Santorum: We Found the WMD
Santorum: We Found the WMD
Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) took to the microphone today to announce a shocking discovery — that WMD have been found in Iraq:
Congressman Hoekstra and I are here today to say that we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons. … Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist.
The Bush administration commissioned the Iraq Survey Group to determine whether in fact any WMD existed in Iraq. After a year and half of meticulously combing through the country, here’s what the administration’s own inspectors reported:
While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible Indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.
The White House should immediately announce whether it stands with Santorum or whether it stands behind the review conducted by Charles Duelfer and the Iraq Survey Group. Recall, in October 2004, Bush said of Duelfer’s analysis:
The chief weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, has now issued a comprehensive report that confirms the earlier conclusion of David Kay that Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there.
Fox News isn’t waiting for an administration statement. Their right wing pundits are already peddling the story as truth. Host John Gibson: “Sen. Rick Santorum announcing a startling find … In fact, WMDs were found in Iraq.”
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you mean rick (I'm points behind) santorum?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:00 pmLil Ricky is tanking in the polls. Whaddya expect? Hail Mary faux as hell " WMD" story. Sorry Ricky, you going down in Nov.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:05 pmHe is so full of sh*t. I am so tired of hearing these republicans lie. Don't they have any sense of decency? Do they have no shame? I cannot understand how anyone can still be following blindly behind this Administrations and their coconspirators in congress.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:08 pmThis has the Freepers all in a tizzy. The war is now justified at a cost of 5 dead and 36 wounded US soldiers ($and $600,000,000) per shell. Yay!
Many are questioning, though, why the information was not released earlier. Speculation is that we kept it a secret to prevent al-Qaeda from knowing that such armaments might still be found and used. (Of course, if that's the case, either Santorum has independently determined that these are ALL the weapons we're ever going to find, or he has revealed state secrets to al-Qaeda in a cynical attempt to boost his polls against Casey.)
Personally, I'll assume these shells are long-past-their-freshness-date junk, until more details emerge.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:11 pmOf course, they found them.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:12 pm
#5 Also "up, down and yonder a piece."
June 21st, 2006 at 7:15 pmRick Santorum
June 21st, 2006 at 7:16 pmI'm so sick of Congress I could vomit.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:16 pmwell, let's see 'em!
June 21st, 2006 at 7:18 pmAnd the immediate follow-up question should be "so what about nuclear weapons? You know, the ones that cause the mushroom clouds we were warned about?" Because guess what, when we talk about "WMD," the nuclear weapons should be the biggest piece of that, given the Bush administration's run-up to war. Mushroom clouds, nuclear weapons materials, etc.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:19 pmSeriously, I really dont understand Bush&Co. If they were smart enough and knowing that opposing democrats are suffering a political slumber, why they dont just seed some old, useless, rotten nuclear missile that can borrow from the backyard of Lockheed Martin in Flint? They have gotten away a lot of times...why they dont just do that?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:22 pmHey, if they blew their own WTC to get the Patriot Act marching, you can expect anything from these people.
Does this mean the freepers will be over here tomorrow like a bunch of sore losers too stupid to know that they are being played yet again?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:23 pmHey lookie! Weapons of mass distraction, yonder!
June 21st, 2006 at 7:23 pmWTF is Sanitorium yapping about?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:25 pmWeapons of mass distraction are so five minutes ago.
OK. Great. We found em'. Can our soldiers go home now?!?!
June 21st, 2006 at 7:25 pmThe stink of desperation is pouring out of Congress.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:25 pm#12 Make it an hour.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:26 pm"The weapons did not exist, we've got to deal with that. Anyone out there holding - as I gather Prime Minister Blair has recently said - the prospect that, in fact, the Iraq Survey Group is going to unmask actual weapons of mass destruction, are really delusional," - Former US weapons inspector David Kay
"It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons. It's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there." - Lt. Gen. James Conway, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
June 21st, 2006 at 7:27 pmOh come on guys don't you know? This is just all the old shells that were scattered around the country that we've been finding for the past three years. The stuff Saddam hid and then either forgot about or just never moved because it was mixed in with conventional ammunition and the chances of UNSCOM finding a few dozen or hundred chemical shells in the middle of tens of thousands of conventional ones at an ammunition depot was effectively nil and moving them might have attracted UNSCOM attention.
Which doesn't change the fact that Saddam did in fact hide WMD when everyone from George H.W. Bush to Bill Clinton to Kofi to Dubya said that doing so would mean he was through whether you like it or not. And, whether you agree or disagree, those were the conditions given to Saddam in order to avoid war, from the end of Desert Storm on: give it all up, don't keep the ability to make it, and never try to make it again. The only part of the deal Saddam apparently kept was the last one.
Saying "No WMD" is deliberately lying, but of course you guys don't care about that. Of course Bush talking about stockpiles three years ago was "getting ahead of the news cycle" too...
Jules maybe you're too dumb to understand that a shell filled with sarin is indeed a weapon of mass destruction according to the definition of that rather Orwellian phrase, but I doubt it. You're just scared that that great herd of sheeple known as the American people will hear about this and start liking Dubya again. I'd be scared of that too, since this basically means that both sides either were wrong in 2003 (Bush) or are wrong today (you). Dubya already got away with being wrong... will the Left? Who knows =)
June 21st, 2006 at 7:27 pmBill Frist will now test the shells on cats he adopted from the shelter. If the shells are filled with nerve gas, the cats eyes will no longer be able to follow the balloon around the hospital room.
Or something. This shit is just becoming surreal.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:29 pmYeah, right.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:30 pmSantorum is Latin for bat shit crazy. Santorum is as "factually challenged" as any GOP hack can be. But he's also the poster-boy for the sloppy, sleazy, corrupt, manipulative and factually-challenged clowns who've been running this nation for the past few years, but his and their time will come. When they have to stand tall before the man, they'll have more to explain than a few empty, worthless shells Reagan sold to Saddam Hussein 25 years ago.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:31 pmA day late and a dollar short there Rick.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:31 pm#12 Make it an hour.
Comment by Juan C — June 21, 2006 @ 7:26 pm
Lovely...
June 21st, 2006 at 7:32 pmLt. Gen. James Conway
T
hen, a 3 y/o kid can kick your ass in a poker game, Lt.
Lt. Gen. James Conway
I am as shocked as you are.
#18 It would be nice to know what did Blix or Kofi Annan said at that time. Do you have some post about it? Thanks.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:32 pmI can't wait for whiney Mike DeWine to get into his cache too. Chicken Little.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:34 pmAre we sure they didn't just find the shell casings from OUR weapons of mass destruction that we used on Baghdad?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:35 pm#24 Unbelievable. See post #19. You were just so right about it, woman. ;P
June 21st, 2006 at 7:35 pm#18 Oh, sorry...I thought this was about "threatening" weapons and endangered American lives.
2500 Americans and $300,000,000 is rather a bad bargain in exchange for a "gotcha" on a technical violation.
I think Americans are pretty sick of the war, and smart enough to see this for what it is. Nice try, though.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:35 pmSee, this is what happens someone fails to lock the doors at the sanitarium. It's true, a waste is a terrible thing to mind!
June 21st, 2006 at 7:37 pmMaybe Santorum can tell John Gibson that they've found Natalee Holloway and then Fox News will really be happy.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:37 pmSantorum = Colbert
except Stephen is joking
June 21st, 2006 at 7:37 pm"29 That's $300,000,000,000. My bad.
Oh, and a pisspot full of dead Iraqi civilians. Yay team!
June 21st, 2006 at 7:38 pmJuan,
They are predictable... Now if I could just guess as well on the stock market... :)
June 21st, 2006 at 7:39 pmOnly Fox is reporting on this right now. Santorum's going to be on Hannity tonight to astound the world with this earth-shattering news.
I wish I still had cable. Damn.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:39 pmComment by Chaos
Well, Ok. Bring back the troops now. Mission accomplished, right?
Comment by Chaos
June 21st, 2006 at 7:40 pmyou are wrong, he is wrong, she is wrong, I am wrong...meanwhile, people die. But who cares, I wanna win!... right?
That Saddam must have been busy, singlehandedly hiding those old, useless shells around the country so that an asshole like Santorum could play gotcha. Or maybe the people who worked for him, like the US army that works for Cheney, never make any mistake or screwups. Lame, lame, lame. But big daddy chaos says eat every bite, or no dessert. putz.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:41 pmWow, 18 comments before a lying Republican showed up. I think this bodes well For November.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:42 pmapproximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent
Doesn't 'degraded' mean not functional? Impotent? Like Santorium himself?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:42 pmWhy can't Bush see the WMD picture anew, given new developments? New facts mean that opinions can change in response to the new facts.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:42 pm“getting ahead of the news cycle†cost 2500 of ours, and how many of their's exactly?? Yeah real UN-american dipshit.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:44 pm#34 Unbelievable. Get yourself a big corporation, have some really powerful friends like the one who runs the NASDAQ just to begin with, be suspicious of everybody, thread on anyone to accomplish your goals, and then, I bet you will get lucky.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:45 pmI think this bodes well For November
June 21st, 2006 at 7:47 pmComment by Duane
Sadly, we are few...and I am in another country!
#19, you're the only person here who said "no WMD". The president sold this war on the premise that there were STOCKPILES, TONS, ABILITY TO LAUNCH WITHIN 45 MINUTES. No one here, or in the plethora of reports on the matter, has contested that there are a handful of aging shells scattered around the country. But that's not what we went to war for.
Oh, and have you noticed that we haven't even heard about "WMD related programs" since that canard dove into the gulf?
They had no capability to hurt us with WMD. They had nothing to supply those who would hurt us. Our president lied. About war. That is why no one buys your shit any more.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:48 pmlinking hussein and bin laden, capturing zarqawi, and finding WMD's.......
It took 5 long years of nonsense, but they've finally managed to fabricate each one just before major midterms.
They should feel a real sense of accomplishement.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:48 pmOooooo, what was he wearing?
June 21st, 2006 at 7:50 pmI remember an episode of"Roseanne" where she and Dan find some weed they lost way back before they had kids.
June 21st, 2006 at 7:51 pmComment by Mushuweasel
June 21st, 2006 at 7:53 pmwhich is the very first reason why the invade at all. They knew Iraq had not WMDs. Why dont they attack India or Pakistan, North Korea, or even better, China? Besides being a low-class bully, US is a coward. See these very well-armed countries US invaded: Panama, Grenade, Oriental Timor, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc...
Little Ricky will be on HANNITY & colmes - telling these lies. But hey - Sean loves this stuff!
June 21st, 2006 at 7:59 pmWhat do you got to say now, Michael Moore?
June 21st, 2006 at 8:00 pmYou'll see the light one day Jules!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:00 pm2500 soldiers were killed so Santorum can go on FOX news and announce we found a few of the shells Reagan sold to Saddam Hussein? What a shame. The mushroom cloud Santorum and the GOP will see is what's left of their credibility going up in smoke.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:00 pmMy guess is that Bush put these WMD there.
I don't trust Bush, I don't like Bush, I wish America would have at least notice that he is not a legitimat anything. Hell, he may even be an illegitimate son.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:02 pmAlso, a small dog was found impaled on the end of Senator Ricky's cock.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:04 pmseems to me little ricki just pulled the WMD's right out of his own mystical anus. excuse me while i have gay sex and burn a flag. this madness will never stop. will it?
June 21st, 2006 at 8:05 pmYou libs make are everything that is wrong with this country
June 21st, 2006 at 8:07 pmYou libs are everything that is wrong with this country
June 21st, 2006 at 8:07 pmdegraded. as in UNUSABLE Ricky. Their shelf life was expired... much like your senatorial career.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:10 pmi'm so angry about this that i'm calling on drew barrymore to use her god given fire-starter talents (thank you stephen king) and focus on that little bell jar of death that's in his office. blow it up drew! make it explode! please!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:12 pmThis is the same flat-earth crap that's been circulating on right-wing blogs since 2003. Amazing how Bush is apparently part of the liberal conspiracy to suppress this information.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:16 pm"pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions"
OK to be 'fair' to little Ricky:
Dr. Moonie: "The stability of these materials depends very much on the initial purity and the precise storage conditions. Their usable lifetime as chemical or biological warfare agents, can range from a few months to several tens of years. It should be noted that even partially degraded material may still pose a significant hazard."
from http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/vo030320/text/30320w06.htm
Now to be less fair: These munitions were BURIED in dirt, and found usually in small amounts, not as one huge stockpile of 500 rounds - rusting and rotting - hardly 'precise storage conditions.'
June 21st, 2006 at 8:16 pm#44: your "45 minutes" statement is a lie, a lie i've heard from any number of lying liberals. if you can prove it with a quote from a transript, do so. what will you do now that your "no wmd" lie has been exposed?
June 21st, 2006 at 8:18 pmTerra terra terra - 24/7 - keep it going. Geez, I could look under my sink and find a box of rat poison and claim that it's WMD (in mass quantities, it would be). But, pRick Santorum is just trying to get votes - he's soooo behind in the polls that he's desparate.
What is with these people?
As for the on-going comment about "liberals" - I am sick and tired of my government telling me that I should be afraid when every action they take in foreign policy truely MAKES me afraid. Americans would be welcomed abroad if we weren't bombing the crap out of countries we didn't like. I am truely tired of this shot-gun diplomacy. If that makes me a "liberal" - cool, I like to associate with a better class of people. :)
June 21st, 2006 at 8:20 pm# 63
June 21st, 2006 at 8:22 pmwhat about the 3 years and no trace of a WMD?
Hey, did any of the few wingnut fools wandering in here to troll (#19) bother to check their science, and recognize that sarin precursors degrade within a few years, as does mustard gas (though at a slower rate)? Those shells, from before 1991, were useless. Remember the IED made with one of the old sarin shells that went off a couple years back? The bombers didn't know it wasn't a regular shell, and the thing just popped--the chemicals were virtually inert.
So although these shells may have been WMD at one time, they sure as hell aren't now. Besides, what kind of idiot attacks a city with a chemical warhead? The Tokyo subway attack showed that even in an enclosed space Sarin is far from an ideal way to kill large numbers of people.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:27 pm#63: Some may be misattributing it to Bush. The 45 minutes quote was Blair's particular brand of the same shit-shovelling. Can you seriously deny that the threat was incredibly overblown, and knowingly so? Anyone with actual knowledge of geopolitics before 2003 saw that long before the war went down.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:29 pmSecretive military unit sought to solve political WMD concerns prior to securing Iraq, intelligence sources say:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Secretive_military_unit_sought_to_solve_0105.html
"‘Our President is in trouble. He went to war saying there are WMD and there are no WMD. What can we do? Can you help us?"
The Bush Administration on Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction Capabilities (quotes):
June 21st, 2006 at 8:31 pmhttp://www.carnegieendowment.org/static/npp/bush_admin_quotes.cfm
"Some of these weapons are deployable within 45 minutes of an order to use them."
