Fox Analyst: Global Warming is ‘Bogus…Dreamed Up by The Greens Because They Hate Industry’
Fox Analyst: Global Warming is ‘Bogus…Dreamed Up by The Greens Because They Hate Industry’
This weekend on the show “Cashin’ In,†Fox News analyst Jonathan Hoenig asserted that global warming was “bogus,†and “dreamed up†by environmentalists to stop economic development:
There’s no scientific proof that global warming even exists. To be honest, it’s a bogus consensus dreamed up by Greens because they hate industry. They hate advancement. They hate technology…Greens will lead us back to the stone ages.
It’s Hoenig that’s living in a dream land. Science Magazine analyzed 928 peer-reviewed scientific papers on global warming published between 1993 and 2003. Not a single one challenged the scientific consensus the earth’s temperature is rising due to human activity.
A big part of the solution to global warming, of course, is technology – more efficient cars, renewable energy, cleaner production methods. Don’t bother telling that to Hoenig, however. He’s too busy with his conspiracy theories.
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Fro.mr a man whose last name translates to honey, we are getting a lot of essig(vinegar).
May 29th, 2006 at 8:58 pmOh my Lord….you have to be kidding me. This is why I dont watch TV anymore.
May 29th, 2006 at 8:59 pmFox News hates Our Planet. “nuff said.
May 29th, 2006 at 8:59 pmCorrection:
May 29th, 2006 at 9:00 pmFrom a man whose last name translates to honey, we are getting a lot of essig(vinegar).
The man looks dumber than dirt
May 29th, 2006 at 9:03 pm#5 – s,
May 29th, 2006 at 9:07 pmDoes that make him septic waste?
NEWS FLASH!!! The Bush Administration announced today that the Earth is FLAT!!!
All those travelling by sea should take care not to fall of the edge!
This has been a Public Service Announcement brought to you by Fox & Friends.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:13 pm# 6 :) He’s a Fox anal-ist so I guess you have something there
May 29th, 2006 at 9:15 pmAnybody know is Hoenig came to the FOX studio fresh from the set of a Planet of the Apes shoot?
May 29th, 2006 at 9:15 pmIt is starting to get interesting…KKKarl was going to run on the war on terror…that is not going so good…so they cooked up the immigration debate..and that tore the repugs apart…so now they are going after Al Gore (who beat them once) and Global warming just before the start of the US hurricane season…(China has just experienced the worst May cyclone on record)…and they do not think that the voters will just drink the fox kool aid again? Maybe the 29% of the backwash but if I remember my math right 29% does not win too many elections…and in Duke Cunningham’s old district the repugs are actually talking about …LOSING….imagine that they lose a gerrymandered..”safe” repug district because of their corruption and lies..and they expect we will accept the lies about no global warming?
May 29th, 2006 at 9:17 pmThere was a random telephone poll taken a while back (PIPA) asking people who they depend on for news with questions to test their knowledge of facts concerning the Iraq War.
I won’t try to remember the exact percentages (they’re available at PIPA online), but Fox outdistanced all other networks by a large margin with listeners LEAST likely to have their facts correct. The source whose listeners understood the facts was NPR/PBS,
You know, if I was a Fox News listener who happened to also want the facts as best I know them, I’m sure as a responsible American citizen and patriot, I would look someplace else for my facts.
But, you know what the FOX faithful will be parroting tomorrow around the water cooler? Something along the lines of:
“There’s no scientific proof that global warming even exists. To be honest, it’s a bogus consensus dreamed up by Greens because they hate industry. They hate advancement. They hate technology…Greens will lead us back to the stone ages.”
Sad, but true.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:24 pmAnother quip by Mr Hoenig;
Cavuto guest Hoenig: If Moussaoui is not executed, stock market will suffer
Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:41PM
http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/people/jonathanhoenig
Nice to see what he assesses for his stock picks….
May 29th, 2006 at 9:25 pmIt’s so insane that they’re trying to propagandize this topic. The research is pretty much unanimous! what the hell are they claiming to reference besides the bogus scientists who are funded by oil companies? this is the most transparent bullsh*t ever!
May 29th, 2006 at 9:35 pmWhat a Moron! Greens hate technology? Sure, that’s why we are so insistent on the use of solar and wind generated power. The greens hate advancement? Yeah, that’s why we’re using the Interent – because of a shortage of clay tablets. What an F-ing idiot.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:36 pm[...] Right-wingers must really be scared of Al Gore’s new global warming film, An Inconvient Truth, because FOX News is trotting out waves of people to trash Gore and global warming. This weekend, FOX News analyst Jonathan Hoenig made an appearance on Cashin’ In and said: There’s no scientific proof that global warming even exists. To be honest, it’s a bogus consensus dreamed up by Greens because they hate industry. They hate advancement. They hate technology… Greens will lead us back to the stone ages. (emphasis from Think Progress) [...]
May 29th, 2006 at 9:44 pmThis guy is from capatalist pig.com. Tale out the capapalist, and you have a great picture of Hoenig.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:47 pmHas anyone seen this man’s grandmother? Because it sounds like he’d kill her to make a buck.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:48 pmTo call this guy an analyst is giving him too much credit. If you check his web site you will see his only credentials are that he hates all Dems, progressives and liberals, loves the ruling class (which he wrongly thinks he is part of) and manages about 6 portfolios, probably his family and their pets. He talks out of his butt nearly every time I see him on that Fox program.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:49 pmAnd the 2005 Hurricane season was just left wing propaganda
What would you bet that FOXNEWS.com turns over ip addresses and tracking cookies to the NSA?
May 29th, 2006 at 9:49 pmAnother NEWSFLASH!!!
The Administration has determined that the Sun in fact revolves around the Earth.
Another Public Service Announcement brought to you by Fox & Friends.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:52 pmFOX has got to stop calling itself ‘news’.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:55 pmIts been said that if you are going to say a lie, tell a big lie, and repeat it often. This “swiftboating” of the environment is a result of big energy afraid that any environmental controls will cut into their bottom line. Their proxies, the repubs and FOX are more than willing to parrot the party line.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:58 pmThe Administration has determined that the Sun in fact revolves around the Earth.
Comment by Mash — May 29, 2006 @ 9:52 pm
I wouldn’t at all be surprised… They have pseudo-scientists working hard on validating all the Biblical mythologies… No matter how much they have to lie to do it.
May 29th, 2006 at 9:59 pmWhy does that Hoenig guy look simian?!? Is it just me, or was he in 2001??
May 29th, 2006 at 10:02 pmEven if it were bogus which I dont’ believe wouldn’t you want cleaner healthier air to breathe??
May 29th, 2006 at 10:03 pmThis Jonathan Hoenig is the one who runs capitalistpig.org.
Ha-ha-ha. He’s an ENRON clone. Can’t wait to screw Grandma Milly for HIS chunk of the blood money.
Only one listing at Mediamatters: “Cavuto guest Hoenig: If Moussaoui is not executed, stock market will suffer” Thursday, April 13, 2006
May 29th, 2006 at 10:08 pmNEWSFLASH!!!
No need to worry about Global Warming. Halliburton has invented a new device to counter global warming! Get one while supplies last!
Another Public Service Announcement brought to you by Fox & Friends.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:09 pmI’ve seen that twerp a bunch of times on Fox News’ version of Wall Street Week (strangely enough, Wayne “Trapper John” Rogers is also a featured guest). Hoenig is always talking out of his ass in that way. If I had to guess, I’d say that his arrogance is probably boosted by copious cocaine use. Irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:14 pmHmmm. Let’s see. If global warming was dreamed up by environmentalists because they hate industry, then Toyota must hate industry the most. I have one of their best selling Prius’. I guess I hate indusry, too,.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:14 pmAmazing the intellectual dishonesty of these Fox guys.
But of course reality to them does not exist, it springs out of ideology.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:17 pmI sometimes get the sense that, somewhere in the Fox bunker, there is a subversive element who entertain themselves by finding wingnuts and moonbats who are willing to go on the air and mouth inanities with a sincerity that boggles the imagination…
May 29th, 2006 at 10:18 pmI love the caption under his ugly mug.
“Americas fallen heroes to carry on their fight”
The term “fallen heroes” means people who have died in battle. Are they really saying “we are going to continue our illegal war and use the dead as a reason”?
A$$holes.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:19 pmAnalyst? What did he analyze, the underside of his desk?
May 29th, 2006 at 10:19 pmDoes this guy has an electronic address or maybe the program? We all know he received a nice Dunkin Donuts disccount from his owners for this appereance in TV, but i would like him to read something, and I bet you all do. Please?
May 29th, 2006 at 10:25 pmThank god for global warming, or else we’d be living in the Ice Age!
HH
May 29th, 2006 at 10:26 pmMash, you are on fire today. Heh.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:29 pmWhat about the use of colors to describe enemies of the country: Blacks, for thieves and gang members, brownies-for latin immigrants, reds-for bolsheviks, communists and socialists, yellows-for chinese, japanese and orientals, and now greens-for environmentalists…wow, a high quality discussion and moral standards from company ass lickers.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:35 pmOnly the propagandists on Fox-TV would politicize environmental concerns.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:39 pmHoenig is a business analyst for Fox — Business has always opposed environmental concerns, because it costs them money to clean up their pollution, and to invest in R&D toward the goal of ending pollution.
zookeeper, that SurvivaBall thing is one of the funniest things I have seen in a while. These guys actually demoed that at a real conference pretending to be Halliburton. :)
May 29th, 2006 at 10:40 pmHe is just being contriversial so he can get attention and try to gain fame from that. Hey! Keep posting for him! People need to learn something about basic behavior modification, if you ignore it the behavior goes away. Stop reporting on idiots like this!!
May 29th, 2006 at 10:41 pmKay, how else am I going to get my daily funnies?
May 29th, 2006 at 10:43 pmFox News covers financial matters like they cover regular news.
It’s all made up b.s. designed to elicit an angry response from their bitter and moronic viewers.
I can’t believe serious investors even watch Fox’s financial news, except maybe for laughs.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:44 pmWhat an idiot. Pollution abatement / alternative-renewable energy could be growth industries in the US. If we had a government not in the back pocket of Big Oil we could decentralize our energy choices and create jobs at the same time. Good for national security and good for the domestic economy. All we need is an administration with vision for the future and not devoted to profits for Big Oil to see this happen.
Fox News ought to change their name to the Republican Big Oil news network. No wonder their viewers are so misinformed.
May 29th, 2006 at 10:54 pmDo these FOX news people really think that they can just choose to undo the findings of decades worth of research on climate change by actual scientists? These assholes really must think that the American people really are that damn stupid! Not even the 29% are that retarded!
May 29th, 2006 at 10:55 pmWhat with Iraq, Katrina, widespread Republican corruption and cronyism, skyrocketing gasoline prices with no relief or coherent energy plan in sight, massive deficits as far as the eye can see to fund tax cuts for the super-rich and, maybe most importantly, Osama, Zarqawi and their partners in crime in al Qaeda still running amok plotting against us despite our government desperately conducting rampant illegal warrantless spying and torture – your eyes are probably blurry by now – any Republican who still thinks Bush and the Republicans are doing a “heckuva job†is either lying or deluding him or herself.
Let’s face it, Bush and Republican leadership have “jumped the shark.â€
The only real Big White Elephant question left for Republicans is this: are Bush and his Republican buddies in Congress the worst in American history?
For those who would like some food for thought or still disagree with this premise, please read:
A comprehensive analysis by distinguished historian Sean Wilentz, in which he states that Bush & crew are “headed for colossal historical disgrace. . . . Many historians are now wondering whether Bush, in fact, will be remembered as the very worst president in all of American history . . . . George W. Bush is in serious contention for the title of worst ever. In early 2004, an informal survey of 415 historians conducted by the nonpartisan History News Network found that eighty-one percent considered the Bush administration a “failure.” . . . . Calamitous presidents, faced with enormous difficulties — Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Hoover and now Bush — have divided the nation, governed erratically and left the nation worse off.†http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/9961300
Many conservatives agree.
