Defense Department Disavows Santorum’s WMD Claims
Defense Department Disavows Santorum’s WMD Claims
Today, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) held a press conference and announced “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.” Santorum and Hoekstra are hyping a document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed.
Fox News’ Jim Angle contacted the Defense Department who quickly disavowed Santorum and Hoekstra’s claims. A Defense Department official told Angle flatly that the munitions hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are “not the WMD’s for which this country went to war.”
Fox’s Alan Colmes broke the news to Santorum. Watch it:
Transcript:
COLMES: Congressman, Senator, it’s Alan Colmes. Senator, the Iraq Survey Group — let me go to the Duelfer Report — says that Iraq did not have the weapons our intelligence believed were there. And Jim Angle reported this for Fox News quotes a defense official who says these were pre-1991 weapons that could not have been fired as designed because they already been degraded. And the official went on to say these are not the WMD’s this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had and not the WMD’s for which this country went to war. So the chest beating at this Republicans are doing tonight thinking this is a justification is not confirmed by the defense department.
SANTORUM: I’d like to know who that is. The fact of the matter is, I’ll wait and see what the actual Defense Department formally says or more important what the administration formally says.
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It is truly remarkable that Rick Santorum is called a Senator….perhaps that situation will be remedied before year’s end.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:47 pmali muhammad aszerajan el aheed farted the other day and it was relly stinky. This is proof positive that wmd have been found. There were people who could not stay in the same room.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:53 pmSanitarium’s face is extremely asymmetrical, symbolizing his twisted actions vs. what he says he stands for.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:54 pmDeny, deny, deny and then deny some more.
I did not have ______ relations with that _______nor do I remember_______ .
June 21st, 2006 at 10:55 pmSantorum being busted publically is like catching the supermodel with spinach in her teeth, the traffic court judge with toilet paper stuck to his shoe, or finding a cell phone in the urinal. Some things just feel right.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:55 pmun-f’in believable!!
How do supposedly intelligent people follow these nuts.
Someone please push the forward button.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:56 pmCOOL! You know that, when even the PENTAGON denies your claims, that yer goose is COOKED! All Hail (future) Sen. Bob Casey! I doubt even Karl Rove can save yer butt now!
June 21st, 2006 at 10:58 pmFret not, we’re only going to have to put up with that idiot for another 6 months.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:01 pmCool, while they’re doing that maybe they should get ALL the soldiers the helmet upgrade kits they need.
The cost of the kit is only 99 dollars for the Navy\Air Force kit, and 71 dollars for the Marine kit.
Buying one of these kits will rush a helmet upgrade kit straight to a GI in the field. These kits make the helmet capable of withstanding a much greater blast, increase the likelyhood of deflecting a bullet, and KEEP the helmet itself from smashing against the soldiers heads due to a large shock event.
Regardless of whether you support the war or not this site, set up by Cher, is saving young Americans NOW.
OPERATION HELMET
These upgrade kits have ALREADY saved many lives.
The troops will be coming home soon, we all know this. Lets bring as many of them home as possible.
Skip a night out at the bar or do give up some other minor luxury, just once, and the helmet upgrade kit you buy, just may be the next one that saves someones life.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:01 pmThe very last frame of the video shows a great view of Santorum. Thats the first time I have seen him talk, seems like an ass.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:02 pmAnd if you don’t have a hundred bucks to give, get off this blog and get a job.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:02 pmI saw the Senator’s presentation. I look forward to the absence of his presence in the U. S. Senate.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:04 pmI saw the Senator’s presentation. I look forward to the absence of his presence in the U. S. Senate.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:04 pmI look forward to the Senator’s absence in the Senate next year.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:06 pmWMD Found In Iraq!…
Well, at least that is what Rick Santorum and Captain’s Quarters want you to think. And it is all based on a *.pdf (signed by John Negroponte, of course) that says this:
June 21st, 2006 at 11:08 pm* Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions…
Sanatorium is a jackass.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:10 pmThis link will take you directly to the checkout form.
You can even pay with PAYPAL!!! They also take VISA, MC etc, and Checks.
But do it now.
HELP A SOLDIER COME BACK HOME ALIVE
Please guys, trolls, liberals, everyone. Just break down and buy ONE soldier a chance at coming back home to tell his story.
Do it now, cause God knows Congress doesn’t give a crap about them.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:11 pmSantorum would have to improve to become an idiot.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:12 pmLittle Ricky has driven a stake through the heart of what little was left of his political career.
We soon will not have Rick Santorum to push around anymore! (Thank the gods!)
June 21st, 2006 at 11:12 pmLook at those faces:
Santorum still doesn’t realize he was already leaving the Senate in disgrace in November, and now it’s so much worse.
Hoekstra has just realized he’s thrown in with an inadequate weinie, and he’ll be spending more time with the family in the fall.
Colmes is just giddy — I think — it’s hard to tell.
I just love public meltdowns of those who so richly deserve it.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:12 pmThey’re too busy passing flag burning and gay marriage bills to give a crap whether the young men they sent off into hell come home with their brains intact or not.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:13 pmCAPTION CONTEST!!!
June 21st, 2006 at 11:14 pmMy god, what is that thing on the far left frame?
The republicans Gimp.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:19 pmOnly now does he want to wait for the “official report from the Pentagon and most importantly the WhiteHouse”?
uh huh…
Don’t worry… we won’t be holding our collective breath for an apology over yet another LIE.
shame
Choose one Santorum:
Noun
June 21st, 2006 at 11:21 pmS: (n) shame (a painful emotion resulting from an awareness of inadequacy or guilt)
S: (n) shame, disgrace, ignominy (a state of dishonor) “one mistake brought shame to all his family”; “suffered the ignominy of being sent to prison”
S: (n) pity, shame (an unfortunate development) “it’s a pity he couldn’t do it”
Verb
S: (v) dishonor, disgrace, dishonour, attaint, shame (bring shame or dishonor upon) “he dishonored his family by committing a serious crime”
S: (v) shame (compel through a sense of shame) “She shamed him into making amends”
S: (v) shame (cause to be ashamed)
S: (v) shame (surpass or beat by a wide margin)
Let’s see, Two Senators read from a declassified document on the record, and you guys all have hard-ons about an unknown source at the Pentagon unwilling to go on the record by name and you call Santorum’s assertions crap? Get real.
Let this Pentagon source come forward, otherwise the declassified document trumps all of your spin.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:21 pmThen wait with your mouth shut.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:24 pmI’m surprised the Administration,working with part of the military,haven’t managed to plant some “evidence” of a WMD program.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:24 pmIt may happen yet.
Uh Pete?
I hate to burst your bubble, but..
Do you think if anyone had found any real Weapons of Mass Destruction, that the White House would be out squawking about it while every news channel in the world is broadcasting from the rooftops?
Get a grip dude.
You’re still in trouble.
Now shut up and go buy a soldier a helmet upgrade kit.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:25 pmCaption:
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with, um, me…
June 21st, 2006 at 11:26 pmComment by Pete
June 21st, 2006 at 11:28 pmOh, no. That would mean that your farts and bad breadth is another kind of “degraded” WMD.
#28 and #29
June 21st, 2006 at 11:30 pmI cant stop laughing.
Uhhh clubber I hate to burst YOUR bubble, but the weapons found were prohibited under relevant resolutions. Your ship is sinking and November is fast approaching.
Get over it. WMD is WMD.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:32 pmLet this Pentagon source come forward, otherwise the declassified document trumps all of your spin.
Comment by Pete
I detect an off-year flop sweat, with just a hint of whinyness.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:32 pmThe caption of the actual photo, in yellow passing letters: Serial Killer (s). I might add.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:33 pmNow, that is a good caption.
I detect an off-year flop sweat, with just a hint of whinyness.
Comment by Zookeeper
Let’s not bring the DNC talking points into this discussion mmmk?
June 21st, 2006 at 11:34 pmComment by Pete
June 21st, 2006 at 11:34 pmInsightful. You must be lecturing in MIT, I guess.
[...] UPDATE 3: Think Progress reports that “A Defense Department official told (Fox News’s Jim) Angle flatly that the munitions hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are “not the WMDs for which this country went to war.” [...]
June 21st, 2006 at 11:35 pm1 santorum = 6 years
June 21st, 2006 at 11:35 pmWMD is WMD.
Comment by Pete
Pete,
Degraded WMD are degraded WMD. Degraded, defunct, denied…Now, run along.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:35 pmSince when is the Defense Department an expert on WMDs?
June 21st, 2006 at 11:36 pmLet’s not bring the DNC talking points into this discussion mmmk?
Comment by Pete
Weak, damn that’s weak. Dismissed.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:37 pmFrom FOX’s website:
Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.
“This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991,” the official said, adding the munitions “are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
June 21st, 2006 at 11:37 pmThe best source on this is the Duelfer report from 2005 addendum.
“ISG assesses that Iraq and Coalition Forces will
continue to discover small numbers of degraded
chemical weapons, which the former Regime mislaid
or improperly destroyed prior to 1991. ISG believes
the bulk of these weapons were likely abandoned,
forgotten and lost during the Iran-Iraq war because
tens of thousands of CW munitions were forward
deployed along frequently and rapidly shifting battlefronts.
• All but two of the chemical weapons discovered
since OIF were found in southern Iraq where the
majority of CW munitions were used against Iran in
the Iran-Iraq war.”
So what we have here is 2 wankers coming on 1 year after this report, and repeating what the report already said and predicted.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:39 pmWeak, damn that’s weak. Dismissed.
Comment by Zookeeper
Oh well, if you say so.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:39 pm#42 – Ouch, that’s gonna leave a mark. :-D
June 21st, 2006 at 11:39 pmWMD is WMD.
Comment by Pete
Oh yea.
We’re all sitting here at home just sweating a Mustard Gas attack.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:40 pmThe MSM as well as the Busheviks have ignored an especially significant point regarding chemical weapons: THEY HAVE A SHELF LIFE. The stuff degrades over time so that eventually it becomes no more than toxic waste. You would not want to consume it, but the material is no longer a weapon. I heard this discussed just once some years ago on C-SPAN. All the chemical wapons from the 80’s and early 90’s that we “knew they had” has long since degraded. A while back our troops encountered one such mortar shell that was used as a (failed) IED. That was another incident that was trumpeted by the wingnuts as “proof” and, at the time, the shelf life issue was again ignored.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:40 pmDegraded WMD are degraded WMD. Degraded, defunct, denied…Now, run along.
Comment by Zookeeper
At the time those WMD’s were produced and hidden, they were required by law to be declared and destroyed.
Degradation is irrelevant.
Try again.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:41 pmWMD. Weapons that are capable of a high order of destruction and/or of being used in such a manner as to destroy large numbers of people.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:41 pmWell, how about high cholesterol, tobacco and TV?
We’re all sitting here at home just sweating a Mustard Gas attack.
Comment by CLUBBER WORFEUS
Ask the Japanese if there’s any wisdom in “sweating” a mustard gas attack.
How quickly the left forgets.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:42 pmLike I said Pete, when the Mustard Gas attack comes, we’ll call you and tell you to hold your breath.
Cool?
June 21st, 2006 at 11:43 pmAsk the Japanese if there’s any wisdom in “sweating†a mustard gas attack.
How quickly the left forgets.
Comment by Pete — June 21, 2006 @ 11:42 pm
Oh yea. That was a major disaster.
How many million were wiped out again?
June 21st, 2006 at 11:44 pmWhat?
It didn’t kill a millions?
Not even 1 million?
Oh.
Well how many thousands then?
:|
June 21st, 2006 at 11:46 pmAsk the Japanese if there’s any wisdom in “sweating†a mustard gas attack. How quickly the left forgets.
How moronic the right can be. The Japanese attack was sarin, not mustard gas.
At the time those WMD’s were produced and hidden, they were required by law to be declared and destroyed. Degradation is irrelevant.
Moron, these were pre-1991 at which time Iraq was not under the resolution.
And thats not what the Duelfer report said. They said that some old degraded shells had been found, probably left over from the Iran-Iraq war. Probably more of the same. These were not the WMDs that the iSG was looking for
June 21st, 2006 at 11:47 pmComment by Pete
I guess you didnt protest when US sold them to Hussein, right? And, as you are so fond of law, was that selling under the law?
Degradation is irrelevant.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:48 pmIf that was true, radioactive elements on Earth would not have allowed the development of life. Please, you were doing fine.
See Pete, in order for it to classify as Weapons of MASS destruction, then it needs to kill MASSES of people.
Not 30.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:49 pmmy goodness santorum’s an idiot
June 21st, 2006 at 11:51 pmI guess if they found a real big Anvil, like on the Road Runner cartoons you’d guys would label it as a WMD, right?
June 21st, 2006 at 11:53 pmAll of Iraq’s WMDs were destroyed….remember.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:53 pmSantorum seems to discover a new way to piss me off every day. I’m so glad I found a great way to relieve the tension: kick him in the face.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:55 pmYou are an idiot Jihadi.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:57 pmThats pretty good Houdinis Ghost.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:58 pm#4
What the hell does that have to do with the subject. Can you trolls at least focus and stay on point.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:01 am>>All of Iraq’s WMDs were destroyed….remember.
