Murtha on Rove: ‘He’s Sitting in His Air-Conditioned Office on His Big, Fat Backside, Saying Stay the Course’
Murtha on Rove: ‘He’s Sitting in His Air-Conditioned Office on His Big, Fat Backside, Saying Stay the Course’
Karl Rove attacked Rep. John Murtha during a speech last week in New Hampshire. Rove described Murtha’s Iraq plan as “cutting and running,” and suggested that the 37-year Marine combat veteran would “be with you at the first shots” but not “for the last, tough battles.”
Murtha defended himself this morning on Meet the Press:
MURTHA: He’s in New Hampshire. He’s making a political speech. He’s sitting in his air-conditioned office on his big, fat backside, saying stay the course. That’s not a plan. … We’ve got to change direction. You can’t sit there in the air-conditioned office and tell troops carrying 70 pounds on their backs, inside these armored vessels hit with IEDs every day, seeing their friends blown up, their buddies blown up — and he says stay the course? Easy to say that from Washington, DC.
Full transcript below:
ROVE (TAPE): Like too many Democrats, it strikes me they are ready to give the green light to go to war, but when it gets tough and when it gets difficult, they fall back on that party’s old pattern of cutting and running. They may be with you at the first shots, but they are not going to be there for the last, tough battles. They are wrong and profoundly wrong in their approach.
RUSSERT: Cutting and running.
MURTHA: He’s in New Hampshire. He’s making a political speech. He’s sitting in his air-conditioned office on his big, fat backside, saying stay the course. That’s not a plan. I don’t know what his military experience is, but that’s a political statement. This is a policy difference between me and the White House. I disagree completely with what he’s saying.
Now, let’s give you an example. When we went to Beirut, I said to President Reagan, get out. The other day we were doing a debate and they said, Beirut was a different situation, we cut and run. We didn’t cut and run. President Reagan made the decision to change direction because he knew he couldn’t win it. Even in Somalia, President Clinton made the decision, “we have to change direction.” Even with tax cuts, when we had a tax cut, under Reagan we then had an increase.
We need to change directions. We can’t win a war like this. This guy is sitting back there criticizing — political criticism, getting paid by the public taxpayer, and he’s saying to us, “We’re winning this war and they’re running”? We’ve got to change direction. You can’t sit there in the air-conditioned office and tell troops carrying 70 pounds on their backs inside these armored vessels hit with IEDs every day, seeing their friends blown up, their buddies blown up, and he says stay the course? Easy to say that from Washington, DC.
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That fat back stink must be unbelievable.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:09 pmI love this man.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:11 pm2502 Dead
18490 wounded
3 US soldiers missing
72 jounalists killed
337 Contractors killed of 215 are Americans
226 Coalition troops killed
1780 Coalition troop wounded
250,000 Iraqi CIVILIANS KILLED
True cost of war 3 trillion Dollars Including medical costs for wounded
Iraqi Property destroyed (loads of money) ???
and 1 saddam Hussein captured – — – was it worth it
June 18th, 2006 at 12:12 pm[...] Source… [...]
June 18th, 2006 at 12:17 pmRove talking about War, like his big, bitch backside has ever experienced anything close to war…unless, arguing about who got the last piece of cake counts.
Viva Murtha!
June 18th, 2006 at 12:17 pmRove said the Right use the net to broaden their sexual appeal, DHS Press Secretary, Doyle, Arrested on Child Seduction Charges, agreed.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:21 pmSNAP! That’s going to leave a mark! And rightly so! About time someone threw his crap right back at him. The trolls will be going NUTS over this one. i wonder what Karl will order his flunkies to say in his defense? EEEWWWWW!!! Will Ann ‘opine’?
June 18th, 2006 at 12:24 pmHey, come on, support your Commander in Chief! He knows what it’s like to serve in the military. He did his time in the armed forces. He’s not like some John Kerry, or John Murtha. What did those guys ever do in the military compared to the Commander in Chief? huh? Were they ever Commander in Chief? No! They were on the front lines. No perspective. Bush was not on the front lines, so he has the perspective to stay the course.
And Bush is the Commander in Chief. He’s a War-Time President! He was re-elected because he will stay the course, no matter what!
June 18th, 2006 at 12:26 pmRove’s little attack on Democrats really pissed Murtha off…
Good.
More Democrats need to step up and counter these partisan attacks. I didn’t hear Rove offer any solutions to the Iraq mess, just attacks on the opposition.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:27 pmWell, the story that karl rove tells is that he got into politics because he got beaten up by a girl who supported kennedy for president (rove had a nixon sticker on his bike).
+++++++
1970, Karl Rove sneaks into the campaign office of Illinois Democrat Alan Dixon and steals some letterhead. He then prints up 1000 party invitations
+++++++
Big tough karl.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:27 pmOnly a blind fool stays the course when it’s leading them over a cliff!
Of course, in this case, it’s easy for Rove and the other chickens in the Whitehouse to say it! They aren’t the ones heading over the cliff… yet!
Larry Johnson had a good blog about Rove on his blog:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/06/sacrificing_our.html
They make me sick.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:32 pmI caught this, and have to say that while I support a lot of what Murtha had to say, he certainly did try to get a lot out at once. I would have preffered he speak just a little more slowly and carefully, and perhaps not come across so much foaming at the mouth. I know that’s harsh, but does anyone else agree?
Fundamentally I think the Dems are missing the opportunity to highlight the fact that “we’ll stand down while they stand up” is not a plan. Murtha simply said they don’t have a plan. I think this needs to be articulated much more carefully. The admin has given us nothing with regard to a set of concrete goals to be met by the Iraqi and coalition forces. A set of goals is not a timeline. But they need to be there for the mission to be defined.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:34 pmKarl is a shameless bastard. This could explain why his mother killed herself. Once she discovered what a despicable soul she had spawned she apparently saw no other way out. – Larry Johnson
Sorry, but that was totally unnecessary for Larry to make his point. Perhaps he’s not trying to be taken seriously, I don’t know. But personal attacks don’t have any place in rational discourse. Leave it to their side. If you want to call Karl fat too, that’s fine, just don’t expect people to take you all that seriously.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:40 pmIt’s just as easy for ‘Cut-and-Run’ Murtha to call for surrender from his air conditioned office, or to pronounce Marines guilty of crimes before the investigation is concluded from his air conditiioned office. He is a disgrace.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:43 pmYes, Krysten, that Larry Johnson is all class:
Another fine display of left-wing civility, tolerance and compassion.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:45 pmHi again,
I just came across this response to Karl over at the Scrootiny Hooligans! :)
http://scrutinyhooligans.blogspot.com/2006/06/karl-rove-chickenhawk.html
Yep!! That’s about right! :)
June 18th, 2006 at 12:46 pmWOW … just watch it:
June 18th, 2006 at 12:46 pmRove described Murtha’s Iraq plan as “cutting and running,†and suggested that the 37-year Marine combat veteran would “be with you at the first shots†but not “for the last, tough battles.â€
Yet Rove missed serving himself when he attended 6 different colleges and graduated from none. That’s our karl allright.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:47 pmHe won’t be there for the first or last shots.
I say kudos for John Murtha! My only comment is that he was a bit too civil in responding to Koward Rove. He should also have torn new a**holes for George Waffler Bush and Richard Bloodsucker Cheney.
June 18th, 2006 at 12:48 pmevery single time rove opens his hate-spewing mouth or a lock-step-marching elected r or media sycophant regurgitates a rovian talking point, they should get both barrels right back in their faces, a la cheney… they SHOULD NOT, hell, they MUST NOT be allowed to get away with their ceaseless attempts to polarize the nation…
http://takeitpersonally.blogspot.com/
June 18th, 2006 at 12:50 pmGood job, Rep Murtha. Keep speaking out for the troops.
As a commenter here put it so well: RESCUE THE TROOPS!
June 18th, 2006 at 12:51 pmI’m desperately trying to think of when the democrats have “cut and run”. The only thing that sort of comes to mind is somalia and the bay of pigs. But I think those decisions stand up fine in retrospect. Or maybe the decision to remove missiles from turkey in order to get soviet missles out of cuba and prevent a possible nuclear war?
Surely he’s not saying the end of the vietnam war is an instance of that, because that was done by republican administrations?
June 18th, 2006 at 12:58 pmYes, Krysten, that Larry Johnson is all class:
Karl is a shameless bastard. This could explain why his mother killed herself. Once she discovered what a despicable soul she had spawned she apparently saw no other way out.
Another fine display of left-wing civility, tolerance and compassion.
+++++++
Do all republicans talk like anne coulter?
[who wants to poison people]
Trying to say left wing people, as if only lefties come here, speak and act like johnson is just a broad meaningless statement. An opinion as broad and stupid as ‘all lefties are godless’ or ‘all righties are fundie wacko armageddonists’ maybe ‘all capitalists are communist socialists intent on ruling the world’
I think you mean this guy johnson talks alot like rush or some other shock jock pundit whore
June 18th, 2006 at 12:58 pmDitto what Zoo said…
We need more Dems to act like John Murtha!
June 18th, 2006 at 12:58 pmWhat Rove believes is similar to what former Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleberger said this morning on CNN, when Blitzer asked him how long he thinks the U.S. should stay in Iraq. Eagleberger replied “As long as it takes”. This kind of statement is easy for Eagleberger and Rove and O’Reilly and Limbaugh and Coulter and Hannity and Cheney and others to make as long as there are others to fight their wars. Perhaps they might be whistling a differernt tune if they actually had to end up in a combat zone, such as in Vietnam or the first Gulf War, or if one of their relatives ended up coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan in a body bag.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:06 pmSomeone has just got to give Rove some lessons in military history. The man is so far off the mark with his insane remarkes its -well- insanity. He has lost it completely.
The dems prosecuted and leadership by the dems won WII. The pukes, millions of them, including the Bush clan, were for the Nazis, and were with the war only to make some big bucks.
Korea was going along famously. I was there, we took back all of North Korea. Then the newly elected puke president ordered the troops withdraw 60 miles in the dead of the night. Afraid the Chinese might enter the war. They made it easy for the Chinese to enter the war. I took a bath in the Yalu river and just a few days later we retreated in the middle of the night. A disgrace.
Vietnam was horribly ran by both dem and puke administrations. But who cut and run. Nixon, Kissinger and the rest. Vicgtory with honor was being declared as the NVA chased us out and off the rooftop of the American Embassy in Saigon.
Who got us into Iraq, a war we are supposedly winning although nothing – absolutely nothing except the capture of Hussein and the killing of Zarqawi has been accomplished. Bushco, the pukes who profiteer from war, thats who. Who will get us out? I suspect the dems.
So Roverboy, study up on your military history of the past 70 years, will you please!!
June 18th, 2006 at 1:07 pmYeah, we have to get on the right track! We have to… have a repeat of Blackhawk Down! We’ll call it Blackhawk Down II: Murtha Leaves Iraq.
I find Murtha’s arguments cheap and highly partisan. What he said applies to virtually any White House that has been engaged in a war. Yes, it is easy for the politicians back in the White House to say “stay the course”, but that’s what their job is to do. They have to make tough decisions without crying like babies every time a soldier dies. If that’s the way we ran our military, we’d be surrender-monkeys like the French.
Rove said quite correctly that Murtha and Kerry were cowardly for wanting us to cut and run from Iraq, and the vast majority of the Senate and the House agree with Rove, not Murtha or Kerry. That puts Murtha on the defensive as we see in this interview.
I don’t know what Murtha has been on lately, but bringing up Somalia to defend his argument sounds like something a person who doesn’t know what they’re talking about would do. In fact, I can’t imagine what the soldiers involved in Somalia would think of that statement. Repeat what happened in Somalia??? Has Murtha lost his marbles?
June 18th, 2006 at 1:07 pmseixon:
I had no idea that the historical consensus was that we should have stayed in somalia. Is it really?
How do you feel about reagan’s action in beirut? Or selling weapons to iran because their friends had taken some hostages?
Or meekly letting china have our spy plane?
June 18th, 2006 at 1:14 pmYes, it is easy for the politicians back in the White House to say “stay the courseâ€, but that’s what their job is to do. – Seixon
This assumes a course has actually been articulated. “We’ll stand down while they stand up” is a slogan, not a course of action.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:17 pmIgnore Seixon, he just makes crap up to get attention. And when you call him out on his utter lack of knowledge or facts, he’ll just start whining about how you’re trying to slander him. But he’ll do it in a really, really long diatribe filled iwth ad hominem attacks that he claims you started.
Says he’s NOT a conservative… too funny.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:20 pmCuster stayed the course until he looked like a pin cushion.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:22 pmBTW, can anyone who is criticizing murtha for wanting to cut and run give a quick summary of his proposal? Its trivial to find in his own words exactly what he proposes for iraq, and it sounds like you may be attacking a cartoon version of it instead of its actual substance.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:22 pmSeixon, were you in Somalia? Or Iraq? Or Beirut? Or anywhere except for Norway? Why do you live in Norway anyway? Are you a convicted felon?
June 18th, 2006 at 1:23 pmOnce upon a time, politics in America was actually a bit tame, then someone named Karl Rove happens along in Texas(of all places) and weird things start to happen. Watergate was a shameful event in our history and someone was held accountable and punished.Now,every type of shameful, criminal and despicable deed(including vile sexual deeds) and the party in power sticks out its chin, thumps its chest and dares the public to turn them away come election day. I don’t know about anyone else, but I intend to try and do just that when I get my chance on election day.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:24 pmSeixon – Yes, it is easy for the politicians back in the White House to say “stay the courseâ€, but that’s what their job is to do.
And when the course is wrong, and causes thousands of innocent people to die – stay the course because, “that’s what their job is to do.”
Staying the course, when the course is wrong is like being addicted to gambling. You keep feeding more money into the addiction, hoping against forelorn hope that the outcome will somehow be different, if only you make just one more bet, one more bet, one more bet, until, at last, all is lost.
Only, in this case, the gamble is with lives.
“How many deaths will it take ’till they learn
June 18th, 2006 at 1:30 pmThat too many people have died?” – Dylan
Before anyone starts making sti\upid acusations about Larry, you might want to check his Bio:
http://noquarter.typepad.com/about.html
He is eminently qualified to make the remarks he made, and to speak the truth. Because he can prove what he says, unlike the rightwing dimwits who love the trollops Coulter and Malkin. Thay are far worse at character assasination than Larry has ever been, or will be.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:35 pmI hope other Democrats can learn from Murtha’s example: to take a position, to speak plainly, to fight back when attacked. He’s doing a great job.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:42 pmRove is a souless pig.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:43 pmBefore anyone starts making sti\upid acusations about Larry, you might want to check his Bio:-Kryten42
Those are indeed impressive credentials, which makes it all the more surprising that he felt the need to comment on Karl’s mother’s suicide, and continually mention that Karl is fat. I’m sorry but very smart and qualified people saying very stupid things doesn’t impress anyone.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:44 pmComment by Seixon
When are you going to stop supporting the 911 terrorist nation of Saudi Arabia?
When are you going to demand YOU inept leader gets off his PNAC Iraq trip and get back to the business of 911?
YOU have no right to say ANYTHING about Iraq opponits until you are SERIOUS about a response to 911.
Until then this entire Iraq deal is a traitors benedict arnolds smoke screen to turn a blind eye to the Bush Family/PNAC/Oil Company relationship with the sponsors of 911 terror is Saudi Arabia.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:46 pmI agree with you, Kryten42, Larry Johnson is so well qualified it makes the head spin, and when he says something I listen. I hate Karl Rove as I have never hated any being on this earth, but Johnson’s remark about Rove’s mother was out of bounds. Johnson has handed the “right” ammunition to use against him every time he opens him mouth from now on, and they will use it. He should apologize immediately so that the “right” has trouble using his words against him.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:47 pmCorrection: Soulless pig
June 18th, 2006 at 1:47 pmIt’s refreshing to see an elected official act like one. I have a lot of respect for Murtha for standing up for the soldiers to an Administration that is not only unAmerican in character and action – but have already killed more people than the very terrorist they claim to be at war against.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:49 pmIt impresses me. It is about time that the dems started acting just like the republicans. The republicans have been making personal attacks on the dems for far too long. It cost Kerry support. Kerry sat back and had his reputation demolished. The next dem candidate must take a stand agianst these baseless atacks and use the same exact style that the republicans use.
Why?
Because it is what worls. The American people fall for this crap. We have got to start making the baseless attacks, instead of always defending against them.
Welcome to the new Karl Rove style politics.
The “We aren’t going to stoop to their level” argument is gone. We have got to start playing by the new rule book, not the old one. Or, we will never win back any branch.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:51 pm#11 and #37, Krysten
Here’s what can be done to Larry, using his own words, carefully selected from your link in #11:
“If you oppose invading Iran you hate freedom and are selling America’s freedom to an Islamic Adolf Hitler. This is no longer a matter of opinion, it is a documented record of fact. I for one am fed up with these tactics and will fight back. The time has come to say enough. This is a fight for the soul of this nation.”
So, now it appears as though Larry actually supports the Administration. Each one of those sentences has been copied verbatim. Do you see how easy it is to paint somebody in a false light? Rove is a master at this. And, now that he’s no longer under threat of indictment, he’s back, with a vengence.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:55 pmBecause it is what worls. The American people fall for this crap. We have got to start making the baseless attacks, instead of always defending against them.
Nonsense. Read the posts/comments following Larry’s post where he comments on Rove’s suicide. The majority think he crossed a line, and needlessly so. I don’t buy for a second that the majority of the American people will stand and applaud when someone suggests that Rove’s mother killed herself because she realized how shameless Rove was. Frankly, there are much more clever ways to point out that Rove has no business commenting on the Dems’ “cut and run” strategy – I thought Murtha struck the right balance. Mention that he makes these comments sitting on his but in DC in an air-conditioned office, but ultimately – focus on the issue at hand, not the personal stuff.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:57 pmHip,Hip Hooray for John Murtha! Someone who speaks in plain english with no mincing or parsing of his words. I am very happy that he spoke up against that fat piece of worthless human flesh that is Karl Rove.
As was mentioned in an earlier post I do hope the Democtrats learn from my hero John Murhta and learn to fight back just as fast and as furious as Rove and the rest of these right wing lackies can through it out.
The only thing that dissapoints me with Murtha words about Rove is that it took almost a week for him to come out fighting. Any Democrat who is slandered by these people need to come out swinging and respond to an attack right after it happens.
If Kerry would have done that when he was swiftboated by Rove and his lackies this country might not be in the sorry state of affairs that Bushco has gotten us into.
June 18th, 2006 at 1:59 pmA DESERTER’S STORY
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE HORRORS OF IRAQ BECOME TOO MUCH FOR A SOLDIER TO BEAR? BY NEIL MACKAY
MORE than 6000 men and women have deserted from the US army since the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. In the British forces, the figure stands at around 1000. The soldiers are leaving because they are sickened by the bloodshed in Iraq; because they believe the war is illegal; because they are on the verge of nervous breakdown; and because they are having to buy their own boots or are not being given enough food and water. Labour MP John McDonnell says that troops are now “questioning the morality and legality of the occupationâ€.
In Britain, deserters rarely – if ever – publicly explain why they have refused to fight. In the US, however, it’s a different story.
Some 25 GIs have applied for refugee status in Canada since the invasion of Iraq. At least 200 others are just living quietly , assisted by organisations such as War Resisters, and hoping that the US will forget all about them. Many of the Canadians helping them were once US citizens themselves. More than 30 years ago, they fled north, taking Canadian citizenship to escape being drafted to Vietnam.
Many of these deserters are suffering from serious mental health problems, such as post-traumatic stress disorder brought on by prolonged exposure to the horrors of war. Britain’s Ministry of Defence recently revealed that in 2005, around 60 soldiers a month were found to be suffering from mental health problems. The total number of cases, 727, equates to almost 10% of the entire British military presence in Iraq – and 66 were so badly affected that they had to be airlifted home. So far around 2500 US and 113 British soldiers have died in Iraq.
I think Murtha is Right time to leave
June 18th, 2006 at 2:02 pmExcellent post Tobey… Of course they won’t show this kind of information on the local news channel… But I wonder if it would do good to email it to the real journalists – Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert? I plan to email it to everyone I know. Thanks
June 18th, 2006 at 2:11 pmTobey,
Any stats on how this compares to Vietnam or any other wars?
June 18th, 2006 at 2:14 pm50# Full link here http://www.sundayherald.com/56277
June 18th, 2006 at 2:15 pmMighty damn brave of Rove to shout ’stay the course’ from the safety of the White House. He’s nothing but another cowardly draft-dodging chickenhawk!
June 18th, 2006 at 2:15 pmChris Green,
I had no idea that the historical consensus was that we should have stayed in somalia. Is it really?
