Hume: A Preemptive Strike on North Korea Would Be a ‘Successful Strategy’
Hume: A Preemptive Strike on North Korea Would Be a ‘Successful Strategy’
This morning on Fox News Sunday, Brit Hume said North Korea’s missiles are “sitting there like the Washington Monument” and “knocking the missiles out” would be “a successful possible strategy.” Watch it:
Joe Cirincione explains why a preemptive strike on North Korea’s missles would be a disastrous blunder.
Transcript:
WILLIAMS: I don’t think you’re suggesting in General Kristol mode that we start bombing the sites of their
HUME: That’s what we could do.
WILLIAMS: If we do that, what are you inviting? What are you guys suggesting here is the hard line with North Korea?
HUME: The one thing about knocking the missiles out on the ground, they’re sitting there like the Washington Monument, they can be struck. That is something we could do and would make a successful possible strategy.
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You linked to the wrong video. It’s of Bush’s interview with Larry King.
July 9th, 2006 at 10:20 amIsn’t Brit Hume an alumni of the school of thought that preaches and teaches that a nuclear war is winnable? At the very least, it would be profitable. All options must be on the table.
July 9th, 2006 at 10:20 amThanks Jason. Video is fixed.
July 9th, 2006 at 10:24 amThen of course when it backfires Hume will blame Bill Clinton…..
Hume is the biggest Bush et al apologist out there….
July 9th, 2006 at 10:27 amWhy not? After 35 years of reading the news Brit is as capable as anyone in the WH to set American terror polity…..
July 9th, 2006 at 10:43 ammissiles that went 20 miles?
July 9th, 2006 at 10:51 am#5, good one!
Brit Hume is insane. Would he advocate the same policy if his children had to carry it out?
July 9th, 2006 at 10:52 amWe need to put all the neocons and their spokespeople on lithium. Pronto. Their insane irrational fear of insane irrational fears is going to get us attacked by more than just a crazy trust-fund Saudi with too much time on his hands and a couple dozen delusional juveniles willing to die for him…
Seriously, Hume has done off the deep end. Why doesn’t he slow down for two seconds and realized that all of North Korea’s nukes were amassed after Madeleine Albright stopped paying Kim Jong Ill monthly visits to make him feel important – during the Clinton Administration. What the Bush Regime and its patsies does not know about human nature is beyond dangerous.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:02 amHow did we ever get to this point….
July 9th, 2006 at 11:02 amThat’s right.
Ignore the issue of Brit Hume advocating an insane policy and change the discussion to something purely speculative so that you can get your mental masturbation in for the day. Freak!
July 9th, 2006 at 11:07 amHume should be transferred to his nearest mental health facility and treated before he does terminal harm to himself (and perhaps our nation). Doesn’t he realize that NK’s missile threat carries as much risk to the US as the Vatican’s? Their ground forces are more of a threat and a US strike would more than likely lead to repercussions from them and the remainder of the world. The Iraqi “cake walk†pales in comparison.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:09 amYeah, successful at starting another war we have no ability to win.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:14 amThese guys remind me of General Curtis LeMay. For those of you too ypung to remember, he ran for VP with George Wallace in 1968. His solution for VietNam was to “bomb them back to the Stone Age.” We damn near did.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:18 amBrit Hume should be the first soldier sent into North Korea after his idea sets off a nuclear war! FOX News whores are vile warmongering slobs, but they want others to fight and die for them!
July 9th, 2006 at 11:19 amDon’t click on Seixon’s link. He’s only here to get people to go to his website so Google will support him filling our blogs with his irrational blather while he hides innorway from Osama bin Laden, and the possibility of a draft.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:20 amJay,
Great idea. In fact, let’s send him to North Korea now so he can cover the story as it happens… :)
July 9th, 2006 at 11:22 am#11 – “Doesn’t he realize that NK’s missile threat carries as much risk to the US as the Vatican’s?”
What?
#12 – “Yeah, successful at starting another war we have no ability to win.”
Oh ye of little faith. Kim Jong Il was feeling neglected because the US was focusing too much attention to the Iranian nuclear program. He just wants to be paid off again.
What’s funny to me is how so many self-styled “progressives” jump to defend the most successful totalitarian regime in history. NK is a quintessential failed state – a Stalinist experiment, best characterized by unparalleled famine and a rejection of basic human rights.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:23 am#13 – Toes,
July 9th, 2006 at 11:24 amBut then bamboo splints soaked in excretement work equally well on foot soldiers as they did on wooly mammoths.
Listen america you have to stop this Preemptive Strike NONESENCE
America needs to constrain the authority of the president to order nuclear strikes against non-nuclear states. Immediately. Change the law, change the Constitution. Congress is derelict in its responsibility by continuing to ignore this imminent threat.
The United Nations needs to address the first-use of nuclear weapons, and the use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states. Immediately.
The last use of nuclear weapons needs to remain Nagasaki, so that the world’s nuclear nations will be “deterred” from using nuclear weapons ever again. The day the last use of nuclear weapons becomes Natanz, humanity will be irremediably doomed. And the greatest democracy in the world will be responsible.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:25 amBrit, take some time off. Make an appointment for a psych evaluation, and a complete physical workup. There is something WAY wrong with you.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:29 amIn that case, when it comes to doing what’s best for this country, a pre-emptive air strike against the Fox News Channel headquarters would also be a successful strategy.
Idjit.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:29 amClinton’s Plan 5027 proposed to do a nuclear trike on N. Korea. Hmm, Clinton thought Norrh Korea was a threat. Joe doesn’t? I bet this is another case of Joe cdhanging his tune. In the 90’s Joe told us that Iraq had WMD’s and was a threat, then completely forgot he said such a thing and now claims Iraq wasn’t a threat.
What a phony.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:30 am#20 – As an obvious scholar of American law, how do you suppose we legally “constrain the authority of the president to order nuclear strikes against non-nuclear states”? I’m all ears.
The problem, my friend, is that the doctrine of deterrance is wholly inapplicable when the most immediate threat is state-independent actors. Deterrance is completely ineffective against terrorist organizations who would use a nuclear device. And this is our greatest threat – and the greatest threat to the UK as well.
Deterrance and containment are decidedly pre-1989 doctrines who, while still applicable in some situations, are less than adequate in confronting the real threat of the new century – Islamic terrorism.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:33 amSeixon,
Do you mean how did it ever get to the point where the U.S. and N. Korea actually attempted diplomacy to solve problems?
But Clinton’s successor chose a different path:
July 9th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Chase,
No one is defending North Korea. They are a human right’s abomination. We are trying to defend our own country. Because if we keep pre-emptively attacking other countries, we will find ourselves fighting the rest of the world in our own backyard. You do realize that don’t you?
July 9th, 2006 at 11:35 amChase, umm open up a history book, see the previous Korean Conflict. The only way the USA could beat N. Korea is with nukes, is that somewhere you really want to go? Okay maybe shrubby could start a draft, that would go over as well as the Vietnam draft.
No one here is defending N Korea, stop trying to project your bullshit. Something you repukes need to learn is Diplomacy. And if paying him off is what takes to keep peace, it’s better than killing hundreds of thousands of people, maybe millions, maybe everyone including you. Ahh but paying someone off doesn’t fill the bank accounts of this war based economy.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:36 am#23 – You think KJI is all about “peace and love”?
NK is in desperate need of food, fuel and fertilizer. He is using his existing (however limited) nuclear arsenal, along with the threat of developing more advanced warhead delivery systems, as bargaining chips.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:37 amSure, just what the world needs. 11million North Koreans storming the DMZ. Great thinking, Brit. It didn’t take a streetmusician to figure that out now did it? Do we do this before we nuke Iran?
50 Ways to Dump the Dubya
July 9th, 2006 at 11:38 amWell, when our self-absorbed president makes a public annoucement referencing the “axis of evil” and names Iraq, Iran and North Korea as member nations of his delusion “axis of evil” and then we attack Iraq, it’s no surprise that North Korea wants to protect itself from an invasion.
A nuclear war may be financially profitable but only for a short time because there won’t be anything left to enjoy after nations get done bombing this planet into oblivion. The cold war kept “the bomb” in check because the nations with “the bomb” knew that using nuclear weapons mean completion destruction. If there are no people or resources left after bombing, there’s no value in trying to conquer another nation. War is all about profit.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:38 amBush refused, citing skepticism about the trustworthiness of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — July 9, 2006 @ 11:34 am
Is there no end to the hypocrisy of the man named George W Bush?
Just like the snake in the grass to distrust the worm…
July 9th, 2006 at 11:40 am#20 Doodle Bug – This current Congress pays absolutely no attention to its constituents. Their only concerns are gay marriage, abortion, flag burning and now immigration. If only they would focus on real issues the world could become a safer place.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:41 amGUESS WHAT DAY IT IS?
YEP, IT’S SUNDAY..YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS! GEORGE BUSH *DOESN’T* GET AN INTELLIGENCE BRIEFING TODAY.
Bush on Larry King the other day:
G. BUSH: One way to look at it is he in charge of the folks he was in charge of before, have they got training — you know, places, and a safe haven, the answer is no. We’ve got him on the run. And they’re hiding. I, of course, would like to bring him to justice but we’ll get him. We’re, we’re — it’s just a matter of persistence and patience. Every day I think about this.
KING: Getting…
G. BUSH: Every day — well, everyday I think about al Qaeda. Every day I think about protecting this country. I mean, every day. The thought has not — the thought has entered my mind and I think about it and talk to people about it and strategize about it every day.
KING: Obsessed with it.
G. BUSH: No. Well, in a way I guess you could say obsessed, but obsession is the wrong word. Doing my duty. That’s what the American people expect. They expect this government to protect them and so long as there’s an enemy lurking out there, I’m going to — I’m going to talk to people, work with people. I HAVE AN INTEL BRIEFING EVERY MORNING EXCEPT FOR SUNDAY.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/06/transcript.bush/
Hurrican Katrina hit New Orleans on a Sunday. The attack on Pearl Harbor happened on a Sunday. Bush can’t be troubled by trivial stuff like that on his Jesus day, damnit!
What an idiot. NOT just because he doesn’t care about Intel matters on a Sunday and thinks that he’s safe in his Jesus bubble but he’s also dumb enough to tell everyone in the world on national/international tv. By Bush revealing that, it helps the terrorists, the ‘lurkers’, the ‘plotters’, the ‘planners’, the ‘evil-doers’, the ‘Saddamists’, the ‘Rejectionists’. Why does Bush hate America? Why does he want to help the enemy? I’m sure his aides back stage smacked their own foreheads when the little Dictator let that slip out. Doh! Bush…what an absolute boob.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:42 amare less than adequate in confronting the real threat of the new century – Islamic terrorism.
Comment by Chase — July 9, 2006 @ 11:33 am
Do you have even one clue how irrationally paranoid you sound?
The terrorists on 9/11 were Muslims, yes, but so far, the Christian terrorist named Bush has already killed more people than those couple dozen Muslim terrorists. How would you like for the rest of the world to now consider Christian terrorists being harbored in teh United States, and use pre-emptive strikes to stop them from waging more terror?
You have no idea what a dangerous ideology to push. And if you keep pushing it, the next strike on America will ironically be just as pre-emptive… But from countries we cannot defeat.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:46 amWhat’s funny to me is how so many self-styled “progressives†jump to defend the most successful totalitarian regime in history. NK is a quintessential failed state – a Stalinist experiment, best characterized by unparalleled famine and a rejection of basic human rights.
Comment by Chase — July 9, 2006 @ 11:23 am
You need to get a better understanding of the English language. I haven’t read posts defending North Korea. What I did read was comments stating that attacking another country and starting another war is foolish and that those people wanting to start another war are ignorant cowards.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:47 am#22 – good idea.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:49 am35 – unbelievable – well said.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:50 amBut the danger from North Korea is not the rickety missiles that explode soon after launch. The real threat is the growing stockpile of plutonium that North Korea has been getting. The nuclear weapons manufactured by this plutonium can find their way into a U.S. city by many other, far less technically advanced means than an ICBM — such as smuggled aboard a container ship.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:56 amunbelievable – well said.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — July 9, 2006 @ 11:50 am
You’re doing quite well yourself :). I never miss any of your posts. You’ll make a great attorney. Hell, you already do. Glad to have you on our side.
I just don’t think the right is thinking. They are using fear to influence their decisions, never stopping to see the reality of the situation, or understand that we are a part of this world. We need to get along with our neighbors and stop isolating ourselves to the point that others won’t hesitate to pool together and free themselves from another Hitler (yes trolls, Bush is like Hitler. Replace “terrorists” in any of King George’s speeches with “Jews” and maybe you’ll get it). We are only 5% of the world’s population after all.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:57 amBush “War Is My Last Choice” the guys not even willing to talk
So what has the Bush administration done in its six years to address North Korea’s plutonium stockpile? Most notably, they scuttled the Agreed Framework, the one restraint on North Korea’s nuclear program. Since then, North Korea has restarted its 5 MW reactor at Yongbyon, and is now happily producing an additional 2-3 bombs worth of plutonium every year.
The problem of how to deal with North Korea’s missile test is not a military problem, it’s a policy problem. The U.S. has had ample time to develop a viable policy approach to North Korea’s nuclear program. Instead, the administration has vacillated between a half-hearted engagement policy that was always too little too late, and a hard-line stance based on the vague hope of finding the proper measure of sanctions that will cause the Kim Jong-il to capitulate, if not outright collapse.