Yes, they were. See the link to the Iraq survey group above. These were forgotten, defunct shells.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:01 am#61 – Stupid dial-up. I’ll look at it tomorrow at work.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:02 amLook, if they can’t push a button and hit us with it in 20 minutes, its NOT WMD.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:06 amHey PETE, GUESS WHAT???
I found some WMD too!
They’re in North Korea, and they got your name on them.
Now go get em tiger.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:07 amThe actual defense department? As opposed to the fake one that fox calls up? Yeah.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:11 amGood old “Rapture Rick.” We may not know where he lives, but we know for sure what lengths he’ll go to to hand on to his “K-Street Servant” position.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:13 amTwo words for ya Pete:
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:13 amWord #1: INERT
Word #2: 1988
what a couple of dipshits. Ditto for Pete, mostly because I don’t like his tone.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:14 amThought for the day:
When someone asks you if you’re better off that you were four years ago, it’s entirely a post-9/11 question.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:15 am#69 jajajajaja.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:16 amNo I’m serious Pete.
I found some REAL WMD in North Korea.
THARS NUKES IN THEM THAR HILLS BOY!!!!
So come on. What are you tough talking John Wayne shoot from the hip cowboys gonna do to protect us from the WMD????
Thats ALL you ever talk about, so you’re gonna go get them, right????
I’m waiting.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:18 amPete, as long as we are following the law…..
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:21 amwhere was hannity during this exchange? what was he saying?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:25 ami read on another thread that he was all excited (wink wink) about this…
Pete,
Don’t pretend that you are a bigger asshole than you actually are.
WMD means weapon of mass destruction.
A shell with which you cannot kill large number of people, by logic, cannot be
WMD. A shell that is not usable as a weapon of mass destruction, by logic, is not a weapon of mass destruction.
Get it?
These shells are not WMDs because they are old, useless items containing degraded material that is simply not lethal enough to kill large number of people, or any number of people for that matter.
And noone in the Bush administration told us in 2002 that we would have to invade Iraq to find Iraq’s old degraded chemical shells that they produced
during the 80s and then they forgot. All right?
They claimed that we had to invade Iraq because they had a new, effective, deployable chemical, biological arsenal and an active nuclear program and all of that posed a huge threat to the US.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:29 amWhich was hogwash.
gringo
At the time these weapons were produced, they were required to have been declared and destroyed. UNDERSTAND. Or are you the asshole who’s actually the stupid one?
Ask Japan if a sarin shell’s contents are dangerous.
And I’m sorry to tell you guys, Sarin and mustard gas is a prhibited weapon of mass destruction and was listed under UN resolutions are weapons Iraq was not to be in posession of.
Holy shit. Mustard gas isn’t a WMD. You guys really need to go to school.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:39 amFor the record, I was in Japan, when the sarin gas attacks occurred on five subway cars. Twelve or thirteen people died, but hundreds more still suffer from the after-effects–some of them seriously so (ie. completely bedridden). It is said that just covering one’s mouth and nose with a damp hankerchief or face towel can prevent the worst effects.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:39 amPete would be excited if they found slingshots.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:40 ampete, you sound like a smug bastard. maybe you should go to Iraq and show us the wmd’s and stop hating people you’ve never met. so much hate fostered towards somebody is never a good thing. my advice is that you should stop watching Fox news, go to a bar and get at some sloppy hooker-sex, cause we know how you right-wingers love wierd sex … maybe go see a donkey show in mexico, you can do that easily now that Bush has NAFTA.
seriously, we’ve shitted on this region of the world long enough, don’t you think?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:42 amPete,
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:43 amI am a Democrat because I want smart people running shit. Your fox news mentality demonstrates that you are obviously not among the smart people. And yes, the lower case is deliberate. Lying slime like fox does not deserve the extra effort required to use the Shift key. I at least gave your name that courtesy.
Lora. I am not belittling the deaths or suffering of anyone. I am however SCOFFING at the ridiculous comparison by PissPot Pete here, who thinks that the Japan subway attacks somehow equate to “Weapons of Mass Destruction”.
I could kill more people with my PickUp Truck and a bottle of Jack.
100 people does not a “Masses” make.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:47 amHow the hell does Alan Colmes collect a Fox News paycheck and still sleep at night?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:47 amThere’s way more smug tone here and it sure isn’t me.
All the evidence of attempts to secure WMD is documented with UNMOVIC and the IAEA.
“It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them.”
Bill Clinton 1998
Keep up the Hussein apologetics guys.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:48 amPete,
I am a Democrat because I want smart people running shit.
Comment by thebob
Well, you must be disappointed a lot. If you guys are so smart, why do you keep losing. Kinda qualifies the intellect of the DNC don’t ya think?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:50 amEurasia, Eastasia does it matter who we’re at war with? just keep the fear coming, it keeps me in line and stops my thoughtcrime in its tracks.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:51 amahem…..Rick San-o-tarium perhaps?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:55 amMaybe he needs one?
and Democrats or Republicans, don’t matter. I think America can agree that corporations have hi-jacked the government, and the government let them do it. Corporations run the GOP, Bankers run the Dems. what we need is not bi-partisan politics, but tri-partisan, or even multi-partisan politics. Anybody who buys into the whole left/right ethos is a fool. We are all working men, we all get screwed by the same-old governmental body.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:55 ambtw the only way to win back America is finance reform.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:56 amPete,
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:56 amJust like fox is not news, “kinda” is not a word. You are so good at proving my point.
How the hell does Alan Colmes collect a Fox News paycheck and still sleep at night?
Comment by Charles — June 22, 2006 @ 12:47 am
Actually he doesn’t sleep. He’s dead.
The blood was drained from his body a long time ago, and his brain and Spinal System removed.
Then his frame was propped up with a broomstick shoved up his rump, and Sean Hannity sticks his hand in a hole drilled in the back of his skull, from where he works his mouth, and rolls his eyes around.
Fox felt he would seem more “lifelike” this way, and appear to have more of a spine then when he was alive.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:58 amKeep up the Hussein apologetics guys.
Comment by PissPot Pete — June 22, 2006 @ 12:48 am
No one is apologizing for Hussein you dimwit.
We’re just not as afraid of a bunch of dusty old leaky shell casings as you big, bad republicans apparently are.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:01 amI believe Santorum is just doing what he does to preserve his 97th ranking in he Senate. But I also believe living in Ohio I have the distinction of having two ranked in the bottom ten. And they don’t usually say stupid things like Santorum. However DeWines NSA proposal is a humdinger. It is to permit NSA to spy without FISA. For 45 days. Then if they tell Congress its OK. Or some stupid bullshit like that. Soon as he gets off the abortion kick and off the porch to run with the big dogs he falls on his ass. If we don’t have two of the lamest Senators this side of Oklahoma and north of Mississippi and Alabama I don’t know who does.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:17 am[...] Here is Santorum getting punked on Fox News by Alan Colmes (ht Think Progress): [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:25 am#85 Flavius,
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:31 amI didn’t think you were belitting the deaths and suffering of the victims of the sarin attack on the Tokyo subways. I merely wanted to set the record straight, as I was in Tokyo when it happened and am very familiar with the details. I was trying to take a neutral position.
August,
I’m buying what you’re selling. ( And I mean that is the most complimentary way!) It’s all about the $$$ !!!
t-mac
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:32 amSen. Santorum is a certified GOP lunatic and whoever supports or defends him as well!
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:35 amPete,
Just like fox is not news, “kinda†is not a word. You are so good at proving my point.
Comment by thebob
It’s always the failed-arguer who points to grammar. You can resume your mental slumber now.
BTW. Keep the rhetoric up. November’s looking really good if this is the best you guys can muster. Fox news? Holy shit. Every other media outlet is picking this up too, are they all in on the Fox News conspiracy?
I love reading the comments here, it’s very comforting.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:36 amWhy do Democrats continue to even vote on say the Iraq Resolution put forth by the GOP why didn’t they ALL abstain? It’s a non-binding vote anyway right?
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:37 amFurthermore, why don’t ALL the Democrats just simply refuse to opine on ANY Fox News
programming?
I will assure you if they ALL did such a thing it would not only bring major attention to the
GOP tactics but to the Fox News blatant bias as well.
My last point is after 911 Mr. Bush had the WHOLE world and the WHOLE of the USA
behind him now the World holds us in great disdain and the electorate in America is more
against as a majority almost all of the issues the President now espouses. So WHY can’t
we rationally BLAME him now for all the grave issues facing this nation?
So Rick has thrown down the ‘gauntlet’, has he? Loftily expecting BushCo to appear before him, with the ‘evidence’ to contradict his assertions? And he is even willing to wait for the response, but it had better be a ‘formal’ one! Dick Cheney is gonna slap the lips right off of his face for this one. Whoa.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:37 amThe shells had “To Saddam–Compliments of Ronald Reagan” stenciled on the side.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:40 amWhy do Democrats continue to even vote on say the Iraq Resolution put forth by the GOP why didn’t they ALL abstain? It’s a non-binding vote anyway right?
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:42 amFurthermore, why don’t ALL the Democrats just simply refuse to opine on ANY Fox News
programming?
I will assure you if they ALL did such a thing it would not only bring major attention to the
GOP tactics but to the Fox News blatant bias as well.
My last point is after 911 Mr. Bush had the WHOLE world and the WHOLE of the USA
behind him now the World holds us in great disdain and the electorate in America is more
against as a majority almost all of the issues the President now espouses. So WHY can’t
we rationally BLAME him now for all the grave issues facing this nation?
No doubt also signed by Donnie Rumsfailed. I wonder why scrotorum is rerunning the old GOP fake out WMD stuff now. I thought his focus was on Guns, Gays and God – but in GOP land it is never too late to do a fake news story on the fake news station FAUX news.
Watching the RETHUGlicans selfdestruct is at least entertaining.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:48 amSean Hannity, did today with this ‘The WMD have been found and Bush/the GOP are no vindicated’ nonsense what Fox News does to live and breathe. It’s a perfect example of the methods that they employ on a daily basis.
Fox News Executives, hosts and reporters have this philosophy and mission statement when it comes to reporting/covering the news:
* Even if we think it’s bullshit and even if we KNOW that it’s bullshit, we will throw it out there anyway to our viewers because we know damn well how dumb and gullible most of them really are and that they are willing to believe us without a doubt or question in their minds. So, we know that our lies and deceptions will be seen/heard as completely truthful and factual and will be perpetuated to all with whom they associate and used against those who disagree.
We will employ all means necessary to brand Democrats and any critic of this administration or ourselves for that matter, as un-American and as people that will destroy this country while branding this administration and their (our) supporters as true, patriotic Americans and the only thing standing between them (us) and tyranny.
We care less about our reputation as serious journalists, or as an establishment with any level of integrity or respect than we do our desire and ability to brainwash as many gullible people and those who can’t think for themselves as often as possible. The conservatives who can actually see through and recognize what we are doing and identify it as intense fabrication and pure propoganda, will still appreciate and encourage what we are doing. They insist and expect that we press forward with our mission and the tactics we use, nonetheless.
So, in the long run, we achieve our mission-to make our audience firmly believe and assert that everything the Bush Administration and the Republicans do is good and right and everything the Democrats do is bad and wrong. If anyone at Fox News strays from this mission, they will be terminated immediately.*
The new slogan Fox News has been using as of late?
“FOX NEWS: THE NETWORK AMERICA TRUSTS”
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:49 amRallying cry the last 3 years: “There are no WMDs in Iraq”.
Scratch that, new motto: “There are no post-1991 WMDs in Iraq.”
Please. A small Ricin program was found shortly after the war along with 2 shells containing nerve agent. I might have to consult Kos or Atrios, but those are WMDs. Not as much as Powerll claimed, but enough to sink the “No WMDs” canard promoted endlessly by those “searching for the truth”.
What is the next grand anti-war lie to fall? The fact that WMDs were the lone rationale given to remove Saddam’s regieme? Surely that meme can stand the test of time under the usual intense scrutiny from the avowedly conservative media.
And please, let the Defense Department speak for itself instead of massaging a quote into a regurgitated Kos talking point.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:55 ampost by T-Mac
August,
I’m buying what you’re selling. ( And I mean that is the most complimentary way!) It’s all about the $$$ !!!
I’m selling lemonade, good-old grandstand american-made lemonade. taste it … go ahead … it tastes like freedom. now buy some or i’ll scare the WMD’s out of you!!!!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:06 amWMDeeeez Nuuuuts!!!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:12 amLike I said earlier nimrod.
We found the weapons of mass destruction.
They’re in North Korea.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:12 amDoes Apple Computer Inc. pay this site to post clip only in the QuickTime format? Shame since 95% of computers users use a Windows-PC. Thank God for dual-formats at Crooks and Liars. I think Think Progress should offer full disclosure about your preference for QuickTime.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:15 am“Holy shit. Mustard gas isn’t a WMD. You guys really need to go to school.”
-Pete
According to my colleague who worked at Ft. Dietrick, mustard gas is not a WMD. In fact, no chemical weapons are WMDs. Most biological weapons are not even WMDs. Only nuclear, and human-human contagious lethal biological weapons are WMDs. Nuclear, chemical and biological weapons are classified together as NBCs.
Is this nitpicking? Sure, but not nearly as ridiculous as your nitpicking, Pete.