Conservative Doug “Mac in the Morning†McIntyre in his recent “Apology from a Bush Voter†doesn’t bother to ask the question whether Bush & crew are the worst in history, but just gets right to it and explains at length how they are, in fact, the worst in history: http://www.kabc.com/mcintyre/listingsEntry.asp?ID=432586&PT=McIntyre+in+the+Morning
Joe Scarborough – appropriately disgusted with the Republicans’ massive and desperate illegal warrantless spying program — observes that America rightfully doesn’t trust Bush & crew anymore: http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Scarborough-Country-BigBrother.mov
And for the more cerebral Republicans, even the normally dependable David Brooks threw up his hands and said on PBS recently that it would be good for America if the Democrats in midterm elections won one or both Houses of Congress. Brooks also writes, “For God’s sake, Republicans, show a little moral revulsion. Back in the dim recesses of my mind, I remember a party that thought of itself as a reform, or even a revolutionary, movement. That party used to be known as the Republican Party. I wonder if it still exists.” http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F20810F63A540C768CDDA80894DE404482
In addition to Mac in the Morning, Joe Scarborough and David Brooks, here are some more conservatives or ex-conservatives (those got so fed up with conservative shenanigans that they quit the party) that also know the Republicans have failed badly: Brent Scrowcroft, Jim Jeffords, David Brock, Bruce Bartlett, Tom Clancy, George Will, Andrew Sullivan, Arianna Huffington, Paul O’Neill, Tom Friedman, Richard Clarke, Rand Beers, Paul Pillar, Colin Powell, Larry Wilkerson, John DiIulio, Tony Snow (and somehow that was before he joined the White House), Arlen Specter, Alfonse D’Amato (calls Republicans “the gang that can’t shoot straight), Newt Gingrich (suggests that Democrats campaign by simply asking, “Had enough?â€), an unprecedented number of ex-Generals, and even Michael Brown (blaming White House for Katrina) and Jack Abramoff (turned State’s evidence).
So please, let us know if you think Bush and his Republicans buddies in Congress are the very worst in history, or just really really bad. (Or feel free to let us know if you are still dreaming the dream that Republicans are doing a heckuva job).
May 29th, 2006 at 11:00 pmSometimes, Fox News doesn’t get it right.
Two pictures of a glacier in the Alps that has melted during a 125 year period.
Global warming can’t be denied.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:04 pmFOX NEWS – When you absolutely positively have to change the publics mind for the benefit of big business, promote the Republicans, and protect the Bush administration overnight.
At what point is FOX NEWS held responsible for it’s dangerous and destructive lies and distortions?
May 29th, 2006 at 11:10 pmMeanwhile, the movie about global warming is #11 at the boxoffice despite being shown in only 4 theaters:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/05/inconvenient_boxoffice.php
May 29th, 2006 at 11:14 pmWhy doesn’t the FCC fine FOX millions of dollars for polluting the air with lies? Surely, there must be a responsibility for a show listed as News to express truth on air. The FCC fined Janet 1/2 a mill for just one boob.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:20 pmDo you think this man gives a damn about global warming?
Why should he care about global warming when he can amass a fortune large enough to ensure that his bloodline will survive the effects of the changes in the environment?
May 29th, 2006 at 11:25 pmOk, I get that he has to carry on about the ‘imaginary crisis’, and the obligatory bad-mouthing of everyone who disagrees with his side’s opinions, but REALLY!!! We “hate” advancement and technology? Umm.. NO! That would be wrong. But par for the course with them. Anything that they believe is pasted on us, and ridiculed and marginalized, and is to be stopped at all costs. Where is Exxon-Mobile on research on renewable energy? Bio-Diesel? Solar Power? Wind Energy? I must say, I haven’t seen much of anything from them about it. Did i miss it, somehow? I do want to be fair to them. If they have something, i would be happy to read about it. Since they MUST be FOR advancement and technology, since we “hate” it, you know. And that guy’s face… like a dog, growling at you. Nice.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:26 pmI guess the talking point du jour for the Faux not news channel is
Greens and Hate. Funny that the Neo-Cons, and the Likud FauX Nutwork, want to take society back to the days of Wilson, yet wouldn’t that destroy the economy? But the War has put America, perhaps Trillions into Debt? Thats Good for the Economy?
Oy Yeh Right. Sorry. Forgot. They just say that to get the Fundies nose rings in place.
What’s wrong with my above statement?.That Debt is good?
May 29th, 2006 at 11:30 pmDebt is great for Investors and Bankers, they will bundle up all those mortgages, paper into bonds or equities, then resell them. SO Wars and Debt are Good and so are Pollution?
Why then if this is so, Lets not have smog pumps on our cars?
Or those Expensive Inspections?
Why we can heat the world even faster. But thats not good for Business is it?
Notice the other caption:
PRES CLINTON; GLOBAL
WARMING WORSE THAN TERROR
Here is the context:
“Climate change is more remote than terror but a more profound threat to the future of the children and the grandchildren and the great-grandchildren I hope all of you have.”
Clinton explained: “It’s the only thing we face today that has the power to remove the preconditions of civilized society.”
May 29th, 2006 at 11:38 pmI sometimes get the sense that, somewhere in the Fox bunker, there is a subversive element who entertain themselves by finding wingnuts and moonbats who are willing to go on the air and mouth inanities with a sincerity that boggles the imagination…
It’s obviously part of the initiation rites to get into the fox fraternity.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:43 pmRon, I cant see any Alpine glaciers. Did you post the wrong link?
May 29th, 2006 at 11:47 pmWritten By: Jonathan Hoenig
Published In: Heartlander
Publication Date: February 23, 2004
Publisher: Chicago Sun-Times
Heartland in Print
Chicago Sun-Times
February 23, 2004
Just a few years back, the stock market was soaring, jobs (with signing bonuses) were plentiful, and free market capitalism was riding a wave of popularity that hadn’t been seen since the Jazz Age.
With innovation and 401(k) plans booming, sustained prosperity for all Americans seemed just within our reach.
Yet when the bubble burst and crooked CEOs replaced hot IPOs in the business section, a palpable shift occurred.
Face it: Capitalism gets a bad rap these days. Executives are seen as greedy shysters who do anything to make a buck. Companies are perceived as amoral exploiters of the poor, and polluters of the environment.
_________
So Old Hoenig wants it both ways, Here he is saying that Crooked CEOs damaged the Economy, So Mr Hoenig is a great Big Liar, or He’s Telling the Truth. I will say that he’s not lying about the corrupt CEOS. Enron is what hurts the Economy. Oil Prices Hurt the Economy. Greed hurts the Economy, Corrupt Senators hurt the Economy.
Shut Hoenig, you have no credibility, thanks to your very own words.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:47 pmThink Tank Liars.
Check out his site: http://www.capitalistpig.com/
As far as I can tell, he’ll tell you how to trade using technical analysis for $200 an hour.
That sounds like a lot, but if he was such hot shit his time would be worth more trading!
He’s also an Objectivist. Enough said.
May 29th, 2006 at 11:56 pmWhy would anyone accept the scientific pronouncements of someone whose highest claim is as a floor trader? Do you get your surgical advice from him, too? “That left arm will betray you – cut it off.”
May 30th, 2006 at 12:02 amAre you sure that Hoenig isn’t German for Phoney? There are lot’s of experts and journalists around these days who are, you know. For instance, I read an article Saturday by Michele Malkin about a “phony” soldier story. [Don't ask me why I read this spoiled brat's rantings --- she who never made a sacrifice for this country in her life.] Afterwards I thought: Pot? Kettle? Yes, indeed both black.
Look….If there is not a worldwide average temperature increase, what is happening to the glaciers such that Glacier Bay National Park in Alaska is now a park, whereas 100 years ago, it was an unihabitable glacier. You can discuss man-made versus natural cycle causes, but you cannot argue that the globe is not in a warming trend.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:15 amHoenig is another in a long line of corporate apologists that fight tooth and nail to protect the injustices leveled against the good citizens of this country by corporations. It is business that could care less if they destroy the planet in the name of profit. I heard this same jerk tell O’Reilly that gas was a “bargain” at 3.00/gal, and would be a bargain at $3.20/gal. Tell that to someone even making $30,000/yr, let alone minimum wage. These people think everyone is as uninformed as the conservative republican lock-step loyalists, who challenge nothing, and do not have the ability to make up their own mind, but would rather have it made up by blowhards like this guy…and Limbaugh, Hannity, Drudge, Matthews, Snow, Savage…need I keep going?
May 30th, 2006 at 12:26 amJonathan Hoenig is an Ayn Rand capitalist. He has no opinion that goes against her orthadox dogma.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:30 amJonathan Hoenig is an Ayn Rand disciple. He has no opinion that goes against her orthadox dogma.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:30 amJonathan Hoenig is an Ayn Rand disciple. He has no opinion that goes against her orthadox dogma.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:30 amWhat exactly is this Hoenig an expert on anyway. Besides lieing I mean. Every government on earth knows the climate is changing even if the try to deny that it’s a result of human activity.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:54 amFox & friends = sociopath support group.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:54 amMmmm… What credentials did this Hoenig guy present to verify himself as an expert on climatology? None? Really? Then why was he on a major (if bogus) news channel expounding with certainty on the topic? I disagree with Geoff. MORE than 29% are THAT STUPID. There are a lot of sheep now following the herd away from Bush and company just because the word is out that Bush is an idiot and a LOSER, and no one wants to be associated with a loser. These a–holes haven’t smartened up, and they won’t. They WILL be fooled again.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:06 amStop shooting at the messenger… Bring the facts that the Earth is warming..Then, tell us how much and how fast.. You are all in for a surprise!!!
May 30th, 2006 at 1:13 amWhen reality is too upsetting, turn to Fox “News!”
May 30th, 2006 at 1:27 amJeff Muller
May 30th, 2006 at 1:35 amI don’t know why you have to post it three times but Hoenig is definitely an Ayn Rand freak and proud of it. His slavish worship of the gang of sociopaths presently running the show is a direct reflection of Ms. Rand’s slavish worship of what she actually described at a speech in Boston as “America’s most persecuted minority: Big Business.” Stop paying attention to this bogus “analyst” and leave Fruitcakeville to the fruitcakes.
Oh, puh-leeeeeeeeeeeze! If there’s any group of people in this country who’ll end up taking us back to the Stone Age — or at least back to the pre-Industrial Age — it’s people like Hoenig who to all appearances believe that natural resources like petroleum, clean air, clean water, and arable land are in infinite supply and that we can do whatever we like to the environment with no thought whatsoever for the consequences. Cause and effect is a fundamental and inescapable principle of life on this planet — all actions have consequences, and these are not always immediately apparent to the eye.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:48 amI’m not from the US, so pardon me for wondering, how in the world can this even get on the air labelled as NEWS? Why doesn’t someone attack them for reporting lies, and using their “We can report anything as long as we put a question mark behind it. Watch us: Does Gore BLEEP sheep?” tactic.
I’d run them over with attack ads and use it as selling point.
This is something the republicans and Fox News _really_ don’t want you to see.
An Inconvenient Truth. Now in theatres.
–
They deny Global Warming exists. Why do they hate our children?
Oh, whatever..
May 30th, 2006 at 1:55 amClearly Hoenig is not a scuba diver or a even man who pays attention to the weather. Coral reefs everywhere are experiencing die off. There’s nothing more tragic than diving on a reef ten years earlier was ripe with color ato find it now a plain of dead, white stone. That’s real, Hoenig. Superstorms and hail the size of softballs is also real, Hoenig. Reality is this universe. Do you live in it? Then open your eyes.
The core lunacy of Hoenig’s unscientific assessment is that those in favor of doing something to halt global warming are anti-business. What we are is anti-business-as-usual. The United States has, over the last decades, relinquished its manufacturing capabilities and ingenuity to foreign nations, and even iwhen we do participate in some industry, in far too many that build the things Americans invented, the main body of profit heads offshore. In place of that lost industrial might and attendant wealth is an economy built around services and the shuffling of money, which the majority of Americans can only participate in as worker bees. We have built mega-industries that are mega-cowards, too fearful of genuine risk and shareholder wrath to bet on a future.
