VIDEO: Snow Lashes Out at Media, Suggests NYT Has Undermined Americans’ ‘Right to Live’
VIDEO: Snow Lashes Out at Media, Suggests NYT Has Undermined Americans’ ‘Right to Live’
President Bush today called the New York Times story revealing the administration’s monitoring of bank records “disgraceful,” and said the decision to publish details of the program “does great harm to the United States of America.”
Press Secretary Tony Snow followed up with another attack at today’s press briefing:
[T]he New York Times and other news organizations ought to think long and hard about whether a public’s right to know in some cases might override somebody’s right to live, and whether in fact the publications of these could place in jeopardy the safety of fellow Americans.
Asked whether the White House attacks on the New York Times represented an effort “to create a chilling effect on media outlets,” Snow responded, “I don’t think so.”
Full transcript below:
SNOW: Well, I’ll tell you what happened is the New York Times clearly was in the lead on this one. It was ahead. And as it was getting ready to publish, other newspapers made inquiries and we asked questions.
But this is one where the New York Times clearly was leading and everybody waited until it posted its piece online to do their own publications.
QUESTION: We’re told the vice president’s going to make similar comments at his appearance today. With the president and the vice president in essence going after the New York Times today, are they trying to create a chilling effect on media outlets that might…
(CROSSTALK)
SNOW: I don’t think so. No, I don’t think so. It’s a very good question, though. If the New York Times decides that it is going to try to assume responsibility for determining which classified secrets remain classified and which don’t, it ought to accept some of the obligations of that responsibility. It ought to be able to take the heat as well.
So the administration certainly is going to lay out its concerns and what it may mean for the safety of the American people and the integrity of the process of developing intelligence that can permit us to track down terrorists and prevent them from killing again.
That’s what this is all about. It’s about what we can do in a time of war.
Traditionally in this country in a time of war members of the press have acknowledged that the commander in chief, in the exercise of his powers, sometimes has to do things secretly in order to protect the public. This is a highly unusual departure. It’s interesting; the Times talking about this program having been a departure from previous banking efforts. This is also a departure from the longstanding traditions here in the United States.
So it’s not designed to have a chilling effect. I think if the New York Times wants a spirited debate about it, it’s got it.
But certainly nobody is going to deny First Amendment rights. But the New York Times and other news organizations ought to think long and hard about whether a public’s right to know in some cases might override somebody’s right to live, and whether in fact the publications of these could place in jeopardy the safety of fellow Americans.
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Just goes to show. As long as this administration thinks it has the power to trample over the right to know what the hell our government is doing to screw us over, like many other freedoms, Freedom of the Press will suffer. Now, lets see how fast the Neocons come running to defend this piece of…err, stuff. ;)
June 26th, 2006 at 2:05 pmAs I stated yesterday, this leak, at a minimum, requires an investigation, because it undermines our country’s ability to defend itself during a time of WAR.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:09 pm“No experiment can be more interesting than that we are now trying, and which we trust will end in establishing the fact, that man may be governed by reason and truth. Our first object should therefore be, to leave open to him all the avenues to truth. The most effectual hitherto found, is the freedom of the press. It is, therefore, the first shut up by those who fear the investigation of their actions.” –Thomas Jefferson to John Tyler, 1804.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:09 pmFNC is on red alert over this with all available resources trying to close the NYT for good. It’s funny that in all these discussions the WSJ is never brought up, only the LA Times and NYT, hmmm I wonder why that is……
June 26th, 2006 at 2:10 pmOnce we give the President all the power he says he needs to fight a war, what is there to stop a president from starting a war to get the power he wants?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:11 pm#3 Good post, Buford. Well-timed. Too bad the Republican Party doesn’t hold the Founding Fathers in the same esteem as we.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:12 pmfunny they bring this up. all the information they leaked in the plame case. They are hypocrits.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:14 pmSo, does outting a covert CIA operative “override somebody’s right to live”?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:14 pmHow orweillian of the administration.
We will dictate what we “think” is appropriate for the news prints to run!
In case any of the nimwits didn’t know, 3 papers ran this story one being a heavily conservative one.
I’d love to hear the troop withdrawl spin as well.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:15 pmIsn’t this “shoot the messenger” thing getting a bit old? Whenever they get caught breaking the law it’s always the messenger (ie, press, whistleblower, etc) at fault, not the lawbreakers. Why isn’t everyone wise to this by now?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:15 pmThis administration is violating the constirution and has been, reports have stated, before 9/11. I applaud NYT’s reporting efforts in outing these illegal acts.
SnowJob is nothing more than W’s talking parrot. A real parrot would have more credibility though.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:16 pmit does great harm, but apparently only when the leak is NOT coming from inside the White House…
June 26th, 2006 at 2:18 pmAre Democrats going to defend the press? Are they going to go that extra mile to rally support for our Constitution? Maybe while they’re at it press for a definition of success in this so-called “War on Terror”?
No.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:19 pmI really don’t understand the drama, given that this knowledge was PUBLIC SINCE 2002. Is anyone else aware of this? Is this credible?
If this is true, and it certainly seems to be, then the whole issue is in fact a non-issue, given that terrorists had access to this information for four years now.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:20 pmSo…this is undermining Americans’ “right to live”, but 2,500 American servicemen that have died fighting an unjust war is “just a number”.
Good to see that the White House is getting their money’s worth out of Tony Snow.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:21 pmSnow is an IDIOT!! Heckuva job, Snowflake!!
June 26th, 2006 at 2:21 pmQuick, someone tell Joe Wilsona nd Valerie Plame!…
Z.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:21 pmI hope if and when this ends that Center for American Progress and Thinkprogress and all the intelligent folks who blog here remember that the Democrats did the absolute minimal in defending our Constitution.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:22 pmRepublicans are cowards.
They like to talk tough about the War on Terror, but the truth is that the vague threat of brown person with a gun or a bomb is enough for them to hand over all their hard-earned liberties to an adminstration who promises to keep them safe and warm.
The true Americans are those who bravely face the threat of terrorism while refusing to give away the freedoms our verterans and soldiers fought so hard to protect.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:23 pmHere we go again.
I’d like the rightwingers to explain how George Bush’s many words to the public about our efforts at tracking terrorists have not endangered us. He certainly doesn’t have a problem talking to the public about it when he sees fit. But damn the press if they emit as much as a whisper.
