Hardball Guest Says NYT Editor Is Guilty of ‘Treason,’ Advocates ‘Prison For 20 Years’
Hardball Guest Says NYT Editor Is Guilty of ‘Treason,’ Advocates ‘Prison For 20 Years’
The White House has launched an assault on the New York Times for publishing a story about the administration’s secret program to monitor bank records. Yesterday, President Bush said the paper’s conduct was “disgraceful” and White House Press Secretary Tony Snow implied they were undermining Americans’ “right to live.”
The right-wing echo chamber is taking the argument a step further. Appearing on MSNBC’s Hardball, talk show host Melanie Morgan said that New York Times editor Bill Keller is guilty of treason and that “Keller and his associates” should be thrown “in prison for 20 years. Watch it:
The maximum penalty for treason under federal law is death.
Transcript:
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you Melanie, do you really mean treason? You mean put them in jail for life? I don’t know what treason carries as a sanction, but I assume the penalties are incredible severe, 20 years perhaps.
MORGAN: Yes.
MATTHEWS: You are saying to put Bill Keller and his associates in prison for 20 years?
MORGAN: Absolutely. I am absolutely advocating that. What has happened is shameful If he’s the one that is ultimately responsible for making this decision.
MATTHEWS: Well, it’s his call. What about the NSA? Would you do the same in the NSA case?
MORGAN: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely I would.
MATTHEWS: You’d put them in jail for 20 years for that.
MORGAN: Yes, I would. When you break the law, you break the law. And the press, the media in this country have to learn one thing. They have to operate under the same laws and the same rules and regulations that all of the rest of the American people do.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
This incident warrants an investigation to determine if sedition or treason has occurred.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:05 amWhy buy the dvd of “Reichtwingnutz Gone WILD!” when we can see it every night on TV for free?
June 27th, 2006 at 11:06 amYeah, and outting an undercover CIA agent by this administration in a time of war isn’t a crime…..LOL. This is fricking funny as hell. The talking heads are wooting it up today.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:08 amI brought this up before when the NSA story was released; If the White House and the Attorney General were aware of the damage that this story would inflict and they did nothing other than to verbally persuade the Times not to run the story but then went ahead and approved the release, cant the administration be held liable or found partially culpable relating to a basic dereliction of duty to uphold the law they seem to say is being broken. If a cop sees something that he construes to be illegal activity but then does nothing to prevent the law from being broken isn’t the cop responsible?
June 27th, 2006 at 11:09 amAny chages against the NYT would not stand but the fear of charges, and of blacklisting will serve to keep the corporate press toeing the party line
June 27th, 2006 at 11:09 amNeither of these commentatories knew that the maximum penalty for treason is death and they are qualified to offer some legal interpretation? And, again, why not include the editor of the WSJ, which also printed the same information on the same day? Why is the WH and its sycophants targeting only the NYT?
June 27th, 2006 at 11:10 am#1 - As soon as the investigation (and prosecutions) into the outing of Valerie Wilson is concluded, ya’ll go for it.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:10 amMelanie Morgan always reminded me of a high maintenance idiot.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:12 amI saw that interview and after her posturing and claiming the editors of the NY times should be prosecuted for treason, well guess what., Mr. Scarborogh disagreed with her. He felt this government is dangerous and needs to be reigned in. But, one think I think I do respect him for: he said he measures things by the smell test. If it would drive the republicans over the edge when Clinton was in office than it’s not okay now. and vice versa.
I expect we’ll be seeing Miss Melanie wearing scarves and turtlenecks for the rest of the season.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:13 amoops my bad. I got the programs mixed up. After I read it I kept thinking of Scarborogh and wished matthews had the guts to say something like he did.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:16 amfunny, very funny. a newspaper reporting facts about the administration breaking the law, again.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:16 amthat calls for very serious action, impeachment of a government, and their trial for treason
guess it depends on how you look at it.
It looks like she is wearing a turtleneck!
Oh, you mean the sweater.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:16 amNone of what the White House says on this issue will ever matter to the American people. As long as their civil liberties have been violated, they won’t stand for it. Granted there have been Americans that have willingly given up their civil liberties when the White House publicly asked them to, but I believe hardly any of those Americans would be alright knowing that more of their freedoms were taken away in secret.
Using this logic of tapping phone calls and going into financial records to stops the terrorists of being a fair way to stop terrorism just doesn’t fly with Americans. We’re all being pulled into this BS nation-wide criminal investigation. We’re ALL being spied on, regardless of our history - and if we’ve ever been a criminal, all because there may be terrorists among us.
Why does the administration need ALL financial records? Why can’t it not just look into who buys materials that are key in making explosives or bombs? And why can’t they just get a motherf*cking court order?
Let’s also not forget - no terrorists from overseas attacked us on 9/11. Those images of all those Saudis we saw - most of them have been reported still alive. There is no way they could have run the planes into those buildings - the whole thing was a government cover-up.
There is no outside threat.
The only threat is from people who have become angry at the government BECAUE of what the government has been doing since 9/11. So maybe there is a threat growing because of that. But if we just tossed out the criminals in the White House… I guarantee you the threat will go down. WAY down.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:16 amI’m sure most Americans who watch Melanie Morgan come away thinking that she needs to be heavily medicated.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:17 am#7, zookeeper,
No need to wait, I believe an investigation needs to start while the trail is still hot. I am sure our Justice Department can handle several investigations of media treason at the same time.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:19 amQuote of the Day:::
MORGAN: Yes, I would. When you break the law, you break the law. And the press, the media in this country have to learn one thing. They have to operate under the same laws and the same rules and regulations that all of the rest of the American people do.
or an elected official, or those representing an elected offical…
June 27th, 2006 at 11:21 amWhat has happened is shameful If he’s the one that is ultimately responsible for making this decision.
I am with you. GWB should be trialed for genocide.
And the press, the media in this country have to learn one thing. They have to operate under the same laws and the same rules and regulations that all of the rest of the American people do.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:23 amYou mean like sleepy sheeps. Good thing you are a noblody.
#15 - I’m sure you have a feeling for this administration, Jason. It will surely wait…
June 27th, 2006 at 11:23 amThe argument from the right wing on the NSA spying is that no one can say that their civil rights have personally been violated, so no one’s civil rights have been violated. Well, if the NYTimes article is “treason” they should have to prove that national security has been damaged by showing us an example of a terrorist moving money after the story was published who circumvented the SWIFT banks to avoid detection and was able to perpetuate a terrorist act. Otherwise, no one was harmed, so how is that treason? Such a lot of hot air blowing around on this one.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:23 amJason, very good. Anybody who reports on the illegal activities of our Dictator should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Only those true to the Party have a right to exist in our society.
For example, what if:
1) what if there was a secret executive order requiring all televisions/cell phones/electronic communications devices manufactured or sold in the U.S. to include a hidden camera and microphone which would provide a continuous feed to the NSA?
