Bush Can Forget About Poland
Bush Can Forget About Poland
Poland has been a strong Bush administration ally in the Iraq war. It was one of the original countries to join the 2003 invasion and President Bush has repeatedly pointed out the country’s support, reminding Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) in 2004 that he “forgot Poland” and its support for the war.
But the Bush administration’s mishandling of Iraq is alienating even this strong ally. In a recent interview, Poland’s undersecretary of state for defense, Stanislaw Koziej, said that Poland is unlikely to join the United States in a future attack on Iran because of its experience in Iraq:
[The operation in Iraq] wasn’t optimal, wasn’t very effective and quite a lot of mistakes were done there and still we make a lot of mistakes. … I personally believe that military intervention in Iran is improbable. … So we should get used to the fact that we will have to deal with Iran having nuclear armaments.
It appears the Bush administration’s incompetence in Iraq will complicate U.S. foreign policy for years to come.
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Good. Now we can start debating failed American Middle East policy to affect permanent change and end terrorism.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:14 amLove the title Amanda!
July 10th, 2006 at 11:15 amOne thing the U.S. and Poland still have in common: brothers running the country. For the details, see:
July 10th, 2006 at 11:18 am“Bush-Style Brotherly Love in Poland.”
Poland is unlikely to join the United States in a future attack on Iran because of its experience in Iraq:
Good. At this point it looks like the head count for those willing to attack Iran is:
George Bush
Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Condoleeza Rice
Dennis Hastert
Joe Lieberman
Ted Stevens
Orrin Hatch
Brit Hume
Sean Hannity
Ann Coulter
Rush Limbaugh
Dennis Miller
Saddam Hussein
Seixon
Mighty Aphrodite
Randy
Tracy
Chase
Perhaps this will be their opportunity to actually get some combat experience to go along with their habitually ignorant views on war?
July 10th, 2006 at 11:24 amRemember the lie-filled days of “I’m a uniter, not a divider”?? We never hear the Chimp spew that lie any longer. I wonder why?
July 10th, 2006 at 11:32 ambush is pushing Poland straight into the European community and that is good for them. I suggest the book “After The Empire: The Breakdown of the American Order” by Emmanual Todd. This is an enlightening book when it comes to our failed foreign policy both in the ME, Russian/Asia and Europe. But it also gives you hope for peace.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:32 am#4, unbelievable – You forgot David Lesar (Halliburton CEO) and the rest of the current Halliburton Board of Directors…
July 10th, 2006 at 11:32 am#4
July 10th, 2006 at 11:35 amI’ll put up some money to buy that “Dubya Squad Delta” of yours some “self-detonation anti-insurgent vests”. They probably won’t figure out what they really are before its too late.
LISTEN THE DEAL WITH POLAND
If Poland helps the coalition they will be given free entry to the UK and work visas ….THE UK is now flooded out with Polish people ………..THANKS TONY and they have taken many of our jobs away from us
July 10th, 2006 at 11:35 am2.6 million soldiers served in the Viet Nam failure.
When are we as a nation going to start debating why we don’t have an effective anti- terror policy?
When are we going to start discussing our obvious amateurish use of the military?
July 10th, 2006 at 11:37 amYou can read the rest of nations dumping american foreign policys and its effect
Can’t We Drop Even One Alliance?
July 10th, 2006 at 11:42 am#10. As soon as anyone starts to discuss substantive issues like the lack of a terror policy, the Repugnican noise machine kicks in. The Swift Boat Veterans for Lies are brought back to active duty by Reichsmarshall Karl von Rove, and whomever brings up the topic is labeled as being “pro Terrorist.” That simmers for several days on Faux “News”, Billo blusters about how the liberals are selling out the country to the terrorists, and Rush takes a few more viagra pills so he can be an inch or two taller. When all those cogs are in place, the debate turns to a pissing match, the Repugnicans slither home claiming they have “saved” America once again from the hands of the dirty “liberals” and they wait for the next person to try again. Bottom line is there wont be reasoned discussion or discourse until we have someone in the White House who has an IQ greater than an amoeba (like the current resident does), and who can set the country back on course again.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:47 am#12: An amoeba? Come on. You’re exaggerating.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:51 amDennis Miller…
Why did you have to bring him up? I had forgotten all about him. Thankfully, he’s kind of out of the lime light now, so I doubt he has much weight to throw around. I did like his News reports back on the old Saturday Night Live though. Now……he’s one cold enchilada.
