EXCLUSIVE: Majority Leader Boehner’s Confidential Strategy Memo For Thursday’s Iraq Debate
EXCLUSIVE: Majority Leader Boehner’s Confidential Strategy Memo For Thursday’s Iraq Debate
On Thursday, the House of Representatives will hold a debate on the Iraq war. Media reports say Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) “hopes to match the serious, dignified tone of deliberation that preceded the Gulf war, in 1991.”
ThinkProgress has obtained a “Confidential Messaging Memo” from Boehner instructing his caucus to conduct a very different kind of deliberation. Here’s a quick summary:
1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.”
2. Attack opponents ad hominem. The memo describes those who opposes President Bush’s policies in Iraq as “sheepish,” “weak,” and “prone to waver endlessly.”
3. Create a false choice. The memo says the decision is between supporting President Bush’s policies and hoping terrorist threats will “fade away on their own.”
You can read the confidential memo for yourself HERE.
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Well, isn’t this nice? Is it too much to hope that a member of the press corps will print it out and ask him about it when the camersa are rolling? Or maybe the next time he’s on a talk show?
Probably.
June 14th, 2006 at 9:45 amGreat catch! I’ve always wondered what these things look like. I’m ready to go on Press the Meet after reading it. It’ll be fun to see how many of them are used word for word during the debate. I can do a shorter summary for you. Pathetic.
June 14th, 2006 at 9:53 amI always say turnabout is fair play…
Dems should portray repulsivescum Bushites as:
war profiteers
cowards and deserters>…(how many among their ranks are distinguished veterans of ANY conflict, and didn’t Bushiva and L’il Dick shirk their duty?)
TRAITORS…supporting domestic spying w/out warrants
war profiteers
Halliburton shills
mass murderers…Haditha and Hamandiya are the tip of the iceberg…
TRAITORS…shirking their oversight duties by REFUSING to investigate domestic spying, Plamegate, and other Bushite WH breaches of constitutional authority in good faith…
If you ask me Boehner has FLUNG the door wide open for Democrats with balls to CLEARLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY EXPOSE them (Bushites) for the criminal TRAITORS they are…
…so what’s the fuss?
June 14th, 2006 at 9:55 amKarl Rove is back in the saddle I see.
Why is red state America so freaking dumb?
June 14th, 2006 at 9:55 amJust called Mr. Boehner’s Washington office to tell them how disgusted and ashamed I was by his conduct.
He and his staff might be interested in hearing from others also. If you agree with Boehner, so be it, call and say so.
Or, if you think it’s disgusting to exploit 9/11 this way, call and say so.
phone (202) 225-6205
fax(202) 225-0704
June 14th, 2006 at 9:56 amGreat, we want government, we get talking points. What if we ran our lives this way? “Sorry, dear, but if I had bought you a birthday present it would mean the terrorists had won.”
June 14th, 2006 at 9:56 amWhy does everything have to be discussed in the context of 9/11? There was no connection between 9/11 and Iraq before the war, the strongest connection between Iraq and 9/11 now is Bush himself…
And if 9/11 can be brought up in any debate from now on as the “or else the terrorists will kill us all” card, let’s not stop at nation-building. Let’s use it for health care. Education. The environment.
“Senator, maybe during the 80’s you chose not to sponsor a billion dollar study of cow flatulence, but 9/11 has changed everything. To pass on this opportunity leaves bovine gasses at the mercy of those who seek to destroy our way of life.”
June 14th, 2006 at 10:01 amBig Papa, I am with you.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:10 amFight fire with fire.
Give ‘em more of the same.
No more Mr. Nice Guy – fight as dirty as they do.
Lying bastards deserve to be called out for what they are.
Boehner’s “strategery” is disgusting! The Dems had better be rhetorically armed to do serious battle with these manipulating, lying, facist-bastards! If I don’t see some outrage, some “fire,” some passion from the House Democrats during this debate, I will be sorely disappointed! Do Dems ever get angry (besides Murtha, I mean)? Murtha, Kerry, and every other Democrat ought to be railing against Chickens**t, er, ChickenhawKarl Rove for his remarks about two actual war heroes, as he has never served one millisecond in the armed services during Vietnam or at any other time when he was “draft-eligible.” PLEASE, DEMS, GET A SPINE, STRAIGHTEN UP AND LET THEM HAVE IT – RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES!
June 14th, 2006 at 10:11 amHow dare this fool quote JFK!!!
June 14th, 2006 at 10:12 amI will bring Dick Cheney to his knees with the help and cooperation of Karl Rove.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:15 amBoehner Jams ‘06
June 14th, 2006 at 10:17 amWow…that isn’t even creating a false choie I don’t think. It’s like tricking people into following an expensive and painful lie that never ends. Isn’t that basically the “choice” they have set up here? Either follow Bush’s plan without question or “hope terrorism fades away on its own”.
Is there even a distinction for the middle east or Iraq in that braod statement about terrorism? Is BUsh going to invade China and Ireland next in his plan to end all terrorism all over the world?
This is all manipulation in order to forget that Bush HAS NO PLAN and has no idea what it means to win this was. He has no idea what he is doing. So following him is a fool’s errand because his war is never going to end. Bush’s mission has no end and will result in nothing but more chaos and more hatred towards the US and create more terrorists than they started off with.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:18 amit all looks good on paper
it’s the war, stupid
George Bush was in the National Guard, he can stay in Iraq for a year along with the rest of National Guard from all fifty states. Air Force One can be mothballed for a year while he’s there. It would save on jet fuel.
What’s the matter, George? Chicken?
One good thing: The price of gas is twice as much as it once was.
So that means your dollar is worth half as much as it was before George Bush. Who do we thank for that? God?
June 14th, 2006 at 10:21 amI’m using Mozilla FireFox browser, WindowsXP and get a blank page for the memo.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:21 amOf course our cowardly leaders will once again go belly-up instead of offering a cogent response.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:22 amWhen are our leaders going to listen to us instead of their obviously brain dead democratic strategists?
it’s their creed” the new american century~! read it and weep for democracy. constant wars, a more powerful prison system ~ for those who won’t fight in their wars, suppression of individual voices, cohesion for the military industrial complex. it’s becoming their reality. i think the dumbocrats should get up and walk out of congress and the house, until there is a credible investigation of the many laws these whack-jobs in the white house have created! stop the insanity!
June 14th, 2006 at 10:25 amWhy is red state America so freaking dumb?
Red staters aren’t dumb – just misinformed. And frankly, imho, Dems are equally to blame for that. If you don’t respond quickly and forcefully to lies, then the lies become harder to refute later.
The Dems in office and any who appear on talk shows should discuss this memo. And they should do that now. That way Thursday when any Repubs try to use this strategy the Dems can when replying say “I see Representative X got Rep. Boehner’s talking points.” I wonder how many preplanned speaches it could ruin.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:25 am#19
All House Republicans or a select few?
June 14th, 2006 at 10:25 amI’d like to raise one issue that seems not to have had a lot of attention in the last little while and that this memo brings to mind
How is it that we got to a point that the unquestioned way to deal with Mr. al-Zarqawi is by killing him, which is then uncritically celebrated afterward. I don’t condone his acts, but really I shouldn’t even have to say that. What one does with a criminal, if one is civilized, is arrest him and try him and, if his guilt is proven, impose a lawful sentence. Even in the case of Eichmann, the Israelis didn’t just shoot the bastard when they found him, they put him on trial.
The last few neocon administrations (I would begin with Reagan in assigning blame on this) have so pushed the political debate to the right that Democrats and even the left have — at least as far as I’ve seen — failed to challenge the administration on this point. The only person who’s called them on it to my knowledge is Fidel Castro. (And for those of you who don’t like Mr. Castro, consider the fact that our failure to confront Bush & Co. with their prediliction for assassination rather than the rule of law has resulted in a situation where we have abandoned the moral high ground to Cuba.)
Hell, at least in the old days when the U.S. government assassinated someone they felt they had to pretend they didn’t do it. Now even the Democrats would be hooted down if they argued that zl-Zarqawi should have been captured and tried rather than killed. We really have to reclaim the terms of debate.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:26 amThis is a dangerous document.
First, 9/11 is nothing new, but in terms of Iran, I guess it is.
Second, attacks are nothing new. We are used to them and their labeling and I think it’s about time we just ignored them. We have no control over that because they have the media to tell everyone what they are supposed to think.
Finally, the really dangerous part. Item 3 you mention has as much to do with elections as anything. You are only fooling yourself if you think there won’t be a war in Iran. They will claim public support even if it’s not there and then will say, by extension, that the public supports bush.
That would certainly be a nice turn around for the republicans just before mid-terms. It would also be a lie.
Nowhere in the document do they admit that they know they are lying.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:28 amNot that I really put it past the necons but this looks like it could very easily have been made in word by anyone. Is there a bit more evidence that this is authentic?
June 14th, 2006 at 10:29 amOh, I see Zookeeper was already onto the ‘06 angle.
It’s all about the elections, even more than Iran.
I think it’s safe to say that from this point onward, the elections will be in the fore of every republican action.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:30 amWow, I misread this and thought we were talking about Iran.
How can they even HOPE to link 9/11 to Iraq? AGAIN?
Yowsah.
I guess it plays to their base. Base is the correct description. It takes really base thought to get to the point where you make up lies about links that didn’t exist to justify war crimes.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:32 amI am so increasingly often ashamed by our elected leadership.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:32 amI’m using Mozilla FireFox browser, WindowsXP and get a blank page for the memo.
Comment by Patriot
Me too, I’ll have to read it at work.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:33 amThis is so worth that $3000 raise they just took (I say took intentionally becuase they sure haven’t earned it)…
June 14th, 2006 at 10:36 amMore useless drivel from the right. You’d think it was enough they had a convention about 9/11 (i think it was called the republican national convention or something like that ;)) now they continue to harp on the 9/11 attacks and some how “blur” the lines between 9/11 – Iraq, even though there are no lines to begin with. The republican strategy is to throw enough mud at the wall that their south red state base holds strong with them.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:36 amOh, I see Zookeeper was already onto the ‘06 angle.
Comment by Ken Daves
You give me more credit than I deserve, Ken. I was making a snarky reference to the 40 Year Old Virgin.
Off topic: TP, GWB is making me sick with his news conference this morning. Same shit, different day. Please cover this, if you’re not alreayd planning to do so. He’s being so aggressive…
June 14th, 2006 at 10:37 amMe too, I’ll have to read it at work.
Comment by Zookeeper — June 14, 2006 @ 10:33 am
Do it after lunch – it’s nauseating…
June 14th, 2006 at 10:37 amI’m using Mozilla FireFox browser, WindowsXP and get a blank page for the memo.
It worked for me and I have the same setup as you. Is your adobe reader up to date?
June 14th, 2006 at 10:37 amI think I heard this morning that our president will take another photo op with the Japanese Prime Minister at Graceland mansion. An attempt to secure the “Elvis-is-will-never-die” votes?
June 14th, 2006 at 10:41 amWhen Donald Rumsfeld was shaking Saddam’s hand, everybody was happy. George shows up in Baghdad to shake the hand of the new Saddam, and everybody is happy all over again.
