Former 9/11 Commissioner slams Coulter.
By on Jun 9th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
Former 9/11 Commissioner slams Coulter.
Former Rep. Tim Roemer, a member of the commission that investigated the Sept. 11 attacks, called Ann Coulter’s “hate-filled attack on the patriotic heroes of 9/12 — the widows of 9/11 — reprehensible and undignified.” Roemer urged people not to buy her book. “Americans shouldn’t contribute to her profiting from these vicious remarks.”
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Business
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Education
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Global Warming
Health Care
Hoffman
Immigration
International Relations
Iraq
Justice
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Media
Military
O'Reilly
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Politics
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Tea Party
Terrorism
Veterans
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
I thought free speech was a big thing for you libs. Oh I forgot its free liberal speech.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:31 pmThe hypocrisy from the left never ceases to amaze me.
He should read the pages of TP talk about hate filled speech. Libs here are the biggest bunch of hateful bigots going.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:34 pmHate speech has never been a prog value, fool.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:35 pmI couldn’t agree more that Coulter’s remarks were crude and cruel. I simply hope there was as much outrage when left-wing catroonist Ted Rall and left-wing professor Ward Churchill made similarly offensive remarks.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:35 pmOn that note:
Be the first to read The Wounded-Courier, MediaBloodhound’s Fridays-only satirical news release:
Coulter Eats Newborn During Book Signing
http://www.mediabloodhound.com
June 9th, 2006 at 4:35 pmThe 9-1-1 commission member is a former Democratic Congressman form Indians,so we already know he is a COMMIE-PINKO,ANTI-AMERICAN SISSY! RIGHT!!
June 9th, 2006 at 4:36 pmMr. Troll:
I thought free speech was a big thing for you libs. Oh I forgot its free liberal speech
The guy called for not buying her book, it wasn’t about censorship.
He should read the pages of TP talk about hate filled speech. Libs here are the biggest bunch of hateful bigots going.
Comment by troll — June 9, 2006 @ 4:34 pm
Like many opinions, there is a sclice of truth. Yes their are some pretty hateful folks here, like everywhere. I can find many hateful folks in your camp too. That’s why these arguments are circular, they never stop, because both sides are correct to a point. Do you have any statements of substance? Or just the old circular talking points?
June 9th, 2006 at 4:39 pmMaybe I should write a book about how Jesus was a homosexual who preyed on young boys. Free Speech
June 9th, 2006 at 4:39 pmHi troll go back to redstate
June 9th, 2006 at 4:41 pmOr that artwork depicting a crusafix in a jar of urine, called “piss jesus”, that one really gets em’ going.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:42 pmFirst off, Coulter is right. Democrats can never win a debate on the merits, so they have to drag out some pathetic tragic figures who is beyond reproach to attack the President. No one ever bought the whole Bush could have stopped 9/11 crap so why not get Kristen Bitchweister to attack Bush and claim she voted for him.
But, the attacks on Coulter present a broader dilemma for Democrats. The political rhetoric and hatred that the left (including this site) has thrown for the past 18 months has not gone under the radar. The American people see it – they don’t like it, but they’re not happy with Bush so it’s a push. Now, they see the left trying to silence Ann Coulter and take away her right to free speech. That’s not gonna fly. It is igniting a fury among the right-wing base and we are ready for war with the left. AND we will win.
The left always makes the same mistakes. You blew your wad already. The culture of corruption is a sham – just ask Congresswoman Busby. Gas prices suck, but Americans reject the anti-business left. AND we are winning the war. Campaign season has started. Liberals beware. You have it coming.
You just better pray that John Paul Stevens and Ginsburg stay on that Court this summer. The left will lose everything they’ve gained if that happens. You will soundly lose another debate over the Supreme Court.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:42 pmSee a tongue-in-cheek visual depicting “The New War On Terror: Afgh-Ann-A-Skank”…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
June 9th, 2006 at 4:43 pmAnd if, according to you, Troll, Liberals are obliged to read a book that spouts hatred just because Coulter wrote it, then maybe you should read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Federalist papers? Or maybe even watch Michael Moore’s documentary on 911? How about listening to a little Air America, or even NPR or the BBC? Something other than Fox?
June 9th, 2006 at 4:44 pmWhen a fool writes a hate book, I believe we are free to not buy it. So far. Actually, I think that’s a really good idea, hit Coulter’s publishers in the pocketbook, and maybe NaziPress will find another kook to push.
Troll did you come to this thread to quickly pass gas and then leave the room, like a little boy does.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:44 pmThere is nothing against free speech in this statement by Roemer. If this was about free speech, Roemer would have asked for the book to be banned or taken off of the shelves. He simply suggested that folks vote with their dollar. If you do not agree with what someone says, don’t buy the book or turn the channel. That is how it works in America. So, I think that Roemer’s comments were well said and well within the bounds of free speech.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:44 pmActually Coulter is helping the left as very few can. Her hate filled views are turning people off all over the country… the more exposure she gets, the clearer her twisted mindset becomes, the more people get sick in their stomach of the GOP hate party.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:48 pmSo go, Coulter, go girl! Make more Dems for us.
Sullivan has the low-down on Coulter: cracking the da-bitchy code!
http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/06/cracking_the_da.html
Note the anecdote from the intern. I’m convinced she doesn’t believe half of what she spews. The problem, of course, is that a great many do. The fact that her book is at the top of Amazon is really troubling. Who buys this rubbish?
June 9th, 2006 at 4:51 pmMr. Loser Democrats,
The 9-11 widows must have struck a nerve with Menopausal Ann, because I haven’t seen or heard a peep from the widows lately, until Menopausal Ann had to bring it up. Maybe folks in NYC hear from the widows, but thats about it, your girlyman Ann brought it front and center.
And just because liberals don’t want people to buy her book, you think its a violation of free speech. But I’m not surprised you are having an anyerism over some conservtive revenue stream being possibly threatened.
No one’s going anywhere form the Supreme court this summer, sorry.
Can you provide examples of the dragging out of other pathetic figures beyond reproach?
Who’s more innapropriate, Ann’s words or the widow’s, its all up to opinion.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:52 pm#16 – you wish. The difference between the extreme right and left is that the left says things that most people don’t really think and the right says things that most people think, but are scared to say.
Case in point – Michael Moore. Most people don’t believe Bush knew about 9/11 or the Afghani war was to solidify US hold on a pipeline, but he says it anyway. On the other hand, Coulter’s attack on these media whores is spot on with what alot of people have been saying for years. But Republicans would never dare make such a remark.
