The South Florida Sun-Sentinel has retracted its false report that Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) called the United States the greatest threat to world peace:
Correction: An article in Sunday’s editions misinterpreted a comment from U.S. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., at a town hall meeting in North Miami on Saturday. In his speech, Murtha said U.S. credibility was suffering because of continued U.S. military presence in Iraq ,and the perception that the U.S. is an occupying force. Murtha was citing a recent poll, by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, that indicates a greater percentage of people in 10 of 14 foreign countries consider the U.S. in Iraq a greater danger to world peace than any threats posed by Iran or North Korea.
The purported quote was seized upon by right-wing pundits, who claimed that Murtha had put “all Americans in danger” and was “in the thrall” of anti-American activists. Now they need to correct the record and let their viewers know that Murtha was quoted erroneously.
Email Bill O’Reilly, Brit Hume, Joe Scarborough, and Tucker Carlson — oreilly@foxnews.com, brit.hume@foxnews.com, joe@msnbc.com, Tucker@msnbc.com — and urge them to correct the record for their viewers. (Feel free to repost your letters in the comments section, and let us know if you hear back.)
When was the last time those 3 apologized for anything…….
June 28th, 2006 at 1:08 pmYou will hear no such retraction from the right wing pundits, who will probably keep spinning the original version for anopther week.
Goper’s Lament (Hard To Be A Republican)
June 28th, 2006 at 1:11 pmWhat’s the point in asking them to correct the record? None of them believed for a minute that Murtha had really said that - the news of the European polls had been out for quite some time and it was completely obvious what had happened. They clearly went out of their way to make the guy look bad. Shameful.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:13 pmi wonder where this retraction was buried in the paper?
too late though - the “damage” is done - and THAT was the point…
June 28th, 2006 at 1:16 pmMurtha himself is the greatest threat to world peace. On the other hand, so what if the US is the greatest threat to world peace? The world needs a good shaking up. The word of Christ and Democracy needs to be forcibly spread to the heathen nations of the world. Besides, peace and poverty go hand in hand. We all know that war means profit, and profit is the highest goal of all mankind.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:18 pm#5. How’s that 3rd Grade education working for you?
June 28th, 2006 at 1:22 pmIt does not matter what the four scum balls say. no one important listens to them. Take it for what it is worth.
Murtha has tough skin. He can take what the idiot Right Wing Republican dish out and rebutt what they say.
We need to bring our troops home by the end of the year.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:25 pmWhoah Herman, did you have your KKK cap on when you wrote this?
June 28th, 2006 at 1:26 pmDon’t forget Dan Abrams: abramsreport@msnbc.com
He’s the new chief at MSNBC and is going to change things. Maybe he can start a Retractions/Corrections Newshour
June 28th, 2006 at 1:28 pmWhat’s next? Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claim that Jon Murtha was vietcong double agent.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:31 pm#6 & #8…..click Herman’s URL, it will all become crystal clear. BTW Herman & Michael, good stuff!
June 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pmHow about
John Murtha and Jane Fonda had a love child, while turning over americans to the vietcong?
June 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pmI wouldn’t count on O’Reiley setting the record straight anytime soon…after all, this was the guy who claimed that it was the Americans who slaughtered German POWs at Malmedy in WWII, and then lied when he was called on it.
Check it out.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:38 pmEven I do not support the KKK.
11 — Thank you Lisa, I am glad you will be saved.
10 — That was the plan, who leaked that information to you?
June 28th, 2006 at 1:39 pm# 10 no actually murtha is an agent for the far left wing kook fringe who support the terrorists. That’s even worse than the VC. Too bad he got a yellow stripe up his back but then I can understand why he is angry. he has been in the congress since 1974(!!!) and has seen his party doing a nose dive in terms of elections, patriotism and reality. He is just angry because he is an old man whos party is no longer in power and this is the only way a has been can get any national attention. He does win the ted kennedy award for most pompous ass award by a chickenshit democrat in 2006 tho.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:43 pmMurtha is a traitor and a crook. We will run him through the mud over the Abscam scandal. We will take his anti-American hatred and strangle Democrats with it at the polls.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:45 pmUmm wow I think Moonbat is losing his mind. Post #16 is not mine. I am flattered, that I have someone copyiing my name, but I think it is best if we stick with our own.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:48 pmO’Reilly still hasn’t apologized for jerking himself off while on the phone with his assistant, I doubt he really cares about correcting this
June 28th, 2006 at 1:49 pmI’m sure “moonbat patrol” was right there fighting with Murtha and Kerry, yeah right! “moonbat patrol”, you are a chickenshit redneck idiot!
June 28th, 2006 at 1:52 pmI am flattered that moonbat patrol takes such an exception to me that he would copy my screen name, I think it best if we don’t muddle the issue. I did not post comment #16, not that most of you would not have figured that out.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:52 pmPeople should leave other people’s names alone. I am sure we can all agree on that, no matter if we are a Holy Republican or a hellbound liberal.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:54 pmsorry for the two posts disclaiming another post. I had some browser issues.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:55 pmMurtha is really a threat to the GOP > he should replace Rep. Nancy Pelosi as House Minority leader > she is too weak to lead the party anymore!
June 28th, 2006 at 1:57 pmMoonbat patrol, your actually stepping on a decorated marine vetran of 2 wars because he doesn’t fall in line with your way of thinking? So you slander him with witty little bits from the right’s handbook of slurs? We can go toe to toe in name calling all day but won’t get any further. if you have actual points then state them. If not, then you will get what you deserve. I may not agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it. I’ll also respond in kind to the dumb shit you post.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:57 pmHerman - i too have chosen your site as a truth venue, bookmarked next to Jesus’ General - surely you have knowledge of him at http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/
June 28th, 2006 at 2:02 pmthank you!
#15 & #16 I would like to know if you have been in the military? Maybe you should go to Iraq and fight for our country.
Murtha is a hero. He was in the military. Most of the Republican Nuts have not been in the service. Maybe they should shut their big mouths.
In November the Dems will take over both house.
# 15 Don’t forget some day you will be old so don’t be so smug because your day is coming.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:04 pm25 — Katy, thank you. Jesus’ General and my site, Conservatives for American Values are on each others blogrolls. I enjoy reading J. C. Christian’s fine words of wisdom.
Please note, everyone, that I am not here to promote my own blog. I do post in character in order to stirr up discussion. How can “you” liberals debate issues with conservatives if “you” are never exposed to the other side’s views?
Feel free to replace “you” with “we”, by the way.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:09 pmYou certainly can’t count on Tucker for a retraction/correction (his show will probably get cancelled soon anyway). I e-mailed and left voice mail about something he said on Mar. 20, 2006 (from show’s transcript):
————————————————————
CARLSON: Wait, wait, wait. Just for the record, for one thing, I opposed the invasion of Iraq.
