Comments on: Robert Redford on kicking the oil habit: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:15:46 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614069 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:44:23 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614069 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614067 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:44:21 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614067 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614068 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:44:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614068 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614066 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:44:19 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614066 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614064 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:44:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614064 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614065 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:44:18 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614065 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. I would like to know who is telling me I made that comment before

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614056 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:42:46 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614056 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post. did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? AND, by the way it is my FIRST, comment, ever, on this post.

]]> By: c. wild http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-614046 c. wild Tue, 13 Jun 2006 15:38:14 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-614046 did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water? did I read, somewhere, in the past, that car engines, could actually run on water?

]]> By: Zookeeper http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587433 Zookeeper Wed, 31 May 2006 17:39:54 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587433 #11 - Entry drug...gateway...? High school or college, Xbot? Not that there's anything wrong with that. #11 – Entry drug…gateway…?

High school or college, Xbot? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

]]> By: TerrytheTurtle http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587282 TerrytheTurtle Wed, 31 May 2006 16:37:34 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587282 #18, right on WBH - a carbon tax - tax the wastage of energy and the impact on the environment. Let the real cost of driving laps around the freeway and stopping for a burger and fries be clearly stated. The price of every US gallon should have included in it, the price of every aircraft carrier being used to secure the supply. #18, right on WBH – a carbon tax – tax the wastage of energy and the impact on the environment. Let the real cost of driving laps around the freeway and stopping for a burger and fries be clearly stated. The price of every US gallon should have included in it, the price of every aircraft carrier being used to secure the supply.

]]> By: Tom the Barbarian http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587277 Tom the Barbarian Wed, 31 May 2006 16:36:08 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587277 The next time Mr. Redford decides to visit his place in Colorado and flies commercial instead of via private jet I'll start listening to him about "kicking our oil habit". I'm growing a little weary of those who want to tell the rest of us how to live without taking any of their own advice. The next time Mr. Redford decides to visit his place in Colorado and flies commercial instead of via private jet I’ll start listening to him about “kicking our oil habit”. I’m growing a little weary of those who want to tell the rest of us how to live without taking any of their own advice.

]]> By: TerrytheTurtle http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587274 TerrytheTurtle Wed, 31 May 2006 16:34:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587274 #17, Brazil is a fine example, but three things stop the Western economies from copying them: (1) Brazil gets ethanol from sugar which yields more ethanol per acre than corn and is grown in a tropical climate (maybe in 50 years, the US can rely on climate change to help here - tongue firmly in cheek) (2) Brazil's energy intensity per person is six times as small as the average American - therefore they have a much smaller target to shoot for (3) Brazil's farming industry is much more labor intensive, meaning that the Western countries burn a lot of hydrocarbons just to farm their corn, making the net energy gain minimal from corn-based ethanol #17, Brazil is a fine example, but three things stop the Western economies from copying them:
(1) Brazil gets ethanol from sugar which yields more ethanol per acre than corn and is grown in a tropical climate (maybe in 50 years, the US can rely on climate change to help here – tongue firmly in cheek)
(2) Brazil’s energy intensity per person is six times as small as the average American – therefore they have a much smaller target to shoot for
(3) Brazil’s farming industry is much more labor intensive, meaning that the Western countries burn a lot of hydrocarbons just to farm their corn, making the net energy gain minimal from corn-based ethanol

