Gore on Climate Skeptics: Some People Are Still Debating ‘Whether The Moon Landing Was Staged’
Gore on Climate Skeptics: Some People Are Still Debating ‘Whether The Moon Landing Was Staged’
This morning on CBS’s Early Show, host Harry Smith asked Al Gore about “more conservative elements of the press” who say “there is a debate going on” about whether global warming exisits. Gore responded that “in some quarters there’s still a debate over whether the moon landing was staged in a movie lot in Arizona” and debates about whether global warming exists were “in that category.” Watch it:
Gore is right. There is no debate among credible sceintists about whether global warming exists. Science magazine analyzed 928 peer-reviewed scientific papers on global warming published between 1993 and 2003. Not a single one challenged the scientific consensus the earth’s temperature is rising due to human activity.
Instead climate skeptics are forced to make arguments like this one by Holman W. Jenkins Jr., that appeared in today’s Wall Street Journal:
In a million years, the time it takes the earth to sneeze, the planet will likely be shorn of any conspicuous sign we were ever here, let alone careless with our CO2, dioxins, etc. Talk about an inconvenient truth.
In other words, we shouldn’t worry about the world we are leaving to our children or grandchildren. A million years from now none of this will matter.
Of course, this kind of argument can be used to justify any disfunctional policy that will harm people, including ignorning the realities of global warming.
Transcript:
SMITH Let’s talk about this movie because I saw it yesterday. I remember when you wrote the book, which is almost twenty years ago already, right?
GORE: Yeah, well fourteen years ago, and I have a new book out now, “An Inconvenient Truth,†same title as the movie, by Rodale. And I’ve been trying to tell this story for thirty years here. And the debate among the scientists is over, there is no more debate. We face a planetary emergency, and the phrase sounds shrill, but it is an accurate description of the climate crisis that we have to confront and solve.
SMITH: But if I look at more elements, the more conservative elements of the press, I would say there is a debate going on because, you know, they say that you’re just trying to create this kind of bogeyman to help slow down the economy and everything else. How do you respond to that?
GORE: Well, I guess in some quarters there’s still a debate over whether the moon landing was staged in a movie lot in Arizona or whether the earth is flat instead of round. And there may be some media reports that are constructed in a way that says, “On the one hand, on the other hand.†But really and truly, global warming is in that category – there is no more scientific debate among serious people who’ve looked at the evidence.
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3C From Disaster – the evidence
Our Science Editor Lawrence McGinty covered 71,000 miles on his three-month epic journey to chart the devastating effect of global warming on our planet.
Climate change is fast becoming one of the most pressing issues facing the world and ITV News decided to investigate.
We called our series 3C From Disaster – another three degrees on Earth’s temperature, and sea levels will rise, and whole communities will be washed away and it could also affect us here in the UK.
Watch Lawrence’s location reports here and see the evidence for yourself.
EVIDENCE LINK
May 31st, 2006 at 3:28 pmI love the comeback! It’s priceless! Touche’ Al!
One of the kids in one of my classes told me that the moon landing was staged. He used the textbook pitcures to demostrate. All of his ‘evidence’ was pure ignorance. He pointed to the American flag they’d set up and said “The moon has no atmosphere, so there’s no wind because space is a vacuum. How cabn there be waves?” I said “The moon has a minimal gravitational pull. Those ain’t waves child – they are wrinkles.”
May 31st, 2006 at 3:30 pmI figured it was only being denied by wacko’s too. Then today I lurked over at Redstate. Big mistake for me. Those morons are decrying how warming the planet will be GOOD for us.
If you haven’t been booted from redstain yet, now’s the time to sign up and tell them what you think. of course, you should make it good, as you won’t get another shot. You’ll be in “The Pile” like many of us.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:31 pmThose morons are decrying how warming the planet will be GOOD for us.
Comment by kindness — May 31, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
Good how? I just have to hear this…
May 31st, 2006 at 3:35 pmAh yes, global warming is good for us. They call it extinction. We call it life.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:36 pmThe interviewer on the CBS Early Show was Harry Smith. Gibson is on GMA on ABC.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:36 pmEven by his own logic, Jenkins completely contradicted the argument he had made in favour of Bush’s manned mission to Mars.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:37 pmGo get ‘em Al.
I don’t know if you’re right, kind of right, kind of wrong, or whatever. But you are trying to have an intelligent conversation and the “authorities” on the right are responding like a bunch of chimps.
It’s a shame Gore’s facing the swiftboat treatment, but this time I think people are turning toward a calm voice of reason and against the fools that compare him to Hitler. I can only assume these Neanderthals will give Bush’s new Treasury Secretary the same treatment, because he’s apparently on-board with Koyoto.
We dig out an old one in honor of Gore and those who dishonor him:
Study: Euthanizing Right-wing Pundits would Solve Global Warming
May 31st, 2006 at 3:38 pmPakistan, India and china all have nuclear weapons when their country gets too hot to survive they will adopt American attitude , Our countries are dying lets blow the world up
and im so sick of america I wish the world too end – idiot nation
May 31st, 2006 at 3:39 pmWith the exception of Virginia to Texas, the right won’t miss the coasts much. The west coast is not in favor, nor is the northeast coast.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:39 pmI hope to shit humans (or our evolved offspring) are still here in a million years. After all, how many millions of years have crocodiles been here?
Oh wait … the rapture. I keep forgetting about the damn rapture.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:44 pmSome people (mostly ‘Republicants’) still believe in BIGFOOT too.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:46 pmThe reason it’ll be a sneeze to the Earth in a million years is because we’ll all be dead and gone in the next 100…
May 31st, 2006 at 3:51 pmWhat a great response! Needs to be a Deomcrat talking point! Go, Al, go!
May 31st, 2006 at 3:51 pmThat’s not Charles Gibson. Get it right. gibson is abc, this is CBS. Please don’t turn into Fox News and report the incorrect information.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:56 pmIf you believe in bush & company, won’t you believe fairy tales?
May 31st, 2006 at 3:57 pmI linked to the comment page in my post above. So just click it and be amazed.
Please, if you’ve just eaten, wait till you go over there.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:57 pmThe moonlanding WAS staged. There is leaked NASA footage to prove it.
A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Moon
I am not debating global warming. I AM debating the moon landing.
May 31st, 2006 at 3:59 pmWho are you going to believe? Al Gore or the Oil Companies?
50 Ways To Dump The Dubya
May 31st, 2006 at 4:01 pmOh wait … the rapture. I keep forgetting about the damn rapture.
Comment by DanF
The rapture would get rid of the right wing, neochristian nutbags, leaving the rest of us…..
May 31st, 2006 at 4:06 pmhmmm…..
please God, hurry up with the rapture, sooner it happens, the more sane the wourld would be. Take them away, please!!
Sad to say, but it looks like Al’s really out. I hope not.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:06 pmIf you read your bible everday and pray more than the average bear, maybe the earth will begin to cool. It’s worth a try. Kind of like doing a rain dance.