Well, Osama bin Laden’s opinion seems to be that it was quite fun for Clinton to do what he did. Which is why I fail to see the genius of holding it up as some kind of standard to be followed according to Murtha. Yeah, let’s let the terrorists beat us and run home! Good model!
How do you feel about reagan’s action in beirut? Or selling weapons to iran because their friends had taken some hostages?
To be quite honest, I have no clue about Reagan and Beirut, which thus caused me to not say anything about it since I’m not in the business of talking about things I have no clue about.
unbelievable,
Ignore Seixon, he just makes crap up to get attention. And when you call him out on his utter lack of knowledge or facts, he’ll just start whining about how you’re trying to slander him.
You see? This is what you do. What I say doesn’t matter, you pop up trying to spite me from the start. I showed that you lied and lied about not being provided links. Now you’re just here to spread filth about me again. How pathetic.
It’s refreshing to see an elected official act like one. I have a lot of respect for Murtha for standing up for the soldiers to an Administration that is not only unAmerican in character and action – but have already killed more people than the very terrorist they claim to be at war against.
I hesitate to call anyone a terrorist-sympathizer, but I must ask: wasn’t it terrorists and insurgents that killed our soldiers? Laying the blame on the Bush administration seems to be comforting the enemy who is actually the one responsible for their deaths.
Zookeeper,
Seixon, were you in Somalia? Or Iraq? Or Beirut? Or anywhere except for Norway? Why do you live in Norway anyway? Are you a convicted felon?
So, once again, who are the ones who start right off with ad hominem? You guys are dispicable.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:22 pm#54 – Seixon,
I see that you responded to almost everyone, except to my comment (#30). Can you tell us what Bush’s “course” is beyond “we’ll stand down while the Iraqis stand up”???
June 18th, 2006 at 2:26 pmSo, once again, who are the ones who start right off with ad hominem? You guys are dispicable.
Comment by Seixon
Funny, oh despicable one. But you didn’t answer my question…
June 18th, 2006 at 2:27 pmThere are two things Americans on the left have to catch up on and learn about:
1. The art of disinformation and how it is being used on us in the present day
2. Decode Rove’s thinking in general
We do that, we’re on our way back to health as a nation
June 18th, 2006 at 2:28 pmYou see? This is what you do. What I say doesn’t matter, you pop up trying to spite me from the start. I showed that you lied and lied about not being provided links. Now you’re just here to spread filth about me again. How pathetic.
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 2:22 pm
Seixon you delusional little fool. Not only did you NOT show that I lied, but I showed that you did – repeatedly – to avoid proving anything. You know, for all the time yo spend ‘defending’ your honor, you could actually educate yourself on something besides beer flavors.
You talk just because you like to hear youself talk. That’s a fact. I only posted facts in my statement, thinking Chris would like to know what he’s getting into – a pointless battle with an ignorant moron who doesn’t ever know what he’s talking about. You just blather endlessly and never actually say anything. Typical conservative trick. And yes, you are a conservative. I’m getting close to calling you a neo-con you keep lying like one.
And, for the record, if you were so innocent you wouldn’t have gotten booted from two liberal blogs including KOS…
June 18th, 2006 at 2:29 pmJohn Murtha is giving a lesson to all Dems in how to deal with the phony story line the Rovian Repugs are telling. Just explode it! Rip it to shreds. Don’t respond, just blow it out of the water.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:30 pmHas Murtha lost his marbles?
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
As usual Seixon, you lobbed the first grenade from your first sentance all the way to your last… But, go ahead and cry about it. Probably why you’re really in Norway… wanted to avoid the draft if your conservative party had instituted one…
Based on Tobey’s article, it sounds like they could use some new soldiers to help out. Why don’t you put your big butt where your big mouth is? Sign up now and show John Murtha what you’re talking about…
June 18th, 2006 at 2:33 pm>Well, Osama bin Laden’s opinion seems to be that it was quite fun for Clinton to do what >he did. Which is why I fail to see the genius of holding it up as some kind of standard to be >followed according to Murtha. Yeah, let’s let the terrorists beat us and run home! Good >model!
Thats why I cited it and the only example I could come up with of a democrat kind of cutting and running. BUt I had no idea the republican stance was that we shoudl have stayed – I can’t find any evidence of this alleged republican position.
>How do you feel about reagan’s action in beirut? Or selling weapons to iran because their >friends had taken some hostages?
>
>To be quite honest, I have no clue about Reagan and Beirut, which thus caused me to not >say anything about it since I’m not in the business of talking about things I have no clue >about.
How about doing a quick google search and a little reading and then replying what you think about it now?
June 18th, 2006 at 2:36 pmAnd selling weapons to iran because their terrorist allies had some hostages of ours? How about that?
You also didn’t address “meekly letting china have our spy plane”.
Good on him. It’s nice to see that Murtha’s not backing off these chickenhawks and fading in the background like so many other Democrats do when they get their own 15 minutes. I’m just surprised that I never got Karl in my Assclowns of the Week. Speaking of which…
Assclowns of the Week is back with the Sliders Edition. On the spit this week:
Gen. Richard Formica (10), doesn’t think murder is necessarily a criminal act.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:37 pmMissouri state Communications Director Spence Jackson (9), for aiding the communication in the Show Me state by banning a blogger from a bill signing.
Michelle Malkin (8), for passing up a legitimate dig in favor of a made-up “scandalâ€.
Dick Cheney (7), for multi-tasking by starting and coordinating an illegal war while making several million quick bucks in the process and for remaining optimistic about the GOP’s chances this Nov.
George Bush (6, 4, 2), for mocking the blind, blindsiding the Iraqi PM and remaining willfully blind to the PM’s decision to offer amnesty to insurgents who’ve killed US troops.
Dennis Hastert (5,) for resurrecting the pummeled remains of 9/11 victims for partisan gain.
Tony Snow (3,) for putting the number 2500 in its proper perspective and
Jane Hamsher (1), for eating our own in a manner that would do the GOP proud.
It’s just as easy for ‘Cut-and-Run’ Murtha to call for surrender from his air conditioned office, or to pronounce Marines guilty of crimes before the investigation is concluded from his air conditiioned office. He is a disgrace.
Comment by BigWussy — June 18, 2006 @ 12:43 pm
Uh, last time I checked Murtha served his country in combat, was bloodied for his country, and now, because he doesn’t agree with a group of right wing sissies who never saw a day of combat in their lives, now you label him a disgrace?
Cool.
Forget a mans service, forget Max Clelland losing his limbs for his country, anyone who disagrees with a Cocaine addicted AWOL from the National Guard spoiled rich boy President, and his fat, ivy league never served a day in uniform bigmouthed political consultant, is a traitor right?
Oh yea, you’re a real peice of work.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:42 pmGen. Richard Formica (10), doesn’t think murder is necessarily a criminal act.
Comment by jurassicpork
Must have a dead hooker in his trunk — again.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pmNice to see someone with a spine stand up to the incompetence and lies of the Bush administration.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:46 pmDoes anyone get the feeling that Rove and most of the other rethuglican loud mouths had thier asses kicked on a daily basis during childhood? It would explain alot.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:47 pmI see the usual right-wing tools are here defending Herr Rove’s statements and vilifying Murtha’s. Typical of a bunch of wannabe badasses chickenhawk Rethuglicans. Why is it that they save the most scorn for Democratic military veterans? “Support the troops!” “Support the troops!” “Unless they’re Democrats, then we’ll slander ‘em.” Sheesh.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:49 pmZookeeper,
No, I won’t answer “how often did you beat your wife?†type of filth. Stop trolling.
Comment by Seixon
Our first exchange, I’m touched that you remember. *sniff*
June 18th, 2006 at 2:50 pmActually, I asked you if you had stopped beating your wife, but close enough.
I’ll let you go now, you probably have to check in with your probation officer…
Good to remember two points:
1. Bush has said that he expects to dump the Iraq problem in the next president’s lap to solve. That means that all these deaths each day, week, month are without even a HOPE that the US will actually win in Iraq. And that’s BUSH talking.
2. The Bush admin continues to deceive about intentions on permanent bases in Iraq. See the quotes here, esp., the LAST one.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:51 pmAsk the troops before the politicians
The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,†while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed.â€
Different branches had quite different sentiments on the question, the poll shows. While 89% of reserves and 82% of those in the National Guard said the U.S. should leave Iraq within a year, 58% of Marines think so. Seven in ten of those in the regular Army thought the U.S. should leave Iraq in the next year. Moreover, about three-quarters of those in National Guard and Reserve units favor withdrawal within six months, just 15% of Marines felt that way. About half of those in the regular Army favored withdrawal from Iraq in the next six months.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:52 pmSeixon,
Why don’t you just repond with teh word “Wahhhh”. At least it would be the only honest thing out of your entire rant above.
You are twisting the situation to make it look like you were right when the exact opposite happened. You claimed that solar warming was responsible for global warming when the sun is not, in the big picture, warming. It is shrinking. Apparently everyone but you seems to be able to grasp that basic fact.
Your NASA article debunked you. And your weatherman and geologist aren’t climate experts – so how exactly does that trumph hundreds of climate and astromony (not astrology you silly boy) experts? It doesn’t. Yet that is your case. Boiled down your hypothesis is junk science with no basis anywhere near reality. Like everything else you spout.
So, you managed to completely ignore my suggestion that you go enlist in the war in Iraq and put your neocon ideals to the test…
June 18th, 2006 at 2:52 pmStaying the course is a strategy and is a course of action. Responding to what is happening in the field is what you should do, not doing whatever the hell you feel like. For Iraq to be successful, we have to wait until the Iraqis are able to take care of security without us there to help. If you think staying the course isn’t a strategy, then I’ll love to hear your opinion on deployments in Germany, Japan, and South Korea. – Comment by Seixon
I’m saying there needs to be much more to “the course” than just saying we’re going to stay it. That’s why I asked if you could tell me if there was anything more concrete to it than “we’ll stand down while they stand up.” I don’t think there is, which is a large reason why the troops don’t have a good handle on what the overall day-to-day mission is. A concrete set of goals have not been laid out.
June 18th, 2006 at 2:55 pmThe forces do seem to be responding to things on a day-to-day basis as opposed to following a real plan, and that’s a serious problem. It will lead to us staying there indefinitely, which is not in anyone’s interests.
Here’s the story on Roves glorious military career,go to:
June 18th, 2006 at 2:58 pmtalkleft.com/new_archieves/007928.htlm
That should answer any questions about Roves’ fat backside!
Murtha’s shown the way.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:00 pmNow other Democrats must organize to fight back in the same way but to expand the ridicule to include the likes of Hasert, Boehner, Blunt, Frist, McConnell, Sessions, Cheney, Bush—all of the big, fancing-talking cowards who wouldn’t fight when the country begged them to and who must now, finally, have to pay for it.
>Why? What does it matter? If you think Reagan’s Beirut strategy was also a bad idea, how does that help Murtha at all?
This discussion is about rove calling democrats cut-and-runners, particularly murtha. There’s a much better history of republicans cut-and-running, and precious few examples (apparently, only somalia, which I had no idea rove was against our withdrawal from) from democrats.
Could you please summarize your objections to the 4 simple points of murtha’s iraq proposal without either an ad-hominem attack on him, or without attacking some other made-up proposal that you ascribe to him?
June 18th, 2006 at 3:02 pmMake that ‘and outed Joe Wilson’s wife’.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:04 pm“Yeah, a study on solar activity and cosmic flux has nothing to do with the Sun’s role in warming. Nope, not at all! LOL. Commenty by Seixonâ€
You’re trying to make a report on the daily fluxuation in electromagnetic radiation of solar flares responsible for the long-term affects of Global Warming.
Something that varies slightly, which does not produce heat, cannot be responsible for a prolonged and steady upward clime in temperature.
It’s an absurd claim you’ve made and you can’t even get past your own ego to see it.
The sun is both cooling and shrinking on a daily basis over the course of billions of years. Not the reverse. Go borrow a grade school textbook and read all about it for yourself at your own level. Apparently you don’t understand it at a level geared toward 15-16 year olds…
June 18th, 2006 at 3:12 pmTell me, somebody, two things:
1) Why, if it’s inappropriate to establish a timetable because somehow this isn’t supporting our troops, it’s also inappropriate to ask the Iraqi government for a timetable for expressing its sovereignty by providing security for Iraq? Without our assistance. That way, everybody wins, right? The Iraqis are secure, Iraqis are in complete charge of their own markets and resources, running their own foreign policy, and no American troops are in the country. They’re standing up on schedule while we stand down on schedule. Let’s have a Congressional resolution demanding that the elected government of Iraqi provide a timetable!
Well, maybe that’s a problem. Maybe we want American troops in the country. Maybe we’d rather not have the Iraqis running their own foreign policy, or pursuing a course with their resources that we don’t find favorable.
2) Why, after five years of seeing things turn out entirely different than predicted by the Bush Administration, the Republicans’ Party, and its acolytes (see trolls above) we don’t just point to their repeated inability to link the wrong, damaging, expensive, counterproductive results with their actions and say, “Why should we listen to a word that falls out of you mouth?”
June 18th, 2006 at 3:16 pmMurtha’s segment was surrounded by wall to wall lying. They even aired an anti net neutrality ad. Transcript.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:18 pmChris Green,
Could you please summarize your objections to the 4 simple points of murtha’s iraq proposal without either an ad-hominem attack on him, or without attacking some other made-up proposal that you ascribe to him?
So you seriously think that Murtha was smart in using Somalia as an example to follow? If not, what was wrong about my statement that he’s lost his marbles?
What 4 simple points? Murtha wants to leave Iraq by the end of the year. Simple. That would be just like Somalia and all other failures, where we would leave a nascent democracy to be terrorized by al Qaeda resulting in a new Taliban-like Afghanistan.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:27 pmunbelievable,
It’s an absurd claim you’ve made and you can’t even get past your own ego to see it.
An absurd claim that scientists are actually citing and looking into. Interesting. Here I will cite again from my actual scientific study that you still can’t bother with evaluating since you keep pretending the link doesn’t work:
Wow so the very issue I have brought up is “intensely debated” by the climate scientists. Yet here you are telling me I am lying and that this issue is bogus. Who am I to believe, a scientific study that cites other studies, or… you?
Hmmm.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:31 pmThat would be just like Somalia and all other failures, where we would leave a nascent democracy to be terrorized by al Qaeda resulting in a new Taliban-like Afghanistan.-Comment by Seixon
And how’s that different from the current state of Afghanistan, exactly? Seems to me we haven’t exactly left that country in great condition now, have we?
June 18th, 2006 at 3:31 pmWow so the very issue I have brought up is “intensely debated†by the climate scientists. Yet here you are telling me I am lying and that this issue is bogus. Who am I to believe, a scientific study that cites other studies, or… you?
Hmmm.
Comment by Seixon
The scientific community has done the field work. You have not. The scientistific community has given its verdict.
You are wrong.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:33 pmIt’s unfortunate that these exchanges focus on ‘cutting/running’ versus ’staying the course’, and it illustrates well that the Repugs have framed the discussion to their advantage.
We have no option but to change course because Bush’s course is effectively taking us over a cliff… but ‘change course’ does not equal ‘cutting/running’. It’s a shame we can’t make that point.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:34 pmDrSinker,
And how’s that different from the current state of Afghanistan, exactly? Seems to me we haven’t exactly left that country in great condition now, have we?
Ah, so al Qaeda is running terrorist training camps and the current administration in Afghanistan is roping George Bush along pretending like they are going to give up Osama bin Laden whom they are protecting? Sure doesn’t sound like the same thing to me… Oh, and FYI, we haven’t “left” Afghanistan yet, so you might want to correct your statement.
Gerald Gibson,
The scientific community has done the field work. You have not. The scientistific community has given its verdict.
And who are you? Spokesman for every scientist in the world? What a crock. I cited a scientific study done in 2004 about this “intensely debated” issue, and now you are pretending that they’ve already come to a conclusion about it. Where’s the press release from All the Scientists in the World Foundation saying this? Oh, Al Gore’s new movie. Right. He speaks for all scientists. Yup. (Well except for all of the ones who had been quoted in the paper having said that he made errors and misleads people with his movie…. Cough.)
June 18th, 2006 at 3:40 pmAh, so al Qaeda is running terrorist training camps and the current administration in Afghanistan is roping George Bush along pretending like they are going to give up Osama bin Laden whom they are protecting? Sure doesn’t sound like the same thing to me… Oh, and FYI, we haven’t “left†Afghanistan yet, so you might want to correct your statement.-Seixon
You’re right, we haven’t left Afghanistan, and it’s a mess. If Afghanistan is a wreck, and it’s a much smaller country than Iraq, how can we ever hope that the current admin can be trusted to get it right in Iraq?!?!
June 18th, 2006 at 3:44 pmHmmmmm. I don’t ever remember learning how to “stay the course” in Basic Training or AIT or in any other susequent training after permanent duty assignment. Nope, we learned to adapt and change with the on going situation.
Staying the course only means that Bush and friends can’t adapt to the current situation.
You would know that if you served a little time in the military.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:46 pmOne of the great lessons of WWII was the “stay the course” inflexibility of the Nazis versus the “delegated responsibilities” and “can do” attitude of the Americans. On DDay while Hitler remained in his stupor the Nazis soldiers “stayed the course” waiting for victory to just make itself happen.
The Americans on the other hand laid out plans as best they could and then readjusted them from the top all the way down to the foot soldier on the fly as neccessary to accomidate new situations they were confronted with.
Guess who won DDay? And why?
Fantasizing, dreaming, hoping, praying, faith in an outcome is no way to achieve victory. The republicans put a fool in charge of the military who learned all the wrong lessons from history and now we ALL walk the path of a fool. With the soldier out front…
June 18th, 2006 at 3:47 pmGerald Gibson,
The scientific community has done the field work. You have not. The scientistific community has given its verdict.
And who are you? Spokesman for every scientist in the world? What a crock. I cited a scientific study done in 2004 about this “intensely debated†issue, and now you are pretending that they’ve already come to a conclusion about it. Where’s the press release from All the Scientists in the World Foundation saying this? Oh, Al Gore’s new movie. Right. He speaks for all scientists. Yup. (Well except for all of the ones who had been quoted in the paper having said that he made errors and misleads people with his movie…. Cough.)
Comment by Seixon
Why do you come to this site if you learn NOTHING from what is printed?
There is no scientific debate about whether human activity is contributing to global warming. Science Magazine analyzed 928 peer-reviewed scientific papers on global warming published between 1993 and 2003. Not a single one challenged the scientific consensus the earth’s temperature is rising due to human activity. In 2002, the Bush administration’s EPA concluded that global warming the the last 20 years was “due mostly to human activity.â€
June 18th, 2006 at 3:49 pmSeixon,
From the “real scientists” over at realclimate:
There is little evidence for a connection between solar activity (as inferred from trends in galactic cosmic rays) and recent global warming.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=42
June 18th, 2006 at 3:49 pmDrSinker,
You’re right, we haven’t left Afghanistan, and it’s a mess. If Afghanistan is a wreck, and it’s a much smaller country than Iraq, how can we ever hope that the current admin can be trusted to get it right in Iraq?!?!
It’s a mess? According to who? There’s violence there like in Iraq, but painting it completely black doesn’t sound especially reflected to me. Whether or not you trust Bush to get it right in Iraq doesn’t mean you should advocate leaving Iraq altogether and inevitably leaving it a lot bigger mess than it is now.
Spudge,
Hmmmmm. I don’t ever remember learning how to “stay the course†in Basic Training or AIT or in any other susequent training after permanent duty assignment. Nope, we learned to adapt and change with the on going situation.
You’ve just summarized what staying the course is, goomba.
You would know that if you served a little time in the military.
Apparently you can’t see that you are describing the same thing as staying the course. I’m sorry the military wasn’t able to provide you with critical reading and logic skills.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:52 pmGerald,
There is no scientific debate about whether human activity is contributing to global warming. Science Magazine analyzed 928 peer-reviewed scientific papers on global warming published between 1993 and 2003. Not a single one challenged the scientific consensus the earth’s temperature is rising due to human activity. In 2002, the Bush administration’s EPA concluded that global warming the the last 20 years was “due mostly to human activity.â€
Oh, I’m sure CO2 emissions contribute to global warming, but how much? That factoid that TP keeps running has already been discredited because the author of it later had to correct it and also it was shown that it was a selective way of searching through the articles. Not only that, it is a factoid and meaningless. How does one go about challenging a consensus that doesn’t exist? You can’t. There is no “consensus” on the issue, and many, many scientists have said as much in various newspaper articles in relation to Al Gore’s new film. Even scientists that are friendly towards Gore.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:55 pmDrSinker,
From the “real scientists†over at realclimate:
There is little evidence for a connection between solar activity (as inferred from trends in galactic cosmic rays) and recent global warming.