George should take a walk up to R, S, and T streets in Warshington and shake the hands of his neighbors. He doesn’t need to fly twelve thousand miles to look somebody in the eye. Good Lord
You got to look at the war room situation.
George? George? GEORGE! Pay attention Wake up George? Come on, George
It’s hopeless.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:41 amI heard Fox commentators saying that when Maliki shook hands with our fuhrer, he then put his right hand to his heart as a show of love and respect.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:44 amI saw it as Maliki wiping his hand on his clothing after touching Bush.
Sorry #36 should have been on Think Fast.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:45 amNice catch, TP. We might want to deluge NYT and WaPo search engines with searches for “Boehner memo” and the date.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:46 amAs far as strategy documents go, this memo is pretty vanilla – definately nothing new revealed.
I would love to see the Dem talking points issued prior to the debate. Considered how many opposing stances taken by House Dems, it’s bound to be a study in self-contradiction and “endless wavering”.
I’m curious what specific points made in the memo people here consider false. What 9/11 didnt change the world? Do Congressional Dems have a unified strategy on Iraq? Under Dem leadership, would the spread of Democracy be an easier, less contested process?
Good luck.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:49 amI’m guessing this barely registers a blip on the MSM.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:52 amThey have a lot of nerve quoting JFK in that email. But if they can quote Jesus and drop bombs on children, they can do any disgusting horrifying thing in this world and make a SACRAMENT of it.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:53 amThe GOP has hit rock bottom and they don’t care. Now it’s all rape and pillage before they get thrown out on their ears.
Suggestion: Why don’t the Democrats decide not to participate in this GOP side show debate. The cards are stacked and the outcome pre-ordained. So, don’t play the game. Don’t attend the debate. Or walk out. Don’t offer a speech. Don’t participate at all. Give it the attention it deserves. None.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:53 amSweet. No one is taking the threadjackers bait.
Lovin’ life.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:00 ambig papa – #3 – All of your points are demonstrable, as opposed to the Republican accusations. Great post. He says Dems are “wavering”? How about “changing their approach in light of the ongoing disaster and irrefutably failed policy?”
#40 suggests the opposite approach. That’s what they do now, just stand by and watch? I agree that the Republican points don’t merit discussion, but I think that it would do a world of good to accuse them of war profiteering and betrayal (Wilson case). The only people who will be offended are those whose minds will never be changed, even if we lose 120,000 troops.
At some point, the Democrats have to stand up and do their jobs. Kerry seems to be taking a step in that direction with today’s call for troop withdrawal.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:03 amI called Boehner’s office and they said they don’t know which memo I was talking about. These staff members are either so dumb or so unhuman that they just simply have no response to such exploitation.
Where are Dems. political operatives?
June 14th, 2006 at 11:06 amI totally agree that at some point the Democrats must stand up and do their jobs. Unfortunately, they do not seem up to the task. At this fact, I am furious at their lack of backbone in defending us.
I’m not advocating standing by and watching. I don’t even want them in the House chambers. I’m advcating a silent protest of sorts. Silence, when the other side is itching for a fight they believe they can ‘win’ because this week’s press favors them, is a statement. It’s all in the timing and I’m afraid the timing is not right at the moment. Just sit back and listen to the sound bites you know will be coming. Participation on this issue will just play into Rove’s hands.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:11 amI’m willing to bet that future history textbooks in the public education system will refflect the lie that the Iraq War as a result of the 9/11 attacks…
June 14th, 2006 at 11:13 am“Attack opponents ad hominem” has been a standard weapon in the political debate arsenal for an awfully long while.
Lyndon Johnson and the Dems used it against Barry Goldwater (R) during the 1964 Prez election with great success. Johnson also used it against Vietnam War protests.
This government, both Demos and Republicans, along with the media, view the US citizenry as a spoiled, frightened by shadows, stupid, manipulable population.
Mostly they are correct. Mail and calls to members of the US Congress will fall flat, as they’ve done for generations.
Letters didn’t get us out of Vietnam, and they won’t get us out of this one. If US citizens want to influence US foreign policy they’re going to have to grow some testicles and brain cells.
They’re going to have to use stern, sensible methods to exercise their rights:
Notes for future war protest gatherings:
A lot was learned through hard experience by war protests 35-40 years ago, but it’s mostly been lost with time. Those who were there doing the learning will probably be out of the picture this time around, or only in the background.
But the other side’s had that same 40 years to study how it all worked, prepare, and train.
You won’t be able to afford the mistakes we made. There’d been no 9/11. There was no Homeland Security to label dissenters “potential terroristsâ€, and no option of hauling them off to detention camps.
Here are some thoughts derived from hard lessons learned a long time ago in another war:
Organization:
Keep them small, close-knit, organized around churches, civic groups and other existing groups whenever possible. Make certain every member knows every other member by sight. Make certain every group has a recognized leader and a cadre of middle-level leaders accepted by the group.
When a hundred, or a thousand such groups gather you’ll find it’s a lot easier to maintain order and discipline if a majority of the people present are familiar with one another within their groups.
Goals:
Keep your eye on the ball.
You aren’t there to protest abortion, minority rights, anything but the war. Diluting the purpose of the gathering will cause friction within the groups and reduce the number of participants.
Bringing in other causes will also detract from the overall goal.
Conduct:
Keep it peaceful.
Every group leader needs to recognize a responsibility for the conduct of everyone in the group.
Any misconduct will bring the iron heel down onto the necks of the entire gathering. The media can be expected to dramatize every minute act of destruction or violence and use it as a weapon to discourage future activities.
Dress Code:
The other side will have surveillance equipment never dreamed of 40 years ago.
For that reason, it’s important for everyone to look as nearly alike as possible to make it as difficult as possible for anyone giving instructions by radio to describe individuals. When they’re studying the photos and videos later, make it difficult for them.
One good option would be everyone wearing white tee-shirts without logos, blue jeans, athletic shoes, and unmarked ball-caps of a designated color. Every group should also carry handkerchiefs, scarves, or armbands of a designated color to be donned a few moments before the rally or march to help make it easier for group leaders to remain aware of their member locations.
Surveillance and agents provocateurs:
The other side will have cameras everywhere and every group they can identify will be infiltrated by provocateurs. Be aware of this and watch what you say and how you conduct yourselves.
A joking remark might well be enough to get you into a courtroom, even such remarks made only within small groups of acquaintances.
During rallies and marches, agents provocateurs will attempt to incite those around them to illegal acts.
Whenever anyone becomes rowdy, noisy, the people around him/her need to move away from them. Keep as much distance between yourself and those attempting to change the nature of the gathering, as possible.
Make them an island alone on the pavement.
Equipment:
Take advantage of technology.
If possible, every member of every group should have a cell-phone with the numbers of every member recorded in a call down list. This will allow fast, easy communications within the groups and allow anyone who becomes separated to rejoin.
It will also allow minute-by-minute updates if things go sour and police begin beating heads in somewhere a mile ahead of you, allowing you to disperse in a timely, orderly manner.
As many video cameras, digital cameras and disposable cameras as possible should be present in every group.
Use them to take pictures of agents provocateurs, police misconduct, trouble-makers and every incident that might later erupt as a news item.
Study the route of the march, or the location of the rally ahead of time.
Plan ahead for avenues of dispersal if things should go sour.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:13 amKnow where you are at all times and where the nearest bolt-hole is in relation to you.
1. If you liberals want to ignore 911, go rigtht ahead.
2. Reid and Kerry are sheep and you liberals know it.
3. Bush vs. Terrorism isn’t a false choice because the Democrats haven’t offered any solutions to the threat other than “This is a Republican mess to clean up”.
My words anger you because they are true.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:16 amAre the Democrats spineless or just loyal opposition?
As a Citizen, I want my representatives to be vigorous and passionate advocates of the people, failing that, they should resign.
The tyranny that has overtaken the three branches of government require a level of outrage that i’ve not seen as yet from the opposition party.
I am angry. I don’t see myself represented in congress. I see the Democrats as weak and ineffectual. Whether this is by design or a condition of the party, I cannot say.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:21 amHey Karl: Your words don’t anger us because they’re true any more than a lie told often enough becomes the truth. I believe the record shows that Bush ignored the warnings of 9/11 while on vacation (what was the name of that historical memo?). Reid and Kerry may be sheep, but I prefer sheep to pigs like Frist, Hassert et al. And Bush v. Terrorism is the most false of all choices. Iraq is a Republican mess to clean up (or just leave it for the next guy). Terrorism is an act by a group with little leverage to protest a condition they find egregious. The Democrats have offered many choices to fighting terrorism, they just don’t involve invading other countries, secret rendition, an imperial executive (or is it vice-executive here) who sits as law giver, law enforcer, judge and jury. Defecation on the Constitution is not how to win the hearts and minds of anyone.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:22 amI fixed it for you:
My words amuse you because they are egocentric and assinine.
Comment by Karl Rove — June 14, 2006 @ 11:16 am
June 14th, 2006 at 11:26 amYour words make me laugh. Wait until they all find out about your total utter complete incompetence regarding how you failed the nation to the point of criminal negligence Karl.
It is with great interest I listen as republicans tell me how the evidence isn’t adding up, these years later.
They blame your Dubya, they know a cover up when they see it. Conservative doesn’t always mean stupid.
How many kinds of treason can you commit? Or should we say “How many times can you roll over?”
June 14th, 2006 at 11:28 amYour words make me laugh. Wait until they all find out about your total utter complete incompetence regarding how you failed the nation to the point of criminal negligence Karl.
It is with great interest I listen as republicans tell me how the evidence isn’t adding up, these years later.
They blame your Dubya, they know a cover up when they see it. Conservative doesn’t always mean stupid.
How many kinds of treason can you commit? Or should we say “How many times can you roll over?”
PS- That better not be a government computer you are using
June 14th, 2006 at 11:29 amI see they are still using the “oceans no longer protect us” line. Of course, anyone who thought oceans protected us from terrorists either have poor memories or are dumber than a box of rocks. Does anyone remember Timothy McVeigh? Eric Rudolph? Did oceans protect us from them?
June 14th, 2006 at 11:30 amDem’s Talking Points in Response
The republican party has been playing a shell game with the american people for six years.
You voted for a tax cut. You got tax cuts for the wealthiest that your children and grandchildren will be left with the bill. How many yachts have you bought with your big tax cuts that you were promised?
You voted to fight terrorism. You got a war in Iraq that has increased terrorism, cost the U.S. billions that you will have to pay for, and the deaths of 2500 precious american’s sons and daughters. Do you feel safer today than you did last year?
You voted for bringing back integrity and accountability to our government. You got corruption from the white house all the way down. And then they have the nerve to try to scare you into voting for them by using the tragic deaths of those on 9/11 to create their own terror campaign against those who wish to clean up their mess — the democrats. They have no shame and no guilt as long as they stay in office and stay on the lobyists payroll.
You voted for someone to represent your interests in Washington. You got the oil lobby writing the energy bill, you got corporate polluters writing environmental laws, you got the health insurance lobby writing the medicare reform bill, and you got corrupt lobyists writing the loby reform laws. Have any of these laws made life better or easier for you or your family?
The “shell game” republicans, haven’t you had enough of them yet?
