Right Wing Urges Bush to Pardon Scooter Libby
Right Wing Urges Bush to Pardon Scooter Libby
Since it was announced that Karl Rove escaped indictment, right-wing commentators have aggressively advocated a presidential pardon for Scooter Libby. Here is the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol yesterday on Fox:
[Fitzgerald] indicted one person, not for any underlying crime, but for allegedly mis-remembering a couple of conversations with reporters when talking about them to the grand jury — these were conversations that went nowhere. No one thinks Scooter Libby actually leaked Valerie Plame’s name, even if that were a crime, which is isn’t.
Bush should pardon Scooter Libby and get the whole thing over with…I am blaming Ashcroft for recusing himself. And the CIA was out to get people in the White House at that point. And Bush should pardon Scooter Libby.
Conservative pundit and attorney Joseph diGenova is trying to portray a pardon of Libby as standard operating procedure:
“I think ultimately, of course, there are going to be pardons,” said Joseph diGenova, a former prosecutor and an old Washington hand who shares that view with many pundits. “These are the kinds of cases in which historically presidents have given pardons.”
Scooter Libby is accused of blatantly lying, under oath, to a federal grand jury. Apparently, Kristol and diGenova do not believe that this kind of offense that is worthy of prosecution.
The Carpetbagger Report has more.
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what the heck Bush has broke 720 laws anyway
June 19th, 2006 at 10:12 amalso Proves that theres further up the chain involved
This could be what the Democrats need to enrage enough voters so that even Diebold can't save the Neocons in November.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:16 amEh. Whatever. We all know that the Republican leadership and punditocracy is composed of a bunch of hypocrites. We can keep hyperventilating about it, but it doesn't seem to do much good. Kurt Vonnegut was pretty much correct recently when he remarked that the problem right now in this country is that we've broken up into tribalism. When you run up what you consider to be a reasonable progressive argument, the conservatives and neocons can only see that you're an opposing tribe and they close ranks.
The country needs progressive politicians like LBJ, who could and would cut his opponents off at the knees using the hardest of hardball tactics to get what he needed. Oh well.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:20 amHurray for the Republicans...party of responsibility! The President can break every law he wants and so can his staff. And if they get caught breaking national security laws, then he ca just pardon them anyway. Why waste time trying to hold the Republicans to the same laws everyone else has to follow?
This is the most sickening and repugnant behaviour from the Republicans yet. And considering they continously lower the bar...that is saying a lot.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:20 amHmmm. Think Progress isn't feigning ignorance of history, are they? Come on. Clinton pardoned a massive criminal in Marc Rich, but Libby supposedly lies to a grand jury and that is supposedly unprecedented to pardon?
How can anyone believe anything Think Progress says? This is ridiculous.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:21 amI don't know why you would assume we approve of the pardon of Marc Rich. We don't.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:27 amLibby did more than lie to a grand jury. He leaked classified information.
I guess Republican's love treason.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:29 amSo who do you think will pardon Cheney/Bush when the ime comes?
June 19th, 2006 at 10:29 amJudd,
No, but you pretend that pardoning someone indicted for lying is supposedly unprecedented when Clinton pardoned people who had committed far worse crimes. You said:
Conservative pundit and attorney Joseph diGenova is trying to portray a pardon of Libby as standard operating procedure
It is SOP, as evidenced by your beloved Clinton and all his predecessors. Bush would have to pardon Kenneth Lay to equal Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich. Even then it would still be SOP as far as presidents go historically.
Think Progress, on the other hand, wants to give people the impression that pardoning Libby would be unheard of and outside the ordinary. The precise opposite is true.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:30 amHe should at least receive the exact same sentence as Martha Stewart. Same crime of lying, and under the circumstances, I think a more serious crime than Martha's.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:33 amSeixon;
June 19th, 2006 at 10:37 amJust because a crime has occurred before doesn't make it less reprehensible. Think about bank robbers.
[...] From Think Progress: [...]
June 19th, 2006 at 10:38 amThere is still time to pardon Ken Lay. When was pardoning skooter not an option?
June 19th, 2006 at 10:38 amLying gets you everywhere in the Bush administration. To the right wing, Libby did the brave thing and lied to a clearly biased (towards factual information) jury.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:38 amIf the jury finds him guilty, then I don't care if Bush pardons him, because then he is saying to the world, I will pardon any crook who breaks the law FOR ME. Serve ME, the KING, and you will go free no matter what you've done. I, KING GEORGE, pardon you, crook, for your crime in service to my political machine.
At least it's out in the open.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:38 amActually, I don't know of any President having pardoned someone for treason. Libby would be the first if Pres. Bush does it.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:39 amThe only way to get our government to serve the general welfare of the people it is supposed to represent is revolution.
Yes, these are flagrant violations of ethics and laws. Yes, the flagrancy diminishes the laws.
When bush is gone, what will he leave behind? And who will replace him? And who's interests will he or she serve?
Is there a way other than revolution?
June 19th, 2006 at 10:40 amIt's interesting to me that the pardon for Libby is being discussed before he's even been found guilty of anything in court. I guess it is a foregone conclusion that he will be found guilty?
June 19th, 2006 at 10:42 amSo if lying to a grand jury about leaking classified information is not a crime, then how do they explain going after Clinton? So lying about an extra marrital affair is more serious?...total BS
June 19th, 2006 at 10:42 am....Libby supposedly lies to a grand jury and that is supposedly unprecedented to pardon?
I guess you weren't worried about Clinton lying to a grand jury either....especially since it wasn't over a matter of national security like the Plame outing was.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:45 amThat's the Republican party for you. They were so annoyed when Bill lied. Now, they're advocates of lying under oath.
The party of human vermin.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:45 am#18 - Don't forget, Gov. Fletcher (R-A$$) granted a blanket pardon for anyone involved in his scandals even before they brought him up on trial. I guess it's Republican SOP to pardon anyone before they're found guilty, or even before they're indicted.