Religion will trump the science. kewl.
Al Gore should pray too. You just never know.
Lord, cool the earth. Please. Amen
Bill O’Reilly would do a ‘no-spin ozone’ take on it all.
BP would buy lots of commercial time for that program.
Global warming is receiving lots of play these days. It’s making money for the big money boys no matter how it goes.
It can get more foolish and more insane. You won’t think it will, but it will.
Bow your heads and pray. George Bush would.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:07 pmLet me know how bush has affected your life.
CLICK HERE
May 31st, 2006 at 4:08 pmAs for the science of all this, to be fair, if the globe is warming, wouldn’t there presumably be benefits, like fewer traffic accidents caused by ice? Dunno. More lush plant — and vegetable and crop — growth? Will no one adapt? Yet all you read and hear about are stories like this, or rising sea levels or baby polar bears pitching off of ice floes. In other words, if you’ve not been paying attention to the global warming story, if you’ve not yet bought into the hysteria, how ’bout a little poison ivy in your shorts, huh? Maybe that’ll grab your attention!
Okay, this is enough. I think the 15 year old ‘Moon Hoax’ kid from my class is running a website for crazy consrvatives… Who but teenagers say “I dunno”?
I’ve heard of mass delusion before – but wow – it’s really archaic and so third century BCE… Sheesh. And you guys wonder why I think some humans are evolving appendix-like brains…
May 31st, 2006 at 4:08 pmWell at least Gore criticises the Dubya Dunce Decider! Hillary Clinton calls George charming and her hubby Bill is busy kissing Bush Senior’s ass! Bravo to Al for being anti Bush Regime!
May 31st, 2006 at 4:11 pmThe dissection of Jenkins’ talking point is worth repeating – “A million years from now who’ll know the difference?” could be used to justify just about any horrendous act you can think of. The important thing is that we need to have the foresight to do what is necessary to sustain life on Earth for the foreseeable future… unless we sincerely do not care what happens to our kids, their kids, etc…
May 31st, 2006 at 4:11 pmThe moonlanding WAS staged. There is leaked NASA footage to prove it.
Comment by NewNameAcquired — May 31, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
Oh please don’t make me debate another conspiracy theory…
We went to the moon. We’ve been in space. We’ve sent all kinds of crafts toother places in the solar system. We will be going to Mars next (to colonize it no doubt). There’s no hoax. The hoax ‘evidence’ is faulty, and relies on people not understanding basic science…
May 31st, 2006 at 4:12 pmI hereby throw my support behind the Gore/Kerry or Gore/Clinton ticket. Please oh PLEASE let him run!
May 31st, 2006 at 4:12 pm#18 – Gag-me with your overabundance of ignorance.
Leaked NASA footage? Come on! This is the same amatuer photo examining bullshit hype used by that dumbass who claims no planes hit ANYTHING on 9/11.
Pull-eeeze, stop smoking that shit, clear your head, and, yes, understand how easily we DID make it too the Moon with the FULL backing of our Government in pursuit of truly NOBLE causes. It’s something called Math and Science, which our educators seem obviously, painfully unable to teach properly.
Quit being side-tracked by such foolish attempts to distract as many “loonies” as possible!
Now, go find BIGFOOT, ya big dummy!
May 31st, 2006 at 4:14 pmFunny thing is, Mr. Jenkins probably believes in creation he’s just tossing the “million years” thing out there to seem LESS crazy than he already is.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:16 pmBow your heads and pray. George Bush would.
Comment by Ron — May 31, 2006 @ 4:07 pm
No thanks
May 31st, 2006 at 4:18 pmIn a million years George Bush’s frozen cadaver will still be president and we’ll be turning the corner in Iraq.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:22 pmIt’s something called Math and Science, which our educators seem obviously, painfully unable to teach properly.
Comment by DieNowForPeace — May 31, 2006 @ 4:14 pm
Ever hear the saying that you can lead a horse to water…?
I can’t teach kids who don’t want to learn Science because their Sunday school tells them that Science is wrong, because God created the universe. Or kids who can’t stay awake in class. Or kids whose parents don’t care.
Only about 25% of my students (of 120) last year cared anything about learning anything related to Science. Those are probably the kids of most people in here.
Want kids to learn science – change the culture.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:23 pm[...] GORE: Well, I guess in some quarters there’s still a debate over whether the moon landing was staged in a movie lot in Arizona or whether the earth is flat instead of round. And there may be some media reports that are constructed in a way that says, “On the one hand, on the other hand.†But really and truly, global warming is in that category – there is no more scientific debate among serious people who’ve looked at the evidence.* [...]
May 31st, 2006 at 4:24 pmThe moonlanding WAS staged. There is leaked NASA footage to prove it.
Comment by NewNameAcquired
Yeah, right, and I bet you believe the earth is flat too. Most the idiots calling the moon landings a hoax also try to put out “evidence” that the world is flat too.
Oh please don’t make me debate another conspiracy theory…
— unbelievable
hehehehe. I feel the same way.
I actually met a “flat earther” once. Needless to say he was a complete whack job, totally nuts. He believed the moon landing was a hoax too.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:25 pmIn a few years, the time it takes Americans to pay attention, the US will likely be bereft of any conspicuous sign Holman W. Jenkins Jr. was ever here, let alone careless with his grovelling hackery, irrelevancies, etc. Talk about a meaningless man.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:31 pm.
The moonlanding WAS staged. There is leaked NASA footage to prove it.
A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Moon
I am not debating global warming. I AM debating the moon landing.
Comment by NewNameAcquired — May 31, 2006 @ 3:59 pm
LOL, are you kidding me?
I mean are you freakin kidding me?
Look Skully, I’m sure you feel strongly about this, and I hate to disallusion you, but there was nothing staged about the moon landing. What you fail to realize is countries all over the world monitored this, and observatories all over the world were aware of the landing. Powerful telescopes allowed people on earth to see the ship orbiting the moon.
I doubt we went all the way there just to stage it.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:33 pmThose ain’t waves child – they are wrinkles.â€
Comment by unbelievable
I’m using that one — when I get wrinkles.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:34 pmWe will leave more than just bikini only weather to our children. The damage the President has done to the sheer universal understanding of the rule of law and the respect for previously agreed upon terms of civilized negotiations, let alone signed treaties,is shamefull. When will we call OPEC what it really is, a colusionary price fixing, entity.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:34 pm#33
I didn’t mean to slam teachers, but rather ‘the culture’ which equates financial well-being and ‘fame’ with success, and outsources anything technical and scientific. I read in Wired how much influence litigation has had on the chemical and science educational industries. What a shame.
Unfortunately, as always, it’s the parents to blame. After all, we are the single most infuential persons in their lives!
