Rep. King: NYT Reporters Should Be Charged Under Espionage Act
Rep. King: NYT Reporters Should Be Charged Under Espionage Act
The New York Times reported on Friday that the Bush administration has “examined banking transactions involving thousands of Americans and others in the United States” allegedly linked to terrorist networks.
This morning, Rep. Peter King (R-NY) argued that the NYT reporters, editors, and publishers responsible for that story should be charged under the Espionage Act, which is punishable by up to 20 years in prison.
[N]o one elected the New York Times to do anything. And the New York Times is putting its own arrogant elitest left wing agenda before the interests of the American people, and I’m calling on the Attorney General to begin a criminal investigation and prosecution of the New York Times — its reporters, the editors who worked on this, and the publisher. We’re in a time of war, Chris, and what they’ve done has violated the Espionage Act, the COMINT act.
Moments later, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) called King’s proposal “premature” and paraphrased Thomas Jefferson: “Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”
Full transcript below:
WALLACE: Congressman King, let me bring you in on this as well. From what you know, do you have any problems with the Swift program, this tracking of financial records, and what about the argument that if it — even if it was an emergency after 9/11, that five years after the fact, this has become a permanent program and that you should get approval from the courts and Congress?
KING: Chris, I think the administration acted entirely appropriately. The 1976 U.S. Supreme Court case gives them, to me, the absolute right to do this. They’re in full compliance with all statutes. To me, the real question here is the conduct of the New York Times by disclosing this in time of war, they have compromised America’s anti-terrorist policies. This is a very effective policy. They have compromised it. This is the second time the New York Times has done this. And to me, no one elected the New York Times to do anything. And the New York Times is putting its own arrogant elitest left wing agenda before the interests of the American people, and I’m calling on the Attorney General to begin a criminal investigation and prosecution of the New York Times — its reporters, the editors who worked on this, and the publisher. We’re in a time of war, Chris, and what they’ve done has violated the Espionage Act, the COMINT act. The time has come for the American people to realize, and the New York Times to realize, we’re at war and they can’t be on their own deciding what to declassify, what to release. If Congress wants to work on this privately, that’s one thing. But for them to, on their own, for the editor of the New York Times to say that he decides it’s in the national interest — no one elected them to anything. Remember, this is the newspaper that brought us Jason Blair. Going back a few years ago, they’re the ones who gave Fidel Castro his job in Cuba. They have no right to do this at all. The First Amendment is not absolute, especially when it comes to something like this, which is a clear violation of statutory law.
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I guess the republicans are going all out to stop freedom of the press. I wonder when Robert Novak will get arrested for revealing Valerie Plames name?
June 25th, 2006 at 11:27 amEvery day this administration is in office, we slip just a little bit closer to a dictatorship.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:30 amKing should have someone in his staff read the U.S. Constitution. Since he swore to uphold it, he should rethink his position.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:34 amI do believe that an investigation from the Justice Department should be initiated to determine if a crime has been committed. It is obvious that if you reveal the methods used to identify and track enemy activities (and hence their plans and general strategies), then enemies will change their methods. This blatant undermining of US efforts to protect Americans raises the question as to whether or not these types of revelations by the press during a time of war are treasonous, prosecutable and punishable.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:38 amCould some one please show me the spot in DC where the NY Times found the information for their story. Did it fall out of several intel employee’s briefcases? Can you say Caine Munity? Has any one thought about accusing the people who gave the Times the info. That probably would not be too pretty.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:40 amLet’s see, silence free speech, eliminate the constitution, kill the messengers, pollute the air, soil, water and minds of the public with filth and lies, sell off the country while creating daily little and big problems, constantly create more wars on and on. Yep! look’s like the bush dictatorship is just about complete. Get on your lock step boots america, drink the kool aid or be silenced……Well not me and sitting in front of this screen isn’t getting it either…For your health and future of our country get out there and protest…….Blessings, we need them
June 25th, 2006 at 11:48 amThe deeper the secrecy, the greater the crime being covered up…
It is the duty of the press to shine a light upon the darkness of govenment…how els can the citizens make objective decisions at the ballot box…without a free press shining that light on the darkness, there will be no democracy and the republic will surely fail.
Some people should be required to learn in school.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:51 amWhy do Republicans hate the Constitution? Oh yeah, because they will all be held accountable once they lose control of Congress. We know why they are reading our e-mails, looking at our banking records, and listening to our phones….their enemy are people who do not agree with their politics or agenda. These criminals are desperate to find anything they can use to co-opt, blackmail, or leverage Democrats in the November mid-terms. I know who Al-Qaeda is…it’s the Republican Syndicate. The leadership is easy to spot, they all wear flag pins in their suitcoat lapels.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:52 amI suppose we could get rid of that pesky first amendment Jason. After were fighting terror.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:52 amPeter king is losing his mind. He has lost focus on the purpose of being a congrssman. Apparently, as BushCo continues to abuse its power, to destroy the constitution, and to remake the republic, King is on board, discarding his own oath to uphold the consitution. King should take a chill pill and think of how he will feel if this much power is given to the Democrats when they take over the government. Frankly, Specter has it right this time, when he quotes Jefferson. Whether Specter remains in that camp is another story, but today his words are right on.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:53 amMoments later, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) called King’s proposal “premature†and paraphrased Thomas Jefferson: “Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.â€
Considering Jefferson hated newspapers, and generally did not read them, putting them over government makes it clear how little he valued or trusted government…. Now we know why.
Sounds like Specter really want sto stand up to the corruption in his party, but he can never seem to muster enough strength.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:53 amWe are already in a freefall from lack of truthfull info . What does KIng want the puppy press to report on? How fabiously well things are going in Iraq or how about Afghanistan .You have to be braindead or brainwashed not to have heard all the good news, just pouring daily or maybe you read the latest and greatest of the all American
June 25th, 2006 at 11:54 amPress.
#6 sharon cox
June 25th, 2006 at 11:55 amYou’re absolutely right.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.â€
June 25th, 2006 at 11:56 amthat’s rich … some people really think that the “terrists” didn’t already know that their financial activities, just like their communications, are being tracked and scrutinized…
June 25th, 2006 at 11:56 amheh…
I’m all for Robert Novak getting busted for outing a CIA operative.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:56 amI do believe that an investigation from the Justice Department should be initiated to determine if a crime has been committed.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 25, 2006 @ 11:38 am
Go read the Consitution Jason. It clearly establishes Freedom of the press.
Then, go read Thomas Jefferson’s philosophy on vigilance over government. Here’s a hint, there’s a reason people quote him when they think the government is suppressing our rights, especially Freedom of Speech…
June 25th, 2006 at 11:56 amdamn that quote works anywhere
June 25th, 2006 at 11:58 amThis blatant undermining of US efforts to protect Americans raises the question as to whether or not these types of revelations by the press during a time of war are treasonous, prosecutable and punishable.