So much for the party of "personal responsibility".
June 19th, 2006 at 10:46 amAnon1
Nope, even vermin have standards, the Republicans only have double standards.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:47 amThe pardon of Rich was viewed as controversial and unusual in the news media.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:47 amIt’s interesting to me that the pardon for Libby is being discussed before he’s even been found guilty of anything in court. I guess it is a foregone conclusion that he will be found guilty?
Comment by DrSinker — June 19, 2006 @ 10:42 am
It's being talked about because Bush can pardon him at anytime... He doesn't have to be tried.
Their (neocon) concern is Libby spilling the beans in a trial.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:55 amSkeptic,
Seixon;
Just because a crime has occurred before doesn’t make it less reprehensible. Think about bank robbers.
That's not the issue here. Think Progress is massaging its readers into believing that pardoning Libby would be anything other than run-of-the-mill presidential pardoning.
The pardon of Rich was viewed as controversial and unusual in the news media.
And yet Libby, who has allegedly committed a far lesser offense, comparable to that of Clinton himself, you want to make that equally or more controversial? Whaaaa??
Let's face it, pardoning Libby would be probably one of the least controversial and historically controversial pardons Bush could carry out. If he pardons Kenny Boy Lay, then that will only compare itself to Marc Rich, which again wouldn't make it unprecedented at all.
The Right needs to shut the hell up and wait for Libby to take his case to trial first. I mean the case against him is falling apart before our eyes, with Matt Cooper seen as an impeachable witness by the presiding judge, Tim Russert not being all that forthcoming, and not to mention Libby not actually being accused of committing any crime beyond lying.
No doubt the DC jury pool will probably convict Libby no matter what the truth is, but let it go to trial first before pardoning the dude.
I don't understand why we even have presidential pardons. Is there any reason to have them?
June 19th, 2006 at 10:55 amThese are the kinds of cases in which historically presidents have given pardons.
Historically? The last time a top White House official was indicted was 1875.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:58 am#26 - "And yet Libby, who has allegedly committed a far lesser offense, comparable to that of Clinton himself, you want to make that equally or more controversial?"
Huh?!?!?!? Treason is a lesser crime than having extra-martial sex?
Wow! And here I thought Republicans couldn't twist logic any further than they already have. . . .
June 19th, 2006 at 10:59 amSee what happens when Fitzgerald lets Karl Rove off scott-free > it causes the far-right to demand that even indicted thugs like Libby walk free as well!
Guy from Norway: Why do you hang on the TP threads that belittle Karl Rove or his pal Scooter Libby? Only someone who is paid would defend those creeps! Oh by the way tell us about the Gay bars/clubs you frequent in Norway > you must know alot about them?!
June 19th, 2006 at 11:02 amSo if you love this country so damn much, then why the hell aren't you living here? what the hell?
As far as comparing crimes of Clinton against crimes of BUSHCO, all I can see is keep thinking Clinton's were worse. Everywhere good ol' Bubba goes, the people actually throw flowers. Everywhere BUSH goes - he gets angry protestors (though they try to hide them). What I want to know, WHAT the HELL books will BUSH be stocking his library with anyway?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:02 amThink Progress is massaging its readers into believing that pardoning Libby would be anything other than run-of-the-mill presidential pardoning.-Seixon
Don't feed the troll folks.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:03 amLying about leaking classified information from the WH for political purposes, and covering it up, equates to lying about a blow job?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:05 amYou are HOPELESS! Go drink your coolaid.
bearing false witness is a crime and a serious one.
Bill 'mindless drivel' Kristol blames John Ashcroft?
I see where his loyalities 'lie.'
Bill Kristol is a liar too.
They're all liars.
Here's one they should remember: "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
Maybe they could remember that one. Idiot nutjobs one and all.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:07 amA pardon can also be granted to a class of people, such as those involved in the Whiskey Rebellion. In U.S. v Klein (80 US 128), the Supreme Court upheld such blanket or group pardons. President James Carter pardoned all Vietnam draft dodgers.
Pardons can take place before or after a criminal proceeding. President Gerald Ford, for example, pardoned Richard Nixon before Nixon was ever charged with, let alone convicted, of any crime. Such pardons, however, are rare, and general procedures dictate that at least five years of a sentence should be served before a pardon is considered. In the Constitutional Convention of 1787, this issue was brought up and debated quickly, with no restriction on when a pardon might be granted, suggested by James Wilson as a way of obtaining the testimony of accomplices.
There are, however, things that a pardon cannot cover. The first and most obvious is impeachment, since it is specifically excepted in the Constitution. Civil liability cannot be excused - a harm against another can still be considered a harm even if there is no longer any criminal liability. Contempts of court cannot be pardoned, as they are offenses against the dignity of the court, and not necessarily offenses against the law.
Isn't lying contempt? To willfully mis-remember?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:19 amJay,
Guy from Norway: Why do you hang on the TP threads that belittle Karl Rove or his pal Scooter Libby? Only someone who is paid would defend those creeps! Oh by the way tell us about the Gay bars/clubs you frequent in Norway > you must know alot about them?!
I'm sure glad you refrained from making yet another thread about me. Oh, wait.
Democrat Soldier,
Huh?!?!?!? Treason is a lesser crime than having extra-martial sex?
Has Libby been charged with treason? Nope. Libby is alleged to have lied under oath, Clinton was found guilty of having done the same. That's the FACTS here. Sorry if they rub you the wrong way.
(PS. I think Clinton's Lewinsky affair was a big waste of time, as I also think the Plame investigation is.)
