Sen. Bill Frist on Gay Marriage and Flag Burning, America’s Most Pressing Priorities
Sen. Bill Frist on Gay Marriage and Flag Burning, America’s Most Pressing Priorities
Today on Fox News Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) tried to argue that banning flag-burning and same-sex marriage are two of the nation’s most pressing priorities, which is why he put them on the Senate agenda for June:
HOST: …Are gay marriage and flag burning the most important issues the Senate can be addressing in June of 2006?
FRIST:…When you look at that flag and you tell me that right now people in this country are saying it’s okay to desecrate that flag and to burn it and to not pay respect to it, is that important to our values as a people when we’ve got 130,000 people fighting for our freedom and liberty today? That is important. It may not be important here in Washington where people say, well, it’s political posturing and all, but it’s important to the heart and soul of the American people. … Why marriage today? Marriage is for our society that union between a man and a woman, is the cornerstone of our society. It is under attack today.
But as the Fox News host points out, these moves are nothing more than pandering to the right-wing base. Flag-burning incidents declined rapidly after 9/11 and haven’t shown any signs of rebounding. Right now, Cuba, China, and Iran are the only other countries to ban flag desecration and the issue doesn’t even show up on recent polls as an important priority for the American public.
On gay marriage, only 40 percent of the American public ranked it as an extremely or very important issue in a Feb. poll, behind eight other issues, including terrorism (89 percent), the war in Iraq (89 precent), the economy (88 percent), and health care costs (88 percent).
Looks like the “heart and soul of the American people” have different priorities, Sen. Frist.
Full transcript below.
HOST: You talk about a lot of issues that affect people’s lives. And yet you’re going to bring two constitutional amendments to the Senate floor in the next few weeks, one to ban same-sex marriage, another to ban flag-burning, both reportedly in the papers to mobilize your conservative base. I have to tell you, I talked to a Republican senator this week who said he may vote for both of them but said they’re both pandering. Are gay marriage and flag burning the most important issues the Senate can be addressing in June of 2006?
FRIST: Let me tell you what the agenda is real quick. Secure America’s safety here at home. I mentioned supporting our troops overseas, making sure we pass that supplemental bill, making sure we tighten down our borders. securing America, a healthier America, so we’ll continiue to –
HOST: All right. But —
FRIST: Let me tell you, right now there’s no prioritization there. Securing America’s values. I hope tomorrow and today as people see that American flag, and I’m going to Arlington cemetery tomorrow and I’m going to see that flag waving on every grave over there. When you look at that flag and you tell me that right now people in this country are saying it’s okay to desecrate that flag and to burn it and to not pay respect to it, is that important to our values as a people when we’ve got 130,000 people fighting for our freedom and liberty today? That is important. It may not be important here in Washington where people say, well, it’s political posturing and all, but it’s important to the heart and soul of the American people. Marriage — marriage, you asked about. Right now. Why marriage today? Marriage is for our society that union between a man and a woman, is the cornerstone of our society. It is under attack today. Right now there are 13 states who passed constitutional amendments in the last year and a half to protect marriage. Why? Because in nine states today, activist judges, unelected activist judges are tearing down state laws in nine states today. That’s why I will take it to the floor of the Senate, simply define marriage as the union between a man and a woman.
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Frist–Puppy and kitten killer.
Bad man!
May 28th, 2006 at 10:59 amYeah, in the racist, neo-connish and demented world viewed by Frist and FNC those issues are important. The problem is, no one in the REAL world agrees with them. Bill, how about Iraq, where U.S. soldiers are getting killed and maimed every day? That’s not important?
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
May 28th, 2006 at 11:05 amThe latest on the Marines massacre of Iraqi civilians at Haditha: Give us your opinion.
Right now on SSA
Cuba, Iran, China, Haiti, Nazi Germany — just the kind of freedom-loving nations I want to be associated with. Perhaps we could also aspire to spy on and imprison journalists who write about government wrongdoings — oh, wait, the AG already wants to do that. Well, I guess the Constitution was written in 1787 — this is 2006. So outdated!
May 28th, 2006 at 11:08 amthe cite on countries that ban flag burning mentions Iraq, but this is from 1998. Does Iraq now permit flag burning? And if so, this would be another instance for more freedoms for others than for Americans at home. Interesting…
May 28th, 2006 at 11:11 amShouldn’t Frist be talking about Haditha instead? Maybe he can use his remote diagnosis skills to feel the pain of the 1 year old child who was murdered with her familly.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:11 amMore of the same smoke and mirrors BS from the king and karl. Devisive, emotion filled issues of little or no substance. Keeps the country off balance, God we don’t want John Q Public to realize we really aren’t doing anything. It will be more of the same through the November elections. This is all this pathetic ilk has to offer. No answers to real problems, just nonsense.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:11 amMake fireproof flags.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:16 amOutlaw divorce.
The “two most important” problems solved!
The first idea wouldn’t be too controversial but the second would make a lot of conservatiive 2 or 3 time divorced a bit nervous.
If voters are so stupid as to actually fall for the same moral and patriotic values BS that worked for the Republicans in 2004 again, then this country just deserves all the crap that keeps coming out of Washington, and they should shut up about dissatisfaction with Congress and the President. They’re the ones who are responsible for the bastards we have running the country and, unfortunately for the rest of the world, pretty much everything else too. As for those of us who weren’t fooled either then or now, well, we just have to suffer the consequences of the majority, that’s democracy for you baby.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:18 amI am quite sure that the people of this country can see through this.
This is not a Frist thing, oh well, in a way it is, but Frist has been told by Rove and the gray house what to put on the agenda in order to move away from the negative polling of the occupant of the gray house.
An election is coming up in 5 months and the Harry Truman of this century must try and help out the pukes and believes with all his heart that the right wing will come to his aid if he protects the flag and attacks the gays.
What else has he got? The economy is doing well, but not that well. SS is dead. Gas prices are at an all time high but no one really things that this president and vice president, who are making millions off the high price of oil are going to cut their own throats, do they? Iraq is a mess, we are not fighting terrist, we are fighting insurgents. The Taliban is stronger than ever in Afghanistan. The man is a complete failure and the world knows it.
Why isnt the NY Times asking, in front page articles, when the last time the failure and the killer had sex?
May 28th, 2006 at 11:19 am#7 – ironranger – you’re right about your second point – Outlaw divorce… Funny thing is, the divorce rate is highest in the red states… Guess WHICH state has the lowest divorce rate? (You guessed it – that ONE state with legal same-sex marriage… hmmm)
May 28th, 2006 at 11:20 amSo is the author trying to say that it’s o.k. to burn the American flag?
May 28th, 2006 at 11:22 amToday on Fox News Sunday…..
Say no more.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:24 am.
Looks like the “heart and soul of the American people†have different priorities, Sen. Frist.
Well put Amanda
May 28th, 2006 at 11:33 am11 May be? Do to recent poll numbers, I think it could be assumed that Phaux news now supports flag burning
May 28th, 2006 at 11:37 amFRIST IS A QUACK.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:38 amActually I plan on burning a whole bunch of flags when my partner and I marry.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:39 amwhether you like it or not, burning the flag is covered under freedom of speech.
May 28th, 2006 at 11:42 amI personally think it’s dumb, but wasting the Senate’s time on this pointless debate is far dumber.
I live in that ONE state where same sex marriage is legal. It has not shattered the state nor turned anyone to the occult. Nothing has changed, except that some people now have the same rights as others. It, too, is a non issue.
Why marriage today? Marriage is for our society that union between a man and a woman, is the cornerstone of our society. It is under attack today.
What does that mean? Will my marriage be null and void if gay couples could marry? How?
How is the marriage of a man and a woman the cornerstone of our society? I always thought the constitution was. Who knew?
May 28th, 2006 at 11:47 am[...] Think Progress » Sen. Bill Frist on Gay Marriage and Flag Burning, America’s Most Pressing Priorities [...]
May 28th, 2006 at 12:06 pmThe GOP’s priorities are insane. And they wonder why the country thinks that they’re out of touch with the American people.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
May 28th, 2006 at 12:07 pmThe State of the Bush Administration:
Right now on LCL
as a Republican, this man embarasses me. There are so many crucial issues that face average Americans in all walks of life, to push this type of Agenda is pandering and not Leadership.
I’m sure these issues do matter to some folks, but I’d bet a solid majority in the middle want a clearer focus on the day to day struggles Americans face.
one of the blessings of being a Church goer, speaking only for myself is to weekly hear how to help your fellow man up during a struggle. I don’t embrace the concept of same sex marriage, but I’d turn to each of the two persons committed to one another and offer my best wishes for a long and joyful life.
rich
May 28th, 2006 at 12:09 pmActually I plan on burning a whole bunch of flags when my partner and I marry.
Comment by ProgressiveChristian — May 28, 2006 @ 11:39 am
Hysterical!
We can’t get a Constitutional Amendment on Equal Rights, but those that violate the actual Constitution itself – no problem? While they are at it, how about if they pass one requiring us to kneel in their presence? Or call them ‘Your Royal Majesty’? Or give them the contents of our wallets (since they take it anyway)?
Frankly – this is why Revolutions occur – the ruling class overstays its welcome…
May 28th, 2006 at 12:12 pmLiberals should feel reassured if this is the best the conservatives can come up with six months before the mid-term elections. It’s illustrative of exactly how little Republicans have to cling to. Funnier still, by raising these non-issues again, their own base is demanding to know why these issues haven’t been addressed by the Republican majority. They’re strongest cards are undercut by their own base – tell me that’s not perfect.