I see. So the word of a few self-promoting global warming fanatic scientists are the Oracle while the scientists that I cited, in a study on solar activity, said that there is evidence. Even Realclimate admits that there is “little evidence”, meaning that there is some.
I posted an entire study into the issue, and instead of that, you believe blanket statements from obviously partisan sources on the issue. What a hoot.
June 18th, 2006 at 3:58 pmcongratulations! another hijacked thread…
June 18th, 2006 at 3:58 pmComment by Seixon
And the pope said the world was flat beyond a doubt and had the scientists condemed … no I think I will stick with the scientists… unless you can back up your ASSERTIONS with FACTS…links…. SOMETHING…. you look like a fool wasting my time here.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:00 pmIt’s a mess? According to who? -Seixon
Just about anyone who’s there, if you’re paying attention: from an article in Newsday this week:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-wotali0618,0,3588445.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
Heckofa job, as some would say.
Whether or not you trust Bush to get it right in Iraq doesn’t mean you should advocate leaving Iraq altogether and inevitably leaving it a lot bigger mess than it is now.-Seixon
I’m not advocating that, and neither is Murtha if you paid attention to what he said. Nice attempt at a straw man, goomba.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:02 pmI posted an entire study into the issue, and instead of that, you believe blanket statements from obviously partisan sources on the issue. What a hoot.
Comment by Seixon
You are cherry picking articles to try to make it look like you have a point. That is not how science works. A global modal of all inputs and outputs is what scientists look at when coming to a conclusion. This is not what you are doing. It is like you are trying to say that because a scientist has an article showing that the sun is warm that this proves your case…. Science doesnt work that way.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:03 pmI watched the “debates” on C-Span – quick on his feet, persuasive in his tone, strident when necessary – I see Mutiny Murtha having quite a career on Air America if he ever retires. (And before progs become unglued over Murtha’s nickname, just remember when you cite his brilliant war record that General Benedict Arnold had been a war hero, too….)
June 18th, 2006 at 4:05 pmI watched the “debates†on C-Span – quick on his feet, persuasive in his tone, strident when necessary – I see Mutiny Murtha having quite a career on Air America if he ever retires. (And before progs become unglued over Murtha’s nickname, just remember when you cite his brilliant war record that General Benedict Arnold had been a war hero, too….)
Comment by mighty aphrodite
As soon as you can figure out how to attack the people that attacked America on 911 get back with us on your authority on military wisdom and King loving conservative loyalist benedict arnolds such as yourself.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:08 pmGerald,
And the pope said the world was flat beyond a doubt and had the scientists condemed … no I think I will stick with the scientists… unless you can back up your ASSERTIONS with FACTS…links…. SOMETHING…. you look like a fool wasting my time here.
You’re unhinged. I already gave you facts that backed up what I said, from a science study done by Finnish scientists in 2004. You balked at it and pretended that it was no longer debated, by providing no evidence what so ever. Obviously you chose this direction because you could not back up your falsehoods.
DrSinker,
Afghanistan is a democracy now without the Taliban ruling everyone with arcane religious rules. There is still a security problem, one that a UN and NATO force is working together on.
Heckofa job, as some would say.
Yeah, tell that to EVERYONE involved in the mission, which isn’t just the Bush administration. It’s beyond cliche to blame Bush for everything he remotely has anything to do with.
I’m not advocating that, and neither is Murtha if you paid attention to what he said. Nice attempt at a straw man, goomba.
Actually, he is. Murtha is advocating pulling all troops out of Iraq by the end of the year. If that’s not the position, please give what you think it is, and you might want to back that up with Murtha’s own words.
It’s full withdrawal. That was Murtha’s plan back 6 months ago, and it’s the same now.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:08 pmSome context to Seixon’s comment on consensus:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=86
I’m not going to bother arguing with him because we already did in previous threads:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/11/where-theres-a-will/
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/10/al-got-the-science-right
June 18th, 2006 at 4:10 pmYou’re unhinged. I already gave you facts that backed up what I said, from a science study done by Finnish scientists in 2004. You balked at it and pretended that it was no longer debated, by providing no evidence what so ever. Obviously you chose this direction because you could not back up your falsehoods.
Comment by Seixon
The evidence I refer you to is thousands of scientists … hundreds of studies …. you provide one cherry picked study that does not back up your claim… it only shows ONE of many inputs and outputs into the problem.
Exactly what do you do for a living? It sure cannot be anything like engineering or science… because you obviously dont know how to reason your way through a complex problem.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:11 pmGerald,
You are cherry picking articles to try to make it look like you have a point. That is not how science works. A global modal of all inputs and outputs is what scientists look at when coming to a conclusion. This is not what you are doing. It is like you are trying to say that because a scientist has an article showing that the sun is warm that this proves your case…. Science doesnt work that way.
Yet another strawman. I never said it proves that the Sun is responsible for all the warming. I simply pointed out, that contrary to unbelievable’s claims, that the Sun’s contribution to global warming IS an issue that is widely debated within the scientific community. You have now pretended that I brought up the article for an entirely different reason.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:12 pmActually, he is. Murtha is advocating pulling all troops out of Iraq by the end of the year. If that’s not the position, please give what you think it is, and you might want to back that up with Murtha’s own words.
It’s full withdrawal. That was Murtha’s plan back 6 months ago, and it’s the same now.
Comment by Seixon
Murtha is saying nothing more than what many regular everyday REPUBLICANS have said… we should have taken out Saddam then got the hell out of those peoples country….
Not too hard to understand for you is it?
Not that I agree with him on the getting Saddam part… at least not until we have addressed the 911 attacks first.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:14 pmRove’s slogan chiding Democrats with “cut and run” has no basis in fact.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:14 pmIt’s a catchy slogan that has picked up traction among the Fox viewers and others in the media as well, but it means nothing. It is not true.
Bush and Rove have no right to wage the oedipal relationship between Bush II and Bush I on the backs of the rest of America; as Bush believes his father “cut and ran” in Desert Storm. He says the words, because he knows people don’t know or recall history that would prove his lies.
What is a particular souce of disgust is that he and all of Bush&Co have no military experience, much less in battle, yet the lemmings believe their lying slogans, and even more distressing, the media repeats it, just in case someone didn’t hear it the first hundred times.
The Republicans’ Party has been continually wrong about where “the course” was taking us, and how long the voyage would last, how rough the seas would be, and how much the trip would cost.
Once again, why are we paying attention to these people? Why are we not asking them why we should bother taking seriously a single word they say?
June 18th, 2006 at 4:16 pmMr. Gibson – Being half Irish, my family has no great love for the English in history. So don’t try hanging a royalist association or Murtha/Arnold moniker on ME….
June 18th, 2006 at 4:19 pmHappy Father’s Day!
Once again, why are we paying attention to these people? Why are we not asking them why we should bother taking seriously a single word they say?
Comment by Brian C.B
Because the “leaders” of the “opposition” party are mostly subserviant. If they would do as you suggest then things would change… but the silence of the democrats and the half hearted support/opposition leaves the right looking like they MIGHT have a point when this is nothing more than illegal greedy aggression backed up with giving Vietnam another shot … because one Vietnam wasnt enough…
How many times does it take at being humiliated before you learn that you ONLY defeat people in their own homeland one way… genocide (aka WWII). There are FAR more people in Iraq today that would love to kill some Americans than there was before… and that increases each time we kill someones family member. That didnt matter in WWII .. well because we pretty much fire bombed everybody we could to death. THAT is how you do it… other than that you DONT do it at all. And I would like the see the right try to justify WWII style all out killing on Iraq….
June 18th, 2006 at 4:22 pmI think Seixon’s appeal to the authority of Norwegian “Meteorologists and Astrologers” on climate change were particularly persuasive:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/10/al-got-the-science-right
I think Seixon, being the international man of mystery that he is, hangs out with Norwegian “Meteorologists and Astrologers” all the time, that’s why he knows so much.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:23 pmAfghanistan is a democracy now without the Taliban ruling everyone with arcane religious rules. -Seixon
You can’t be serious. Did you completely miss the story of the man who was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity? Oh yeah, Afghanistan’s a great democracy with a small security problem if we believe you. They’re not producing heroin on a massive scale or anything either.
You’re high on some kind of special cool aid there Seixon. By the way, it must be sheer agony for you to live in Norway.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:24 pmCan you describe the four points in murtha’s iraq proposal and your objections to them? Each is one sentance long, and its trivial to find the actual proposal on the internet. Surely you aren’t attacking his proposal without reading it, when its easy to find, and was widely reported in the press, are you?
>What 4 simple points? Murtha wants to leave Iraq by the end of the year.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:24 pmMr. Gibson – Being half Irish, my family has no great love for the English in history. So don’t try hanging a royalist association or Murtha/Arnold moniker on ME….
Happy Father’s Day!
Comment by mighty aphrodite
I dont have to “hang” anything …Your actions speak volumes… and your ancestry means nothing.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:24 pmSo what if American troops suddenly left Iraq? What would be the messy consequences that Republicans are so afraid of?
On the other hand, what if the troops stay another three years, then leave? Would consequences be essentially the same? Would a military coup take place a few weeks after the troops were gone with Iraq being right back where it was in 2003?
Nothing would have changed, except increased American casualties, the flight of a trillion or so dollars and Bush going into the record books as a tainted troublemaker who, with his eyes closed and thinking the dice were loaded, shot it all on one roll and lost it all.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:26 pmDrSinker,
You can’t be serious. Did you completely miss the story of the man who was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity? Oh yeah, Afghanistan’s a great democracy with a small security problem if we believe you. They’re not producing heroin on a massive scale or anything either.
You’re high on some kind of special cool aid there Seixon. By the way, it must be sheer agony for you to live in Norway.
It’s still much better than it was under the Taliban, can’t you just bite your lip and admit it? I never said it was perfect. They are producing heroin on a massive scale because that’s an easy way for them to make money. Obviously the world community needs to help out so that they can find other ways to live a life that is comfortable enough. Or I guess we could reinstate the policies of the Taliban and kill everyone growing poppies. Would that be more of a democracy ya think?
It’s lovely here in Norway. Why else would I have stayed here for as long as I have? Try checking your biased assumptions at the door.
Chris Green,
His 4-point plan:
In other words, move all our troops out of Iraq and leave some of them in Kuwait, and Afghanistan. How is that not cutting and running from Iraq? It’s full withdrawal with one pound of icing on top to mask it as something else.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:32 pmIn other words, move all our troops out of Iraq and leave some of them in Kuwait, and Afghanistan. How is that not cutting and running from Iraq? It’s full withdrawal with one pound of icing on top to mask it as something else.
Comment by Seixon
Are you saying that NO army has every won by moving their forces into a different position?
June 18th, 2006 at 4:34 pmWow, the 29% are “staying the course”, here, which involves comparing a 37-year Marine vet Congressman to Benedict Arnold, quoting oil-company-sponsored “scientists”, and whining about Larry Johnson’s accurate take on Rove’s evil driving his mother to suicide. Facts have a liberal bias, 29 percenters, and all of your empty words haven’t challenged a single fact. Live by the Hate, die by the Hate, if we’re lucky.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:36 pmGerald – You’re right (pun intended!!) I realize how foolish you were to attack ME when I was criticizing Mutiny Murtha – but then figured your NON-PARALLEL assertion was not due to a mean, lowdown nature. Some folks just don’t know any better and do the best they can with what they have…..my condolences…..
June 18th, 2006 at 4:36 pmGerald – You’re right (pun intended!!) I realize how foolish you were to attack ME when I was criticizing Mutiny Murtha – but then figured your NON-PARALLEL assertion was not due to a mean, lowdown nature. Some folks just don’t know any better and do the best they can with what they have…..my condolences…..
Comment by mighty aphrodite
The Saudis sure must like friends like you.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:38 pmSeixon, you should move to Afghanistan, it’s real nice there. You are an idiot.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:39 pmGerald,
Are you saying that NO army has every won by moving their forces into a different position?
You can’t win a battle you’re not present for… ;) It’s not a “different” position, it’s a position consisting of leaving the battlefield. I’d love to have seen the Allied Forces take Germany without actually being in Germany.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:40 pmMurtha on Rove…
From Think Progress:ROVE (TAPE): Like too many Democrats, it strikes me they are ready to give the green light to go to war, but when it gets tough and when it gets difficult, they fall back on that party’s old…
June 18th, 2006 at 4:42 pmFrank Murtha = Patriotic American Fighting Man
June 18th, 2006 at 4:42 pmKarl Rove= Pathetic Chickenhawk Traitor
Maybe Rove’s mother was partaling of asymetrical warfare agains Karl. Mutiny Murtha’s years in combat and in the House sure do show what a traitor he is. I’m so glad that all of the righties on the site have their laptops with them in Iraq and can take a few minutes from defending our freedom to slag a decorated combat veteran.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:42 pmTo understand global warming, take two large jars and line the screw top of each on with blue construction paper. Blow up a blue balloon and stuff it into one of the jars and let it sit in the freezer for 15 minutes. Put a room temperature type thermometer in each jar. Seal the jar without the balloon. Pop (actually, it should be somewhat limp at this point) the balloon and quickly seal the second jar. Place the two jars in a dark closet and let their temperature stabilize ( both thermometers should read the same). Invert both bottles and shine a desk lamp into each, being sure that each bottle is in a similar arc of illumination. After about two or three hours, the thermometer in the jar with the balloon should read about 1 to 3 degrees higher then the one without. To study the effects of methane, simply fart into a jar and quickly seal it (I have yet to determine how to use a balloon in this phase of the experiment, suggestions?)
June 18th, 2006 at 4:44 pmronjazz,
Seixon, you should move to Afghanistan, it’s real nice there. You are an idiot.
You also part of the Black/White Club? I guess you are. I said it’s better than it was under the Taliban, I didn’t say it was Hawaii.
You might want to update your “29%” gig since it is now currently inaccurate. I wonder if you think that gay marriage is a crock because only about 30% of Americans agree with it….. I doubt it!
June 18th, 2006 at 4:44 pmIRAQ IS NOT 911….
Why dont we “redeploy” to Saudi Arabia? Then maybe we WILL win…
I’d love to have seen the Allied Forces take Germany without actually being in Germany.
Comment by Seixon
That is EXACTLY what you idiots are doing in Iraq…. Saudi Arabia attacks us and you attack Iraq????
That is like FDR attacking Spain. You are losers… this is all being recorded for history and the future generations are not going to be able to be brainwashed because this will all be behind them… that will leave just history. The the history clearly shows that when America was attacked the republicans didnt attack back because their dear leader was in bed financially with the attackers and so was all his buddies and so America attacked a different unrelated country instead.
Cowards
June 18th, 2006 at 4:45 pmIdiots
Short-sighted Fools
Traitors
Seixon, you asshole, there is no battlefield in Iraq. Your ignorance is exceeded by your ignorance. And George W. Chickenshit Bush created the enemy in Iraq, by sending 150,000 targets there for no reason except to try to finally prove to his daddy that he is a man. He screwed that up, liike everything else he’s ever attempted.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:45 pmOh, and I forgot to mention – could we get back to Murtha’s statement on Koward Rove?
June 18th, 2006 at 4:46 pmSeixon:
Ok – now that you have seen the proposal, other than giving it an arbitrary name of “cut and run”, what will likely happen if we do those four things, that will be worse for our country and our soldiers than if we “stay the course”?
I agree with you that if only point 1 is done (redeployment) and points 2 and 3 and 4 are not done or not followed through, there are multiple very bad things that could, and likely will, happen. However, if they are done, and followed through, I think the disastrous scenarios can be prevented by a combination of us military might and diplomacy.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:48 pmIt’s still much better than it was under the Taliban, can’t you just bite your lip and admit it? -Seixon
Sure, but that bar was set pretty damn low. It’s still very much a wreck, as you’ve now conceded.
By the way, what exactly was/is the mission in Afghanistan? Are we nation-building there, or hunting the Taliban/Bin Laden, or both?
June 18th, 2006 at 4:48 pmYou also part of the Black/White Club? I guess you are. I said it’s better than it was under the Taliban, I didn’t say it was Hawaii.
You might want to update your “29%†gig since it is now currently inaccurate. I wonder if you think that gay marriage is a crock because only about 30% of Americans agree with it….. I doubt it!
Comment by Seixon
It doesnt matter if it is better than under tha Taliban… we are not in the business of making things “Better” for other countries. Either we are there to make sure another 911 doesnt happen because of camps in that country or we shouldnt be there at all. If they STILL cannot show that the south is on board then that means there could be AlQeada camps in the south right now training … and then wtf have we accomplished at all RELATED to 911…
Stop forgetting and ignoring 911.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:49 pmAgain, you lie through your tooth. 68% of Americans don’t give a shit if gays get married. Afghanistan is not better than it was under the Taliban. You’re a liar, and a fool. And 29% is being generous, knowing how the rightwing media refuses to publish the truth about how hated W is, here and around the world. even my Republican associates are thoroughly disgusted with him, and have been for more than a year. History will place you with the Good Germans.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:49 pmIt certainly is no better for the women and children. It’s better for Bush fellators, because they say so. That’s it, in a nutsack.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:51 pmKeep Republicans out of the military.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:52 pmDon’t let them close to combat.
They must be safe to support the troops.
Keep Republicans out of the military.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:52 pmDon’t let them close to combat.
They must be safe to support the troops.
Walt,
Love post # 137. (Perhaps some kind of inserted straw method?… ewww! I just grossed myself out!)
To everyone else,
June 18th, 2006 at 4:53 pmMay I add my 2 cents?
We are letting a known troll to take over our thread. This is the EXACT repub. strategy to divert us away from the real issues.
Everyone here knows he’s a tool. Let’s please try to ignore him and regain our thread?
Thanks.
A suggestion:
June 18th, 2006 at 4:57 pmSeixon has a blog. Can’t he post something on this so that the discussion/comments can be moved over to his own bandwidth???
>You can’t win a battle you’re not present for… ;) It’s not a “different†position, it’s a position consisting of leaving the battlefield. I’d love to have seen the Allied Forces take Germany without actually being in Germany.
We’re not trying to take iraq. We wanted the non-existent WMDs gone, and we wanted saddam gone. Both are achieved. Our goal now should be to keep a few possibly disastrous scenarios from happening (invasion by another country, large scale ethnic cleansing, formation of a fundamentalist state, or a more massive humanitarian crisis), while trying to nudge things in directions more favorable to us and with a ratcheting down of the violence from the sunnis, al quaeda, and the militias. The bulk of this seems preventable without continuing to expose our troops to IEDs on a regular basis.
June 18th, 2006 at 4:59 pmI for one am glad to see Murtha taking Rove to task. I watched the Meet the Press show this morning. I thought Murtha was fantastic. Mainly because he is very, very, passionate about what he says. He is not trying to score political points here. He defended himself from slander, and let loose with both barrels.
I believe that Rove is worried about Murtha, why else would he so specifically attack the man?
June 18th, 2006 at 4:59 pmChris Green,
I still can’t understand how the US is to prevent all the things you listed by chilling in Kuwait with a force that has to fly to Iraq every time something happens. Doesn’t seem feasible at all.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:09 pmKKKarl, the early years:
http://www.synthfool.com/maw/booji.jpg
June 18th, 2006 at 5:10 pmKrazny,
I believe that Rove is worried about Murtha, why else would he so specifically attack the man?
Yeah, why would Rove go after the two most prominent Democrats who were among the whopping 6 Senators that voted no on the recent symbolic Senate bill about Iraq? It’s just like aiming at an elephant rather than a mouse! Or wait… Hmm.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:12 pmRove is a soulless pig.
Comment by Michael
Don’t insult pigs. Soulless slime is more like it.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:17 pm“I believe that Rove is worried about Murtha, why else would he so specifically attack the man?” – Comment by Krazny
*****Dear Kraz – Put on the progressive conspiracy hat – conservatives WANT Mutiny Murtha to aggressively seek a leadership position – - he’s as much a winner for us as the San Fran progs were in phone baking for Francine Busby. When moderates look at the indybay.org website and democracy action website, visions of Chairmen Conyers and Rangel dance in their heads. Now for the underworked and undertaxed, this change in leadership must seem positive. But for many, the thought of progressive committee chairs is not appealing.
Happy Fathers’ Day!
June 18th, 2006 at 5:19 pmKarl Rove needs to surgically remove King George’s hand from his pants before I’ll give credibilty to anything that fat ass says.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:32 pmOf course they’re worried about Murtha.
When Murtha becomes the minority leader, he will not be as easy to buffalo as Nancy Pelosi.
So they’re attacking a good man, with good ideas, because they don’t happen to agree with theirs.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:44 pmAnd people, remember.