Glenn Greenwald pointed out a few of these instances. Details here. I continue to post this info awaiting an honest response. Haven’t gotten one so far.
Highlights:
George Bush, telling terrorists about how we use “roving wiretaps” to eavesdrop on their calls -Columbus, Ohio - June 9, 2005.
George Bush, in 2004, telling terrorists that we are engaging in notice-less “sneak and peak” searches of their apartments - Hershey, Pennsylvania, April 19, 2004.
George Bush, alerting terrorists to changes in our techniques for eavesdropping on their cell phone calls - Baltimore, Maryland, July 20, 2005.
George Bush, alerting terrorists to the fact that we are eavesdropping on their telephone calls - Baltimore, Maryland, July 20, 2005.
George Bush, in 2004, telling terrorists that we monitor them by tracing their “money trails” - Hershey, Pennsylvania, April 19, 2004.
George Bush, telling terrorists how the Government monitors their computer communications and obtains their e-mails - Columbus, Ohio, June 9, 2005.
George Bush, detailing the threat priorities of the Homeland Security Department - Columbus, Ohio, July 20, 2005.
George Bush, detailing security measures taken against threats to American seaports - Columbus, Ohio, July 20, 2005.
Finally, Glenn provides this information:
…the Editors of National Review — before the Times ever breathed a word about the President’s eavesdropping “program” — damaging national security and helping Al Qaeda by telling terrorists that we monitor their phone calls, use roving wiretaps, examine their library records, use “sneak-and-peak” searches of their apartments, and read their e-mails.
He continues: Doesn’t President Bush and National Review realize that “discussing th(ese) program(s) is helping the enemy” because “the discussion about how we try to find them will enable them to adjust”?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:24 pm#13 Calm
June 26th, 2006 at 2:24 pmOne can hope! We need to keep the pressure on Bush supporters to justify why we went into Iraq and, more timely, what measureable objectives need to be met to define “victory” which will allow our soldiers to come home and the rest of us to “keep” the rights that are being suspended. NO SOLDIER LEFT BEHIND
Even more evidence that Snow was a hack journalist at best. Real jounalists seek the truth, they don’t suppress it.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:24 pmchildren, settle down, back to your seats …
We had an investigation into the Valerie Plame complaint, now lets have an investigation of the New York Times - I bet ole Pinch’s buttcheeks are clinching over this one.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:25 pmSNOW: and whether in fact the publications of these could place in jeopardy the safety of fellow Americans
June 26th, 2006 at 2:26 pmYeah, it sucks when somebody is spying on you, right, Tony?
I wonder what the liberal reaction would have been if say the NYT or similar paper had disclosed during WWII that we had broken the Japanese code or released the place and date of the planned D-Day invasion? See, I see no difference in what they are doing to destroy our nation during A TIME OF WAR. GET IT? WE ARE AT WAR. THEY ARE COMMITTING TREASON AND SHOULD BE TRIED FOR IT!
June 26th, 2006 at 2:26 pmI’d bet my last falafel that Pinchy Sulzberger roots for the enemy - not that he’s anti-American - it just makes a good story.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:26 pmIs the “think long and hard” doctrine in the Bill of Rights? Or *wtf*?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:26 pmThose who would trade a little liberty for a little security deserve neither.
Give me liberty or give me death.
The only thing we have to fear…is fear itself.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:27 pmI love the fact that they want to protect us.
But who, in the name of the LORD, will protect us from the “protectors.”
(Hint: I used to think it was the FISA court and the Congress… but not any more.)
June 26th, 2006 at 2:27 pm#2 - Uhhh Jason? Please cite for us the Declaration of War that was made by the House of Representatives & what date that declaration was made.
The House didn’t declare war. And if the House doesn’t declare war, you, nor anyone else can claim the technical status of WAR. I can’t believe we still have to explain this to you guys, EVERY TIME!!!! Maybe you’re just plain stupid? Have you considered posting over at Redstain? They’d love your limited cognative skills.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:28 pmReply to #18:
There is a well-known and oft-quoted quote out there (don’t know exactly who to attribute it to):
¨All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
Now, I don’t know about the Democrats being ‘good men’, but one thing is indisputable: they have indeed done nothing to stem the tide of fascism that is currently eroding away our civil rights, and for that inaction, they are every bit as accountable as the Republicans.
I, for one, have lost all faith in not only our elected officials, but in our very system of government itself. All this can only end very badly for everyone concerned.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:29 pmSo when the Bush administration loses control of its ability to control the media, when the media doesn’t want to do the bidding of the Bush administration (which it’s been doing a pretty good job of over the last five years anyway), the administration attacks it.
Nice to see those Bush Republican smear attacks working on the free press.
Nice to see the trolls and right wingers defending the attack on our civil rights.
Nice to see this country continue to slide toward a dictatorship.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:31 pmPEOPLE. This is a NON-ISSUE. Again, the information that the Times revealed was made public in 2002. So you’re really just letting yourselves be manipulated by the right-wingers if you don’t bother to point this out. Don’t let that happen!
June 26th, 2006 at 2:31 pmThis after our drunken coward of a leader g.w.bush threw a tantrum today on the news channels.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:31 pmI can now understand why he was always afraid of being called a wuss.
I wonder what the liberal reaction would have been if say the NYT or similar paper had disclosed during WWII that we had broken the Japanese code or released the place and date of the planned D-Day invasion? See, I see no difference in what they are doing to destroy our nation during A TIME OF WAR. GET IT? WE ARE AT WAR. THEY ARE COMMITTING TREASON AND SHOULD BE TRIED FOR IT!
Comment by Randy — June 26, 2006 @ 2:26 pm
hey Randy, I know for a fact I’ve heard that comparison somewhere before, oh wait…I know now….on Fox News this weekend! Come up with your own flawed comparisons next time smart guy.
BTW breaking the Japanese code didn’t violate the Constitution and therefore wouldn’t have been reported. That’s the difference.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:32 pmJason,
What war? A fictional war based on a fictional story that a group of fictional terrorists attacked us? The US government has spent a fortune spreading the myth that its “Al Queda” creation attacked us and the balloon has been deflating for some time. No amount of money is going to keep it afloat. The parade will be over soon. Good try, though, promoting the investigation of the leak.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:32 pm#2
Which declared war is this that you are talking about and how does it pertain to the power of the executive branch and allow it to bypass the laws and courts?