July 10th, 2006 at 11:57 amWe can definitely expand the list Parrotlover 77… I’m sure I’ve forgotten others :)
Dlet – you’re on! That sponsorship is all yours! Love the idea :)
July 10th, 2006 at 12:00 pm#13 You’re right. I was trying to give Dumbya the benefit of the doubt and probably upset amoeba’s everywhere by the comparison. My bad.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:01 pm#10-Destroy,
Sounds like an interesting proposition to me, in that you want to debate a tactic or state of mind. I can say without a doubt that I am not qualified to provide expert and informed analysis on the psychological basis for such actions but you appear to present yourself as qualified as such. Do you have formal training and qualifications in the field of psychology, especially as it pertains to violent social behavior?
Also, I need for you to explain with clarity and reasoned analysis how you can label the Iraqis as terrorist. Or, for that matter, how the Iranians and the rest of the “Middle East†are to be considered “terroristsâ€. Of course I assume that you will respond with facts and in-depth analysis and just not respond with shallow racial generalizations or buzz phrases.
I look forward to your considered response.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:04 pm#16: I know some suprisingly intelligent amoebas.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:04 pm#5 – He is a “uniter”…He’s united the rest of the world against us.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:07 pmIt appears the Bush administration’s incompetence in Iraq will complicate U.S. foreign policy for years to come.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: this administration is many things, but it is not incompetent.
What appears as incompetence in establishing a free, democratically ruled Iraq is, when one takes into consideration the real motive in invading and occupying Iraq (to establish a permanent American military presence and prevent the citizens of Iraq from governing themselves), brutal efficiency.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:10 pmHumanist,
A secret vote by the UN to determine who truly recognises Israel.
And permanently disband the UN if it is less than 67%.
That’s for starters.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:19 pm#12 & #13; simple bacteria is more intelligent than Bushco.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:20 pm#20-TripMaster,
The truth does not escape you, sir, and I congratulate you on that.
If you wish to identify who has been incompetent in the Iraq debacle (too small of a word to capture the heinous and evil nature of the event), such would have to be applied to the US Congress and American people. Sad, horrific, and true.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:21 pm“It appears the Bush administration’s incompetence in Iraq will complicate U.S. foreign policy for years to come”….
Will everyone who warned of this very outcome three years ago, please stand up?
You were right.
Will everyone who thought Bush would make the U.S. safer, please jump in a lake.
You were wrong but you’ll never be mature enough to admit it.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:22 pm#21-Destroy,
I do not see how that answers the questions that I put to you. So I will try again in a more simplified format so as to assist you in addressing the questions specifically:
1. What are your qualifications and formal education in social psychology?
2. What is your basis for labeling Iraqis as terrorists?
3. What is your basis for categorically labeling all Middle Easterners as “terrorists�
I look forward to your reply.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:26 pmWill everyone who warned of this very outcome three years ago, please stand up?
–Solitaire
When Bush was first sElected, my son was thinking of going into the military.
I told him to think real hard about, because this jackass was going to get us into a war. ( I had read the PNAC plan before the election)
Thank God he listened and went to college instead.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:29 pmI think you’re alittle out of control, Humanist. I think American foreign policy directly causes terrorism.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:43 pm#21-Destroy,
I fail to see how asking very specific questions translates into being “out of control”, especially when the questions are directly related to the topic that you are pushing. I also don’t know how I can simplify the questions any more but will attempt to do so. Here we go:
1. What specifically are your qualifications and formal education in social psychology?
2. What are your reasons for labeling Iraqis as “terrorists�
3. How do you justify, specifically, labeling all Middle Easterners as “terrorists�
I look forward to your reply.
July 10th, 2006 at 12:51 pmHumanist,
I would like for you to answer a simple question.
Where in the above post does Destroy the DLC state that Iraqis and Iranians are terrorists?
You are putting words in somebody elses mouth then demanding they answer a series of questions based on something you made up. Sounds out of control to me.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:07 pmIt appears the Bush administration’s incompetence in Iraq will complicate U.S. foreign policy for years to come.
