Bush Administration Developing Plans To Keep 50,000 U.S. Troops In Iraq For Decades
Bush Administration Developing Plans To Keep 50,000 U.S. Troops In Iraq For Decades
The New York Times reports that the Bush administration is making plans to keep tens of thousands of U.S. troops in Iraq indefinitely:
Mr. Bush on Friday made clear that the American commitment to the country will be long-term. Officials say the administration has begun to look at the costs of maintaining a force of roughly 50,000 troops there for years to come, roughly the size of the American presence maintained in the Philippines and Korea for decades after those conflicts.
On Meet the Press, Retired Gen. Barry McCaffery said it was likely that the U.S. will keep at least 50,000 in Iraq for the next 10 years:
GEN. McCAFFREY: Well, if it’s a government that works, we can probably sustain the U.S. troops, 50,000, 60,000, 70,000 troops there for 10 years and hope that Iraq turns into a responsible governmental entity that doesn’t attack its neighbors, doesn’t build WMD. I still think that’s a likely outcome if the political system can come together on the ground.
Meanwhile, conservatives in Congress stripped a provision from the supplemental spending bill that would have ruled out permanent U.S. bases in Iraq.
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I cannot understand why Congress continues to vote for money to pay for anything in Iraq. Have the lives of the Iraqui people improved because of the removal of Saddam Hussain? Do they feel hopeful about the future? Congress needs to find a way to understand the opinions and desires of the Iraquis before they votre to spend any more money in Iraq. Why should our children and grandchildren spend their lives working to pay billions of debt to Japanese and Chinese banks for something that is worse than futile?
June 11th, 2006 at 10:27 pmLet’s see. This is a big mistake for our credibility around the world as it makes liars out of this country. It is morally wrong as the Iraqis have made clear they want us out. We cannot afford as Bush to stay as has bankrupted us. Wonder what the GOP controlled Congress will do-probably just go along.
June 11th, 2006 at 10:28 pmWe cannot let this happen! What more does this administration have to do before we are marching in the streets en masse?
June 11th, 2006 at 10:33 pmTen more years in Iraq? Hell, no.
June 11th, 2006 at 10:38 pmF— George Bush.
They don’t care if we march.
They are going to get their foothold in the mideast against all sanity, decency, opinion, whatever. They want to be able to threaten to strike anywhere in the region for the forseeable future. They will bribe, they will cajole, they with bankrupt us.
They will insure that the US remains a burr that incites extremists. The extremist foroces in the mideast have far greater reach, more pervasive presence around the world that the Koreans ever dreamed of,and Bush intends to keep that pot stirred. Keep that military=industrial complex and all his oil buddies stoked.
June 11th, 2006 at 10:47 pmThe question is – how can progressives use this as an election issue? If you oppose the administration’s policies, you’re un-patriotic, or obstructionist, or some such crap. (See Ann Coulter for more colorful terms). Yet – here we are, providing funding for permanent military bases and the largest embassy complex. Do we need an embassy so large in a relatively small country?
I don’t have a problem providing some resources to a country that needs our help – but this is like moving to stranger’s home and building an addition which includes a bunch of bedrooms and bathrooms.
Perhaps George the Seconder (er, the Decider) will be moving to Iraq – to his new digs – to oversee oil production – or to cut all that cedar he needs to cut. *sigh*
/sarcasm (again)
June 11th, 2006 at 10:56 pmMe, #6: I meant move INTO a stranger’s home. (Tho we’re already in said home – and have been raiding the fridge – and we wonder why Fido the dog is biting our ass….) Doh.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:00 pmThe militiary-industrial complex must be feed,while democracy must die!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:01 pm#5,
June 11th, 2006 at 11:03 pmThat about sums it up.
Four military bases, a huge embassy ($580 million), risking the lives of our soldiers, and a drag on the economy in perpetuity.
Why, haven’t you heard, lurked at Freeperland? Iraqi oil will foot the bill on this one, and if you elect the idiot again, wei’ll see to it that you Uberumschmelshum will have will bread with yer water, and some change back on the biggest fattest, Fatwah (WW3) even known!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:03 pmWhy, haven’t you heard, lurked at Freeperland? Iraqi oil will foot the bill on this one, and if you elect the idiot again, wei’ll see to it that you Uberumschmelshum will have will bread with yer water, and some change back on the biggest fattest, Fatwah (WW3) ever known!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:03 pmThe filthy NYT ladles on some more sewage, with the — TOTALLY FAKE, THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS, YOU BASTARDS — fake progressive verb that pretends that warcriminals and genocidists in the Shitehouse are just now discovering the implications of its original strategy. Hey, did you hear about the PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERIKAN CENTURY?
“Officials say the administration has begun to look at the costs of maintaining a force of roughly 50,000 troops there for years to come”
“There IS NO MORE IRAQ. There will be THREE TERRITORIES.” — Kissinger, early 2004, briefing his Saudi clients on the actual policy, as opposed to the bullshit being shoveled on our heads.
Article 2, Clause 4 of the UN Charter: “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”
They just plan on driving over our skulls on the way to the Apocalypse. And they are using their vote-fraud to do it. It’s utterly illegal, but the ILLEGALLY POWERFUL Rapepublican Party has arrived at the inevitable result of selling out: total debasement. The ultimate condition of TRAITORS.
The agenda now is on the table, and for that I am in some weird way grateful. The mask is gone; the policy is exposed.
Burn your NYT’s in the streets — they lied and lied and lied and lied and lied.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:04 pmDon’t worry… Dubya won’t have to fix his problem. He is out of here in a couple of years and the next poor schmuck will have to fix it. And the way things are going it will be a Democrat. How perfect will that be in the following election? The Republicans can say that the Democrats cannot fix Iraq. They can then get back the House and Congress and invade another country!!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:06 pmthis has been the plan all along… nothing new here, move right along… it’s all part of the strategy for establishing global hegemony and it’s all right on schedule, minus the little messiness of the insurgency… we really don’t give a crap about whether the iraqi government works or not (as long as we’re pulling the strings), we really don’t give a crap if the shias and the sunnis keep blowing each other up, and we really don’t give a crap if u.s. troops are caught in the crossfire every now and then… what we really care about is having our own piece of real estate in the middle of the heart of islam where we can keep our fingers on the REAL pulse – energy resources – and are in a strategic position to defend it, whether it be in iraq or the caspian basin…
get a clue, folks… everything is on schedule and working out just according to plan…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
June 11th, 2006 at 11:08 pmGet ready you Republican college kiddies, Liberty University lawyers, Sons of the Senate, Republican Bloggers and forget that degree, forget about FOX TV, forget about what Paris Hilton is doing because your “President” needs you to go serve over in Iraq for the next 20-30 years.