#20: that's the funniest thing I've read in weeks! Bwaaaahahaha!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:32 pm#57: Bwaaahahaha! I guess if believing in the Constitution is wrong, then you may have a point.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:34 pmjxn: it's part of that "Weapons of Mass Destruction Program Activities" thingie. There is no doubt that people in the middle-east hate America - but it's pretty clear that bombing the crap out of their country isn't going to win any friends. My first witness: Iraq. Next?
June 21st, 2006 at 8:35 pmThere sure seems to be a lot of bitterness on this site. Sadam Hussein was a scarey guy who attempt to kill a former US president. It seems obvious that prewar intelligence was hyped, but it also seems obvious that Sadam Hussein was no saint, rather a very evil dictator who would gladly destroy all Americans, both liberal and conservative. Americans should be happy that at least there is a little bit of evidence of WMD, although it isn't particularly great evidence. Hopefully it will improve our prestige abroud a little. Any American who is not happy that there is a little bit of evidence justifying the actions of its country (although the actions may have been an 'overkill') smacks of someone who is much more partisan than American. Please decide which team you are on, America's or a given political party.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:43 pmHmmm. It'll be interesting to see what Santorum provides as evidence.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:43 pm#57: Bwaaahahaha!
Comment by And You Thought REAGAN Was Stupid. — June 21, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
i thought that #56 was even funnier, more appropos...
June 21st, 2006 at 8:46 pmWhat?!
June 21st, 2006 at 8:47 pmFox's John Gibson is wrong about the WMDs being recently found?
I guess he had better go back to trying to produce lots of white babies.
Degraded sarin is only 10% effective after two years. Assuming the shells were from
the time of the Iraq-Iran war, the sarin would be almost neutralized;
Iraq mass produced sarin during the Iran-Iraq war with the expectation that it would be used quickly, and they therefore skipped several purification steps. Fresh agent was about 60% pure and heavily contaminated with hydrogen fluoride (which, of course, also causes health problems in exposed individuals). When production caught up with demand, the Iraqis started storing their sarin in refrigerated "igloos" to prolong its storage life. However, even when stored in the igloos, the material rapidly degraded, becoming less than 10% pure within 2 years.
This was one of the factors that lead the Iraqis to investigate binary weapons, for which sarin is particularly well suited. A project (described in the revised "Full, Final, and Complete" disclosures issued by Iraq after the defection of Hussein al Kamal) was established which achieved some success in the design and construction of binary munitions using 122 mm rockets and 155 mm artillery shells, although the project does not seem to have progressed to full scale manufacture. This is not so surprising - as can be inferred from the seven year gap between the first successful U.S. binary shell test firing and the standardization of a design, the actual implementation of the binary concept is somewhat complex. There is no evidence that more than a few hundred binary shells were produced - more than were needed as prototypes, perhaps, but nowhere near what would have been needed for use against the Iranians had the war continued.
But, while they still had not mastered the art of manufacturing binary munitions in which the mixing of the precursors occured after firing ("mix-in-flight") at the time of the invasion of Kuwait, they had developed a simple process for generating the agent immediately before use: a warhead or bomb would be given a partial fill of isopropanal (and often cyclohexanol, a precursor for the related nerve agent GF, sometimes known as cyclosarin) and stored along with plastic containers of methylphosphonic difluoride (DF). Shortly before the munition was to be used an Iraqi soldier would be provided with a gas mask and would pour an appropriate amount of the DF into the munition. This reduced storage issues.
While sarin does not appear to have been intentionally released during the Gulf War, a link between Gulf War Syndrome and the possible release of sarin during bombing raids and during the destruction of weapons depots following the war has been suggested. The issue, at this writing, is far from settled.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:50 pmAnyone care to guess which electronic voting machines are used in Pennsylvania? The fix is in. Republicans need not even show up to vote. My guess is 51% R to 49% D, as always.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:53 pmYou libs are everything that is wrong with this country
Comment by shootTHElibs
June 21st, 2006 at 8:53 pm====================
I'm certain that most KKK members,skinheads,and Nazis would agree with you.
This shit came out a couple of years ago and was debunked for being in such small and degraded amounts. My guess is that Santorum is hoping people forgot.
There sure seems to be a lot of bitterness on this site.
Yeah, people are dying.
June 21st, 2006 at 8:59 pmFox News is eating this up like super-sweet candy! Sean Hannity is having orgasms on the air as this is reported.... go figure. WMDs - yeah right.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:01 pmBen--What little credibility America had was gone with our decision to invade a soveriegn nation who posed absolutely no threat to us. As I have said many times on many blogs, we need our leaders to be strong--the world needs this Administration to be strong. Sadly, they just are not up to the task. After 9-11 we had thew whole world behind us--our choice was to make 9-11 a political tool so Rove could divide America "You're either with us or with the terrorists." Our only real choice is to get the hell out of Iraq and say "Sorry." This is really a sorry bunch we have leading us.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:01 pmSantorum has lost his following, and he is now reduced to pandering to the wacked-out loonies who remain in his camp.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:02 pmEven the Preznut said there are no WMDs in Iraq. After Blix, ElBaradei, Kay, Ritter, Duelfler and others have said there are none, nada, zero.
Ricky is not feeling well - let him go lie down and rest.
Gibson, go get him a cold cloth for his head - and one for yourself while you're at it.
[...] just make shit up, and no one ever calls them on it. Permalink| [...]
June 21st, 2006 at 9:04 pmpathetic... keep the lies
June 21st, 2006 at 9:04 pmBluto's Beard,
Its even on his own Website:
"The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given. The regime has long-standing and continuing ties to terrorist groups, and there are al Qaeda terrorists inside Iraq. This regime is seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material could build one within a year." - President Bush 9/28/2002
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020928.html
June 21st, 2006 at 9:06 pmI havn't read even half off all of your cockimammy comments! Why you hate the U.S., our troops and yes - unborn babys I'll never know! Go Bush! Go Santorum! I'm voting for you, and because you are pro-life! Thank you for speaking the truth!
Female
June 21st, 2006 at 9:07 pmPhoenixville, PA
[...] Think Progress has the full rundown. My favorite part: Think Progress calls on the White House to immediately state its position on what Santorum and, apparently, Michigan Congressman Pete Hoekstra are claiming. Was the Duelfer Report right, or is Ricky right? Official administration investigation on WMD in Iraq, or out-of-context, declassified document written by a Defense Department lie factory in 2003? That's quite an awkward position for them. [...]
June 21st, 2006 at 9:08 pmI havn't read even half off all of your cockimammy comments! Why you hate the U.S., our God-fearing President, our troops and i'm sure - unborn babys I'll never know! Go Bush! Go Santorum! I'm voting for you, and because you are pro-life! Thank you for speaking the truth!
Female
June 21st, 2006 at 9:08 pmPhoenixville, PA
Let me guess - Limbaugh, Hannity, Fox News, + the Wall STreet Journal will pass this off as truth as tomorrow's main story, CNN will follow by the weekend, + the NY Times will blast "The Left" (anybody who disagrees with Faux News) for being wrong by TUesday.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:14 pmWow supporting the killing of 2500+ innocent American soldiers and 100,000+ innocent civilians is "pro life" in the skull of a right winger. (Just like Bush's environmental and health care policies as well huh)
June 21st, 2006 at 9:17 pmthis is the most sexed up propaganda ploy in days, weeks, months, even.
right after the frontline program too, by golly.
give it up repukes, it's over. go home and cry about it.
the war is lost. it cannot be won. a war that was to last six weeks, six months at the most and at a cost of sixty billion dollars is a complete flop.
i guess if the 'republicans' want to believe their own lies, they can. they're out in left field with this silly war business.
thanks for bankrupting the country too, ya dumbasses.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:18 pmEven if true, does this even matter anymore? aWol's bogus war has proved to be the wrong war at the wrong time, diverting energy away from rooting out OBL from his mountainous spider hole. It has proven to be a major source of funds for the military-industrial complex that Ike warned us against, and a killer of innocents.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:22 pmWhy you hate the U.S., ,
Don't believe the hype. We LOVE our country. That's what this is all about.
our God-fearing President
He had better fear God for all of the Murders he is responsible for, but somehow it doesn't seem like enough for him to stop, now does it.
Honestly, (and I only ask that you ask yourself this question). What actions or policies do you think make Bush a true follower of Christ?
our troops
We do, that's why we want to see an end to this war of deceit and lies. Do you hate our troops? Do you want to see to it that they all become murderers? In that case, all you have to do is keep it up and stay willfully ignorant of the truth. Or, you can join those of Conscience and start to probe and question for the Truth.
and i’m sure - unborn babys I’ll never know!
Not everyone here is Pro-Choice. I am sure that it would help you to see the world beyond terms of Black and White. They use the issue of Abortion to get you to come out and vote for them and nothing more. Looks like you fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Thank you for speaking the truth!
Not a chance. Please wake up.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:22 pmLike his announcement makes any difference. I know people who still think (even before lil' ricky's announcement) that we found WMD's. Those who want to believe will believe.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:27 pmComment by Ben
June 21st, 2006 at 9:28 pmRumsfeld didnt seem so affected by that fact when he was shaking his hand. You know...as friends.
The Pharohs killed slaves who worked on and knew the secrets ot the Pyramids.
Look for a spate of special opts people disappearing, the ones who planted these munitions months ago.
In the event these are really Saddam's munitions, it doesn't change that fact that Bush is a liar and an illegitimate holder of the office. He is still the "little wooden head" Pinnochio with the strings still attached.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:29 pmComment by Pro-voke me nausea
June 21st, 2006 at 9:31 pmpost 1991 war this just plain stupid, 500 cannester. WOW!!!!
June 21st, 2006 at 9:34 pmLOL...Yeah, right Rick "Come Play With Your Dead Brother" Santorum, whatever comes out of your mouth is sure of nothing but the truth Rick. There were no WMD's in Iraq in the first place man...
June 21st, 2006 at 9:36 pmYou can be sure this refuse will also get heavy play on the festered butt pimple show as well as newsmax and gopusa.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:39 pm"degraded" means they were no longer functional. So what is little Ricky's point? Why is he trying to mislead the American people?
June 21st, 2006 at 9:40 pm"DEGRADED" is the key word here.
There are more mustard gas shells off Assateague National Seashore than that -- and in better shape. They were dumped all over the place off the US coast after WWI.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:42 pmSantorum: We found the WMD. They were next to the holy grail and Jimmy Hoffa´s body and
June 21st, 2006 at 9:43 pm19) "Jules maybe you’re too dumb to understand that a shell filled with sarin is indeed a weapon of mass destruction according to the definition of that rather Orwellian phrase, but I doubt it."
Maybe I'm just reading this wrong.. but how the hell is "weapon of mass destruction" an Orwellian phrase? Maybe if they were instead referred to as "puppies and kitties bombs" it would be Orwellian.. I read this guy's post four times trying to figure out what the hell he is talking about.
Does the right simply believe that Orwellian means "very scary"? See this is what happens when right wingers try to use concepts from classic literature. Next we'll find someone in here talking about how this is like blood on Macbeth's hands, or how it's like a sleeping princess has been woken up by the kiss of the prince.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:46 pmLet's see: latest poll that just came out has Ricky down by 18 points and falling. Whallah!! WMD's he finds. And where did Rick find them. I thought he was still in S. Philly eating a cheesesteak at Geno's.
June 21st, 2006 at 9:51 pmNext he'll have the terror alert code raised to red. Wasn't that what Tom Ridge did every time Bush dropped in the polls before the 2004 election?
BTW, there are no unborn babies. There are fetuses. Born fetuses are babies. No one hates unborn babies. They hate politicians who demand you live the way they want you to live.
Hey man... like wow ahaahhhaahaa this sounds like the cops busting ya for finding seeds under your car's floor mats and stuff.uhaa haaa hahahahaa
June 21st, 2006 at 9:55 pmWikipedia has a good entry on this topic. Here is a quote:
As of May 2005, small quantities of chemically degraded mustard gas had been found in old munitions. These are generally regarded as left-overs from the pre-sanction era before the 1991 Gulf War which were not destroyed by the Iraqi regime.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:03 pmWith all of the spy drones that flew around freely, intel and weapons inspection searches, they found nothing within the first three months. It would be an honerable thing to tar and feather this idiot. I'm tired of the lies and the spreading of fear, uncertainty and doubt by people like this. Anyone fitting the FUD factor should be swept out of all areas that pertain to leadership in our government.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:10 pmThe report says they've found 'degraded' sarin and mustard gas, as well as 'filled and unfilled' shells. Why they'd count empty shells is beyond me.
And 'degraded' means stale. It's likely that this is stuff left over from the Iran/Iraq war and probably poses as much of a health risk as working at a chemical plant. Santorum's stretching the definition of Weapon of Mass Destruction to include weapons extremely unlikely to cause any destruction.
It's bullshit, pure and simple, from a desperate rightwing fool sinking like a stone in the polls during an election year.
-----
June 21st, 2006 at 10:11 pmhttp://griperblade.blogspot.com - grumblings from the heartland
Our local fox affiliate here in Minnesota ran the substantially the same story that little Ricky is trumpeting. Santorum wasn't mentioned in the story so it looks like the RNC is trying to muddy the waters with recycled talking points.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:16 pmWhat garbage is this? Do they really expect people to believe this? Well, besides those who watch Fox News, which gave this discovery top billing. This is just a sick publicity stunt by Santorum.
http://www.sunstateactivist.org
Check out the BRAND NEW SSA: BLOG at SSA. Fresh and insightful opinions and analysis of the latest news.
Also - Has there been another Haditha?
June 21st, 2006 at 10:19 pmhttp://www.sunstateactivist.org
#86 & 88 - How many adopted children live in your house?
June 21st, 2006 at 10:21 pmGet over it, you all were for it years ago when the lib went in. Good man to get rid of. Quit all the hating. How about joining together.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:21 pmQuit all the hating. How about joining together.
Comment by NormalOne — June 21, 2006 @ 10:21 pm
should've thought of that when it was just a blowjob...
June 21st, 2006 at 10:27 pmfool.
#63, as #85 and others pointed it out above, the 45 minute claim was made BY YOUR PRESIDENT. I'm glad you agree that he's a liar. But tell me, does it ever actually physically hurt to be so uninformed?
June 21st, 2006 at 10:27 pmshould’ve thought of that when it was just a blowjob…
fool.
Blowjob? I could careless, how about NAFTA and the slight military adjustment. Think
June 21st, 2006 at 10:30 pmI'm on America's side. Which is still the side of truth, fairness and decency. Which makes it not the side this administration is on.
Not only was that gas useless, but Iraq had declared it in the 1990s (they calculated the figures from estimates).
In 1998 10 artillery shells filled with mustard gas were found by UNSCOM. They asked Iraq to keep them where they were. In 2002 when they went back they were still there and UNSCOM destroyed them.
June 21st, 2006 at 10:33 pmRick Santorum is a good senator...
