Murtha on Haditha: ‘I Know There Was a Cover-up … The Chain of Command Tried to Stifle the Story’
Murtha on Haditha: ‘I Know There Was a Cover-up … The Chain of Command Tried to Stifle the Story’
Last November, a group of U.S. Marines apparently went on “the worst rampage by U.S. service members in the Iraq war, killing as many as 24 civilians in cold blood.” Today on ABC, Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) said that U.S. officials learned of the alleged massacre in Haditha “a few days” after it happened and organized a cover-up:
MURTHA: This is what the Marine Corps told me at the highest level. The Commandant of the Marine Corps was in my office just last week, so you know. I know there was a cover-up someplace. They knew about this a few days afterwards and there’s no question the chain of command tried to stifle the story. I can understand why, but that doesn’t excuse it. Something like this has to be brought out to the public, and the people have to be punished.
Murtha was also asked whether he thought the alleged massacre would have been made public if not for the Time magazine investigation published in March (read Time’s new follow-up report) His response: “No, I do not think it would have come out, and it’s unfortunate because this is how you lose the Iraqi people.”
Full transcript below:
GIBSON: I heard you tell George Stephanopoulos on Sunday that you believe this is murder, followed by a cover-up and I’ve heard you also say that what happened is well-known in Marine circles. Why are you so sure it was murder?
MURTHA: Charles, I started hearing about this probably right before the Time Magazine article and then I heard officially about it about two months ago. And there’s no question in my mind, when they pay people, as they did right after the incident - a team went into to investigate this immediately afterward. I mean it breaks my heart to think that Marines would do this. Hopefully, this is an isolated incident. But, you know, we’re supposed to be selling ideas of America, ideals of America, and we’re losing that war.
The reason we’ve lost the hearts and mind is these troops are under tremendous stress. Day after day these explosive devices go off, and if they don’t kill them that day, they hurt somebody, they wound somebody. And I see them at the hospitals. I see - they don’t know who the enemy is, they don’t know who they’re fighting, Iraq – and then they kill innocent people. There’s no question in my mind about what happened here. There was no gunfire. They killed four people in a taxi and then in addition to that, they went into the rooms and killed them. And I don’t know how many were involved in it, but it’s something that we cannot excuse. I can understand it, but it can’t be excused.
GIBSON: Jonathan just mentioned, there’s no charges yet filed against any of the Marines that were in this outfit, but Jonathan mentioned a moment ago, defense lawyers are already saying, well, there’s drone video and there is actual radio traffic to higher-ups that will give a different picture than you have been talking about of this incident. What do you know about that?
MURTHA: I can only tell you this, Charles. This is what the Marine Corps told me at the highest level. The Commandant of the Marine Corps was in my office just last week, so you know, I know there was a cover-up someplace. They knew about this a few days afterwards and there’s no question the chain of command tried to stifle the story. I can understand why, but that doesn’t excuse it. Something like this has to be brought out to the public, and the people have to be punished.
GIBSON: The commandant told you that this was a case of murder?
MURTHA: Charlie, don’t mince words here. The commandant said it was a very serious incident. He was not going to tell me it was murder, but everything looked to him just like it looks to me. He didn’t say that in so many words, but he told me exactly what happened.
[…]
GIBSON: In terms of a cover-up, do you think this ever would have come to light if Time Magazine hadn’t pursued this so relentlessly using the video form this human rights organization?
MURTHA: No, I do not think it would have come out, and it’s unfortunate because this is how you lose the Iraqi people. If you’re going to win a war like this, you got to promote the ideals and ideas of American democracy, and there’s no question in my mind that we’re losing it.
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And here come the trolls to attack a decorated war veteran for tellin gthe truth.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:13 pmCome on trolls, come here to tell us how Haditha never happened, that the whole thing is a leftist conspiracy to smear the troops, and Murtha is nothing but a hack.
The US needs to get out of Iraq now, or more massacres will continue to happen.
Shame.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:25 pmIf you don’t think this completely obliterates any shred of trust the Iraqis
May 30th, 2006 at 7:28 pmmight have had in the US mission there, you’d better get your head out of your
ass. BTW, don’t be too shocked when the level of violence there escalates
right about… oh, now.
Talking Points loading now………….Please wait.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:30 pmIt remains to be seen how thoroughly and effectively the Marines will investigate itself. The responsibility for this massacre does not lie with a few grunts, lieutenants, and captains. This is an indictment of those who put those troops in this position in the first place, which would place the blame squarely upon Rumsfeld and Bush. Those two, for starters, are the ones who should be tried in The Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity. The United States should remember that Justice Robert Jackson, the UnitedStates prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials, said that no country and no individual should be exempt from being held accountable for atrocities that are commited during war time, and that should mean that, at least theoretically, the United States should not be thought of as being above the law.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:30 pmDoesn’t Murtha know that the military establishment will not tolerate this kind of badmouthing. So some innocent poeple got massacred, what’s the big deal, it happens in war. Murtha needs to shut up and stop undermining our efforts in Iraq.
Sarcasm off now-
May 30th, 2006 at 7:32 pmI remember a little three line story on this on the fifteenth page, below the fold, back in November…then silence. So, in order for a common citizen to know the facts, evidently one would have to circumvent the military, hope a no-spin media outlet reports it, and then, never repeat the story on the phone. A country of laws…yeah, right.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:36 pmIraq is indeed a lot like Vietnam since our troops usually can’t determine who’s a filthy Arab terrorist and who’s a harmless civilian (if there is such a thing over there). In a case like that, you sometimes have to shoot FIRST or watch more of your buddies die or lose arms, eyes, hands, legs, faces, etc. I’d rather see Arabs die instead of my boys in uniform get tagged, so what’s the beef about Haditha? Most of these Arabs hate us anyway, so who cares if some of them get popped? Most of you wimps who make comments here, never had the essential, big, round ones it takes to wear a military uniform, so your comments are neutered and meaningless.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:36 pmArmy Ranger Pat Tillman
May 30th, 2006 at 7:37 pmYes, the punishment will fall on the enlisted men who were involved; but the full punishment and responsibility should fall on Bush and Rumsfeld. Bush for his illegal and unwarranted war in the first place and Rumsfeld for his stop loss program of returning GIs to the battle for multiple tours.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:39 pmI read a particularly gruesome accounting of the event today, as well as the effect it had on one of the Marines who arrived in the aftermath and has since returned to California.
In the heat of battle anyone can “snap” but in the cold situation room with Rumsfeld and Bush there is different circumstance.
I just saw the video of the house that they took afterwords.
My God. They shot those little kids in the head. Point blank range. Blood spattered to the ceiling.
Goddamn them to hell.
Goddamn Bush to hell.
Goddamn us all.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:39 pmI can’t believe #8 is for real. If he is, I hope he doesn’t represent America in any way.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:42 pmHow about we wait until they release the report of the investigation that Murtha is referring to? Someone killed 15-24 people, that’s for sure. The facts surrounding the event are still not clear, and I await the military’s final report on the issue instead of Murtha presenting what will for all intents and purposes be an incomplete picture of what happened.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:42 pmf you don’t think this completely obliterates any shred of trust the Iraqis
might have had in the US mission there, you’d better get your head out of your
ass. BTW, don’t be too shocked when the level of violence there escalates
right about… oh, now.