Now since all these pro-war folks were the ones to basically “Vote” for this Democratic war, and whom today rally from behind their desk or their computer screen, banging out hateful words and outright lies, those Bush ‘bring it on warriors’ and others like Limbaugh and his parrots, Coulters and her Ilk, O’reilly and his minions and Hannity and his halfwits should be the First to serve in Iraq.
Whaddya guys think?
=(B:(|) Send the Bush Monkey’s to Iraq!!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:08 pm“a drag on the economy in perpetuity.” –Marie
You left out “in order to destroy the New Deal, and the Constitution that made it possible.”
June 11th, 2006 at 11:08 pmLike we didn’t see this coming?!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:11 pmThe only thing to fear is fear itself, and be careful for what you wish for–you may get it. Let’s see the next swing on the crapbag of campaigns and elections through the political wisdom will offer up dimwitted, souless, spineless whimps otherwise known as the D’s. I’m not real Komfortable with this brand of fasism either. (Remembering the old Dems…sigh)
June 11th, 2006 at 11:11 pm“They don’t care if we march.” — Don S.
You misunderstand the purposes of marching, Don. The idea that the people in power care about what the people want is and has been completely absurd for six years.
We march and protest for two primary reasons:
1) To express our outrage, which keeps free speech alive.
2) To water the grassroots, which keeps the people strong.
Both of those purposes are still operative, and I expect we will have some truly humungous marches in the coming days. And I welcome them, for we really need their true purposes as we CONTINUE to organize to take our country back.
No one can look at the list of lies and the obvious conspiracy and not admit to themselves that the elections are rigged.
There are specific people who have committed these felonies and acts of implicit/complicit treason against the Constitution. FIND OUT WHO IS DOING IT IN YOUR STATE, and work to bring them to justice.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:15 pmThere is finally talk of including media like the NYT and WaPo in war crimes investigations.
We will either get our country back (and the Iraqis will have theirs) and these people will be tried, convicted and imprisoned for the rest of their lives for their war crimes, or…They will win by continuing to lie through their media mouthpieces.
Truth is only found on the internet. Even if you have to do some searching and digging for yourself, the end result is far more satisfying than being fed another line of psy-ops like Zarqawi.
The problem with the NYT is that even when they tell the truth, there’s usually a hidden reason for doing so.
As for our permanent bases, WE know this puts the lie to everything we’ve been told all along, but if the media doesn’t cover it and Ma and Pa Kettle still get to watch the ann coulters of the world make the world uglier and dumber, then did it happen?
History will eventually get it mostly right, even if in this lifetime we are clutching at straws to find out the truth.
There is a great post on informationclearinghouse.com from Dahr Jamail and Jeff Pflueger called “Propaganda and Haditha” that is a revelation of sorts. It is at least the first time I’ve seen much of the information all in one spot.
Another great post there is the synopsis of Greg Palast’s new book. (Look into the smaller headlines for that one, but well worth the read.)
With people telling the truth and gaining faith in the internet and their ability to navigate, we have some hope.
Personally, I would like to see rumsfeld, cheney, bush, perle, wolfowitz, gonzalez and so many more get what they dished out. Sort of an update of the guillotine in the town square. It could be the biggest pay-per-view event in history–the war crimes trial and subsequent public humiliation of these hateful people who we will hope will never again be able to drag the human race and condition down.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:18 pmBush and Cheney must be put under arrest for High Treason for lying to Americans about Iraq! The permanent bases are costing billions of dollars and bankrupting the United States in the process! Any future president who carries on the Bush Regime occupation of Iraq would also be a traitor as well! Everyone must demand that all the troops be pulled out and the unfinished bases abandoned! It must be done by November of this year!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:21 pm#20 – Works for me, Ken!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:29 pm“the political wisdom will offer up dimwitted, souless, spineless whimps otherwise known as the D’s.” –beavercleaver
You will eventually have to recognize that you have no other scapegoat than YOURSELF.
What did you EVER do in your life to compare with the work of Kerry, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Conyers, Waxman, Kennedy, etc.?
What? Let’s have your resume; let’s hear about how much YOU have done.
It’s real easy to throw eggs — and scapegoating does help ignore the obvious (after all, it works for rightwingers exactly that way). What is harder to accept is that the nation has had a COUP, a conspiracy to take over the country, destroy the New Deal by wrecking the economy with war and upper bracket tax dismantlement, etc., and replace our Constitution with fascism.
If you don’t recall, in your comments, the anthrax attacks or the Wellstone family assassination, then you are refusing to properly contextualize these ‘failures’ who — BY THE WAY — are just about the only thing holding our Constitution together right now.
The real criminals are OBVIOUS. While some Dems are hopelessly compromised, like Lieberman, the great majority continue to fight, even if you in your precious throne sitting on your pure hands are inconvenienced by their inability to reverse conspiracy by the Military/Energy Industrial Complex.
It’s going to take some more WORK. I’m sure that is enough of a mean word to drive you even more scapegoating to avoid feeling responsible — YOUR SELF — to change the way things are.
The pure, so pure Left has ZERO seats in government, which is why they are so heroic. They never have to struggle in the system for political power, never have to compromise, and are never faced with no win illegal situations in which the Judicial Branch and the fourth branch of the Media collapses almost entirely into complicity. WAKE UP, as scapegoaters like to say.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:29 pmNo way! I’m in shock!!
June 11th, 2006 at 11:32 pmI guess now would be a good time to tell you where the WMDs are, wouldn’t it?
-
June 11th, 2006 at 11:35 pmLONG OVERDUE
Conservatives claim that they don’t get enough credit for their victories and that Democrats and liberals are just spinning.
What victories? Really. That is the problem. There are few if any Republican victories these days other than in elections.
And add to this a whole laundry list of historical-scale screw ups in 9/11 and not catching bin Ladin, puffing the intel to rush us into Iraq on false pretenses, doing Iraq on the cheap without a plan to counter the present insurgency, Katrina – before, during and after, Harriet Miers, the Dubai Port affair, rampant corruption and cronyism, K-Street and Abramoff, leaking the identity of a CIA operative (one who was critical to now non-existant intel on Iran), immigration, denying global warming, dividing America, hocking us to the hilt to fund tax cuts which disproportionately favor the super-rich, cowtowing to big oil, big pharma and giant corporations in general, trying to dismantle Social Security, countenancing torture and other blatant, repeated human rights abuses by the US government, arrogantly blaming everyone in sight but themselves for their own screw ups, and a massive, desperate, illegal program of illegal warrantless spying on Americans. This list is just astounding. These Republicans are complete failures. Just plain awful.
How people can call all this just “spin” is beyond me.
