ThinkFast AM: June 19, 2006
ThinkFast AM: June 19, 2006
President Bush sets off for a “very quick†trip through Europe tomorrow. Ahead of his departure, the Financial Times reports that a new poll indicates Europeans identify the U.S. as the greatest threat to global stability (36 percent). Iran and China come in second and third.
According to a Pentagon spokesman, three remaining U.S. reporters were banned from Guantanamo Bay last week because reporters had threatened to sue if the Americans were allowed to stay. According to one of those reporters, the Pentagon lied.
Despite his promises to push for lobbying reform, some House conservatives still doubt House Majority Leader John Boehner’s (R-OH) commitment: “With this leadership, we never will get rid of earmarks.”
The Washington Post obtained a “sensitive†cable from the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice outlining the “the daily-worsening conditions for those who live outside the heavily guarded international zone: harassment, threats and the employees’ constant fears that their neighbors will discover they work for the U.S. government.â€
In an effort to crack down on employers who hire undocumented workers, the “Homeland Security Department also is seeking access to Social Security Administration records of workers whose numbers and names don’t match — access that has long been blocked by privacy concerns.”
A federal judge “signaled that he was inclined to rule against Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA) and a bipartisan group of House leaders as they challenged the constitutionality of an FBI raid on the Louisiana Democrat’s office last month.†The judge said he was “not sanguine about the argument advanced by Mr. Jefferson’s attorney and the House counsel.â€
Sen. Dianne Feinstein indicated her desire to introduce a resolution in the Senate this week that would call for a phased withdrawal of troops from Iraq, an amendment based on the Strategic Redeployment plan laid out by the Center for American Progress. “I don’t know why we are so afraid to stand up and say, ‘look, we want to see an end to this thing’,” she said.
“An environmental disaster is brewing in the heartland of Iraq’s northern Sunni-led insurgency, where Iraqi officials say that in a desperate move to dispose of millions of barrels of an oil refinery byproduct called ‘black oil,’ the government pumped it into open mountain valleys and leaky reservoirs next to the Tigris River and set it on fire. The resulting huge black bogs are threatening the river and the precious groundwater in the region.â€
Over the weekend, pro-whaling nations won a razor-thin International Whaling Commission vote to declare that “the moratorium on commercial whaling was meant to be temporary and is no longer needed.â€
And finally: Eddie Favre, the mayor of Bay St. Louis, Mississippi and a “distant cousin of Green Bay Packers quarterback and Mississippi native Brett Favre,” has said he is “not shedding his Bermuda shorts until his city is back on its feet.” “Until you make us whole, I’m wearing short pants,” Favre says. “Somebody is going to get stuck with these ugly legs.”
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Europeans identify the U.S. as the greatest threat to global stability (36 percent). Iran and China come in second and third.
Then perhaps we should err on the side of caution send someone less threatening than Bush… like maybe Charles Manson?
June 19th, 2006 at 9:22 amAccording to one of those British reporters, the Pentagon lied.
I thought Pentagon was now spelled B-I-G B-R-O-T-H-E-R?
June 19th, 2006 at 9:24 am“the daily-worsening conditions for those who live outside the heavily guarded international zone: harassment, threats and the employees’ constant fears that their neighbors will discover they work for the U.S. government.â€
I thought King George said that we are needed in Iraq. To do what exactly? Make a bigger mess of things?
June 19th, 2006 at 9:28 am“I don’t know why we are so afraid to stand up and say, ‘look, we want to see an end to this thing’,†she said.
Us neither…
June 19th, 2006 at 9:29 am“the moratorium on commercial whaling was meant to be temporary and is no longer needed.â€
All whale species will be endangered by the end of the summer… Horrible news.
June 19th, 2006 at 9:33 amMost Americans want the Iraq occupation brought to an end, and the troops withdrawn, but the Bush Regime refuses to even consider it! The Congress is ignoring the will of the people as well, so they must be punished! Vote out every creep in the House and Senate who backs this fiasco in Iraq to control its OIL!
June 19th, 2006 at 9:35 amPresident Bush sets off for a “very quick†trip through Europe tomorrow. Ahead of his departure, the Financial Times reports that a new poll indicates Europeans identify the U.S. as the greatest threat to global stability (36 percent). Iran and China come in second and third.
I’d bet the madman in N. Korea doesn’t even make their list. Just shows to go you what insanity we have to deal with on this planet when power crazed Red Chinese spending every dime they make on advanced weapons and religious fanatics building nuclear bombs get the thumbs up.
It’s a damn good thing Kerry didn’t make the cut last election or we’d be nuked by now. But then we’d be popular again wouldn’t we? The world loves a weak and bleeding to death United States. Witness 9-11, everybody felt sorry for us until we hit them back then it was back to America bashing business as usual. This country will never be safe until the Filthy Left Wing of the Democratic Party is laid to rest.
June 19th, 2006 at 9:45 amChinese spending every dime they make on advanced weapons and religious fanatics building nuclear bombs get the thumbs up.
Comment by I-RIGHT-I — June 19, 2006 @ 9:45 am
Yes, that would nicely define the Bush Regime. First thing you’ve said that was rational :)
June 19th, 2006 at 9:48 amIt’s a damn good thing Kerry didn’t make the cut last election or we’d be nuked by now.Comment by I-RIGHT-I — June 19, 2006 @ 9:45 am
By whom? You know that it takes 10 years to make one, right? This is only the second year of Bush’s second stolen term. You need to your run the math again… Perhaps this time without the intense paranoia?
June 19th, 2006 at 9:52 amEuropeans identify the U.S. as the greatest threat to global stability (36 percent). Iran and China come in second and third.
I think that demonstrates how unhinged the Europeans have become due to biased coverage. Iran is basically the most destabilizing thing in the world at the moment, with the EU and the US trying to work something out with them. Let’s not even start mentioning nuclear North Korea or “watch how many weapons we can buy from Europe” China. Oh well. When Iran starts threatening Europe with nuclear missiles, we’ll see who they come crying to.
