Novak Selectively Edits Report to Defend Big Oil
Novak Selectively Edits Report to Defend Big Oil
Robert Novak’s column today is devoted to attacking an upcoming California ballot initiative, the Clean Alternative Energy Initiative, which would impose a severance tax on California oil producers to create a $4 billion investment fund “to help advance clean energy technologies.”
The thrust of Novak’s argument is that the initiative will harm California’s economy. For instance, he warns Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) against endorsing the measure since “it will be hammered home for the next five months that the oil initiative will mean higher prices and a slower economy.” Novak justifies this conclusion by citing a report by California’s nonpartisan Legislative Analyst Elizabeth Hill:
[According to the report, the] severance tax could reduce property tax, income tax and gasoline tax revenues. The report continued that the tax “could result in a reduction in economic activity reflected . . . in a reduction in jobs.â€
But Novak leaves off the critical last few words of that sentence. Here’s the actual report:
To the extent that the measure reduces investment in oil production, the measure could result in a reduction in economic activity, reflected, for example, in a reduction in jobs and/or capital purchases related to the oil industry.
Yes, it’s true: a ballot initiative designed to shift California away from polluting fossil fuels to clean renewable energy sources may result in a loss of jobs in the oil industry. This isn’t exactly a shocking revelation. The more important question is whether those lost jobs will be replaced by new jobs in the alternative energy sector, and it turns out the report Novak cites weighs in on that very question:
[U]sing revenues derived from the severance tax to invest in new technologies may spur economic development in California. … [T]he benefits to the economy from this development may offset, to an unknown extent, any negative economic impacts of the measure.
In fact, economists at UC Berkeley’s Goldman School of Public Policy estimate the initiative “will help create new industries, technologies, and tens of thousands of good paying jobs focused on renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean alternative fuels and clean alternative fuel vehicles.”
Needless to say, none of that made it into Novak’s column.
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Using ethonal or similar type fuels, would could also help produce good jobs in rural segmants of the US. Places that often have large parts of thier populace living in poverty conditions.
June 1st, 2006 at 4:21 pmWho reads Novak anymore other than the Bush whores?
June 1st, 2006 at 4:22 pmNo No No TP, you just don’t understand.
Look at how many candle makers lost their jobs after the advent of Electricity?(Gotta love any chance for an Ayn Rand reference) Or how many horsy type jobs were lost after the advent of the horseless carriage? Both events our economy has never fully recovered from.
June 1st, 2006 at 4:26 pmMommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Those will be Novak’s words on his death bed.
June 1st, 2006 at 4:28 pmCan any Republican accurately cite studies?
If you have to lie then there is obviously something wrong with your position and you know it… so why not just change your position?
June 1st, 2006 at 4:29 pmCan any Republican accurately cite studies?
Comment by G.W.SuperChrist — June 1, 2006 @ 4:29 pm
Of course not! They still believe the bible calss for an eye for an eye.
June 1st, 2006 at 4:31 pmThey cannot even read studies with their heads up their a**es.
June 1st, 2006 at 4:33 pmRobert Novak makes Dracula’s Renfield look positively suave and urbane.
June 1st, 2006 at 4:44 pmYou cannot hope to bribe or twist
June 1st, 2006 at 4:50 pmBob Novak, so-called journalist
But, considering what he wretch will do
Unbribed, there’s no occasion to.
You cannot hope to bribe or twist
June 1st, 2006 at 4:50 pmBob Novak, so-called journalist
But, considering what the wretch will do
Unbribed, there’s no occasion to.
“Needless to say, none of that made it into Novak’s column.”
Isn’t that comparable to you guys leaving out tidbits like the Sun being in a warming period currently, and how Mar’s temperature is also believed to be rising currently when you talk about global warming?
June 1st, 2006 at 5:04 pm#12 squege – Does your question have anything to do with anything… I feel like your trying to make a point but you just don’t have the mental machinery to pull off such a task.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:15 pmOutrageous. Novak needs to be exposed on this just like Soloman with the AP flap.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:16 pm#11
or how i cannot walk through a mall with out tripping over candles, or that horses are worth more than my entire family….oh because oil is doing wonders for the economy, there can always be a debate on how much material or how many details are involved in a story, but you cannot misconstrue the findings, or facts…ill bite, the sun is going through a warming period, mars temptures are rising, yet the study’s cited still point to human technologies causing the abrupt and potentially catastrophic impact to the world’s climate
June 1st, 2006 at 5:16 pmDont they ever learn? I mean really. Come on Novak… Didnt you think someone would look that up and see what you had done to mislead people?
June 1st, 2006 at 5:21 pm“Needless to say, none of that made it into Novak’s column.â€
Isn’t that comparable to you guys leaving out tidbits like the Sun being in a warming period currently, and how Mar’s temperature is also believed to be rising currently when you talk about global warming?
Comment by squegeeboo
No because what the sun is doing does not negate the fact that CO2 DOES have an effect and humans DO produce an industrial quantity of CO2. Saying the sun is warming does not change the fact that humans are making things warmer… pointing out that the sun is getting warmer only makes the situation worse because now we got the sun and CO2 working together to help tip the scale….
June 1st, 2006 at 5:24 pmbushllit
Just look at your own statement
“you cannot misconstrue the findings, or facts”
“sun is going through a warming period, mars temptures are rising yet the study’s cited still point to human technologies causing the abrupt and potentially catastrophic impact to the world’s climate”
So the Sun can increase Mar’s temp. but our increases arn’t related to the sun…..Sounds like there is some miscontrued facts or findings to make the Suns, Earths, and Mars temp. increases unrelated.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:25 pmDoes your question have anything to do with anything… I feel like your trying to make a point but you just don’t have the mental machinery to pull off such a task.