Jason, the only genuine danger you personally are in, is from your own government. The odds of you being stabbed by a poison pen wielding islamic militant, is slightly less than being struck on the head by a frozen humming bird.
June 25th, 2006 at 11:58 amThe odds of you being spirited away by your own government and held incommunicado, indefinetly, are significantly higher.
This situation, is like the a man cheating on his wife, and when his wife finds out by say going through his pockets and finding a hotel receipt. She is in trouble for going through his pockets.
Nevermind what he did.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:00 pmMoments later, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) called King’s proposal “premature†and paraphrased Thomas Jefferson: “Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.â€
Sen Specter,
This is your moment, commit to it.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:00 pmThese animals are war criminals and this is so blatant that repression of the press is only a sloppy attempt at damage control.The bush administration has no use for the US constitution at all and if you need the press to inform you at this late date youve been asleep for years .Jason wheres your chain saw
June 25th, 2006 at 12:03 pmheidi - that reminds me of a caller to randi rhodes saying that
June 25th, 2006 at 12:03 pmthis country is suffering from BATTERED CITIZENS SYNDROME…
The odds of you being stabbed by a poison pen wielding islamic militant, is slightly less than being struck on the head by a frozen humming bird.
Comment by Brian Coughlan — June 25, 2006 @ 11:58 am
Brian - thanks for that! I’ve tried putting this absurd fear of unknown strangers with bombs in perspective for the knuckleheads on the right for sometime now, but that was, by far, the most hilarious context I’ve seen it in… thanks.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:05 pmWhat are we going todoabout this .Discus the finer points of facsism with jason?Vote in november on electronic voting machines for the democrats in the hope that a different set of corporations will be more ammenable to democracy ?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:06 pm#9, Krazny,
A legislative body wrote that article of the constitution and the voters ratified it; however, the Supreme Court has reviewed that article in the context of the executive brach’s ability to wage war, and have repeated upheld the executive branch’s need / right to prosecute a war without the press telling the enemy our plans. You seen to have no problem understanding the sanctity of the constitution, but are stumped by the Supreme Court’s function of ruling on the application of the constitution in various circumstances.
There should and will be an investigation into the leak of the information to the press, and the results may spur an investigation and prosecution of the NYT.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:07 pmmaybe I should cancel my subscription to time magazine or write my congrssman
June 25th, 2006 at 12:08 pm#25, freeman,
The last time the peaceniks got their way, the country elected Jimmy Carter, who couldn’t even deal with a hostage situation, so by all means - VOTE! You can either learn through discussion, or negative Pavlovian reinforcement - art thee man or art thee animal?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:11 pmJason, are you equally as concerned about the investigation and prosecution of the Bush administration?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:13 pmIt’s amazing how much these guys want to censor the press. If the press is ever censored from revealing the illegal activities of a corrupt government, I’ll start making my plans to move because this will no longer be a country that has a government ran by it’s elected officials for the people. I guess you can argue that is no longer happening, but for 50% of the sheep out there, this type of behavior seems to be perfectly ok because it’s keeping them safe.
My question is, who will keep them safe from a dictatorship and fascism. This is NOT America, dear lord it’s a scary time to be an American. The terrorists are winning because we are giving up our freedoms. :(
June 25th, 2006 at 12:15 pmhey jason are you paid for this garbage ?We are all afraid of facsism here and it seems to make you feel safe !Are you sure your in the right country ?Your patriotism is terrifying .You condone war torture the presidents power toTOTALLY ignore every right in the constitution .What is it youi like about the flag Its coloror the way it looks when you pledge allegience to it .Youdon’t seem tocherish anything about this country but it’s shopping malls !
June 25th, 2006 at 12:16 pmWouldn’t it have to be proven, that by releasing this information, it really does somehow compromise US security?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:18 pm#24 - I WHOLEHEARTEDLY second unbelievable’s thought Brian. That is the most succinct and humorous explanation of the rough odds of being attacked by a terrorist I have yet seen. GOOD ON YA!
June 25th, 2006 at 12:20 pmDan - we’re already there.
Hendler - That’s why we need the press to be totally run by the Government. And just to be sure we are getting accurate information, we’ll call it the Ministry of Truth.
Open questions: 1) what if there was a secret executive order requiring all televisions/cell phones/electronic communications devices manufactured or sold in the U.S. to include a hidden camera and microphone which would provide a continuous feed to the NSA?
Revealing such a program would definitely hinder the Government’s intelligence gathering efforts. Should a newspaper be prosecuted for publishing information about this program?
2) What if there was a secret executive order requiring middle-of-the-night abductions of anyone of Middle Eastern descent. Each man, woman and child so rounded up would be tortured until they revealed their connections to terrorist cells and named their co-conspirators, then gassed and buried in unmarked mass graves?
Revealing the existence of such a program would hinder the Government’s intelligence gathering efforts in the War on Terror. Should a newspaper be prosecuted for publishing information about this program?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:21 pmThe last time the peaceniks got their way, the country elected Jimmy Carter, who couldn’t even deal with a hostage situation
How many americans died on his watch at the hands of terrorists? How many in war?
Peace is a rational choice, most especially, when your side has the overwhelming fire power to counter a genuine threat. As opposed to this trumped up nonsense.
The vast majority of the world do consider Bush a war criminal, and they are absolutely right. For the moment, the global political will does not exist to deal with him. As it didn’t exist for Pinochet in his day, or Milosevic in his. Bringing Bush to justice may take decades, but it will happen.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:21 pmYour patriotism is terrifying
Comment by freeman — June 25, 2006 @ 12:16 pm
that’s NOT patriotism…
June 25th, 2006 at 12:22 pmnot for the USA at least…
Odd, when revealing classified information, could say put Karl Rove in prison, the republicans are all about witholding judgemnt, and wait for the facts. But when it applies, or maybe applies to a supposed “liberal” then he lets round ‘em up and send them to Guantanamo.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:22 pm3000 killed on bushes watch 100 000 iraqis dead and the rest grieving and Jason holds up the carter years as defense thats weak
June 25th, 2006 at 12:22 pmJason,
We are NOT at War. Congress must declare it for it to be so, therefore, in a court, the Executive Branch cannot invoke any form of wartime secrecy.
And, at no time, can the government violate the privacy of U.S. citizens without the proper warrants (they got one, not one per case as they are required to do). You really should read the Constitution - it’s in there also.