June 19th, 2006 at 9:54 am“A federal judge “signaled that he was inclined to rule against Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA) and a bipartisan group of House leaders as they challenged the constitutionality of an FBI raid on the Louisiana Democrat’s office last month.—
Good for them! The Democrats voted to strip Rep. Jefferson of his committee seat in the House Ways and Means committee. The Democratic leadership is against the “culture of corruption”. The Republicans had to be forced to have Rep. DeLay removed from his leadership post.
Just goes to show you that the “culture of corruption” has found a very warm reception by the Republican party, and they show no signs of repudiating that label. God help the United States if the corrupt Republicans continue to spread their calumny and mendacity.
June 19th, 2006 at 9:55 amyeah who cares what Europe thinks. this is not a damn popularity contest. I hope Europe thinks about how America saved it’s ass from Hitler .Within the next 10 years Europe will be begging America to come save it from Muslim extremists adn then we will see how popular America is.
June 19th, 2006 at 9:56 amI don’t believe for one second most Americans want to withdraw from Iraq. I think it is better to fight the terrorists on their own soil than here in America. All the liberals that think Bush is bad will geta suprise when they have to live under Muslim rule.
Wow, now Think Progress’ “spam filter” is eating up my posts. How convenient.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:01 amI think it is better to fight the terrorists on their own soil than here in America.
Comment by moonbat patrol
Geez, is someone selling a wind-up doll which walks in circles babbling the above talking point?
I am so tired of hearing the “we’ll fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here” crap.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:04 amHistory Lesson #1:
Without the French to aid the American Patriots in their Revolutionary battle, there would be no America. We owe a part of our independence to the FRENCH. Helping them in WWII was the least we could do.
Interesting fact: The Nazi’s used to cheer for themselves too, while saying the hell with the rest of the world. Look where that took them….
June 19th, 2006 at 10:05 amEuropeans identify the U.S. as the greatest threat to global stability
Ken Livingston Londons mayor says:
“The greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen”.
I AGREE RIGHT ON KEN
June 19th, 2006 at 10:05 amPardon talk for Libby begins
June 19th, 2006 at 10:06 amSOURCE
FYI you guys, Sharon Cox posted this early this morning:
Zookeeper, sorry so slow getting back at ya. High cold winds off and on here last two day’s, just a little sunshine. Huge gusts took out the neighbors vinal sun room. Several of us managed to rescue it before it was ripped and bent to pieces. Had to dismantel it totaly. The weather system has probably gone to your area by now.
I’ve decided after a couple of day’s back at TP I’m bailing..Will miss your posts and may viset from time to time but it’s lost my intrest with all the derailing, huge name calling, lengthy, repetitive blather by the new trolls are a total wast of my time and at my age there isn’t enough of it left to waste. As I said I will miss some of the good posters like you, Unbelievable, Marie and others but I’m going to concentrate on active positive change for our country. May try and check out a few other sites….In general I am going to get ready for the revolution and trying to save our people and the inviroment……Blessings to you all.
Comment by Sharon Cox — June 19, 2006 @ 2:43 am
So she’s going to check in from time to time, and not to worry. Thought I’d let you know. I know I’ll miss her, she’s a great loss to this site. We should get ourselves back on track.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:10 amunbelievable,
You know that it takes 10 years to make one, right?
No it doesn’t. Making a nuclear weapon isn’t like baking a cake, dear. You can make one in 1 month if you have the equipment you need to do so. Hell, even a week if you have enough equipment.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:16 amZoo,
I saw that. I hate to see her go. I think her leaving gives one less voice in here to the progressives – which is not what we need in this battle against the extremists who want to shut us all up.
Being silent isn’t winning us any battles… We need to be more vocal than ever.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:19 amI can’t believe it. MSNBC just had a “Breaking News” report. Naturally, I turn around to see what’s going on. It turns out that chunckhead football player who wiped out his motorcycle a week ago has now been charged with, I don’t know, being a chunkhead or something. In this day and age, how is THAT “Breaking News?” Maddening.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:20 amquote:Interesting fact: The Nazi’s used to cheer for themselves too, while saying the hell with the rest of the world. Look where that took them….
June 19th, 2006 at 10:20 amwhy is it the left in this country always uses the “nazi card” to provide analogy to America?? The nazis have alot more in common with today’s radical left than anyone else since the third reich. From anti- smoking laws to gun control to speech codes under the guise of political correctness to abolishment of religion and demonizing opponents the new left is the new reich.
You are going to try to preach American history to me?!?! That is another thing that is dangerous about today’s far left fringe- re-writing history to suit themselves and their cause. Yeah the french did not want the war with iraq because they were selling hussein weapons and the UN did not want to get rid of Hussein because Kofi Anon and his cahrming sun were making money from the food for oil deal.
as far as the muslim terrorists not fighting on our soil two words tot eh historically ignorant- September 11………..
but I guess those 3000 Eichmans had it coming right? Sad that you can remember 2500 of our troops dead fighting for our fredom but you conviently forget 3000 innocent people killed on AMERICAN SOIL .
Prove it Seixon. Prove your nonsense.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:21 amTHose who think a nuclear weapon can be made in the span of weeks, must get themselves educated.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:21 amBeing silent isn’t winning us any battles… We need to be more vocal than ever.
Comment by unbelievable
I agree, but I also believe actions speak louder than words.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:22 amMarie,
I said, if you had enough equipment you could do it. Why does everyone always drop qualifiers around here? Sheesh.
unbelievable,
Prove it Seixon. Prove your nonsense.
Well apparently the German intelligence service seems to think it can be done in less than three years:
Here’s a glance back into the past, long forgotten by *cough* some people *cough*:
Whaaaa??!?! But I thought Bush lied! *Snicker*
There is no set time period it takes to make a nuclear weapon. If you think that 10 years is the required time, I’m afraid you’ll have to provide evidence that making a nuclear weapon is like baking a cake, having to wait a set amount of time for it to get done in the oven.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:25 amIn this day and age, how is THAT “Breaking News?†Maddening.