I’ll wait for your answer…..a long time.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:33 pmReply to #34:
What tantrum? Can you post a link?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:33 pmYeah, Tony, supress liberties, begin to burn books, make everybody a potential suspect of terrorism. We are at war, right? That is the country you deserve: Fearland.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:35 pmHow’s that Fear working for you, Randy? Do you shit yourself every time you walk past a brown person?
Do you piss your pants when a car backfires?
Are you afraid of leaving your house in the morning? Of leaving your bed?
How is it to be so afraid all the time?
We have an enemy, the enemy is winning Randy. They are forcing us to change our way of life, which is what they want. They want us to be afraid, to do what we are doing. They are winning Randy.
The comparisons you cite are not apt analogies. This isn’t breaking the Japanese code or talking about when/where Operation Overlord would be launched, this is the President invading your personal life. Invading your home. Rifling through your private documents, your private phone calls, your transactions.
Your President is doing so much more to destroy our way of life than the terrorists ever could. He is concentrating unprecedented power in the executive branch, reducing the legislative branch to a rubber stamp. He is undermining the power of the courts. He is, in short, acting like a dictator. And that, Randy, undermines our way of life.
Fear is not what Americans do. We are not afraid. Stand up, and Be a Man Randy. Stop being Afraid.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:35 pmRANDY - I’m pretty sure the Liberal, patriotic reaction to your hypothetical would have been the same as you are hearing today. If the leadership of this country is breaking laws and violating the Constitution in the name of war or national security, they should be exposed and held accountable.
We are nation of laws, not men. If Bush is breaking laws, the public has the right to know. The NYT and LAT are doing their patriotic duty.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:36 pmSo much drama. Show should be a playwright.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:37 pmRe #2:
Well, for one thing, Jason, we are not at war, you ninny. What we are “at” is a misguided congressionally authorized act of aggression based on lies and fabrications.
Every major news outlet in the country ought to be publishing every secret operation this neofascist bunch is doing. But like you, they are cowardly, and won’t.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:37 pmlil like the pot callin the kettle black?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:38 pmIf by some miracle, the dems do gain some seats this year and somehow retake the White House in ‘08 and after their victory party, there most likely will be an attack by Al Qaeda in ‘09, those who survive can just call the NYT and thank them for exposing how just Republicans are fighting the war on terror.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:38 pmRandy (#25):
We’re at war? Since when?
According to the US Constitution (that nasty document that always gets in the way) and the War Powers Act, only CONGRESS can declare war.
Hmmm… it was WWII, I believe, the last time that Congress declared war.
Therefore…. we are NOT at war.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:38 pmOne point that should be made crystal clear for everyone concerned:
Lots of right-wingers point towards Congress’ granting of emergency war powers to the President as justification for all these wholesale violations of civil rights. The problem with that justification is that the Constitution (and amendments therof) is, and remains, the highest law of the land, and no mere Congressional resolution can contravene it. If the resolution is in fact in conflict with the Constitution, it is by definition unconstitutional. Period.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:38 pmThat was pretty mild. Nothing groundbreaking there.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:39 pmWhile our friends randy and mighty aphrodite are so hot and bothered by what the NYT did, I wonder why they aren’t foaming at the mouth to get the person who gave the NYT the information? Or do they think that the NYT has a mole working in the Bush administration under “deep cover”? Actually, the more I think about it, I don’t really care what they think. They feel that a president who makes up his own laws and feels that he is not bound by Acts of Congress should be allowed to conduct an illegal war any way he sees fit.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:39 pmIf by some miracle, the dems do gain some seats this year and somehow retake the White House in ‘08 and after their victory party, there most likely will be an attack by Al Qaeda in ‘09, those who survive can just call the NYT and thank them for exposing how just Republicans are fighting the war on terror.
Comment by Randy — June 26, 2006 @ 2:38 pm
Ok and if that turns out to be false, will you go into exile on St. Elba?
The War on Terra is a metaphor, I hope your children are smarter than you.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:41 pm>
Since when is shredding the constitution “defending” the country?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:41 pmSome of you guys don’t get it… if we abandon the freedoms that define America, we have lost the “war”.
Hundreds of thousands of soldiers have died to protect America’s freedom in the last 230 years. Please don’t let their sacrific be in vain.
I know most of us aren’t overjoyed with the lack of Democrats in Congress being able to do anything with this administration, but….tripmaster monkey….why are you blaming democrats on par with republicans? Have you read the news at all? Democrats have been outvoted by the majority party on too many occasions. Who’s fault is that? It’s the fault of the morons who vote for republicans.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:42 pmEveryone needs to back and read and/or listen to Bush’s speech to the Nation following 9/11. It was 9/21, I believe.
Bush says to the Nation, “I will do what is legal and right.”
June 26th, 2006 at 2:42 pmpesf..so if…the AG prosecutes any one for whatever with respect to “crimes”, are they crimes if in fact the war was maufactured?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:42 pmI mean this is insane now…(feingold)…a white house under siege for a gigantic miscue..alice in wonder landesq where what is isnt?
Reporting the facts is just reporting the facts. Did the NY Times make up these facts? So no one in the government has any equal culpability to this act of undermining American’s safety? I think more revelations are coming and this is just the Administrations way to stop the bleeding and do a little character assassination to lessen the damage.Kill the messenger if you will.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:42 pmRelax. We will all be much safer in an oppressive police state. Freedoms, not so much.
-GSD
June 26th, 2006 at 2:44 pmI am sure this fall they will tell us that our “right to live” is more important than our right to have votes counted in the 2006 midterm elections.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:44 pmI am still waiting for the GUN RECORDS monitoring story to come out….
Then we will see how far the RW cheerleading squad will go to defend this man and his admin…..
June 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmBush and Bin Laden’s polling numbers track each other very closely — when one goes up, the other goes down, etc. Neither were doing very much or very well publically until the other came on the scene.
Bin Laden has been pushing Bush’s buttons successfully since 9/11, and now we are witnesssing the slow death of democracy in America. Bin Laden has scored a complete victory over America by manipulating Bush into reducing the Constitutional rights of the average Acitizen. Nationally we’re are becoming a shadow of ourselves and whether there’s another terrorist attack or not seems kind of beside the point.I can only hope that we snap out of it and return to our former inner greatness.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmRANDY’s ignorance and fear are, sadly, typical of Bush supproters. As long as Bush is keeping them safe from scary brown people, no laws should get in his way. Blank check, all the way.