————————————————————
However, from LibertyPost.org on May 12, 2004, in an interview with Joe Hagan, it was written and you were quoted as saying::
While he’s still a staunch conservative—he’s anti-abortion, married with four kids—he’s changed his mind about the war in Iraq. “I think it’s a total nightmare and disaster, and I’m ashamed that I went against my own instincts in supporting it,” he said. “It’s something I’ll never do again. Never. I got convinced by a friend of mine who’s smarter than I am, and I shouldn’t have done that. No. I want things to work out, but I’m enraged by it, actually.”
See, Tucker lied, never answered my e-mail, never referred to the discrepancy on the air, etc.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:14 pmYou certainly can’t count on Tucker for a retraction/correction (his show will probably get cancelled soon anyway). I e-mailed and left voice mail about something he said on Mar. 20, 2006 (from show’s transcript):
————————————————————
CARLSON: Wait, wait, wait. Just for the record, for one thing, I opposed the invasion of Iraq.
————————————————————
However, from LibertyPost.org on May 12, 2004, in an interview with Joe Hagan, it was written and you were quoted as saying::
While he’s still a staunch conservative—he’s anti-abortion, married with four kids—he’s changed his mind about the war in Iraq. “I think it’s a total nightmare and disaster, and I’m ashamed that I went against my own instincts in supporting it,” he said. “It’s something I’ll never do again. Never. I got convinced by a friend of mine who’s smarter than I am, and I shouldn’t have done that. No. I want things to work out, but I’m enraged by it, actually.”
See, Tucker lied, never answered my e-mail, never referred to the discrepancy on the air, etc.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:14 pmMurtha is an idiot riding the tide of his own fame, like Cindy Sheehan. Neither have their own opinions or in fact give two shits about this country. Maybe if Murtha had served his country on active duty instead of sitting in the rear with his thumbs up his ass, he’d have more standing with me. His military service means jack shit if he can’t think for himself and is instead the political mouthpiece of nutjob, tinfoil-hat-wearing moonbats.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pmThe problem is that the damage is done. There are many people that only receive the Sunday paper. Therefore, those people will never see the retraction and will continue to believe, like the gullible sheep they are, that Murtha was the one who said this. Why not, the newspapers continue to repeat the republican lies that Murtha called for withdrawl, when in reality he called for redeployment.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:16 pmWith all due respect Herman, we are constantly exposed to the other side’s views. the missinformation that is pumped from the WH on a regular basis is mind numbing. I am not opposed to the core republican view points and values. I’m opposed to the current administrations distortion of facts and the threat to the constitution they are waging.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:16 pm#17 Maybe if moonbat used your name he should be kicked off of Think Progress.
Sorry if this was not you on what I said on the first part of #26.
Sorry Krazny!!!
June 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pm#27 - Herman, it’s working. ;)
June 28th, 2006 at 2:17 pmpost #15 is a textbook example of the the hateful hypocritical dishonest chickenhawk
June 28th, 2006 at 2:19 pmright wing fascist idiocy we are up against. I do not advocate violence, but I do believe
that what goes around comes around - and morons such as the poster of 15 will
get their just deserts. We are losing our beloved country, and eventually no citizen
will be safe from oppression including this nitwit.
34 — I know, it is making my day.
32 — Maybe “exposed” is the wrong word. Exposure is constant. But how do you counter the arguments of someone who has no grip on the real issues, and is debating from the standpoint of pure ideology? Political debate is useless unless you are occasionaly able to change someone’s mind with it.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:22 pmHerman, well put.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:28 pm37 — Thank you, thinkaboutit, I can and will say the same for your comments.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:30 pm#30,
forgive me for chuckling when I read you complaining that Murtha and Sheehan do not “have their own opinions or in fact give two shits about this country.”
And then, to demonstrate who does have opinions of his own, you opine that Murtha is “the political mouthpiece of nutjob, tinfoil-hat-wearing moonbats.”
To me, your post is more proof (if any was needed) of why the right wing is in political freefall: too many damned clichéd slogans, not enough actual ideas.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:32 pmAh ha. You are an idiot too 40. Liberals fall into that same exact trap of spouting cliches and no ideas.
What do you think we need to do to ensure Iraq doesn’t get taken over by Al Qaida sympathizers? How do we need to proceed to ensure that we haven’t sacrificed troops in vain? Give me your plan to fix Iraq, fight terrorism abroad, and relieve US dependence on foreign oil. Please, enlighten me with an honest answer, and not the bullshit cliche of “Impeach W” and “No More War for Oil” which do nothing to answer the problems we face as a society.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:37 pmwasn’t herman kidding? lmao!!!
June 28th, 2006 at 2:38 pmOkay, so Herman is one of us pretending to be one of them?
Herman,
Sorry buddy. But, we have plenty of real trolls without the need for people to pretend to be one of them. I appreciate you wanting to help us build our debating skills, but it really isn’t needed. You see, trolls don’t debate. They only spew lies and hate. There is no need to practice mud slinging.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:39 pmI wrote the following the four (Hume, O’Reilly, Tucker, and Scarborough)
It would be excellent journalism and a boon to your credibility if you reported that the Florida Sun-Sentinel has retracted its statement regarding Rep. John Murtha:
Correction: An article in Sunday’s editions misinterpreted a comment from U.S. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., at a town hall meeting in North Miami on Saturday. In his speech, Murtha said U.S. credibility was suffering because of continued U.S. military presence in Iraq ,and the perception that the U.S. is an occupying force. Murtha was citing a recent poll, by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, that indicates a greater percentage of people in 10 of 14 foreign countries consider the U.S. in Iraq a greater danger to world peace than any threats posed by Iran or North Korea.
Sincerely,
I also wrote to Keith Olbermann and asked him if he would follow-up on the follow-up, esp. considering that two of the “journalists” are his colleagues. I know Keith doesn’t miss a chance to skewer Fox, but will he take the plunge with his own MNSBC buds?
June 28th, 2006 at 2:41 pmName one liberal cliche’s that are stated on the floor of Congress by a Congressman.
I don’t want to hear about peons posting on blogs or in newspapers. I want you to give me a link to a member of the government in the democratic party using a cliche.
You know, the way the republican party members in Congress use “cut and run” all the time.
Just one.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:42 pm42 — Not to sound too preachy, but remember this: What we call “lies and hate” they call “intelligent discourse”.
I also find it to be more of a personal challenge to write as a crazed conservative. Putting forth the same liberal thoughts, no matter how much I agree with them, is not helping me to hone my skills any. My commenting in character is not altruistic.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:43 pmPeople have problems with the truth these days. LOL.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:44 pmDude, I have tried and can’t even make my posts sound as whacky as theirs are. Mine end up sounding like jokes. You had me fooled. Usually I can spot snarky.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:46 pm“Strategic Redeployment” to Okinawa. By any chance, do you think Murtha knows that the US military is currently moving from Okinawa to Guam? I don’t know how he wouldn’t, since it’s common knowledge. Okinawans don’t want us there.