May 28th, 2006 at 12:19 pmScrew Frist and the gurney he rode in on……Blessings
May 28th, 2006 at 12:32 pmCan anyone provide a link to a news story where this is an issue? An actual flag burning or desecration within the U.S.? Leave out the obvious disgusting uses of the flag – furniture sales, used car sales, and proving that you are more patriotic than other news channels by using the flag as a watermark.
May 28th, 2006 at 12:45 pmIf Bill “I’m-A-Doctor” Frist were truly as committed to the Hippocratic Oath as he purports to be — although I strongly suspect that what he actually took was the Hypocritic Oath — he would say that one of the most important items facing our country today is making it possible for Americans to get the healthcare they need without going bankrupt. With ever-growing numbers of uninsured people in this country and spiraling healthcare costs, it’s becoming more and more difficult for even middle-class folks to get proper health care. Then again, for a Social Darwinist like Frist and most other neoconservative Republicans, the rising costs of healthcare are probably a positive boon — a tool with which the “less-deserving” members of the society (i.e., the poor and the working class) can gradually be winnowed out and cease to be a nuisance by dying before their time.
SHAME ON YOU, “DOCTOR”!!
May 28th, 2006 at 12:48 pmIt is sad but true. If you look at the archive for NOW, the pbs show that used to feature Bill Moyers, they have covered gay marriage. And immigration, and a number of other issues.
They have yet to uncover the true corruption that exists in this government, and yet chase down foxholes for small stories that supplant the important ones.
Why nothing on Iraq since March 31? That should be at the top of every news outlet, particularly when the president’s popularity, along with support for the war, is fading fast because people are coming to know they have been lied to.
Enough with Frist. Enough with almost everyone up there. The next elections are key. They must be the concentration right now, along with the war. We must have control of free, open and fair elections.
Has NOW covered that this important election year?
I like David, but something has changed at PBS, and they are no longer an alternative, but a strident and corrupt mouthpiece.
May 28th, 2006 at 12:49 pmHow about a law that prevents the Republican Party from shitting in the Constitution?
-GSD
May 28th, 2006 at 12:53 pmThose who are so threatened by same sex unions & think you can catch homosexuality like a cold should just ask themselves a very simple question. Do you remember when you entered puberty & realized you had to decide if you were heterosexual or homosexual? Anyone who is heterosexual would think this was the dumbest idea in the world. Heterosexuals just know they are attracted to the opposite sex & that’s that. No heterosexual could forget such a momentous decision if there was actually that kind of defining moment. I wonder how many rabid gay haters are homosexual or bi-sexual & can’t acknowledge it to themselves. The rest of them probably just plain hate anyone different from themselves.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:06 pmLaughable wedge issues for Turdblossoms like Dobson and Christian Taliban.
This PATHETIC agenda speaks volumes to their irrelevence, audacity, and ignorance. These fake christians will get aroused but too late and this wedge issue of Rove is no longer effective.
GOP in a civil war with Xenophobic bigots against corporate whores. Personally I am enjoying watching them eat their own. Once again we see the ‘compassionate conservative” face rears its ugly face.
Charlatans pushing snake oil.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:07 pmAh Dobson and his Christian Taliban have another hate issue thanks to Rove. Is that the smell of failure in the air?
So the fake christians have as a priority flag burning and “forcing” abortions, porn, gay marriage and what country do you live in a democracy or theocracy?
Such zealots can answer:
Show me where today burning a flag is underming our “war on terror”
If you don’t have an abortion, how does that affect you?
If you don’t watch porn, how does that affect you?
If you aren’t gay, how does that affect you?
Got answers?
May 28th, 2006 at 1:24 pmWhats with all of these Republicans?
Like Rove, Frist has lost alot of weight. Look at the sunken cheeks, the loosely fit suits.
A few short months ago I was starting to call Bubble boy pudgy as he was gaining a lot of weight. He’s lost it all now though.
Is there an AIDS epidemic in our government or is this just good ol fashion stress I’m seeing?
May 28th, 2006 at 1:32 pmDan,
Keeping Rove’s indictment out of the public eye is the GOP’s only agenda right now. We are being laughed at because we are being successfully distracted.
Fitz wants the media to back off on this, he’s playing tag. The indictment was sealed because Fitz believes a conspiracy took place and he is using it as a bargaining chip to get Turdblossom to rat out the rest.
Dance in the streets my fellow Americans, Rove has been indicted as reported by TruthOut. The public celebration may have to wait but feel free to begin your own party now.
And for those of you who doubt TruthOut, you are traitors and I hope you choke on a chickenwing.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:40 pmI just watched “The Big Buy” last night. It was shocking to see how Delay, Boehner, & so many of the republican mob have aged A LOT in the last few years…it was pretty striking. It must be rough on the bod to be the bullies in the sandbox.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:46 pmFrist is a cat killing idiot. I smell flop sweat coming from his general direction.
May 28th, 2006 at 1:46 pmAmerica’s most pressing priorities?
May 28th, 2006 at 1:50 pmHe is ridiculous — those are pressing priorities for the linatic fringe, right wing, fundamental salvationists that make up Frist’s (don’t forget I am a doctor and I am smart, and I can diagnose people from afar and operate on chimpanzees) audience.
Bill Frist’s behavior leads me to believe that a chimpanzee could get a medical degree. We already know one can get elected as president.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pm“Look into my eyes”
Gay’s
Gay’s
Gay’s
Gay’s
“Their coming to get you, and their coming to burn the flag, the flag I nor the President or Vice President fought for”
Gay’s
May 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pmGay’s
Gay’s
Gay’s
You’re right to point out that: “Cuba, China, and Iran are the only other countries to ban flag desecration”.
I don’t know about China and Iran but, I do know, that Cuba also bans burning the flag of any other nation including the US.
Since the revolutionary government came to power 47 years ago, there hasn’t been, to my knowledge, a single instance when the American flag has been burned publicly in Cuba. Not even at the height of American aggression against that small country.
Not even a the height of American aggression against that country
May 28th, 2006 at 2:20 pm“If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable.†— U.S. Supreme Court, Texas v. Johnson, 1989.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:20 pmSorry, I repeated myself twice!
May 28th, 2006 at 2:23 pmThe flag burning amendment, and purple-heart bandages; these guys are only “patriotic” when it suits their purposes.
What I find more unpatriotic than flag burning, is the commercialization of the flag. At least when someone burns the flag, they are making a coherent political statement, but what sort of statement is made by putting the flag on consumables, which ensures the flag will inevitaby end up in the dumpster, mixed in with other garbage, and lying on roadsides with trash and roadkill. Definitely not the intended use of the flag. Party supplies, like paper plates and napkins, smeared with the products of the consumer society, are about as respectful to the flag and its meaning as Abbie Hoffman’s diaper. But since they can make a buck off it (ironically, by importing the stuff from China) they’re willing to overlook this bit of national sacrilege. Those purple-heart bandaids cover the festered truth; republicans, like the Tories of old, are only patriotic when it suits their agenda.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:23 pmMaybe Mr. Frist could have Ms. Cheyney, Andrew Sullivan, and the Log Cabin Repuppetcans in the Senate during the debate.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pmFrist’s mid-term strategy of “fags, flags and fetuses” is just one reason why the “Conservative Threat Level” has been raised.
The Conservative Threat Level is now:
May 28th, 2006 at 2:37 pm- Orange/High: Church and State to Merge
Comment by ericnh — May 28, 2006 @ 11:08 am
Certainly entitled to your opinion.
Now, please tell me which countries you are willing to be associated with?
Just to let you know, my motto is: If you kick my dog, I’m going to shoot yours!
May 28th, 2006 at 2:37 pmWatch out for those marriage attackers!
They hide in waiting when you and your sweetheart drive down to the courthouse to get a marriage license. When the two of you get out of your car, they attack you!
Actually, isn’t marriage under attack from adultry and divorce? Hmmm Fristy?
As far as flag burning is concerned, who cares? Make the flags out of flame resistant material if you don’t want them burned.
I’m more concerned about our Constitution being trampled and burned by Bush/Cheney and their Congressional enablers.
May 28th, 2006 at 2:58 pmSomeone needs to tell Frist that “we” are not fighting for “our freedom” in Iraq. If we were fighting for our freedom, we would be holding Congress and the President accountable for trashing the Constitution at every opportunity. Because, without the protections of the Consitution, there will be no more freedom for us, and by extension, very little left over for the rest of the world which has, up until this Administration and Congress, served as protector and inspiration for other countries fighting tyrants.
Now, we have our own tyrants to fight against. Write and call your elected officials and vote the corrupt out of office.
May 28th, 2006 at 4:05 pmIf that’s what the right wants to run on, I say let ‘em. People are a lot less pissed off by the idea of married gays burning the flag than they are at the pump.
——
May 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pmhttp://griperblade.blogspot.com – grumblings from the heartland
The mere fact the Bill Frist is the best the Republicans could do for a senate leader tells you all you need to know about why this country is so screwed up.
May 28th, 2006 at 5:33 pmAnyone here ever get the impression that Frist goes home and watches himself on the TIVO, and collapses in a blubbering heap?
May 28th, 2006 at 5:34 pmSUE THE BASTARD FOR MALPRACTICE!!!
May 28th, 2006 at 6:18 pmBill Frist obsessed with nonsense!
May 28th, 2006 at 6:35 pmI hope that “The Good Fairy†gets into his pant
I’ll tell you why marriage is under attack, Sen. Dick-Head Frist.