In my house, that’s all my kids hear about is science and learning. When we watch TV, it’s usually National Geographic or Discovery, and NOT the kiddie versions.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:37 pmI know a couple people around here who really believe the moon landing was faked. They seem so normal until they start speaking. They truly believe what they are saying, and there is nothing you can say to them that will shake that belief. Amazing…
May 31st, 2006 at 4:38 pmhttp://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20060531/447d14c0_3421_1334520060531-1647284791
Interesting article I came across……
May 31st, 2006 at 4:38 pmhehehehe. I feel the same way.
You laugh at my pain – but I still have some fringe folks stalking me for that one ; ).
I actually met a “flat earther†once. Needless to say he was a complete whack job, totally nuts. He believed the moon landing was a hoax too.
Comment by Wayne — May 31, 2006 @ 4:25 pm
How can anyone still think the Earth is flat? I mean, some bored Greeks, a few thousand years ago, were able to prove it was round. As the name says – unbelieveble (it’s there so I don’t have to keep repeating myself :)
Did the guy also live in a cardboard box – by choice?
May 31st, 2006 at 4:39 pmI doubt we went all the way there just to stage it.
Comment by WORFEUS — May 31, 2006 @ 4:33 pm
Don’t you wish that were true of Iraq? That is was a big hoax?
May 31st, 2006 at 4:41 pmUnbelievable,
My 9 year old son loves science, he came to this conclusion on his own. I encourage it, but he has had the natural interest already. He was Einstein for halloween last year. He wants to be a scientist. He will be a minority in his math and science classes, he’s a toe-head.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:44 pmAh yes, global warming is good for us. They call it “extinction.” We call it more room for growth! They call it “poison”, we call it “heavy air”. They call it “devastation,” we call it “land reclamation”. They call it “death”, we call it “heaven.”
May 31st, 2006 at 4:47 pmI’m using that one — when I get wrinkles.
Comment by Zookeeper — May 31, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
Liberal women don’t get wrinkles… (and I’m not open for debate from anyone :)
May 31st, 2006 at 4:47 pm#47 – We also don’t get gray hair or wobbly arms.
May 31st, 2006 at 4:51 pmIn my house, that’s all my kids hear about is science and learning. When we watch TV, it’s usually National Geographic or Discovery, and NOT the kiddie versions.
Comment by DieNowForPeace — May 31, 2006 @ 4:37 pm
Oh good, the last thing we teachers need is for liberals to start believing the conservative nonsense that it is our faults that their kid isn’t a rocket scientist.
Your kids are the ones who make teaching worth while. Thanks
May 31st, 2006 at 4:52 pmHe was Einstein for halloween last year.
Comment by For Truth — May 31, 2006 @ 4:44 pm
That’s so cute!
May 31st, 2006 at 4:54 pmWe also don’t get gray hair or wobbly arms.
Comment by Zookeeper — May 31, 2006 @ 4:51 pm
Works for me!
May 31st, 2006 at 4:56 pmhey, if I take all 3 of those things away (wrinkles, gray hair, wobbly arms)
I’m A Babe! Woo Hoo!
May 31st, 2006 at 4:59 pm“You laugh at my pain”
I am a computer tech, have been for 18 years. I still get people that will call and ask how to make the foot pedal work =)
———-
Did the guy also live in a cardboard box – by choice?
Comment by unbelievable
His main proof was that “the bible says the world is flat”. Starting in genesis, when it described the world.
He was a mechanic. Good thing he didn’t believe my alternator was flat i guess.
do a google on Flat Earth, or check Wikipedia. It is amazing how many really stupid people there are.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:00 pmGrover Norquist says we should let market forces decide if we are to survive as a species.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:05 pmThe teacher is the last one I would blame for lack of skills in our children. I have worked with kids and families for 12 years, I go into public schools to provide professional services. The biggest problem is apathy in the home, lack of importance and priority from society (which also includes the lack of priortity and importance from state and federal legislatures). Here in AZ, we had a recent statistic from the census beauro (spelling?) which stated AZ was 2nd to last in funding per capita for public schools. Guess what our Republican state senate majority leader said about the statistic? You guessed it!, he didn’t believe it. And my the way, the AZ senate majority leader’s 18 year old son just pleaded guilty to shoving broom handles up kids asses while he was working at a youth boot camp.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:08 pmI hate to belabor the obvious, but the moonlandings actually happened. 6 times. And the ignorant people who deny this are casually insulting the 400,000+ who made it happen. Including a number who died in pursuit of that objective.
I admit it is an amazing accomplishment. But, hey, the Mets won the world series that year, too…
May 31st, 2006 at 5:12 pmhey, if I take all 3 of those things away (wrinkles, gray hair, wobbly arms)
I’m A Babe! Woo Hoo!
Comment by trueblue
oh, Yeah!! Liberal Women are soooo HOT!!! =)
May 31st, 2006 at 5:14 pmGrover Norquist says we should let market forces decide if we are to survive as a species.
Comment by redneck hick
WOW, who would have thought an Economist would have a financially centered point of view?
However, seeing how unlikely we are to turn the tide, he’s not really out on a limb, is he?
May 31st, 2006 at 5:15 pmdo a google on Flat Earth, or check Wikipedia. It is amazing how many really stupid people there are.
Comment by Wayne — May 31, 2006 @ 5:00 pm
And of course, those are the ones who are breeding….
How do I make the foot [edal work? (just kidding : )
May 31st, 2006 at 5:15 pm18 year old son just pleaded guilty to shoving broom handles up kids asses while he was working at a youth boot camp.
Comment by For Truth — May 31, 2006 @ 5:08 pm
I’m sure he said “not my kid…” They are always the first ones whose kids misbehave…
May 31st, 2006 at 5:18 pmoh, Yeah!! Liberal Women are soooo HOT!!! =)
Comment by Wayne
I was told I was hot just the other day, and I wasn’t even on fire — at the time.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:21 pmJust went over to RedState. What a trip. Folks over there are really delusional.
I think the upshot is that the tides on GW are (slowly) turning toward the reality. It’s difficult to argue against the overwhelming scientific consensus for too long. I suspect the RedState folks also didn’t believe smoking leads to cancer for a long time. Wonder how that plays with them now?
May 31st, 2006 at 5:26 pm#62 – Complimentary brillo pads for the eyes in the mail today for DrSinker.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:32 pmJust went over to RedState. What a trip. Folks over there are really delusional.
Comment by DrSinker
Gave you a really icky feeling and a desire to shower, did it not?
May 31st, 2006 at 5:44 pm#64 – Wayne,
Actually it’s pretty revealing. I’m invested in this issue as a scientist with close colleagues who work in the climate community. So I understand the frustration they experience.
Imagine being a respected scientist and being called to testify before Congress, and ending up sitting next to another “respected scientist” who happens to think the earth is flat. That’s nearly what happened to Michael Mann (whose hockeystick work has been “debunked” by two hacks).
The folks over at RedState have jumped all over this kind of stuff, but seem not to look at any of the credentials of the people they’re citing. The issue is that there are always going to be a few “professors” in other areas who have extreme views. Just because someone is at MIT doesn’t mean they’re the authority. It’s not easy to convince the general public of this – people tend to believe what they want and are able to find plenty of “evidence” to back up their beliefs.