How about “illegal and unpopular war” or “war for oil”.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:48 pm47 — You would not believe the headache I have by the time I am done writing a post. Thinking like them is painful.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:50 pmPost a link to a democratic Congressman saying that. You won’t find it, because that is something us peons on the blogs say. Our heads would explode if one of our Congressman had the balls to say either of those. Try again or post a link to somebody in Congress saying either of those. You won’t find it.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:51 pm50 — I am in complete agreement. Even Herman Hayes can’t make that guys arguement.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:52 pmIw ould pose the same questions to you L suck. Where is the current plan for Iraq? Do you realize the qty. of soldiers from the “coalition” and the Iraqi forces roughly equal the amount that was first requested but shot down by Rumsfield. So is the current plan the same as the old rejected plan? Fighting terrorism abroad is not a partisan issue and won’t be solved thru division. Ideological differences can’t be swayed thru might alone. And dependence on foriegn oil, I’m not sure if you are outraged or just “staying the course” because there has been nothing from this administration that will relieve our dependence. So quickly to answer your questions. Iraq, allow the current government in Iraq to take the lead and withdraw our military to strategic points to protect their oil production.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:55 pmTerrorism, build from within the muslim communities instead of just bombing them.
Oil dependence, demand higer standards from the automotive industry and increase renewalable resource use in our industrial sectors.
see, no cliche’s
This is so wonderful that we are all getting along today and there are no trolls visiting to try to sidetrack us from the real issue of what liars they are at Fox and MSNBC (olberman excluded of course).
June 28th, 2006 at 2:55 pmthinkaboutit,
What you are describing here is redeployment. You redeploy troops to a more secure area. You withdraw troops to your home base. The words are not synonymous as the “liberal media” would have you believe.
By using withdraw, you are falling into the right wing trap of “cut and run”
June 28th, 2006 at 2:59 pmThe South Florida Sun-Sentinel “correction” is itself in need of a correction. TWELVE of the fourteen countries perceived the U.S. presence in Iraq to be the greater threat - not ten. Only Japan and Germany among the fourteen foreign countries polled considered either North Korea or Iran a greater threat to world peace than the U.S. presence in Iraq.
These rightwing freaks are RELENTLESSLY dishonest.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:59 pmHow do you build from within the Muslim communities when terrorists make those communities cower in fear?
Okay, now you impose standards on the automotive industry - what have you done personally to decrease your footprint?
55 - Yeah, cause O’Reilly complete made up the thing about Murtha. Because a news story didn’t actually circulate that attributed those statements to Murtha. Because it wasn’t picked up by other newspapers and distributed. Right, okay, sure. Go back under your rock. Maybe O’Reilly would retract his statement if you had the balls to call him.
June 28th, 2006 at 2:59 pmWhat do you think we need to do to ensure Iraq doesn’t get taken over by Al Qaida sympathizers?
Get out. We created that problem.
How do we need to proceed to ensure that we haven’t sacrificed troops in vain?
Ask the troops–get them the hell out of there and let the Iraqis decide their own fate, like they always had the right to.
Give me your plan to fix Iraq, fight terrorism abroad, and relieve US dependence on foreign oil.
Leave.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pmWork in the legal framework we were working in before 2001.
Get the stinking oilmen out of Washington, D.C. All of them.
These liars never apolagized to Durbin when he quoted an FBI report about the crimes being committed at gitmo so why does anyone think they will now?
As long as they are paid to lie they will.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:01 pmSpudge boy - once again, what does “redeployment” do for us in the long run? How does moving the troops to Okinawa (Murtha’s plan by the way) do to help stabilize the Middle East?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:02 pm59 - You honestly think just leaving Iraq in the mess we created is going to stop terrorism in the Middle East? Really? Do you honestly think that? You’re too stupid to converse with.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:04 pmHerman, you had me fooled too. So I clicked on the link, realized it was a joke. But then I read some of the comments, and had to wonder again. Didn’t I read enough comments?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:04 pm“40. Ah ha. You are an idiot too 40.”
Well we agree on something, at least.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:05 pmactually it IS “illegal and unpopular war” - Perle admited it was illegal. And you only have to look at the latest poll to see it is unpopular.
and it IS ultimately “war for oil”, no wmds, no al-queda connection. “because we wanted to free the Iraqis” ? pllleaaseee. you right wingers can give a shit about iraqis.
cliches are not cliches if they are TRUE.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:05 pmBring back the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE that Reagan killed in the 80’s..
Until the Faireness Doctrine is back - the corporate owned media is still BOUGHT & PAID for - and still PROFITING from this illegal occupation.
5 companies own 80% of our media today - they know EXACTLY what they are doing - at DEMOCRACY’s EXPENSE - which means folks - your party - Dem or Repug - doesn’t matter.
The Repugs want to continue to DIVIDE until they steal another election for the 1% richest which control our Country today. Corp+Govt=FASCISM.
HAD ENOUGH?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmBring back the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE that Reagan killed in the 80’s..
Until the Faireness Doctrine is back - the corporate owned media is still BOUGHT & PAID for - and still PROFITING from this illegal occupation.
5 companies own 80% of our media today - they know EXACTLY what they are doing - at DEMOCRACY’s EXPENSE - which means folks - your party - Dem or Repug - doesn’t matter.
The Repugs want to continue to DIVIDE until they steal another election for the 1% richest which control our Country today. Corp+Govt=FASCISM.
HAD ENOUGH?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmDon’t forget to include World Net Daily and the Drudge Report as those who need to post a retraction.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pmIt gets our American soldier out of harms way. You serve in the military? I have and being on the receiving end of a rifle is not where our men should be.
Did you find any Congressman or member of the Democratic party using the terms “illegal and unpopular war†or “war for oil� Or, are you just going to move on to a different subject, because you know I am right and you are wrong?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:08 pmTalking out of character here…the best way to stabilize the Middle East is to get the hell out of the Middle East. It has been an unstable region for thousands of years, but we are not helping.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pmNice generalization 65. Cause I don’t give a shit about Iraqis at all. Right. Try again without overgeneralizing, ass.
Cliches are cliches regardless of how true or not they are. Just like Cut and Run is a cliche, but it’s true. That’s what you want to have happen. You want us to cut our losses in Iraq, and then run to leave it to fall into a cesspool of disarray led by terrorists. Good plan.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:09 pm54 point taken. Redeploy to cover the strategic areas.
56 The vast majority of Iraq has been a western leaning country for the last 40 years. give them steady employment, a steady supply of electricity and proper plumbing and a sense of community will develop. Currently we use torture to extract false information that ends up sending out our troops into an already hostile environment for something or someone that’s not there. Downward sprial is not the answer.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:11 pmAs for your question on what am I doing? What difference would it make to you? I don’t believe for a moment that it would stop you from changing subjects and attacking at some other Right wing talking point. The automotive industry could and should do more with a target of long term gains.
72 - that’s because you aren’t doing anything about it, isn’t it?