When Bush took office in January 2001, he undertook a review of North Korean policy. It was estimated at the time that it might take as long as six months to complete the review and institute the new policy. Instead, it’s been six years, and we’re still waiting.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:57 amunbelievable – The real question is not how “irrationally paranoid” I sound – it’s how divorced from reality are you?
If you morally equivocate Islamic terrorists and the United States, you are beyond help. No nation in the world, none whatsoever, nor any combination of nations would consider a “pre-emptive” strike against the US. Why you think that’s possible is beyond me.
#36 – Personally I believe appeasing totalitarians (real totalitarians, that is) is tantamount to defending them. The power and might of the United States should be utilized to deliver the oppressed to liberty. That, my friend, is a progressive agenda.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:58 amWell, thank you General Hume. I am sure your sound military advice, grounded in experience of course, will ensure the same type of success being recognized in Iraq by your strategic minded administration.
sdk
July 9th, 2006 at 11:58 amG. BUSH: No. Well, in a way I guess you could say obsessed, but obsession is the wrong word. Doing my duty. That’s what the American people expect. They expect this government to protect them and so long as there’s an enemy lurking out there, I’m going to — I’m going to talk to people, work with people. I HAVE AN INTEL BRIEFING EVERY MORNING EXCEPT FOR SUNDAY.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:00 pmWhat a liar – he didn’t protect the American people… 9/11 happened on his watch… if he had paid attention and read the August 6 memo… . Bush’s statement is akin to closing the barnyard gate after all the farm animals dispersed. So what does Bush do on Sunday? As if the rest of the world takes a holiday on Sundays and waits for Bush to return to work on Monday. What a fool and anyone that supports him is even more foolish.
i’m guessing brit doesn’t read TP… or at least the Cirincione piece…
July 9th, 2006 at 12:02 pmtoo bad… maybe send it to him?
I’d like to ask the Repubs/Con loyalists these questions in regard to Bush and the Republicans (and future Presidents):
What is too corrupt?
July 9th, 2006 at 12:04 pmWhat is too criminal?
What is too dishonest?
What is too incompetent?
How many lies are too many lies?
When is one too unaccountable?
What it too much of a failure?
When does one discard the rule of law and the Constitution too much?
What would it take for you to impeach someone?
How many wars based on bogus intel lies are too many?
How many troops have to die in such a war before it’s too many?
What it too fascist?
What is too destructive to our position in the world?
this plutonium can find their way into a U.S. city by many other, far less technically advanced means than an ICBM — such as smuggled aboard a container ship.
Comment by Doodle Bug — July 9, 2006 @ 11:56 am
Exactly what I have been saying – the repukes refused my senators bill to have EVERY container checked before they enter our port cities! Too costly they said…or is it just a ruse?
July 9th, 2006 at 12:08 pmunbelievable – The real question is not how “irrationally paranoid†I sound – it’s how divorced from reality are you?
No, I had the question right. You’re paranoid. Though, you are divorced from reality as well.
If you morally equivocate Islamic terrorists and the United States, you are beyond help. No nation in the world, none whatsoever, nor any combination of nations would consider a “pre-emptive†strike against the US. Why you think that’s possible is beyond me.
I equate the morals of Osama who pre-emptively attacked the United States with George Bush who pre-emptively attacked Iraq. You used the wrong players in order to create a strawman that you could then attack. Though, it is quite possible that someone like the Chinese-Russian Alliance might mistake Bush for the entire United States. You’d better hope not.
Let’s see if you can wrap your brain around this one. It’s not what I perceive – it’s what the rest of the world perceives. And if they consider George Bush a terrorist, then you might get a bit does of reality first hand.
The power and might of the United States should be utilized to deliver the oppressed to liberty. That, my friend, is a progressive agenda.
Comment by Chase — July 9, 2006 @ 11:58 am
No. it’s a craven and tyrannical agenda. Violence only begets more violence.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:09 pmIdjit.
Comment by Leo Belldaere — July 9, 2006 @ 11:29 am
heh… haven’t heard that one in a while! i like it, always have…
July 9th, 2006 at 12:10 pm#42 – You must be referring to our success in delivering freedom to Irag. The family members of the 40+ Sunnis that were murdered today probably wouldn’t agree with you. Then again, you believe that the sacrifice is worth it and that dead Iraqis are just COLLATERAL DAMAGE and this acceptable in your war monger world. And it is you that is divorced from reality… there is no difference between fundementalist religions… the fundamentalist Christians are no different that the fundamentalists Muslims… they both preach HATE which eventually leads to MURDER. And besides:
July 9th, 2006 at 12:13 pmJesus was a Liberal persecuted by Conservatives. If you don’t believe that, go back to school and study WORLD religions.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool speaks just to say something.
—Plato
July 9th, 2006 at 12:14 pmthere is no difference between fundementalist religions… the fundamentalist Christians are no different that the fundamentalists Muslims… they both preach HATE which eventually leads to MURDER. And besides:
Comment by Coffins draped with flags — July 9, 2006 @ 12:13 pm
Exactly!
July 9th, 2006 at 12:16 pm#46 – Paige
Good questions and the answer is a stained blue dress.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:16 pmJust like I thought. Joe in 1999:
“We’re no longer worried about a thermonuclear war that would destroy
July 9th, 2006 at 12:20 pmthe very planet. We’re down to worrying about North Korea,
Iran, and Iraq, and that’s basically it. These problems are
manageable. Are they a threat? Yes. Is it a grave threat?
Yes.”
Just like I thought. Joe in 1999:
“We’re no longer worried about a thermonuclear war that would destroy
July 9th, 2006 at 12:20 pmthe very planet. We’re down to worrying about North Korea,
Iran, and Iraq, and that’s basically it. These problems are
manageable. Are they a threat? Yes. Is it a grave threat?
Yes.”
Comment by Chase — July 9, 2006 @ 11:58 am
Please enlighten us. When, if ever, in history has one country attacked another country for the sole purpose of bringing liberty to the popluation of the attacked country?
A progressive agenda would use the Peace Corps, not the Marine Corps. A progressive agenda would disarm all nuclear weapons. A progressive agenda would focus on wind and solar power. A progressive agenda would focus on education. A progressive agenda would focus on population (birth) control. A progressive agenda would focus on equality, not only of gender and race, but of economic opportunity and quality of life.
A progressive agenda would use peaceful means to achieve peace.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:21 pm40 – thank you.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:23 pm#18:
My comment said nothing about the merits of North Korea as society. You are conflating recognizing the reality of the military situation on the ground with approval for the regieme as an opportunity for name calling and the implication that those who wish to avoid a dangerous conflict are sympathetic to a detestable and loathsome dictatorship.
As far calling me “ye of little faith”, I accept this moniker. Wars are not won on faith.
Iraq is slipping into anarchy, Iran is resurgent, Afganastan is waiting us out so that it can return to its poppy-financed oligarcy, the US has gone from a budget surplus to a massive deficit in five short years, financed in large part by foreigners who sell us imported goods, our largest industries, whose plants equipped our men in previous wars, are eviserated (viz, Ford & General Motors), the income of the populace is down while basic commodities of living are inflating rapidly, basic functions of moving men and material must now be contracted out to corporate mercenaries, we have no allies of any significance, we have no domestic fuel reserves of any significance, we have no willingness to impose a draft and probably no ability to do so given the civil disobedience that would ensue, and we have no ability to prevent the destruction of Soeul, the capital and largest city of the country we were over there to protect in the first place, from annilation in such a conflict.
If your premise is that North Korea wants attention, I would suggest that giving it a pretext for war would not be a successful strategy and I still venture to say that should such a war ensue, we have much more to loose than North Korea does.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:25 pm“The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter…But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to use the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.”
Thomas Jefferson
July 9th, 2006 at 12:27 pmHas Hume ever even been in the military? What the hell makes all these chickenshit chickenhawks war experts…what a joke…someone should take him out and stomp a mudhole in his ass and leave him for the buzzards…what a fool.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:29 pmNotice how all the none military people want war but wont go. If nothing else Bush’s stupidity is show Americans how stupid some of these journalist are. Now but Brit in a uniform and he’ll cry mommy i want to go home. Maybe Brit is sucking up for Tony Snow’s job. Snow is a dummy and makes himself and the White House look like the fools they are.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:30 pm#42 You said: “#36 – Personally I believe appeasing totalitarians (real totalitarians, that is) is tantamount to defending them.”
You again confuse not wishing to provoke a nuclear conflict with a deranged dictatorship as approval for same.
Restraining North Korea by means other than a preemprive strike on their nuclear program, the whole purpose of this thread, is not tantamount to either appeasing or defending them.
The fact is that, left alone, the collapse of North Korea is inevitable. They will not last this decade. We need not provoke them, we need only undermine them.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:36 pmThe power and might of the United States should be utilized to deliver the oppressed to liberty.
Comment by Chase — July 9, 2006 @ 11:58 am
Great idea. When do we start?
Our current program of killing, raping, establishing corrupt puppet governments and stealing other people’s shit hasn’t worked out very well.
PS: Who manufuactures the “liberty-spreading” payloads for our Cruise missiles and 500lb. bombs? I’d like to read more about their design.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:36 pmChase,
So this means we’ve won the war on terror and can all rest easily now?
Like we did in Iraq?
July 9th, 2006 at 12:37 pmI still venture to say that should such a war ensue, we have much more to loose than North Korea does.
Comment by andrewg in little rock — July 9, 2006 @ 12:25 pm
Excellent!
July 9th, 2006 at 12:40 pmunbelievable,
Don’t click on Seixon’s link. He’s only here to get people to go to his website so Google will support him filling our blogs with his irrational blather while he hides innorway from Osama bin Laden, and the possibility of a draft.
Wow, you are quite a liar aren’t you. First of all, the link went to Wikipedia, not my blog. Second of all, I only get money through Google ads if you actually click on them. Third, you continue to lie about why I am in Norway. Fourth, I would not be safe from a draft by living in Norway. Fifth, the only reason you lied like you did was because the picture I linked to at Wikipedia was all too damning.
You have now, once again, been blown out of the water as nothing more than a liar. Congratulations.
Briseadh,
Do you mean how did it ever get to the point where the U.S. and N. Korea actually attempted diplomacy to solve problems?
Yeah. Kim Jong Il, and the Taliban, loved Clinton’s diplomacy. They took them for a ride, is what they did. While the Clinton administration thought they were getting somewhere, the North Koreans and the Taliban fooled them completely.
North Korea suckered the Clinton administration into giving them nuclear reactors and other help. This allowed them to move ahead with their nuclear weapons program.
The Taliban kept telling the Clinton administration that they’d give up Osama bin Laden if they would only give them evidence of his wrongdoing, which the Clinton administration did, but they kept on fooling them over and over again into thinking they were actually getting somewhere.
This is again the danger of having naive peace doves in power – they will allow our enemies to stab them in the back without even being aware of it.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:40 pmOne of the biggest weakness of our present misleadership is the inability to engage in diplomacy. Those who publicly advocate aggression against other nations should be prosecuted for incitement to murder.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:42 pmSeixon,
Again, I see you’ve addressed me, and again, I refuse to read it. You are incapable of debating issues, turning everything into a personal or ad hominem attack.
As long as you are hiding in Norway from Osama, you really have no credibility around here anyway.
Go get a life. You’re too young to be so paranoid.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:45 pmLol Seixon > you claimed on another TP thread that you have Norwegian citizenship, therefore you can use that to not get drafted by the United States > plus you live their presently, so they will NOT come to get you for the draft in Norway!
July 9th, 2006 at 12:45 pmSeixon is serf to the ‘monarchy’
Just shutup Seixon you puppet slave.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:45 pmBriseadh,
A progressive agenda would use the Peace Corps, not the Marine Corps.
Yeah, I bet Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Il are shaking in their boots. The Peace Corps! Eeeek!
A progressive agenda would disarm all nuclear weapons.
How? Oh wait, I forgot, you are stuck in a utopian world that does not exist. Sorry.
A progressive agenda would use peaceful means to achieve peace.
Yeah. Tell Hitler all about it. I’m sure ya could have stopped him with your peace talk. Oh, and Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Il, and all the rest. I’m sure they’re interested. ;) ;)
July 9th, 2006 at 12:46 pmYeah. Tell Hitler all about it. I’m sure ya could have stopped him with your peace talk. Oh, and Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Il, and all the rest. I’m sure they’re interested. ;) ;)
Comment by Seixon — July 9, 2006 @ 12:46 pm
Hitler was one of you wacko Arian Socians,
July 9th, 2006 at 12:48 pmHow? Oh wait, I forgot, you are stuck in a utopian world that does not exist. Sorry.
And your stuck in a welfare state and the King owns ‘you’
July 9th, 2006 at 12:50 pmChase
If you morally equivocate Islamic terrorists and the United States, you are beyond help.
And why would not anyone outside of USA do so? We foreigners have no vested interest in patriotic chest-beating and “USA right-or-wrong” type of self-delusions. To us it looks simple: as a result of over 50 years of imbecillic foreign policy in Middle East, sponsoring endles state-terror and conquest by Isreal resulting in untold suffering of millions upon millions of Arabs, combined with discrediting of any secular force within Arab communities as being a “communist” threat, aiding and financing of wacko radicals like Osama in order to thward the said “communist” threat, all the crazed, desperate and completely wacko chickens came home to roost. In response the USA went totally loco and proceeded to invade Iraq, to bring terror and carnage on a scale previously unseen there while various pundits thuped bibles and salivated about “war with Islam” on FOX. And then the very morons responsible for all of these calamities dare to sanctimoniously bluster about lack of “moral equivalency” with the very lunatics they helped to create on the other side.