Comment by G.W.SuperChrist — June 1, 2006 @ 5:15 pm
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:29 pm—Plato
Doesn’t Novakula think that anyone will fact-check him?
June 1st, 2006 at 5:30 pmWise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.
—Plato
Comment by unbelievable — June 1, 2006 @ 5:29 pm
Also…in spongbob’s case, better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt!
June 1st, 2006 at 5:31 pmJules
“Also…in spongbob’s case, better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt!”
And then what would you do for fun?
June 1st, 2006 at 5:32 pm#17 squeege – apparently you can’t read?
The sun clearly is warming us. CO2 adds to that. I think Gibson’s post was very clear. We’re just making things worse, numbnuts.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:32 pmSo the Sun can increase Mar’s temp. but our increases arn’t related to the sun…..Sounds like there is some miscontrued facts or findings to make the Suns, Earths, and Mars temp. increases unrelated.
Comment by squegeeboo — June 1, 2006 @ 5:25 pm
Seixon tried to come up with that nonsense a few months ago. He’d never post a link so I could read the source he kept referencing.
From my own personal research, as a now former Science teacher (it’ll be architecture in the Fall), I have found nothing to suggest that our sun, which is actually burning itself out because for every four hydrogen atoms it fuses into a helium atom (for which we get light and heat), it shrinks.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:33 pmOK, I always ask, What if the warming has nothing to do with human activity? Is the warming still a significant problem anyway? Lets eliminate the blame game and get on to weather or not we are addressing the warming (no pun intended).
How can warming be so good? I live in the mountainous region in AZ, we have the largest contiguous Ponderosa Pine forest in North America. The heat and lack of winter snows are causing serious problems, draught, catostrophic wildfires, no ski season for our town which brings 20 million in revenue to the city. Not to mention my own winter depression with no skiing.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pm“We’re just making things worse, numbnuts.”
Worse to you, Rochester could use a few extra degrees a year.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pmAnd then what would you do for fun?
Comment by squegeeboo — June 1, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
Needlepoint
June 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pmAlso…in spongbob’s case, better to remain silent and thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt!
Comment by Jules — June 1, 2006 @ 5:31 pm
That train has long since left the station!
June 1st, 2006 at 5:34 pmAnd then what would you do for fun?
Comment by squegeeboo — June 1, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
Poking our own eyes out with a stick would be a bit more amusing… :)
June 1st, 2006 at 5:35 pmNovak’s such an idiot he’s hardly worth bothering about.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:38 pmNovak’s such an idiot he’s hardly worth bothering about.
Comment by Bush Bites — June 1, 2006 @ 5:38 pm
Thats why I’m not even talking about him (who?).
June 1st, 2006 at 5:39 pmPoking our own eyes out with a stick would be a bit more amusing… :)
Comment by unbelievable — June 1, 2006 @ 5:35 pm
I’d rather do needlepoint (which I would abhor if I actually HAD to do)
June 1st, 2006 at 5:39 pmThe actual air temperature getting warmer isn’t the only effect of global warming squeege. If it were, there wouldn’t be much of an issue.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:39 pmI’m sick of the economy being used as an excuse by big, wealthy industry for everything when they just do what they want anyway. They say if they are regulated then they will have to cut jobs or raise prices…so they don’t get regulated and they do it anyway.
The economy is a thing that WE make. It is what WE make of it. The economy isn’t some biological entity that lives and breathes on its own. It’s time people grew some balls and realize that we NEED the environment to survive; to eat and breath and function as living creatures. If the oil industry goes under, then not only is it abotu damn time, but we’ll replace it with something newer and better.
As far as I’m concerned this worshipping of the economy as an actual science or law is little more than a way to keep the people complacent and working for the wealthy and powerful. Be good and don’t ask questions because you’ll hurt the economy and you wouldn’t want to do that do you? Jesus…we used to use the barter system before there was money. We used something else before the dollar. To be afraid of hurting the economy is the biggest boogie-man scam ever put onto the people. The only thing the economy does right now is increases theg aps between the rich and the poor, and allows the rich to essentially destroy everything that keeps us alive for their own insane level of profit.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:46 pmNovak….mmm…..um…I got nothin’
June 1st, 2006 at 5:49 pmNovaccuum
June 1st, 2006 at 5:50 pmThe actual air temperature getting warmer isn’t the only effect of global warming squeege. If it were, there wouldn’t be much of an issue.
Comment by DrSinker
exactly….
weather will become more extreme, stronger storms, as we saw this last hurricane season. But that is not limited to hurricanes, this means winter storms willbe more severe as well, some areas will experience more drought.
And if all the polar caps eventually melt, I will have a beach near my home in Austin, Texas
June 1st, 2006 at 5:50 pmPeople in allcoastal regions will have tomove or learn to breathe under water.
Isn’t that comparable to you guys leaving out tidbits like the Sun being in a warming period currently, and how Mar’s temperature is also believed to be rising currently when you talk about global warming?
The science on solar influence is quite weak.
CO2 influence, on the other hand, is conclusive:
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=3458&method=full
As opposed to the science having to do with a (conveniently) warming sun:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/07/the-lure-of-solar-forcing/
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/10/global-warming-on-mars
June 1st, 2006 at 5:51 pmSo the Sun can increase Mar’s temp. but our increases arn’t related to the sun…..Sounds like there is some miscontrued facts or findings to make the Suns, Earths, and Mars temp. increases unrelated.
First of all the sun heats all temps, that’s it point (besides light) as I see it in the scheme of things. Hence, summer is hotter than winter …we are closer to the sun during when? you guessed it summer! But, like I stated earlier, I have not researched your claims, but why does the sun going through a warmer peririod, and mars temps rising have to negate the fact that human activity is also playing into the mix, which has been founded by numerous scientists.