I think it’s time to give someone else a chance. Our last Democratic President didn’t do so bad, great in fact compared to these losers. Time to give them another chance. Mark Warner, Gore, Obama and other good Dems deserve it.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:36 pm#25: Oh – see an earlier thread – Curt Weldon (R-Nuts) knows where they are. :)
June 11th, 2006 at 11:37 pmAnd why not? We are doing such a bang up job of killing Iraqis. We must stay and finish the job – that is, kill all of them!
Remember, freedom is on the march over the corpses of the Iraqis.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:46 pm#27 – Maybe Curt & Ahmad could put together a little roadtrip into the desert?
June 11th, 2006 at 11:47 pm#28 – Great blog entry as always, Mash. Disturbing and profound.
June 11th, 2006 at 11:53 pmUm, isn’t there going to be a couple of elections in the next 10 years, or do these guys know something I don’t?
June 11th, 2006 at 11:54 pm#31 – we don’t need no stinkin elections – the last ones were good enuf – don’t ya see, there’s a perfectly good guv’mt there.
/sarcasm
June 12th, 2006 at 12:00 amWhy do we still have troops in Korea, Okinawa, Germany, the Philippines and Bosnia? Lets bring them all home.
June 12th, 2006 at 12:07 amPaul in LA,
Nice post. It’s true, we armchair warriors can only guess at the man behind the curtain. I have no idea what tribulations that Pelosi, Hillary, Daschle, et al. have to cope with that compromise their actions. I can say three things. 1) You are absolutely correct to say that a coup took place in Dec 2000, 2) The Dems give every appearance of willing self sabatoge and the DLC Dems give every appearance of being Repugs in Dem clothing, and 3) There is no rational choice but to vote Democratic in the slim chance the elections aren’t rigged beyond recognition
June 12th, 2006 at 12:24 amYou could just put US instead Iraq and fit perflectly in.
June 12th, 2006 at 12:37 amSince the Pentagon just comes out and says “de-facto” that the US will be in Iraq for at least the next 10 years implies some kind of conspiracy in America, because how can they assume the next president would agree to that since Bush is supposed to leave office in January 2009?
I find it interesting that Sen. Hillary Clinton and her hubby Bill hang out with the Bush family, so was a deal cut to put Hillary into the presidency by fraud to continue the occupation for her 2 terms as well? Otherwise how can Bush assume anything on Iraq!
June 12th, 2006 at 12:38 amyou are correct, nostrafarius -
and we will know if the upcoming elections “aren’t rigged beyond recognition” if there is a massive democratic voting turnout…exit polls really do not lie…
btw – RFKjr and mike papentonio want to bring a lawsuit against any and all who may be responsible for the theft of the last elections…you can hear their show, ring of fire, on air america radio, podcast – very informative…they want anyone with stories and/or info to call them…
June 12th, 2006 at 12:39 am[...] Forever? Forever ever? Forever ever? [...]
June 12th, 2006 at 12:40 am#3 – the draft would do it… but they don’t need it…yet…
#33 An empire needs frontier garrions, Mondale… the US talks about spreading democracy the way the Soviets talked about spreading peace…
June 12th, 2006 at 1:00 amMIC must be fed.
June 12th, 2006 at 1:26 amWho the f_ck CARES anymore?
Sh_t, the agenda was OBVIOUS to anyone who was paying attention and had half-a-brain from the very beginning.
If you didn’t realize back in 2002 that Bush invaded Iraq for imperialistic hegemony over an oil-rich region, then you were a f_cking DUMBSH_T or just plain not paying attention . . . or both.
Look, it’s been a done-deal for some time now. And the Dems that signed on to the IWR in 2002 were on board with that agenda. Why do you think that even now, when the Iraqi war is proving so unpopular, they won’t raise the spector of withdrawal as an issue in the upcoming 2006 elections?
Face it, folks: America is a corporate/plutocratic state run for the benefit of money-hungry elites, and both the GOP and the Dems are on board with the agenda. Wars for oil, for the military-industrial complex, and for multi-national interests (and none of these things are mutually exclusive) is what this country is truly about as we enter the 21st century. All the rest is nothing but smoke and mirrors, and bread and circuses, to keep the masses distracted and mollified and thinking they are “free” and that they live in a democracy, and that the terrorists have to be defeated.
By the way: They’re gonna “privatize” the Internet next. Anyone surprised by this? I mean, how else they gonna make sure that no real organized resistance to the status quo is possible. Between this, and the fact that they’re wire tapping everything we do, they’re making sure that NO genuine movement of and by the people can truly change things.
Ain’t imperialist-fascism cool?
Whether it’s cool or not, you’d better get used to it.
‘CAUSE. THERE’S. NOTHING. YOU. OR. I. CAN. DO. ABOUT. IT.
I think Orwell, prophecying this present reality said it best: War is Peace; Slavery is Freedom; Ignorance is Strength.
June 12th, 2006 at 1:26 amMcCaffrey is one of the so-called experts that Keith Olbermann puts on his show and, as evidenced by his remarks here, is in favor of the U.S. staying in Iraq for quite a while. Like so many of these alleged knowledgeable people, McCaffrey does not seem troubled in the least that the U.S. will be bogged down in that quagmire known as Iraq. When will programs like Meet the Press, Countdown, etc., begin to finally feature some prominent anti-war voices on their programs, such as Dahr Jamail, Nir Rosen, Robert Fisk, etc., in contrast to the many war advocates that these shows promote?
June 12th, 2006 at 1:32 amyou are correct, nostrafarius -
and we will know if the upcoming elections “aren’t rigged beyond recognition†if there is a massive democratic voting turnout…exit polls really do not lie…
–Through the corporate meida, they’ll get the clueless rank-and-file voters, who naively believe that the Dems are a real alternative to the GOP, to vote for Hillary, convincing them that she’s “electable,” or a “stong woman,” or a “moderate” or some other such nonsense.
–They’ll let Hillary win, and she will carry on business as usual in the Middle-East.
–Republican or Democrat, it’s only the difference between warm sh_t and cold sh_t.
–Look at how many Dems voted for the Copely bill the other day, and voted AGAINST net neutrality.
June 12th, 2006 at 1:36 amRecognizing that this is an Open Thread issue, nonetheless, a further comment:
“2) The Dems give every appearance of willing self sabatoge”
Actually, NOT. Once you factor back in the anthrax, the assassination of a Senator and his whole family, calling Daschle a traitor on the floor of the Senate, three hour open votes, threats on the floor of the House (Wade Cunningham: “Your son is toast.”), constant lies by the media misrepresenting what Dems do and say (including Democracy Now! somehow avoiding noticing that Kerry OUTED THE AIRBASES SCHEME and the PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY to 60,000,000 Americans in the first debate) –
You have to ask yourself why all that was necessary, if the Dems were such screw-ups and self-destructive fools.
“the DLC Dems give every appearance of being Repugs in Dem clothing”
Again, a great lie. You exaggerate with the best of them.
