitiful hate-filled soul for what it truely is.
May 24th, 2006 at 5:10 pm#54
“And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life.†(Exodus 21:22-23)
Comment by Joneser — May 24, 2006 @ 10:21 am”
So even the Bible says a fetus is not a child, since if it was, accidentally causing a miscarriage would be manslaugher - thus grounds for more than a ‘fine’ - and just in case that wasn’t clear, details that the judgment cannot be ‘life for life’ for a fully destructive injury to the fetus (i.e. the fetus is not a human life by itself.).
SR
May 24th, 2006 at 6:33 pmHow about the fact that the majority of these people who do not speak english are here ILEGALLY!!! Why does the left continuely have its hands in my pocket book. We have rules and laws that need to be inforced. If you really want to live in this country, learn the language or stay in the country of your origin.
May 24th, 2006 at 9:25 pm“Azatlan†is a racist conspiracy perpetrated by the likes of the Council of Conservative Citizens and the KKK. It is not a national movement anymore than the “Elder Protocols of Zion†are.
Where are your facts. I posted where I get my information. I have heard people, who believe in it, talking about “AZATLAN”. Why did some of the signs on May 1st read that we are the aliens and are illegal, not them?
Left Wing Fox, you show you are not as sly as you might think. I said I had no trouble with bring in someone legally. Grow up. I believe in enforcing the law. When you lose your job or your pay goes down, then where are you going to go crying. Meat Packing Jobs used to pay $19 an hour, now they are $9, Tyson closed on May 1st because so many of their employees were marching. That tells you a lot. We have a National Debt over $8 trillion dollars. China and Japan own us now. Where are you going to get the money when 12 or 20 million people want benefits, some will want SSI. Last year I was in an accident caused by someone without a license, no insurance and the owner of the auto he was driving only insured his car, no liability. I’m now sitting in a wheelchair and getting $173 a month plus food stamps. My fractured leg has a bone infection…don’t know if I’m going to lose it. I’m three years away from retiring and will probably lose my house. I have never been prejudice in my life. I care about this country and the people in it. You can never be sure that everything is going to be great. Do we have enough to take care of millions more. People are losing their pensions, because corporations think it is fine to give a retiring CEO millions but quit paying former employees their pensions.
May 24th, 2006 at 10:08 pmI have some words…llevantese, ayudanos…
los me hacen loca!!!!!!!!!
APRENDAN un otra lingua, perizosos y mentirosos…
patriot gringa
May 25th, 2006 at 1:29 amdesertpalm: Here’s the proof you’ve been asking for. Sorry you had that accident and that you are undergoing finantial difficulties.
I can understand your situation but, in my opinion, we should look for the real culprits and not blame the crime on the victim. No immigrant (legal or otherwise) can control corporate greed and injustice. That is the responsibility of government institutions which at the present time are not doing their jobs. I hope things get better for you!
CNN report tied to Righ Wing White Supremacist Group
AZTLAN Plan Debunked
May 25th, 2006 at 8:33 amhttp://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/04/reconquista.html
Typo: RIGHT Wing White Supremacist Group
May 25th, 2006 at 8:40 amI remember this mandate coming up in a story about a mental health clinic where someguy ended up being treated by a Klingon translator because that’s the only language he was speaking.
Of course that could have been an urban legend.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:33 pmAnything that coburn is involved in is probably evil. To get elected he mounted the most vile inaccurate decietful campaigns ever with the full endorsement of dumbya and co..
This is the same guy that performed many many abortions before becoming pro-life. By pro-life I mean only that he wants to control womens reproductive parts.
This is the same guy that sterilized a retarded girl against her will. Dr. Mengele?
He routinely votes for legislation that is not only in poor taste, but benefits the very people that don’t need it. For example those that already have plenty of money.
This is the typical hate-filled, ill mannered, unprofessional corrupt person that comes to an elected position by utilizing all the very means that evil people will use - the ends justify the means.
I have contacted him many times to remind him who he actually works for, and he has consistantly pretended to support one issue, and votes against it later. He also informed me that he would not look into the Downing Street Memos, and the suggestion that he do so was ridiculous.
So, we have a typical biggot, racist, evil doctor willing to deny people civil rights that thinks it is more important to “protect the english language” than exploring the possiblility that we were lied into an illegal, unjust immoral war.
What a piece……of work.
June 2nd, 2006 at 6:34 pmUp to five soldiers are being investigated in the March killings, the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.
The Americans entered the Sunni Arab’s family home, separated three males from the woman, raped her and burned her body using a flammable liquid in a cover-up attempt, a military official close to the investigation said. The three males were also slain.
The soldiers had studied their victims for about a week and the attack was “totally premeditated,†the official said on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing. The family had just moved into the home in the insurgent-riddled area around Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad.
July 1st, 2006 at 8:34 amhope the parents of all our troops see the way President Bush and the GOP use this day to have fun and raise money while their children are dying for the lies. Cheney is laughing at all of us (parents of soldiers) while he got his 5 deferments. We the American people helped Satan aka Bush/Cheney/Rummy and all GOP some Dems kill our children and we did nothing about it. So we are just as wrong as this Administration. How many soldiers have to die before Bush is finished with stealing the oil.
November 20th, 2006 at 7:36 amThe Mexicans waving the Mexican flags in their march here in Phoenix show that they are serious about changing the U.S., not changing themselves to become American citizens. My Grandfather came here from Norway legally and so should they. I am against amnesty for them.
December 8th, 2006 at 5:20 ameasy make money…
Good reading! Makes my boring days at work work more pleasurable.. well.. I’m always bleating about something. Have a nice day!…
December 9th, 2006 at 3:47 amenvironmental protection agency, inventory management system, environmental law firm
December 12th, 2006 at 4:50 amimperial car hire
Although various pistonless rotary engine designs have attempted to compete with the conventional piston and crankshaft design, only
March 31st, 2008 at 10:49 pmimperial car hire
[17] Increasing costs of oil-based fuels and tightening environmental law and restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions are propelling work
March 31st, 2008 at 10:49 pm