Also, Jimmy Carter DID win the Nobel Peace Prize. Winning one is a great and well, noble, honor. Slamming the man for his peaceful tactics makes you look ignorant.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:24 pmDeutchland uber alles …….Listen jason I think I hear Yankee dooddle dandy Are you saluting?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:24 pmThe broad mass of the nation … will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one.â€
June 25th, 2006 at 12:28 pmAdolf Hitler Mein kampf Jason you were born alittle late and in the wrong country
He is the reincarnation of a member of the Nationalist Socialist Party in Deutschland in the 1930s.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:30 pmfreeman
Particularly after what his hero Reagan did with Iran shortly after the hostage crisis. Anybody else remember the Iran-Contra affair?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:30 pmJimmy Carter was out building houses for the poor when W was a drunk and using noriega’s finest
June 25th, 2006 at 12:32 pmSaddam was our guy then.We armed him when we couldnt topple the govt of iran fast enuf so we armed him and he killed how many ?Millions ? 100’s of thousands? I wonder why Iran wants nuclear weapons DON’T THEY TRUST US? another example of the flawed foreign policies we are paying for in blood now.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:37 pm#39, unbelievable,
Congress repeatedly funding the WAR ON TERROR is tacit approval of this WAR, which I am sure will be upheld by the Supreme Court, if/when the question comes before them.
Again, the Supreme Court has upheld the Executive branch’s restrictions of constitutional rights during a TIME OF WAR - repreatedly - which is the purpose of the Supreme Court, as defined by the constitution.
I’ll give Carter whatever credit is due to him in establishing peace between Egypt and Israel, for which he received a Nobel Prize, but his handling of the Iranian hostage situation was abissmal, and was only resolved when he left office and the Iranians cowered before almighty Reagan.
#35, Brian,
The reason I reach back to Carter, is that Chris Matthews brought up the excellent parallel of the ‘68 Democratic convention to understand the influence of the peacenik’s on today’s politics in the Democratic party, which culminated 8 years later in electing Jimmy Carter. Does this mean Feingold in 2012 or 2016?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:39 pmGet your gun Jason The nat’n guard is running behind in recruiting the poor who want a college education.I’msure they’llmake a place for you in our struggle for world domination!
June 25th, 2006 at 12:40 pmIf liberals oppose the military fighting terrorism AND they oppose the use of standard law enforcement techniques to oppose terrorism, then what should we conclude?
There is no question that anyone who divulged the existence of a Grand Jury investigation into organized crime should and would be prosecuted.
How is this different?
The NYT is in the hands of imbeciles and/or enemies of the people.
You guys just don’t get it. We are at war and have a legal right to conduct these legal operations to protect the country. Just because you are unaware of the facts of the legality of these operations is no excuse.
Nail the NYT and everyone involved in this treasonous act.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:41 pmAfter all your defacto role model was a foot soldier in the first world war
June 25th, 2006 at 12:42 pmwhere is the enemy we are at war with exactly .Planning in a cave or shooting from the doors of their houses? “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.â€
June 25th, 2006 at 12:47 pmGoebels
The reason I reach back to Carter …
That is not particularly relevant to the matter being discussed, and I notice you didn’t address those questions I posed. Tell me please, what is your limit, when is enough, enough?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:49 pmAbe Dean
Getting ahold of every single American citizens banking details, is not
It is a complete negation of the law. Specifically the fourth amendment.
Further, your statement (as follows)
Is complete and total bullshit. Nobody would get prosecuted for revealing such a investigation. Frankly your whole post reads like you don’t the first thing about freedom of the press or media law.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:49 pmthis is going to be a long war when we can’t find the enemy.Better give the presz dictatorial powers .Those who would trade liberty for safety deserve neither
June 25th, 2006 at 12:49 pmCongress repeatedly funding the WAR ON TERROR is tacit approval of this WAR, which I am sure will be upheld by the Supreme Court, if/when the question comes before them.
Nope - it has to be an official declaration of war - in writing - to count. Did you sleep through all of high school history?
There won’t be a law suit. It violates the Freedom of Speech the press has in the First Amendment.
Again, the Supreme Court has upheld the Executive branch’s restrictions of constitutional rights during a TIME OF WAR - repreatedly - which is the purpose of the Supreme Court, as defined by the constitution.
And again, we are not at war.
I’ll give Carter whatever credit is due to him in establishing peace between Egypt and Israel, for which he received a Nobel Prize, but his handling of the Iranian hostage situation was abissmal, and was only resolved when he left office and the Iranians cowered before almighty Reagan.
Abysmal? You won’t even give the guy credit for keeping our citizens alive from people your side routinely calls headchoppers? You know, the same people you’re so afraid of you want to give away our freedoms and waste billions in dollars and thousands of lives fighting?
You’re so blind you can’t even see your own irrational hypocrisy…
Does this mean Feingold in 2012 or 2016?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 25, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
Well, you seem to be a know-it-all… Don’t you know?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:51 pm#46 - Jason, google the words “default powers,” and you’ll find an exceellent article written for FindLaw by Michael Dorf. You’ll learn about inherent powers and default powers. Here’s something that jumped out at me:
June 25th, 2006 at 12:51 pmAs for Karl Rove, there WAS a special prosecutor on the job for months, and determine that there was NO underlying crime, and are left with Scooter Libby, who is accused of charges unrelated to the original crime.
NYT should at least be investigated to the same extent Karl Rove was, so I suppose we are all in agreement then?
June 25th, 2006 at 12:53 pmDont leave the house Dean you are more likely tobe hit by lightning then by a terrorist but if there is a God it may be a good bit more likely.Maybe we should make war on the heavens
June 25th, 2006 at 12:53 pmFrankly your whole post reads like you don’t the first thing about freedom of the press or media law.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 25, 2006 @ 12:49 pm
And terribly embarassing for him that he has to have it pointed out for him by someone from South Africa…
Bruce, you know more about our country than most of the people who live here. They should be ashamed.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:55 pmYou guys just don’t get it. We are at war and have a legal right to conduct these legal operations to protect the country. Just because you are unaware of the facts of the legality of these operations is no excuse.
This patent nonsense. You are not “at war”. WWII is “at war”. This business is exactly that, business and repetitive use of the word legal doesn’t help one wit. Abe, you are an accessory to tens of thousands of murders by your support for this administration.
I wonder, will Americans in 20 years have the capacity of self reflection of the British or the Germans? The Vietnam experience doesn’t give me much hope:-( Two million dead, and not a hint of national guilt about it.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:56 pm#56 - Jason, there’s difference between, as you say “NO underlying crime,” and failing to indict because the special prosecutor determined he would not get a conviction with the evidence he had. That DOES NOT mean there was no crime.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:58 pm[…] dialogue) Filed Under: Uncategorized, Fox News Sunday, Attack the Media Trackback Permalink postCount(’10018260′); […]
June 25th, 2006 at 12:59 pmAs for Karl Rove, there WAS a special prosecutor on the job for months, and determine that there was NO underlying crime,
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 25, 2006 @ 12:53 pm
You know nothng about law either. He only determined that he could not prosecute the case.
There was most definitely foul play. There just isn’t yet enough information available to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:01 pmSoon our casualties in Iraq will surpass those of 9 11 and I’m thinking your alot more likely to die there as a soldier then as an psuedo patriot watching fox news in your living room .Why havent you enlisted my pro fascist friends .It doesn’t bother you to let others do your killing for you .True chicken hawks or have you encouraged your children to doit for you ?No worries if we invade Iran there will be a draft and you’ll be saved the trouble!