“3) There is no rational choice but to vote Democratic in the slim chance the elections aren’t rigged beyond recognition” –nostrafarius
There is and has never been a point to voting for candidates who cannot win. However, even rigged elections have to be voted — BOYCOTT of elections is an inherent absurdity. People should GO and vote (don’t vote absentee, since those ballots are commonly not counted, commonly not included in audits or recounts, and commonly tossed in the trash), observe and report any fraud or failure of equipment, and FORCE the bastards to steal the election, thereby handing us some more EVIDENCE.
State power is where our reserve power is, and it is in bad shape as a result of a great failure of those OTHER dummies, namely the public that is aware enough to do something, but doesn’t (which is a lot of liberals who have failed to find political responsibilities). OK, we all have our problems. But scapegoating the minority is not a solution to our problems — it is helping Karl Rove instead.
If that’s your job, you’re doing great at it. If instead you are seeking actual changes in the Dem party, you have to focus on WHAT YOU CAN CHANGE, because the way you are approaching it is destructive and not constructive (under the general, and non-functional, Leftist theory that you have to destroy before you can build. Remember Dems = Rapepublicans? That really worked out well in Florida. We either stand together with our good representatives, or we splinter and hand Rove a gift with ‘Leftist Purity At Whatever Cost’ written all over it.
June 12th, 2006 at 1:44 am“‘CAUSE. THERE’S. NOTHING. YOU. OR. I. CAN. DO. ABOUT. IT.” –Ben
This message of defeatism brought to you by Karl Rove Productions.
June 12th, 2006 at 1:45 am“–Look at how many Dems voted for the Copely bill the other day, and voted AGAINST net neutrality.” — Ben
“By a 269-152 vote that fell largely along party lines, the House Republican leadership mustered enough votes to reject a Democrat-backed amendment that would have enshrined stiff Net neutrality regulations into federal law and prevented broadband providers from treating some Internet sites differently from others.
“Of the 421 House members who participated in the vote that took place around 6:30 p.m. PT, the vast majority of Net neutrality supporters were Democrats. Republicans represented most of the opposition.” — Znet,
The final vote was different, if I’m tracking this correctly. But WHO is it that you are attacking? None of the major Dems in the House were on the yea side of that vote.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll241.xml
The idea that the party itself can reasonably be trashed for the votes of backbench House members is HILARIOUS SLANDER. Tell us which of these Dems do you think you want to work to remove in 2006 — they are all up for reelection.
What is your battleplan? Trashing the minority? Nope, that won’t work.
Certificate of appreciation from Rove, though.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:05 amHey Paul,
Last I checked, the Repubs held a 20 or 30 seat majority in the House.
Why didn’t the Net neutrality amendment lose by a margin approaching this amount?
And why didn’t Copely pass by a margin approaching this amount?
Answer, because A WHOLE LOTTA Dems (not just one or two) voted with the corporatists.
And one of those Dems, was MY OWN DLC-loving Congressman, even after myself and a whole bunch of other grass-roots activists had called his office and encouraged him to vote in a different way.
Don’t lecture me about the virtues of the Democratic Party. I was RAISED a Democrat from my earliest memories. I was always taught that “the Democrats were the working man. The Republicans are for only the rich.”
The contemporary Democratic Party, with the DLC out in front, has made a mockery of those teachings.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:26 amNone of the major Dems in the House were on the yea side of that vote.
–Last I checked, a vote talley didn’t differentiate between “major” and “minor” membors of a party.
–By the way Paul. Back in the fall of 2002, when I KNEW Saddam DIDN’T have WMD, and that Bush was lying about everything having to do with Iraq, and when I and hundreds of thousands of others like me TOOK TO THE STREETS IN PROTEST, AND WROTE LETTERS TO DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMEN, I watched while all the “major Dems” voted to enable Bush to go to war and to give him effective “bi-partisan” political cover to do so–Hillary, Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, Gephardt (the first turn-coat). All the front-runners for the nomination, voted to authorize Bush to make war in Iraq as he saw fit. At that moment, I KNEW that no one at a major level of government SPOKE FOR ME, and that I didn’t have a voice in the affairs of my country. It was then that I backed “outsider” Howard Dean as he came out of nowhere to tell the truths that none of the major Dems were willing to say. And what did the major Dems do to his movement? They spent more time fighting Dean (behind the scenes, especially) than they ever spent fighting Bush.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:38 amJune 12th, 2006 at 2:50 am
#48 A little too visceral, but I kind of think like you. Power brings out the worst of men.
June 12th, 2006 at 3:20 am“I watched while all the “major Dems†voted to enable Bush to go to war” — Ben
No, you didn’t.
Setting aside the violation of the Resolution’s conditions, and setting aside the fact that no Congress in the history of democracy has ever been able to stop a concerted Exective in war powers (yet),
the actual vote on the Resolution:
60% NAY House Dems, with change of leader to the first woman minority leader in history, the Nay-voting Nancy Pelosi.
About 40% NAY Senate Dems, in the upper house which FOR SURE has never stopped the Executive.
So your statement, is false.
Dean didn’t vote, but opposed the Resolution. He’s head of the party. Pelosi led a leadership change to vote a House Dem majority NAY. In the Senate, Kerry voted YEA, but states clearly that the Resolution was not legally upheld.
Clinton voted YEA, and says she doesn’t regret the vote, which is revolting. But with or without that vote, the Iraq Invasion was on, because Nine-eleven was on, and a list of crimes so long that it buggers beilef. You blame Dems for all that, but I BLAME BUSH.
They suspended the Constitution, by force, subterfuge, conspiracy, and vote-fraud — and have since broken just about every law in America. Tell me again how that’s the Democrat’s fault? Because they didn’t throw themselves in front of the train? Mafias are hard to stop, and the U.S. Constitution, without the Judiciary, is a two-legged stool.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:03 am” All the front-runners for the nomination, voted to authorize Bush to make war in Iraq as he saw fit.”
That is also A HUGE LIE.
The U.S. Congress did not authorize Bush to violate the UN Charter, the Geneva and Hague Conventions, the UN accord on torture, the US statute barring torture, the UCMJ, commit Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, violate the Whistleblower Act, along with a mountain of corruption felonies.
Also, Bush and Powell both told the Congress specifically that regime change was not the policy. Both promised to follow the UN Charter. COLIN POWEL OUTRIGHT LIED TO THE UN — that wasn’t the fault of the Congressional Dems!
So you are lumping together coerced votes Yea, complicit votes Yea, with a great number of proud NAY votes.
And, btw, I’ve been protesting this in the streets nearly every week for going on five years. I have never supported Bush for a second, including on the morning of Nine-eleven. On that level we see eye-to-eye.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:12 am“Howard Dean as he came out of nowhere….”
Governors have been running since the beginning. He may have been unknown to you.