The only consolation we have is that the general public, on average, seem to be coming around on this issue, albeit slowly. Gore is doing great work here. Redstate is the fringe, drinking the cool-aid, and even there you see enough dissent at the moment.
May 31st, 2006 at 5:53 pmTwo More Scores for Gore…
First, there’s a movement afoot, at the state level, to commit the states’ electoral votes to the national popular vote winner, effectively doing an end run around the current stupid swing-state-heavy system. That would have given Gore the win if en…
May 31st, 2006 at 6:19 pmI dunno, I’m still not entirely convinced about this whole moon landing round earth global warming thing. Can you go over everything one more time for my benefit?
Also, I heard Iraq is safer than D.C., but still more dangerous than Boise. Can someone debunk that a few thousand more times? You’re not yet quite the right shade of blue in the face.
May 31st, 2006 at 6:19 pmIf it makes you feel any better, redstate is run by a 24 year old plaigarist, and the regulars are none too smart either.
May 31st, 2006 at 6:21 pmYour conservative friends and neighbors BEG progs to put Al Gore at the top of the ticket in ‘08. Fine VP candidates might be: “Ol’ Cut and Run” Murtha, or “Kewpie” Kuchinich. (Hillary would never go for the VP after having been Als’ co-boss for eight years – she’ll have to wait for ‘16….)
May 31st, 2006 at 6:29 pmI a million years, the Holocaust will be just another bloodbath by a power-hungry maniac seeking power.
What about those of worried about the next 50 years?
May 31st, 2006 at 6:51 pmYour conservative friends and neighbors BEG progs to put Al Gore at the top of the ticket in ‘08.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — May 31, 2006 @ 6:29 pm
What so he can win the vote again…and with out Jeb abd katherine(I’m reallyreally insane) Harris in Florida and Taft and Blackwell in Ohio..the results probably will not be to your liking..
In other words be careful of what you wish for…you just might get it and a whole lot more like..President Al Gore..44th president of the US
May 31st, 2006 at 8:01 pmPresident Al Gore..44th president of the US
Comment by Clif
Ahhhhh, doesn’t that sound nice?
May 31st, 2006 at 9:23 pmIn a millions years our great (to the tenth power) grandkids will still be paying back the interest on the Bush accrued debt.
May 31st, 2006 at 9:26 pmTrueblue that is one thing that scares the tar out of the reichwingnuts..no matter how much they bloviate and spew spittle
May 31st, 2006 at 9:29 pmTake a look at the planet Venus to see the future of Earth. Venus is an example of the Greenhouse effect gone mad.
I find it amusing that the debate about Greenhouse/Global warning exists. According to the best information I’ve read the Greenhouse effect is currently out of control and unstoppablel. A runaway train.
Many here seem to think Greenhouse/Global Warming either exists or doesn’t. Black and white thinking. The sad truth is if it exists at all, and reaches a critical mass (which I believe it has) then it can’t be stopped. It will run its course despite all our bickering.
May 31st, 2006 at 9:41 pmI would vote for Gore in a New York minute.
Right now what the Dems need to do is stop seeking their own fortunes, Howard Dean needs to rally everyone around a Gore\Feingold ticket, and lets get moving forward.
If the Dems would show some cohesion, and some courage, they’d see that Gore is the natural choice. If the Dems come out now, strong with Al Gore, and Feingold on the VP ticket, we’d have a smooth victory in 08. Gore was after all VP of the United State for 2 terms, which makes him the most qualified of all possible candidates.
Besides, Al Gore is a smart man.
Its time for a smart President.
May 31st, 2006 at 9:54 pm#77 Worf, “If the Dems would show some cohesion” that’s where your thesis falls down. From Hayden to Alito and every point in between, the Democrats have consistently failed to mount any kind of cohesive opposition to the Bush Administration agenda. It took a concerted effort to get anyone to notice Feingold at all. There’s no spine to build any cohesion around. This will only change in the streets and I don’t see that happening either.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:04 pmShow the country the left is united under one man. Show the country the dems have full confidence in their candidate.
The country is in desperate times, and we need the smartest, most experienced person we can find to find and implement solutions that will lead us out of this cluseterf$k the morons have put us in.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:05 pmThe Earth can sneeze?!? Wow. That really boggles the mind! Where did that guy get that information? Is it like a global ‘jerking’ sensation? Some sort of an ‘allergic’ reaction? Or is it more like a ‘tickle’? Is anything ’sprayed’ out into the atmosphere? Gosh, I am just SO intrigued by this!! I hope this learned man will tell us more about this, very soon!! I am all agog! Wow.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:07 pmI hear you Terry, but talk like that won’t move us any closer to the goal. In fact, talk like that becomes self fulling. People like to repeat talking points they hear. And that one we hear all the time.
Ok. The Dems have been spineless. And it would be extraordinary if they were able now to rally behind a single candidate, and ride that wave all the way to a White House win.
But these are extraordinary times, and we need to push harder now than we ever have. We need to either hold the Dems feet to the fire, or convince Gore to run on an independent ticket and abandon the Dems alltogether.
Al Gore will move mountains.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:10 pmAl Gore has two major things that Bush does not.
1. Actual experience in a combat zone.
2. A big fat brain
I’m telling you, Gore is our single best hope. He knows the White House. He knows the military. He knows science. He knows advanced mathematics. He knows the Law. He knows business. He knows ecology.
Bush knows how to pull weeds.
We need the man who knows more stuff right now. The man who doesn’t know any of that highbrow junk didn’t work out too good.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:15 pmHelp us Obi-Gore Kenobi.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:16 pm“It took a concerted effort to get anyone to notice Feingold at all.” – I’m referring to the power of the blogs to get John Kerry off his duff. My friend over in the Dems party up the road here says that it takes angry voters calling their reps and writing letters. And if their reps don’t respond (as I believe Sharon Cox has found in what’s her name Washington Senator) then turf the useless bastards out (yes that means you Weeping Joe Lieberman). and if that doesn’t work, see you in the streets.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:17 pmOr was that for blocking Alito, can’t remember.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:22 pmJoe Lieberman is why Gore lost the first race.
Lieberman made Gore look weak.
What Gore needs is another Gore. Someone smart, intellectual, and who has a commanding precense. Gore\Feingold is the dreamteam.
I’m praying for it.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:23 pmTerry the mess the re0pugs find them selves in is not gonna get much better this summer…Sarifan’s trial will go on with a werdict..the story about inocent people getting killed will bring the mess of Iraq back when the repugs tried the immigration diversion…the economy is not good for many with higher gas..food and utilities…the repugs will have more people underinvestigation.
It ain’t gonna be pretty but the summer and fall will have more problems for the culture of corruption party than KKKarl can spin…and he might even be one of them.
May 31st, 2006 at 10:30 pmGuys, I respect Al Gore, and think he would have been a good President. I “believe” in global warming (it sounds as silly as “believing” in math). Lord knows I hate dumbass conservative loudmouths spinning this issue and spouting bullshit all day.