Revealing such a program would definitely hinder the Government’s intelligence gathering efforts. Should a newspaper be prosecuted for publishing information about this program?
2) What if there was a secret executive order requiring middle-of-the-night abductions of anyone of Middle Eastern descent. Each man, woman and child so rounded up would be tortured until they revealed their connections to terrorist cells and named their co-conspirators, then gassed and buried in unmarked mass graves?
Revealing the existence of such a program would hinder the Government’s intelligence gathering efforts in the War on Terror. Should a newspaper be prosecuted for publishing information about this program?
Bush’s signing statements indicate he has unlimited power as a War-Time President, in a War that he alone declared. You, Jason, support this regime. You, Jason, are part of the nighmare on Pennsylvania Avenue.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:25 amThe irony, the gall, the hypocrisy…OMG. But since it is now just part of history, and there are those just too damn lazy to learn about it…do any of you recall the BCCI scandal? These chickenhawk squatters in the white house have their signatures all over it…and the amazing part is, when the whole thing was being investigated, TERRORIST MONEY WAS BEING LAUNDERED through them. Read between the lines, folks. I don’t know about you, but this stuff really makes my blood boil. Revel in the fact that WE AT LEAST KNOW THE TRUTH. Let bush loyalists lie. All one can do really is laugh.
The BCCI Affair
BCCI CONSTITUTED INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL CRIME ON A MASSIVE AND GLOBAL SCALE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International
want more? Google has 140,000 entries.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:27 am#8- Zoo- You are So right! Isn’t it funny how the Plame case is ‘invisible’ to the scornful, condeming eyes of the Bush ‘Boosters’? BushCo knowingly lied about their involvement in the outing for years, until the truth caught up to them. But this is never spoken about, it would show how hypocritical they are, and would destroy their argument all together. Gads they are so tiresome.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:31 amThe right-wing echo chamber
I like it, it’s got a nice ring to it, as if I could hear it over and over again.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:32 amWomen over 50 exposing their necks. That should get you 20.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:32 amI bet she smokes. Gross.
#21 - Briseadh na Faire, great post. You’ve said everything anyone can say to Jason on this thread. Thanks!
June 27th, 2006 at 11:33 amBomb the New York Times building. If they aren’t going to print all of the news that is fit to print for the Bush Cabal, well then they can go the way of Baghdad and Saddam Hussein.
Bush and Cheney are our leaders, good and gracious God-fearing ‘Republicans,’ and wonderful warriors for God. We need them right where they are.
The only people committing treason are the liberal left wing tin foil madhatters.
‘Republicans’ love America, they stand beside her and guide her through the night with a light from above.
God bless America, land that the ‘Republicans’ love. They can tax the slaves so they can get rich, rich, I tell you, rich.
Warren Buffett is full of beans, the estate tax for the super rich must be repealed.
Send in 100,000 troops into North Korea now.
Shock and Awe the North Korean untermenschen today, the filthy swine.
Kill anybody that supports the Bill of Rights, who in the hell do they think they are?
June 27th, 2006 at 11:33 amThis is so much crap!! Like Osama is really sitting over in his cave in Afganistan reading the WALL STREET JOURNAL who ran the same story and telling his cohorts “OH no, the US is following the money! We had better be careful how we spread it around. What a surprise to us, the terrorists.”
They know more about our security capabilities, or lack thereof, then we do!!
June 27th, 2006 at 11:33 amWhat, really, has the republican party contributed to this country (or even the world) in the last 100 years? Please, someone, name one noble thing they have contributed for the benefit of mankind.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:34 amWhy have trials for traitors in the media when this Administration has made traitorous behavior a policy? Welcome to the “New GOP” where leaking is the way they conduct business–that and bigger and more intrusive government, uncontrolled spending, and deficits that will take years and fiscally responsible Democratic party leadership to solve. Remember the “good old days” when the scandals included Al Gore making campaign calls from the White House and cum stains on blue dresses? Now we have GOP traitors, leaking, and lies. Thanks for bringing honor and dignity back to government Mr. Bush. Before the trolls start in on the corruption of Congressman Jefferson, remember that the Dems had him booted from his committees and advocated for him to resign.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:34 am#24, each time it gets a little more distorted; each echo sounds different from the actual message - right up your alley
June 27th, 2006 at 11:35 amYou know what really bugs me about the road this leads down? Those who spout back, “Well, if you’re not doing anything wrong, then why do you care if they listen to your calls and track your purchases?”
That kind of thinking makes me wonder what our founding fathers would say. Why did they bother drawing up a Constitution? After all, John Q. Idiot is okay with all this until it affects him.
Regardless of confidentiality, if a program is wrong and is doing damage to the American people by directly violating the Constituition, the supreme law of our land, the press has a duty to report that. Stifling the media is the first step to despotism.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:35 amGads they are so tiresome.
Comment by Cyra Brown
I just wish anyone would call them on it — on the air! Apparently Al Sharpton made her look like a fool, so we have that.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:36 amI like it, it’s got a nice ring to it, as if I could hear it over and over again.
Comment by squegeeboo
Funny!…Funny!…funny…funny…
June 27th, 2006 at 11:37 amIn Morgan’s defense, Democrats agree we are at war and that Bush has these special surveillance powers.
By default, that makes the press (and the leaker) guilty of treason.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:37 amOops, there goes freedom of the press. How many more freedoms will the right wing give away before they feel safe from those big bad terrorists? Why are right wingers so fearful?
June 27th, 2006 at 11:38 amI still don’t see any other way to look at this other than trying to make the NYT seem as the heinous monster in this. Isn’t ironic, we invaded Iraq, under the meme that Saddam was a snake that would eventually strike, but when the Times made very clear it’s intentions to release the info the Administration sat back, grumbled about it, did nothing, and now says the law was broken. This is pure dereliction of duty by the President of the United states to keep safe and uphold the laws of the country,. There is no other logical explanation for their behavior.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:38 amzookeeper,
if you like, you may contact me at myspammailbox at hotmail dot com.
namaste.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:39 am#36
Well, this administration has built it’s entire existence, it’s rationale for all the powers it has seized, upon fear of the big bad unknown. At least 31% of Americans are still buying it, too!
June 27th, 2006 at 11:42 amOne has to wonder why the administration, so cavalier in the leaking of Valerie Plame’s identity, is howling right now…If you’d like a neighbour’s take on this, visit me at http://hackistan.blogspot.com
June 27th, 2006 at 11:42 amI’m pretty sure that other papers ran the story on the same day. Seems to be a selective outrage here.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:43 amGo to your local newsstand and try to find a copy of the recent Harper’s magazine. Kevin Baker’s article about the rightwing myth of being “Stabbed in the Back” is so true, so on, right now. You’ll all love it. This is a shining example. These things go way wayyyyy back people. We’re just catching the latest whiff of it.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:44 am#24- Squegeeboo- ‘Right wing echo chamber’, aka: that space between GWB’s ears.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:45 amFunny!…Funny!…funny…funny…
THANKS! Thanks! thanks! thanks than…
At least 31% of Americans are still buying it, too!