Coulter is proving her point and laughing all the way to the bank. Hateful left meet hateful right. Hateful right BEAT hateful left. And with the govt firmly in GOP hands, I wonder who is winning?
June 9th, 2006 at 4:55 pmEven if Coulter is right, there is such thing as tactful delivery. If she was tactful, no one would hardly bother with her, the drama really pumps the ratings doesn’t it. Now if she can just learn where the line is, she won’t drive herself over the cliff.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:55 pm#18 – Cindy Sheehan. A woman who would lay on her son’s grave for a photo in Vanity Fair = PIG.
AND yes, there will be a retirement before Bush leaves office and a GOP Senate will confirm.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:57 pm#19:Loser- we are ALL losing with the government in the GOP’s hands. There’s no doubt about it.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:57 pmBest thing to do with Ann would be to marginalize her. Let her write her rants, etc. Just complain when she is on Fox or other networks being paraded out as a “journalist”. If the stations stopped giving her air time, the only ones who would get her message are idiots like #19. Is this censoring free speach? not really she is free to say what she wants, and I am free to respond.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:01 pmMr. Loser Dems.
Thank you for at least acknowledging both left and right have the hateful folks.
Case in point, the hateful arguments seem to get the most attention. If I started verbally abusing people, I bet I would get more responses. It seems reasonable discussion gets ignored in the face of the drama and hatefulness. Lets face it, people want the drama, even when they are “apalled” by it. Ann knows what she is doing. Oh yeah dont respond to this cuz you might have to be reasonable.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:01 pmCoulter once said, “My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.”
Yeah, that’s what everyone on the right thinks but is afraid to say alright. You can’t be serious Loser.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:03 pmMr. Loser Dem,
Is Cindy Sheehan really beyond reproach? Sure doesn’t seem that way, she has made herself fair game, and is treated as such. Anyone else?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:04 pmTo #13-Well at least you got your GOP talking points right!
June 9th, 2006 at 5:04 pmYou can always measure the pertinence and validity of a blog post by how quickly the trolls attack and then attempt to derail the thread. This post being a prime example.
Free speech is not the issue here, nor does the post purport in any manner to limit speech. What is being addressed is the content of what Coulter said. There is no call for Coulter to be censored. There is no one questioning Coulter’s right to say what she said.
The outrage is, once again, regarding what Coulter said. Every republican should be confronted as to whether Coulter is, in fact, speaking for them. If the answer is “yes”, then they deserve the indignation with which they will be viewed. If the answer is “no”, then the question is why aren’t they speaking out against what Coulter said or, is it their intent to just use Coulter’s hate speech only when it serves their purposes? Stated more simply, does Coulter speak for republicans or do you plan to just use Coulter when it’s convenient, like a whore?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:05 pmHow can you tell when a troll doesn’t have any workable argument? They ignore the question and BMW (b!t*#, moan and wail) about things that have nothing to do with the argument.
It’s gonna be really funny when the Republicans lose seats this coming November. On November 8th, the Republicans will be crying “What did we do wrong?!?! Why did we lose seats?!?” They should be asking a simpler question: name something they did right?
Higher debt. Jobs pay less than in the 90’s. Deficits forever. Bigger government. Less states rights. More corruption.
Oh yeah. The Republicans are doing a heck of a job!
By the way, the only censorship happening is from the right wing over average Americans. Ann Coulter just can’t keep her feet out of her mouth and can’t stop slandering everyone. She’s a harpy that cant vote in the right place, illegally took tax exemptions she wasn’t available to take, and lies when the argument doesn’t go her way. She’s a perfect example of a current day Republican.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:06 pmMr. Loser Dem,
We shall see if any of our Supreme Bench Warmers are leaving this summer. Fair enough?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:06 pmLoser Democrats #11, The truth of the matter is the in arguments its the republicans that can’t hold their water so they always personally attack the the debater. We saw this with Coulter when she accused Lauer of getting testy with her. Stopped the point, which she was loosing and changed the direction of the conversation. Problem is that’s all you have and we have seen the same game for the past 6 years now. Another example, Tom Delay, attacking liberals yesterday as he prepares to go to jail shortly after he looses his trial. The liberals had nothing to do with his lack of integrity or ethics that will send him packing, those are his issues, face the truth for a change. Bottom line, the public now sees through this child like reaction and they are tired of empty arguments that present no thoughtful response to the points pressed by the opposing debater.
Coulter is right in there with Rush, O’Reilly, and others of the same ilk. The have nothing constructive to offer so the relie on cheap over dramatization and bad taste to bring attention to themself. They are merely bad entertainers not journalists, they present no facts that are unbiased. They are not even considered a talk show hosts compared to the likes of Larry King. If Coulter fell off the air tomorrow, no one would even miss her.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:06 pmLiberals just like to kill humans, remember. Its just logic
June 9th, 2006 at 5:07 pmI think its funny that mAnn Coulter screams that these women are making money off of 9/11 and how they are media whores. I wonder how many times mAnn refers to 9/11 in her books. Ya know, the ones that make her money. And if she doesn’t think that she is the worst at selling her self on TV to promote her own personal agenda then she is nuts…….wait, she is. Ah, that explains it. Those wives actually got the US government to get off their a**es and do something. More than mAnn has ever done in her pathetic existence.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:08 pmMaybe I should write a book about how Jesus was a homosexual who preyed on young boys. Free Speech
Comment by jones — June 9, 2006 @ 4:39 pm
Let me know when your book goes on sale. I’m interested in purchasing it. Oh, wasn’t there a movie that displayed Jesus as a homosexual or am I thinking about “The Last Temptation of Christ”? Didn’t see that movie although many American Taliban got their knickers in a knot about that movie.
Another thought – since Ann Coulter is a public figure, maybe someone should write a book about her sex change.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:09 pm#4 Exley,
I beleive their was similar outrage to the Little Eichmann’s reference, I think the professor even recently lost his job, fair enough?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:09 pm#32 – Just like Pres. Bush likes to kill our American soldiers. It’s not just the truth, it’s a proven fact.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:09 pmThis is just what the confusion of entertainment as news gets us.
Before she became infamous, I once had a delightful chat with the woman who went on to become Ann Coulter connoisseur of fresh puppy’s blood.
Her whole rant is such disingenuous BS she should be proclaimed the heir to Don Rickels not some serious political mind.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:12 pmMoreover, she would be wise to avoid appearing without benefit of a laugh track and xxx rating .