A shell which was loaded with a chemical that degrades no longer has that chemical in it when it degrades. The lifetime of these weapons is months once the progenitor chemicals are loaded into the shells. The weapons in question were not lethal even at the beginning of the first gulf war.
You argue that they were required to destroy them. In every meaningful way, they were destroyed before the demand was even made. By loading the chemicals into the shells, and letting them age beyond the point of usefulness, they were destroyed.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:16 amI’m also selling my copies of 1984 — FOR BURNING!!!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:18 amHow would Americans behave if told: 50,000 troops will be stationed in permanent bases around Chicago and Houston? We’re saving them so well that 40,000 civilians have been killed in three years? How many people died on 911? Who attacked us? So make sure and get your magnetic bumper ribbon for the car encouraging our young resourseful people can breathe in depleted uranium dust while dodging bombs and bullets as we occupy a people. Americans would not stand one day of occupation without violent resistence. “China has overthrown our government ,lets give them a few more years, or else you know the north might attack the south again.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:20 amAccording to my colleague who worked at Ft. Dietrick, mustard gas is not a WMD. In fact, no chemical weapons are WMDs. Most biological weapons are not even WMDs. Only nuclear, and human-human contagious lethal biological weapons are WMDs. Nuclear, chemical and biological weapons are classified together as NBCs.
Comment by Njorl — June 22, 2006
Those weapons programs were included in the UNMOVIC report of declarations made by Iraq on it’s prohibited weapons programs.
I don’t give a rip what your colleague says, all that matters is what UNMOVIC and the IAEA says.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:20 am‘The shells had “To Saddam–Compliments of Ronald Reagan†stenciled on the side.’
Comment by Above the Clouds — June 22, 2006 @ 1:40 am
That is a popular misconception. While the US sold Iraq the chemicals required to eliminate evidence that a chemical attack took place, it was not the US that sold him the materials to make the weapons. It was France and Germany (multinationals based in those countries, really) that actually sold Saddam the chemicals and equipment. They were supposedly selling him the means to manufacture pesticide, but everyone knew what was going on.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:23 am‘The shells had “To Saddam–Compliments of Ronald Reagan†stenciled on the side.’
Comment by Above the Clouds — June 22, 2006 @ 1:40 am
HAHAHA!!!! I LOVE THAT I LUUUV IT!
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:28 amPete, I thought you were a RNC paid Rovian troll. You know the pimply assed young republicans you find on campuses all over the country trying to work their way up the Republican food chain. They hire these guys to spew idiotic Republican made up talking points and blather. You however, don’t seem to quite fill the profile you’re not quite smooth enough or bright enough. Maybe there is a dearth of smarmy self hating latent homosexuals to recruit from and the RNC is taking a page from military recruiting efforts and are enlisting the mentally retarded.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:36 am“I don’t give a rip what your colleague says, all that matters is what UNMOVIC and the IAEA says.
Comment by Pete”
Please then. What do they say, and how do the weapons found demonstrate a violation of anything? If you go down the road of niggling technical stupidity to prove your point, you can’t leave anything out. State the agreements that were violated, the manner of the violation and demonstrate that no possible mitigating factors excuse the violations. Generalities such as “He had to declare and destroy his WMDs” are not adequate.
We who have sanity on our side (the damn things were no longer weapons, let alone WMDs) do not need to do this. We can simply see that they were no longer weapons at all. We can see that no one who wants a WMD capacity would hide their weapons in a manner that renders them USELESS! But you who do not value common sense or sanity, but only value the letter of the law must demonstrate that you have an airtight case citing all pertainant law in an exhaustive manner.
Please, go right ahead.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:37 amTold ya, bitches. I wasn’t lying…
-
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:38 amHoekstra actually impressed me once, the Sunday he spoke against Hayden’s nomination.
“Bottom line, I do believe he’s the wrong person at the wrong place at the wrong time…we should not have a military person, leading a civilian agency, at this time.”
Describing possibility of DoD taking over Intelligence, he said that the danger “…is that the military has a very different perspecitive on the world.”
Well what do you know! Now there’s TWO different perspectives on the world, Rick!!!
If he’s looking shocked or chagrined, I don’t see it on his face.
Mr. Sanitorinsanium’s, I could read.
What’s Hoekstra thinking…
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:38 am“You know the pimply assed young republicans you find on campuses all over the country trying to work their way up the Republican food chain.”
Comment by yeranalyst
Seriously, where can I sign up for THAT job?
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:39 am[...] Why? There are a lot of reasons. But part of it is because he pulls stupid crap like this. Today, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) held a press conference and announced “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.†Santorum and Hoekstra are hyping a document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:40 am“all that matters is what UNMOVIC and the IAEA says.”
comment by pete
hehehe. look who has the last laugh now … looks like you all need to brush up on your UNMOVIC, huh?
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:43 amthought so. git’r'dun pete.
to #124
I just agreed that Hayden was a bad choice, but that’s my batting average. 0-for all appointments.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:43 amQ:What was the Bush administration’s reason for invading Iraq?
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:46 amA: they found heiroglyphs of WMD on the pyramid ruins.
Does Apple Computer Inc. pay this site to post clip only in the QuickTime format? Shame since 95% of computers users use a Windows-PC. Thank God for dual-formats at Crooks and Liars. I think Think Progress should offer full disclosure about your preference for QuickTime.
Comment by Nigel Elliott — June 22, 2006 @ 2:15 am
Nigel
Its all good buddy.
Quicktime is a free plugin like Macromedia Flash Player. Its no biggie. Just download it for free and run the install and bada boom bada bing, you’re done.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:50 amSeriously, where can I sign up for THAT job?
Comment by August — June 22, 2006 @ 2:39 am
Try http://www.spankmee.com
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:53 am“www.spankmee.com”
posted by CLUBBER WORFEUS
LOL, no wait ROFLOL!
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:02 amhttp://www.lemonparty.org
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:02 amKJ Lovell:
I wonder why scrotorum is rerunning the old GOP fake out WMD stuff now. I thought his focus was on Guns, Gays and God – but in GOP land it is never too late to do a fake news story…
Ummm, he’s almost 20 points down in the polls. Hope that answers your question. That, and the fact that he’s a certified lunatic….
Cheers,
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:16 amWhat’s with this Pete guy? There is no questionable WMDs here.
Even if these BS weapons were active they simply do not threaten the United States in any shape or form and never did.
Sounds like desperation to me. I remember the bio lab illustrations they used to sell us this nightmare invasion.
They were supposed to be proof of chemical weapons. What a bunch of crap. It’s all been a pack of lies.
Pete you either have your brain attached to the Republican Matrix or you just get off being the center of attention. Which is it?
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:16 am‘It’s all been a pack of lies.’
posted by mike
hey, you’re a Phil Collins fan, huh?
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:40 amOver here in Europe I see that CNN are still scrolling this story as if it was breaking news. A day late and a dollar short as usual.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:40 amyou keep you general euro-nastiness out of this, okay.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:50 amHey, CLUBBER WORFEUS.
Aren’t you supposed to be Nigerian and want my bank account #?
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:55 amI’m strictly red, white and blue. Just over here yelling “Soccer” in crowded German football stadiums.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:57 amHey, CLUBBER WORFEUS.
Aren’t you supposed to be Nigerian and want my bank account #?
Comment by nova silverpill — June 22, 2006 @ 3:55 am
In truth I ask was there a question in there?
If so, what pray tell is its meaning?
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:59 amSantorum and Faux News – if that isn’t dumb and dumber, I do not know what is. 500 nonfunctional chemical munitions from the Iran-Iraq war is not news. Santorum is desperate to defuse some of the anger over the Iraq war so he can make his sinking Senate campaign competitive. 2508 US soldiers have died for this nonsense, 20000 have been wounded, it has cost over 400 billion dollars, and the bin Laden is sipping tea in his cave cheering our stupidity.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:04 am‘I’m strictly red, white and blue. Just over here yelling “Soccer†in crowded German football stadiums. ‘
posted by stantheman
I’m just kidding, man. but seriously, soccer is un-american and you should know better. :)
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:16 amI’m just kidding, man. but seriously, soccer is un-american and you should know better. :)
Comment by August — June 22, 2006 @ 4:16 am
S’OK, August, I, hopefully, detected the irony/humorous/playful nature of your response. I also yell “Cricket” in baseball stadiums (especially Arlington) on July 4th. Must go. The Hoffbrauhouse is calling. LOL
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:24 amNevermind the fact that the document came from the DOD.
Regardless, it still blows the liberal “they didn’t have any” mantra to hell.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:05 amSantorum is the biggest laugh in Washington. I guess the Congress needs a Pagliacci but this guy’s greed and hunger are so obvious that he’s becoming an icon for the seven sins. Why are all these “chritians” politicians such rats?
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:10 amtypically, with the case of the far right, their misleading claims have done more damage as intended, than any subsequent revelations (which tend to receive a fraction of the press) that they were misleading in the first place does to the original misleaders. (on the other hand, when it comes to democrats, this is often reversed, because of the great republican spin machine — so imagine how effective they are when they actually catch the democrats in a mistake — and the propensity of the media with respect to democrats.)
sometimes things can be boiled down to their simplest elements. this is one of those things.
if this above trend were not true, the far right, instead of dominating the national debate, would be recognized as just that, i.e., “the far right,” — and close to the bottom of the bell curve instead of being represented by a large portion of our current Congress, the current White House, and now three and very likely 4 of the current Supreme Court Justices.
the reason is also simple: this is their motus operandi. to spin, distort, find things with which to attack democrats, liberals, moderates, and anybody else they want to lable as “left wing,” the media, mislead by rhetoric that appeals to our worst emotions and biases…manufacture facts or simply blatantly mislead..
when “mistakes” such as these are effectively turned around on the far right wing, they will cease to have the almost national debate defining (shifting) effect that they have, and will more aptly serve to define the far right wing. (which will then in turn engage this tactic less often or egregiously, and thus manipulate less, but if they don’t it will harm more than help)
therefore, what needs to be done, in THIS and EVERY instance, is turn the misleading statement, into a bigger story, than the impact of the statement itself.
this is not done, because democrats often assume facts speak for themselves. but to most of America, they don’t, because most of America hears competing claims, or what it “wants to hear,” constant rhetoric, and because the initial impact of the story tends to be far more potent, and often spun more significantly in the news (which is another reason why the “manipulation” itself has to become the story. then the fact that santorum, for example, tried to manipulate becomes the lead potent story).
this manufactured claim to try and manipulate or mislead the public, by taking what were long recognized stockpiles of old, no longer viable gas agents, and try to sell it to the public that this is what seeking to remove WMD via active military engagement with Iraq was all about, needs to be constantly blogged and commented on outside of predominantly liberal or democratic sites, emailed, and telephoned to the media, over and over and over and over and over, until the story that Rick Santorum either doesn’t understand what the Iraq and WMD question was all about, or was purposefully trying to manipulate the public, becomes a BIGGER story than the gosh awful story that Iraq had some old sarin/mustard gas stockpiles from before the gulf war well over a decade ago.
by the way anonymous liberal. this not only negates the “wash, repeat, rinse” cycle that has led to the political domination of America this millenium, it turns it into a weapon against them.
as for that fox channel that reported on this, see this short piece on their “no spin” spinmeister, saying some absolutely incredible things….
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:23 amand lets throw in three pieces on the seminal issues of our day, that journalists are poorly covering. particularly ironic, given the content of the middle piece
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/06/secrecy-and-security.html
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/05/imprisoning-journalists.html
http://www.pressthenews.com/specter-nsa1.htm
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:29 amI am moving to Pennsylvania on Sunday – looking forward to voting that imbecile Santorum out of office!
To me, Santorum represents precisely what sucks about America. I won’t patronize you with the details, since I am sure we all agree on them, but America mostly doesn’t suck, and its people like Santorum that remind us again of Plato’s cautions about democratic states.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:47 am[...] The Defense Department says no. Permalink| [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:49 amPete
These were degraded shells found mostly along an old war front. Now if France was told to get rid of all of its chemical weapons, would the unexploded gas shells from WWI count?
Further, if Saddam had WMD’s in working condition when America invaded why didn’t Saddam use them?
Further, if something is degraded to the point where it isn’t usable doesn’t that mean it is basically for all intents and purposes destroyed?
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:55 amPete:
1. If all mustard and sarin munitions are illegal the world around, then the US is in direct violation of international law. The US holds the largest active stockpiles of both. Would that imply that the rest of the world is justified in launching a pre-emptive attack on the US?
2. We were sold a bill of goods not on old stockpiles of weapons, but on active, ongoing production of WMDs. Remember the vial of baby powder (or whatever it was) and the bad drawings of so-called “mobile weapons labs”? The fact that to this day you’re still trying to justify that one would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
3. The US is, and there’s no way to argue around this, is direct violation of international law, including the Nuremberg code which was WRITTEN MAINLY BY THE US ITSELF. So stop referring to UN resolutions and international law as if you cared an iota about it. The US doesn’t give a d**n about international law and the Bush crime family has repeatedly said so.
Pete: go F yourself (as your dear leader Cheney would say)…
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:56 amDude, when you get punked by Alan Colmes fer crissakes, you might as well end it now and slit your wrists in the tub. Sheesh!