If humans, especially in the US and other developed countries, do not curb our behavior, the earths temp will continue to rise at an alarming rate causing dire effects. If we do curb our efforts and stop assuming the resources we enjoy today will always be their, we can preserve the current conditions longer.
how can that be disputed by anyone over 10?
June 1st, 2006 at 5:51 pmThey still believe the bible calss for an eye for an eye.
Jules,
I believe in Global Warming, not in the bible. But the eye for an eye thing works for me!
I’m so confused :)
June 1st, 2006 at 5:54 pmIsn’t that comparable to you guys leaving out tidbits like the Sun being in a warming period currently, and how Mar’s temperature is also believed to be rising currently when you talk about global warming?
Comment by squegeeboo
Show me what scientist supports this convoluted theory of yours.
I swear SpongeBob,I used to think you were a thinker even if you are pulling for the neo-nazi Bush crowd, but lately your comments have been almost as silly as Mighty Aphid’s comments
Please provide links to back your theory up.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:55 pmWaterworld, with GWB as a mutant with gills behind his ears. Dick Chain-eye will play Dennis Hopper’s character. All the Repugs show up in a large oil tanker and find all the libs living happily on land. But the libs knew of the “oil tanker people” and were prepared to deal with them.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:56 pmI see Old Bob is living up to his nickname from when he and his longtime friend Rowland Evans had a column called “Evans & Novak.” Because of their numerous inaccuracies, the team became known around DC as “Errors & No Facts”.
June 1st, 2006 at 5:59 pm#41 – Heh.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:01 pm#23 How can a Science teacher goes to teach architecture? I didnt get it? But anyway, I agree.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:08 pmBushllit actually we are closer to the sun in the november -February phase than we are in the April – September phase of the earth revolving around the sun…the seasons have to do with the tilt of the earths axis…..and the northern half of the planet is tilted toward the sun during the time when it is farther away…thus the heating in summer has to do with the amount of sunshine that falls on the earths surface much more than how far away it is…exposure not distance is the relevant factor for the seasons….but CO2 does trap more heat …and increasing it’s concetration does cause more heat to be trapped thus warming the atmosphere..and oceans..ie known as global warming
June 1st, 2006 at 6:11 pm#33 People running companies think they will develop an organic function that will allow them to drink their dollars, and stop UV rays tossing a lot of coins in the air.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:13 pmHow can a Science teacher goes to teach architecture? I didnt get it? But anyway, I agree.
Comment by Juan C — June 1, 2006 @ 6:08 pm
I was an architect. Got tired of Corporate America, so I decided to try teaching. There’s a big shortage for Science teachers and with my degrees, I qualified. Didn’t like the school district where I was, so I took the advice of a former classmate and applied for a job at a charter school that is opening in another district that is career-oriented. They needed an architecture teacher. Now they don’t :) Good timing, huh?
June 1st, 2006 at 6:24 pm#45,
June 1st, 2006 at 6:33 pmI stand corrected, thanks for pointing that out, I will be sure not to repeat that mistake…no bullshit
# 47
Really? Didnt expect that…maybe that is the reason why there are so many people not “believing” in global warming, as if it is a matter of faith. Sorry to ask again, but what are those science degrees you have? I dont mean to bother, but I cant imagine an architect doing science…Unless solar energy in buildings and the like, I would guess.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:33 pmThanks for this. How else would we know? I worte the Union Leader a very polite email asking whether or not they could cut Robert’s balls off with a lobster claw. Okay, I didn’t, but I did send them an email voicing my surprise and displeasure that such willful deception would appear in their paper. So there. Thanks again.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:34 pmLT
Juan C.
There is a shortage of qualified teachers dude, if she has the qualifications let her teach architecture.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:38 pm#51
June 1st, 2006 at 6:40 pmSorry, that was my mechanical engineering talking.
Sorry to ask again, but what are those science degrees you have? I dont mean to bother, but I cant imagine an architect doing science…Unless solar energy in buildings and the like, I would guess.
Comment by Juan C — June 1, 2006 @ 6:33 pm
Degrees are architecture and engineering. Requires a lot of physical science to get (mostly physics). My state has a chart that tells you what your degree allows you to teach. Mine qualify me for most sciences, Math, and Technology, besdies the obvious architecture and engineering.
We have a huge shortage here for Science, Math and Special Ed teachers. So they let poeple with non-teaching degrees go through an alternative certification process to help fill the voids.
June 1st, 2006 at 6:44 pmUnbelievable,
I’m willing to bet you’re a heck of a lot better teaching science with your background than many folks with education degrees. I’m guessing that charter school is quite lucky to have you.
Good luck!
June 1st, 2006 at 6:59 pmGood luck!
Comment by DrSinker — June 1, 2006 @ 6:59 pm
Thank you! I appreciate that.
Off to dinner…
June 1st, 2006 at 7:13 pmThis initiative is a great idea, and why would anyone in California listen to that creep Novak, who somehow avoided the hot seat for outing Valerie Plame on the orders of Cheney & Bush? He is just another lipsynced tool of the oil lobby.
June 1st, 2006 at 7:45 pm#1, wouldn’t that be nice, too bad there are no public ethanol stations here in California! Apparently it scares Big Oil,and they will do whatever they need to do to prevent us from having analternative.
June 1st, 2006 at 7:46 pmI’ll be voting, I pay no attention to Novak anyway!
What’s good for Big Oil is good for the Republican Party. Let’s face it, all the anti-environmentalists are tied to the Republican Party. The Party (or, more accurately, the Syndicate is tied to Big Oil. It’s a double whammy for Republicans….people are leaving the Crime and Corruption Party….and now the States are starting to pass legislation that threaten their cash spigot.