———————
As if the Abu Ghraib Photos helped, As if the Renditions helped? As if the Yellowcake Lies Helped? As if Aegis Mercenaries Helped?
As if the Mohammad Cartoons Helped? As bombing innocent people has helped? Lying to the World helped?
Its amazing that Bush Trolls even try to blame one person. The Biggest mess maker, the biggest screw up of all is still Don Rumsfeld Bush and Cheney and the PNAC Likudian Wackos of Kagan, Perle, Murdoch…..
May 30th, 2006 at 7:43 pm#
How about we wait until they release the report of the investigation that Murtha is referring to? Someone killed 15-24 people, that’s for sure. The facts surrounding the event are still not clear, and I await the military’s final report on the issue instead of Murtha presenting what will for all intents and purposes be an incomplete picture of what happened.
Comment by Seixon — May 30, 2006 @ 7:42 pm
The Soldiers took pictures, one of them on his cell phone camera. Why are you still here Seixon? Get your damn ass down to the recruiting office, NOW.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:45 pmJoe McCarthy whats the big deal?
How about the murder of childern ages 10..7..5..3..2…
that would be 5 BIG deals…
US Marines shooting children in cold blood……
May 30th, 2006 at 7:46 pmThe masacre in Haditha is the direct result of a disfunctional military.
Our military to this day does not know who the enemy is. Our soldiers are spoon fed propaganda and therefore are clueless as to what their mission is. Our soldiers have been lied to so many times they don’t know what to believe anymore.
Our soldiers are worn out and unhealthy. Their mental state has become that of a jello mold.
Of course, our soldiers killed a bunch of innocent Iraqi’s. Thats what they do, every day. They take orders from Dumbsfeld and other various murdering morons.
Our soldiers kill, some enjoy it and others don’t. Some are fit to be soldiers and others are not.
Recruiters are now trolling the mental institutions, it is going to get worse not better.
I’ll sign this, NOT PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN AT THIS TIME
May 30th, 2006 at 7:49 pmBetter watch your foul mouth Worpus. God doesn’t like to have His name taken in vain by fools.
And before you wet your diapers over some wasted Arabs, just remember, those same Arabs would have cut your throat, burned your corpse and hung you from a bridge.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:50 pmSo, Joe McCarthy, I ask you aagin.
If you hate Arabs so much, then why do you want to spread democracy in their country? If they are all bad, why not let Saddam conitinue torturing and killing them? Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to let Saddam do all the murdering?
May 30th, 2006 at 7:52 pmSexion you can wait for hell to freeze over…it won’t change the fact that US Marines shot children in cold blood..and those Marines might have to face murder charges..which will makje this story bigger than Abu Ghraib was…
May 30th, 2006 at 7:52 pmIt’s funny that the Right doesn’t want to see images of flag draped coffins, and images of dead children, and does not want to see Abu Graib photos. But at the same time want the results of the “military investigation” of itself, before making any judgements.
Seixon, you need to look at the pics and videos of whats happening.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:53 pmWhats really frigtening is how many times has this happened already???
Now that we KNOW the military chain of command covered this one up, how many of these other massacres that we’ve read about over the last few years are by our own soldiers? Remember there have been lots of massacres where they blame of course the insurgents, like they tried to do here.
What are the chances that this event was the ONLY one? What is the likelyhood that the ONLY time it happens we just happen to uncover it?
Chances are where theres one rat, theres a lot more.
This needs to stop NOW.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:55 pmMister Joe Mcarthy,
You defend God, and in the same breath discuss another human as being a “wasted Arab”. I wonder what God really thinks of all this?
I will waste an Arab when I see him coming my way with a sabre to cut my head off. Until then, everyone gets to live.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:56 pmArab tykes grow up to be Arab terrorists who cut throats and behead people, so I just can’t get too ‘bummed’ over some wasted Arabs. I see Iraq as a cursed Muslim land that deserves whatever it gets. Islam is no different from Nazism, and I say “Drop a few big nukes on Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Palestinians and every other dirty Muslim land where they who hike their butts in the air to Allah-the-moon-god.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:57 pmHaditha was the result of having to take the same town over and over again. In August,the latest operation began and it was there that the 6 Marine snipers were killed and at least one’s body was abused and outside Haditha was where 14 Marines,most from Ohio,were killed in a single incident.Their AAV was hit by an IED. The motivation is certainly not an excuse,but since Time published the story,briefings have occurred and the investigation continues. It seems unlikely the Marine Corps won’t come forth with an indictment of some of the soldiers.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:57 pmWhy there won’t be an indictment of Rumsfeld’s strategy is beyond me.
Who said I ‘wanted to spread democracy in Iraq?’ I want to spread A-Bombs in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria and in all Mohammeden lands.
May 30th, 2006 at 7:59 pmSo, Joe McCarthy, I ask you aagin.
If you hate Arabs so much, then why do you want to spread democracy in their country? If they are all bad, why not let Saddam conitinue torturing and killing them? Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to let Saddam do all the murdering?
Chicken Hawk.
Bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk bawk
May 30th, 2006 at 7:59 pmSo the Joe McCarthy, you admit we are only there for oil?
I am sorry, you are a man that can stand behid what he believes in.
Killing Arabs for oil. Good job.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:01 pm#19 Spudge Boy,
Good one, We know he can’t answer your question so we’ll just leave him alone to conjure up his loving image of Osama Bin Ladens sphincter.
LIck, lick Joe!
May 30th, 2006 at 8:01 pmFor those that hadn’t figured it out Joe McCarthy = I-RIGHT-I. That stinky fool fills any room with the smell of toilets.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:01 pmHey Joe.
You worship God?
You think an American baby is worth more in the eyes of that God than a Iraqi baby?
He doesn’t. The Bible you idiots are always thumpin says they’re both equal.
But you want to know whose not worth a steaming pile of horse manure to God? You want to see this pathetic wretch?
Just look in the mirror.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:02 pmThe situation around the investigation is bad enough for the commandant of the marine Corps to change his schedule..go to Iraq to tell the Marines that ..killing innocent women and children is not what Marines do..obviously he believes it is bad…and JOE he probably would think your not fit to be a Marine with your attitude…
May 30th, 2006 at 8:03 pmSorry to inform you Not For Truth, but my God is NOT the god that the Mohammedens bow to. And in your spare time you should try reading the Good Book cause even God recognizes the value of killing off pagans and godless scum.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:03 pmHi Ryan!
Actually, I was leaning towards Joe McCarthy being ANVILHEAD.
ANVILHEAD used to link his name to http://zero/
Joe McCarthy has his linked to http://na/
And they are both dumb as rocks.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:04 pmOn my worst day I know more about the Bible then you do on your best dimwit.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:05 pmOh, I get it. Joe is one of the mantal cases that the recruiters are buzzing around.