#4: As if Ward Churchill was on the Today Show and Larry King and Hannity and Colmes and Scarborough Country allllllllllll the time.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:15 pm#11 – Loser Democrat
You better pray that this country turns around and stops heading in the neocon direction or else we will become just like the former USSR – a totalitarian state and you and Ann Coulter and everyone else will not be able to speak freely. This country is headed that way. If the left loses their freedoms, so does the right. The demogogs that run this nation don’t give a rat’s ass about you and all the other right wingers. Wake up and sign up for Iraq. After all, your great leader “the Decider” said it is worth the sacrifice and if you are visiting this website then you are not following your leader’s advice. Sign up today.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:16 pmI’m pretty sure Coulter’s $$$$$$$ comes straight from the White House-not the book.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:16 pmI have got to re-visit the humor in Troll’s assertion that Liberals are trying to suppress Ann’s free speech. That was a stretch. It’s funny that whenever I post on the conservative blogs, in the same manner I post here, they delete it. I don’t violate the rules, just post my opinions and some facts. Who is suppressing free speech?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:17 pmI think the trolls are done feeding here, they have left.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:19 pmRep. Tim Roemer the Democrat.
Why wouldn’t TP mention that Roemer is a Democrat?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:22 pmTim…she is just very afraid of everything. Poor woman.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:23 pmMy son-in-law’s brother died in the WTC. He worked for Cantor-Fitzgerald for 2 weeks. He was only 24 years old.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:24 pmI wish that bitch would take her evil venom and spew it everywhere so ALL of the country and the world will see what a Neocon really represents.
All of the people she has offended WERE republicans. But not now.
I only wish she were in Tower 2 instead of Doug.
#43,
Jeb,
Because it makes it too easy for trolls to dismiss any crediblity.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:24 pm#1 Troll doesn’t get it.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:24 pmWe still have freedom of speech in America, hence the venomous Coulter and her ilk. We denounce it, we discourage the purchasing of her book, but no one has asked that she be silenced. That’s what Republicans do – silence the opposition.
In fact, when Coulter spews her hatred, she is likely counterproductive insofar as reasonable conservatives listening to her might be repulsed.
She appeals to the base element of her party – they can have her, but we wouldn’t deprive any American of freedom of speech.
#17
If Ann Coulter is only being outrageously hateful just for the money, then that’s even worse then doing it because she believes in what she says. Take a close look at her face and it is evident that she never really smiles… just puts on fake smiles. Guess all her money doesn’t bring her love and happiness.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:25 pmBest thing to do, would be to make sure to link coulter to the republican party in the minds of moderates, and undecideds everywhere. If people are turned off by hate, she will drive replicans away from that party in droves.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:27 pmA three year old entered the house the other day and as he entered, he giggled and announced “I just farted.” I think that’s about the mental age of troll, and similar behavior. He just comes in and drops a stinky bomb.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:29 pm#43,
The reason, I would think, that TP did not mention that Roemer is a Democrat is because this is NOT a political issue and it is completely irrelevant. Are you suggesting that when one individual speaks out about another individual’s morally contemptible actions that it matters in the least what “party” they belong to? Is your brain really that miniscule?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:33 pmHeyyyy, I just posted a comment on a Conservative Blog and it told me that it will be reviewed and then probably accepted…who was the conservative asshole that talked about freedom of speech?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:37 pmTannen,
How sad and how painful. I only wish 9/11 never happened and that Bush had read the August 6 memo and DONE SOMETHING instead of playing gulf and photo ops.
One cannot get any lower than attacking someone that lost the person they loved. It’s a new low point for Ann Coulter.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:39 pm#53
she could sodomize cindy sheehan, while giving a speech on the white house lawn about gays.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:42 pm“Maybe I should write a book about how Jesus was a homosexual who preyed on young boys. Free Speech”
Yes, sure, why not? As long as it is well written. And in the end it does not matter how one treats a fictional character, anyway.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:44 pmI thought free speech was a big thing for you libs. Oh I forgot its free liberal speech.
The hypocrisy from the left never ceases to amaze me.
Comment by troll —
To Troll and other rightwingers,
June 9th, 2006 at 5:47 pmUnlike Ann-thrax Coulter, who has boasted at one of her $30,000 speeches that she is no fan of the First Amendment, we liberals/progressives do believe in free speech. But, in the first place, who is Ann-thrax Coulter to criticize others for becoming millionaires off their celebrity? Secondly, there is a point where free speech gets liberlous, and I’m frankly surprised no one has sued Ms/Mr Coulter so far for some of her outrageous statements. Maybe she will go to jail first for voter fraud in Palm Beach, Florida.
As for Ward Churchill, I don’t recall prominent liberals defending his outrageous statements nor his appearance on several mainstream talk shows
Is your brain really that miniscule?
Ann Coulter’s style is trendy…
June 9th, 2006 at 5:53 pmI don’t know about you guys but I never even heard of Ward Churchill before conservatives started trotting his name out on their own shows.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:54 pmWell, Ann…I’ve never seen anyone enjoying the deaths of American soldiers so much as when Bush leans forward towards the camera and smiles when talking about those deaths on TV.
I’ve never seen anyone enjoying himself so much as Bush does when he laughs in the face of the American people, denies that he laughed, and then says they are “disturbed” when explaining Americans’ distaste for the Iraq war.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:55 pm#58
I’d never heard of the name Ward Churchill before trolls posted it here on TP! I’ll Google him later. Well, not him…his name.
June 9th, 2006 at 5:58 pm“I thought free speech was a big thing for you libs. Oh I forgot its free liberal speech.”
Wait … is some mean “liberal” physically preventing you from posting your semi-literate screeds?
Ah. Didn’t think so.
No, I think BOTH sides are FREE to be as snarky as we want about the other side. Our being snarky isn’t inhibiting your free speech, dearie, it’s just commenting on what you’re speaking. Two different things. No?
I will continue to joyfully embrace my FREEDOM to say exactly what I think about Mann Coulter and her slobberings. Oddly enough, though I think he fails to share our mutual enthusiasm for that freedom. Is that irony, or just Alanis Morrissette irony?
June 9th, 2006 at 5:59 pmWard Churchill was/is a professor at I think University of Colorado. He made some statements after 9/11 to the effect that the US either deserved the attack, or something similar. He was trotted out by the right wing to show how all liberals hate the US etc….
June 9th, 2006 at 6:01 pm#57,
If you are attempting to imply that I am adopting Coulter’s style then allow me a moment to laugh hysterically at the absurdity.
(moment)
Okay. Now, #57, if I were to adopt Coulter’s style, my comment to you would have been:
OBGYN’s are doctors who couldn’t quite cut it in medical school, kind of like dentists, so that had to downgrade their speciality to the lowest form of doctor, the one who has to stick their faces into smelly and disease infested snatches all day. And obviously, sir, you are getting high on the fumes.