June 14th, 2006 at 11:31 amComment by ddh — June 14, 2006 @ 11:27 am
Matches the information in the thread heading above.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:32 amI have given up on the federal govt. It is a self-serving bunch that have lost touch with real people and real issues. I am now looking at a local level to make a difference. If it wasn’t for ordinary, extremely motivated people in nation, we would curl up and die. I am an optimist, but very jaded with the movement of this country on a national level. If we have to live through another 4 to 8 years of this kind of leadership and incompetence we are in BIG TROUBLE. Don’t forget Katrina….a stain on this country. That’s when I wrote this bunch off. SELF-SERVING GOVT. plain and simple.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:34 amSuggestion: Why don’t the Democrats decide not to participate in this GOP side show debate. The cards are stacked and the outcome pre-ordained. So, don’t play the game. Don’t attend the debate. Or walk out. Don’t offer a speech. Don’t participate at all. Give it the attention it deserves. None.
Comment by po — June 14, 2006 @ 10:53 am
I think if they did that, they should then at least go to another room (rent a conference hall or whatever) and have a real debate about what should be done. Invite knowledgable people and really talk through the alternatives. You know, do what the Repubs aren’t willing to do because they prefer to stick to their talking points and think of this as just an election ploy.
Now for my part. I think the sham meeting the Repubs are planning should be treated with all the respect it deserves – a drinking game. Gotta work on the rules.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:35 am[Moderated by admin.]
June 14th, 2006 at 11:36 amAfter reading the full text of the memo, I think TP’s synopsis is accurate. Please note, how Saddam Hussien, was explicitly linked to terrorism, and the 9/11 attacks
June 14th, 2006 at 11:38 amHGere is what the Dems should do; Attack the Republican strategy.
“Mr Boehner, you have in this document called for Republicans to exploit 9/11, use Ad-Hominem attacks, and create a false choice as well as using the other usual logical fallacies. Yes, it is a powerful tactic as your repeated success at leading this country deeper into debt with nations hostile to us, and international disrepute amongst those that once weren’t has demonstrated this, and indeed your success at using this tactic to put American soldiers in harms way for no apparent gain is incredible, but surely you must be getting bored of using the same tactic over, and over, and over again?”
June 14th, 2006 at 11:42 am#52 – Interesting. The version you post is exactly what the post describes:
1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.†Yup! That’s what the Republicans have done in your version!
2. Attack opponents ad hominem. The memo describes those who opposes President Bush’s policies in Iraq as “sheepish,†“weak,†and “prone to waver endlessly.†Again, hat’s what the Republicans have done in your version!
3. Create a false choice. The memo says the decision is between supporting President Bush’s policies and hoping terrorist threats will “fade away on their own.†Once again, hat’s what the Republicans have done in your version!
It must really be painful to get the red-a$$ from liberal/progressive posters when you attempt to spread calumny. You must be a masochist. Next time, READ the memo and THEN argue your issues. It really helps to not have a foot in your mouth when you talk.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:42 am#55. Comment by Dr. Van Nostrand — June 14, 2006 @ 11:30 am
It’s really funny to hear them use that line. Roosevelt used it 65 years ago, on September 11, 1941 (what a coincidence).
http://www.usmm.org/fdr/rattlesnake.html
Trolls who want to equate Roosevelt’s call to action with Bush’s pre-emption policy, take note: Several American ships – warships – had been attacked by German warships at the time of Roosevelt’s statement. There is still no evidence of Iraq’s involvement in attacks against us.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:46 amIs your adobe reader up to date?
Comment by Step Beyond
That was the problem, thanks.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:47 amI would love to see one of our “fearless” dems step up to the microphone and read this memo to the House. Then say, “is this what you consider a debate”. These are talking points! I agree with a previous poster. If the dems don’t show some fire over this, they are useless and they will lose in 06.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:48 am“The attacks we witnessed that day serve as a reminder of the dangers we face as a nation in a post-9/11 world”
How did we live in a post-9/11 world on 9/11?
June 14th, 2006 at 11:49 am#40:
What I think they should do is to hold their own debate and let the Repugs have their own love-fest. The problem is that the press would undoubtedly ignore any Democratic debate and they would most likely be given the coat closet in the basement as their meeting room. That’s the way the Repugs deal with desent by the Democrats.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:51 amThey are doing it again! But, opportunity is here for the Dems to not do what they did before the Iraq War. I do not want to hear, “I was for it and then I was against it”. Don’t let the Republicans portray this anymore as than what it is-Repucblicans have no plan. The Dems just need a plan.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:54 am[Moderated by admin.]
June 14th, 2006 at 11:58 amHi to the anti bushites,
What does Iraq have to do with 9/11?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:06 pmNothing!
Afgahnistan was & is the country that is harboring the terrorists,
& letting them train in their country.
Then why are we in Iraq?
Only because George Sr. did not go after Hussein after the Kuwaiti war,
& little George wanted to get him, but the only way he could, would be to
claim that Hussein was harboring the terrorists, which is completely false.
I don’t agree with what Hussein was doing, but I definitely don’t agree with
little George even more.
As far as I’m concerned, Little George is the biggest terrorist in the world today!
Rove: BushvsTerorism is a myth of galactic proportions. The dolt was asleep prior to and during the attack in New York after receiving in advance warnings of the fact. Impeachment should have followed immediately. He was against the formation of the 9/11 Commission and was reluctant to appear before its deliberations. If it was not for the work or the “Jersey Girls” in demanding a commission and monitoring its work it would still be a figment of one’s imagination. Bush ignored the recommedations of the Commission to close the ports and borders. In fact he offered deals to countries that harbored and supported terrorists and championed amnesty for illegal immigrants crossing our borders without regard for the possibility of terrorist coming in. Terrorism has increased around the world and the Taliban is back to full strength. Bush can’t tell the difference between an insurgency and terrorism and speaks in tongues when he talks of “terrorism” to cloud our minds. Osama bin Laden was the real culprit on 9/11 and should have been destroyed. Check the misery index. Are we be led by a rational man with common sense or the biggest buffoon ever visited upon the American people?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:07 pmStop the propaganda already. 9/11 does NOT equal the War in Iraq. The House Majority leader is still in 9/11 = War in Iraq mode. He mentions it 7 times in a 2 page memo. Stop the propaganda.
Most Americans want to win in Iraq. Doesn’t matter what party you’re aligned with. Mistake after mistake in Iraq is costing American lives and dollars. Not just Republican or Democrat. Everybody’s losing here.
The issues are and have always been that the Bush administration made a huge err in judgement and continues to make huge mistakes in the Iraq War.
~ Started without a clear and immediate threat (viable WMDs, forget viable, how about any WMDs?).
~ Started without UN Security Council support.
~ Started without an exit strategy.
~ Started without a full budget assessment.
~ Not finding nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in Iraq following the invasion. President George W. Bush has since admitted that “much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong”. Colin Powell later expressed regret about his presentation at the UN Security Council.
~ Inability to quell insurgent activity.
~ Inability to establish a stable government.
~ Drawing the ire of neighboring countries instead of creating useful alliances for Iraq.
~ US is paying for almost all of war-related costs in Iraq.
~ Estimated cost of war, 2.6 TRILLION dollars. http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/iraq-war-could-cost-26-trillion/2006/01/10/1136851198921.html
He indicates that it was solely Republicans that somehow killed Zarqawi and are responsible for the appointment of Iraqi defense, security and interior ministers. Wow…again, f’in mind blowing. Not only is it a silly, blanket statement but the facts are 1 major terrorist was killed and 3 guys got jobs in Iraq. Good news but the war is far, far away from being over. I don’t care how many pre-election photo ops you throw out there. I’m still waiting for a video of Bush actually waving his cowboy hat while riding the bomb that hit Zarqawi’s safehouse (see Dr. Strangelove).
When is the Republican theatre going to end?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:11 pmDon’t taxpayers get some credit for any progress made in the war, after all, we are paying the bill.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:17 pm[...] In an exclusive over at the fantastic Think Progress the writers have received a leaked copy of a confidential memo sent out by House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) which lays out the Republican’s strategy for the debate on Iraq that is scheduled to take place tomorrow in the House. [...]
June 14th, 2006 at 12:18 pmHow did TP get a hold of this memo considering it was confidential? Is it authentic?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:24 pmAlong with Post #2, say something like, “and all of this has transpired through the Republican House because of what Ken Mehlman called ‘greed and cynicism’.”
June 14th, 2006 at 12:25 pmI meant post 3#.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:26 pm#75 Tracy,
I would have thought you would have learned your lesson on that issue after the memo about Terry Schiavo was proven to have been writtin by the republicans as was originally claimed.
On a more original note, please try to post something on topic, argue that this memo is not a shrill call to keep the false meme going.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:27 pmMany of you seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the democrats and republicans are on different sides. They are both corporate shills. This is easy to verify: when democrats replace republicans in any given office, nothing substantial ever changes. In fact they both collaborate quite intensely to silence and thwart any and all third party candidates. They are on the same side: the one where the money is.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:28 pm#75 Tracy,
You gave the memo to TP, while sleepwalking, and you don’t remember it.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:28 pmI agree James,
we need to dump both parties in favor of those who will serve the people not the corporate masters.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:30 pm” or do we instead abandon our efforts against these threats in the hopes that they will just fade away on their own?”
Wait.. Is he talking about Iraq or New Orleans? (scratches head)
June 14th, 2006 at 12:33 pmso uh errrrrhhhhhh is Mz coulter readin this?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:34 pmDid Boner pass out free cigarettes with each copy of that memo?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:34 pmAny democrats capable of copying and sending this memo to their colleages?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:41 pmExploit 9-11? The Republicans? Who would have thought, huh? I think they’re praying for a new attack (hence the security budget cuts in NY and DC) so they have some fresh material.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:41 pmHas anyone asking how and where they got this memo? Is this authentic? Im not apologists for the right but at the same time if this memo turns out to be a fake it just makes the whole point mute.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:45 pmGee, I’ve never seen an administration so happy about the deaths of 3000 of their citizens. They’ve played politics with 911 from day one, yet send out one of their shrillest shills to smear the 911 widows for playing politics with 911. Could the hypocricy be more glaringly repugnant?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:46 pmI don’t think you morons are smart enough to know how powerful the Democrats really are, and how powerless you are to do anything about it.
June 14th, 2006 at 12:48 pmI don’t think you morons are smart enough to know how powerful the Democrats really are, and how powerless you are to do anything about it.
Comment by Ravel Kor
Has anyone else pointed out that your nickname is an anagram for Karl Rove?
June 14th, 2006 at 12:59 pmWow you people are really twisted. How do you get all that from the Memo I just read? Or is it that you’re so unfamiliar with having a plan of your own that you view putting things in historical context as “exploiting 9/11″?
June 14th, 2006 at 1:13 pmNot that I think Republicans are worth a damn, because they’re not.
If you left-wing wack-jobs wanted to go after the Bush administration, why aren’t you pulling out your hair and gnashing your teeth over McCain-Feingold and its assault on your First Amendment rights?
Fact is you liberals only fall back on the Constitution when it’s convenient. Case in point: Dennis Hastert (R-IL, yeah he’s one of you.) a while back claimed the Constitution was archaic. Yet just last week he screams bloody murder about Constitutional violations by the FBI (violations that don’t exist, no less). So which is it? Does the Constitution matter or not? You can’t have it both ways.