June 25th, 2006 at 1:01 pm…a special prosecutor on the job for months, and determine(d) that there was NO underlying crime…
Comment by ___— June 25, 2006 @ 12:53 pm
NO SUCH THING HAPPENED. Fitzgerald has given no such statement.
as a matter of fact he DID state that there WAS a crime - a covert agent was identified…
oh… what a wast of my time, you and your ilk are…
June 25th, 2006 at 1:01 pm[…] Rep. King: NYT Reporters Should Be Charged Under Espionage ActThink Progress, DC - 1 hour ago… Peter King (R-NY) argued that the NYT reporters, editors, and publishers responsible for that story should be charged under the Espionage Act, which is … […]
June 25th, 2006 at 1:01 pmexcuse me? The purpose of the Supreme Court has been to uphold the Executive Branch’s restrictions of constitutional rights during a time of war?
Which Constitution are you reading, and where do you find that stated purpose?
If what you say is true, then all a President need to is declare himself to be a War-Time President, and the Constitution becomes merely a scrap of paper. We don’t even need a formal declaration of war from the congress. The President becomes a self-appointed Dictator. Is that what you are arguing for?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:02 pmHere is where your intelligence and experience is needed.
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=299770
June 25th, 2006 at 1:03 pmThe President becomes a self-appointed Dictator. Is that what you are arguing for?
That appears to be the compelling logic of the republican position alright. Jason, I’m still just seeing silence. How many foreigners is one american worth.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:05 pm“Tell me, mother, do all non-Jews know that the Jew is as dangerous as a poisonous mushroom?”
Mother shakes her head.
“Unfortunately not, my child. There are millions of non-Jews who do not yet know the Jews. So we have to enlighten people and warn them against the Jews. Our young people, too, must be warned. Our boys and girls must learn to know the Jew. They must learn that the Jew is the most dangerous poison-mushroom in existence. Just as poisonous mushrooms spring up everywhere, so the Jew is found in every country in the world. Just as poisonous mushrooms often lead to the most dreadful calamity, so the Jew is the cause of misery and distress, illness and death.”
Just replace the word Jew with the word Muslim.
Chilling stuff.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/story2.htm
June 25th, 2006 at 1:08 pmPlease, give us a full vetting of the extent and legality of the program. Anytime anyone has asked, the Administration has raised the “national security and state’s secrets” shield to prevent full disclosure.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:08 pmMr. Hendler - no reply to #34?
according to an earlier thread:
50,000 Iraqis dead v. 2,500 U.S. casualties. That’s 20 to 1.
But they’re all “just a number.”
June 25th, 2006 at 1:10 pmBrian, Zookeeper, unbelieveable,
We had an investigation of Karl Rove, so how about an investigation of the NYT? Again, this is why no one heeds liberal views, because you don’t apply your “morals” or “values” equally to everyone.
As for whether or not we are in a WAR, I am certain that the Supreme Court will uphold how this situation was handled. The US was attacked, and the congress kept funding ALL of the president’s military initiatives, so they gave tacit approval for this WAR. I suspect that congress never declared war, because those who attacked us are NOT a recognized nation with an ambassador, but are paramilitary groups supported and harboured in many nations, which would make a Declaration of War convoluted and incapable of adapting as the enemy(s) do(es).
June 25th, 2006 at 1:11 pmThe ends justify the means approach to american foreign policy is morally bancrupt and and it provides a serious clue to why we are the worlds most serious terror supporters.But Ibelieve you aren’t bothered by our previous support of the very dictator we have just saved Iraqi’s from.The cost for your real world politic is reconded in childrens lives and this doen’t bother you as long as your not related to them Jason ?Wow how much does a conscience cost these days or did you ever possess one ?Mass murder over false premises torture the support of dictators ,all good American values When you put your hand over your heart to pledge allegiance is there anything there?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:13 pmJason comes in and spouts nonsense that when debunked, requires his hasty retreat. I’ve seen in on every thread he’s entered. He’s not offering us his thoughts, but those of someone else - therefore he cannot defend them.
My question to Jason,as his kind, is why do you continue to take the words of others in blind faith, who are making you look like uneducated morons? Isn’t it time to grow your own opinions? Oh, I know it takes effort to read books and think for yourself, but when you do, you’ll stop being teh butt of nearly every joke.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:14 pmJason M. Hendler
What is this story about first?
Basically, this administration is reading your bank details.
What was the Plame story all about?
Basically, a high ranking government official revealing the identity of a NOC agent, thereby endangering both her life, and the lives of her informants.
The two are not the same issue.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:15 pmAs for #34 and the other knee-jerk assumptions made as to how a president will now feel free to do anything and everything he wants during a time of WAR, the Supreme Court will rule on it. If the President ever DOES do anything blatantly aggregious, the House can impeach the president, and the Senate can expel him.
It’s nice that you guys start with the constitution, but you then have to follow up with the application of the constitution and the review of these applications by the Supreme Court. Without following all of that, simply quoting the constitution is incomplete.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:18 pmI wish to say to Mr. King - GO TO HELL; I want to know what our little wooden head president is up to.
I want the government to obey all laws, not just the ones that suit the sick agenda of this administration, which I feel is domination of all Americans - a dictatorship.
A smart man, which George Bush is not, would be able to protect us from terrorists without secretly subjugating our rights; but then a smart man would have finished Bin Laden in Afghanistan and not moved on to Iraq for god only knows what reason. Actually, Americans know subconsciously why Bush turned his attention to Iraq and it bothers the shit out of us all.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:21 pmWe had an investigation of Karl Rove, so how about an investigation of the NYT?
One broke the law (Rove) and the other is protected by law and Constitution (NYT). You’re trying to compare apples to oranges.
Again, this is why no one heeds liberal views, because you don’t apply your “morals†or “values†equally to everyone.
No one? Bush has an approval rating around 30%. Most people are against the war. I suggest you invest in a dictionary and look up the word ‘no one’. It doesn’t apply here at all.
Most Americans lean left. You really should learn that one.
As for whether or not we are in a WAR, I am certain that the Supreme Court will uphold how this situation was handled.
In other words, you cannot prove we are at war, but have faith in a court that gave Bush the Presidency in 2000. We bet you do.
The US was attacked,
Not by Iraq.
and the congress kept funding ALL of the president’s military initiatives, so they gave tacit approval for this WAR.
It’s not a war. More like an occupation…
I suspect that congress never declared war, because those who attacked us are NOT a recognized nation with an ambassador, but are paramilitary groups supported and harboured in many nations, which would make a Declaration of War convoluted and incapable of adapting as the enemy(s) do(es).