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:09 am#145
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:39 amA case in point about wingnut media strategy. A few weeks ago a regular NY Post columnist, Taheri, published a report that all Jews in Iran were going to be required to wear identifying clothing. The story originated with Mossad agent Conrad Black’s New Post, was picked up by the Jerusalem Post, and subsequently promulgated by Taheri and the Wiesenthal Institute. It was debunked almost immediately. Did the NY Post print a retraction? Did Taheri apologize for his disinformation? Two days later, the Post published a whole raft of outraged letters to the editor calling for the destruction of Iran due to their heinous behavior toward Jews. Santorum is doing exactly the same thing – floating a completely false story and eagerly awaiting the rabid response of his constituents.
What an ignorant fool Senator Sanctimoron is…..he says he’ll wait to hear what the Defense Department says “or more importantly what the Administration” says.
RICK you ignorant homophobe….the Defense Department IS the Administration. The Secretary of Defense works for Bush….All agencies of the Federal government and their respective Secretaries ARE the Administration.
This is just one more example of why Sanctimoron needs to be retired on November 7. Only 137 more days until he’s an official has-been.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:42 amI can’t stand that anti-choice, lisping, Alito-loving wuss Bob Casey, but Lil Ricky has finally done the impossible — he’s got me endorsing BOB CASEY — and for that, I hate him even more.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:20 am“… I’d like to know who that Defense Department employee is…” so’s I can get his whisltblowin’ ass out on the street ASAP.
calling Santorum a moron is to insult morons.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:44 amI agree with all of these right-wing *ahem* intellectuals here. Iraq should have been invaded because it had chemical weapons it was required to destroy in a set amount of time. Following that logic though we could be introuble.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:45 am
What a dumbass liar. This stupid son-of-a-bithc is 18 points behind and all this coiffed queer does is tell another GOP lie. Hurry up November ‘06! We cannot stomach this much longer.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:55 amWMD is WMD.
Comment by Pete
Pete must have missed the Moussaoi trial.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:16 amPlanes are WMD Pete. Yes, Airports around the world, right out in the open, tens of thousands of WMD.
The point isn’t that the lie he spoke of WMDs being discovered was said, it’s that he put the lie out there. He did his job because whenever one of these guys says anything, FOX, talk radio, right wing rags will run with it and do their best to present it as fact and force it ont he public. It doesn’t matter that it was a lie, just that he got the cryptic message out to the GOP Zombies to march in lock step to.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:30 amBoy, that hail mary pass by Rick BOMBED! Try again. Better yet, don’t.. They’ll try any lie to win.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:41 amThis is further proof that the far right does no research, and does not understand that others will.
I mean, what a complete pair of dumbasses to put their reputations further on the line by making this public claim without first talking to someone in the know who could verify or deny their claims. And these guys are on the same party.
Laughing-stocks, both of them for their Chicken Little Act 2006. I hope it’s the end of tehir careers. People this desperate should never have an ounce of authority.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:53 amTricky Ricky is already 18 points down in his Senate race. After this propaganda PR stunt, he’ll drop another 10. What an asshole.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:07 amthese bait and switch republicants are pulling out the last straws now… next they’ll be throwing out a bestiality insinuation – from man-dog no less.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:11 amComment on 163: Wait, making comments with no research is not a far right only mentally deficient symptom, especially when you take Hillary into consideration. She’s now saying we should go back to a 55 mile per hour speed limit to save gas! As the infamous “Rev.” Jim Jones said, “Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.” The 55 mph speed did nothing but frustrate people. Saving gas means forcing auto companies to make more fuel efficient cars, get rid of the fake anti-pollution equipment, and let cars run correctly at about 70 to 100 mpg.
As far as WMD is concerned, what idiot thought the U.S. should ever become a ‘first-strike’ nation? Where have all our values gone? Human lives lost on both sides, just in case. Reminds me of “Minority Report” where you go to jail for something you might do in the future. It’s a bad precident to set, and a bad president who set it.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:19 am[...] As Combs, and the Duelfer Report, point out, the shells our Senator mentioned were from pre-1991 (that would be before the first Gulf War) and that the Hussein government had apparently destroyed their stockpiles of chemical weapons (save for five hundred or so shells that they forgot, never maintained and, therefore, could not use). The Duelfer Report also concludes that Iraqi government did not undertake efforts to reconsitute their WMD programs once they were dismantled. Our President’s Department of Defense even dismissed the significance of Senator Santorum’s press release. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:24 amPennsylvania’s Shame…
Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) surpasses any Asshat designation I could possibly award. It is with shame that I have to consider him a native Pennsylvanian. Of course, maybe I can consider him a former PA resident, since other people live…
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:25 amDD disavows WMD claim – no matter – Santorum was on Imus this morning, holding fast to his claim that vestiges of 15 year old chemicals were the missing WMDs.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:27 amWait, making comments with no research is not a far right only mentally deficient symptom, especially when you take Hillary into consideration.
Comment by MiddleMan — June 22, 2006 @ 9:19 am
An exception does not invalidate the rule, as nothing is 100%. Though I did not say that the left was exempt. Take the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories that several far-left folks jumped on without discrimination or consideration..
This thread is about the actions of the far-right and my commentary was in direct response to that context. It was not meant to be an absolute. I forget that the right doesn’t get that the left speaks in shades of grey.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:32 amPete, the dems keep winning but end up losing because you guys keep stealing elections. Losers always resort to dirty underhand tactics when they are desperate, and I find these last throes of desperation on the part of sanatorum actually enjoyable. I love seeing him squirm, grovel and tremor as his forked tongue croaks into oblivion. And the worst thing of all is that he can’t do anymore what he was always best at: bash queers; Oh boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo. Continue grovelling and squirming, sanatorum; Your straight-(pun intended) jacket’s on its way.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:39 amIt is very sad that the repugs use the Iraq war for political gain. At least our Democrats don’t use Iraq for political gain. Oh wait…. Pot calling the kettle black once again.
Just face it, both parties are huge pieces of crap. Both will use any success or failure to trump there position and boost political support. This story isn’t surprising. What is surprising is watching you morons act like this is the first time either party ever has used questionable information out of Iraq for political gain.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:44 amJust another attempt by George’s propaganda network to give those in the Red(neck) states something to hang their hat on. They no that the headline “WMD’s Found” will suffice for Billy Bob and his wife/cousin Lurleen.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:47 amOK, so let’s do the cost benefit here. over 2,500 servicemen killed and who knows how many civilians, burgeoning civil war for 500 old WMD’s. Hey, that sounds like a good deal! Five brave Americans who did what their civilian leadership asked for each inoperable piece of WMD found. What a deal!
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:51 amIt’s a test balloon. Have the 1 senator who DEFINITELY will be defeated in Nov. try out this lie. If people buy it or his #s move upwards others will follow. If not, then republicans can simply say that it was just 1 senator claiming this + that senator lost his election.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:53 am[...] The last embarassing bit was his recycling of a years-old report of our discovery in Iraq of buried and degraded 25+ year old mustard and nerve gas, left over from the Iran-Iraq War, no doubt delivered via Donald Rumsfeld and stamped with "Made-in-the-USA". These reports have been throroughly discredited by everyone and their grandmother, but to a member of the legislature, especially one is trouble in an election year, anything looks like a lifeline. You know it's bad when both FOXNEWS and the Department of Defense discredits you. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:59 amsantorum’s rebuttal tells it all. Republicans and far too many democrats just get the stories covered the way that they want and create doubt by playing the “wait and see” game. They know that the media, once hannity takes over, will ensure a completely different reality.
Even if they don’t convince the entire public that there really were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the doubt about it is really all they need.
They plan on stealing the next election, and the proof is in the way they are creating enough doubt on the major points where they’ve been proven wrong time and again, that they can justify the lying numbers which again will almost definitely be out of sync with exit polls. Unless, of course, they can do away with exit polls.
They’ve already created a false-sense of doubt about the validity of highly accurate exit polls.
These people are lying sacks of shit and we have to understand that every single piece of information put out there from this point forward is about one thing and one thing only: mid-term elections.
All they have to do is turn the news around. They don’t care about the public. They’ve got us already taken care of through the counting of votes.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:00 ami thought we went to war because of the IMMINENT THREAT saddam posed via his MASSIVE STOCKPILES of WMD that were poised to launch at israel or somesuch shit and saddam being 6 months away from having a nuke. even if stupid ricky (R-VA) was actually correct, its no justification whatsoever for the war as it was sold.
everyone should watch the frontline show that ran this week.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:01 amGo to “crooks and liars” listen to Little Ricky talk about the memo, and then hold up the “Classified Memo” he recieved,then scrowl done to the post that sends you to the Offical Report, What does the last word on the report say?
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:03 amWatch out. That’s it. They want us to watch out.
You see, if we’re afraid, then we don’t talk. I’m tired of letting pussies like rick santorum and his whiny pouting shit-eating face spew lies just to move a gullible public who care nothing to think beyond the rancor.
They live for rancor.
Think about the gay marriage issue. Last election, that was the first thing thrown into the public’s face about the election going to bush, rather than the actual winner. (”It’s bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan,” “It’s 19 Muslim Arab hi-jackers,” “The buildings fell because of fires,” “The president didn’t want to upset the children.”)
The fact that they lost the election, and that is pretty widely confirmed to any rational beings, only throws the lie into the light of day.
If they lost, it was not gay marriage that swayed the election. If they lost and still claimed victory, then gay marriage was the cover.
They need a media reason for people to vote for them. It will sway enough voters that they can take care of the extra millions to count for republicans.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:10 amSantorum is a “DD” (a desparate dick head); but so are all republican “followhip party” members. Oh, Santorum is one of my “DD” senators.
In light of the lies and deceptions of the current administration, the biggest lie being that George Bush won even one presidential election, why on earth would Americans believe that WMDs have been found in Iraq.
I prefer to believe that Bush and/or his handlers have had sufficient time to plant, not find, WMDs there.
The Pharaohs killed slaves who worked on and knew the secrets of the Pyramids. Look for a spate of special opts people disappearing, the ones who planted these munitions months ago. In the event these are really Saddam’s munitions, it doesn’t change that fact that Bush is a liar and an illegitimate holder of the office. He is still the “little wooden head” Pinocchio with the strings still attached.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:15 am#66
“These were forgotten, defunct shells.”
Which means that they were still filled with sarin and mustard gas and were NOT destroyed. Forgotten doesn’t mean destroyed and 500+ shells is not a small number that Saddam’s military just happen to forget about, especially when they had years to destroy them.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:16 am#55
The U.S. DID NOT sell any WMDs to Iraq. The chemicals were produced in Iraq. The elements that Iraq used to make that chemical weapons were unfortunately were sold by the U.S. to Iraq.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:20 am[...] The Defense Department has already knocked the story down. But on Fox this is big news, proving that Saddam Hussein had WMD, just as the administration claimed. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:23 am[...] The Defense Department has already knocked the story down. But on Fox this is big news, proving that Saddam Hussein had WMD, just as the administration claimed. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:24 am#79
“These shells are not WMDs because they are old, useless items containing degraded material that is simply not lethal enough to kill large number of people, or any number of people for that matter.”
So that exempted Iraq from destroying them? Good one.
“They claimed that we had to invade Iraq because they had a new, effective, deployable chemical, biological arsenal and an active nuclear program and all of that posed a huge threat to the US.”
Whis is what the CIA was saying at the time before the invasion.
“Which was hogwash.”
Correction…which was later proved to be hogwash.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:31 am#113
This is getting ridiculous! Iraq was required to DESTROY the chemicals AS WELL as the shells, not just let them sit a degrade and call it good. Total BS! I guess the only way this is going to make people here see that Saddam did not destroy all of his WMDs is for one of the insurgents in Iraq to make a IED out of one of those “inert” sarin or mustard gas shells an send a bunch of Iraqis to the hospital for exposure symptoms.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:39 amWow, apparently there’s a bigger liar than Rummy and W out there. And his name is Rick Santorum. The term “grasping for straws” seems apt here. The sad thing about this election ploy is that it wasn’t even used closer to November. Wel, I guess by November we will have been “attacked” again – so this is just a warm-up.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:41 amCheck out the BRAND NEW SSA:BLOG. Only on SSA.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
Santorum is waiting on “the FACT of what the administration has to say about this.”
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:43 amWhat’s this remark supposed to mean? I thought a fact was a proven truism. He can’t even get his FACTS straight.
Can any Conservative find their butt with 2 hands today…Talk about s t r e t c h i n g the truth!…uh Buh Bye Rick…
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:54 amMr BlueSky – #7 Just a minute. Let’s wait until the actual Pentagon weighs in before we draw any conclusions.
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:55 am#149
“Further, if something is degraded to the point where it isn’t usable doesn’t that mean it is basically for all intents and purposes destroyed?”
Un, no it doesn’t. This is a yes or no question not a “mostly destroyed” or a “all the usable shells were destoyed” or a “well the chemicals inside the shells are now intert” one.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:20 amThis is just high comedy. You couldn’t come up with a better parody of a rightwinger. Oh wait, I think he’s serioius……
#145 – You describe the right wing propaganda technique quite well. Read it everybody, then maybe you’ll stop wasting your time responding to these cretins.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:30 amTracy,
Calm down. You can’t spin this one enough to convince anyone that Saddam would have hidden his WMD instead of using them when we attacked. If he had them, he would have used them to defend himself. His track record of SCUDs in Kuwait shows that he has do problem firing back.