To attack global warming we demand new technologies. We demand that the United States take the lead in creating the technologies that will truly drive the global economy over this century. As an American, I would like to see the U.S. own that technology so that the body of enormous profit to be had stays at home. Instead, dunderheads like Hoenig would have us do nothing, a forfeit at the beginning of the race that will hand off all those future royalties, licenses and profits to foreign industries that have already caught on to the coming wave. By any other name, what Hoenig proposes is treason, because what he demands is an abdication of inevitable energy and technology ownership to foreign nations.
Bottom line is that clean and renewable energy is a fantastic goal even if there were no global warming issues. We secure our nation by not having to deal with oil producing dictatorships, which in turn gives us far wider leeway to effect diplomatic agreements and resolutions in that we will operate entirely from a stance of integrity instead of corporate investment. The cost of treating illness caused by pollution, currently billions per year, massivle diminish. Who wins? Insurance companies win. American based manufacturers win as they lciense their technologies to others. We win because we do not have to support creatinous governments merely because they satiate our greed for oil.
Most importantly, the planet wins.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:08 amBut Mr. Hoenig must be right, after all we are not following scientific theory any more. It got voted out in favor of Intelligent Design.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:29 ami’m not exactly sure of the support the GREENS have in america, but attacks of this sort are a sign of panic by the empire. keep up the good work GREENS, because the GREENS are the future.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:43 am[...] Think Progress has the details on this amazing sleight of mouth effort. Fox would be laughable if so many folks didn’t believe every word they spew. Fox Analyst: Global Warming is ‘Bogus…Dreamed Up by The Greens Because They Hate Industry’ [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 3:49 amJonathan Hoenig is an Ayn Rand capitalist. He has no opinion that goes against her orthadox dogma.
fo grins;
AYN RAND
AY R AND
AY R AN
Ayran
Ayran. (Turkish Buttermilk)
Fly in the Buttermilk
May 30th, 2006 at 4:18 amShew fly shew
fly in the buttermilk
shew fly shew
While Fox news is undoubtedly anything but fair and balanced and has a conservative slant (look at News Corp UK publications) I can’t help but think that they put kooks like this on the air just for the sensationalism. Ann Coulter and this guy say outrageous things that get people up in arms and which generates postings like this one which becomes ‘news’ itself etc. Ignore them, don’t watch Fox, they will go away if the ratings fall. The key word in News Corps name is corporation not news; they are there to make money and its all based on ratings.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:29 amIt’s right wingers who will propel us back to the Stone Age. Interesting that Hoenig said “agesâ€. Maybe he was conflating “Stone Age†and “Dark Agesâ€. We’re headed for some dark stone ages with the right-wing crazies in charge.
Carolyn Kay
May 30th, 2006 at 4:46 amMakeThemAccountable.com
the problem isn’t FOX News: it’s the minds of people who watch and believe it.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:53 amHoening and Coulter have to make a living and since they have NO OTHER SKILLS, they have fallen into lying for money. You know, like lawyers.
How can throw-backs like Hoening still exist?
May 30th, 2006 at 5:10 amRemember. Every single thing you see on Fox News is nothing more than 300 pounds of shit in a 30 pound bag.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:44 amI have no specific comment about Jonathan Hoenig or Fox News, but if you are interested in getting down to real facts (as opposed to “media facts”) about Global Warming, start with articles like this…
Climate of Fear
Global-warming alarmists intimidate dissenting scientists into silence
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220
And then go read papers from Richard Lindzen, Professor of Atmospheric Science at MIT
May 30th, 2006 at 5:56 amhttp://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen.htm
Is this man part of the Billion doallar media payroll for the Bush administration? Sure seems it when he confuses Greens with the majority of world scientists. Hmmmm.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:00 amThe whole man-made global warming is as he says made -up……I have asked this for years and so far not a single expert has answered the question:
Please tell me experts in the last 30 years show me quantatively with actual measures (not hocus pocus computer models-I can make a model show anything I want) how much of temperture change in NATURAL and how much is from MAN. So far NOT A SINGLE expert has or can show this and why?….because they do not know or understand how or why the earth NATURALLY cycles from hot to cold. Trying to piggy back MAN MADE on top of an unknown equals the junk science you goofs believe as religion..
May 30th, 2006 at 6:20 amWhat a douche.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:42 amEven scientist that take issue with global warming being man-made will not deny global warming exists, as we watch the tip of the melting iceberg turn into a sight worthy of Bush economics – - trickle down.
The only debate that an unprejudiced scientists should be exploring is, if anything, what can mankind do to stop it.
Any other position reflects intensely on the relentless need for Republicans to keep the cash flowing in from those recipients of the big-tax-break.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:50 amMan, that Hoenig has a set of ears on him, no? I bet he gets some air on a March morning on Michigan Ave.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:02 amIt’s bogus to say that Greens hate technology and hate advancement. In order to replace fossil fuels as our main source of energy will reguire either advancing our current technology, solar, wind, bio-diesel or developing new technology. It is Jonathan Hoening that is against industry and is stuck in the dark ages.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:04 am[...] I suppose the folks at Fox News will make the argument that because Alaska is already half-way ruined, we may as well drill the whole state up. [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 7:06 amHold me mommy! I’m really afraid!!!
May 30th, 2006 at 7:22 am[...] There’s no scientific proof that global warming even exists. To be honest, it’s a bogus consensus dreamed up by Greens because they hate industry. They hate advancement. They hate technology…Greens will lead us back to the stone ages. Vir [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 7:24 amJust who is this ass? What is his background? How does he KNOW the things he spouts so confidently? Why is a network that calls itself news allowed to broadcast something that is clearly propaganda, and yet still call itself news? This is just disgraceful frickin bullshit, and Im so tired of it. Someone needs to just reach out and bitch slap idiots like this, …
Comment by Geoff — May 30, 2006 @ 12:30 am
You are correct Geoff CBS should be shut down and Dan Rather, Michael Moore and the leader of the Demoncraps Howard Dean imprisonned.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:34 amAnd fox gives him the air time.
R2K
May 30th, 2006 at 7:46 amThe troll spews: “You are correct Geoff CBS should be shut down and Dan Rather, Michael Moore and the leader of the Demoncraps Howard Dean imprisonned.”
Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) “I have my own beliefs about how that happened: it originated with Karl Rove, in my belief, in the White House. They set that up with those false papers. Why did they do it? They knew that Bush was a draft dodger.”
May 30th, 2006 at 7:55 amFox Newsfotainment should be on the Sci-Fi channel.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:01 amMethinks thou dost protest too much. For sound, logical analysis of the global warming crisis that lawyers, environmentalists, government and even corporations have manufactured, please read “State of Fear” by Michael Crichton. Remember, trust only the facts, and to do that you need all the facts, not just the propagandized or distorted ones. This column proves that hysteria fuels extremism on both sides.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:06 amIt appears that the members of the republican and their talking heads are suffering from delusional thinking,, is that a membership requirement?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:21 am[...] There’s a debate over the Puddle about global warming, in my opinion largely thanks to big oil corporations. There are people who try to deflect the criticism by asserting that “they hate the industry”. Well, I think nothing can be farther from the truth. The industry has brought us many good things (well, some might prove fatal), and now, the technology has advanced to the point where industry can be clean and relatively safe for most. However this means they need to invest more in “defences” and development, which means less money for rich old farts. It’s all about the money, really. [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 8:23 am#99 Donn-
You have to be joking. Please tel us why we should trust a writer of science fiction (whose principal goal is to…wait for it…sell lots and lots of books!) over scientists in the climate community?!?!?
The scientists over at RealClimate.org have countered most of the false assertions/pretensions in Crighton’s book. Check it out.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:30 amI’m with #14 on this one. The idea that those who accept climate change are anti-technology is just plain idiotic. It’s pretty clear that there are HUGE new business opportunities waiting for alternate clean fuel and energy sources using cutting-edge science and technology. The market is wide open and there are BILLIONS to be made by those with the imagination and foresight to sieze the moment.
Hoenig is just a shill for entrenched fossil fuel interests. If anyone is anti-technology it’s this guy, since the people he represents are doing nothing technologically unique.
Heck of a job you’re doing there, Oily!
May 30th, 2006 at 8:37 amOk the Facts:
On one side we have people like RICHARD LINDZEN the author of that WSJ article posted above. In fact Lindzen got payed by “oil and coal interests $2,500 a day for his consulting services; [and] his 1991 trip to testify before a Senate committee was paid for by Western Fuels AND a speech he wrote, entitled ‘Global Warming: the Origin and Nature of Alleged Scientific Consensus,’ was underwritten by OPEC.”
Sound familar? Corporate Conservative Rebpulicians steeped in a culture of corruption.
On the other side we have 928 peer reviewed articles simply stating that humans are warming the planet, over and above it’s natural cycles. Kool-Aid drinkeers should understand that “Peer review” is process which validates science research by removing any personal bias and identifies any flaws that may be present in the research.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:38 amNewsFlash Fox announces Galileo wrong! Theory of Gravity a hoax to keep peoples feet on the ground! News at 11!! We’re serious!!!
May 30th, 2006 at 8:44 amThis is a kid who once held up a copy of Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead to help win an argument. Who gives a shit what this half-witted little prick has to say?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:49 amDoesn’t the guy in the picture looks as if has a bad case of constipation?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:57 amOh what lies they will tell and evils they embrace, for profit.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:07 ambeauty fades but stupid is forever. this man is just that – unattractive and stupid.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:32 amThere’s also no scientific evidence that God exists, so I guess this guy is equally skeptical of Christianity.
And it’s usually conservatives who are constantly griping about modernity, not environmentalists.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:38 amThis guy runs a hedge fund. His web site is http://www.capitalistpig.com. At least he has the pig part correct. Not a capitalist, however, given that he fails to see the economic opportunity in transitioning out of a fossil fuel based economy.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:38 amcreepy – he’s working on that cheneyesque jaw grinding – i see a bright future for him in the Republican Party :)
May 30th, 2006 at 9:49 amapparently, the man hasn’t got the intellect of an amoeba – nor the honesty.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:06 amConsidering the face on this guy, you’d think he’d be happy to get back to the stone age – where he came from.
Seriously, Greens are like at what? 0.1 percent support in America?
Give it up. That should be labeled a crime against humanity. When the day of reckoning comes, all these scums and liars need to be strung up and confronted head on with their lies – right next to their corporate chieftains pulling the strings.
The issue is that Corporate World is losing the old centralized nature of business where they hold control of the main spigots. Decentralization is taking hold and changing everything and they are scared. It started with information, music distribution, video and is expanding to other fields such as energy. When everyone generates their own energy from free renewable sources, they will control nothing.
That is what they are truly worried about. All these attempts are meant to keep everything as it is, which is impossible.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:10 am111,
If you’ve seen the Corpse Bride, you remember the part where the bride’s (the live one) father has to fake a smile when meeting the groom’s parents and it takes all his effort to turn his natural scowl into a sideways, crooked, half smile. When I saw that and all those bottom teeth showing, I thought CHENEY!!!
May 30th, 2006 at 10:13 amAnybody in the Chicago “investment community” will tell you that Jonathon Hoenig is an obnoxious self-promoting moronic little twit. He calls himself the “Capitalist Pig” and wrote a simplistic pop investment book called “Greed is Good”. Nobody, I mean absolutely nobody in the business actually takes him seriously. He is one of those fanatical Friedmanites, who does not have the intellectual capacity to actually understand Friedman’s free-market ideology. Instead he just spouts right wing economic and political platitudes in the guise of commentary. Unfortunately, he seems to be successful at getting his Alfred E. Neumanesque mug on TV.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:17 amThe problem is that, for people who are solely Fox watchers, this is truth and there is no other. Just another good reason to not watch television.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:21 am#14. we would probably harm the environment more with clay tablets than the internet, on a per character basis. between the excavation of the clay, the wood we burn to bake them in ovens, the massive storage facilities we need. how much space would we need for the federal register alone?