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 25, 2006 @ 1:11 pm
You really should stop now. I’m starting to feel embarassed for you - and I don’t embarass easily…
The rationalizations of those in denial are getting more and more irrational and desperate.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:22 pmJason M. Hendler
Do you really think the Republicans want to have a name for having had two presidents stripped of their powers? Nixon AND Bush? 1 can be called bad luck, 2 begins to look like a bad party.
So long as the house and the senate are Republican, it ain’t gonna happen. It isn’t like the Republicans will put state before faction.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:23 pmActually, it would have been quite simple. Congress merely need to have delcared war against named countries who support and harbour terrorists. As the terrorists move to unnamed countries, they get added to the list, until the entire planet is divided into those countries who are with us, and those countries who are against us.
Question: So, how is it we can have a War-Time President who can suspend constitutional rights, without a declaration of war?
Answer: All Hail Bush the Lesser, First Tyrant of the United States of America.
(Tyrant: an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution.)
June 25th, 2006 at 1:23 pmWould someone tell or show me where the USA declared war on Iraq. Even FDR had time to declare war. I don’t believe we have declared war on any nation sense.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:26 pmJason I quess you never read much from the project for a new american century of which virtually this entires administration are signatories !They planned to invade the middle east before china was capable of opposing us to control the rest of the planets oil as a tool of diplomacy .Thats called a war of aggression and is according to international conventions of which we are a part a very definite WAR CRIME ,but I suppose if the assumption of dictatorial powers by our president and the outright rejection ofthe constitution doesn’t bother you than you probably arent bothered by a little war crime by an administration which confessed before even committing the crime ,You friend are a Nazi
June 25th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#74, unbelievable,
I haven’t retreated on any point, but after explaining my points after a few hours, I have to log off and do other things. Should I tell each thread when I am signing off, so that you don’t feel abandoned? It’s good to know you think of me when I’m gone.
I understand that in your lexicon, the only “orignal” thoughts are those that are counter-cultural. Any thoughts consistent with those in power must be, in your world, un-original.
#75, Bruce,
Never said those issues were exactly the same. I think undermining our nation’s ability to monitor enemy activities during a time of war is far more serious than “outing” an agent who hasn’t be covert for over 5 years. Be that as it may, are you saying you don’t want a simple investigation into the facts? What are you afraid of?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:27 pmBut you already said “Again, the Supreme Court has upheld the Executive branch’s restrictions of constitutional rights during a TIME OF WAR - repreatedly - which is the purpose of the Supreme Court, as defined by the constitution.”
Yet you have yet to show us where that purpose is stated in the constitution.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:32 pmI haven’t retreated on any point, but after explaining my points after a few hours, I have to log off and do other things.
You disappear when the questions get tough. Or you just don’t answer them. That makes you an escape artist.
Should I tell each thread when I am signing off, so that you don’t feel abandoned? It’s good to know you think of me when I’m gone.
I don’t think of you now. You haven’t proven yourself relevent enough yet. And if you keep with this path of debate, you never will be.
I understand that in your lexicon, the only “orignal†thoughts are those that are counter-cultural. Any thoughts consistent with those in power must be, in your world, un-original.
Why do you (neocons) always revert to ad hominem attacks? You realize that they show that you are out of ammunition, and are now turning the situation personal, don’t you?
#75, Bruce,
Never said those issues were exactly the same. I think undermining our nation’s ability to monitor enemy activities during a time of war is far more serious than “outing†an agent who hasn’t be covert for over 5 years. Be that as it may, are you saying you don’t want a simple investigation into the facts? What are you afraid of?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 25, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
Funny how he arranges his posts like Seixon - and even talks like Seixon. If he’s not Seixon, thenhe must be one of his paid shrill colleagues….
June 25th, 2006 at 1:36 pm#80, Bris,
Thanks for making my point for me. You can’t see how convoluted it would be to add and remove names from the list over an extended period of time? Dubai would have started as an enemy, then taken off the list, etc. Libya also. Afghanistan on, then off, after we held elections.
It should be clear by now that the old rules of war are gone, and aggressors are free to act without worry of intervention by the UN. Afghanistan may not have ordered that attack on the WTC, but the Taliban didn’t condemn it and harboured those who did, so while the ACLU can split hairs over these nuances, the president chose to act.
Finally, if you love the constitution so much, let the congress and the supreme court deal with the president either now or later, as the constitution provides …
June 25th, 2006 at 1:36 pmPlame as an NOC was intimately involved as Iunderstand it with arramco (SAUDI OIL)and after her outing the Saudi’scleaned house ! So much for reliable intelligence from the worlds most important oil field ,No big deal Bush is personal friends with the family Which explains why all bin ladens relatives were flown out of the US before being interviewed by the FBI the day after 911at atx payers expense.What a country
June 25th, 2006 at 1:38 pmBriseadh na Faire, unbelievable, Navy Vet, freeman, katy, Bruce Gorton, and any others I may have missed:
Jason has already outed himself as having Asperger’s Syndrome. Let’s no longer enable him in his perseveration. He has already determined the “rightness” of his position, and believe me, he will not be wrong — and he will learn nothing frmo any of us.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:39 pmJason
Okay let me put it to you thus:
1 is a story where a CIA agent’s name was revealed, thereby compromising her.
The other is where a possible major breach of the US constitution was revealed, thereby fulfilling the press’ obligations as a watchdog body (though currently there is very little barking going on.)
June 25th, 2006 at 1:40 pmTranslation of all posts from Jason M. Hendler: “What was that? Did you hear something? Are you sure? There it is again! I’m scared!!” Dude, get back into life with “Depends”.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:41 pm#85, unbelieveable,
I posted for a few hours for the last 3 days, and I will admit, without these comments being nested, it is difficult for me to get to all of them.
Feel free to take a moment now to ask ANY question you feel I’ve dodged over the past 3 days.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:41 pmSeiton seiton oh this place is too cold for hell
June 25th, 2006 at 1:41 pmJason, I’m guessing you love your country and are a patriot.
You don’t see that subverting all the hard earned rights of americans, to protect against a will o the wisp is clearly unpatriotic? When pushed to articulate your position, I expect you are loyal to the the ideal of what america is and not Bush, or the republican party.
On 9/11 3000 americans died. A dreadful tragedy. However, since then you have lost your privacy, your right to representation and habeus corpus. Your president can have you arrested and spirited away on a whim. More than 40,000 Iraqis have died, and this has been laid, rightly, at your door. More than 2500 american servicemen, and over 15,000 have been maimed or injured.