Can you see the difference, #57?
June 9th, 2006 at 6:01 pmRegarding comment #1: Roemer’s not saying “burn her book” he’s saying “don’t buy her book.” If you can’t understand the difference, I feel sorry for you. If you understand but you’re dishonest enough to post that remark anyway, then I feel even worse for you; what a sad life you must have.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:02 pmFunny how this thread starts with comments from a troll blathering about free speech, despite the fact that said troll is here to disparage people who do not share their idiotic worldview. Could it be we have blessed with a visit from the Coulter or just one of her apologists?
June 9th, 2006 at 6:06 pmI have long suspected Ann Coulter does not believe half of the hateful, vile spew she belches in her columns and on the air during her interviews. My suspicion is that her political leanings are defintely towards the right, but that hers is essentially an act, a fake persona, an alter ego.
Ann discovered she could make a good living writing, speaking, and giving interviews, during the Clinton years while she was “advising” Paula Jones -the very one Coulter would later call “trailer-park trash”.
Ever since those days, Coulter has been busy bringing out the worst in her followers, whiping them into frenzy, in order to curry favor with her political mentors and financial backers. Coulter is useful to the American financial and political elites because she keeps the masses toeing the “conservative” line.
I can only laugh at the conservative sheep who think Coulter is a fellow conservative. She is only another one of the many “opiniotainers” that FauxNews has managed to pass as opinion or news.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:06 pmOh no ! some liberal democrat and no less than slimy rahm emmanual are criticizing Coulter. Oh no.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:11 pmand no the big injun churchill has not lost his job yet.they are discussing it in the peoples republic of Boulder. That steaming cesspool of political correctness only defends free speech when it suits them. I am disgusted by what you leftards write here. you all make me want to puke. You cannot dispute that what Ann Coulter says is wrong so you go for the five year old typical liberal attacks. where do you people learn all this stuff? The Michael Moore charm and cooking school? Or maybe the Ted kennedy school of ehtics and swimming?
All you can yell is Hitler, Hitler, Hitler with a smattering of anti white and anti God commentary. Yeah keep wondering why folks like Rush and Hannity and Savage and Coulter have such a following and the best ratings in this country. It is because left wingnuts like the ones who post here write and maybe even believe the crap and hate they write on sites like this. The further you all try to suck the life of this country to the left fringe the further right folks who love this country and will not stand for the liberal/socialist/progressive pull to the right and try and fight you. We will never sacrifice America to the left EVER.
Wow who let in the wingnut?
June 9th, 2006 at 6:13 pmWard Churchill was a University of Colorado professor who described the bankers and stock traders who died in the World Trade Center as “little Eichmanns.” He called their deaths a “penalty befitting their participation in . . . the ‘mighty engine of profit’ to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved.”
Now I would hope everyone here would say those remarks are pretty vile too
June 9th, 2006 at 6:14 pmInteresting side note:
the posts by progressives contain mostly general thoughts, and some ad hominem attacks.
The posts be regressives contain rants, hate, libel, and all sorts of other goodies.
Question is: who is truly the hateful ones?
PS I wonder if Chris here is the same one refrenced on the DU website in thier thread about Coulter?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/BobcatJH/84
link above scroll down looking for the his blog link if interested.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:20 pmExley,
I agree wholeheartedly that Mr. Churchills comments are inflamatory and inappropriate, at least the “sound bite” that you provided. I would be interested in seeing the context in which it was used so as to be able to make an informed assessment and would appreciate a link to the unedited text if anyone has such.
With that said, my question to you is what is your opinion of what Coulter said, specifically.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:21 pmProbably one of the few things we agree on Exley. Although I doubt you agree to the vileness of Ann Coulter’s writing.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:22 pmThat’s not true. Read were I wrote at Post #4. I call Coulter’s remarks crude and cruel.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:24 pmThat’s not true. Read what I wrote at Post #4. I call Coulter’s remarks crude and cruel.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:25 pmMy apologies Exley. I knew about Churchill, but I didn’t hear anything about Rall. I know he is no fan of the Bush admin though.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:28 pmExley,
Only “crude” and “cruel”? Coulter calls the widows, widowers, and families of the victims of 9/11 opportunists and exploiters and claims that they are HAPPY about the loss of loved ones and all you say is basically that “gee, maybe she was being a bit mean?”
So then, that begs the next question: Removing the tone of Coulter’s comments, do you agree with the content of what she said?
June 9th, 2006 at 6:32 pmWard for President in 08!
June 9th, 2006 at 6:33 pmThe people to throw the first “stone” of people saying hateful things, are always the right wing extremists and trolls, who have learned that this is mature and acceptable behavior, from the Bush administration and their talk radio and cable news network parrots.
These are the people who feel personally threatened because they know that even though their heroes in the Bush administration have championed hatred and divisiveness (look it up), it is generally immature, unacceptable behavior generally left to the least educated, most socially isolated, backwoods types, and behavior that will end up going back into the closet when the Bush Republicans are finally flushed out of Congress and sent up the river to do time.
I mean, when Bush and Cheney are gone, and civility and maturity return to our country, Coulter’s audience will dwindle even further, her contracts will be severed, and she will be left writing her hateful screeds from her own mother’s basement apartment by hand, having to photocopy and then paste them up on lightposts in the city, where only the bored and homeless will bother with them.
I’m just calling a kook a kook. You don’t even have to be as smart as Bush to see it.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:35 pmNo apologies necessary. Rall produced a cartoon titled “The Terror Widows.”
You can see a copy here:
http://cellar.org/iotd.php?threadid=1161
June 9th, 2006 at 6:35 pmRall is basically saying the same thing as coulter in that cartoon.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:38 pmI am not sure I can expand on “crude” and “cruel,” Humanist. I am not certain what you are asking. Do I think the 9/11 widows, widowers, sons, daughters, etc. are “happy” or enjoying their loved one’s deaths? Of course not. It is a horrible thing to say — even twisted. Do I think the familes of 9/11 victims have a right to their opinion whether they support the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Of course I do.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:47 pmI am not sure I can expand on “crude” and “cruel,” Humanist. I am not certain what you are asking. Do I think the 9/11 widows, widowers, sons, daughters, etc. are “happy” or enjoying their loved one’s deaths? Of course not. It is a horrible thing to say — even twisted. Do I think the familes of 9/11 victims have a right to their opinion whether or not they support the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Of course I do.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:48 pmI think the other issue is why the MSM allows over-the-top hate peddlers like Coulter air time while denying the other side equal time? When was the last time you saw Michael Moore or Noam Chomsky on CNN or the Today Show – who are tame by comparison and do not generalize or promote hatred the way Coulter does – yet they energize the left the way Coulter energizes the right? There’s a double standard being played here big time.