If they acknowledge that the climate is changing and we have better options than remaining addicted to ME Oil, they’ll be cutting the throat on their Golden Goose.
June 1st, 2006 at 7:51 pmArguing global warming with these guys is like arguing evolution – if you believe in the bible (or big oil), the science of evolution (or gobal warming) don’t mean diddly – Jesus and Dubya give the marching orders…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1785654,00.html?gusrc=rss
June 1st, 2006 at 8:17 pm“…which would impose a severance tax on California oil producers to create a $4 billion investment fund”
Hey TP Nico, pulling numbers out of you ass? That the so-called $4 billion fund is going to end up being less than $1 billion. Boy that will sure go a long way. Not.
It will take 15 to 20 years of taxing oil producers to get $4 billion. If you tax oil producers they’re going to stop producing oil in just a few years. Why produce oil just to get taxed? What’s the incentive? What are you going to do? “Force” them to produce oil for 15-20 years? This policy will shut down all of the small independent producers in California so the only companies that will be able to produce oil are the large companies that have oil production in other states. Large companies will then shut down production in Cali, creating a lack of supply. Since we’ll have to import oil from other sources while waiting years for other forms of energy to become economically and operationally feasible prices will increase on EVERYTHING that uses petroleum. Of course you socialists think you’re punishing big oil when you end up punishing all of the industries that rely on petroleum to operate. And punishing California’s citizens. You fascist dicks.
June 1st, 2006 at 8:33 pmSteed, my old oily pal. You were coherent until you went off with the name calling. How are socialists fascist dicks at the same time? Bad day at work?
June 1st, 2006 at 8:47 pmI was thinking about other examples of tax levies imposed on industry to serve the general public good to see if there were any ‘go-bys’ as to why Califonia’s levy wouldn’t work. I came up with Superfund – the 20 year program to have chemical and oil companies clean up toxic sites (like Love Canal and so on) by imposing taxes on them in general and penalties on transgressors. A very successful program, by all accounts, judging by the EPA web site.
Did any chemical companies go out of business? Maybe, hopefully some of the ones who deserved it. Were there any shortages of chemicals? Nope.
So sounds good to me. And what did Chimpy do when he inherited this highky successful example of government and industry working together for the good of the nation? He cut its funding 50%. Heckuvajob, Chimpy.
Looks to me that using taxes to engineer a kick start to the long slow process of teaching Americans about energy, its true cost and how to stop wasting it.
June 1st, 2006 at 9:17 pm…could work jut fine despite the cassandras shilling for the oil companies (forgot my conclusind line)
June 1st, 2006 at 9:21 pmBreaking NEWS.
Another murder by Marines in Iraq in April of this year.
The Marines apparently pulled a man from his home and murdered him.
Then they made his body look like an insurgent.
This is SEPERATE from the Haditha incident.
June 1st, 2006 at 10:04 pmAnd the US Army ‘liberated’ two women yesterday or the day before, one pregnant, so you pro-lifers should be counting 3 there, at a checkpoint.
I may have posted this, but it may have been zapped, so here it is again: over on Alterman, LTC Bob Bateman was relaying a story about giving ethics classes to his soldiers back in the 90s. Given that it occurs before the Iraq invasion and after Desert Storm and Somalia, this look into the mind of the US soldier is very disturbing indeed. Scroll down to May 31st When the Haditha report comes up with ‘combat stress’ as the primary cause, remember this little tale…
Well I would include the link, but the TP spam filter is on to me, Neo – come and get me out of here.
June 1st, 2006 at 10:42 pmthis look into the mind of the US soldier is very disturbing indeed.
Well Terry, I’d love to have that link to see what the mind of a soldier is like. I should say the opinion of that article’s writer of the mind of a soldier. I suppose you can lump all 26.5 million of us vets and the million plus serving into one tight knit little group. Hmmmm Last stat I found there were 37 Million African Americans in the US. Guess us vets/soldiers don’t have enough people to stop your generalizations.
Almost wish I had your education so that I could be so “Above” others, like you
(Comment Deleted to prevent filters from blocking what I would like to do to your cold dead corpse)
June 1st, 2006 at 11:39 pmDid any chemical companies go out of business? Maybe, hopefully some of the ones who deserved it
June 1st, 2006 at 11:41 pmFascist.
The new Iraqi ambassador to the US, Samir Al-Sumaidaie, claims Marines killed his cousin, a second year engineering university student, in a separate incident in Haditha, his hometown. “I believe he was killed intentionally,” Al-Sumaidaie told CNN on Sunday. “I believe that he was killed unnecessarily. And unfortunately, the investigations that took place after that sort of took a different course and concluded that there was no unlawful killing
This by the new ambassador of Iraq to the US…a real cut and run leftist there right mighty?
June 1st, 2006 at 11:44 pm…imposing taxes on them in general and penalties on transgressors.
This initiative calls for a penalty for being successful at providing a neccessary commodity to it;s customers. Hmm, I see where you’re coming from. Fascist.
June 1st, 2006 at 11:47 pmThe Sun is getting warmer? Mars too? Well my darling ones, we all live on the planet Earth. Not the Sun, and not on Mars. Try to stay focused, ok? As for Mr.Novak, if only he cared as much about our national security as he does about corporate security. Priorities…
June 1st, 2006 at 11:47 pmClif,
As a vet I say F’ You. You dare use our soldiers to serve as fodder for your agenda. You know I don’t care if you want to use Bush/Cheney or any other repub. But to have the balls to pull the card on the people who you once were, the people that are fighting for you for better benefits (You think it’s the left really or the vets groups hero???) The people that are trying to get you what you earned. You stab them and their children in the back.