“And what did the major Dems do to his movement? They spent more time fighting Dean (behind the scenes, especially) than they ever spent fighting Bush.” –Ben
And I believe the evidence proves that Kerry won the election by landslide. But Dean understood, and readily agreed, that he didn’t have the seniority to run. He was rewarded with the chair, and he earned that too. You and I both supported Dean, but I understand that a caucus cannot survive without seniority. Kerry has fought Bushco for a very long time. He outed PNAC and repudiated its permanent airbase scheme in the first debate, and place-kicked Bush into the parking lot, rhetorically. It was a rout.
But when he came out of the ABC interview, he said something like ‘Good God, they work for the RNC!’ He was genuinely shocked. How much can you blame a 30-year Senator for being shocked at a media coup that is/was obvious to us?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:26 amYou need to get rid of the Dems and Reps entirely. Why do you think the Dems have let the Republicans get away with so much shit without even a hint of protest? Its because the Dems are planning to do the exact same shit once they are in power.
You need to get rid of the emperial purple parties, and go to the Greens and Libertarians. Neither the Green nor Libertarian parties are viable alternative on their own but if both get enough seats together, you could expect to see some real debates in Congress.
If you think that you shouldn’t be weakening the Dems, then tell you what, get a friend who wasn’t going to vote anyway to vote Green or Libertarian, because shit knows there is no vote that is more wasted then a vote that was never cast. Give the small parties a chance, the big guys have kinda screwed up.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:18 amCan someone point me to a real alternative to the PNAC? I think that’s where we start, with a realistic plan for the future.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:48 amC’mon. Who among us DIDN’T think this was going to be a permanent occupation?
The ‘06 and ‘08 elections won’t make a bit of difference, either. If we’re going to see a government that is responsive to the needs and will of the people of the United States, it’s going to take dramatic action on our part.
Op-eds ain’t gonna do it. Blogs ain’t gonna do it. It’s going to take people, and lots of them, in the streets. Public acts of civil disobedience.
June 12th, 2006 at 7:06 amThe long-term occupation justifies the continuance of the National Security State, the Patriot Act and the virulent chest-beating nationalism that may be the only thing that can keep this rotten system going. Ware without end — the fascist dream.
June 12th, 2006 at 7:25 am“You need to get rid of the Dems and Reps entirely.” –Bruce Gorton
We also need to float in the air. I personally would like a pony.
June 12th, 2006 at 7:28 am“Can someone point me to a real alternative to the PNAC? I think that’s where we start, with a realistic plan for the future.” –Lancaster
The PNAC is a conspiracy to commit major federal and international crimes, which are now in evidence. The idea is supposed to be that the world and the Dem party needs an alternative to genocide to install airbases?
Start here: “Article. VI. This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land;”
Violating the UN Charter (a treaty), the Geneva and Hague Conventions, etc. THESE ARE HIGH CRIMES AND WARCRIMES. So the alternative you seek is called JUSTICE and punishment of the wrongdoers. A return to Constitutional government. That is going to take reformation of our voting systems.
“The ‘06 and ‘08 elections won’t make a bit of difference, either…It’s going to take people, and lots of them, in the streets. Public acts of civil disobedience.” –PopeRatzo
This is the usual Leftist approach. Abandon all government, and call for the general strikes.
I’m not opposed to general strikes. When will they begin, now that you have called for them?
June 12th, 2006 at 7:38 amThe plan is to do the same with Iran. You know, PNAC oil plan..
June 12th, 2006 at 7:38 am“The PNAC is a conspiracy to commit major federal and international crimes, which are now in evidence.”
Yup. So, what’s the realistic alternative?
I’m not saying that the world shouldn’t be a fair and just place to live- I’m saying it isn’t. You know and I know that these criminals will never be brought to justice. They “own” justice.
That said, I’ll agree that a return to Constitutional government is required. To get there let’s propose something better than fighting and dying for the rich- the PNAC proposal. Let’s propose something that makes sense to people who want a fair and just world.
I don’t know what that is. I think it may have something to do with giving up some Western material comforts…
June 12th, 2006 at 7:50 amOne of the reasons we are in the middle east is because we want to stablize the distribution of oil. We have built our cities so we are dependant on cars and trucks to us as well as foods, goods and services through the means of the combustion engine and cheap oil. We have not done any ‘city planning’ or planned for any mass transit that is worth its cost. We have painted ourselves into a corner because we lived in a fantasy that cheap oil could last forever and that sprawl was ok. Once we stop sprawl and truly invest in mass transit we can start reducing our dependance on cheap oil. Until then, we can invade all of the middle east countries we want. But it won’t make a lick of difference.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:07 amI find it interesting that BushCo and his warlords are holding a summit for the next couple of days to ensure that the so called Iraqi government has enough resources (American soldiers, American funding etc.) to continue the ” War On Terror “.
It sure would have been be a good thing for this country and for the victims of hurricane Katrina, the victims of outsourcing of jobs overseas, the imagration issue etc. if BushCo would spend as much time and recources on them.
America First!
June 12th, 2006 at 8:09 amLancaster
Aproach the problem seriously. Don’t tell lies, don’t resort to war as being the first step to anything, and generally try to figure out how to cripple the enemies supply chain.
Now, when you look at it, the majority of the money going to funding organisations like Al Qaeada is coming out of the Middle East. This money is virtually inexhaustable, we all need oil, and the Middle East has it.
Thus we need to think about how to neutralise this. Battles are won on the ground, but wars are won in the supply chain (hence why the Brits beat the boers at the opening of the last century, why nobody has really managed to conquor Russia, and why America lost in Vietnam) and that oil is the basis of Osama’s supply chain.
So, how do you deal with this issue? Do you invade the Middle East? No, because frankly you can’t afford to. The cut in oil supply would wreck your economy even more then the direct costs of the said war, and those direct costs can be crippling. Just invading Afghanistan and Iraq has contributed a fair amount to Bush’s efforts to double America’s national debt, and if you keep this up, the world will just run out of money to lend you. No, you need to tackle this one more indirectly.
If you cannot control the supply of oil, make oil obsolete. Find the alternative, and your enemies will be more then a bit screwed. Frankly, without oil the bulk of the Middle East would be just like Africa, and you actually want that, because face it, when last was Africa a threat to anybody but Africa?
In the mean time, attack only when you are attacked and generally, don’t demonise your enemies because otherwise all you are doing is giving your enemies free propaganda. I mean, think about it, would you like to be referred to as a towel head? Or have major TV personalities ranting about killing all of your leaders and converting you to their religion by the barrel of a gun?
Fight not with hatred, because all you will achieve is more enemies, fight calmly, and intellegently. Instead of wasting billions on monitoring your own citizens’ phone calls, train some agents in speaking Arabic and Farsi without accents. 1 competent agent can be more valuable then a thousand spy satelites. Train your soldiers, and teach them that they are not going to be welcomed as liberators, point out to them how they would feel if their nation got invaded.