June 9th, 2006 at 6:52 pmComment by Krazny — June 9, 2006 @ 6:38 pm
Rall is basically saying the same thing as coulter in that cartoon.
I agree..And both are equally vile. Maybe Coulter and Rall should get together for drinks.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:01 pm“The further you all try to suck the life of this country to the left fringe the further right folks who love this country and will not stand for the liberal/socialist/progressive pull to the right and try and fight you. We will never sacrifice America to the left EVER.”
Another proud semi-literate rep for the far right.
Sigh. Let me re-state the obvious: LEFT, RIGHT, IT’S ALL AMERICA.
OK?
June 9th, 2006 at 7:04 pmShe only says these things to sell books. And the more we talk about it, the more press she gets. And of course, being the sensitive people we are – we HAVE to talk about it, to defend the people. And because we’re fighting for something to stand up for, we also have to talk about it.
But it will just sell her more books.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:07 pm# 83 Good point! Of course, and it happens everywhere. You just have to put on and on the same fear-and-hate-everybody propaganda (because, you know, to ask for alternative ways of doing things is for sissies) in the media. It is the same source of GWB lethargic, stupid speech: “Terrorists are evil, we are good”. They do not allow anyone to dissent or to show regret for the war. They are scared and fear turn people violent.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:07 pmNazi propaganda was very pragmatic. It only acquired its philosophy (Hegel, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and Kant) after it was already in the government. Hitler just picked up the anger and resentment of the germans after loosing WWI and the signature of Versailles Treatises. They told the germans, and he believed too, that they were destined to be leaders, that the real important human values were sacrifice and determination. Nazis, fascists and right wingers philosophy is non existent: it is the political expression of angry, sad and defeated people.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:15 pmWould Ann Coulter have trashed the widows of WWII soldiers who died in service to their country? These may not have been soldiers who died, but these people did die during war time in our country. I think it’s just common decency to not trash the widows of 9/11. Those who defend Ann Coulter here are as bad as she is. Buy her book, don’t buy her book — neither is the issue. Respect is the issue, and Ann Coulter shows none for the widows. And that in and of itself is shameful.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:26 pmWay to go Timmy. Coulter should be trashed for this. Look at what the right did to Ward Churchill. I think we should start some real anti-Coulter happenings. You know, hack her website, burn her book publicly, jeer her at public appearances. How about that? Who is with me!!??
http://www.lcoliberal.blogspot.com
AN OUTRIGHT THREAT AGAINST ANN COULTER. WILL YOU JOIN LCL?
Only on LCL
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
June 9th, 2006 at 7:31 pmWAS ZARQAWI MURDERED BY U.S TROOPS AFTER HE SURVIVIED THE “FATAL” BOMBING? OR WAS HE A CREATION OF THE BUSH ADMIN.? GIVE US YOUR OPINIONS.
Only on SSA
Exley,
You answered my question completely in that I see now that you disagree not just with Coulter’s tone and style (or lack thereof), but also Coulter’s position regarding the 9/11 widows.
In regard to Coulter’s position that liberals are godless, do you agree with that or do you find that equally baseless and assinine?
June 9th, 2006 at 7:33 pmHumanist,
To be honest, I don’t spend that much time reading Coulter (in fact, none at all), so I don’t even know what she means if she is saying liberals are “godless.” If by that she means that it is absurd for courts to rule the having school children recite the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because it contains the term “under God,” then yes, I would agree with her on that point. If she is saying that there are no religious liberals, then I would disagree with that. As the cliche goes, some of my best friends are liberals (Although come to think of it, they are all atheists, as well…) But I am sure that is not the universal pattern.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:42 pmIt is really amazing how Ann Coulter displays in person the transformative powers of Christ’s love.
-GSD
June 9th, 2006 at 7:46 pmKrazny – i thought you let yourself in eh? who you callin wingnut- wingnut. you leftards have no intelligence and no argument . It looks like liberal romper room is in session.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:47 pmnothing Ann Coulter said is wrong. if you think what she said is wrong _PROVE IT MORONS.
Let them buy her book, then they’ll see what a fraulein NAZI she is.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:59 pmShe can sell books on their missory and the media sells it.
WHY? What price did she pay too attack them?
WTF has she ever done for this country???
#94 Prove that the 9/11 widows are not enjoying their husbands’ deaths? What, praytell, is your standard of proof there?
June 9th, 2006 at 8:01 pmWell Exley, I am pleased to have had a civil conversation with you on this subject. Obviously it was not a “debate” as we are in agreement. If Americans can return to the practice of having reasoned discussions about political and social issues, then you all might just have a chance. Unfortunately, the debate structure that exists now in America is such that it does not matter how valid your position or argument is, but rather its all based on what political party you belong to or what label can be pinned on you.
I give you all a 50-50 chance of making it. Sadly, 10 years ago it would have been 90-10, but at least there is hope.
Thank you all who participated in the civilized discussion including, of course, Exley. For those who came in just to insult and name-call and just be a general nuisance in the name of party support, may you find peace and may you be granted or obtain the strength to overcome the insecurities that cause you to be so hateful.
Onward.
June 9th, 2006 at 8:04 pmThank you, Humanist. I appreciate those sentiments. Now, if you excuse me, it is Friday night and I am going out for a drink. Good night all.
June 9th, 2006 at 8:15 pmHow come the pukes want to “clean up” the TV but they pay for the likes of this “free speakin witch”?
June 9th, 2006 at 8:39 pmMight be a diversion.
Troll–re #1–so the objective investigators of the 9/11 shouldn’t have the right to point out what a twat Ms. Coulter is? You people disgust ME!
June 9th, 2006 at 8:51 pmPutting the Fun back in religious fundamentalism.
June 9th, 2006 at 8:53 pmthought free speech was a big thing for you libs. Oh I forgot its free liberal speech.
The hypocrisy from the left never ceases to amaze me.
Comment by troll — June 9, 2006 @
Troll your a moron. Nobody stopped the sale of MAnnes Book. No one made her edit the pages.
Now if we speak out against Anne, isn’t that Free Speech to Say that MAnne Coulter is a Transvestite? or a man in Drag?
Seems to me TROLL, when we say Manne is an ignorant slut, you think that means that some are against free speech.
Why Not Troll, It’s just the opposite.
You are pissed off, now, because we are speaking freely about Manne Coulter =)
So either take a crap, or get off the pot, cause your stinking up the place with your greasy methane spewage.