Like I said in an earlier post. Some are not fit to be soldiers.
Just keep licking Bin Laden Joe, I’m sure Bubble boy has a medal for that.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:06 pmBut thanks for proving one thing.
That the conservatives who follow Bush are truly co-equal with the Nazis, in every way.
You are a Nazi pig, and you are the enemy to us all.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:06 pmYes, the old fashion old testament God. So, does that mean you prepare lambs as sacrifices also? Does that mean you have more than one wife, think the earth is flat, think selling your daughter into slavery is okay? I know more about the bible in my little finger than you know about any subject.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:08 pmJoe someday you too will be able to explain your comments to GOD about the cold blooded murder of helpless children by US trained and equiped milkitary units. But do continue to bloviate your hatered for everything not like you…Jesus would be Sooo disappointed…wait he’ll probably tell you that just before he stands by your side to speak to his father on your behalf
May 30th, 2006 at 8:09 pmTo Worfus-the-Warlock, I say: Never use the Bible as a means to attack others when you don’t accept the Bible anyway as God’s word. That makes you look ’slow-minded.’ By doing so, you cancel out your own warped opinion by citing from a book that you don’t believe in anyway.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:09 pmFirst put taxes on students and workers, then take out poor white, black and latin kids from their homes, let them believe we all live under great danger, tell them they are making “safer” their country and a better world, full of democracy (along with masses of hungry, ignorant people), give them guns, let them play with tanks, choppers and jets, take them to war…then you have a nice massacre.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:10 pmWell, folks. We have lost touch with this one. He went the way of “I know you are but what am I” Talk about slow minded.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:11 pmHey Joeee-
May 30th, 2006 at 8:12 pmYou have quite a bit in common with Muslims-you all believe in fairy tales…and you use your fairy tales to justify killing, nice very nice..
This Joe McCarthy person has got to be somebody just trying to push people’s buttons here, right? Please tell me people aren’t this ignorant.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:13 pmBTW, If WORFEUS gets to be a Warlock, I get to be Spudge_Boy the Sorceror. Okay?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:13 pmHey Ryan-how do you justify Leviticus (stoning to death for a variety of stupid reasons)
May 30th, 2006 at 8:14 pmThat is the definition of Internet troll. I am a PR person and International Marketing Manger for a global technology company and I have NEVER heard anybody like these trolls ever. And I have been to and talk to people in red states all the time. These trolls are either 1) retarded and don’t know it or 2) are paid to do this.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:16 pmSorry to inform you Not For Truth, but my God is NOT the god that the Mohammedens bow to. And in your spare time you should try reading the Good Book cause even God recognizes the value of killing off pagans and godless scum.
Comment by Joe McCarthy — May 30, 2006 @ 8:03 pm
Which pagans did Jesus kill again?
Your God is such a warrior God that he let the pagans nail him to a plank… really tough God you got there.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:16 pmThis is the end.
It’s all over.
Not with the Shock and Awe masturbation binge, but the the cries and wimpers of innocent children murdered by absolute corruption.
It’s over. Tie aYellow ribbon, takea souveiner photo with your cellphone, or stick a fork in it.
BTW Joe, God called, he does not want your soul back. He said something about the “skidmarks”
May 30th, 2006 at 8:16 pmRyan is not a Christian, so he doesn’t justify any of it.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:17 pmI actually think JM is I-Right-I too. I don’t care if he is trying to antagonize us. It does spice it up.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:17 pmOk, let’s have a quick Bible class: The Holy God of the Bible is NOT the god of the Koran no matter how duped your little minds have become. Those of you who ‘think’ the two are the same are probably beyond salvaging anyway so I won’t waste time arguing with imbeciles. If you ‘bright ones’ had ever read the Bible and the Koran it would be apparent that the characteristics of God and Allah were universes apart.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:17 pmTo Worfus-the-Warlock, I say: Never use the Bible as a means to attack others when you don’t accept the Bible anyway as God’s word. That makes you look ’slow-minded.’ By doing so, you cancel out your own warped opinion by citing from a book that you don’t believe in anyway.
Comment by Joe McCarthy — May 30, 2006 @ 8:09 pm
Like Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
5:4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5:5 “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
5:6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
5:7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
5:8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
5:9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
5:10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and say all kinds of evil things about you falsely on account of me. 5:12 Rejoice and be glad because your reward is great in heaven, for they persecuted the prophets before you in the same way.
or Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to an older generation, ‘Do not murder,’ and ‘whoever murders will be subjected to judgment.’ 5:22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.
And especially this one… Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘hate your enemy.’ 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, 5:45 so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they? 5:47 And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they? 5:48 So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Seems youy have a wee bit of learning to live up to the expectations of Jesus don’t ya Joey boy….
May 30th, 2006 at 8:19 pmI bet Joe Mc Carthy cant get an erection from years. He seems so uptight.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:19 pmHere’s the deal on the Bible folks, in my very humble opinion.
People forget that it is the word of god as told by man. As such, it contains mistakes and inconsistencies. Yes, I’m saying there are mistakes in the Bible, as well as misinterpretations. Why? Because man is flawed.
Faith is what’s required to believe that at its essence it is still the word of God. But it should not be taken literally.
The fact of the matter is that were it written these days, the errors and inconsistencies would probably be obvious to everyone. That wouldn’t necessarily stop Christianity from developing though.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:21 pmSo, we get your position there, but answer this Joe. Is the Christian and Jewish God the same?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:25 pmJoe.
You call me a sorcerer. In this thou speakest well. But do you think because you believe ye are in someway saved?
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:19
May 30th, 2006 at 8:25 pmJesus was and IS concerned about the personal salvation of sinners. Most of you sillies of course have rejected Him and mock Him and His word, and you will die in your sins and perish in eternal separation from Him. Most of you don’t want anything to do with Him and so He’s going to eventually put you in a place where you won’t have to be ‘bothered’ by Him. I like that idea.
Muslims essentially bow to Satan, and reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, and so they will have their place in Hades as well.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:26 pmBut if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors
James 2:9
May 30th, 2006 at 8:27 pmYeah yeah yeah, now
So, we get your position there, but answer this Joe. Is the Christian and Jewish God the same?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:27 pmInteresting that Jesus is and you aren’t. Seems to me that you aren’t following his teachings either.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:29 pm“For there is no respect of persons with God,”
Romans 2:11
May 30th, 2006 at 8:29 pmWow, this Joe really bought the whole package…Joe: why dont you chop some wood and make your own ark?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:31 pmJews and Christians worship the same God. Jews, however, deny that Jesus was the Messiah and the Son of God. The Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. In the OT, there are many verses where God is having a discusion and He refers to “We.” The Trinity is something of a mystery but then again–why should we mere mortals think that we can fully understand or explain God. He is the Potter, we are the pottery. Is the pottery greater than the Potter?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:31 pmBut we are forgetting about Haditha, boys. Besides, if there was a God, what was he doing while kids were having their heads blown?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:33 pmSpudge this clown isn’t even close to even grasping Jesus’ teachings.