The big issue, so far as I see it, you have on the ground in Iraq is that the soldier’s expected to be loved, but are anything but. They are absolutely detested, and rightly so a lot of the time, this leads to them eventually cracking and doing things which are not acceptable by anyone’s morality, which leads to them being even more hated. Massacred families make great enemy propaganda, and enemy propaganda makes great massacres.
And lastly, if you are going to go to war, make sure none of the Ammo costs more then any of your soldiers make in a year. Seriously.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:22 amBefore the war if you talked about long term involvement ala Korea or permanent military bases this administration and its supporters laughed in your face and labelled you insane. Now that it is a reality it is the smartest, best thing to do. Talk about a flip flop!
June 12th, 2006 at 8:22 am# 20-What an intriguing idea, holding MCM* responsible for its role in parroting maladministration propaganda.
Was this done with any publishers in Nazi Germany?
June 12th, 2006 at 8:38 amWell, I hope they take troops and equipment out of Europe to send to Iraq, so the military budget at least goes back to the level it was at before 9-11.
I’m sick of paying extra for Bush’s empire.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:43 amProof positive Republiscum are Party-before-country-TRAITORS…
Domestic Spying- the Arlen Specter response, from today’s NYT…
“Mr. Specter — who last week was bemoaning the fact that Mr. Cheney watched him pass by twice at a Senate buffet lunch without mentioning that he had just stabbed him in the back — still thinks it’s a good sign that the vice president’s office offered to review his legislation and suggest changes. Mr. Cheney and his underlings are the problem, not the solution, and Mr. Specter should realize that by now. Mr. Specter has the votes to subpoena the executives. All he has to do is drop his idea of meeting behind closed doors, and side with the panel’s Democrats, who want to have the hearing in full view of the Americans whose rights are being violated.”
-NYT-
June 12th, 2006 at 8:50 amGeorge W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and ALL Republiscum and DLC “conservative” inbred TRAITORS must be STOPPED…
…if American democracy is to survive…
June 12th, 2006 at 8:53 amDidn’t they hang, Julius Streicher and Alfred Rosenberg? Just two names off the top of my head, they probably got a few more while they were at it.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:57 amWe need to hold these war criminals responsible if not they will continue on with the PNAC agenda, and we know they are going to. We need to challenge them, and we need to be out in the streets, and VOTE in November. We need to be in charge.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:58 amDemocrats who try to block permanent bases in Iraq are weak on national security.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:05 amWait till November when you’re told they still control all by winning the ‘important’ races by two votes here and three votes there.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:20 amWe’ve witnessed this sh#t for six years.
They say one thing to make you believe they are securing some dumb-asses vote and then do whatever they want to benefit their own.
If you think it’s gonna magically change because we get out and vote, think again.
Both parties are in this scam for the long haul.
They feed off of one another, and milk you for the cost.
Donate, donate, donate . . . . . ‘we’re really fighting the bastards’ ! . . . . yeah right, tell me some more.
It’s not who votes for who, it’s who lies to you about the results.
Donate, donate, donate . . . . . ‘we’re really fighting the bastards’ ! . . . . yeah right, tell me some more.
It’s not who votes for who, it’s who lies to you about the results.
Comment by Keith H. #73
Keith,
In my heart I know you’re right…
…but until I’m willing to pick up arms and possibly “die” for what I believe…
…I’ll just keep voting…for now…
June 12th, 2006 at 10:03 amI like how they are planning for troop deployment into other presidents terms…..wait do they know something we don’t?
June 12th, 2006 at 10:14 amOnce again this administration’s outmoded Cold War thinking gets applied to the new world of asymmetric warfare and non-state-sponsored actors that they cannot understand and are equipped to fight neither temperamentally nor strategically. Invade, conquer, remake the government, establish long-term military bases. What worked in Germany in 1945 and Korea in 1953 will not work in Iraq. Right now we are remaking the Navy in a mutli-billion dollar project to create lighter, faster destoyers, when our enemies have no navy or army. We want to establish military beses for military strikes against states when we cannot secure the streets of Baghdad or the Green Zone.
June 12th, 2006 at 10:57 amI TOLD you two and a half YEARS ago that 17 PERMANENT MILITARY BASES had been built in Iraq. One of your “readers” called me a tin foil hat wearer.
So take that tin foil hat and shove it. I was right as usual.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:17 amDid any of you really think we wouldn’t leave a stablizing force in Iraq for the next 10+ years? You guys are crying over spilled milk.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:20 am#78: The US military in Iraq is not a stabilizing force; it is a destabilizing force. Spme Iraquis are saying that clearly. There is no US foreign policy purpose at all for a long term occupation of Iraq.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:36 amWe can’t talk about a timetable for the reduction of forces in Iraq, because that would “embolden the enemy”. But we CAN share our plans for the continuing occupation of Iraq, clearly showing that it does not matter if the new Iraqi government wants us to leave. They never intended to honor any of the promises they made to the Iraqi people, or to the American people. They said what they had to say, to ‘get into our pants’, as it were. And they are puzzled by the mistrust they are receiving from the world, at large? At this point a truthful statement from them is going to be worse than a lie, as we can see.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:44 amRegardless of what we peons think, smart policy makers liberal and conservative will continue to keep an american force in Iraq. My guess is 15 years minimum. In 08, we could even elect a Democrat president and they would leave the troops in Iraq. Like I said, you are crying over spilled milk.
June 12th, 2006 at 12:43 pmIf we leave Iraq, do you really think it will turn to peace and prosperity? At least at this point, we continue to get a say in the future of that country.
Why do we want a say in the future of Iraq?
June 12th, 2006 at 2:11 pmWhen President Bush first declared the “War on Terror”, I believe he said it would not be short but would take a long time. Secondly, how would liberals have reacted in 1947 or 1955 when the military would have announced that troops would be deployed in Germany and South Korea for decades? Somehow, I don’t think their reaction would have been the same which just goes to show to you how they have politicized the war on terror.
June 12th, 2006 at 2:55 pmWhy do we waste time with politicians, when we all know that this war is for the express purpose of making obscene profits for the military/industrial/security complex, including the cursed oil companies.
There is virtually no difference today between the sociopathic corporate whores of Babylon and the government, except that the politicians function in an armed camp in Washington D.C. and the corporate assholes who are writing all the legislation, like the bankruptcy reform bill, energy policy and telecommunications legislation (to name a few) are not.
Get it?