No nation in the world, none whatsoever, nor any combination of nations would consider a “pre-emptive†strike against the US. Why you think that’s possible is beyond me.
Only a Republican American would be so self-absorbed as not to realize that there always many nations with that policy to begin with (i.e. the Warsaw Pact) and that even now an increasing number of people in even the so-called “allied” nations are wondering how do we stop this increasingly insane, out-of-control rouge state-terror nation USA has become, where bible-thumping, science-denying, war-profiteerinfg “Christian” crusaders are apparently a leading political force. It is not yet at the “pre-emptive” nuclear strike stage … yet … but the re-alignment of global political forces is very real nonetheless to anyone who cares to look.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:51 pmSo, Speaking of Norway, why don’t the neocons tell us why a country that has a higher standard of living and higher quality of life than the United States, with equality for women, low violence rates, cleaner natural resources, is Industrialized with national healthcare and high levels of health, and is significantly less religious than most of the world (only 3-5% attend regular religious services per a link one of you once provided) – and their contemporaries like Sweden, Austria, Canada and Germany are not being targetted by Islamic terrorists? Are not attacking other countries pre-emptively? Are not hated by most of the world? Hmmm? I’ve just gotta hear this…
July 9th, 2006 at 12:52 pmunbelievable,
Again, I see you’ve addressed me, and again, I refuse to read it. You are incapable of debating issues, turning everything into a personal or ad hominem attack.
Wow. Wow. OK. Wow. Let’s read your comment that I was addressing:
Don’t click on Seixon’s link. He’s only here to get people to go to his website so Google will support him filling our blogs with his irrational blather while he hides innorway from Osama bin Laden, and the possibility of a draft.
Yeah. I turned everything into personal or ad hominem attack? No, you did. Not only that, you lied your ass off. The link was to Wikipedia, not my blog. You are a liar proven without any doubt right here.
As long as you are hiding in Norway from Osama, you really have no credibility around here anyway.
Ah, so anyone in Norway cannot discuss at Think Progress. Poor Brian McCoughlan, he’s going to have to find another place to post too.
Go get a life. You’re too young to be so paranoid.
Paranoid? About what? You lied. Plain and simple. Get a life yourself. I post a link to Wikipedia, and you claim I linked to my blog. How pathetic are you?
Randal,
Lol Seixon > you claimed on another TP thread that you have Norwegian citizenship, therefore you can use that to not get drafted by the United States > plus you live their presently, so they will NOT come to get you for the draft in Norway!
Once again you have absolutely no clue about what you are saying. I already showed you this earlier, and you still haven’t learned. I am obligated to both Norway and the USA as a dual citizen. I showed you this from the State Department website.
Just like unbelievable, you lie, lie, then when taken for a lie, lie again.
We were discussing North Korea, but suddenly you guys have made it all about me again. Shameless partisan hack goons is what you are.
Poor unbelievable, couldn’t deal with the reality of this picture so she had to go lie about it.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:52 pmPost 73 Cool > Seixon claimed on here he wants the monarchy abolished in Norway, which the King would be very upset about if he found out > hint > lol.
July 9th, 2006 at 12:52 pmare less than adequate in confronting the real threat of the new century – Islamic terrorism.
Comment by Chase — July 9, 2006 @ 11:33 am
Do you have even one clue how irrationally paranoid you sound?
The terrorists on 9/11 were Muslims, yes, but so far, the Christian terrorist named Bush has already killed more people than those couple dozen Muslim terrorists. How would you like for the rest of the world to now consider Christian terrorists being harbored in teh United States, and use pre-emptive strikes to stop them from waging more terror?
You have no idea what a dangerous ideology to push. And if you keep pushing it, the next strike on America will ironically be just as pre-emptive… But from countries we cannot defeat.
Comment by unbelievable
July 9th, 2006 at 12:54 pm=================
I couldn’t agree more,unbelievable.
Bush’s policies are a catalyst for terrorism.
Comment by Seixon — July 9, 2006 @ 12:40 pm
I do not espouse having “naive” peace doves in power.
There is a saying, “keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.”
We have isolated ourselves from both.
Your path leads to mutual self-assured destruction.
The one path the world has yet to try was suggested by the son of a carpenter some 2,000 years ago. Or are you suggesting He, too, was a naive peace dove?
July 9th, 2006 at 12:57 pmSeixon is a slave to the king and the church of norway [Catholic basically] and IT thinks that is a perfect society.
Ya know Seixon, America has alot of problems, But I won’t, nor many people here, of all religions..would ever let the ’state’ or church and their non-existent ‘utopia’ run our lives.
You in effect , Seixon, are a communist.
Or should I say Comenius?
July 9th, 2006 at 12:58 pmIf you morally equivocate Islamic terrorists and the United States, you are beyond help. No nation in the world, none whatsoever, nor any combination of nations would consider a “pre-emptive†strike against the US. Why you think that’s possible is beyond me.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:00 pm=================
Chase,It’s just possible,that some cause-and-effect scenarios are indeed beyond you.
but the re-alignment of global political forces is very real nonetheless to anyone who cares to look.
Comment by FactsOnly — July 9, 2006 @ 12:51 pm
Thanks for helping to validate this point. You not being an American saying it should hopefully weigh heavier with people who do not seem to think beyond their own viewpoints.
I am sad that my country is filled with imbeciles like Chase and Seixon and their ilk who adhere with blind faith to the notion that their god is blessing just them. They will be, as you point out, the lynchpin in the end of a once brilliant and lucid dream for Democracy and freedom. Guess that’s why Seixon has already left the country. He’s not willing to stand behind his own violent ideology.
Until the average American understands that we are just as suceptible to attack from allied nations, nuts like Brit Hume will continue to run their mouths and have an audience.
As Socrates once said “I am not a citizen of Athens, nor of Greece – but I am a citizen of the world.”
July 9th, 2006 at 1:01 pm81 – well put, Steve
July 9th, 2006 at 1:02 pmSeixon go post elsewhere if you cannot take being attacked on here for defending that creep Bush! unbelievable is 100 times more intelligent than you are at age 24/25! Never in my life have I seen someone your age so arrogant > shame on you!
You live in Norway, claim duel citizenship, but then claim the US can draft you? Boy you are dumb, because you can avoid the draft! Since you believe in the Iraq fiasco, how about you join up now to go fight there!
July 9th, 2006 at 1:02 pmCool Breeze,
Thanks for the ad hominem attacks. It’s all you dupes have. I rest my case. PS. You and others have no clue about Norway, so stop feigning knowledge.
unbelievable,
So, Speaking of Norway, why don’t the neocons tell us why a country that has a higher standard of living and higher quality of life than the United States, with equality for women, low violence rates, cleaner natural resources, is Industrialized with national healthcare and high levels of health, and is significantly less religious than most of the world
First of all, Norway has huge amounts of oil wealth that allow them to have all of these things, not to mention income tax levels that would make even you faint. Second, “equality for women” sounds hilarious especially when I watched TV last week where the host was talking about how Norwegian women haven’t really made any advances in the job market since the 1990s, that they still have lower wages compared to men and that this was a problem. Third, low violence rates? Sure, but what about the criminal rate? The crime rate in Norway on various things are higher than the USA, such as car theft. Fourth, cleaner natural resources? You’re comparing a country the size of Norway with the United States??? LOL. Fifth, I would speculate that the low religious activity in Norway is connected to the high standard of living.
(only 3-5% attend regular religious services per a link one of you once provided) – and their contemporaries like Sweden, Austria, Canada and Germany are not being targetted by Islamic terrorists?
Ehhh… Did you miss the Canadian terror plot? Did you miss the fact that 9/11 terrorists passed through Germany? Did you miss the fact that NATO is patrolling the World Cup due to terrorism concerns? Did you realize that the former leader of the terrorist group Ansar al-Islam has been here in Norway for years, commenting just a few weeks ago that he was going to Iraq to fight for Osama bin Laden?
Besides that, I’ll tell you why these countries are not being targetted to the same degree as the USA, it is quite simple. The USA is the largest democratic Western country in the entire world. The bigger the target, the bigger the pay-off.
Are not attacking other countries pre-emptively? Are not hated by most of the world? Hmmm? I’ve just gotta hear this…
That would still be the case even if the USA had not meddled in Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, and all other places. The USA is the largest Christian, Western nation in the entire world. For that reason alone it will be targetted by terrorists.
As far as North Korea goes, who else are they going to go after? Russia? China? No, you see, both those countries helped Kim Jong Il get where he is today. Most of his nuclear program is based on the help of those two countries. China helped North Korea against the USA over 50 years ago in the Korean War.
The only real target Kim Jong Il would benefit from going after is Japan and the United States. Has Japan done anything since WWII by the way? No? So why are they also being targetted by NoKo?
Randal,
Post 73 Cool > Seixon claimed on here he wants the monarchy abolished in Norway, which the King would be very upset about if he found out > hint > lol.
I seriously doubt the King really cares what one person in Norway thinks.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:04 pmUnbelievable (68), I’ll help you out. I started reading it before I realized it was all insupportable rant I’d seen before. He said you couldn’t possibly have clicked on his link, because it went to Wikipedia and not his site. Then he said that when you clicked on his link….oh, wait a minute. Something doesn’t make sense…
July 9th, 2006 at 1:07 pmHe also responded to Briseadh, and finally admitted that Clinton wasn’t responsible for 9/11.
Chase,It’s just possible,that some cause-and-effect scenarios are indeed beyond you.
Comment by Steve53 — July 9, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
Seems so… Sad. We used to be the most educated nation in the world. But the most ignorant posts in this thread are all coming from supporters of the Bush Regime that is a violent and ignorant lot.
We on the left are running out of time to stop them. I maintain that ballots are preferable to bullets. We just have to hope that ballots are still a valid option…
July 9th, 2006 at 1:10 pmBriseadh,
The one path the world has yet to try was suggested by the son of a carpenter some 2,000 years ago. Or are you suggesting He, too, was a naive peace dove?
What happened to him, by the way? If you think you’re scoring a point by talking about Jesus, you couldn’t be more wrong. I’m an atheist. I’m sorry if the scores of liars around here made you believe otherwise.
Cool Breeze,
Let me know when you have anything other than ad hominem to come with, OK? I’m an atheist and would have the Norwegian monarchy abolished if it were up to me. You are shooting blanks buddy. Give it a rest.
unbelievable (liar),
I am sad that my country is filled with imbeciles like Chase and Seixon and their ilk who adhere with blind faith to the notion that their god is blessing just them.
I don’t have a god, since there exists no god. So… I’m not quite understanding what you’re trying to say here, other than pidgeon-holing me in the attempt to smear me with nonsense.
They will be, as you point out, the lynchpin in the end of a once brilliant and lucid dream for Democracy and freedom. Guess that’s why Seixon has already left the country. He’s not willing to stand behind his own violent ideology.
Yes, allowing terrorists and genocidal dictators to decide things is definitely the start of a brilliant and lucid dream for democracy and freedom. Good one. I have a violent ideology? Since when? Oh, right, you’re a liar. I almost forgot.
Until the average American understands that we are just as suceptible to attack from allied nations, nuts like Brit Hume will continue to run their mouths and have an audience.
We are just as susceptible to attack from allied nations??? Wow. So NoKo and France are equally likely to nuke us? You were right Randal, unbelievable is waaay more intelligent than I am. She can’t even see a difference between NoKo and France. Brilliance, I bow down to you.
Randal,
Seixon go post elsewhere if you cannot take being attacked on here for defending that creep Bush!
Where have I defended Bush at all on here? Not once. L-I-A-R.
unbelievable is 100 times more intelligent than you are at age 24/25! Never in my life have I seen someone your age so arrogant > shame on you!
She is more intelligent than I am, yet when I link to a picture hosted at Wikipedia of Albright having cocktails with Kim Jong Il, she lies and claims that the link goes to my blog and tells everyone not to click on it. Mhm, pull my other leg, you cheerleader.
You live in Norway, claim duel citizenship, but then claim the US can draft you? Boy you are dumb, because you can avoid the draft!
No, I can’t. I have already proven this to you, but you are too dumb to actually learn anything, apparently.
Since you believe in the Iraq fiasco, how about you join up now to go fight there!
Sure, as long as you are willing to go live in an Iraq with Saddam Hussein in power.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:14 pmI started reading it before I realized it was all insupportable rant I’d seen before.
Typical Seixxon, he seems to naively think he can repeat the propaganda enough in here and we’ll all succumb. Doesn’t realize he’s in over his head.
He said you couldn’t possibly have clicked on his link, because it went to Wikipedia and not his site. Then he said that when you clicked on his link….oh, wait a minute. Something doesn’t make sense…
Not make sense? That sounds like Seixon alright…
He also responded to Briseadh, and finally admitted that Clinton wasn’t responsible for 9/11.
Comment by Lily — July 9, 2006 @ 1:07 pm
Thanks for the recap Lily. I’m sure you’ll go wanna vomit now :)
July 9th, 2006 at 1:14 pmunbelievable
They will be, as you point out, the lynchpin in the end of a once brilliant and lucid dream for Democracy and freedom.
That is the saddest part of all, for there are many, many people accross the world, myself included, who admired the US democracy and the true genius of the Founding Fathers in setting that system up. I would say it pains us even more to see it all come unglued in, pretty much, a fascist-theocratic-greed flavoured disaster, because we all held that dream to such a high standard and if it can fall to such a low-brow band of barbarians .. well nothing noble is safe.