Comment by Zookeeper — June 19, 2006 @ 10:20 am
Because, as I learned this weekend, the average american doesn’t understand basic math, science, history, geography or logic. Just bodiliy functions and name calling. Apparently, they get angry when their football game gets interrupted with fact-based news. But interruptions for nonsense are perfectly legit. It’s all they understand.
What’s appalling to me is the number of kids who don’t read. I have a friend who is a special education teacher for behavior disorder kids. Since the kids are integrated into regular classrooms with other kids, she gets to compare. She teaches English. She was telling me that not only do her Special Ed kids not read, but most kids don’t read. Not even on subjects they like. Not a good sign…
June 19th, 2006 at 10:27 amI agree, but I also believe actions speak louder than words.
Comment by Zookeeper — June 19, 2006 @ 10:22 am
As do I, but unfortunately we are in a small minority. Most of America thinks that silence equals aquiescence… That unless you say you disagree and why, you must agree. We have to stop agreeing with our silence. It’s not working.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:30 amSeixon – I said PROVE it, not tell me what one obscure source thinks can happen. You’ve proven nothing, yet again. Stop wasting our time with your extremist speculations.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:33 amunbelievable,
What’s appalling to me is the number of kids who don’t read.
Then you should be appalled by yourself, who has refrained from reading the science study I linked you to about a million times already. It seems you are stuck on basic science, while the rest of us can easily see that the Sun isn’t as simple as a few atoms of helium and hydrogen.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:33 amActually, Sexion is right. If you have the proper equipment and nuclear materials, you can make a bomb in as little as a week.
The only thing is that Iraq does not have the correct equipment to make the material needed to make a bomb.
Iraq was able enriched uranium to about 10% in a lab setting. That means they can make about 1 tenth of one gram every couple of weeks, if that’s all they do in the lab. His equation requires that Iraq have access to equipment that they simply don’t have.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:35 am#20, I don’t think Sharon is going to be silent. As she said, she is going to use her voice elsewhere. I can’t say I blame her.
While this is a good place to sound off, it is of limited impact. And it’s a place to learn. I learned yesterday how quickly and visciously a couple of posters can be when they perceive even the slightest misstatement. Yet when I finally had the time to reply in depth, they became silent.
That’s how it is in public life as well. One faction will either sieze on a slight misstatement, or twist a statement to suit its ends, then pounce in sound bytes. A coherent response is, of necessity lengthy and never makes it to the public.
We’re a nation of sound bytes
Cut and run
Tax and spend
Stay the course
No new taxes
War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength
Slavery is Freedom
June 19th, 2006 at 10:40 amThere are 67 known elements on the surface of the sun.
Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, comprising of more than 90 percent of it.
The war in Iraq is a loser and should have never been started in the first place. Idiots with a few stupid ideas about war should never be allowed to say one word about how it is waged and won. They don’t have a clue. Those idiots are the likes of Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz of Arabia, Donald “I’m gonna shake the hand of Saddam Hussein” Rumsfeld, and another idiot named Douglas Feith. Dick Cheney is another meathead who never donned a uniform.
When you see any of these folks and others of their ilk, run the other direction as fast as you can. They have no heart. They have no soul. They’re nuts. They do nothing but lie and spread vicious propaganda against people who know better (Cindy Sheehan). Don’t believe a single word that they utter from their biscuit traps. All they do all day long is lie.
Ask anybody.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:43 amunbelievable,
Seixon – I said PROVE it, not tell me what one obscure source thinks can happen. You’ve proven nothing, yet again. Stop wasting our time with your extremist speculations.
You have just called the German intelligence agency BND an “obscure source” and “extremist speculation”. Wow. Just wow. How about you prove it takes 10 years to make a nuclear weapon? There is no set time it takes, and I’d love for you to explain why it supposedly takes exactly 10 years…. lol.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:44 amActually, Sexion is right. If you have the proper equipment and nuclear materials, you can make a bomb in as little as a week.
Ouch. Another “extremist speculation” eh unbelievable? What a joke.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:46 amIt took J. Robert Oppenhiemer a lot less than ten years to build and detonate the first atom bomb at Trinity.
Of course, there aren’t people on this earth anymore with a heart and a soul who are running things. The only people left who are running the show are just plain nuts.
I say let them go. Let them do things as they see fit. Their day of reckoning is what should worry them. Instant Karma will get them.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:51 am‘Wash Post’ Obtains Shocking Memo from U.S. Embassy in Baghdad
By Greg Mitchell
Published: June 18, 2006
Ethnic cleansing means genocide.
This was a foreseeable consequence of invading Iraq. These killings aren’t from terrorists nor insurgents. These are ethinc groups in a blood feud that has spanned centuries. We helped put one group in power when we supported Saddam Hussein. He put a halt the the feud by killing hundreds of thousands of the opposition. Now that Saddam’s reign is over, and there is no effective police power of the state, the feud continues. And the surpressed groups want their blood revenge.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:52 amThen you should be appalled by yourself, who has refrained from reading the science study I linked you to about a million times already. It seems you are stuck on basic science, while the rest of us can easily see that the Sun isn’t as simple as a few atoms of helium and hydrogen.
Comment by Seixon — June 19, 2006 @ 10:33 am
I can’t read a blank page.
I’m more appalled by your lack of reading comprehesion. You can’t grasp that 6 year olf data makes a study, no matter how recently it was written, obsolete.
A few atoms of helium and hydrogen? A few? Thanks for showing your stupidity all on your own. Go consult that astrologer again, would ya?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:00 amSeixon,
On average, it takes years for a country like Iraq to make a bomb because they don’t have the resources. We were talking about Iraq. You’re trying to apply ‘coulds’ to a country of limited capabilities and then use it as an absolute.
You’re not offering anything of value to any of these threads. It’s partly why KOS banned you, and if you keep this up, TP will be next.