June 12th, 2006 at 3:19 pmits obvious that the democratic process has broken down here,and I have a few suggestions.It seems to me that the 2 party system is easily rigged and that both parties recieve such large sums of money from the multinational’s that only corporations seem to be truly represented here.Changing the system takes time and seems virtually impossible .At this point the smoke and mirrors tricks employed seem no more than good cop bad cop tactics to add window dressing to this farce!!! Okay vote dem in november in the hope of there is any truth to the two party myth,but we can act immediately today by picking perhaps one company and punishing it brutally !Our present masters will get nervous if more than half the population starts staring at them and makes an example of lets say EXXON the largest profit taker.These traitors survive only as long as we appear complacent .scare them and we may hear a new tune ,otherwise …
June 12th, 2006 at 3:23 pmthe solution lies outside the voting box ,I found my opinion about the war only represented by wellstone ,the rest seems to be no more than posturing! The problem is that even if these animals are jailed they are unfortunately correct in assuming that oil supplies will be a major problem in the future and we are going to have a rough time of it having made no allowances or arrangements to deal with this MAJOR stumbling block to our welfare.The world wars were fought over resources,the us doesnt recieve alot of its oil from Iraq or Iran which means we are playing in someone elses sand box and we have fired the opening shots in what is likely going to be a very messy scenario.these problems will remain even after the neocons are removed and we seem to be making no more than baby steps to escape an on rushing train !
June 12th, 2006 at 3:46 pmGlad to see the trolls finally came by to spread their ’spilled milk’ racism.
Aggressive war to install airbases, waged against a disarmed country that NEVER attacked the United States, is a violation of the UN Charter, as Kofi Annan stated quite a while ago.
Just as with Bush v. Gore, an unconstitutional decision that NO ONE believed would have gone to Gore had he been the petitioner in exactly the same case (otherwise), aggressive war is not legal just because it is the U.S. doing it.
That spilled milk is the blood of some 200,000 innocent civilians, many killed for no crime other than not reading English or understanding military handsigns (at checkpoints), many killed for living in some location that the U.S. commanders decided they had the right to murder en masse, which is pogrom, which is a major warcrime.
Racists don’t care about our laws. They just want their scapegoat. And the claim that Bush (WHIG) is operating within our laws is HILARIOUS. There is no justification for not deploying sufficient troops to begin with, just as there was NO JUSTIFICATION FOR ALLOWING BIN LADEN TO ESCAPE FROM TORA BORA, BY PUTTING A ‘FORCE’ OF 1,500 U.S. soldiers against that enclave, and using ‘former’ Taliban to guard the Pak border.
Only the jingoes think they can do whatever they like because ‘they’ have nukes and the largest military in the world. Saint Reagan didn’t believe in starting up the nuclear arms race again — nor did he believe that the U.S. should install airbases in the ME by ruthless force and trigger WWIII. Only the crazy jingoes believe that their Apocalypse is an idea whose time has come. You’re insane — don’t act like you’re here with a reasoned argument. Spilled milk? Necks in nooses.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:58 pm[...] Think Progress [...]
June 12th, 2006 at 5:17 pmThis has always been part of the plan…to have a presence to keep an eye on the good, bad and other neighbors in a very contentious neighborhood. To be right next door to watch the oil run out of three of the World’s largest oil producers…S. Arabia, Kuwait and Iran, plus that of Iraq.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:34 pm#83, hmm and the Iraq invasion and occupation has exactly what to do with the ‘War on terror?’, Randy? Which rationale are you going use? Which of the 23 different rationales are you going to use to help you sleep at night for being part of the most irresponsible, murderous and incompetent acts of US imperialism since Vietnam.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:46 pmVoting is too easy and indirect lets get realhere and do something that will actually make these criminals take notice ,hurt the largest oil companies at the pump which is easier than a general strike you just need to use the gas station across the street and you were getting gas anyway ! A little success here might even help empower the citizenry,you can check the progress in the stock reports ,and no one gets dirty .It could be done prior to the elections
June 12th, 2006 at 5:57 pmEven REAL conservatives could support a boycot of exxon and it takes less effort than voting and you dont do it once every 2 years MAKE THEM PAY
June 12th, 2006 at 6:00 pmBack on Thread – Permanent bases in Iraq???This is ALMOST as bad as the news we are still in Korea….now if they had a boatload of oil under the southern half of that peninisula…..
Seriously, the primary differences between progs and conservatives:
a.)conservatives tend to have pride in being an American – progs tend to have pride in the being fellow travellers of the “planet”.
b.) conservatives think your wages are yours – and you should be taxed to pay for the needed goods and services of government. Progs view taxes (first & foremost) as a way to punish wealthy people with wealth re-distribution. And there have been very few government programs progs disagree with.
c.) conservatives think pedophiles should be locked up for life. States where stricter laws dealing with pedophiles have been blocked, thank a Democrat. (This is NOT to imply Dems LOVE pedofreaks – but many do believe they can be rehabilitated. Except in some cases of youthful “show & tell”, the concept of rehabilitation of the pedophile is an impossibility.)
d.) progressives despise George Bush with such venom that he can do nothing right in their eyes. Bill Clinton, that loveable man-boy, was not so liberal that he couldn’t co-opt Republican ideas. But having the morals of an alley cat made for some amusing tales.
We view circumstances with the clarity of different lenses. In short, the reason eyewitness testimony is cross-examined so diligently is due to the fact that each of us have pre-conceived notions. Until 30-40 years ago, however, Dems and Repubs took great pride in being Americans. Unfortunately, anti-American authorities, authors and professors (ie Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Armando Navarro will ALWAYS believe every anti-American item that can possibly be digested. ) Does this mean America is always correct? Of course not – nothing run by fallible humans is always right or good.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:30 pmHey MA, here’s a quiz for you. Match up the following quotes in support of progressive taxation with the following raving commie bastards:
John Adams
Teddy Roosevelt
Thomas Jefferson
De Tocqueville
Ben Franklin
“The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life.”
“Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.”
“that no man ought to own more property than needed for his livelihood; the rest, by right, belonged to the state.”
“The American experiment presupposes a rejection of inherited privilege.”
“The balance of power in a society, accompanies the balance of property in land. The only possible way, then, of preserving the balance of power on the side of equal liberty and public virtue, is to make the acquisition of land easy to every member of society; to make a division of land into small quantities, so that the multitude may he possessed of landed estates. If the multitude is possessed of the balance of real estate, the multitude will take care of the liberty, virtue, and interest of the multitude, in all acts of government.”
Other thoughts on the role of progressive taxation as a security for the American Republic, here on Tom Paine
June 12th, 2006 at 6:48 pmOh, and Steve Forbes is a fascist.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:50 pmBack on Thread – Permanent bases in Iraq???This is ALMOST as bad as the news we are still in Korea….now if they had a boatload of oil under the southern half of that peninisula…..