His arguments are pharisical at best, and like Jesus told the Pharisees and Saducees, while the worried about tidbits while women and children starved in the streets,
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Matthew 23:23-24
May 30th, 2006 at 8:34 pmOk, let’s have a quick Bible class: The Holy God of the Bible is NOT the god of the Koran no matter how duped your little minds have become.
Comment by Joe McCarthy — May 30, 2006 @ 8:17 pm
Actually they are Mr. Bible scholar.
Abraham (the person who had the original covenant with God) had two kids Isaac and Ishmael. Isaac’s followers and descendants became the Jews (like Jesus… (same God as Christians)) and Ishmael’s followers became Islamist.
One Man… two sons… three religions… one God!
Maybe if you read the Bible you would already know this?
May 30th, 2006 at 8:35 pmOkay Joe. Now a little bible lesson for you. The Jews think that Jesus was a prophet. Just the way the Muslims think that Muhamed was a prophet.
So, why do you hate Muslims more than Jews?
Oh that’s right, because Jesus wasn’t a Christian. He was a Jew.
So, no real good reason other than the fact that you are uneduacated.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:36 pmJoe how about judge not lest ye be judged…seems you have done a bit of internet judging…like a certain senator doctor we know of…
May 30th, 2006 at 8:36 pmThe Bible says that most of mankind won’t make it into heaven. That means that many of you on this forum will perish. Only those who enter by the “narrow gate” will be saved while those of you who follow the “broad path” to “destruction” will perish in torment. That “narrow gate” is the acceptance and belief in Jesus Christ ALONE and the admission to Him that you are a filthy sinful man or woman in need of Him. “I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me” are His words. Sorry multiculturalists, but belief in Allah, Mohammed, Zeus, Buddha and other false teachers will only get you a one-way ticket to Hades.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:38 pmJesus was not just a Jew. He was a Rabbi. Hard for so called Christians like our buddy Tail-Gunner Joe, but he was as kosher as a Cod.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:39 pmLooks like Matthew had you all figured out JoeMcMurder.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones,
Matthew 23:27
May 30th, 2006 at 8:43 pmFrickin’ classic.
Why would god say in Genisis that he created man in his own image and we end up with what we have. Are we supposed to believe there is a giant human male shaped creature floating around in space? Heh.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:43 pmI stand with Murtha. No one is perfect and mistakes do happen. The truth never hurt anyone and will always sets us free. As difficult as it may be that once the truth is finally embraced, most of the insanity automatically falls to the wayside and soon, everything that’s orderly and just will start to fall in line, just as it’s supposed to.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:43 pmSee, let me explain something to about the man Jesus, whom you claim to worship.
He despised your kind. Not disliked, not disdained, but despised. Jesus taught you to harm no man, no woman, and especially no child.
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2
May 30th, 2006 at 8:49 pmYe serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:53 pmSorry scoffers, but if you die in your sins and failed to accept Jesus Christ as Savior, your destination will be eternal torment. No exceptions. “And those whose names were not found written in the Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire.” Remember that verse scoffers, cause it applies to many of you.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:54 pmProgs are THRILLED when the military is involved in unauthorized killing - but of course they have NEVER been in a position to know what young Marines go through. Unlike your daddys’ and grampas’ War, this enemy wears no uniform and blends in with the local population. Most Viet Nam vets NEVER witnessed the atrocities John Kerry so movingly re-counted to Congress (was that before or after he threw his medals or flushed his ribbons?) My Lai was investigated and adjudicated. There are bad apples in every orchard. Enter John Murtha. This “former” Marine has been on a “cut and run” mission since Somalia when he pressured President Clinton to abandon Somalis to the war lords responsible for starving the population. “Cut and Run Murtha” is consistent, to say the least.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:56 pmWhy quote verses Worpeous? You reject Jesus, so why quote His word? Trying to assuage your sinful conscience by attacking me won’t save you.
May 30th, 2006 at 8:57 pmJoe McMurder
You are so wrong. Just plain wrong. You don’t know the bible. Peter dealt with this very issue in the Acts of the Apostles.
“Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him“
ACTS 10:34-35
May 30th, 2006 at 9:01 pmmighty aphrodite,
Stop trying to change the topic of this thread. Your meat puppet friend Joe McCarthy already did.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:03 pmWho said I “reject” Jesus.
Just because I don’t take Jello to my neighbors on Sunday, or wear a funny hats with a long robe and a purple cumberbun, or toss my hands up in one of your idiotic meetings and speak in some form of incoherent babble, does that mean I have to reject him?
May 30th, 2006 at 9:04 pmMurtha doesn’t know half of what he thinks he knows.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:09 pmThe Soldiers took pictures, one of them on his cell phone camera. Why are you still here Seixon? Get your damn ass down to the recruiting office, NOW.
Uh, what? I don’t follow.
Seixon, you need to look at the pics and videos of whats happening.
Have they already been released? I haven’t seen them anywhere.
So you trust a military that’s already been proven to have tried to coverup this event to tell the truth? Well I guess gullibility and a lack of understanding of basic human nature sure explains why you believe the republican propaganda.
Did you just get home from the broad brush store? Some members of the military, particularly those involved, sought to cover up what they did. That’s what one would usually expect from someone who has just committed a crime. Yet you fail to see that the only reason Murth is on TV right now talking about this is precisely because the military has conducted an investigation of those soldiers who did this, and those who tried to cover it up.
So yes, I trust the military that is investigating the crimes of its own to tell the truth. Apparently you do too, since what you’re hearing is coming from that very investigation.
Hilarious.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:11 pmProgs are THRILLED when the military is involved in unauthorized killing -
Comment by notso-mighty aphroditeâ€
Yea, we were all just thrilled. The blood on the ceiling, I think that was the highlight for me.
Or maybe it was the little childs body rolled up in the carpet.
That was really thrilling too.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:12 pmMurtha doesn’t know half of what he thinks he knows.
Comment by David Drake — May 30, 2006 @ 9:09 pm
Since HE(murtha) sits and talks with Officers including the Commandant of the Marine Corps and the other JCS…he knows a hell of a lot more than you do……
May 30th, 2006 at 9:12 pmI just saw the video of the house that they took afterwords.
My God. They shot those little kids in the head. Point blank range. Blood spattered to the ceiling.
Goddamn them to hell.
Goddamn Bush to hell.
Goddamn us all.
Comment by worfeus — May 30, 2006 @ 7:39 pm
Hey, check out the Clinton-Reno fiasco of the Branch Davidians - Waco, Texas. Why, Clinton-Reno had their jackbooted thugs slaughter Americans on our own land! That outta make you Goddman Clinton to hell then right, using your same reasoning.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:13 pmIf you or the legion you bring with you had half a brain combined between the lot of you, you might actually be dangerous.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:14 pmSexion in case you truly in Norway Murtha has been looking into this for a few months now..the story has been on the net for at least three months I know of…and as a sitting US congressman who has years of expierence in the military as a Marine he might have reasons of the good of the country and Marine Corps on his mind…and before you say it..covering up crimes does no one any good but the criminals that commit them
May 30th, 2006 at 9:17 pmBrilliant, just Brilliant.
