Think Progress

ThinkFast AM: July 10, 2006

By Think Progress on Jul 10th, 2006 at 9:08 am

ThinkFast AM: July 10, 2006»


Karl Rove was asked about the outing of Valerie Plame last week. He reportedly said that after a “careful, thoughtful, aggressive investigation,” the person responsible for leaking should be fired.

Do-nothing Congress. Lawmakers return today “from a weeklong break [and] will resume work on a long list of unfinished — and possibly insurmountable – tasks.” Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX), said: “I’m not sure what this Congress has accomplished.”

Insiders tell U.S. News that President Bush has been working on a memoirs project for a year. “‘He’s doing a memoir,’ one insider says. ‘He’s keenly interested in it.’ But here’s the odd part: Bush hasn’t actually written a word yet.”

In Jan. 2002, State Department lawyers warned the White House against creating a “lawless” universe where detainees had no rights: “Even those terrorists captured in Afghanistan…are entitled to the fundamental humane treatment standards of…the Geneva Conventions.”

Brutality and corruption are rampant in Iraq’s police force,” according to confidential Iraqi government documents. Abuses include the rape of female prisoners, the release of terrorism suspects in exchange for bribes, and participation in insurgent bombings.

“A sharp rise in bloodletting between Shiites and minority Sunni Arabs has raised new fears of a slide to all-out civil war.” A day after more than 60 Iraqis were killed “in a dramatic escalation of sectarian violence” in Baghdad, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki pleaded for Iraqis to “unite as brothers.”

Tom DeLay “is planning an aggressive campaign to retake the House seat he quit in June if an appeals court lets stand a ruling by a federal judge last week that his name must stay on November’s ballot–even though he has moved to Virginia.”

Lobbying reform legislation remains stalled in Congress, and public interest groups think that’s a good thing. “I’d much rather see Congress fall on its face and not pass anything this year,” said Public Citizen’s Craig Holman. “What they’re considering is really nothing but a PR gimmick to placate the American voters.”

Post-election turmoil continues in Mexico. Yesterday, lawyers for Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador “turned in documented allegations of irregularities that they said cost him the July 2 presidential election, and a senior aide warned that Mexico faces an ‘insurrection’ unless all 41 million ballots are recounted.”

And finally: Happy 1st Birthday to the National Zoo’s panda cub, Tai Shan. “For his birthday, staffers prepared a giant fruitsicle for the cub, a frozen melange of apples, yams, carrots and fruit juices.”

What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.




Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date

238 Responses to “ThinkFast AM: July 10, 2006”

  1. yankeluh Says:

    Bush hasn’t written anything yet because he can’t remember anything.


  2. unbelievable Says:

    Bush writing a memoir, eh? Is it a coloring book?


  3. freebird Says:

    Bush writes??? hahahahaha


  4. unbelievable Says:

    Tom Delay is delusional. Like John Ashcroft who lost his election to a dead man, DelAy doesn’t stand a ghost of a chance of serving anywhere but at Leavenworth.


  5. unbelievable Says:

    Bush writes??? hahahahaha
    Comment by freebird — July 10, 2006 @ 9:22 am

    More like ‘colors’…


  6. Joe Sixpack Says:

    Bush hasn’t written anything yet because he can’t remember anything.
    Comment by yankeluh

    Yeah, all those years spent of as the town drunk and being a cocaine cowboy has a way of fuzzing up your mind.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I bet those two subjects will get a short shrift.


  7. beavercleaver Says:

    Bush’s memoir: I ‘member one day, a day, I can’t remember which day–it coulda been a Thursday…I put on my flight suit…my, my (snortle) codpiece–some people call ‘em a codpiece–Pickles says it’s an ole work sock with sawdust in it…an’, an’ just declared victory. “Merika wun!” Heh, heh.

    I ‘member another day! Maw ole buddy, an’ vise prezdent Dick Cheney hada…hada, well he had a little accident. I think most of the Merikan people felt sorry for him. I mean, I mean just think of how bad he must have felt! Most folks don’t realize, ‘memberin’s hard werk!


  8. dlet Says:

    Nice to see Bush is preoccupied with writing a memoir while he is still in office for a couple more years. Guess he knows he is a lame duck and needs to get his version of his history down. I wonder how many pages will be dedicated to the “Accomplishments” chapter.