It’s because of people like my father who between 1975 and 1983 (and perhaps even before that) couldn’t keep his penis in his pants instead of sharing it with God knows how many other women other than my mother. The last straw was when he confessed to having an affair with a woman who was our neighbor, and after he had no explanation as to why he did what he did and refused marriage counseling to save his family.
The way I see it, if you suddenly realize you don’t love your wife any more, then fine. Get counseling or get out of the marriage. But don’t go f__k every woman that catches your eye and then come home expecting a home cooked meal and folded laundry.
Same-sex relationships and marriages affect nobody other than the nosey-ass people who want to make it their business and who want to tell others how to live their lives.
Same-sex marriage did not cause my father to go astray.
Same-sex marriage did not cause my father, as I learned for the first time yesterday, to tell Mom that he expected her to sell the house and split the profit with him after she kicked his sorry ass out.
Screw you, Sen. Frist.
May 28th, 2006 at 7:19 pmWhy doesn’t Bill Frist say what he really means. He wants to merge “flag burning” and opposition to gay marriage. Merge the two, and complete the syllogism.
BILL FRIST SUPPORTS *** BURNING
May 28th, 2006 at 7:21 pmyes, greggp reveals the true republican agenda:
support gay burning and flag marriage.
because gays are sinful and flags are more important than freedom.
i notice jackass tommy is here.
tommy, do you support american flag boxers and briefs? i used to have a pair, and to tell the truth, i never felt guilty when i farted through them.
i think the founding fathers would’ve been ok with that, don’t you?
May 28th, 2006 at 9:10 pmI emailed him. You have to have a Tennessee address to email him even though he is the Senate leader. I used KFC. After all he is a chicken.
May 28th, 2006 at 9:38 pmYou know, this how anti-gay stuff is really perplexing. Here are some major flaws with the bible thumping right wing nazi views:
1. NO gay person CHOOSES to be gay. It would be analogous to choosing to be handicapped or a quadrapalegic.
2. Being gay is NOT A LIFESTYLE. You can’t change it like some cheap shirt.
3. Not only is it perposterous to think that gay people are that way by choice, but it is even MORE proposterous, even moronic, to think that ALL gay people, for their entire adult lives, choose to be gay. Now, and throughout all of history.
4. I do not see how gay marriage threatens this so called “institute of marriage”. If a straight couple is happy, then nothing can come between them. If one of them is tempted to play in the other playground, then….. hummmm… is that a gay person’s fault?
5. I’d like an address to the Institute of Marriage please. If someone has one, please post it.
6. Religion doesn’t cure homosexuality. If anything, it causes more closet cases and abuses than anything else.
7. Every preacher, every Sunday school teacher, every deacon has a gay relative or friend. Do they condem them to death or love them?
8. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Yeah, right. So, do you love as murdurers? Do you love child killers? If you answered Yes, then you’re talking out of your ass. If you answered No, then you’re just a bigot. You can’t hate the sin and love the sinner. It’s rediculouis and is merely a poor attempt to pander to an audience that you don’t care about (or love) to begin with.
9. ALL OF YOU STRAIGHT PEOPLE WHO HATE GAY PEOPLE ARE JUST CLOSET CASES ANYWAY
May 28th, 2006 at 9:45 pmI have said this for months, they won for crying out loud the 2004 Presidential election because of gay marriage, they are going to do it again. If this gets them the win in November, then when this country gets worse and worse thanks to the Idiot in Chief, I will be out there laughing, laughing at all the suckers and saying you deserve this because that is what you deserve. You wanted it and you get no sympathy from me, just me laughing at your pathetic self for falling for the same shit this time.
May 28th, 2006 at 10:35 pmmgooder,
mostly accurate, but not quite. before you pass judgement, be aware that i have many friends and two close relatives that are gay. i hold no biases.
your first point (”NO gay person CHOOSES to be gay”) is actually not completely true. while i agree that is most often the case, i have also known people that have, in fact, chosen to be gay, even if for just a short period of time. in these cases, it was because they had a bad experience with the opposite sex, they were deliberately trying to get back at someone, or they were just experimenting or dissatisfied with the results of their emotional and physical desires. some went on to realize that it was just a “phase” they were going through, while others continued with the lifestyle (or chose bisexuality).
so yes, then to refute your point number 2, being gay is most certainly, for some people, a lifestyle, and nothing more.
i know, you’re argument is going to be ‘those people aren’t really gay, then’. but that’s the point – how many “gay” people today are actually gay? my experience with the homosexual community is that certain people can and do change their mind about their orientation. not nearly all of them, but certainly some.
don’t get me wrong – for the most part i agree with you, especially about the institute of marriage. i just think it’s almost impossible to be absolute about many aspects of human nature, sexual orientation being one of them. and in this case it doesn’t help your argument to make absolute statements that are clearly disprovable (actually i think your point 3 is almost conceding this).
but then you make point 9, which is just an attack and wrecks your credibility. open-minded people don’t have to believe or say things like that.
May 28th, 2006 at 10:38 pm[...] I’ll let you read for yourself: Think Progress » Sen. Bill Frist on Gay Marriage and Flag Burning, America’s Most Pressing Priorities [...]
May 29th, 2006 at 12:17 amProgressaurus Rex
I can assure that the percentage of people who choose to be gay to get back at someone has got to be very low and isolated occurance. While it appears you’ve made some attempt at accepting the fact that gay people are just people, I think you’ve missed my underlying message. As a gay person, I can tell you that being this way is not a choice by any stretch of the imagination.
You’ve misinterpretted point # 3. Read it again. I don’t see anything that can be DISPROVEN about the statment. The point is that it goes against all logic to assume that all gay people, throughout human history, choose….. every day…. all day… to be gay. It’s simply not that simple. It is NOT a CHOICE any more than being black or white, male or female.
May 29th, 2006 at 12:29 amMake fireproof flags.
Outlaw divorce.
The “two most important†problems solved!
The first idea wouldn’t be too controversial but the second would make a lot of conservatiive 2 or 3 time divorced a bit nervous.
Comment by ironranger —
About 10 days ago I e-mailed Sen. Frist ( #56 Enja, I did this without a Tennessee address, though things may have changed thereafter) that I didn’t think my marriage was in danger because of same sex couples and that the Senate should have more important matters to tend to. I also wrote that a friend of mine recently got divorced because her husband cheated on her, but that I didn’t really expect Congress to ban adultery (or divorce), which is far more of a threat to heterosexual marriage than same sex couples– even Mary Cheney and her partner–, since that would involve too many members of the GOP.
May 29th, 2006 at 1:53 amAfter that I started getting friendly “Dear Lora” e-mail from Frist’s office. I sent another e-mail saying that I didn’t think Senator First is in any more position to address me as “Lora” than I am to call him “Bill” and also reiterated some of his many actions that I have found egregious. I still continued to receive “Dear Lora” e-mail. It seems that no one in his office actually pays attention to the content of the e-mail received , or else like spammers they’ just pick up every e-mail address they find. By contrast, when I send e-mail to my own Senators and Congressman, if I get an answer at all, it does deal with the issue I brought up. Senator Feinstein’s office is more diligent about answering e-mail than Barbara Boxer’s, though I prefer the way the latter Senator tends to vote. As for the e-mail from Frist, I finally felt I had no choice but to click the “unsubscribe” button. I suppose at least, unlike the “unsubscribe” click on spam mail I never subscribed to, this one may actually work. We’ll see.
mgooder,
like i said, for the most part, i agree with you. i just think there are exceptions to the biological cause, as i mentioned above. i do think that the vast majority of gay people are not “choosing” to be gay. i accept that biologically, people are predisposed to being one way or another.
but i also accept that some people are complete phonies (no matter how they represent themselves), and within any subset of people, there are those that are just lost souls, trying to fit in anywhere they can. this is true even amongst the gay community.
i think your point 3 corresponds to what i said, is all. i’m not saying that it can be disproven. however, for it to be true, it would actually mean that points 1 & 2 can be disproven (because they are absolute).
May 29th, 2006 at 2:37 amWhat else can Republicans run on ?
War on Terror ? Nope
May 29th, 2006 at 4:24 amFiscal Managment ? Nope
Economy ? Nope
Enviroment ? Nope
Ethics and Intergrity ? Nope
what an ass!!!! Flag burning and gay marriage are the most important issues facing America today!!!! Let me think, I am just a hick from South Dakota but when I think of the most important issues facing America I think, in no particular order, of the war in Iraq, the deficit, social security/medicare, disaster readiness, global warming, education, outsourcing of jobs, monopolies——but I guess Frist is supposed to be an intelligent guy, so who am I, the hick, to argue with the fact that my life is better off if I don’t let my gay neighbors get married or burn the flag!!!!! I sleep so much better at night knowing that people like Bush, Frist, Cheney, Rummie, Rove and all the Bush mafia are in charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 29th, 2006 at 8:24 amProgressaurus Rex
Points 1 has been proven for lesbians. It is also simply a another way to state point 3. Gay people don’t choose…. every day, for all of their adult lives…. to be gay. It’s absurd to think that they would. What part of that don’t you get?