In other news…water was discovered to be wet, and the Cubs can’t win.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:09 pmPoland’s out of the war-on-Iran games, lets get the rest of the world out now. Check out this campaign: http://www.EnoughFear.org. I posted my photo.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:09 pmand what was polands position over in iraq? i’m sure not a big one. if iam right what is the fuss about. let’s face it the only ally we really had is britain and blair needs to pull his head out of bushies ass so he can see what the f. he is trying to look at.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:14 pm#27
DITTO
July 10th, 2006 at 1:18 pmPoland has finally remembered that another dictator named Hitler invaded them once, claiming they were a danger to Germany, so they suffered just like Iraq under the Bush Regime! A couple of million Poles died fighting the Germans, but they waged a resistence campaign just like the insurgent Iraqis are doing now! They placed bombs along roads to blow up German trucks and even tanks, as well as shooting German soldiers in cafes, or any place they found them! The Polish should have remembered their past sooner and NOT helped Bush in Iraq!
July 10th, 2006 at 1:18 pm#29-Spudge,
Thank you for your response. In regard to your question about where Destroy assigns the label of “terrorists†to Iraqis and Middle Easterners in general, my logic is as follows:
The topic of this thread is about Poland’s waning support for the Iraq invasion and run up to the invasion of Iran. Destroy’s first comment stated:
Good. Now we can start debating failed American Middle East policy to affect permanent change and end terrorism.
Comment by Destroy the DLC — July 10, 2006 @ 11:14 am
Because of this claim, I don’t see how it can be interpreted any other way than Destroy is attributing “terrorism†to Iraq and Iran, and the Middle East in general. Do you see it differently?
July 10th, 2006 at 1:19 pmI read the statement to mean that invading Iraq to fight terrorists, was the mistake. the US needs to have a good middle eastern foriegn policy, and the ability to eliminate not only the root causes of terrorism, but also the cells, and individuals who preach religious extremism. He is not saying that the all Iraqi’s and all muslim are terrorists.
I think you jumped the gun a bit Humanist.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#34-Jay,
Spot on. However, one must also remember those terrorist insurgents who were so successful in forwarding the revolution that then resulted in the formation of what is now known as the United States of America. One man’s “terrorist” is another man’s “patriot”. Not picking sides, just expanding the frame of the picture.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:27 pm#36-Kranzy,
I understand what you are saying completely. Curious that Destroy would not retort in a similar manner, though, and I am politely asking specific questions, or so was my intent.
I am still very much interested in Destroy’s response to my specific questions which, by the way, are reasonable in the context of a true debate. Did not Destroy request a debate? Or were they merely seeking a choir with which to sing?
July 10th, 2006 at 1:33 pmReagan called the Taliban, and the other Mujahadeen “freedom fighters” during the eighties.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:33 pmYes post 37 > The British considered our Revolutionaries as terrorists over 200 years ago! Iraqis want the US troops out of their nation, as well as the oil thieves who came with them!
July 10th, 2006 at 1:36 pmSeixon
Mighty Aphrodite
Randy
Tracy
Chase
Perhaps this will be their opportunity to actually get some combat experience to go along with their habitually ignorant views on war?
Comment by unbelievable — July 10, 2006 @ 11:24 am
ha ha ha!
July 10th, 2006 at 1:41 pmThe UN should debate American foreign policy. Esp. in regard to Israel. And if it is not in super majority support of American foreign policy it should be disbanded.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:42 pm#36
our government never has or will have decent foreign policies period. everytime we mention anything with foreign policy it is interjected with ‘our interests’. until it is not always about our interests we may have a step in doing fine by our oversea neighbors. we help our ‘friend’ in our interests. we help our ‘enemy’ in our interests. what was our friend in one war will be our enemy in another all the while we are playing both sides of the fence. it will NEVER work when we are bought and owned by the israeli zionists meaning sharon, rothchilds.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:45 pm#39-Kranzy,
Exactly! It is interesting how labels are so quickly used and applied so as to then qualify a group of people as either “good†or “badâ€, especially when the labels are changed abruptly in order to service the interests of the labeler.
It is all too convenient to toss the label of “terrorist†around in order to further an agenda and such a tactic is being used way to cavalierly in the American discussions on foreign policy. It is entirely unfair and self-serving but, most importantly, it is wholly unsuccessful in regard to effectively and accurately addressing the complex issues.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:46 pmand that will NEVER bode well with the middle east. and why should it?
July 10th, 2006 at 1:47 pm#36 Krazny:
the US needs to have a good middle eastern foriegn policy, and the ability to eliminate not only the root causes of terrorism, but also the cells,
So you propose to eliminate US government? That would be a good example for root of terrorism.
and individuals who preach religious extremism.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:47 pmAlthough am I against any extremism, I am also against anyone being taken from its right to say whatever they want.