For the record, I’m against the torture that happened at Abu Ghraib.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pmKen Livingston London Mayor said that years ago and he’s right
So do 35% of europeans think that
We cant be wrong just maybe America is the greatest threat to mankind
June 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pmbut who gives a shit cause right at this moment there are 22,500 warheads aimed at America and you only have 21,000 so you lose, this should give you a reason not to be so Pig Headed
if you attack a country that posed no threat to you, for no reason whatsover other than you believe that it is strategically important you get a footprint in the region and control the world;s oil spigot - you end up killing tens of thousands of people. yes you tool you ass,
you can give a shit about about the Iraqis.
as for cliche. I’ll give you that one. Glad you agree they are “true” cliches.
Also glad to see you agree that we “created” a mess. I am not sure if withdrawal is the
June 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pmright thingto do - BUT I do know this “stating the course” is NOT working. We are not
at war - we are in occupation - and we are resented. If they Chinese attacked us and
occupied our country - I believe we would all unite to fight then - even the trolls that
post here. They just can’t see the forest through the trees.
72 — I am sure that with that many warheads, everyone loses.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:19 pm“For the record, I’m against the torture that happened at Abu Ghraib.”
How brave.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pmliberals suck,
So, I take it you didn’t find any examples of a Democrat party member or Congressman saying “illegal and unpopular war†or “war for oilâ€?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pmOkay - now you’re spouting off about stuff you know nothing about. Have you personally been to Iraq and asked people what they want and whether they resent us being there or not? I have, and the people I’ve met don’t want us to leave until their country is fixed.
Now, you went into tinfoil hat areas by spouting off about oil control and Iraq, as if that was the reason we went there, which is patently false. You can legitimately say W went there to take out Saddam because of a latent hatred, or say that we went there to gain control of a country so that we could gain an ally (whether we “create” it or not) over there, but claiming we went for oil is a stupid argument.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:23 pm79 - did I not answer your question? Try reading. I’m told it helps.
No, I didn’t find anything from a Senator or Congressman that said exactly that. But I did find Russ Feingold talked about “immoral and unjust war in Iraq” right on his website in one of the speeches he gave in May.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:25 pm77 — Was “liberals suck” the name on your press-pass?
June 28th, 2006 at 3:26 pm59 - You honestly think just leaving Iraq in the mess we created is going to stop terrorism in the Middle East? Really? Do you honestly think that? You’re too stupid to converse with.
Not what I said, nor what other experts with more knowledge than you and me say, such things as that the “terrorist” problem in Iraq was created by our occupation, despite how often Mr. Bush repeats the totally discredited link between Iraq and September 11.
I’m trying to stop people from getting killed in the most practical, constitutional way possible. Meaning, for example, we follow the law, Period. Always.
This “War on Terror” is not George W. Bush’s personal war. It has always existed. Just not as a means to sinister ends, though they would like to believe they are saving America. Bull****. Open your eyes.
I’ll give you the courtesy of not calling you stupid or ignorant.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pmThose are not the terms that you strawmanned on every Democrat and liberal Congressman. You said that they always use the terms “illegal and unpopular war†or “war for oil�
You see, Russ is still soft on his wording. So, stop trying to pretend that what you read on blogs is the same thing that the DNC leaders are saying, because it is not the same. If you are gonna quote someone, quote someone. Put quotation marks around it and provide a link.
Otherwise, nobody listens to you and you are just a troll. Wouldn’t you rather deabte or did you come here to throw poop?
Oh wait, your screen name is liberals suck, so I am gonna go with you flinging poop instead, unless you wanna pick a different screen name.
But, I will commend you for telling the truth about “illegal and unpopular war†or “war for oilâ€.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pmMr. Suck,
I suppose we should take your anecdotal evidence of your visit over Iraq over the numerous polls showing that the majority of Iraqis want us to leave.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:31 pmThe first building the military secured during the taking of Bahdad was the ministry of Oil. Paul Wolfowitz stated the Iraqi oil reserves would be paying for this war within the first 9 months. I agree it’s a stupid arguement. One that was started by this administration.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:33 pm#40
While I agree with your posting name, you are forgetting one thing and that is liberals are hoping for defeat in Iraq. They think the United States is the terrorist organization not Al Qaeda. In fact some of them believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy created by Cheney and Bush. How whacked is that? When Ronald Reagan was asked about his plans for how to deal with the Soviet Union, he gave a simple answer, We Win, They Lose. Bush is following very much in Reagan’s footsteps in dealing with the War on Terror. You have to be committed to a principle and never back down from it. Had Reagan not insisted that Gorbachev tear down the wall, I believe that we would still be dealing with the “evil empire” today. We are winning in the war on terror but no thanks to liberals. They are so filled with hatred and so desparate for power that they will do anything, even commit treason to get it back. Heaven help us if they ever get it back.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:35 pmWait…this war is not being funded by oil? You mean my tax dollars are paying for this??? Wait…I am rich…I got a tax cut. Oh, ok, you and your children are paying for this, not me. It is ok then, I suppose.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:36 pmI would debate (I previously posted at liberals suck) but everytime I try to debate in a legitimate way with people, some poster comes on with ridiculous crazy ideas and blows that out of the water.
I did not try to strawman out that all liberals and Democrats in Congress or the House use those terms. I merely pointed out that cliches exist on both sides of the aisle. “Strategic Redeployment” sticks in my maw because it’s a stupid euphemism. What does that mean to the men and women who are deployed? It doesn’t mean they come home to their families. It doesn’t solve the problem in Iraq either. What it means is we pull everyone from Iraq, but then don’t send them home, which is a dumb idea.
Now, “Cut and Run” may be a new cliche, but honestly, if you were to nail down exactly what Murtha argued for, it would be cutting our losses and moving our troops. That’s the essence of “Cut and Run”.
83 - I won’t call you stupid again. It seems that that appellation gets attributed way too much from people on both sides of the spectrum, but if you reread what you wrote, it sure sounds like you are advocating a position that the only way to stop terrorists is to completely abandon the Middle East. I promise you that won’t work.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:37 pmLets not forget the PNAC as well. the group who advocating military intervention in Iraq, and Iran to control the oil resources in the region. The signatories of the PNAC include Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, William Kristol. the question is of course how many of these men are now controlling the government.
for a full list see link and scroll to the bottom of the page.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
June 28th, 2006 at 3:39 pmagio - your first link didn’t work for me, and the second link doesn’t say anything about us leaving. Secondly, it’s from 2004. The most recent reports from the Iraqi government say that they want us to stay until they have a stable, workable government. Anecdotal or not, the people I met feel the same way. They are more afraid of the Islamic extremists that are waging the insurgency than they are of us right now. They just want to make sure we leave as soon as they can fend for themselves.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pm87 — That is a terrifying document, for the record.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pmRandy,
Thanks for bringing your plushy, straw-stuffed liberal doll to show and tell. It looks sort of like the real thing, if you squint your eyes. And it’s more fun to beat on, since it doesn’t fight back.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:43 pmit amazes me that so many posts will tell someone what they are thinking or wanting but then ignore the many posts to the contrary. Randy and L. Suck keep stating this is what liberals think and then spout the same strawmen that have been previously shot down. Lumping all liberals together has the same weight as lumping all repbulicans together. Is it really all group think? Does Coulter or Limbaugh speak for all Republicans? If so then what is to be said of the 3 Republicans that voted against the flag burning amendment? FYI Randy, Reagan changed his stance on terrorism and withdrew from Beruit. He was smart enough to realize a different path would be better. As for the Soviet Union, Reagan saw an opporturnity that the USSR was crumbling behind the iron curtain and forced the issue. A brilliant move but didn’t cause the downfall. He took advantage of the situation and made it his own.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:43 pmTry stating your strong points instead of telling everyone what you believe them to think. You might actually have something to say.