June 27th, 2006 at 11:46 amI believe its 38% now.
Is it the terrorists money they are after, or ours?
June 27th, 2006 at 11:46 amHalliburton-Cheney can never get enough. They want a record of who has what, so they can start arresting the people who will profit the Reich most, first. Just like in Germany in the 30s. Same crowd, same tactics.
It’s pretty hard to tell who controls the televsion ‘news’ broadcasts.
I tend to agree with:
#5. Any chages against the NYT would not stand but the fear of charges, and of blacklisting will serve to keep the corporate press toeing the party line
Comment by Jaded Prole — June 27, 2006 @ 11:09 am
June 27th, 2006 at 11:50 amall this to muddy up the real news. get this article out there…
Vice President Cheney, Chef in Chief
By Larry Johnson
BoomanTribune.com
Monday 26 June 2006
The evidence now on the public record is overwhelming and, if we could have a jury, Vice President Dick Cheney would be found guilty of cooking the intelligence and lying us into war. Three remarkable and compelling pieces of evidence have hit the streets within the last two weeks. Let’s start with today and work backwards. The Democratic Policy Committee held a hearing on the pre-war intelligence. Republican Congressman Walter Jones of North Carolina, who requested to attend today’s Senate Democratic Policy Committee hearing - asked (click to watch) Col. Lawrence Wilkerson (Ret’d) how neoconservatives in the Administration gained so much power, and why no one spoke out against their efforts to shape policy toward Iraq in the run-up to war. Col. Wilkerson responded, “The Vice President”.
more
and Larry Johnson is: Larry C. Johnson is CEO and co-founder of BERG Associates, LLC, an international business-consulting firm that helps corporations and governments manage threats posed by terrorism and money laundering. Mr. Johnson, who worked previously with the Central Intelligence Agency and US State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism (as a Deputy Director), is a recognized expert in the fields of terrorism, aviation security, crisis and risk management. Mr. Johnson has analyzed terrorist incidents for a variety of media including the Jim Lehrer News Hour, National Public Radio, ABC’s Nightline, NBC’s Today Show, the New York Times, CNN, Fox News, and the BBC. Mr. Johnson has authored several articles for publications, including Security Management Magazine, the New York Times, and The Los Angeles Times. He has lectured on terrorism and aviation security around the world.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:50 amThe King’s men (and women) are getting upset! Thank you, NYT, for participating in our modern “revolution” (which, oddly enough, only takes “telling the truth” to be active… What a sad time for our country).
June 27th, 2006 at 11:51 amThe right-wing echo chamber.
I like it, it’s got a nice ring to it, as if I could hear it over and over again.
Comment by squegeeboo
Allow me to accomodate you, squeeze:
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCT-WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCT-weapons of mass destruct-weapons of mass destruction……
Yeah, you can hear it over and over again—-until November 2008.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:51 amZoo: “Apparently Al Sharpton made her (Morgan) look like a fool, so we have that.” - - Morgan is only waxed fruit. She may try and look like the real thing, but could be fooling no one with half an eye or a working nose.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:51 amCyra, It seems that the media is scared of the consequenses of exposing all of the administrations bs, or all of the bullshit in washington, on both sides of the aisles, because what it will do to our morale. They have to turn a blind eye, and accept “responses” instead of “answers”. They are afraid of the consequences when the house of cards falls, so therefore, it keeps growing. It seems that everyday there is another addition (who knows how many decks of cards they have used, how many millions of square feet this house is), it just grows and grows and grows. This will all come to head someday (maybe when China is on our doorstep) but it cannot continue infinately. The media seems to be guilty of following Bush’s philosiphy of making a mess, and then declaring it being the responsibility of the next guy. It’s inevitable, the house will fall, and America will survive, just the sooner it happens the better!!!!
———–
As far as the talking heads arguing back and forth and Sharpotn standing up to this crackhead, good for him, but this happens everyday. Its just a screaming match between the two. Regardless of who is right, everyone just out shouts the other, so both sides are muted, yipee! Good for nothing but a head ache
———–
Now we have Bush & Cheney attacking the press for disrupting their war on terror, but then we see the terrorist they are going after is Saddam Huessein (bad, but no link to 9-11) and the Seas of David (bad, but no real threat to democracy or the US). Our war on terra is embarrassing! Regardless of Bush talking about using financial instiutions, or the WH tipping off the WSJ of the NYTimes article, they feel that the liberal press is to blame. Do they think the terrorists care about a source’s politcal leaning? The only ones who care is there base, which eats it up like Rush & Viagra.
(ahh now I feel better)
June 27th, 2006 at 11:52 amMorgan is only waxed fruit.
Comment by Badmoodman
Heh.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:53 amGO TO COUNTERTERRORISMBLOG.ORG.THERE IT IS STATED THAT THIS PROGRAM WAS KNOWN ABOUT IN THE U.N IN 2002.JUST ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION ATTEMPT TO KILL TO MESSENGER.MAYBE WE SHOULD PROSECUTE THE U.N.FOR TREASON!
June 27th, 2006 at 11:55 amGlenn Greenwald sums it up best: The Bush lynch mob against the nation’s free press. This is not treason - it’s an administration gone horribly wrong - which wants to destroy the very foundations this country was founded on to protect its radical Stalinist politics - um, in the name of a fraudulent, non-ending “war on terror”. Treason is Dick Cheney. Treason is Condi Rice. Treason is Donald Rumsfeld. All of whom are busy destroying the Constitution of this (formerly) great nation in the name of Big Oil. Lock ‘em all up and throw away the key. Disgusting criminals. Every single one of them.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:56 amnamaste.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
You may contact me at zookeeper4@moscow.com
June 27th, 2006 at 11:58 am#54 They need to be turned over to the world courts and tried if we are to retain any hope in this american experiment
June 27th, 2006 at 11:58 amNow if Hillary was president, and had a million different secret spying programs going on, you can bet the Right would be seeing it as their patriotic duty to expose them all in the media.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:02 pmThe terrorists must be laughing their asses off while our right wing takes away our freedoms one by one. Thanks, right wing for aiding and abetting the terrorists by stripping away the freedoms our soldiers fought and died for in WWII and other previous wars. Get your traitorous heads out of your assholes right wingnuts and stop helping the terrorists.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:07 pmMelanie Morgan is shrill.
Do any of the blowhards who are bloviating about SWIFT even know what it is?
