NSA Blocking Whistleblower From Telling Committee About Shocking, Illegal Activities
NSA Blocking Whistleblower From Telling Committee About Shocking, Illegal Activities
Last month, ThinkProgress reported that NSA whistleblower Russell Tice would meet with members of the Senate Armed Services Committee to discuss undisclosed unlawful activity that the Agency has engaged in. “I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them,†Tice said.
Since that time, little has been reported of Tice’s meeting. CongressDaily (sub. req’d) follows-up today, “Tice met last month in a closed session with senior staff from the Senate Armed Services Committee. Tice said he told the staffers everything he knew. But he said the aides did not say how, or if, they would follow up on his allegations.â€
CongressDaily also reports that House Government Reform National Security Subcommittee, through its Chairman Christopher Shays (R-CT) and ranking member Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), is seeking to interview Tice, but the NSA is resisting.
Tice said his information is different from the terrorist surveillance program that President Bush acknowledged in December and from news accounts last month that the NSA has been secretly collecting phone call records of millions of Americans. Because he worked on special access programs, however, it has not been clear on Capitol Hill which committees have jurisdiction to debrief him. Shays and Kucinich gave the NSA until Friday to explain any legal reason why they cannot interview him. But that deadline passed without a response, and a subcommittee aide today called the missed deadline troubling.
Shays and Kucinich had originally asked the NSA to give them a reason by May 26, but the agency asked for an extension until June 9. NSA spokesman Don Weber said today that the agency “is performing due diligence in developing a response to the committee’s request,” but added that Tice has not notified the agency of the alleged illegal activity. Tice said he does not believe he needs to notify the agency of his allegations.
Congress deserves to hear from Tice, who has a history for blowing the whistle on serious misconduct. He was one of the sources that revealed the administration’s warrantless domestic spying program to the New York Times.
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156 Responses to “NSA Blocking Whistleblower From Telling Committee About Shocking, Illegal Activities”
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Why doesn't Tice just leak his knowledge to some journalists? Cat would be out of the bag... and NSA would have no iron curtain left to hide behind...
June 12th, 2006 at 3:56 pmAnd this guy has not had an auto accident yet?
June 12th, 2006 at 3:57 pmFASCIST AMERICA -- Its alive and well.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:05 pmThe AMERICAN DEMCRATIC REPUBLIC -- On its death bed.
When is the Bush Regime crap going to end? The Congress has been castrated or they are too afraid to confront Bush's lies?
June 12th, 2006 at 4:06 pmWhy doesn’t Tice just leak his knowledge to some journalists? Cat would be out of the bag… and NSA would have no iron curtain left to hide behind…
Comment by unbelievable
Going to the press would get him in hot water ( especially since SCOTUS gutted the whistleblower protections). I am pretty sure he doesn't want to be charged and end up in court.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:08 pmWell, the administration has thrown up its middle finger at Congress so far, when it comes to any attempt at oversight. Why should this be different? 3 possibilities for delay by the NSA: (1) If Tice's info is different from the warrantless wiretapping and collection of phone records, they are scrambling to find a reason other than national security. (2) By not responding, they are hoping it will just go away. (3) They are awaiting instructions from Bush.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:17 pmI expect a full court press by the Democratic leadership in warning Americans of the degradation of their civil liberties.
NOT!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!suckers
June 12th, 2006 at 4:18 pmHaving Tice testify means lies and conspiracies will become apparent, and that it will show crimes have been committed.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:20 pmif you think this is troubling, try to remember what voting was like. This congress can't allow people to replace them, as there are so many that will go to jail when the real inquiries start. Congress will not have as much trouble as the other branch. Right now it appears hundreds of the admin will do jail time if the law is allowed to do it's job
Oh come on Wayne, if Tice had anything significant to add to the Liberal cause you know that he could hide behind Pelosi's, Clinton's, or Murtha's skirt. trust me if he had anything that would help the Dhimmicrats, they already know it. The fact that you don't see the party leaders (sic) wailing is because they know that Russ is full of shit and should be full of Prozac or Lithium.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:21 pmThe stupidity of the left never ceases to amaze me. Let me put this in as simple terms as possible so even you can understand. The NSA is collecting data on phone records not listening to millions and millions of phone conversations. Do any of you realize how difficult it would be for the government to listen to every single phone conservation? Not to mention, that anyone can get this information if they want to off the Web? They are doing what they have to protect us from another 9/11. I have nothing to hide. Are many of you supporting Al Qaeda and fearful that you will be caught? It makes me sick how much liberals hate America and are willing to put us at risk of another attack in their efforts to regain their power.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:22 pmYet another sign that your democracy is lost. What is most surprising, however, is the ease in which you all have handed it away. What is the greatest atrocity, though, is that you all sit around and allow it to happen instead of taking to the streets. Lord knows that you cannot miss your must-see TV but you would think that the removal of your rights, the massive debt, and the ongoing murders and human rights abuses happening in your name would have been enough to cause you to revolt.
But no. Instead, I fear, nothing will get the American citizens' attention short of a nuclear event. But, based on your track record, you all will just conjure up a knee-jerk response and will needlessly and murderously attack innocent people. It is your MO.
Here, I'll help you a bit. You want to see a terrorist, look in the mirror.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:24 pm#9
See, if right wingers don't like the message, attack the messenger.
if the administration wasn't scared of what he has to say, why are they trying to hard to keep him from speaking?
June 12th, 2006 at 4:26 pmGoing to the press would get him in hot water ( especially since SCOTUS gutted the whistleblower protections). I am pretty sure he doesn’t want to be charged and end up in court.
Comment by Wayne — June 12, 2006 @ 4:08 pm
I was thinking he could do it anonymously.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:27 pmThose of you who remember me talking about this, about 6 months ago, will remember I said that they we're listening to ALL CALLS.
Not some calls, but ALL CALLS in the US.
I wrote about how when Bush spoke about the Central "Switching Exchanges", he gave away, at least to me, and anyone knowing anything about Analog to Digital Conversion, and what you can do once words become "digitized", his real game.
As I said then, and I still stand by my "theory", that they are capturing ALL phone calls in the US, as the calls pass through digital switching banks. Then offloading the data to a SANS network of some sort, they "warehouse" the data for later "data-mining" and "keyword" searches.
They showed us this technology back in 03 on CNN. They dramaticized it in the Movie "Enemy of the State" in 00. Remember how they told us that whenever we say "certain keywords", like President, and Bomb, in the same sentence, that super-computers at NSA switch on, and begin recording the call?
Remember that?
Well I asked you all a question back then. One simple question.
If they "start" recording when you say certain keywords, how did they KNOW you said them?
How do they know you said them?
Answer that question, and you'll know what all the hub-bubs about.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:28 pmIt makes me sick how much liberals hate America and are willing to put us at risk of another attack in their efforts to regain their power.
Comment by Randy
Must be hard to breathe, with your head constantly burried in the sand. does much sand get in your ears?
June 12th, 2006 at 4:29 pm#11
Can you be a little more specific here? Just exactly which rights are being removed? You obviously have forgotten what happened on 9/11, to the U.S.S. Cole, the first WTC attack etc. We are at war. What part of that don't you understand? We did not rush into Iraq. It took 16 failed UN resolutions to get us there in the first place. You sound like you would have been one of those people who appeased Hitler thinking they could satisfy him.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:30 pmIf Randy had anything of value to say, he hasn't spilled the beans yet in any of his posts.
Guy, this one is hinting that the NSA program involves spying on ALL OF US! & you sit there and act like you know shit. Well, we know shit too. We know you are an ill informed fascist state brownshirt who'd just as soon see our great Democracy die cause of the Nazi's you vote for.
dumbass.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:31 pmHere, I’ll help you a bit. You want to see a terrorist, look in the mirror.
Comment by Humanist — June 12, 2006 @ 4:24 pm
The 100 people in here alone won't make an impact. Though. just so you know - there are demonstrations all the time. The Revolution will not be televised...
June 12th, 2006 at 4:31 pmNo Randy, the truth is that you ARE one of the souls who would've supported Hitlers invasion of other countries because they "might present a threat one day".