91 Amen.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:48 pmI object to being grouped in with Randy - not once have I said all liberals think X or Y. I have said that the majority opinion is to leave Iraq, and have continually asked for clarification on how that would solve the problem.
We screwed up Iraq - we need to fix it. I don’t think like “all Republicans” because I too think the flag burning amendment was both a waste of time and a dumb proposal. But don’t forget there were some Dems who voted for it, including Reid and Pelosi.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:48 pmOddly enough, no matter if I am writing in character or out of character, I have no love for Nancy Pelosi.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:50 pmRight,
“I too think the flag burning amendment was both a waste of time and a dumb proposal. But don’t forget there were some Dems who voted for it, including Reid and Pelosi.”
I think any liberal would heartily agree that the Republican party does not have a monopoly on idiocy.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pmMy mistake, I meant Feinstein and Reid. Pelosi is in the house. I typed her name by mistake.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:53 pmRight, I agree with your points. Walking away from Iraq is not the answer. Either is staying the course. If this country was run like a business the CEO would have been fired a long time ago. The Flag burning amendment is a political ploy at it’s worst. The meaning behind the flag is much stronger than the flag itself. One person’s desecration of the flag strengthens my reslove for the meaning in which it stands.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:58 pmQuick! Someone tell me the proper way to dispose of a tattered and worn flag! Quick!
June 28th, 2006 at 3:59 pmTear the blue field from the stripes. Tear the stripes, then burn them before burning the field.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:01 pmthat would be to burn it Herman
June 28th, 2006 at 4:01 pmThank you. I am glad we can all agree that a flag burning amendment is just a little bit stupid. Would I have to get a special license to dispose of a flag? No need to answer that one.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:03 pmSupposed to seperate the stars from the stripes then burn in two seperate fires.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:05 pmI am so confused by this herman guy. sometimes he talks liberal and sometimes republican.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pmI find it interesting that the right is clamoring for this flag burning amendment stating that the polls show a majority of Americans want it but then brush off the polls when the majority think we are going in the wrong direction in _________ (fill in the blank, too many to show here).
June 28th, 2006 at 4:14 pm104 — We don’t brush off the polls, we just know which ones to pay attention to.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:16 pm103 — Ok, here it is for everyone. I am a liberal. I write a satire blog. I am not here promoting that blog, I just really think that ThinkProgress is one of the finest sites on the internet, and the discussion here is great. I most often write in character, as satire. From here on in, if I am speaking out of character, I will state that as plainly as I can. If people are confused and asking questions about me, it takes away from the discussion of the topic at hand. Thank you all, and I hope this straightens things out.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:21 pmSo, Mr. Hayes, the polls don’t matter when the majority of Americans don’t trust the republican congress but they matter when that same congress wants to push the flag burning amendment?
June 28th, 2006 at 4:21 pm107 Right! Polls that favor us are valid, and the rest are biased.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:23 pmMy message:
Gentlemen,
The Sun-Sentinal retracted it’s false claim that Murtha said, “American presence in Iraq is more dangerous to world peace than nuclear threats from North Korea or Iran…” Today, the Sun-Sentinal printed this retraction:
Correction: [no need to rehash]
It’s time for you gentlemen to step up to the plate and retract your statements regarding Murtha. Be courageous and tell the truth. I know that truth in reporting is next to impossible for O’Reilly and Hume, but I believe in Joe and Tucker. Don’t let me down.
Sincerely,
June 28th, 2006 at 4:28 pmVaughn D. Taylor
Herman,
I think I love you. In a man loves a man platonic way of course.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:29 pmSpeaking as a conservative, I have sent an email to O’Reilly and Hume. I couldn’t care any less about Scarborough or Carlson, so I didn’t bother with those two. I’m fairly confident that Hume at least might make a retraction. We’ll see about O’Reilly, although he has gone on record before when brought to task - WMDs being a major one.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:30 pmMr. Hayes, I’m thankful that Murtha has so valiantly fought in the battlefield and congress for you to continue the blind sheep path you are on. As for apologies, I doubt anymore would be heard. It would be seen as a weakness and that can’t be allowed, no matter how wrong they know they are.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:31 pm111 — I love you too, in the way Jesus intends. Only in the way Jesus intends. Actually, I am going to use the word “like”, that way there is no ambiguity. I don’t want to go to Hell.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:32 pm113 — Out of character — Murtha lives just to the south of me, and I love the man. (Again, in the plationic sense.) I think he speaks the truth, and I am proud that he is a Pennsylvanian.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:34 pmI missed your post on the satirical postions. Very Stephen Colbert
June 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pmI would doubt O’Rielly will issue a retraction. He doesn’t strike me as a guy who would admit he is wrong.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pm116 — out of character — I thought that might be the case. I might have to drop it here, though. It does lead to some good discussions, but it might be too confusing. I am going to see how the — out of character — thing works out.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:37 pmRe ‘Right’s comment that the Iraqi government wants us to stay, no that’s not correct. When the Iraqi Pres was here it was BUSH that said that’s what they wanted… about 3 days later the Iraqis came out with a formal written request for a timetable for our withdrawl and replacement with UN Peacekeeping troops… they also complained about ‘wanton disregard for the lives of Iraqi civilians’… remember NOW?
June 28th, 2006 at 4:43 pmActually, the Iraqi Prime Minister wants us to stay.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:45 pmBut he also asked for some sort of plan to get us troops out of Iraq. He wants us to continue to help stabilize the country, but they don’t want the same type of set up we have in europe and korea.
June 28th, 2006 at 4:56 pmOur troops must stay in Iraq until everyone, both sects, are either dead or have capitulatied to us. Then we must bring in the BRC…the Baptist Reconstruction Corps. They will build schools, roads, hospitals…and “religious structures of immense size.” Mega-somethings-or-others.
June 28th, 2006 at 5:09 pmMaybe Murtha didn’t say it, but I sure as hell will.THE UNITED STATES IS THE WORLD’S GREATEST THREAT TO WORLD PEACE, AND IS COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST PEACE AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. PLANNING AND WAGING WARS OF AGGRESSION AND COMMITTING ATROCITIES, IN VIOLATION OF THE UN CHARTER AND THE NUREMBURG RULINGS.
June 28th, 2006 at 6:08 pmRemember, readers, anything in bold has got to be the unvarnished truth. Simple fact.
June 28th, 2006 at 6:19 pmShould have been GW is the greatest threat to world peace. Good thing the world has been proved to be idiot proof.