May 30th, 2006 at 10:28 amThis would be the same Mr. Hoenig, who helps run a hedge fund, who on the May 20 edition of this same show said “A good offensive is a good offensive. We don’t have to figure out who our enemies are. Iran is at the top of the list. If the government wants to do something to help protect the market and Americans, get out the maps, stop listening to how many time I call my mother or grandmother and let’s bomb Iran’s capabilities to make nuclear arms.” Mr. Hoenig repeated his call for an air bombing campaign against Iran several more times before the show concluded.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:28 amMy concern is not that Mr. Hoenig lowers the level of discourse on the Fox Channel, as if that were possible.
My concern is with the investors who have placed their money in the care of Mr. Hoenig.
I’ve looked in vain for any documentation as to Mr. Hoenig’s fund’s performance. I do note that his fund partnership, on their web site, says they practice Randian Objectivism as a philosophy, and that Mr. Hoenig writes fondly of market following as an investment strategy.
Good for them. But what’s their performance versus the S&P 500? No word on their web site about that.
If his judgement with respect to foreign affairs is so poor, one trembles for the future of those foolish enough to entrust their funds to him.
Fingers in your ears everone …. ‘La,La,La,La,La,La,La,La’
‘There is no such thing as Global Warming, there is no such thing as Global Warming, there is no such thing …..’
Are we in Kansas yet?
http://www.politicallyoutspoken.com
May 30th, 2006 at 10:37 amEven if global warming is happening AND it is caused by human activity (which IMO is why global warming is bogus and more like a religion). The result is predetermined: humans are causing it, and if you think otherwise, you hate the environment.
Nevermind that Venus and Mars also appear to be warming these last years, and that the sun has been radiating a little more these last years.
Oh and even if it was true, you’re asking the government for help. You’ll only get unintended consequences, probably worse, more annoying or more oppressing results. You’re being played.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:47 amWelcome to the New Dark Ages: Global Warming is a hoax. Evolution is a sham. War is good, abortion bad. Gays are sinners. God is White. Debt is an illusion. Dubya’s a great leader. Death is progress. Greed is divine. Abstinence good, condoms bad. Pat Robertson sane, the rest of us – not! Freedom good, fear even better. Big Brother good while Big Business has only our best interests at heart.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:03 amPlease tell me experts in the last 30 years show me quantatively with actual measures (not hocus pocus computer models-I can make a model show anything I want) how much of temperture change in NATURAL and how much is from MAN.
You ignore the links I posted yesterday. This page shows both model and non-model-based studies that detected manmade warming:
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=3458&method=full
These studies detect the “signature” of manmade warming. Many make quantitative observations, which of course have margins of error. This margin partially accounts for the IPCC’s range of estimates on the amount of risk we’ll be exposed to over the next 100 years.
There are a number of different studies. So if it’s so important that you know about them, read them. Then come back to us. Many of these studies are summarized in newspaper articles, which link to the studies themselves.
Hopefully, you’ll come to an appreciation of the risks that scientists are pointing out. We buy fire insurance even though we don’t know if our house is going to catch fire. But we do know that man made climate change is occuring, so what’s up with the people who want to do nothing?
Somehow, I suspect there are some people who are never going to be convinced, no matter how much empirical evidence they get. The Discovery Institute points to all the unknowns and uncertainties in the theory of evolution as evidence that it never happened. “Never argue with a man whose job depends on not being convinced.†— H.L. Mencken
May 30th, 2006 at 11:04 amkth..
I’m wirh ( kth ) on his very good point. It seems there was something said once about how cocain boosts the ego and numbs the thought process.
Just asking..
.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:07 amYeah, the Greens really f’ed up Germany ya know.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:12 amGive me $10 and 10 minutes, and I will find you an “analyst” to tell you that Global Warming is a myth. This guy would probably do it for free, assuming you allow him to plug his company’s website, on which you WON’T find any information regarding the performance of his asset management services, but you WILL find numerous T-Shirts for sale. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! I’m not kidding!!! Asset management, and T-Shirts!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I’m seriously laughing out loud right now.
Mr. Hoenig, you, much like your company, are a joke. Please do mankind a favor and stick to T-shirt sales. Please, I beg you, leave the science to pretty much ANYONE else. I’ll settle for anyone who has taken a 100 level science class – an elite field in which I suspect you have not earned membership.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:15 amI think he just had a menstrual cramp…
May 30th, 2006 at 11:18 amOil companies and polluters hate technology.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:18 amTechnology will end dependence on oil.
I’m really tired of these people who get paid to lie to me.
I’m really sick and tired.
I’d like to meet that f*cker in a dark alley.
This TV commentator is just another corporate shill using smoke and mirrors to obscure the important issues. Of course I disagree that global warming is a made-up issue. Of course I recognize the scientific consensus among reputable, disinterested sources that supports the findings that warming is taking place.
That said, however, I do not believe global warming is even close to being the most important environmental issue of our time. Corporatists and their media machine have suceeded in misdirecting the debate on environmental issues much as they have suceeded in misdirecting the debate over political issues as a whole.
I have spent 17 years as a senior enforcement attorney at HQ in the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
I have learned that there are issues most newspapers and other media, including the blogosphere, do not cover that are more important in terms of the government’s ability to address environmental problems than the usual litany I see repeated here.
Global warming, Arctic Drilling, endangered animals, gasoline mileage, etc. are all significant environmental issues to many people. But they are largely symbolic in my view.
They are not the most important issues because they do not have immediate, deadly impact on public health.
I am trying to tell folks here that there are issues which do present an imminent hazard to public health that are being systematically mishandled by this Administration, the Congress, and the public, generally. These issues were mishandled by the previous Administration as well and are being mishandled or ignored by the so-called “environmental” movement, too.
Let me list as examples the two most obvious overarching concerns: air pollution, specifically particulates, and water pollution, specifically our crumbling sewage treatment infrastructure.
Power plants and vehicles putting particulates into the air while government relaxes regulation and allows more and more increases in this kind of pollution can and does have immediate deadly effects on public health — look at the nationwide epidemic of asthma. It isn’t always the pollution you see, or the issue on which upper-middle class people donate money, that will kill the most people.
Next, we can build water plants in Iraq, but we are cutting Federal dollars with which to fund municipal and local government modernization and capacity upgrades to our ancient, crumbling sewage treatment system. Sewage overflows are rampant – talk to organizations of local governments and see this confirmed. Look at what the recent flooding in New England as well as the flooding after Katrina did to those areas’ ability to control pollution and the risk of bacteria due to sewage overflows.
Oh, I know, sewage and particulates aren’t fashionable — not cute like a panda, not frightening like a doomsday global warming scenario. The fact that we need our issues to have sex appeal only deepens my contempt for the minds that insist on ignoring what needs to be fixed first.
A society that cannot provide itself with basic sanitation is doomed to suffer serious declines in public health. Those little pieces of paper you soon will see floating in our streams and rivers are not messages of joy, my friends.
Behind this misdirection of attention is simple economics. Corporate America is not interested in protecting public health because it is not interested at all in any aspect of the concept “public” nor particularly committed to the idea of “health.” People are units of production, and as such, are fungible, replaceable and dealt with on a cost benefit basis.
Watch how OMB is now managing the concept of health risk from environmental causes to see this play out for real.
Environmental groups have gone seriously off course because they do not get their money donated from the mid to lower income people most affected and most immediately at risk through exposure to toxic chemicals and air and water pollution. Pandas and global warming sells memberships and are easy to get your head around. You can get idealistic young college kids to go door to door raising money to “stop global warming” but not to enforce Clean Air Act new source performance standards. These other issues are tough to market, hard to raise money on, and the major environmental groups have become too self-interested, gentrified and establishment to address them.
Perhaps the most serious issue of all in the environment these days is the pollution of the concept of science itself — the degradation this Administration has brought to EPA and the power it has given to the most powerful polluters to control scientific judgments that drive legal requirements and actions on the ground that directly affect our health and welfare.
This issue can be illustrated by referring to how just two of the most widespread and best known toxic chemicals are being handled under environmental law: Trichloroethylene or TCE and perchlorate.
Usually newspapers and other corporatist media say issues over which a government agency has power to make decisions is just inside the beltway turf fighting and not worth covering — which ignores the fact that the fight over the environment is between who decides how best to protect the public, an independent regulatory agency mandated to do so and enforce the law by Congress and statutory law, or a member of the regulated community and a huge polluter — the Defense Deparment.
Ralph Vartabedian, of the Los Angeles Times, on March 30, 2006, reported in a most unusual but truly public spirited way the nature of this issue, and I will quote a synopsis of the piece I found on the Greenwire:
“Sparked by a 2001 report from U.S. EPA finding that trichloroethylene was 40 times more carcinogenic than previously believed, a legal battle between EPA and the Defense Department ended with the Pentagon taking control of and burying TCE cleanup efforts, according to a Los Angeles Times report.
“TCE was once widely used in consumer products, such as correction fluid for typewriters and spot cleaners. Now, TCE is the most widespread water contaminant in the United States, with large areas of California, Florida, New York and Texas sitting on plumes of it. California classifies it as a known carcinogen and issued a risk assessment in 1999 that came to the same conclusions as the 2001 EPA report. The United States still uses about 100 tons of TCE annually, although military use is down to about 11 gallons per year. An Air Force report in 2003 said the Pentagon alone had 1,400 TCE-contaminated sites.
“It is a World Trade Center in slow motion,” said Boston University epidemiologist David Ozonoff. “You would never notice it.”
“Experts have said EPA’s risk assessment means thousands of U.S. birth defects and cancers per year could be attributable to TCE exposure. But since the Defense Department had at least 1,000 military properties contaminated with the toxic solvent, the Pentagon launched a successful challenge to costly cleanup plans that could have included the EPA’s toughening its TCE standard for drinking water, currently at five parts per billion.
“The Pentagon, aided by NASA and the Energy Department, appealed to the White House in 2001, arguing that the EPA report was badly flawed. Bush administration appointees in EPA sided with the Pentagon and withdrew the risk assessment in favor of a study by the National Academy of Sciences, which is due out this summer.
“California is the worst-contaminated state, with 67 Superfund sites polluted by TCE. The San Gabriel Valley, about 18 percent of which is contaminated, has cost $120 million to clean up over the past 20 years and has decades more work ahead, EPA Superfund officials said. The San Fernando Valley has cost $150 million so far to clean up water supplies for 800,000 residents (Ralph Vartabedian, Los Angeles Times, March 30).
“The general public has no idea this is happening,” said Erik Olson, a lawyer with the Natural Resources Defense Council. “The Defense Department has succeeded in undermining the basic scientific process at EPA. The DoD is the biggest polluter in the United States and they have made major investments to undercut the EPA.” — end quote
It is this sort of issue, my friends, that defines the environmental law of today.
In short, the fox is in charge of the henhouse.
Until we change that and restore independence and authority to a disinterested government agency over scientific judgments concerning the risks posed by substances to our health, I’m afraid we are lost, no matter how many pandas we save, how many times we prevent drilling in the Arctic, and how much CO2 we complain and whine about.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:30 am“Methinks, thou doth protest too much.”
May 30th, 2006 at 11:45 amIsn’t it obvious by now that Fox News is any thing but “news”? If anyone listen to and buy what Fox News has to say, he or she might as well jump off the cliff. There is absolutely no value in propaganda based on greed and evil agenda, as what Fox News is all about.