June 19th, 2006 at 11:20 amThere are several reasons for a President to issue a pardon, and they come from all sides of the political world. The pardons of President William Clinton can illustrate some of the various reasons. Clinton pardoned his brother, Roger, for obvious familial reasons.[Imagine if this was LIBBY] He pardoned a pair of Hasidic Jews convicted of defrauding the government [Imagine LIBBY], restoring their civil rights but leaving monetary penalties intact. In a controversial move, he pardoned fugitive financier Marc Rich,[Imagine LIBBY] after application for clemency, in part, from the state of Israel, which had benefited from Rich's philanthropic gestures. President Ford pardoned President Nixon[Imagine LIBBY] of any wrong-doing in order to put a close to the Nixon era for good. President James Madison pardoned army deserters in an attempt to refill the military's ranks for the War of 1812[Imagine LIBBY]. President Abraham Lincoln pardoned all Civil War deserters on the condition that they return to their units to fight.[Dont Imagine Libby] Carter pardoned the Vietnam War draft dodgers to help in the long healing process the nation endured after that war.[Funny I don't see how pardoning Libby will Help the Country 'Heal'. To Pardon people who lie not just to the Court, but to the People as a Whole? What does this accomplish?]
June 19th, 2006 at 11:25 amWell Guy from Norway > You are on the threads bigtime, so I guess Karl Rove decided to hire you full time for TP huh?! He must like your prolific long postings that put everybody to sleep on here! But do tell us more about your bar hopping with the guys in Norway > we all want to here about your drunken party life in Norway > lol.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:31 amHas Libby been charged with treason? Nope. Libby is alleged to have lied under oath, Clinton was found guilty of having done the same. That’s the FACTS here. Sorry if they rub you the wrong way.
Yeh the FACTS here are that Seixon wants Libby to get a Pardon only because they are a Republican. If they get a Pardon then surely you KNOW they lied otherwise they wouldn't get one, right?
Right.
So a Pardon means? You didn't get jail or a fine, but in reality you are still a liar, a crook, or maybe a deserter. But to put a CLOSE to the 'scandal'.
A Pardon is just another way of freezing a scandal. To sweep the ugliness uder the rug and to hope it goes away.
What a sad state of affairs.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:31 amSeixon
What was Bill lying about?
What was Scooter lying about?
That's what makes Scooter's crime worse.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:33 amWell if Bush does pardon Libby he can join the good old gang from the Iran-Contra scandal from Reagan's sorry years in office. Let's see Poindexter, Negroponte, North, Otto Reich, Elliot Abrams and others. He would be in good company. Another Republican administration, another shameful scandal that violates the basic principles of the US. Republicans really have a great history of slime balls this generation. Gotta love your leadership, huh, trolls.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:34 amHEAR not here > typo > tired from Fathers Day yesterday! Guy from Norway > you should have flown back to the US to see your dad instead of posting on here all day yesterday!
June 19th, 2006 at 11:35 amclinton pardoned Rich because his wife donated heavy to his library
June 19th, 2006 at 11:35 amRove and Libby will still be nafarious liars with or without a pardon from medastic medal of freedom sycophants of the Bush corporation of wars, lies and rampant cronyism.
A Pardon is just another way of freezing a scandal. To sweep the ugliness uder the rug and to hope it goes away.
Would someone give Rove, and Libby, the pardons and the Medal of Freedoms so we can sweep these ugly piles of frozen bush scandal crap out the back door, and bury it, so we don't have to smell of them anymore?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:39 amtime to go out and mowe before it gets too hot...
June 19th, 2006 at 11:41 ambefore i go - what was is clinton was AQUITTED of?
back in an hour for that answer... thanks...
Gorton,
What was Bill lying about?
What was Scooter lying about?
That’s what makes Scooter’s crime worse.
I don't see why SUPPOSEDLY lying about conversations with reporters is worse than lying in a sexual harassment suit, or whatever it was. It's the same crime being alleged. Clinton was found guilty of it, while Libby still has his day in court. Which is why the Right need to stfu and let Libby go to trial first.
Jay,
Again, when are you going to start posting comments that are about anything other than me as a person? Hey Judd, isn't that what we call trolling? Just sayin.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:42 amWhat a crew!! Let's impeach Bill Clinton for a little touch and tickle in the White House, but let these despicable officials off the hook for offenses much, much worse. That's typical!
June 19th, 2006 at 11:43 amclinton was aquitted of having a brain
June 19th, 2006 at 11:44 amLol Guy from Norway > you are a paid GOP troll on here > so best for you to get going now!
June 19th, 2006 at 11:45 amclinton was impeached for the same thing you find so offensive
June 19th, 2006 at 11:47 amIf libby is convicted and pardoned, I will not be too suprised. Someone was hoping that Rove had turned on Bush, and was helping fitzgerald by giving him evidence. I pointed out that Bush would pardon Rove, and Rove would not turn. Part of being loyal is knowing you will not have to face jail time. Libby took the fall on this one to help portect his boss. Bush will pardon. This is sort of business as usual. I am unsure how many presidential pardons have been issued. But isn't it common for an outgoing president to issue pardons?
I do find it amusing, that the right wing is falling all over themeselves to say libby should be pardoned after they called for clinton's blood for the same offense. I suppose expecting anything but hypocricy would be too much to ask.
As for Seixon. I think he is obsessed with TP. He clearly needs to take some time off. Maybe get laid, find another hobby or two like huffing, or porn. I am most amused by his insistance that he speaks the "truth" when all his comments are clearly so heavily partisin. I wonder if he is trying to for a job at Fox news?
Happy Monday, I hope everyone had a good weekend. I spent mine at the beach swimming it was great.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:50 am#45 - Libby is accused of lying about illegally releasing classified information to a reporter. The classified information was about the name of a CIA NOC operative. Pres. Bush (Sr.) said he felt this was treasonous.
Fmr. Pres. Clinton was accused of lying about his extra-marital relationship with Monica.
So, the core of the "lying" that both people did was "leaking classififed information" and "extra-marital sex". One is treason, the other is stupid.
For your information, I think that Libby will be pardoned and the Republican party will attempt to paint the entire affair as less-than nothing. (If only 'treason' was 'nothing')
I just wish that the average republican party member would push to have their elected officials take responsibility for their actions and NOT pardon libby until the entire afrfair has been resolved. Once Libby has been found guilty/innocent of the charges, THEN pardon him. Why do it before all the illegal activities get exposed?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:50 amThe only shame for these people is in getting caught.