The real threat is your government, not some neolithic sheep herder in Iraq. You need to snap out of it, for all our sakes. A truly tyrannical US (and you are well on the way to this) has the potential to unleash world war 3. The tanks of some future Zukov will eventually come crashing into an American Berlin. You cannot expect the other 95% of us to put up with this shit forever.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:43 pmOkay do you get payed for this Jason ?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:44 pmyou havent any problem with mass murder by american forces or our present support of a dictator like Karamov who the ex brittish abbassador says boils people alive to obtain evidence on alqaeda which is used by the US inorder to justify its War?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:49 pm#89, Bruce,
Everytime one of these wiretapping / surveillance concerns is raised, prior supreme court rulings are cited as precedent for these actions, yet the press still keep exposing these programs. In the most recent case, both the executive branch and the legislative branch requested the NYT not publish the story to maintain the effectiveness of the program.
Who elected the NYT? If elected members of the legislative and executive branches cite precendent and ask their efforts to defend the American people not be compromised, who are the people at the NYT to decide their way is right.
The right way to handle these stories are to hold them until the war is over, and have the Supreme Court rule on them.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:50 pm# 85
Maybe Jason H.is ignoring you.Why do you crave his attention so much at the same time calling him shrill?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:52 pmAs for Seixon,he has the best writing and expression of thought than anyone I’ve seen who posts here.
You’re just jealous.
#93, Brian,
During WWII, many rights previously enjoyed by American citizens were temporarily limited, and those restrictions were reviewed by the Supreme Court. Some were upheld, some were not, but the decisions were then used as precedents for future military actions.
You need to trust the process as laid out in the Constitution.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:54 pmdo you feel the president can assume dictatorial powers to protect us and have no fear that this could lead to trouble ?When do you think we’ll win this war ?How long will we have a defacto dictator for 10 years? 30? 100? Willyou trust any one elected in the future even if they win by .6 of 1% not to abuse this new interpretation of the constitution ?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:54 pmYou need to trust the process as laid out in the Constitution.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
You need to start taking your own advice; and stop trusting the Bush administration to follow that process.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:58 pmLook sybil has arrived just in time to take over for jason at exactly 11 o clock do you guys punch a time clock and do you get medical?
June 25th, 2006 at 1:58 pmJason M. Hendler
Link me to any story showing that there is a precedent for Bush’s wiretaps in American law.
June 25th, 2006 at 1:58 pm#99, freeman,
Your concerns aren’t unwarranted, but the constitution provides for impeachment, trial and expulsion of a president in the case of high crimes and misdemeanors, so no, I don’t fear a president of either party becoming dictatorial. Under Clinton, the ATF and FBI became too heavy handed in dealing with Randy Weaver, and later the Branch Dividians, which lead to Timothy McVeigh blowing up the Oklahoma Federal Building. Tyranny will NEVER exist in America.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:02 pmYou need to trust the process as laid out in the Constitution.
I need to do no such thing. I’m not an american, and I reject the idea that your consitution is binding on me in any way.
You need urgently to get out of the time warp that has you mentally stranded in the 1930’s.
To pro-Bush war supporters, the world is forever stuck in the 1930s. Every leader you don’t like is Adolf Hitler, a crazed and irrational lunatic who wants to dominate the world. Every country opposed to your interests is Nazi Germany.
From this it follows that every warmonger is the glorious reincarnation of the brave and resolute Winston Churchill. And one who opposes or even questions any proposed war becomes the lowly and cowardly appeaser, Neville Chamberlain. For any and every conflict that arises, the U.S. is in the identical position of France and England in 1937 – faced with an aggressive and militaristic Nazi Germany, will we shrink from our grand fighting duties in appeasement and fear, or will we stand tall and strong and wage glorious war?
It’s simply nonsense. We do not live in the 1930’s, we live in a networked interdependent world where communication is instant and culture in constant flux.
There are decades of valuable information available, gleaned by democratic states around the world that all support combating terrorism through the judicous application of law, not war.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:03 pmThis is a pointless conversation.With this whole house of cards collapsing around the neo fascists These types have no doubts whatsoever as to the honorable motives of the oil company executives running our nation into troubled waters in the worlds oil supply?These people are un real and I expect they probably have a good dental plan !
June 25th, 2006 at 2:04 pm#102, Bruce,
Charles Krauthammer has cited these precedents in his articles, so feel free to search for them yourself. I am now two hours past lunch, and will hand off to Sybil to carry the torch - LOL.
I will be back, should you guys come up with questions you feel that I’ve dodged.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:05 pmJason M. Hendler
I know Zimbabweans who said the same thing about Zimbabwe once.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:07 pm#106 - Charles Krauthammer? Christ on a cracker, Jason.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:07 pmYou’re just jealous.
Comment by Sybil — June 25, 2006 @ 1:52 pm
No that would only be you. Same for the being ignored part.
Go find your crayons…
June 25th, 2006 at 2:10 pmTyranny will NEVER exist in America.
What you mean is tyranny as you see it. Since you favour the current political climate, everything seems fine. However, what if a nuclear weapon is detonated in an american city, or some kind nanotechnology device that dissolves humans?
If you are willing to practically give up everything for a relativley minor attack, what will you give up for a truly serious one? The US is a pivotal country to world peace.
Keep up this America uber alles attitude, and eventually something like I describe above will happen. 5% of the global population cannot dominate the other 95% forever. You simply must work with the rest of us to create a more just global society. Your current behaviour, short of killing every other human on the planet, simply increases the risk of the worst case scenario and a global conflagration, instead of diminishing it.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:13 pmIf clintons heavy handedness caused Oklahoma city do you think the murder of probably millions in the third world thru the implentation of american foreign policies for more than a half century and our support of the worlds most horrific dictatorships not to mention our overthrow of democratically elected leaders won’t return to haunt us ?
June 25th, 2006 at 2:13 pmOkay, I have just done a quick search of Krauthammer’s stuff.
1: The guys a nut.
2: I haven’t seen him site any precedents. He has argued that the warrants have to be gotten from a secret court, but he doesn’t argue that the warrants are not needed.
Remember the wiretap scandal is far larger then just being people in other countries boet.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:16 pmsiby lis here to replace Jason is this a coincidence?Or does jason have multiple personality disorder?
June 25th, 2006 at 2:17 pmBrian - too bad you aren’t an American in the sense that I would vote for you for public office :). You are very articulate and succinct on this matter. If your words do not move Jason to reconsider his perspective on this current corrupt regime, I’m not sure anything will.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:18 pmHydra sound like a more applicable name here
June 25th, 2006 at 2:19 pmFreeman
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript (326 for future reference.)
You mean that hydra?