June 21st, 2006 at 10:37 pmfor me to poop on.
[...] Today, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) held a press conference and announced “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.” Santorum and Hoekstra are hyping a document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed. [...]
June 21st, 2006 at 10:43 pmMy favvvvvorrrrite part about all this is that Rick is losing so terribly in the polls, but happens to be the only person with the knowledge to get this intelligence out. This WMD matter if true would be huge, and a press conference and giant deal would be made. Not some dumb speech on C-SPAN. :|
June 21st, 2006 at 10:54 pmWMD Found In Iraq!...
Well, at least that is what Rick Santorum and Captain's Quarters want you to think. And it is all based on a *.pdf (signed by John Negroponte, of course) that says this:
June 21st, 2006 at 10:59 pm* Since 2003 Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions...
For anyone who follows what is going on, this is not new information. There have been findings of chemical munitions shells ever since we entered Iraq in 2003. Most people don't know this, because they get their news from cartoon characters.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:01 pmIf there was anything to this at all no way would Santorum be announcing it. Cheny, Rumsfeld, and Condi would be holding multiple press conferences. Let Santorum have the glory? When hell freezes over. (and those three will be there for that, too)
June 21st, 2006 at 11:03 pmRemeber people, 52% of Bush voters in 2004 REALLY and TRUELLY thought that Iraq attacked us on 911...The PITA(sp) survey bore this out.
The people who vote for Bush aren't the sharpest tool in the shed so dont use words like "degraded" to describe what was found because the word is one syllable to long.
Us words like "useless" or "dont work"
thx
June 21st, 2006 at 11:09 pmOh my god!!! Who, other than the lowliest right winger would believe that if this was an actual story that fricking Santorum would be the one to break the news??? Run away from this story wingers, there is nothing to see here.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:13 pm[checks wristwatch]
... way too early in the campaign season for this crap to be flung out already, isn't it?
June 21st, 2006 at 11:16 pmLet Santorum have the glory? When hell freezes over. (and those three will be there for that, too)
Comment by ss
That should have been Santorum's first clue -- but he's clueless, so there you have it.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:21 pmBy the way Normal, how about taking that ESL class you have always wanted.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:21 pmOh, and Pro-life, Pro-Bush, nobody is surprised that you would vote for Santorum. It is really too bad NCLB is such a failure.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:24 pmI have never seen so many people hold on to a fantasy as long as these people have over WMD's. They probably still believe in Santa Claus too.
June 21st, 2006 at 11:51 pm[...] Rick Santorum, one of the Republican senators facing reelection this November makes a profound announcement today [via]: Congressman Hoekstra and I are here today to say that we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons. … Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:11 amAre these the shells that say "Made in the USA" on them?
You know, the ones that have a packing list that says payment required, net 30 days - send invoice to Don Rumsfeld.....
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:33 amCaption Contest
Santorum: We Found the WMD
True but they're in North Korea.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:37 amWhy are most libs so dumb. The vast majority of leftist comments I read on this post are just stupid. All you do is keep repeating your cute little bumper sticker slogan's like "Bush lied, People Died". The only thing you care about is blaming Bush and making him look bad, regardless of actual facts. So I'm not even going to attempt to speak to the dumb ones. For the few intelligent libs who may read this, I have a couple points I'd like you to ponder:
1. The Bush Administration didn't want this report published because it doesn't substantiate the WMD claim. I don't agree with these two republicans trying to make a point out of this.
2. Why are libs so down on President Bush, somehow you have to find a way to personally blame him for everything that is wrong in the world. Let me tell you, personally I didn't like Clinton that much, I didn't agree with a lot of his decisions, but I respected the man and supported him because he was the President. I kneeled down and prayed for him many times that he would have wisdom and make good choices, even though I was politically on the other side of fence. Because here's the thing, the president gets the best info he can and then makes the best decision he can.
3. The war was totally necessary regardless of WMDs, and Bush knew it. If it was your job to fight the war on terror how would you go about it? How about establishing a Democracy in the freakin middle of the middle east. It's a brilliant idea and it took a lot of balls to accomplish, and guess what, it's working. The middle east will never be the same.
4. The troops can't come home yet. This one is so completely obvious I'm stunned that we even have to talk about it. I guess I am going to talk to the dumb libs after all. Regardless of whether we were right to go in or not, now that we have we are committed. You don't go into another country, topple the goverment and then leave. I'm sorry but you're an idiot if you think otherwise and this has nothing to do with politics. It is so obvious what would happen if we left early and you smart libs must know it. I want to hear a smart libs opinion on this. Why pull out now? After the controversial decision, after the lives have been lost, and the money has been spent, why pull out now that the large costs have already been paid?
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:10 am"Why are most libs so dumb."
Did you mean: Why are most libs so dumb?
You asked the question, you can answer it.
It is a no brainer that the war is a war of choice. The neocons wanted the war. They have made their own bed, and they can sleep in it.
It may be true that that the US military can't pull out of Iraq now. It also might be a distinct possibility that they may never get out. It is war. War is hell.
The Bush Cabal and the neocons underestimated the strength of the freedom fighters. There are no guarantees. None. Period. When you go to war, there is a chance you can lose the war, especially when you invade. Aggressors have the odds against them from the getgo.
General Sherman's words:
HEADQUARTERS MILITARY DIVISION of the MISSISSIPPI in the FIELD
Atlanta, Georgia,
James M. Calhoun, Mayor,
E.E. Rawson and S.C. Wells, representing City Council of Atlanta.
Gentleman: I have your letter of the 11th, in the nature of a petition to revoke my orders removing all the inhabitants from Atlanta. I have read it carefully, and give full credit to your statements of distress that will be occasioned, and yet shall not revoke my orders, because they were not designed to meet the humanities of the cause, but to prepare for the future struggles in which millions of good people outside of Atlanta have a deep interest. We must have peace, not only at Atlanta, but in all America. To secure this, we must stop the war that now desolates our once happy and favored country. To stop war, we must defeat the rebel armies which are arrayed against the laws and Constitution that all must respect and obey. To defeat those armies, we must prepare the way to reach them in their recesses, provided with the arms and instruments which enable us to accomplish our purpose. Now, I know the vindictive nature of our enemy, that we may have many years of military operations from this quarter; and, therefore, deem it wise and prudent to prepare in time. The use of Atlanta for warlike purposes in inconsistent with its character as a home for families. There will be no manufacturers, commerce, or agriculture here, for the maintenance of families, and sooner or later want will compel the inhabitants to go. Why not go now, when all the arrangements are completed for the transfer, instead of waiting till the plunging shot of contending armies will renew the scenes of the past month? Of course, I do not apprehend any such things at this moment, but you do not suppose this army will be here until the war is over. I cannot discuss this subject with you fairly, because I cannot impart to you what we propose to do, but I assert that our military plans make it necessary for the inhabitants to go away, and I can only renew my offer of services to make their exodus in any direction as easy and comfortable as possible.
You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war. The United States does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling. This feeling assumes various shapes, but always comes back to that of Union. Once admit the Union, once more acknowledge the authority of the national Government, and, instead of devoting your houses and streets and roads to the dread uses of war, I and this army become at once your protectors and supporters, shielding you from danger, let it come from what quarter it may. I know that a few individuals cannot resist a torrent of error and passion, such as swept the South into rebellion, but you can point out, so that we may know those who desire a government, and those who insist on war and its desolation.
You might as well appeal against the thunder-storm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way the people of Atlanta can hope once more to live in peace and quiet at home, is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride.
We don't want your Negroes, or your horses, or your lands, or any thing you have, but we do want and will have a just obedience to the laws of the United States. That we will have, and if it involved the destruction of your improvements, we cannot help it.
You have heretofore read public sentiment in your newspapers, that live by falsehood and excitement; and the quicker you seek for truth in other quarters, the better. I repeat then that, bu the original compact of government, the United States had certain rights in Georgia, which have never been relinquished and never will be; that the South began the war by seizing forts, arsenals, mints, custom-houses, etc., etc., long before Mr. Lincoln was installed, and before the South had one jot or title of provocation. I myself have seen in Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi, hundreds and thousands of women and children fleeing from your armies and desperadoes, hungry and with bleeding feet. In Memphis, Vicksburg, and Mississippi, we fed thousands and thousands of the families of rebel soldiers left on our hands, and whom we could not see starve. Now that war comes to you, you feel very different. You deprecate its horrors, but did not feel them when you sent car-loads of soldiers and ammunition, and moulded shells and shot, to carry war into Kentucky and Tennessee, to desolate the homes of hundreds and thousands of good people who only asked to live in peace at their old homes, and under the Government of their inheritance. But these comparisons are idle. I want peace, and believe it can only be reached through union and war, and I will ever conduct war with a view to perfect an early success.
But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter.
Now you must go, and take with you the old and feeble, feed and nurse them, and build for them, in more quiet places, proper habitations to shield them against the weather until the mad passions of men cool down, and allow the Union and peace once more to settle over your old homes in Atlanta. Yours in haste,
W.T. Sherman, Major-General commanding
http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/sherman/sherman-to-burn-atlanta.html
General Sherman wanted peace not war. The neocons could learn a lesson from his wisdom. Too bad that it is too late.
The US military is defeated already in Iraq. The time to get out is now, while the getting is good.
Have a nice evening.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:40 amThis news is so damaging to the left that they, like always, have to tie in their conspiracies so that they don't have to admit that they were wrong.
If it was O.K. to impeach Bush over 'lying' about WMD's in Iraq, is it now O.K. to impeach the House dems for lying about them? I think it's time!
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:57 amWait, I thought the weapons were moved to Syria (another country the PNAC people want to invade, wink wink ;) )
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:44 amAn interesting response (#135), you didn't exactly state your position on the war except:
"The time to get out is now, while the getting is good."
This doesn't seem to me the same sentiment that General Sherman would have, based on the statements you quote above:
"To secure this, we must stop the war that now desolates our once happy and favored country. To stop war, we must defeat the rebel armies which are arrayed against the laws and Constitution that all must respect and obey. To defeat those armies, we must prepare the way to reach them in their recesses, provided with the arms and instruments which enable us to accomplish our purpose. Now, I know the vindictive nature of our enemy, that we may have many years of military operations from this quarter;"
General Sherman wanted peace, but we was prepared to "reach them in their recesses" and notes quite likely there would be "years of military operations from this quarter", and yet he was quick to condem those who started the war by saying they "deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out".
So to summarize, he was for peace, but was prepared to do what it took to accomplish it. Which meant more warfare for years to come, the relocation of the inhabitants of Atlanta and the burning Atlanta.
So it's a matter of semantics at this point. We both agree with Sherman. But if I have interpreted your statements correctly you believe that Bush, or the Neocons started the war and I believe that Iraq is a mere battle in a larger war that we did not start. Iraq is just like Atlanta, we need to go in so we can "reach them in their recesses". And because this is not a conventional war we can't simply go destroy them and go home. They do not come out in the open or reveal themselves. That is why we have created a democracy in Iraq. This is how we are fighting the enemy and this is why it is absolutely crucial that we remain in Iraq, until we have accomplished our goal. Of course it might not work, as you stated, "There are no guarantees. None. Period. When you go to war, there is a chance you can lose the war". But what choice is there? Shall we sit back and do nothing and wait for another attack on our own soil? Or will we do as Sherman stated he would do, "I want peace, and believe it can only be reached through union and war, and I will ever conduct war with a view to perfect an early success."
You quote Sherman and yet absolutely contradict him with your last statement, "The US military is defeated already in Iraq. The time to get out is now, while the getting is good." Please explain this.
The progress in Iraq is going faster then expected in my opinion. They have formed a goverment faster then New York has been able to agree on how to rebuild the WTC, and there are many other good indicators that the situation there is improving, if you're willing to see them. Also, by what logic can you possibly call the insurgents in Iraq "freedom fighters"? Iraq is free... now. It is governed by the Iraqis for the Iraqis... now. So by what qualification do you call those that oppose the new free Iraq "freedom fighers"? They are not fighting for freedom. They are fighting for Jihad. Which isn't really a reason, it's just what they've been told to do by those who wish to establish a new dictatorship or theocracy.
Sherman declared he would "ever conduct war with a view to perfect and early success" for the cause of peace. He was determined to fight and win. Losing was not an option. Sherman did not say that we should get out now, while the getting is good, the liberals and democrats who oppose the nation's efforts to win this war could "could learn a lesson from his wisdom".
We have the greatest military might and the greatest economy in the world. There is likely only one way we can lose this war, and that would be if we decide give up.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:49 amSince we are supposed to believe that this alleged discovery is a fact, we need to know all of the details. Sen.Santorum said that he and Rep.Hoekstra FOUND the WMD in Iraq. I wasn't aware that they were over there conducting a search for them, how brave of them. And THEY were able to find what 3 different teams of real weapons inspectors, and the US Military could not. WOW, that is just so ... hard to believe, and I don't. I wonder if he would agree to take a lie detector test? Probably not, as he is a crappy liar. Even BushCo finally gave up on this one.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:54 amWE HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE A CHANGE....KICK THEM OUT, VOTE
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:55 amThe large costs have already been paid, huh?
So that's why electricity and oil ouputs are back up above pre-war levels! That's why the Iraqi army is fully trained and standing up! That's why we've been able to cut our reconstruction spending! That's why the newly formed democratic Iraqi government is on top of things and running in the black!
Oh wait. No.
We have the greatest military might and greatest economy in the world.
What we don't have is a military branch dedicated to peace keeping and nation building. Our military doesn't do that. It wasn't designed to do that. The UN, for its entire history, has been the leader on those fronts. But they're not in Iraq. Why? Because rather than access their resources, we decided to keep it In House. We've pieced together an ineffective, corrupt patchwork of companies that has been a leach on the reconstruction effort. Billions upon billions of dollars have been soaked up, but the Iraqis see little to no reconstruction, high unemployment, and wealthy foreigners getting wealthier by the day. And since the fall of Saddam's government, I see no evidence that our military is there for anything other than protecting this racket.
Oh, and by the way, the war that the administration said would cost $50-60 billion, worst case, and likely pay for itself has blown past $300 billion on a breakneck pace toward $1 trillion and beyond. At the same time Bush and his rubber stamp Congress pushes tax cut after tax cut putting us trillions more in the hole. Do you know how many times the federal debt limit has been increased in the last 5 years? Are you looking forward to the day when the federal government can afford to pay the interest on the debt and NOTHING ELSE (not even the military). Conservative trend lines put that point 40 years away. How old are you? Do you have children?
I'm sick of this. Good night.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:27 amSo, if these recently discovered WMDs are so inert, so harmless, will any of you Bush critics be willing to be enclosed in a room with them and have them release their contents? I mean, after all, Bush is full of it and so obviously these shells are 100% harmless, right? Oh, can you invite Hillary to join you in this enclosure?
Come on, put your life where your mouth is. Go for it!