In the Republicans' eyes, Libby should be pardoned for that, not for breaking the law
June 19th, 2006 at 11:57 am#5 Nobody is saying that Clinton pardoning someone is acceptable either, so I don't see why you would be so ignorant as to even bring that point out. And it is just plain idiotic to try and turn that into proof that ThinkProgress can't be trusted to tell the truth. Talk about compounding logical fallacies.
However, let's be perfectly honest here. I highly doubt that being accused of business wrongdoings and paying 100 million in fines is the same thing as risking national security by outing an undercover CIA agent for political revenge and getting off completely free. Especialy AFTER openlysaying anyone involved with the leak will be fired. Especialy AFTER basi8ng your whole political arguement on protecting national security. Especially after running you entire party on the basis of fighting terrorism (yet outing an agent working in the very area Bush claims to care about).
Sorry, but not only do youmake two extremely stupid mistakes in your logic...but you also fail (or are willfully bilnd) to see the difference in the affects to the country and national security and the type of punishment involved. Hey...charge LIbby 100 million (and Halliburton while we're at it) and we can al be fine. But pardoning lIbby at this point not only says that national security is less important than the Republican agenda but also that nothing any Republican does deserves any sort of punishment regardless of how illegal it is.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:57 amRove and Cheney, the White House’s answer to Bouvard and Pecuchet, are counselors who have driven George Bush into the lowest ratings of any American president. Yet the left remains obsessed with their evil powers. -Alexander Cockburn
I say we keep Rove around as he's been great for Bush ratings =)
June 19th, 2006 at 11:59 amIf the drunken President pardons Libby all hell will break out. Next Abramoff, DeLay, Lay and Skilling will get pardoned. We will see that crime does pay if your a friend of the head criminal. Because this Administration is stupid and didn't fit the crime while Ashcrof was in office now it's two late. Libby's knows that and he and Rove will sing on the stand at the trial. As for the former proscutor well he's just making some of that propaganda money Bush is pasing around.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:01 pmBecause Republicans should NEVER be held to account for anything. Criminal laws, that's for liberals and Democrats.
-GSD
June 19th, 2006 at 12:02 pmPardoning this individual will invalidate the whole American judicial system.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:03 pmSeixon, isn't there a dyke that you need to stuff your finger in somewhere?
-GSD
June 19th, 2006 at 12:05 pmI love the part about how the CIA was out to get the White House.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:05 pmI'd like to meet Kristol and Libby in a dark alley. Show 'em how real men do it.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:07 pmThere was a segment on the Today show (whick I watch on occasion) where they showed video of a bully beating up on a smaller kid on the bus. The smaller kid was being picked on by two older, larger boys; punched repeatedly until he got angry and hit back. The bully then unleashed a flurry of punches on him.
As a liberal (in the true sense) I felt a distinct connection to that boy. It was allegory to our situation as Liberals against this bully regime. What to do? How do we counter such vehement abuse?
When I was in grade school, we did have a school yard bully or two. One guy was the terror of the playground until one day, the kids banded together. It was near the monkeybars, myself and twenty other kids joined together and gave the bully a thrashing he'd never forget.
This, invariably is the fate of all bullies. They are eventually resisted and put down.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:09 pmThe Mission; Take a President with a 90% approval rating and literally destroy it.
The Agents; Rove, Dick, Rummy
The Unknowing Conspirator Patsy's; Faux un-news; Bill O'Really; mAnne Colter, Rush Dimbulb, Vannity & Cullmes, Pearle.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:14 pmKrazny,
As for Seixon. I think he is obsessed with TP. He clearly needs to take some time off. Maybe get laid, find another hobby or two like huffing, or porn. I am most amused by his insistance that he speaks the “truth†when all his comments are clearly so heavily partisin. I wonder if he is trying to for a job at Fox news?
When you live in a completely biased world, everything everyone else says seems to be highly partisan. Only, that's completely opposite of the truth. It's a consequence of being brainwashed day in and day out. If someone says anything remotely different from "the program", then you think they are immediately evil or conspiring "brown shirts" from "the other side". It's really unhealthy.
I am taking time off, that's why I'm here right now. I find it hilarious that you suggest I should get laid, etc, etc, yet you and all the others here who post more often than me - well they don't need to reroute what they're doing at all!
Sorry, I doubt I would fit in with the religious dolts at Fox News.
Mammy T,
Seixon, isn’t there a dyke that you need to stuff your finger in somewhere?
Another geographically ignorant attempt at an ethnic slur. I'm in Norway, not Holland, oh smart one. Who says you guys are ignorant? Holland, Norway, same thing! Yep, you guys really show that the Republicans and Bush are culturally challenged alright. LOL.
Rosencrantz,
Nobody is saying that Clinton pardoning someone is acceptable either, so I don’t see why you would be so ignorant as to even bring that point out. And it is just plain idiotic to try and turn that into proof that ThinkProgress can’t be trusted to tell the truth. Talk about compounding logical fallacies.
You are once again twisting the reason I brought up Clinton and Rich. It's not the fact that I am saying one excuses the other, I'm saying that Think Progress is pretending that pardoning Libby would be anything other than SOP, when in fact, historically, it would be exactly that.
It's just Think Progress preaching to the choir, while omitting the fact that they are presenting a historically laughable argument.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:21 pmGuy in Norway could lay across a narrow valley to hold a glacier back, instead of a finger in a dyke > lol. My bet is that he has never ventured out of Oslo, since getiing sloshed in bars/clubs is his thing!
June 19th, 2006 at 12:27 pmIt's inappropriate, in my humble opinion, for people from the Progress site to use "gay" to try to insult people. WTF? That's the first insult that comes out of people's mouths, even to insult trolls!
June 19th, 2006 at 12:31 pmYou want to know where to find a gay club in Norway? Look it up.