:crickets:
June 27th, 2006 at 12:07 pmThis is real funny. On September 25, 2001 Bush issues an order to the U.S. Treasury
June 27th, 2006 at 12:09 pmgiving them full power to check all financial reacords of known terrorist organization. He stated in a PUBLIC briefing that he was doing this. This program is no secret. What is secret is the fact that now “King George” wants to look at our financial reacords. The ass should be run out of town but the republican lead congress won’t do it. Google ” Bush to freeze terrorist assets” and read for yourself. What a F*&^%$# joke this guy is
Yeah Jason, lets just let the government control all media. We don’t need to think for ourselves, we don’t need to know anything… just shut off our brains and be the good Party members they want us to be.
WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
…seriously now… who is this bitch, and why did they even give her airtime to say this ridiculous crap.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:10 pmzoo & bris,
You keep creating strawmen out of fanciful “what-if” situations, and won’t address the current situation. NYT can print as they choose, and the Justice Department can investigate them, if/when they choose - both living up to their constitutional freedoms and responsibilities.
Why do you fear an investigation?
June 27th, 2006 at 12:12 pmIf we define treason as betraying the constitution I know of a few people in Washington who fit the bill. Also they are violating their oaths of office by not defending the constitution.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:12 pm63, i agree. murtha, harry reid, kennedy, pelosi, feingold, levin - to name a few
June 27th, 2006 at 12:16 pmWhy do you fear an investigation?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
No fear involved, Jason. In the words of your great leader, “Bring it on.”
June 27th, 2006 at 12:20 pmJMH, you mean like the circus the Administration went thru during the Hamdi case. You know how it goes, the law was broken, the President was in his rights, UNTIL, it goes before the Supreme Court. Then it’s oh, never mind we’ll try another charge. If it’s illegal what the Times did and the Administration thinks so, go ahead file charges, and guess what it will have to be decided by the courts not just what his majesty says. Bring it on.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:22 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler — June 27, 2006
Your words, not mine. I do not fear an investigation. However, if the Administration were serious, charges would have already been filed and the individuals arrested and held without bail.
Why don’t you answer the hypo’s? Where do you draw the line?
June 27th, 2006 at 12:29 pmIsn’t it just precious how BushCo & Cheney didn’t have any issues with Judy Miller, of the NYT, spreading their lies about WMD & their “facts” supporting illegally invading Iraq? But when they are outed for their continued criminal acts, by the same publication, well, now it’s time to take a stand! You just can’t buy humor this good!
June 27th, 2006 at 12:32 pmWhy do you fear an investigation?
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 27, 2006 @ 12:12 pm
Why does Bush?
June 27th, 2006 at 12:34 pmLet’s see…treason…going AWOL during time of war…that’s treason…spying on US citizens without a warrant is always a crime… I’m thinking we should just skip the impeachment and go right to federal prosecution for Bush, Cheney and Melanie Morgan.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:37 pmHmm.
Someone may have already noted this point, but when Morgan says “When you break the law, you break the law. . . . They have to operate under the same laws and the same rules and regulations that all of the rest of the American people do” she seems to have ignored the obvious violations of law that this Administration has committed.
The Administration’s warrantless eavedropping program is a clear violation of existing law (FISA). Yet, Morgan doesn’t seem to be the least bit disturbed by this. What a joke.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:37 pm65, 66, 67,
Great, so let the process procede, and it will resolve itself eventually …
I don’t answer those ridiculous hypotheticals, because they are fanciful strawmen, and not real circumstances. Stick with today’s events, not the events you wish to fight.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:37 pmI think it is premature to start saying that people at The Times are “guilty” of anything. I mean, look at what happened during the Plame imbroglio. The media and the liberal community worked itself up into a lather, and before any type of investigation was launched, they were crying that people in the administration were “guilty of treason.” And now we know that such statements were absurd….There was not even a violation of the IIPA, let alone treason. In fact, it turned out that Plame was even a covert agent as defined by the IIPA at all. The whole business was a colossal waste of time and money. Until we know more, it is irresponsible now for those on the right to make the same type of unsupported charges that were made and eventually discredited in the Plame case.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:39 pmAmazing how a few years can change a country.. torture is ok, war is good, media are tratiors, up is down, black is white..
June 27th, 2006 at 12:40 pmThe New York Times nor any other newspaper or individual not under oath and with the proper clearance is guilty of disclosing classified information. The very act of receiving the information from a source responsible for retaining the classification declassifies the information. The only party culpable for violating the classification is the person who leaked the information. And the fact that the security classification was assigned to an illegal act per se is in violation of the law. Bush got caught again with his drawers around his ankles and Rove standing behind him grinning. The SODDI defense doesn’t work unless the other dude confesses his guilt. Impeach the useless bastard today!
Click on Clyde to Bash Bush.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:41 pm“. . . up is down, black is white . . .”
Ain’t that the truth. Apparently, reporting on the government’s likely illegal activity is treason now.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:44 pmI don’t answer those ridiculous hypotheticals, because they are fanciful strawmen, and not real circumstances. Stick with today’s events, not the events you wish to fight.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Ah, I see how it is…always best to take one’s own advice.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:45 pmits even more precious how the media was howling for the plame leaker to named. praying for a Bush admin. person to go down the tubes. this time they do not seem to care about the leaker. maybe a lib is in the wood pile, and in need of media protection. which he will get.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:45 pm#72 Jason
June 27th, 2006 at 12:46 pmWhat hypotheticals? Are “fanciful strawmen” different (better or worse?) than Bush and Company’s army of strawmen?
JMH, there was nothing hypothetical about the Hamdi case my friend. I don’t get the logic or lack there of the Administration’s preemptive actions in initiating programs so critical, that have to be implemented to gaurd us from terror,but when it comes to premtively upholding the rule of Law they say is so squarely and legally supported behind their actions, they don’t want to prove it. Dericliction of duty pal, plain and simple.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:49 pmShe nearly caused me to lose my supper. What an onboxious person.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:54 pmActually the news story was a rehash of old news previously reported by many papers, but not followed up (what else is new?). This smells to me of another attempt by the W.H. to smear the media as the “enemy.”
The media, having been played for fools, and used as tools for 5 years, are, on occasion, running stories unflattering to the White House, and the WH is not happy. It’s their “what have you done for me lately?” attitude. I expect many more expressions of outrage by the WH and their toadies in the next few months. Smear, defame, accuse, and scream bloody murder that somebody done them wrong!
Hummmph. She’s obviously going thru menopause. That also explains the hot flashes.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but for many women like her, they turn mean, nasty, sharp-tongued, and very conservative. Like Anne Coulter and drag-queen Rush Limbaugh.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:57 pm#80, fly-man,
Any and all complaints about this administrations actions can be put before the Supreme Court for review. Why gripe when cases can be filed in court to challenge these actions?