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:42 ampretty funny. You would have to bring the wmds individually to the shut-ins house. these freaks aint been outta the basement in a long time
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:22 am#142- Alright, I will. Can you make the arrangements? Although, the 'WMD'can only be handled by Scott Ritter, or someone he trusts. Cause those 'Righties' will do ANYTHING to 'win', and cannot be trusted to not tamper with things. But then, if I live, I want BushCo to capture Osama, like he swore he would do more than 5 years ago. And they will have to do it in 30 days. If they don't, the entire Bush administration must resign from office immediately, and all Bush appointees must resign as well. Do we have a deal?
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:18 amHave some compassion for them. Psychologically it's a whole lot easier to cling to the fiction that they were right on WMD than to admit responsibility for hundreds of thousands of people.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:27 am#142. Here's a deal, we'll send Santorum to get them. Then you can take pictures of them. Then you show them to the families of soldiers who were killed, and explain that getting these 20 year-old rusty things was worth their deaths.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:31 amPsychologically it’s a whole lot easier to cling to the fiction that they were right on WMD than to admit responsibility for hundreds of thousands of people.
Comment by clb72 — June 22, 2006 @ 9:27 am
DING! DING! DING!
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:39 am[...] The last embarassing bit was his recycling of a years-old report of our discovery in Iraq of buried and degraded 25+ year old mustard and nerve gas, left over from the Iran-Iraq War, no doubt delivered via Donald Rumsfeld and stamped with "Made-in-the-USA". These reports have been throroughly discredited by everyone and their grandmother, but to a member of the legislature, especially one is trouble in an election year, anything looks like a lifeline. You know it's bad when both FOXNEWS and the Department of Defense discredits you. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:59 am[...] Think Progress is outraged, noting correctly that WMD in Iraq had never been found in large quantities, as shown by the Kay and Duelfer reports. And until Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi was recently blow’d up, he was alive. TP’s problem is probably that big, internationally-backed “survey groups” were again unable to find WMDs that ordinary US soldiers and Iraqis discovered. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:18 am[...] ThinkProgress.org [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:22 am[...] Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) and Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) are hyping a document that describes degraded, pre-1991 munitions that were already acknowledged by the White House’s Iraq Survey Group and dismissed. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:23 am138:
You select various quotes from General Sherman's letter to support your position. However, here is one that you did not use:
"I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace."
George Bush and the neocons cannot make the same statement. Contrary to what you may think, it was the Bush Cabal that advocated going to war with Iraq.
Saddam Hussein was recruited by the CIA way back in the late fifties to do their dirty work. He was their man during the Iran/Iraq war. Donald Rumsfeld was slobbering all over Saddam when he shook his hand in the infamous photo.
When the time came for Saddam to be discarded, the Bush regime didn't hesitate.
Who is responsible for this war? The neocons and the Bush Cabal.
General Sherman also stated that he did not want anything that the residents of Atlanta had.
Not so with the US government as it now exists. That new embassy in Baghdad has plans and desires for the resources in Iraq.
You built a strawman. They're not hard to knock down.
The war could have been prevented by simply not invading Iraq and by simply using diplomacy. That is not what the neocons wanted to do. War was their choice. They have bit off more than they can chew. They're guilty of being wrong-headed and foolhardy. Wisdom is something they don't have. Their interpretations of the 'National Intelligence Estimate' is woefully lacking.
They don't know if they are afoot or horseback.
General Sherman knew exactly what he was going to do. He was going to share a cracker. The neocons don't even want to share a crumb. They are going to lose, and it isn't going to be pretty.
Again, I will reiterate, the war was to last six weeks, maybe six months at the most, and at a cost of sixy billion dollars. Anybody gullible enough to think that is just plain stupid.
If somebody bombed your home or farm, killed your wife and children, would you thank those who bombed your property and made you grieve and suffer? Or, would it anger you? Would you forgive them or would you want revenge? Adjust your priorities to meet the realities, not concocted 'realities' by some nitwits who want to wage war for profit and greed.
wise up
June 22nd, 2006 at 10:51 amdang, only dumb libs now, where did the smart lib go? I was looking forward to his response to #138. The rest of you bunch stop yapping, you make me sick. You just like to hear yourselves talk and won't participate in a real conversation where things are actually discussed.
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:07 pmoh Ron, you came back!
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:08 pm134 ssuede7:
1. Agreed!
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:13 pm2. Not to be disrespectful, but please get your head out of the sand inre to bush doing the best he could with the info he received. bush is a puppet doing what he's told, period. With that said, you could rightfully say, "Hey the little dope was only following orders!" You would then be absolutely correct. You could also say bush didn't have a full(or even partial)grasp on the situation, but absolutely NOT that he did what he thought was best given the intel, unless you think he was lied to by his handlers. Hmmmmm, that could be a distinct possibility, couldn't it?
3. Why was the Iraq war totally necessary? Is that the answer when there's a difficult situation? We had Saddam totally contained, limiting airspace, destroying radar and anti-aircraft emplacements, economic sanctions, etc. He was no real danger to anyone except his own people, but now they are better off? Oh, gee, I didn't think so... As far as the middle east never being the same, you got that right, at least.
4. The troops can't come home yet... DUH! See, this is what really sickens me. The bushies knew that once they got their foot in the door, then they were set. "Oh my, we CAN'T leave now, and leave those poor Iraqi's helpless!" You'll hear that no matter what happens over the next serveral year. It's a win-win situation for the bushies; too bad it's a lose-lose situation for the military and MOST of America, say, other than the elite 2%...
Brit Hume and his other talking heads as well as most of the Republican echo chamber talked about WMS as if everyone knew this was a fact last night. The other line is the "cowardly cut and run dems" that they keep harping on. Expect to about a billion dollars spent on labelling the dems as cowards in the next election. It will unfortunately probably work as people vote their fears and this election will be all about fears. They will sell once again that the dems can't be trusted with our security and that only they can stop the "disseased drug dealing" immigrants from coming in. That diseased and drug comment was from a Republican candidate for congress! Remarkably like Hitler's comments about the Jews isn't it?
June 22nd, 2006 at 12:53 pmAgain, you define Iraq as the war and I define it as a battle in a larger war, which we did not initiate. Therefore is Bush is justified under this logic.
I believe there may have been another way to approach the problem, but that doesn't mean the way we chose was the wrong way. Bush made the call, and we will see how it goes.
I don't believe Bush has any interest in Iraq except in regards to stability in the middle east and the war on terror. Can you offer any proof that his intentions are only to line his own pockets? It is mere opinion on your part and yet you filter all of your positions through this sinister vision you have of the man, or his group.
Also, it is totally appropriate the the US, government and US companies as well as others should have business interest in Iraq. It's an opportunity for a new market. The US will invest in Iraq and the Iraqis will see more economic prosperity then they have previously known. We invested in Japan and we invested in Europe, those two areas are doing well today.
You didn't address my question about your use of the term "freedom fighters".
Again, to summarize, I think we both agree with Sherman's words, but you see a group of corrupt leaders trying to enrich themselves on the suffering of others and I see a President who is honestly seeking to make the world a better place and willing to make decisions in order to get the job done. His actions make sense to me. I doubt we will ever agree on this point.
But you should agree with me that the path Bush has taken us down has to be followed for now. We paid a huge cost to do what we've done and must finish what we've started, else we will never know if it works or not. It is still premature to pull out troops. And after the majority of troops do go home, we will certainly maintain a base there. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe we still have bases in Germany. Our continued presence in Iraq will be nothing but a blessing to the Iraqis.
And let me address your last statement. How would I feel if I lived in Iraq and my house was bombed by the US invation force and family members died? I would be sad and probably somewhat distressed. But I would not blame the US, I would blame the people who made it necessary for the US to come in. I would want freedom and would be grateful that somewhere in the world was a group of people who were willing to pay the cost to help my country and therefore give the family members that survive a chance at a real life.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:10 pmI just love that clever saying, "Cut and run". And then there's the homey yet catchy, "Homeland Security". It makes me want to puke; I've had conversations with repubs who actually say, "Oh, so what are we going to do? Cut and run?" Or some such variation, but they all echo the "Cut and run", like a fu**ing mantra. As far as the repub candidate making racial/ethnic slurs, I think we've already seen the true colors of the present admin and it's party... Pretty scary stuff. If you look at how Hitler seized power and the things he said and did right up to the bloody end, (even sacrificing children), it is mirroring what's going on now with the present administration. They are using Hitler's rise to power as a model. As far as the '06 and especially the '08 elections, I keep hearing, get out and vote! We'll oust them beginning in '06 and then complete the job in '08! Didn't Democratic candidates already win in '00 and in '04? I think this proves my point about the repubs using the Nazi model for takeover. One more thing I keep hearing, "We're headed toward a police state!" Duh.... We are already there, look around and look up the definition of police state....
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:13 pm157 ssuede7 :
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:29 pm"How would I feel if I lived in Iraq and my house was bombed by the US invation force and family members died? I would be sad and probably somewhat distressed. But I would not blame the US, I would blame the people who made it necessary for the US to come in." ssuede7, you ar SO full of sh*t! Do you expect anyone to swallow that? If it's true, then you are either a saint/martyr or an idiot. If someone did that to me and my family, I would be livid, and so would you, once you were done mourning. This is what kills me about you and your ilk; you are so far removed from the war in your comfy little home, with your SUV and flat screen hi-def TVs and South Beach diets... God help you if you ever have any real strife or ever have to go hungry for a couple of days...
#155 nikolai
Point 3, we have already established, and it was obvious from the beginning that Saddam was not really the main reason for going into Iraq. Yes he was a brutal dictator and yes his people suffered. And those a good reasons why he should have been removed. But the real goal was to effect a change in the greater middle east. Step back and look at the larger picture. The Neocons outlined this plan before they ever took office. And they were voted in, by a slim margin to be sure, but voted in none the less. Thus their plan is quite controversial because the nation is so divided now-a-days. But they are living up to their word and ideas and I for one think the plan has a good chance of success. And, probably just about 50% of American's feel the same way. They identify with this type of strategy. And the other 50% are absolutely pissed. I wonder what our foreign policy is going to be like in 20 years, this 50/50 split can't last forever.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:30 pmin response to number 159, hey don't get me wrong, I would be pissed. But I would see it as the Iraqi governments fault not the US. Granted my opinions are based on a lifetime of knowing and loving freedom and were I born in Iraq I probably wouldn't have the insight that I do right now. But the person that I am right now would react exactly as I have stated. I know where my sentiments lay and it's not necessary for you to accuse me of misrepresenting myself. If I were deprived of food and car, etc, it would only make me more resolute in those sentiments. I would blame Saddam, not the US.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:45 pm[...] Think Progress did a great job of refuting Santorum’s wacky comments. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:47 pmWHAT A BUNCH OF TIN FOIL HAT WEARING, TOTALLY IN DENIAL, SHIT FOR BRAINS IDIOTS, YES THERE WERE WMDS AND YES TERRORIST WERE TRAINED IN IRAQ.
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:47 pmWHAT ELSE COULD WE EXPECT FROM PEOPLE WHO THINK MICHAEL MOORE IS A FILMAKER. THE ADHD LIBERAL MONKEYS OF THE WORLD WILL NEVER ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG.
ssuede7; Yes, the military industrialists are doing this for the good of all mankind; make war to make peace, you know, like fu*king for virginity... Don't you realize there's a powerful organization in the U.S. gov't more secretive than the CIA or NSA dedicated toward creating war (which was started by Truman)? What they say GOES. Don't you understand there are people making BIG money from this war? You bet the country is split! That's the thing that I really don't understand. The right half says they're religious, "Thou shalt not kill", but they support this illegal and immoral war. They must be benefitting from it, or at least think they are benefitting from it somehow... Tell me, how are YOU benefitting from it ssuede7? Also, how in the world are we going pay for this war year after year? The situation is bad in Iraq, and it's bad in the U.S.A. How much worse are we going to let it get? Are we going to continue to
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:55 pm"Stay the course" when the course is suicide? Tell me ssuede7, honestly, how much longer should we go on this way with Iraq? 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years? Really, I would like to see how long you think is too long to be there. If the present situation in Iraq were to continue the way it is now, please answer me this; how much longer should we stay?
163: Stay out of it, troll-sh*t-for-brains-"genius"-of-evil....
June 22nd, 2006 at 1:57 pm161; Suede, what if Saddam were not the reason you lost your home, car, family, etc, but from a direct hit from a 500(227k)lb U.S. bomb? You would blame Saddam? That's the thing the right does that just torques my gourd; they twist and pervert everything then point fingers the other way, you know, like Ann Coulter. Suede, you can't tell me that if you were a little shoe repair guy in Bagdad with a little shop under your little apartment doing an ok business under Saddam's regime, that you wouldn't want to get back at the U.S. if they bombed your business/home/family into the past. Would you say, "Oh, Saddam was a very bad man, and I understand he brought this on our country. I must be patient and hope for the best, even though my life is in a complete shambles." OR, might he say, "Saddam is a bast*rd, but now we have an even bigger bast*rd on our hands.. Saddam killed my cousin, but the U.S. killed my family." That's just it suede, you are not there, and you are not him, so you can't put yourself in his place; you see, that's the problem with the republican right, they see things only from their perspective and don't give a damn about anyone who disagrees with them, they only look upon them as the enemy...
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:15 pmBlack is white, good is bad, and they've got 'em.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:22 pmLie and die is more than a soundbite. It's the sad truth.
We should maintain a strong presence for probably another 3 to 4 years and then gradually reduce troops to a minimal level and maintain that level for at least 10 to 20 years, if not the next 50.
If you want to bring religion into this, have a look at the old testament. Religious hardly equates to lack of war. Religious peoples fight and kill to protect their way of life. And if not, they perish or allow their way of life to be controlled by others. Christ himself stated he was not come to bring peace on earth, but division. Not to say he didn't want peace, but he knew his teachings would cause conflict on a large scale. But his point was, there is a right and a wrong, and it's worth it to fight for the right. It's the classic battle between good and evil. The reference is Luke 12:51-53 if you care to look it up, but perhaps we are getting to religous for you, let's return.
I will state for the third time, we didn't start this war. Have you forgotten the lesson of 9-11? There is an organized force that wants to destroy us. If we do not proactively fight them, then they will win. Since they are not a country, we have to attack the culture that produces them. Iraq is currently the center piece in this effort.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:38 pmFox News is what it is, an employee pool for White House appointments. So much for "fair and balanced reporting." A glass of Bias anyone?!
I'm a veteran of this war although I did not see action first hand (but have witnessed many fellow soldiers come back dissillusioned, confused, pissed and, some, never came back). I signed up at the request of a buddy in the Air Guard Chaplain Corp. I, like many Americans, bought into the sale on this war. You know, all the bullshit about Hussein was a threat, had WMD, the "mushroom cloud" statements, etc, etc.
It should be absolutely obvious to anyone with half a brain and can think on their own (without resorting to Neo-Con bullet points) that this whole war was a Project For A New American Century plan (PNAC, just recently disbanded I understand) just waiting to be rolled out. And then we had 9/11. 9/11 became PNAC's "red carpet" and they rode that baby for all its worth!