]]> By: west virginia hillbilly http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587268 west virginia hillbilly Wed, 31 May 2006 16:33:34 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587268 Ok, I'm alot like you folks, I own stock in ADM, GE , VZ, so I play the game. It beats making my money digging coal don't ya think? IMO, the only way that us capitalist are going to change is to actually pay for what we use. It's costing alot of money to get our oil, is it not? Blood and treasure. War and peace. Well, why don't we tax those things like nonrenewable energy? The reason we don't is because we all want something for nothing. And when we get to the point of not having, we will see the swing of the tao and harmony will be restored. Get used to some suffering dudes, we have had it, to good for to long. Democracy is a experiment, and the results look grim. Ok, I’m alot like you folks, I own stock in ADM, GE , VZ, so I play the game. It beats making my money digging coal don’t ya think? IMO, the only way that us capitalist are going to change is to actually pay for what we use. It’s costing alot of money to get our oil, is it not? Blood and treasure. War and peace. Well, why don’t we tax those things like nonrenewable energy?
The reason we don’t is because we all want something for nothing. And when we get to the point of not having, we will see the swing of the tao and harmony will be restored. Get used to some suffering dudes, we have had it, to good for to long. Democracy is a experiment, and the results look grim.

]]> By: green917 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587249 green917 Wed, 31 May 2006 16:28:01 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587249 We need to follow the lead of the Brazilians on this issue. Corn-produced ethanol, as is mentioned above, is not the panacea we need. Sugar-based ethanol on the other hand is much more efficient and cost effective to produce. While we've spent the last 20 years jockying for petroleum supremacy (read as: death and destruction in the name of enriching exxon and chevron), the Brazilians have spent that time on research in mapping the sugar genome. They will reach complete energy independance by the end of the year and estimates say it may save their economy as much as $70-90 Billion a year. I don't believe that ethanol is a long-term solution either but, as Lao Tzu said, "Even a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". We need to start somewhere and I think better development of the existing renewable technologies we have (ethanol, wind, & solar in particular) is definitly a step in the right direction. We need to follow the lead of the Brazilians on this issue. Corn-produced ethanol, as is mentioned above, is not the panacea we need. Sugar-based ethanol on the other hand is much more efficient and cost effective to produce. While we’ve spent the last 20 years jockying for petroleum supremacy (read as: death and destruction in the name of enriching exxon and chevron), the Brazilians have spent that time on research in mapping the sugar genome. They will reach complete energy independance by the end of the year and estimates say it may save their economy as much as $70-90 Billion a year. I don’t believe that ethanol is a long-term solution either but, as Lao Tzu said, “Even a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step”. We need to start somewhere and I think better development of the existing renewable technologies we have (ethanol, wind, & solar in particular) is definitly a step in the right direction.

]]> By: Jay Randal http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587194 Jay Randal Wed, 31 May 2006 16:09:02 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587194 Robert Redford is a good person but the GOP calls him a communist! The press mimics the GOP by ignoring his views! Robert Redford is a good person but the GOP calls him a communist! The press mimics the GOP by ignoring his views!

]]> By: SKdeA http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587193 SKdeA Wed, 31 May 2006 16:09:00 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587193 Unfortunately, there are NO ethanol stations in California. well, there is one at Lawrence Livermore Labs, for research, but they don't sell it. I guess they don't want to miss out on ther lucrative California driver's market. And really, no problem with oil abundance (we know the war was just to creat a bottleneck and drive up prices), but pollution is of course the big issue. Is ethanol cleaner burning? If so, we should be demanding it. Unfortunately, there are NO ethanol stations in California. well, there is one at Lawrence Livermore Labs, for research, but they don’t sell it.
I guess they don’t want to miss out on ther lucrative California driver’s market.
And really, no problem with oil abundance (we know the war was just to creat a bottleneck and drive up prices), but pollution is of course the big issue. Is ethanol cleaner burning? If so, we should be demanding it.