David Duke is it?
Listen up Einstein. While you might think its ok to drag something that happened in the last decade up to condone the wholesale slaughter of innocent men, women and Children, its not even comprable.
If you can’t tell the difference between going in to arrest some people, and having it escalate to where THEY lit the fires, and shooting a 3 year old girl in the head, then you’re just another of the Volksturm that needs taking care of.
Just more trash to take out.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:18 pmThis Joe McCarthy is like the other one. A loud-mouthed ignorant bigotted idiot.
Joe, why don’t you tune in to some other radio stations? The idiotic conservanazi propaganda you are full really shows just how friggin’ stupid you are.
Remember this, conservanazi republikans like Joe, are subtly racist and overtly anti-feminist, anti-freedom, pro-nazi, anti-democracy jokers.
If you hate Iraq and all other Muslim countries, why aren’t you over there fighting for your fearless leader, gwbu$h, the ANG DESERTER.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:19 pmI hope that these Marines aren’t demonized too much. This episode looks like a symptom, not the disease.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:22 pmHey, check out the Clinton-Reno fiasco of the Branch Davidians - Waco, Texas. Why, Clinton-Reno had their jackbooted thugs slaughter Americans on our own land! That outta make you Goddman Clinton to hell then right, using your same reasoning.
Comment by David Drake — May 30, 2006 @ 9:13 pm
That raid was initially planned during the Bush 43 watch and the raid occured On February 28, 1993, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) raided Mount Carmel, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Davidians. Janet Reno took office March 11, 1993, thus the situation was already out of control BEFORE she got there..hate to burst your bubble but it was not her idea nor clintons..either.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:25 pmSorry Warpeous but this verse,
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
is Jesus warning adults who attempt to prevent His Gospel from being taught to children.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:25 pmAnother good conservanazi republikan tactic is to blame the most powerful political family in the whole wide world, the Clintons, for bu$h’s incompetence.
Typical for the conservanazis:
Everything changed after 9/11.
Well, under the Clinton’s…………
gwbu$h abandoned Americans in New Orleans,…………. But the Clintons did it!
gwbu$h deserted the Air National Guard, …………. but Clinton didn’t.
Just listen when the bu$h bunch gets caught lying, or just showing their sincere desires to do something illegal and they will bring up the Clintons. Like that’s something to make up for the total incompetence of the bu$h regime.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:25 pmLet’s see here , they lied about what happened to Jessica Lynch , then we find out they lied about Tillman , now we’re supposed to believe they would’nt lie about this . Where there is a pile of dirt there usually something buried .
May 30th, 2006 at 9:26 pmOh, yeah. The conservanazi republikans are the only ones who can be the ‘real’ christians and the ‘real’ Americans. or amerikans. Sieg heil, bu$h!
Jesus Christ himself wouldn’t associate with any of the phony conservanazi christian hypocrites.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:29 pmThe problem is that none of the “republican/conservative” trolls that visit here are either republican or conservative. Nor are they Christians either. They are Neo-Cons. They only use religion and politics as a tool to control the masses of no-thinking morons out there. I swear, one day Bush’s vampire fangs are going to pop out on national TV and the US of A will wake up to the fact that the country is being bled dry by these leeches.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:33 pmSorry Warpeous but this verse,
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
is Jesus warning adults who attempt to prevent His Gospel from being taught to children.
Comment by Joe McMurder — May 30, 2006 @ 9:25 pm
Nice try. While that does seem to be the intent, I strongly suggest you invest in an english translation of the Masoretic Text, as well as a copy of the Codex Vaticanus with Scribes notes. (The Codex is a bit pricy, about 2600 bucks, give or take).
You will find the words, “who believe in me” were added as scribes notes, probably to encourage believers.
Jesus was just saying don’t f#$$k with the kids.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:36 pmreligious extremists refusing to exit a burning building as slaughtering people? You shouldn’t lecture others on using reasoning when you refuse to do so yourself.
Religious extremists? Why, do you even know what/who that is?
Comment by worfeus:
David Duke is it?
Wow, make fun of someone’s name when all else fails. Typical liberal attack when you cannot make any other lucid arugument. I’m not surprised.
Listen up Einstein. While you might think its ok to drag something that happened in the last decade up to condone the wholesale slaughter of innocent men, women and Children, its not even comprable.
??
If you can’t tell the difference between going in to arrest some people, and having it escalate to where THEY lit the fires, and shooting a 3 year old girl in the head, then you’re just another of the Volksturm that needs taking care of.
Just more trash to take out.
I don’t know what you mean by “comprable”, there, you Einstein spelling genius. If you mean comparable, of course they are comparable and to deny it is to show your ignorance.
You haven’t studied what happened to the Davidians much, have you - it shows in your writing.
If something a decade old doesn’t matter, then why do so many liberals bring up and compare Iraq to Vietnam? According to your (stupid) logic, we should forget about Vietnam. And Korea, WW2 etc etc because “they’re a decade old.”
Your ignorance speaks volumes, and all of it out of your arse.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:36 pmYeah, the neo-cons will pull a Maz Cleland for sure. Even the military has acknowledged that this massacre happened, though they covered it up for months. So why is Hannity blaming the media tonight for “alledging that U.S. soldiers are murderers”. THAT IS WHAT THE U.S MILITARY IS SAYING TOO. IT IS THE TRUTH. HELLOOOOO SEAN.
Why is everything a “liberal media conspiracy”?
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
The dirt on Henry Paulson:
Only on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
May 30th, 2006 at 9:36 pmMore U.S. troops in Iraq? What, they want to murder the whole country? And what about a withdrawl?: Give us your opinion.
Right now on SSA
Or if you’re Catholic, then, feed the children don’t f#$$k the Children.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:38 pmLV of R,
I almost forgot about Jessica Lynch, the only US Soldier injured in Iraq, successfully rescued by a team of 150k Special Forces Sniper Marine Rangers with the blessing of gwbu$h, Jesus Christ’s annointed leader of the new conservanazi US of A.
The bu$h regime lied about:
WMD’s
Al Qaeda in Iraq
Saddam Hussien’s support of Al Qaeda (a big fat conservanazi lie)
Jessica Lynch and her accident
Pat Tillman (probably killed by friendly fire)
SPYing on Americans (not terrorists, but political opponents)
Cheney shooting a hunting partner (he was drunk at the time)
Rescuing Americans in New Orleans (bu$h figured since most of them were poor and black no body cared about them, so he didn’t)
Jack Abramoff
With the bu$h buch, it goes on and on and on……………………….. then they blame the Clintons.
I hope the bu$h regime wakes up some day and figures out that the Clintons have not been in the White House for over 5 years. Americans realize that, but the true believer conservanazi republikans can’t understand that……….. well, the Clintons did……………………………….. whaterver
May 30th, 2006 at 9:38 pmHaditha x 100 = Fallujah
calculated and cowardly
May 30th, 2006 at 9:39 pmAs much as you’d like to turn this into a discussion on the Davidians, you’re not. So get over it troll.