You feel it’s right to pull isolated incidents of soldiers in battle as a means to slam Republicans? Don’t you have the intelligence to find something tangibile?
Do I take this personally? Yes I do. I never want to hear you say again you support the troops. You are right there accusing them of murder based on an Iraqi Ambassador, (Facts = to 0)
I see you believe what a reporter who is claiming to quote an Iraqi Ambassador says more than troops not brought up on charges. Bring your 100% disabled self into my vets club and I’ll let the disabled vets who I work with try your claim (NOT, Find a civilian lawyer).
June 1st, 2006 at 11:59 pm#67 – Memphis minnie – I’m a fascist for showing satisfaction that the worst and unrepentant chemical polluters may have gone out of business because of their actions? Shows two things about you:
1. You don’t deserve what the environmental legislation brought about by pressure from ordinary citizens has done for your country
2. You know nothing about fascism, since fascism is the fusion of corporatism and government not opposition to corporatism and government
3. You are of a mind to allow corporations to pollute and break health and safety laws – presumably you’d let BP Texas City off the hook for all the violations that led to the explosion and the deaths of, what was it 15 people. And I am the fascist for supporting penalties for industry?
Your resort to an factually absurd ad hominem attack is a simple admission of your inability to counter my point. Come back when you can leave your schoolyard behind.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:00 amHaha – shows three things, thought of Texas City at the last minute – fine example for you to get behind if you can, Minnie.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:03 amTundra you forget that the first admendment is free for all and I support the troops my daughter is still one of them so finding a few who are violating the laws of war and UCMJ must b3e exposed and properly tried for the crimes they commit..both to show as a country we will not tolorate it and to show that most US soldiers do not do this…if you do not like the truth GFUS
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:07 amBTW tundra the report of the Ambasadors words are on several news sites…and he does have the ear of the press…..so if the story offends you to f*cking bad…the truth hurts those who decieve themselves
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:09 amIndeed, we are “fascists”. In fact, we all fascists should get the hell out of the way of nice hard working companies, that provide gladly and without any greed their commodities. Fascists!!, please, minnie mouse, use that insult for a good cause and pride.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:12 am#69- Perhaps it would help to relax that tightly clenched rectum of yours to look at it as more of a ‘profit sharing’ plan, or a ‘dividend reinvestment program’? The Pharmaceutical Industry excels at justifying their thievery, saying that it is “R&D”, and the slow FDA approval process, blah, blah blah, that makes the drugs SO expensive. Yeah, sure. Whatever. But, see? It would be easy!! Right wing greed is what is stopping them. They do not want to share. So,so sad, but not a surprise.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:15 am(Comment Deleted to prevent filters from blocking what I would like to do to your cold dead corpse)
Comment by Tundra — June 1, 2006 @ 11:39 pm
And we are suprised that some GI’s are killing people?
Death threats are something to always take seriously. And THAT was a death threat,
No wonder we’re seeing so much crap in Iraq.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:22 amBTW tundra this is what I wrote on another thread;
The stories will come because it is so hard for soldiers in this kind of war…enemies all around not being able to tell which dislike you and which are willing to kill you…Friends getting killed and no civilians seem to know anything..
I read a blog called funwithhandgrenades…it is pretty well written and is by an infantry man with the 101st Division…it helps to understand what there soldiers and marines are going thru…and what the Iraqi’s are expierencing secondhand.
Comment by Clif — June 1, 2006 @ 10:39 pm
But even with what this soldier writes nothing justifies shooting small children….
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:29 am“The Sun is getting warmer? Mars too? Well my darling ones, we all live on the planet Earth. Not the Sun, and not on Mars. Try to stay focused, ok?”
Right, because the sun doesn’t influence our temp. at all, just Mars, that why it gets hotter during the day, and colder at night…………Instead of staying focused, try to accept basic scientific fact, such as the Sun affecting temp, before you ignore comments against Al Gore’s view points.
As to all of you who wanted me to post links backing the sun getting warmer, it’s called GOOGLE maybe if you guys used it you would be able to see for yourselves.
(Sorry for the late post and the confrontational attitude, I’ve had a few :)
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:44 am#71 Tundra, go to sleep, old man. You can do whatever you want to all the corpses of your disturbed imagination in your nice, tropical, relaxing dreams.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:50 amThats right Juan C, show how much you hate the vets who disagree with you politically.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:55 amThey’ve given their all to defend this nation, and from a person who knows Tundra, I can vouche he isn’t sitting pretty due to his service. You should be ashamed of yourself for baselessly attacking vets.
(Sorry for the late post and the confrontational attitude, I’ve had a few :)
Comment by squegeeboo — June 2, 2006 @ 12:44 am
NEVER apologize for having your game face on.
The problem with the democrats is we’ve got too many diplomats, and not enough Dartanians.
Never be sorry for taking it to the opposition. Because they’ll never be sorry for taking it to you.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:56 amIf drink makes you angry, maybe you shouldn’t drink, Squeegie.
I’m happy to accpet that sun’s variations cause variations everywhere else. And I haven’t read a single one of Al Gore’s viewpoints, I go to the basic source if I can: a politician is just a salesman these days.
OK, I’ll google monkey with you for a bit – I have a biography of a hero of mine, James Cook, to finish so I won’t hang about long. I tried ’sun heats up mars’ and I got this rebuttal for you at #5
Over to you…
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:57 am#83, So Squeegie, do you support people who disagree with you issuing death threats? This one’s a multi-choice – go.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:01 amThat I would like to have an answer to though. Cause Tundra clearly albiet cleverly crafted and posted a death threat, albeit most likely in jest. (although at the moment it was written, I wonder).