“If Bush wants to conduct house-to-house searches looking for terror clues, no problem - I got nothing to hide”, they’ll say.
Meanwhile, they’ll praise the bombing of the brown people in Iraq and Afghanistan who ‘want to kill us for our freedoms’.
Anyone else see the irony?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:45 pmAs if the press finally revealing warantless searches of bank records is any more surprising that warrantless searches of voice and data communications. Do you really think that bin Laden and the rest of the religious nut cases who want to attack us have been recently using these electronic means to communicate and move money around? They stopped that long ago - the only people being spied on now are domestic dissenters and those that question the Bush admistration, i.e., the rest of the world.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:46 pmTraditionally in this country in a time of war members of the press have acknowledged that the commander in chief, in the exercise of his powers, sometimes has to do things secretly in order to protect the public.
Tony Snowjob
Thats and excellent point.
And when we’re at war, we’ll let you know Tony. In the meantime we opt for a free and open press.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:46 pmThis is nothing but a well orchestrated move by the administration to act outraged at the so called liberal media to gain the higher ground, when in all likelyhood it was purposefully leaked, probably by none other than Bushes brain KKK Rove.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:46 pmThe true strength and power of this nation does not lie in its laws, every nation has law, some good, some not so good.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:47 pmThe strength of this nation lies in its truth.
The real problem this administration has is, it has been wrong and inept so many times now and not forth coming, that I feel near every aspect of what it does is suspect and there fore truth shall set us free.
The NYT undermines the “right to live.” Another memorable quote from Mr. Snow.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:48 pmApparently the overdramatic response reflects the White House’s anger at having been caught again in trashing the constutution.
For 230 years, the constitution has seen the US through many sad and dangerous times, but BushCo has decided that they alone are arbiters of all that is America.
The “deciders” have decided that the constitution is a nuisance standing in their way of fascism. They declarer that free press (the fourth estate) acting in its role as watchdog over the government is traitorous - why? is it because the lies, deception and duplicity of this administration has been exposed on many occasions. BushCo would prefer to have an American Pravda.
Actually the press has been complicit with BushCo in the past: the spreading of false information before the Iraq invasion; in holding back information for one year on BushCo spying on Americans without a warrant because if they had published their news when they got it, it might have affected Bush’s “victory” in 2004.
The brazen attempt to control the free press, and the unchecked abuse of the constitution by BushCo is shocking.
No investigation needed. If you just click on the link Big Mike provided, you will see that the UN Al Qaeda and Taliban Monitoring Group has already made this information public in December of 2002.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:49 pmGeez with all this outrage, you would think the President sat and read “My Pet Goat” while the nation was being attacked…..oh wait…..doh.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:52 pmSoon to come: “The Right to Believe”! Of course, if you don’t “Believe Properly”, we have some piles of wood over here for you to step into and “meditate on the consequences of your erroneous beliefs”. Where’s a good Torquemada just when you really need one?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:52 pmChildren, settle down …
The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld the Executive branch’s restrictions of civil liberties during a TIME OF WAR (pertaining to WWII), and will again, should each and everyone of these issues be brought before SCOTUS after we win the WAR ON TERROR. You know this will be the result as surely as I do.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:53 pm#60
First, if you don’t like America, then leave! There are a few countries you could move to that love the way you think. Secondly, I am not a racist but it sounds like you are. Thirdly, tell me how have you been personally affected by the Bush administration. I hear many people claim their rights have been violated but when it comes right down to it, no one can supply specific examples. I wish liberals would stop trying to defeat Bush and spend more time trying to develop that agenda they are always talking about. No strike that. Continue to bash Bush, it helps the Republicans to continue to win elections.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:54 pmEarth to Republican morons: terrorists, criminals (including republican lobbyists), and rogue regimes (if they are minimally intelligentl), already know that their money is being tracked and they take steps to hide it. In fact, it has been tracked for decades and the tracking authority was enhanced in the so-called Patriot Act.
So get a grip and get a clue.
The question you should be asking is this: what is Bush hiding from the American public about his actions that he doesn’t want us to know? When that question is answered we’ll know the reasons for the unprecedented secrecy employed by this administration.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:54 pmI think it’s time we start using surveillance and every other means to monitor and spy on public officials 24/7. - and they’re family.
See how they like it.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:55 pmRandy: “First, if you don’t like America, then leave!” - - Wow, time warp to the ’60s, man.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:56 pmHaven’t we been hearing since 9/11 that Treasury was monitoring bank transactions to attempt to catch terrorist activity? I don’t see what the big deal about the Times article is anyway, are there any terrorists out there who don’t think we’re trying to detect them? You’d have to be pretty stupid, like, say, the suspected terrorists in Miami, to not be aware that a large transfer of funds is going to catch someone’s attention.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:57 pm#67
Yes, and Mr. Gore would have continued to bore us with his slide show on GW.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:57 pmImpeach Bush yourself! This is much more than just a petition.
There’s a little known and rarely used clause of the in the rules for the House of Representatives which sets forth the various ways in which a president can be impeached. Only the House Judiciary Committee puts together the Articles of Impeachment, but before that happens, someone has to initiate the process.
That’s where we come in. In addition to the State-by-State method, one of the ways to get impeachment going is for individual citizens like you and me to submit a memorial. ImpeachforPeace.org has created a new memorial based on one which was successful in impeaching a federal official in the past. You can find it on their website as a PDF.
You can initiate the impeachment process yourself by downloading the memorial, filling in the relevant information in the blanks (your name, state, etc.), and sending it in.
http://ImpeachForPeace.org/ImpeachNow.html
More information on the precedent for submitting an impeachment
memorial, and the House Rules on this procedure, can also be found at
the above address.
If you have any doubts that Bush has committed crimes warranting
impeachment, read this page: http://ImpeachForPeace.org/evidence/
If you’re concerned that impeachment might not be the best strategy
at this point, read the bottom of this page: http://ImpeachForPeace.org
“I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we’re really talking about peace.”
Bush, June 18, 2002
“War is Peace.”
June 26th, 2006 at 2:58 pmBig Brother in George Orwell’s 1984
I am sure that comprehensive and complete spying on our financial transactions and bank accounts has to be very effective at stopping Muslim extremists.
After all, its not like they are gonna put their money in PIGGY BANKS!
June 26th, 2006 at 2:58 pmSecrecy is the start of tyranny - Heinlein
June 26th, 2006 at 2:58 pmHow much longer are we going to allow King George and all these Tory Loyalists to spit on the Constitution and the rights of all patriotic Americans?