And as for my spelling, sorry I don’t use a spell checker, but if your pathetic right wing mellon has nothing left but grammatical errors, then all I can say is, NEXT.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:41 pmSpudge Bush could kill a baby on national tv and the churchy right wingers would still support him just by saying it was the liberal media of the baby was Al Kieda . His flock is brainless zombies with pride and ego to big to give up to the fact that they sold their soul to the devil for corporate interest .
May 30th, 2006 at 9:43 pmDavid Duke said;
If something a decade old doesn’t matter, then why do so many liberals bring up and compare Iraq to Vietnam? According to your (stupid) logic, we should forget about Vietnam. And Korea, WW2 etc etc because “they’re a decade old.â€
Once more, if you can’t see the difference in comparing historical events with current events to AVOID THE SAME PITFALLS, and USING THEM TO CONDONE MURDER, then you are too far gone to save.
I suggest a ballbat to the side of your head might jar something loose however. You should try that.
Give that a try, and let me know how that works out for you.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:44 pmListen Up Hypocrites!
When Jesus is holding you to account for your rejection of Him, your Bible-quoting here will be used as evidence against you in His trial and conviction against you, and your own free will choice to reject His word and Him, which will result in your own choice to perish in eternal damnation and separation from Him.
Btw, I’m not a supporter in any way of GWBush, the neocons or any party neither GOP or Democrats. The Kingdom government I’m waiting for and believe in isn’t manmade or from the human dimension and ONLY One can bring it to fruition.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:46 pmYour ignorance speaks volumes, and all of it out of your arse.
Comment by David Drake — May 30, 2006 @ 9:36 pm
As does yopurs not knowing that the initialk raid took place before Janet reno even took office and the entire operation was begun..planned and equiped while Bush41 was president..just had to make a Clinton did it too comment on a thread about US Marines shooting little 2-3 year old children along with many others with out any justification…….no legal warrent no major gun battle by the adults around them either, ….can not accwept this war is spinning way out of control..like most everything Bush has ever touched.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:46 pmPlease explain HOW “Cut and Run” Murtha knows the “innocent civilians” from the collaborators? He acts like he knows the facts but is relying on supposition. My favourite “tidbit” of common sense was from the governor in Kandahar Afghanistan. After pin-point bombing killed Taliban/AlQueda members and some of their family and friends with whom they hiding, the governor gave this sage advice, “If you don’t want to be killed in raids and bombings DON’T hang out with the Taliban.” So simple - so true.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:47 pmJoe McMurdery said;
Listen Up Hypocrites!
When Jesus is holding you to account for your rejection of Him, your Bible-quoting here will be used as evidence against you in His trial and conviction against you, and your own free will choice to reject His word and Him, which will result in your own choice to perish in eternal damnation and separation from Him.
Yea?
Well guess we’ll see you at the Fish Fry, ay there slappy?
May 30th, 2006 at 9:49 pmThe Kingdom government I’m waiting for and believe in isn’t manmade or from the human dimension and ONLY One can bring it to fruition.
Comment by Joe McMurdery
Great. What can we do to help you get there?
May 30th, 2006 at 9:50 pm#135 - “Haditha x 100 = Fallujah calculated and cowardly”
Comment by Mr. Miller
*****My Dear Mr. Collaborator - Fallujah is lucky that their is a decency about the US military which allowed innocents to flee Fallujah. Many armies and commanders would have levelled that cess pool and sown salt - like the misunderstood barbarian Ghengis Khan.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:53 pmWell, Einstein, which is it? Does the study of the past help avoid pitfalls of the future or not? In one case you say Waco isn’t applicable to Haditha or Iraq and then you say “if you can’t see the difference in comparing historical events with current events to AVOID THE SAME PITFALLS, and USING THEM TO CONDONE MURDER.”
Could you split those hairs any closer?
One doesn’t need spell check to spell correctly. One needs to have paid attention if grade school and high school. Do you know what those are? Have you ever heard of them?
One needs a functioning brain to spell. Apparently you’ve hit yours one too many times with a “ballbat”. Oh wait, liberals are born with brain deficiency syndrome, aren’t they?
And no, I’m not trying to turn this into a Davidian discussion, but any objective or reasonable person would see the similarities. Anyone but you, that is.
Try and think beyond your own narrow, myopic view, if you can, and see the larger picture.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:54 pmDavid Drake or David Duke , they both sound alike , mabey Drake is a typo like comprble , that’s just like a neo -CON all they got are personal attacks , they just can’t stay on task.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:54 pmPlease explain HOW “Cut and Run†Murtha knows the “innocent civilians†from the collaborators?
Comment by NotSo-Mighty Aprhodite
Gee I don’t know, how about we start with 3 year old girls and 78 year old blind men in wheelchairs?
That works for me.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:55 pmLast post from jerky boy.
Let’s revisit his first post, in number 8.
“Iraq is indeed a lot like Vietnam since our troops usually can’t determine who’s a filthy Arab terrorist and who’s a harmless civilian (if there is such a thing over there). In a case like that, you sometimes have to shoot FIRST or watch more of your buddies die or lose arms, eyes, hands, legs, faces, etc. I’d rather see Arabs die instead of my boys in uniform get tagged, so what’s the beef about Haditha? Most of these Arabs hate us anyway, so who cares if some of them get popped? Most of you wimps who make comments here, never had the essential, big, round ones it takes to wear a military uniform, so your comments are neutered and meaningless.”
Yeah, we are the ones who need to be worried about doing God’s work.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:56 pmhow can someone who spews so much hate and intolerance gloat
May 30th, 2006 at 9:56 pmin the killing of INNOCENT children? And yet consider himself “saved”.
Joe would no doubt have been a good Nazi. Most of the Hitler followers
considered themselved “good” Christians. History does indeed repeat
itself. I wish Joe and his ilk get raptured allready!! No wonder I swore
off organized religion.
Blah blah blah
Comment by David Duke
May 30th, 2006 at 9:57 pmHey M A how do you even know what happened in Fullujah , there was a media gag , no reporters , come on get with it . Witnesses said there were civis laying dead everywhere .
May 30th, 2006 at 9:57 pmJoe would no doubt have been a good Nazi
Comment by daDonk
Good Nazi?
He’d make a GREAT Nazi.
May 30th, 2006 at 9:59 pmmighty is crazy as ever.
You can read in her post that she really wishes that the US military was as blood thirsty as the “misunderstood barbarian Ghengis Khan” She wants our military to kill anything that gets in our way, as Joe McCarthy points out in post number 8.
Yeah, you guys got Jesus’ back.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:00 pmI knew we were in trouble when I saw DoubleBarrel Dick on Meet the Press talking about how if we wanted to overcome evil we needed to adopt the tactics of the evildoers, and do business with “shady characters”.