I think the root of all of the disaster is in arrogance and hubris, after so many successes, some Americans got to believe themselves to be special, “chosen” and started to think that they can do no wrong. That their freedoms and propserite are to be taken for granted and that they can take liberties with security and safety of anyone abroad, as all of them “furriners” are, by definition, non-entities.
Case in point: when an American soldier dies in Iraq, his name is published, there are eulogies etc. But if an American patrol kills a pregnant mother an her husband in some gory “accident” leaving her children who sat in the back of the car soaked in blood and crying helplessly on the street, that is not even a news item, never you mind Americans knowing their names. Iraqis, being non-American are simply items of inventory, non-people, props on the stage of the Glorious Crusade.
I think until Americans begin to truly identify with the suffering of others accross the world, and not in a phony, politically convenient way to drum up support for some military mis-adventure (as if any of these warhawks ever gave a rats ass about welfare of any Iraqi) but in a real, human way, until then America will keep sliding down into more depravity and self-important arrogance, believing itself the chosen and pure and always right by definition, until the very bitter end.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:19 pmi think the whole world would breath a deep sigh of relief upon seeing a diplomatic, graciously smiling GWB in a toast of understanding and agreement with any of the leaders he has chosen to threaten and then decided to instead make peace with… i know i would…
July 9th, 2006 at 1:20 pmDeterrance and containment are decidedly pre-1989 doctrines who, while still applicable in some situations, are less than adequate in confronting the real threat of the new century – Islamic terrorism.
Comment by Chase #25
Chased,
Your (and your ilk’s) problem is…
…you haven’t a clue who the REAL enemy is…
…it is the corrupt, TREASONOUS, incompetent, diabolical right wing Bushite government that you voted for…
…witness the latest FBI triumph…
…”INTERNET terrorists” are arrested for “plotting” to do something (blow up the Holland Tunnel to flood Manhattan) that from an engineering standpoint…
…is all but IMPOSSIBLE!
…there is Asin (sic) Hamud in custody in Lebanon who one look at this guy shows a “special” individual…
…this latest “FBI foils al Qaeda plot” is nothing more than MORE election year posturing by Bushites…
…an extension of the Florida “terrorist wannabe” hoax!
…Dubai Ports World International still owns and controls your ports…
…these so-called internet chat rooms (like Al Qaeda 2.0) for terrorist sympathizers and wannabes are nothing more than CIA honey traps for idiots…
…and Chased and his TRAITOROUS inbred Bushite worshipping accomplices are being supplied with more right wing talking points…
…to use for the consumption of the most intellectually challenged among us…
…the “We haven’t had an attack on American soil since 9/11/We’re fighting them over there to keep from fighting ‘em over here” crowd…
…nukes won’t help you in the long run, because your punishment is going to be economic…
…look around your homes, schools and neighborhoods…
…if terrorists wanted to kill PEOPLE there are ample “soft targets” that they could attack…
…they want to bleed you where they know it will hurt you right wing al Cracker fascists most…
…by bankrupting you…
…one thing the “terrorists” (from Bin Laden to L’il Kim) have come to realize…
…is the fact that people like Chased and the right wing inbreds don’t care about their children or other so-called loved ones…
…they care MUCH MORE about the almighty Bushite dollar…
…and one thing the TRUE enemy (Bushites) realize is that THEY only need to give the Chased among us phantom enemies…
…and THEY (Bushites) can reap the profits of fear ’til the idiots wake up…
…IF they wake up…
as for Brit Hume, he’s nothing more than a Bushite propagandist/yellow journalism war profiteering media who*e…
…with ZERO relevance or credibility…
July 9th, 2006 at 1:22 pmLOL Saddam is no longer in power and I am against war, unless the United States is directly attacked and invaded! Iraq NEVER attacked the US, but Bush wanted to control their OIL!
All who promote war, must go fight in it, so get going Norwegian!
July 9th, 2006 at 1:24 pm#46 – What is too corrupt?
What is too criminal?
What is too dishonest?
What is too incompetent?
How many lies are too many lies?
When is one too unaccountable?
What it too much of a failure?
When does one discard the rule of law and the Constitution too much?
What would it take for you to impeach someone?
How many wars based on bogus intel lies are too many?
How many troops have to die in such a war before it’s too many?
What it too fascist?
What is too destructive to our position in the world?
Comment by Paige
Great post, as usual, Paige. I have one more question for the Repub/Con loyalists:
What will make you stand up and say NO?
July 9th, 2006 at 1:24 pm# 15. unbelievable:
Thank you for reminding me about Seixon’s web-site,and for putting it in bold letters.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:25 pmI think I’ll go there now,read some,and then click on some of the great advertisements that he has there.
Thanks again.
FactsOnly,
Case in point: when an American soldier dies in Iraq, his name is published, there are eulogies etc. But if an American patrol kills a pregnant mother an her husband in some gory “accident†leaving her children who sat in the back of the car soaked in blood and crying helplessly on the street, that is not even a news item, never you mind Americans knowing their names. Iraqis, being non-American are simply items of inventory, non-people, props on the stage of the Glorious Crusade.
What? We hear stuff like this on the news all the time. They don’t name each Iraqi because, well, they are Iraqis. They name US soldiers because they are American. You know, just like us. The foreign press almost never names US soldiers who have been killed, nor do I expect the Iraqi press (yes, they do actually have a press now) to name our soldiers either. But I bet they name their Iraqis who have been killed.
You’re inventing a “problem” where there is none because you are too caught up in causing problems rather than just think logically for two seconds.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:27 pmToes: “These guys remind me of General Curtis LeMay.”
July 9th, 2006 at 1:30 pm- – I was thinking more in the mold of Sterling Hayden’s, Brig. Gen. Jack D. Ripper in “Dr. Strangelove.”
Randal,
LOL Saddam is no longer in power and I am against war, unless the United States is directly attacked and invaded! Iraq NEVER attacked the US, but Bush wanted to control their OIL!
Saddam is no longer in power due to the war you were against. Bush doesn’t control Iraqi oil, Iraqis do. Oh well, it’s no use telling you anything. You fantasize about everything and create the world around you instead of just using your eyes.
All who promote war, must go fight in it, so get going Norwegian!
I’m amazed by this brand new precedent. So, did your parents fight in WWII? If not, does that mean they opposed taking down Hitler? Explain this to me.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:31 pmFirst they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:34 pm–Mahatma Gandhi
Liberty and democracy become unholy when their hands are dyed red with innocent blood.
~Mahatma Gandhi
July 9th, 2006 at 1:38 pmbecause we all held that dream to such a high standard and if it can fall to such a low-brow band of barbarians .. well nothing noble is safe.
They sort of predicted this… I think it was Franklin who specifically pointed to the ultimate failure of their experient being authored and carried out by theocratic fascists… Too bad we didn’t heed their warnings to be vigilant. The American people grew lazy in teh last 230 years to the point of ignorance, and are now not much better than the cowering savages they once criticized…
that they can take liberties with security and safety of anyone abroad, as all of them “furriners†are, by definition, non-entities.
No doubt, as Chase so arrogantly demonstrated with his comment about no one would dare attack us. Pride goeth before a fall…
Iraqis, being non-American are simply items of inventory, non-people, props on the stage of the Glorious Crusade.
In reality, only to those who buy into the Bush Regime’s nonsense. Maybe I am too optimistic to believe that more and more people are beginning to see this, and are not thrilled about it. Most Americans are actually sickened by the idea of killing innocent civilians. Unfortunately, that gets reported in the news even less than the death of the innocents. That most of us are appalled by these actions and neither condone it nor wish it to occur.
believing itself the chosen and pure and always right by definition, until the very bitter end.
Comment by FactsOnly — July 9, 2006 @ 1:19 pm
As people like Chase and Seixon so frequently demonstrate. All while avoiding Iraq themselves.
I’ve heard that the number of American expats is growing. We just don’t keep records to know by how much – but as time goes by, I think it will become obvious.
Thanks for your rational observations. It’s always great to get an impartial opinion form someone with a non-American perspective. If only the right would value what people like you and Bruce and British Gary and Doodle Bug are saying. It makes a lot of sense. But as you pointed out, no matter how intelligent your arguement – unless you are one of them, you are not valid (not even American – but neocon).
July 9th, 2006 at 1:38 pmSeixon > you are at the prime age to serve in the armed forces of the United States, but instead you live in Norway, but you do think the Iraq fiasco is a great moral endeavor, so go fight in that war or you are a hypocrite! My father was not of age to fight in WWII, but his 2 older brothers did so! One fought under General Patton and was wounded in Germany, and the other one refused to carry a gun, but was an accountant for the military!
Bush is the one who attacked Iraq, not Saddam attacking the US, so in this case Bush acts more like Hitler when he attacked Poland! The Iragis NO longer control their OIL, but I know you want to believe otherwise > lol.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:43 pmI object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.
~Mahatma Gandhi
July 9th, 2006 at 1:45 pmAre you just to stupid to know how stupid you are?
Comment by dixie blood — July 9, 2006 @ 1:44 pm
Pretty much.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:49 pmdixie blood,
Trying to browbeat me with the actions of others doesn’t work. I wouldn’t have anything against Nightline reading up the names of our fallen heroes, as long as they didn’t do so every single night. Doing so when 1,000, 2,000, etc are dead would be a good way to remember their sacrifices. Just because Republicans disagreed with their decision to do so does not make them fascist. They have a right to an opinion just like you, and you calling them a fascist for having an opinion shows that you are closer to a fascist than they are.
Was I home schooled in Alabama? No, not in the slightest. Wrong side of the country, wrong type of schooling. In fact, 100% wrong.
Calling me stupid a bunch of times does nothing to further your views of the world, and only makes you look, well, stupid.
unbelievable,
When are you going to apologize for lying profusely about me?
Randal,
Removing a dictator is like Hitler attacking Poland? Alrighty. The Iraqis “no longer” control their oil? Saddam Hussein had control of it before. Do you consider him “the Iraqis”? Please tell me otherwise.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:51 pmThis is the man the neocons support:
“I think — tide turning — see, as I remember — I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of — it’s easy to see a tide turn — did I say those words?”
—George W. Bush, asked if the tide was turning in Iraq, Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006
July 9th, 2006 at 1:52 pmSeixon
What? We hear stuff like this on the news all the time.
I specifically picked a news item which was not shown originally on the US TV – it was shot by a BBC crew and ignored by the US media until the uproar in Europe exceeded some imaginary threshold finally forcing the US networks to mention this incident (very briefly I believe).
They don’t name each Iraqi because, well, they are Iraqis.Yes, they did not follow up, no “in depth” reporting on their families, how the orphaned kids are doing etc. In fairness, today this is no longer even possible, everything even smacking of US being so universally hated in Iraq that it would be near impossible for a journalist to even get close to interviewing someone outside of the Green Zone without a major insurgent battle following suit.
The foreign press almost never names US soldiers who have been killed,
They do. They also run stories on their families etc.
You’re inventing a “problem†where there is none because you are too caught up in causing problems rather than just think logically for two seconds.Oh yes, it was the Swedes, Norwegians and the Swiss who caused all the mess in the Middle East for the last 50 years. Not the US foreign policy, trillions of dolalrs and mountains of weaponry shipped there. No sireee! You are onto us, we’ve been “causing problems” there and noone has caught us before genius sleuth Seixon exposed us. We’re busted.
July 9th, 2006 at 1:53 pm“The point now is how do we work together to achieve important goals. And one such goal is a democracy in Germany.”
—George W. Bush, D.C., May 5, 2006
July 9th, 2006 at 1:54 pm“He was a state sponsor of terror. In other words, the government had declared, you are a state sponsor of terror.”
—George W. Bush, on Saddam Hussein, Manhattan, Kan., Jan. 23, 2006
July 9th, 2006 at 1:56 pmHow can anyone with a brain support this buffoon?
“I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam Hussein, you’re a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat, as far as I-concerned.”
—George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005
July 9th, 2006 at 1:57 pm“Wow! Brazil is big.”
—George W. Bush, after being shown a map of Brazil by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brasilia, Brazil, Nov. 6, 2005
July 9th, 2006 at 1:59 pmDo the Norwegian people control their OIL? The King and the Prime Minister decide who the OIL is sold to, and I heard some royalties are paid into a fund for Norway’s needs in the future, after the OIL has been depleted! Saddam did the same, but like all dictators he pocketed some of the profits!
Seixon > tell us about the NEW seed depository that Norway just built inside a mountain > your government believes that crops might fail, or perhaps global warming catastrophe, so seeds are being frozen in a vault! I heard that Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, and Finland are also involved in the project?!
July 9th, 2006 at 2:00 pmFactsOnly,
All you’re doing is playing the anecdote game. I didn’t say “never” I said “almost never”. I realize that Think Progress commenters only read about half the words in each post since they are seemingly illiterate. Hopefully you’re not one of them.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pm“One of the most meaningful things that’s happened to me since I’ve been the governor — the president — governor — president. Oops. Ex-governor. I went to Bethesda Naval Hospital to give a fellow a Purple Heart, and at the same moment I watched him—get a Purple Heart for action in Iraq — and at that same — right after I gave him the Purple Heart, he was sworn in as a citizen of the United States — a Mexican citizen, now a United States citizen.”
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 9, 2004
July 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pmWhy don’t you find out? Do you have the courage to write your King and tell him your thoughts?
I would like to see the King’s reply.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:01 pm“Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling.”