You folks are so blinded by ideology that you can’t see straight. If Bush had a “D†after his name you would be drooling over the man. Why? He makes Slick Willy look like a Ronald Reagan. Let’s face it, on domestic policy, Bush is a liberal. Bush is a traitor for violating his oath of office (“support and defend the Constitution of the United States agains all enemies foreign and domestic†(see McCain-Feingold)). But if you kick him out of office, you have to kick out at 534 Congressmen for the same thing. We’d be left with Ron Paul which, come to think of it, wouldn’t be such a bad thing.
I wonder how many of you just read the synopsis of the memo as opposed to reading the actual document. Judging by the responses, not many.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:15 pmSince the synopsis is merely a partisan interpretation of the memo, it is easy to judge it quickly and dismiss it.
Try reading it. It takes a little effort to make the real memo live up to the hype of the synopsis.
The 9-11 references were not references to the specific event, but time-markers. The phrase “in a post-9-11 world”, is totally justified. Those who ignore that fact are merely looking at the event and it’s place in time, not the new reality it left behind. To call it “exploiting 9-11″ is dangerous and irresponsible.
I think people (and especially Think Progress and other left-leaning blogs) need to keep an eye on the media to see if they will follow these speaking points in their reporting.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:24 pmMabo,
I did read the whole memo. I think that the synopsis Think Progress provided is accurate. I realize this makes the republican party looks like a bunch of greedy sociapathic opportunists, but sometimes the truth hurts.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:38 pmI’ve been thinking . . . why does the GOP never speak of a post February 26, 1993 world? You know, the date on which those who hate freedom first attacked the WTC. Oh yeah, because they weren’t paying attention until after September 11, 2001. Too distracted with trying to take down Clinton, and ignoring his advice, to focus on the real threat to America. Yes, the GOP: they create the enemy and leave others to pick up the pieces.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:39 pmwe could no longer allow despots and dictators like the Taliban and Saddam Hussein to ignore international sanctions and resolutions passed by the United Nations Security Council.
What about the USA and Israel? They have a bad habit of ignoring these as well.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:48 pmNope, nothing new here…
June 14th, 2006 at 1:50 pmIf you look at the document properties, it appears that a “kmadden” created this document on a Mac at 10:44 pm 6/13/06.
A simple Google search reveals that “kmadden” might be Kevin Madden, Boehner’s press secretary, who also used to work for Tom DeLay.
June 14th, 2006 at 1:59 pmI just sent a link to the PDF to WTOP, a news radio station in DC. Now let’s see whose side they’re on.
June 14th, 2006 at 2:03 pm#88
Even if it is fake, you still have to give people something here to comment on or this blog is useless.
June 14th, 2006 at 2:05 pmNeo-McCarthyism reigns supreme in the GOP. Thanks for exposing these dishonest demagogues in all their “glory”!
June 14th, 2006 at 2:21 pm[...] It is good to occasionally get an insider’s peek at the inner cogs of government clanking away. One such peek is being offered by ThinkProgress, an impressive site that has obtained a “Confidential Messaging Memo†from Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), to his caucus on how to deal with Iraq. Here is the bottom line, our new Iraq strategy: 1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.†[...]
June 14th, 2006 at 2:43 pmEyes wide shut. You people and your memos. Who cares???? You are losing your country and these 2 parties have you focused and outraged about details that don’t matter. You wanted Marxism? Socialism? You got it! You are arguing about the minute differences between the two parties while they both conspire to rob you of your freedom. What is the difference between the Dems and the Republicans? Republicans will at least buy you a drink before they ask you to grab your ankles. But in the end (pun intended) you’re still grabbing your ankles…
June 14th, 2006 at 2:51 pmI like how the memo quotes John F. Kennedy, even as they are currently dragging two of his family through the mud!
June 14th, 2006 at 2:54 pmOne more item to add to big papa’s list:
SWORN ENEMIES OF THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS!
June 14th, 2006 at 2:56 pmIf the media were even remotely liberal, the GOP never would’ve survived their first month back in power in 2001. The ONLY reason they are still in power is because they control EVERYTHING. The mainstream media is small potatoes now. They control the judges, courts, all three branches of government, the U.N., etc etc etc. You name it, the GOP controls it. Why do you think Bush thinks he can simply do whatever he wants without worrying about getting impeached?
People, you need to WAKE THE HELL UP! We live in a BONA-FIDE DICTATORSHIP!!!!!
June 14th, 2006 at 3:02 pmi swear old shitass karl rove up to his tricks again.
June 14th, 2006 at 3:06 pmjust another bunch of crap to go down the hole.
Members are only going to have a minute or (maybe) two on the floor to speak. It’s impossible to have a true debate with only a minute of time per person, and it’s a farce when they are not allowing any amendments to the resolution.
June 14th, 2006 at 3:07 pmCalled the guy’s office and asked if the memo was legit. After dancing around a bit, I was told that the memo was no longer on the Congressman’s website as it was “confidential.” I kept asking the girl who answered the phone if this was the memo that was sent by his office. She kept telling me it was confidential. Changed tactics and asked why he was exploiting 9/11 and she told me he was not. Quoted some passages from the memo–silence and then a cheery, “good-bye” from the person on the other end.
June 14th, 2006 at 3:12 pmYou good Americans might want to be careful since this is “confidential.” Don’t want you to be called in front of the Special Prosecutor
Boehner sent to the National Review (see the Corner) some Pelosi quotes – likely taken out of context – to make it look like she is a flip-flopper. Some of these cherry picked quotes are from a Nov. 17, 2002 interview on Meet the Press. Alas, MTP has transcripts only back through 2003. Google does show some rightwing bloggers attacking Pelosi for not more forcefully backing Bush on his quest for war. If you have the time – maybe you can go after the National Review and Boehner’s obvious smear of Congresswoman Pelosi.
June 14th, 2006 at 3:13 pm” The phrase “in a post-9-11 worldâ€, is totally justified.”
-Comment by Mabo — June 14, 2006-
I’m sorry I disagree. Don’t get me wrong. I was in New York City on that day, and it was bad, but I’m not ready to reset the calendar to zero.
We were attacked in a big way by terrorists. True. Unfortunately, nobody has ever been safe from terrorists, and we never will be, because it is civilians vs. civilians. The only real defense at home is to become a police state because freedom is what the terrorists use to move around. The LAST thing you want abroad is to make a big production of your response, because that breeds more angry civilians.
The term “post 9/11 world” deliberately creates the illusion that things are now different, but they aren’t. This is the same as it’s always been. A catastrophic event scares the citizens into letting the government become their daddy and do things they wouldn’t normally want to do. The leaders then see that “it’s good to be daddy” and they position themselves as the only ones interested keeping the public safe.
The only lesson from history is that we never learn the lessons of history. The only people who think the calendar should be reset by 9/11 are the ones who were not in touch with the “pre 9/11″ world in the first place. Now they would march us all into a nice strong “9/11 proof” cell because “the world has changed”.
June 14th, 2006 at 3:28 pmEven creation of a complete police state would not stop terrorist attacks. Isreal has some pretty heavy security, but they are not able to stop100% of the suicide bombers.
June 14th, 2006 at 3:40 pmwe’re also in a “post-9/10 world” and a “post-9/12 world.” why not use those terms?
June 14th, 2006 at 3:40 pmJust out of curiosity, did any you liberals make an attempt to read the memo itself, or did you just take the “talking points” provided for face value?
Please.
I challenge anyone who blogs on here to an open debate on any issue. Bring it!
http://www.jacewalden.com
June 14th, 2006 at 3:50 pmJace,
had you read the posts associated with this thread you would have answered your own question. I realize that the posts exceed over 100, so you might have to take some time 10 or 15 minutes to get caught up.
As for a debate how about this issue
President Bush; bad president or worst president ever? Who do you think outranks bush in incompetance?
June 14th, 2006 at 4:02 pmThere is a free website which makes it easy to communication with Congress. Register you discontent with an e-mail to your representative, senators and all medias through, http://www.congress.org
June 14th, 2006 at 4:03 pmThere is a free website which makes it easy to communication with Congress. Register your discontent with an e-mail to your representative, senators and all medias through, http://www.congress.org
June 14th, 2006 at 4:04 pmJace – yes, I did read the memo. It was demogogery, dishonest, and basically disgusting. Par for the course for the Neo-McCartyites. Speaking of which – Boehner is standing behind KLo’s skirt to smear Nancy Pelosi. Go check out the details over at Angrybear.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:05 pmEvidently the Repubs think their total failure in Iraq is a good opportunity to attack the Democrats.
They just don’t understand the reason they are in a deep hole of defeat is because of Iraq! They lied us into war and then lost the war, and the vast majority of the American public knows it.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:08 pmboehners office is getting its rear end kicked over this right now. His rude female staffer tries real hard to cut off calls and refuses to listen to public comment she doesn’t like. Love what he’s done, as in Boehner screwed up just like Frist
June 14th, 2006 at 4:20 pmFox News, yesterday, while bragging about how dangerous it was for President Bush to have made his “surprise” visit to the Iraqi leader (was he really there? were there any photos of him actually against an outdoor background?) talked about “making the trains run on time.” Someone else pointed out this was a phrase often used by the Nazis while bragging about how great they were for the country. Chilling.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:23 pmLook, I’ve read it, I’m not going to retype the whole thing, but here are my impressions. Global War on Terror, should herby be known as GW Terror.
Now its all very well, though I would argue that al-Zarqawi was more a result of infighting in Al-Qaeada then the result of anything Bush has done and the effects of his death still have to be seen, right up until he gets to the bit where he talks about “The Importance of Our Actions” and starts blatantly waving the corpses of 9/11 about like its going out of fashion. That was just objectionable jingoism.
A Portrait of contrasts, not only fulfills everthing Judd is saying about ad-hominem attacks, but also goes on further to prove an excellent example of a Straw Man. Here he is defining the Democrat’s position, not allowing the Democrats to actually define their own position, and then tearing it down. This is also where he calls the democrats “Prone to waver” and their approach “Weak” before the debate starts. In short, he doesn’t even know what the Democrats propose, and he is calling there proposal weak, now that’s one great straw man you got there Boehner. Go Team Republican!
Resolve Will Triumph over Retreat, is furthermore, precisely the false choice Judd was talking about. The choices are much broader then kill everything that moves, or surrender. Maybe it is time to actually think before acting and figure out where things are going wrong rather then just acting like everything will sort itself out in the end.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:25 pmI had the same thought. Did Bush really go to Baghdad? The Fox News people practically had tears in their eyes over the surprised look on the Iraqi leader’s face. They stumbled when claiming a wing in the frame was Air Force One – was it really or do they just make shit up?
Most of all, there was never a shot of Bush against a Baghdad background. He could have been shaking the Iraqi’s hand against a marble wall in the White House. No shot of him on that helicopter, nada, nothing.