However, do we really think that this overdose of press about this issue is going to cause a groundswell for Gore in 2008 or, more pressing, the Dems in 2006? To me, it gives the GOP a tool to say to mainstream Americans, most of whom are dispassionate at best about the issue, and say “see, those pinkos will cause gas prices to go up, and are looking at stupid leftie tree hugger issues while WE are trying to defend America against terrorism and cut your taxes!”
We need to stay focused on the culture of corruption and the abysmal fiscal policy of this administration if we are to make headway.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:00 pm#86 So Clif, if you were a Bushevik, how would you spend your summer? I throw out a few data points here:
1. Democrats lead by 16 points in the polls, say, despite a performance in opposition as lively as my granny, who’s been dead for 25 years
2. Everything they have been strong on and the country thinks is still important: economy, security, Iraq is in the toilet (grant you the economy is still hiding what’s about to happen – but gold, interest rates, defaults, inlflation, deficit, mcjobs)
3. Everything Frist thinks he can win on: flag-burning, gays, abortion are not getting anyone going but the christo-fascist Falwell right
4. The Help America Vote Act has those Diebold boxes all over the place – and they still don’t work
5. The Iran crisis goes on
6. The Iraqi civil war goes on
How would you spend your summer if you were a Bushevik? A PNAC cowboy? A Carlyle Group suit?
May 31st, 2006 at 11:05 pmSorry point 2. is everything THEY (the Busheviks) have been strong on…
May 31st, 2006 at 11:06 pmFinding a country to invade they can move to in November….
May 31st, 2006 at 11:09 pm#87, Al Gore’s story is easily turned to a national security issue – look at the money going from your pocket by way of the gas station and finding its way to Iran, to Russia, to Saudi Arabia. All of those countries which right now can flip Uncle Sam the bird because oil is at $70. The addict is trying to threaten the pusher? Every SUV in every driveway is both a WMD and a source of funding to terrorists… not exactly what Joe Sixpack wants to hear, but high oil prices and no progress around the world with the Busheviks….maybe that message will stick
May 31st, 2006 at 11:12 pmAnd I think its also important to point out that its not “Al Gores” story.
Its the conclusion of the entire scientific community not working for or sympathetic to the big oil companies.
Mr Gore is merely a smart and wise man who is heralding the story. He is using his power and prestige as the former Vice President of the United States, (and hopefully a future President of the United States), and using it to try and save our great planet.
He is an example to us all.
May 31st, 2006 at 11:58 pmWell, I concede Dean’s point back in #87 – at some point, somebody has to run for something to change something. As Bill Maher says: “The Democrats need to find someone dumb enough to take Kansas” (I think that’s what he said). And as yet, this one is not high enough on Joe Sixpack’s list. Granted, Gore has managed to get his flag planted on this issue, but it could just as easily come from a energy crisis/post peak oil crisis point of view and as a one of national security as I pointed out above in #91.
Could Gore be the one to combine those messages aorund what he is saying and successfully make that a platform to run on, yes he could. Will he, don’t know. Could anyone else do it? Hillary? No way Pedro. Will Joe Sixpack give up his truck? Not holding my breath.
The issue that turns out to be the one that Gore has long held cherished, I think, turns out to to have as many faces as you can imagine – climate change is and will be the issue of our generation and the next generations. Our civilization is not prepared for that kind of change in its current form. Everything else will look like a bar fight on the Titanic by comparison.
In the words of Hugh Cornwell: “Whatever happened to all of the heroes, all the Shakespearos…”
Nice to see you back posting Worf… nighty night.
June 1st, 2006 at 12:29 amTP Judd accepts the 2001 IPCC report? Exxon contributed and helped author a few of the chapters. According to Judds logic that makes the study unworthy. If Exxon is involved it’s gotta be fake science. He would know, since lawyers act like they know everything.
And you know why you don’t hear about scientist who don’t agree with Al Gore’s exaggerated effects of global warming? Because he suppresses there views. Go ask Ted Koppel how Gore tried to use him and the media to suppress opposing views. What a fascist dick.
June 1st, 2006 at 12:32 amTP Judd accepts the 2001 IPCC report? Exxon contributed and helped author a few of the chapters. According to TP Judd’s logic that makes the study unworthy. If Exxon is involved it’s gotta be fake science. He would know, since lawyers act like they know everything.
And you know why you don’t hear about scientist who don’t agree with Al Gore’s exaggerated effects of global warming? Because he suppresses their views. Go ask Ted Koppel how Gore tried to use him and the media to suppress opposing views. What a fascist dick.
June 1st, 2006 at 12:33 am..and mind the West Nile virus-ridden mosquitoes don’t bite.
June 1st, 2006 at 12:34 amIs this the same memphis minnie mind that was decrying the 2001IPCC rerport a couple of days ago on another thread about Al Gore?
June 1st, 2006 at 12:43 amTerryTurtle you’re a grim one to be sure.
Being a pessimist I suppose is not all bad. After all,we need optimists to build airplanes, but we need pesimists to make parachutes.
Just remember, we end up using the airplanes a lot more than the parachutes, if you get my drift.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:15 amWhat a fascist dick.
Comment by memphis minnie — June 1, 2006 @ 12:32 am
Memphis minnie is it? Thats a very cosmopolitan name to be sure, and I am certain you are a women of excellent breeding and education as is demonstrative in your writing, but perhaps you should examine your logic.
The ONLY scientists according to EVERY scientific group not sympathetic to the big oil companies, says global warming and human involvement in it, is a fact. Every single one.
Now we know what those scientists on the payroll or getting speaking gigs from the big oil companies motivation is, but you the ONLY argument you geniuses has is that Al Gore is inventing Global warming because he hates the big oil companies.
Thats not exactly what we call a scientific argument.
“He hates big oil companies”.
While I am sure that argument worked for explaining why all of your teachers flunked you in high school, it doesn’t even register in the adult section here.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:23 amStopping global warming is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is staying awake long enough to here what Al has to say.He knows what he’s talking about,he’s just as dry as toast. Just woke up after viewing Al Gore clip at 5:15 pm. How the hell does Tipper do it?
June 1st, 2006 at 1:23 amTrue Todd.
Those with limited intelligence often exhibit a short attention span.
We’ll have to work on that.
Perhaps some mono-syllabic subtitles?
June 1st, 2006 at 1:28 amBy the way, you might try his movie, an Inconvenient truth.
Out of 111 new movies its at number 22. Not exactly a box office smash, documentaries usually aren’t, but definately a strong opening at over a quarter of a million dollars.
It has pictures and music so it should keep you awake for at least half of it.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:35 amDear Worfeus, I’ll take the subtitles, mono or not as long as I dont have to hear Al talk. This is why I enjoyed Earth in the Balance. I’m sure I’ll buy An Inconvenient Truth. I just can’t listen to him. He opens his mouth and I feel drowsy.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:42 amAnd that my dear Todd, is why the democrats fail.