You would've rolled over, put on your swastika, and goosestepped your way right into hell, just like you are doing now.
We are not at "war".
When we are at war, you won't need to tell us we're at war.
It will be obvious.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:33 pmcomparisons of Hitler to Saddam don't work. Saddam didn't have the military Hitler did. Saddam's attempts to subjecate the neigboring countries were rebuffed. Once by Iran, with a small bit of help from the US. And once by a US led coalition to remove Iraq from Kuwait.
no one has forgotten what happened on 9/11, however it does not give carte blanche to overturn the constitution. Please try to speak logically instead of some knee jerk statements you got of absurd limbaugh.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:35 pmNo but comparisons of Hitler to Bush fit like a freakin glove.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:36 pmIs this Randy serious? The NSA is using technology developed by Dialogic Corporation over 10 years ago to catch phrases, a high-volume, automated voice recognition and pattern matching system. Remember Echelon? Probably not.
Now, Randy has nothing to hide.....Can I listen in to you talking dirty to your wife or girlfriend? No, why not? Do you prance around in front of your front window naked? Why not? You say you have nothing to hide.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:36 pm#16,
No, I would not have "appeased" hitler, I would have fought him and the nazis to the death. Why? Because they misled their citizens, they killed countless innocent people, and they terrorized the world. Gee, sounds familiar, sounds like the current day United States of America.
And to beat you to the punch, if you Americans do not stop your terrorist ways, I will fight you. Evil is evil whether it is done under the banner of a swastika, or under the banner of stars and stripes.
You fools.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:36 pmRandy, would you want President Hillary to have such powers? Would you want her ignoring laws passed by Congress with the addition of "signing statements"? Would you want her attorney general claiming that the president has virtually unlimited powers during wartime?
I didn't think so.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:36 pmi don't know a lot about this stuff, which is obvious....so bear with me on these questions....
could someone who works in this department, who feels that the govt isn't paying him enough, get the personal info on a wealthy person and use that info to get money? is it possible that someone who works in this department to get info on someone in order to blackmail tham?
just askin'.... thanks
June 12th, 2006 at 4:38 pmPost a link to the Congressional Declaration of War.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:40 pmPost a link to the Congressional Declaration of War
There never was a Congressional Declaration of War
June 12th, 2006 at 4:42 pmIt might be possible peg. The DC rumour mill, said that J. Edgar Hoover had dirt on just about everyone. That is why he supposedly stayed in control of the FBI for so long, even though he was not well liked by politicians.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:42 pm#25,
In a way you are stumbling upon the answer to all of this, which was obvious to your founders but after 200+ years of advanced education seems to be beyond your current citizens. Only one person in the world can be "trusted" with your personal and private information, YOU. And, after all is said and done, your only true possession is your own thoughts, your own mind, your own personal and private information.
But you all are giving it away, without a fight. Seems to me that you are about to get exactly what you deserve.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:43 pmI know that, but Radny seems to think there is.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:44 pmComment by Randy
GOOD.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:49 pmYou all are at war with an EMOTION! Hundreds of thousands of people have died/been murdered in this war and your justification is that they might have had the capability of inflicting the emotion of "terror" upon you. A more cowardly justification for war has never existed.
Gosh, I hope that your president doesn't get jilted by his wife. Otherwise, you will be launching a war on "brokenheartedness" and you all will kill off all your spouses.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:51 pmI know that, but Radny seems to think there is
I knew you knew that, but Randy the Cro-Magnon needs some historical context. Article 1 of the Constitution says only Congress has the Power to Declare War, and this frivilous and Un-Constitutional War Powers Act is yet to be challenged, lest you be called "Un-Murkin"
June 12th, 2006 at 4:52 pm#10
Your ignorance continues to amaze us as well.
(1) Why does the NSA need access to my phone records to track terrorists? As has been reported, there are no personal details included in the phone records (which, by the way, number in the trillions, if you count each record individually). Thus all they have is what I can see in my own call detail...line after line of calls made or received, the numbers involved, the time of day, and the duration of the call. It's ignorant to think that they can detect who is a terrorist simply by looking at call patterns using the info as I described above and not having names to go with that info. Thus...
(2) Odds are that the NSA must have names to go with cell phone numbers. Let's say they have a list of 150 known or suspected terrorists. Why not get a FISA warrant and then go to the phone companies and get the records for just those 150? They could then see who they were calling, and follow up with further requests for info, all within the law.
(I have nothing against this, so screw you for suggesting otherwise.)
Again, why do they need records of tens of millions of Americans to weed out a relative handful of known or suspected terrorists?
(3) How about a little historical perspective on presidential abuse of power. What is your opinion of the Watergate scandal? Do you think Nixon was completely innocent? Yes or no question: do you really believe that presidential abuse of power can never happen again in this country, by any president?
June 12th, 2006 at 4:52 pmHumanist,
It is actually 34% of the population that is "at war with terror" These are the same people who had bomb shelters in their back yards. They are a bunch of chicken hawk assholes.
Next, they will have a war on being bored or tired. Terror like you pointed out is an emotion.
You know what the real issue is?
The Neo-Cons have started a war on Islam. They, as I have pointed out are too chicken shit to call it what it is. I have gotten my father to come close to saying it, but just like the rest of the republican are too scared to say it.
How can you tell. They don't consider people like Timothy McVeigh to be terrorists, even though he did the same thing.
You will notice Randy only pointed out terrorist activities carried out by Muslims. He won't point out the Christian terrorists. Like the Southern Baptists that blow up abortion clinics.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:56 pmThey are eavedropping on their political opponents, collegues, both dem and repub.
Also try this:This has nothing to do with whether you have anything to hide. Does any of the people you call have anything to hide. Could what they know or do, bring you into whatever they are doing or maybe doing, bring the government's suspicion upon you?
You do know Randy, they can pickup everybody you call, label you enemy combatants.Put all of you in a gitmo type prison, without anyone being notified, with no representation. You do know this, right?
The patriot act allows this. Has nothing to do with whether you are guilty or not. but they can keep and do whatever they want. Until and if, they decide to let you go.
All could happen why? because they picked up everybody you called or who called you. Where one or more of the people in your calling circle was suspicious to them.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:59 pmThis thread is heating up I see! I do not understand WHY anyone would defend the NSA spying on here? All calls in the US are data-mined now for key words like "I hate Bush" or "Screw that bozo in the White House" etc. > the wiretapping is to flush out Bush's political enemies inside the United States, and NOT to find foreign terrorists hiding here! 1984 has arrived everyone, but Orwell never told us that "Big Brother" would be a criminal dunce like Dubya!
June 12th, 2006 at 4:59 pmThe Terrorist Surveillance Program is the most important tool we have against terrorists. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. Not by the will of Democrats. Certainly not by the will of Republicans.
June 12th, 2006 at 4:59 pmThe Terrorist Surveillance Program has the support of the majority of Americans.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:03 pmIt makes me sick how much liberals hate America and are willing to put us at risk of another attack in their efforts to regain their power.
Comment by Randy
Well, it makes me sick to think that a president will convince most Americans that he is the only one in this country who is capable of preventing that attack, just so he can win re-election.
It also makes me sick that Bush can speak openly in public about our efforts at tracking terrorists, including speaking about wiretapping, yet throws a childish tantrum should a reporter do the same thing, and then have idiots on the right such as Bill Bennett suggest that the same reporter be thrown in jail for revealing "national secrets."
It makes me sick that people such as you have no problem with your president having unlimited power, can essentially tell the Congress to f-off, and can make 750 signing statements saying he doesn't have to obey the law if he doesn't feel like it.
Finally, it makes me sick that people such as you, who don't even know me, so casually label me a hate-filled liberal. You don't love this country any more than I do, buddy.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:03 pmPost 38 > If you are Karl Rove, or know Rove, then please screw off now lol.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:04 pmSpudge,
Sir, I understand what you are saying and I agree that you have a war based upon deception going on in your country. But here's the problem. Maybe only 34% of you are behind this. But does that mean that only 34% of your military is at work? Are your munitions downgraded so that they only have 34% of their regular yield? Are the hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people who have been killed/murdered to be mourned at the discounted rate of 34%?