June 25th, 2006 at 2:24 pmI wish I could believe that electing brian would solve the problem but I think the 2 party system in its present form is untenable .More likey the large ,now international corporations are just taking turns running our country alternately !My personal belief is that the ballot is not likely to work and we need tochange the business as usual approach to american politics
June 25th, 2006 at 2:26 pmCrayons aren’t needed for my beautifully crafted linguistic artwork.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:27 pmBruce you bring the charcoal I’ve got the lighter fluid
June 25th, 2006 at 2:29 pmNo sybyl gas chambers and torture facilities will work better
June 25th, 2006 at 2:31 pmA person with Asperger syndrome may have trouble understanding the emotions of other people, and the subtle messages that are sent by facial expression, eye contact and body language are often missed. They also might have trouble showing empathy with other people. Because of this, a person with Asperger syndrome might be seen as egotistical, selfish or uncaring. In most cases these are unfair labels, because the affected person is neurologically unable to understand other people’s emotional states. They are usually shocked, upset and remorseful when told their actions were hurtful or inappropriate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger’s_syndrome#Characteristics
June 25th, 2006 at 2:32 pmBut be carefull they aren’t as clean as crayons your liable to get dirty
June 25th, 2006 at 2:33 pmGosh, if reporting on the actions of the government is espionage because it does not help the party in power, then democracy is dead in America. If what the NYT did constitutes espionage, then Cneney’s leaks to the press should be grounds for public execution.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:33 pm#118-Sybil- that is because you are the only one who can see it, as it does not exist outside of your mind.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:34 pmCrayons aren’t needed for my beautifully crafted linguistic artwork.
Comment by Sybil — June 25, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
Yes they are. It’s ugly, and you need to work on making it less so. Crayons would be a start.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:35 pmHey lets have a revolution We can start by ignoring the morally challenged
June 25th, 2006 at 2:35 pmRep. King must resign from the House of Representatives and then be sent to prison for his criminal defense of the Bush Regime! Shame on him!
June 25th, 2006 at 2:36 pm-Sybil- that is because you are the only one who can see it, as it does not exist outside of your mind.
Comment by Cyra Brown — June 25, 2006 @ 2:34 pm
Hi Cyra - How are you? Astute as ever I see…. :)
June 25th, 2006 at 2:38 pmFreeman - I’m voting for all qualified Independents. After that, I think I would be up for storming the Bastille… :)
We had a power outtage the other day, and after two hours, I understood why people who lived prior to the invention of electricty got more involved in government. They weren’t distracted by the idiot box (which I barely watch anymore. Just The Daily Show, Jack Cafferty, and an occasional educational program). I think people’s houses would have to catch fire before they considered abandoning the boob tube - and even then, maybe not in all cases…
June 25th, 2006 at 2:42 pmwe should focus on concrete strategies for refreshing our democracy instead of rhetorical answers to aspiring fascists who are only repeating the same weary philosophies of the cold war real politic.Mass murder assasinations dictator loving savagery.These policies are exactly the problem that has returned to roost .I have seen the enemy and he is us.Or atleast a sybling
June 25th, 2006 at 2:43 pmunb do you have directions to the bastille
June 25th, 2006 at 2:45 pmBruce if your still here .We can have our barbaque there
June 25th, 2006 at 2:47 pmFor it not existing outside of my mind,it sure is getting alot of attention here.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:49 pmEnjoy my colours;I’m lovin’it.
I still want to know what benifits you get working for fascists Inc.Do you get full medical?
June 25th, 2006 at 2:53 pmI do believe that an investigation from the Justice Department should be initiated to determine if a crime has been committed. It is obvious that if you reveal the methods used to identify and track enemy activities (and hence their plans and general strategies), then enemies will change their methods. This blatant undermining of US efforts to protect Americans raises the question as to whether or not these types of revelations by the press during a time of war are treasonous, prosecutable and punishable.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
For years now we have been told on TV that America is trying to track down terrorists through financial records and that it was difficult because the terrorists KNEW this and used a system called “Hawala” to transfer money.
If ANYTHING is done to the NYT it should be considered a formal declaration of war on the American Constitution.
No one trusts this corrupt bunch of criminals and we have no reason to trust them. They SAY they are doing one thing when they are actually doing something else.
NO declaration of war has been declared by Congress.. We are NOT at war. If we were we would have to declare war against a country .. and then the Saudi Arabia question would have to be brought up…. and BushCo wont let their cash cow get blamed for 911.
In WWII people did not have reason to believe that their government was protecting Germany/Japan from the American people. People did trust that America was doing the right thing. And so keeping secrets was much easier. People WANTED to keep secrets from the Germans and Japanese.
When the government SAYS it is doing something to protect you, but it must be kept secret … even though it is already public knowledge that the enemy knows about it then that means the government is hiding it FROM ITS PEOPLE… not the enemy.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:55 pmunb do you have directions to the bastille
Comment by freeman — June 25, 2006 @ 2:45 pm
1600 Pennsylvanian Avenue… :)
June 25th, 2006 at 2:55 pmJust getting the peppers. Can’t have a braai without peppers.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:56 pmFreeman,unbelievable is a ”teacher”,maybe she can give you a spelling lesson.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:58 pmNo,wait,I take that back;her spelling is as bad as yours.
#121 - That’s our Jason. It’s just a form of high functioning autism — people see them as quirky or odd.
June 25th, 2006 at 2:59 pmgotta go….. Boycott exxon and tell everyone else you know .Time to put the big guy in time out and it is so easy to use the gas station across the street .Maybe we should pick another corporation for a rewards program maybe the little guy !It would be very empowering to watch its numbers slide and it might make Cheneys gout flare up again.Even conservatives like our little sybling might enjoy messing with a large corporation.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:00 pm#137 - braai — I learn something new everyday! Cool!
June 25th, 2006 at 3:04 pmJason, you really need to check your facts
#103
“Under Clinton, the ATF and FBI became too heavy handed in dealing with Randy Weaver, and later the Branch Dividians, which lead to Timothy McVeigh blowing up the Oklahoma Federal Building.”
Bill Clinton was NOT President when Randy Weaver had his run in with the ATF-look at the date again, August 1992
#56
“As for Karl Rove, there WAS a special prosecutor on the job for months, and determine that there was NO underlying crime, and are left with Scooter Libby, who is accused of charges unrelated to the original crime.
“NYT should at least be investigated to the same extent Karl Rove was, so I suppose we are all in agreement then?”
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 25, 2006 @ 12:53 pm
To counter Karl Rove’s increasingly desperate rhetoric and obvious pandering to the extremists running the social agenda wing of the GOP, first take him out directly via what’s been his biggest success so far, avoiding indictment for his role in outing Valerie Plame
Valerie Plame’s job was to track & disrupt the transfers of WsMD to rogue regimes, groups & individuals
In order for Plame to be successful, the CIA set up the front of the energy company Brewster Jennings, and part of her efforts depended upon cultivating contacts and double agents within other Governments around the globe
Karl Rove let his personal desire for political payback outweigh his desire to keep the country safe
By outing Valerie Plame, Rove disrupted any investigations and leads she was involved in
By outing Valerie Plame, Rove blew the cover as well of the Brewster Jennings CIA Front AND all it’s foreign operatives, double agents and contacts that Plame dealt with
At the time of her outing, Plame was investigating Iran with regards to WsMD, and this Administration is using this self-inflicted sabotage of Plame to push an aggressive attitude of preemption against Iran, based on suspicions, NOT confirmed and independently verified facts.