I say if he went, Big Deal. But I don’t even think he did.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:26 pmOnce again here we are with the whining show. Will all the hate written on this blog change anything? NOOOO! Call everybody names that disagree with you. Sounds like my 4 year old daughter. Grow up. I though liberals were suposed to be tolerant. NOT! You know what makes me throw up since there seems to be alot of that going on on this blog, is suicide bombings. You all seem to think it is okay to let the terrorist off for the human rights crimes they commit. I have not heard one word about holding them accountable. Oh and by the way the head asshole in Iraq is no more. You would think if you really cared about the Iraqis like you pretend you would at least be happy about that.. You didn’t give two shits about Iraqis that were mass murdered before the war, now all of a sudden because it suits your political views you care. Give me a break. You really think that if the USA was not in Iraq the terrorist would not be bombing, you must be watching too much TV. Try the real world for a change. Whine whinje whine that all the dems have anymore. I don’t like Bush anymore than any of you. As lame as Bush is the dems can’t even get a coherent platform. The dems are so sorry they couldn;t even beat Bush in the middle of this mess. Until the Dems quit whining and actually come up with something other that hope for the best, it is going to be more of the same. If you dems aren’t smart enough to figure that out there is no way you can convince a majority of americans you should be in power. It like a bad B movie every time I hear you all spout the same old lame shit every time. get a barf bag cause you got 3 more years. Hey maybe you will lose some weight over the deal and the rest of us wont have to pay your medical bills.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:30 pmcome on KS a little paroniod? you got quite smoking crack you are becoming one of those conspiracy theorist. Like Bush blew TWC so he could attack Iraq. You got to give me your stash it has got to be really good.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:36 pmWow, nice rant Critical thinker.
Care to join reality? or you going to just continue spewing hate and vitriol. I especially love the line where you tell us to “grow up” then in the next sentence you say “NOT”. been taking lessons from your four year old? I don’t know where you get the idea we support terrorists suicide bombers, (most likely from your pal Limbaugh) but I don’t. I don’t like the killing at all. Dems have come up with a solid platform, and everytime they do they are branded as traitors etc…
Please pay attention, it makes for a better debate.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:37 pmokay all you brilliant scholars explain to me how we lost the war in Iraq.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:42 pmHand over of power Iraq went forward
Elections went forward 3 times
A new IRaq government has been formed
What exactly has the terrorist actually accomplished with all the dead civilians they killed.
If your family was killed by a suicide bomber you would bve singing a different tune.
Can you spell hypocrite!
Der Leader convinces more republicans daily of his ineptitude at anything leadership related. Imagine joking with a blind reporter about his shades? and he wants respect? GW Terror and the PNAC Reich will lose power because Americans aren’t entirely brainless CT.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:43 pmUncritical thinker….
Having Zarquawi dead doesn’t make this thing a success.
Did you read about the violence in Iraq today, three years after we were supposed to be greeted as liberators? Go to hell along with the rest of the Bush apologists. Iraq is a disaster. Someday it will get fixed. But that won’t exonerate Bush from being a supreme screw up.
Worst president ever.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:44 pm“Lobotomy in a can” my friends, “Lobotomy in a can”.
June 14th, 2006 at 4:52 pmIf we take this trash and do nothing we too have become addicted to the lobotomy in a can that the other side has chosen to chase reality with.
krazny
June 14th, 2006 at 4:57 pmI just have drop down to your level so you can understnd me. Tell what is the dems platform. I heard a lot of talk but no substance. It all sounds like they just don’t have the stomach to stand up to the terroist. Ask Canda who supposedly were against the war and just uncovered a plot to behead the PM. You want tom talk about reality, ask the families of 911 what their reality is, ask the families of the mass murdered in Iraq what their reality is, ask the families of murdered victims in Afganistan before that war what their reality is. Ask the victims of Kuwait what their reality is. Your reality is as long as it doesn’t happen to me it doesn;t exist. That is not reality that’s denial. The reality is we have not had an attack on US soil, and less soliders have died in Iraq than civilians died in 911. You can’t link Saddam to 911, but neither could they link OJ to Nicoles murder. Ever hear UN resolution 1441, or the gulf war 91. Iraq was shooting at our pilots every day. That’s okay with you? Your reality is you can’t see from your house. Don’t even start that reality bullshit. You believe what ever reality you want in your cozy life, and I will look at the brave soliders who have a lot more conviction than a bunch of blow hards on some lame blog. The day you actually put your own life on the line for what you believe instead whine from your comfy life then maybe someone might take you serious.
[...] Think Progress [...]
June 14th, 2006 at 5:04 pmoh Dave you are so brilliant why don’t you run for president. Dems platform “blame everybody else” How’s that working for you? You want to know what a surpreme screw up is? Bill CLinton spending time with Monica instead of taking out OBL. That my friend is a supreme screw up. Blame Bush for your lack of balls, now that’s a good one. The only disaster here is you are clueless. I don’t apoligize to you or anybody else for actually don’t something instead of hoping the terrorist will play nice. Oh and by the way Oh Dave I won’t be going to hell, I actually have faith.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:07 pmWorked for the republicans dickhead so when you signing up there big boy? the army could use you, or you too old, fat , stupid to go?
June 14th, 2006 at 5:09 pmI already served asshole. What have you done for your country other than blow it out your ass.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:11 pmYou should pull your head out of your ass before you try to do any critical thinking, the republicans have done nothing but screw up this country since Bush took office.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:12 pmenjoying those 9/11 deaths, ar they?
June 14th, 2006 at 5:12 pmKrazny there are two kinds of people in this world. People talk about doing something, and people who actually have the balls to do it. You seem to do a lot of talking, but no action sound familiar. If Bush is some lame, and dems can’t beat him twice, that does say much for the dems. I just can’t wait to hear all the whining when you get your ass handed to youm AGAIN in November. I will be voting (anybody but dems)
June 14th, 2006 at 5:14 pmJust as Robert Redford said, Republicans are all about strategy, not substance.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:18 pmBelieve what you want. I am far more a man then you will ever be.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:19 pmBush was only elected once, his first term was an appointment (as well as a disappointment).
June 14th, 2006 at 5:21 pmI love to sit hear and discuss this with you but I actually have a job and a life. Hey TY if call keeping the terroist from bombing us again a screw up I will take that. Whine whine whine, it is really getting old. Why don’t you try and come up with something more creative. Maybe watch TV alittle more maybe you can come up with somethi9ng other than whining. Next time you feel like whining think about all the mass graves found in Iraq that should cure it. Oh right you don;t care!
For evil to succeed only requires decent men to do nothing. Are you a do nothing?
Oh and I can think for myself very well thank you, I don’t need you or Michael Morre to tell me what reality is.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:21 pmFunny the only evil the republicans seem to care about is in oil rich countries. Funny that when Clinton decided to use troops in the balkans the republicans said they could support the troops but not the mission.
CR you are what Rush calls a dittohead. Unthinking obedience to a line of bullshit because your pecker is so small you have to make up for it in other ways. I sincerely doubt you served and if you did it was garbage brigade for the TAN with the dear Decider.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:28 pmI fail to see what the big deal here is except more of the same dumbassness from the elementary school-brained left. They can’t win elections so they have to resort to mental retardation. It’s hilarious to watch them nutshit all over themselves. Thanks for the laugh.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:34 pmI fail to see what the big deal
Comment by tounces — June 14, 2006 @ 5:34 p
If you don’t see it then you are part of the problem. Why don’t you and Bush and the rest of the idiots move to Iraq, so we can get the country back together and on track.
June 14th, 2006 at 5:54 pmGuess our trolls had to check in with Rove for further instructions.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:18 pmMaybe they’re not getting good reception on thier tinfoil hats?
June 14th, 2006 at 6:26 pmgood one!
June 14th, 2006 at 6:33 pmThat’s right, schmuch… Quote JFK. See what that gets you!
June 14th, 2006 at 6:34 pmThe GOP’s confidential Iraq memo…
From Think Progress:On Thursday, the House of Representatives will hold a debate on the Iraq war. Media reports say Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) “hopes to match the serious, dignified tone of deliberation that preceded the Gulf war, in 1991.”…
June 14th, 2006 at 6:38 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIs that a real memo. If so that really pisses me off. Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates. Maybe not the same kind of rate’s (AC) would get you. And if it is true and that is the attack plan why hasn’t someone figured out a way to shut it down. It is certainly not a new plan used by the GOP and it’s not the first time we have heard it.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:47 pmIf the media was truly liberal like the right says it is, it would be all over the place.
June 14th, 2006 at 6:54 pm[...] You can read the confidential memo for yourself HERE. Please find the ThinkProgress link here. [...]
June 14th, 2006 at 7:29 pmWhy don’t the Democrats stop listening to the RW media (NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC, CNN, most newspapers, most talk radio) and counter it by properly labeling Republicans as follows:
1. Refusing to capture Osama Bin Laden, Protect Saudi 911/ funders, weakening America’s national defense, misusing our troops.
2. Raising Middle class taxes (everytime they increase the deficit)
3. Anti-Freedom, Anti America (Everytime they try to take away your rights)
4. Siding with insurance companies instead of health care patients.
5. Destroying Education with voucher schemes.
6. Environmental Destroying Extremists + Wackos.
Ask Why conservatives hate our military and america so much.
Remember – if you want people to buy your cereal, you better learn how to package the box first. Then we’ll debate details. (+ win everytime.)
June 14th, 2006 at 7:37 pmI dom’t think Boehner’s memo says anything like your summary. You did not summarize in good faith. I think you wrote summary to make him look bad.
Dario
June 14th, 2006 at 8:03 pmDario, read it again. The memo specifically states re-examining the conditions that led to the U.S. military action after the events of 9/11,” which while not directly implicating 9/11 as the reason for Iraq, link it implicitly. Iraq was going to happen with or without 9/11. Continuing to rely upon 9/11 at this late of a date is pathetic for a party of “Strength” such as the Republicans.
New blood, please!
June 14th, 2006 at 8:12 pm[...] ThinkProgress obtained the latest Republican strategy memo leading up to the midterm elections. TP Summarizes: 1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.†[...]
June 14th, 2006 at 8:15 pmYada, Yada, Yada..same shit different day (as 2000) Thr Republicans have NOTHING, except failure, slime and character assassination…they can’t talk about the issues..just listen to them, lies, rhetoric and slime…same as the last (almost) six years
June 14th, 2006 at 9:26 pmYada, Yada, Yada..same shit different day (as 2000) The Republicans have NOTHING, except failure, slime and character assassination…they can’t talk about the issues..just listen to them, lies, rhetoric and slime…same as the last (almost) six years
June 14th, 2006 at 9:27 pmRead the memo, print a copy. Put it in your pocket. When you find some jackass repeating this drivel, take it out, roll it up, and smack them with it.
June 14th, 2006 at 9:41 pmI hope that Dems will take a copy of this REPUG talking memo to the floor with them and discuss the fact that the REPUBS have no REAL PLANS as usual, just talking points. Repubs talk a good game, but they don’t walk the walk. What has this ADMIN done for you and your family in the last 5 years? Nothing, absolutely nothing.
June 14th, 2006 at 10:55 pmThe MAJORITY REPUBLICANS have proven how to run this country … into the ground.