BushCo took weak (at best) "intel" and fabricated the best possible case for war with Iraq. BushCo, as now retired intel CEO's tell it, ignored the larger truth of the intel (i.e. Hussein was NO threat and intel stating the opposite was thin and shakey at best) and "cherry picked" this weak crap to "make the case" for war. Is it no accident that there has been to date NO Congressional investigation into "the use" of the pre-war intel??? (one was planned but the Senator from Kansas has successfully "tabled" this Part 2 of the 9/11 Commission for, again, obvious reasons to the fully informed).
Listen up people, BushCo believe, TRULY BELIEVE, in this long standing plan (again, see PNAC for resources on this) for the Middle East (and the world for that matter). Neocons are not stupid, they are not robots nor are they "evil" in our midst. What makes these flesh and blood people and their ideology so destructive and dangerous is because they REALLY BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE!!! Therefore, the leadership of this ideology (BushCo & Friends) will stop at nothing (and justify anything) to see their "God given plan" go into action and be "fulfilled."
As a prior chaplain in the miltary (retired December 2005), I have witnessed first-hand religious "Christian" fanaticism and certitude ride this same "red carpet" to satisfy their own global outcomes (i.e. Second Coming Millenialism) on the backs of PNAC. Frankly, I don't see much difference between their "hopes and dreams" and the dreams of post-suicidal terrorist on the other side of the world! They both don't give a damn, ultimately, about the future of the only planet and the only human family we will ever know and have. Again, it is this ideology that is TRULY BELIEVED and, therfore, is really the danger that befalls us (Christians, Muslims, Humanist, all...).
I think it's time we stop thinking in terms of liberals and conservatives, Muslims and Christians (although I have errored on this usage admittedly), and start thinking in terms of what is good for people, children, land, etc. Some guy born in a barn (Jesus) once said "those who live by the sword shall die by it." War proves that. History proves that. And those who disagreed with Jesus killed him to prove that (yet they grossly miscalculated that Jesus' ideas would outlive their empire however!).
Afghan's own President said, just today, that we need to truly find the truth about this war and the answer to terrorism not by doing "business as usual" (i.e. stay the fight until victory), but by seeking the underlying reasons and ideology the fuels the hatred and violence. Only then would we have a real chance to rid our human story of the "Cain & Abel" cycle
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:51 pmof killing. I think their President is finally getting it. It's easy to be called a humanitarian when you are concerned about war, poverty and hunger. But to actually seek the causes for those problems takes a "walking in their shoes" that requires a personal investment of time, courage and wisdom. Great people of peace in history, including Jesus, did it! Many, like him, gave their life for it. Their witness to truth and peace is the only truth worth dying for. Not for a rich man's war paid for by the blood of the poor.
responce 166, that is exactly what I am saying. Just because you can't fathom yourself being that way doesn't mean it isn't possible. If the US bomb killed my family that would be my reaction. Now let's suppose I was pissed at the US because I didn't understand the larger picture. It doesn't change anything. The US cause is not any less just because the iraqi version of me doesn't understand it. In the long run more lives are going to saved then lost because of our actions in Iraq. You point out the few that have sufferred because of what we have done, well what about thousands or millions that will suffer and perish if we do nothing. Don't you care about them? Could a controversial war in germany have prevented WWII, you bet ya. And people like you would have complained till they were blue in the face about how it wasn't fair and that innocent people died. Well how many innocent died because nothing was done about hitler until it was too late.
You may not believe in the threat the middle east posses, but the Islamic leaders and peoples have proved time and again what their aim is. They want to destroy our way of life, and our freedom and make us live in their theocracy. And it's not just us, it's anyone who isn't them. They are not good neighbors and their countries produce strife and terrorism and war. They started it, not us.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:59 pmPlease ask the question, what measure are we using to gage wheather the Iraqi police/troups are ready to defend themselves? If we start drawing down our troups then the Iraqi troups can stand up. If we are there they have no incentive to work, train and take over.
June 22nd, 2006 at 2:59 pmPOST # 63 RE: 45 MINUTES On Sept. 28, 2002 Preznit Dubya asserted "The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more, and ACCORDING TO THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given."
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:10 pmYou are *QUITE* welcome.
168: suede, 3 to 4 more years, huh? Do you think we can last that much longer? I'm glad to see you say you are for a gradual pullout; now we're communicating on a common, sensible ground. I say start the gradual withdrawal sooner, but that's ok.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:25 pmNow, as far as 911, to borrow a phrase from Ronnie Ray-gun, "Well, there he goes again." Why do you believe 911 had anything to do with Iraq? Man, the bush admin really spun that one hard and people really bought it; or did they? I personally think they just use it to "better" their argument, when in reality Iraq had nothing to do with 911, nor was Iraq a training ground for terrorists; Afghanistan, now that's a different story. As far as the Bible, the old testament is no more, if you are going to quote and/or go by Christ, please "stay on course"; you are either Jewish and believe in the Old Testament, or are Christian and believe in the New Testament, ok? Now, as for the worn out argument for war by quoting the Bible, that only counts for righteous wars like WWII, not when you launch an unprovoked act of war; I really don't think Jesus would have agreed with the Iraq war, do you? As for your statement, "it’s worth it to fight for the right. It’s the classic battle between good and evil." Is it really? It is a fight for the right, all right, the right wing, that is, for they are making LOTS and LOTS of money. One more thing, there you go again, with the worn out phrase, "lesson of 911". The "lesson" of 911 is that a bunch of Saudis flew 2 airliners, into 2 buildings; if we are going to be proactive in fighting terrorism, then why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia intead of Iraq? Oh wait, I know why, the Saudi's OWN 22% of the U.S.A. Business is business after all! I can't help but cringe when I think about what a Greek aquaintance said. He even said it like a mafia Don... After dinner we were discussing the Iraq war, and with a toothpick in his mouth he uttered, "Hey, it's only business", calm as a cucumber. That's what I disagee with, and that's what the bush administration is all about, business, only business; THEIR business, that is...
I believe Santorum also found, while flying one of those Iraqi un-manned arial drones (capable of reaching NYC from Bagdad), aluminum tubes buried under the Niger yellowcake forgeries, next to the mobile chemical labs that Curveball (pre-war known fabricator) told Chalabi (known lying sack of crap and spy) about which was relayed to BushCo before anyone outted a CIA agent.
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:38 pm170 suede; There you go again beating another right wing dead horse, comparing Hitler to Saddam. Saddam was COMPLETELY contained! There was no way he was a real danger to anyone (except his own people)after the Gulf War. Yes, he was a very bad man, an evil dictator, I think we all agree on that, but Saddam was stopped at his own borders, and even within his own airspace; Hitler was not. To compare the two is ignorance, plain and simple. Now before you get pissed, consider this, I merely stated the facts here. That's another thing that gets me about the hard-right; they get MAD when you try to have honest debate, and get REALLY mad, when you prove them wrong, and then start flinging the non-sensical "arguments" and insults; that's why they idolize Ann Coulter...
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:47 pm[...] And he’s got WMD!!! Wait, that’s his aftershave. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 3:53 pmresponse 173:
Iraq didn't have much to do with 9-11, I've said that. It was the greater middle east we were interested in effecting. No argument there.
The old testament and new testament are in perfect harmony as far as they are translated right. There are many religions that still promote both. In fact, this year my christian church is making a special study of the OT. And the old testament applies to more people than the house of Judah. There were 11 other tribes. You're probably related to one of them.
You say we should have invaded Saudi Arabia not Iraq and yet you say Afganastan was a different story. Well who was it. If the Saudis did it, then why is it ok the go into afganistan?
We are at war with Islam, not Iraq. I have no problem admitting that.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:09 pmGuess I won the argument against suede... WHOO WHOO WHOO!!
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:09 pmresponse 175, I didn't say saddam was the potential hitler, I said it was the greater middle east, please stop confusing my arguments. Iraq is only a threat to us in terms of it's membership in the greater middle east. None of what we have done is justified when considering Iraq alone.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:17 pmDang, I thought you gave up... Ok, guess I'll have to explain (sigh) why I said why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq, and Afghanistan is a different story Than Iraq; now, read slowly and carefully...
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:20 pmThe reason I said why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq is because MOST of the 911 terrorists were SAUDI not IRAQI! Get it? The reason I said Afghanistan is a whole other story, is because the TALIBAN/OSAMA BIN LADEN were operating from bases there, again, NOT Iraq, ok? There, did you follow that? Was it really all that hard to understand? Now as far as who I'm related to, I'm dubya's ninth cousin, and I'm directly related to Charlemagne, William the Conqueror and Julius Caesar; and you?
Are you trying to convince yourself?
What makes you think any of this banter will produce a winning side?
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:23 pmS179 suede; so the greater middle east is our enemy? What are you saying?
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:24 pmI'm the winning side suede, as I have presented facts, not opinion as you have; I believe that if we were debating as pols or students or in a bar(but probably not your partisan church), I would be judged the winner. There, now you know who the winning side is...
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:29 pmThank you for explaining that, you are correct. And I've explained that I don't see a direct link between 9-11 and Iraq, you are correct. I have also explained why I think we did go into Iraq. It is related to 9-11 ultimately. As Iraq is related to the middle east.
Now, back to the bible, the lost 10 tribes of Israel were taken captive and then of their own volition headed north. Most bible scholars believe this path lead them through Turkey and then straight through the heart of Europe and from there is sketchy. However, large parts of the tribes particularly of Ephraim pealed away from the main group along the way to settle whatever land they were passing through. Thus it is probable that nearly everyone of European decent has some of the blood of Israel running through the veins. OT Prophecy also confirms this, saying the blood of Israel would be scattered among all nations of the earth. But beyond the European region there is virtually no record.
My ancestors as far back as we can trace were huguenots that fled religious persecution in france and settled in the netherlands and then England. That's one side, the other is also English. I don't know any big names though.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:40 pm[...] It has been a few months since I started a ‘blogwar’ for criticzing a righty-blogger who doesn’t like to hear it, but I have to today. Evidently, Mainstream Iowan believes the retarded claims coming out of Rick Santorum’s (R-PA) mouth. Yesterday, he and Rep. Pete Hoekstra had a press conference to announce…THEY HAD FOUND WMD. OOOH. AHHH. Ahem, except, the report was bunk and the DoD even said so. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:42 pmI'm glad to know you have declared yourself the winner, congratz.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:43 pmAnd yes, I am saying the greater middle east is the enemy, and by greater middle east I am strongly infering Islam. But no ones dares call it that.
Also, this debate is the last thing we would talk about during church. We don't debate politics at church.
And if we were being judged on this debate you would only win if the judges were libs and I would only win if they weren't. I don't pretend otherwise. This is a paritson issue. I have used just many facts as you. And you have used just as many opinions as I have. You believe in what your saying and so do I.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:51 pmssuede, your "arguments" rely consistently on appeal to higher authority. You are useless.
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:54 pmOkay, now you are talking a little more sense, but I still don't agree with your thinking on Iraq and 911. You said, " I have also explained why I think we did go into Iraq. It is related to 9-11 ultimately. As Iraq is related to the middle east." So, first you said you didn't necessarily agree that Iraq was connected to 911 in you earlier post, but then you said you did in your last post. Which is it? With all due respect, I think you are confused or at the very least listening to bush co, FOX news, and Ann Coulter and not researching and thinking for yourself. Look, you seem like a nice person... Do yourself a big favor and research this on Google before it is all gone, as the gov't is slowly quashing what it deems inappropriate, and I'm not kidding, the good old US of A is becoming a police state. Why do you think the "Liberals" are getting so upset? Do you think it's because they hate religion? That's what Ann Coulter spews, and it is nothing but bitter, petty bile. Do yourself a favor and take a good look at what's going on in this country; really research it and keep an open mind and you will see; don't take my word for it, check yourself and you will find out a lot of things that will scare you. Now, if you don't want to be scared (but enlightened), don't look, after all, ignorance is bliss
June 22nd, 2006 at 4:59 pmresponse 188: You only see it that way because you're a lib. By your logic I can always say the same about you. Talk about worthless. All you wanted to do was inslut me and trying to explain my point of view.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:07 pmSuede, I can't believe you are saying the whole middle east is our enemy. You are talking Christianity -vs-Islam, right? Well, if you firmly believe someone is your enemy, perception is reality, right? Proof doesn't matter, is that it? Man, that's pretty bad, saying a whole block of countries is "The enemy". If so, it's because "we" made them the enemy. I guess it's not worth it to look at why the Islamics are pissed off to the extent that they would strap a bomb to themselves to blow up whomever, huh? I would say it's because they feel they have nothing to lose; THAT is what should be addressed first and foremost in the "War against terror." The bottom line is, we will side with Israel right or wrong, and will be against MOST arab countries but not all, including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc. The ones who own a piece of US will be spared, right? Oh wait, they ARE us! "We have met the enemy, and they is us" ---Pogo
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:11 pmOk suede, I'm a "lib", OUCH! That hurt; "Conservative" has such a nicer ring to it, don't you think? Left is left(misguided, wrong, liberal,evil) and right is right(conservative, religious). Who came up with this terminology? It must've been someone on the far correct, er, ah, I mean the far right. As far as insulting you suede, you are giving me SO much ammunition; the part about the enemy being the entire mideast was priceless... You were kidding, right? You are really going to turn out to be Jim Carrey or Robin Williams, right? C'mon, spill it!
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:20 pmhttp://www.voteprime.com/2005/05/santorum-definition.html
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:31 pmNo 63 you are the one who is ill informed.
The fact is that Bush repeated Tony Blair's absurd claim on September 26, 2002 & repeated it again on his weekly radio address on September 28.
The excerpt below is a quote from Media Matters:
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:31 pm
Ssuede, you don't know who I am. Just as I don't know you. But in this discussion you speak of what you believe. I and others speak of our beliefs in terms of morality as well as policy and politics, and then actually, you know, back it up with WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE WORLD. That's a step you oh so conveniently skip.
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:40 pm195 Mushuweasel: Yup, that's the problem, all bluster and fake religion and insults=
June 22nd, 2006 at 5:56 pm"Compassionate Consrvatives" Their "compassion" consists of only bombing people with brown skin, that's why they were so pissed at Clinton in '96... Oh, wait, it was because he was right and quickly eneded the genocide... Oh, but wait, BAD CLINTON! He ended the genocide of "The Enemy", e.g. Muslims. NOW I get it!!!
response 189: I never listen to Ann Coulter, I don't care for her style. I don't get my news from Fox either, I don't care for it. I research topics as they interest me mainly through the internet. While being very conservative in terms of the war I embrace serveral liberal ideals on social policy. I believe in charity and peace more then anything else, but I also feel we are there is a very real threat to our nation as we know it and I respect Bush's efforts in this regard. His plan is brash to be sure, but I think it has a good chance of success.