Not because of how he talks. But because of how we listen.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:43 amDoes Al narrate the movie?
June 1st, 2006 at 1:43 am#102, you’ve never been to the Haight, otherwise you would understand the reference. You’re missing out.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:46 amStop loosing the race before its even run.
Suck it up. Get mad. Put on your gameface and man up. Listen up. Shore it up and lets get it up.
Its time for democrats to stop freaking whining, and start getting behind one single candidate. All for one and one for all.
Thats the only formula thats gonna beat the reich.
Remember each time we fail, the world suffers.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:48 am[...] Much too many Democratic politicians make a habit of responding to a right-wing view of the world. From the get-go, they trap themselves in a rhetorical box simply by validating a version of events that has no relation to reality. I’ve seen the least prepared and best prepared Dems make the mistake, including Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Al Gore. Thankfully it appears that Al Gore is learning. Witness this exchange from the CBS Early Show in which Gore deftly rejects the faulty premise. SMITH: But if I look at more elements, the more conservative elements of the press, I would say there is a debate going on because, you know, they say that you’re just trying to create this kind of bogeyman to help slow down the economy and everything else. How do you respond to that? [...]
June 1st, 2006 at 1:49 am#102, you’ve never been to the Haight, otherwise you would understand the reference. You’re missing out.
Comment by memphis minnie — June 1, 2006 @ 1:46 am
Minnie with the trash you tried to pass off as science the other day we ain’t missing much……
what trash you say…trying to pass off someone who claims intelligent design is real science…check out your references better..like read all of them.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:50 amWe don’t need to “look” for a candidate for the democrats. We’ve got a former Vice President of the United States right in our camp. All we have to do is rally behind our general, and he’ll take the fight to the enemy.
But instead, its more fun to nitpick and bicker, and choose 8 or 9 candidates to muddy up the waters and divide the party.
Get smart now. Before we loose again. Support the Vice President, who also happened to WIN the 2000 election.
Either we do it now or we loose in 08, again.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:52 amOh, you call exaggerating the facts science? Bwhahahaha! STFU.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:55 amDoes W O R F E U S stand for something? just asking?
June 1st, 2006 at 1:56 amThats the problem with peacemakers.
They just don’t know how to go to war when they need to.
We could learn a lot from our republican counterparts.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:56 amNot really Todd. Its just a handle. Its a collage of the names worf and morpheus, and I like it because it has a Roman-Greco sound to it.
Flavius Worfeus
June 1st, 2006 at 1:58 amIs Dornan your real name? Is your moms name Diane?
Just asking too.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:59 amOh ok I was thinking World Organization ——. Flavius?….. nice.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:01 amDornan is real. Moms not Diane. Being I’m so well rested from my unintentional nap I’m gonna go for a bike ride. Keep up the good fight.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:07 amYou bet. Keep your game face on Todd. You know what to do.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:11 amThe real reason the right is not interested in global warming is because of the rapture.
Bush sees a scorched earth policy as no big deal. After all, the world will be destroyed and recreated anyway, so why worry about a few holes in the atmosphere?
June 1st, 2006 at 2:13 amOh, you call exaggerating the facts science?
Comment by memphis minnie — June 1, 2006 @ 1:55 am
No but Bush Cheney and Rummy call it intell….
as for exagerating the “scientists” who WORK for big oil that do not submit their “scientific work” to the actual scientific community for peer review, well they must be afraid of something..like it is no better than the intellegent design crock of sh*t
STFU.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:17 amClif. I know these guys, the right wing Christian conservative. I know them, because I used to be one of them. Thats why they hate me so much I think. Because to them, I’m somewhat of an apostate.
Love me, hate me, but understand them I do. And they are used to not being accepted in secular scholarly institutions, which is why they have no problem in quoting from a text book from Falwell College, or the 700 Club. These guys believe in the scorched earth policy, and they do not understand, that the bible itself has made them stewards over this place. Imagine if the master of a house came home, and found out the steward had thrown a kegger, started a bunch of fights and finally burned down the place.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:27 amI have a simpler question Flavius worfeus…why do they turn their back upon the actual words of Jesus and the ideas he expressed…why do they hate jesus so much they deny him and his sacrifice?
June 1st, 2006 at 2:31 amThats a much more difficult question to answer.
In fact, the very act of asking the question is what finally I think led me away. There is no way to correlate the bloodshed committed in the name of Christianity for the last 2000 years, and therefore, they invent ideas, sayings, concepts and dogmas that seem to endorse the concept of the holy christian warrior.
Of course, republicans are not the first to do this. This has been done for almost 2000 years now, since they streched Lactantius on the rack only a few centuries after the death of Christ, to the conquests of Charles the Great, to the beheadings commited by the armies of Ferdinand and Isabella, to the tortures of terror of Tomas Torquemada, to the torture and slaughter of Hitler and the Nazi’s, the idea of the Christian warrior has dotted our historical landscape.
How they square that with the actual teachings of the man they call savior, the world has yet to answer.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:38 amBut if you ever get one, let me know. I’d love to hear it.
In fact, I’m all ears.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:40 amAll I’ve ever got is unpleasent looks, rude remarks, and told I’m going to hell. Of course since only God on judgement day is supposed to actually know that, I place their pronouncement about me in the catagory of junk science too….
June 1st, 2006 at 2:43 amWell, Jesus, speaking directly of Judging not anothers actions, but sins, told them to “Judge Not, lest ye be Judged”.
I see no reason why he would say anything different to those who you’ve spoken to.
But as for those idiots like the numbskull who was in here the other night? The Bible thumpers, that believe God is such a undeveloped deity, that if we don’t say yes, I believe in this religion, or that religion, then I’m damned to hell for eternity.
Christ judged people on their actions, not on what they believed. In fact, he warned the Pharisees, and even some of his own followers, “Ye say ye believe and ye think ye do well? The devils likewise believe, and tremble“.
June 1st, 2006 at 2:48 amInteresting that no mention is made of the correction that Science magazine had to issue in face of the fact that the author misrepresented the search terms she used in her study. Also no mention is made of any opposition research, where vastly different conclusions were made as to the number of abstracts that support the idea of man-made global warming.
http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/Scienceletter.htm
and my own blog which tells the story:
http://nothingcouldbefiner.blogspot.com/2006/06/think-progress-offers-shoddy-research.html
But, that’s par for the course here at Think Progress.
Later,
June 1st, 2006 at 2:53 amDamnation according to the Jesus of the New Testament, came not from lack of faith, or sexual transgression, but from ignoring the plight of the poor, hurting innocent people, violence and corruption.
The best way to get to heaven if you’re to believe Jesus, is to give some money to a bum, help a widow out, visit a buddy in prison, or give some clothes to someone without clothes.
Maybe his ultimate message was heaven and hell, are what we make of them?