Your problems are internal and they are YOUR problems. However, the results are 100% real and affecting not just you, but the entire world. That whole avoiding responsibility thing that you all complain about, seems it’s an epidemic in your country.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:04 pmNow this is a ball team.
Spudge. Not only was there no declaration of war as you so aptly pointed out to our historically challenged friend, Randy, but its not a war if the we're the only ones on the battlefield.
There is an enemy to freedom. And its "RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM".
Religious extremists struck us on 911, they struck us in Oklahoma, they struck the US Cole, they torture people in Gitmo, and launched an invasion into a defenseless country and butchered 100,000 of their people.
Religious extremists have always been the anti-thesis to democracy.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:04 pmThe stupidity of the right never ceases to amaze me. Let me put this in as simple terms as possible so even they can understand.
Would you allow Pres. Hillary Clinton to have the same powers that you're giving Pres. GW Bush?
I'm not asking if you THINK Sen. Clinton will become president, because I don’t think she will. The point is: ask yourself what the worst case scenario (in your mind) for President and then think about that President having the same power that you don't give a crap about Pres. Bush having. If you're bothered one tiny little bit, then maybe it's a power that just shouldn't be granted to any President.
Then again, the ultra-radical right-wingers hate the rights of the average citizen and love big corporations, just like Pres. Bush. They are as anti-States rights and pro-big government just like Pres. Bush. They hate balanced budgets and love endless deficits and higher debt just like Pres. Bush.
Isn't it interesting that general statements about the 'Phants are all wrong, but all their general statements about the Progressives and Liberals are all correct? I guess you have to drink the kool-aide for that to make sense.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:06 pmKarl Rove,
There isn't one person in the United States of America who doesn't want terrorists wiretapped. That is what FISA is for and it works rather well. But we are not discussing that program in this thread. We are discussing the domestic surveilance program that is illegal under FISA.
Get your shit straight or get outta here.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:07 pm#39 - Yeah, but the "Domestic Surveillance Program" doesn't have the support of the majority of Americans.
Interesting how that works out when the rightist "spin" is removed and the accurate words are used.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:08 pmFunny. Bush is soooo hands on when it comes to spying on us to get the terrorists, but soooo hands off when it comes to things like, oh say watching the weather channel so he can save 3 states from drowning?
Why does he tell us the government can't help us from storms, but they can help us from terrorists?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:08 pm"there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so. " GWB , April 2004
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html
June 12th, 2006 at 5:09 pmI agree 100%. But, I cannot go out into th streets and start fixing the problems. I would be viewed as a murderer, not somebody who is trying to stop or country from falling into a dictatorship.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:10 pmLOL, sure Peg.
Just keep watching slappy, because its all coming out. I told you 6 months ago, and I'm telling you know. You need to ask yourself ONE SIMPLE question.
If they can start recording when you say, BUSH SUCKS, or whatever, HOW did they know you said it?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:12 pmSpudge,
Do you pay taxes? Do you go to work? Do you spend your money on unnecessary items?
Seems to me that there is plenty you can do that does not involve violence, it's just that you are not willing to do it.
So, bottom line is this: To Americans, the value of a Happy Meal for their obese child is greater than the value of the life of an Iraqi. Or a person from New Orleans, it seems.
What is it going to take? That's all I ask.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:16 pmDo you know how frusterating it is to be a Republican who knows that Democrats support the Terrorists Surveillance Program and the Iraq War yet over and over we hear from the Democratic leadership that "Thier hands are tied because the Republicans are in control"?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:17 pmAt the very least you folks could get on board with your own leaders.
Ahh what a stament Rovey:
"At the very least you folks could get on board with your own leaders. "
Our leaders need to get on board with us or they will be left behind
June 12th, 2006 at 5:22 pmWho's telling the bushes, the cheney's, the roves, the rumsfelds, etc., what to do?
Oh yeah, since we are talking about wiretapping. Who exactly control america's phone services?
So, maybe the question should also be, who's blackmailing our politicians, law enforcers, media. remember the monica lewinski bs. remember clinton was concerned about his conversations over the phone being listened to, even in the oval office.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:23 pmPost 51 > Americans for the most part live in fear of losing their employment! It's a REAL fear because the welfare system is kaput now and jobs are hard to find that pay well! So hard to take to the streets in America > recently illegal Mexican laborers learned this the hard way when they protested and next day they found out some other illegals took their jobs! When the US economy totally collapses, and the wealthy laugh at the unemployed in breadlines, then Americans might rise up in revolution?!
June 12th, 2006 at 5:27 pm#43
Comment by FLAVIUS `WORFEUS
I beg to differ. The enemy of freedom, of justice, of peace is profit. Sure, whether US sends ignorant kids to kill some poor people in name of freedom, well, of course is some sort of Fundamentalism, or whether terrorists leaders send poor, ignorant kids wrapped with plastic explosives (Why does Osama bomb himself and do his God a favor?) they are pursuing the same thing. PROFIT. Religious extremism is only a way to get it.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:27 pmRandy, It is NOT liberals who hate America, but Bush/Cheney, Rumsfeld, Kristol, Coulter and the neocon fascists DO HATE America and our freedoms. Cheney is on record for saying that he wants to restore the abuses of power that Nixon was guilty of. Bush himself said in his own words ""it would be a lot easier in a dictatorship....as long as I'm the dictator". Bush is a Hitler wannabe.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:28 pm[Deleted by admin]
June 12th, 2006 at 5:29 pmHey Randy!!! In case you missed it, let me point it out again.
CNN told the world in 2001 that investigators have "more flexibility and greater access to high-tech tools to pursue wiretaps of mobile phones, interception of e-mail messages, and monitoring of Web surfing and other PC-based communications."
You'd better get on the phone without delay and call the FBI and report the author of that article, Frank Thorsberg, for revealing national secrets, helping the terrorists, and putting us at risk for another attack. I'm sure you can go on the Internet and find Frank's phone number and address. Next you'll want to contact Bill Bennett, who would be an excellent witness for the prosecution since he advocates charging reporters with treason who reveal government secrets.
You think I'm being sarcastic? Hey...I'm just following your line of thought on the matter.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:31 pm#56
Democracy vs. Capitalism
how can you have a common consensus and profit-driven competition? at some point $ wins over people, and i think that point came about 100 years ago and the effects have been felt every since, every few years, a little more dramatic
June 12th, 2006 at 5:34 pm[Deleted by admin]
June 12th, 2006 at 5:34 pmWe americans want do a dang thing, until we are brought to our knees. Same as all citizens in all other countries, (including america) have done througout history.
We have not suffered enough. I only hope it want be to late.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:34 pmI'm surprised Tice hasn't been hit by a bus.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:35 pm#55-Jay,
Now, I know that I am sounding like an antagonist but that is not my motive. I offer up my observations for your review. I also offer up truths so that you can see them, and for some it may be the first time.
So, am I to understand that your "fear" of losing your job trumps everything? Seems your Patrick Henry would spin in his grave if he found out that the mantra had changed to "Give me liberty unless my demanding it causes me to lose my job."
And then, I'm to understand that your population will not revolt until your whole country collapses? Are you guys serious? Or, the more accurate question is, do you know that you are insane?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:35 pmResponse to #5.
Would Tice even be charged? Or get a day in court? Not in George W. Bush's Amerika...
June 12th, 2006 at 5:37 pmI beg to differ. The enemy of freedom, of justice, of peace is profit
Comment by Juan C — June 12, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
Well thats a valid point, and you're definately not incorrect.
I did not mean to imply however that the ONLY enemy to freedom is Religious Extremism.
There are many to be sure, and yours is at the top of the list. But this is clearly one enemy to freedom that attacks us from both side.
The Bushites believe that God wants them to invade and subdue the Muslim nations, and the Middle East, just like the Muslims believe God wants them to kill Christians and Jews.
Religious extremism is indeed the anti-thesis of what it means to be an American. Religious people are taught to "fear" God,and therefore they are ultimately ruled by fear.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:37 pm# 58.