You made the claim, you prove it. So far, all I see from you is a lot of snippets of speculative information out of context. Not even slighly impressive. No wonder you yell and talk a lot about nothing. Because you don’t have a clue as to what you’re saying.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:06 am#32 – you got that right. I think the problem for progressives is our ability to think through the issues – see all sides of any given idea, in which it takes full explanations, not merely three word phrases. The extreme right, or the people who are still bent on supporting the bush regime, can only handle little sound bites. I believe they have never evolved, and are not living their lives, they have no life. Therefore they are left with nothing except to attack their opposition.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:21 amunbelievable > I took my elderly parents to Stone Mountain park yesterday and they had a blast! The lazer show has gotten better with some new songs at the beginning and more fireworks too!
June 19th, 2006 at 11:23 amJay,
Glad you had a nice time. I spent a lot of summers there in my youth. It seems to have changed a lot though. But I’m glad they are still doing the laser show. It must be 25 years years ago that they started it.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:33 amunbelievable,
I can’t read a blank page.
Why is it only blank for you? Don’t you have Acrobat or Reader installed? Aren’t you able to view PDF documents? There’s no excuse for not reading that document, it’s there and everyone else seems able to read it. Other than those who need an excuse not to read it. Such as you.
I’m more appalled by your lack of reading comprehesion. You can’t grasp that 6 year olf data makes a study, no matter how recently it was written, obsolete.
The data isn’t 6 years old, you complete and utter liar. I am astonished at how much you can just sit there and lie without any qualms about it. You haven’t read the study, yet you claim to know how old the data in it is. How’s that work? Psychic? The part I excerpted was referencing other studies about a topic, that was not referencing the data used. You lie, and lie, and lie to avoid the truth.
A few atoms of helium and hydrogen? A few? Thanks for showing your stupidity all on your own. Go consult that astrologer again, would ya?
That’s what YOU compared the Sun to LOL. You said that a few atoms of hydrogen and helium do this or that through nuclear fusion, and therefore the Sun must be getting colder and smaller. YOU compared the Sun, yes the massive Sun, to an example involving a few atoms of hydrogen and helium. So the only person looking dumb here is you, after lying about the study I presented about a million times now.
On average, it takes years for a country like Iraq to make a bomb because they don’t have the resources. We were talking about Iraq. You’re trying to apply ‘coulds’ to a country of limited capabilities and then use it as an absolute.
You lie again! Where were we talking about Iraq?? You stated point blank: “You know that it takes 10 years to make one, right?” There was nothing about Iraq or any other country in that statement. You said it as a general statement. Now you’re lying to cover up your complete ignorance. I never applied it to Iraq at all, your premise was that it takes 10 years to make a nuke, period.
You got busted for your ignorance, now you’re playing your evasion games again. Pathetic.
You’re not offering anything of value to any of these threads. It’s partly why KOS banned you, and if you keep this up, TP will be next.
Let me just excerpt the email from georgia10 who actually is partly in charge at DailyKos, and to show that you are once again just making stuff up as you go along:
So would you please shut the hell up about something that doesn’t involve you one bit? Can you stop your incessant lying?
You made the claim, you prove it. So far, all I see from you is a lot of snippets of speculative information out of context. Not even slighly impressive. No wonder you yell and talk a lot about nothing. Because you don’t have a clue as to what you’re saying.
OK, so now after saying that it would take “years” for a country like IRAQ to make a nuke, you’re back to pretending that you know more about making nukes than the German intelligence agency.
Democrat Soldier, no friend of mine, has already commented that I am right, and you are wrong. Again. Get a clue. There is no set amount of time it takes to make a nuke, much less 10 years.
If you still stand by your statement that it takes 10 years to make a nuclear weapon, period, then prove it yourself. I have already given proof from the German intelligence agency that it is possible within three years. On your side, you have nothing to back up your 10 years claim.
Who should we believe, the German intelligence agency, or you? Hmmm.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:35 am#43 – THe only thing you have not proven is that the proper equipment is available to build the bomb in question.
Iraq has been found to NOT have the capability to build a bomb at all within 10 years. Are you talking about a specific country, or just any country in general?
June 19th, 2006 at 11:42 amPresident Bush sets off for a “very quick†trip through Europe tomorrow. Ahead of his departure, the Financial Times reports that a new poll indicates Europeans identify the U.S. as the greatest threat to global stability (36 percent). Iran and China come in second and third.
What do you expect when you have a pretend cowboy who has never grown up running the show
According to a Pentagon spokesman, three remaining U.S. reporters were banned from Guantanamo Bay last week because reporters had threatened to sue if the Americans were allowed to stay. According to one of those reporters, the Pentagon lied.
The Pentagram would never lie, they are above board on everything right?
Despite his promises to push for lobbying reform, some House conservatives still doubt House Majority Leader John Boehner’s (R-OH) commitment: “With this leadership, we never will get rid of earmarks.â€
The system is heavily entrenched, change will only occur when the people force it to happen
The Washington Post obtained a “sensitive†cable from the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice outlining the “the daily-worsening conditions for those who live outside the heavily guarded international zone: harassment, threats and the employees’ constant fears that their neighbors will discover they work for the U.S. government.â€
Why do Iraqi’s hate Democracy?
In an effort to crack down on employers who hire undocumented workers, the “Homeland Security Department also is seeking access to Social Security Administration records of workers whose numbers and names don’t match — access that has long been blocked by privacy concerns.â€
Good to see DHS actually doing something worthwhile
A federal judge “signaled that he was inclined to rule against Rep. William Jefferson (D-LA) and a bipartisan group of House leaders as they challenged the constitutionality of an FBI raid on the Louisiana Democrat’s office last month.†The judge said he was “not sanguine about the argument advanced by Mr. Jefferson’s attorney and the House counsel.â€
Maybe Congress will wake up to the fact that Americans’ Constitutional rights are, at the least, threatened.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein indicated her desire to introduce a resolution in the Senate this week that would call for a phased withdrawal of troops from Iraq, an amendment based on the Strategic Redeployment plan laid out by the Center for American Progress. “I don’t know why we are so afraid to stand up and say, ‘look, we want to see an end to this thing’,†she said.
Don’t be afwaid Dems, you can do it, start with baby steps.