While you should never apologize in here for having your game face on, as and I think most in here respect that, I wonder if you’re comfortable with a death threat to a civillian from a US soldier.
After all, when they get done killing Iraqi’s over there, and get home, some of them might not be done killing yet, know what I mean?
And then they’ll be all out of Iraqi’s.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:05 amTerry
“So Squeegie, do you support people who disagree with you issuing death threats? This one’s a multi-choice – go.”
Tundra never did a death threat, he just implied he would like to mangle the body after death. Still sick, but not a death threat. In addition, from knowing Tundra, I know he wouldn’t hurt anything that didn’t threaten him or his child. So I can take it for the angry joke it was.
Heres my rebutal to your seasonal claim
Mars Emerging from Ice Age, Data Suggest
“a politician is just a salesman these days”
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:13 amCan I quote you on that one? It’s brilliant.
#87, I saw no evidence of jest in Tundra’s post and I don’t see any reason not to take him seriously and will treat other encounters with him on this site accordingly.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:13 am#82 Squegeboo, although I understand your concern cause I wouldnt like anyone to mock an unable, sick or person, I answer you this: Nobody has protected me by invading countries, organizing paramilitary ops, supporting dictatorship take overs. I wont be ever feel defended by someone who agrees with violence, just the opposite, I would be offended. I dont hate vets, I dont hate anybody, cause then I will have a reason for recruiting in the army.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:16 am#82 Squegeboo, although I understand your concern cause I wouldnt like anyone to mock a disable, sick or troubled person, I answer you this: Nobody has protected me by invading countries, organizing paramilitary ops, supporting dictatorship take overs. I wont be ever feel defended by someone who agrees with violence, just the opposite, I would be offended. I dont hate vets, I dont hate anybody, cause then I will have a reason for recruiting in the army.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:16 amsorry for repeating. What is a game face, Worfeus?
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:18 amJuan C.
Fair enough, allow me to apologize, like I said, I’ve had a few, and I don’t like it when people insult vets, or my friends(when its not warrented)
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:20 amEverything´s cool. Now…for you, why it is so hard to accept the human-made global warming?
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:25 am#88, OK Squeegie, I read down your post. I couldn’t find anything that suggested that recent apparent warming on Mars was related to sun power output. Your link suggested they didn’t know, end of an ice age maybe. Now my link, if you dug into the link behind the first about sun power output distinctly ruled out solar power output as being responsible for changes in Mars and they suspected the loss of the southern ice cap was a local effect and not a global trend, but again they were not sure:
There’s all that techno jargon you can read if you like too.
So back you go to Google and have another go. Or have a crack at mine. Anyway, James Cook is about to get his head bashed in Hawaii, I must go…
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:30 amRegardless of any discussion about solar irradiance in past centuries, the sunspot record and neutron monitor data (which can be compared with radionuclide records) show that solar activity has not increased since the 1950s and is therefore unlikely to be able to explain the recent warming.
Comment by TerrytheCensoredTurtle — June 2, 2006 @ 1:30 am
Squeegy the sun ain’t been putting out any more solar radation since the 1950’s so it don’t explain the heating of the earth like you implied it did..drink another beer and try again
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:35 am#80- No worries, Squegeeboo! :) If the Sun is getting warmer, (I am not disputing you on this,K?) then we really should not be adding to it, ‘down here’, when we can do something about it. I have respect for the Sun, my “Pacific Northwest Pallor” is scorched each summer, just gotta get that sunburn over with, then, we kiss and make up. Righties can be so “all or nothing”, ‘negative nan’s’, it is so depressing. And not helpful at all. Why are they like that? I think it is fear. They could make some money on this, if they weren’t so afraid. It is an investment, they love those.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:41 amOK,
If you want to call what I said a death threat, I can pull a hundred instances off this blog of people saying worse about our President and Vice president (We can roll with that one if you want it will be real easy and even more of a “legal” problem for those involved). Personally I think you are all cowards who have the balls to sit here and slam MEN and WOMEN who are out there doing what they signed up to do, based on a foreign politicians word. Having no true basis for your complete disregard for their rights as Americans. You sit here and claim your right to speech and slander. Personally I am appaled.
I have heard the claim that because they launched an investigation they are guilty. I have heard that because they removed the commanders they are guilty. Personally Slam the politicians all you want but when they want to control you I don’t want to hear you gripe.
I can handle any opposing opinion with ease. Especially when it comes to Abortion, Gun Control, Gay Marriage, education, Intillegent Design, but when you have the audacity to prosecute or use the very people that protect your freedoms with no clear proof as a talking point, I do Curse you!!
Pulling this card without a conviction is below Scum to me. Pull the Lindy tortue issue, Fine, Noted, Accepted. No gripes here. But to smack someone in the face who guards what you have is one of the most cowardly things I have seen. Do not have the hypocritical basis to dare demand “Proper procedure”. I dispise wire taps, but this kind of mentality (that you have says it’s OK) who need procedure.
Slam the troops based on media/foreign powers/your cousin etc but don’t expect the same courtesy from me. Spout your retoric use them but never ask them (or me) to watch over your sorry non serving ass.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:52 ammy daughter is still one of them
Yeah, I remember before the Tortue scandal was official, people had no names. Hmmmmm guys like you demonstrated women military members doing evil things. was she guilty, Yes convicted, yes. But freedom of press sure convicted everyone that looked even close (Hope your daughter isn’t a short brunett).
Glad to see the support of troops as long as a foreign power/media outlet doesn’t slam everyone like her.
if you do not like the truth GFUS
You GFUS, When I have it I will believe it (And sadly accept it if it is true. I will attribute it to what it is, not all troops). Based on a trial. I won’t prosecute our troops until it happens. With a daughter in the service you are sure happy to show how bad our soldiers are (FU). When you talk to her tell her I Trust her judgemant and believe what she is doing even though her father has the balls to slam nonamed soldiers.