So, how did outing Plame make this country safer as a result?
How did the Administration’s deliberate outing of Valerie Plame make it easier to recruit CIA operatives?
How did the inevitable outing of Brewster Jennings make it easier to recruit the double agents & foreign operatives necessary to successfully prevent the transfer of WsMD to rogue regimes(North Korea), groups(al-Qaeda) & individuals(Usama bin Laden)?
How does this Administration’s deliberate outing of Valerie Plame increase the level of trust and confidence between the Executive Branch and the CIA’s intelligence analysts?
There’s no way to answer those questions logically in a way that’s positive for this Administration
June 25th, 2006 at 3:04 pmsthpellink athide I can read the writing on the wall can you .Gute nacht mein schatzi hitler loves you
June 25th, 2006 at 3:05 pm# 128- Good day, Ms. Unbelievable! I’m good, but running WAY late for work, doggone TP, anyhow! So I gotta blaze, hope to ‘read’ you later!
June 25th, 2006 at 3:11 pm# 136 unbelievable:
When you start that glorious revolution,it looks like you will be going to the wrong place.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:16 pmWhere is ”Pennsylvanian”ave.anyway?
#145 Sybil I rest my case
June 25th, 2006 at 3:19 pm#121, unbelieveable,
That is an excellent and astute description of Asperger’s Syndorme from Wikipedia, but with counseling and practice, many of those deficiencies are overcome. Reading facial expressions and body language can be acquired, but the unconscious behaviour of mirroring or parroting those same expressions and gestures back is difficult, which is important for making others “feel” empathized with. Asperger people do empathize, but the communication of that empathy does not come across.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:29 pmAt the time of her outing, Plame was investigating Iran with regards to WsMD, and this Administration is using this self-inflicted sabotage of Plame to push an aggressive attitude of preemption against Iran…
Comment by KingCranky — June 25, 2006 @ 3:04 pm
exactly - it wasn’t just payback for being embarrassed by wilson… plame had to go, so that they could carry out the plans for iran…
gawd, these people are tiring… and so scary…
June 25th, 2006 at 3:34 pmThat’s our Jason. It’s just a form of high functioning autism — people see them as quirky or odd.
Comment by Zookeeper — June 25, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
I read the whole article… My cousin has a son who is autistic, and because he has problems communicating, he avoids eye contact and keeps to himself. Whenever you understand his way of communicating (which is with objects in an order, he is the happiest kid I have ever seen). My cousin did research on autism, and as a result of a connection to red dye #40 - a petroleum product that actually is FDA approved! - he took everything with the dye in it away from his son. In teh time since, I’ve heard that the boy is better able to communicate and is less of a wall flower. Which is why Jason should eat healthier… You are what you eat!
Anyway, it seemed to fit the fact that Jason doesn’t understand why we don’t agree with him. Jason - it is because you are focusing on biased information. I highly recommend you find some independent and non-biased sources for your information and you will quickly understand, I hope, why liberals take the point-of-view that we do.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:46 pmWhere is ‘’Pennsylvanian’’ave.anyway?
Comment by Sybil — June 25, 2006 @ 3:16 pm
With the four corners of the Earth found in the 30-something different versions of the Bible. Start reading now and see if you can find it…
June 25th, 2006 at 3:50 pmI highly recommend you find some independent and non-biased sources for your information and you will quickly understand, I hope, why liberals take the point-of-view that we do.
Comment by unbelievable
I wouldn’t count on that happening! It would probably cause him too much anxiety. As I said above, it’s called perseveration.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:56 pm#151, unbelievable,
Only the lack of food affects my moods, which is why I left to eat after postponing my lunch for two hours.
LOL, as for understanding / agreeing with you, I do watch CNN and read liberal news sites and blogs, so I draw on a wide range of “facts”. I don’t quote the others, because they tend to be founded on emotion, and not fact.
I like Ann Coulter, because after years of liberals screaming racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semite, and any other PC slander they could create, it is great to hear someone unload on liberals and then watch them howl in rage.
Thanks for the book recommendation, I will make a note. In return, I recommend a textbook: “The Book of Isms”, which defines capitalism, socialism, fascism, communism, libertarianism, etc. Since reading it, I am able to discuss those topics far more accurately.
June 25th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#153, zookeeper,
What, exactly, is perseveration?
June 25th, 2006 at 4:01 pm#155 - perseveration - the tendency for a memory or idea to persist or recur without any apparent stimulus for it.
You have been demonstrating perseveration for us these last few days.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:05 pmBook of isms, huh? That is a conservative book alright. How about my having read the Bible last summer - will that suffice? :)
As a former conservative, I’ll just say, I see it completely 180 from what you’ve described. Both sides have their wingnuttery, but for the most part, it is liberals who are logical (the connection to science which is about facts and proof), and conservatives who are emotional (the connection to religion which is about emotions and faith).
I like being a liberal better, obviously. That whole part about liberty just rings a bell…
As for food - I’m a vegan. It started about 15 years ago when my father was dying form colon/ liver cancer and I asked his doctor what could I do to avoid a similar fate. He suggested giving up certain foods. I read this wonderful book called ‘Food and Mood’ or something like that, and my life has changed drastically as a result. One of my younger brothers already went through chemotherapy for colon cancer. His habits are the same as my father’s… Just my two cents.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:10 pmRadical muslims may hate our freedoms but its the Republicans that are successfully eliminating them bit by bit.
Representative King’s call to prosecute the press for telling the public what it has every right to know is just the most recent step the Republicans and the Bush ideologues “work hard” - using W’s parlance - to diminish freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom from unwarranted searches and siezures, and so on.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:11 pmIt already does.
1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
I guess some people can’t figure out a typo. Oh, and, Washington, District of Columbia. For complete directions, go to mapquest.com, type in the above address as the ending location and you address as the starting location. click on “get directions.”
June 25th, 2006 at 4:18 pm#156, zookeeper,
I dunno, given that Dems have not regained the house since 1994, and NOT moderated the extreme positions that keep them OUT of power, it is libs who suffer perseveration. What would be its opposite, because that is what flip-flopper John Kerry has. Has he decided that he’s still a Vietnam vet?
#157, unbelieveable,
Book of Isms ISN’T conservative, it is a text book in its 11th edition. Liberals have a collection of mutually exclusive causes that keep them in the minority. Conservatives have consistent policies based on broadly accepted values, which keep them in the majority.
As for health, we are all going to die, and I have achieved all I’m going to be able to achieve, so now I just coast, not really caring to maximize health, etc.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:19 pmIn todays news, I read an article to the effect that W is trying for a reenactment of the line-item veto. That’s the thing that the Supremes threw out as unconstitutional in 1998. I also wonder why he even needs one if his signing statements serve the save purpose.
June 25th, 2006 at 4:28 pmBook of Isms ISN’T conservative, it is a