Also, it’s rather amusing to find the over-simplified and shallow nature of the “conservatives”, a.k.a. rightwing greedy extremists. They always justify for their irresponsible and reckless action by blaming their opponents with messages of hatred and self-reflected envious overtone. In this case, it is those exploitive and greedy corporations that are spilling out their hatred toward the Earth, putting the rest of us at great risks in terms of health and economic stability, then turn around and spilling out messages of lies, deception, and hatred to cover-up their evil motive and doing, as always.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:49 amThis guy is pathetic and sad…. I feel sorry for him and his delusions of being apart of the “in” crowd in Washington …. Truly a sad commentary on what our “It’s all about Me – F everyone else!” society has allowed to happen to our young people’s values and sense of right and wrong…
May 30th, 2006 at 11:49 amIt’s dawned on me that this ilk (Fox News, Neo-Cons, fundies, IDers, etc.) have taken a collective technological leap in the science of propaganda.
By simplifying their message to the fewest, angriest, most easily-memorized (and therefore, parroted) words possible, they insure that a large number of people (without the skills or the inclination for critical analysis) automatically “flop” into their barrel, thereby increasing exponentially the number of mouthpieces echoing falsehoods they don’t even understand.
You got to hand it to ‘em. It is hard to come up with a response to “there’s no proof that global warming even exists” without going into the proof that global warming exists. Feel free to substitute evolution or WMD or gay marriage. The instant you go into the details, you lose 90% of your audience.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:52 amThe proof is in the pictures of glaciers taken over the past century, and ice core samples going back thousands of years.
You have two choices, you can continue to listen to people that have the best interest of the survival of the human race, or industry that only cares about next quarters profits. They will continue to do the minimum required by our government and nothing more. We all lose. There will be a day when many people will be unable to pay for homeowners insurance, due to more severe storms everywhere in the US.
I read a report that stated the amount of activity in HELL has gone up during the Bush administartion, it must be the rapture republicans.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:53 amHoenig is a sniveling douchebag.
-GSD
May 30th, 2006 at 11:59 amAll scientists (even the right-wingers) agree that global warming exists. Can the neo-con facists over at FOX get that into their pea-sized brains? Their comments are so outrageous that it’s as if they only say them for the shock value. And to please FNC’s far-right viewers of course.
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
GOP defends a criminal, again:
Right now on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
May 30th, 2006 at 12:00 pmMore troops going to Iraq. Where’s the promised “withdrawl”: Give us your opnion.
Only on SSA;
Folks, don’t bother posting information to support scientific findings to throw at people like this. They KNOW they are lying. They simply do not care about anything at all except what seems to satisfye their needs at this particular moment.
May 30th, 2006 at 12:32 pmAs far as global warming goes, it is too late. We have crossed the threshold. Once the peat bogs start the emissions the warming will be rapid and devastating. Right now we need to develop the green technology just to survive underground as a species.
Hug your children, love your family, work to make it better but reserve me a table for three in hell with asshats like this and those that believe them.
God help us when idiots like this clown go on Fox “News” and spew this nonsense. What’s weird is he almost looks like a male version of Katherine “Cruella” Harris.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:07 pmIf we hook this guy up with Ken Mehlman do you think we can be rid of them both?
May 30th, 2006 at 1:14 pm[...] These kinds of reports have been popping up on Fox a lot lately. My favorite part is the caption proclaiming what is clearly meant to be a “nutty” statement by Bill Clinton that global warming is worse than terrorism, which is punctuated by at runner about our “fallen heroes,” drawing extra attention to the immediate casualties of terror (because Americans love immediate, and news outlets love to continuously link the war in Iraq to terrorism rather than despotism). [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 1:30 pmthe other day i was on a thread on a popular website, and half of the people under 25 believed this nonsense. ALL of the people w/ a college degree agreed w/ me that Global Warming is REAL. that just says something there.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:35 pmThis is exactly the problem with TV news discussions — there is never any fact checking (in large part because anchors won’t call pundits on their shit), the hacks know this, so they feel free to say whatever brainwashing BS that suits their view.
May 30th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWallaby, here is the url:
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html
May 30th, 2006 at 1:54 pmDid anyone else notice that in the background was a very polluted, smogged city?
May 30th, 2006 at 2:05 pmThis is another perfect example of what is wrong with our country. First we have the friends of ours… you know who they are, they listen to a soundbite from the neo-conservatives echo chamber, repeat it, thinking, “I’m smart, I can repeat something I heard”… and they do no research, and much like that game of telephone we played as 5 and 6 year-olds, dumb down America.
I have a great idea, why don’t we have Jonathan Hoenig and any of his other blow hard know nothings do something novel next time before they open their mouth… know what it is they’re talking about, do a little research into the topic and then they won’t come off sounding like Pee-Wee Herman on Acid.
Come on people, we are smarter than this!
May 30th, 2006 at 2:06 pmThis despicable little man is an example of what’s wrong, morally and economically, with unbridled Ayn Rand capitalism. He calls himself “The Capitalist Pig.” Well, he got the “pig” part right.
One thing about global warming, though. It will never make the earth as hot as where this fool is going to end up.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pmPlease tell me experts in the last 30 years show me quantatively with actual measures (not hocus pocus computer models-I can make a model show anything I want) how much of temperture change in NATURAL and how much is from MAN.
After looking at each one they all rely on ANTIDOTAL observations and coincidental associations. No “proof†at all.
Also searching each links information does not provide a SINGLE declaration of what the understand of what the earth would be doing naturally in its cycles from cool to hot.
Again when you have MANMADE CHANGES (UNKNOWN) + NATURAL CHANGES (UNKOWN)= BIG FAT UNKNOWN.
For all the Greenie scientific community really knows the earth could be in a naturally occurring heating stage of 3 degrees a decade and all the CO2 is producing clouds to reflect solar warming to REDUCE global warming. Since they have no clue what the earth would be doing on its own all the effort to reduce CO2 could have the opposite effect and allow the earth to heat up faster…..
I will make it real simple for you guys……show me just ONE definitive proof of an understanding and the ability to predict what the earth is doing all by itself in its natural cycles of heating and cooling. Once that is a know factor then and only then can you start to understand if man is doing anything positive or negative.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:14 pmIs this the same christian analyst who (referring to the stock market) argued that “GREED IS GOOD”
May 30th, 2006 at 2:22 pm“I will make it real simple for you guys……show me just ONE definitive proof of an understanding and the ability to predict what the earth is doing all by itself in its natural cycles of heating and cooling. Once that is a know factor then and only then can you start to understand if man is doing anything positive or negative.
Comment by Jim Todd — May 30, 2006 @ 2:14 pm”
Hey Jimmy boy why do you think all the ice bergs are melting and the ozone problem coming from. You must be another FAUX news ostrich right? You spent a lot of time writing all that drivel. There have been hundreds of SCIENTISTS recently that have categorically stated the problem. Any you take the word of some FAUX news oddball…..you need a cranial transplant. Put that ostrich head back in there sand man.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:30 pmMr. Todd,
While I contemplate your request, would you please provide me and this community the courtesy of presenting us with some proof of relativity, continental drift, atomic theory, and/or evolution (or if you also believe this to be a hoax I’ll settle on proof of God’s existence).
If the consensus of the ENTIRE scientific community is simply nonsense in your mind, I suppose you also extend your distrust when it comes to your health and medical services? Do you live in a stoneage? One absent of all of the technologies and intellectual curiosities we have as a direct result of this same scientific community.
What I understand from the very small and fringe group of crazies who are grasping on to the idea of maintaining a debate is that they pick and choose when science is sound and when it is bogus. I suggest we leave that up to the scientists themselves, afterall peer review has done our civilization pretty well for the last several millenia.
May 30th, 2006 at 2:59 pmErr, Jim Todd asshat at large,
the heat trapping qualities of these gasses are undisputed. This means that they will not reflect solar heat to reduce warming. Your show me proof arguement is a reflection of your desire not to learn. Start out on the EPAs’ kids page so you can soak up some information to start you along.
Use a search engine, go take a look.
People who continue to spout these idiotic opinions that global warming isn’t real and that if it is, it’s natural are mind boggling ostriches in the sand. There is nothing we can say at all that a simple “global warming, studies .gov” won’t change your mind.
Find us some scientific studies that support your claim that global warming is a natural occurance and not caused by man. PLEASE.
Find us a shred of even an inclination by any scientist that CO2 or methane gasses will reduce global wamring.
This is what 2/3 of the people on this post have been saying Jimmie, Take your head out of your ass and read up for yourself on what you hear,
May 30th, 2006 at 3:05 pmWhen the earth says no more we as a race are going to cease to exist. It isn’t going to be grand and glorious nor will it be some sort of transformation into a god like being it will be just a miserable long death. We as a race are finished no matter what Faux news or the insane right wing nuts think just a horrible long drawn out death watching the children die. But know this the earth will come back and survive because the earth does not need us to survive we however need the earth. So go now and die in the best way you see fit.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:07 pmGlobal Warming = wrong issue to debate
Don’t fall for this sort of trap. Global warming or not is the wrong question.
Who gets to decide questions of risk based on science – risk that impacts our immediate life and limb – that is the question.
This Administration and corporate America has taken that role away from where environmental law placed it — in the hands of a disinterested, independent regulatory agency, and put it into the hands of politically connected, economically interested, biased “scientists.”
Thus, toxic chemicals are now no more harmful to you than brussels sprouts and a little asthma between friends can be a good thing, dontcha think?
Identify which issues are important and refuse to debate those that are mere symbols of our misdirected public agenda.
which is more important in politics, so-called “social” issues based on codes of religious dogma or economic justice and equal opportunity?
May 30th, 2006 at 3:13 pmStill waiting on that one link from that pool of “ENTIRE scientific community†that can clearly show proof and understanding of the earth’s natural heating and cooling cycles….since global temperature cycles are made up of two factors NATURAL and MANMADE… After you provide the natural data that clearly demonstrates what affect is natural the we can talk about any affect MAN may be having.
Until the underlying natural heating and cooking cycle phenomena is understood all your antidotal observations are hocus pocus ….fiction
Waiting………..this should be a slam dunk if they really understood it……
May 30th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#
Find us some scientific studies that support your claim that global warming is a natural occurance and not caused by man. PLEASE.
I make no such claim….because no one knows……..that is my point…..there is not one shred of evidence that can differentiate between what is occurring is natural or man made.
Until that information is know all the ranting about the end of civilization is nothing more than dogma
May 30th, 2006 at 3:26 pm#156 I make no such claim….because no one knows……..that is my point…..there is not one shred of evidence that can differentiate between what is occurring is natural or man made.
So if your position is that you don’t have any idea, why sistematically you only attack one side, the ecologist one? You’re not as balanced and unbiased you pretend.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:37 pmEvidently he is not aware that the Pentagon and the World Bank find the science of Global Warming credible enough to be planning their response to it.
At this point does it really MATTER who or what is causing it…? It is real, it is probably going to get worse…We are NOT going to “fix” it …so all that matters is how we as a species and society adapt to it…Finger pointing is not going to save lives.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:39 pmJust because I was born at night, doesn’t mean I was born last night. This guy is a fool if he thinks gobal warming is a lie. Why doesn’t he take his no girlfriend having, fox kool-aid drinking, brain washed, the stock market is my life, without money I’m nothing, ugly A-s back where he came from and shut up.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:40 pm#156 I make no such claim….because no one knows……..that is my point…..there is not one shred of evidence that can differentiate between what is occurring is natural or man made.
So if your position is that you don’t have any idea, why sistematically you only attack one side, the ecologist one? You’re not as balanced and unbiased you pretend.
Easy, because that is the side that is asking me (and everyone else in the world) to change my life practices…..
May 30th, 2006 at 3:44 pmEvidently he is not aware that the Pentagon and the World Bank find the science of Global Warming credible enough to be planning their response to it.
At this point does it really MATTER who or what is causing it…? It is real, it is probably going to get worse…We are NOT going to “fix†it …so all that matters is how we as a species and society adapt to it…Finger pointing is not going to save lives.
The Pentagon and the World Bank plan for POSSIBILITES….