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004
July 9th, 2006 at 2:02 pmTrolls, this is the man you are following blindly:
“More Muslims have died at the hands of killers than — I say more Muslims — a lot of Muslims have died — I don’t know the exact count — at Istanbul. Look at these different places around the world where there’s been tremendous death and destruction because killers kill.”
—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004
July 9th, 2006 at 2:04 pmBriseadh,
Sorry, I don’t waste my time doing things that will have absolutely no effect. I know you progressives love doing things that are completely useless, but I don’t. As if I would actually get a reply from the King, anyways. He’s getting old and senile anyways.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:05 pm“Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country.”
—George W. Bush, interview with Al Arabiya Television, May 5, 2004
July 9th, 2006 at 2:07 pmOnce again American troops are being charged with committing atrocities against Iraqis…
…four or five soldiers are being charged with the rape and murder of an iraqi girl and her family…
…If Slobodan Milosevic, Liberia’s former dictator Taylor, and saddam Hussein are/were to be held to account for the criminal actions of THEIR soldiers…
…are George W. Bush, L’il Dick Cheney, Dummy Rumsfeld at al. accountable (under international law) for Abu Grabass, renditioning and torture, mass murder…
… and any of a number of OTHER atrocities in the prosecution of this illegal invasion and current OCCUPATION?
July 9th, 2006 at 2:09 pmComment by FactsOnly — July 9, 2006 @ 1:19 pm
Some of us already do, FactsOnly, some of us already do. Cindy Sheehan is a good example.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:10 pmunbelievable, where are you finding all these Bushisms? You’re on a roll!
July 9th, 2006 at 2:11 pmRandal,
Do the Norwegian people control their OIL? The King and the Prime Minister decide who the OIL is sold to, and I heard some royalties are paid into a fund for Norway’s needs in the future, after the OIL has been depleted! Saddam did the same, but like all dictators he pocketed some of the profits!
Wow, I thought you couldn’t go any lower, but then you go and compare Saddam Hussein to the King and Prime Minister of Norway. You really outdid yourself this time sir.
The King and Prime Minister do not decide who the oil is sold to. Norway has an array of oil companies, most of which are partly or fully state-owned. Norway has an oil fund, yes, to save money for when one anticipates that the oil supply will run dry and Norway will once again have to support themselves on something other than oil.
Saddam did not do “the same” as this, in any shape, way, or form. Saddam Hussein used the oil wealth of Iraq for his own personal pleasure, used it to buy weapons, used it to create WMD programs and WMDs, used it to acquire nuclear technology from France to build nuclear weapons, and used it to turn Iraq into a Stalinist police state. He also used it to bribe UN officials and foreign politicians (such as Galloway) to do his bidding abroad.
The fact that you would even think of comparing Saddam Hussein to the leadership of Norway shows you are completely shallow of intellect.
Seixon > tell us about the NEW seed depository that Norway just built inside a mountain > your government believes that crops might fail, or perhaps global warming catastrophe, so seeds are being frozen in a vault! I heard that Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, and Finland are also involved in the project?!
Have a link? Haven’t heard about this at all.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:13 pmSeixon
All you’re doing is playing the anecdote game. I didn’t say “never†I said “almost neverâ€.
Perheaps. To my discredit, I did respond to your dishonest, unproveable assertion of “almost never”. My fault really, I should have realized your conceited attempt at having it both ways. What you did is an old “debating” tactic employed by professional political hacks in the absence of definitive statistical data, whereby one adds an adjective of “almost” to “none” in order to create an illusion that “none” is the actual state of affairs and yet to prevent any counter-argument, since no matter how many examples to the contrary are presented, the hack would just simply dishonestly claim that they all represent the “almost” part.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:16 pmSeixon > tell us about the…
Comment by Jay Randal — July 9, 2006 @ 2:00 pm
I seem to recall this Jay Randal, and others, promising to ignore the posts of Seixon, the bloviating troll. Now he asks for MORE.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:16 pmSome of you are confusing, at best.
curious,
What, you didn’t know that the Think Progress goon squad are a bunch of hypocritical liars who say one thing and do another? Stick around and learn.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:22 pmwhere are you finding all these Bushisms? You’re on a roll!
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — July 9, 2006 @ 2:11 pm
I’d say enjoy, but I’m not sure that is possible…
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm
July 9th, 2006 at 2:22 pmFactsOnly – I hope to see more of you on TP. Your posts are awesome.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:24 pmComment by Seixon — July 9, 2006 @ 2:05 pm
So, now you are able to predict the future?
Do you not realize that everything you do has an effect?
Or are you afraid of what the King might do?
Do you lack the courage of your convictions?
Are you self-censoring your discontent with the Monarchy out of fear?
You ‘talk the talk’ why do you not ‘walk the walk?’
Or are you merely another chickenhawk?
Remember, mankind has progressed a long ways since Kings used torture against any who spoke out against the crown. Oh, wait, that’s right, you favor the use of torture. You don’t really think your King would torture you until you saw the error of your ways, do you? I know it’s been years and years since that sort of thing has happened, but with people (like you) calling for the use of torture against ‘terrorists’ who knows, maybe someone who speaks out against a monarch just might be labeled a ‘terrorist.’
Care to set that wheel in motion?
July 9th, 2006 at 2:26 pmSeixon > you live in Norway and the seed vault thing was reported even in our press, so you seem to ignore current news in your country?! I never compared Saddam to your King, but you said you do not like him and you said he is senile too >lol.
I have to go work in my vegetable/berry garden, so will be back on posting tonight! Bye all and have a nice day!
Curious > you would be wise to mind your own business on here!
July 9th, 2006 at 2:27 pmTP posters 55 Seixon 0
dixie blood just made it 56…
July 9th, 2006 at 2:27 pmdixie blood,
If they disagreed they could have just said so. They actually tried to stop the flow of information. They went after ABC. Sounds pretty fascists to me!
Isn’t that exactly what they did? How did they go after ABC, other than expressing their opinion?
You are a real wimp of a fascist too! I point out the ABC issue and you do the “oh not me†dance. If fact, you said, “I wouldn’t have anything against Nightline reading up the names of our fallen heroes, as long as they didn’t do so every single night.†That’s your problem. When you are hit with the facts on this blog you calm down a little and say “not me.†What a wimp you are! You want to rant until the facts come in and then you wimp out and go “not me!†“I’m not like them.†Well, you are like them. Until caught. Then you wimp out. Typical chickenshit, chickhawk bullshit!! You make me puke!
Ehhh. I guess there’s just no way that I am actually not one of those who “attacked” ABC. Go to my blog if you want, I didn’t write a single word about that issue at all. You’re like a conspiracy theorist, even if I tell you the truth straight up, you just invent some other reason for why I’m not telling the “truth” you want to believe in. This is hilarious, haha.
Did the government do stem cell research on you as a fetus? Just wondering.
Hmm, not that I’m aware of, no. But no doubt you’ll take that to mean the exact opposite with your mind-reading powers.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:29 pm130, thanks. I’ve bookmarked the site!
July 9th, 2006 at 2:30 pmDont Worry about Seixon he comes from a country that has 5 reverse gears on their tanks and one forward
July 9th, 2006 at 2:36 pmWhen did Brit Hume become a military genius? Has he ever served in any branch? I would bet not.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:43 pmSo it’s a multifront war. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, China, Pakistan, Mexico. Maybe we need the declare war on every other country and save the time challanging them one-by-one.
July 9th, 2006 at 2:46 pmI think in order to make himself more right wing, Hume actually removed the left side of his brain. A military attack on Iran would not just be grossly immoral, illegal, and evil but it would also accomplish absolutely nothing in the process. America’s military is stretched so thin as it is between Iraq, hurricane assistance, and border protection, that there is simply not enough of a military left to do any invading…maybe we can draft Hume. Give him no weapons and send him alone!
July 9th, 2006 at 2:50 pmmeant to say N Korea, not Iran….man, its hard to keep track of who faux is looking to invade next
July 9th, 2006 at 2:52 pmThis didn’t happen under Saddam… Not saying he was a good guy. Just that Bush is worse.
Children among 40 killed in Baghdad ‘massacre’
Gunmen roaming a Baghdad neighborhood today killed at least 40 unarmed Iraqis, including women and children, as soon as they identified them as Sunnis, Iraqi police and officials said. A spokesman for the Iraqi Islamic Party called the killings “one of the biggest massacres of Sunnis.”
http://www.cnn.com
July 9th, 2006 at 3:04 pm146, from the article:
“If I had one thing that I could wish for the Iraqi people, it would be to disarm the Iraqi militias,” Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, told CNN.
I agree.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:15 pmWhen did a newsreader become an expert on how to start a war with another country? Oh, I guess he’s just followed along with the brilliant plans of action executed by Bush and cronies, and now he thinks he knows what good foreign policy is too.
Here’s a plan. Since the military keeps moving up the enlistment age because no sane person would want to join the military now to go to Iraq and be killed in a futile failing invasion plan, when it gets to Hume’s age, he can join up, then go fight and try not to be killed in Iraq, and then he can come back in four years and tell us what we should do about N. Korea.
Stick to reading the news moron, not trying to be smart in front of those who are smarter than you.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:19 pmWhile Seixon masturbates at the sight and sounds of the Chimperor Boy King and the anti-Christ known as Brit Hume, he should also consider checking into the school of Reality and take a course in War 101. There was a reason for the Revolution, Civil War, WW1, WW2. Since then, it’s been different. Vietnam never bombed us and yet we had to go there to fight a losing battle just like we are doing with Iraq and soon with N. Korea. We start bombing and we have opened ourselves up for WW3. In other words, we will be dead sooner than we think.
The politicians who elect to go to war will pay. But so will those who put Bush in office, illegally or by blind allegiance. And unfortunately, we, the bloggers who are more intelligent than the neocons in politics, will pay to and we will be the victims.
So Sexion continue to get schooled by Professor Unbelieveable and maybe, just maybe you’ll get in touch with reality.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:19 pm146# the worst bit about these deaths , they are done by the Interior ministry that is supported and paid for by americans , The Interior ministry are the guys creating the trouble and sectarian strife in order for the americans to stay,
July 9th, 2006 at 3:20 pm#146
well, saddam didn’t have madmen such as john negroponte of the PHOENIX project advising him either… negroponte, rumsfeld, and cheney have been war-criminals for the past thirty years….
the bush crime family is not only happy to see dead civilian iraqi babies, but, i would not doubt if negroponte is behind many if not all the attacks. the more attacks, the more deaths, the more cash for the family.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:30 pmClinton officials argue for preemptive strike:
July 9th, 2006 at 3:31 pmhttp://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C1211527%2C00.html
hey! how did ann coulter’s name show up on my post??? bastard! :)
July 9th, 2006 at 3:32 pmSeixon:
You are without a doubt the most self-absorbed poster on this site. I have wondered why you continue making a fool of yourself here. Over and over the progressive posters make a fool out of you. You must be quite masochistic. However, I must personally confess that I find your idiocy quite entertaining, so keep it up!
July 9th, 2006 at 3:35 pm148 It’s no surprise. After all Hume remains friends with the whores and pimps of Faux News. He’s a press secretary not a military expert. He doesn’t work for the Pentagon and He and Faux thinks he knows the military like the Chimperor Boy King knows a lot about global warming.
This sounds crazy but the ideal Press Secretary should be tall, female with brown hair, a smoky Lauren Bacall voice, cute and should have the initials C.J.. But since this is a fictional character, I guess we’re sunk.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:35 pmJIMBO,
While Seixon masturbates at the sight and sounds of the Chimperor Boy King and the anti-Christ known as Brit Hume, he should also consider checking into the school of Reality and take a course in War 101.
Maybe you should read my comments here and find out (most likely to your amazement) that I haven’t expressed any agreement with Hume on this issue at all. In fact, I disagree with him. Ooops!
So Sexion continue to get schooled by Professor Unbelieveable and maybe, just maybe you’ll get in touch with reality.
Yeah, the “professor” who had to lie about a link I posted, and you, a person who pretends the opposite of the truth to smear people. What did you say about reality? You don’t know anything about reality.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:35 pm#151
well, i used to call the father’s war BUSH WAR I and then Afghanistan BUSH WAR II and iraq BUSH WAR III…but, with syria, north korea, and iran on the runway, i thought it was getting cumbersome….
lets see how many more wars he can start in 900something more days and then we can name them properly, don’t you think?
July 9th, 2006 at 3:35 pmfor those of you good souls that bother yourselves to talk to someone not worthy of your time, i ask: do you talk to your bowel movements in the morning? do you talk to the scab that forms on your elbow or your knee? does your kleenex draw your words? do you look at a dog’s asshole and begin a conversation? do you visit a farm and discuss politics with a pile of horse-shit in the barn?
then, why people, jay, jimbo, kate, and the rest, talk to this damn fool???
i fall into it sometimes and shoo at the pest, but, he has been getting more attention than he is worth.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:40 pmDixie Blood- If this is the Bush War, can we also declare war on the Chimperor? I hope so. The only weapons we have are our minds, high literacy and the truth. And the Chimperor Boy King, with his frat boy experience, hates our minds. My Senator, John Murtha, war hero, should be our Commander as well as Commander in Chief.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:40 pm#26; I have more trust in Kim Jong Il than George W. Bush.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:52 pmDoodle Bug, another good one:
I like your Christ
I do not like your Christians
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ
Mahatma Gandhi
July 9th, 2006 at 3:53 pmSexion- Faux News is not reality. It’s only propaganda and how a government -supported organization forces you to believe what they want you to think without evidence, proof or offer the truth. Oh, and how do I know that you don’t agree with Brit Hume. Like LIEberman, you present deceptive and contradictory viewpoints.