Point #2. It’s completely self explanatory. Being a homosexual is not merely a lifestyle choice. The word “lifestyle” has been a created as a talking point by the religious right to misrepresent being gay as more of a choice than a state or condition. Being gay is no more of a ‘Lifestyle’ than being white or black. Now, it is absolutely true that some gay people choose to be flamboyant. It’s more of an accent than anything else. Kinda like speaking ebonics or something. It is learned behaviour. However, the actual attraction to the same sex is not learned behaviour. It’s instinctive… wired in…. brain locked. Can’t be “cured” no matter how much praying or scripture you throw at it. (PS to all you bible thumping nut cases: If you think that religion can cure homosexulality then you probably also think that the Earth is flat. Welcome to the real world)
May 29th, 2006 at 11:07 amProgressaurus Rex ,
Think about this….. Have you noticed how little time the media has spint (nearly zero) on the discoveries about a lesbian brain? Why do you think that is? If a genetic cause was found, do you think that attitudes towards homosexuals would suddenly change?
Well, here’s the way I see it happening. Sometime soon, a genetic link will be discovered to establish homosexuality as a trait. Hatred towards gays will continue, and will prove to me and the rest of the civlized world that all this time… all this hate… all of this violence…. George Bushtard’s re-election…. was based on nothing more than bigotry. Plain, simple, old fashion KKK bigotry.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:11 amProgressaurus Rex
One last comment. Ask any straight person if they remember the day when they made a choice between Gay or Straight. Want to guess what 99% of them will say?
May 29th, 2006 at 11:14 amBlue state blues
My hearts tore up and I got the blues
Red State Blue State….it’s all bad news
I just wanna feel the love. And do the right thing
But the red state boys and girls just want a fling
Sometimes it’s cloudy, sometimes it’s not.
I sort a like the ups and downs, change is all we got
But the red state iron would keep a cloudy day
no stinkin flip flop weather, is what they’d say
Helpin out my brother , thinking things through
is good enough fer me and it’s color is blue
I’m gonna flip flop my way to love, sort it all out
till a true way shines clear fer me and you
My hearts tore up and I got the blues
Red State Blue State….it’s all bad news
suzanne
May 29th, 2006 at 11:37 am# 66-67-68:
I agree with you both,however,I’m a little closer to P.R.s prognosis.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:42 am#7. Great comment from the great white north.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:55 amSorry to hear that, agreeable. So…. did you choose to be straignt? Tell us about that day.
May 29th, 2006 at 12:04 pmIf flag burning is banned, how are we supposed to respectfully dispose of our flags?
I was taught that one is supposed to burn a worn flag.
http://www.scouting.org/media/flag/index.html
http://www.scouting.org/media/flag/07.html
“Destroying Worn-Out Flags
When the national flag is worn beyond repair, burn it thoroughly and completely on a modest, but blazing, fire.
This should be done in a simple manner with dignity and respect. Be sure the flag is reduced to ashes unrecognizable as a former flag.”
May 29th, 2006 at 1:59 pmBut where will the electorate be? Will this finally be the beginning of an era where people don’t fall headfirst into the arms of any politician who ignores the real problems of the nation and the world to promise legislation on social issues nobody cares about the rest of the year?
May 29th, 2006 at 3:04 pmBill Frist is so far behind, he thinks he’s first. The flag is a cloth, it stands for whatever you believe it stands for…nothing more, nothing less. Gay marriage is an individual choice, it’s not a political position. Frist and all his bully republicans don’t have the balls nor the common sense to understand what freedom really is. We’re not fighting for this country’s freedom in Iraq. That’s plain pure bullshit! Our freedom is being attacked by what’s happening here in the USA. Spying on citizens, taking away individual rights, changing the constitution so that it favors a religious cult and it’s followers, attacking free speech, free press, etc., etc., etc.
Real Americans who believe in what FREEDOM really means need to replace this republican, right wing theocracy in November. Enough of this domination by those who would impose their religious values and bigoted opinions on true freedom.
May 29th, 2006 at 4:25 pmSenator Frist may be a good surgeon, but he is a few bricks shy of a load if he truly believes flag burning and gay marriage are the two most important issued that this nation must resolve! What stupidity and pandering to the ultra conservatives. Making flags fireproof and outlawing divorce is the best idea I’ve read!! Thanks.
Re e-mailing or calling Dr. Frist’s office-try getting a response from Senator Dole’s office!! I’ve called and e-mailed to no avail. I suppose that’s because Liddy is too busy doing things in states other than NC…like stumping for Republicans up for election. She was for sale the day she was elected. Bottom line, our “public servants” don’t really give a damn.
May 29th, 2006 at 4:36 pmHow did the people of Tenn ever elect FristFist? Oh yeah, I forgot, they’re stupid rednecks who drive p/u trucks.
May 29th, 2006 at 4:41 pmNow that Frist and other tone deaf conservatives have done their part for the more privileged amongst us, they want to render their services to the more hateful amongst us with their anti-immigrant, anti-gay anti-woman agenda.
May 29th, 2006 at 7:57 pmBurning the Flag…
Flag burning: freedom of speech, or a crime? This moderate says it is neither….
May 29th, 2006 at 11:07 pmRepublicans used “Gay Marriage” as a major campaign issue in 2004, to get the ‘fundies’ to come out and vote their prejudices, to get Bush re-selected. They have been irate, as of late, due to thelack of action on their ‘issues’, and are threatening to withhold their votes in 06, if they don’t see some progress soon. They feel used. Awwww…. bummer for them. The flag? It’s an easy one, and popular with the ‘Patriots’, a “no-brainer”, as it were. They LOVE the easy ones, but this one seems to keep coming back. Why is that? And wasn’t Mrs.Clinton already on this one? And Senator Frist, how is that investigation of you going? I haven’t heard much, lately. Keep me posted, ok? I care.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:20 am# 72 mgooder
I don’t think P.R. was implying that it was always choice.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:23 amQuite the contrary;but they did say it could be a choice in some instances.
Wnat if the Flag was made in china? Or in a sweatshop in Delay ville? Wouldn’t be an American Flag now would it?
FRIST:…When you look at that flag and you tell me that right now people in this country are saying it’s okay to desecrate that flag and to burn it
“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,†Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!
“Stop flyiing the ‘merikun flag in my face,†Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of cloth!
So what’s the difference Mr Frist?
May 30th, 2006 at 4:07 amYou care more for the Flag than the Gotdamm Paper Frist?
Without the Paper, FRIST, whats the point of having the Flag?
Mr. Frist would have an easier time selling ther flag-burning issue is he would add to the amendment a clause requiring the production of American flags be done by American citizens (only) and within America’s borders and made of American grown fiber. I think it cheapens the symbolism of the flag to have it mass produced of cheap materials by people who do not share our values.
Things I intend to keep and value, I build myself whenever possible. Symbolisms without personal input are meaningless.
I’m surprised that Mr. Frist hasn’t yet claimed to have heard reports of gay newlyweds burning flags on their honeymoons.
What an ass!
May 30th, 2006 at 8:05 amYou know, in psychological context, Maszlow never finsihed his pyramid…
There’s been speculation as to what he would have put at the top of it – love, awareness, thought, intellect. But, men like Bill Frist lead me to wonder if it wouldn’t have been something else…
People like Frist and Hastert and Cheney and Bush and Rumsfeld and so on, have all their needs met and more. So what do these men with no needs do? Not love, not awareness, not thought or intellect. They destroy.
Maybe it’s good to want for something…
May 30th, 2006 at 9:05 amGood post, Unbelievable.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:07 amMaslow, indeed, did leave the ‘top’ of his
pyramid undefined, and I also think
you nailed it…what other reason would explain
someone so firmly planting ‘head up ass’ to BS
people into what priorities are? Destroying people,
laws, traditions, The Constitution, you name it, has
been the only tradition these crooks have established,
other than piss poor management & intelligence.
Bill Frist & Rick Sanitarium are poster boys for the New
Right. Pathetic, self-absorbed, narcissists constantly
positioning themselves for more public attention.
Let’s give them some attention! Vote them out fo office!
Let’s give them some attention! Vote them out fo office!
Comment by Zimzone — May 30, 2006 @ 10:07 am
I couldn’t agree more. Even if we’ll be replacing existing crooks with future crooks, perhaps showing them the revolving door of the public voting system will straighten some of them up just enough to keep our country from complete and utter destruction?
My concern still remains that the fear of the Average Joe is still much greater than the pain of his reality. As long as he is relatively okay – he has no motivation for change. I’m just worried as to what his threshold for action will actually be…
May 30th, 2006 at 10:33 amthat if burning a flag is free speech, then burning a car would also be the same, as you could just as well be “expressing†yourself by burning a car.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 10:00 am
As long as it is YOUR flag, car, couch, bag or garbage – and you have the proper permits – it is legal to burn things. You just can’t burn other people’s things (not that it stopped Hitler).
Really Seixon, the comparision is weak. Because the issue is weak. Shouldn’t we be focusing on bigger issues than whether or not burning a tablecloth is legal? Things like the Iraq Quagmire… The Taliban Resurrection… The condition of New Orleans… Global Warming… the national deficit… $3 a gallon gasoline… and the usual standbies we neglect routinely – starvation, disease, and genocide…
May 30th, 2006 at 10:40 amunbelievable,
Yes, it is perfectly legal to burn your own property, something I wrote on my blog already. That doesn’t mean doing so is “speech”. It’s apparent that people here at Think Progress don’t bother actually reading my argument, but rather assume what it is and go from there.
The comparison is weak? Why? If I hate Honda, and I burn a Honda to “express” it, how is that different than burning a flag to “express” that I hate what the flag symbolizes? It’s no different at all, although I doubt anyone would defend burning cars as free speech.
And yes, unbelievable, we should be focusing on other things than this. If you read my blog, you’d see that I’m not the rightwinger you have worked yourself up into thinking I am. My conclusion to the issue was the following:
Bill Frist – spend your time on something else.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:46 amLiberals – burning a flag is not freedom of speech, and banning the practice is not “draconian”.