]]> By: DieNowForPeace http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587189 DieNowForPeace Wed, 31 May 2006 16:07:05 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587189 Hey Hillbilly, TerrytheTurtle is right: Different drug, different pushers, same result. (i.e. corruption and fleecing the public in order to make $$$) <em>ADM has reaped big dividends from lobbying the government over ethanol subsidies and mandates for its increased use in gasoline.</em> Good ol American politics. Whoever has the most money, wins! Part of ADM's lobbying effort is to tax imports on ethanol, keeping prices high, so they can make a profit from their product at the expense of the American consumer. As a result, ethanol actually costs more per unit than gasoline. And ethanol is less efficient than gasoline, so you'll be filling up more often as the % of ethanol per gallon increases. Where's the economic benefit in that? At least their stock prices are going up! Gotta stay focused on the goal of "he who dies with the most toys wins", right? Hey Hillbilly,
TerrytheTurtle is right: Different drug, different pushers, same result. (i.e. corruption and fleecing the public in order to make $$$)

ADM has reaped big dividends from lobbying the government over ethanol subsidies and mandates for its increased use in gasoline.

Good ol American politics. Whoever has the most money, wins!

Part of ADM’s lobbying effort is to tax imports on ethanol, keeping prices high, so they can make a profit from their product at the expense of the American consumer.

As a result, ethanol actually costs more per unit than gasoline.

And ethanol is less efficient than gasoline, so you’ll be filling up more often as the % of ethanol per gallon increases. Where’s the economic benefit in that?

At least their stock prices are going up! Gotta stay focused on the goal of “he who dies with the most toys wins”, right?

]]> By: TerrytheTurtle http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587183 TerrytheTurtle Wed, 31 May 2006 16:06:16 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587183 #11, Xbot - I don't agree that oil is in abundance - I think oil has already peaked or is going to in the next 5 years. Which ever way you look at it, ethanol is not a cost-effective replacement for West Texas crude at $4 a barrel to produce. I somewhat agree that ethanol has a stopgap future and is one way as Hillbilly says, using coops, to break the monopoly of Big Oil. However, I have no faith that ADM and Cargill will not also use the power of the 'market' (corporate speak for lobbying) to tilt the field against the coops. However, noone yet has articulated to me where the replacement of energy demand today at today's prices is coming from....ethanol doesn't have it, wind cant do it, nuclear can't do it all... #11, Xbot – I don’t agree that oil is in abundance – I think oil has already peaked or is going to in the next 5 years. Which ever way you look at it, ethanol is not a cost-effective replacement for West Texas crude at $4 a barrel to produce. I somewhat agree that ethanol has a stopgap future and is one way as Hillbilly says, using coops, to break the monopoly of Big Oil. However, I have no faith that ADM and Cargill will not also use the power of the ‘market’ (corporate speak for lobbying) to tilt the field against the coops. However, noone yet has articulated to me where the replacement of energy demand today at today’s prices is coming from….ethanol doesn’t have it, wind cant do it, nuclear can’t do it all…

]]> By: west virginia hillbilly http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587129 west virginia hillbilly Wed, 31 May 2006 15:35:54 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587129 Hey TerrytheTurtle, checkout what's going on with ethanol co-op's. I've owned stock in ADM for years and i think the co-op's can push them in the right direction. Hey TerrytheTurtle, checkout what’s going on with ethanol co-op’s. I’ve owned stock in ADM for years and i think the co-op’s can push them in the right direction.

]]> By: Xbot http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/comment-page-1/#comment-587128 Xbot Wed, 31 May 2006 15:35:16 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/31/robert-redford-on-kicking-the-oil-habit/#comment-587128 #10 - think of ethanol as the entry drug to our long term solution. It's like a sleeping pill - it'll keep you going for now, but it's a gateway to solve the larger problem of insomnia. Ethanol is our gateway to solving hte larger problem of energy production - we need something that's going to last; we switched from coal to oil because oil was cleaner and it seemed to be in abundance; it's in abundance now, but it's in places we don't want to depend on. #10 – think of ethanol as the entry drug to our long term solution. It’s like a sleeping pill – it’ll keep you going for now, but it’s a gateway to solve the larger problem of insomnia. Ethanol is our gateway to solving hte larger problem of energy production – we need something that’s going to last; we switched from coal to oil because oil was cleaner and it seemed to be in abundance; it’s in abundance now, but it’s in places we don’t want to depend on.

]]>