June 26th, 2006 at 2:58 pmPoor scared Randy. You should maybe go back to bed little one, we will wake you when it is safe.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:59 pmGeorge W. Bush
Hershey Lodge and Convention Center
Hershey, Pennsylvania
WhiteHouse.gov
http://www.whitehouse.gov/ news/ releases/ 2004/ 04/ 20040419-4.html
Looks like Bush is the guy who let the cat outta the bag on this one. Let’s start the investigation.
KILL THE MESSENGER NOW!
June 26th, 2006 at 3:00 pmReply to #60:
First, if you don’t like America, then leave!
You seem confused. It’s not that we don’t like America…it’s that we don’t like what Dubya & Company is doing to America. BIG difference.
I hear many people claim their rights have been violated but when it comes right down to it, no one can supply specific examples.
If you can’t find specific examples, Randy, it’s because you’re not looking. I don’t know whether that’s from laziness or design, but it amounts to the same either way. Open your eyes…about ten minutes of Googling will supply you with hundreds of examples…that is, if you’re intellectually honest enough to accept the facts available to everyone.
Continue to bash Bush, it helps the Republicans to continue to win elections.
If you sincerely think anyone has ‘won’ an election since 2000, you’re even more deluded than you appear.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:01 pmdamn, now randy thinks that those of us who don’t support unbridaled totalitarianism should up and leave the country… Ouch!
yo, nazi randy…..how bout you move to a country that allows its leaders to do whatever it wants, keeps it’s opponents in jail, requires you to abide by a specific religion….yea, you know….I’m asking you to go live in Saudi Arabia. You’d love it there…Just get used to saying Allah Akabar.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:02 pm#69 Jason
June 26th, 2006 at 3:04 pm“Win” the war on terror - what does that mean? Does anyone believe that terror will ever end as long as humans have the capacity for hurting others for their own desires? Then, when will the excecutive branch grant us back the civil liberties that are supposed to be ours inherently, inalienably? Further, its time to stop the analogy with WWII. I wasn’t alive then and if I was I still might very well have the same objections to the suspension of civil liberties. We didn’t declare war against “aerial bombing” after Pearl Harbor but against the Japanese who perpetrated it and we didn’t declare war formally against anyone in this mess. Our enemies in WWII engaged in “regime change” of their own, taking over other countries. We were right to protect Kawait against Saddam. We were wrong to take over a soverign country.
This whole “controversey” is undoubtedly designed by the Administration itself - all designed to give GW loyalists a way to attack dissent.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:05 pmThis whole issue is just another example of this administration feeding red meat to it wingnut base (e.g. see Jason Hendlers comment above). Attack the left for lack of patriotism in a time of WAR. How is it that the yellowest, weakest, crybaby element of our population thinks they are in charge of protecting us? If it isn’t the terrorists then it is homosexuals or who knows what… they’re scared of their shadows. Is there anything that these crybabies aren’t afraid of?
June 26th, 2006 at 3:06 pmWhen one person’s rights are violated, everybody’s rights are violated. This country is illegally detaining people without bringing them to court to face any charges. This is not simply a violation of their civil rights, but yours, too. By letting the government get away with this, you give them the right to do the same thing to you. Just because you think you’ve done nothing wrong, it doesn’t mean you have nothing to worry about. What if you look somebody who did something heinous? Do you think the government should be allowed to lock you up without ever giving you a day in court? Your president thinks he has that right.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:06 pm#87
You are forgetting one thing. These people are not American citizens. There are enemy combatants. Why would we ever give these detainees a trial is beyond me. Our enemy does not follow the Geneva convention. If Bush were locking up all Arabic Americans like Roosevelt did to the Japanese Americans during WWII, I would say you have an argument, but he’s not. Again, I say, you have the freedom in this country to leave if you don’t like it.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:13 pmRandy “If you dont like America, then leave”.
Never saw that one coming from a loyal, bed-wetting republican’t.
Really, I think you Randy, and the rest of the bedwetters motto should be “We don’t like America, so we’re going to change it by destroying the 2 branches of governence that we dont dominate - the judiciary and the media”
Reall, bro, YOU are the one who should leave. They got a nice country I’ve heard of where dissenters are jailed, military duty is not voluntary, the government has ultimate, one-party power and diplomacy is never truly an option. They call it North Korea. Go there. Now.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:13 pm#84 PLC
“We didn’t declare war against “aerial bombing†after Pearl Harbor but against the Japanese who perpetrated it and we didn’t declare war formally against anyone in this mess.”
Right on! No offense, but it is nice to hear good sense from a self-declared Christian who is not an apologist for the Orwellian Right.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:13 pmThis is just one more example of the hypocritical behavior of the Bush regime and it’s lapdogs in Congress. Like Nixon, it;s not about the impeachable offenses commited by Bush and his thugs, it’s about the press and their evil deeds in exposing them. One day soon Bush’s deep throat will emerge, disgusted and disgraced by these criminals and the whole mess will unravel before their eyes. If it happens before the election, the republicans embrace it in survival mode, if after, their all done for. The 2008 election will make the 1970’s look like a minor revolt.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:14 pmC’mom Randy and Jason. Answer posts 20, 65, and 82.
Still waiting.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:14 pmDid any of these guys study Civics, I mean in this country. Did they all sleep through “The US Constitution” lectures and fail the tests in high school, then get daddy to have them pass the course? I mean, there’s always room for oddball interpretations of any written document but come on, this is ridiculous.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:15 pmRandy,
Time to wise up bud. If anbody needs to leave this country, it’s those scared liitle guys with piss running down their legs ready to give up their civil liberties because of fear. If spying on citizens is ok in your little mind, why not random checkpoints, house searches and cavity searches. Or to paraphrase Tony “Is a person’s right to have his cavity unsearched worth someone else’s right to live?”
It’s a nonsensical scare tactic. Fear works best for those weaklings who don’t have control of their lives and are willing to let Daddy keep them safe.
Bush has made the world a much more dangerous place for all of us, especially our children. Think for yourself please.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:15 pm#70 Randy
June 26th, 2006 at 3:16 pmRights of life, liberty, and happiness denied to anyone (not just Americans, if you really read what our founding fathers wrote) is an assault on the rights of all Americans. Those who cannot support the rights of all others are not supportive of the American values (and maybe they should move to another country). I am tired of being accused of being anti-American because I disagree with an action of elected officials. A parent who loves his or her child will chastise and try to correct that child if he or she does something against the parent’s values. America is my child. Our leaders work for us, not the other way around.