Besides, even if you are right about the shells, they weren’t a reason to go to war. They were only a reason to send garbage trucks over.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:35 am#202
“If he had them, he would have used them to defend himself.”
If the shells were not usable he couldn’t have used them. I am not debating that the shells the were found were probably inert and old but that is NOT the point. When you state the liberals speak in “shade of grey” that makes perfect sense in this case and explains why some here say that chemical weapon shells that are useless and not useable actually means that they were “destroyed”. It’s laughable logic.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:41 amWhich means that they were still filled with sarin and mustard gas and were NOT destroyed. Forgotten doesn’t mean destroyed and 500+ shells is not a small number that Saddam’s military just happen to forget about, especially when they had years to destroy them.
Comment by Tracy — June 22, 2006 @ 10:16 am
Tracy–in this case forgotten does mean destroyed–the material degraded to the point these shells were useless. And these shells were leftover from the iran-iraq war–is this really what 2500 servicemen died for. We were told we were facing a grave and gathering threat–i hardly think 20 year old useless shells qualify. And the same report you cite says that since the first gulf war iraq was not able to get any WMD programs going–once again no grave and gathering threat there. Next we will be hearing that wmd’s were found because under someones sink they found a bottle of clorox and amonia. Your grasping at straws.
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:42 am[...] The only problem with his post? The Department of Defense has already disavowed the so-called new evidence. The “WMD” in question are degraded munitions left over from before Gulf War I. They present no evidence of a reconstituted weapons program. At least, that was the conclusion of the Pentagon, a source notable for being far more trustworthy than Senator Man-on-Dog. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:42 am[...] When And Colmes confronted the senator and father of six [and counting?] with the fact that the Defense Department and the administration had already dismissed these particular WMDs as 20 year old garbage, Santorum replies, “Is not.” [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:48 amTracy is remarkably ill-informed? No, she is completely informed on the right-wing-nut talking points where up is down and wrong is right.
Just ignore her. She is spreading the “plausible deniability” kind of rhetoric meant to undermine an argument without admitting the obvious flaws in her arguments.
Why spend time refuting the claims of someone who does not understand the rules of international arms agreements.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:51 amIt’s sad, sad, sad to hear the desperation and clinging of the few trolls who hang onto the myths fed them by the kooks in power. Kooks of a feather, I guess, but I’ve heard more convincing kooks talking about ghosts and the Loch Ness Monster on Discovery Channel. Would Pete, Tracy, fright-eyes, and these others please just either volunteer and serve in Iraq, or relocate themselves to a theocratic monarchy like Iran or Saudi Arabia where they’ll feel much more at home than here in our terrible, secular heathen jungle. SPIN? says that there are no WMD?!?! Hardly, people. Hundreds of trained professionals who’ve scoured that pitiable land for four years is who says there are no and were no wmd in Iraq, and if these ignorant, benighted trolls had paid any real attention to the news for the last 20 years they’d have known that for themselves back in ‘02. But they didn’t know that, becasue the only attention they pay is to loudmouthed dummies who scream at them on the radio and tell them the reason they’re so bitter and unhappy is because foreigners or gay people are having a good time somewhere, or because a Mexican has a job. Pathetic dummies, discredit to all that’s been done to provide them an education. Utterly dependent on “authorities”, afraid of science and reason, and incapable of reaching a reliable conclusion on their own. A batch of liberals should show up on their doorstep naked and slap them unconscious as a reward for being so goodamned stupid.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:52 amSorry Tracey,
You know and I know that “defunct” artillary shells pose NO danger to my kids Nor yours. Same for israel. We were suppose to be working on 911 … not invading nations because of their “non-compliance” with mustard gas weapons. 911 was a cut at our collective throat… this should our only focus… how to secure ourselves from a lethal blow.
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:52 am>>It’s laughable logic.
This is just trash talk. You made a foolish claim thatSaddam was supposed to destroy these weapons. No, you can’t destroy something you don’t know
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:53 amabout. Your implication is that somehow he violated the UN sanctions, and by extension, the US invasion was therefore just. But finding old shells
that were of no use that Saddam did not know about is not proof of anything besides that Santorum is pulling a PR stunt.
#208
“A batch of liberals should show up on their doorstep naked and slap them unconscious as a reward for being so goodamned stupid.”
Do you want to volunteer?
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:57 am#177 roger_roger : If you actually believe the Dems to be no more than the moral equivalent of the gop and the trolls that squat here to deposit the turds they get from Rush you are every bit as stupid as Pete and Tracy. No one is without fault, which is something you all need a major refresher course on. However, to compare the fault of getting a bj with the fault of sending thousands to their unnecessary deaths while racking up historical levels if debt (for which your children/grandchildren will work as slaves to foreign taskmasters) is just horribly stupid on your part. How did all these stupid, stupid people get computers? Now that they have them, why are they here, showing the whole world how woefully stupid they are? I’m embarrassed for their families – a lot more than I would be if they were marrying someone of the same sex.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:00 pm#210
“No, you can’t destroy something you don’t know about.”
You know for a fact that Saddam’s government didn’t know about them?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:00 pm[...] Think Progress and Hot Air have the video. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:00 pmsure, tracy – God knows you’re asking for it, so don’t lie.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:01 pmI take that back, Tracy, because we all know that beating someone mentally handicap is something only a republican could support.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:03 pmThe “debate” on this page is just beautiful. Its quite enjoyable. Pete is a 100% pure American home grown STAR. No other country could produce such untainted heroism, such insight, such pinpoint accuracy. Come on Pete, more posts please. The Republican party needs men of your intellectual stature.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:04 pm>>You know for a fact that Saddam’s government didn’t know about them?
Yes. For the reasons I stated above. The Duelfer report mentioned no active caches. To quote from
a CNN article “NO WMD stockpiles in Iraq.” They knew about these discarded shells long before
this report was released. As I pointed out in the link I provided in the BBC report, villagers–not
Saddam’s army–had possession of these shells. No, Saddam did not know about them. I
It is really that simple.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:05 pmYou know for a fact that Saddam’s government didn’t know about them?
Comment by Tracy — June 22, 2006 @ 12:00 pm
and you know they did?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 pmQuick take headlines: Nuke ‘em Thursday…
Here’s an idea: throw a missile or two at North Korea ……
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:12 pmThe only thing laughable, Tracy, is you. You thought you had something, now the DOD is telling you it’s nothing.
Your kind are, once again, banished to tinfoil hat land. Have fun dreaming about the Bekka valley and Russians in the dark.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:22 pm.
[...] Can Sean Hannity and Rick Santorum and all the others who continue to claim that Weapons of Mass Destruction were found in Iraq now just stop perpetuating that lie? According to this story at Think Progress, Santorum and others are, to this day, continuing to claim that WMDs were found in Iraq when nothing could be further from the truth. The Think Progress article points out the following statement from the Department of Defense: While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible Indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad???s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:27 pm#207
“Why spend time refuting the claims of someone who does not understand the rules of international arms agreements.”
Which are?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:50 pm#212
You aren’t stupid?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:54 pmThis morning on NPR they interviewed some people in California who live near a Marine base.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5503173
In it, one vet says that “they” can blow our people up, why shouldn’t we do that?
This is the real reason why people like Santorum get elected…… the voters are idiots who vote for other idiots.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:05 pm[...] Rick Santorum played y’all for fools. Don’t believe me (or Glenn)? Ask the DoD. Good stuff? Spread the word: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:05 pmi still find it hard to understand, the conservatives present themselves as intlligent human beings, i use that term loosley, and yet they continue to vote for theses lying, stealing a**holes. Unbelievable!
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:06 pm#218
“As I pointed out in the link I provided in the BBC report, villagers–not
Saddam’s army–had possession of these shells.”
The 500+ shells that were found were lifted off of Iraqi citizens?
“As I pointed out in the link I provided in the BBC report”
Which link?
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:08 pmIf the shells were not usable he couldn’t have used them.
Then NOT WMDs
I am not debating that the shells the were found were probably inert and old but that is NOT the point.
That’s exactly the point. If you are pre-emptively attacking someone because they are a threat, then there needs to be a threat This was not a threat.
When you state the liberals speak in “shade of grey†that makes perfect sense in this case and explains why some here say that chemical weapon shells that are useless and not useable actually means that they were “destroyedâ€.
That’s not a viable anaology. I mean that everything isn’t 100% right or 100% wrong.
It’s laughable logic.
Comment by Tracy — June 22, 2006 @ 11:41 am
No it’s just plain logic. You should try it instead of the fallacious logic you use.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:28 pm#218
“No, Saddam did not know about them”
Why? If these shells are a collection by the U.S. military since the 2003 invasion, it still does not negate the fact the UN 1441 demanded that ALL of Iraq’s WMDs be accounted for. If Saddam’s military was that sloppy that they couldn’t keep track of it’s WMDs, this, in my opinion, is a good reason to remove his government from power, considering the black market is where terrorists go shopping for weapons.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:30 pmAre too!
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:30 pmAre TOO!
How brave of you Tracy.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:32 pm>>If Saddam’s military was that sloppy that they couldn’t keep track of it’s WMDs, this,
in my opinion, is a good reason to remove his government from power, considering the
black market is where terrorists go shopping for weapons
I really couldn’t care less for an opintion based on such sloppy thinking, especially since
it is part of a moving target argument.
You ask why Saddam did not know about them, but then the rest of your post refutes your
own question. (”He couldn’t keep track of them.”)
>>it still does not negate the fact the UN 1441 demanded that ALL of Iraq’s WMDs
be accounted for
Yes it does. You interpretation of the law is silly and is not shared by Duelfer or any of the Bush
administration, who after the report came out never claimed Saddam was hiding WMDs.
What black market are you talking about? Saddam had no black market where he sold
WMDs to the terrorist. Are you just making this up? Or do you mean the black market created
*after* the US invasion, when chaos ensued?
By the way, here is what the Duelfer report actually says about these shells:
One thing should be amply clear: These shells show no violation of 1441.
If you want to say the ware was justified because of 500 defunct shells, please go ahead. I would
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:44 pmlove to see this debaed in the media, and I am sure the Republicans would not, which is why
according to what I just read, Fox news didn’t even mention it this morning.
>> it still does not negate the fact the UN 1441 demanded that ALL of Iraq’s WMDs
be accounted for
Woops, I forgot to answer this. 1441 mentioned “WMDs,” not discarded or forgotten shells.
You see the difference, right?
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:48 pm#230
“That’s exactly the point. If you are pre-emptively attacking someone because they are a threat, then there needs to be a threat This was not a threat.”
At the time of the invasion the U.S. was aware that these shells were inert?
“That’s not a viable anaology. I mean that everything isn’t 100% right or 100% wrong.”
But in this case of the Iraq WMD issue there is only the question of whether the WMDs were or were not ALL destroyed.
“No it’s just plain logic. You should try it instead of the fallacious logic you use.”
Your warped logic suggests that inert WMD shells means that they were destroyed. Maybe you should explain what the UN ment when they demaned that all of Saddam’s WMDs must be accounted for and destroyed.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:10 pm>>Maybe you should explain what the UN ment when they demaned that all of Saddam’s WMDs must be accounted for and destroyed.
That’s pretty easy. All known stockpiles. Misiles containing sarin or mustard gas. Certainly *not*
forgotten or discarded shells from a previous war. If the UN demanded that, the burden would
have been so high no country possibly could have fullfilled the resolution.
>>At the time of the invasion the U.S. was aware that these shells were inert?
Good grief! They weren’t even thinking about shells. Supposedly they were worried about
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:18 pm*active* programs. They lied quite a bit in hyping the nuclear program asseerting that the
aluminum tubes were used for centirgugal devices when they were not. But that is beside the point
of this thread.
#234
“I really couldn’t care less for an opintion based on such sloppy thinking, especially since it is part of a moving target argument.”
It’s only moving for you.
“You ask why Saddam did not know about them, but then the rest of your post refutes your own question.”
That’s why it’s a question that was based on your assumption that the Iraqi army was not in possession of any WMD shells before the invasion, which we don’t know for sure. I asked the question….were these shells lifted off of Iraqi citizens? I asked for the BBC link and you have not provided it.
“What black market are you talking about? Saddam had no black market where he sold WMDs to the terrorist.”
LOL! Yes the black market that existed BEFORE and after the invasion in Iraq. Oil smuggling (common during the 1990s), weapons smuggling (common during the 1990s, the billions of dollars transfered in the oil for food program, ect…. You don’t think that if Saddamm couldn’t keep track of chemical weapon shells not used in the Iraq/Iraq war, considing we found hundereds, that some could or didn’t end up on the black market inside Iraq?
“One thing should be amply clear: These shells show no violation of 1441.”
BS! UN 1441 clearly states that Iraq was to ACCOUNT for and destroy all WMDs. Please read the resolution before making such asinine statements.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:38 pmAt the time of the invasion the U.S. was aware that these shells were inert?
What? Speculation or ignoramce is not viable reasons to attack people. It’s saying I can attack you because you might be about to attack me, and then when I find your pocketknife that has been rusted shut,say “Well, I wasn’t aware at the time I attacked you that it wasn’t a functioning weapon.”