LMAO @ Troll and the Free Speech Angle.
Surely, a professional Troll, such as yourself, can do much better.
Truly, I am shocked at the level of Trolls we get here, are you the BEST TROLL they got Troll?
Tell em to send your backup Troll because you are one lame sumbeech.
Jeezus what a pathetic Troll.
June 9th, 2006 at 9:21 pmAnne Coulter, as you have slandered those for no reason other than having innocent loved ones killed, by no fault of their own, you should be aware that these folks have the right to ask, or pray for your political and financial demise.
I would not want to be you Anne cuz there is a boatload of bad juju coming your way.
And not from me. =)
June 9th, 2006 at 9:38 pmOn the House floor Thursday, Democratic Congressman Rahm Emmanuel threw down the gauntlet and challenged his GOP colleagues to repudiate the bilious words of Ann Coulter. But as should be clear by now, they simply can’t. Whether the issue concerns gay Americans, 9/11, abortion, judicial appointments or political corruption, a seamless continuum of hate runs from today’s governing conservatism through to its most extreme proponents. And that means the Congressional GOP differs only in degree – not in kind – from the cartoonish and sometimes criminal likes of Ann Coulter, Fred Phelps or Eric Rudolph.
For the full story, see:
June 9th, 2006 at 9:49 pm“Ann Coulter and Conservatism’s Continuum of Hate”
No pork they can say what they want, they should however be intellectually honest. Liberals are just as guilty of the heated rhetoric though they like to pretend they hold the moral high ground. Coulters tone reflects the tone of American political discourse and society at large which is sad and frightning. I personally believe it is a precursor to a major meltdown of civilization as we know it. The hate and selfishness which is predominate promise to destroy our will to fight for right and good and instead we fight for what is right and good for me.
Moral plurality in society is untenable. We have made it thus far in spite of ourselves as a result of our common religious heritage. If we do not find common ground again Western Civilization and maybe all of Humanity will either self destruct or we will be subject to Islamic law because we cant handle freedom.
June 9th, 2006 at 9:50 pmKrazny – i thought you let yourself in eh? who you callin wingnut- wingnut. you leftards have no intelligence and no argument . It looks like liberal romper room is in session.
nothing Ann Coulter said is wrong. if you think what she said is wrong _PROVE IT MORONS.
blah blah blah
Comment by Chris — June 9, 2006 @ 7:47 pm
Jeez dude if you going to post here, at least come up with some new material, this is the shit poeple like you have been posting since 2004.
June 9th, 2006 at 9:59 pmWestern Civilization and maybe all of Humanity will either self destruct or we will be subject to Islamic law because we cant handle freedom.
Comment by troll — June 9, 2006 @ 9:50 pm
Sorry troll I think that statement is the biggest turd I have heard in a while. Society changes and evolves, I know not a popular word with the wingnuts but I said it. We won’t be collapse, and the chances of forced conversion to Islam is umm well pretty remote. There aren’t enough muslims in the world to enforce a forced conversion to Islam. If you think that they will suddenly have more kids, and in 300 years have a larger population, don’t worry. The Latinos are solidly catholic, and doing well.
June 9th, 2006 at 10:03 pmEVERYONE KNOWS THAT IF “THE JERSERY GIRLS” WERE PRO-BUSH Ms(?) COULTER WOULD BE PRAISING THEIR PATRIOTISM.THE RGHT IS FULL OF HATEFUL FASCISTS!
June 9th, 2006 at 11:39 pmTroll, your first half of post 105 sounds somewhat reasonable, but then ya lost me about the Islam law thing. How would you propose the Muslims are gonna take over.
June 9th, 2006 at 11:44 pmMoral plurality in society is untenable. We have made it thus far in spite of ourselves as a result of our common religious heritage. If we do not find common ground again Western Civilization and maybe all of Humanity will either self destruct or we will be subject to Islamic law because we cant handle freedom.
Comment by troll
Troll has gone from Free speech to Islamic rule in America.
Troll that has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
I know Musllims, and I have worked with them, FYI Iwas born in America, and I’m white. If that means anything…
Yet you fear, with our billions iin technical warfare, that the muslims wil invade America??
Did flying airplanes into the WTC TROLL, make America a Muslim nation?
No TROLL, NO.
You havr typed a grandiose set of words, yet in the end it can be summed up simply.
You are against Freedom.
Sure you make a great hermeneutic spiel, yet this s but fear factor.
June 9th, 2006 at 11:45 pmI am not scared, you apparently are a paranoid wacko.
Why do you fear? Fear is for wimps. Are you a wimp?
Do you think our troops are wimps?
Why are you so negative?
TROLL you have a better chance of being run over by a drunlk thab being shot by a terrust.
Please stop your fear factor BS, I aint buying it, and really I think you don’t buy it.
So Troll have you served yet?
Have you signed up for war?
Why Not?
scared?
Of course you are JUDY MILLER.
By the way. Guess what political party held a griefferazzi fest with 3 widows of 9/11 victims?
Hmmmmm……Let’s see…..
Money quote:
“New York, NY, Aug. 30 (UPI) — There was not a dry eye to be found in New York’s cavernous Madison Square Garden after surviving relatives of three Americans killed on Sept. 11, 2001, addressed the delegates as part of the conventions “A Nation of Courage” Monday night program.”
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040830-113530-6195r.htm
-GSD
June 10th, 2006 at 12:01 amI would suggest, that anytime Ann Coulter, the voice of the Republican Party, is being discussed, everyone should attach “voice of the Republican Party”, to her name.
For Example, The voice of the Republican Party, Ann Coulter, has alot of balls, to call New Yorkers cowards.
June 10th, 2006 at 12:12 amI was listening to an interview of Mz Coulter with Michael Reagan, the Other Voice of the Republican Party [tm] and apparently we think we’re gods when we talk, and if only we’d stop hiding behind our war heros and allow them to express their opinion, boy then they’d show us!
Also they don’t like being called chickenhawks. That was the other basic jist nt of the interview.
June 10th, 2006 at 12:29 amIf they do not like being called a chicken-hawk…they should not act like one….
June 10th, 2006 at 3:08 amI think Ann Coulter should get as much airtime as can be arranged. If enough ‘T.V.’ viewers are able to hear her slander the 9/11 widows, over and over again, maybe it will finally sink in. As well as all the other ‘charming’ things she has to say. She is her own worst enemy. Let her ‘rip’.
#67- No, the ‘Right’ won’t “sacrifice” America, but they WILL sell it off, piece by piece, for the ‘right’ money, no matter where it’s coming from. Or who.