“An environmental disaster is brewing in the heartland of Iraq’s northern Sunni-led insurgency, where Iraqi officials say that in a desperate move to dispose of millions of barrels of an oil refinery byproduct called ‘black oil,’ the government pumped it into open mountain valleys and leaky reservoirs next to the Tigris River and set it on fire. The resulting huge black bogs are threatening the river and the precious groundwater in the region.â€
Environmental concerns are higher up on the hierarchy of needs when your just trying to live through each day
Over the weekend, pro-whaling nations won a razor-thin International Whaling Commission vote to declare that “the moratorium on commercial whaling was meant to be temporary and is no longer needed.â€
Lets hope that Star Trek movie doesn’t turn out to be the case, we may need whales for something other than killing them.
And finally: Eddie Favre, the mayor of Bay St. Louis, Mississippi and a “distant cousin of Green Bay Packers quarterback and Mississippi native Brett Favre,†has said he is “not shedding his Bermuda shorts until his city is back on its feet.†“Until you make us whole, I’m wearing short pants,†Favre says. “Somebody is going to get stuck with these ugly legs.â€
Get used to those shorts, it’ll be a while. TP should follow up in a few months and see if he still has his short pants on
June 19th, 2006 at 11:46 amDemocrat Soldier,
We’re not talking about Iraq or any nation in particular. unbelievable claimed, without qualification, that it takes 10 years to make a nuclear weapon. That is false.
If we’re going to talk about countries specifically, then I don’t even see why we are bringing up Iraq at all. We took all their equipment away from them. Iran is the threat with nukes, and how long it takes them to make a nuke depends on a whole variety of factors. If they manage to leap some of the hurdles they have, they could easily make a nuke in less than 10 years.
Meanwhile, dupes like unbelievable think that you put a nuclear weapon recipe in the oven and then the ringer says Pling! ten years later. LOL.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:46 amYour post had the dates the data was gathered. Except one, all were done in 2000. That’s not lying, it’s pointing out the flaws in your argument. Since your argument is based on old data, it makes your ONE article out-dated.
I think you are confusing the sun’s role in the exaserbation of the CO2 we’ve put there with the sun itself warming. Not the same thing at all. But, you can’t see that because you don’t understand the stuff you are talking about.
No one is taking you seriously Seixon. Because you respond with attacks and jibberish just to hear yourself talk.
If you really wanted to have a discussion, you’d discuss and stop throwing tantrums when people disagree with you.
Good luck with that.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:48 amOK lets argue over how long it takes to make a nuke, who here really knows this, apparently Seixon thinks he does, which would make him a terrorist.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:49 amWe were talking specifically about Iraq Seixon, stop twisting it. We were talking about Iraq. Period.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:50 amapparently Seixon thinks he does, which would make him a terrorist.
Comment by For Truth — June 19, 2006 @ 11:49 am
LOL!
IRI was talking specifically about Iraq, and my comment was in response to that. But right-wing Nazis are extremists, so clearly I had to be talking about all scenarios, since one-size-fits-all to them… LOL.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:53 am# 46 Seixon:
I’m with you dude,you blew unbelievable out of the water with your argument.
June 19th, 2006 at 11:58 amAnd where are her clique of cult syncophants who were nipping at your heels yesterday?
Guy from Norway > You post in here all day and then go drinking at night > so is the booze to try to wash away all the lies you tell on TP threads? You could have come on TP like a regular person and told us about the scenery of Norway, or the art museums, or the restaurants, or something else of interest, but instead you tell us all about your boozing at bars/clubs?
June 19th, 2006 at 12:00 pmSeixon: Then you should be appalled by yourself, who has refrained from reading the science study I linked you to about a million times already. It seems you are stuck on basic science, while the rest of us can easily see that the Sun isn’t as simple as a few atoms of helium and hydrogen.
The issue is that really no one here has the background to judge that study. You really have to defer to the scientists working in the field to put it in context. And these people overwhelmingly sign on to the consensus: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=86
All you have to do is read the IPCC and NAS report summaries to see this. These people are not chimps.
Academics hotly debate all sorts of things. But whether an academic debate matters for policy decisions is something else altogether.
Does solar forcing affect 0% (likely) or 40% (very unlikely) of the observed warming? It may be “hotly debated,” but does it affect whether we should take meaningful action? No. The risks are still there no matter which position you take.
“Uncertainty,” “controversy,” “debate” within the scientific community does not necessarily mean anything, policywise. The question is, what’s uncertain, and what are the implications of that uncertainty.
It’s very easy to say there’s some sort of raging debate somewhere and this is evidence that the whole thing’s uncertain. It’s a rhetorical strategy designed to confuse.
Physicists debate whether there are gravity particles involved in the phenomenon of gravity. It’s “hotly debated”. Does this controversy mean that Newton’s laws of gravity are about to be overthrown? Apples fall up into the sky?
Maximum doubt, maximum uncertainty, maximum debate. It’s an easy tactic. It worked for the tobacco companies for quite a while…
June 19th, 2006 at 12:03 pmSybil > who else have you been on TP? E-coli or Denny or I-R-I or another one of the trolls?
June 19th, 2006 at 12:03 pmAnd where are her clique of cult syncophants who were nipping at your heels yesterday?
Comment by Sybil — June 19, 2006 @ 11:58 am
Working – unlike you. Do you ever work? Or just lie and make-up really bad insults?
June 19th, 2006 at 12:09 pmPhysicists debate whether there are gravity particles involved in the phenomenon of gravity. It’s “hotly debatedâ€. Does this controversy mean that Newton’s laws of gravity are about to be overthrown? Apples fall up into the sky?
Comment by JJ — June 19, 2006 @ 12:03 pm
Excellent point!
Global AWrming is causing all kinds of things we now have to deal with. We can either continue to be a part of the problem or find a solution to deal with the ramifications of temperature increases. The difference seems to be that the right refuses to act repsonsably – and instead wants to debate nonsense instead of being pro-active. And I think that is the part that is the biggest problem. Unltil we can admit we have a problem, how can we fix it?