His names not Karl Rove.
Its Turdblossom.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:46 pmthis is where Coulter is right about her point that liberals have protected status . Murtha can sit on his fat sweaty ass and whine and bitch about Bush but he is considered “untouchable” beacuse of his service. Sheehan, the jersey girls, and other left wing mouths can say anything they want and because of their sacrifices and anybody that dares question them is considered outlandish by the left wing. While Murtha served his country, Rove has done more for America by shutting down liberals. He has won elections that have stopped the liberals and for that he is much more of a hero than Murtha.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:47 pmthis is where Coulter is right about her point that liberals have protected status . Murtha can sit on his fat sweaty ass and whine and bitch about Bush but he is considered “untouchableâ€
Comment by moron — June 18, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
Waiter?
I’ll have what this bozo is having.
In case you haven’t noticed Murtha has been insulted every day since he dared to call you bungling clods to task and disagree with you.
He’s even been insulted and called a coward by Congresswoman, from the senate floor.
Can’t touch him? Hell he’s open season for you vultures.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:51 pmRove has done more for America by shutting down liberals.
Comment by moron — June 18, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
Oh yea. Gotta save America from all that freedom, liberty and human rights crap.
He’s saving us from all that stuff, and helping to turn us into a pure Aryan police state.
God bless him.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:55 pmAnd while he’s at it, he’s improving the environment by making sure we don’t have all those pesky clean air provisions and stuff.
Oxygen.
Who needs it?
And breathing?
I hear its highly overrated.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:57 pmGerald Gibson:
Thank you for cutting and pasting my comments in # 113.
June 18th, 2006 at 5:59 pmPlease do it a few more times to get the word out–Fool.
The question of how strongly the varying solar
magnetic activity affects the global temperature on Earth
is intensely debated in climate research, particularly
concerning the causes of the global warming starting around
the beginning of the 20th century. Several physical quantities
that vary with the magnetic activity of the Sun and may
affect the global climate have been identified, among them
the total solar irradiance [Fro¨hlich, 2000], the UV
irrradiance [Woods, 2001], and the cosmic ray flux
[Bazilevskaya, 2000]. However, reliable quantitative
estimates concerning their effects on climate have been
difficult to obtain [e.g., Cubasch and Voss, 2000; Larkin
et al., 2000; van Loon and Labitzke, 2000; Marsh and
Svensmark, 2000].
Wow so the very issue I have brought up is “intensely debated†by the climate scientists.
You gave me a paragraph out of context from information that was intensely debated 5 and 6 years ago! Science is cutting edge.
Besides, who was debating this? And what is their CURRENT position?
Out-dated, limited and obscure information is hardly evidence. LOL!
Yet here you are telling me I am lying and that this issue is bogus. Who am I to believe, a scientific study that cites other studies, or… you?
Hmmm.
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
I’m sure someone (not necessarily valid scientists since you can’t verify your link) 5-6 years ago was discussing it. No one is anymore.
Get that? Now, they’re all on board that Global Warming is real and human iexaserbated. The solar theory is so 2000… this is 2006 and a half. Catch up, huh?
June 18th, 2006 at 6:02 pmHey, Unbelievable,
Please don’t let the trolls get you.
they are here to disrupt, and we’re letting them.
I guess I just wish we could ignore them. I know it’s far easier to ignore Mighty Windbag, but because of Seixon’s emotional (oh poor me! they’re beating up on me!) rant, we all seem to get sucked in. And that means they win.
So, Murtha kicked butt, didn’t he?
June 18th, 2006 at 6:09 pmThe one moment this entire week I was happy to stand by a politician!
Ms.Unbelievable- Hi! How are you? I think that our goofy troll, calls itself ’sexion’, is really none other than our old ‘pal’(cough) WWallace! It was the use of the “LOL” that got my attention. What do you think?
June 18th, 2006 at 6:12 pmThese days, I rarely if ever respond to the bitter, cynical “observations†of a certain spinster, atheist schoolmarm.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — June 18, 2006 @ 5:31 pm
I figure of a confused freak of nature like you dislikes me, I’m living a pretty damn good and moral life. As long as you think something is wrong with me, I’ll know I’m about as close top perfect as any woman can get.
So, Mighty Anus-Sybil-Denny, every time one of you degenerate spilt personalities insults me, I’ll be reminded that I am, very, very fortunately, not to be anything like you. Life is very good as a result. Well, for me.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:15 pmWho cares Cyra?
Trolls are easy to make look stupid.
Of course they really don’t need our help.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:17 pmWhat do you think?
Comment by Cyra Brown — June 18, 2006 @ 6:12 pm
Hi Cyra,
Nice to see you. You know, I bet you’re on to something. There are probably six of them taking turns at being a dozen or so different people. It’s why they are constantly accusing us of being other people – because they are. The thought hadn’t crossed my mind that people were doing that until one of them once accused someone of doing it….
June 18th, 2006 at 6:18 pmI know what you mean Unb.
I have been and always will be Worfeus, and no one else.
I guess we’re just not as comfortable with deception as they are.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:21 pmHi trueblue, how are you?
Please don’t let the trolls get you.
they are here to disrupt, and we’re letting them.
They don’t get me. I guess I should say that my posts should be read in a normal tone. No yelling or upset. It’s how a reasonable person handles a debate. Keep your cool :). They are just target practice.
I guess I just wish we could ignore them. I know it’s far easier to ignore Mighty Windbag, but because of Seixon’s emotional (oh poor me! they’re beating up on me!) rant, we all seem to get sucked in. And that means they win.
I just wanted to finish my debate with him.
So, Murtha kicked butt, didn’t he?
The one moment this entire week I was happy to stand by a politician!
Comment by trueblue — June 18, 2006 @ 6:09 pm
Yes. I’m proud he is a member of our government. Most of them could learn a lot from Jack. But it seems that egos never will. I just hope we can getthem out of office in November, but I have little confidence in the sheep.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:22 pmI have been and always will be Worfeus, and no one else.
I guess we’re just not as comfortable with deception as they are.
Comment by CLUBBER WORFEUS — June 18, 2006 @ 6:21 pm
Well said Worfeus!
I don’t know how anyone can keep themselves straight. Lack of conscience I suppose. :)
I sometime wonder how many people will die in this senseless war before it will be enough for these blood thirsty tyrants. Killing more people will never bring back those who have died. Revenge is only sweet to the inhumane. Not that Iraq has anything to do with 9/11…
I wish we could put all these folks on a plane and let them take a tour of Iraq. Let them see what they are advocating. Give them a reality check.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:27 pmWorfeus, I don’t care, I was just having a “Nancy Drew” moment. Under ANY name, goofy is goofy.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:28 pmUnbelievable,
Yes, they could learn from jack…….
It could be the next catch phrase in DC:
“Hey, do you know Jack?”
(the uneducated) “No, man, I don’t. Is he good?”
“Oh, he’s great. You gotta take him. It’s called, “Balls 101.”
June 18th, 2006 at 6:32 pmIt is a known fact that unbelievable has posted under atleast 3 different names.
1]Daughter of Jesus.
2]basic science lesson.
3]AScholar….[just last night in Think Fast thread]
And I hold that she is also not a teacher,nor has she held a day job in the last 4 months.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:36 pmCheck her blogging [day-time]records.
Be duped if you want to.
From your post in this tread – the references are all to 2000 but one…
the total solar irradiance [Fro¨hlich, 2000], the UV
irrradiance [Woods, 2001], and the cosmic ray flux
[Bazilevskaya, 2000]. However, reliable quantitative
estimates concerning their effects on climate have been
difficult to obtain [e.g., Cubasch and Voss, 2000; Larkin
et al., 2000; van Loon and Labitzke, 2000; Marsh and
Svensmark, 2000].
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
Just because you dug it up from 2005 doesn’t change the fact that the references are 6 years old…
POP!
June 18th, 2006 at 6:38 pmGive’em hell Murtha!!!!!!
June 18th, 2006 at 6:40 pmBush says; Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead!
Rove; Don’t Rove resemble that guy out of deliverance(squeal like a pig Karl)
It is a known fact that unbelievable has posted under atleast 3 different names.
1]Daughter of Jesus.
2]basic science lesson.
3]AScholar….[just last night in Think Fast thread]
And I hold that she is also not a teacher,nor has she held a day job in the last 4 months.
Check her blogging [day-time]records.
Be duped if you want to.
Comment by Sybil
FIRST of all,
Just because you ‘DECLARE’ something does NOT make it fact!!!!!!
Date time records, have you heard of ‘free time’? How about time between classes?
Don’t attack another person without REAL reason, jerkoff!
June 18th, 2006 at 6:43 pmIt is a known fact that unbelievable has posted under atleast 3 different names.
Not it not a FACT. It is your hypothesis that I have repeatedly asked you to prove. So far, nothing but demented opinion.
1]Daughter of Jesus.
2]basic science lesson.
3]AScholar….[just last night in Think Fast thread]
I am not and never have been any of those people. And that is a FACT, Denny. Or should I call you Mighty Aphrodite? Or E. Coli?
And I hold that she is also not a teacher,nor has she held a day job in the last 4 months.
Check her blogging [day-time]records.
Be duped if you want to.
Comment by Sybil — June 18, 2006 @ 6:36 pm
I’d be happy to post my paycheck stub with my name and address blacked out to prove you wrong, but we can’t post images here.
You can refuse to accept the reality that I can post here and do my job just like other people. Teaching isn’t always about talking at people. If you think that, you probably didn’t get past second grade.
I’ve also spent the last three weeks of my vacation working. I have gotten a lot done, and still have been able to post. It’s called multi-tasking, and I am really good at it.
And, for the last time, if I were gonna lie – why would I say I was a teacher and not something impressive? You need me to be wrong so you can feel better about yourself. Sorry, I don’t lie. I don’t need to.
Get a life. You desperately need one.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:46 pmSEXON—-
Just go away, please.
We KNOW your story.
I don’t normally respond to scum like you, but you keep trying to take over this thread.
OK, you poor baby. We’re mean mis-treaters, OK?
Now go lick your wounds. ELSEWHERE. Stop polluting our site.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:47 pm…or should we just jan YOUR blog with our bandwidth?……
“Oh, he’s great. You gotta take him. It’s called, “Balls 101.â€
Comment by trueblue — June 18, 2006 @ 6:32 pm
Sometimes I think it should be required that certain positions in government people who have served in the military. These guys with no experience think they are playing a game.
Time to suit up their children. I bet they’d end the war in 2 weeks…
June 18th, 2006 at 6:49 pm…or should we just jan YOUR blog with our bandwidth?……
Comment by trueblue — June 18, 2006 @ 6:47 pm
A brilliant idea…. Maybe we will have to ALL take him up on his offer to check outhis website… :)
June 18th, 2006 at 6:51 pmUnbelievable…
OK,
my daughter just said the funniest thing.
She hears about all of this stuff, and knows of my ‘allegiance’ with you and “Zoo”.
She just called the 3 of us a “posse”!!!!!!!
June 18th, 2006 at 6:57 pmWell it’s obvious Murtha just hates America.
June 18th, 2006 at 6:58 pmtrueblue & unbelievable,
Just checking in, but I had an idea. Since Seixon is spending so much time here, maybe we should go freep his site. What do you think?
June 18th, 2006 at 6:59 pmtrueblue, your daughter is adorable! Are you sure about Zoo Jr…?
June 18th, 2006 at 7:00 pmOMFG,
Seixon actually blogs about what is said about him on Think Progress? Wow, that dude needs to get out and make some friends. Poor lonley idiot, sitting in Norway.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:16 pmMY POSSE!!!!!
My last attempt didn’t get thru, so this is my second ‘reach out’ to my PEEPS!…
Let’s go blog on over @ dopey’s site….
BTW Zoo, I said earlier I guard her virginity like a hawk…..
sorry. Maybe in a couple of years.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:17 pmBut WE can all get together and have some fun!
Spudge,
I was just there, and he does. How lame. Half the commenters hate him, too. Sometimes you get a bit weird when you only get 6 months of sun a year.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:19 pm[...] MURTHA: He’s in New Hampshire. He’s making a political speech. He’s sitting in his air-conditioned office on his big, fat backside, saying stay the course. That’s not a plan. … We’ve got to change direction. You can’t sit there in the air-conditioned office and tell troops carrying 70 pounds on their backs, inside these armored vessels hit with IEDs every day En: Iraq WAR, asides, ThinkProgress.org — June 18, 2006 [...]
June 18th, 2006 at 7:22 pm#198 – trueblue, are you implying that I would actually let Zoo Jr use his big box of condoms?
;)
If we go over there, we should change our names.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:27 pmSpudge,
Seixon actually blogs about what is said about him on Think Progress?
It’s more about the state of debate about global warming than anything, exemplified by something said here.
Zookeeper,
I was just there, and he does. How lame. Half the commenters hate him, too. Sometimes you get a bit weird when you only get 6 months of sun a year.
Two false statements in one sentence. Good job.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:28 pmI have read that, aside from being a multi-decorated veteran, Congressman Murtha regularly visits wounded military people in hospitals. Have any of the people who reguarly trash him like KKK Rove, Ann-thrax Coulter, Dickhead Cheney, or Frau Schmidt ever done that? Moreover, it’s well known that the current president has never attended a funeral for any of the soldiers killed in Iraq. And, of course, unlike Cher, who doesn’t even make her money as a political pundit but who recently gave a substantial sum to help purchase better helmets for soliders, Ann-thrax has used her money to purchase a million+ dollar home in Palm Beach, whose address she couldn’t even get straight when she last voted .
To Mighty Hypocrite,
June 18th, 2006 at 7:32 pmI believe that Gerald Gibson in his quote below was referring not to the current British monarchy, which hasn’t had a king in over 50 years, but to the “King George” currently in the White House:
“As soon as you can figure out how to attack the people that attacked America on 9/11 get back with us on your authority on military wisdom and King loving conservative loyalist benedict arnolds such as yourself. ”
Of course, since you see nothing wrong with a unitary president who believes he is above the law and has the right to break them whenever it suits his fancy, you didn’t recognize the sarcastic parallel.
Seixon, you are such a weiner/whiner. You “fact check” snarky smartass shit? How inadequate can you get? So only 48% of your commenters hate you….
June 18th, 2006 at 7:33 pmAgreed, Zookeeper!
And, yes, I would like Zoo, Jr. to use the box ‘o condoms elsewhere!
You’ll still be able to recognize my writing, I’m sure.
(Nose swipe ala The Sting!)
To task!!!!
June 18th, 2006 at 7:33 pmWow, that dude needs to get out and make some friends. Poor lonley idiot, sitting in Norway.
Chances are he doesn’t know the language. So we are probably an important social outlet for him. Us and those meteorologist and astrologer friends of his.
Seixon. Try this link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415110114/104-0425328-3142320?n=283155
June 18th, 2006 at 7:34 pmEWWWWWWW!!!!!!
I need a shower!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I clicked on idiot’s site!
Only 43 responses to his diatribes since 6/13/06!??!
No WONDER he comes here!
He’s looking for attention, because NOBODY ELSE cares what he has to say!
Oh, this is *precious*.
OK, be back with you folks after I scrub down!!…….
June 18th, 2006 at 7:42 pmZoo,
Seixon, you are such a weiner/whiner. You “fact check†snarky smartass shit? How inadequate can you get? So only 48% of your commenters hate you….
Wow, so I called you on an obvious BS comment and then you get mad because you know you were just BSing. 48%? Sorry, I haven’t done a tally on the 1247 comments on my blog, but taking the past few days as an example, it’s more like 1% who comment that hate me.
JJ,
Chances are he doesn’t know the language. So we are probably an important social outlet for him. Us and those meteorologist and astrologer friends of his.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I’m fluent in Norwegian, I was out with my friends last night at the club, and I have never claimed the meteorologist nor solar scientist were friends of mine. You guys continually make shit up about me and lie. You guys have no morals or ethics.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:43 pmtrueblue, I gotta go. Zoo Jr caught me using his name in vain, and trying to peddle his ass, so he’s kicking me off his computer. *boo hoo* I also need a shower…
June 18th, 2006 at 7:44 pm#208 – *snort* That’s Zookeeper to you, sweetie darling.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:46 pmHey Mighty, how do you feel about amnesty for terrorists?
June 18th, 2006 at 7:49 pmFloyd,…..Yep! and have you ever seen the bigger version of Rove that followes him around. Bigger, taller, fatter, just as ugly, no neck…Looks like a closet butt buddie to me……LOL
Murtha is the greatest……
rove and this entire administration are lieing whores.
Half the posts are good here today, Gerold, Walt the man and some others….The others just blather and wastd words I skipped over. The repetition is so way typical of the brain washed and brain dead radical right I don’t even need to read beyond the first response. Have a good evening……Blessings
June 18th, 2006 at 7:50 pmI wish Jack Murtha would just knock Rove on his big fat greasy ass.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:51 pmMighty, Seixon,
Tell me how we can stay the course while turning corners? Seems impossible to me. If you do buy the turning corners theory, then you have to admit that turning 37 corners means we are just going in circles. So, are we turning corners or staying the course?
June 18th, 2006 at 7:51 pmtrueblue,
I don’t come here for attention, I come here to keep TP honest. The only attention-seekers are those who continuously smear and attack me for no other reason than to avoid debate.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:52 pmMaybe we’re “staying the corner”.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:53 pmIf you do buy the turning corners theory, then you have to admit that turning 37 corners means we are just going in circles. So, are we turning corners or staying the course?
Comment by Spudge_Boy — June 18, 2006 @
Not circles. A downward spiral, just like ‘Nam. Every “turned corner” sinks us lower.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:56 pmSpudge,
Tell me how we can stay the course while turning corners? Seems impossible to me. If you do buy the turning corners theory, then you have to admit that turning 37 corners means we are just going in circles. So, are we turning corners or staying the course?
Tell me how we accomplish our mission by leaving Iraq. Tell me how things are supposed to get better when we leave them to the terrorists. Tell me how it makes sense to fly our soldiers into Iraq from Kuwait every time there is something going on, which not only is more dangerous to do time and time again rather than just staying there, but would also get Kuwait targetted more by the terrorists.
Your argument is semantical and of no real value. We’re trying to turn a corner in Iraq, and we sure as hell can’t do that if we leave.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:56 pmI don’t come here for attention, I come here to keep TP honest.
Comment by Strapon — June 18, 2006 @ 7:52 pm
Gee, I’m glad thats finally cleared up.
June 18th, 2006 at 7:59 pmTell me how it makes sense to fly our soldiers into Iraq from Kuwait every time there is something going on.
Comment by Strapon — June 18, 2006 @ 7:56 pm
Well first genius, we wouldn’t fly them in “every time something is going on”.
We would fly them in when there is either solid intelligence as to where a terrorist leader or cell is at, like we did for Zarqawi, or when there is an incursion thats “too large” for the Iraqi military to handle.
And considering they have 180,000 trained and ready troops, according to Bush, they should be able to “handle” an awful lot.
June 18th, 2006 at 8:06 pm[...] I suspect John Murtha may have finally done a major amount of damage to himself today. I did not watch his appearance on Meet The Press today, but have read the transcript. Now the left wing might want to cherry pick a single quote out and get all excited about it, but the whole thing reads, well, just a bit different than the left would like it to. MR. RUSSERT: The president says, “stay the course,” that within the next six months, Iraq will be secure under the direction of the new prime minister, and to do anything less now would be irresponsible. [...]
June 18th, 2006 at 8:08 pmWe would fly them in when there is either solid intelligence as to where a terrorist leader or cell is at, like we did for Zarqawi, or when there is an incursion thats “too large†for the Iraqi military to handle.
Yes, as I was saying, “when something is going on.” How would we be getting this intelligence? With our presence removed, we’d have to rely on the Iraqi government entirely. Not only that, but most of our “action” would consist of cleaning up after something has already started or after something has happened. In other words, a large insurrection could take place killing hundreds or thousands, and then we’d come flying in while it was happening or when it’s over – instead of being there to begin with to prevent it from happening.
It’s like changing from a military strategy to a law enforcement strategy.
June 18th, 2006 at 8:10 pmSeixon– Good. Fluent in Norwegian. (You’ve got to admit that it was a funny jibe anyway.) And I, as a member of the reality-based community, welcome you keeping TP honest.
What pushes someone like me to make humorous comments instead of taking you seriously is that, from what I’ve seen, you’re a bit argumentative in non-productive ways.