June 28th, 2006 at 6:21 pmsir, might i suggest:
June 28th, 2006 at 7:19 pmin character - Herman, Favored Pupil of Christ
out of character - Herman B. Hayes
post # 16 is not mine # 15 is tho. #19 yeah well you are a five year old on mommies computer so ya had better get off befire she takes your pacifier away.
June 28th, 2006 at 7:24 pm#20 - I am flattered that you are flattered.
#123 I should have shot you in ‘Nam when i had the chance. I guess the nuthouse let ho-chi min out for a bit too long today… nice commie , now back to your rice paddy.
it’s nice to see the supporters of saddam hussein and osama so vocal here. nothing says progressive like supporting those third world dicatators and terrorists.
and where did murtha come from anyway?? he has been asleep in congress since 1974 and now suddenly the liberal press waltzes him out to bash Bush.
this yellow buffoon suddenly gets 15 minutes of fame on the walk of liberals so he can bellow his bellicose anti- war cowardice. If you think for one minute that this pompous windbag , the bastard father of michael moore , cares about the war you are a bigger fool than he is. His grandstanding is about hating Bush and like most moonbats and has shown his hand by showing the yellow stripe up his back.
So much anger, can’t we all just get along? We could, if all the liberals on this site would stop talking and let us conservatives take over.
June 28th, 2006 at 7:26 pmThus will end the careers of most of these rightwing surrender monkeys. But, there’s neither glory nor satisfaction in opposing them, only sadness that they have “hunted the phantom and missed the house.”
mp
June 28th, 2006 at 7:39 pmHerman, is the moonbat posting at 126 one of your disciples? It’s getting harder and harder to tell the chosen from the unchosen.
BTW moonbat #126
According to de Havilland (who popularized the term), a moonbat is “someone on the extreme edge of whatever their -ism happens to be”. Cronin defines it as “someone who sacrifices sanity for the sake of consistency”. This term was originally coined to describe commentators on the political Right as well as certain libertarians.
The word seems like it might apply in your case. You were fooled by this administration’s case for war and it seems that you’re tangled up once again in the underwear of its rhetoric.
Murtha thinks that sooner or later no matter what we do (stay or leave) Iraqis will fashion a government accountable to them in some fashion. He thinks that great day will come sooner rather than later if we get out of the way and encourage the Iraqis to stop killing each other.
What if Murtha’s right? That would make at least twice that this administration has fooled you.
June 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pmThis is the email that I sent to Brit Hume
To Mr. Hume
The other day you smeared John Murtha by taking information printed about him and spreading it across the airwaves. To bad that it was a lie. Check the paper that wrote the story for the retraction. An apology on the air would be nice but I won’t hold my breath.
June 28th, 2006 at 9:15 pmOnly slightly ot.. always interesting to see what the rest of the world thinks about us:
I miss the greatness of the USA.. I only hope that it’s not too late to get it back again.
June 28th, 2006 at 9:40 pmLiberals Suck
” “Strategic Redeployment†sticks in my maw because it’s a stupid euphemism. What does that mean to the men and women who are deployed?”
It means that they’re out of immediate and continous danger and that Iraqi’s are left with no choice but to step up to the plate. In other words, IT SAVES LIVES, and puts the Iraqi’s in real control of their country’s security. Withdrawal of most US forces will have an immediate impact on a lot of insurgents. With the US gone many will no longer have a reason to take up arms.
“if you were to nail down exactly what Murtha argued for, it would be cutting our losses and moving our troops. That’s the essence of “Cut and Runâ€.
No ‘cutting & running’ is throwing in the towel, giving up. Redeploying our forces to Kuwait (which is where Murtha would put the bulk of the redeployed forces, not Okinawa as you incorrectly stated earlier) is a tactic to be employed as part of the larger fight against terrorism. It makes sense and if you can’t see that then you better agrue with Gen. Casey, as it’s essentially the plan he’s now moving forward with.
No one has talked about ‘abandoning’ the Middle East. The majority of people posting are talking about new startegies and real engagement with the diverse groups oppossed to current US policies in the region. It would also help if the US stopped kidnapping (extraordinary rendition) illegally jailing (Bagram air base, Guantanomo Bay), torturing (Bagram, Abu Ghraib) and killing (Iraq) Middle Eastern civilians.
June 28th, 2006 at 10:07 pmI would retract if he or a credible source denied the comment. Not that idon’t trust you but I really don’t.
June 28th, 2006 at 10:46 pm130 — No, none of my disciples post here. It is too unclean for their simple minds to handle.
June 28th, 2006 at 10:59 pmOnce again the Conservatives have raised their ugly head and are trying to take away the freedom of our free press.
How much more will it take before we walk in shackles of the Bush Administration, where we will have to have a chip implanted to even buy anything.
With every freedom that the Conservatives manage to take away, we come closer to a New World Order.
How long will it be before we are a Nation under siege?
I wrote and posted this in my Blog Site http://marthaspeaks.blogstream.com/
They drink from his cup of evil
By Martha Leftwich
Bush has taken another step toward his Dictatorship.
June 28th, 2006 at 11:08 pmBush has announced that he wants to bring charges against the News Media for printing the truth.
He wants to operate in the darkness of evil, under the cloud of secrecy.
He doesn’t want the American Public, Congress, nor the Senate to know what his plan for America is.
His ten lane Highway running from Canada to Mexico, his plan to combine Mexico and Canada with the United States was all done in the shadows veiled from the American public and the Honest Lawmakers, he managed to commit treason by giving our Nuclear technology to India.
He is above the law, make no mistake about it.
His followers are just as guilty as he is, they are being led into the same darkness of evil that he abides by.
They will drink from his bloody cup of lies, wipe their mouth and spew lies from it, as lava spews from a volcano, the difference is that instead of lava it is the blood of our Troops being drained from their lifeless bodies in two foreign Wars based on the lies of a greedy depraved man.
The lies that is being spewed from their mouths is just as deadly as the lava from a volcano, those lies are destroying everything in their path.
They worship the King George version of the Bush Bible, and profess to be Christians, supporting the evil path that is destroying America.
When the time comes they will bow down and drink his Nuclear Kool-Aid just as the Jim Jones followers did, for they are so devoted to him and his loyal Administration that they think they will become martyrs, they are no different than those that are committing suicide in car bombs in Iraq or the ones that manned the planes that flew into the Trade center, they are the destroyers of America and everything our fore fathers fought and died for. They are the people who believes in a New World Order, they are the ones that would destroy everyone that doesn’t believe as they do, they want a Unified world of Robots controlled by a remote control held in the hand of the Bush Administration.
After all the country I worked hard for to be a shining example has taken the wrong path for last so many years. It is sad to see that. Even Nixon who is suffering at the hands of hell’s torturers for his crimes against humanity and violating the US Constitution is regretting that he a had lapse of judgment and hopes his pain and suffering in hell will soon end.