You just spelled out our worst freakin nightmares.
God I hope thats not true, but I've seen the same data, and you are presenting it accurately .
June 12th, 2006 at 5:40 pmAny chance we could stick on the religious extremists in like the russian steps, so the rest of us can live in peace?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:40 pmHumanist. Where do you live? Have people revolted there? I guess that only in France or Cuba, people´s revolution have won...well, not exactly in France, but they have a great revolutionary tradition. I am not attacking you, but I dont believe in violence, therefore I think the change can come in some other form.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:40 pmLooks like Randy has bugged out. Darn.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:41 pmI'm sorry to have to point this out, but you all make it necessary. Freedom has only ONE enemy, complacency. So, in the grand scheme, you all are your own worst enemy.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:41 pmI pay my voluntary taxes to keep from going to jail.
Gotta feed the family.
Nope.
Did I directly help the people of New Orleans? Yes. I did not give my money to the Red Cross. I gave money directly to victims. I sent stuff they needed. I also successfully campaigned my company to donate PC and networking equipment to get the infrastructure back up and running. One project I think was the best was sending out door wireless access points to a group of doctors to create mobile hot spots that were on polls with wheels, so they could have Internet access where ever they needed it, in a heart beat.
Can I help the folks in Iraq? Not sure how, other than trying to stop our stupid occupation. But, Bush made it clear this weekend that we ain't going anywhere.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:42 pmPost 64 Humanist > Americans are job security orientated > I am talking in general and not about myself losing a job at the moment, since I just sold my business last year in Florida!
If you have a family in America, then you are concerned about keeping food on the table and paying the bills too! Corporations in America want their employees to be fearful, as well as overworked and underpaid > overweight and tired workers are not very capable of revolting!
Plus Bush has hinted that he would use the military to suppress any action against him!
June 12th, 2006 at 5:43 pmfunny... when Clinton was president, the FreeRepublic went a "little crazy"
FreeRepublic On FISA 11/30/2000 (A Trip Down Memory Lane)
http://phillybits.blogspot.com/2006/02/freerepublic-on-fisa-11302000-trip.html
"...Now, Clinton has expanded the powers to include not only electronic, but physical searches. ...
President Bill Clinton virtually killed off the Fourth Amendment when he approved a law to expand the already extraordinary powers of the strangest creation in the history of the federal judiciary. ...
Physical searches to gather foreign intelligence depend on secrecy, argued Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick. ....."
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a27337612f5.htm
comments on the FreeRepublic forum:
This is beyond frightening. Thank you for this find.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a27337612f5.htm#2
This does not bode well for continued freedom.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a27337612f5.htm#3
Any chance of Bush rolling some of this back? It sounds amazing on its face. Why didn't Wen Ho Lee just "disappear" into one of these Star Chambers, never to return?
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a27337612f5.htm#7
I don't see that as a possibility. This is wherein the danger lies in the precedent set by the Clinton criminal administration. God only knows who will be in power next, but there are no checks and balances anymore. This is exactly the SORT of thing I've been protesting all along. Libs just don't see this!
But when and where do they find this in the major media? They don't even know!
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a27337612f5.htm#15
funny how viewpoints change..........
June 12th, 2006 at 5:44 pm#66 I agree completely. #68 It is hard to believe...to kill 3000 people just to dispatch the Patriot Act, and attack Afghanistan and Iraq. Well, maybe not, a good economist can calculate the profit/cost ratio, which is all they care.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:46 pmThat is human nature Jay. Water, food,shelter are our basic needs. Once those are met then we work on more esoteric pursuits.
Humanist,
Western civilization has come a long way in the last 200 years. I realize that we are not perfect. but America, and Europe are doing, I think a good job of keeping the traditions of Liberty and democracy alive. Do we still have a long way to go?
yes.
we cannnot solve everything overnight.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:48 pm[Deleted by admin]
June 12th, 2006 at 5:50 pmAnd some wonder why whistle blowers now will not be protected under the Constitution?
June 12th, 2006 at 5:52 pmThere was a reason, a long term chess game of moves taken by Bush&Co to allow all of this to coalesce - to their advantage, of course - and we are the losers.
Yes, humanist, the white middle class will have to come to their knees before this country revolts. Until and unless this happens, forget about it. At present the lower class wage earners are filling it hard.
What can i say, people are selfish. It has to happen to them.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:57 pmOne thing that never fails to amaze me is when someone says he loves his country, yet supports an administration that is doing everything to destroy the very principals that defined this country. I beg to differ, but it's those of us who want to preserve our liberties and everything else that (once) made this country great, who are the ones who truly love our country.
June 12th, 2006 at 5:59 pm#69 : I live on Earth, just like the rest of you. Does my physical location serve to validate my speech? If I'm from a remote location in Chile, does that then immediately discount everything I say? Is content immaterial? Would I need to show that I can walk on water before you will believe what I say? I'm just curious.
I'm struggling with some of the logic that is on display here. I have questioned why you all don't revolt, and I hear that you fear the repercussions. Not the repercussions of death, or torture, or indefinite confinement, mind you, but the repercussion of, gasp, losing your job.
So, people, real people - women, children, men, and grandmothers - are murdered every day in your name, but you would rather have that happen then for you to lose your job. Because, God forbid that you might have to find ANOTHER job, or have to sell that Hummer, or boat, or quad, or vacation home in the hills. Is this really representative of American values?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:00 pm#71- Humanist, please go to 'redstate' and tell them the same things you are telling us. Then come back and tell us what happened.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:07 pmJune 12th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
funny how viewpoints change……….
Comment by peg — June 12, 2006 @ 5:44 pm
Peg - that was awesome! Thanks for posting that...
June 12th, 2006 at 6:09 pmKranzy,
I understand what you are saying but I don't believe it to be truthful. You do not advance liberty with torture and murder. You do not advance democracy by imposing your will upon others, whether within your borders or outside of them. A case can easily be made that you all are hurting the causes of liberty and democracy, really.
Yet I do understand that these things take time to fix. When are you going to start fixing them? And how many bombs and bullets will you expend while you are debating how to save yourselves? Seems to me that your yard is a mess and your chosen method of fixnig it is not to clean it up, but rather to destroy everyone else's yard so that then yours does not look so bad.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:10 pmplease go to ‘redstate’ and tell them the same things you are telling us. Then come back and tell us what happened.
Comment by Cyra Brown — June 12, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
He'd get banned after two posts?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pm[Moderated by Admin.]
June 12th, 2006 at 6:11 pmCyra,
I wish I could, but I cannot post there. Although, I was unaware that the military that is killing innocent people belonged solely to "Red State". Are you folks a democracy or just a bunch of random warlord regimes?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:14 pmModerated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 6:19 pm#86- That is my point, friend. He sits here, lecturing US about the actions we despise, like we support BushCo, and their continued evil actions. I am beginning to lose my patience over it, and I think he needs to talk to the true BushCo supporters. It would be helpful to him, I think.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:19 pmA retired police officer entered the department of Homeland security, apparently today, using a fraudulent ID to allow him access.
The ID was a fake Mexican consulate card. The funny thing is a Mexican consulate card is not valid ID for DHS, but he was let in anyway.
The really interesting part was his home address on the fake ID, read 123 Fraud Blvd, Tijuana Mexico.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:23 pmthe military take orders from the civilian control. We cannot change our civilian control for another 2 years. As far as electing a president goes anyway. With midterms coming, there is much hope that a change of leadership will help alter the course that has been set by our current leaders. The only two options other then a change due to election would be:
1.) impeachment of the president, and his staff, either for breaking US laws, or international laws.
2.) a violent rebellion in the streets.
To be fair humanist, the war in Iraq is not supported by a majority of US populace. It was at one time, but the lies to justify the war, and the continued "stay the course" mantra is wearing thin. You are correct that invasion and torture does not help to spread the ideals of democracy. That is why I and many others have followed these stories, and at least tried to force the government to acknowledge its role. No I don't like the war in iraq, never did. I have done everything within my power to help change the course of this country. I don't know that we are sure of our course. bush has gotten us into an ugly rock and hard place situation. One we should have never been involved in.