As for what is causing it you are assuming (falsely, until proven) that MAN is causing the warming…..to date since NO ONE knows or understands the earth’s natural cycles and they can not predict them..the earth could flip to a cooling period this afternoon that could last 1000 years……no one knows and spouting something like it is a KNOWN fact is pure dogma based on “beliefs†not reality.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:50 pmHey Mr. Todd I suppose you also believe that the extinction of thousands of animals is all just a simple mother of nature deal? Why have so many animals and other creatures and fauna become extinct in the last 100 years alone. You need some schooling and not be sucking at the FAUX news teat so much. I bet you believe every word Rush Windbag and O’Really have to say also.
The point is…is that it is not convenient for BIG BUSINESS to agree with the global warming issue or the extinction issue…money money money is all they believe in. Soon all the money will be worthless to anyone due to their and your ignorance and greed.
May 30th, 2006 at 3:51 pmThe man is dumb as dirt. But so is the 29% of which he would be considered an intellectual. From personal experience after I suggested to folks on my neighborhood e-mail group might try riding bicycles or transit to cut pollution, expenses ($14,0000 per year) traffic conjestion and global warming, I was declared a “vehicle hater, “communist” (a good old classic) and “French” after my declaring the Iraq war a lie. These people will NOT learn. Along with ‘Creationism”, “Intelligent design” geocentrism (on the rise) and “Intelligent Falling” THEY will take us back to the Stone Age. How can they say that when their world is only 6,000 years old in their biblical perspective??? Dumb as dirt….
May 30th, 2006 at 3:55 pmJim, we cannot predict terrorist attacks either, but our administration (and I assume you and the all of our citizens) are hell bent on doing whatver it takes to prevent them.
Jim, have you ever heard of the cautionary principle? It basically states that when there exists enough evidence to mount concern (i.e, burning fossil fuels emits CO2; CO2 is a heat trapping gas, etc.) one must take the most cautious set of steps in order to avoid disaster. Who is asking you to change your life? Unless you own a pulvarized coal plant I’m fairly confident you won’t notice much change in your lifestyle…I suppose there is one other circumstance under which your fret is reasonable…are you one of those guys so self-conscious that you must drive a Hummer to make up for your short comings as an individual?
May 30th, 2006 at 4:26 pmThis guy gets more annoying every time I hear him speak. I used to give his opinions on the stock market and the economy some credence because he sounded like he knew what he was talking about. Well at least he sure did think he knew what he was talking about. But the more I hear him spout off about things he has no understanding of, the more I realize he is just an obnoxious mouthpiece. He should keep his lame opinions to himself. His area of expertise is the stock market and investments, but for some reason he finds it necessary to opine about all sorts of other things like how great it would be if we would just bomb the hell out of Iran, or in this case denying the undeniable fact of global warming. What’s next, holocaust denial? He should leave the science to the scientists and the bombing to the military strategists, and keep his idiot opinions to himself. Hey Jonathan if I want to know what stock to buy or what precious metals fund to invest in, I’ll call you, and even then I probably won’t listen to you because you have proven yourself to be intellectually inferior on so many other subjects.
May 30th, 2006 at 4:28 pmConservatives have spent 30 years working hard to confuse people on issues of science. They did not like scientific findings regarding Reagan’s Star Wars Initiative (it couldn’t work) nor on environmental issues so they decided to create their own set of “Think Tanks” where an alternate reality of science could be created. That new reality would not be based upon the scientific method, where hypotheses are objectively tested thorough experimentation and observation but through a new conservative paradigm. That paradigm, in which an idealogical view is first posed and then “facts” and opinions which support that view are put forward while all other information is discarded, has come to full fruition in the Bush administration. Chris Mooney has documented this 30 year history of truth bending in his book: The Republican War on Science. http://www.waronscience.com/
As it says in the Bible: “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. People like Hoenig have been trained well by a well-funded (including Exxon-Mobile) decades-old propaganda campaign.
Stephen Nodvin
May 30th, 2006 at 4:58 pmStill waiting on that link to prove me wrong……..that we know how much of climate change is natural and how much is man made???……come guys you can do it. See what I mean, all you have is dogma on par with religion…..based soley on “belief” nothing more.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:23 pmI have a family member who is an environmental chemist at 3M. He is a graduate of Caltech and as stated, works for a large chemical manufacturer. He was raised by Republicans, and is rather conservative on many issues. He says global warming is a fact. What the scientists don’t know, is, they don’t have a model to predict the effects of global warming. For instance, when do we reach a critical point from which there is no return? Is global warming incremental, or will we reach a point, where global warming suddenly goes into overdrive? That is what scientists don’t know. He told me that all the claims that global warming isn’t happening have origninated in academia by a handful of professors who get their research money from the oil companies. They are the only ones who refuse to recognize the fact, that global warming is a current reality.
May 30th, 2006 at 5:25 pmThis guy is a dam retard!!!
May 30th, 2006 at 5:40 pmI’m still waiting for you to provide proof of relativity.
This does not require me providing you with a link…follow the dotted line…you burn oil…chemical reaction releases CO2…CO2 ascends to the upper atmosphere where it is trapped…the sun’s energy enters the atmosphere, reflects off earth toward space and is absorbed and reradiated by CO2 back to Earth…what don’t you understand? Nothing previously stated is contested.
Its very simple. No one is saying there is some sinister plot to kill our planet. Its simply an unfortunate truth (I realize thats awfully close to Gore’s film title) that burning fossil fuels resulst in this trend. How does one prove science to a hell bent skeptic? Who proved gravity to you? Do your own little experiement…this one is designed for K through 8th graders, I assume you can handle that level of science?
http://www.fi.edu/tfi/activity/earth/earth-5.html
May 30th, 2006 at 6:00 pm“Still waiting on that link to prove me wrong……..that we know how much of climate change is natural and how much is man made???……come guys you can do it. See what I mean, all you have is dogma on par with religion…..based soley on “belief†nothing more.”
I believe I gave you studies that were conclusive in their findings for what you wanted.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:21 pmTry reading sometime.
Please read very carefully my posts. I have no problems with anyone saying and providing tangible data one area of the earth is warming or cooling. The earth is always either warming or cooling.
But there is no, zip , nada “proof†that there is a cause and effect created by man…..
The 500 pound gorilla in the room you greenies seem to refuse to see it “what is the natural cycleâ€â€¦â€¦in all the models the makers have to assume one of three things in their algorithms….and that is the earth is naturally cooling, is static , or is warming. Then on top of that we have the man made effect if any.
Now since we have no clue where the earth is in a cycle naturally and we can not predict which way it is going, that part of the equation is nothing more than a guess and fake variable plugged into a model……And what is so amazing is the folks who claim to the intellectuals are willing to accept as gospel a mathematical formula with a unknown variable that could constitute 99% of the change in the result.
As a test go out and read in depth the model footnote assumptions……notice the total lack of a mention of the natural cycle…..it is in their calculations, it has to be, but notice they do not mention it because it is so poorly understood and would cast doubt on the validity of the model…..might explain why they have to keep “adjusting†their models you folks accept as gospel.
May 30th, 2006 at 6:33 pmThe Sky is falling The Sky is falling
May 30th, 2006 at 6:40 pmLikewise there is just as valid a theory (remember man made global warming is still a theory) …follow the dotted line…you burn oil…chemical reaction releases CO2…CO2 ascends to the upper atmosphere where it is trapped…the sun’s energy enters the atmosphere, reflects off earth toward space and is absorbed and reradiated by CO2 back to Earth it raise temperatures that cause more water to evaporate and cause more cloud cover which blocks solar heating which cause global cooling..…
But again the 500 pound gorilla in the equation you guys refuse to acknowledged
..and I keep asking what part is the earth’s natural cycle contributing to any warming ..10% 50% 90%….no one knows and all of your models HAVE to plug in that vastly UNKOWN variable….resulting junk science ….. what don’t you understand?
May 30th, 2006 at 6:40 pmOh where oh where is Bin La -a – den
May 30th, 2006 at 7:11 pm6′ 5″ with a ashiny dialysis machine
With his turbin high and his beard all black
Oh forget it.
The weathers fine –gone fishing in the newly melted caps.
In Response to Jim Todd’s comment:In Response to Jim Todd’s comment:
Jim we actually do know that current climate warming is human induced.
There is a consensus among virtually all scientists (except for a handful of,
often industry-sponsored, outspoken ones). As mentioned earlier in the
original post, Dr. Naomi Orskes reviewed the scientific literature from the past
decade. Out of almost a thousand papers, all were in agreement that the
Earth is warming and that the present warming is human induced. (See for
yourself HERE.)
The consensus is spelled out in more detail
HERE by climate
scientists at
realclimate.org.
This consensus is not just a "belief" as you say. Scores of
scientists for decades have been working on the problem. Theses scientists
have reached this consensus through decades of real-time measurements, analysis
of historical records going back hundreds of years, analysis of geological
records going back tens of thousands of years, and computer simulations of
possible future that were based on all of the previous information.
The results of these studies have been both debated in countless scientific
forums and published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. (If you
have never had the experience of attempting to publish in a peer-reviewed
scientific journal, I and other scientists would be happy to tell you about the
extreme scrutiny that is given to any submitted work. I can assure you
that an idea submitted for publication that is based purely on belief and
not backed by strong scientific evidence would have difficulty getting printed
in any peer-reviewed journal).
You ask "how much is natural and how much is man made?" While
climate is complex, scientists have worked very hard to answer this question.
The summary report from 2001 of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
(HERE) stated the
following:
New reconstructions of the surface temperature record of the last 1,000
years indicate that the temperature changes over the last 100 years are
unlikely to be entirely natural in origin, even taking into account the large
uncertainties in palaeo-reconstructions.
The rate of anthropogenic (human caused) warming is likely to lie in
the range 0.1 to 0.2°C/decade over the first half of the 21st century
An update to the IPCC report will be released in February 2007.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:36 pmInformation from drafts of the report indicate that ongoing studies and data are
providing stronger scientific evidence of global warming. Information that
has been made public indicates that the draft report states taht warns that the
global average temperature will likely climb by around three degrees Celsius (
about 5 degrees Fahrenheit) by 2100 if atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse
gas continue rising at current trends.
Stephen Nodvin
I see the system does not like HTML, hopefully this formatting is better:
In Response to Jim Todd’s comment:
Jim we actually do know that current climate warming is human induced.
There is a consensus among virtually all scientists (except for a handful of, often industry-sponsored, outspoken ones). As mentioned earlier in the original post, Dr. Naomi Orskes reviewed the scientific literature from the past decade. Out of almost a thousand papers, all were in agreement that the Earth is warming and that the present warming is human induced. (See for yourself HERE.)
The consensus is spelled out in more detail HERE by climate
scientists at
realclimate.org.
This consensus is not just a "belief" as you say. Scores of scientists for decades have been working on the problem. Theses scientists have reached this consensus through decades of real-time measurements, analysis of historical records going back hundreds of years, analysis of geological records going back tens of thousands of years, and computer simulations of possible future that were based on all of the previous information.
The results of these studies have been both debated in countless scientific forums and published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. (If you have never had the experience of attempting to publish in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, I and other scientists would be happy to tell you about the extreme scrutiny that is given to any submitted work. I can assure you that an idea submitted for publication that is based purely on belief and not backed by strong scientific evidence would have difficulty getting printed in any peer-reviewed journal).
You ask "how much is natural and how much is man made?" While climate is complex, scientists have worked very hard to answer this question.
The summary report from 2001 of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
(HERE) stated the
following:
An update to the IPCC report will be released in February 2007. Information from drafts of the report indicate that ongoing studies and data are providing stronger scientific evidence of global warming. Information that has been made public indicates that the draft report states taht warns that the global average temperature will likely climb by around three degrees Celsius (about 5 degrees Fahrenheit) by 2100 if atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gas continue rising at current trends
Stephen Nodvin
May 30th, 2006 at 7:50 pmTry THIS equation… Total warming = Increasingly harmful to humans = Natural warming + Human warming. We MUST decrease the Total warming… and we have no control on the Natural warming. Therefore, whatever we can do to decrease the Human contribution will help our species survive, although it will lower the profits of the controlling oligarchy… GET IT? So which should get precedance? The luxury of the few, or the survival of the many?