June 19th, 2006 at 12:14 pmI’m just glad I’ll be able to live my life long dream of having deep-fried whale for dinner.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:36 pmIt’s humbacktacular!
June 19th, 2006 at 12:37 pmBeluga-riffic!
June 19th, 2006 at 12:39 pmMy name is Matt, and I work for the Lee Harris for Memphis campaign in the Tennessee 9th District.
Lee would support Feinstein. He believes that we should target a timeframe for bringing our troops home from Iraq. It is time to put an end to this war.
If anyone is interested in learning more about Lee, you can check out his website at http://www.leeharrisformemphis.com
June 19th, 2006 at 12:44 pmunbelievable,
Seriously, I’ve had it with you. Your willingness to lie without end shows that there’s no debating with you. The study data is not from 2000, nor was the research conducted in 2000. Either you are unable to read, or you are being dishonest.
If you really wanted to have a discussion, you’d discuss and stop throwing tantrums when people disagree with you.
Coming from the person who called the German intelligence agency “obscure” and “extremist speculation”…. LOL.
We were talking specifically about Iraq Seixon, stop twisting it. We were talking about Iraq. Period.
No, we were not. Anyone can read above the truth. Let me repeat it again, for those who can’t bring themselves to do it, such as yourself:
We were talking about Iraq? No we weren’t. You even asked “by whom” when IRI said we would have gotten nuked. Then you said it would take 10 years to make a nuke. You didn’t say who or which country. LIAR.
Working – unlike you. Do you ever work? Or just lie and make-up really bad insults?
I thought you were a science teacher… School on a weekend? During the middle of June? Interesting.
JJ,
The issue is that really no one here has the background to judge that study.
I guess that explains unbelievable’s incessant attempts to undermine, suppress and misrepresent it… LOL.
It’s very easy to say there’s some sort of raging debate somewhere and this is evidence that the whole thing’s uncertain. It’s a rhetorical strategy designed to confuse.
Yes, I’m sure the Finnish scientists were scheming to confuse everyone with their diabolical statement that the Sun’s role in global warming is intensely debated. Yup, you’re hot on the trail buddy.
Physicists debate whether there are gravity particles involved in the phenomenon of gravity. It’s “hotly debatedâ€. Does this controversy mean that Newton’s laws of gravity are about to be overthrown? Apples fall up into the sky?
What a apples and oranges comparison, if I ever saw one. You bait and switch here completely. It’s intensely debated what role the Sun plays in climate, but that doesn’t mean that the warming hasn’t happened, no. What a hack attempt.
Maximum doubt, maximum uncertainty, maximum debate. It’s an easy tactic. It worked for the tobacco companies for quite a while…
Yup, the tobacco companies and evil Finnish scientists. Scheming to lie to the world. Mwahaha! I never knew Finnish scientists were so evil! Thanks for setting me straight guys.
June 19th, 2006 at 12:50 pmI’m not saying anything about Finnish scientists. I’m talking about the IPCC, the NAS, and people that who favor spinning instead of realistic discussions.
And I’m talking about implications for policy. The case for solar forcing is weak on many counts. But even if it were as strong you think your studies suggest, this still means that we need to do more than we’re doing now.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:04 pmI’m just glad I’ll be able to live my life long dream of having deep-fried whale for dinner.
Comment by Wilco — June 19, 2006 @ 12:36 pm
Isn’t whale predominantly blubber by necessity of it’s artic environment?
So fried fat? I’ll pass..
June 19th, 2006 at 1:06 pmAnd by weak, I mean really weak. No matter what your astrologers tell you:
Solar forcing:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=171
CO2:
June 19th, 2006 at 1:10 pmhttp://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=3458&method=full
Seriously, I’ve had it with you.
LOL. Can’t stand the truth huh? Not surprised.
Your willingness to lie without end shows that there’s no debating with you. The study data is not from 2000, nor was the research conducted in 2000. Either you are unable to read, or you are being dishonest.
No, Seixon, I wasn’t lying, you just don’t understand citations. Those bracketed references were to studies conducted in 2000. I’m not lying. You just can’t read a reference.
No, we were not. Anyone can read above the truth. Let me repeat it again, for those who can’t bring themselves to do it, such as yourself:
So you know what was in IRI’s head and what was in mine? No. He said Iraq and I responded to Iraq. Don’t tell me what I meant. You don’t know. Iraq was the context. You showed up and tried to make it an absolute that was neither implied nor intended.
I thought you were a science teacher… School on a weekend? During the middle of June? Interesting.
I was a Science teacher. School ended May 26th. I am on break. I will be teaching architecture in the Fall at a Charter school.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:15 pmJJ,
I’m not saying anything about Finnish scientists. I’m talking about the IPCC, the NAS, and people that who favor spinning instead of realistic discussions.
Yes, and has the IPCC done much research on the Sun’s effects? Nope. Conveniently sidelined, just like Dr. Gray.
And I’m talking about implications for policy. The case for solar forcing is weak on many counts. But even if it were as strong you think your studies suggest, this still means that we need to do more than we’re doing now.
Like what, construct a Sun-blocking machine?
And by weak, I mean really weak. No matter what your astrologers tell you
You always seem to use the same sources for anything. Certainly you can see that you are always citing those who are the biggest backers behind the alarmist view of global warming?
When Finnish scientists write just a year or two ago that the effects of the Sun’s activity are hard to gauge and explain… I find it odd that people like you then claim that we know everything there is to know about it and that it is meaningless.
In other words, you’re asking me to ignore what these Finnish scientists are saying and just to “trust you” and your obviously biased sources. Sorry, but I’m not buying it. Especially with Al Gore out there pushing complete lies.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:18 pmGood, then STFU.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:23 pmunbelievable,
LOL. Can’t stand the truth huh? Not surprised.
Yeah, a study published in 2005 is six years old. Yup. unbelievable has the truth everyone. Get a life liar.
No, Seixon, I wasn’t lying, you just don’t understand citations. Those bracketed references were to studies conducted in 2000. I’m not lying. You just can’t read a reference.