June 27th, 2006 at 12:57 pmWHO is GUILTY AS HELL OF TREASON IS BUSH,CHENEY, RUMMIE AND CONDI AND REST IN OUR CROOKED GOV’T WHO ARE DOING ILLEGAL THINGS AND N.Y.TIMES AND WASHINGTON POST ARE BEING TRUE PATRIOTS AND REPORTING THEIR ILLEGAL CRIMES! Not only that but now Dr. Steven Jones has PROOF, WTC TOWERS WERE DETONATED! And Bush’s brother, Marvin, worked for security firm and also his cousin was CEO of same firm! Who made it possible for “thermate” to be set in buildings! PROVING 9-11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!
June 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pm#83 Jason
June 27th, 2006 at 1:03 pmThat is so funny and painfully obvious that I can’t even respond
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 27, 2006
YES! It is about time someone who apparently supports this Administration is willing to support a WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL!
Whether this Administration has committed International War Crimes is an issue that is ripe for an investigation TODAY!
As you said, “let the process procede, and it will resolve itself eventually … “
June 27th, 2006 at 1:04 pmUntil we know more, it is irresponsible now for those on the right to make the same type of unsupported charges that were made and eventually discredited in the Plame case.
Comment by Exley — June 27, 2006 @ 12:39 pm
Like Whitewater never happened. Hilarious.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:04 pmsue, give us your address and we will call you an ambulance
June 27th, 2006 at 1:05 pmhi ho it’s of to jail they go
the NY Times must go
the liberal lime
should do much time
hi ho hi ho
I relish with great glee seing the scumbags at the NY times doing a perp walk after being charged with exactly what they are: slimy traitorous liberal bottomsucking scum.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:06 pmThe NYTimes are on the side of the terrorists and are more worried about the rights of some rag head bomber than our boys in combat.
too bad some raghead did not fly a plane into the NY Times building, they would have done America a great service… and they could have hit the Boston Globe too. scumbag liberal traitors.
hi ho it’s of to jail they go
the NY Times must go
the liberal lime
should do much time
hi ho hi ho
Trolls - and now dwarves!
June 27th, 2006 at 1:09 pmthe nyt is self-destructing
June 27th, 2006 at 1:09 pmyou hate dwarves too? wow. you gotta really be full of hate to hate everything
June 27th, 2006 at 1:11 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler — June 27, 2006
While the first hypo was taken from a work of fiction, the second was from history. It wasn’t so rediculous to the victims of the purges of Nazi Germany or Communist Russia.
And this Administration has already abducted people and shipped them in the middle of the night to foreign countries who are known to practice torture so that those individuals can be “interrogated.” Real circumstances. Not so fanciful to them.
Why do you fear publicly announcing where you stand on these issues?
June 27th, 2006 at 1:12 pmthe nyt is self-destructing
Comment by brotherman
So is Fox; have you seen their latest ratings plunge?
June 27th, 2006 at 1:12 pm“Melanie answer the question, do you want the government to tell the NYT what to print?”
“Melanie your not answering the question.”
Watch Bernie Ward on Crooks and Liars.com smack down the conservative from Texas about this issue.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:15 pm#89 Moonbat patrol
June 27th, 2006 at 1:20 pmSo, you are all for the violent deaths of fellow Americans that you don’t agree with? I guess old Patrick Henry was misquoted - he actually said: “Give me the liberty to act in any damn way I please and insist that you act like me, or give you death”. How in world is this attitude not equivalent to that of our terrorist enemies? I despise your politics and your arrogance. If I actually knew you, I might even hate you personally. But I would NEVER wish harm on you. May God have mercy on you.
JMH, no sir, that is exactly the problem, not all the cases can be put before the Supreme court, the difference in this one is, the actions of the government are out in the open before charges can be filed and resolved.It’s not going to fall into the category of we can’t tell you because of National Security so just take our word along with a gag order. I think is exactly what the NY Times had in mind, to call the Administration’s hand and say ok if it’s illegal, here are the facts so go ahead prove it.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:24 pmAll you trolls do realize that Bush openly discussed monitoring back records, as post #60 correctly pointed out?
Just check out the White House’s Web site.
Of course, we all figured they’d do it within the law (you know, with things like judicial oversight, warrants, etc.). But as we’ve seen time and time and time again, the law really doesn’t matter a whole lot to this administration … well, until they decide to use it to silence their critics. Then it’s all good.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:25 pmI just don’t get the troll’s failure to see fallacy in their argument that just the Times is the bad guy here. Look if you have a snake and he’s going to bite you and you have a chance to kill him, right in front of you, and you let him go and then he goes out and bites the people you’re supposed to be protecting, from the venom the snake delivers, how can it be the snake’s fault?
June 27th, 2006 at 1:29 pmPLC,
peace and namaste. I understand, it is difficult not to get angry with certain posters here.
You are a credit to your faith. And even Christ found it necessary and desirable to get angry and turn over the tables of the money-changers.
I too, would not wish harm on them, save the harm they inflict on themselves. The consequences of their hatred will reflect back on them manyfold.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:29 pmWhere was the opposing view point? Why did Matthews not have someone from the left to refute what Morgan and King said? If Dan Abrams was to start initiating changes at last place MSNBC, he should start with hiring someone who is not timid about proclaiming that he or she just happens to favor liberal views.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:29 pm#64 you must not read the news.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:35 pmmathews is from the left
June 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmHow is it “treason” to publish information that was already publicly available? The White House itself has discussed the issue previously.
Besides, anyone who thought that Al Qaeda was blissfully transferring money from place to place without any idea that their actions could be tracked and monitored is a complete idiot.
What is happening here with the NYT is payback for its perceived “liberal” bias. Conservatives work themselves into a frenzy denigrating the NYT every chance they get. Having actually read the NYT from time to time I am astounded at how anyone can think that it is “liberal”. Sure, some commentators may be liberals, but the editorial board certainly is pretty conservative.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:36 pmnyt detailed how the process is done. enabling the bad guys to circumvent. thats what the hoopla is all about
June 27th, 2006 at 1:44 pmcaption : that french tickler is COLD.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:54 pmif we’re going to start charging people with treason, let’s start at the top with Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rice, and work our way through the senate and house. Just a few bad apples.
June 27th, 2006 at 1:55 pmaaarrrrrgh!!
it’s treason, matey!!
that’s what it be!!!
keelhaul the scurvy bilge rats and use their carcasses to warn those who might follow in their steps!!!
Holy Tap-Dancing Christ.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:26 pmwho put the Groovy Ghoulies in charge, man?
why in the WORLD would anybody book Crapola like that?
to make us mind our pees and cues, mateys!!!
to mind our pees and cues!!!
#108 - That is beyond funny, Dread Pirate Poodle Head.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:35 pm[moderated by admin.]
June 27th, 2006 at 2:38 pmWe’re traitors too! According to most family members supposedly related to one of us.