# 92 Seixon:
Some people just like to pigeon-hole others,it makes their all-knowing argument easier for them to make.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:44 pm.
although I doubt anyone would defend burning cars as free speech.
Based on what – your own personal opinion? It’s still a weak comparision because the end results are the same from burning either – nothing. My point is that it is a moot point. And that there are bigger issues to discuss. Let people burn flags if they want. It doesn’t hurt anyone else – espcially the way bombs and bullets do.
And yes, unbelievable, we should be focusing on other things than this. If you read my blog, you’d see that I’m not the rightwinger you have worked yourself up into thinking I am.
I know you claim to be a moderate. But I don’t have to work up anything. You regularly post comments here that are consistent with the conservative view point.
Liberals – burning a flag is not freedom of speech, and banning the practice is not “draconianâ€.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 11:46 am
See… conservative. You think you can stop at flag burning? Don’t you think the Founding Fathers deserve some credit in their perspective on the matter? And don’t you think history should be considered first before it is discarded? Because that history tells us that tyranny begins with one step over the line…
May 30th, 2006 at 1:32 pmSome people have no argument, so they just go around ad hominem attacking those who do.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:34 pmIf Bill “I’m-A-Doctor†Frist were truly as committed to the Hippocratic Oath as he purports to be — although I strongly suspect that what he actually took was the Hypocritic Oath — he would say that one of the most important items facing our country today is making it possible for Americans to get the healthcare they need without going bankrupt.
SHAME ON YOU, “DOCTORâ€!!
Comment by Bluestocking #26
Actually Blue,
You’re right on BOTH counts…
…you see Frist was actually “FOR” being a compassionate doctor…
…before being “AGAINST” it…
May 30th, 2006 at 1:41 pmwhat else do you need to realize what is happening in the beautiful America?
It’s time for the People in the United States to wake up…
“Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitherâ€
May 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pmBenjamin franklin
unbelievable,
Sorry, I’ve never, ever heard anyone argue that burning a car is “speech”. Feel free to find an example in case law to prove me wrong.
My point is that it is a moot point. And that there are bigger issues to discuss. Let people burn flags if they want. It doesn’t hurt anyone else – espcially the way bombs and bullets do.
It’s not a moot point, because burning a flag is not “speech”, which is a point I wanted to make. As far as allowing people to burn flags, that’s fine by me.
I know you claim to be a moderate. But I don’t have to work up anything. You regularly post comments here that are consistent with the conservative view point.
Such as? Being a supporter of regime-change in Iraq has nothing to do with being conservative, moderate, or liberal. What else are you going to point to? Me instructing you and others that Think Progress lies to you on a continual basis? That’s “conservative” to do? Alrighty then! When you see the world in black and white, I can see how you see me as a conservative. In other words, if I disagree with you, I must be on the other side. To you, apparently, there exist no people in the middle who will disagree with the Left.
See… conservative. You think you can stop at flag burning? Don’t you think the Founding Fathers deserve some credit in their perspective on the matter? And don’t you think history should be considered first before it is discarded? Because that history tells us that tyranny begins with one step over the line…
Eh, WTF? Let me just quote from my blog post, which you evidently have not read at all because you are an incurious left-wing dupe:
This is what I wrote. Look at what you wrote about me. Feel like a moron yet?
You still haven’t even gotten past your dense brain that I am AGAINST a flag desecration ban. What does it take to get through to you people? The brainwashing seems to be solid as rock around these parts.
I say I oppose a flag desecration ban, write an entire blog post saying so, and here comes liberal dupe unbelievable and acts like I support one.
Get a friggin clue dude. Jesus.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:25 pmHow is it possible for these amazingly ignorant and hateful people to be in position of power? If you honestly think that flag burning and gay marriage are more important issues than the unneccessary loss of human life in Iraq, constant attack on civil rights, and soring economic debt…you have no concern for humanity. We are well on our way to fascism…and I thought that this was the land of the free.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:27 pm“Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitherâ€
Benjamin franklin
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/
May 30th, 2006 at 2:29 pm[...] FRIST:…When you look at that flag and you tell me that right now people in this country are saying it’s okay to desecrate that flag and to burn it and to not pay respect to it, is that important to our values as a people when we’ve got 130,000 people fighting for our freedom and liberty today? That is important. It may not be important here in Washington where people say, well, it’s political posturing and all, but it’s important to the heart and soul of the American people. … Why marriage today? Marriage is for our society that union between a man and a woman, is the cornerstone of our society. It is under attack today. Read On [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 2:35 pmSorry, I’ve never, ever heard anyone argue that burning a car is “speechâ€. Feel free to find an example in case law to prove me wrong.
What? Case law? No wonder you’re so serious about everything.
Actually, you have to prove that it isn’t in case law – not the other way around. Law is about telling you what you can’t do (you can’t murder, steal, assault, etc.). So you have to show that it isn’t.
So, my example is the fact that there is no law saying it isn’t.
(like how I used your own irrational logic against you? :)
It’s not a moot point, because burning a flag is not “speechâ€, which is a point I wanted to make. As far as allowing people to burn flags, that’s fine by me.
Hair spiltting on defintions Seixon? Please. Again – it is a moot issue because it doesn’t hurt anyone.
Such as? Being a supporter of regime-change in Iraq has nothing to do with being conservative, moderate, or liberal. What else are you going to point to? Me instructing you and others that Think Progress lies to you on a continual basis?
Sure it does. Liberals by definition are about living and let living.
That’s “conservative†to do? Alrighty then! When you see the world in black and white, I can see how you see me as a conservative. In other words, if I disagree with you, I must be on the other side. To you, apparently, there exist no people in the middle who will disagree with the Left.
I don’t see the world in black and white. I didn’t call you a neocon. I called you a conservative. That’s a shade of grey. And in the spectrum of people – you are conservative on most issues more than not.
Eh, WTF? Let me just quote from my blog post, which you evidently have not read at all because you are an incurious left-wing dupe:
As, name calling – you really have no argument Seixon. And no I don’t read your sanctimony. I don’t value your opinion enough to click the link. Besides, I’m at Think Progress – where you post – not the other way around.
This is what I wrote. Look at what you wrote about me. Feel like a moron yet?
Nope. You are highly naive, and ignorant on life. I’m guessing you are still too young to understand what I am talking about. Or to realize that it is you who routinely acts like the dope.
You still haven’t even gotten past your dense brain that I am AGAINST a flag desecration ban. What does it take to get through to you people? The brainwashing seems to be solid as rock around these parts.
No, I got it. We were arguing over whether or not it was a valid point and whether or not it is protected by the First Amendment. Most people are far smarter than you think you are.
I say I oppose a flag desecration ban, write an entire blog post saying so, and here comes liberal dupe unbelievable and acts like I support one.
No one but you would get that. And then pitch a temper tantrum over it. My blood pressure is still at normal.
Get a friggin clue dude. Jesus.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 2:25 pm
You first, dude. I’m a woman. And I don’t believe in Jesus…
May 30th, 2006 at 3:23 pmI wouldn’t allow that dipshit to put a band aid on a blister.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:48 pmThis guy is just like the character Bob Rumson from the movie, “The American President”, and that line in the same move that goes; “Bob’s problem isn’t that he doesn’t get it, it’s that he can’t sell it”. I couldn’t agree more when it come to the pandering that Sen. Frist is doing to try to run for President. They talk about Hillary Clinton not having a core. McCain and Frist seem to have lost their minds lately. When all else fails break out he Gay bashing and anti flag burning speech. That ship has sailed my friend and you missed the boat. The only thing that will save the Republican in November and 08 is Democrats.
The Republican party is a big ship with no one at the helm. It floats but has not destination. The rudder has been jammed by all of the hypocritical political they have played for the past 8 years. If those fools in the so called, “Red States don’t wake up we will be leaving in a dictatorhsip run by Republicans. They don’t give a damn about the American people for the Constitution. Just look at how they have backed this President even when he takes away our freedoms and tears up the Constitution like a piece of trash. If those uptight, I don’t want no minorities living in my neighborhood, I’ve got my flag flying, I don’t understand democracy, I’m to stupid to think before I vote, idiots don’t wake up, we won’t have any rights left. I’ve been under the impression that these people just didn’t get it, but I was wrong, they get it, they think you can trust government.
It is obvious to me that Ronald Reagan the champion of the Right wing would be turning over in his grave if he could, after seeing this fool erode our rights because of fear of terrorism and a hunger of absolute power. This administration is power crazy and they need to be held in check by a Democratic Congress. If Bill Clinton had done half the things Bush has done, I’d vote to impeach him and I’m a Democrat.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:55 pm[...] Bill Frist thinks gay marriage and flag burning are the most important issues facing the country. What about train robberies and speakeasies?! [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 4:15 pmunbelievable,
You’d only have to find a single case where someone argued that burning a car was “speech”. You said that I couldn’t be sure that no one had done so, but the only way to settle it is if you actually come up with an example of that being done. Did you? No, of course not.
Hair spiltting on defintions Seixon? Please. Again – it is a moot issue because it doesn’t hurt anyone.
No one gets hurt by watching a movie, does that mean that talking about said movie is a moot issue? LOL. The issue was that burning a flag does not constitute “speech”, which is not a moot issue if you are discussing flag burning.
Sure it does. Liberals by definition are about living and let living.
Except for those who Saddam enjoyed murdering, having abortions, and killing old people. Right? LOL. So in other words, you’re saying that liberals never support war? Or what? You’re walking into dangerous territory there.