Now, with Rush there is a palce known as hell’s hell where the ones who can never be save go and pay their dues for their ill will, hatred, bigotry, dishonesty, innuendatos, stealing from the ordinary Joes and Janes, poisoning the people who are their target audience, etc. Rush, Bill O, Brit H, Tucker C, David B, David B, Howie Kutz, Tim Russert, George Steph (of ABC), Tony Snow and their ilk have special resreved spaces for them in this place. One of the residents waiting for these new residents is Lee Atwater who has already reached there.
GOD is going to work miracles. Have faith in thee. If GOD was on earth today, he would have to live in Guantamo Bay, Cuba.
June 28th, 2006 at 11:21 pmMOONBAT; I don’t believe that a chickenshit like you EVER spent a single day in the military.(Too busy making sure your draft deferments were in order–that is, if you’re even old enough). Me; I was drafted.
June 28th, 2006 at 11:29 pmI certainly hope Herr Herman gets his chance to go
serve in Iraq. We need good NaziChristian boys at
the Front. We can be sure, he will be nice entertainment
for the Verteran Combat Troops.
Liberals are not hoping for defeat in Iraq. We are waiting
June 29th, 2006 at 4:46 amfor your Reichwingers, to join up, and show us how a
real patriot fights the islamic rabble. So far, only a
very few of you sanctified young republicans have
blessed the Fighting Troops, will your military
expertize. Its no wonder its taking so long to achive
Final Victory.
Never forget, the people on the left hand of Christ,
are on the Right opposite him. As usual, you got it
ass backwards.
You will be facing Christ, not sitting with him. Even
tho you exhalt yourselves to that position.
Hell’s Kitchen - you’re a moron. Did you know that the majority of troops in the officer community come from middle class or upper middle class backgrounds, and most are staunchly conservative? Check the voting records of most military personnel if you doubt me. I was the Voting Assistance Officer onboard the ship so I can speack from personal experience, but I doubt you have anything to go off of.
Shut your stupid pie-hole until you have something intelligent and valuable to add to a converstation.
June 29th, 2006 at 8:07 am#138 I was lucky , I did not get drafted , I ENLISTED to serve my country you chickenshit commie.
June 29th, 2006 at 9:00 amApparently moonbatpatrol is not old. So he/she should sign up to fight in Iraq if it is such a good idea to be there.
June 29th, 2006 at 10:57 amBush is an idiot riding the tide of his own fame, like Dick Cheney. Neither have their own opinions or in fact give two shits about this country. Maybe if Bush had served his country on active duty instead of sitting in the rear with his thumbs up his ass, he’d have more standing with me. His military service means jack shit if he can’t think for himself and is instead the political mouthpiece of nutjob, tinfoil-hat-wearing moonbats.
June 29th, 2006 at 11:02 am144–interesting point. Bush promised to be a uniter, not a divider. The decision to go to war in Iraq, the decision to still be there more than 3 years later, and the way his admin and supporters have responded to critics of the war all have had divisive effects. That is not say everyone on our side of the debate is angelic, but Bush made a statement about his ability to unite people and that has simply not happened. Buck stops with the president — hey, Republicans are all about personal responsibility anyways so I’m sure he would acknowledge this hasn’t worked out
June 29th, 2006 at 3:47 pmTo Right:
Your post addressed ZERO vis a vis my post. But then thats normal
for brainwashed reichwing rabble. Change the subject, call names,
belittle. I think it more, when you have something to say other than
Reichwing talking points, people might listen to you. Bush isn’t the
problem, he is just the rash that shows up, representing the total
bankruptcy of the conservative party. That you so aptly represent.
Large gapping piehole and all.
Rear area swine.
June 29th, 2006 at 7:42 pmMoonbat; Better Red than Dead!
June 29th, 2006 at 7:55 pmi love that “liberals suck” has had his comment pushed back to be numbered 40, so now he’s calling himself an idiot (”You are an idiot too 40″). actually, in context, it’s become an “idiot feedback loop”.
kind of exemplifies the futility and utter assinine foolishness of trolls in general.
June 30th, 2006 at 12:45 ammondieu patrol used to be in the french foreign legion. france still thanks you for your service, mondieu!
“right” forgets to mention that those officers are not the privates on the front lines. i’m sure it’s quite easy for admiral halliburton and general carlyle to remain staunchly conservative despite the war. their financial futures depend on it. when they leave the military, they’re off to be advisors for some defense contractor somewhere.
June 30th, 2006 at 12:57 amsorry i just couldn’t pass this up, from “liberals suck”:
how about not invade it in the first place?
June 30th, 2006 at 1:00 am[…] The story was false. Murtha was citing an international public opinion poll, not expressing his own views. On Wednesday, the Sun-Sentinel issued a correction. We urged ThinkProgress readers to contact the television outlets that pushed the innaccurate story and correct the record for their viewers. […]
June 30th, 2006 at 10:18 amThis story has taken so many twists and turns, if you blink, you’ll crash at the next turn, as some significant players already have.
New developments are being being tracked at this news site:
http://theinfozone.net/JohnMurtha.html
A notable development: The original Sun-Sentinel’s article written by Elizabeth Baier, has been removed from their site and replaced with Ms. Baier’s revised story.
If any of you bookmarked Sun-Sentinel’s original article that has made them famous for their “the shot heard around the world”, check your bookmarked page now. The significance of this is rather overwhelming. This weeks’ hysteria, and subsequent retractions and corrections is over something that “never happened”.
Interesting to note, it retains the original publication date June 25, 2006, and The Sun-Sentinel did not note this story is a revision.
We here at “The World of Journalism Is Flat, Too” tip our hats to all those who have taken up our cause that we began at 12:03AM Monday, June 26, 2006, when I sent an email complaining about Elizabeth’s article to 39 staff members at the Sun-Sentinel and 70+ staff members at the Arizona Star.
What will happen next week, will surprise you further.
Cliff Hancuff
July 2nd, 2006 at 3:36 pmThe World of Journalism is Flat, Too
Thank you for the compliment at top. I’ll let you know first, since you’re the first to credit me. Please read the following IN BOLD VERY CAREFULLY, if you value what we’re doing in any way, shape or form.
I’M JUST THE FORREST GUMP (SOME WOULD SAY ANDY GUMP) IN ALL THIS.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME. ANY TIME SPENT ACKNOWLEDGING ME COULD BE PUT TO MUCH BETTER USE ACTING ON THE REQUEST BELOW. YOU CAN SMILE AT YOUR OWN SMARTS IN FIGURING OUT WHAT ALL THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT WELL IN ADVANCE OF MAIN STREAM MEDIA FOLKS.
ALL THIS IS SOLELY ABOUT WHAT “THE WORLD OF JOURNALISM IS NOT FLAT, TOO” WANTS TO ACCOMPLISH, ASAP.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY.
HERE’S WHAT’S IMPORTANT. FOLLOW YOUR OWN “INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING”, SEE OF YOU FIND MORE MISBEHAVIOURS. WE HAVE A LOT WITH REGARDS TO FIRST “THE SHOT HEARD AROUND THE WORLD”, THAT GOT REPEATED EVERYWHERE.