#43 Good post.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:55 pmJuan c
I do believe in freedom of speech. However in the current context, the speakers are inciting followers to violence. they are purposely sending other young men and women to kill. Much like the neo-nazi’s in this country, they can say whatever they like. However when they harm others, then they have crossed the line into criminal behavior, and should be dealth with accordingly.
I don’t like the Bush regime, I am unhappy with the direction our government has taken. I don’t think sending the US into total anarchy will fix the problem. We do need a change of direction, and a change of thinking. I know that for some time the US has laid claim to being a shining beacon of freedom and democracy while supporting some truly terrible people. Like Saddam Hussien himself. Economic interests, have pushed us away from the path we should be taking. Our current extremist leadership is taking us even farther down the path. maybe not to outright tyranny, but into dangerous waters none the less.
July 10th, 2006 at 1:55 pm#42-Destroy,
As you refuse to answer my initial questions, then I will respectfully address your new angle, that of disbanding the United Nations.
First off, the United Nations should not debate the United States’s foreign policy in the manner you suggest. Your approach is a bit simplistic and it seems that you are attempting to frame an argument so that you can just reach the conclusion that the United Nations should be abandoned. The United Nations functions as a separate, not superior, entity which provides balance amongst nations on a global scale. Only in this manner will it be successful and aid in the furtherance of world peace and human rights, which is its charter. If it operates at the whim and direction of only one of its members then it fails. And, make no mistake, if it fails then WWIII is inevitable.
Also, last I checked, Israel is a sovereign nation. Am I correct there? If so, then why should the United States design its foreign policy regarding the middle east to solely service the agenda and interests of one of its numerous sovereign nations. Isn’t that racism on the grandest scale possible?
I look forward to your considered response.
July 10th, 2006 at 2:00 pmPlease do not compare Polish Home Army of WWII to the insurgents of Iraq. They are nothing like it. They were honorable soldiers who even offered quarter to German soldiers after they wer captured. They were blowing up German trains going East, and not civilian markets. They did not behead German soldiers, and their main mission was strongly military. Iragi terrorists are sheding a jihhad. DO NOT INSULT POLISH FREEDOM FIGHTERS LIKE THAT.
July 10th, 2006 at 3:02 pmAnd to the Brit that is complaining about Poles being in England, what jobs are they taking from you? You mean jobs you don’t want, or jobs that you desperatly need? Besides your own agencies stated that there is a steady increase in English economy thanks to Central and Eastern European workers. Maybe you should be more concerned about kicking penalty kicks than about Poles in your country. Once again, England out in 1/4 finals.
Interesting how you turned “insurgents” into “terrorists” in your post. Good conservative lap dog. Rove will be proud of the work you have done here today. GO collect your pay check.
July 10th, 2006 at 3:12 pm#50-Andy,
Aren’t you making a qualitative judgment based solely upon your own personal bias? Also, it is rather fallacious of you to condemn the tactics of the Iraqi insurgents while providing a romantic view of the tactics of the Polish insurgents unless you personally observed both. Have you?
The point here is really not whose “team” is better, but rather applying the same qualitative criteria and resisting the temptation to only throw labels out there that carry the implied qualifications with them. I am absolutely certain that the German government considered the Pols to be “terrorists”. Can you not expand your mind enough to take in a larger picture of world events other than via simpleton labels provided through channels of propaganda? It is dangerous to not learn from history.
July 10th, 2006 at 3:22 pmF**k Poland once, shame on you. F**k Poland twice, shame on Poland. Good for them for just saying no to Bush and his gang of murderers.
July 10th, 2006 at 3:34 pmHumanist,
July 10th, 2006 at 3:57 pmIsrael doesn’t even have a constitution. But if you and the UN say they’re sovereign, okey dokey.
The only point I’m trying to make is people are afraid to speak their minds about foreign policy. It is political suicide.
You need to relax, sweetheart.
#40 – “The British considered our Revolutionaries as terrorists over 200 years ago!”
Comment by Jay Randal
****Dear Jay – No, the British regarded our Revolutionaries as insurgents and traitors – NOT TERRORISTS. (You seem to think those words have synonymous meanings – let one of the many school marms who litter this site explain the difference….).
July 10th, 2006 at 4:01 pmOnce again, England out in 1/4 finals.
July 10th, 2006 at 4:02 pmComment by Andy — July 10, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
Yes!
#54-Destroy,
It is difficult to have a conversation with someone who does not respond to direct questions. And your advances towards me are not appreciated and wholly inappropriate.