Here is a video preview of the congressional debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL_76KEp2Gk&mode=related&search=
June 14th, 2006 at 11:03 pmInteresting that Boehner was quoting JFK, a QUALIFIED president, who said, “one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.†But Bush HAS taken the path of surrender and submission. Even before 9/11, Bush submitted in the face off with China over our disabled spy plane. Bush allowed China to steal our technology on that plane, then chop up the plane and return it to us in that destroyed condition as “punishment” to the U.S. for daring to land the disabled plane on Chinese territory. Bush lied and claimed that China had NOT stolen our secrets, that the crew members had destroyed them with little axes first. 2 weeks later it came out that this was false, China HAD GOTTEN IT ALL. The U.S. media, after congratulating Bush for his “great success” in getting the crew back (!), played down the stolen secrets and China chopping up the plane. China also got Bush to grovel and say, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry” to China! The press played it like, “Isn’t it great that Bush put one over on us! What a great political ploy!” Thus beginning a trend that the press has continued ever since: whenever Bush has a failure, and deceit to cover it up, the media does not condemn the incompetence or deceit, but instead compliments Bush and Rove for boldly getting away with selling a false victory to the public.
June 14th, 2006 at 11:47 pmAfter Bush let 9/11 happen without trying to stop it, he sold himself as “the hero of 9/11.” And the press echoed this lie, and the public bought it.
Bush is that rare freak, a belligerent bully who is also simultaneously a weakling and a coward. Actually, it is not rare, but it is rare that a person with this syndrome gets to become president of a major country.
The syndrome is this: Bush is a weakling and submissive to a strong country that really threatens us (China), while belligerent and violent toward countries that pose no threat, but are seen as “easy wins.” (Iraq and Iran)
Bush is busy kissing China’s ass and giving away our nuclear technology and money to them. Yet our media almost never reports this.
“Why is this not on the news? Why doesnt ABC or NBC or any of the other networks cover this? It seems to me like it would get the rates.”
Comment by vincent.
You will never get the words out of bush’s mouth, and the media is bush’s mouth.
I could have told you vincent, this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you.
June 15th, 2006 at 12:42 am“I think you wrote summary to make him look bad.”
Commment by dario.
Unfortunately, and I mean that somehow, there is simply no other way to report it. I think it’s fairly representative. It is sad and unfortunate that we have politicians like this, but you have to face it in order to move on.
It is hard I know. I had to admit that bill clinton was a war criminal also. Think: Balkanization. That’s where bush is headed in the middle east.
We do have to ignore the media and rely on this tool here. We might surprise everyone come election day.
No more war candidates. No more republicans, ever. No more democrats who vote republican.
June 15th, 2006 at 12:46 amSo today Thursday the Republicans with Karl Rove’s plan are launching an all out attack on the Democrats in DC on the Iraq war/occupation fiasco > lol, whatever the same old smearing crap repackaged! Rove is a very ugly person on the inside and the outside too!
June 15th, 2006 at 1:36 amdon’t pick on dario folks…’waaaah, that’s a poor summary’ isn’t a very compelling argument and it ignores the relentless spin-machine that is the republican party.
try this on for size-
the memo states, “Just this morning, President George W. Bush traveled to Baghdad to meet the newly appointed Prime Minster of Iraq, Nouri al-Maliki and to discuss our growing partnership with the new democratic ally.”
this is a perceived strength as far as they’re concerned. but it really isn’t a strength at all. that bush had to travel in secrecy should underscore the fact that here we are, in the fourth year of “liberation”, and iraq still isn’t secure enough for bush to travel there.
now, according to the administration:
how long was this war supposed to last? [six months...]
was there supposed to be an insurgency? [no, they were going to be greeted with flowers, as liberators]
how were we going to pay for the war? [iraqi oil revenues]
the war is in its fourth year, almost 2500 servicemen dead/tens of thousands wounded, probably greater than 100,000 iraqis dead, $300 billion and counting…
if someone can’t just take the plain language that was spoken in 2002-2003, contrast it with the plain mess we are in today and throw it back in their faces, screaming ,”THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU TRUST REPUBLICANS” then america is screwed.
and the president still has to ’sneak in’ to iraq because it’s not secure.
June 15th, 2006 at 2:01 amthat republicans can point to this as a victory or a strong point…well, you know the rest:
damn the democrats. damn the media. who will hold these assholes accountable?
the full text of that memo is disgusting. 9/11 is invoked no fewer than seven times.
republicans would never stoop to using a tragedy for political gain would they?
cheap. disgusting. inexcusable.
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU TRUST REPUBLICANS.
June 15th, 2006 at 2:05 am[...] Pho tipped me off here about this: ThinkProgress has obtained a “Confidential Messaging Memo†from Boehner instructing his caucus to conduct a very different kind of deliberation. Here’s a quick summary: [...]
June 15th, 2006 at 4:46 am[...] If there was any doubt that the decision by the House Majority Leader, Republican John Boehner of Ohio, to hold a “debate” today on the “Global War on Terror” and Iraq is a political stunt, it was erased yesterday once his strategy memo was leaked. The memo encourages Republicans to exploit the September 11th attacks and to paint Democrats as weak, sheepish, and wavering in their support for the use of force against terrorism. The rules of the “debate” have been rigged to “not allow the resolution to be amended, nor will alternative resolutions be allowed on the floor for a vote.” [...]
June 15th, 2006 at 8:36 amWhat a bunch of assholes!!!!!! That’s all they have to stand on September 11. I have never seen a worthless bunch of do nothings exploiting a tragedy as much as they have. They still try to blame Clinton for everything too!!!!! Well, I guess we all know that September 11 should not have happened because the Bushies knew all about it!!!!! The Democrats need to shove their own words down their throats like “progress is being made” in Iraq. What progress? I don’t see any!!!! And, “Osama-Dead or Alive” it seems they’ve forgotten him-easier to go after found in a rat hole Sadam!!!! And “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job” and “we always obtain court authority before we spy” BULL!!!! I could go on and on. And my all time favorite “we do not comment on something that is an on-going investigation” They do it all the time. Bush did it yesterday at the Rose Garden conference by saying the stupid comment “We all breathed a sigh of relief” when Rove aka Turd Blossom wasn’t indicted. So it’s not on-going anymore so comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And “I will fire anyone who is connected to outing V. Plame. Well, Rove was involved. Let’s oust the jerk!!!!!!! Why doesn’t the press pick up on this out of control dictatorship administration. the Democrats need to call them on these words!!!!!!!!!!
June 15th, 2006 at 9:24 am[...] If there was any doubt that the decision by the House Majority Leader, Republican John Boehner of Ohio, to hold a “debate†today on the “Global War on Terror†and Iraq is a political stunt, it was erased yesterday once his strategy memo was leaked. The memo encourages Republicans to exploit the September 11th attacks and to paint Democrats as weak, sheepish, and wavering in their support for the use of force against terrorism. The rules of the “debate†have been rigged to “not allow the resolution to be amended, nor will alternative resolutions be allowed on the floor for a vote.†[...]
June 15th, 2006 at 11:43 amDare…
I dare you. A brief stop now before we move on to the flag burning amendment.
June 15th, 2006 at 11:43 amNearly four years after it authorized the use of force in Iraq, the House today will embark on its first extended debate on the war, with Republican leaders daring Democrat…
The breathtaking cynicism expressed by bastards like this are not a secret anymore. 67% of the people are on to them. Rumors of our stupidity are greatly exaggerated, they just don’t know it yet! The curtain is up, and after watching the play enough times, we all know the script. Now, someone please inform the democrats in congress.
June 15th, 2006 at 11:45 amYou people are scary. Honestly. The majority of you simply spew different versions of the liberal talking points. These must be disseminated directly from the DNC to the blogosphere to you. The rest of you answer with the Limbaugh letter talking points. Do any of you have a single original thought? At least conservatives attempt to support their arguments using logic and facts. The lefties have nothing but venom and name calling. Your “answers” aren’t answers at all, just regurgitation – it’s like some Orwellian nightmare: Repeat the propaganda often enough and the lemmings will eventually follow. Oh and if we have to crack a few skulls along the way for the common good, well then so be it.
For the left, the end always justifies the means. What you people fail to understand is that these people, the enemy, would gladly give their own life to kill you and your family. They believe with all of their heart that this assures them a place in heaven. You can’t reason with them – they’re like democrats – logic has no place in their world, only the cause. That is why the left defends these scumbags, they empathize with them. They are kindred spirits. If they weren’t so in love with their Volvo’s and Beamers they would consider committing suicide if they could destroy the ultimate in evil: “GW Bush”.
You idiots don’t know what evil is. Have another latte and curse those idiots in the red states for voting for Bush while getting high on your misplaced sense of superiority. You people are truly sick.
I guess Liberalism really is a disease.
June 15th, 2006 at 12:07 pm#185.
“I guess Liberalism really is a disease.”
No, it’s just spreading like one. The difference is, disease is bad. Liberalism is good. It is not a political stance, necessarily, it is a quality of mind.
I think it telling that republicans refuse to be liberal. They are relics of a less-thoughtful, more hateful era. Their day is over, it’s just taking a while thanks to this media that keeps us so ill informed that we make stupid comments as I noted at the top of this post.
June 15th, 2006 at 12:28 pmBoehner over estimates the Democrats. He really didn’t have to go through all that trouble to devise a strategy against his ineffective adversaries. All he has to do is walk up to them and yell BOO!
I’m still waiting for the Dems in Congress to show us they are no longer a bunch of cowering wimps. Until they do so, they are nothing but a bunch of cowering wimps.
June 15th, 2006 at 1:08 pmBoehner pulls a boner.
This “Iraq Debate” is obscene and unAmerican. It’s just a bunch of archconservative political blather trying to convince the American people that Bush wasn’t lying about all sorts of things all along, including continuing to link Iraq to 9/11 (which most Americans should find intellectually insulting).
Republicans are trying to unpop a balloon. Won’t happen.
June 15th, 2006 at 1:52 pm“Well, isn’t this nice? Is it too much to hope that a member of the press corps will print it out and ask him about it when the camersa are rolling? Or maybe the next time he’s on a talk show?” Comment by DuctTape
****It’s been a busy week but I needed a good laugh so I thought I’d drop in at TP and see how the moonbats were flying. Thank you, Judd for including the text of the Boehner memo. (It was so MUCH more interesting than the DemParty “talking points”.) I was just having a hard time figuring out what was so “vile” in the memo to make progs foam at the mouth more than usual. The memo re-counts the good news from the war that is all too often missing in independent media, MSM and progressive publications. Just think – IF the military and President had been foolish enough to listen to Nancy, Jack, John, Russ etc. the poor, mis-understood (but nonetheless, deader than a door nail) Zarqawi would be free to hone his blade sharpening skills and IED positioning tactics.
This just in – Maliki’s forces are having some SUCCESS in Baghdad?? Let’s hope that continues!!! I’m sorry to bring MORE good news – it’s hard to be as morose as a prog when good things happen once in a while.
June 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pm#187
And when the liberals start actually winning elections in the U.S., will this so-called “quality of mind” start producing results?
June 15th, 2006 at 2:55 pmI already served asshole. What have you done for your country other than blow it out your ass.
Comment by critical thinker #137
critically stinking,
…the mission isn’t done yet?
…take your stupid inbred Bushite al Cracker a*s BACK!!!
…don’t “cut ‘n’ run”!
June 15th, 2006 at 4:52 pmThere can be no doubt that the attack ads by the likes of the Swift Boat mob against John Kerry and the despicable smears by the likes of Karl Rove, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Limbaugh and almost all of Screech Radio and Shout TV like Fox News, will be out in force, dirtier than ever between now and November. Republicans, will never accept a debate on any subject without responding with character defamation and attacks of breathtaking hatred and vitriol.