Yes, it’s POSSIBLE that the planet will be destroyed tomorrow by a Supervolcano, or a crust penetrating meteor, or the Sun going Nova… natural ecodisasters… but our current state of technology doesn’t allow us to prevent such disasters… but we DO know that continuing on our current course of burning fossil fuels will have a similar effect over a longer period – and THIS is something we can change. Something we would be negligently CRAZY to NOT attempt to change! ‘Staying the course’ or ‘placing head in sand’ are not reasonable approachs to survival when charging over a cliff!
May 30th, 2006 at 7:53 pmOh, man! And I thought that this guy was the intellectual bright spot on cable! How dare TP let me down so hard! I’m just shocked, shocked, I tell you. Commentators just making $&;+ up, I just don’t know what to do!
May 30th, 2006 at 8:00 pmHAHAHAHAH “consensus” does not make it fact. By scientific standards it is nothing more than a belief a bunch “feel” is correct. Sorry to convince me you have to FACTS of reproducible data that is undisputable not a “consensus”…
AGAIN WHERE IS THE DATA THAT PROVES WHAT THE NATURAL EFFECT IS……….something like this year the earth warmed .2 degrees naturally next year it will be .3 and in 2030 we will see it cool down….and it actually happened….like I said man made global warming is nothing more that a belief and you have not disproved that with a
May 30th, 2006 at 8:09 pm“consensus”. Remenber there was a tiem the great minds of the world all agreed to the “consensus” the world was flat until it was factually disproved….man made global warming is still in the flat earth stage…get me fact not “consensus”….waiting
‘LIKELY”
May 30th, 2006 at 8:21 pm‘LIKELY†is a GUESS not a provable fact…sort of like the time “the LIKELY consensus†amoung great minds is the earth is FLAT.
waiting…………
May 30th, 2006 at 8:24 pm“AGAIN WHERE IS THE DATA THAT PROVES WHAT THE NATURAL EFFECT IS”
Answered in one of the noaa links.
Read the links for the reports and check out how the studies were done several different ways by different groups that all turned out to come to the same conclusions.
What have you got against following links?
You are getting pretty shrill and screechy but we all can see you’re not wearing any clothes.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:30 pmJim:
How do you determine when something is a “fact”? Scientists make observations and then use those observations to make predictions about the future. If new observations or evidence comes to light, the science has to change to reflect the new observation.
Meteorologists have 100 years of weather observations from which to make predictions. If the todays conditions are the same or similar to those in the past just before a thunderstorm occurred, then the weather person can make a projection that there is likely to be a thunderstorm. With enough data, some probabilities can be assigned.
Climate scientists are doing nothing more magical than using current and past observations to project what will likely happen in the future. The geologic record on Earth (including data from ice cores)provides us with data from tens of thousands of years of what happened in the past when green house gas concentrations changed. We have a good understanding of the cycles of carbon and other greenhouse gazes so we can “add-up” how much of these gases are being put into the atmosphere by humans. (Nothing more complicated than balancing a “checkbook” for carbon on a global scale).
So call it a “belief” if you want but the best information we now have points to increasing global temperatures due to increases in greenhouse gases which have been primarily been due to human activity.
Stephen Nodvin
May 30th, 2006 at 8:31 pmNone of the right wingers cared about the facts when we left Osama in Bora Bora and went to Iraq to find WMD’s.
Now all of a sudden it is all about facts. Never mind that the government is making made up news stories and suppresing scientific studies that they don’t like.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:35 pmFox News: Wholly Without Merit
(From the judge’s decision in the Al Franken “Fair and Balanced” lawsuit…)
May 30th, 2006 at 8:39 pm[...] Read More » [Think Progress] Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 8:48 pmWow. Jim, do you think there is enough evidence for evolution?
How about enough evidence to invade iraq for the Great WMD Hunt?
….Nuff said
May 30th, 2006 at 8:50 pmSome facts for Jim:
Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels since 1000 AD.
The inset graph is from direct measurements made on Hawaii by Keeling since the 1950s. (Keeling chose the island of Hawaii since there are not any big industries nearby).
The full graph utilizes data from ice cores where trapped bubbles tell us about past atmospheric conditions.
http://www.bbsr.edu/Labs/co2lab/images/atmCO2variations.gif
The following figure is from the long-term data.
Stephen Nodvin
May 30th, 2006 at 9:08 pmthis stupid ‘is it real or is it fake’ debate is pointless.
it doesn’t matter if it’s real. people that want to argue against the existence of global warming are just selfish, lazy or ignorant, or a combination of all three.
argue against this, troglodytes:
-less pollution
-cleaner air and water
-a renewable energy industry that could easily supplant oil and coal
-the result of that industry: energy independence
-the result of energy independence: vastly improved national security
-the result of improved national security: the end of the ‘war on terror’, completely different (and largely more realistic) foreign policy goals
-the marginalization of the oil industry and its complete dominance of american politics, the economy and foreign/domestic policies
-the end of ‘the great global warming debate’, which obviously rankles a lot of the cave people who would rather believe whoever tells them they don’t have to do anything
-a better world for future generations
argue science all you want. it’s a waste of time and misses the point:
May 30th, 2006 at 9:17 pmfor the good of america and the world, we should be making the changes whether global warming is real or not
More “facts” for Jim.
Here is a graph of measurements of temperature and atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations going back hundreds of thousands of years from ice cores from Antarctica. (Carbon dioxide was determined from air bubbles trapped in the ice. Global temperatures are estimated from the isotopic composition of the water itself).
http://www.koshland-science-museum.org/exhibitgcc/images/historical02.gif
There is clearly a correlation between climate and carbon dioxide.
The naysayers will argue that the Earth’s temperature has fluctuated greatly in the past over geologic time. WHICH IS TRUE. The problem is that these prehistoric changes occurred over many thousands of years. The annual rate of increase in carbon dioxide concentrations (which is now 2 ppm per year) has not risen this quickly in at least 200,000 years.
In science we use a rule called “Occam’s razor”. Always try to use the simplest explanation to explain your observations. If Jim can provide a simpler explanation besides the advent of the human industrial revolution to explain the current rapid rise in CO2 levels during the last 200 years, I certainly would like to hear it.
Stephen Nodvin
May 30th, 2006 at 9:24 pmBoy, Jim Todd doesn’t read to much, do he?
May 30th, 2006 at 9:25 pmJim Todd is a big part of the Global Warming problem. He is spewing too much CO2 from is mouth and anal sphincter.
Turn on FAUX news Jim and have a good whack off for yourself, and calm down for Christ’s sake… you are a pathetic waste of skin man withthe ideas you try to present.
You actually sound like one of their commentators (so called comentators I should say).
Night night Jimmy boy don’t let the bed bugs bite ya.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:56 pmJim, I thought your posts were kind of interesting until I got to the sentence referring to “junk science”. My “Fraud Alert” alarms were activated.
A savant you may be, in something besides science. (maybe dog grooming?)
regards,
mike
May 30th, 2006 at 10:41 pm[...] As reported in Think Progress, Fox News analyst Jonathan Hoenig reported this weekend that global warming was “bogus,†and “dreamed up†by environmentalists to stop economic development. http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/29/global-warming-bogus/ There’s no scientific proof that global warming even exists. To be honest, it’s a bogus consensus dreamed up by Greens because they hate industry. They hate advancement. They hate technology…Greens will lead us back to the stone ages. [...]
May 30th, 2006 at 11:08 pmIf global warming is not happening, Then I want the Government to tell us
May 31st, 2006 at 1:35 amwhat all the Chemtrails are for???
Why should we take this seriously? Let’s just wait; wait until there is evidence “I” consider “scientific” that Proves man and 100 years of industry world-wide has any effect on the environment. How could that ever be true? Let’s just wait, and wait, and wait. Your kids won’t care; mine don’t. We deny, I say Deny this will have any serious health impact on the grandkids. . . :-} Get a job.
May 31st, 2006 at 1:45 amthis makes me sad.
May 31st, 2006 at 6:55 amnow i am mad.
f these self serving greedy blood sucking bastards.
this charlie has had it up to here.
This one is my favorite! A correlation does IS NOT A CAUSE AND EFFECT.
As an example you can just as easily replace the CO2 curve with the number of dairy cattle. Dairy cattle have increased over the last 100 years. I could make just a valid statement. Since dairy cattle increases are directly correlated to climate! Same could be said TV sets!
The fact still remains that not a single poster has addressed and the SILENTECT IS DEFENING and very revealing in your ease at which you do not challenge known and unknown facts but accept a “belief†because it fits you agenda………SHOW ME ANY DATA THAT DEMONSTRATS ANY UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE THE CURRENT NATURAL EARTH CYCLE TODAY.
Here for the mathematically challenged….take any MAN-MADE number you care to choose…(there a many to choose from since none can be proven) and subtract it from any model you choose (again-there many to choose from since none can be proven).
What you have left will be what the “consensus†of scientist “believes†is the natural cycle. Now ask them you prove ithat projection…..and they will not be able to.
So what you got is a “guess†of the man-made component and a “guess†at the natural component….sorry guys that is JUNK SCIENCE…by any standard.
As for my background I retired after 20 years instructing in the operation, installation, and repair of analytical instruments, mass spectrometers, gas chromatographs, atomic emission detectors, diode array detectors……, we haven’t even touched on all those measurements you rely on as valid……or the tuning and calibration of the instruments that took measurements. But just a hint……80% of all “perceived†instrument malfunctions are operator error…..so forgive me if I doubt the quality of the measurements you rely on..20 years in the field taught differently.
I will be moving on now my friends since we all know so well you can not change a persons “religious beliefs†and that is all man made global climate change is at this point….I will wait until real facts are known before I agree it.
May 31st, 2006 at 9:14 amI will address this last one just because it makes my point so well….
Since we have no clue where the earth is in a cycle it could be in a cooling cycle that would result in a 2 degree drop over the next 50 years and man-made global warming affect is 2.5 degrees over the same period..the result the man made effect is actually GOOD and prevents a mini ice age.
So by acting on junk science simply because “we have to do something†you run just a great a risk of doing harm to the everything…..that is why to those of us on the rational side we what more concrete data to decide what to do.
May 31st, 2006 at 9:21 amAnd one last one for grins
Sorry but it seems you are wrong on this one also………seems only 300 years is plenty of time for a dramitic change……
May 31st, 2006 at 9:36 am
Cya “Followers of the Faith”
May 31st, 2006 at 9:38 amThis guy is unbelievable…..wait no he isn’t. Sadly, he is par for the course. I would suggest that he take a look at the research being done on the core samples from Antarctica taken by EPICA. Yes, there are cycles in the climate BUT those cycles are what is proving that human activity is having a profound impact on the climate. I would think that if the effort he put into that mammoth post were directed to, lets say, actually reading the scientific research, this would be a non-issue. He said “SHOW ME ANY DATA THAT DEMONSTRATS ANY UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE THE CURRENT NATURAL EARTH CYCLE TODAY.” That shows that he has not even looked. Here’s a couple of searches that may work for him. Paleoclimatology, ice cores, and climate cycle. The data is out there, you just have to look for it and not wait for Fox News to give it to you.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:24 amYo Jim Todd – far be it from me to argue with someone that’s installed analytical equipment as an authority on all that bogus research being done by people with bogus doctorate degrees… qualifications like yours can’t be attained through years of careful thought and research. No sir!
Myself: 14 years of postsecondary in earth science, interned with Wally Broecker at Columbia (most revered Geochemist on the planet), many many weeks at sea measuring ocean chemistry and light propagation, stint at JPL as an Ocean Scientist developing algorithms to determine the amount of carbon uptake by phytoplankton photosynthesis from spaceborne instruments, etc. You know… “junk science”. And yeah, I’ve used electron-capture GCs and atomic absorption spectrometers. Thanks for installing them.