For instance, with the solar issue, without getting into the details, there’s plenty of information from very good sources that there’s nothing to the science on solar forcing, and just the opposite is the case with CO2. But you argue, as if you’re an authority, that this isn’t the case. So we here on this site hear you yammer continually on about issues like this (I’m assuming you’re not just this way about climate change). So yes, you become the butt of jokes and sarcasm and maybe invective. But that shouldn’t surprise you…
June 18th, 2006 at 8:15 pmJJ,
A Finnish study, published in 2005:
You say “there’s plenty of information from very good sources that there’s nothing to the science on solar forcing” yet you cannot back that up with anything, while a study on solar activity and cosmic flux published in the Journal of Geophysical Research, peer-reviewed I am guessing, says the direct opposite.
Again, as I asked unbelievable, who am I going to believe? A peer-reviewed article in a science journal, or you two? Hmmm. Tough choice.
June 18th, 2006 at 8:19 pmSeixon: yet you cannot back that up with anything
Well, this page does a good job of discussing the issue:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=171
It links to peer reviewed studies.
Plus there’s common sense. We up the content of CO2 by 30% in a matter of a few decades. The temperature goes up to the point where tundra hundreds of thousands of years old thaws. So what’s the most likely scenario? 1) that suddenly and coincidentally the sun has heated up for those few decades causing the tundra to thaw as it hasn’t in hundreds of thousands of years, or 2) that it’s the increase in CO2, which has the known property of trapping heat?
Plus, there’s the experimentally proven strength of the case for CO2 induced warming:
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=3458&method=full
So given these things it’s no wonder that the vast majority scientists support the consensus opinion: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=86
The ones who don’t support it seldom publish and often get their funding through the oil companies instead of a competitive meritocracy among researchers.
Plus there’s this interesting fact. Close to no one who is skeptical about the impact of greenhouse gasses supports taking action just in case there is a problem. You just can’t find skeptics like that. Which says to me that the important thing for these people is not taking action, not realistically judging the science and the risks involved with the issue.
But this is off topic. I probably shouldn’t post another comment on this subject. I just wanted to answer Seixon.
June 18th, 2006 at 8:53 pmNo-brainer and Murtha. You got that right, Sheila. He’s a no-brainer. Likely born a no-brainer. Bin Laden has no greater friend than the Marxists on this board or posturing, self-serving fools like John Murtha. Just as Ho Chi Minh had no greater friend than you people back in the 1960’s and 1970’s.
The only way this war can be lost is if we give up. And that’s precisely what the left-wing kooks want. Bin Laden shouldn’t even bother with videotapes–just play a few clips from DNC leaders and his message will get out loud and clear.
June 18th, 2006 at 8:58 pmYes, this is a post about the Iraq war. My apologies.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:02 pmI think we should all ignore Seixon and let him find friends closer to home. He needs them.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:13 pmGotta check the MTP replay tonight.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:22 pm[...] This is apparently the "progress" Karl Rove accuses the Democrats of "cutting and running" from. Our Iraq policy is no longer (if it ever was) about winning. It is not even about avoiding defeat. Our Iraq policy is now all about domestic politics. The Republican National Committee has officially dubbed the Democrats’ Iraq policy alternatives as "Cut and Run". Serious policy debate is no longer possible. The RNC political strategy is quite shameless. It will use our troops and the Iraqi people to try to garner enough votes in November to retain control of Congress. [...]
June 18th, 2006 at 9:25 pmWhy don’t you have confidence in the government bush installed?
June 18th, 2006 at 9:30 pmComment by Seixon
June 18th, 2006 at 9:33 pmAgain, it is not a matter of believing. It is actually happening whether you believe in it or not. The only way that electromagnetic waves can produce heat is by ineracting with matter. Also, there is different kind of interactions depending on matter and radiation wavelength. Thus, there are particles released in the atmosphere due to human activity which produces more heating than others (due to a higher specific heat capacity). Those particles were put underground and that long lasting mechanism of deposition produced the atmosphere we are breathing now (or kind of). So, do the math. If we are releasing them once again we are going to have the same unbreathable atmosphere of other eras, and we are discovering now that some of those particles affects rapidly the increasing of the global warming. I dont know what is so hard to accept. Scientific reviews? It is common sense and some well done research.
You guys continually make shit up about me and lie. You guys have no morals or ethics.
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 7:43 pm
Thanks for the compliment, but seriously, we couldn’t make up teh shit that you post here. Unfortunately for you, all that alcohol makes you forget 90% of what you say.
It’s no lie – you said it. You really did. You said ‘astrologers’… the people who tell your future with stars… LOL… I’ll go get it…
June 18th, 2006 at 9:39 pmThis is essentially what’s going on right now.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:40 pmNow the left wing might want to cherry pick a single quote out and get all excited about it, but the whole thing reads, well, just a bit different than the left would like it to.
Pingback by Blue Balls Boulevard » Blog Archive » Murtha Flambé — June 18, 2006 @ 8:08 pm
Uh, I’m not sure what your point was there slappy, or if there even was a point, but I saw the entire interview this morning, and Murtha cleaned your clocks.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:41 pmHmm, actually a meteologist and an astrologer here in Norway do not support this hypothesis. Those are only two of many more that have dared actually speaking out in public about it. That is in Norway, a country that relies on the state-owned oil company to pull in the profits from oil.
Comment by Seixon — June 10, 2006 @ 5:06 pm
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/10/al-got-the-science-right/
But I guess the thread is lying…
June 18th, 2006 at 9:46 pmIn post #177, on my screen anyhow, Sexion said he didn’t vote for Bush in 2004, he voted for Nader! I didn’t know Nader ran in 2004! There were alot of people vying for the job, so I could have overlooked him. It is possible. Was he living here, a citizen of our country when he voted? What state did he live in? They probably tossed his ballot anyway. Care to post your ‘Bio’? Just the basics, I am not fishing. Just trying to make sure I understand.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:46 pmOh, for Christ’s sake, Seixon! Get a job! Get a life! And get on your knees and beg your mother’s forgiveness!
June 18th, 2006 at 9:47 pmJournal of Geophysical Research, peer-reviewed I am guessing, says the direct opposite.
Geophysical? Oh moy god! Geophysical Seixon? You poor boy. Geophysical has NOTHING to do with the sun! These people aren’t experts in thd area of solar anything! You wanna look at reports from climatologists and astronomical scientists. No wonder you’ve been duped. You can’t differentiate between fields!
I notice how you reposted for JJ what yo posted for me without the 2000 references… Slick, Slick…
Again, as I asked unbelievable, who am I going to believe? A peer-reviewed article in a science journal, or you two? Hmmm. Tough choice.
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 8:19 pm
Let’s see – who am I goingto believe a handful of earth scientists or a couple hundred climatologists? Hmmm… You lose again Seixon.
Just move to something ou at least have an inkling about. You’re trying to argue fundamental science with a high school science teacher who actually studied this stuff, and a whole bunch of smart folks in here who actuallyread instead of getting drunk.
The only thing you are convincing anyone of is your ingorance about science.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:56 pmNever mess with a school teacher.
June 18th, 2006 at 9:57 pm[...] (Watch the video of Murtha here via Think Progress.) [...]
June 18th, 2006 at 10:10 pmNever mess with a school teacher.
Comment by CLUBBER WORFEUS — June 18, 2006 @ 9:57 pm
That’s why I can handle four trolls at once. It’s a downgrade from 30 students :)
Though it’s a good thing I wasn’t drinking anything when I read ‘Strap-on” You are hysterical. Thanks for the laugh… though Seixon is pretty inadvertently funny with teh crap he tried to pass off as ‘truth’ :)
Well, I’m off – enjoy your evening!
June 18th, 2006 at 10:11 pmIn post #177, on my screen anyhow, Sexion said he didn’t vote for Bush in 2004, he voted for Nader! I didn’t know Nader ran in 2004! There were alot of people vying for the job, so I could have overlooked him. It is possible. Was he living here, a citizen of our country when he voted?
comment by Cyra Brown
Nader did run in 2004, though I think he didn’t manage to get on the ballot in all of the 50 states. I am in no way trying to defend Seixon, whose posts I usually avoid, but it is possible that he voted by absentee ballot, depending on the state where he claims residence.
June 18th, 2006 at 10:23 pmSome states make it harder than others to register for an absentee ballot–particularly if the people in charge don’t like your party preference. I’ve seldom had trouble, when overseas, with absentee ballots from California. On the other hand, a Democrat I know from Ohio has had a lot of trouble getting absentee ballots from his state–very much in line with what RFK Jr. wrote about the 2004 election being stolen.
Oh, and yes, I did vote by absentee ballot for Nader. That’s what people living abroad do. Figure it out.
June 18th, 2006 at 10:36 pmSo this is what passes for a comment by a troll. A 5 page cut and paste and 3 stupid lines of his own saying, “see, told ya so”?
Man I hope they’re not paying him too much.
June 18th, 2006 at 10:39 pmIf you voted for Nador Seixon, then you can thank your lucky stars that he did not win.
Because his agenda, and the agenda you’ve been pushing in here, are poles apart.
June 18th, 2006 at 10:48 pmThere is nothing wrong with what Murtha say. I have yet to see The Moron call his opponents obsequious or inarticulate or label their attitudes inane. He didn’t say Kerry was perplexed or that Dickie was peerless becasue guess what?????????????Most Americans wouldn’t know what obsequious or inarticulate means. They do however understand the simple terms such as fat backside, evil, fear, hell they even understand the term terra as in terror not as in terrafirma. And there is nothing wrong with what Larry Johnson said either. Jeez, this is one of the reasons Dems can’t win for shit. A little coarse language and the leeetle Dems are reaching out for the smelling salts. No wonder Americans think Dems are wimps. For all that this administration has done to this country The Moron and Dickie should only be identified using four letter words.
June 18th, 2006 at 11:13 pmNo need to be nasty, Sexion. I was not casting doubt on your statements, I said I was looking for information. You do want me to be able to better understand you, and your point of view, don’t you? At least that is my impression of it. But biting my head off for asking about you, gives me pause for thought, and is not looking so reasonable to me now. Ah, well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, aside from a few singed hairs, that is.
June 18th, 2006 at 11:13 pmHe isn’t known as Turd Blossom for nothing!
June 18th, 2006 at 11:34 pm“Comment by Lora”- Thank you so much for the ‘memory prod’, on Nader. He was having a heck of a time qualifying for each state’s ballot, if I am recalling correctly. And didn’t he need to be on the ballot in every state, in order to be a “candidate” for president? Because he was not running with party affiliation, this time? Oh bother, I am confusing myself now. But I am happy to learn. I am not too proud to ask, when I don’t know. Nothing wrong with that. It is choosing to stay ignorant, that is a problem for me. I do not understand that mind-set.
June 18th, 2006 at 11:36 pmTurning Point In Iraq?
“In World War II, the complete defeat of all enemies of the United States and its coalition of allies was inevitable approximately three years after the beginning of hostilities.
In the American Civil War, the turning point took place in 1863 at Gettysburg, approximately two years after the start of hostilities.
In World War I, the turning point happened when 3 Million American soldiers arrived and turned the tide of the 3 year long stalemate. The war was over about one year later.
Our Revolutionary War turned after about 3 years.
The War on Terror, which has a start date of September 11, 2001, has now gone on for four and one-half years, and the beginning of the war is not over yet. …”
From OhioDem1’s How to Sell A War
June 18th, 2006 at 11:49 pm#253Cyra Brown,
June 19th, 2006 at 12:15 amYou’re welcome. I believe that Nader still ran with a party affiliation in 2004. However, different states have different regulations about getting on the ballot, and in some states, I think, he failed to garner enough signatures on petitions to get his name listed. Obviously there was less enthusiasm for him in 2004 than there was in 2000–particularly since votes for him in a few states helped Bush carry them.
I agree; it’s better to be willing to learn than to have a mind closed to new information.
To Sheila,
Murtha is absolutely dead wrong. I see you’re parroting his “redeployment” line instead of having the honesty to call it for it is–retreat. If we up and leave Iraq, right now, either the Qaedists or Iran will absorb that nation into the fold, leaving us with a terrorist superstate in the heart of the middle east.
It amazes me to no end how you people wish to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. The ‘insurgents’ and Qaedists haven’t won a single battle in this war except in the propaganda arena–and that’s thanks solely to the useful leftwing idiots we have here at home. 5 years into the war against the Islamic fascists, we’ve destroyed two enemy regimes, fostered two emerging democracies, captured and killed tens upon tens of thousands of the enemy, and suffered less than 2800 deaths (in both Iraq and Afghanistan and other theaters).
I realize that Vietnam is probably your favorite war, Sheila, since it’s the only war that America has lost (it’s why lefties love equivocating every military action to Vietnam–they finally got the precedent of defeat they needed to undermine America), but at the current rate of violence and chaos in Iraq, it would take another 70 years for this fight to equate to Vietnam. That’s nearly 3/4 of a century. There’s some perspective for you.
With regards to Mr. Jones, I couldn’t give a damn. A hypocritical, spineless weasel is a hypocritical, spineless weasel regardless if he’s John Murtha or Walter Jones.
The war in Iraq has been a huge success. That’s just the straight truth. Because of our necessary intervention in Iraq:
-Saddam Hussein, who butchered 1.3 million people, is on trial and facing justice.
-Uday and Qusay Hussein are pushing daisies.
-The Oil for Food scandal has ended.
-Saddam’s WMD programs are gone forever, with no chance of being reconstituted.
-The Ansar al-Islam camps in northern Iraq are obliterated.
-Abu Abbas, who masterminded the Achille Lauro hijacking in 1985, was captured in 2003 and is now deceased.
-The Abu Nidal Organization lost its home base in Baghdad.
-Libya has given up its WMD programs.
-The genocide against the Shia and Kurds under Saddam has ended.
-Three elections have taken place inside Iraq, resulting in a sovereign, democratically-elected government. A legitimate government of the people.
And on and on and on…
My plan is simple, Sheila, darling. Continue with our current strategy of training the Iraqi security forces. As I’m sure you know, the information gleaned after the Zarqawi strike unveiled that Al-Qaeda is frustrated at our success at marginalizing them and training up the Iraqi military. That’s the military answer. Clear. Contain. Hold.
Economically, we should create an 18 part reconstruction team (one for each province) to more efficiently mete out the necessary projects.
Politically, we’ve already done everything we can. In my view, we’ve accomplished our political objectives. And the enemy has failed to stop the progress in this area.
Just because you don’t like the plan, darlin’, doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist. Remember that. And remember that the only way the enemy can win…is if you get your way. If you have a conscience, that fact alone should keep you up at night.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:33 amI think the Bush administration sop “When the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down” is wrong.
The Iraqis will not stand up until we stand down.
We “stayed the course” in Viet Nam from 1961 or thereabouts until 1973, lost 58,000 good men and women, and still lost the war, which of course was a civil war.
We stayed the course in the Korean civil war, which was a war similar to Viet Nam in that it was intended unifiy a country split apart by partitioning by participants in another war. We lost 50,000 good men and women to achieve a stalemate, where even today, over 50 years later, we have 35,000 men and women on that border stationed as a trip wire in the event the North moves on the South. No peace treaty has yet been signed to end those hostilities.
We have tens of thousands of troops in Europe, 60 years after the end of WW II. Given this long history of open ended military engagements, given the propensity of our administrations to risk the lives of our military men and women in the support of one side over another in civil wars, upon what basis is there to assume that we will not be in Iraq supporting one side over another in this civil war for another 10 or 12 years, costing the lives of 50,000 good men and women, followed by a long term military commitment?
Mr. Rove, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, National Security Advisor Rice, Secretary of Defense and a host of others sold the war on Iraq under knowingly false pretenses. They lied to the very Congress they are now attacking. If Mr. Rove wants to say that a Congressman who voted for war on the basis of a dishonest presentation of the justification for war, then when the Congressman chooses to rethink his position based upon the knowledge that he, and the American people have been lied to, that our soldiers are dying every day on the basis of that lie, then Mr. Murtha is well within his rights to suggest that this war, which was started as a result of those lies be ended.
We now have three soldiers who are believed to have been captured by Iraqi “insurgents”. What assurance do we have to expect that these solidiers will be treated humanely by their captors when our President, Vice President, Secretary of Defense, and legal team have twisted the Geneva Conventions our of shape, or have ignored them altogether, have publicly advocated the torture of captives, and indeed have actively lobbied Congress not to prohibit the use of torture? In fact, our president has defied a law that he signed that had a specific prohibition against torture, and the law war authored by a Senator who himself had been tortured while a POW during Viet Nam.
This president and his two adminstrations have dishonered America. It is time to end that dishonor.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:54 amI finally had the time to watch the clip.
Look in Rep. Murtha’s eyes. You can see he’s been there. He knows what our children are going through in Iraq.
And as Father’s Day comes to a close, I grieve with all fathers who have had to bury a son or daughter, grandson or granddaughter, from this war. May some measure of peace touch their hearts.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:38 amI know what you mean about his eyes.
You can see his frustration with the absurdity of this whole thing.
This is about as stupid as America has been for a long, long time.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:15 am“Karl is a shameless bastard. This could explain why his mother killed herself. Once she discovered what a despicable soul she had spawned she apparently saw no other way out.”
Why do even disaffected voters vote Republican? Because no matter how dissatisfied they are with Republican failures of leadership – THIS kind of crap is seen as the alternative. Republicans may be serving up a dish that’s mediocre even by high school cafeteria standards, but it’s the only thing even remotely edible.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:18 amWORFEUS–I need an interpretation here:
Verus amicus est tamquam alter idem.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:12 amThat is so Hilarious considering you were warned repeatly about invading Iraq and having the very same consequnces.
June 19th, 2006 at 6:10 am‘Wash Post’ Obtains Shocking Memo from U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Details Increasing Danger and Hardship
By Greg Mitchell in Editor and Publisher
NEW YORK The Washington Post has obtained a cable, marked “sensitive,” that it says show that just before President Bush left on a surprise trip last Monday to the Green Zone in Baghdad for an upbeat assessment of the situation there, “the U.S. Embassy in Iraq painted a starkly different portrait of increasing danger and hardship faced by its Iraqi employees.”
This cable outlines, the Post reported Sunday, “the daily-worsening conditions for those who live outside the heavily guarded international zone: harassment, threats and the employees’ constant fears that their neighbors will discover they work for the U.S. government.”
It’s actually far worse than that, as the details published below indicate, which include references to abductions, threats to women’s rights, and “ethnic cleansing.”
A PDF copy of the cable shows that it was sent to the SecState in Washington, D.C. from “AMEmbassy Baghdad” on June 6. The typed name at the very bottom is Khalilzad — the name of the U.S. Ambassador, though it is not known if this means he wrote the memo or merely approved it.
The subject of the memo is: “Snapshots from the Office — Public Affairs Staff Show Strains of Social Discord.”
As a footnote in one of the 23 sections, the embassy relates, “An Arab newspaper editor told us he is preparing an extensive survey of ethnic cleansing, which he said is taking place in almost every Iraqi province, as political parties and their militiast are seemingly engaged in tit-for-tat reprisals all over Iraq.”
Among the other troubling reports:
– “Personal safety depends on good relations with the ‘neighborhood’ governments, who barricade streets and ward off outsiders. The central government, our staff says, is not relevant; even local mukhtars have been displaced or coopted by militias. People no longer trust most neighbors.”
– One embassy employee had a brother-in-law kidnapped. Another received a death threat, and then fled the country with her family.
– Iraqi staff at the embassy, beginning in March and picking up in May, report “pervasive” harassment from Islamist and/or militia groups. Cuts in power and rising fuel prices “have diminished the quality of life.” Conditions vary but even upscale neighborhoods “have visibly deteriorated” and one of them is now described as a “ghost town.”
– Two of the three female Iraqis in the public affairs office reported stepped-up harassment since mid-May….”some groups are pushing women to cover even their face, a step not taken in Iran even at its most conservative.” One of the women is now wearing a full abaya after receiving direct threats.
– It has also become “dangerous” for men to wear shorts in public and “they no longer allow their children to play outside in shorts.” People who wear jeans in public have also come under attack.
– Embassy employees are held in such low esteem their work must remain a secret and they live with constant fear that their cover will be blown. Of nine staffers, only four have told their families where they work. They all plan for their possible abductions. No one takes home their cell phones as this gives them away. One employee said criticism of the U.S. had grown so severe that most of her family believes the U.S. “is punishing populations as Saddam did.”
– Since April, the “demeanor” of guards in the Green Zone has changed, becoming more “militia-like,” and some are now “taunting” embassy personnel or holding up their credentials and saying loudly that they work in the embassy: “Such information is a death sentence if overheard by the wrong people.” For this reason, some have asked for press instead of embassy credentials.
– “For at least six months, we have not been able to use any local staff members for translation at on-camera press events….We cannot call employees in on weekends or holidays without blowing their ‘cover.’”
– “More recently, we have begun shredding documents printed out that show local staff surnames. In March, a few staff members approached us to ask what provisions would we make for them if we evacuate.”