No, Mr. Snow, it is your boss who seeks to undermine Americans’ ability to live. Open your eyes, republican moron.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:19 pmso…following this administration’s logic…cannot report on taxes, because that reveals secrets for the war on poverty, cannot talk about the multi-million dollar drug busts because that deflates the war on drugs…these guys are a joke, who will stand up to them and call them out, why did no reporter ask if snow if the americans right to live is just a number, or that if the administration starts fighting with the press it is just hugging (insert deregatory name here)…i hope, that america steers itself back on course the founding fathers plotted…right now its so far right, its just going in circles
June 26th, 2006 at 3:21 pmso…following this administration’s logic…cannot report on taxes, because that reveals secrets for the war on poverty, cannot talk about the multi-million dollar drug busts because that deflates the war on drugs…these guys are a joke, who will stand up to them and call them out, why did no reporter ask if snow if the americans right to live is just a number, or that if the administration starts fighting with the press it is just hugging (insert deregatory name here)…i hope, that america steers itself back on course the founding fathers plotted…right now its so far right, its just going in circles
June 26th, 2006 at 3:21 pmsorry for the double post (i thought that is impossible???)
June 26th, 2006 at 3:22 pm#95
Try telling that to the families of the 3000 Americans who perished on 9/11. IMHO, liberals are gutless and would never stand up this enemy. I’m glad that George Bush is our President and its obvious that the majority of Americans do as well given the results from the ‘04 election. See, this will be the defining issue of our time and until the democratic party wrestles its way free from the likes of Dean and the liberal left, they will never occupy the White House, which is ok by me.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:22 pmRandy,
The president declared these people “enemy combatants” (or his designee did) and that alone was enough to deny them a right to challenge that determination in court (according to the president). Whether or not they are enemy combatants or soldiers in a uniformed army, our signature on the Geneva Conventions means that we will give everyone picked up on a battlefield their day in court. (No amount of right-wing spin is going to change that fact.) They have a right to challenge that designation whether or not you think they should have that right. It would appear, Randy, that it is YOU who doesn’t like living in America.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:22 pmWell Randy you certainly landed in enemy territory here at ThinkProgress , mabey you should try ThinkRegress.org , you’ll get along good there .
June 26th, 2006 at 3:23 pmThe War on Terror is as much of a war as the War on Drugs. That is to say, it’s no War at all. Just a money/power grab.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:25 pmThese people are not American citizens. There are enemy combatants.
Well, now….isn’t that convenient? They aren’t American citizens, nor are they prisoners of war (the ‘war on terror’ notwithstanding). Designating them ‘enemy combatants’ makes them non-persons, stripping them of all rights and allowing our government to do whatever it pleases with them.
Why would we ever give these detainees a trial is beyond me.
As I’m sure it would be. Hint: we’re supposed to be be better than this.
Our enemy does not follow the Geneva convention.
That’s no excuse, and you know it.
If Bush were locking up all Arabic Americans like Roosevelt did to the Japanese Americans during WWII, I would say you have an argument, but he’s not.
Why should he bother locking them up? It’s far cheaper to institute blanket surveillance, and this way, he can keep tabs on everyone, rather than just Arabic Americans.
Again, I say, you have the freedom in this country to leave if you don’t like it.
And again, I say that I will not be driven from my country by a tin-plated aspiring dictator with delusions of grandeur. I’ll stay and fight, thanks.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:25 pmSo RAndy,
We are in Iraq because of the 9/11?
Real simple….You are a f**ing idiot.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pmOh RANDY… poor little terrified RANDY.
It’s actually those who oppose Bush who love America. We’re willing to risk the threat of terrorism before we’ll sacrifice our freedoms and liberites for the sake of security. You are not able to say the same.
Remember the cold war? When the threat of total nuclear annihilation was very real? We didn’t allow unwarranted eavesdropping and other Constitutional atrocities then, so why should we allow such things now then the threat of terror is vague, at best.
It’s also laughable that you want us to give specific examples of how Bush has violated our civil liberties, but you are also supportive of keeping these programs secret to the extent that those exposing them should be prosecuted for treason.
It’s actually YOU, the ones who like the idea a fascist dictator micromanaging most aspects of your lives in return for a promise of security that need to leave America for some other place. We real Americans are just fine fighting for the ideals that make this country great, and we don’t want you cowards here running her into the cround.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pm#90 Winston Smith
June 26th, 2006 at 3:26 pmAbsolutely no offense taken, in fact I’m honored. I chose the PLC monikor very purposefully. I am sick and tired of the neocons hijacking and distorting my faith, claiming the Bible as only theirs to interpret, and justifying their political “rendering” by reference to religion. I am sick and tired of being labeled “unpatriotic” because I vehemently disagree with this pathetic administration. About three or four years ago, I stopped being my church congregation’s “token”, quiet liberal and began forcefully voicing my progressive views - even in Bible Study classes. What really surprised me (although I guess it should not have) was how many other liberal/progressive members of the congregation there are and how they became willing to speak up then, too. I fear for religious freedom (and I include atheism as a “religion” broadly) if progressive Christians don’t speak up to balance the argument.
The NYT’s actions lately have been seditious an minimum, perhaps even treasonous. The creeps should be held up to the American people as objects of scorn, loathing and disdain.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:28 pmHey, Randy I’m a liberal and have 15 years in the military. So I guess your statement that “liberals are gutless and would never stand up to this enemy” is simple hatemongering. One thing I have learned in the military is you don’t go after the wrong target, or you aren’t fighting the enemy.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:28 pmExecutive overreach is a fact, and the NYT is merely reporting the fact. Executive overreach is part of the emerging fascist state in the US. Every once in a while, the NYT can imply that this trend is taking place. The bank records story illustrates this trend nicely. Wayne Madsen has been reporting for months that the numerous data thefts are part of a US government-managed effort to support the Total Information Awareness project once coordinated by one of our favorite felons, John Poindexter. Although operating under a different name, the project goal is to do exactly what the title implies, and all of us are subject to rampant invasions of privacy as a result.