June 10th, 2006 at 4:24 amI posted this on the Ann Coulter thread, it fits here too, though I have added bits.
Here is a reasonable means of arguing:
Show how the Widows are wrong. Don’t attack the widows attack their opinions, and use logic and factual evidence to back your arguments. There is nothing wrong with that, you don’t get called callous for doing that. This is actually not special treatment we want just for the widows, it is how we should be treating each other anyway.
Of course, what is the right without martyrdom and Ad Hominem? When last did you hear the rightwing argue something on its merits, rather then just slime the opposition? This is why we on the left don’t even really try anymore, all we get is called weak, “Girly Men” who suffer from having limp wrists and even limper dicks. If the Right doesn’t like how the left has decided to call them arseholes, it is kind of due to nothing short of that seeming to get through.
Calling the widows “The Witches of East Brunswick†is not a reasonable argument. It is not even an argument, it is just a schoolyard taunt. We don’t appreciate people taunting the bereaved, mocking them and sullying their names simply for the sake of selling the shock value.
To those of you who claim she has a point due to the violent Leftwing reaction, your point is bullshit, if I called you a 3 cent whore whose only major benefit to humanity would be your death, you would be pissed off, its the same basic thing.
June 10th, 2006 at 7:40 amIf I claimed that you were happy about the death of a loved one, and really cashing in on it, you would be pissed off, and that is exactly what Ann is accusing these widows of.
If I then went on to use the death of your loved one in order to make a quick buck while celebrating the death of your loved one, you would really get pissed off. That is exactly what Ann Coulter is doing.
It isn’t a case of making a point, it is a case of there being limits to what can be taken in common decency, unless you are Ann Coulter of course.
Krazny
Aren’t enough muslims? 1/5 of humanity are muslim and it is the fastest growing religion on earth. The only hope we have is that they destroy each other first or they give us a reason to annihilate their asses. Wait till Iran gets nukes then the shit will hit the fan. You guys are too busy labeling me a religious right winger to hear this. But let me state clearly, I am by no means a christian fundementalist. I think it is obvious that a major clash of civilazations is inevitable. If it happens later rather than sooner Europe, Africa and most of Southeast Asia and the Pacific rim wil be lost to Islam and Canada will most likely as well. What will be left is a struggle between the Chicoms, the Muslims and whatever the US, central America and south America ends up as.
You do not understand Islam. You buy the crap the MSM want you to believe that Islam is about peace. That peace is only extended to other Muslims (alegedly). By extention for pragmatic reasons the first terrorist Mohamad made peace with Chritians and Jews (alegedly) as “People of the Book”. Many of you are by every definition “infidels” and according to the Koran infidels are not worthy of life. Muslims are to conquer the world and according to the Koran may use whatever means are available.
What can we do to stop this catastrophe? Help Muslims achieve democracy and prosperity. with that education will follow. Free, prosperous and educated people reject fundementalism. Our only other option is surrender and hope that in a century or two Islam moderates and humanity can know liberty again.
While he could never admit this as a policy I think President Bush understands he has a vital role to play in the preservation of Western civilization from Islam. We must help liberate Muslims from Islam for their sake and for ours. Iraq was an open door as a result of their noncompliance with the terms of surrender from the 1st gulf war. Wether you like it or not Saddam himself said he had WMDs and he played stupid games to ty to stay strong man on the block, games that invited an attack from US.
Have I served? No I was a peace lovin hippie for too long before I grew up and realized 1) It’s a dangerous world and people want to kill us because we stand in the way i.e. Islam and communism 2) We have some moral obligations. Just as you think rich folk have a moral obligation to society, the powerful nations do as well. If our trying to do good causes people to hate US and label US fascist so be it. History will be our judge. I think Algore and former hippies Bill and Hitlery Clinton would agree.
June 10th, 2006 at 9:13 amTroll
How do we show ourselves to be any different? If we claim moral superiority, how can we behave in exactly the same manner as our enemies do?
While I have read the Koran (it almost makes the Bible look coherent, and boy is it repetetive in its ramblings) and know the passages you are pointing to, I have also read the bible and know something of the history of Christianity. The west, with its religion of choice, is not so different, but that doesn’t mean we can’t change.
We need to stop hating our enemies, hatred only breeds more of them. We need to stop demonising people, stop lying about people, and start actually thinking things through calmly. We won’t defeat Islam so long as we are focussed on killing its leaders and converting the survivors over to Christianity, because that is exactly what we are opposed to.
We need to weaken their religion via the engines that weaken all religions, prosperity, and peace. We need to argue logically, and find the other way or we will become what we so revile.
Make no mistake, I do not champion the cause of a people who cheer in mass stadiums while watching women getting stoned to death. I do not support a people who declare death sentences on authors simply because they write books which they don’t like, and I certainly don’t support people who argue that their religion is a licence to war and murder, but I don’t want to, in my zeal to fight them, become them.
June 10th, 2006 at 9:34 amThen surrender is your choice. I dont care to. I have no desire to convert them to christianity just to leave my children free of their tyranny. Christian have made their mistakes but they violated their own gods teaching so could learn. That is not so in Islaml.
We do agree prosperity is a major part of the solution. How do we stop the mullahs long enough to have them achieve it?
June 10th, 2006 at 9:51 amtroll
And that, Troll, is why the rightwing, cannot win. You cannot see that there are more options then just death or surrender.
June 10th, 2006 at 10:26 amSo where is your solution? They are about to kill you!! What are you going to do negociate?
June 10th, 2006 at 11:35 amBruce I must admit Christianity brought an empire to its knees through love and pacifism and JPII was advocating just that. But its a big gamble that part of me cant buy into. These are hard issues but we must find our resolve understanding the real risks and potencial consequences. Because while pacifism is an ideal self defense is a legitimate coarse of action.
June 10th, 2006 at 11:58 amThose of you who liked Embattled Professor Ward Churchillâ„¢ and find P.J. O’Rourke too intelligent will just love Ann Coulter!!
June 10th, 2006 at 12:04 pm#121 They’ve been about to kill us for a very long time now. Containment with incentive to change works. It worked in the cold war, it would work now.
All out war only increases the likelyhood that they get a chance to kill us. Personally, other than bringing the 9/11 crew to justice (how’s that going btw?), I have no interest in killing “them.”
June 10th, 2006 at 12:19 pmWe do agree prosperity is a major part of the solution. How do we stop the mullahs long enough to have them achieve it?
For one, we don’t do it in places like Iraq. We do it in places like Jordon, Egypt, and spread freedom and prosperity from the moderate edges inward, as they see the two go hand in hand.