You really can’t use that – it’s assinine at best. Especially because we had access to the country.
And, if they were active, they’d hardly be lying around abandonded in the desert…
But in this case of the Iraq WMD issue there is only the question of whether the WMDs were or were not ALL destroyed.
Again – not a valid reason to attack.
Your warped logic suggests that inert WMD shells means that they were destroyed.
I didn’t say that – someone else did. My logic says that you don’t attack people on speculation. And our legal system is based on that sort of logic. I am only ‘innocent’ of attacking you if you attaclked me first and I was using self-defense to prevent further attacks. Iraq never attacked us.
Maybe you should explain what the UN ment when they demaned that all of Saddam’s WMDs must be accounted for and destroyed.
Comment by Tracy — June 22, 2006 @ 2:10 pm
Mustard gas is not a WMD when it is potent. Neither is sarin gas. So these ‘finds’ don’t fall under your UN provision or qualify as such.
Sorry, you have no argument. At least not a real one.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:41 pm#234
http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/15016.htm
“3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;”
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:43 pmThe trolls are grasping at straws today. :-D
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:44 pm#237
“They weren’t even thinking about shells.”
The U.S. invasion force was carrying chemical weapon suits and special detection vehicles during the advance to Baghdad just because!? You’re right…good grief!
“That’s pretty easy. All known stockpiles. Misiles containing sarin or mustard gas. Certainly *not*forgotten or discarded shells from a previous war. If the UN demanded that, the burden would have been so high no country possibly could have fullfilled the resolution.”
See #240
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:47 pmdoes anyone realize those chem WMD’s may be stamped “made in USA” ??
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:54 pm#239
“What? Speculation or ignoramce is not viable reasons to attack people. It’s saying I can attack you because you might be about to attack me, and then when I find your pocketknife that has been rusted shut,say “Well, I wasn’t aware at the time I attacked you that it wasn’t a functioning weapon.—
Considering it was known that Saddam had used chemical weapons before and that Iraq HAD NOT, in it’s 2002 declaration, accounted for all of the WMDs known to exist before the 1990-1991 Gulf War…it was a safe assumption.
“You really can’t use that – it’s assinine at best. Especially because we had access to the country.”
Yeah, access to sites announced to Saddam prior to their inspections!
“Again – not a valid reason to attack.”
Your opinion.
“My logic says that you don’t attack people on speculation.”
It wasn’t speculation that Saddam didn’t account for all his WMDs in 2002.
“Mustard gas is not a WMD when it is potent. Neither is sarin gas. So these ‘finds’ don’t fall under your UN provision or qualify as such.”
Neither mustard gas or sarin gas are chemical weapon?
You gotta be kidding!
http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/weapons-of-mass-destruction.html
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Weapons_of_mass_destruction
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7813-991589,00.html
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:08 pmConsidering it was known that Saddam had used chemical weapons before and that Iraq HAD NOT, in it’s 2002 declaration, accounted for all of the WMDs known to exist before the 1990-1991 Gulf War…it was a safe assumption.
Again, try to follow along… You can’t go around attacking people for what they might have or might do.
Yeah, access to sites announced to Saddam prior to their inspections!
So change the rules if you don’t like them. He was, after all, at our mercy.
Your opinion.
No, civilized society’s.
It wasn’t speculation that Saddam didn’t account for all his WMDs in 2002.
Clearly it is, since no one has found them yet.
These are not WMDs, even when active.
Neither mustard gas or sarin gas are chemical weapon?
You gotta be kidding!
Comment by Tracy — June 22, 2006 @ 3:08 pm
Don’t attribute things I didn’t say to me so you prove them wrong. I said that they are not WMDs.
Here, so you don’t have to scroll back to re-read what I actually wrote:.
Mustard gas is not a WMD when it is potent. Neither is sarin gas. So these ‘finds’ don’t fall under your UN provision or qualify as such.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:35 pmComment by unbelievable — June 22, 2006 @ 2:41 pm
Remember ‘Wemzz Maash ishtruction’. These are the words SMIRKING CHIMP used to utter every time before invading Iraq. Now he is hardly heard saying these words. He now calls ‘liberation’ of Iraq. This senator whoever he is definitely dementic and has alzheimer’s problem. Senator doesn’t realise that smirking chimp no more mentions WMD.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:35 pmI believe the correct term for you followers of the little Crawford buckaroo would be “failed-argunator“.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:49 pm[...] And he’s got WMD!!! Wait, that’s his aftershave. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:54 pm[...] And he’s got WMD!!! Wait, that’s his aftershave. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:54 pm#245
“Again, try to follow along… You can’t go around attacking people for what they might have or might do.”
First, this is the failed logic that got the world into WW2. Second this is not a legal matter and there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says otherwise.
“So change the rules if you don’t like them. He was, after all, at our mercy.”
I am sure that Saddam would have still allowed inspectors in his country after we made that “rule” change. Give us a break!
“No, civilized society’s.”
So, we should just abide by what the opinion of the rest of the world says when it comes to our national defense….NO.
“Clearly it is, since no one has found them yet.”
That is not the point. UNMOVIC and the IAEA said that the declarations in 2002 were incomplete and basically just restated previous declarations.
“Don’t attribute things I didn’t say to me so you prove them wrong. I said that they are not WMDs.”
Oh, so now you are just playing semantics. I didn’t realize I had to annunciate that the chemicals themselves are not WMDs, in order for you to understand what we are talking about. I am sorry overestimated your decuctive reasoning capabilities.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:07 pmTruth, Lies, and WMD
Let’s take the politics and the passion out of the debate for a short moment. WMD have undeniably been found. Whether these are “the weapons of mass destruction we went to war for†or not doesn’t matter. The politics don’t matter, what matters is that 500 highly dangerous weapons have been taken out of the hands of lunatics.
The posts, the articles, and the roundtables of talking heads debating this will fire up from both sides today, and it doesn’t serve good on either side. There’s a reason that this hasn’t been put into the press, and it serves us all to think on that a moment.
If you are from the left and think these weapons are degraded and not dangerous, then answer this question honestly: Can we lock you and your family in a room with one and open it up? (5K Iraqi’s died to just three of these shells.)
If you are from the right and want to rub it into our opponent’s face ask yourself these questions: Does it serve our cause to obsess and dwell overmuch on dangerous implements of destruction while we still have troops in harms way, and dangerous maniacal opponents watching everything we say? Would it serve us better to find the rest of the weapons and quietly destroy them, or does it serve us better to bluster?
There are reasons that Bush and DOD want to downplay this. While the paranoid among us on either side might come up with fantasies, I am going to trust the administration. This is something we should not make front page the next five weeks.
http://noblesseoblige.org/wordpress/?p=243
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:30 pm[...] Think Progress has been all over the story and documents Santorum’s original claim here, and then follows up with his dismissal of the Defense Dept. denial (these are “not the WMD’s for which this country went to war”) because he didn’t hear it with his own ears. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:43 pmFirst, this is the failed logic that got the world into WW2.
Not the same at all. You cannot compare the two. Hitler was attacking.
Second this is not a legal matter and there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that says otherwise.
The Constitution is the basis for our civilization, how we govern ourselves. Pre-emptive war is a lack of self-governing.
I am sure that Saddam would have still allowed inspectors in his country after we made that “rule†change. Give us a break!
Again, he was at our mercy. You keep saying we need to be patient with the war. Well, your President sure wasn’t patient. And he certainly didn’t try to find a solution.
So, we should just abide by what the opinion of the rest of the world says when it comes to our national defense….NO.
Except that there was NO NATIONAL DEFENSE.
That is not the point. UNMOVIC and the IAEA said that the declarations in 2002 were incomplete and basically just restated previous declarations.
So?
Oh, so now you are just playing semantics.
If the words mean the same things, then we wouldn’t have two different words – or in this case classifications now would we? And there is a difference. They aren’t synonyms of one another.
I didn’t realize I had to annunciate that the chemicals themselves are not WMDs, in order for you to understand what we are talking about.
Yes, Tracy, you have to be honest and not lie to try to win an argument.
WMDs are a critical term here because they are the reason we attacked Iraq. We din’t say “Oh, we think they might have some empty shells with degraded chemical weapons inside of them lyng in the desert abandoned somewhere, so we wanna start bombing them.” Because if that is what you’re suggesting – and it is – no one would have bought it.
I am sorry overestimated your decuctive reasoning capabilities.
Comment by Tracy — June 22, 2006 @ 4:07 pm
Actually, you underestimated my ability to catch your bullshit bait and switch.
You can delude yourself. Just don’t expect the rest of us to do the same.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:50 pmSantorum, he’s always good for a Dog&Pony show, or is that Man on Dog show?!
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:06 pmHe’s one crazy loon!
Santorum and Imus are in a phony bed together. You should have heard the BS being slung around on his morning show. Santorum is playing up to Imus how wonderful Imus is towards him and Imus is the two faced telling Santorum how much he likes him. Then after he leaves Imus talks trash about him. Thank goodness Santorum is losing in Pa.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:10 pmWMD? OK, I guess they found “weapons.” End-of-the-last-century “weapons.” But I think Santorum is coming up short on the “mass” and “destruction” parts. Sounds to me like the “weapons” found were ready for a New Jersey landfill, and not capable of harming anyone except someone clumsy eno0ugh to drop one hauling it to the trash truck.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:33 pmStupid Libs…500+ WMD found. You LIED saying NO WMDs!!! Period, end of story.
If you don’t believe they were lethal, I’d suggest you take a Auschwitz shower and let us know what you think after.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:51 pmFar be it, I guess, for some people to learn anything prior to forming an opinion, but if you actually read the declassified portion of the report you would know that it said the “chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal.”
BTW – anyone notice that the terms of service on this site are self-contradicting? No surprise there.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:01 pmIt also seems to me that the name of the site is somewhat self-contradictory. It’s kind of an oxymoron to combine “thinking” and “progressive” into a single idea.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:07 pm#253
“Not the same at all. You cannot compare the two. Hitler was attacking.”
Exactly! Many in Europe, except for Nevlille Chamberlin and others, thought that Western Europe should have take action against Hitler before he started WW2. Hilter’s ambitions were clear. Do you think in hindsight it would have been wise for Western Europe to have taken preemptive action against Hilter prior to his invasion of Poland?
“Pre-emptive war is a lack of self-governing.”
For those who don’t see any wisdom in taking care of a problem before it gets out of hand.
“Again, he was at our mercy.”
Again, if we would have enforced that condition, i.e. unannounced inspections and demanding the inspectors to be free of Iraqi government observation and interference on him, Saddam would have kicked out all inspectors again as he did in 1998. You are aware that he was not complying with the U.N. “unfettered access” demand…don’t you?
“Except that there was NO NATIONAL DEFENSE.”
So the U.S. has to wait to be attacked before we can take any military action against a country we think will become a threat in the future? The U.S. wasn’t under attack by Sadamm in 1990 and Kuwait surely wasn’t an ally at the time. The U.S. wasn’t under attack by Milosevic and the Bosnians weren’t an ally either.
“Well, your President sure wasn’t patient”
How patient should he have been?
“So?”
First I said as statement of fact that…
It wasn’t speculation that Saddam didn’t account for all his WMDs in 2002.
Then you said…
“Clearly it is, since no one has found them yet.”
I thought you and I were clear that we were referring to his 2002 WMD declaration. The shells that have been found so far should have been part of that declaration. AGAIN please read the text of UN 1441 and you just learn something. Futhermore, considering that according to UN 1441, these shells should have been a part of Saddam’s WMD declaration, dubunks your statement the no one has found them yet considering the U.S. has found over 500 of them. Nothing in UN 1441 says anything about exempting Iraq from declaring or accounting for these inert shells. Do you know how many shells were used on the Kurds?…THREE.
“Yes, Tracy, you have to be honest and not lie to try to win an argument.”
No, I didn’t realize that I was dealing with a politician.
“WMDs are a critical term here because they are the reason we attacked Iraq.”
This whole story is about pointing out the fact that Sadamm didn’t account for WMDs that were banned under multiple UN resolutions and that those who said that all of these weapons were destroyed were WRONG.
“Actually, you underestimated my ability to catch your bullshit bait and switch.”
How exactly did I try a bait and switch?
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:18 pmthis will be the secomd finding of wmd’s in iraq.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:21 pmgo do a google search for yellow cake uranium and you will see how us forces found 500 tons of yellow cske uranium, 2 tons of which are weapons grade.
you wont find that in the lefty looney lib america hating NY times though
#256
Then write the Pentagon and ask them to ship one of the “inert” shells to your house and open it up like a bug bomb in your attic. It just might have a lovely smell.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:23 pmhttp://www.papillonsartpalace.com/usarmy.htm
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:30 pmTracy,
I’m too tired to argue trivial details that you want to try to turn into justification for war with Iraq.
Just face it – these shells were already known about and dismissed by the White House. If they didn’t jump all over it and wave it around, you really have nothing to stand on.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:10 pmDems now owe every American as well as President Bush an appology for lying to us! Bush is completely vindicated! 500 already found and I’m sure many more on the way before this is all over. What should be the front page story of every paper in the nation can only be found in a few places. And they say left-wing activism isn’t prevelant in the media!!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:26 pm[...] Think Progress says that the “Defense Department…quickly disavowed” Santorum. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:32 pmRick needs a job .. and not in politics or anywhere near it … I would truly like to trade his pension for mine. I am getting closer to a gut check of social security and how the Bush / Santorum regime dismantled the social security trust fund through allocations to the war effort..