June 1st, 2006 at 2:55 amI don’t mind them condeming me to hell, I just consider the fact that they actually do not get to make that decision…
What bothers me is how they are trying to spin everything to fit into a distorted uniformed biblical view and denying science because it does not fit their preconcieved notions that are actually mimiced lines they have been told…most can not defend their statements if challanged
they can give me the biblical quotes mostly from the old testement and ignoring the words of Jesus and most of the new testement because of the inconvient sermon on the mount that turns their statements on their heads…
June 1st, 2006 at 2:55 amAfter all, if we get to heaven, and its filled with a bunch of right wing jackasses, wouldn’t that really be hell?
June 1st, 2006 at 2:59 amYou’ve actually hit on a key topic Clif. Most so called born again Christians, who endorse war and endorse killing, actually lean almost exclusively on the OT to support their dogmas.
Of course, as a Christian, you are bound to the laws of Christ, NOT the laws of Moses, so their points are inherintly moot.
June 1st, 2006 at 3:04 amI have a completely different view of heaven and hell..seeing that an omnipresent and omnipotent God would not need our adulation…heaven is where everyone goes to talk to God about our lives and explain our actions..and when he accepts our explanations we get to enter…the explanation could be “hell” for some….
June 1st, 2006 at 3:16 amThats nice Clif. I like that. I draw my interpretation of heaven and hell, at least from a biblical perspective, as places where we will be around the people most like us.
Think of it. If you’re an real rat bastard, imagine being around nothing but a bunch of other real rat bastards.
The reason rat bastards get to be rat bastards, is because there are nice people around to offset them. Once they’re all in one place, their lives will suck.
June 1st, 2006 at 3:19 amThe Wheat and the Tares points to this, as do other parables and prophecies but in the end, its just my opinion.
June 1st, 2006 at 3:25 amBut I got my Idea from the remarks of Jesus when he states he would stand in for some in front of his father…must mean everybody has to go thru it…and as I would not throw one of my daughters into hell but would instead spend an enormous amount of time attempting to understand them and help them grow and become fully spiritual as Jesus asks in the bible..I can not see God doing any less….
June 1st, 2006 at 3:27 amThere is no debate. Global warming has occurred, is occurring right now, and will continue if policy makers don’t pull Big Energy’s dick out of their mouths.
June 1st, 2006 at 11:04 amWhat we have to do Hunter in addition to the surgical removal you referenced, is convince these guys that the Rapture does not mean we can burn up the planet.
They think Jesus is coming in a few years. Who knows, maybe he is.
But if he is, don’t you think it would be better if we still have an ozone when he gets here?
June 1st, 2006 at 11:51 amFirst thing hes gonna say when he gets here is, who put all the holes in my ozone???
June 1st, 2006 at 11:53 amHow can anyone still think the Earth is flat?
Comment by unbelievable #43
unbelievable,
…who’s to say that Cleveland is still there, when we aren’t?
…doesn’t this kind of “out of sight, out of mind” zero depth perception view of the world…
..mean that conservative inbreds have not (according to Piaget) developed past the…
…”sensorimotor” stage?
June 1st, 2006 at 1:00 pmIt’s obvious now who the agents of pro-pollution are, including the Wall Street Journal and the National Review.
I’m still amazed at the vociferous attacks against this global warming issue, these right wing business types are really scared shitless! Why debate truth? Why be pro-pollution? Why by pro-destruction of the earth?
Compelling questions, and if the answer isn’t that they’re evil, it’s that they are greedy, shortsighted and ignorant.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:35 pmWell, they can lie, squirm, complain, stifle, threaten, stonewall and throw a tantrum, but like it or not, smart people across the world are changing the way we all think, and the days left of the reign of the oil giants are declining in numbers.
Technology usually has a way of leaving the dull and uneducated in the dust.
Bye bye Henry Ford. It was nice while it lasted.
June 1st, 2006 at 1:51 pm[...] Amen Al Gore! This morning on CBS’s Early Show, host Harry Smith asked Al Gore about “more conservative elements of the press†who say “there is a debate going on†about whether global warming exisits. Gore responded that “in some quarters there’s still a debate over whether the moon landing was staged in a movie lot in Arizona†and debates about whether global warming exists were “in that category.†[...]
June 1st, 2006 at 2:19 pmYour conservative friends and neighbors BEG progs to put Al Gore at the top of the ticket in ‘08. Fine VP candidates might be: “Ol’ Cut and Run†Murtha, or “Kewpie†Kuchinich. (Hillary would never go for the VP after having been Als’ co-boss for eight years – she’ll have to wait for ‘16….)
Comment by mighty hypocrite —
Mighty Hypocrite,
June 1st, 2006 at 6:09 pmBy saying that Hillary will have to wait until ‘16, you are, in fact, surmissing–admitting– that Gore will win again in ‘08 and ‘12. What a Freudian slip-up for you!
#107 – WorForLess waxes poetically: “Stop loosing the race before its even run.”
*****Excellent point! Progs need to have a VISION of a socialist, pacifist STATE. Meditation and chanting will improve the aura….
“Suck it up. Get mad. Put on your gameface and man up. Listen up. Shore it up and lets get it up.”
*****Here’s where it gets sticky for progs. The term gameface suggests competition. “Competitive nature” and “progressive” are an oxymoron. Do more recruiting at ANSWER Network and the Socialist Worker Websites – convince the Marxists that socialism WILL be introduced incrementally and that all variations of LEFTISTS MUST come together to repeal the “evil” conservatives.
“Its time for democrats to stop freaking whining, and start getting behind one single candidate. All for one and one for all.”
*****Great point!!! Too many progs are members of splinter organizations or specialty networks – but thankfully, so many of your causes cross over. Why just today, I found a fabulous idea to balance the budget and demonstrate a sincere concern for the beleaguered prison population. Hampton Roads Indy Media is suggesting the abolition of prisons!! This great idea lessens personal guilt and angst – in addition they have cross-over causes such as partial birth abortion, saving baby seals, and burning down ski resorts! What a coalition could be built!
“Thats the only formula thats gonna beat the reich.”
******Worf, was that beat the “reich” or the “rich”? I’m sure it’s the same thing in your book, but I wanted clarification. Of course, POUND home the fact that the workers would be better served with leftist, socialist, Communist institutions. (The degrees of socialism can be tailored to suit the group you’re trying to “bond” with.)
“Remember each time we fail, the world suffers.”
******ABSOLUTELY! The LLLL (Last Lovable, Leftist Leader) of modern times was Mr. Peristroyka. (I recall vividly the cheering throngs of US lefties who treated him as a “rock star”) The Left NEEDS to CONVEY the intelligence and “social justice” of socialism. Average people need to BELIEVE Leftys have ALL the answers.
Start networking with the Marxists, anti-imperialists at International A.N.S.W.E.R and Ramsey Clarks crew at Workers World Party. (These groups could also be joined by SIEU and AFSCME.) Explain that the goal WILL be met but reining in moderate and conservative DEMS is in the best interest of the planet. (I realize many on the left despise borders and nations…but a subtle approach could lead to victory for progs.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:52 pm#143 – Can’t fool you, Lora – EXCELLENT observation!!! I LOVE the exhilaration of Leftist confidence – keep up the good work…..