I respected you more than you can imagine until today, because I spend alot of time with Veterans (As one). We hang our heads daily and call out the dead. We send supplies. We fight for health care. Noone wants this war, but you dare as a vet to undermine their focus. I say (FU)(FU)
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:12 am81,
#71 Tundra, go to sleep, old man
Well with your generalizations, I should say go back to Mexico.
I’m 31, you may call that old.
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:36 amI was in Egypt and Haiti. Personally I figured they should be able to kill each other, but some Yahoo figured it was a better idea to send me there. You didn’t hear about atrocities in those places because the press never bothered to show up (None I saw from our soldiers, but it was kind of neat after public opinion needed us there they “Forgot” to report the stoning of women and the fact we had to walk away during it for political reasons. I also don’t remember a reporter at the houses where 6 men were raping a 13 year old girl where we were ordered to stand down. I guess if we did react I would have been a war criminal to you ((Keep in mind they had weapons)) Best we walked away and I sleep with that every night, try it sometime)
88
Hey Turtle,
Gregor agrees with me that it wasn’t a death threat (Quite a few others too I posted a link for you) http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/10/murdering-border-crossers/#comments
“[T]he constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or regulate advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.†(…)
[Brandenburg v. Ohio] gave rise to the Brandenburg test to determine when speech transgresses the line from mere advocacy, which is protected by the First Amendment, to incitement, which is not. That test anticipates that the unprotected speech intentionally produce a high likelihood of real imminent harm.
First Amendment Center – The First Amendment & Advocacy of Violence: An Overview
The key words here are “likely to produce such actionâ€.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — April 11, 2006 @ 1:56 am
Take it as jest all you want, or don’t. Personally if your dead corpse was in front of me I would do what was legally required. Granted I may feel like doing other things to it, but I would do what is legally required (Feel better?)
P.S. that thread has alot on the opinion, almost like what I said was real tame. Glad to see your opinion then. Guess I can call on your help next time someone wants to “Shoot” an administration official in the face huh??
June 2nd, 2006 at 4:04 am79
But even with what this soldier writes nothing justifies shooting small children….
KK, So a young child is walking toward your unit, encased in explosives. You do what? Feel free to think of a response as much as you want it’s not like it’s a matter of life or death.
June 2nd, 2006 at 4:15 amThe real tragedy here is that those soldiers are also victims. The victims of BushCo’s stupidity arrogance, ignorance, and their refusal to acknowledge that their bad planning created this awful situation, and their refusal to do anything to fix it. Our soldiers have clearly come to the end of their sanity. Next stop, the deep end. How many people need to be destroyed, because of the whims of a spoiled brat? Or the greed of these evil people? ENOUGH!!! F*ck…
June 2nd, 2006 at 5:21 amNovak counseling Arnie: The blind leading the stupid.
Anyway, Paul Krugman has some words of tough love for the Man Who Would Be Treasury Secretary.
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:48 amAs to all of you who wanted me to post links backing the sun getting warmer, it’s called GOOGLE maybe if you guys used it you would be able to see for yourselves.
Comment by squegeeboo — June 2, 2006 @ 12:44 am
If google had produced anything valid, I wouldn’t have asked. But since google doesn’t know what any of youtakingthis stance are talking about, I thought I’d ask rather than call you names…
Again, I’ve reasearched it. The sun is burning itself out – makes it hardto logically believe that it is getting hotter over the long haul (kinda like expecting a campfire to burn hotter without added fuel).
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:56 amNext stop, the deep end. How many people need to be destroyed, because of the whims of a spoiled brat? Or the greed of these evil people? ENOUGH!!! F*ck…
Comment by Cyra Brown — June 2, 2006 @ 5:21 am
Well said! I second that… ENOUGH!!!
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:58 am[...] link Comments » [...]
June 2nd, 2006 at 8:13 amgoogle search: sun warming
A bunch of the first page results
“Hotter-burning sun warming the planet”
“Sun’s warming influence ‘under-estimated’”
“Sun’s warming is global:”
“The truth about global warming – it’s the Sun that’s to blame”
Not bothering with the links, beacuse TP is blocking me on at least one of them.
Unbelievable
June 2nd, 2006 at 8:53 am“The sun is burning itself out – makes it hardto logically believe that it is getting hotter over the long haul (kinda like expecting a campfire to burn hotter without added fuel).”
Campfires can burn hotter with out adding fuel, in the short term. The wood could dry out or as it burns down the coal bed could be exposed to a greater oxygen flow for two examples off the top of my mind.
Campfires can burn hotter with out adding fuel, in the short term. The wood could dry out or as it burns down the coal bed could be exposed to a greater oxygen flow for two examples off the top of my mind.
Comment by squegeeboo — June 2, 2006 @ 8:53 am
I said ‘valid’… you know – approved by a community of respected scientists? Most of that stuff is conjecture.
There is no oxygen in space – it is a vacuum. Therfore the sun has just the sun supplying itself with the hydrogen to burn.
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:31 amMommy! Mommy! Mommy!
Those will be Novak’s words on his death bed.
Comment by Iraqis, Mexicans, Whatever #4
You mean that bi*ch (NOVAK) ain’t DEAD yet?
So the Sun can increase Mar’s temp. but our increases arn’t related to the sun…..Sounds like there is some miscontrued facts or findings to make the Suns, Earths, and Mars temp. increases unrelated.
Comment by squegeeboo #17
queasybooger,
…perhaps taking a little field trip to your local chemical or other industrial manufacturing plant to look at the HUGE smokestacks and the billowing white smoke…
…might cause your totally incurious, dumb ass to ask some questions like…
…what’s in that smoke?