Welcome to Bush’s America, folks. Welcome to Fascist America.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:29 pm#102
Thanks for pointing that out. Look, I don’t care if I liked or not, that is not important. What is more important is to be on the right side of this isssue and history will prove Bush correct here just as they did Reagan on the downfall of the Soviet Union and an end to the Cold War.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:30 pm#108 And should the people who gave the NYT (and LAT) that classified info also “be held up to the American people as objects of scorn, loathing and disdain”?
June 26th, 2006 at 3:31 pmNever mind that this information has been available since 2002. The NYT revealed nothing new.
Move along, folks. Just another rightwing distraction.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:32 pm.
listen… if you dont let the government secretly spy on you, YOU WILL F*CKING DIE. NOW GO AWAY, CONSUME AND BE SCARED.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:35 pmThey Are Called Hawalas…
Hawala. Look it up. Remember how important hawalas were in the aftermath of 9/11? Just another one of those tough, tedious, very difficult efforts in the war on terror largely forgotten by this Administration, except when it suits their short-term part…
June 26th, 2006 at 3:37 pmThis attack on the Media is yet another maneuver against democracy.
I strongly believe that far right wingers that are controlling this nation believe democracy is dangerous, and cannot be trusted. They believe the great American experiment of a government controlled by the people is dead; a failed experiment. It was merely a theory that to them is proven to not work correctly; when the people of a nation make demands of its leaders, right wingers feel like they’re being oppressed by an ignorant population; right wingers believe their judgement is all that is important, and their ability to govern, which they apparently inherited from their rich parents, should not be questioned.
This is why they claim to not pay attention to the polls; their conservative base sees this as resolute; the blind trust of the conservative public longs for the hierarchy of conservative government to make decisions for them without consulting the people.
This is also why the conservatives have no care for the constitution and can break it so easily; the constitution is a document of the people, and the people do not matter in conservative government, only the judgement of the conservative heirarchy.
Why else would they not pay attention to polls if it wasn’t because they don’t believe the public’s opinions mattered? To them, the only way the public matters is how it is manipulated through public relations stunts. The reaction to the policy of conservative government is irrelevent to the conservatives. Public opinion is something that is managed.
But to get back to my point, when the media reports on the illegal actions of this administration, it is offensive to conservatives, once again, because our opinion (and the founding fathers’ opinions) certainly don’t matter to these people. The democratic body shouldn’t know the truth because we’re sopposed to be believing the myths the conservative public relations organisations give to us, and when these reports by the media are published, the facade falls a little bit more, and those who are looking and thinking critically see how conservative government has hoodwinked the public and the constitution, and has eroded our experiment in democracy a little bit more.
-Dave M.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:39 pm#116 Good post, Dave M.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:43 pm#115:
Agreed. If the administration was actually serious about tracking the financial activity of terrorists, we’d be hearing more about this…but the simple fact is that this latest violation of our privacy, just like the warrantless wiretapping and collection of phone records, is not directed at the terrorists at all, but is targeting the American citizenry.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:44 pmWhy does Randy hate America so???
June 26th, 2006 at 3:45 pmGet a JOB randy. You’ve been bloviating here all morning. Most of us work for a living. I’m tired of supporting deadbeats like you!
June 26th, 2006 at 3:45 pmTHE UNDERLYING REASONS FOR WAR HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SIMPLE-SOMEBODY WANTS WHAT YOU HAVE OR DOESN’T LIKE WHAT YOU DO.UNLESS BOTH THESE REASONS ARE ELIMINATED (HIGHLY UNLIKELY, CONSIDERING HUMANS THRU HISTORY) THEN WE WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE TERRORISTS AND WARS.IF THESE WARS ARE INEVITABLE THAN WE SHOULD JUST GIVE UP ALL OUR RIGHTS NOW AND STOP BEING AFRAID, BECAUSE WE KNOW OUR PRESENT ADMINISTRATION CAN BE TRUSTED TO PROTECT US.I MEAN, WE’VE HAD 5 YEARS TO SEE HOW PROTECTED WE ARE AND HOW CAPABLE THIS ADMINISTRATION IS.RIGHT!
June 26th, 2006 at 3:45 pmRight to know versus right to live. Does that same arguement stand for the operatives who were working in Iran with Valerie Plame? I just want to find out how far the hypocricy goes.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:46 pm“What is more important is to be on the right side of this isssue and history will prove Bush correct here just as they did Reagan on the downfall of the Soviet Union and an end to the Cold War.”
ROFLMFAO! Yeah, the Soviet Union collapsed because of Reagan…. It had nothing to do with the fact that they were bankrupt and corrupt (sort of like the current state of our government).
Reagan was a p.o.s. just like Bush jr. He ignored AIDS, started a war on drugs that has only strengthened the drug dealers and suppliers of this country while weakening everyones civil liberties (must be a Republican thing, taking away civil liberties, that is), gave Contra terrorists weapons secretly, sold WMD’s to Sadaam (and many others) and slept through half of his 8 years in office. But I guess none of that is as horrifying as a blowjob, or as rolling up your sleeves and being passionate.
So yeah, youre right Randy, History will show us that Bush was just as much, or probably more of a shitty president than Ronald “I don’t know, mommy” Reagan.
Welcome to the reality based community, bubble-boy.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:48 pmWhen did congress declare war?
Can we be at war when the Commander in Chief says so?
If so, all the Commander in Chief need do is declare a War, suspend constitutional and statutory protections of civil rights and assume unlimited powers.
This is what Bush has done.
James, you support a Tyrant. You deserve to live under tyranny.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:48 pm#4 9 - “While our friends randy and mighty aphrodite are so hot and bothered by what the NYT did, I wonder why they aren’t foaming at the mouth to get the person who gave the NYT the information?” comment by Wayne A Schneider
******Dear Wayne - Hot and bothered?? Hardly. They might start printing the NYT rag on orange newsprint so we can correctly identify it as a “PUMPKIN PAPER”. The treachery of the NYT is exceeded ONLY by the traitor who would pass along such info for the assurance of publication. Of course, after a fair and balanced trial, they should receive the most harsh punishment the law allows.
“They feel that a president who makes up his own laws and feels that he is not bound by Acts of Congress should be allowed to conduct an illegal war any way he sees fit.”
June 26th, 2006 at 3:55 pm- more pyschic interpretations from Wayne
******Where did you go to law school Wayne??
Its not a war if we’re the only army on the battlefield.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:56 pm******Where did you go to law school Wayne??
Comment by mighty aphrodite — June 26, 2006 @ 3:55 pm
A far far better place than you I am sure!!!