– The overall environment is one of “frayed social networks,” with frequent actual or perceived insults. None of this is helped by lack of electricity. “One colleague told us he feels ‘defeated’ by circumstances, citing his example of being unable to help his two-year-old son who has asthma and cannot sleep in stifling heat,” which is now reaching 115 degrees.
– “Another employee tell us that life outside the Green Zone has become ‘emotionally draining.’ He lives in a mostly Shiite area and claims to attend a funeral ‘every evening.’”
– Fuel lines have grown so long that one staffer spent 12 hours in line on his day off. “Employees all confirm that by the last week of May, they were getting one hour of power for every six hours without…..One staff member reported that a friend lives in a building that houses a new minister; within 24 hours of his appointment, her building had city power 24 hours a day.”
– The cable concludes that employees’ “personal fears are reinforcing divisive sectarian or ethnic channels, despite talk of reconciliation by officials.”
June 19th, 2006 at 6:34 amI can’t even see how it is tenable for unbelievable to keep lying about this. It’s right there in front of everyone to see. Later liars.
Comment by Seixon — June 18, 2006 @ 10:30 pm
You just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over. Doesn’t make it true just because you said it for the fourtieth time.
The bottomline is that you don’t know what you’re talking about. No wonder KOS banned you. You just talk to hear yourself talk. There’s no point in having a discussion with you because you just wanna throw yourself on teh floor and whine.
Well, have fun. From now on, I’ll know that your posts aren’t even worth reading because all they contain are lies and exterem obscurist views.
June 19th, 2006 at 8:32 amThis just proves once againAnn Coulter’s point about self appointed liberal infallifiblity. Here’s some liberal mouthpiece who is an ex marine and the left touts him as unreproachable because of his past service.
It’s better we fight the terrorists in Iraq than on the streets of America. if they are too busy fighting us there then they can’s attack us here.
let the moonbat insanity begin!
Comment by liberal morons
liberal morons/chris/redhog/stop the fagness
June 19th, 2006 at 9:31 amThe terrorists were hardly too busy fighting us and our coalition partners at the time, Spain and England, to be unable to attack them. And Osama bin Ladin (been forgotten?), the guy who planned and mostly financed 9/11, is in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border area, remember? The US might have captured him by now if it hadn’t diverted so many resources to Iraq, a country that neither attacked us nor had WMD. North Korea, by the way, does have WMD, but the US isn’t attacking that country, is it?
And just why are the views of Ann-thrax Coulter and KKK Rove, who lack any military experience whatsoever, infallible in your eyes? Murtha, in fact, does not favor abortion and up to recently had been considered a conservative–not a liberal– Democrat. Anyway, chris/redhog, etc., men as old as 58 have been sent to Iraq lately. Why don’t you try re-enlisting again and then come back and entlighten us with all your “expertise”?
ROVE said “Like too many Democrats, it strikes me they are ready to give the green light to go to war†and their the first in cutting and running
June 19th, 2006 at 9:40 amWhat Fat Rove didn’t say was how the administration lied to congress to get us into this war (Cnn had a great documentary last night called ‘Dead Wrong: Inside an Intelligence Meltdown’ See if you get a chance.
Thank You Congressman Murtha
[...] I am not sure if I agree with Murtha’s plan for a right now, absolute immediate withdrawal but I like the fire he is throwing. We need a lot more accountability from the Republican Party and timidity of the current Democratic leadership just isn’t going to deliver. I love the Murtha isn’t backing down and that he just keeps throwing the punches. The Republicans expect us to be weak and when someone like Murtha refuses to give in I have to hope other Dems will start to feel safe going after the Republicans, too. [link] [...]
June 19th, 2006 at 9:40 amYour face is up against the wall my friend. Everyone can see you lied the whole time. When you continue to claim a study published in 2005, done in 2004, is “6 years old†in order to try and undermine it, everyone can see you are a dishonest person.
I didn’t lie, your references said that your DATA (the critical element) was from 2000. It came from your post. It’s when the data is collected – not analyzed that is relevent. How do you not understand that?
You clearly don’t even understand the meaning of the word liar… It doesn’t mean someone who disagrees with you the way you keep using it.
Anyone can read my previous comment showing that you have no clue about anything you say and you will cover it up with lies if you need to. How pathetic.
Comment by Seixon — June 19, 2006 @ 9:26 am
Oh really, then how come they all agree with me, that you don’t know what you’re talking about?
It is you who is desperate Seixon. You need to be ‘right’ at all costs, no matter how dishonest.
You specifically stated to me in April that Global Warming was a result of Solar Warming and not human produced CO2. Just because you keep changing your original premise to try and make yourself look better doesn’t mean anyone is falling for it.
Humans are screwing up the the planet. You just refuse to accept it so you can continue to be an egocentric glutton with no regard for your actions.
But, perhaps you wanna consult with some astrologers first… LOL
June 19th, 2006 at 9:44 am#278 – It’s interesting that the Republicans refuse to define “success in Iraq”.
They keep saying “We have to stay until we win!” OK, fine. What does that mean? Can you give a simple answer that can actually be achieved? “Win the war on terra!” OK, how? Can you give one single definable criteria, or more verbal crap to justify staying over there forever?
Why can’t Republicans tell the truth? Are they constitutionally incapable of that, or do they just like lying through their teeth so much they can’t stop themselves?
June 19th, 2006 at 10:02 amSee anybody that disagrees with the liberal chicken view gets Coulter’d . Disagreeing with the liberal manta gets, discredited, called playground names etc. All the left wingers are just upset Rove got exonerated .They were so sure Rove would be in big trouble and have to leave . Now he is going after Murtha for his cut and run policy. The left will not be happy until they get a Vietnam type withdrawl from Iraq. this is not the 60’s, the muslim terrorists are not the VC and they will ( and have ) attacked us . If we pull out of Iraq and they attack us here, which they will then every left wing , anti war moonbat will have American blood on their hands.
” Ann- thrax coulter and KKK Rove- real cute, what are you five years old or something? is that what you learned in school today little girl? is that how you conduct rational and purposeful debate?? But by all means keep up the good work, show America how you think and once again with the likes of you, Michael Moore and other far left wing America haters the democrats will keep losing elections.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:07 amI can’t believe you all can’t see the Iraq war is CAUSING global warming and is also causing everyone’s face to melt. Also John Murtha is a major source of greenhouse gasses as well as hot air.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:07 amJohn Wayne Murtha strikes again…
How do I love “Jack” Murtha? Let me count the ways:…
June 19th, 2006 at 10:15 amComment by moonbat patrol —
TROLL ALERT
June 19th, 2006 at 10:32 amchris/redhog/stop the fagness/liberal morons/moonbat patrol
You can keep on changing your name, but, sorry, you lack the writing skills to fool anyone. However, you made an interesting slip in admitting that “anybody that disagrees…gets Coulter’d” Coulter’d=sliming/=swiftboating: That’s exactly what Ann-thrax, KKK Rove, and you do: attack anyone–no matter how worthy their credentials–who don’t agree with you guys. Now please re-enlist, chris, and maybe then we’ll take your rants more seriously.
MOONBAT BITCH ALERT…lora
boo lora you almost hurt my feelings, yeah right. Not only a moonbat but a grammar nazi too. your mommy must be so proud. Why is it when the left gets criticized it is “swiftbating” but when the left does it they get it’s true??
June 19th, 2006 at 10:50 amit’s the hypocrisy little girl.
mabe you should enlist in somthing other than PMSing in your liberal way and defend your country and stand up for America instead of the left wing chicken run. You can stop being a traitor any time now.
liberals are causing global warming, and global hypocrisy.
I see the Guy from Norway keeps hanging out on TP threads, but denies he gets paid to defend Karl Rove on here > lol. I was busy yesterday, since it was Fathers Day, so I took my elderly father and mother to Stone Mountain Park, near Atlanta, to enjoy some festivities! Fantastic lazer light show against the mountain in the evening > really spectacular!
Reflections on Guy from Norway: He/she will not say whether it’s a student in Norway, but keeps us all informed on clubbing and drinking in Oslo? So if anyone wants to know where the bars/clubs in Norway are located, then just ask the Norwegian on TP!
June 19th, 2006 at 10:53 amYes, every time Murtha says he wants a planned and strategic withdrawal, the goons start screaming that he wants us to “cut and run”. Bunch of rubbish. Fools a few.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:55 amI listen to Murtha. I respect him and his experience. I never heard him call for an immediate withdrawal. It’s not even possible to do that. The goons call up images of soldiers dropping their guns and running away. Fools. It takes time to get an army out. We should be planning for that, not building permanent bases. The currently sitting Congress can’t even honestly debate the Iraq debacle, let alone make a statement about an exit! But that Congress will be gone soon and THEN we will find out if the Republic will survive or not, if the elected representives have the courage to represent anymore, if the balance of power has shifted too dramatically to permit Congress to act.
I saw this on TV and now this blog, and I feel I must comment. First, the bush admin has a grand plan for Iraq, and will not be swayed; you see, there’s much free $$$ to be made (can you say, “Taxpayers?”), and much has been “invested”, so “we’re” not leaving… EVER. For bush co it was a win-win proposition. Start an unjust, illegal war and cry “Patriotism” (the last refuge of a scoundrel) and the people of the U.S. will fall in line and rally round the flag. Whoops! They didn’t? Well, too bad, ’cause we can’t “cut and run” now, we’d be letting down the proud Iraqi people! It WOULD be a disaster if we staged a quick pullout, so we are obligated really, to help get this country back on it’s feet, since we fu**ed it up to begin with; at least most reasonable people feel this way. That’s what pisses me off even more than bush starting this mess; the bush admin KNEW they could fall back on the, “Well, we CAN’T leave now” excuse. It really was (and is) a sneaky, conniving, evil yet clever plan.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:58 amThe other thing that just KILLS me, is, doesn’t the hard right in this country “get it?”
This is war for profit and gaining control of the Iraqi oil fields at taxpayer expense, in both money and BLOOD. We are paying for this war with our country’s taxes and people’s blood so bush and his cronies can become even more wealthy, which they are. C’mon righties, don’t you see that? If not, you must be blind… Either that, or you will cut your nose off to spite your face before admitting you might be wrong; that’s all I can figure to explain this insanity…
TROLL ALERT
June 19th, 2006 at 11:06 amComment by moonbat patrol,
Thank you for proving beyond a doubt that you are chris/redhog/stop the fagness/moron liberals and probably some other names I didn’t pay attention to.
You have quite a hangup on PMS, chris. Maybe you ought to get yours cured. And since you suggested it to me, why aren’t you out defending America instead of defending your favorite chickenhawks!? But you really don’t have to bother with an answer; I’m sure it will be more of your usual tedious rants, and I frankly have better things to do than give you the attention you obviously crave so badly.
John Murtha has opened the door at last with his strong response to the disinformation campaign waged by Karl Rove and the loyal followers of the right running our government. It will take this coherent dialogue in repetition to hopefully awaken the masses to the truth.
Those elected officials in congress should be ashamed at selling out their own people in favor of partisan loyalty. Common sense is our only hope to enlighten those in power, like Mr. Murtha, to repair our damaged political process and do what is best for the United States and repair our reputation throughout the world.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:19 amhow nice, the girl from Can’t Understand Normal Thinking came back for another witty moonbat reply.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:27 amnot that is any of your business little girl but I did serve my country in the Vietnam war and have an honorable discharge. I would re-enlist if I could believe me.
I see the left wing doing today what they did in the 60’s and 70’s. Cut and run is the plan from the moonbats. This in not an illegal war. where do you get that assessment? It is better to fight the terrorists on their turf than here on American soil. The only nasty comments I hear is from the chickenshit left wingers who always blame America first. good thing you were not around in the 1940’s Hitler would have won and we would all be talking German or jap but today that would probably ok with all the talk of “diversity”.
lora I really don’t care if you respond- it is just one less moonbat to educate. have a nice day.
The greenhouse effect is a bit of a misnomer. What is really happening is that hydro-carbons, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide are gases that easily absorb radiation in the infrared portion of the solar spectrum. As these gasses make up a higher percentage of the atmosphere, the atmosphere absorbs more and more of radiation in the infrared band. Infrared translates to heat and radiation in other parts of the spectrum are not as closely associated with pure thermal effects. Of course, radiation in the ultraviolet range does have a detrimental effect on life, but are not absorbed by the aforementioned gasses as infrared radiation is. In order to explain the degree of warming seen today, using other explanations except the increased density of these gasses, the Earth would have had to move about 2 million miles closer to the Sun based on the rule of squares. Another possibility is that the Sun’s energy output has increased by about 3% in the infrared range of radiation. Neither effect has been observed.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:32 amNow, back to the subject, Koward Rove suffers from a severe case of oral diarrhea and John Murtha has defined that issue in words that were much too kind.
Murtha is the new hero of the moonbat chickenshits. His long years of sitting on his ass in air conditioned office ( since 1974!!) has made him gone soft. He is only against the war because his democratic party has been booted out of power and will never be in power again until they take the defense of America seriously.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:39 amis John Murtha the new cindy sheehan??
is this a race to see how grotesque a person the moonbats can find for their cause??
Murtha is the man, Rove is a poltical game player with our troops lives
June 19th, 2006 at 11:43 amInre to comment 270, “It’s better we fight the terrorists in Iraq than on the streets of America. if they are too busy fighting us there then they can’s attack us here.” I’ve heard this “reasoning” over and over again from the right. This is one of the stupidest things they’ve said yet. The terrorists have neither the ways nor means to do this, and even if a few of them tried it, they would be gunned down in the street. These wild scare tactics aren’t working as well as they once did with most folks, and I don’t mind saying that I’ve NEVER felt afraid, even in a big city or on a plane, nor when the gov’t was telling us to go buy duct tape and plastic sheeting either (some VIP must’ve owned a lot of 3M and Home Depot stock). If most normal, typical Americans are feeling as I do, then what’s next? A police state would be the next logical move for bush, and that’s precisely what’s happening. The ‘08 election should be verrrry interesting indeed…
June 19th, 2006 at 11:47 ammurtha is a politcal hack for the left. Unless you were from Pennsylvania did you ever even hear of Murtha before he obtaines the yellow stripe up his back? no. Murtha was picked by the liberal media because of his cut and run stance.
he is perfect for his stand. as bellicose as kennedy. as snotty as schumer and boxer and as yellow as kerry. he just does not have pelosi’s “charm”.
this is just the left wing of the democratic party whining because they are no longer in power and never again will be until they take national defense seriously.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:50 amquote:Senators Reid and Feinstein will introduce a Senate Resolution on Tuesday 6/20 calling for the phased withdrawal of US forces from Iraq. spoken like true left wing chickens.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:54 amcongress already voted overwhelmingly NOT to support this resolution. Minority party left wing dems cannot come to grips with the fact they are no longer in power.
Invading Iraq was not illegal.. it was neccesary and right to depose hussein.
unbelievable,
I didn’t lie, your references said that your DATA (the critical element) was from 2000. It came from your post. It’s when the data is collected – not analyzed that is relevent. How do you not understand that?
You clearly don’t even understand the meaning of the word liar… It doesn’t mean someone who disagrees with you the way you keep using it.
Let me know where it says DATA in this excerpt, the same as I gave before:
Where does it say the data used in the study is from 2000? It doesn’t. You = liar.
Oh really, then how come they all agree with me, that you don’t know what you’re talking about?
Point out where anyone has commented on your obvious lies. Nope, they haven’t, because they can all see that you did. Usually you don’t help people dig their hole deeper, you just stand and watch silently.
You specifically stated to me in April that Global Warming was a result of Solar Warming and not human produced CO2. Just because you keep changing your original premise to try and make yourself look better doesn’t mean anyone is falling for it.
Another lie, I have never said any such thing. I have said that the Sun’s role has been underestimated and ignored by many of the scientists that have done models to predict future temperatures. I haven’t changed any of the premises, you have. You are here claiming I said something which I did not say.
Humans are screwing up the the planet. You just refuse to accept it so you can continue to be an egocentric glutton with no regard for your actions.
Heh, that’s funny, since I know for a fact that you are “screwing up the planet” more than I am. I don’t even have a car. I walk everywhere I go. Another false assumption about me needed by you because you have long since been shown to be a disgraced liar.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:59 amSeveral physical quantities
that vary with the magnetic activity of the Sun and may
affect the global climate have been identified, among them
the total solar irradiance [Fro¨hlich, 2000], the UV
irrradiance [Woods, 2001], and the cosmic ray flux
[Bazilevskaya, 2000]. However, reliable quantitative
estimates concerning their effects on climate have been
difficult to obtain [e.g., Cubasch and Voss, 2000; Larkin
et al., 2000; van Loon and Labitzke, 2000; Marsh and
Svensmark, 2000].
These are the dates the research was conducted that was then used in the later report. It’s the dates of the resaarch, data, or studies that is pertinent and not the date the report was written (as you maintain).
June 19th, 2006 at 12:05 pmSeixon,
June 19th, 2006 at 12:10 pmThen, am I correct in believing that your living quarters are unheated and you swam to NorwayNow, back to the subject, Koward Rove suffers from a severe case of oral diarrhea and John Murtha has defined that issue in words that were much too kind.
Moonbat regurgitates right-wing talking points and bad analogies (”fight them over there”, liberals not fight WWII) combined with his own demeaning nicknames for people (”little girl”). These tactics are exactly what I dislike about the whole Bush administration’s justifications for its horrible policies.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:28 pmlora I really don’t care if you respond- it is just one less moonbat to educate. have a nice day.
The left will not be happy until they get a Vietnam type withdrawl from Iraq. this is not the 60’s,
comments by uber moonbat=chris=stop the fagness=redhog=liberal morons, etc.
You educate anyone? That’s a big laugh, chris. You can barely write English, and your political commentary consists oif what you have admitted is “coultering”–a great Freudian slip.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:32 pmAnd how do you know that I am a little girl? I could be six feet tall for all you know.
And, by the way, it was a Republican, Richard M. Nixon, who initiated the withdrawal from Vietnam–sorry that you can’t blame the Democrats for that one! Come back when you learn a little history, little boy!
[...] Watch Jack Murtha kick Karl Rove’s chicken hawk fat ass, here. [...]
June 19th, 2006 at 12:40 pm“Big fat backside” ?
It must be open season to resort to personal attacks. Since many of you are screeching advocates of free speech, I may as well exercise my right:
- Most of you hippie-libbie types stink on ice. When will you ever realize that personal hygiene is apolitical?
- Most of you leftist/Marxist types are pathetically out of shape. This is apparant at any ANSWER rally which is stock full of poorly-muscled dudes and overwight “witch-haired” feminist/hippie chicks.
- Che Guevara is dead. Stone dead. He ain’t ever coming back. Instead of resorting to misguided hero worship, why don’t you take charge of your own life and stop living off of the State’s (or Daddy’s) money and partake in the wonderous opportunities that a free society like ours offers?
BTW, I doubt the site administrator has the cojones to post this. Surprise me…
June 19th, 2006 at 1:10 pmMutiny Murtha has a marvelous plan – reconstitute the “new directions” of Ronald Reagan after the Beirut Marine massacre and the “other direction”in Somalia by Bill Clinton. (FYI – bin Laden noted that Somalia confirmed his suspicions that the US was weak and did not have the stomach to do what was “necessary to win”.) So, I guess through the defeatist policies continuously recommended by progressives, we COULD trace bin Laden’s confident attacks on the US to prog whiners.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:26 pmComment 306; George, what are you saying, exactly? Are you just name-calling or did you have something relevant to say? I sure didn’t SEE anything relevant, maybe you can explain it to me… If you are saying that righties are in shape and attractive and lefties are out of shape and are homely, even if it were true, so what? Do you think with your pecs?
June 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pm[...] I like John Murtha. When you listen to him talk, he’s got a “Grandpa Curmudgeon” feel to him. He’s the type of person who I envision will retire and become the self-appointed neighborhood watchman who will keep track of all activity within view of his front porch. But that’s just my personal viewpoint of the man. His politics are very different than my own on a number of social issues. If you saw him on Meet the Press yesterday, you’d know that John Murtha is a conservative Democrat. [...]
June 19th, 2006 at 2:00 pmSeixon,
It’s not convincing to call someone a liar when your nose is twelve feet long and your pants are on fire.
I’m not even reading yur rants anymore. I’ve made my point. You can keep repeating yourself while failing to recognize that you cannot even read a citation iin a report or differentiate between an astrologer and an astronomer…
I think you’re wrong and you can’t stand it. Well, tough. Life isn’t fair. Someone will always dislike you or disagree with you. Why there are 36 different flavors of Baskin-Robbins ice cream and 16 different versions of the Bible…
June 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pmunbelievable,
Awww. Now you’re stuck with reposting the same hollow post in multiple threads like a concerted PR effort to avoid admitting you lied like a dog. Two can play at that game:
For those interested, unbelievable claimed that this study is “out-dated†and uses data from 2000:
http://cc.oulu.fi/ ~usoskin/ personal/ 2004ja010964.pdf
It clearly isn’t “out-dated†and doesn’t use “out-dated†data. unbelievable is a pathological liar. Period. I’m done.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#314
Can’t help but take a swipe at the Bible huh?