As for some of your other questions. I do think American's need to learn how to live "small". We are to enamored with big houses, fast cars, and lots of material possesions. I do my best to live "small" I recycle what I can. Drive a fuel effecient vehicle, live in a small home etc. I cannot change the habits of my fellow americans, but I can change my own.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:25 pm#90-Cyra,
I am lecturing you on nothing, I am speaking truths and asking questions. So far I have clearly pointed out that it is not the republican or neo-con army that is killing innocent people, it is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA's army.
I have also questioned what it is going to take for you all to revolt. The two answers that I have received are:
1. When it all collapses and there is nothing left.
and
2. When it is convenient.
Are these truths uncomfortable for you? Are you going to do something about it or are you just going to complain that I'm pointing them out to you?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:27 pmI've been cooking this NSA thing in my mind and I just can't get past the reluctance of the Democratic members of the Intel commitee to, let the cat out of the bag as someone early suggested. This can only lead me to believe another country like France , Russia or China is the one we've been spying on. Congressional leaders respect , IMHO, civil liberties for their own citizenry but will generally screw the foreigners. RANDY gets the "Jane you ignorant slut" reply as far as I'm concerned.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:32 pm#92-Kranzy,
It is pleasing to hear that your social conscience is intact. And I congratulate you on your efforts to live a more respectful life and not one of gluttony.
I disagree, however, that you have to wait another 2 years before you can change things. I would be willing to wager every possession that I have (sorry, not very much) that if 150,000,000 Americans went on strike that you would be out of Iraq in a week. That's what surprises me so, you all have the power yet you ignore it, almost as if you are afraid of it.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:34 pmStuff You Should Read...
NSA Blocks Whistleblower From Telling House About Illegal Activities...
June 12th, 2006 at 6:37 pm#88- Yes, we are a Democracy. A democracy that is fighting for it's continued existence, against an enemy whose only goal is the total destruction of that democracy. If we have been slow to respond, perhaps it is because we NEVER expected it to be something we would ever be facing. Our own President wants to destroy our Democracy? I never would have believed it myself, but it is true, tragically so, I have just admitted it already. And right now, the Republicans have a stranglehold on all branches of the Government. We are very limited in our ability to act. The Left does have respect for the rule of law, and so we wait. But not in silence. Are you an American citizen?
June 12th, 2006 at 6:37 pmThe accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.
James Madison, 1788 (federalist papers #47)
June 12th, 2006 at 6:44 pmModerated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 6:50 pm#97-Cyra,
I am a citizen of Earth, just like you are. To continue carving up the world into segregated societies is relevant only for racists and bigots, but that's my opinion. However, it is important to realize that the world shrunk into just one society the moment that the two superpowers (now only one) constructed weapons of mass destruction (nuclear missiles) that have the ability to reach anywhere on the planet.
As far as who has respect for what and which party is better than the other, I implore you to leave that trap. Labels negate the content, including that of character and are an unfair generalization. To blame all your woes on republicans, or whichever label/party you choose to blame, is a fool’s errand and a convenient way to shirk your responsibilities.
I fear that the hell that awaits ALL Americans is that of eternally serving the innocent people whose lives you have so violently and callously stolen so as to avoid an uncomfortable inconvenience.
June 12th, 2006 at 6:57 pmAmerica, please put your shopping bags down, don't drink yourself into a stupor and spend a few hours researching on the internet.
Shopping and drinking aren't as much fun in a dictatorship. We are all living in Carl Rove's narrative.
Back to the Zarqawi marathon. Considering he never existed, he made quite a name for himself.
June 12th, 2006 at 7:01 pmModerated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 7:11 pmModerated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 7:44 pm#100- You say labels negate the content, and are an unfair generalization. You then go on and make your own unfair generalizations, about me, and then "ALL Americans." "All Americans" looks alot like a 'label' to me, and could be seen as a 'generalization', by others as well. Earthling, I thank you for your input, but I feel that we will have to keep on our own paths, but I wish you good journey on yours.
June 12th, 2006 at 7:48 pmModerated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 7:49 pm#104-Cyra,
I hear what you are saying and appreciate your willingness to listen.
Just one point of clarification, I used "Americans" to reference your association, not as a label. That's a major distinction. My use of "All Americans" is in pointing out the responsibilities that come with that association. To oversimplify, you cannot join a club and then attempt to distance yourself from their actions.
I appreciate your candor and civil tone. I also greatly appreciate your good wishes and can assure you that you have mine as well.
Onward...
June 12th, 2006 at 7:58 pmComment by Randy is most telling: "...not listening to millions and millions of phone conversations"
June 12th, 2006 at 8:56 pmYeah, right. We all know the technology for such an undertaking does not exist. (Please see me nodding and winking as I say that!)
"They are doing what they have to protect us from another 9/11" Yes, of course. The people who at the very least facilitated the attacks of Sept 11 2001 are now trying to help. If the attacks were perpetrated by Americans or if any American Citizen was complicit then it might make sense to spy on Americans. Refresh my memory: Exactly how many American Citizens were involved in the Attack?
"Are many of you supporting Al Qaeda and fearful that you will be caught?" Wow! That is just about as illogical as it could possibly be. This is an emotionally charged statement which has no connection to reality. (One of you College educated types could probably name the falacy for me but I don't need a PHD to see this makes no sense.) If the Founding Fathers believed that the Govt can be trusted to search only the homes of lawbreakers there would be no need for the Bill of Rights. The bottom line is this: There is no legitimate reason to violate the Constitution.
"It makes me sick how much liberals hate America " This is just a blanket accusation; it is meaningless. It is like me asking Randy, "Do you still beat your wife?" (I'm pretty sure this statement contains at least two falacies)
I agree with Ben Franklin: Those who give up Liberty for Security will have neither. This is the kind of wisdom we should be listening to. No matter what anyone says I believe these men knew what they were talking about, unlike Randy here.
Moderated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 9:00 pmTice is the man...he's the fellow that has the goods. Famed Pentagon Papers Dan Ellsburg in a recent online piece hinted that someone in the Beltway has the goods all locked away somewhere that can blow the whistle on the entire REAL reason we went to war with Iraq that will call a spade a spade and show the true undeniable colors of the Bush White House just as his (Ellsberg) copying and release of the Pentagon Papers during the Vietnam era. Again, Tice is the man who has the goods on the NSA and what the REAL story is behind the domestic spying program. He's got it all locked away like Ellsberg did. Ellsberg risked going to jail for the rest of his life to expose what he knew had to be exposed. Will Tice be the Ellsberg of our time? We can only hope that his patriotism will lead him to do what he feels has to be done. Unfortunately, I don't think the mainstream media is going to be as accomodating as they were in Ellsberg's day. Let's hope he gets his say!
June 12th, 2006 at 9:16 pmHow about after we win the war on Terra, which is obviously happening with the recent death of Zarqawi, the NSA programme(s) are fully investigated. There would be no national security threat with Terra all gone, so we can see everything the NSA was doing. With all that data, we can figure out how much the NSA programmes really helped end the war on Terra. Alright, just kidding.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:20 pmIt makes me sick how much liberals hate America and are willing to put us at risk of another attack in their efforts to regain their power.
Comment by Randy — June 12, 2006 @ 4:22 pm
9/11 happened on Bush's watch - the neocons were suppose to protect us and they FAILED. Bush was handed a memo on August 6 that he failed to act upon. Instead, Bush went golfing. He don't give a rat's ass about the safety of American. It's not the liberals that hate American, it people like YOU that hate America because you disregard the Constitution of the US. You would be happy to have the US become a faciast State.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:24 pmYou sound like you would have been one of those people who appeased Hitler thinking they could satisfy him.