June 26th, 2006 at 3:58 pmRandy, Dubya pulled strings to get out of Vietnam. How could Liberals be gutless cowards? I mean come on, check out this website http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
Could you tell me how Iraq and 9/11 are connected? Oh wait, you can’t
June 26th, 2006 at 3:58 pmHow about my right to my consitutional rights? It seems like the terrorists are winning when we abandon our civil rights for temporary safety. The war on terror is a farce.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:59 pm#87
Can you trust the Executive Branch not to abuse the power you argue they should be granted? I sure don’t. I see no reason to believe that they wouldn’t also try to dig up dirt on political opponents with these powers granted to them.
June 26th, 2006 at 3:59 pm“for the assurance of publication”?
Uh, that would be the UN. In fact, the .pdf is still up on their website.
Not very classified, is it?
June 26th, 2006 at 4:01 pm.
#88 -
So, you would have no problem if a foreign government detained you as an enemy combatant and held you without trial for the rest of your natural life.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:03 pmthis is all propaganda, 9/11 was an inside job
June 26th, 2006 at 4:05 pmWhy not just have one media outlet and that of course would be Fox news, and since Bush is the decider and only he knows in his heart what is right because God appointed him and history will prove him right why not just do away with elections. We should just turn all of our liberties over to Bush and if we do I just have two question Does that eliminate the possibilities of us ever being hit by a terrorist again? If we surrender all of our civil liberties to Bush will we be safe?
While we have been fighting this so called war on terror how many people have died in the war on drugs, the war on poverty and just everyday American violence?
There is no guarantee on safety, but Bush will guarantee fear.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:06 pmI just love reading the various neocons above like Jason M. Hendler, etc., who are stupid enough to try to persuade others that the NYT is treasonous. What unmitigated BS. The treason is all at Penn. Ave. And to imagine that ‘terra’ ists… other than those created by the government - don’t figure all this is going on is simply stupid. Oh, yeh, lets investigate the NYT…. there is a world for these idiots who desire to investigate… they are called fascists.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:08 pmDoes “Right to Live” also include the 2600 soldiers who died for a lie?
June 26th, 2006 at 4:08 pmComment by Randy — June 26, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
It takes far more courage to seek a path of peace than a path of war. In seeking peace, you put your own life on the line. In seeking war, you send other people’s children.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:09 pm#127- Jules - did you have to call friends for your “clever” retort - or did you come up with that ALL BY YOURSELF??? You and other Progs demonstrate DAILY a lack of understanding re: Constitutional rights, Constitutional responsibilities, Checks and Balances, Executive Power….The decaying corpse of 60’s leftist “thought” is a little bit like Weekend at Bernie’s - - it should remain buried as the stench is putrid. We’ll send flowers……
June 26th, 2006 at 4:12 pm[…] REALLY??? […]
June 26th, 2006 at 4:13 pmOh, and for neocons (or simply stupidos) like Randy. There is no point in arguing with folks like you. You are impervious to logic and reason. You care nothing for empirical data. That makes you a nonentity as far as I am concerned. And not worth any more time.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:14 pmWhen asked about possible deliberate attempts at creating a chilling effect on the media,Snow’s answer was clearly punctuated improperly.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:17 pmInstead of,”I don’t think so.”,it no doubt should have read,”I don’t think.So?”
i love the “time of war” bit. love it, because with terrorism, there is no end to the “time of war”. there is ALWAYS going to be some group with some beef that wants to hurt americans or westerners or trekkies or whatever. i’m willing to risk it, if it’s a choice between privacy or the blind leap of faith that THIS TIME the government’s is doing anyting useful to me with it’s time.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:18 pmoh, and isn’t it amusing that all of a sudden, republicans like the idea of being reliant on government. big, big government. so, so big.
Et tu, MA?
June 26th, 2006 at 4:19 pmThe Bush Regime is breaking the law, but they call New York Times criminals? Wow Dubya Dunce Decider really is creepy!
June 26th, 2006 at 4:19 pmMighty,
“The treachery of the NYT is exceeded ONLY by the traitor who would pass along such info for the assurance of publication. Of course, after a fair and balanced trial, they should receive the most harsh punishment the law allows.”
If the trial is “fair and balanced”, how do you know that there will be a conviction? Or have you already decided the outcome? And who says that trials have to be “balanced”? You’ve been listening to Fox News Channel too much. And I didn’t attend law school to learn what I wrote. I paid attention to civics lessons. Are you telling me that you support the Unitary Executive Theory?
June 26th, 2006 at 4:22 pmAnd another thing- stop it with this “time of war” nonsense. Until the military draft gets re-instituted you chickenhawk treason-exclaimers won’t have to put your asses where your mouths are so STFU abuot “time of war.”
June 26th, 2006 at 4:30 pmRandy and Jason are typical representation of republicans or conservative these days? No matter how much reasoning, facts, common sense, etc are put forth. They defend republicans only because they feel they are republicans without understanding actual cause and effect?
Calling liberals as a whole gutless. And when pointed out time and time again, individuals who personifies courage are always liberals means nothing to them. Liberals understands history and current state may lead to destruction of America(not just in liberty and way of life but country as a whole). Yet, republicans aren’t willing to even consider listening.
I don’t see us getting better anytime soon. Even if we do somehow take back government and media to more open form with accountability. These republican fear and hatred will linger. How can we fix this? How can we eliminate hatred and fear against labels put upon one group to another group? I know we can’t eliminate fear and hate themselves but we must eliminate self-imposed fear and hate against labels.
I hope this makes sense a little.
June 26th, 2006 at 4:30 pmIt’s quite frustrating these days.
Ah, yes, Mighty Aphrodite, defense lawyer, has given the standard for justice: a “fair and balanced trial” you know, the same standard for Fox News.
By the way, Mighty, you never did respond in an earlier thread to explain how the prisoners at Guantanamo are not entitled to Constitutional protections:
Comment by pjh — June 22, 2006 “
June 26th, 2006 at 4:33 pmHello, Wayne…Just want to correct you on a point you made in posting #101. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld that it was Congress who gave the president the authority to detain the unlawful combatants.
‘We conclude that detention of individuals falling into the limited category we are considering, for the duration of the particular conflict in which they were captured, is so fundamental and accepted an incident to war as to be an exercise of the “necessary and appropriate force” Congress has authorized the President to use.’
June 26th, 2006 at 4:35 pmAs long as decisions are to be made about my right to know or t