Haven’t spoken with them since Spring of 2003. Got tired of the name calling, denial, bullying, contempt & closed minds, of those who drink the Kool Aid.
Thanks to the NYT for their courage here. All king george has left, is to go after the messenger, because somewhere in the dark recesses of his mind he is aware that he is wrong, but doesn’t have anyplace to hide, once the truth comes out. He doesn’t have enough brain to work out different (better) solutions to the mess he has created.
With Congress - hopefully going to get some new faces & ethics, he is now cornered for the next 6 months. Like any beast in a corner, he & his, are going to become more shrill, more devoted, more determined to shove through their agenda in the time left.
Someone has to call this administration to account. The bank robber will continue his spree throughout the territory, until someone stops him. He’s big on punishment for everyone but himself.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:40 pm*******************
Seen on a Michigan car this past weekend:
“You can’t have my rights - I’m still using them!”
Indeed!
HOW DARE Repubs and conservatives be UPSET and OUTRAGED at the NYT, LAT and WSJ!!!! You remember their names on your ballots, don’t you? Of course the traitor PO$ who leaked the info to these reporters or reporter should be given the Ethel and Julius electric shock therapy. (The results have been miraculous in the treatment of traitorous leakers.) But you have to love the arrogance of Bill Keller and Prince Pinchy - they HATE the American people and George Bush SO much they will do anything and everything to hurt this country and administration. Remember: THEY know what’s best.
’til later -
****Disclaimer: the opinion above was not based on any legal theory or statute. It was the author’s OPINION and does not reflect the opinion of management.***
June 27th, 2006 at 2:41 pmObviously…..
Maybe, just maybe, stopping financial transactions of terrorists is a good thing
Comment by Right
Maybe, just maybe, not supporting them at all. Go read some American history, a-hole.
How about thinking about not being killed by Islamists who want your deaths?
June 27th, 2006 at 2:42 pmI know a bunch of them. Never wanted to kill me, even when discussing about religion. Go out there and meet some Islamists, that will change your mind.
i need to get this straight.. before… you all wanted Libby’s head for “outing” a CIA agent… who wasn’t all that secret at parties in the first place nor was it a danger to national security… yet the NYT latest leaks of info is ok. Am I to assume it is ok so long as it it negative on the President?
It the same time the gripe was Bush didn’t do enough or connect the dots in 8 months vs. 8 years of President Clinton… He uses recomendations by the 9/11 commission as well as legislation already passed by Clinton to follow the money and telecommunications to save lives… but it is ok for the IRS and Equifax and telephone solicitors everyday….
June 27th, 2006 at 2:42 pmThe NYT owes us, matey. They blew the horn for war based on their own maven’s lies.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:43 pmThey owe the American people the truth and that’s what this is, Truth. So… if the Bushies want to sue ‘em, let ‘em. The courts understand freedom of the press, even if the righties do not. Freedom of the press is what lets Coulter and Malkin spread their filth all over the airwaves and print. Tough titties.
We haven’t seen the end of the disclosures, mark my words. This is just the tip of the iceberg, what they could dream up in the first few months. They’ve had years to embroider on their initial concepts and my bet is there will be much worse discovered and disclosed. In the end, the people to be charged with treason may well be the people in the oval office right now.
[moderated by admin.]
June 27th, 2006 at 2:43 pm#116 - Jules, you forgot the “three snaps in a Z formation.” Girl…
June 27th, 2006 at 2:46 pmJuan - you’re obviously a moron. I know we gave money to the terrorists - IN THE 1980s! But now it’s 2006. We haven’t given them a dime in 20 years. Gee, wonder where they get cash? Maybe we can stop them from getting money, and then maybe they can’t fund terrorist operationts.
You know western Muslims - not the same thing as hanging out with Zarqawi. Try not generalizing all Muslims, idiot.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:47 pm#21 - “Jason, very good. Anybody who reports on the illegal activities of our Dictator should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.”- Legal nugget from Braid Fair
******The “illegal activities”??? Citation, please!
P.S. the “Dictator” won’t be “prosecuted” on your bia$$ed opinion. You better hope perspective employers don’t read this blog - you’ll be one of those ambulance chasers with your face plastered on the back of a city bus.
’til much later….
June 27th, 2006 at 2:48 pm#116 - Jules, you forgot the “three snaps in a Z formation.†Girl…
Comment by Zookeeper — June 27, 2006 @ 2:46 pm
Yeah! What she said!! :)
June 27th, 2006 at 2:48 pmyou’ll be one of those ambulance chasers with your face plastered on the back of a city bus.
’til much later….
Comment by mighty aphrodite — June 27, 2006 @ 2:48
Right next to yours…”til later”
June 27th, 2006 at 2:51 pmAnd why didn’t Clinton kill Bin Laden when he had the chance? History is OVER people. You can’t keep living in the past. You need to deal with the issues now. Stop fighting over what happened years ago. This program was a vital key to preventing terrorist from obtaining funding. Nope, you libs are still busy trying to “fight the good fight” without one frigging plan of your own. How are you going to stabilize Iraq? How are you going to prevent terrorist attacks on the US? Give me one good goddam answer to those two questions. “Removing Bush” isn’t a good answer because it doesn’t address the problems of Iraq destabilization and unprovoked terrorist attacks on the US.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:51 pmWhy don’t you keep feeding the troll while you’re at it?
June 27th, 2006 at 2:53 pmJust subscribed to the NYT home delivery. Thank you true PATRIOTS! Support !
June 27th, 2006 at 2:55 pmGee, wonder where they get cash?
Comment by Right — June 27, 2006 @ 2:47 pm
Some of the money comes from saudi Arabia, our money spent on oil is transfered to islamic extremist groups. Also the drug trade, specifically heroin out of afghanistan. I heard that there is some concern that illegal DVD’s are being sold in the US that then supply money to Al Qeada.
We are funding some of the terrorism, by buying foreign oil.
June 27th, 2006 at 2:56 pmOK Right - please explain Bush’s plan to me. Repugs are in charge right? What are they doing to help the US? “Stay the course” is NOT a plan. WTF does that mean anyway? Keep doing what we have been, getting our asses handed to us, spending billions of dollars, and, of yes, our oil buddies reaping the benefits!!!
June 27th, 2006 at 2:56 pmAnd Robert Novak?
June 27th, 2006 at 2:56 pmI’ll give you a plan - increase funding to the fledgling Iraqi government, step up security training for Iraqis, provide monetary benefits to those who join Iraqi guard units, hand over security of specific areas to Iraqis to govern, begin a troop withdrawal by Christmas without a specific end date of removing all troops being published in the US, help the Iraqi people create a stable government.