Comment by Randy — June 12, 2006 @ 4:30 pm
There you go again - the righties using that "Hilter" term. If a leftie uses that term, all hell breaks loose. But it sure is okay when nazi right uses it.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:29 pm#17
I dare you and your fellow libs to make this an issue this fall. You will lose, guaranteed. In case you haven't figured it out yet, we are winning the war on terror. Last week's elections proved that your strategy of the "culture of coruption" failed miserably and it wasn't due to lack of effort either. Just compare the number of media hits on Cunningham to Jefferson. Both are just as guilty but I think we both know who got more air time and Jefferson is still in office! Whats up with that? My prediction for the midterm elections will be a wash. Dems will maybe pick up one or two seats in the house and possibly one in the senate but certaintly not take either one. Sorry to spoil your party early. Hope you can still put that cork back in!
June 12th, 2006 at 9:41 pm#81 Humanist. Yes, I do believe it has something to say about whether or not one can revolt. My mother is from Chile and she suffered Pinochet´s dictatorship whereas my father was in Argentina suffering pretty much the same thing. If you had kids there, the only thing you would want to do is to keep them alive, so it was really difficult, I guess. I dont remember.
I agree with almost everything you have said. I criticize US middle class because they have been the demanding force that drives the government towards the plundering of the Earth in search of so called commodities. But there is a crisis in the Western civilization, I guess. We have more cars yet we get to places lately; we have cell phones yet we are incommunicated as humans; we have the greatest telecommunication network in history yet we are very bad informed...and people is making other choices. People like the guys/girls you read here. There is a difference.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:41 pmLOL, whats the war on Terra?
Is that Bush's real name for his war?
The war on Terra (Planet Earth)?
June 12th, 2006 at 9:44 pmRandi seems to have forgotten that the US armed saddam in the first place ,Rumsfeld himself was the arms broker I believe and now were disarming him ,wow talk about 2 ends against the middle,
June 12th, 2006 at 9:47 pmAnd then, I’m to understand that your population will not revolt until your whole country collapses? Are you guys serious? Or, the more accurate question is, do you know that you are insane?
Comment by Humanist — June 12, 2006 @ 5:35 pm
Your comment sounds like you are suggesting a Civil War. We've been there, done that and really don't want to solve our problems through that means again. If it were so damn easy to change things in this nation then the Blue States would have succeeded in '04 to become the United States and the Red States would become the nation of Dumfu*kistan and the war on terror would be over.
I don't know what nation you are a citizen of but I do know that you don't understand what it means to be an American citizen. I understand the terror that our nation inflicted on the world and I am not proud of it. I do resent having someone from another nation sticking their nose into our business (how we govern). So either provide some civil solution or stay out American politics.
June 12th, 2006 at 9:54 pmModerated by Admin
June 12th, 2006 at 10:00 pm"I encourage everyone (before this comment is deleted) to email TP and express your disatisfaction with the constant squashing of free speech they do here.
We can make or break this site and organization and if they continue to behave like Republcians we must boycott.
American’s deserve allies that support free speech.
Comment by Stupid Republcans — June 12, 2006 "
Good luck with that!!! I have been banned before for doing the same thing that I now see at least 5 other people doing on this very thread, talking about 9/11.
I guess they can't deal with someone who delivers facts, and not just rehtoric????
I have already started telling people to avoid this web site due to their obvious censorship.
June 12th, 2006 at 10:20 pm[...] NSA Blocking Whistleblower From Telling Committee About Shocking, Illegal Activities Last month, ThinkProgress reported that NSA whistleblower Russell Tice would meet with members of the Senate Armed Services Committee to discuss undisclosed unlawful activity that the Agency has engaged in. “I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them,†Tice said. [...]
June 12th, 2006 at 11:22 pmOkay, I'm a cynic.
On the one hand, the bush administration is in fact spying on us, sorting through every phone call, searching for text and "processing" the calls that have the text.
This falls on the heels of recent rulings that restrict whistle-blowers.
We are angry at bush for this. With good reason. Yet there is actually DEBATE about the possible legality. Spector is or isn't going to retro-actively legalize bush's behavior.
It has been widely reported in the media. I mean, the friggin NYT broke the story.
I once heard some advice that seemed, well, extreme at the time. "You must always assume your government is lying to you. That's just how bad they are." I was naive then. Now, I kind of work from that assumption, at least in part. Most people don't consider this.
Well, the NYT has been the, yeah, right, liberal and respected paper of record, and gosh, if they're behind bush, or equivocate about legalities that are clear to almost any sentient being outside of the US. I think it's reasonable to assume that in large measure, they probably don't tell the truth.
So, when I read "Tice Admits Being a Source for The New York Times", I wonder, was he supposed to?
You see, something that is happening in our world, in humanity, is that things are happening that shouldn't be happening, and the fact that these things go completely unreported and uninvestigated makes me wonder, "Are we ever told the truth?"
9/11, suicide bombers, 7/7, shootings on London trains...we are attacking ourselves. The enemy is clearly within.
So, on the other hand, isn't it worth investigating publicly to find out if this is all a set up? Isn't it conceivable that Tice, somehow out of this INCREDIBLE secrecy and "black operations" goes to the NYT, tells a story that isn't true, but it seems all the more true because by now we expect our government to be obvious in their behavior (the ruling against free speech to keep whistleblowers silent and we hate them for it,) with a story about selecting words as obvious as "jihad" to track communications in a country of, um, how many people? and each and every time that word is used the information is "processed" and we are tracked and we just hate them hate them hate them for it.
I mean, at this point, I wonder if the whole point is that we are SUPPOSED to be pissed off.
The end result being, of course, something rather simple. It shuts us up.
Now, what more would you want if you are the party of the few rich and wealthy. I mean, the kind of wealth that can buy senators and congressmen and newspapers and websites and, well, public opinion.
Where else on earth are policies so frequently set that are counter to the public good, cheeringly, by the very public that gets screwed?
Even an honest reporter, who's heart is in the right place could be forced to participate in this kind of scenario.
I'm just saying there's enough doubt that there must be a public investigation. And uncovering the whole story, regardless of what it may be, will finally get rid of these parasites.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:30 pmUnbelievable, it was your first comment that spurred me to suggest the alternative.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:33 pmScrew Bush and NSA. Shays and Kucinich ought to interview Tice no matter the response. Their responsibility is to US, not NSA.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:35 pmAnd unbelievable, I don't mean that bitchy. It's a question I've been asking myself a lot in the last several years. Kind of like another question: "Why do reporters never ask the right questions? The really incisive, usually OBVIOUS questions? and then tells us we know the "whole story"?
June 12th, 2006 at 11:35 pmAnd why are we talking impeachment (and censure) over this issue when there have been countless other more egregious crimes committed by this, thief and his hounds?
June 12th, 2006 at 11:38 pmWhen the media tells us we care about something, we usually do, whether we did or not.
They told us how much "public concern" there is about this issue. Even FOX was on this one at first, remember? (Of course, they've changed their tune.)
They also told us that kerry was a flip flopper, that gore was dull (and possibly gay,) that we didn't want to suffer through the long legal battle that would inevitably take place if gore didn't give up on challenging bush's win in 2000, that the last election was fair...
It is easy to tell people what they believe, especially if you do things to help that along, whether genuine or not.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:41 pmI'm not so good at this cut and paste stuff... What I meant to say was:
Well, the NYT has been the, yeah, right, liberal and respected paper of record, and gosh, if they’re behind bush, or equivocate about legalities that are clear to almost any sentient being outside of the US, then they're just telling the truth or living up to their lofty journalistic standards because as a liberal beacon (thomas fried man, and jailbird,) then the truth is the only thing that can force them to support the bush policies. And sometimes they're mean to him. Either way, they have a way of making us believe them. They're liberal. No they're not. Their impartial and go wherever the truth takes them.
When they tell the truth, in some way, they are probably lying. When they lie, it comes off as truth, or at least the "complete" story.
So I choose to assume they are lying and take it from there.
June 12th, 2006 at 11:50 pmAmericans will "take to the streets" only if the cost of Skoal doubles. Besides, isn't this week a "My Name is Earl" marathon? Remember Maslow ? Can't ascend into heady issues until you can pay the rent and have a roof over your head.
June 13th, 2006 at 12:00 amIf Tice is able to get real and damaging information out, then it's all for real and we can rid ourselves of the chimp.