The relationship between 9-11 and Iraq is a geographical one. We are injecting our way of life into the heart of the region of the world that is producing Islamic Fundamentalists. While it was not Iraq itself that is doing this primarily, it's neighbors are. If a democracy can work in Iraq I can think of no greater blow to Bin Laden and his ilk. He (Bin Laden) is fighting a war of idealogy. We have returned in kind. We have forcefully put our idealology into Iraq. If our idealogy (which is democracy) is superior, we can expect it to have a tremdous impact on the rest of the region and hopefully we will see other Arab nations warming up to the idea of freedom and free markets and free government. It is going to be very interesting to watch.
Regarding our own country, I can't go into that now. But you're observations are correct.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:01 pmresponse 195:
I can list facts for anything I've said, but they wouldn't matter to you. You have no interest in this debate. You've made two comments so far and both just proclaim that I'm wrong. So your correct when you say I don't know anything about you. You haven't said anything. The funny thing is you're doing exactly what you are saying I'm doing. You're first comment was pretty much worthless and your second comment assumes total correctness based on morals without any facts to back it up. Seriously make a contribution or shutup.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:17 pm197 suede; you hit the nail on the head when you sid we were "injecting" our idealogy into the middle east via Iraq. That's precisely the problem; these people will NEVER accept a democracy. For one, it's coming from a Christian nation. Two, we are going to inject democracy after bombing them to oblivion? Three, how long is this going to take? Four, what about Iran? If we keep up the hard line with Iran, which we will(and I don't necessarily have a problem with that)it's going to weaken our position in Iraq, and last but not least, that brings us to five, which is, if we hadn't invaded Iraq, we would be in a much better position now to deal with Iran, in that we would have plenty of troops at the ready, and Iran would know we meant business. I think one of the biggest mistakes/miscalculations of the bush administration is that they got it backwards in rushing into Iraq. The bushies figured it would be a cake walk, and then ooh-la-lah, all those lucrative contracts and delicious, rich, OIL! If anyone should have been invaded, it was Iran for wanting to nuke Israel, but that came later and we were (stupidly) already deep into Iraq. Iran is the real threat of WMD and a radical Islamic state willing to use them.
June 22nd, 2006 at 6:30 pmresponse 199:
If the Japanese people accepted a democracy I have to believe the Iraqis can. There is a precident for it.
Two, yes we are going to inject democracy after bombing them.
Three, I though we discussed my opinion on how long it would take. 3 to 4 years more with our troops at full strength and then many years after that maintaining a minimal presense.
Four, this is a good point. The thing about going into Iran is, we won't risk it unless they do something crazy. They have nukes. We won't risk open warfare with them unless they force our hand. We will use diplomacy all the way on this one, all the while doing our best to improve Iraq's status quo. A healthy Iraq will only increase the pressure on Iran to play ball.
Five, It is as you say, although we do have a real big base right next to them. That's an asset, although it could also be a liability. But I don't think it's going to come to that. The push will be diplomatic. If Iran makes any miss step they have to deal with the UN, US and Israel. They will push the boundaries as far as they can and try to continue developing their nuclear capability. Meanwhile we will be promoting democracy next door. All we need to do is get some healthy trade agreements going and suddenly Iran will have a lot to lose.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:00 pm[...] And Think Progress points out that the DoD report cited by Santorum and Hoekstra contains information that weapons inspectors and the DoD had already analyzed. They concluded that Iraq had not restarted its WMD program, and that the munitions found did not constitute a threat. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:19 pmBoy, suede, that's a lot of "ifs"... What worked in Japan worked because they were totally and utterly defeated; they had NO choice, and also because of the Japanese culture. The Japanese are servants to their conquerors; that is something that is deeply ingrained into their ideology, whereas the Islamics WILL NOT accept anything Christian. This is why we should have come up with another plan rather than invading Iraq. We should have given diplomacy a chance, but heh, heh, heh, then it might have worked and Halliburton, Betchel, Blackwater, etal, wouldn't have been able to make all that money, and we wouldn't have gotten all that oil- Whoops! We still don't have the oil, but the oil men in office will not give up; hell, we're not there to inject democracy, we're there to inject oil rigs! Why should the bushies give up? Their kids and taxes aren't involved (well, maybe a little bit of their tax money, but they are making it back in spades with the lucrative no-bid contracts...now if they could just get that oil...). One last thing, I don't know if I agree with you about only using force as a last resort in regard to Iran; this administration has shown they have a cowboy mentality with an itchy trigger finger, so I pray you are right, but in my heart of hearts I feel that is probably not the case....
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:20 pm[...] And Think Progress points out that the DoD report cited by Santorum and Hoekstra contains information that weapons inspectors and the DoD had already analyzed. They concluded that Iraq had not restarted its WMD program, and that the munitions found did not constitute a threat. [...]
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:28 pmThere is nothing Christian in Democracy is there? The Iraqi constitution was written by Islamics. Granted we made suggestions. I don't see any aspect of religion here. Infact don't democracies make a pretty big deal about keeping the church and state separate. The only connection I can make here is that they view it as a christian type government because we use it. But there are plenty of non-christian nations that are also democracies.
I really don't think we will see action in Iran. The last thing Bush needs is a nuclear explosion on his hands. Plus 2008 is coming up, he doesn't have a lot of time to make a move like that. Plus since the cold war, there has never been a confrontation between two nuclear nations. If Iran has nukes it's a whole different game. Plus now that we have Iraq, we have an alternate tactic to use. Ideology war instead of nuclear war.
June 22nd, 2006 at 7:59 pm204 suede; Well, church and state are sure being blended now, and by the people who started the Iraq war! So, your point is "blunted" right? Also, it might be just the move to jump on Iran then declare martial law, or at least reason enough in SOME people's minds NOT to change horses in the middle of the stream, like in 2004. repub election assured, or so they think... Never say never, suede...
June 22nd, 2006 at 8:45 pmWhy are most libs so dumb. The vast majority of leftist comments I read on this post are just stupid. All you do is keep repeating your cute little bumper sticker slogan’s like “Bush lied, People Diedâ€. The only thing you care about is blaming Bush and making him look bad, regardless of actual facts.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:22 pm===================================
So,Bush didn't lie,and tens of thousands of people didn't die?
I suggest you contact Fox "news".
Yeah, and bush doesn't need any help looking helpless, dumb, lost, etc,
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:31 pmAnd let me address your last statement. How would I feel if I lived in Iraq and my house was bombed by the US invation force and family members died? I would be sad and probably somewhat distressed. But I would not blame the US, I would blame the people who made it necessary for the US to come in.
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:31 pm========================================
Somewhat distressed,huh? How inhuman of you.
I know, some of these folks are so far emoved from reality it's laughable...
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:34 pmHave some compassion for them. Psychologically it’s a whole lot easier to cling to the fiction that they were right on WMD than to admit responsibility for hundreds of thousands of people.
Comment by clb72
June 22nd, 2006 at 9:42 pm=======================
You are no doubt correct,clb.There are heightened emotions on both sides of this issue.
[...] You may have heard yesterday that Little Ricky Santorum and House Intelligence Committee chair Peter Hoekstra claimed that WMDs were found in Iraq. Both of them soiled themselves yesterday with this claim. The intelligence community and the Pentagon have come out and undercut the claim by pointing out these munitions were degraded pre-1991 shells that the David Kay/Charles Duelfer Iraq Survey Group already knew about. Santorum then got the joy of hearing that the Pentagon thought he was out of his mind from Fox’s Alan Colmes. [...]
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:15 amIt is absolutely hilarious to seeyou liberals spin!
FIVE HUNDRED WMD shells are found and you say "Oh we knew they were there. This is an OLD story! NEXT!"
ROTFLOL
"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
--John F. Kerry, Oct 2002
June 23rd, 2006 at 7:54 am[...] Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan saw these images this past Wednesday and immediately took their story to the press: “Congressman Hoekstra and I are here today to say that we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons. … Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist.” -from Santorum: We found the WMD, ThinkProgress.org, 21 June 2006. [...]
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:05 amSO I SEE THE LIBERALS ONCE AGAIN COME TO THE DEFENCE OF THE TERRORISTS - IF THESE 2 PART SARIN ARTILLERY SHELLS TURN OUT TO BE TRUE THEN THEY ARE STILL A VIABLE WEAPON ONCE AGAIN OUR TROOPS AT RISK MEANS NOTHING TO THE GOD HATING SOCAILISTS CALLED LIBERALS - MAY I SUGGEST SENDING ALL WMDS FOUND TO KERRY, KENNEDY AND MURTHA'S OFFICE FOR CONFIRMATION?
June 23rd, 2006 at 8:46 pmI am a Terrorist if it means taking the bushco down. Civil War is likely. There are over 200 million powder actuated weapons in this Country and you can't count how many IEDs could be constructed by the Populace.
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:57 pmThis is one Pennsylvanian that won't be voting for Santorum. Statements like that say that he should be in a sanitarium and not the seneate. He is an embarressment to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
June 24th, 2006 at 1:10 pmSantorum is yet another chickenhawk Republican whore who simply needs to extract King George's hand from his pants before his statement are credible.
June 24th, 2006 at 7:09 pmWhy can’t you people rather democrats or republicans quit bashing Bush and this whole mistake of a war as you say. Yeah guess what? They did find WMD, and your simple agenda minds act like its no big deal. It was a big deal when they weren’t there but now that they are, no big deal. Saddam wouldn’t let the UN inspect until he said they could. To me meaning he was moving them. If the cops knock on your door you can’t say comeback tomorrow. We’ll hell yeah you won’t have any drugs or guns when they come back. Most of you won’t understand what I’m saying cause it’s not what you want to hear and you don’t want to dare accept the fact that you were wrong. It’s not like I expect an apology, that’s what I’ve come to expect from left wing cowards who don’t know what the truth of what they’re saying. I’m sure if you didn’t like this post you’re a left-winger and I just hope you find your way. The same people that said war’s not the right option are saying attack N. Korea and the oil blood thirsty Cheney as you call him is the one who’s trying to get everyone to see it’s not what we should do at this particular moment in hopes of resolving peace. Go head and write this comment off like it’s made up. Fox news tells it how it is but because it’s not your opinion it must be BS. Yeah we all saw old faithful real news and the Dan Rather situation. Believe what you want but just open your eyes and see the truth for what it is. Maybe you people would be better off as citizens of Iraq cause they seem to be your buddies your always defending
June 25th, 2006 at 8:24 amSarin has a shelf life of a few weeks.
As every educated person knows.
So if they were live, the bushies put it there.
But they aren't, and haven't been.
Oh well, try again.
But wait - if you are so scared about our troops being killed by sarin
why aren't your freaking out that Rummy told the troops to
take off their bio/chem suits a few days after the invasion?
Apparently they knew something
you still refuse to ackowledge.
Rummy knew for certain there weren't any WMD's all along!
oopsie!
June 25th, 2006 at 10:08 pmSanct Orum sez: Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
What's degraded is Santorum.
He degraded himself.
June 25th, 2006 at 10:12 pmPolitics as usual. If you are bitching - right or wrong - thank a soldier. All should put the soldier's welfare (per CONGRESSIONAL approval) - who are standing in our stead - regardless of ALL the politician's grandstanding, denials, and all-inclusive stupidity about many things - all of which SOME try to do ALOT of scapegoating about. Grow up. Get over it. What I want to know is WHY it has taken SO LONG to declassify information that the American people could and should know. My nephew who returned recently from Iraq from his second tour took pictures and said that they found all kinds of WMD's - but for some strange reason NONE of these things are coming to light. That strikes me as VERY strange indeed.
June 26th, 2006 at 7:00 am221 - Why not ask why Bush has been classifying millions of documents including all those from the Clinton Administaration and from his dads?
As for the soldiers being the only people protecting American demcracy: WRONG!
It is the concerted efforts of all Americans - you and me - to defend democracy and our freedoms.
And we now see the president trying to eliminate the power of the congress and take away our rights as rightwingers applaued.
How often are we at war compared to the everyday need for Americans to make sure we remain free?
June 26th, 2006 at 11:12 amsantorum is a huge dog-and-pony show huckster. However, why he would try to pretend that bush did not lie is beyond even his usual stupidity. Even bush has said there were no WMDs. rick is a huge weenie and as a PA resident everyone I know is working hard to make sure we do not blight the nation with his neo-facist brand of conservatism for another term. If only some of our couterparts in the deep south and far west would help us rid the nation of these yahoos. The gop needs to be relegated to the political margins for another period similar to the last 3/4 of the 20th century so we can repair the damage they have done in the past few years.
June 27th, 2006 at 9:57 amPlease please please!!! You all sound like partisan idiots on both sides. Why are democrats, some actually giving this the time of day is beyond me. Why are neocons actually resorting to personal attacts on anyone who does not agree with administration policy regardless of it being good or not? You all sound like whinny spoiled kids in a playpin. The only time we all came together was 9/11! Not one comment on this post makes sense outside of the mind of the person who wrote it.
June 27th, 2006 at 4:19 pmssuede7 you seem to be the biggest insulter of democrats yet you sound like a right wing brainwashed person who majored in Republican in college. When you fill out a job app what do you put in the part for citizenship, Republican? A little objectivity will go a long way in making you seem a bit smarter and well rounded. Remember, some of the people in Iraq fighting this war you support are those same stupid democrats that you like to refer to people as. Your on this forum so before you insult the very people your freedom depends on I suggest you pick up a riffle and stand with those stupid democrats in Iraq and Afganistan. The partisan bad behavior these days in this contry can be compared to racism in its out of control severity. You have people soo committed to bush that they are blindly for him regardless of policy and people soo against him that they are willing to blame him for things obvously beyond his control. Bush has been in the WH for 6 years. Dick Chaney has been in high level government since the Nixon administration. Who do you think actually makes the decisions in this administration? When republicans stand behind bush know that your actually standing behind Chaney, Shultz, GHW Bush and other behind the seenes powerfull businessmen who actually run our country. They care about money and power, not us. Republicans get over yourselves! You run the whole damm governement, including the courts, cant get it right on almost all of your decisions regarding governing the country and what do you do? Blame democrats and the media? If this is the best you can do with full control of the country's government and resources then you should be questioning your leaders more than the democrats do. Its like having the dream team, with all the referees in your pocket and you still manage to loose the game. Republicans are allowing their leaders to waste a golden once in a century and in this case probably a civilization chance to show that you can efficiently run this country to the benefit of all of its citizens and go down in history as a great party for all people. But your blowing it big time and your legacy will be that of power hungry self serving loosers who could not pour piss out of a boot with the instructions taped to the bottom. All of you please, GET A FREAKIN LIFE!! GO HELP SOMEONE WHO NEEDS IT!! START DOING WHAT GOD WOULD WANT, NOT WHAT YOUR POLITICAL PARTY WANTS!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
Test post. Prior post did not publish.