LOL. Yes, they referenced other studies about the topics, not the data in them. What a riot. There’s dozens of references in that article, from all sorts of years. None of them are referencing data used in the actual study. The data they used was the most recent data available, and their research was done in 2004, not 2000. You are completely dishonest and too much of a coward to admit it.
You continue to claim that the document I linked to is blank, while everyone else can read it. What a complete and sad joke of a person you are.
So you know what was in IRI’s head and what was in mine? No. He said Iraq and I responded to Iraq. Don’t tell me what I meant. You don’t know. Iraq was the context. You showed up and tried to make it an absolute that was neither implied nor intended.
YOU ASKED “BY WHOM?” LOL. IRI never said Iraq! You lie and lie and lie and lie.
First you tried to get me to prove that a nuke could be made in less than 10 years, now that you see this position is untenable, you are pretending you didn’t say what you said! Magnificent! I seriously haven’t come across a person as dishonest and delusional as you in a long time.
“You know it takes 10 years to make a nuke, right?”
“No it doesn’t, you can make one sooner if you have what you need.”
“Prove it.”
“The German intelligence agency says so.”
“That’s obscure and extremist speculation.”
“Eh, no, it’s not.”
“Yes it is, you are wrong, you haven’t proved anything.”
“The German intelligence agency, hon.”
“OK, well, I didn’t even say that anyways! I was talking about Iraq!
“Eh, no you weren’t. You did not specify.”
“IRI said Iraq!”
“No he didn’t, you asked him which country he was talking about.”
“But, but… no!”
LOL
I was a Science teacher. School ended May 26th. I am on break. I will be teaching architecture in the Fall at a Charter school.
Got fed up with being a science teacher? I can understand, since you can’t even comprehend a science paper….
June 19th, 2006 at 1:37 pmMy sources: National Academy of Scientists. Scientists, those intemperate alarmists. They confirmed the results of the IPCC, the most rigorous peer reviewed body in the world.
I quote realclimate and heatisonline because they contain references to the best studies on the subject.
Who are your sources? Some Finnish scientists that neither you nor I have the background to judge.
Like what, construct a Sun-blocking machine?
You’ve been sleepwalking through this discussion. If 40% of the warming is solar forcing, which is extremely generous. (Probably I shouldn’t give you that much.) That leaves 60%. If you read the page of 9 CO2 signature studies, each of them independently show the signature of CO2 as an agent of warming. Where is the 60% coming from? Most likely CO2. Again, this is being extremely generous to your argument.
One more thing. I mentioned that Alaskan tundra was thawing for the first time in many thousands of years (I think it’s about 200,000). And their thawing coincided with our raising the CO2 levels worldwide by 30%. What are the chances, statistically speaking, that the sun heats up to thaw the tundra for the first time in all those years, conveniently just as we release all that CO2 ? It’s pretty damn low. Probably hundreds to one.
You always seem to use the same sources for anything.
Because based on what you’ve been posting I can’t believe that you’ve read them. Or if you did you didn’t get what they said. You certainly haven’t addressed them in any of your arguments.
Also, there are probably many people who are new to the discussion, and they need to get some context.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:46 pmSeixon can’t even read a bibliographical citation. Pretty much invalidates everything else he spouts…
Go Google those references, Seixon. I’m right. They are from 2000 data.
You should stick with what you know – booze.
June 19th, 2006 at 1:51 pmGood, then STFU.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — June 19, 2006 @ 1:23 pm
No such luck – that boy can run his mouth. Unfortunately he’s just running it on BS..
June 19th, 2006 at 1:54 pmYes, I think I’ve about had it with robotroll Seixon. I’m signing off this thread…
June 19th, 2006 at 1:57 pmunbelievable,
You are dishonest. That’s all you are. You know full well that those references are not citing the inclusion of data into the study, but merely references to topics discussed by those studies in the introduction of the paper.
Let’s just pretend that your dishonest misrepresentations of the study are correct, a study which you still claim you are unable to read because the Gods have smited your web browser, or something….
Why would data from 2000 be “out-dated” out of hand? It wouldn’t be, unless you provided a specific reason for that to be the case.
You see, you are so afraid of admitting what that study says, so instead you keep pretending it says something it does not, and that it is “out-dated”.
In fact, any study I would put forth would contain references to older studies, and you would continue to claim it to be “out-dated” in the perverse circlejerk science-hating process you have demonstrated for us.
In fact, here I will excerpt the entire section in the study on the data being used:
Try and lie some more now. You know you wanna.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:05 pmSo whats the motivation Sexion? To show us how smart you are? To convert liberals? To sell your blog?
June 19th, 2006 at 2:07 pmSo whats the motivation Sexion? To show us how smart you are? To convert liberals? To sell your blog?
Comment by For Truth — June 19, 2006 @ 2:07 pm
Yes, yes, and yes.
Except he’s not smart, isn’t converting anyone, and no one is going to his blog except to laugh at him.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:10 pmFor Truth,
To keep places like Think Progress honest and show highly brainwashed partisan people that they are being lied to and misled. It’s quite easy to do really, just show information and some people are able to wake the hell up. Others, however, are so brainwashed that they take a defensive position and start defending “mother”, in other words, Think Progress. This results in people attacking me personally, making up random allegations about me, and generally smearing me while avoiding discussion entirely.
I haven’t promoted my blog at all during these last threads, and don’t make a habit of doing so. I will only cite my blog if I have written something there that is relevant to the current topic of discussion. Brave souls go and read, while others like unbelievable make up excuses not to do so and pretend that they can’t see my arguments.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:12 pmTry and lie some more now. You know you wanna.
Comment by Seixon — June 19, 2006 @ 2:05 pm
Learn to read a citation Seixon, and then look up the word ‘liar’ in a dictionary to learn that I’m not lying but disputing. But first, you might wanna put out that fire in your pants.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:13 pmSeixon,
I don’t make excuses, I tell you flat out I don’t want to read your nonsense.