I doubt you even understand why there are different versions of the Bible.
The first English translation was in ‘Old English’ thee’s and thou’s. No one speaks that way anymore, so more modern translations became necessary. Any authorized version of the Bible is a product of many scholars going back to the original manuscripts, and re-translating them. “The Living Bible” version came from one man who simplified “The King James” version so his kids could understand it–hence it is not considered an authorized version of the Bible. The only other exception I can think of is ” The New World Translation.” This also was a re-translation of “the King James Bible” by the Jehovah Witnesses, but theirs was a deliberate attempt to alter some of its teachings—also not an authorized version.
Comparing flavors of ice cream to versions of the Bible is a misrepresentation. One does not choose a version of the Bible to pick which message they prefer, they choose one that is easist for them to read—the message is still the same.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:08 pmAntagonist –
Get a real argument and not silly religious nonsense and I’ll be happy to discuss. I have zero interest in your explanation on make-believe sky daddies. Or why you guys have sixteen different versions that don’t say the same thing – or there wouldn’t be 16 versions.
Seixon,
I didn’t read your rant, but I know what it said. A bunch of hogwash, untruthful insults, and egocentric back patting over hogwash and untruthful insults…
June 19th, 2006 at 3:21 pmUnbelievable,
Get a real comparison—one that doesn’t display your ignorance. It’s funny how you can scarcely interact with someone without taking a gratuitous swipe at God or religion. Most of your anti-religious rant is erroneous anyway–where do you get your information? It says a lot about a person when they don’t even care enough to be accurate. It really makes you look dumb.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:48 pmMutiny Murtha has a marvelous plan – reconstitute the “new directions†of Ronald Reagan after the Beirut Marine massacre and the “other directionâ€in Somalia by Bill Clinton. (FYI – bin Laden noted that Somalia confirmed his suspicions that the US was weak and did not have the stomach to do what was “necessary to winâ€.)
Please tell me what we would have won in Somalia. And you’re taking foreign policy lessons from bin Laden?
So, I guess through the defeatist policies continuously recommended by progressives, we COULD trace bin Laden’s confident attacks on the US to prog whiners.
Comment by mighty aphrodite
Or we could trace them back to Reagan’s help defeating the Soviets. That would be bin Laden’s single biggest and most-cited confidence booster in his 9/11 attacks.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:49 pmAntagonist,
You are prone to ridiculous amounts of exaggeration. This was my first religious comment in days – and it wasn’t even really a swipe. You religious folks are so self-fcoused. Everything just must be about you, and you, and you, and you…
Yeah, I look dumb. Right. But you people who believe in invisible idols and talking donkeys look really smart. Uh-huh. That might just be the funniest thing I’ve heard all day… Though Seixon’s rants have been quite hysterical. Tough comparision.
I guess you’ll have to go argue with the churches I attended over the course of my life – they are where my information came from. I didn’t choose Christianity. It was given to me by birth. Atheism, however was completely my choice. Once I had enough of the contradictions and blatant lies in organized religion.
Even your human idol (hey-soos) said that religion is supposed to be private. So, keep your religion out of my life and I won’t need to keep swatting it out of my way.
June 19th, 2006 at 4:18 pm# 315 thanks for the kind words , they are few and far between here but I expect that .
June 19th, 2006 at 5:17 pm#304 ah poor little lora. you keep saying you won’t respond but your anger just won’t let it go . You educate me?? now that is funny coming from a little grammar nazi who can’t spell herself. I refer to you as little because you talk like a sdpoiled little brat who is used to getting her way and throws atntrum when she can’t get it. don’t worry someday you’ll grow up… maybe.
#306 good one George! and welcome to the moonbat minefield! have you ever seen fish being fed in a fishpond? for all you inner city liberals that is place they raise fish to eat. Did you ever see somebody throw fish food pellets land on the water and the fish boil up and attack the food? well that is the way it is here with the moonbats. Some (gasp) non liberal posts and gets attacked, ridiculed , IQ and heritage questioned, religion attacked and my personal favorite is the grammar nazi. Spell one word wrong and bam. moonbats attack. They cannot go after the points and the issues or even stay on track. i.e global warming = Mutha/rove??
and the moonbats wonder why outside of their own little “click” everyday Americans loathe them. They are just dying to turn iraq into their Vietnam. Jack Mutha has given them the opportunity to attack one of the most brilliant political minds in recent memory, Rove. They wish they had someone as brilliant Rove to help them win . Well even with someone like Rove Kerry might not have won. But he’s have our boys out of Iraq by now, just like he cut and run in ‘Nam. Sorry you pseudo-wannabe hippies we get to win this one.
moonbat pirhanas commence feeding
#304 ah poor little lora. you keep saying you won’t respond but your anger just won’t let it go . You educate me?? now that is funny coming from a little grammar nazi who can’t spell herself. I refer to you as little because you talk like a sdpoiled(SIC) little brat who is used to getting her way and throws atntrum(SIC) when she can’t get it. don’t worry someday you’ll grow up… maybe.
comment by moonbat patrol=chris=Stop the fagness=liberal morons=redhog, etc.
Would you care to name one spelling mistake I’ve made?
June 19th, 2006 at 5:41 pmNo, I don’t have any illusions of educating you, Chris. Your mind is too closed for that, as illustrated by the fact that you repeat the same things over and over, even if the facts don’t bear them up. You keep on saying that we must fight Iraq because the US was attacked. Yes, it was attacked, but not one of the attackers was Iraqi. And it’s already been admitted by this administration that Saddam Hussein didn’t have WMD. It was bin Ladin who planned 9/11, which was mostly carried out by Saudis. Has the US attacked Saudi Arabia? Has it caught bin Ladin?
So your comparison to WWII doesn’t hold. Roosevelt, a Democrat, responded immediately to Pearl Harbor. Meanwhile, Prescott Bush, George W. Bush’s grandfather, helped to finance Hitler; his assets were ultimately frozen by the US government for that reason.
Now bye, bye, little boy.
#323
You really are quite self-absorbed aren’t you. I could care less what you believe in, but you casually toss around broad-sweeping generalizations, gross misrepresentations, and ridiculous statements about religious subjects—and then you get all huffy when someone calls you on it. You seem to think that some past exposure to some form of Christianity qualifies your ignorant comments. Throughout history, there have been many highly intelligent people who have spent their entire lives in the study of Scripture. It is well known (among those who care to know it) how the Bible came to be, and why the various translations exist. But you…you with your surface level church attendence in your younger years, know more than they, don’t you. You are so arrogant that you even refuse to admit error, or to retract a false statement. Would it be fair for me to say that all science teachers are evolutionists because their refusal to acknowledge God leaves them no alternative? Should I cite the massive inconsitencies in the dating process and then ridicule you for still believing in evolution? If I did, I would expect you to defend what you believe. Yet you want me to keep silent when you mock what I hold dear. Still you continue with this rubbish—-Even your human idol (hey-soos) said that religion is supposed to be private. Somehow in your vast knowledge of the Bible, you managed to overlook the simple fact that Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. If you choose not to believe in God, then fine—leave it at that. But when you choose to take a swipe at the entire subject, then at least bother to know what you’re talking about.
June 19th, 2006 at 5:45 pmLora I don’t get anal witht eh spelling, this is not 3rd grade. i go for substance and the issues. first of all why do you bring up things from the 1940’s? what does that have to do with today’s issue other than the moonbat mantra of Bush= hitler. It is things like that that lead me to believe that you are immature and can’t debate the issues. YOU keep going over the same things over and over more than I do so chill out.
June 19th, 2006 at 6:22 pmI think Iraq was a good idea and support the war beacuse for 8 yrs with the exception of a few minor airstrikes Clinton and the UN did nothing about Hussein. He was aclear and present danger. he supported terrorists and Janet Reno’ed his own people. Hussein was in cahoots with the UN in the oil for food scandal. I actually find the Iraq war great because if for nothing else the terrorists have been drawn to it and we can fight them there rather than here. if they are busy fighting in Iraq chances are they will be too busy to bring terrorism here. We have not been attacked since 9/11. you think that is just lucky// i don’t .
if you want to debate without the five year old kid whining moonbat mantra of Bush=hitler then fine if not go back to daddy and tell him about your PMSing and take a midol. grow up or shut up.
Chris moonbat
June 19th, 2006 at 6:34 pmYou’re the one who brought up Hitler in #291:”good thing you were not around in the 1940’s Hitler would have won and we would all be talking German or jap”
Sorry I can’t take your advice in #327, because I don’t suffer from PMS (a big hangup for you); I don’t take drugs, and my father, who fought the Germans, is long dead.
Go johnny Go! Go-Go-Go Johnny Go!!!!
June 19th, 2006 at 6:47 pmYou really are quite self-absorbed aren’t you.
Not at all. It’s what makes me a liberal and you a hypocrite…
I could care less what you believe in,
There ya go – hypocritical!
but you casually toss around broad-sweeping generalizations, gross misrepresentations, and ridiculous statements about religious subjects—and then you get all huffy when someone calls you on it.
I don’t get huffy. You trolls aren’t worthy.
The reality is you guys generally force your nonsense on the rest of us and get all indignent when we stand up and say “nope.”. That is exactly what you do when I make any comments about religion. Get pissy that someone thinks you’re a foll for believing in someone else’s pre-packaged ideology.
You seem to think that some past exposure to some form of Christianity qualifies your ignorant comments.
Oh. here we go… I couldn’t have been a real Christian… Nonsense. I was the genuine article. The stuff was nonsense, so I bailed. That’s the part you can’t stand. That someone rejects your beliefs. Tough. It’s ridiculous at best.
Throughout history, there have been many highly intelligent people who have spent their entire lives in the study of Scripture. It is well known (among those who care to know it) how the Bible came to be, and why the various translations exist.
Your opinion. I already have heard the reasoning behind it, but I willingly discard it because it’s a load of nonsense.
But you…you with your surface level church attendence in your younger years,
That would make you feel better wouldn’t it? Nope, I was devout. Went weekly until I was about 33. Hardly what you incorrectly implied.
You are so arrogant that you even refuse to admit error, or to retract a false statement.
Nope. I’m not arrogant. Just certain that organized religion – blind faith – is assinine and refused to participate any further. Or sit quietly by while the pious force their beliefs on others.
Would it be fair for me to say that all science teachers are evolutionists because their refusal to acknowledge God leaves them no alternative?
Sure it would be fair. Free speech entitles you. But ou get so worked up about fair – which life is not – because your pre-packed religiuos ideology is not based in reality. Not even in the same neighborhood. However, you statement is not accurate because you said ALL, and I haven’t said all. Unlike you. I’m not an absolutist.
Should I cite the massive inconsitencies in the dating process and then ridicule you for still believing in evolution?
Go ahead, I wion’t care what you say. I already consider you ignorant and gullible for believing in make-believe fairytale stuff. What you think of evolution – for which there is valid proof – is irrelevent. Your opinions do not invalidate the reality. Evolution is the reality.
If I did, I would expect you to defend what you believe. Yet you want me to keep silent when you mock what I hold dear.
I never said that. I said that I want you (the genral sense of teh word) to stop shoving it down my throat. I said, I’ll stop when you stop.
Somehow in your vast knowledge of the Bible, you managed to overlook the simple fact that Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the Gospel.
Well, I have read the Bible – Catholic version. And Jesus says that religion is private also. Oh the numerous contradictions – what to do, what to do? The private thing is much less selfish – really. Go with keeping your religion to yourself unless someone asks.
If you choose not to believe in God, then fine—leave it at that. But when you choose to take a swipe at the entire subject, then at least bother to know what you’re talking about.
Comment by Antagonist — June 19, 2006 @ 5:45 pm
I do know what I’m talking about – otherwise you wouldn’t be getting so offended.
I strike nerves. Because you question your faith and you don’t like me adding to it. As I said, I know, I lived it. Just as hardcore as you do now. It just stopped being enough when I decided that I didn’t know why I believed what I believed and decided to question it. Once you truly question it, it falls apart because it’s only held together with imagination and wishful thinking.
June 19th, 2006 at 7:12 pmI’m only doing the EXACT same thing as the Christians who preach… But instead of selling Jesus, I’m preaching Reality.
To tell me to shut up, Antagonist, is just purely hypocritical – and I assure you I won’t. I have just as much a right to condemn religion as you do to sell it. You only twist it because I am in opposition of what you are selling.
You have the right to preach. Well, so do I.
June 19th, 2006 at 7:16 pm#328 i thought you brought up the nazi analogy , maybe it was someone else but all the lefties here always use Bush+ hitler in their arguments. if it was not you my humblest apologies.
June 19th, 2006 at 7:21 pmMy profound sympathies on your father who fought for a good cause. my grandfather was in the Italian underground resistance and also was killed by the nazis. maybe that is why I resent the Bush/ hitler analogy so much. The people who flippantly use it really have no idea of what they are saying.
i don’t do drugs either.. nothing stronger than coffee.
i’ll cool the pms thing if you quit trying to correct my mis- typing.I CAN spell, I just can’t type wortha damn.
moonbat
June 19th, 2006 at 7:32 pmTo clear up a misunderstanding, my father wasn’t killed by the Nazis; he survived the war and later fathered me. He has since died of cancer. But I did have a relative who happened to be honeymooning in Europe just when the Nazis overran it. She and her husband were interned by them for a while. She is still alive; her first husband isn’t.
sorry about the misstep, but my condolences for the loss of your father remain…..
June 19th, 2006 at 7:36 pmdo you mean “interred” as in incarcerated, jailed, by the nazis?? see, i am not the only one who has problems typing beacuse I know you are smart enough to know the difference between the two.
Murta calling someone a what? Hmmmmmm does he have a mirror in his “air conditioned” offices?
June 19th, 2006 at 7:43 pmMoonbat chris,
June 19th, 2006 at 8:04 pmI admit: I occasionally make typos, too–just not quite as often as you. I meant “interned”–”incarcerated.” Okay?
Murtha takes the defeatist philosophy of the democratic party nationwide. And when asked about his suggestion of re-deployment, he raises Okinowa as a good base of operations. The fact that it’s 4600 miles from Iraq doesn’t seem to be a problem. And the left wonders why its party of choice loses elections.
June 19th, 2006 at 8:21 pmI liked this quote from Powerline
June 19th, 2006 at 8:37 pmThe Democrats. Irresponsible Democrats are the ones who denounce the administration and propose ridiculous solutions like shipping our troops to Okinawa. Responsible Democrats are the ones who propose policies indistinguishable from the ones now being followed, but denounce the administration nevertheless
I would love for Rove to make a convoy run for a year in Iraq than maybe I can respect anything that he has to say. I have no ideal how how Rove can speak about fighting anything as long as he has his body guards the the like protecting him from getting ripped apart by his own countrymen. F**king big mouth traitor. Right?
June 19th, 2006 at 9:39 pm339 you talking about murtha? Sure sounds like it
June 19th, 2006 at 9:41 pmfeh. any chickenhawk that tries to knock murtha makes themselves look extremely stupid. yeah. try and tell someone who actually served in the armed forces that they have no place to state informed opinions, especially in relation to war. no, such comments should be left to such bright stars as ’sexion’ or whatever his name is. someone who leers creepily from the top of his blog (wearing sideburns like a helmet strap) in norway should be our go-to man for ideas about the war in iraq!
June 19th, 2006 at 10:00 pmUnbelievable,
Sincerely, I am not bothered by your rejection of God and religion… I’m really not! I respect your right to believe whatever you choose. I’m also not one of those people who crams the subject down anyones throat. I don’t do that with anyone, and I won’t do it with you. You frequently make references to your past religeous experiences in mocking tones, and you insult all who would believe in a God. I assure you, that doesn’t strike any nerves on me. The only thing that bothered me was your comment regarding 16 versions of the Bible—implying that they all had a different message. I know for a fact that isn’t true. Still you insist that it is. I know that you regard this entire subject with contempt, and you plunk that contempt down like some kind of wild card that trumps all logic, but there are people who know more about this subject than you. I happen to be one of them, and I happen to know that your 16 versions comment that you’ve recently adopted is false. This can be easily proven. So what’s my point? Of all the liberals who post comments here, you were at least one of the most honest and respectful here. In fact, I kind of liked you. The way you’ve conducted yourself here caused me to respect you, even though I didn’t agree with most things you said. Somewhere along the way you’ve become hardend and somewhat vicious. Now you’re making obviously false statements, and you don’t seem to care. What happened to you?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:36 pmMurtha takes the defeatist philosophy of the democratic party nationwide. And when asked about his suggestion of re-deployment, he raises Okinowa as a good base of operations. The fact that it’s 4600 miles from Iraq doesn’t seem to be a problem. And the left wonders why its party of choice loses elections.
Comment by Doug Book
To Doug B.,
June 20th, 2006 at 12:13 amOkinawa may be 4,600 miles from Iraq, but it isn’t so far from North Korea, which, in fact, does have weapons of mass destruction–and possibly even missiles capable of reaching the US mainland.
#344
Take it easy princess, this thread is about to dry up anyway. Besides there’s been more than enough hand-wringing and fake concern over the casualties in this war without your two cents.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:26 amPs. to chris/moonbat/stop the fagness, and other aliases,
Now that we seem to have reached a certain level of understanding, I would like to say one final thing about drugs. After being in a serious car accident (as a passenger), I was put for a while on pain-killers, which did ease the pain but also made me very drowsy. At a fairly early stage during my recovery, I decided that I would rather be alert and in pain than drowsy and pain-free and started refusing all drugs, to the annoyance of some doctors. I then switched hospitals and have never taken pain-killers again–even when suggested for dental work. I’m tempted to say that perhaps I’ve “acted more like a man” than a certain conservative commenter whose initials are RL, but won’t so as to avoid another tirade from you. Okay?
June 20th, 2006 at 1:58 am# 346; Antagonist:
You will find out soon enough that unbelievable is just a hater.
June 20th, 2006 at 2:15 amShe has deep-seated problems that she has traced back to her childhood.
Save your breath,and don’t even attempt a rational conversation with her.
To her,what she say’s is gospel;twisting anything to fit her world view.
Sorry, just one little correction.
The USA is *NOT* at war with anyone. :) There has been NO decleration of war issued. At best, Iraq could be called a *Police Action*. Except that even that hasn’t been properly defined.
It is going to be very interesting to see how this mess is cleaned up once this Administration is gone. The lawyers are going to be making a killing for generations on this one! LOL
So, let’s be honest. The USA just decided to preemptively invade another soverign Nation.
And people wonder why nobody trusts the USA now? LOL
June 20th, 2006 at 3:24 am#349
For all the complaints of an unjust war, all the demands for our troops to come home, and for all the finger pointing at Bush, Congress continues to fund the hell out of our efforts in Iraq. Think about that for a moment.
June 20th, 2006 at 8:14 amlora sorry about your pain, it is subject I am all too familiar with myself. an accident 5 yrs ago messed up my neck , back and shoulder. I took analgesics for years but being the harded headed person i am i avoided addiction. Botched shoulder surgery did not help. I am prety much always in pain and I could see how it can become easy to take meds to alleviate the pain. i now take pain meds occasionally, i call it my “little vacation” from pain.
June 20th, 2006 at 8:18 amI hear the dig about “RL” but I see how easy it can become to want relief. the biggest problem today is the DEA getting involved in doctors and pain meds. Once again the government’s overreaching hand gets involved because some people abuse things and of course people with chronic pain suffer. Pain is an equal opportunity thing. men and women suffer equally and pain can be a central focus on some people’s lives. You sound lile you have a pretty good head on your shoulders and should consider at leasr some relief when neccessary. i have gotten to the point of only taking the meds when the pain gets to the point that i am more cognizant when taking the meds than dealing with pain. Pain can get you to the point where it really wears you down and clouds thinking and daily living more than any meds. hope ya feel better.
Sincerely, I am not bothered by your rejection of God and religion… I’m really not!
Actions speak louder than words. You act like you are – a lot. In fact, a lot of you do – a lot. Just pointing out the obvious.
I respect your right to believe whatever you choose. I’m also not one of those people who crams the subject down anyones throat. I don’t do that with anyone, and I won’t do it with you.
Again – see my comment above. You say one thing but do another. If it walks like a duck….
You frequently make references to your past religeous experiences in mocking tones, and you insult all who would believe in a God.