Hume is a part of the Chimp Administration.
For your info, reality is watching Olbermann, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and switching from Larry King to Charlie Rose. Reality is listening to BBC News on XM Satellite Radio.
Unbelievable presented her evidence crystal clear where you, all you do is spout nonsense by believing those modern day Joseph Goebbels at Faux News. That’s your so-called reality.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:53 pm#60; I agree! These chickenshit chickenhawks have no clue to reality.
July 9th, 2006 at 3:54 pmTo anyone who thinks the U.S. doesn’t control Iraqi oil, I ask, why is the oil still sold in U.S. dollars rather than Euros?
July 9th, 2006 at 3:57 pmUntil America has proportional representaion all votes are a waste of time
July 9th, 2006 at 3:58 pmAll european countries use this method of voting except the UK which explains everything
“The end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased, the epitaph drear, a fool lies here who tried to hustle the east”. —-Rudyard Kipling.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:13 pmthen, why people, jay, jimbo, kate, and the rest, talk to this damn fool???
Comment by james risser — July 9, 2006 @ 3:40 pm
um… did you mean “katy“? no, you’ve got me mixed up with someone else, whom you have conspicuously left out of that list… i’ve not addressed that one in such a very long time, i can’t remember…
July 9th, 2006 at 4:16 pm#169
good question… it is so tempting because it is so easy, and, he may go back to his pogromists and claim victory. all i know is that he eats up too much scrolling time as i skip through his visciousness and lies and search for posts to read, and he tends to raise ones blood-pressure without any pay-off at the end.
i am beginning to think of it as think progress white-noise more then him representing a particular viewpoint. we simply need brighter trolls…even the mighty hermaphrodite makes more sense…and that is not saying much.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:17 pmComment by Laszlo Panaflex — July 9, 2006 @ 3:31 pm
an interesting piece in Time… Perry is mentioned in the Alter piece that i linked to several time in this thread:
Those who have long dealt with the Korean problem began, in mid-2003, to express alarm at the consequences of Bush’s mishandling of it. “I think we are losing control,†worried former secretary of defense William Perry. “The nuclear program now under way in North Korea poses an imminent danger of nuclear weapons being detonated in American cities.†Only six months earlier Perry had been arguing in public that the problem was addressable, “if we did the right things.†Now, however, he worried that “time is running out, and each month the problem gets more dangerous.â€
guess he’s decided that time has run out… so glad the article ends with:
The “Six Party” talks are the right forum for diplomacy, but ultimately, what matters less than who is at the table is whether the U.S. has a clear strategy. We won’t know whether North Korea’s ambitions can be blunted by anything short of the use of force unless and until the U.S. takes the danger seriously and gets in the game.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:23 pm#171
sorry i am quite bad with names. i was thinking of adding others, e.g., lily and i thought i recalled a kate. my apologies.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:24 pmFactsOnly,
Case in point: when an American soldier dies in Iraq, his name is published, there are eulogies etc. But if an American patrol kills a pregnant mother an her husband in some gory “accident†leaving her children who sat in the back of the car soaked in blood and crying helplessly on the street, that is not even a news item, never you mind Americans knowing their names. Iraqis, being non-American are simply items of inventory, non-people, props on the stage of the Glorious Crusade.
What? We hear stuff like this on the news all the time. They don’t name each Iraqi because, well, they are Iraqis. They name US soldiers because they are American. You know, just like us. The foreign press almost never names US soldiers who have been killed, nor do I expect the Iraqi press (yes, they do actually have a press now) to name our soldiers either. But I bet they name their Iraqis who have been killed.
You’re inventing a “problem†where there is none because you are too caught up in causing problems rather than just think logically for two seconds.
Comment by Seixon —
July 9th, 2006 at 4:28 pm======================
Whoosh!! Right over your head,Seixon.
#175
there is a good piece in the washington post today titled ‘what’s an iraqi life worth?’ that may interest you if you haven’t seen it yet.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
sorry i am quite bad with names.
Comment by james risser — July 9, 2006 @ 4:24 pm
no problem…
but once again the numbers are messed up… my respnse is #174 not 171, on my screen… your answer, “#169 good question”, must be addressed to dixie blood, who, on my screen is #172… who addresses you as “#160″ and i see that at #163… and so on… AAAAAAAARRRRGH!
July 9th, 2006 at 4:35 pmJIMBO,
Sexion- Faux News is not reality.
Oh no! Not the FOX News jab! How original! I’ve never heard that kind of barb before! Why, Ned Lamont didn’t use such a lame retort in his debate with Lieberman. Oh wait, yeah he did. I don’t watch FOX News, smart one, I live in Norway. I don’t even have a TV.
It’s only propaganda and how a government -supported organization forces you to believe what they want you to think without evidence, proof or offer the truth.
Wait, are we talking about Think Progress? I’m confused.
Oh, and how do I know that you don’t agree with Brit Hume. Like LIEberman, you present deceptive and contradictory viewpoints.
You’re right, you never asked me if I agreed with Hume or not, you just assumed I did because you are a degenerate hack. I haven’t presented anything deceptive or contradictory. Go ahead and present them though. Like the rest of the goons around here, whenever I ask for proof of anything they say, they stay quite silent or simply repeat their lies.
Hume is a part of the Chimp Administration.
Sure he is, sure he is. He can’t just agree with the president, he has to actually be a part of his administration. Mhm.
For your info, reality is watching Olbermann, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and switching from Larry King to Charlie Rose. Reality is listening to BBC News on XM Satellite Radio.
Olbermann, the Daily Show, and the Colbert Report is reality? LMAO. Fake news shows is reality? Oh boy, you are quite a funny one. I agree that Charlie Rose is a pretty good show, but the rest of what you said is just hilarious. Jon Stewart is pretty funny, but biased as hell. Unlike Stewart, Olbermann is not funny nor is he intelligent at all. He’s a washed up sportscaster that thought he would play liberal demigod by telling them exactly what they want to hear.
Unbelievable presented her evidence crystal clear where you, all you do is spout nonsense by believing those modern day Joseph Goebbels at Faux News. That’s your so-called reality.
What evidence? Of what? You guys are fricking ridiculous. You lie profusely and never back anything you say up with a shred of evidence.
unbelievable lied her ass off by claiming I was trying to get people to go to my blog, when in reality I linked to an image at Wikipedia. Keep on lying, it’s all you guys are good at. Wait, you’re not even good at that, nevermind.
dixie,
Is it possible that if we don’t respond then he claims victory among his fascist buddies?
As opposed to your non-fascist buddies who go digging up information on me, divulging it here at Think Progress to intimidate me, call me names, lie about me, smear me, and ask me to leave for stating my opinion. Yeah, that’s totally progressive man. Definitely no fascist at all. Mhm. Keep living the dream buddy.
I can see and hear him claiming, “They have no answer! I am right!†This is a serious question. I am not being flippant as I am so much of the time (like above.) Ignore or answer the jack-booted, mouth-breathing, fascists?
The only fascists around here are those who call others fascists instead of actually dealing with their expressions in a debate. You are your own worst enemy my friend. You’re acting just like a fascist would, and are helping wannabe fascists carry out character assassinations of me.
I disagree with Hume. I have expressed this point of view on NoKo in many threads here at Think Progress. Can you deal with the reality of that? If not, then you agree with a “fascist”, as you put it yourself.
July 9th, 2006 at 4:38 pm#176
well, since life is short and there are so many facists to confront, i just think ones time is best served by attacking the ‘global’ facists, e.g., the bush crime family, ann coulter, fox news, senators graham, lieberman, cornyn, kyl.
but, by all means, i do not intend to limit your choices, but, am merely questioning whether life is long enough to worry about a small pile of dog-shit in your front yard when your house is burning…
July 9th, 2006 at 4:41 pmsEiXXON-and-on-and-on-and-on’s head.
Comment by dixie blood — July 9, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
good chuckle, dixie blood! thanks!
July 9th, 2006 at 4:46 pmSo Think Progress once again degenerates into a kindergarden playground. Good job guys.
July 9th, 2006 at 5:01 pmAs for spineless chickenshits, why don’t you go visit this thread where not a single person would honestly come right out and state that they would rather have their mother die than torture Osama bin Laden. Only one person, Cyra Brown, admitted that she would in fact much rather torture bin Laden than have her mother die.
The chickenshits at this site can’t admit that, yes, they would torture someone in certain circumstances because their ideological brain keeps telling them “never torture!” but then reality hits them and they are too spineless to choose between their ideology and reality.
July 9th, 2006 at 5:13 pm#118 – “Why don’t you find out? Do you have the courage to write your King and tell him your thoughts?I would like to see the King’s reply.” Comment by Braid Fair
*****Dear Braid, I’m sure you write the White House regularly, telling them of your version of a Higher Power, your exalted ShaMAN status, and what you REALLY think of the President and administration. Have they sent you a photo and letter in reply? They haven’t??…..Hmmmm….
Seixon – You certainly give the atheists out there a more thoughtful reputation. (So many who inhabit this site seem perpetually pi$$ed off – that life is unfair, and they are SO much smarter than everyone else they meet.) You are far to kind and much more patient than I – unbelievable LIAR, Jay Random, and a couple of less notable progs have accomplished something few rarely see. They have elevated LYING to an art form. (Have you ever read two such whiny, cranky people? They act as if they are perpetually constipated – but being the veg enthusiasts they are, it’s probably just methane….)
July 9th, 2006 at 5:16 pmdixie blood,
You know as well as I do that I’m not going anywhere. Think Progress does not present any requirements to post here, you are not the owner of this site, so I can stick around here as much as I want. You wouldn’t know what a fascist was even if Benito Mussolini took a shit in your lap.
You are left with two choices:
1. Continue ad nauseum attacking, smearing, slurring, and slandering me.
2. Debate me on the merits of the topic at hand.
The choice is yours. If you see yourself as an intellectual, you’ll choose #2.
July 9th, 2006 at 5:28 pmMighty Hypocrite,
July 9th, 2006 at 5:33 pmSince I see you are still alive (though possibly brain-dead) and trolling, why don’t you cite your sources for your outlandish statement on the wildfires/global thread that PROGs have been lauding female infanticide in China for decades? (And only you could try to change the subject from global warming to infanticide in China!) I’ve been waiting nearly two days. But am I surprised you can’t substantiate your BS? No!
thanks for that wa-po link, james… this part struck me:
In the early days of the insurgency, some U.S. commanders appeared oblivious to the possibility that excessive force might produce a backlash. They counted on the iron fist to create an atmosphere conducive to good behavior. The idea was not to distinguish between “good” and “bad” Iraqis, but to induce compliance through intimidation.
hell, that technique doesn’t work with children… good parenting rules are applicable to most any situation in life… the “golden rule” is even easer to understand… same difference, really…
July 9th, 2006 at 5:35 pm#111
#
“The point now is how do we work together to achieve important goals. And one such goal is a democracy in Germany.â€
—George W. Bush, D.C., May 5, 2006
Comment by unbelievable — July 9, 2006 @ 1:54 pm
Great comment unbelievable – Germany IS a democracy. What’s with Bush? He can’t really be that stupid, can he?
Oh – and by the way… seems like Seixon has a crush on you. You really have a way of getting him excited (lol)
July 9th, 2006 at 5:52 pmdon’t forget the ever popular 3rd choice:
I G N O R E I T
one can put forth the proper response and/or point without acknowledging anyone in particular…
July 9th, 2006 at 5:53 pmjust sayin’…
ok then! there’s 4! good for you, dixie blood!
July 9th, 2006 at 6:12 pmDear Lazy LIAR Lora – The proof of environmentalists support for Chinese infanticide comes from none other than Garrit Hardin, author of the famous essay, Tragedy of the Commons”. Hardin was a “controversial ecologist” (I think that was the term before the word “environmentalist” gained traction) and University of California Santa Barbara professor.
“The only answer is that family size cannot be left to individual decisions. You don’t have to be brutal about it. You can use incentives. But control of population will have to take the form of mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon.” (2)
“Mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon” is a misnomer as Hardin routinely supports the actions of authoritarian governments who rarely seek consent for their actions. When asked about China’s |one-child policy, for example, Hardin lamented that the Chinese government did not go far enough.” S. Monteith, MD
But you also (conveniently!) forgot a portion of my assertion that progs REALLY hate people. From Margaret Sangers argument for of culling (what she termed) “human weeds”, to Hardins’ essay “Lifeboat Ethics: The Case Against Helping the Poor,” progressives are a twisted bunch when it comes to people. More EVIDENCE that many progs HATE people:
“David Graber, a research biologist with the National Park Service, was quoted in the Los Angeles Times Book Review Section, October 22, 1989, as saying: “Human happiness and certainly human fecundity are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn’t true … We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth …Until such time as homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along.’”
“In the UNESCO Courier of November 1991, Jacques Cousteau wrote: “The damage people cause to the planet is a function of demographics – it is equal to the degree of development. One American burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes … This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
Bertrand Russell, in his book, “The Impact of Science on Society,” wrote, “At present the population of the world is increasing … War so far has had no great effect on this increase … I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others … If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full … the state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially that of others.” – 20.
You were babbling – I mean saying…..