I knew then we were screwed.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:04 pm[deleted by admin]
May 30th, 2006 at 10:06 pmMighty maybe instead of decrying everything a sitting US congressman knows from actually talking to those who have looked into this…maybe you should pull hard down on your ears so your head can pop out of your rectum…and check out
1why did the general in charge of the marine division RELEAVE the company and battalion commander of the unit from which several Marines are charged with these crimes.
2 Why would the Commandant of the marine Corps changer his schedule and go to Iraq to reafirm that marines do not shoot inocent civilians..(his words)
3 Why would the Marines either be in the Brig..or restricted to base…given that the military does not imprison service members with out good justification…
4 Why would the Marine higher ups told other unit members clean up the area ..BUT get photo’s unless they hjad an idea that something was wrong…
think about what else is happening around this that does not directally link toi Congressman Murtha and his position on the Armed services committee and maybe he is doing something the repug congress can’t seem to do…OVERSIGHT…yes that is constitutionaly supposed to be part of their job…but the repugs seem to have forgotten it in the K street era…
May 30th, 2006 at 10:06 pmGuys give Joe a break he’s still recovering from the rattlesnake venom from last sundays services . Actually I’m surprised he’s on here and not at a soldiers funeral protesting . These are afterall the same people who loved Mel Gibsons version of Jesus getting pummeled to a bloody pulp , but yet upset over the Davinci Code .
May 30th, 2006 at 10:07 pmFallujah is lucky that their is a decency about the US military which allowed innocents to flee Fallujah.
Comment by NotSo-mighty aphrodite — May 30, 2006 @ 9:53 pm
Hey NoSo, just thought I’d let you know that your pal, David Duke, or Snake, or something like that, thinks you’re an idiot.
See, you said “their”, when you should have said, “there”.
I realize its a simple typo, and you probably didn’t even notice it with the rapid fire pace in here, but since your boy Dimwit Snake, or whatever his name is, says you are if you make a typo, so I guess you’re in the dummypit too.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:09 pmClif,
You are asking these chicken hawks to think like a military person. We both know that none of them have any experience. They have know idea what a field grade article 15 is, let alone a field grade article 32 is, which is what this falls under.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:09 pmUnderstood Spudge ……….
but given the severity of this story I will call out facts that any military member would recognize…………
like an article 38 investigation must have already have happened, otherwise nobody would be in the brig yet…………….
and the commander of the marine division does not relieve a captain and Lt Colonel with out cause…
May 30th, 2006 at 10:14 pmClif said
3 Why would the Marines either be in the Brig..or restricted to base…given that the military does not imprison service members with out good justification…
Thats the one I wondered about. I saw that on the news this evening, and it didn’t seem like the Military to do that to them unless they were pretty darn sure.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:16 pmAnd the Marines did not call Major Colin Powell to brush this one under a rug by writing an “official investigation” which later turned out to be basically a white wash..like he did in Vietnam for the My Lai incident
May 30th, 2006 at 10:18 pmLook no matter what they do with these marines it won’t change the facts . America will never win over the hearts of the Iraqis now , that is where the war is truely lost . I’m not saying that our brave fighters aren’t under alot of stress but we can’t give them a pass on this one . Which brings us to the fact that we shouldn’t be there and never should have .
May 30th, 2006 at 10:19 pmWorfeus for anybody who has spent time in the service there are tell tales like the marines in the brig…the Commandant’s trip to Iraq which means Rummy is not happy and wants this cleaned up better than Abu Ghraib…and the hide it under a rock did not work….
May 30th, 2006 at 10:21 pmTry and think beyond your own narrow, myopic view, if you can, and see the larger picture.
Comment by David Drake — May 30, 2006 @ 9:54 pm
Good advise for somebody trying to pass off WACO as Clinton-Reno inspired…try living your own words….and not blaming everything on Bill Clinton or Claiming his lies about a BLOWJOB is anywhere near as bad as Bush Lying us into this mess……
May 30th, 2006 at 10:24 pmWell, Einstein, which is it? Does the study of the past help avoid pitfalls of the future or not? In one case you say Waco isn’t applicable to Haditha or Iraq and then you say “if you can’t see the difference in comparing historical events with current events to AVOID THE SAME PITFALLS, and USING THEM TO CONDONE MURDER.â€
Comment by David Flake
Ahh, I see. Thats a little difficult for you to understand I guess.
Here. Let me see if I can put it any simpler.
if you can’t see the difference in comparing historical events with current events to AVOID THE SAME PITFALLS, and USING THEM TO CONDONE MURDER, then you’re TOO FAR GONE.
Nope. Guess not.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:29 pmClif WORFEUS,
Maybe you guys didn’t see this
This is from May 26, 2006
Official: Iraq Civilian Deaths Unjustified
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ news/ story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1152&idq=/ ff/ story/ 0001%2F20060526%2F1815131130.htm&sc=1152
WORFEUS, I don’t know if you served, sorry. Clif, I know you did. You know as well as I do that the military doesn’t mess around when it comes to this stuff. If people are in the brig, there is plenty of evidence against them. There is no need for a report to find out.
Also, Murtha isn’t saying anything new here. He is only repeating what has been said. That is why the trolls are out in force. They know there is no blocking this one.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:29 pmSpudge check this one out…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13038563/
and for thr trolls ;
Two Marines were severely traumatized after following orders to photograph corpses of unarmed Iraqi civilians that members of their unit are suspected of killing, their families said Monday.
The parents of Lance Cpl. Andrew Wright, 20, and Lance Cpl. Roel Ryan Briones, 21, both members of a Marine unit based at Camp Pendleton, said their sons were sent into the western Iraqi city of Haditha to help remove the bodies of as many as two dozen men, women and children who were shot.
the story goes on to describe what they had to do and what they are dealing with now…
May 30th, 2006 at 10:35 pmNo Spudge. I didn’t serve. Not one day.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:40 pmWell, Einstein, which is it? Does the study of the past help avoid pitfalls of the future or not? In one case you say Waco isn’t applicable to Haditha or Iraq and then you say “if you can’t see the difference in comparing historical events with current events to AVOID THE SAME PITFALLS, and USING THEM TO CONDONE MURDER.â€
Could you split those hairs any closer?
Comment by David Dork — May 30, 2006 @ 9:54 pm
Splitting hairs? Hmmmm. Lets see.
AVOID. A difficult verb to be sure.
Here are some suggested meanings from Roget’s Thesaurus ( A big book you use to find words that are like other words:).
Evade. Circumvent (Perhaps too polysyllabic?) Get Around. Shun. Dodge. Duck. Side Step. Escape
CONDONE. Another tough one.
Some more suggested meanings.
Excuse. Forgive. Overlook. Disregard. Ignore. Close the eyes to.
Clear it up any?
May 30th, 2006 at 10:43 pmSee, the first one is something a person does to keep something bad from happening.
The second one, is something a person does AFTER something bad has happened.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:46 pmWorfeus he has not answered how waco can be janet Reno’s fault because the initial raid went down in Feb of 93 and she did not take office until March 93…bbbbuuuttt it is always zClinton’s fault is their disclaimer……and this time it is ever laughable what contortions of time they must make to make that one stick….