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:33 pmWe need Congressman who pay into social security and only get it as part of their pension and we need to decide how much they really get in the end.
Since they are screwing us royally ….
Cory – thanks a lot – I lost a lot of money betting that no one dumber than Tracy would post a comment, then here you come! Back on the short bus, buddy, and make sure your helmet’s strapped down tight – the al qaeda wants to destroy your freedom.
And, oh, yeah – factfinder – try finding your ass so you can locate the weapon of mass dumb, situated somewhere south of your dad-bag, right in and around that area.
I’m sorry scholarly types, and I really do wish it was a high-road world, but it’s not, so I’m going to keep huckin rocks at the trolls.
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:23 pmSo Tracy, you believe it is imperative to follow the UN’s rules and regulations. That means that the US must do so also! THe UN charter (as well as the Nurenburg Principles) forbids aggresive war. The only LEGAL way to attack is with the UN’s permission (as in Korea). And while we are on the subject of obeying the law, your man George swore an oath to God to obey the constitution and the other laws of the land, including the bill of rights. Need I reiterate his massive abuses of the 1st,4th, 5th etc.? Also see Title 18 Chapter 113c section 2340 and 2340a of the US code where torture and the penalties for it are defined. Bush, Gonzales, Rumsfeld et al. have commited death penalty offenses. You cannot argue for action based upon a legal framework and then pick and choose which laws you are going to obey. As for WMDs, you know dammn well if they actually found any they would be shouting about it to the wole world. Besides which, your dear leaer has changed his rationale several times since the WMD argument fell flat. If was WMD programs then it was WMD program related activities then it was toppling Saddam then it was bringing democracy to the middle east. You havve got to keep up with the spin if you want to be a loyal drone!
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:39 pmRS IS BS!
HIM AND DON IMUS ARE THE MUTUALLY ADMIRATION SOCIETY. THEY SHOULD GET ON THE “LAST COMIC STANDING”
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:01 pmby now, pre 91 wmds are toxic goop, and have been as such for a long time… and in this respect, what was saddam planning on doing? lowering our entire country into a vat of bubbling, toxic stew by a rope, a la some marvel comics scenario?
the funniest part is how, after all the in country searchers have turned up nothing ( a completely worrisome thing if wmds do exsist there), thus bringing a good deal of embarrassment not only to the president, but americas good name around the world, some chump ass senator (and not the president, which wouldve been more approapriate ) “breaks the news” that over the past three news we’ve in fact found 100’s of wmd in iraq!
i’m guessing the news was just sweep under the carpet by the liberal media all these years, but now the truth can be told!
yeah, like the factions having at each other with weapons from the former iraqi army would just side step wmds in their sectarian fighting… if usuable wmds were readily avavilable, you’d have seen the sunnis and the shiites using that shiite on each other by now… they’d have known where to find it, or who could lead then to it.
perhaps saddam was playing a cat and mouse game
June 22nd, 2006 at 11:43 pmwith inspectors simply because bluffing was the only
card he could play. maybe he didnt have anything,
it’s certainly looking that way.
DJ’s comment—yellow Cake—More idiots abound in USA than anyplace!
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:53 amHay! goofus–this stock pile was known to USA, UN and the whole FKN world–DINK!
The yellow cake was left over from the Nuke reactor the french built and the Israehell bombed. The french sold the stuffto Saddam–you big fat dink DJ.
Note; the french sucked Saddam Royally and collected the $ billions and then helped Israehell bomb the structure.
I wish Assholes like DJ–would get off the planet or FK himself!
#264
“I’m too tired to argue trivial details that you want to try to turn into justification for war with Iraq.”
“If they didn’t jump all over it and wave it around, you really have nothing to stand on.”
Well I a getting tired of providing facts in regard to UN R1441, in which it is obvious you don’t know what is contained in the text. If you want to say that UN resolutions are nothing to stand on then they really don’t mean anything to you.
“Just face it – these shells were already known about and dismissed by the White House.”
According to the Duelfer report produced in 2004…is when these shells were deemed not usable and that is AFTER U.S. troops started to find them all over Iraq.
June 23rd, 2006 at 9:04 amLet Santorum and Hoekstra keep tugging at it. If they pull the string long enough, perhaps the US companies who were supplying SH with material for that stuff in the 80’s will pop out. Maybe they’ll uncover the gold spurs Rumsfeld delivered while the US was ignoring UN condemnation Iraq WMD use or get footage from US overflights that simply watched as they gassed the people Bush 1 incited to revolt from helicopters the US cleared SH to use after Gulf War 1. If there were grounds to take Hussein out – they were 10 years prior to 2003 but the resulting destabilization, sectarian fighting, civil war, increase in Iranian influence, loss of US allies were deemed a greater price than containing Hussein.
What went down in 2003 made as much sense as the Feds invading Alabama and Mississippi in 1980 because of bombings, beatings and lynchings during the civil rights movement.
June 23rd, 2006 at 9:09 amTo Rick Santorum, Orville and Wilbur would have been “fighter pilots”.
June 23rd, 2006 at 9:32 amWell I a getting tired of providing facts in regard to UN R1441, in which it is obvious you don’t know what is contained in the text. If you want to say that UN resolutions are nothing to stand on then they really don’t mean anything to you.
Except that you haven’t proven anything. And you’re wanting me to believe you respect the UN sections, yet support a war that the UN was against? That’s hypocrisy.
I think you’re trying to use the UN santions to move the goal posts, without realizing that you’ve moved them to your disadvantage.
According to the Duelfer report produced in 2004…is when these shells were deemed not usable and that is AFTER U.S. troops started to find them all over Iraq.
Comment by Tracy — June 23, 2006 @ 9:04 am
It’s not possible to know everything. You can’t use that to prove negligence.
Read this (it’s a non-issue by consevative government standards. I should take your hairsplitting over their word?):
“Representatives of three intelligence agencies downplayed claims by Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) that they had found the WMD in Iraq. The intelligence officials said the munitions had been produced prior to the ’91 Gulf War, that they had been degraded, and that there is no evidence of post-’91 munitions.”
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:10 am[...] Since I lean toward the first explanation, I don’t see the current administration leaving Iraq no matter what happens. After all, we found no WMDs—that didn’t make us pack up and leave, even though that was the stated reason for invading. Some poor fools are still trying to find evidence and, thereby, justification for the original dubious casus belli. [...]
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:19 am#269
“THe UN charter (as well as the Nurenburg Principles) forbids aggresive war.”
So when we invaded Grenada that was illegal? When Kennedy was about to invade Cuba that was going to be an illegal act? It is NOT up to the UN to determine what another country determines to be self defence. BTW the U.S. did not invade Iraq and remove Saddam’s regime in order to take Iraq over and make it part of the U.S.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/113c/sections/section_2340a.html
This law is for U.S. citizens or those inside the U.S., and no I am not condoning torture, but don’t cite a law that doesn’t apply to the situation at hand.
“Besides which, your dear leaer has changed his rationale several times since the WMD argument fell flat.”
Ever since this invasion started and even before all those rationales you stated have always been
“As for WMDs, you know dammn well if they actually found any they would be shouting about it to the wole world.”
So you think the report that says that the U.S. has collected 500+ chemical weapons shells since 2003 is false and a lie? Not according to Paul who said this in a previous post…
“By the way, here is what the Duelfer report actually says about these shells:
ISG assesses that Iraq and Coalition Forces will continue to discover small numbers of
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:47 amdegraded chemical weapons, which the former Regime mislaid or improperly destroyed prior to 1991. ISG believes the bulk of these weapons were likely abandoned, forgotten and lost during the Iran-Iraq war because tens of thousands of CW munitions were forward deployed along frequently and rapidly shifting battlefronts.”
#276
“Except that you haven’t proven anything.”
Except that Saddam was not or did not comply with UN R1441 and that WMD shells were found and that everyone who said that they were all destroyed were wrong.
“And you’re wanting me to believe you respect the UN sections, yet support a war that the UN was against? That’s hypocrisy.”
“I know you don’t support the war in Iraq and that you
“It’s not possible to know everything. You can’t use that to prove negligence.”
Don’t give me that crap. When we are talking about a government not keeping track of WMDs you have no case. If the U.S. were not able to determine the location of a small nuke of even one chemical weapon shell you know that everyone would be up in arms DEMANDING the U.S. account for it.
“The intelligence officials said the munitions had been produced prior to the ’91 Gulf War, that they had been degraded, and that there is no evidence of post-’91 munitions.â€
That would be relevant if in the text of UN R1441 that these so-called “lost” shells were deemed to be irrelevant and if it was stated that they are exempt from the declaration that Iraq provided. What the intelligence officals said about when these shell were made is irrelevant.
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:08 pmBuying helmets for US soldiers in Iraq is an act that is morally equivalent to German civilians buying helmets for their Nazi soldiers occupying France during WWII.
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:38 pmExcept that Saddam was not or did not comply with UN R1441 and that WMD shells were found and that everyone who said that they were all destroyed were wrong.
The government said he did. This was not why we went to war. Those WMDs are still missing (they never existed or he would have used them when we attacked).
Don’t give me that crap. When we are talking about a government not keeping track of WMDs you have no case. If the U.S. were not able to determine the location of a small nuke of even one chemical weapon shell you know that everyone would be up in arms DEMANDING the U.S. account for it.
Since when do you care what anyone else thinks? You just bashed France yesterday for not spekaing your language to accommodate you in their country. Hardly qualifies you as a global activist.
That would be relevant if in the text of UN R1441 that these so-called “lost†shells were deemed to be irrelevant and if it was stated that they are exempt from the declaration that Iraq provided. What the intelligence officals said about when these shell were made is irrelevant.
Comment by Tracy — June 23, 2006 @ 12:08 pm
No Tracy, you’re only calling it irrelevent because it invalidates your case.
You’re trying to justify thousands of lives and billions of dollars with residue. That’s all you have – inert remnants that didn’t work. That’s not only not WMD, it’s not logical.
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:42 pmTracy – you should go back to arguing humanitarian efforts. Even though those are still inadequate, they are at least better than calling useless shells WMDs…
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:46 pm“Watch out now, take care, beware of greedy leaders
June 23rd, 2006 at 5:15 pmWho take you where you should not go.”
George Harrison
I feel real sorry for Ricks family .. for they have to contend with his propaganda machine like verbage to overcome his opponent in this years Pennsylvania Congressional election. I for one met the guy years ago when he campaigned after he was directed to move to western pennsylvania to run against Doug Walgren.
June 23rd, 2006 at 9:19 pmHe shook my hand .. after which I asked him what he would do if elected and he said
we need to change the way we do business.. and here he is at that point where change has occurred for the best and not for the rest…
Rectum Santorum spews his faeces again….
If Rectum wants to prove that these “weapons” are dangerous, he should go to Iraq and inhale a few. If he dies, he was right. If he lives, he has to admit he was wrong.
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:50 pmWouldn’t burying shells for 20 years and letting them rot (before sanctions were imposed) qualify as destruction, Saddam had more potential WMD in the closet he stored his swimming pool chemicals. Expect these to be “discovered” any day and spun out as “Binary Mustard gas canisters”
They are probably keeping quiet about that now, so as not to tell the folk who see themselves as just like the folk in the Hungarian Uprising.
One would have thought that at least Rove would have thought through the image of which side had the tanks they invaded with and which side was the locals resisting the invaders before bringing that image up.
June 24th, 2006 at 9:24 am[...] In the fantasy world of the Hard Right, Senator Rick Santorum and Michigan Representative Pete Hoekstra attempted to make it look like some old pre-1991 shells lying around Iraq with degraded chemicals in them were the dreaded "weapons of mass destruction" that the Bush administration went to war over. [...]
June 24th, 2006 at 10:42 amIDIOTS LIKE PETE ARE THE BIGGEST REASON FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF EUGENIC P0LICIES IN THIS COUNTRY. IQ LEVELS ARE PLUMMETING AND “LEMMING LEVELS” ARE INCREASING. GOD HELP US ALL IF WE DONT GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATIONS JACKBOOTS SOON! THEY HAVE SINGLE-HANDEDLY SODOMIZED THE PRINCIPLES AND VALUES THAT LENT CREDENCE TO THE BELOVED TERM ” THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE”.
WE ARE FREE – BUT AT WHAT PRICE?
1) WE HAVE BECOME AGGRESSORS
2) WE HAVE BECOME TORTURERS
3) WE HAVE BECOME LIARS
WE HAVE NOW LOOKED INTO THE ABYSS AND WHO STARES BACK…. US
WE ARE NO LONGER THE HOME OF THE BRAVE – THE BRAVE ARE IN IRAQ DYING FOR US EVERY SINGLE DAY
DEATH TO THE RIGHT-WING MOFO’S , MAY THEY ROT IN HELL !!