As it is, we are only showing them that they definitely do not want the U.S. coming to liberate them.
June 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm125
June 10th, 2006 at 1:16 pmok but as we have seen islamofascism is on the rise there as well because their own are too afraid to deal with them. As a result these governments are in danger.
How do we contain them they migrate? Its not the same as the cold war the enemy is very different.
The “dark ages” were partly a result of the Romans having lost their will to fight. They became too soft. Will this be the Wests fate? It seems that way. We conquered 2 nation and really our loses in trying to tame them have been minimal. Civilian causualties have been minimal as well considering. Regardless you would think it was a disaster by the reaction of the left.
We dont have the political will to even contain them it would br politically incorrect to do so. We would be labeled “fascist”.
June 10th, 2006 at 1:20 pm#128 There are no enemies out there hating your third-world democracy. Wake up. All enemies were once your friends that, after been supported with money, military training, bomb making decided to go against other targets than the ones you told them to go for. That´s when you say they are NOW the enemy. Your vocabulary just shows your ignorance and an amazing fear against US government-made-up enemies. By the way, we not label you as fascists; you are the perfect definition.
June 10th, 2006 at 1:49 pmJuan I only fear the freaks like you that get in the way of our cruhsing the threat. Knowing someone wants to kill you does not make you fearful it make you wise. Wisdom is not something you would undertand. It is barely discernable that you have a complete synapse between your 2 brain cells.
June 10th, 2006 at 3:54 pmTroll
The dark ages were caused by the Romans ditching democracy (such as they had) around 500 years before the final nail got hammered in. It had one hell of a lot to do with the fact that the Roman authorities had actually stopped obeying the law (and started massively exploiting the Goths.)
It had quite a bit to do with racism, and an agonising lack of competence in Rome’s army. The Goths were not charmed at being used as barbarian-fodder.
It also had a lot to do with the fact that the Romans had given up their technological edge over the years, until the “Barbarians” all around them were on a comparable level.
It had very little to do with a will to fight. The Romans were perfectly willing to fight, had no fear of fighting until their first major butt whooping, they just got beat.
What is needed here to beat the Theocrats is not war. War doesn’t prove or achieve anything when you are fighting an idea, all you end up with are martyrs.
What you need is the power of the economy, merged with the massive power of your technology. Think about it thus: If somebody found a safe, cheap, reliable and clean alternative to the internal combustion engine what would happen to the Middle East? They haven’t built up an educated workforce, they don’t have much other then oil in the way of resources, and generally the more “Terrorist Friendly” areas’ stability is up to shit.
If Bush was serious about a war on terror, he wouldn’t have cut spending on alternative energy sources. He would have doubled it, trebled it, and declared Gore’s new movie a must watch.
Next up, for the short term, you don’t declare war you disrupt. You strive to infiltrate and kill the beast from within. While your enemy is arguing about who gets to wear the badges of leadership, they aren’t attacking you. You cannot do this fully effectively so long as you lack agents fluent in the language of your enemies, who don’t have an accent.
And if you go to war, you make damn sure that that war will have the effect you intend, and you don’t take the word of a bunch of exiles on the current administration of the country you are going to war with. In that war, you do not spend $1 000 000 a pop on missiles which only work once. If it costs that much, then frankly, use the ones you’ve got and replace them with something cheaper. Wars are won by economies, don’t cripple yours in case of future wars.
You do not make war crimes policy. You do not authorise torture unless the need is so dire, so great that the torturer is willing to go to jail over it. There are very, very few instances where torture is justifiable, and frequently these are not the instances in which torture is employed.
You do not break the cover of your agents in the name of some political point, and you do not put party politics before national duty. You in point of fact, do not do what this Administration did to Valerie Plame.
Lastly, you do not waste money monitoring your own citizens just in case they might decide they don’t like you, you spend that money on monitoring the guys who want to kill you.
June 10th, 2006 at 6:20 pm#130
June 10th, 2006 at 7:28 pmVery thoughtful, insightful post, Bruce Gorton.
Bruce
The “will to fight ” could have more aptly been described as the will to defend the Empire it was my intension and I absolutly agree on the Rome issue.
That said I repeat will this be our fate? Have we become too complacent, indifferent or cynical?
When fighting socialism we were able to communicate the ideas. With Islam we are unable. And when we can a mere political ideology is nothing compared to the control religious ideology has over a believer.
While in certain scenarios this may be effective however overall I believe driving them deeper into poverty would make matters worse as it did in Iraq. Millions of chidren had died and millions more were sure to die as a result of the sanctions and we recieved the blame. How is that going to win the minds and hearts of the people? In addiion we are not always fighting nations in this battle, so it is more complicated. Often the enemy is within are own borders and they blend in well.
Again this certainly has its applications. But the time it would take to achieve this enormous task makes its application prohibitive.
I am not a military expert by any means but this point seems resonable.
I think you are insinuating that this is indeed the case and I would respectfully ask for you to produce the documents.
OK. War sucks what can I say.
Jury is still out on that one.
What if the guys who want to kill you are your citizens? Case in point 17 (?) Canadians arrested last week.
June 10th, 2006 at 9:08 pm#130 Freaks like me are going to save your ass of paying unfair taxes, to fight for a better world that can include even middle-age retarded that only see good or evil (if that exists at all)
So, in your opinion the most fearful people in the world are the wisest. Well, after 2500 american soldiers killed, and 300 billion dollars spent and all the might of your army I can see your fear, but I have not a clue about the wisdom. You dont have to worry about electrical impulses in my brain, just get yourself a nice, thick blanket to hold tight in the night, where all the communists and muslims that hate you are lurking.
June 10th, 2006 at 11:02 pmYou cant read juan. I will be vigilant since you obviouly were born without any gonads. Go back to your liberal lullaby.
If their is no such thing as good and evil, right and wrong why bother posting against conservatives here dip.
June 11th, 2006 at 7:19 amAnn Coulter accusing liberals of not being Christian enough is comparable to Hannibal Lector accusing somebody else of having an eating disorder.
August 2nd, 2006 at 1:18 pmAnd her fans just refuse to admit that Godless Ann calling these four 9/11 widows “Self-Obsessed Harpies” who enjoyed their husbands deaths, is just plain out-of-line, and all for no other reason than these women wanted to know why the Bush Administration had failed to notice any inpending Al-Qaeda terrorist plots. All this kinda makes me wonder if Godless Ann and all the arrogant right-wingers in political commentary (I’m looking at you, Sean Hannity) would have said the same things about these women had 9/11 happened while Clinton was President.