Got Empire?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:51 pmso aphrodite you have no problem with oil companies making the most profit of any companies in history or a cabal of oil execs making foreign policy ?These companies dont even pay taxes ,you paid more to the feds last year than enron did !Kenny boy will be writing his memoirs from jail and we dont get our oil from Iraq or iran .Dont U wish we could be discussing clintons sexual habits instead of the deaths of 100’sof 1000’s of innocents who represented no threats to the US?We invaded another country for oil how is that different from what the nazi’s did .According to international treaty there isn’t any.
June 12th, 2006 at 7:39 pmWell of course they are going to stay what about that hugh embassy they are building, they are not building it for the insurgents.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:13 pm104 acres with 21 buildings a massive expensive construction going on there. It is suppose to be a secret.
And imagine: Iraq gets to be three territories and a huge U.S. military encampment because the CIA installed Hussein, Reagan-Bush I armed him, including with WMD, and he invaded Kuwait after Bush I told him to go ahead.
Just take the map, draw a mark on it, bomb that mark, and move in the troops! Easy.
Oh, and break every law you can find. MA doesn’t care.
June 12th, 2006 at 8:22 pmgive me that old time religion giver me that old time religion give me aphrodite she looks fetching in a nighty yeah she’s allright with me.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:37 pmoh yeah and lets not forget what a great country we were when we were civilizing last years terrorist THE INDIAN
June 12th, 2006 at 9:52 pmThis whole situation is very complex and requires a multi-faceted approach.
I guess a good place to start is the beginning. PNAC, PNAc was written in Israel and later copied by Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz and others. As with anything we need to follow the money to see where the true problem lies. When following the money we go to the MIC (military industrial complex). From here we see where the money goes and low and behold a large portion goes straight to Israel along with non-profit contributions from America’s churches.
The first oil piplines in Iraq that were opened are lines which had been disabled for years and run straight to Tel Aviv. We are shipping Iraqi oil to Israel and buying it from them all the while defrauding the Iraqis of their oil revenue.
Part of the original PNAC documents written in ISrael were in the form a paper entitled securing the realm, or a similar title. This paper called for the destruction of Iraq and the destabilizing of it’s government whereby the nation would be split into waring factions or territories. It even mentions three factions or territories (suni, kurd, etc).
One important first step in reform is taking place as we speak, the Protestant Churches of America in 2004 voted to begin divesting in companies which are supporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine. This is huge as American churches give far more tax free money to Israel that the US government does.
We should do the same in our purchases. The biggest and most influential lobby in America is AIPAC ( Israeli Lobby) and they are behind this war as no other entity has been. We invaded Iraq to serve the purposes of Israel and the world bankers, not just for their oil or strategic location. As Israel’s chief defender and supporter we are now poised to strike any of Israel’s enemies for them so they can remain with clean hands.
Think of the nationality or ethnicity of those calling the shots on these plans. The bankers are headed by the Rothschilds, Bush has appointed to positions in his administration Feith ( who was caught spying for Israel in the 1970’s), Wolfowitz (an author of PNAC), Libby (A member of the PNAC clan), Cheney (strong Israeli supporter and PNAC member) and many others who’s names escape me at the moment. Our government as it stands now is an extension of the Israeli government.
We not only need to be vigilant about our upcoming elections and hold and violatiors of our laws accountable, but we also need to be very vocal about lobby reform and cleaning up our house (Washington D.C.). Until we are motivated enough to tackle all of this at once and motivate others to join in and stop being complacent, there will be no hope for our nation’s return to Constitutional government.
Part of the plan in Iraq was to control the banking, oil and economies of the region. If we sit back and quietly allow the PANC clan ( read this as Neocons) to accomplish these goals then Israel will have gotten most everything they wanted when they originally wrote their paper on the plan to seecure the realm. America will have handed them everything and paid the entire tab in both money and loss of life.
June 13th, 2006 at 12:23 amhurt the largest oil companies at the pump which is easier than a general strike you just need to use the gas station across the street and you were getting gas anyway !
Comment by freeman #91
Buy ONLY CITGO gas!
June 13th, 2006 at 9:11 amPuny Hermaphrodite (aka. Mighty Aphrodite),
…Seriously…
…the differences between liberal/progressives and (social) conservatives are:
liberals/progressives ARE human beings…
…who believe those old axioms of , (everyone having the right to pursue)…
“Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness”…
…all lives (no matter the race, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference, gender) “are sacred…
…(social) conservatives believe these axioms ONLY apply to the privileged few (w/emphasis on WASP male privilege)…
…liberal/progressives believe in right, wrong, justice and fairplay…
…(social) conservatives believe in (hypocrisy) what’s right for ME, you’re wrong, and that fairplay and justice is for “just us” (them)…
…liberals/progressives believe in the concept of benevolent government, a hand up doesn’t mean a handout for those in need…
…(social) conservatives simply believe that “greed is good”, I too can one day be “rich bi*ch”, and every man/woman for himself/herself…
…unless it’s corporate/farm subsidies, and elitist welfare that’s being doled out…
Puny, (social) conservatives are:
… racist, sexist, bigoted, anti-christian, anti-American, selfish, inhumane, scum…
Seriously…
June 13th, 2006 at 9:30 amI forgot
…murderous and psychopathic/sociopathic…
June 13th, 2006 at 9:31 amThe Iraqis have seen improvement. Plus, we can’t abandon 27 million Iraqis to !0,000 terrorists. More work, of course, needs to be done, but the Iraq people are almost in reach of a huge transformation: from a primitive form of life under Saddam Hussein, to a self-governing and a self-securing nationhood. No one should allow the U.S. military to withdraw prematurely. Moreover, progress is visible. The North of Iraq is continuosly propering. More cell phones are seen in the Iraqis hands now then ever before. We are fight on the side of the 27 million Iraqis because the outcome of this war is so critically important to the security and freedom of America. Just to add some more information, 2/3’s of the Iraqis say they are better of then they were under Saddam, and a astounding 82% say they are confident that the situation in Iraq will be better in a year from now. Therefore, it would be a colossal mistake made by U.S. political leaders if we withdraw now. If we do withdram we are trying”To seize defeat from the jaws of a coming victory.”
June 26th, 2006 at 6:05 pmby the way, it seems like you guys are hinting that this war is about oil, when it’s merely a detail.
June 26th, 2006 at 6:08 pmI think bush has no idea of what he is doing and that is my opinion. If he keeps on sending more troops more lives will be lost than saved.
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shag hairstyle basically gotits name from the word “shaggy” since …once the hair is cutand layered it gives off a shaggy look. The shag hairstyle has always been apopular hairstyle, and there are plenty ofshag hairstyles to choose from…
March 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pmArbonne skin care line overview…
Arbonne is one of the prestigious companies in the world when it comes to skin and beauty care. Its skin care product line is one of the best in the world that many women. The products of Arbonne International skin care products are manufactured in Sw…
April 18th, 2009 at 8:53 am