Democrats must press hard on issues like affordable health care, obscene out-of-control spending on pork barrel projects like $435 million on Alaska’s bridges to nowhere and Louisiana’s $700 million to move railroad tracks, $9.8 billion per month on an illegal war in Iraq which has killed 2,500 U.S. military, wounded over 18,000 more, killed nearly 100,000 innocent Iraqi citizens and an endless list of Republicans’ profiteering and greed and corruption of epic proportions.
Hammering home all of these issues will mean Democrats have to play hardball as never before. We cannot let the Republicans use the excuse for their failed leader’s illegal and disastrous war in Iraq to deflect from these major issues by allowing them to create a mushroom cloud of fear if we don’t succumb to Bush’s demands that in order to protect America he must strip away our freedoms and liberties in the U.S. Constitution.
Each time Bush proclaims and asserts such absolute power by usurping and circumventing the U. S. Constitutiion and stripping away our freedoms and liberties he fulfills the goals and wildest dreams of the terrorists and enemies of America.
In case he doesn’t get the message, Democrats need to proclaim to the American people that G. W. Bush and his gutless, rubber stamp Republican-controlled U.S. Congress that our United States Constitution is not, as his Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales proclaimed about the Geneva Convention Accords, “quaint and obsolete.”
One of the ways to get the message out, for example, would be to get together all the well-documented video footage of Republicans standing en masse on the floor of the House of Representatives, cheering the departure of the most crooked individual in American politics, Tom DeLay’s parting words — but especially showing how much contempt these corrosive Republicans have for the American citizens.
When these corrupt, thoroughly depraved Republican congressmen stand and celebrate their swindling, fraud, bribery and outright thievery against the American people they send the message loud and clear that they and the warmongering administration they represent are above the law and can flaunt it with impunity just as easily as G. W. Bush proclaims that his powers are so great that he can circumvent and disobey the laws of our U.S. Constitution.
It’s not just the corruption; it’s the lies, deception and reckless, bellicose policies which have driven away our once-friendly allies and made America and the world a more dangerous place to live. Mr. Bush may believe he has the power to wage preemptive war but he does not have the power or the right to preempt the United States Constitution. Neither he, nor anyone who purports to represent the people of America, is above the law.
June 15th, 2006 at 10:32 pmyea, right, 4MR11B. that’s pretty cute.
just wanted to ask- what alternate universe you happen to live in?
i used to be a libertarian. don’t know if you know anything about the ideological scale, but most people consider that to be “conservative” (whatever that means anymore) and tend to associate libertarians with republicans fairly often. rarely ever with democrats though.
but you know what? i’m sick of republicans. i don’t even want to be associated with them, even in the most minute way, which is why i quit the libertarians. as far as i’m concerned republicans need to be defeated in every major race for a very long while.
and i’m going to do my part to help achieve that.
June 16th, 2006 at 12:49 ammore treasonous behavior by Bush & the neo-cons…
June 16th, 2006 at 3:40 amTell everyone you see that
the myth that Republicans appear strong on defense exploded with the first plane that hit the world trade center on sept 11, 2001.
http://www.buyblue.biz
June 16th, 2006 at 6:06 amPeople, refer to them as the REPUBLIKLAN PARTY
http://groups.myspace.com/liberaldemocraticpartyoftheunitedstatesofamerica
June 16th, 2006 at 6:25 amSo what. The Dems have the play book and have ample time to implement a counter, but to do so would mean they actually have to stand up and fight. Stand up and take the issues head on and fight. You must be dreaming if this excuse for a political party has a back bone, it doesn’t. They simply pander to the same 40% of the people that actually go and vote, in the process they turn off the 60% who don’t because they can not tell the difference between the two.
Progressives and Liberals need a new party. One with some cujones, some back bone to stand and fight for what is right. They may not win the battle but in the end they will win the war, IF someone somewhere would simply stand up say enough is enough and fight for what is right.
I am forever more a
Disgusted Dem.
Bill Pellegrini.
June 16th, 2006 at 9:31 amI think there needs to be one phrase repeated over and over again: “playing politics with our soldiers’ lives.” Say it over and over and over again in the media until it gets carried into the collective unconscious of Americans. This IS what they are doing, and it is sick. When I heard about this I got physically ill. GOPers need to be call on the mat for this cynical game.
Repeat after me: playing politics with our soldiers’ lives. Playing politics with our soldiers’ lives. Playing politics with our soldiers’ lives.
June 16th, 2006 at 12:10 pmWhat do you mean democrats “should” expose Bushites as traitors and war profiteers? We’ve been pointing those facts out for a very long time, quite often to stunning silence, but we’ve been pointing it out nonetheless. War profiteers, domestic agenda rip-off profiteers, stealing from Social Security and giving to the rich profiteers, stealing money from welfare programs and keeping it for themselves profiteers, (ok they started doing most of these things even before little Bush and little Dick were elected, but you have to admit, they really accelerated the pace after 2000).
June 16th, 2006 at 1:56 pmThe real agenda of the Republicans in 2000 and beyond were easily discernible to anyone paying attention, and were discernible for at least a decade before that election.
[...] 1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.†2. Attack opponents ad hominem. The memo describes those who opposes President Bush’s policies in Iraq as “sheepish,†“weak,†and “prone to waver endlessly.†3. Create a false choice. The memo says the decision is between supporting President Bush’s policies and hoping terrorist threats will “fade away on their own.†You can read the confidential memo for yourself HERE. http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/14/boehner-memo/ [...]
June 16th, 2006 at 1:59 pmIt’s time to bring this kingdom to its knees. What we need is a national strike. NO SHOPPING, NO TRAVELING, NO WORK, NO TAXES, NO TRAVEL, NO NOTHING for 72 hurs. All across this country, bring the money machines to a halt. If they don’t get the message in 72 hrs. we can go 1 week. Ghandi did it in India, They did it in France, we can do it here. Let the bastards starve, Put the crooks in jail or kill them.
June 16th, 2006 at 2:30 pmI would really respect my democratic leadership much more if they would grow some balls and just walk out in mass from this dherade. Then hold a press conference on the capital steps just like the contract on america with the newt and tell the country what a scam this puppet government this Democracy has become. It’s disgusting and so unethical to even participate in this ripoff. Come on Dems grow some balls an tell it like it is.
June 16th, 2006 at 2:40 pm“Under Dem leadership, would the spread of Democracy be an easier, less contested process?”
this is the scariest thing i’ve read so far. i thought “manifest destiny” was discredited? who are we to force our brand of government on people who don’t want it?
June 16th, 2006 at 3:15 pm“Under Dem leadership, would the spread of Democracy be an easier, less contested process?”
this is the scariest thing i’ve read so far. i thought “manifest destiny” was discredited? who are we to force our brand of government on people who don’t want it?
June 16th, 2006 at 3:15 pm“okay all you brilliant scholars explain to me how we lost the war in Iraq.
Hand over of power Iraq went forward
Elections went forward 3 times
A new IRaq government has been formed
What exactly has the terrorist actually accomplished with all the dead civilians they killed.
If your family was killed by a suicide bomber you would bve singing a different tune.
Can you spell hypocrite!”
um … we’re still there. still dying. with no end in sight. and, yes, i can spell “hypocrite,” i can spell “be,” and i can also correctly punctuate an interrogatory sentence. this has what to do with the fact that dubya and his cronies have exploited the events of 9/11 ad nauseum to further their own self-interests, while protecting their friends in the governments that actually funded the terrorist attacks on the WTC?
June 16th, 2006 at 3:54 pm“You people are scary. Honestly. The majority of you simply spew different versions of the liberal talking points. These must be disseminated directly from the DNC to the blogosphere to you. The rest of you answer with the Limbaugh letter talking points. Do any of you have a single original thought? At least conservatives attempt to support their arguments using logic and facts. The lefties have nothing but venom and name calling. Your “answers†aren’t answers at all, just regurgitation – it’s like some Orwellian nightmare: Repeat the propaganda often enough and the lemmings will eventually follow. Oh and if we have to crack a few skulls along the way for the common good, well then so be it.
For the left, the end always justifies the means. What you people fail to understand is that these people, the enemy, would gladly give their own life to kill you and your family. They believe with all of their heart that this assures them a place in heaven. You can’t reason with them – they’re like democrats – logic has no place in their world, only the cause. That is why the left defends these scumbags, they empathize with them. They are kindred spirits. If they weren’t so in love with their Volvo’s and Beamers they would consider committing suicide if they could destroy the ultimate in evil: “GW Bushâ€.
You idiots don’t know what evil is. Have another latte and curse those idiots in the red states for voting for Bush while getting high on your misplaced sense of superiority. You people are truly sick.
I guess Liberalism really is a disease.
Comment by 4MR11B —”
i don’t know whether to laugh or cry. there is so much irony in someone spewing such thick, sticky venom towards liberals while condemning us for spewing “venom,” calling us “idiots” while dissing us for “namecalling,” and dismissing all of our cogent points as mindless propaganda while dispensing, piece for piece, cut-and-dried rightwing rhetoric, that it’s almost more like brilliant satire than an actual stance.
don’t tell me i don’t know what evil is, you didactic solipsist. it’s standing right in front of me, shaking its finger at me from its moral high ground, justifying the extermination of an entire group of people because it claims they want to do the same thing to us, and it isn’t capable of seeing that it’s NO DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE.
June 16th, 2006 at 4:12 pm[...] Majority Leader Boner Writes tour de force entitled “Yourn Kampf” [...]
June 16th, 2006 at 6:06 pmIraq Stuff – If Hillary was president, the libs wouldn’t have liberated Iraq because Iraqis dont vote for the President of the US, so Libs dont care about them. The tree huggers dont care about Iraqis because there are no trees in Iraq, the animal rights activists dont care because they dont know if people are eating dogs or not. There arent any black guys impregnating white girls, so there are no abortion, or condom laws.
June 17th, 2006 at 2:47 amIn response to 4MR11B
First, you might want to read The Art of War. It shouldn’t take anything to make you understand that urban warfare isn’t high ground for our troops. If there is a brain other than “Bush’s Brain” on the right they would understand that (forgetting how we got there) the only viable strategy is to adopt Murtha’s strategy of regional redeployment turning the urban warfare over to the Iraqis. Provide air support, strategic and tactical training and support. Do you really believe that in a house to house or one on one scenario a marine with a 70 lb load had a decided advantage over an insurgent carrying nothing but an AK-47 and some ammo clips? If it was your butt over there, wouldn’t you respect speed, agility and mobility?
As stupid as the war was and as poorly as it has been executed, we still might have a shot at democratization of Iraq with a logical approach. Since 47% of them feel it’s okay to kill Americans, let’s focus where our technology goves us maximum advantage to the overall effort but gets our troops out of the middle of a civil war. By doing so we might be able to get the job done with less than 3,000 casualties–we’ve just passed 2,500. But then again, as the Administration says “It’s just a number”
June 17th, 2006 at 12:29 pmRichard of June 15, 2006 @ 10:32 pm spelled out what liberals object to and believe. Comment 193 did this with correct spelling, good grammar, and no curse words. What a pleasure! This is real critical thinking. Some authors condemn those on the other side of doing things that their doing in their comments. This makes their comment not credible. They are to blinded by their rage to see this. If people are not careful they will be brain washed like many already are.