If he isn't, or if he doesn't, then two things:
1. It was all a set-up.
2. What about the lovely and patriotic Siebel Edmonds? She too has something to tell that is being held back by this administration known for withholding information (and not being made to suffer for it.) It is easy to be manipulated by a beautiful woman.
Personally, I hope Tice has something to tell and that it's good. I'd hate to think Siebel could be so heartless.
Could she be a patsy?
You see, we have to know. They don't want us to know, but we do get lots of "damaging" information. And still the chimp walks free among us.
Why aren't leaders of other countries threatening to arrest these war criminals if they step on their soil? I mean, these are war criminals!
Europe is just waiting for their slice, but what about other countries?
Were the Geneva Conventions set up just so we believe we are safe? that there are laws in place to protect us?
Ah, the ravages of dick-tater ship.
Dick Tatertot. On files it's Tatertot/Dick.
June 13th, 2006 at 12:00 amIt is my sincere hope that Mr. Tice wants to reveal
June 13th, 2006 at 1:03 ama secret program that I and many thousands of
Americans know exists but we have no voice
or credibility. It is a surveillance program that only
the vilest lowest form of creature would participate
in. Since it involves human brainwaves and psychological
torture, no one wants to deal with it's implications
and when informed they tend to deny that it is even possible.
Those that speak about it are immediately excused
as mentally imbalanced which makes for the "perfect
storm" of deniability for the perpetrators. If you would like to
know the NSA's biggest secret, GOOGLE,
"John St. Clair Akwei vs.NSA"
and pay close attention to the section on "Remote
monitoring/tracking of individuals". In my humble opinion
all of the items mentioned in the court complaint
are true, ABSOLUTELY true. The govt. admits that they are
capable of something called "Remote Viewing", which is
supposed to be a psychic phenomenon, look it up.
It is my belief that "Remote Viewing" is an electronic
operation. I hope it is this technology that Mr. Tice wishes
to expose. This technology needs to be revealed to the world
as no one is free any longer. The ethical and legal ramifications
are enormous. The technology that makes this possible is being
used to enslave mankind instead of help mankind. The worms
that operate this technology are Caligula/Nazi SS degenerates.
I'm sick of these people, I going public.
Karl Rove,
"The Terrorist Surveillance Program is the most important tool we have against terrorists."
There is no terrorist threat. There are no such things as "Muslim Terrorists".
If there were a real terrorist threat, then the US govt would seal the southern border and would be too busy to spy on Quakers and peace groups. Its not like Quakers have a history of violence or that there aren't enough Moslems to spy on, is it? If there were a real terorist threat, they would thoroughly search all containers coming into the US, but less than 5% get searched.
"Terrorism" is just a giant con job to scare the stupid people into letting the fascists have power.
The only threat to American freedom comes from Democrats and Republicans aka The Fascists. Fortunately, the traits that make them want to be Democrats or Republicans also make them prone to over-extension. It will be fun watching the superpower collapse!
June 13th, 2006 at 2:24 am"I guess that only in France or Cuba, people´s revolution have won…"
Don't forget the very successful people's revolution in Iran in the late 1970s.
And Vietnam was very much a people's revolution, at least as much as the American Revolution of 1776.
America's problem is that they did not purge the royalists back then andhave allowed more "elitists" into their country since then. This was the same problem that the Iranian Revolution had in the late 1950s. They got it right the second time, maybe Americans will as well!
June 13th, 2006 at 2:36 amDear Slave Randy,
Exactly when did you misplace your balls?
While our troops are dying to protect your feeedoms, you can't wait to give it up. Da master would never do anything bad to me..........You feel you have nothing to hide. According to who? bush has given himself the power to put you in a secret jail on secret charges without any oversight, for as long as he sees fit. If he makes a mistake, too bad for you.
How do you know what the NSA is monitoring? Answer: you can't and don't. But you believe what you are told and can't wait to give up the freedom that many Americans died for. Your hate Freedom and love Big Government because you are afraid. Afraid as a tiny little bunny rabbit shaking in the corner.
You have aided in your oun deballing by Big Government, Now deballed, you sit at home at your keyboard in your skirt and your cute matching top with the pink poodle print; you just know that dady bush and uncle dick won't ever think of listening to your phone calls. That would be all icky poo.
Tomorrow, first time in the morning, go to your doctor. Get a big shot of testosterone, read the Constitution, and think of all the Americans who died to keep your freedom. Then if you wish real hard and click your heels 3 times, your balls will grow back.
LBJ
June 13th, 2006 at 2:38 amHumanist-
June 13th, 2006 at 3:00 amIf you're not from America I'm sure the whole process seems weird to you. But, yes, we are gearing up for a Revolution in America. The process will take several election cycles to complete and it may not be as easy going as we like in revolutions; but the process has begun and cannot be retracted now. If you want to watch look into how power changes hands in government. Elections are mostly local; congressmen and Senators come from local districts and various states. The jerks who seized power here have corrupted the voting system and that will take time to correct and progressives have been compliant with the liberal meme for far too long but the people are awakening and becoming angry. Don't look for massive street action; that's not how our Social Movements begin. Massive rallys and public demonstrations are likely but they will be largely peaceful. We've had several similar crossroads in America and I can tell you this. Americans are slow to boil and too trusting of their leaders but when they turn they do so decisively and forcefully. Witness the great Civil Rights Movement and the Progressive Movement for context. Look for spokespeople who relate to the Progressive Movement again today and in the battles ahead.
#119
Ah, but when American politics so very often results in the bombing of other nations, the rest of the world tends to take an interest. Their survival often depends on it.
June 13th, 2006 at 3:41 amOnce again it is Dennis Kucinich. Not Hillary, Kerry or Pelosi but Kucinich. This man, Murtha and about a dozen others, are what I wish the Democratic Party was all about.
June 13th, 2006 at 5:44 amAs we draw closer to another election our party turns against the people and to the right again. I hope Kucinich remains steadfast. I hope that he gets to interview that brave person from the NSA.
This is your country...
This is your country on oil!!
I once heard Mike Warnke ask, "are you doing God's will, or your will in God's name?" The same needs to be asked of our elected leaders... "Are you doing the People's will... or your will in the People's name???"
June 13th, 2006 at 6:33 am
June 13th, 2006 at 7:34 amTo Flavius #50
Here's how you are ID'd: You call someone, and leave your name and number, because they are not there.....Your voice is automatically 'ID'd', forever more, by IS programs which are designed to only do that.....use your imagination a bit....
...and you thought Stalinist Russia was bad...
..."wait'll they get a load'a me"...
-GWB-
June 13th, 2006 at 7:54 amAnother Frozen Scandal!
Your Welcome America!
Remember We Lie and Coverup for a more Transparent Government!
One Day we will actually, maybe, try to balance a budget.
June 13th, 2006 at 7:55 amBut hell, why Lie?
We just want to keep you in debt!
And Boy have we got Debt and Bigger Government!
Yes!
Get to Work Joe Troll you and your kids owe me your lives, and your land. When will you pay me?
No!??
To IRAQ with you Christian Soldiers!
I will stay behind and freeze more Scandals.
Enjoy Hell Joe Troll!!
Their noose around all of our necks tightens daily.
June 13th, 2006 at 8:40 amThe fact that they control government, the courts, the msm and the elections didn't just happen.
It's now against their law to report their illegal activities.
They will not be held accoutable by law.
They OWN law.
November rapidly approaches.
With junior's, dickey's & congress' approval rating as low as it can get, there will be no bullshit excuse available for them retaining seats.
If any of the public buys the bullshit that will be spewed about 'poor voter turn-out', or, 'wow, what a close race in a republican strong-hold, the repub. barely won', they will prove themselves more gullable than they have been up to this point.
It is time to organize the response they deserve for what they've done, for what they're doing.
Tice isnt the only whistleblower that is being gagged by the Chimpy fascist regime. There's a woman FBI translator who is also under a gag order. We now live in a police state where any information critical of the regime is repressed, and any regime member who commits crimes is not prosecuted by the regime.
Now that Rove is free to electioneer while collecting a government paycheck (which is also illegal), the GOP is going to win in November by bashing gays and Mexicans...and hacking electronic voting machines. The fix is in.