I do want to point one thing out though… cows and climate change. You make a point on the difference between correlation and causality (or, “cause and effect” as you call it). Cows emit methane. Lots of it. Increased cattle production means increased methane. Methane is a much more efficient heat trapping molecule than carbon dioxide. So your argument that dairy cattle are correlated to climate is not spurious, and in fact is likely one element of the overall causal relationship.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:53 amThere is a very good article in National Geographic and it clearly STATES the effect that cattle flatulence has had upon global warming. It lists numerous other effects that cause and increase it too. Even if its cattle that is a man made cause basically. The cattle did not decide to overpopulate so they could become our food. Poor things are contributing to global warming and then slaughtered mercilessly for our food chain… but that is another article, see PETA for the poor way those critters are killed.
Thanks for going of in a corner Jimmy Todd, please stay put. Keep watching FAUX, BTW Rush is on right now contributing to global warming with that big fat maw of his.
May 31st, 2006 at 1:30 pmDoes Mr. Hoenig really believe that people are this stupid? That is what this new (anti-Gore knee-jerk bashing) drivel is all about.
The republikan right has tried mightly to undermine science and science education in this country. Perhaps they are confident that they have succeeded and hence they are counting on the stupid to out vote the rational.
From what I have seen on Fox news and other stations they may well have a chance. Of course, it won’t prevent global warming that already a done deal thanks to the mindless among us who make no effort to alter their carbon footprints or recognize the serious of the threat.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:20 pmThe man’s title is…… FOX ANALYST? ! ……
Boy, I’ll bet that fires up your imagination, doesn’t it! Knowing that most of everything on FOX is total BS, why would something that is untrue NEED an ANALYST!?
May 31st, 2006 at 10:50 pm[...] Evidence: ThinkProgress has devoted a great deal of time to debunking the attempted debunking of the movie here, here, here, here and here. [...]
May 31st, 2006 at 10:55 pmAre you freaking kidding me??
June 1st, 2006 at 8:32 amI happen to agree with all of what he said about global warming. An article via the DrudgeReport showed that many years ago the Arctic was experiencing tropical weather ,and a few months ago scientists remarked that there was evidence of the same type of climate changes we have on the planet Mars where no one is living there.
Since thats the case its very accurate to say global warming is nothing but a made-up fallacy by people who hate American Industry and the Superpower status of the United States and wish to see us knocked down a peg or two.
Fmr Vice Pres. Al Gore is a perfect example of you, the posters, liberal hypocrisy. Gore has made a film and travels all around to warn us of the dangers of “global warming” yet when he leaves these speeches that he is paid Tons of money for he gets into a SUV convoy of oh maybe 5 or 6 vehicles that sit idling while he gives his speech, then its off to the airport to hop on that gas guzzling airplane of his..
That is just one of many examples to show that the ppl who believe this stuff don’t take it seriously and neither should you, Global Warming is just an illusion and to that I say wake up and smell the emissions!
June 1st, 2006 at 1:52 pm[...] “There’s no scientific proof that global warming even exists. To be honest, it’s a bogus consensus dreamed up by Greens because they hate industry. They hate advancement. They hate technology…Greens will lead us back to the stone ages.” (more on this) – Fox News analyst Jonathan Hoenig [...]
June 6th, 2006 at 12:45 pm[...] Global warming revisionist and right-wing nutcase Jonathan (”Hideous left-wing conspiracies are everywhere”) Hoenig appears to be a tragic example of such genetic mutations. Note his odd facial expression while foaming at the mouth on Fox News announcing, in bold defiance of the facts, that there is no proof of global warming and it’s a conspiracy by Greens who hate ‘advancement’ and want ‘to lead us back to the stone age.’ Greens, of course, favor the technologically advanced hybrid car, but let’s not confuse the addled Mr. Hoenig with an intrusion by reality. [...]
June 10th, 2006 at 11:39 amFunny, but all those disagreeing with the article are not quoting statistics, saying something scientific nor objective. Name-calling and ridicule seems the least common denominator. How about doing a search on “NO GLOBAL WARMING” and “GLOBAL WARMING” to see the tone of articles on either side? Quite revealing.
June 30th, 2006 at 8:36 pmBy the way, my last name is an ancient Spanish word for “cheek.” I wonder if that disqualifies me to make a comment?
Has anyone commenting on this article actually heard about the Eocene period?? It was about 35 to 50 million years ago in the history of the Earth and reasearch shows that it was far hotter then versus anytime in recent hitory. And I really loved your comments that about hottest years/times on tecord.. since we have only been keeping records for a little over 100 years.
July 22nd, 2006 at 9:53 pmAnd those wonderful Prius rivers?? All the research I have read is that it is actually more “hurtful” to the environment to produce a Prius than a regular car. And what you “save” the environment by driving it will not fix the damage done by building it. BUt don’t get me wrong – they are great little money makers for Toyota. I love them. I just prefer to BUY AMERICAN.
Attention all fox haters. Cashin is a stock show and Jonathan is a hedgefund manager with a title as a Fox Analyst. Most serious peope unlike yourselves don’t listen to a stock picker like Jonathan or Jim Cramer on issues of the environment t. Why do you take his statements as a Fox propaganda? Try watching a show before commenting and realize who the show is for. Maybe if you watched Cashin you could afford to by a Prius with your investments and make a contribution instead of whining like my 2 year old. BTW. I’m a republican that watches Fox, reads the NY Times and believes in global warming. The problem with liberals is they don’t know how to sell something because they shrill. Try selling that CO2 which causes global warming is increasing asthma in our youth… fossil fuels that create CO2 make us beholden to the middle east….that our economy is drunk on cheap oil and could be severly crippled if oil goes above 100, which I believe will happen in the next 5 years. Instead you concentrate that we are doomed that the caps are melting and sea level will raise 20 feet next year. Try increasing gas mileage by 10mph per car in America. Do the math… I sold my SUV last year for a sedan but I’m not ready to sign Kyoto and neither was your savior Clinton. He knew like everyone else in the US that it was a bad deal for developed countries and didn’t sign it until the last day in office. Nice job Gore…I mean Mr. Environment.
November 30th, 2006 at 11:31 pmActually the stocks guys is right. There is no reason for ecological agendas to hold back economic development. Either some of humankind can adapt to a Global Warming scenario or we go extinct.
Keep in mind that geological evidence says Global warming has taken place periodical as part of the natural cycle of the planet even in the absence of Humankind. Humans may add a few bricks on the climate scale as to whether it occurs now and how far it might swing.
Further most scientist supporting Global Warming during the reign of mankind scientist are saying that it appears the scales are already tipped for polar melt and full onslaught — even if every human died tomorrow.
December 23rd, 2006 at 6:42 amGlobal warming is about as honest and real as the science behind flouridating public water supplies. People now will even scream and yell for their flouridated water, not realizing it is just making them dumber and dumber, not knowing that they are ingesting industrial waste from the chimney scrubbers of aluminum factories, because “scientists” have convinced them that it’s good for their teeth. They don’t seem to notice the plain-to-see facts because some “expert” has told them otherwise.
We are in an interglacial period. Not to mention, the earth’s axial tilt fluctuates between 21 and 24 degrees over the course of 40,000+ years. Obviously the climate will fluctuate as higher latitudes tilt more towards the sun’s light and other parts tilt away. Obviously if we are in between glacial periods, the earth should seem a little warmer.
Don’t forget, a couple of scientists recently had to postpone their trip to the arctic to study the effects of global warming on polar bear populations because there was too much snow.
There’s a buck to be made by convincing us that we mere humans can actually affect the earth’s climate. But it is egotistical and silly to believe that we actually can impact the weather. The earth is way too big, and the processes that create our climate are way too large and complex for us to have more than a marginal effect upon it.
Hoenig’s thinking was correct back in the 80’s. Back then, it was greenies with an axe to grind about industry and progress. However, the people behind “global warming,” today, are in it for the money — there’s a lot of money to be made by forcing ordinary citizens to undertake expensive, draconian changes in their lifestyles. Something like $150 billion a year per nation if you abide by the kyoto protocols, and large industries get to buy their way out by purchasing “CO2 credits.” It’s all about money, today. It’s not science, it’s not fact. It is a theory and it has been adopted for profiteering.
December 29th, 2006 at 11:43 pmI think the people that try to convince everyone that global warming is “fact” are the same people who also want to reduce the world’s population to 500,000. They just want to get rid of all the rabble, the non-elite, non-wealthy folks, except for a few to be servants and laborers.
What better way than to convince everyone that they are the problem, and that they will ultimately need to be eliminated in order to reverse this “global warming”.
Pay attention to the groups and figure heads that are behind this. They are pretty much the same people who are all wrapped up in the “population control” agenda. The same NGO’s that pump unwitting africans with “vaccines” that are produced in the infected kidneys of monkeys, or filled with toxic levels of mercury are the same NGO’s that fund all the research into “global warming”.
Second hand smoke is “scientific fact”. As is fluoride for teeth, as mentioned in the comment above. But they are both politically or economically motivated, agenda-based scientific facts. (Second hand smoke cannot be twice as harmful to non-smokers than it is to smokers. Just think about that BS for a little bit and you’ll realize it was an agenda, and the science was formulated to support that agenda.)
December 30th, 2006 at 1:09 amWhat is the truth about global warming? Since 1870, the Earth’s temperature has risen one-half of 1 degree Celsius, i.e., almost imperceptibly, and most of this rise occurred before World War II. Since 1979, according to satellites and high-altitude balloons, the planet has begun to cool.
Second, of the 200 billion tons of carbon dioxide released annually into the atmosphere, 95 percent is the work of nature, only 5 percent the work of man. Mankind’s contribution to any global warming is thus inconsequential.
Finally, even if global warming is occurring, there is no reason to fear it. According to scientists, the Earth has warmed up by 5 to 9 degrees since the Ice Age. Were it not for that warming, much of the United States would still be glacier country.
While much good has been done in the name of “preserving the environment,” a wing of that movement has become a radical cult, its adherents intolerant zealots who believe themselves possessed of some great truth denied to the rest of us. Their goal is power; their ambition is to take control of the destiny of nations in the name of preserving and exalting their goddess: Mother Earth.
December 30th, 2006 at 1:38 amWith the global population at 6 billion and rising 9 billion and beyond and with the rise of the China and India how are you guys complaining about FOX and Hoenig going to stop global warming? None of the solutions that Al Gore or any the posts shown here even come close to solving the problem. So go ahead and make your “feel good” comments. Now all of you havel done your part to stop global warming – haven’t you. The people that have posted here are in effect no better than Hoenig because they really have no effect one way or the other on global warming regardless of the cause.
Al Gore and his like are really much worse than Hoenig because they propose only feel good solutions. Do the people here really think that driving a smaller hybrid car is going to offset their own ncreased jet travel? (But I really need that trip the Vegas, Hawaii, Paris, etc. etc. etc. ) Do the people here really think that the US will ultimately have more of an effect on the planet than China or India? At least Hoenig is consistent in his statements and actions.
January 4th, 2007 at 1:26 amok………..DUMB DUMB DUMB…..go look up global dimming….its PROVING global warming………………… this guys on CRACK and ONLY said this to get an extra “0″ in his check…..
February 12th, 2007 at 9:26 pmOh NOOOOOOO –
February 16th, 2007 at 2:48 pmThe sky is falling…. the sky is falling!
Amen to Bob’s in comment above and some of the others. It’s nice to see a few here have common sense.
I would really like to see some real scientific statistics before I jump on the global warming bandwagon. So far, no one has been able to show me any real data. All I have seen is a limited amount of highly biased media reports.
Also, I do not believe it is possible to take 50 years worth or less data and accurately predict “normal” climates.
It’s interesting that with all the recent hype on global warming, there have been record cold and record snows this past winter throughout much of the U.S.
Riiiiight…El Nino!!! :)
The last El Nino before this was a flop.
Although it’s best to err on the side of caution, don’t blow things out of proportion with reality.
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