I don’t see the world in black and white. I didn’t call you a neocon. I called you a conservative. That’s a shade of grey. And in the spectrum of people – you are conservative on most issues more than not.
How the hell do you know? You don’t know me at all. Name some of these issues then. I am conservative on some issues, but I am liberal on others. Aka, a moderate. I asked you to prove this on the issues, and you haven’t even named any or my alleged position on them. What a hoot.
As, name calling – you really have no argument Seixon. And no I don’t read your sanctimony. I don’t value your opinion enough to click the link. Besides, I’m at Think Progress – where you post – not the other way around.
OK. So how in the world do you know what I feel about the issue if you haven’t read what I said about it? Obviously you don’t value my opinion, but that is only because it is not 100% the same as your own. In some parts of the world, that’s what you call ignorance.
Nope. You are highly naive, and ignorant on life. I’m guessing you are still too young to understand what I am talking about. Or to realize that it is you who routinely acts like the dope.
WTF are you talking about? You implied I said something which is 100% opposite of what I actually have been arguing, and now I’m the dope? Naive and ignorant? Why? Can you substantiate anything??
You were writing as if I had argued for banning desecrating the flag, when in fact, I had proposed exactly the opposite. Instead of just admitting to this, you call me names. How low can you go?
No, I got it. We were arguing over whether or not it was a valid point and whether or not it is protected by the First Amendment. Most people are far smarter than you think you are.
100% BS. You wrote:
See… conservative. You think you can stop at flag burning? Don’t you think the Founding Fathers deserve some credit in their perspective on the matter? And don’t you think history should be considered first before it is discarded? Because that history tells us that tyranny begins with one step over the line…
Here you are (1) implying that I think I can stop flag burning and (2) implying that I want to discard the history of being able to burn the flag. Neither position was true, as I demonstrated I had written on my blog. You’ve already admitted you didn’t even read what I wrote, so how in the world do you get off calling me a conservative according to this issue, and how do you know what I want?
You are being nothing but disingenuous here, pretending that you didn’t say what you said. Everyone can read it. What is wrong with you?
No one but you would get that. And then pitch a temper tantrum over it. My blood pressure is still at normal.
Uh, you called me a conservative and asked me how I think I can stop flag burning. LOL.
You made an ass out of yourself by assuming something about me without even reading my opinion, and now you are lying about it. I guess I shouldn’t have expected more out of you.
You first, dude. I’m a woman. And I don’t believe in Jesus…
Here I thought that women were more attentive to details. I guess I was wrong.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:27 pmI occasionally read and watch what the right wing and/or even the Republican party have to say about things, and every time I have to wonder: What planet do they live on? It certainly isn’t the same one where I and most of the rest of the world live. I’m willing to accept that honest people can disagree, but the places these folks go are completely divorced from reality.
Then again, Einstein said that doing the same thing and expecting an different outcome was the definition of insanity.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:32 pmYou’d only have to find a single case where someone argued that burning a car was “speechâ€. You said that I couldn’t be sure that no one had done so, but the only way to settle it is if you actually come up with an example of that being done. Did you? No, of course not.
Seixon, you were talking about your opinion, and i was responding in that context. then suddenly you are bringing case law up (i.e. changing the goal posts in the middle of the game to your advantage).
No, I didn’t look for one. Because, as I’ve maintained, it’s a moot point.
No one gets hurt by watching a movie, does that mean that talking about said movie is a moot issue? LOL. The issue was that burning a flag does not constitute “speechâ€, which is not a moot issue if you are discussing flag burning.
In the grand scheme of things, discussing a movie is pretty much inconsequential. Same as flag burning. It’s an action that is conisdered ‘free speech’ by most people because it is making a statement. ‘Is it actually speech by definition’ is what you are arguing and it is an assinine argument in comparision to other issues (which I listed in part above).
Except for those who Saddam enjoyed murdering, having abortions, and killing old people. Right? LOL. So in other words, you’re saying that liberals never support war? Or what? You’re walking into dangerous territory there.
Your examples are ludacrious… As usual. Try to pay attention – your rights end where they begin to harm me. Live and let live works within those boundaries. Capisce? In very rare and extreme situations is intevention necessary. Stop with the absolutes Seixon – we are talking in generalities because otherwise conversations to include caveats would take days. Stop turning something general into some myopic absolute. Okay?
How the hell do you know? You don’t know me at all. Name some of these issues then. I am conservative on some issues, but I am liberal on others. Aka, a moderate. I asked you to prove this on the issues, and you haven’t even named any or my alleged position on them. What a hoot.
Because you aren’t imporatnat enough to me to be more than a general memory. You’re habitually defending Bush, fighting with the more intelligent liberals around here, and always whining about petty issues. No sense of humor – overly serious – and really, I’ve tried hard to find something liberal about you, but it hasn’t come up yet.
OK. So how in the world do you know what I feel about the issue if you haven’t read what I said about it?
You’ve posted enough here to make it pretty clear. Again – people are smarter than you think you are.
Obviously you don’t value my opinion, but that is only because it is not 100% the same as your own. In some parts of the world, that’s what you call ignorance.
No, I don’t value your opinion because you are very close-minded on the issues I’ve seen you discuss. You get all pissy whenever I’ve tried to have a conversation with you, and you take everything so seriously you’re sure to have a heart attack by 40.
WTF are you talking about? You implied I said something which is 100% opposite of what I actually have been arguing, and now I’m the dope? Naive and ignorant? Why?
No I didn’t. I was arguing the nuances of the issue and you turned it into something that was never applied. I have no idea why. I was very clear.
You were writing as if I had argued for banning desecrating the flag, when in fact, I had proposed exactly the opposite. Instead of just admitting to this, you call me names. How low can you go?
You were the one name calling….
See… conservative. You think you can stop at flag burning?
Oh Seixon, I thought you were smarter than that! I was saying that if you start by defining what is ‘free speech’ with saying thatflag burning is not – do you think it will stop there? Do you understand that if you say “I don’t think flag burning is free speec”‘, and you get concensus – before long someone else can use that to say that it can’t be protected by the First Amendment, and they make it illegal. Then, they find something else that is similar and does not qualify specifically, by definition, as ’speech’, so they ban that – and before long it take on a domino chain of events. Why I said that tyranny is one foot step over the line…
Here you are (1) implying that I think I can stop flag burning and (2) implying that I want to discard the history of being able to burn the flag.
That’s not what I implied. I really hope you’re not studying to be an attorney…
I meant what I said and said what I meant. Nothing implied. And what I said was thatthe Founding Fathers set up this system for a reason.
Neither position was true, as I demonstrated I had written on my blog. You’ve already admitted you didn’t even read what I wrote, so how in the world do you get off calling me a conservative according to this issue, and how do you know what I want?
Go read what you posted at 11:07… I don’t need a discertation to understand.
You are being nothing but disingenuous here, pretending that you didn’t say what you said. Everyone can read it. What is wrong with you?
Considering more people ask you that question than me, I’m going with the obvious – you can’t stand people to disagree with you, so you take it personally and escalate it into a matter of ad hominem attacks.
Uh, you called me a conservative.. LOL.
Conservative is not a name… It’s an observation. I’ve never heard you express a liberal view point.
You made an ass out of yourself by assuming something about me without even reading my opinion, and now you are lying about it. I guess I shouldn’t have expected more out of you.
I didn’t assume. You posted it here. And rather argue on merits you wanna make ad hominem attacks. Except that around here, people see that you’re making personal insults because you cannot argue on merits. You’ve not offered one fact in this entire rant. Not one.
Here I thought that women were more attentive to details. I guess I was wrong.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 4:27 pm
I’m confused – you just catagorized all women… Make up your mind Seixon – either you are for it or against it…
But I have been attentive to details, it’s why you’re defensive and whining like a child right now instead of using facts to defend your point of view. Now I get why Spudge and Ryan think you’re emotional. You are.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:00 pmok Seixon, unbelievable. This is rediculous. You are arguing about something that both of you fundamentally agree with, which is that flag burning should remain legal. The entire topic here has degenerated into a nasty little flame war between you two. You know what? The first amendment isn’t just free speech. It is freedom of expression. Burning a flag just for the sake of burning it is disrespectful. But burning it to show criticism for our government is a very powerful EXPRESSION of your thoughts about the current state of our nation.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:56 pmBurning a car is a slightly different matter… it would most likely be a somewhat larger fire. Moreover, because the air inside the car is heated and expands, the glass windows shatter, posing a hazard to bystanders. Not to mention the possiblity that the car could explode if it has a full gas tank. Of course with gas prices these days, who’s going to burn a car full of gas? Well that’s why burning cars isn’t likely to be legal.
Who burns cars anyway??? They’re so expensive. That was probably the worst comparison of this entire comment string. Flag burning = Car burning? Like unbelievable said, if ur expressing something by burning a car, it’s your car, you take all the proper precautions, get the right permits, then you can do as you wish. Technically, if you are expressing yourself by burning a car, then it is free speech. But i don’t think you’ll find many cases where someone burned their car. Maybe you can. If so, then you have WAY too much free time, or maybe ur better than me at using google. Well both of u stop fighting, it’s become irrelevent to the topic, because ur both just insulting each other.
Well both of u stop fighting, it’s become irrelevent to the topic, because ur both just insulting each other.
Comment by What’s ur problem? — May 30, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
Okay, you can take my place in this dicussion and see how long it stays civil. I was just coming to tell him, if he’d responded, that unless he wanted to argue facts, I was done arguing sematics… As I said – bigger issues more worthy of debate out there…
May 30th, 2006 at 6:12 pmSeixon, you were talking about your opinion, and i was responding in that context. then suddenly you are bringing case law up (i.e. changing the goal posts in the middle of the game to your advantage).