Welcome to the New World Order
June 13th, 2006 at 10:08 amPOOR OLE RANDY! You guys should get off this poor soul's back. Can't you see he is one of the thirty percenters, just trying to do his job? He can't remember that the reason for going into Iraq was those alleged WMDs and that alleged imminent threat? He just listens to the neocon line and really believes that we actually went into Iraq to "take freedom to the Iraqi people." He is just trying to continue trying to make the American people believe that. Just let him alone and he will go away!
June 13th, 2006 at 10:26 amGood idea, ignore the Chimpylovers and their Bizarro World Orwellian alternate universe. They have no facts and they have nothing to say.
June 13th, 2006 at 10:28 amThe NSA spying goes far beyond mere illegal phone tapping. It also involves illegal, warrantless vacuum-hosing of ALL internet traffic, particularly emails. They are doing with emails more than they are doing with analog phones.
Seriously people, you need to take steps to wreck their intent. Learn about PGP and OpenPG to encrypt emails. Go for anonymous, protected email services like hushmail and the like. Implement Tor anonymous proxying so that no one, including your ISP, can hold a listing of the websites you visit (and hand them over to the Brownshirts of government) AND prevent NSA tracking of your web movements.
If you have nothing to hide, then you wont mind me coming to your place periodically and unannounced to rumage around. I'll go through your garbage, your pockets, your shelves, your drawers, your computer, your diary or journal, your files. You have nothing to hide so you wont mind me getting into everything will you. I'll also mount a pinhole camera in various rooms of your house/apartment so i can peek in on what you are doing from time to time. You have nothing to hide so you wont mind.
June 13th, 2006 at 11:36 amIf the Bush Administration isn't doing anything wrong, why are they so secretive about everything? When the EFF sues AT&T? "National Security". When we want to know about those high-level energy meetings Darth Cheney had? "National Security". The FBI had no problem releasing John Kerry's FBI file, but what about Dick Cheney's? "National Security".
It looks to me like the Bush Administration has a whole lot to hide.
June 13th, 2006 at 11:52 amOh come on Randy! Wake the hell up. Giving up your civil rights does not make you an American, standing up for them does. The Bush/Hitler/Cheney/Rove admistration is slowly but surely putting to rest anyone who will try to expose their wrongdoings or plans for world domination. Remember H.W. Bush senior and his N.W.O. speech? Who was Prescott Bush and why did he support the Nazi's?
June 13th, 2006 at 12:14 pmWhen you are sick and tired of being sick and tired, you will do something. People do not change unless something so catastrophic occurs that their old system no longer works. Even then, many choose to suffer or die rather than change. A reading, a healing, a blessing, nor anything else is going to do any good unless someone already wants to change.
June 13th, 2006 at 12:58 pmI think you may be right . When the people over in that Russian republic thought that the vote was fixed in their election, they went in and threw the guy out. Other countries have riots. In the USSA its, pass me another beer and has the game started?
No wonder the NEOCONS think we are sheep.
Some countries give a tax credit to those who vote. Maybe that would work here.
June 13th, 2006 at 1:44 pmWell..looks like Randy got an earful. Bad for us is that Randy's not alone in his thinking. It's his kind of thinking that got Bush past two stolen elections. It's his kind of thinking that's stacked the House and Senate. War has been declared..but not on another country. ON US!. The poor, our children, our elderly..the entire middle class. Look at the tax breaks, the "no-child" act, social services being cut. In one state alone last year a NY state school district barely had the money for school nurses. How many of you went to a school nurse growing up? Anyone play sports? Well none of that in this regime. Never before has the dollar been so weak and our deficit so bad. And since every Super Patriot is of Randy's mindset on 9/11...Randy and others like him should do some real basic research on how hot jet fuel burns and compare it to the heat coeficient of the steel in the towers. How come crime scene evidence from the site was shipped all the way to China. Oh and Randy..thermite burns for days. That would explain how fires can burn deep in the levels of ground zero with no oxygen. Hmm Randy, controlled demolition plus thermite=domestic intervention! You did 9/11 cause Randy..you voted for Bush!
June 13th, 2006 at 2:34 pmGo here about "NSA/NSC/DOD/FBI/DOJ" using NSA wiretapping to:
--facilitate a surveillance on former SD Senator TOM DASCHLE's ex chief of staff RICH GORDON who was later murdered with a DARPA Directed Energy Weapon that induced a fatal brain tumor;
--facilitate a surveillance used to murder former Yankton, SD, PD Sgt. MARK DEFENBAUGH in a mysterious head on car wreck by a "NSA/DOD mind control" candidate...six days before...
--Yankton, SD, attorney JOHn KABIESEMAN died in a mysterious staged car wreck;
--facilitate illegal surveillance of Rich Gordon' s brother, DR. MARK GORDON in St. Paul, Mn;
--facilitate the illegal surveillance and neutralization of Omaha attorney LEROY ROGERS who suffered a mysterious brain tumor caused by DEW;
--facilitate illegal surveillance of Univ South Dakota School of Law professor JON VAN PATTEN, wheeled out of Sioux Valley hospital after being targeted with a DEW;
--facilitated CHENEY's OFFICE of PLANS wiretapping on former SD Senator TOM DASCHLE's 2004 November campaign in Sioux Falls, SD.
Go here....for the story about "how BUSH got outed on NSA felonies" and "how he and Cheney tried to cover it up....
http://control-alt-delete.ca/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=6454
June 13th, 2006 at 4:37 pmThanks, Peg, for the linkage.
June 13th, 2006 at 4:50 pmhttp://www.kucinich.com
June 13th, 2006 at 5:57 pmTice does not have a history of whistle blowing!
He admits to being a source for the NYT`s articles, But
He has consistently claimed never to have discussed classified matter with people without a security clearance!
Warrantless snooping was classified when the Times learned of it, more than a *year* before publishing it. In fact, classification is why he says he wants to speak to the spooky senate comities behind bug proof closed doors in the first place!
Also the technology to reasonably accurate spot individual words in telephone quality audio recordings of speech from many different speakers in lots of different dialects of many languages using substantially different vocabularies without closly following the formal grammar does, as for is publicly known, not exist! (Remember Tice claim that he didn't disclose classified stuff...) In fact German intelligence (Big NSA friend, see Crypto AG) was caught in a mess after covertly funding development of such a technology without success and a former NSA chief is on the record as saying he is glad he didn't spend more on research for this. (IIRC james Bamford`s Body of secrets)
Also very revealing is that the NSA turned to outside academic help in this topic decades ago... They wouldn't have done that if they had useful success rates in this practically unsolvable problem.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:59 amTice does not have a history of whistle blowing!
He admits to being a source for the NYT`s articles, But
He has consistently claimed never to have discussed classified matter with people without a security clearance!
Warrantless snooping was classified when the Times learned of it, more than a *year* before publishing it. In fact, classification is why he says he wants to speak to the spooky senate comities behind bug proof closed doors in the first place!
Also the technology to reasonably accurate spot individual words in telephone quality audio recordings of speech from many different speakers in lots of different dialects of many languages using substantially different vocabularies without closly following the formal grammar does, as for is publicly known, not exist! (Remember Tice claim that he didn't disclose classified stuff...) In fact German intelligence was caught in a mess after covertly funding development of such a technology without success and a former NSA chief is on the record as saying he is glad he didn't spend more on research for this. (IIRC james Bamford`s Body of secrets)
Also very revealing is that the NSA turned to outside academic help in this topic decades ago... They wouldn't have done that if they had useful success rates in this practically unsolvable problem.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:03 amThe stupidity of the left never ceases to amaze me.
Stupidity is supporting a lying, murderous bastard to continue to erode the civil liberties many man and women have fought and died for. People like the idiot who posted the above statement should STFU and enlist in the army to support this illegal administrations illegal war. I have no respect for people who think it's okay to go to war so long as they or their children or spouse aren't made to go. Chickshit bastards are paving the road to hell for America. Aren't you repukes proud?
June 14th, 2006 at 2:32 pm