Being gay is not an insult. Going to gay clubs is not a bad thing for anyone to do, unless your intent is violence.
So please, don't perpetuate the "you're a fag" frenzy. Not here.
No Seixon you are much more partisan then me. Please re-read my comment. You will note that I pointed out that presidential pardons at the end of a term are common. I don't know if it is common to pardon someone who may be guilty of the crimes libby commited but it is common. I don't attack those who aren't with the "program as you so quantly put it. I simply pointed out that your knee-jerk defense of Bush, Libby, Rove, etc is pretty normal with someone as obviously partisan as yourself.
I prefer to keep my head clear and make my own decisions based upon facts. I read seveal news sources, and sift for truth.
I am a bit suprised you are in Norway. As a person of norwegian descent, I keep track of the country. And have an Uncle who I regularly email with, who lives in Norway. I also know that Norway is extremely left of center, with perhaps only sweden being more so. It looks to me like you are a Quisling Seixon. Please do Norway a favor and leave.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:32 pm#49 Amy,
Clinton was on TRIAL for impeachment and only found guilty by the House and completely along party lines. The Senate voted NOT to impeach, therefore, HE NEVER WAS ACTUALLY IMPEACHED (although he did come closer than anyone yet!)
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/clinton.htm
Let's keep history accurate here folks...
June 19th, 2006 at 12:44 pmLet's see what Bush junior has to look up to. That is if he still likes his dad. Bush senior pardoned Casper Weinberger, Duane R. Clarridge, Clair E. George, Robert C. McFarlane, Elliott Abrams, and Alan G. Fiers Jr., all of whom had been indicted and/or convicted of charges by the Independent Counsel for the Iran Contra scandal. And as far as Reagan..
Albert Alkek Clemency for withholding information from federal officials regarding an oil price-fixing scheme.
Gilbert Dozier Commuted sentence for extortion and racketeering.
W. Mark Felt Clemency for authorizing FBI agents to break into Vietnam protestors' offices without warrants.
Junior Johnson Pardoned for liquor offences committed in the 1950s.
Edward Miller Clemency for authorizing FBI agents to break into Vietnam protestors' offices without warrants.
George Steinbrenner Clemency for making illegal contributions to Richard M. Nixon's 1972 re-election campaign.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:48 pmI like your stuff Plunger, it gets a person thinking.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:49 pm#69, clinton was impeached in the house
June 19th, 2006 at 12:55 pm#76 but not in the senate. That is why he was never sent packing from the whitehouse.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:57 pmKrazny,
I knee-jerk defend Rove and Bush? I'm simply here to say the same thing as you are now saying, that pardoning Libby would not be unusual at all. What's partisan about that? Nothing. Think Progress is pretending that pardoning Libby would be unusual, when in fact it would be completely normal.
I have also asked why we have pardons at all. Does that sound like a knee-jerk defense of Bush? Not really. Try to keep your head above water.
I also know that Norway is extremely left of center, with perhaps only sweden being more so.
Ehm, no. Sweden is definitely more liberal than Norway, but Norway is not extremely left of center at all. Left of the politics in the US? Sure. However, the 2005 election was a near dead-heat between the conservative factions and the liberal factions. The largest political party in the polls right now is a party that resembles the Republican party in the US.
You should have your uncle educate you a bit more on politics in Norway so you don't goof up again. Or maybe he is as biased as you and can't see the facts for what they are.
Solitaire,
It’s inappropriate, in my humble opinion, for people from the Progress site to use “gay†to try to insult people. WTF? That’s the first insult that comes out of people’s mouths, even to insult trolls!
You want to know where to find a gay club in Norway? Look it up.
Being gay is not an insult. Going to gay clubs is not a bad thing for anyone to do, unless your intent is violence.
So please, don’t perpetuate the “you’re a fag†frenzy. Not here.
The funny thing is that I never said I went to a gay bar, nor did I say I was in Oslo. Jay Randal is living in a fantasy world where he can't keep all his slurs against me straight from reality.
I joked that me and Bush were going to meet at the local gay club to get it on. Obviously some people around here wouldn't understand a joke if it popped right in their face.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:00 pmPost 66 > tell that to the right-wing homophobe Republicans who rant about Gays Daily on TP threads! A lot of Repubs are closeted, so I mention their hypocrisy! I have NO problem with anybody being openly Gay, but if someone bashes Gay couples and at the same time has sex secretly with male escorts, then they are fair game to be outed and exposed on TP! Also bragging about bar/club hopping invites ridicule in my opinion!
June 19th, 2006 at 1:03 pm# 81 Jay Randal:
Come on out of the closet,then.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:11 pmLet's talk.
We understand.
I am not just refering to your posts today, but many of you posts in the past. Your defense of the warrantless wiretapping, where you took the one judge who said it was legal, and used him to say the entire FISA court approved the program. You didn't acknowledge that three judges on the FISA court were worried about the legality. Furthermore the one judge you quoted, it was never made clear his exact role on the court, or if he was even a presiding judge on the court.
You read what you want, then blast everyone from some weird perspective where you claim to be non-partisan. I am sorry but you are very clearly far more partisan then many of the people who regularly post here.
I think largely it is to get attention. You are a partisan hack, with no original ideas. You are obsessed with TP, and the posters here. You claim some sort of moral high ground and fail to deliver time after time. You never admit to making a mistake no matter how much it is show to you that you are wrong. I am done. I will respond to any reasonable attempt to debate, but since you refuse to recognize your own shortcomings, I have no choice but to ignore you.
Seixon you have delusions of adequacy.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:11 pmLOL Guy from Norway > you are paid to come on TP by Rove, or the GOP, to hijack the threads or gum them up with nonsense, but then you play charades about your whereabouts in Norway?
You refuse to answer WHY you are in Norway, and if you are a student or not? But you are the one who mentioned for everybody on here that you go to bars/clubs late at night with the fellas! You never mentioned going out with females, just the guys, and Oslo is a big city with lots of bars/clubs, so do not claim that you are up in far north of Norway in some sleepy village, that just so happens to have late-night clubs > lol. ( Your claim to be living in Norway is full of holes!)