Ah, so if I choose to base my opinion on case law, then I am immediately disowned. Yeah, I guess in the “reality-based” community it is forbidden to base anything you say on factual information.
No, I didn’t look for one. Because, as I’ve maintained, it’s a moot point.
You didn’t look for one because (a) you know you wouldn’t find one and (b) you know I was right and didn’t want to admit it.
In the grand scheme of things, discussing a movie is pretty much inconsequential. Same as flag burning.
Alright, so then about 95% of everything Think Progress writes about would then be “inconsequential” to you, if that’s your standard. Of course, we both know you don’t believe this to be the case, as you discuss much less important things on here tooth and nail every single day. You’re being disingenuous here.
It’s the old “you are right so therefore the argument is meaningless” trick. This is the type of thing immature people do. They argue about something, but then when one person finds out that their position is untenable, then suddenly the whole argument is meaningless to them.
Because you aren’t imporatnat enough to me to be more than a general memory. You’re habitually defending Bush, fighting with the more intelligent liberals around here, and always whining about petty issues. No sense of humor – overly serious – and really, I’ve tried hard to find something liberal about you, but it hasn’t come up yet.
OK, so without knowing me, admitting that you never read what I say, and that you don’t carry more than a general memory of me, this qualifies you to label me as a conservative on “most issues”? Wow. That’s astounding.
I don’t habitually defend Bush, I habitually debunk lies and myths peddled at Think Progress. As it so happens, most of those have to do with Bush because people at this site are habitually obsessed with the man. I’m whining about petty issues?? LOL. That’s almost the only thing Think Progress does on a daily basis. OMG, Bush didn’t let on that Snow was going to resign – let’s all get all serious and get mad about it! Give me a break.
I do have a sense of humor, but not when people are calling me names for no reason and not when they are going around telling lies. I have a sense of humor when you are trying to be funny, but that happens little around here. The whole “Bush is evil” mood kind of puts a damper on that around here.
You’ve posted enough here to make it pretty clear. Again – people are smarter than you think you are.
In other words, since I disagree with people here on some things, you pidgeon-hole me into where you want to so that you can feel comfortable about your worldview. No, people are not smarter than I think I am. Most of the people here are braindead sheep who will believe anything Think Progress writes without checking up on it, and look away when someone does check up on it.
I have challenged you do demonstrate your claims that I am a conservative, but you are batting .000 so far. Take a swing.
No, I don’t value your opinion because you are very close-minded on the issues I’ve seen you discuss. You get all pissy whenever I’ve tried to have a conversation with you, and you take everything so seriously you’re sure to have a heart attack by 40.
Yeah, I tend to get a bit cranky when about 99% of the people here gangbang me and call me names while telling me I am something I am not. One more time, what issues am I close-minded on? Name one.
No I didn’t. I was arguing the nuances of the issue and you turned it into something that was never applied. I have no idea why. I was very clear.
Oh God. Anyone who can read English can see that you thought I supported Frist on his amendment. So did many others on here – because they didn’t bother to read anything I said.
Oh Seixon, I thought you were smarter than that! I was saying that if you start by defining what is ‘free speech’ with saying thatflag burning is not – do you think it will stop there? Do you understand that if you say “I don’t think flag burning is free speecâ€â€˜, and you get concensus – before long someone else can use that to say that it can’t be protected by the First Amendment, and they make it illegal. Then, they find something else that is similar and does not qualify specifically, by definition, as ’speech’, so they ban that – and before long it take on a domino chain of events. Why I said that tyranny is one foot step over the line…
Alright, so following this logic, then they will soon outlaw skipping on a side walk because it is not free speech. That makes no sense. This is the slippery slope argument, and it is usually completely illogical and dumb.
Congress could choose to making skipping on the sidewalk illegal tomorrow. And? What does that have do to with flag burning? Absolutely nothing. From your logic, I guess, every single thing carried out by humans must be defined as free speech so as to guarantee that Congress doesn’t decide to make it illegal on a whim. I could just as well use this slippery slope argument in reverse and say that soon people like you will say that killing people is “speech” so that it will become legal to do so because it is protected by the First Amendment.
But I won’t, because I’m not dumb.
And what I said was thatthe Founding Fathers set up this system for a reason.
Set up what system? They didn’t outlaw flag burning, nor make it applicable under the 1st Amendment. If you believe they did, then why isn’t car-burning also protected under the 1st Amendment? Again, I could use the reverse slippery slope argument here and then every action involving burning something would be, according to you, protected as free speech. Ridiculous.
Go read what you posted at 11:07… I don’t need a discertation to understand.
The Right says that flagburning is a crime. The Left says that it is free speech. I say that it is neither. Doesn’t that place me as a moderate, and not a conservative? I’m not following your logic here.
Considering more people ask you that question than me, I’m going with the obvious – you can’t stand people to disagree with you, so you take it personally and escalate it into a matter of ad hominem attacks.
No, what I can’t stand is people putting words in my mouth and telling me I am something I am not while ignoring my entire argument. In fact, we actually agree that flagburning is not a crime, but you are too caught up in painting me as a conservative to realize it.
Conservative is not a name… It’s an observation. I’ve never heard you express a liberal view point.
Oh no? I’ve said that the Vietnam war should never have been fought. I have said that the law which put “under God” into the Pledge of Allegiance was unconstitutional. I could come up with lots more examples, but it’s abundantly clear you have already made up your mind by ignoring all contrary evidence.
I didn’t assume. You posted it here. And rather argue on merits you wanna make ad hominem attacks. Except that around here, people see that you’re making personal insults because you cannot argue on merits. You’ve not offered one fact in this entire rant. Not one.
I posted what here? People started commenting that I supported Frist’s amendment after I trackbacked my blog post, before I had even commented. Your comments reflected the same thing. Instead of taking my argument on its merits, you and others started calling me a conservative.
I haven’t offered one fact? Actually, I offered the fact that Norway also bans desecrating flags. What fact have you brought into the debate? The personal insults resulted from you making crass assumptions about me instead of actually reading my opinion or arguments on this issue.
I’m confused – you just catagorized all women… Make up your mind Seixon – either you are for it or against it…
Huh? It’s just one of those things people say, that women are more attentive to detail. In many cases, that is quite true. Guys typically don’t pay attention to what clothes people wore, for instance. Typically women will notice that sort of thing. Of course that doesn’t fly for all girls or guys, it’s a general thing. Now you are asking me to be for or against… what? LOL.
You seem to be one of those girls who isn’t attentive to details, because you couldn’t care less about the nuances of my position on flagburning.
But I have been attentive to details, it’s why you’re defensive and whining like a child right now instead of using facts to defend your point of view. Now I get why Spudge and Ryan think you’re emotional. You are.
Whining? I’ve pointed out several times that you just ignore everything I say, and make blanket statements about me that you are not prepared to substantiate. You haven’t even come to terms with the fact that I don’t share Frist’s opinion on this issue, pretending that I am a conservative. How does that make you attentitive to details?
As far as Ryan and Spudge go, please. If there’s anyone who is emotional here, it is Ryan. He freaks out and throws around names more than anyone here. Spudge isn’t as bad, but he is more like you, just sits back and calls me a conservative no matter what I say. Spudge is lazier than you, but less rabid than Ryan. Ryan is the drama queen at TP, he gets into a tizzy in every single thread. I can’t even count how many times he has called me stupid, moron, fascist, neocon, and a whole variety of lovely things. Not to mention his love affair WITH CAPITAL LETTERS.
I’d love to be civil with you, but when you keep ignoring what I say, and keep pidgeon-holing me without even providing a single example of your allegations against me, I can’t do anything other than try to hold you accountable.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:19 pmYou two really don’t renew my faith in the cooperative spirit of government by democratic rule. If two people who agree on something can get into this large or a debate, then i really wonder what happens when people who disagree about lots of issues try to make decisions. Oh wait… congress happens. Proposed flag burning amendments happen… nothing gets done. I’m off to spend my life in ways other than silly arguements on Think Progress now, so don’t bother responding, just look over all of your previous comments from an objective perspective and see how rediculous you both look.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:30 pmWell, all this happens because instead of just realizing that we agree on something, unbelievable is far too caught up in painting me as a conservative. I demonstrate my moderate credentials by disagreeing with both the Left and Right position on the issue, and then instead of say hey that’s cool, unbelievable goes off on me being a conservative and all this garbage.
I guess it is the peer pressure from others here on Think Progress, everyone is so interested in demonizing me and painting me as “the enemy” because I come here to challenge Think Progress.
In this crowd, it is either all or nothing. Moderates and centrists apparently don’t exist in the world of Think Progress.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:44 pmwow, it’s so comforting to see that the opposite of “pro”gress is in full swing, and not working on issues like THE PRICE OF GASOLINE!!!!!!!!!!
May 30th, 2006 at 7:25 pmWell, all this happens because instead of just realizing that we agree on something, unbelievable is far too caught up in painting me as a conservative.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 6:44 pm
We don’t agree on flag burning NOT being a form of speech. That’s what I’m trying to debate but you keep going back to ‘b-b-but I didn’t say I was against flag burning’.
Besides, ‘if I realize’ – you really like to pass the buck. Why don’t you step up, why does it always have to be someone else who must bow or conceed.