Help the UN seek diplomatic resolution to Iran nuclear power, but don’t let the Iranians develop nuclear warheads. Continue to monitor terrorist activities and pre-empt attacks like the one planned for Chicago. Tap all monies currently being traded by terrorists and use them to arrest and prosecute them. Take the funds from the terrorists and redistribute them to struggling citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now, what’s your plan besides “Impeach Bush” and “Bring Our Troops Home”? Neither of those are going to solve the Iraq problem, nor are they going to prevent terror attacks in the US.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:03 pmyou righteys REALLY want the Gummint to tell the Press what they can say!!
what if Clinton had been able to do that?
How many times has Delta White House tried to pull this crap?
you gonna fall for it each and every time???
when it turns out you’re being played AGAIN, what you gonna do?
June 27th, 2006 at 3:04 pmREFLECT?
REGROUP?
NOOOOOO!!!
you’re gonna be wanting to drape your noose around somebody’s neck for SOMETHING ELSE!!!!
Lather, Rinse, Repeat.
125 Krazny - you just let proof of your ignorance come out. How much oil exactly, do we import from the Middle East? Just a question. I’ll let you do the research and come back.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:06 pmThey’re Just More Important Than You Are
Are any secrets more important than the New York Times’s sources?
By Andrew C. McCarthy
The echo trails off the last defiantly gleeful chorus of “We Are the World.†Reality stubbornly dawns on you: There really are bad people out there. They are the world, too. And they want to kill you.
They refuse to be reasoned with. They can afford to. They’re not a country. They don’t have to worry about defending a territory. They are seeped into places that can’t be bombed into submission. They are the world, after all. They are the children — or at least hidden among them. No “Mutually Assured Destruction†here.
No, you have only one defense: Intelligence. Superpower power is useless. What are you gonna do? Hit them where they live? Bomb Hamburg? Bomb London? Bomb New York?
Not an option. Your nukes, stealth fighters, carpet bombers … they’re largely irrelevant. This is not about killing an advancing brigade. It’s about killing cells. A handful of operatives here and there, nestled among millions of innocents.
The real challenge is not how to kill them — or at least capture them. It’s how to find them. How to identify them from among the hordes they dress like, sound like, and even act like … right up until the moment they board a plane. Or wave cheerily alongside a naval destroyer. Or park their nondescript van in the catacombs of a mighty skyscraper.
The only way to prevent terrorist attacks is to gather intelligence. It is to collect the information that reveals who the jihadists are, who is backing them with money and resources, and where they are likely to strike. There is nothing else.
How do you get such intelligence? Your options are few. The terrorists you capture, you squeeze until they break. Since your laws and protocols forbid physical coercion, you must employ psychological pressure — relentless detachment and loneliness that may render a battle-hard, hate-obsessed detainee hopeless enough and dependent enough on his interrogators to tell you the deepest, deadliest secrets. So you move your captives to places where they will be isolated, and forlorn, and … eventually — maybe after a very long time — moved to tell you what they know about their fellow savages.
Otherwise, you use your technological wizardry to penetrate their communications. You use your mastery of the global web that is modern finance to find the money and follow it — until you can pierce the veiled charities and masked philanthropists behind the terror dollars. Until you strangle the supply lines that convert hatred into action.
All the while, you never underestimate your enemies. You know they are clever, resourceful, and adaptive. You know they study you, just as you are studying them. More effectively, in fact. After all, when you find their vulnerabilities, there is still due process. When they find yours, there is murder. Mass murder.
Life or death. Which one it will be turns solely on intelligence and secrecy. Can you find out how they next intend to kill you, can you stop them, and can you prevent them from knowing how you know … so you can stop them again?
Simple as that. Modernity has changed many things, but it hasn’t changed that. In command of the first American military forces, and facing a deadly enemy, George Washington himself observed that the “necessity of procuring good intelligence is apparent and need not be further urged…. [U]pon Secrecy, Success depends in Most Enterprises … and for want of it, they are generally defeated.â€
What on earth would George Washington have made of Bill Keller, executive editor of the New York Times, and his comrades in today’s American media?
What would he have made of transparently politicized free-speech zealots who inform for the enemy and have the nerve to call it “patriotism.â€
Who say, “If you try to isolate barbarians to make them hand up the other barbarians, we will expose it.â€
“If you try to intercept enemy communications — as victorious militaries have done in every war ever fought — we will tell all the world, including the enemy, exactly what you’re up to.â€
“If you track the enemy’s finances, we will blow you out of the water. We’ll disclose just what you’re doing and just how you’re doing it. Even if it’s saving innocent lives.â€
And why this last? Remember five years ago, back when they figured “you’re not doing enough†was the best way to bash the Bush administration? Remember the Times and its ilk — disdainful of aggressive military responses — tut-tutting about how the disruption of money flows was the key to thwarting international terrorists. So why compromise that?
Is there some illegality going on in the government’s Terrorist Finance Tracking Program (exposed by the Times and other news outlets Friday)? No, no laws have been broken. Is there some abuse of power? No, there seem to have been extraordinary steps taken to inform relevant officials and win international cooperation. Why then? Why take action that can only aid and comfort the enemy in wartime?
Because, Keller haughtily pronounced, American methods of monitoring enemy money transfers are “a matter of public interest.â€
Really? The Times prattles on about what it claims is a dearth of checks and balances, but what are the checks and balances on Bill Keller? Can it be that our security hinges on whether the editor of an antiwar, for-profit journal thinks some defense measure might be interesting?
Well, here’s something truly interesting: There are people in the U.S. intelligence community who are revealing the nation’s most precious secrets.
The media aspire to be the public’s watchdog? Ever on the prowl to promote good government? Okay, here we have public officials endangering American lives. Public officials whose violation of a solemn oath to protect national defense information is both a profound offense against honor and a serious crime.
What about the public interest in that? What about the public interest in rooting out those who betray their country in wartime?
Not on your life.
National-security secrets? All fair game. If it’s about how we detain, or infiltrate, or defang the monsters pledged to kill us, the New York Times reserves the right to derail us any time it finds such matters … interesting.
But the media’s own sources? That, and that alone, is sacrosanct. Worth protecting above all else.
National-security secrets, after all, are merely the public treasure that keeps us alive. Press informants are the private preserve of the media.
And they’re just more important than you are.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:08 pmRight - you just crack me up
1. Increase funding to Iraq - and where will the money come from? Is Bush going to tell all his buddies he will have to increase their taxes - fat chance! Another spender from the republlican party.
2. “Timetable” to bring our troops home - why you cut and run coward!!! BTW isn’t this what the Dems wanted? Yeah, I thought so.
3. We cannot “tell” another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do. Diplomacy MAY work with Iran…but Bush does not even know how to pronounce that particular word. Invade? Yeah, that worked well in Iraq didn’t it?
You need to stop the republican talking points and get your head out of your ass!!!
June 27th, 2006 at 3:13 pmRight–
You actually bring up some good points in #128, but simply throwing money at people won’t work 100%.