July 9th, 2006 at 6:14 pmdixie,
I am so stupid that you and everyone else has to keep making up shit about me and lying? Go ahead, read my comments to everyone in the world. I laugh at idiots like you and unbelievable all the time, that’s one reason I come here.
unbelievable lies and claims I am trying to get people to look at my blog by linking to Wikipedia… lol
You lie and call me a fascist and all sorts of things, without showing any reason to do so.
You and your immature friends laugh at each others lies about me like you are in kindergarden.
Keep it up, provides me great comedy. It’s good to know that those I debate against are morally depraved, illogical, disingenuous, and a pack of liars. Let’s me know that I am in fact on the right track and that what I say is in fact correct.
Sock puppets are aplenty here, and you seem to be the newest one.
July 9th, 2006 at 6:16 pmGreat comment unbelievable – Germany IS a democracy. What’s with Bush? He can’t really be that stupid, can he?
If it were one comment like that, I’d say, no, it was having a moment. But it’s damn near everything out of his mouth when he isn’t reading off a teleprompter…
I was in Germany in 1998 while the Lewinsky scandal was going on. To get a break from it (as it was just as publicized in Europe as it was here), I paid attention to politics in Germany (Schoeder has just beated Kohl in a, surprise, surprise, election). Bush’s ignorance would be laughable were it not so damn dangerous.
Oh – and by the way… seems like Seixon has a crush on you. You really have a way of getting him excited (lol)
Comment by Coffins draped in flags — July 9, 2006 @ 5:52 pm
Yeah, he’s in love. But unfortunately for him, I don’t date girls (I’m sure his paranoia has shrunk his male parts and sprouted man boobs…).
I’m sure he’ll whine incessantly about us victimizing him now… :)
July 9th, 2006 at 6:43 pmMighty Hypocrite,
July 9th, 2006 at 6:46 pmI have challenged you before to cite any of my supposed lies if you’re going to call me “Lying Lora.” So far you have come up with zero. And you can be called the “lazy “one, as it took you two days of being prodded to produce some of your sources for praise of infanticide in China. But your sources hardly prove that all progressives/liberals hate people. Unlike your side, we don’t think in lockstep and don’t agree with each other on everything. Besides, if you really loved people, you would be a little more concerned about the world environment that the next generation and beyond–including your virtual children–will inherit. Oh yes, and I suppose someone like you who tries to justify the murder of a 3-year old in Haditha and all the conservatives like Melanie Morgan and Ann Coulter who call for gassing or poisoning their ideological enemies “love people.” What BS, as usual.
There are some really excellent progressive posts in here today. Great job guys and gals! We’ve reduced the troll responses to “I’m telling my Daddy on you!” and “I know you are but what am I?”. Oh, and Seixons’ usual “WAHHHHH”.
July 9th, 2006 at 6:48 pmunbelievable,
I’m still waiting for you to apologize for lying about the link I gave in comment #9. Oh and “Schoeder has just beated Kohl in a, surprise, surprise, election” is not any less illiterate than Bush. You’re supposed to be a school teacher? Good grief.
July 9th, 2006 at 6:49 pmsEiXXON-and-on, etc.
Comment by dixie blood — July 9, 2006 @ 6:47 pm
And that’s one of the funniest!
July 9th, 2006 at 6:50 pmunbelievable,
We’ve reduced the troll responses to “I’m telling my Daddy on you!â€
That’s real funny, especially since someone who commented at Think Progress actually did go and tell on me to my father… LOL. Keep playing high and mighty unbelievable, it’s the only thing keeping you sane. Your sociopathic behavior is on display here 24/7 and everyone who has an ounce of morals or integrity can see it.
You just reduced yourself on the other thread to ‘go away, I don’t like differing opinions, leave me alone in my groupthink bubble!’ LOL
July 9th, 2006 at 6:53 pmSeixon,
I don’t know what part of “I’m not reading your nonsense” you don’t get… but really, I’m not reading your nonsense. Nothing you ever say is valid. All you do is build strawmen and make personal and ad hominem attacks. When caught in your lies, you throw yourself on the floor and cry victim… Whatever dude. You’re cheap entertainment… at best.
July 9th, 2006 at 6:53 pmDon’t click on Seixon’s link. He’s only here to get people to go to his website so Google will support him filling our blogs with his irrational blather while he hides innorway from Osama bin Laden, and the possibility of a draft.
Comment by unbelievable — July 9, 2006 @ 11:20 am
Yawn. Liar.
July 9th, 2006 at 6:55 pmPs. Mighty Hypocrite,
July 9th, 2006 at 6:55 pmIn my “laziness,” I googled Garrit Hardin, because I am admittedly unfamiliar with his essay that you cite. Google produced exactly five hits for Garrit, four in English and one in German. Oh, yes, so influential and well-known! There goes your usual penchant for picking up on some obscure pundit and asserting that all progressives/liberals think that way. By your standards, I can easily assert that you must agree with the more famous David Duke’s statements that the Holocaust never happened; I’m sure your Jewish mother would love that one.
I don’t know what part of “I’m not reading your nonsense†you don’t get… but really, I’m not reading your nonsense. Nothing you ever say is valid. All you do is build strawmen and make personal and ad hominem attacks. When caught in your lies, you throw yourself on the floor and cry victim… Whatever dude. You’re cheap entertainment… at best.
Comment by unbelievable — July 9, 2006 @ 6:53 pm
Name one lie I told cutie pie. You can’t name a single one because I don’t lie. You have lied in this comment, and you lied as easily proven in #208. You lie, lie, lie, and lie. Then when caught, you act like you can’t respond because you are “ignoring” me. You project all your behavior onto me and act like you’re something you’re not.
You’re a sociopath, plain and simple.
July 9th, 2006 at 7:01 pmComment by mighty aphrodite — July 9, 2006 @ 5:16 pm
Actually, no. I haven’t written the White House. (After all, the White House cannot initiate impeachment proceedings.) I’ve written my Senators and Congressman, and received form replies. I’ve written Cindy Sheehan and received a personal response. As a result, I flew to D.C. last January to participate in a protest with her. And, yes, I’ve told her I’m a Shaman.
And I know you went all ‘ooga booga’ when I shared the message the Universe had for you (Fire – reversed: a relationship or opportunity has ended, a door has closed, or a loss has been suffered).
The message for Cindy was “Joy.”
July 9th, 2006 at 7:07 pm#201- “And you can be called the “lazy “one, as it took you two days of being prodded to produce some of your sources for praise of infanticide in China.” Lazy LiORA
******My dear LiORA – I apologize for my tardiness. Some people have a life besides providing you with sources and attributions which are easily found.
“But your sources hardly prove that all progressives/liberals hate people. Unlike your side, we don’t think in lockstep and don’t agree with each other on everything.” LiORA
July 9th, 2006 at 7:11 pm******Did I say “all progressives/liberals hate people”? If so, I extend my most humble and deepest apology. Sweeping generalizations refute the “logic” of contemporary argument, or as my dear mother used to say , “Broad brushes make the most mess.” (You may pass that to all the intoleRANT progs you might know.) And for all that tolerance, I wouldn’t look to Joe Lieberman for support. Standing for the “correct” Dem “values” 90% of the time IS apparently not good enough for the progs of Connecticut. (Joe’s not feeling the love and tolerance of the party.)
#160 – “….for those of you good souls that bother yourselves to talk to someone not worthy of your time, i ask: do you talk to your bowel movements in the morning? do you talk to the scab that forms on your elbow or your knee? does your kleenex draw your words? do you look at a dog’s asshole and begin a conversation? do you visit a farm and discuss politics with a pile of horse-shit in the barn?” -James Rise
July 9th, 2006 at 7:18 pm*******Dear LiORA – HERE’s another marvelous example of progressive tolerance for the views of others…and throwing in a smidgin of elitism for good measure – how clever!
Published Statements that Distort or Misquote Margaret Sanger
“As early as 1914 Margaret Sanger was promoting abortion, not for white middle-class women, but against ‘inferior races’ — black people, poor people, Slavs, Latins, and Hebrews were ‘human weeds.’”
This allegation about Margaret Sanger appears in an anonymous flyer, “Facts About Planned Parenthood,” that is circulated by anti-family planning activists. Margaret Sanger, who passionately believed in a woman’s right to control her body, never “promoted” abortion because it was illegal and dangerous throughout her lifetime. She urged women to use contraceptives so that they would not be at risk for the dangers of illegal, back-alley abortion. Sanger never described any ethnic community as an ‘inferior race’ or as ‘human weeds.’
In her lifetime, Sanger won the respect of international figures of all races, including the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Mahatma Gandhi; Shidzue Kato, the foremost family planning advocate in Japan; and Lady Dhanvanthi Rama Rau of India — all of whom were sensitive to issues of race.
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/bio-margaret-sanger.xml
there’s more where that came from…
July 9th, 2006 at 7:21 pm#209 – - Dear LiORA – Leave it to you to TRY to denigrate a well-known source of original ecological thought. Your ploy is shallow, so lacking in substance and NOT at ALL suprising. (When I want an original thought, I don’t rely on a parrot.) Garrit Hardin may have been weird, but rabid environmentalists, ethics students, etc. discuss “Tragedy of the Commons” quite often.
July 9th, 2006 at 7:28 pmPSSSt – The rest of your drivel is too ignorant to comment on….
Comment by dixie blood — July 9, 2006 @ 7:22 pm
He’s 24. Not that he’s physically a child – just mentally. Why else would he be hiding in Norway from Osama? And still cry to his Daddy to help him?
So, feel no guilt. He’s a college graduate with a degree in ‘Computers’. He’s fair game…
July 9th, 2006 at 7:30 pmLiORA – May I ask if you’ve heard of Jacques Cousteau, Henry Morganthaler and Peter Singer? (Not Inspector Clousseau…”)
July 9th, 2006 at 7:31 pmMighty Condescending would be a better name.
July 9th, 2006 at 7:33 pmAnd for all that tolerance, I wouldn’t look to Joe Lieberman for support. Standing for the “correct†Dem “values†90% of the time IS apparently not good enough for the progs of Connecticut. (Joe’s not feeling the love and tolerance of the party.)
comment by Mighty Hypocrite
You have a life outside trolling? That’s hard to believe, considering how your comments appear on almost every thread, except the one about the CIA unit devoted to Bin Ladin being closed. Couldn’t find a defense for your “tough-on-terrorism” president, could you? I don’t call an essayist, whose name appears in google only five times someone I should have known about to find in the first place.
July 9th, 2006 at 7:33 pmAs for Lieberman, our own very anti-Iraq war, pro-choice Senator Barbara Boxer is going to campaign for him, so there seems to be more tolerance within the party than you are willing to admit. And as DNC Chairman Howard Dean wisely stated in a CNN interview with John King, the primary is up to the citizens of Connecticut to decide and that he will ultimately support the winner of that race but will remain neutral until then. That’s my position, too, as I’ve never lived in Connecticut. Have you?
still looking for the Cousteau “quote”… the only google hits are blogs, religious sites and conspiracy theory sites…
July 9th, 2006 at 7:39 pmimagine that…
Braid Fair – Did you frame Cindy’s letter and your airline ticket? (I’m sure you treasure both!!) Tell Ms. Uni Verse I appreciate her concern but….”A loss has been suffered” or “will be suffered”… (The first has been endured and the possibility – I won’t dwell on…)
July 9th, 2006 at 7:40 pmBriseadh,
You ride me for not writing to the King of Norway, but don’t have the “courage” to write Bush yourself? Another round of hypocrisy for ya!
You’ve protested with Cindy Sheehan? Wow, you know, that sure does explain a lot. Let me ask you, as someone who has spoken to her, does she hate Bush? Does she talk bad about Bush?
dixie,
My god. I had no idea I’ve been dealing with a minor. This explains the stupidity I’ve spent the entire day trying to understand. I feel so bad beating this little moron into the ground today (blog-wise). Am I guilty of child abuse? How about in Norway?
Oh, so you don’t have a father? Only minors have fathers? Logic 1 – dixie 0.
Now I know I must completely ignore this spawn from Hitler’s thighs. I can no longer, in good conscience, trash this little troll’s brain. Maybe, when he’s older, we can spar with equally developed brains. But, no way, between now and then.
The only thing you have trashed is any notion that you have any intellect what so ever. Someone who doesn’t even think twice over the fact that not only minors have fathers shows you are completely braindead.
sEiXXON, See ya little guy. Really sorry about the small brain stuff. I didn’t know you were still growing (a brain.)
Heh. Grow a brain yourself and figure out that most people over the age of 18 still have fathers.
unbelievable liar,
He’s 24. Not that he’s physically a child – just mentally. Why else would he be hiding in Norway from Osama? And still cry to his Daddy to help him?
You just stated that I have a degree in computers. So which is it, am I in Norway for an education or am I here to hide from Osama bin Laden? I didn’t cry to my daddy for help, someone cried to my dad claiming I was lying about them. Did you just buy a huge projection TV unbelievable? You seem to be obsessed with projection.
July 9th, 2006 at 7:43 pmkaty – WHAT did you expect Planned Parenthood to say???
July 9th, 2006 at 7:43 pmhttp://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/jacques_cousteau/
http://motivationalquotes.com/People/cousteau.shtml
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jacques_yves_cousteau.html
Farming as we do it is hunting, and in the sea we act like barbarians.
—Jacques Yves Cousteau
Sounds like a progressive tree hugger (make it sea hugger) to me…
July 9th, 2006 at 7:47 pmIn order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 per day.
–Jacques Yves Cousteau
It is certain that the study of human psychology, if it were undertaken exclusively in prisons, would also lead to misrepresentation and absurd generalizations.