Now, in regard to your assertion that I “say†that Israel is a sovereign nation, nothing could be further from the truth. I UNDERSTAND that Israel is a sovereign nation. Is my understanding not correct? If so, what is the official status of the nation of Israel?
Now, I will have to call asinine your assertion that speaking about foreign policy is political suicide. Especially since such is dominating the political discussions in your country and have been for a number of years. Today’s hot topics in your country are: North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and China. That’s all that you seem to discuss really.
I think that the problem is that far too many uneducated minds spew fanatical nonsense on the pretense of discussing foreign policy and instead just continue to incite racism and simpleton analysis, hence the labeling of everyone that you do not like as being “terroristâ€.
As far as relaxing is concerned, I will do so only when you stop shooting your weapons indiscriminately around the globe like drunken fools.
July 10th, 2006 at 4:20 pmWhen are we going to start discussing our obvious amateurish use of the military?
Comment by Destroy the DLC #10
Destroy,
The discussion on the “misuse” of our military has been ongoing…
…see terms: war profiteering, Halliburton, war for oil, et al…
July 10th, 2006 at 4:34 pmMr. Danger can ALSO forget…
Russia and China…
…on the NK question…
July 10th, 2006 at 4:35 pmHow can you consider killing of women and children to be anything more than an act of terrorism. Can you not distinguish between killing of enemy soldiers, or killing of innocent civilians. I behading of Nick Berg and many others, some who were tryng to help Iragis an act of uprising against an oppressive foreign force? Forget you feelings about this war, and look a bit more objectivly at those inncidents. What do Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians and other Arabs have to do with Iraq, other than to cause trouble. I assume that Zarqawi is a revolutionary of same stature as Jefferson, or Washington. Staying with a topic of Poland, perhaps he was like Bor-Zalawski, or meybe even Walensa. Come on people, please do not piss on my shoes and tell me that it is raining. These so-called insurgents are terrorists. There is nothing noble about them. Why do they kill young Iraqi man who want to make a living and help to stablize their country. I know lots of Iraqis, and they all want peace and are against these criminals, yet liberals seem to glorify them and see them as a legitimate underground movement. Once you get over your anti-Americanism you will be able to see thing more objectivly. BTW how many of you were cheering for Soviets to win the Cold War? Was dear Ronnie a terrorist also?
July 11th, 2006 at 1:13 amWell, as the recent government of Poland is really anti-western, trying to keep foreign influence out of their lives, I would say that it is not entirely about the messed up situation in Iraq.
July 11th, 2006 at 3:59 amThat’s a justification that comes handy now.
I think there are insurgents and there are terrorists.
Why do you think only one group opposes the US army?
It’s hard to distinguish them, as they look the same for US soldiers – arabs in non western clothes.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:01 amSince our development and use of weapons and war-making tools has increased exponentially since WWI, so too have the number of civilian casualties of war. While we’re too chicken-sh-t to actually count the dead women, children, and other civilian casualties, it is easy to appease a public that likes it war sanitized for it’s own conscious. Could not our own military be accused of terrorism when we face up to the actual number of noncombantants who are injured and killed by the pursuit of our own national interests? Isn’t that how others may see us? Before you go boffo over this, I’m a military brat and have immediate family members currently serving. I look at this as a failed leadership issue. I believe that the troops themselves are doing the best they can with failed policy and leadership in almost all cases.
July 11th, 2006 at 12:19 pm[...] Bush Can Forget About PolandThink Progress, DC - Jul 10, 2006Poland has been a strong Bush administration ally in the Iraq war. … John Kerry (D-MA) in 2004 that he forgot Poland and its support for the war. … [...]
July 11th, 2006 at 12:41 pmWhoever wrote number 9 is a idiot.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:29 pmWhen I read this story yesterday, I immediately had doubts. I’ve lived in Poland since early 1992, and given the current political situation in the country, it seemed rather dubious that someone in the government would “break” with the strong pro-American stance of this administration. I didn’t have to wait long. Today StanisÅ‚aw Koziej resigned his post. His replacement will be the current assistant ambassador to the US. Poland is currently being ruled by twin brothers, president and prime minister KaczyÅ„ski, who have made their careers as extreme right-wing idealogues. Lech, the president recently snubbed Germany after a satiric article appeared in one of that country’s newspapers. If anything this government will distance itself from Europe and the EU and become an even closer ally of the United States. Sad but true.
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