And please tell us how, exactly, subverting the Consitutional mandate of checks and balances helps? Seriously … what is about judicial oversight that you don’t comprehend?
June 27th, 2006 at 3:13 pm#128 Right
June 27th, 2006 at 3:15 pmActually, I could agree with much of your plan, as a progressive, and I’d bet that many other progressives would also agree. I would add that we need Congressional and court oversight of procedures to insure that court orders are gotten and civil rights are not violated in “monitoring” activities. However, has Bush and Co. articulated any of your plan?
About 20% of our the oil consumed by the us is produced in the middle east.
please note the following link contains information for crude oil only, and does not count other petroluem products.
This shows the total number of barrels of oil imported into the US per country.
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ dnav/ pet/ pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_epc0_im0_mbbl_m.htm
In april 06 we imported 47,467 barrels of oil from Saudi Arabia alone. Priced at $70/barrel that equals $3,322,690. how many AK-47’s would even a tenth of this buy? Keep in mind this is for one month. Keep in mind that many of the foreign insurgent fighters in Iraq are Saudi’s, and that the majority of 9/11 hijackers were saudi’s as well.
The only one showing ignorance here is you.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:21 pmActually, some of that plan is in the works.
Checks and Balances are great - but you can’t tell me that the bureaucratic bullshit we have in Congress with the politicizing of the war from both sides is efficient and timely. I believe the covert monitoring of intelligence is perfectly within the rights of the executive branch, with a backfill allowance to the Senate Intelligence and House Intelligence committees. But we simply cannot wait for the morons in Congress to debate endlessly (and publicly I might add) about programs that need to be keep quick and quiet.
As for money to Iraq - we spend way too much money on pork barrels from both sides of the aisle. Eliminating pork barrel spending is one place to find money. Removing the tax cut and keeping the estate taxes are two other sources of money.
As for a timetable - I don’t advocate a public timetable based on time. I want a strategic goal that is kept away from the public that delineates what is needed before we can begin to leave.
John Kerry didn’t want a timetable. He literally wanted to leave Iraq in a state of disarray. The other Democratic bill wasn’t bad, but it needed to be cross-seat supported. Some Dem and some GOP need to get the sticks out of their asses and co-write a bill - a logical bill that is kept away from the press. The press would print the timeline and the terrorists would go into hiding until the timeline was executed.
Published timetables are bad - goal-oriented strategic plans are good.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:24 pm“BushCO” articulated these plans to those oversite commities… hence why they kept their mouths shut as his progrmas were implemented… problem was when they suddenly have memory loss of ever seeing the program and signing off on it… and use political maneuvers to keep their base.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:24 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — June 27, 2006
I’m more inclined to work for an organization like Human Rights Watch, or the ACLU, than to be a personal injury attorney.
Comment by mighty aphrodite — June 27, 2006
One can only hope…
June 27th, 2006 at 3:31 pmOkay Krazny - 23% of our oil comes from the Persian Gulf. Your use of 3 million dollars to Saudi Arabia is probably pretty good. Now, do you honestly think 3 million dollars goes to Al Qaeda?
Now - you mentioned the 9/11 hijackers being Saudis - that means you can read. How many of them were wealthy Saudi princes who got money from the oil market, and how many were radical Islamists with a death pact signed to foment jihad against the US and all Zionist nations at any cost? Okay. Since we know that the Saudi princes didn’t fly the planes, we can assume all 3 million doesn’t go to terrorists. Then we look at the Saudi estates and how they live. We can be assured that at least half of their lifestyle money is eaten up. Still, even 1.5 million is a lot. Now, what are the net finances of Al Qaeda right now? If they actually got 1.5 million per month, do you think they would be begging for money?
Lastly - even if they got 1.5 million a month - the program the NYTimes just outed ENSURES that they continue to get that money now, instead of using that info to track the terrorist backers and the terrorists. Nope, now they know we track their money.
So, once again I ask - is it a good thing that we TOLD the terrorists exactly how, when and where we were tracking their money? Would you tell the mob that you were tracing their money and how their bank accounts were tapped to gather evidence for racketeering charges? I hope not. But then, you argue for allowing the terrorists to know how we were stopping them from illegally gaining funds to continue war against the West.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:34 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — June 27, 2006 @ 2:48 pm
sigh, I’ve already cited the UN Charter before. And the International Convention on Human Rights. You can also look up the international conventions on Torture, too, while you’re at it.
But you don’t really need to look up the convention on torture, as that has risen to jus cogens.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:34 pmI have not read the NY times article, so I am unsure if they truly told the terrorists exactly how we track the money. Any one have a link to the article in question? But you are also trying to change the subject. you claimed I didn’t have a clue, because I stated that our money via Saudi Arabia, is helping to fund a war against us. I shot back with the statistics you asked for.
What you are overlooking, and the flawed part of your argument is your average Saudi citizen lives on a dole list, on top of any work etc. The oil money is sent out to average families who do support Bin Laden, who was a wealthy saudi. These families in turn give that money to “charities” that support Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda goals. Even if the money just went to finance an islamic school, most of those schools teach an Anti US perspective. In effect we are financing the enemy.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:42 pmshut your pie hole nazi cow!
June 27th, 2006 at 3:45 pmScarborough chooses Jefferson
As the new wave of conservative outrage explodes on our TV screens, Joe Scarborough stands out almost alone against his fellow colleagues. Author Ron Suskind said that this is all old news. Terrorists have changed the way that they deal with money transactions for years now. You can watch the video here.http://www.crooksandliars.com/ posts/ 2006/ 06/ 27/ scarborough-chooses-jefferson/
June 27th, 2006 at 3:45 pmI have to correct something Right,
the 3 billion + change number I stated is for Saudi Arabia alone. I did not include any of the other opec countries. The only other opec member we get more oil from is Venezuala.
June 27th, 2006 at 4:00 pmYour correction is fine. I don’t dispute it. I don’t suspect Venezuela of supplying money to Al Qaeda though, and since we know Chavez screws his own people to line his pockets, I’m sure we know where all of Venezuela’s money goes.
June 27th, 2006 at 4:03 pmBraid Fair - I’ll settle for US statute citations - afterall, the US Congress would be in charge of impeachment proceedings and I DON’T think your beloved UN or the Hague will have much jurisdiction. Human Rights Watch or the ACLU will be a PERFECT legal match up for one with your legal expertise - but just don’t get uppity, the ACLU doesn’t really believe in the First Amendment.
June 27th, 2006 at 4:03 pmI am wrong on that account Venezuala is the next opec supplier country behind Saudi Arabia. I will agree however that they don’t fund Al Qaeda. Other countries like United Arab Emerites, Qatar, and Yemen do however. This also doesn’t account for countries with little direct trade with the US, but sells say to china, who make all the cheap crap you buy at wal-mart. I admit it is a