…where does it ALL go?
…is it possible that it could form a cover over our atmosphere?
…is it possible that that “cover” could trap the sun’s ultraviolet rays, thus raising the Earth’s atmospheric temperature?
…if the earth’s atmospheric temp rises what could happen to the polar ice caps, or the Earth’s weather patterns?
…take your time kid…
…STOP ingesting, digesting, and spewing all of the garbage the “reality creators” in your inbred sect…
…want you to believe…
…so they can continue to make a profit, at your (and the environment’s) expense…
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:40 amBob Novak is a proven liar.
End of discussion.
Except to say that there’s no reason the Sun can’t have cycles of burning warmer and cooler. It’s not a machine; it’s a system and like all systems has a natural static point that normally fluctuates. But until the Sun burns all its hydrogen and starts fusing helium, we’re not going to see any major changes in the Sun’s output. IIRC the Sun cools a bit during peak sunspot activity.
But this “argument” that since the Sun may be naturally getting warmer, we don’t need to worry is breathtakingly idiotic. If the Sun is indeed getting warmer, then that’s ALL THE MORE REASON FOR US TO TRIM OUR ATMOSPHERIC CARBON OUTPUT!!!! Not less of a reason!
Sheesh, this is what ou get when you don’t teach people critical thinking skills. They turn into Neocon Republicans.
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:45 amBut until the Sun burns all its hydrogen and starts fusing helium, we’re not going to see any major changes in the Sun’s output. IIRC the Sun cools a bit during peak sunspot activity.
Comment by ElectricBassPlayer — June 2, 2006 @ 9:45 am
Sure it has fluctuations. Solar flares will temporarily do that. It screws with our electronics, creates the auras, and affects the weather. Temporarily. But that’s not what the right fringe is suggesting. They are suggesting that the sun is getting hotter. It’s a decoy to avoid responsibility. And they should be verbally smacked for it.
When it starts fusing helium – it will be too late anyway – (supernova will wipe out the solar system for those who don’t know… relax… in 5.5 billion years).
June 2nd, 2006 at 10:27 am# 99. Not all Juan named people are from Mexico. I know I made a mistake by classifying you as an uptight vet…but what is with the corpses thing? Read some poetry and be happy, man. I know you were raised with NRA ideas, and that you believe that US forces are guarding your back from such evil creatures out there… well, let me tell you something. You and all of the war, any war, supporters have been lied and betrayed by Government interests. Poor, angry, with no opportunities kids are being sent to fight against other poor people, meanwhile cowards like GWB, Bin Laden, terrorist leaders, and politics are just making profits out of their blood. Security? Why US has a base in Guantanamo? Imagine a Cuban base in Kentucky? Security of what? You are the most fearing people in the whole world, no matter how much guns, Apaches, Tomahawks and NUkes you have.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:01 pmno matter how much guns, Apaches, Tomahawks and NUkes you have.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:04 pmComment by Juan C
how many…i meant. Goshhh!!!
#111 “When it starts fusing helium – it will be too late anyway – (supernova will wipe out the solar system for those who don’t know… relax… in 5.5 billion years).”
It won’t supernova until it reaches carbon. . . if I recall correctly. . . but you’re right, we will be long gone in one way or another before hydrogen ash (helium) starts cooking.
The the cycle will repeat, because we’re all made of blown-up stars in the first place. In my opinion, that is FAR more miraculous and wonderful than any bullshit religious God malarky.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:10 pmUhh, err, I mean, iron, not carbon. . . (face reddens)
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:11 pmIt won’t supernova until it reaches carbon. . . if I recall correctly. . . but you’re right, we will be long gone in one way or another before hydrogen ash (helium) starts cooking.
According to my sources – it will become a super giant (expand) when the hydrogen gets low, and then collapse, creating the super nova. I read that it doesn’t get hot enough to make more than carbon in the bang… But, like we said – by the time it expands, global warming will be a moot point…
The the cycle will repeat, because we’re all made of blown-up stars in the first place. In my opinion, that is FAR more miraculous and wonderful than any bullshit religious God malarky.
Comment by ElectricBassPlayer — June 2, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
Well said, and I agree. Way cooler than a god who goes ‘poof’. And people don’t seem to realize that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, but our solar system is only about 5 billion – therefore our system was created in the aftermath of a previous supernove of a star that was about 6-7 nillion years old. So much for a geocentric existence :)
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:45 pmUhh, err, I mean, iron, not carbon. . . (face reddens)
Comment by ElectricBassPlayer — June 2, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
There’s carbon in the space dust… :)
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:47 pmRant all you want Tundra I never said anyone is guilty but just like the marine in Okinowa who was just convicted in a court martial…each allegation should be FULLY investigated…and BTW the story about the Ambasador from Iraq has him making these remarks RIGHT AFTER he spoke directaly to Bush…might make you think he mentioned it to the president…and that George Bush might have told him that he would look into that
Blind loyality is why we are in Iraq…and why so many died in Vietnam… No Government or Branch of government deserves Blind loyality….Col. Hackworth was called a traitor during Vietnam but he proved to be the true patriot…scream herer all you wanb but I dio not accept the version that nothing bad has happened until the trial is over…and I hold the superiors and those who foisted this illegal war upon the troops…much more than I hold the troops responsibile…it is a shame just like Abu Ghraib….Bush Rummy and the Generals will blame a “few bad Apples” instead of clearing the messes they have made….
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:15 pmBTW Tundra with the top Brass saying 99.9% of soldiers are good…and almost 500,000troops having served in Iraq in one way or another…aren’t the brass saying the .1% of them are not good soldiers…that .1% being about 500 people?
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