June 19th, 2006 at 1:14 pmSybil we already know you are I-Right-I who is a homophobe who hates himself for lusting for other males!
June 19th, 2006 at 1:17 pm#76 Amy,
June 19th, 2006 at 1:18 pmYou initially and innacurately stated he was 'impeached'. In order to actually be IMPEACHED, both houses must find you guilty. Since only the House did, HE WAS NEVER IMPEACHED, and you should stop spreading the mis-information. If you were on trial for murder and found not guilty, you wouldn't want people calling you a murderer years and years from now, would you?
[...] Think Progress details the absurdity by highlighting comments by the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol: Fitzgerald] indicted one person, not for any underlying crime, but for allegedly mis-remembering a couple of conversations with reporters when talking about them to the grand jury — these were conversations that went nowhere. No one thinks Scooter Libby actually leaked Valerie Plame’s name, even if that were a crime, which is isn’t. [...]
June 19th, 2006 at 1:23 pm#87 you dont know shit
June 19th, 2006 at 1:37 pm#90 - "Why do all these things happen? It’s because I say things that aren’t according to “the program†and everyone wants me tossed out of here because of it."
Hate to break it to you, but that's the standard at any right-leaning web site. Here, the only way you will get banned is from excessive use of profanity or threatening violence. As of yet, you have done neither. While I disagree with your assumptions, you’ve got free reign to say what you want.
It’s the right-leaning web sites that routinely block the truth that they don’t want spread. It’s the right-leaning web sites that ban people if they don’t masticate the party line and regurgitate it exactly like they want it repeated. Go ahead and try it yourself. I plan on staying at TP where they don’t ban people just because they have a difference of opinion.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:39 pmLol Guy from Norway > you are playing games on here about living in Norway! You do not want to claim living in a particular area of Norway, because myself or others would do research on that location and card you with facts about it, which you would be unable or refuse to answer!
For some unknown reason you figured choosing Norway as your ficticious location would be so obscure that nobody could figure out if you live there or not?! Most Americans know very little about that nation, other than it was once part of Denmark and a guy named Quisling once helped Hitler there! If in fact you do live in Norway, then go live your life, and stop defending Bush Regime criminals like Karl Rove on here! Get another job doing something decent!
June 19th, 2006 at 1:43 pm#91 - But I know Amy, and she is full of excrement, therefore, "I know shit".
Actually, Fmr. Pres. Clinton was impeached. Impeachment comprises both the act of formulating an accusation or indictment against an official and the subsequent trial.
Fmr. Pres. Clinton was accused of lying by majority (partisan?) vote in the House. The Senate, however, did not find him guilty of the indictment. Fmr. Pres. Clinton's impeachment was a fact, yet he was subsequently acquitted of charges.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:43 pmDemocrat Soldier,
Sorry to tell you, but both DailyKos and FDL have effectively prevented me from posting anything at their sites ever again. DailyKos did it through mob rule, while FDL did it at the administrative level.
Don't delude yourself into believing one side is better than the other when it comes to that, both sides do it. I'm an Independent moderate and can state that quite candidly. You, however, a partisan biased by Think Progress believes that only one side does this sort of thing. That's sad, really.
I'm here at TP because they don't silence me, although as we have seen the past few days, there's no depths commenters won't go to in order to try and harass me and get me to leave.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:44 pmAmy,
the house of congress voted to impeach Clinton, the Senate voted not too impeach Clinton. Therefore the resolution for impeachment of the president was dropped. I notice that the right tends to be sticklers about the law, when it comes to republicans, but not so much when it comes to democrats.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:45 pmJay,
Sorry, but you are a complete moron. I am perfectly aware what information is available on me on the internet, and if you are really that obsessive about me, you'll be easily able to figure out just exactly where in Norway I live, and what I am doing here.
Meanwhile, you continue to show your complete ignorance of all things Norway, and that you are 100% uninterested in actually debating any issue.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:48 pmclinton was impeached in the house. senate voted not to. it takes both to remove from office. but the senate vote did not wipe out the house vote to impeach. it took him awhile but your brother dan rather even admitted to this. why do you try so hard to sugar coat it? the boy was impeached. get over it
June 19th, 2006 at 1:49 pmthats right sister soldier.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:51 pm99 - Sweetie, only my sisters call me sister. You, on the other hand, are not. Please refrain from calling me that, and I'll refrain from saying you're full of shit.
Deal?
June 19th, 2006 at 1:53 pmI am confused, I thought impeachment meant removal from office. While it is accurate to say Clinton was impeached,if you don't include that he was not removed from office, because the Senate voted against the impeachment, then you are not telling the whole story.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:53 pmnope. even if the house and senate both vote to impeach. it is not 100% that it will end up in removal from office
June 19th, 2006 at 1:56 pmKrazny,
Just goes to show you how stuck in the world of Think Progress spin you are. Clinton was impeached by the House. You can be impeached without being removed from office. Maybe Wikipedia can help you on your way:
You gonna call me a partisan hack now?
June 19th, 2006 at 1:57 pmluckily for our country we have not had to screw around with impeachment to the point we are all experts
June 19th, 2006 at 1:57 pmYou gonna call me a partisan hack now?
Comment by Seixon — June 19, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
sure your a partisan hack
June 19th, 2006 at 1:58 pmOn a more formal note, I believe my post #101, explains my confusion, and admits to being mistaken, I did not realize that the senate voting agains the impeachment articles did not eliminate the articles completly. That would place clinton with andrew jackson if I remember correctly as the only two presidents to be impeached. Or did the Jackson impeachment attempt stop in the house?
Nixon resigned before formal charges started, and no other president has faced charges that could lead to impeachment.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:03 pmDon't you DARE accuse someone of being full of shit (even though I do have brown eyes.)