Plus, those who went yesterday came back and said most people who comment there hate you. No surprise. You’re the one who is dishonest. And a druink who can’t understand a basic citations…. LOL
June 19th, 2006 at 2:15 pmSeixon,
You seem pretty smart, why do you spend your faculties here? Maybe your most challenged by this blog? And you like a challenge?
June 19th, 2006 at 2:22 pmI think he’s just “challenged”. (Sorry, I know I said I logged off. I just couldn’t resist.)
June 19th, 2006 at 2:25 pmChallenged? No, not really, well not on substance anyways. Personal attacks are levid at me quite often here, and every other liberal blog. I don’t mind, only shows that the truth is scary and must be smeared at all costs.
I’d love it if some of the people here came on over to my blog to discuss things, but they are too cowardly to do so. Instead of those who cozy up in their little biased world, I go and seek out dissent and other opinions. I think that says a lot about me, and those here who attack me.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:25 pmlevied, that is. ;)
June 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pmSeixon,
It’s not convincing to call someone a liar when your nose is twelve feet long and your pants are on fire.
I’m not even reading your rants anymore. All you’re doing is repeating yourself anyway. Doesn’t make it anymore true if you say it over and over. At least not in here.
I’ve made my point. You can keep repeating yourself while failing to recognize that you cannot even read a citation iin a report or differentiate between an astrologer and an astronomer…
I think you’re wrong and you can’t stand it. Well, tough. Life isn’t fair. Someone will always dislike you or disagree with you. Why there are 36 different flavors of Baskin-Robbins ice cream and 16 different versions of the Bible…
June 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pm#45 – For Truth, always a hoot. I hope you do these as often as you can.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pmunbelievable,
See, what did I say? I will stop repeating the proof that you have lied, since it appears you will never own up to it. Anyone can read the study and see that you are lying. The data section says quite clearly what was used, and it was not the things you said. You know this, and can’t respond to anything I write because you have no legs to stand on.
Just like when I busted you on “Geophysical”, you never spoke of it again and never admitted you had been 100% wrong. Now even other people have said that the study is not “out-dated” and that it does say exactly what I said it says.
You are a pathological liar who cannot own up to it even when everyone else in the room knows it. I’d say that says a lot about you as a person, and whatever else you say here on TP. You haven’t demonstrated a single lie by me, yet I have demonstrated countless by you which you then failed to address because I nailed you.
Now I’ll leave you to suck your thumb in the fetal position you must be in from having your ass handed to you so thoroughly that you can’t even defend yourself anymore.
For those interested, unbelievable claimed that this study is “out-dated” and uses data from 2000:
http://cc.oulu.fi/~usoskin/personal/2004ja010964.pdf
It clearly isn’t “out-dated” and doesn’t use “out-dated” data. unbelievable is a pathological liar. Period. I’m done.
June 19th, 2006 at 2:58 pmSeixon,
I didn’t read your regurgitated nonsense, but I bet you said :
“I’m right! I’m always right! I am the Mighty and Powerful Seixon! Tell me I’m right or I will jump up and down and call you names while twisting everything you said to make me feel like I must be right since I cannot refute your facts!”
How’d I do?
June 19th, 2006 at 3:07 pmSome good posts, a lot of space taken up by brain dead drunks like bush. If TP wants to promote more dialogue and good ideas maybe the posts should be limited and constant duplication deleted or denied..Some who pass through here learn, others merly want to dominate and distroy….Hell, all we have to do is turn on the boob tube when the drunk druggie, decider is on to get this same waste of space drivel.. Thanks to the good posters..Booooooo to the far right drunks…
June 19th, 2006 at 3:14 pmBooooooo to the far right drunks…
Comment by a brief viset — June 19, 2006 @ 3:14 pm
Sounds like I nailed his rant. Thanks :)
Most days aren’t like this. One of the trolls just got banned from two other liberal blogs and came here to throw a temper tantrum. The others are just incapable of making an argument so they just fling insults.
TP has been known to delete lengthy posts, and they had to forbid image posting after that got out of control. Otherwise, I think the wisdom here out ranks the trolls…
June 19th, 2006 at 3:35 pmZookeeper,
I’ll try to keep it up on the comments with sarcasm and what not, but sometimes I’m just not available. :)
June 19th, 2006 at 4:03 pm[...] http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/19/thinkfast-am-june-19-2006/ [...]
June 19th, 2006 at 5:23 pm#33 – Ron,
June 19th, 2006 at 6:02 pmI believe that you are off by at least 40 elements in your conglomerate. While natural physics will generate elements up to 26 at the Sun’s solar mass, debris from more massive stars and a bit of nuclear trickery in the Sun itself have raised the mix up to element 108 or so. The more massive elements are short lived and occur by accident ( That means two atoms are accelerated by reactions in the Sun and produce massive atoms that last all of a few microseconds).
As for creating a nuclear weapon, one could go the entire gamut. A simple nuclear waste dispersal weapon could be created in about two or three hours. A truely dedicated individual could create an A-Bomb in about four hours with the proper machine tools and 25% enriched uranium. The down side is that the individual would expire before the bomb was detonated and radiation sickness is a painful way to go. Imagine how a lobster feels when it is dropped into boiling water. That is how one of my physics profs described his sensations when he picked up a “brick” of enriched uraniium in the aftermath of a research reactor event.
An H-Bomb is another matter as it requires a very well-timed detonation cycle. How Teller figured out the process is beyond me, even now when I understand it.
Excuse typos… I can’t read the text in my comment very well,and that coupled with bad typing skills doesn’t help… Sorry.
June 19th, 2006 at 8:51 pmBLA, BLA, BLA.
June 19th, 2006 at 10:48 pmComment by Seixon
That´s it, pal. Bore us to death.
Might not want to visit The Hague chimpy.
June 20th, 2006 at 1:29 am[...] ThinkFast AM: June 19, 2006Think Progress, DC - Jun 19, 2006… The Washington Post obtained a sensitive cable from the US Ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice outlining the … [...]
June 20th, 2006 at 11:20 am