June 1st, 2006 at 6:57 pmCompetitive nature†and “progressive†are an oxymoron.
Comment by the NotSo-mighty aphrodite — June 1, 2006 @ 6:52 pm
You keep telling yourselves that slappy.
June 1st, 2006 at 7:23 pmWorf, was that beat the “reich†or the “rich� I’m sure it’s the same thing in your book, but I wanted clarification.
Comment by the NotSo-mighty aphrodite — June 1, 2006 @ 6:52 pm
Ja bedeute ich die Nazi Herrschaft. Sie wissen, das zahlen Sie Gebühren zu.
Ich weiS, das Sie die Bingo und Bratwurstnachte sich sorgen.
June 1st, 2006 at 7:28 pmOne of the saddest lessons of history is this:
If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth.
The bamboozle has captured us.
it is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken.
Dr Carl Sagan
June 1st, 2006 at 7:55 pmThe Demon-Haunted World (The fine art of Baloney detection)
So Worf, can you see this post? I am speaking to you from my ‘Free Speech Zone’ where I have been placed by TP since early today….still no word on which thought crime I have committed.
June 1st, 2006 at 7:58 pmYes I can see it.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:04 pmAnd BTW MA,
WorForLess is really kind of a lame name if your goal was to dis me.
I mean, what does it mean? If you’d spelled it warforless, then at least it’d mean something, albeit more aptly addressed to one of your hoard.
Try something like, Barfeus, or Boareus, or maybe Dorkeus.
Those are much more amusing and they actually can be construed to mean something derogatory.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:10 pmI Love Al Gore. I always had my support and he will always have it. A true Great American.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:55 pmI Love Al Gore. He always had my support and he will always have it. A true Great American.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:55 pmGreat comments everyone, and I read everyone
’s. I would love to see Gore as president, but keep in mind what (I believe) Stalin said, “It’s not the votes that count, but who COUNTS the votes”. With this in mind I’ve been trying to figure out an honest & tamperproof system for holding elections. Finally a solution dawned on me. I know it might be a bit of a long read for a blog, but in the interest of our country I’m going to post it below hoping some of the obviously intelligent bloggers I just read will pass it on to others. I welcome feedback and input. Send any comments to me at Paul.Magill@Rockitz.org
Here it is:
“A Better Election System” By Paul Magill Smith 3-8-2K6
“To begin with, in the United States there must be a powerful demolition of the old political order: We need elections where all votes are cast and counted. The campaign against voter repression is the essential civil rights struggle of our time, even though most progressives don’t seem to realize it yet. Prevailing will require fundamental reform such as the introduction of nationwide vote-by-mail (the Oregon system). Without that, and also many relentless prosecutions, nothing else will be achieved”.—JAMES K. GALBRAITH March 30, 2006 “Taming Global Capitalism Anew”—(April 17, 2006 issue of The Nation Magazine)
James K. Galbraith, chair of the board of Economists for Peace and Security, teaches at the University of Texas and is senior scholar with the Levy Economics Institute
The latest round of corruption in our government stems from the biggest executive crime of all. In collusion with the Supreme Court our glorious president/dictator/tyrant “stole” the election of 2000, with another criminal (Tom DeLay) “stole” a majority in the house through re-districting, and with corporate henchmen in Diebold & Company “stole” another presidency in 2004. Whether you agree with the presidential election results or not there were statistical anomolies, and thousands of citizen complaints that should have required greater scrutiny & inquiry.
Since the 2000 presidential election our national coffers have been looted to the tune of trillions of dollars, and with almost three more years to go in this theocratic oligarchy there is still much more damage to come. Our financial ruin, through an unsustainable balance of trade deficit, massive fiscal deficits, and a consolidation of wealth in the hands of a few individuals & corporations, bodes ill for generations of Americans to come—IF there are generations to come after the effects of global warming, a state of perpetual global war, and depleted uranium have their way with us.
A bleak picture-yes-but there is cause for hope. Going under the assumption most Americans have a streak of common sense, and an inbred respect for ‘the rule of law’, the first step toward retrieving our now stolen democracy is restoring honesty to our electoral process. Accountability, verifiability, and transparency are not luxuries; they are necessities if democracy in America (the world) is to be viable.
With these considerations in mind I propose an entirely new election system for this country. It uses, for the most part, existing equipment & technology already in place throughout the entire country, and would only require the development of some software. Election expenses would be reduced, election theft would become a thing of the past, and national referendums on key issues would become a possibility. The ‘will of the people’ would become king, instead of the preferences of King George/Dick/Karl/Donald/ etc.
So here is the idea. Currently in the US there are 368,000 ATM machines. They are easy to use (even from a car), provide a paper trail, accessible by use of a card with security features, and very accurately keep track of billions of transactions every month (a 1% accuracy error, which is acceptable for most elections, would land bankers out of their jobs & very likely jailed).
OK, so the first part deals with voting at ATM’s, except when they are being used for elections they would become AVM’s (Automatic Voting Machines).
The issue of verifiability would be very simple also. Since each registered voter would receive their own magnetic credit-card type, individually numbered card (requiring a personalized identification number-PIN-to make it work), each voter would have a specific number, and security that they were the only one who had the secret code to access the AVM. Following an election their unique number, along with the way their vote was recorded would be published in the local paper & on the internet at a specific site. Since all the voter numbers could be placed in numerical order it would be easy to scan down the list to your number and verify your vote was cast for the person you wanted it to be.
If it was an election with candidates in a number of positions your vote would read as a multi-character number. An example would be 1324113 in which you voted for 7 different people for as many electable posts. The AVM would have given you a hard copy receipt to be used to verify against the posted list.
ATM’s are already linked to central computers, so collection of the total votes from all the machines should present very little problem. Election officials would be necessary at these institutions to verify all the votes were retrieved, but the elimination of officials at each precinct polling place would eliminate much of the costs of holding elections as with our current system. As a further dis-incentive to election fraud, caused by computer tampering, if a certain percentage or number of voters provide their AVM receipt to election officials, and their vote code doesn’t match that of the central computers, the election results are AUTOMATICALLY declared void, resulting in a new election.
Since I have only begun thinking & writing about this new system I am sure there are many details to be considered and worked out. The bottom line is the current election system is broken, with millions of Americans lacking confidence in the extant election process & results.
As the world’s oldest democracy, holding our ’system’ up as a model for budding or want-to-be democracies around the globe, it behooves us to make sure our own system is the best we can possibly make it, and the one others will wish to emulate. “Do as I say” is not good enough. If America is to ‘talk the talk’ we must ‘walk the walk’ also.
Paul Magill Smith
June 11th, 2006 at 1:00 pm2607 Towngate Ct.
Richmond, VA 23233
804-360-9382
Rockitz.org
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