The bravest words come from the safest places.
Call me names to my FACE and I'll likely kick you where the good lord split ya, honey.
Call me names online and we'll ignore you...
If you can't debate or discuss without Jr. High name calling, you can GO TO HELL.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:06 pmLOL Guy in Norway you continue to play your games on here about Norway! Nobody can google information about you in Norway, but you do admit your blog is hosted in England? Anyone can make up a phony persona for living anywhere in the world> you should have picked Mongolia perhaps > lol.
You thought you could come in here on a high horse claiming to be Norwegian, and we were to be so awestruck, that everything you posted would be taken as gospel, but we on TP are not gullible idiots!
Your boasting of getting drunk, and going out late to party at clubs, are most likely the only truth you have told on any thread! Like another poster on here said > go get laid or married!
June 19th, 2006 at 2:15 pm107, piss off moron
June 19th, 2006 at 2:15 pmI have to go do errands, but will be back later to check posts > have fun all bashing the Bush loving trolls > lol.
Guy in Norway > go peddle your Rovian drivel elsewhere!
June 19th, 2006 at 2:29 pmJay,
I'm perplexed by your insane obsession with me.
Nobody can Google information on me? Why not? I can. If you're smart, you can easily find out lots of things about me. Of course, you're not, so you want me to just do all the work for you.
Yes, my blog is hosted in England. Anyone who knows how to check on that could have figured that out a long time ago. You, however, are ignorant and have no clue as how to do such things.
Yes, anyone can make up a phony persona, but you know Judd can check my IP, and he probably already has, and it shows I am posting from Norway.
How about you go get laid instead of obsessing about me? Perhaps take a computer course and learn how you can find all the information you are so obsessed with finding about me? You could finally become the stalker you apparently want to be.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:30 pmGuy in Norway > you are the stalker on here, so cut the baloney! You are a nobody, so google does not bother posting facts about you! You are a dangerous deluded person and a con-artist!
I only care about your lies, otherwise I could care less who you are, nor where you live!
I have to go, but I am on to your bullcrap!
June 19th, 2006 at 2:41 pmJay,
Almost every single post in the last few days on here has been asking me about my personal details and about why I'm in Norway. Quit trying to project, you abominable human being.
You care about my lies, yet I haven't lied about anything, and you haven't shown that I have lied about anything.
Google will turn up quite a bit on me, actually. I have already checked to see what kinds of things turn up. It's kind of scary really. That's what I have to live with I guess. Unfortunately, psychos like you can too easily get an abundance of information about others such as me to use dishonestly and viciously.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:45 pmThe right wing's message to America?
TREASON IS NORMAL.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:55 pmTREASON IS NORMAL.
Now if only you had evidence of treason....
June 19th, 2006 at 3:04 pmTREASON IS NORMAL.
Now if only you had evidence of treason….
Comment by Seixon —
Well let's have a wide-ranging investigation, and let's also look into every aspect of Libby's sex life; I've heard he was boinking Judy Miller. Could be that national secrets were passed between the two. And let's make sure Rove wasn't in on a threesome - these things are important to republicans, right?
Pardons are all that kept the crooks in the Reagan administration from being tried for treasonous acts. That's the first time we heard all this bleating about "the ciminalization of politics" from republicans. So Seixon; pardons for North, Poindexter, Abrams, and the rest of the slimy lot were ok with you?
June 19th, 2006 at 3:20 pmWhen we reach November, we'll have investigations without the usual rubberstamp republican stonewall (hello, Senator Roberts), because they will no longer be in control.
And to anticipate you Seix, it was the Boland amendment. An act of congress, which Reagan eventually admitted to breaking. You bitch about Rich, and ignore the elephant in the presidential pardons tent. Typical.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:25 pmI’m saying that Think Progress is pretending that pardoning Libby would be anything other than SOP, when in fact, historically, it would be exactly that. Comment by Seixonâ€
Yeah, but you left out the part about who established the standard, and it wasn't Clinton. It was Bush 1.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:28 pmThese are the kinds of cases in which historically presidents have given pardons.†Joe diGenova
Republican presidents, that is. To cover their asses.
June 19th, 2006 at 3:33 pmi pardon you for being a dumb ass
June 19th, 2006 at 3:40 pmoh my toto! a pardon?!!! what wont they think of next?????
June 19th, 2006 at 5:42 pmReally no need for a pardon, its going to be hard to get a conviction as nothing was done wrong. Ms Plame had not been "operational" in so long it didn't matter
June 19th, 2006 at 7:38 pmGuy in Norway: You have been caught in lies by many posters on TP, so your claim to never have lied in here is plain ridiculous! You are the abominable person and insidious con-artist! Psycho fits you perfectly!!!
Nobody likes you on TP because you are paid to defend Bush Regime criminals like Karl Rove! Only someone who has zero morality defends Rove, and anyone whose life consists of getting drunk at bars is a ZERO! Go post your vile rants on some far-right blog > lol.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:08 pmYou know dumbya will do it, and not one of these criminals in power today will see any real time in jail.
These are many of the same criminals that were around in the 1960's and during the Iran-Contra crimes. And now look, Ollie-Shreader-North is now a big star on FAUX news.
However, if we ever get them to the Hague, that will be a totally different story.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:54 am125, the trolls and dumbya-supporters don't enjoy the peaceful cult like atmosphere of the far reich-blogs. These are the type people that love war, conflict, death, destruction and oppression of others. They hide behind religion, claim to be born again and engage in some of the most unChrist like behavor.
They are so vile that they have to spread their garbage like an infectious disease. Look at Man Coulter, they infect each other and reproduce.
Much like cancer cells.
June 20th, 2006 at 12:58 amREAD THIS EVERYBODY
Who's Against a Ban on
Fissile Material?