Whatever. Like I said above – either debate issues or go find someone else to play ad hominem attacks with. Trying to have a discussion with you is always about you – rarely the issues. I don’t care enough to discuss you. I didn’t even read your last diatribe pass the first paragraph because it was just more of the same as the others. Not interested…
May 30th, 2006 at 7:50 pmThink Progress now, so don’t bother responding, just look over all of your previous comments from an objective perspective and see how rediculous you both look.
Comment by What’s ur problem? — May 30, 2006 @ 6:30 pm
Only to holier-than-thou types.
Besdies, I thought you were against insults – yet that is the extent of your entire post. The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me… “Do as I say, not as I do”…
May 30th, 2006 at 7:53 pmunbelievable,
Yes, you say that burning a flag is speech, and when I tried to challenge that, you simply said that the entire issue is moot. WTF? You see, if I don’t agree with you on that, I’m a conservative. Apparently. Even if I reject the conservative position on the issue. You said that the discussion always ends up about me – yes, it does when you become preoccupied with calling me a conservative instead of debating me on the issue.
You asked me if I thought it would stop at flag burning. I can turn that around on you and ask you where it will stop in the quest to make things “speech”. As I said, if you want to use the slippery slope argument, you have to be prepared to defend that murder would eventually be seen as “speech” because you are “expressing” something by doing it. That is essentially the position you are taking on burning a flag.
Apparently, according to you, suicide should be legal since you are “expressing” something. Am I right? I said, what about burning a car? A book? A magazine? A house? Where do you draw the line? How far can you go in saying that what is actually a destructive action is “speech”?
I sought out the most tenable and logical position: burning a flag is not “speech”, nor is it a crime. Arguing for either side is ridiculous.
And for seeking out the middle ground, you called me a conservative and told me that the entire issue was moot.
I know you’re not interested in anything I say – you are way too interested in holding up the house of cards that is your worldview which forces you to label everyone that picks at any of those cards as “the enemy”, aka conservatives.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:03 pm[...] Frist, I really think you need to readdress what are the most pressing issues facing our country today. Like you, yourself said, it’s “political posturing” and the “heart and soul of the American people” have more important things to worry about. Like how to pay for gas to get to work. [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 8:22 pmI know you’re not interested in anything I say – you are way too interested in holding up the house of cards that is your worldview which forces you to label everyone that picks at any of those cards as “the enemyâ€, aka conservatives.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 8:03 pm
More absolutes… Seixon, I have rational conversations with other conservatives around here. Even I-RIGHT-I, as long as we avoid religion. It has nothing to do with being conservative. It has to do with discussing the facts, and with not making ad hominem attacks when you can’t come up with a rebuttal. You take all of this personally, and it makes it impossible to disagree with your without it being about you. Personally, I don’t enjoy that…
May 30th, 2006 at 10:03 pmme -OOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWch !!!
May 31st, 2006 at 12:28 am# 118 Seixon:
Thank you for your reasoned opinion and for putting that unbelievable know-it-all in her place.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:07 amWhich place is actually nowhere.Don’t waste your time on her.
.
The only thing Seixon did was make fallacious ad hominem attacks because he couldn’t argue on merit. Well, and whine about me pointing out that he is a conservative. You two should learn something about debate. You’re supposed to discuss the issue and debate facts – not insult the debater. You don’t win debates for knocking the other person. It was why W lost all his debates against Kerry in 2004 – he didn’t use facts. He also lost the election – but that’s a whole other discussion I’m sure neither of you could have without insulting Bill Clinton or John Kerry because you’re too lazy to get the facts and inform yourselves.
And as usual, I see you have no facts, just holier-than-thou attempts at insult. Well, not surprised, since that is the definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results).
May 31st, 2006 at 7:59 amWhat I see as sad in this whole story is that here is a prime case for the people to stand up and say enough is enough with our govererment. From our top leader the president on down we the people are not thought about. Where is our goverement for the people. It has been a real long time since our goverement has had our best instrest as a goal. All you have to do is look at our health care, look at what the average person is really taking home from there job. I want to know how come C.E.O.’s make millions off our hard work. no one person is worth that kind of money. I want to know where my tax money really goes , I pay and pay and yet our schools and everybody else keeps needing more money. I myself work as an estimator for industrial construction company and I see my money going to waste when I bid on jobs for the state and the goverment and I see there cost being pumped up by up to three times what it really cost to do the job with most of it being nothing but profitt to greedy C.E.O.’s and payoff to our goverment leaders who are suppose to have our best instrest on hand. I want to know where are all the jobs that our goverement has made happen that we as normal people can raise a flamily on. What I have seen is jobs at wallmart and places like that being built. Jobs like that will not give my kids the kind of life that it takes just to raise there flamily let alone being able to afford medical cost . That leaves me with my BIG QUESTION WHAT IS MY GOVEREMENT DOING FOR MY BEST INSTREST AND YOURS I THINK IT IS TIME FOR US AS A NATION TO STAND UP AND SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH WE NEED TO PULL IN OUR LEADERS AND MAKE THEM BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THERE BEHAVIOR AND IF THEY CANT DO WHAT IS RIGHT THEN WE AS A PEOPLE NEED TOO GET THEM OUT OF OFFICE UNTILL WE START FINDING THE PEOPLE WE NEED THERE TO DO THERE JOB>
May 31st, 2006 at 11:53 am[...] Mind you, I still think we ought to let conservatives define their own political philosophy. [...]
June 1st, 2006 at 8:12 amWE NEED GOD IN AMERICA AGAIN!!! People open your eyes that what is missing isn’t equality, BUT CHRIST JESUS! He loves us all and gave His life for us. Have we nothing to thank Him with except legalizing and accepting the very sins he died for. This is written only in love…that we may turn our hearts and eyes on the ONE and ONLY person who can save us from our own corruption, JESUS!
June 2nd, 2006 at 4:40 pmHe IS coming to gather His flock and I pray more people come to know Him before that day arrives. We are not guaranteed tomorrow or tonight. Let us live right by the Lord and indulge ourselves in the infallible LIVING word of Jesus Christ – the Holy Bible. Only when we have a personal, daily and intimate relationship with Jesus Christ can we truly differentiate right from wrong.
[...] I’m agnostic on the relative merits of the two bills – my bottom line at this point is getting any substantive bill passed, and both of these past muster. Unfortunately, as I noted last week, the prospects of passing legislation this year are dimming – and meanwhile, Sen. Frist is preparing to use the Senate’s scarce floor time for divisive dross with no chance of passage next week. If there were no other pressing issues on the Senate’s agenda, then fine; but using floor time in this way when sensible chemical security (and port security) legislation is languishing is deeply irresponsible. [...]
June 2nd, 2006 at 6:41 pmyeah liberals just love to bash our military.
June 5th, 2006 at 8:31 amBe suspicious of any politician’s moral superiority.
June 5th, 2006 at 4:04 pm[...] Should we add flag-burning? Some really nasty countries have, why not be like them? After all, Cuba, China, and Iran are models for what we should be. [...]
June 5th, 2006 at 7:53 pm[...] GOP leaders have indicated that they intend to drop their proposed Constitutional Amendments banning “flag burning†and “gay marriage.†Instead, in a desperate attempt to dangle the ultimate “red meat†before their base, they plan to seek the abolition of the 13th Amendment, and actually bring back slavery. [...]
June 7th, 2006 at 2:27 pmDemocracy is under attack, not by outside sources, but, by our own government. Our nation consist of some 300 million people, different races, sexual orientation and the list goes on. In the last six years, women’s rights have come under attack, homosexuals have come under attack, blacks have come under attack. If, this democracy, God bless us. Our Founding Fathers surely did not want such treatment of people to exist. Government has but one goal, to protect the wealthy and forget the rest. Look at our nation today, and tell me that you like the constant abuse of constitutional rights, and tell me, that you like the pure fact, that our government has isolated so many Americans. The Patriot Act made suspects of 300 million citizens, all while our communication has been listened to, and to make matters worst, our bank accounts have been looked into. As a nation, we have become dumber and dumber as each day passes, because we believe everything a habitual lair has stated and when he confesses, we merely put it aside and nothing is done. Maybe the president, was right, when he stated, it would be easier to run this country under a dictatorship form of government. Looking at the results, he might have change our form of government and nobody really cared, so we live in the terrible mess of a scramble democracy.
July 7th, 2006 at 5:31 pm[...] Video-WMP Video-QT Transcript from ThinkProgress: [...]
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:43 amWouldn’t it be nice if we ‘ALL’ turned gay? Oops there goes the human race.
Nic
October 1st, 2006 at 1:44 amBill Frist needs to take it down a notch… We are living in 2006 and when his child comes out of the closet I will be there, pointing my finger, and laughing… hard. Bill Frist I am embarassed to be an American because of you.
November 20th, 2006 at 5:33 pmGiven the Government Action Plan, it has distinguishing features compared with previous ones. It is obvious that the parliamentary election had its features. There were no winners and losers in this Parliament. Since all sides, even independents come in as actors in developing public policy in this Parliament this choice is of historical importance. There are no majorities or minorities. The reflections and intentions people had in mind when casting votes are all present herein. Therefore, people welcomed the Government and there were opportunities to incorporate those items which these two political forces had had in mind for a long time, wanted to implement, and, as they considered, they could implement collectively. In addition, we had opportunities to incorporate actions which had common characteristics provided in the two Government Action Plans. Once such actions provided in the Government Action Plans of the two sides are incorporated in the Government Action Plan we also could say that it is the least politicized Government Action Plan.
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December 5th, 2006 at 7:59 pmHI……YEP
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