June 17th, 2006 at 5:08 pmThanks Richard.
A Total Boehner…
As a Libertarian, or perhaps more accurately, a Jeffersonian Democrat, I will state with conviction that there is almost no case where the use of force by the State against anyone can “protect my ideals.” I suggest that the ideals held by the Majorit…
June 18th, 2006 at 1:36 pm“I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. there is so much irony in someone spewing such thick, sticky venom towards liberals while condemning us for spewing “venom,†calling us “idiots†while dissing us for “namecalling,†and dismissing all of our cogent points as mindless propaganda while dispensing, piece for piece, cut-and-dried rightwing rhetoric, that it’s almost more like brilliant satire than an actual stance.
don’t tell me i don’t know what evil is, you didactic solipsist. it’s standing right in front of me, shaking its finger at me from its moral high ground, justifying the extermination of an entire group of people because it claims they want to do the same thing to us, and it isn’t capable of seeing that it’s NO DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE. ”
First of all, I would suggest “crying” as your choice. Crying, whining, etc. seem to be liberal strengths.
Secondly, if believing and espousing truly conservative principles is “cut-and-dried rightwing rhetoric” then so be it. I happen to disagree with many Republicans on many issues. I have a set of principles that I will not compromise for any political party.
Yes, I proudly would eliminate the jihadistas who are willing to die in an effort to destroy our freedoms. But I am different then they are. I am perfectly wiling to leave them alone to live their lives in the manner they choose as long as they don’t force their way of life on me. And I would certainly feel no compulsion to rejoice in the streets should 3,000 innocent civilians be wiped off the planet.
Finally, if you think a fellow American who proudly served in the Armed Forces for 12 years as an Infantry Officer is the moral equivalent to those sadistic bastards who flew planes into buildings on 9/11 then you really need some help.
“I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.” – Voltaire.
I think the Muslim version goes something like “Convert you infidel scum or die!”
“Or as Mohammed Bouyeri wrote in the note he attached to the corpse of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker he had just assassinated, “Islam will be victorious through the blood of martyrs who spread its light in every dark corner of this earth.”
Interestingly, van Gogh’s murderer was frustrated by the mistaken motives attributed to him, insisting at his trial: “I did what I did purely out of my beliefs. I want you to know that I acted out of conviction and not that I took his life because he was Dutch or because I was Moroccan and felt insulted.”
Although terrorists state their jihadi motives loudly and clearly, Westerners and Muslims alike too often fail to hear them. Islamic organizations, Canadian author Irshad Manji observes, pretend that “Islam is an innocent bystander in today’s terrorism.”
What the terrorists want is abundantly clear. It requires monumental denial not to acknowledge it, but we Westerners have risen to the challenge.” – http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2798
June 18th, 2006 at 10:49 pm[...] These people are just too much. Not that this really is a surprise, but it is striking in the audacious nakedness of the political tactics involved. 1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.†2. Attack opponents ad hominem. The memo describes those who opposes President Bush’s policies in Iraq as “sheepish,†“weak,†and “prone to waver endlessly.†3. Create a false choice. The memo says the decision is between supporting President Bush’s policies and hoping terrorist threats will “fade away on their own.†[...]
June 19th, 2006 at 9:32 pmI find it most interesting the use of Democratic President JFK’s words. When placed in proper historical context, these words were spoken during a time in our history when we were truly on the brink of a global war. These words were spoken at a time when many dug shelters and prayed they would be far enough from the blast zone, not really knowing or understanding what survival might be like after a nuclear disaster. The Russians were placing nuclear missiles less then 100 miles away and two countries were racing toward a very real game of nuclear chicken.
Compare it to this point in history. We hold the military cards. The regime is into nation building. There are more governmental programs for domestic spying. Our media is controlled by a select few. We’ve bought into the materialistic social trap. Got a nice place to live, got a good car to drive, still got a job, let’s not rock the boat… Remember those words Janice Joplin sang, “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose…”
We Americans have surrendered our freedom at a cost so high; we will be paying that price with our submission for many years to come.
This is what we’re reduced to unless we do something about this regime. Turn off their propaganda, spread the word, help create change one story at a time, and just as East Germany fell in a quite manner, so too can this bloody regime fall. Remember, JFK didn’t have to use a single National Guardsman to get the Russians to withdraw the missiles from Cuba. Can this regime say the same? How many more must die in the name of corporate greed?
June 20th, 2006 at 1:36 am“I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. there is so much irony in someone spewing such thick, sticky venom towards liberals while condemning us for spewing “venom,†calling us “idiots†while dissing us for “namecalling,†and dismissing all of our cogent points as mindless propaganda while dispensing, piece for piece, cut-and-dried rightwing rhetoric, that it’s almost more like brilliant satire than an actual stance.
don’t tell me i don’t know what evil is, you didactic solipsist. it’s standing right in front of me, shaking its finger at me from its moral high ground, justifying the extermination of an entire group of people because it claims they want to do the same thing to us, and it isn’t capable of seeing that it’s NO DIFFERENT THAN THEY ARE. â€
First of all, I would suggest “crying†as your choice. Crying, whining, etc. seem to be liberal strengths.
Secondly, if believing and espousing truly conservative principles is “cut-and-dried rightwing rhetoric†then so be it. I happen to disagree with many Republicans on many issues. I have a set of principles that I will not compromise for any political party.
Yes, I proudly would eliminate the jihadistas who are willing to die in an effort to destroy our freedoms. But I am different then they are. I am perfectly wiling to leave them alone to live their lives in the manner they choose as long as they don’t force their way of life on me. And I would certainly feel no compulsion to rejoice in the streets should 3,000 innocent civilians be wiped off the planet.
Finally, if you think a fellow American who proudly served in the Armed Forces for 12 years as an Infantry Officer is the moral equivalent to those sadistic bastards who flew planes into buildings on 9/11 then you really need some help.
“I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.†– Voltaire.
I think the Muslim version goes something like “Convert you infidel scum or die!â€
“Or as Mohammed Bouyeri wrote in the note he attached to the corpse of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker he had just assassinated, “Islam will be victorious through the blood of martyrs who spread its light in every dark corner of this earth.â€
Interestingly, van Gogh’s murderer was frustrated by the mistaken motives attributed to him, insisting at his trial: “I did what I did purely out of my beliefs. I want you to know that I acted out of conviction and not that I took his life because he was Dutch or because I was Moroccan and felt insulted.â€
Although terrorists state their jihadi motives loudly and clearly, Westerners and Muslims alike too often fail to hear them. Islamic organizations, Canadian author Irshad Manji observes, pretend that “Islam is an innocent bystander in today’s terrorism.â€
What the terrorists want is abundantly clear. It requires monumental denial not to acknowledge it, but we Westerners have risen to the challenge.†– http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2798
Comment by 4MR11B — June 18, 2006 @ 10:49 pm
first, liberality is itself the great liberal strength. an open mind, a generous spirit, and the courage to stand up and say “this is wrong,” when we are perpetrating those wrongs: that’s liberality.
second, i don’t know what your principles are, and i don’t profess to. i just know what i read: a blanket dismissal of the liberal POV, pretty much chapter and verse from neocon u, and that’s what i addressed, point for point. you didn’t respond directly to much of what i said — i.e., that you accuse liberals of spouting venom while spouting venom, that you condemn liberals for namecalling while namecalling, and that you dismiss liberal ideas as so-much propaganda while spewing so much propaganda — but that’s pretty much the rightwing MO. history repeats itself, again. lol.
third, nobody in iraq was forcing their way of life on us, here, in the US. it’s the other way around, isn’t it? aren’t we carrying “democracy” to them?
fourth, “muslim” and “terrorist” aren’t the same thing, no matter how often you confuse the two. (tangentially: unless … shall we call christians terrorists? rightwing christian fanatics have bombed abortion clinics and murdered doctors, after all, in their zeal to right what they see as a fundamental wrong: if all muslims are responsible for the acts of their fanatics, then aren’t all christians responsible for the acts of theirs? it’s a point to ponder. somehow, i doubt that you will do so.)
fifth, i’m not interested in playing “i’ll show you mine if you show me yours,” but i suggest you don’t introduce the comparison of service records into the mix here. you might find you’re not the only one who has given years to his or her country. then again, perhaps i ought to sit back and let you continue to assume otherwise. it seems to be what you’re best at doing.
sixth, the murder of van gogh is a (related but) different subject, and very telling in that you’d use it for deflection. and, fwiw, you can pull any number of quotes from a variety of sources, but it doesn’t add an iota of validity to your arguments, afaic. and your voltaire is out of context.
seventh, your high moral ground is looking a lot more like nothing but a high horse.
finally, i’m not the one whining. you don’t impress me, jack. *kisses*
June 20th, 2006 at 9:28 pmAll I Know, watching this Administration, it matters. In the end, this country will fall, put your trust in your government and watch it happen. Try to stop it? You see it happening everyday! You feel that you are to small, and the government is to big? It’s like looking into a room from the outside, wanting to do something anything that will matter. Right? Well, get inside that room and see what is really happening.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:53 pm[...] You can read it here as well as that site[ThinkProgress.org]’s commentary here. The attacks we witnessed that day serve as a reminder of the dangers we face as a nation in a post-9/11 world. We can no longer expect oceans between us and our enemies to keep us safe. The plotting and planning taking place in terror camps protected by rogue regimes could no longer go unchecked or unchallenged. In a post-9/11 world, we could no longer allow despots and dictators like the Taliban and Saddam Hussein to ignore international sanctions and resolutions passed by the United Nations Security Council. [...]
September 3rd, 2006 at 7:03 pm[...] You can read it here as well as that site[ThinkProgress.org]’s commentary here. The attacks we witnessed that day serve as a reminder of the dangers we face as a nation in a post-9/11 world. We can no longer expect oceans between us and our enemies to keep us safe. The plotting and planning taking place in terror camps protected by rogue regimes could no longer go unchecked or unchallenged. In a post-9/11 world, we could no longer allow despots and dictators like the Taliban and Saddam Hussein to ignore international sanctions and resolutions passed by the United Nations Security Council. [...]
September 4th, 2006 at 12:06 am[...] 46. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) distributed a memo urging colleagues to exploit 9/11 to defend Bush’s Iraq policy. [Link] [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 6:23 pm[...] 46. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) distributed a memo urging colleagues to exploit 9/11 to defend Bush’s Iraq policy. [Link] [...]
November 7th, 2006 at 12:56 pm[...] Nice “Boner” Boehner’s desire for a “rational debate” on Iraq is underscored by the memo he wrote to GOP members that Think Progress has obtained: 1. Exploit 9/11. The two page memo mentions 9/11 seven times. It describes debating Iraq in the context of 9/11 as “imperative.” 2. Attack opponents ad hominem. The memo describes those who opposes President Bush’s policies in Iraq as “sheepish,” “weak,” and “prone to waver endlessly.” 3. Create a false choice. The memo says the decision is between supporting President Bush’s policies and hoping terrorist threats will “fade away on their own.” [...]
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