June 28th, 2006 at 5:15 amSincere apologies to everyone if this is a double post. While it seemed to post and get a number it didnt list in RSS or when I opened this page later in another browser. I fear I may have quoted an unacceptable coloquialism and so have edited that for reposting.
Let me be clear I dont think Iran will be invaded, because it might really have WMD, is a much better defended country and it could be really dangerous. Highly asymetrical warfare as in Iraq has a much better cost/benefit ratio and risk.
However, it IS clear there will be a good 500 odd shells from the Iran Iraq war buried under sand on the IRAN side of the border AS WELL. This is just common sense given the volleys of such shells exchanged by batteries of field guns in the Iran Iraq war. Likewise there are mustard gas shells from WW1 still buried in the fields of France.
Maybe the threat of such WMDs caused the reinvasion of France in 1940, and we have misjudged the german government of the time. But watch out Iran if you loose those nukes!
By the way sheddinglight everyone should post any and all of the returned troops photos of WMDs that DoD refused to investigate and presumably Fox media liberals refused to broadcast. So many troops have them these days we should be able to make an online album.
I agree with several other posters conservatives are doing pretty well. The real swift boat scandals of this election aren’t yet in the ring. We have galvanised war politics and a productive war economy but with tax cuts - a first! Massive permanent US military bases in the heart of the Middle East, and a good old boy in the White House slashing welfare and watching Mississipi persons of color try to learn to swim every Hurricane season. Majorities in both houses. Mission accomplished on all fronts. A government of winners backing winners.
I know a lot of people were embarassed by Haditha etc, but really if 89% of Iraqi civilians as recently polled want the american army of occupation to leave, we would have to have a lot more colateral damage to get a pro-american majority. Unless they want to try voting machines I guess. Peace won't be breaking out with our troops on their soil while the Iraqis are homeless, powerless, starved or murdered, and so we will perpetually have resistance and that is our reason to stay the course indefinately. Well USA, USA I say! Or to revamp a marine saying "kill them all and let God win every election!" And just remember, Clinton had an affair, just like that awful Kennedy! Now at least we have real morality in government, morality we can proudly export. God Bless America so it can bless the rest of the world.
Comment by Thomas J — June 27, 2006 (originally) @ 1:03 am
June 28th, 2006 at 6:06 am#225 [All of you please, GET A FREAKIN LIFE!! GO HELP SOMEONE WHO NEEDS IT!! START DOING WHAT GOD WOULD WANT, NOT WHAT YOUR POLITICAL PARTY WANTS!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?] Comment by gmoney65
Wow! Get a hold of yourself there gmoney65!!! Sounds as if you have busted a nut too! Do not be too hard on those, from any perspective, who get on here to express his/her opinion. After all, cyberspace is the only REAL place where the average citizen can go to express their God given right to free expression and opinion! Otherwise, you have to be a wealthy contributer or a well financed politician to get your feelings aired! Thank God for interent that has given the average joe/mary an avenue to vent and blow chunks of frustration and anger at our broken down political system!
I still advocate people to read and study the web site called Project for a New American Century (PNAC), if you haven't already done so.
This is THE constitution of the neo-con mission! Everything you want to know about their "values" and goals are spelled out in their own words and their own documents! Check it out.
Once you read their mission staement and pick yourself off the ground, you will understand the imperial nature that is driving present day policy out of D.C. The key word here is Impire. The grand design behind PNAC is to establish American ideals and democracy (Pax- Americana) throughout the globe primarily through the unobstructed use of being the world's sole military superpower. The United Nations and diplomacy are, according to PNAC, antiquated and useless.
In short, it is a "might makes right" agenda. Their is nothing democratic or of human "value" about global plan!!! It is big wealthy and power obsessed bullies being, just that, bullies. But bullies with nukes and the most high tech equiped military in history!
When polled, Europeans understand it well. THE most dangerous country in the world is NOT North Korea, Iran or China. IT IS US, the U.S.A. led by obsessed arrogant bullies (none of which never saww one day of battle) with their well funded and politically protected corporate military complex!!!
The United States America, the same country my grandfather served in World War 1 to help Europe break free from its stalemate trench death (grandpa eventually died from the after effects of mustard gas craeted by Christian nations on both sides of the conflict). The good ol' USA that my father served in World War 2 and, again, in Korea to help other nations who had been invaded and needed protection from outside imperial forces. My, how things have changed.
Now WE are the invading imperialist!!! WE have self appointed ourselves as the world's leading people's "blessed by and ordained by God" no-less to govern the world with our so-called great moral and democratic values. The USA is history's greatest example of moral reversal ever!
Neo-cons quote The Prince of Peace (Jesus) out of context to support their "God given" agenda! Even Bush thinks God has appointed him to do his PNAC work!!! So much for humility (which I think Micah, ironically, regards as a value of "knowing The Lord")! And as far as the prophet's understanding of God's "justice," Neo-cons think the word is spelled and understood as "Just Us."
Thank God for Alternet and the many other internet places that provide a place for venting, opinionating and, at times, intelligent discussion and debate. God knows we will never, in our lifetime, have the same access to our own political cronies!
June 28th, 2006 at 11:12 amLong before Rick Santorum and Pete Hoekstra revealed that there were some 500 WMDs found, News Max via “Human Events†had already reported that there were tons of WMDs found. SEPT 2005
ï® http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1519227/posts
ï®
ï® 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium
ï® 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents
ï® Chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times more deadly than sarin gas)
ï® Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal over populated areas
“This is only a PARTIAL LIST of the horrific weapons verified to have been recovered in Iraq to date. Yet, Americans overwhelmingly believe U.S. and coalition forces found NO weapons of mass destruction.
“The question is... WHY do they believe this lie?
Tom Winter, Editor in Chief of HUMAN EVENTS: “It grieves me to admit that millions upon millions of Americans unknowingly accept blatant falsehoods as facts due to the power and prevalence of disinformation.
“’Take a look at some of the most pernicious lies that you have no doubt read or heard:
ï® "There is no connection between Iraq and al Qaeda
ï®
ï® â€œThe U.S. funded the Taliban in the 1980s
ï® "Suitcase nukes are in place across America
ï® "Osama bin Laden was trained by the CIA
ï® "Halliburton made a fortune in Iraq
ï® "There were no Jews in the Word Trade Center on 9/11
“What does each of these widely publicized, widely believed "facts" have in common? Here's what:
“They are undeniably false... as you will discover in Disinformation, the blockbuster book by veteran reporter Richard Miniter.†SEPT 2005
However, no one can expect a Democrat liberal to admit WMDs exist. You could hit a left wing liberal Democrat between the eyes with a WMD, and, if somehow he managed to survive, he would swear that it never happened, or George Bush had somehow fabricated the incident.
Leftwing liberal Democrats live in a world of illusion. Truth is relative. To a liberal Democrat, truth is a figment of a conservative’s imagination. No matter how much the left’s fictitious world, which they’ve created for themselves, crumbles around them, they seem to persist in their abnegation of reality.
Many of their post are illustrations of the enigma that the left is enthralled in. Namely, facing the truth is problematic for them.
The liberal can not admit WMDs exist because it doesn’t fit in their world of illusions. Their whole argument fails that George Bush lied about WMDs. Of course, if WMDs existed, and they do, the liberal left’s whole argument fails. Unable to face the truth, they have basically ignored it by ridicule and lambaste Santorum as a subterfuge to the fact that WMDs did exist. It’s not Santorum saying the WMDs exist, but the military. However, they prefer to malign Santorum to obsecure the fact that there was WMDs when Bush entered Iraq, and they were lethal. That Saddam couldn't deliver them is baloney. He's being tried now for using them on the Kurds.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:14 pmtest message after a new post in response to post 229 blocked by "spam filter"
June 28th, 2006 at 5:46 pmWow thanks great reading and quite relevant JMAJAMDG! For example this:
The 'stockpile' problem is another misnomer. Chemical and Bio agents are not the sorts of things that you'd ever want to have a very large amount pre-made at any one time. There are shelf-life issues, but more to the point they have some genuinely non-trivial management and logistics issues. It is most definitely not like storing ordinary high explosives.
Why not just leave them in the sand for 15 years? But anyway, incomprehensible as it is (do try the link above) the unbelievable truth!
WMD found not only by Reps H &S but ALSO by Mr Miniter over a year ago. And photographed by scores of grunts on patrol, though the photos disappear when you try to look at them.. Scary.
So all that evidence yet the administration and mainstream media that ran WMD as the causa belli now REFUSE to reveal this. So now there is a vast consproacy afoot, involving an army of body doubles and aliens of one kind or another.
I'm going to try a few words of arabic I learned in a recent marine song on my neighbour. He just looks "different" all of a sudden. And at work, I'm sure I saw a turban behind the pot plant in my bosses office, and a copy of the Koran hidden under the cover of the office manual. Man, I think they're here, they're everywhere!
I've got to make America safe from all this. Expect to hear about me in the media soon.
June 28th, 2006 at 5:48 pm[...] This is continuing Santorum’s continued spree of desperation. Just a week ago, Santorum announced “we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq” when they had actually found “a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions” and that “Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there.” That was almost definitely tip of the iceberg desperation tactics–the White House probably would have announced it if it could give more than just a rash. [...]
June 29th, 2006 at 4:05 pmIts a three right circus, congress, Administration, and WMD
June 30th, 2006 at 8:19 amIncredible! I've just finished reading many of the comments above, I wont revisit the reasoning behind the war, most admit that we were mislead by our president and his advisors. Whether it was done intentionally is almost moot. We are in Iraq now, and thats the priority now. I would argue for a withdrawal, to start immediately, as most historians that have studied the middle east and its gov't will tell you, there have been many attempts to "westernize" or "democratize" different countries in the middle east. All attempts have failed, and failed big. Britian had no success, and pulled out in the late 40's. The middle east will always be a hot bed for terrorism, and strife. Why? good question, and if we could figure that out, maybe we could make a difference there.
Couple of facts that seem to be doctored by some of the previous posters, one said that electricity and other infrastructure issues were now above pre-war levels, this in fact is not true, before the war, Bagdad residents were getting roughly on average 12 hours of electrical service per day, at the moment, its under 4 hours a day, this is not above prewar levels, the same goes for sewage treatment. Much of the money earmarked for rebuilding has been spent on security, very little has been used for actual reconstruction. I'm not saying that we should ignore security, the issue I have is that we were told that it wouldn't be an issue, that Iraqi's would welcome us with open arms, obviously this is not the case. during the first few months of the war, and the ensuing occupation (there is no other word here that fits, if you find one, let me know) The Iraqi's were happy enough, thanking us and I would assume, expecting us to leave. We did not leave, we stayed, and each day we stay longer engenders more acrimony toward us.
Recent polls suggest that most Iraqis (in the neighborhood of 75% of those polled) think its okay to shoot americans, and that they view us as occupiers. Whether or not we think we are NOT occupiers is irrelevant. The Iraqis think we are..and as long as they think that, we are trying to run up a slippery slope. Without the Iraqi populations help, there is virtually no way we can "win" this war. Speaking of war, we should classify this action our gov't has taken in our name properly. It is Nation building, something that Bush claimed in his first campaign for president to be a non-starter for him. He said, " I don't think we should nation build, it would create hate for us, and is not the natural way of things".
Now that we are in fact nation building, what will be his next faux pas.
For the neocons that don't see how the republicans are using scare tactics to win elections, you should really get more informed, and you really should get your priorities in order. The republican spin machine right now is using things like Gay marriage, flag burning and immigration to create more scare tactics, instead of tryin to run on their abysmal record. One can hardly blame them, as their record is pretty bad. I'm not saying that dems are much better, but, it sure seems obvious to me, as I would imagine it does to a majority of our country, that we are headed in the wrong direction. Its time to bring civility back to the debate. But reading the comments of self described conservatives, both on here, and in congress, I doubt that is something that most neo-cons would welcome. It forces them to be reasonable, and that doesn't seem to be a strong suit for them.
Look, the fact of the matter of Iraq is that the administration was wrong, whether they knew it from the start or not is totally moot at this point. Its time to figure out how to correct this mistake, that has led to a definate credibility problem for our country. (This is not a treasonous statement, its a statement of fact, when nearly all polls taken in the lst couple of years in other countries say that America is the greatest threat to world peace, and that most countries around the globe do not trust us anymore.)
For those of you who continue to think that the Iraq war was the right thing to do, it may be time to stop drinking the kool-aid. Use your own dubious powers of intellect to sort out the situation, and then offer us a way to come out of this successfully.
I have some serious questions for those of you that support this illegal and immoral action,
1. Now that we are there, when will the situation there be good enough for us to leave?
2. What do you consider to be the signals of success in Iraq? Will it be when Iraqis, both sunni, shiite and kurds all agree? Or when they can govern themselves honestly?
3. Do you see the invasion of Iraq as a necessary thing, even after no true, usable wmd's have been found? If so, Why?
4. Have you read the congressional reports on Iraq's wmd capability prior to current "war" in comparison to those before the 91' war? If so, what is your take on the accuracy of numbers of wmd's gathered by the UN, and by our own inspection and search teams? (they are very nearly the same..within 1%)
5. What do you think about President Bush's knowingly false statements of mobile chemical plants, the yellowcake uranium fiasco, and the aluminum tube lies?
In my estimation, President Bush has definately cherry picked intelligence to support his case for war. Most of the above information was common knowledge before our ill-fated invasion, yet the invasion took place anyway.
Many neo-cons claim that Bush is brilliant, if that was so, why in God's name (literally) did he decide that Iraq, which has no terror training camps prior to our invasion, was linked to Al Qaida, when they are at both religious, and political odds with one another?
Many of you neo-cons would also argue that terrorism has gone down since our invasion, pointing to that as proof that our invasion was warranted, the facts are, that terrorism has increased, and in my humble opinion will continue to increase, whether or not we invaded Iraq. The fact of the matter is, that we are at this moment ignoring true terrorism, OSL is still alive and kicking, not to say that if he were killed or captured that it would make a difference in terrorism. It won't. Even in Afghanistan, where the neo-cons like to point, and say we were succesful is now starting to unravel. Why? because money that could have wisely been spent to solidify our postion in Afghanistan has been redirected to a non-productive war in Iraq.
Its common knowledge that Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran were more involved with terrorism than Iraq was. With sanctions and so forth on Iraq, it was more than contained. Whether or not you liked Hussein and his policies, he did in fact have control of his country (yes, I think Hussein should be put to death for the crimes he commited against humanity, but also, at the moment, with all the stuff our president has done, he could, on a world stage, be compared ill-favorably with Hussien)
I favor our immediate withdrawals to the outer borders of Iraq, at the moment, our presence in Iraq is not a boon to peace, but a percursor to more violence. The sunni's and shiites have been at each others throats for a millenia, without massive amounts of troops, and I mean massive..like a million plus, we will not be able to stop them from trying to destroy each other. Others have tried, with absolutely no success. What makes us think we can succeed here? What things that have happened in Iraq make our expenditure in money and soldiers lives justified? these are serious questions, and I really do want answers. It seems to me right now, that a few schools and some medical facilities back up and running is not really enough success to justify 300 billion spent, and 2500 american soldiers lives lost. Not to mention the literally hundreds of thousand Iraqi deaths due to our own bombing campaigns, as well as the secular and religious violence that has grown out of our invasion. Time to wise up folks...we need to admit to ourselves, that no matter how much money we spend, no matter how many lives we sacrifice, that the Iraqis themselves are the ones that have to want democracy, and it has to be a plurality, that is not going to happen as long as we are there. We are a distraction now, not saviors. WE've done what we set out originally to do, as misguided as it was, we toppled saddam, unfortunately, that one move created more death and destruction than saddam did during his entire tenure. Good trade off? hmmm...I think not.