If you find another MAIN STREAM MEDIA SOURCE that turns that FIRST PARAGRAPH INTO A DIRECT QUOTE ATTRIBUTED TO MURTHA, DO EITHER A SCREEN CAPTURE OR CACHE COPY (PREFERABLY BOTH). I’LL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO WITH IT, BELOW.
WE NEED MORE THAN JUST “GOT YA!” SAMPLES, WE NEED EDITORS TO STUDY THESE REPORTS CAREFULLY BEFORE THEY GET SENT TO US. THIS WILL KEEP OUR FOCUS ON THE HUNT AND NOT BE WASTING TIME SHUFFLING THROUGH EMAILS THAT DO NOT PROVIDE SOUND DOCUMENTATION OF THE PARTICULAR MISBEHAVIOR BEING REPORTED.
We already know that the site drudgereport originally linked to, http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/ data/ 2006/ 06/ 25/ 20060625_183801.htm
at the Arizona star, has not changed their page, though I a significant editor there sent me an email saying it would be changed as soon as it was proven false. This is the kind of stuff that will be very helpful.
Sending links to sites as you found them, is useless. You must do a “save as” of the page, or a FULL SCREEN CAPTURE OF THAT PAGE. You’d be surprised at how stuff on a particular page you think is insignificant, is not. Get all that you can.
Here’s what to do with your evidence. Create an email with your evidence and commentary of what you’ve found, and attached files of your the related screen captures/cache files, then email them … to yourself. This will give you a tidy package to forward to us. We will have an email address for you to send these to in a few days. When we do, I will publish that all over the blog space.
The game’s afoot. (”pin the tail on the donkey”)
Cliff Hancuff
July 3rd, 2006 at 8:07 amThe World of Journalism Is Flat, Too
As of the date and time stamp of this posting the following is correct:
The original first paragraph written by Elizabeth Baier at the Sun-Sentinel has been removed. Since their original correction to their story and my constant vigilance and the constantly updated reporting at theinfozone.net, they have rewritten this entire original article.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/ news/ local/ broward/ sfl-ctownhall25jun25,0,7119684.story
What distinguishes this as unique is that though newspapers certainly update stories all the time, but when doing so, they are required by standard journalism practice to make clear it’s a revision, stating prominently at the top this story is a revision and updating the date of the article to the date of the revision. They have done neither.
Any impression created by this posting that this indicates that the Sun-Sentinel is covering up what they started by making all the uproar of this week over something that “never happened†is not my intent here. (legal disclaimers have become necessary)
Wait until you hear the new development today. It’s a doozy.
Cliff Hancuff
July 5th, 2006 at 6:40 pmThe World of Journalism Is Flat, Too
Despite an email warning to Mr. Pasco to contact Sharon Rosenhause, Managing Editor at the Sun-Sentinel, irey.com continues to maintain this page.
“Is Murtha channeling Marty McFly? Congressman’s June 27 press release magically includes information from … June 28?”
http://www.irey.com/news/Read.aspx?Id=61
In my email exchange with Mr. Pasco yesterday he attempted to float this clever headline with me in an email. I responded to him with this:
—————————————————————————-
If you really want to follow this “rapid crash journalism” course of action of yours, let me assist you in doing so properly. This is John Murtha’s original press release issued by Cindy Abram on June 27th.
http://theinfozone.net/ PDFfiles/ MurthaPressRelease.pdf
…
You can understand why Cindy Abram updated Mr. Murtha’s press release from the 27th now, I presume. After all, most would conclude that the Sun-Sentinel, who created this mess to start with, was in a better position to fix what Elizabeth Baier broke than theinfozone.net.
Please note: Ms. Baier as well as her editor Ms. Rosenhause are recipients of this email.
Mr Pasco(sic), perhaps they will be gracious enough to assist you towards a more lucid understanding of your “Marty McFly” insight.
—————————————————————————-
Apparently Mr. Bill Pascoe puts more faith in continuing his slander strategy than makes sense.
Ms Rosenhause has her own special part in this. The Sun-Sentinel has removed their retraction … the correction that rewrote the “the shot heard around the world” first paragraph. The Sun-Sentinel has suddenly placed it in their paid archives, removing it from public domain. The only way you will find the unethical rewrite (still in public domain) is through google cache. You may wish to contact her as well.
For the sake of clarity, inquiries regarding THIS turn of events should include the Subject Line: Mr. Bill
Bill Pascoe
bill@irey.com
phone: (724) 258-2300
Sharon Rosenhause
srosenhause@sun-sentinel.com
phone: (954) 425-1200
Cliff Hancuff
July 12th, 2006 at 3:16 pmThe World of Journalism Is Flat, Too
The saga continues …
http://factcheck.org/article415.html
Note Dr. Waller’s “cut&run†from his “Moonie†Lincoln quote and then compare it to his original article:
http://www.arthuravenuebronx.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1472
You may find sufficient resources to conclude Waller invented it in the first place.
Waller writes at the bottom of his Moonie publication story:
“This reporter found the quotes in a June 1863 letter that President Lincoln wrote, published that year in pamphlet form as “The Truth from an Honest Man: The Letter of the President,†by King & Baird Printers in Philadelphia and distributed by the Union League. Insight thanks Herbert Romerstein for providing the original pamphlet from his collection.â€
I own two original King&Baird TRUTH FROM AN HONEST MAN pamphlets published in June of 1863. I loaned one of them to Brooks Jackson at factcheck.org
Not that Diana Irey can be trusted for much more than what her GOP mangers tell her to say, but perhaps you’ll give some credence to what her “handler†Bill Pascoe (Former Press Secretary for the RNC) wrote for her on her web site:
http://www.irey.com/news/contentview.asp?c=35681
I love the part where Mr. Bill writes:
“Today I became aware for the first time …â€
I think you may get a chuckle out of the thread I started at the Trib-Democrat, the local paper in the town where Irey just set up shop:
http://community.cnhi.com/ eve/ forums/ a/ tpc/ f/ 4871074/ m/ 664107374
I wrote the whole group at Irey.com on July 14th and then again on August 4th that Waller invented this Moonie Lincoln quote.
The relevant post in that Tribune-Democrat thread comes near the end, just after the world’s longest blog post, a full copy of the email I sent Irey, Pascoe, and friends, on August 4th.
My great, great grandfather, after whom I am named in honor of, served in Lincoln’s Union Army. He made the supreme sacrifice for our country on March 23, 1862, serving Stonewall Jackson he only defeat in the Civil war.
Lincoln was, to borrow a title, “A Uniterâ€
When some goofball Republican operative abuses the reputation of our greatest Republican president, in a Moonie publication no less, for the expressed purpose of political gain for today’s Republican Party … it troubles me.
Can guess who brought this Moonie Lincoln quote to life just a few weeks after Waller invented it?
(Hint: Swift Boat Veterans for Truth)
Cliff Hancuff
August 29th, 2006 at 12:51 amThe World of Journalism Is Flat, Too
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January 12th, 2007 at 1:25 am