—Jacques Yves Cousteau
It takes generosity to discover the whole through others. If you realize you are only a violin, you can open yourself up to the world by playing your role in the concert.
—-Jacques Yves Cousteau
Man, of all the animals, is probably the only one to regard himself as a great delicacy.
—Jacques Yves Cousteau
The real cure for our environmental problems is to understand that our job is to salvage Mother Nature. We are facing a formidable enemy in this field. It is the hunters… and to convince them to leave their guns on the wall is going to be very difficult.
July 9th, 2006 at 7:50 pm—Jacques Yves Cousteau
to put the Hardin quote in contest:
A microbiologist by training, Garrett Hardin became famous in environmental circles for his 1968 essay, The Tragedy of the Commons, which argued for strict controls on reproductive choice to solve the population problem. The essay has become a staple in environmental literature, being reprinted at least 87 times. (1) Hardin’s success is mystifying not merely because he consistently presents pessimistic scenarios unwarranted by the evidence, but because unlike other doomsayers Hardin is almost alone in his rejection of incentives-based management of population and instead advocates blatantly authoritarian coercion which would trample on human rights and civil liberties at every turn.
The main message of Hardin’s work is that reproductive decisions cannot be left in the hands of individuals but must rest in society. Explaining why he thinks Zero Population Growth, a group which seeks funding for birth control and abortion to help reduce population growth, is ineffective Hardin said,
The only answer is that family size cannot be left to individual decisions. You don’t have to be brutal about it. You can use incentives. But control of population will have to take the form of mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon. (2)
“Mutual coercion, mutually agreed upon” is a misnomer as Hardin routinely supports the actions of authoritarian governments who rarely seek consent for their actions. When asked about China’s |one-child policy|, for example, Hardin lamented that the Chinese government did not go far enough!
I give the Chinese credit for officially recognizing that they have a problem and for having the nerve to propose the single-child program …. They have failed, however, by not making this directive universal throughout the country. The one-child policy is only enforced in congested urban areas. People in rural regions continue to have too many children — so the Chinese haven’t solved their problems at al. (3)
What many people throughout the world find repugnant about China’s policy is that it forces some women to have abortions and others to abandon infant children. Hardin vacillates on his views of abortion, arguing strictly for choice at times and other times implying women might need to be forced to have abortions.
…
http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/people/garrett_hardin.html
the interview containing that first quote:
July 9th, 2006 at 8:02 pmhttp://www.garretthardinsociety.org/gh/gh_skeptic_interview.html
dixie,
The latest tactic, emasculation. Brilliant. What ad hominem will the brilliant one, who doesn’t even know that people other than minors have fathers, come up with next?
Remember dixie, the peanut butter goes on the bread, not on your head. Mk? Don’t hurt yourself, be safe.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:07 pmdixie,
I still have a father too. God bless both of us. However, no one runs to my father to complain about me. At 24 years old no one should have to run to your father due to your screwed up mouth! Your father must be massively disappointed in you at this point in your life. 24 years old and still trouble for your dad. Loser!!!!
Ehh. No one runs to your father because apparently your detractors have more sense than to do so. Apparently whoever at Think Progress thought it was appropriate to call my father rather than speak to me. I’m not the loser, the person from Think Progress who thought it was OK to call an adult’s parents about something that has nothing to do with those parents is the loser.
Nice try at projection. Again.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:15 pmi must say… i found most of what aphro posted in #200, but after my last post, which was WAY too lengthy (sorry), i’m not going to bother with the others… suffice it to say, that when taken IN CONTEXT most of those “quotes” were fairly innocuous and scietifically sound – one has to consider that those people ARE scientists and so think and deduce as such…
and i was bored… not any longer
July 9th, 2006 at 8:24 pmsee ya!
Repeating lies a million times doesn’t make them true, you wannabe fascist smear artist.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:24 pmDixie,
I think Seixon is more worried about terrorist attacks than getting drafted. After all his idol Dick-tator Cheney set the bar for seven deferments during Vietnam. And Jay said that Seixon mentioned that he will invoke Norwiegen citizenship if necessary. So he has that covered.
Neocons do everything based on fear. They horde out of fear of being in need. They yell out of fear of being unable to stand on facts. They build strawmen out of fear of being unable to debate with facts. And they wage wars on innocent countries out of fear of boogeymen. Seixon is most definitely, the typical neocon, afraid.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:25 pm“We need to put all the neocons and their spokespeople on lithium”
I would rather see cyanide used.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:40 pmI see Sy-bile is at it again, impersonating people like a first grader with a crush on silly Seixon.
You do know that Sy-bile is a gay man, don’t you Seixon?
July 9th, 2006 at 8:41 pmunbelievable,
Jay was wrong, but of course, you routinely take wrong information and use it as fact. I cannot invoke my Norwegian citizenship to prevent from being in a draft, nor would I seek to do so.
Neocons do everything based on fear. They horde out of fear of being in need. They yell out of fear of being unable to stand on facts. They build strawmen out of fear of being unable to debate with facts. And they wage wars on innocent countries out of fear of boogeymen. Seixon is most definitely, the typical neocon, afraid.
You claimed a link to Wikipedia was to my blog. What are you trying to hide? Jay Randal wouldn’t even email me, citing irrational fears of a computer virus. You have commented earlier that you see me as an “enemy” in a “war”.
I’m afraid? Who’s the one who wouldn’t answer a simple question about torture? Who’s the one who won’t admit that they lied? Who’s the one who is scared of different opinions, seeking to have them removed from Think Progress all together?
You’re afraid, unbelievable, and you are projecting it onto me for fear of being exposed as a fraud, liar, and groupthinker.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:41 pmunbelievable,
You do know that Sy-bile is a gay man, don’t you Seixon?
And? Did you have a point? I don’t see one.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:42 pmSince you ignorant trolls don’t get it, let’s try again. The Left equals communism and socialism. The Right equals racism and Fascism…
Fascism
July 9th, 2006 at 8:44 pmA system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
unbelievable,
You can have fascist communism, in fact, that’s what the USSR was very close to, as well as China. You clearly are working with simplified models of all of this, since you have no clue.
July 9th, 2006 at 8:50 pmah Norway, sex change capitol of the world.
July 9th, 2006 at 9:10 pmComment by Seixon — July 9, 2006 @ 7:43 pm
Actually, I showed up in person for his State of the Union speech. I was right outside. Hard to miss: I was wearing my kilt and played the bagpipes for all the fallen in Bush’s War. I was even introduced by name. The Department of Homeland Security was there, watching, so I’m sure they have a file on me.
Tell you what, you write your King and tell him your feelings about his monarchy. Post your letter and his response. And then I’ll write President Bush. I’ll post my letter and his response.
July 9th, 2006 at 9:28 pmYou know that neither of us is going to get a response, so why bother? Waste of time.
July 9th, 2006 at 9:31 pmComment by Seixon — July 9, 2006 @ 9:31 pm
Hypocrite.
July 9th, 2006 at 9:32 pmHypocrite.
How? I never demanded that you do it. LOL. What a pathetic, and unsuccessful, ploy.
July 9th, 2006 at 9:37 pmCommunism and Fascism are two extremes meeting at the bottom of what one could call “a horseshoe” shape of the political spectrum . I see no evidence here on TP of communistic thought though the troll presence is definitly hard right Fascist. TP is centrist, more or less, and it is only the mental midgets of the right who would throw out accusations of “commy” here, as it has been their tactic from the begining to falsely shift the perception of political spectrum to the right by throwing these leftwing labels out liberally(haha).
July 9th, 2006 at 9:46 pmFirst I wanna see Brit Hume fistfight , only then will I listen to his right wing chickenhawk talk.
July 9th, 2006 at 10:03 pmSteve53,
You said, “Whoosh!! Right over your head,Seixon.†in
Comment by Steve53 — July 9, 2006 @ 4:28 pm
100% right! In fact, Vice President Cheney’s hidden underground bunker is over sEiXXON-and-on-and-on-and-on’s head.
Comment by dixie blood
July 9th, 2006 at 10:16 pm====================
-snicker- Clever,dixie blood.
What a world.The worst examples of humankind can be relatively safe and snug in their bunkers,while the rest of us can face the full brunt of the bunkered-ones’ policy repercussions.
dixie,
No you didn’t! You baited it!
No, I didn’t. Briseadh insinuated that I wasn’t courageous enough to write the King of Norway with my thoughts about the monarchy. Someone asked her if she had written to Bush. She had not. Thus, a hypocrite. Briseadh then proposed that we both write, I said it would be a waste of time, and then she called me a hypocrite for no reason because I never told anyone to do anything. You, too dumb to read English or just plain dishonest, are now pretending I baited her which I did not.
You are a f*cking worthless, spineless, pansy a*s piece of sh*t fascist that has never taken a stand at this blog.
Yes I have, you creepy liar.
WHEN WILL YOU TAKE A STAND AT THIS BLOG AND DEFEND IT? NEVER! You are a punk of the first order. Bring on the facts, the intelligence, any god damn thing. You can’t you fascist freak.
I won’t take a stand and defend something that I don’t believe in, which is what you’re asking me to do. I have taken a stand on many issues here, with many people attacking, smearing, and slandering me just like you’re doing now, like a fascist.
You’re dumb as a bag of rocks dixie and haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.
July 9th, 2006 at 11:21 pmJust like Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam and…
July 10th, 2006 at 12:11 am“Superman is a fake news reporter, just like Brit Hume.” -Stephen Colbert
July 10th, 2006 at 12:12 amTo anyone who thinks the U.S. doesn’t control Iraqi oil, I ask, why is the oil still sold in U.S. dollars rather than Euros?
Comment by Lily
July 10th, 2006 at 12:31 am===============
Ah,someone is paying attention!
…the Euro,Iraq,Iran,and Bush
I’m still waiting to hear about the Iran Bourse, which was supposed to have started trading oil in Euros last March….
July 10th, 2006 at 12:36 amLily,
To anyone who thinks the U.S. doesn’t control Iraqi oil, I ask, why is the oil still sold in U.S. dollars rather than Euros?
I don’t know, why don’t you ask OPEC?
July 10th, 2006 at 1:27 amWow a real war of words on here while I was gone today! I had to work in my yard yesterday, and not fight the Bush lover trolls on here like Mighty Moron, the drag queen, who calls himself a lawyer, but actually cuts hair in a salon in DC > lol.
July 10th, 2006 at 2:32 amTime for bed, but have fun all bashing the trolls!
July 10th, 2006 at 2:34 amjesus h. christ is this guy hume an asshole,wonder what his war record looks like?
July 10th, 2006 at 5:06 amStop Flag Burning Smoke Bomb (only in red, white and blue)
Stop Gay People From Having An Equal Life Smoke Bomb (purple or pink)
Stop The Vote Smoke Bomb-Florida (only in certain counties)
Stop The Vote Smoke Bomb-Ohio (blinding flash verion only)
Stop The Press Smoke Bomb (for use only in Blue states)
Stop the Liberals Smoke Bomb (no safety instructions included)
Comment by dixie blood — July 9, 2006 @ 9:24 pm
Funny is a sad sort of way.
I agree with you that the neocons are trying to take over the country and make it fascist. It’s not even a crazy conspiracy theory to 68% of the population who disapprove of the hand puppet in the White House. Or the 73% who disapprove of the elitists running Congress. Or the 82% who disapprove of Dick-tator “Shooter” McCheney. I think it’s gone the way of Global Warming – in that all rational people know that the current Administration is going to doom us if we don’t do something to stop it.
July 10th, 2006 at 9:06 amSeixon; NOBODY could slander you. You do that to yourself.
July 10th, 2006 at 10:37 amHo Chi Minh,
Seixon; NOBODY could slander you. You do that to yourself.
Ah, so that’s why they hurl all the names and lie about me. Gotcha.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:21 amWhy do we give a rat’s banana what Brit Hume thinks? He’s a useless tool of a “journalist.” He’s certainly free to express his opinion, but we don’t have to give it any heed.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:24 pmIt’s fools like Chase comment #11, that have had too much of Karl Roves kool-aid to see things for what they are. Mr Hume is nothing but an armchair general who was afraid to spill his own blood in Viet Nam, but now it one of the braves men on the planet. He needs to stop drinking the kool-aid becauce he gets drunk and makes an ass out of himself when he speaks. Wake up Brit you power hungry fool, NK has Nuclear Weapons and would use them because their leader is stupid like you and that fool you Republicn moron love to love. I don’t know about you, but I’m sure the South Korean people don’t want to be glowing in the dark after they get hit with a counter strike. You dime store cowboys should be outlawed by an act of Congress.
The day we attack NK is the day we start a war we can’t win because your idol started a war that has us bogged down. Remember the Powell doctrine? Yes, it says, “Go in with overwhelming forces, and have an exit strategy. This President obviously didn’t get the memo and his buddy Dick who agreed with the Powell Doctrine back then has did everything he could to make fools like you forget it too.
Koolhandluke, http://WWW.Plainnews.blogspot.com
July 10th, 2006 at 1:53 pmBritt Hume looks like he has Narcolepsy.
July 10th, 2006 at 4:02 pmIf the Ritalin wears off, he falls asleep in his chair.
WTF ever made him anything but a 2nd rate news jockey?
FUX News aside, this jerk hasn’t had anything to say in his
whole career. (Or is that hole?)
STFU Hume, go to Bagdad and imbed yourself on the end of
an AK47.
parenting advice stealing
Do you think many people may consider it?
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