In the written word it is you who assign tone to what you read…
I oppose organized religion. I have told you repeatedly – you can believe in any god you want. It’s the pack mentailty of organized religion I have a problem with.
I assure you, that doesn’t strike any nerves on me. The only thing that bothered me was your comment regarding 16 versions of the Bible—implying that they all had a different message.
Would you rather I have referenced the hundreds of different sects of Christianity? You guys don’t agree on one religion. And the 16 different version of the Bible don’t all say the same thing. You are missing the lack of unity and the habitual in fighting betwwen the sects that opposes what Chritianity is supposed to represent.
I know for a fact that isn’t true. Still you insist that it is. I know that you regard this entire subject with contempt, and you plunk that contempt down like some kind of wild card that trumps all logic, but there are people who know more about this subject than you.
For a fact? LOL. Your religion relies upon faith – that is the exact opposite of facts. And you don’t even realized that.
I happen to be one of them,
Oh, really… you’re so condescending. You don’t know what I know. And I know enough to make you write this silly little defensive response to convince me that you know more. Sorry, what you’re selling, I ain’t buying.
and I happen to know that your 16 versions comment that you’ve recently adopted is false. This can be easily proven.
And yet you didn’t.
There are 16 versions. The Catholic Bible I have is different from the King James Version. And those who subscribe to ol’ King James’ book frequently denounce Catholics. I find that hilarious. Same message? Sure. Right. Hate other Christians who read a different book.
So what’s my point? Of all the liberals who post comments here, you were at least one of the most honest and respectful here. In fact, I kind of liked you. The way you’ve conducted yourself here caused me to respect you, even though I didn’t agree with most things you said. Somewhere along the way you’ve become hardend and somewhat vicious. Now you’re making obviously false statements, and you don’t seem to care. What happened to you?
Comment by Antagonist — June 19, 2006 @ 11:36 pm
Nothing happened to me. Don’t try to pin your issues with me thinking that religion is the opiate of the masses on me. This isn’t about me. It’s about your insecurity about your religion. You would have responded if this didn’t upset you so much. Your religion can’t stand to be wrong and teaches you to defend it, talking donkeys and flying dragons and burning bushes and all…
You mistake my disdain for what religion has done to this country for a personal attack when I don’t even know you. As I’ve told you, I couldn’t care less if you believe in gods. What I do have issue with is what the religious right is doing to degrade this country.
So don’t try to use guilt on me. It doesn’t work anymore. I gave that up with religion. It’s manipulative and it says “You’re not who I want you to be, so change.” What gives you the right? Who says that you are better than me and can judge me? You can’t. So stop. You’re just beating your head against the wall.
June 20th, 2006 at 8:45 amYou will find out soon enough that unbelievable is just a hater.
Coming from the vile little diaper who never has anything to say that isn’t hateful or nasty or meant to belitlle and ostracize? You are the world’s biggest loser. You have nothing to offer but anger and criticism of people you don’t even know.
Save your hypocrisy for other people. I find it laughable at best.
She has deep-seated problems that she has traced back to her childhood.
Nonsense. I had a childhood. Very, ery few people get perfect lives. We all have ‘crosses to bear’. No one ever said that life is fair… and if you think that I’m supposed to be less of myself so you can feel better about yourself you’re even more selfish that you have already shown yourself to be.
You want everyone to be the way you want them to be or you demonize them. I’d say you are the one with the deep seated issues – Sybil.
Save your breath,and don’t even attempt a rational conversation with her.
To her,what she say’s is gospel;twisting anything to fit her world view.
Comment by Sybil — June 20, 2006 @ 2:15 am
What don’t you save your breath, and venom? Other peopple are sick of you and your hate-mongering. I just think you are pathetic.
June 20th, 2006 at 8:51 amTake it easy princess, this thread is about to dry up anyway. Besides there’s been more than enough hand-wringing and fake concern over the casualties in this war without your two cents.
Comment by Antagonist — June 20, 2006 @ 12:26 am
You just did exactly what you accused me of doing… But it’s okay for you and not for me? Really, you might wanna look in the mirror before you start giving unsolicited advice to people about their attitude.
And for the record, I’m just talking in a normal voice. Not viscious at all. I just don’t sugar-coat stuff. It’s a waste of time. Should you be so inclined to take your own advice….
June 20th, 2006 at 9:00 amunbelievable > be aware that one of the trolls on here is able to hack our screennames > someone last night posted a comment under my name at 3:30AM on ThinkFast PM thread!
June 20th, 2006 at 9:18 amI informed TP and they deleted it! I do NOT know who did it, but had to be a young cyber nerd troll, who knows how to hack or cut/paste a name?!
Jay,
Was it something rude that they posted?
It doesn’t require hacking since we just type the name into the box. Anyone can be anyone else. They don’t need your email address (mine is an obscure email address that I rarely use, and itdoesn’t give out any perosnal information, so I’m not concerned if someone gets it).
Anyone can do and seems has done this. Someone has pretended to be IRI on numerous occasions. The Chameleon troll “Denny” has pretended to be Sharon Cox.
It’s immature. I hope TP bans people for doing that. That’s not censorship – it’s just responsible.
June 20th, 2006 at 9:25 amPost 359 > yes the troll posted a very vile slander using my name > words and style of the post reminded me of E-coli in some ways, but could have been the Norwegian guy too?!
June 20th, 2006 at 9:38 amJay,
Doesn’t seem like Seixon’s style… but you never know. More likely “E.Coli-Denny-Sybil-Mighty Anus” It’s immitated people before and admitted it. I’m actually surprised it hasn’t been booted yet for posting nothing but personal attacks.
Well, I’m glad that TP removed it. What time was it posted? The chameleon troll frequently posts between 1:00 am and 3:00 am…
June 20th, 2006 at 9:47 amI see how it is with you Unbelievable,
Deny it all you want , but you have become disagreeable to the point of being shrill. You might as well accept the fact that religious people aren’t going away. They will be your fellow countrymen at least for the rest of your life. You should start practicing some of that tolerance you liberals love to preach about. While you’re at it, take a good like in the mirror sometime, and you’ll get an idea as to who the divisive people really are in this country. By the way, my recent exchanges with you have not been out of insecurity about my religion as you suppose, but rather about you making false statements—remember? You are right about one thing though, attempting to interact with you is like beating my head against the wall.
June 20th, 2006 at 10:35 am# 363:
Please be patient with her–she’s troubled.
June 20th, 2006 at 11:00 am#364
June 20th, 2006 at 12:14 pmSomething is different with her—she used to be friendly. Nearly all who posted comments here seemed to hold her in high regard. I’ve noticed that when she began making more and more anti-religious / pro-athiesm comments, and more vociferous sounding comments in general, she started getting a lot more negative attention. Of course in true “unbelievable” fashion, she’ll deny that—continuing to think that everyone else has a problem, and not her. Perhaps she needs an intervention, I think liberals look very favorably on these…
I see how it is with you Unbelievable,
You’re so melodramatic…
Deny it all you want , but you have become disagreeable to the point of being shrill.
Again – you assign tone. I get far more compliments than insults, so I tend to believe the majority had the valid perspective – and the one intended. But you never give anyone the benefit of the doubt. To you everyone is shrill or outrageous or whatever.
Perhaps it is you who should change?
You might as well accept the fact that religious people aren’t going away.
I’m not the one who is delusional. And I’ve never suggested itgo away – just stay out of my face. Stop being so absolute.
They will be your fellow countrymen at least for the rest of your life. You should start practicing some of that tolerance you liberals love to preach about.
I love how you’re always telling me what to do. You people thing you have a monopoly on everything and you know THE right way to live. You should stip minding everyone else’s business and start minding your own.
While you’re at it, take a good like in the mirror sometime, and you’ll get an idea as to who the divisive people really are in this country.
So condescending. You want better than rights. You want to be able to sell your religious beliefs, but shut me up from selling mine. Such hypocrisy. Sounds like you’re the one who is avoiding the mirror.
Your side wants to deny right to gays, immigrants, blacks, poor, and children. There’s the divisiveness. You’re such a hypocrite.
By the way, my recent exchanges with you have not been out of insecurity about my religion as you suppose, but rather about you making false statements—remember?
Nonsense, I see through your excuses. What I said was correct. You haven’t even attempted to post facts to the contrary – just make ad hominem attacks, spout holier-than-thou opinion and try to manipulate me with emotion – which, by the way, doesn’t work.
You are right about one thing though, attempting to interact with you is like beating my head against the wall.
Comment by Antagonist — June 20, 2006 @ 10:35 am
Yes – your attempt. Not you as a Christian – but you specifically. I had a very pleasant exchange this morning in the Think Fast with a guy who is a Christian and has the exact opposite opinion of me and my philosophies as you do. So don’t pretend to be the spokesperson for Christianity. You are not.
There is no truth – just many perspectives. No matter how much you want to deny it. And blame everyone except yourself.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:16 pmPlease be patient with her–she’s troubled.
Comment by Sybil — June 20, 2006 @ 11:00 am
You should stop talking about yourself in the third person. We know you are troubled. You make it blatantly obvious.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:20 pmSomething is different with her—she used to be friendly
Nothing is different. Stop watching Desperate Housewives. People don’t change. I haven’t changed. I’ve always been open about being an Atheist – from day one. That’s nothing new.
. Perhaps she needs an intervention, I think liberals look very favorably on these…
Comment by Antagonist — June 20, 2006 @ 12:14 pm
Perhaps you need to stop thinking you are better than me and therefore have some right to dictate how I should live my life. I didn’t ask for your input. And I certainly don’t want to be anything like you. You’ve always been contentious and hypocritical.
The people who have a problem with me are those on the fringe of both the left and the right. It’s not the way you describe at all. The left 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists hate me as much as your Jesus Freaks do. Most everyone else has no problem with me. Not that I, like you, worry about it. I don’t fret over things I cannot control. And the only thing I control is myself – whom I like just fine the way I am.
So, thank you very much for your unsolicited melodrama, but please, don’t waste your time. I like myself. Clearly, it’s who I’ve chosen to be.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:29 pmUnbelievable,
You’ve managed to assign your own meaning to virtually everything I have said. I can only shake my head at your inability to process information. You keep hurling your anti-religeous accusations at a strawman—a caricature—bit’s and pieces that you’ve cobbled together that don’t even remotely represent anything that any religious person believes. What can I say to someone who turns every statement on its head? You have my pity.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:37 pmFor those who require photographic evidence, here’s a link to a photo of Karl Rove, sprawled out on his fat backside, planning GOP strategy:
June 20th, 2006 at 1:21 pmhttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/CoolOnion/roveplanningstrategy.jpg
That was gross Nick! Why would you put Rove’s face on your picture?
June 20th, 2006 at 1:41 pmYou’ve managed to assign your own meaning to virtually everything I have said.
Nope – the reverse. It was you who started off on that foot and never can get off of it.
I can only shake my head at your inability to process information.
More condescention. You think you are better than me. So typical with you absolutists. You wonder why we avoid you.
You keep hurling your anti-religeous accusations at a strawman—a caricature—bit’s and pieces that you’ve cobbled together that don’t even remotely represent anything that any religious person believes.
Again – more opinion from you and not one single fact or information about the strawman you keep building and defending.
I’m not making up strawmen. Most Christians are hypocrites. The statistics of percent show more of your kind in prison than mine and validate my assertions. You just can’t see it because you don’t want to see it. “Blaming the Devil” makes you have to find devils. Silly really – and a horribly stressful way to live.
What can I say to someone who turns every statement on its head?
What do people normally say to you?
You have my pity.
Comment by Antagonist — June 20, 2006 @ 12:37 pm
Keep it. I neither need nor want it.
You are not better than me as your actions repeatedly show.
Here’s a bit of unsolicited advice for you – if you don’t like what I have to say – don’t read my posts. I rarely read yours. I can’t stand the patronizing, holier-than-thou way you insult people. Get a clue.
June 20th, 2006 at 2:32 pm#369 Antagonist:
Take heart,there are others out here who know how unbelievable is and how she debates.And that number is growing.
June 20th, 2006 at 4:03 pmShe has a small cadre of syncophants that she knows exactly how to stroke.
You really should ignore her–she is miserable and she knows it.
#351 moonat/chris
June 20th, 2006 at 7:22 pmThanks for your kind words. But I’ve seldom suffered from severe pain for quite a while now. I have personally found acupuncture to be the most effective treatment for it, however I realize this isn’t good for everyone. Still, if you have a reputable acunpuncturist in your vicinity, I recommend you give it a try. I can also understand why people want to take painkillers or use medical marijuana.
What I didn’t like about RL is his hypocritical condemnation of people using drugs, all the while he himelf had become addicted himself (though they were presription drugs). Mrs. John McCain also had become addicted to prescription drugs, but at least she kept her mouth shut about others.
Anyway, I hope your residual pain eases off the way mine has.
Sybil,
Don’t you have a bone to go bury or a car to go chase?
June 20th, 2006 at 9:50 pm# 375:
No.
June 21st, 2006 at 1:45 amBut I am digging out the truth.
You’re so cold that antartica feels like a sunny beach reort.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:41 amWell,then,uh,you’re so cold a witch’s tit feels warm.
June 21st, 2006 at 12:51 pmSomehow or other I recently started receiving e-mail from an organization called NewsMax. It was immediately obvious to me that their perspective is from the radical (extremely radical) right–but, in order to know my enemy (as it were), I decided to keep on receiving their garbage.
As regards their point of view regarding John Murtha, I sent them the following:
My comments to NEWSMAX in re John Murtha and Ann Coulter
This service disabled U.S. Navy command master chief petty officer who served on active duty for over 30 years agrees with Congressman Murtha.
All too many who have never served in the military–not to mention a tremendous number of those who served but one tour and can relate only to their very limited experience as junior enlisteds or officers–just do not understand the purpose of our military. Certainly defending the United States against enemies foreign and domestic is what military service is all about; but, it exists even more importantly to prevent war by being so ready to fight that potential enemies will, instead, chose diplomatic solutions to crises.
Many in the Congress who voted to authorize the President to use military force against Iraq did so with the understanding (nay, assurance) that use of such force would be as a last resort. Since the time of Teddy Roosevelt (remember, “Speak softly but carry a big stickâ€.) that has been the understood circumstance under which we would send our troops to battle.
Rather than deploying our military might when diplomatic efforts had been exhausted and the ongoing inspection regime had investigated the suspicions that Iraq had or was developing weapons of mass destruction—the allegations of which have been totally disproved—the decision to invade Iraq was taken as a first rather than last possible action.
That our forces were sent in harm’s way in Iraq based on either faulty intelligence or (as it appears) intelligence that was skewed or tailored to fit predetermined purposes is not only atrocious but criminal.
Who in the Pentagon or White House is willing to step up to the plate and admit responsibility for their mistakes which have thus far taken the lives of over 2,500 soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines and wounded and maimed over 18,000 others. Those loss totals do not include persons under contract and most certainly give no consideration to the lives of innocents killed or injured in the fighting which by some estimates now well exceed 200,000 human beings.
Carl Rove is not worthy of my approbation and I must withhold it. As to whether part of his anatomy is large, I must admit that his obvious pudginess reminds me of the Pillsbury Doughboy.
Should I assume that Rove might not have been physically qualified to serve in the military; or should I conclude that he, along with so many others in the Administration, simply did everything possible to avoid service?
My Kudos go to John Murtha. Bravo Zulu Congressman.
As an aside: It is but small wonder that your survey regarding approval or disapproval of Ms. Coulter was 85% approval and 15% disapproval. When a poll is administered to a partisan group of adherents to a political position–which, given the tenor of much of what NewsMax reports as news, the results cannot help but be slanted. Such is the case here. The “rabid” obviously support the rabid Ms. Coulter.
Al Forget
June 21st, 2006 at 1:28 pmCommand master chief petty officer USN (retired)
Toledo, WA
Well,then,uh,you’re so cold a witch’s tit feels warm.
Comment by Sybil — June 21, 2006 @ 12:51 pm
Witch? Oh, that’s right – you believe in absurd imaginary charcters like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and God…
June 21st, 2006 at 3:42 pm# 380 unbelievable:
You believe in ‘karma’ don’t you?
(Oh,poor taste on your part in this morning’s Think-Fast).
Well,’karma’ has to have a guiding force.
You only make comments like the easter bunny and others to draw out ‘Antagonist’.I think you like her attention-indeed any attention.
Again I ask: Who guides ‘karma’? A brainless universe?
June 21st, 2006 at 5:06 pmTo Al Forget,
June 21st, 2006 at 10:32 pmI would be interested in knowing how NewsMax reacts–if at all–to your articulate message. Last year I suddenly started receiving NewsMax on a computer I use only at a certain workplace no more than twice a week. Like you, I read it for a while to get the other side’s views. But it seemed much too obsessed with Hillary even to myself–not particularly an admirer of hers. Also, I didn’t think I should clog up a computer that is not mine with such e-mail, so I tried to unsubscribe over a period of several days. However, the “unsubscribe” click was never working, nor was NewsMax’s most visible e-mail address. I finally found another e-mail address that got through to them and also had to threaten to report them as spam, if they kept on sending me mailings. Since then, I received one questionnaire from them, which I only responded to with another request to be taken off their e-mailing list. I figure if I get curious about what they are saying I can always access their site on my own.
Nothing ‘guides’ karma. You’re stuck in your box and cannot think outside of it.
And I don’t believe in karma the way that you mean it. It is a word that fits the natural inclinations of electrity (everything is composed of different forms of it).
Karma is like magnets. You know, the things that, without magic or guiding forces, attract to other metals? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet
There was a building in India that used magnets to make a large Hindu icon (they are not really gods the way Chrsitianity defines teh word) float. The invading British, upon seeing this, believed it had to be witchcraft, and destroyed the building. It was just magnets.
There are no gods. The universe doesn’t need a creator or a guider.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:57 amIs karma vengeful ?
Was the destruction of the Hindu building ‘bad’ karma ?
Cause and effect are not always easily interpreted.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:35 amTo Lora,
NewsMax has not responded.
For 25 years I lived in Seattle, WA (through October last year), and did my best to continue to serve my community through involvement in the political process. To that end I became a member of a quite large democrat organization and was well enough regarded to serve as the Secretary of that group, as their representative to the King County Legislative Action Committee, and as a member of both the King County and Washington State Democrat Platform Committees for several election cycles. I was also privileged to serve as a volunteer with the election/reelection campaigns of various local political lights (Senator Patty Murray, Candidate for the United States Senate and King County Executive Ron Sims, and Congressman Jim McDermott among others) doing mundane tasks such as phone banking, mailings, filing, data input and even some representational work. For 12 years I maintained the political database for Congressman McDermott.
I also volunteered in numerous local campaigns and with issue groups in support of environmental concerns, women’s reproductive rights, and various other matters. I from time to time have written letters to the editors of various local papers and have had a few Op-ed articles published. Through such activities I became known to and trusted by local politicians because others listened to what I had to say and respected it because my words were both thoughtful and meaningful–the more so because I have no political ambitions of my own though not a few individuals have suggested I consider running for one office or another. I have, however, been elected as a Precinct Committee Officer which is a political office and one which I took very seriously since it entails representing the people who elected you to that position.
I was also privileged to provide clerical/office assistance to the Advance Campaign for Bill Clinton’s reelection campaign; and, as well, to serve on the Wes Clark for President State Committee.
The late Speaker of the House of Representatives told us “All politics is local” and he was entirely correct. The word politics comes from the Greek word for people and our Founding Fathers ordained and established the Constitution of the United States in the name of “We the People of the United States” doing so to “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.
In doing so they admonished us to participate in the process and, from my standpoint the most important part of the “Preamble” is that phrase which tells us we should be about insuring the betterment of our society for future generations–for our Posterity. As an individual citizens I help that process unless I take part in it which is why I try to study the issues as deeply as I can so that what I might be able to contribute will be (to at least some degree) be based on REASON rather than PASSION.
Anyway, Lora, and after all too much verbiage, the reason I choose to continue to receive NewsMax is so that I can better understand the issues and know that whatever I might be able to contribute to the political process will consider the viewpoints of others even if solely be able to counter opposing positions
Best regards,
Al Forget
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:58 amTo AAl Forget,
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:10 pmThank you for the details on your political life, etc. I wish you the best.
I understand your reasons for continuing to receive NewsMax. I was mainly curious–and still am–to know if they stop sending you mail, if you express contrary views., as I have heard that some rightwing sites quickly ban posters who express disagreement or left-leaning opinions.
To Lora,
Thus far I’ve sent them several responses in complete opposition to their positions and they have not yet stopped.
I hope they don’t since, after grimacing, I usually get a laugh from what they have to say since so much of it seems so whacky.
Al Forget
June 23rd, 2006 at 1:52 am