May 30th, 2006 at 10:46 pmWaco was bad, and I was mad. But there is little to compare to what happened in Iraq, and he was just trying to say, see, Clinton killed some people so whats the problem?
Hes a fool.
He is just trying to use it to change the subject off what is going on RIGHT now.
I don’t believe this is the ONLY incident, and I don’t think it should go on any longer.
As an American, I am horrified and disgusted. I am sick of these pigs.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:53 pmTo the Progs, here. (the others are seemingly worhtless of discussing) The real issue here is that no soldier invading a country has the right to call himself or be called a hero, no matter how much Hollywood is trying to put that into your head. There is no way one should be called a hero after throwing twice!!! nukes over civilians. There is nothing brave in firing a rifle or throwing grenades…anyone can do that, ask Centroamerican kids. What is brave is to defend your country from your own government, to be a hard worker, to be critic. So, if anyone serve in the “force”, I am sorry but that is nothing to brag about.
May 30th, 2006 at 10:58 pmWorfeus the Marines are investigating a seperate incident of a man killed April 26 at Hamandiyah, west of Baghdad.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:02 pm#8 - I’m sure many have already responded to the BS you posted but, I couldn’t let it go by without responding. First of all, I did wear the uniform of this nation proudly and with distinction and have served in a combat zone. Your ideas about not knowing who is friend or foe is, sadly, true to an extent but no one here has blamed the root of this tragedy on the troops (although they are culpable and should be held to account) but rather on their superiors. You ask, “What’s the big deal about Haditha?” and spout a half-truth regarding not being able to tell friend from foe. Where your argument completely leaves the bounds of reality is in the fact that it should not be all that difficult to determine whether a 3 year old child or a 70 year old man is friend or foe when no one in the house is armed. I would submit to you that I doubt that you ever wore the uniform because if you had, you would know that their is something called LOAC or the Law of Armed Conflict and all troops are trained to follow it. Under LOAC, one NEVER fires on an unarmed individual. There is something far more insidious happening in this war that very well may be at the root of this horrific act. Our military has, for some time now, been sending troops with known mental disorders back into the field with almost no treatment. Their solution? Pump these poor bastards full of anti-anxiety medications such as paxil or wellbutrin which can, in some cases, cause them to become suicidal or homicidal. As I mentioned before, these troops committed an atrocity and should be punished accordingly. They are not the only ones to blame however. Their alleged superiors in Washington are also to blame and they should also be held accountable. How Donald Rumsfeld still has a job is beyond me.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:12 pm#175. Nicely done. Also, continuing with my anti-militar point of view, i think there is a contradiction when there is a need to describe, imagine or jassociate the concept of security with a rumbling tank driven by a nice looking fellows with machine guns. In that sense, Switzerland, Iceland, Costa Rica, Finland and Canada must be very unsafe places!!! It is all bullshit so US citizens live in constant fear and cooperate to produce more conflicts so Lockheed Martin doesnt go to bankrupcy.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:22 pmJaun
While I can appreciate your sentiment, and in some respects it does have merit, when of course referring to those who have taken place in attrocities, but I can respect the courage under fire it would take to “do a job”.
Particularly if that Job is not shooting back. While shooting back is tough enough (I’ve heard some really high statistics about how many first time soldiers failed to fire their weapon, or just fired them in the air, in their first fire fight)all by itself, I can’t imagine trying to put fuel line back on a jeep, or assemble a field radio under fire. Thats why we call them heros.
I’ve done a little rock climbing in my day. Not the gyms, the real stuff. And I’ve been in a few life or death situations where my life was in my buddies hands, and a few the other way around. I remember thinking, gee, imagine having to do this with people shooting crap at you.
Anyway its not a hero worship, although the country is on that kick right now, but its more of a respect. It takes courage to be steady when all hells breaking loose. No matter what your job is.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:28 pm#147 - Warface demonstrates omnipotence:
“Gee I don’t know, how about we start with 3 year old girls and 78 year old blind men in wheelchairs?That works for me.”
******Well of course it “works for you” - you and your comrades are pre-dispossesed to assume the WORST about the military. An enemy who LOVED his family, friends, mosque, hospital and schools would not endanger them with his presence or caches of weapons. I HATE the fact innocents die in war but please provide ab example of ANY WAR in which there was NO loss of innocent life?? In the meantime, while you’re frustration grows with such a futile search, I will wait for the information to be investigated and evaluated - unlike progs, I respect the truth and will not become judge, jury and executioner.
#151 - “Witnesses said there were civis laying dead everywhere .”
Comment by the Lone Voice of Reason (??)
Dear Reason??? - As opposed to all the dead Fallujans in uniforms - Thank for concisely demonstrating stupidity. Your brevity IS appreciated!
#153 - “You can read in her post that she really wishes that the US military was as blood thirsty as the “misunderstood barbarian Ghengis Khan†SpongeBOB
*****Dear SPONGE - Don’t quit your day job - you’d never make it on “Psychic Friends” network.
#155 - [deleted by admin]
Time to run - - -
May 30th, 2006 at 11:29 pmTheir solution? Pump these poor bastards full of anti-anxiety medications such as paxil or wellbutrin which can, in some cases, cause them to become suicidal or homicidal.
Comment by green917 — May 30, 2006 @ 11:12 pm
You gotta be kidding? They’re giving Paxil to guys with guns?
This is the first I’ve heard this one.
I think this is a story.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:34 pmAn enemy who LOVED his family, friends, mosque, hospital and schools would not endanger them with his presence or caches of weapons
Comment by NotSo-mighty aphrodite — May 30, 2006 @ 11:29 pm
Really?
So your theory is that the Polish Partisans who fought off the invading Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto did not love their families?
How about the French Resistance? Did they love their families?
What about the Dutch Resistance that helped us throughout Holland? Did they not love their families either?
I’m Dutch. My dad is Dutch. We seem to like each other.
May 30th, 2006 at 11:39 pmMighty why the rush there were more posts that had content you should have addressed…but reading facts and then based on military expierence interperting those facts like why the US Marine corps has seen fit to lock some Marines in the Brig…it seems the Generals In both Iraq and Camp Pendleton seem to think that some marines should be held..IN A PRISON LIKE SETTING…wonder what they could have done that was SO BAD that the Marine Corps Brought them back from the warand locked them up…and the fact that the general in Iraq though he needed to relieve two Captains and a Lt Colonel..in a combat zone…what could be that bad?
May 30th, 2006 at 11:39 pm#177. I understand, Worfeus. But you are talking about friendship and working in life-threatening situations. There are a lot of situations where that attitude of real humanity can bloom, not just war. It is like saying that thanks to war, I am able to travel the world and meet some nice people or learn how to fix a jeep. How can one be a victim when I know I am invading a country, no matter the crap I am told about it is about a freedom op. People who enlists in the Army is responsible at the age they sign, so they are responsible for their actions. They just cant say, I needed the money, so I had to blow up some poor village. I k