In 2005, Mohamed ElBaradei was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his outstanding work in the international control of nuclear weapons. In 2003, ElBaradei had proposed a verifiable ban on the production of weapons-grade fissile material – a positive move that would severely limit the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
In a vote of the Disarmament Committee of the United Nations (UN), one and only one nation voted against ElBaradei's proposal – George Bush's America. In that same vote, Israel abstained, apparently fearing international interference with their own outlaw nuclear weapons program, and Britain abstained in an act of diplomatic fealty to the "special relationship" between Tony Blair and George Bush. The final tally was 147 nations to one with the two abstentions. In a later vote of the entire UN General Assembly, Israel and Britain abstained, while America and Palau voted against ElBaradei's verifiable ban on fission, and 179 nations voted in favor of his proposal. The final vote on that occasion was 179 in favor, two opposed (U.S. and Palau), and two abstentions (Israel and Britain).
ElBaradei's proposal would monitor all nuclear fission and guarantee that non-nuclear weapons states would be able to obtain adequate supplies for their nonmilitary usage of enriched plutonium.
One nation has publicly accepted ElBaradei's proposal: Iran.
In light of this important backstory, it is now perfectly obvious that the so-called "negotiations" among America, its intermediaries, and Iran have been designed to camouflage, distort, and erase the historical record. America and Israel are opposed to ElBaradei's proposal for a verifiable ban on nuclear fission (Fissban) apparently to prevent the intrusion of international inspectors into the Israeli nuclear industry.
Given the facts of the highly publicized "Iran Plans" for a massive American military intervention against the Iranian nuclear industry and the constant threat of bombing Iran leveled by American authorities from George Bush and Condoleezza Rice to Richard Perle and John Bolton, it is equally clear that American policy is being driven by a Machiavellian political calculus.
Over the past two weeks, there has been a chain of interlocked events: the execution of Zarqawi; the Camp David summit on Iraq; Bush's secret flight to Baghdad; and the narrow escape of Karl Rove from federal indictment in the Valerie Plame case. These events are fitting into a discernible pattern designed to resuscitate the dying political corpse of the Bush administration in time for the midterm elections this November.
The continuing weakness of the Bush administration, as measured by the president's approval rating, will embolden those proponents of the unilateral bombardment of Iran as a measure that could precipitate the president's resurgence. With so little left to lose, Bush may press the button for war in hopes of gaining approval in red-state America, where his political fate will be decided on the Nov. 6.
Darker plans may even be afoot, or so we are led to believe by scholars of the U.S. intelligence industry. The former CIA official Ray McGovern has warned of "staged" atrocities as part of a covert U.S. program for the manufacture of "'synthetic terror." Robert Woodward warned an academic audience in Texas that the next major atrocity on U.S. soil would reduce 9/11 to a footnote in world history. There are persistent back-channel rumors of Republican Party officials circulating memoranda longing for a return to the heady days after 9/11 to revive the ailing Bush presidency – even at the cost of a new 9/11.
Neither America's people nor the peoples of other nations are being adequately informed about the history of international planning for the control of fissionable materials, which are the essential ingredients for nuclear weapons. The global media is complicit in the increasing threats to peace by a deeply unpopular American president and his loyal cadre of neoconservative apparatchiks, who now threaten the future of the planet with a holocaust of gigantic proportions.
June 20th, 2006 at 5:02 amIronicly Bush Snr has called those who exposed Plame as Insidious Tratiors .
June 20th, 2006 at 7:59 am#115 - "Now if only you had evidence of treason…. "
We have Libby's testimony that he leaked classified information on the orders of VPres. Cheney.
Leaking classified information is treason.
Therefore, we have evidence of treason.
That's so simple, Pres. Bush could follow it.
June 20th, 2006 at 8:54 amPost 127 KJ > Yes the trolls who support the Bush Regime thrive on attacking progressives on TP and other sites! They enjoy picking fights on the threads, but cry foul whenever one of us hits back at them! The Guy from Norway (Seixon) is one of the more clever trolls > best to ignore him, because if you say boo to him he attacks you!
June 20th, 2006 at 8:59 amThat would place clinton with andrew jackson if I remember correctly as the only two presidents to be impeached. Or did the Jackson impeachment attempt stop in the house?
Comment by Krazny — June 19, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
Andrew Johnson was impeached, not Jackson.
June 20th, 2006 at 9:42 am131 - Jay, I have as many here including you totally dismantled sextant many times. I doubt the trolls on TP are more than just one or two people, and they are either paid by some interest or just plain stupid. My money is on them being paid, they only grow people that stupid in areas that are really racist. Norway is actually a pretty progressive country, so I would imagine if sextants family was from Norway, they fled Nazi Germany when they realized they could be prosecuted for war crimes.
129 - WMD, yes it was Senior Bush (or bush the smarter) that is on record calling leakers "the most insedious of traitors" - He actually had several speeches that totally oppose his deamon spawn's views. But again, since the bush family has a history of war profiting and lying, I usually listen to them but know they are lying evil people. Keep your friends close, your enemies far closer.
June 20th, 2006 at 1:12 pmTHE BUSH REGEIME, WHY WOULDN'T THE MOST CORRUPT ADMINISTRATION IN HISTORY PARDON ONE OF ITS OWN? NO ONE WILL STAND UP FOR THE TRUTH AND WHAT IS RIGHT,,,,,,,,WE ARE MOVING TOWARD COMMUNISM, LOOK AT ALL THE HELP BUSH HAS GIVEN BIG BUSINESS, BUSH IS NOTHING WITH OUT KARL ROVE,,,,,,IF IT TAKES THE LIKES OF KARL ROVES LIES TO GET ELECTED, THE U S IS LESS THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN
June 20th, 2006 at 10:46 pmSounds like a pretty good idea to me.
July 13th, 2006 at 8:31 pm[...] Right Wing Urges Bush to Pardon Scooter LibbyThink Progress, DC - Jun 19, 2006Since it was announced that Karl Rove escaped indictment, right-wing commentators have aggressively advocated a presidential pardon for Scooter Libby. … [...]
August 15th, 2006 at 12:10 pm