June 24th, 2006 at 1:26 pmTHE ONLY WMD ARE IN THE UNITED STATES AND ARE FOUND AT THE PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL AND IN THE REPUBLICIAN PARTY THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY, BUT WE DO HAVE THE BEST PAID KILLERS IN THE WORLD, GREAT EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLDS INHABITANTS.
June 24th, 2006 at 2:10 pmanyone posting know the OTHER meaning of th word santorum? Politely said, it is the detritus left after an anal encounter. Fits, really.
June 24th, 2006 at 5:41 pm[...] Umm, Kevin, the answer to that would be no. Shortly after Santorum’s “discovery,” the DoD told Fox News that these were unusable, degraded pre-1991 shells. (Note: saran gas is the less deadly version of glad gas, both of which are made by burning plastic wrap and capturing the fumes in two-liter Mountain Dew bottles. The bottles can then be hurled from moving vehicles with devastating effects.) [...]
June 25th, 2006 at 3:22 pmI can’t believe that this many people hate Santorum.
Actually, if you do the research here are some of the translations concerning Saddam and WMDs. Santorum is not such an idiot afterall…
An undated Top Secret document, written by the Director of Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS), informs Iraq’s military brass of potential Western plans to attack weapon sites. He urges them to shift the materials to keep the programs intact, and deceive the free world:
We learned from one of our sources working overseas that the Western Intelligence Services are working on gathering information on some military and scientific targets in the country, and the mentioned source provided us with a map of the target(s)… we will list for you… these interests and also maneuver to change the places of these targets according to the capability to prevent the opportunity for the enemies and make their plans unsuccessful.
A 1997 memo from the Iraqi intelligence officers demanded that employees swear not to store information about the country’s weapons programs on their computer hard drives. Bill Clinton and the Dems were complaining about Saddam’s WMDs. Now the liberal “mainstream media” and some Dems have complained that “Bush lied about WMDs!”. The truth is that a 2002 memo, one year prior to our invasion, describes “the transfer of Top Secret and Very Important WMD documents from the Iraqi National Monitoring Agency to more secure locations” where it will be nearly impossible for UN inspectors to find them. Saddam knew that Hans Blix of the UN would be easily deceived.
June 25th, 2006 at 7:56 pmIt is hard to believe the highest level of imcompetency in this senator. No wonder this country is so messed up.
June 25th, 2006 at 10:55 pm#281
“The government said he did. This was not why we went to war. Those WMDs are still missing (they never existed or he would have used them when we attacked).”
The U.S. government said Iraq was not in compliance. The reason we went to war was NOT just post 1991 WMD production. You know at this point it would be a miracle if you would actually read UN R1441.
“Since when do you care what anyone else thinks?”
I guess I really don’t considering those that were opposed to taking Saddam out lost the debate when it counted, i.e. the vast majority of Congress supported the 2003 invasion.
“No Tracy, you’re only calling it irrelevent because it invalidates your case.”
In regards to UN R1441 which is what the entire invasion was premised on, tell me how what some intelligence officals say about the inert nature of those found shells makes Iraq not responsible for them?
“That’s all you have – inert remnants that didn’t work. That’s not only not WMD, it’s not logical.”
Are you a WMD expert? How do you know that these shells would still not be considered by UNMVOIC to be WMDs? Please provide something that says that they aren’t…other than your unqualified opinion. You know for a fact the UNMOVIC said that these inert shell would still not be classified as chemical weapons? If these intert shells are so safe then you wouldn’t mind keeping one in your neighborhood or in you house…correct?
June 26th, 2006 at 10:53 am#282
When you actually get educated on the content of UN resolutions I just might be able to continue to have a debate with you otherwise I will wait untill someone who knows what they are talking about shows up in this forum.
June 26th, 2006 at 11:04 amDemocrates are pieces of no good shit.
[url=http://robertlair.com/Blogs/lair/archive/2005/08/29/3561.aspx]Evidence I[/url]
June 26th, 2006 at 1:42 pm[url=http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=10101&]Evidence II[/url]
Shorter Sanatorium: “I’ll have to wait and see what Lord Halliburton says about it before I say more.”
June 26th, 2006 at 11:31 pm[...] Its too bad Mr. Morrison didn’t continue following the story because, if he had, he would’ve have seen that, as usual, Rick Santorum has his head up his own ass. Even a Department of Defense official disavowed Santorum’s idiotic straw clutching. The weapons in questions were pre 1991 and had already been degraded after the first Gulf War. You can watch the video here. [...]
June 28th, 2006 at 12:20 am[...] And what do the right-wing pundits and politicians say? Everything is fine! Progress is being made! Freedom is on the march! We’ve found WMD! Why doesn’t the media cover the good in Iraq? [...]
July 1st, 2006 at 7:03 pmFunyy maybe I read too quickly, but I must have missed the Exit strategy line. I would simply ask this, What is our exit strategy for the War on Drugs? Or the War on Poverty? How about Bosnia, when are we going to finish the job there? Maybe Somalia, now there was a spot where leaving before the job was done worked out REAL well. While I am no Santorum apologist, at least he ACTUALLY backs the Troops. Unlike “cut and run” Murtha. I really hope you libs out there get a clue. Maybe instead of slinging mud you should take some time and actually watch/listen to the other side. Then at least you stand a chance at having your facts correct. Good Luck and GOD bless. :)
July 3rd, 2006 at 6:10 pmOnce again, the discussion turns to the cease-fire agreement signed after the 1991 War to Defend European Oil. Judging from most of the discussion here, it read something like “As terms for the cessation of hostilities, the coalition countries agree to assume that all of Iraq’s prohibited weapons have been destroyed unless the U.S. proves otherwise”. Read the Duelfer Report, last month’s Journal of Foreign Affairs, and other peer-reviewed works. What you’ll find is the 100% consensus that Saddam, at the very least, expected that the sanctions would ‘corrode’, that ‘Jacques Iraq’ and others to come to his aid, and that his own Generals assumed Iraq possessed WMDs. If I rob a bank with a fake gun, I’m not committing a crime, right?
July 5th, 2006 at 4:58 pm…and of course, if they had found a chemical weapons plant with Saddam having the only key to the place, the posts here would have been along the lines of “gee the CIA sure went to alot of trouble to make us THINK Iraq had chemical weapons”. (This was the ready-made excuse I heard over and over in Europe, pre-2003). Admit it, reality at this point doesn’t matter, it’s all about gaining maximum political advantage.
July 5th, 2006 at 5:25 pmBuying helmets for US soldiers in Iraq is an act that is morally equivalent to German civilians buying helmets for their Nazi soldiers occupying France during WWII.
Comment by Simon Cassidy — June 23, 2006
Such stunning honesty, the likes of which most liberals would never admit! Simon shows how the ‘moral equivalency’ argument calls all freedom-minded people to rise up and do…..nothing. On to defending Hugo Chavez next? After all, who are we to judge facist dictators who provide strong leadership to their people, clearly better than the alternative,’disorder’?
July 5th, 2006 at 5:42 pm[...] With Bush’s approval rating in the dumps and the Republicans posed to lose control of Congress, compounded by Santorum’s ridiculous beliefs, statements, and ignorance, it isn’t surprising that his Senate seat is seen as the most vulnerable. He’s fallen into even more controversy recently. Santorum announced in June that “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,†referring to degraded, pre-1991 weapons that the White House already dismissed. The Defense Department and the Pentagon almost immediately disavowed his blind claims. Whoops. Despite Santorum’s support of Bush on 98% of bills, even the White House won’t stand behind their pawn in the Senate anymore. [...]
July 10th, 2006 at 3:12 am[...] With Bush’s approval rating in the dumps and the Republicans posed to lose control of Congress, compounded by Santorum’s ridiculous beliefs, statements, and ignorance, it isn’t surprising that his Senate seat is seen as the most vulnerable. He’s fallen into even more controversy recently. Santorum announced in June that “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,†referring to degraded, pre-1991 weapons that the White House already dismissed. The Defense Department and the Pentagon almost immediately disavowed his blind claims. Whoops. Despite Santorum’s support of Bush on 98% of bills, even the White House won’t stand behind their pawn in the Senate anymore. [...]
July 10th, 2006 at 7:51 amSupport our troops, BACKHAND A REPORTER!!!
July 13th, 2006 at 11:48 pmI get a kick out of you lefties. You are so filled with hate you can’t see reality anymore. Since W “stole” the most counted election ever from Gore in Florida (even though Gore would have been elected if he had been able to carry his “home” state of TN) there has been nothing but the whining of a bunch of three year olds coming from the left. Regardless of the position the current administration takes, the “loyal opposition” will take the opposite. No logic. No reason. No evidence.
The fact is that Clinton thought there were WMDs. Was he lying? Could be. He lied about everything else. We know from even the mainstream media that trucks were moving from Iraq to Syria prior to and shortly after the invasion began. We know from several sources that the Iraqis were actively seeking materials to manufacture more WMDs with. We know that the actual labs needed to only be the size of a small kitchen. We know that they had the technology to make chemical weapons, as well as the ability to deliver them. Lastly, we know that they had used them in the past. Iraq repeatedly thwarted the UN while it weakly tried to enforce its resolutions. And, as a nice little bonus, this PROVES that Iraq was in violation of the UN resolutions that allowed member states to take action.
Can any of you say with truth in your heart that you really don’t think that Iraq had a chemical weapons program before 2003?
Until the Democrat Party begins to pay attention to some reality, they will continue to lose ground in “fly-over country.” And, like it or not, that is where they need to gain traction. As long as the Dems continue to bury their head, or worse, act counter to the best interests of the country for the purposes of trying to regain power, their gaming won’t play in middle America.
Appeasment is not a reasonable strategy. That isn’t how to keep a secure country. Just like with your children, if you keep telling them they’ll be punished if their behavior doesn’t change, but you never actually give them the punishment, their behavior won’t change. One cannot project power without actually using it when needed.
I guess the thing that pisses off the left is that W says what he is going to do, then does it. It isn’t as nuanced as a Kerry responce, like “first I voted for the funding, before I voted against it.”
July 14th, 2006 at 9:15 pmSince a few seem to like quoting the Duelfer Report, we should take a look at what else that report revealed:
Saddam did everything possible in the period between 1991 and 2003 to preserve WMD materials, equipment, personnel and expertise in order to restart his WMD programs when sanctions ended,
He devoted funding to keeping those programs alive,
He was able to game the sanctions system in order to bring in $11 billion obtained illicitly,
Saddam’s regime believed by 2002 they had effectively defeated sanctions.
The conclusion is not hard to reach: The world would now be facing 3 rogue states — Iran, Iraq and North Korea — with active WMD programs, rather than only two, had Saddam not been removed.
What the Left doesn’t seem to get — mainly because they’re too busy lamely repeating the “no WMD in Iraq” mantra — from the anonymous DoD official’s statement is why, if the 500 chemical munitions aren’t dangerous, should U.S. military forces in Iraq bother collecting them? He says simply that their contents are degraded. He doesn’t say they’re useless. And why can’t he tell us where they were found? Why does that represent a danger?
This harks back to the summer of 2004 when the Polish military contingent in Iraq paid thousands of dollars to recover chemical weapons filled with sarin and cyclosarin. The Poles became aware that there was a market for those weapons and resolved to stop it. They collected 17 WMDs at that time. And there have been other incidents since then when terrorists have attempted to use chemical weapons connected to IEDs.
It may well be the case that they could be put to effective use by individuals with sufficient knowledge and skills to know how to use them.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:29 pmMy God. What a bunch of mudslinging. I would like to say that it comes from all sides, but as the views are adolescently polarised, ‘both sides’ is correct.
I just wanted to add a bit of non-partisan commentary to a tiny point on the original article that kicked off the raging the fracas above this post.. It refers to pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed. The document the senators refer to is a summary of classified information, not the classified material itself. This is not too significant, I just include it in the name of accuracy. The ISG refers to a ’small number’ of degraded munitions found. The classified document is a National Ground Intelligence Centre report that refers to ‘500′ degraded munitions. Determining whether ’small number’ and ‘500′ are compatible terms is up to the persuasion of the reader, and if I’d bothered to learn the names of the contributors to this page, I would be able to anticipate the response of pretty much everyone. Hail the one or two amongst you who don’t have or manage to set aside a rabid agenda when you communicate.
To say that the ISH has concluded that there have been found and may continue to be found degraded munitions and conclude that these do not contribute to bolstering pre-war claims is a fair assessment to my mind. But to say that the NGIC document describes munitions that had aleady been acknowledged and dismissed by the ISG is not supported. The classified document may refer to munitions found since, in different condition (possibly more deadly than the ’small number’ found by ISG), and in greater number, even in large stockpiles. The details are not public.
David Kay has since dismissed the senators’ announcements. While his experience lends lends considerable weight to his counter-proposition, it must be remembered that he may not have access to later findings. His words imply as much, borrowing from his past experience.
The unnuanced assertion in the article above is ther kind that draws partisanship like the kind endlessly expressed on this page. All of you have asserted opinion with none of the actual data present. It’s understandable, though; the two senators did exactly the same. From the moment of their announcement, the conversation has been all political and barely analytical.
August 7th, 2006 at 9:05 am[...] hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are ‘not the WMD’s for which this country went to war.’ " Think Progress » Defense Department Disavows Santorum’s WMD Claims __________________ "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think."- Adolf [...]
February 26th, 2007 at 8:13 pm