June 30th, 2006 at 8:25 amNo, the priority of this country is:
1. for liberals to pooh pooh anything that happens good in Iraq (from Zarqawi's death to finding 500 munitions of wmd, from states of unueasable to useable).
2. for conservatives to pump up anti-patriotism if you question anything they do
3. for everyone else to be misguided, uniformed and apathetic until the next big explosion happens in our country
However, as an independent, I'm siding with the cons on this one ... if what they found was so inconsequential, would you really want a terrorist setting it off five miles away for you, or even worse, pouring the degraded compound into the water supply (as they tried in London).
The search for WMD was not just abuot a big nuclear explosion, it was chemical weapons ... they were there, we found them, I'm not surprised they were there (although it amazes me some people act as if Saddam actually didn't violate the cease fire agreement, like he's a boyscout or something).
On the flip side, even with that, these weapons did not constitute IMMINENT THREAT as was sold to us. This did not require an invasion, it required air strikes.
July 3rd, 2006 at 1:06 pmFor everyone who's tooting the horn that the alleged WMDs in Iraq have been found... for everyone who's shouting from the rooftops that this find substantiates and justifies our invasion of Iraq... for everyone who criticizes we who claim that this alleged find was a bogus political ploy on the part of Santorum and Hoekstra...
Just stop the blatantly deceitful rationalizations... please! You're not fooling those of us who see clearly through the charade; you're only fooling yourselves.
Bush and Cheney both alleged something far more specific, and certain (in their own minds), than a stockpile of warheads leftover from the previous Iraq-Iran war...
Bush and Cheney alleged not only chemical, but biological and nuclear weapons...
Bush and Cheney alleged not only that Hussein had them, but that he was actively manufacturing them...
Bush and Cheney lied... repeatedly... to the people and citizens of America and to the whole world... lied to justify and invasion that was executed for reasons other than those publicly given... reasons that furthered their own agenda, at the expense of several thousand American lives, and tens of thousands of non-American lives.
Shame on you for your ignorant posturing. The facts are in, and are in context, and the truth is as plain as the nose on your face; why won't you simply look in the mirror and acknowledge what you see?
October 8, 2004 - The San Diego Union-Tribune:
Submit your biases, prejudices and agendas to the facts and stop the lies now... please!
July 3rd, 2006 at 2:02 pmOh boy. These arguements are so sound that Bush should admit that all the liberals are right and give Iraq back to Saddam. He's still alive and well and we should let him out, give him back the presidency that he so richly deserves, and le him go on his merry way. We won't need a vote, or go through all that messy democracy stuff. He can just pick his relatives for his cabinet and execute the rest in an open forum (like before). We should make him promise that he won't use nerve gas against us (capable of killing hundreds of thousands) or any other pseudo-WMDs, in the way that he killed his own people before. He must allow American movies and news only from CNN and Al Qazera (NO FOX) to ensure that his image is not tarnished. We should pay him reparations and rebuild his statue. Hillary should present him with the keys to the White House and an open invitation to the Lincoln bedroom (when she is elected). Long live Saddam--he had no WMDs and loved America!! We've been lied to by the Republicans!
July 4th, 2006 at 11:57 amWell now guys theres no need to be such cry babies. Im soo sorry that you can never say "there were NO wmds found in Iraq again!!! " accompanied with usually "bush lied to get the oil!!!" All of the democrat talking points have been discounted now. Next we will catch osama binladen and find a collection of wmds that were shipped out of the country pre iraq invation. Somewhere along the way republicans will win the presidency again despite every effort by the liberal media (abc, cbs, msnbc, communist news network etc.) This will be fallowed by you all sceaming like the psychotic loosers you are "THEY CHEATED!" A little ironic i think, coming from the party with thousands of fraudulent voter aplications found in ohio last election. Its so sadly perdictable. Look, dont feel bad that you are the party of the loosers, downtrodden, no ideas and mentaly ill. Look at the bright side there is at least a chance that you could win another election. Take the senerio of bill clinton. Two conservatives could run and split the vote and you could be given the presidency by default! Good luck next election loosers... you gonna need it. :]
July 5th, 2006 at 3:15 amin response to Richard Harlos ---
I agree with everything you said except i would add one thing... I think we should stop the entire war on terror and change our C.I.A. in to the S.G.T.A. (SUPPORT GLOBAL TERROR AGENCY). This way we can legally wage war on ourselves , (with the support of congress and the supreme court of course because we need all the branches of government to be equal in power when the republicans are in. And also with this new great program we can stop worrying about what the terrorists wmd capability is because we will already know. Also it will be easy to figure out what the enemy is doing.
I cant imagine how republicans can get up every day and look at themselves in the mirror! I mean comming from a democrat like me, i just dont think the republicans are christian at all! I mean us democrats dont believe that christ was the son of god or anyhting but...
BUSH is just for war and money! Lets face it. Us democrats never believe in war! EVER! Except when it is in Cosavo and bill clinton is president. And we always are for higher taxes to help the poor! Except when the republicans cut the taxes... then we just keep our money and by valvos.
July 5th, 2006 at 3:33 amVolvos*
July 5th, 2006 at 3:37 amOh yea and to the only point being constantly reiterated by you libs ' bush alleged more specific things than wmds!" YEA I AGREE I HEARD HIM SAY on cnn "I WAS IN IRAQ THE OTHER WEEK AND SAW NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON SADDAMS FRONT LAWN!" the only question remaining is "how were the democrats in the senate dumb enough to believe him?
July 5th, 2006 at 3:44 amRegarding Jim's comments on #233:
Jim, you get it dude! Good job in thinking through the facts! I would just disagree on one important fact. You say it is moot about "how" we got into this war to begin with. I would say ACCOUNTABILITY is very important! If, as most would agree, Bush lied and/or fabricated a "case" for war, then he and his cronies need to be ACCOUNTABLE and RESPONSIBLE for their actions.
Why is it there seems to be no focus on the issues of accountability and responsibility??? These are values that all of them/us should have learned by the 3rd grade! After all, it was, in fact, their actions that led us into a war that has destroyed thousands of lives and families, wasted billions of dollars and will have untold social/political/cultural blowback that will effect the world for years to come!!! Are you suggesting that our leaders go on "business as usual" without any responsibility or accountablility for their misguided decisions and deceptions???
Nixon resigned having done far less (yet no less important) destruction to our country! Clinton, for God's sake, was nearly impeached for what amounts to a blow job in the White House! Surely the actions of our present leadership that has led to so much destruction has to count for something in terms of a reprimand???
Bush is a moron. It's that simple. Rumsfield is the moron's scowling henchman! Cheney...well, he's just sad. Coni is a puppet.
Bottom line. We, The People, need to start over with our government by, to begin with, demanding campaign finance reform so we can separate the corporate and private money from the politicians! We have the "best government money can buy." As long as corporate money keeps our government in their pocketbooks, we will never have a government "for the people and by the people." Dems and Repugs are all in the money dole together! It's time for a REAL change. Time to get rid of these "career" politicians, both libs and neocons! They all smell of selfishness and arrogance!
July 5th, 2006 at 11:38 am[...] Rick held a press conference carried by FOX during John Gibson’s show today to say they found WMD’s in Iraq. Sources in Washington are saying that these are artillery shells that predate the gulf war…as TP notes: [...]
July 12th, 2006 at 5:10 pmwow my comment (showing a bunch of quotes of high ranking democrat officials making statements about iraq pre war from 99-02) Was smacked by the so called "spam filter" just to let you guys know..maybe this site is...ehem OMITTING information that you need to know. neway I'm too tired to start over..PeacE pubs.
August 1st, 2006 at 6:06 amTheir ain't no one in the world worth his urination that hasn't got an awesome digital camera. Thus, ... "SHOW ME THE WMD!" I'm not asking for buffalo chips, here bimbos. And I'm not saying "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" because tons have been spent looking for that hairy WMD. I am saying, "SHOW ME THE WMD!" And all of us are smart enough to tell when something has been Photoshopped. "SHOW ME THE WMD!"
August 5th, 2006 at 1:28 pmIt's time for all you weak, pansy ass Americans to sit back and let Good Ol Phasion American leadership take charge of things. You all have been living it up blindly long enough on the blood sweat and tears of your forefathers sacrifices. If they could see what you've become they'd roll over with their back towards you. We have long done what needed to be done so that you whiners could have the right to...well, whine. This is a freakin' ugly world we live in. Always has been. The weak have always lost. So before you go casting stones at our "cowboy" president stop and think of where we'd be without our past "cowboy" president's who had the guts act when the bull#$@5 talkin' was done. Go ahead - rebut this, you weak pansies.
August 10th, 2006 at 8:10 pmtest
October 21st, 2006 at 11:28 pmAdd Cheney and that makes three -- a crowd of experts!
Right or wrong, if you are against them, you are a traitor to our country!
And if you think otherwise, you should sign my petition:
"MR. CHENEY, We need to hear from you!"
October 25th, 2006 at 11:42 amSantorum, Limbaugh, and Cheney makes three,
And everybody knows that three’s a crowd,
And if you disagree, you’re a traitor to our country
And you’d better sign my petition (Anonymously,
if you fear and tremble as those undespotism):
"MR. CHENEY, We need to hear from you!"
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/263308738
Peace, etc., Bruce Combs
October 25th, 2006 at 12:00 pmWow!
What a bunch of freaking idiots. If you honestly believe this country will be safer with morons like Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy, and company...go right on ahead a vote the dems in. I'll just avoid DC, NYC, and LA until we have real leadership back. God help us all if Congress and the Presidency go Dem in 06/08. I think that will be the end of our nation. Just look at how 8 years of Clinton destroyed our Intelligence services...
Wow!
October 26th, 2006 at 5:51 amDear pissed veteran,
What exactly made you pissed other than the uninformed rhetoric you repeat over and over? By your own admission you don't seem to know much about what is going on in the war itself, although you are a veteran of the war (and I thank you for your service). It seems you became disgruntled simply by seeing the wounded and casualties without a full understanding of the war itself. That's understandable. Honestly, I don't think I could stomach seeing what you have seen and remain objective. I suspect you can't either.
My brother-in-law, who despises politics, is a veteran of the Gulf war and was a first sargent, infantry in this one. He is no fan of Bush (or any other politician) to be sure, but he is convinced this war was a GREAT thing for IRAQIs. Why? In his words "they lived like animals and didn't even realize it".
He tells stories we NEVER hear on television. Stories of bring running water to areas that NEVER had it before. Stories of building Hospitals and schools in areas that didn't have any. Stories of girls who were previously deemed "unfit" allowed to go to school for the first time (not all girls, mind you, were deprived of education previously)
My point is, the whole "Bush lied, People died" rhetoric is not only untrue, it's quite hurtful to the servicemen who are accomplishing great things in that country. You won't hear those stories on any network news station, tho. Feel good stories don't sell.
Our servicemen are not bitter and moral is high despite what you might see on your television.
Additionally I keep seeing the "death toll". Sure, it's impressive to spout that 2500 American soldiers have died in 3+years. It's also virtually nothing when compared to other wars. There were BATTLES in WWII that produced 10 times that many dead. And PLEASE let's give up the money issue. This country is in it's best financial shape in 2 decades, at least. (Expecting the required "Clinton balanced the budget" claim now. Don't even try it. I'll easily shoot it down and you probably won't understand it anyhow.) People who aren't qualified should not spout off about deficits. All the amateur needs to know is wall street doesn't see it as a problem so they shouldn't either. Anything else is partisan rhetoric.
October 27th, 2006 at 10:44 pm[...] In June, Hoekstra unequivocally claimed that WMD had been found in Iraq. From a press conference with Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA), 6/21/06: Congressman Hoekstra and I are here today to say that we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons. [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 9:56 am[...] 16. The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced that “we have found the WMD in Iraq.” [Link] [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 6:17 pm[...] 16. The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced that “we have found the WMD in Iraq.” [Link] [...]
November 6th, 2006 at 6:23 pm[...] In June, Hoekstra unequivocally claimed that WMD had been found in Iraq. From a press conference with Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA), 6/21/06: Congressman Hoekstra and I are here today to say that we have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons. [...]
November 7th, 2006 at 12:06 pmJust so you guys know, I was deployed to iraq and have found 4 WMDs. Iraq doesn't have STOCKPILES of WMDs.. but they had WMDs. turn off CNN, BBC, and all the other BS liberal media and learn to think for yourself and get your facts straight -- because everytime there is a FACT posted -- you have to gripe and find 100 things wrong with it just because it goes against what John Kerry said.
November 7th, 2006 at 10:42 pmWars are fought not for freedoms but for the wealth of a few. People should be pissed, liberal, conservative, black or white... its of no consequence. These governements do not fight for you or anyone else but themselves. Wake up from the beauty sleep of your "reality", none of this political posturing has anything to do with the tru reality it hides.
Powerful, greedy and inconsiderate assholes have taken control of our futures and are destroying out planet and killing people without blinking an eye.
The entire structure needs to be recycled.
-=P=-.v001
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:53 pm[...] We’re thankful Rick Santorum will have more free time to find the WMD. [...]
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:51 am[...] Depressing, since this is the same cache of weapons that Santorum was raving about a while back. The statement that they “do constitute weapons of mass destruction” is very much like saying that a race car that’s been up on blocks exposed to the weather for twenty years is still a race car. Yes, it has four wheels and a big engine. Yes, it has a specially engineered body made for stiffness and light weight. Yes, it was designed to go very, very fast. Yes, it may even have useable parts. Forget the fact that the tires and hoses are rotted, the body is rusted, the interior is sun-baked, the volatiles in the grease have evaporated, and there’s a hornet’s nest sitting on top of the engine block; yes, it’s a race car. [...]
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February 24th, 2007 at 4:45 pm[...] http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/28/the-minnesota-gops-stealth-attack-on-privacy/ http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/21/santorum-wmd/ http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/05/warming-13-percent/ [...]
March 16th, 2008 at 9:38 pm[...] of Information Act) data that showed we had found and destroyed about 500 other DMVs in Iraq (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/21/santorum-wmd/). This info had to be pried loose by a legislator (as opposed to revealed - triumphantly - when it [...]
March 30th, 2008 at 6:52 pm