  9. Bush's Brain Says:

    This memoir thing reminds me of the book,
    ‘Memoirs of an Amnesiac’. The first page is
    signed by the author; all the rest are blank.
    Kind of like Bush’s policies, signed off by the
    ‘author’, but nothing within them of substance.

    I’m guessing the author of ‘My Pet Goat’ should
    be looking out for some Ann Coulter type plagarism.


  10. Sharon Cox Says:

    Writing a book.? More like plagerism by bull shit bush. Book title, My pet goat’s in the house and senate………Blessings all, we need them.


  11. unbelievable Says:

    This is what kind of a read his ‘book’ would be:

    “I think — tide turning — see, as I remember — I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of — it’s easy to see a tide turn — did I say those words?”

    —George W. Bush, asked if the tide was turning in Iraq, Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006


  12. Chase Says:

    #4 - Don’t be so sure.

    Remember, the district he would be on the ballot in is heavily heavily Republican. All he has to do is go on TV a couple times and say something along the lines of “You don’t want that guy and that party representing you, do you?” and he will walk away with a victory.


  13. Sharon Cox Says:

    Sorry Bush’s Brain, not plagerism on my part, just slow dial up response and great minds working together……Blessings


  14. unbelievable Says:

    I wonder how many pages will be dedicated to the “Accomplishments” chapter.
    Comment by dlet — July 10, 2006 @ 9:26 am

    One. It will contain the words “big fish”.


  15. Subway Serenade Says:

    The 21st Century was to be an era of Peace and Prosperity. It was to be the age that saw the end of global poverty.

    And then there was Bush. Damn.

    50 Ways to Dump the Dubya


  16. unbelievable Says:

    “You don’t want that guy and that party representing you, do you?” and he will walk away with a victory.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 9:30 am

    Chase is a constant reminder that you can fool some of the people all of the time…


  17. Evil Spaniard Says:

    About Bush’s Memories:

    Chapter One

    “Uh?”

    End

    “Chapter One” and “End” would be written by a ghost writer…


  18. Chase Says:

    #16 - Snarky.

    Remember, we are talking about Sugarland, TX - not San Francisco, not Seattle, not even Austin.

    The likelihood of a Democrat winning that district is about a slim as you can get.


  19. Subway Serenade Says:

    Oh I get it. 41 million people voted in Mexico and they only counted 39 million. I really wish Democrats had mounted such a challenge in ‘00

    Goper’s Lament (Hard To Be A Republican)


  20. Briseadh na Faire Says:

    From the Rove article:

    Audience dismay with Rove widened during an exchange on the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Isaacson recalled that both Gen. Colin Powell, the former secretary of state, and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., recommended shutting down the detention center.

    “And do what?” Rove responded. “When we close Gitmo, the question is ‘What do we do with the bad guys at Gitmo?’ What do you do with them?”

    “That’s my question,” Isaacson shot back, to laughter.

    Rove then said that the detainees are enemy combatants, and that this is not a normal war, that the people at Guantanamo are from countries that haven’t signed the Geneva Convention. He placed the question in the realm of courts.

    “We’ve been respectful of the courts while these issues worked their way through the courts,” he said. Hissing from the audience drowned out the rest of his answer.

    We need to understand the workings of a Machiavellian mind. For example, even if the people in Guantanamo are from countries that haven’t signed the Geneva Convention, the U.S. has. As such, the U.S. is bound to apply the Convention to all prisoners. But Rove makes it sound ok if we don’t apply it at Guantanamo.

    The Machiavellian mind puts forth a half-truth and allows the audience to fill in the desired inference. Later, if called on the question, the speaker can truthfully assert he never claimed the inference.

    “We’ve been respectful of the courts…” is another example of a half-truth. While courtroom decorum may have been respectful, the backlash against the Supreme Court’s decision on Guantanamo was anything but. And they may have been respectful, even while taking jurisdiction away from the courts.

    To counter such rhetoric, you must see the half-truth, recognize the speaker’s desired inference, then put forth the balance of the truth and a counter inference.

    For example:

    Although the people at Guantanamo are from countries that haven’t signed the Geneva Convention, we have signed the Geneva Convention and therefore we are morally and legally bound to apply it, even to our enemies. (countering the half truth)

    What we have done at Guantanamo has been morally and legally wrong and we need to make it right. (presenting the desired inference)


  21. Democratic Soldier Says:

    #12 - Chase has a point. Only in Texas do you find lemming Republicans that would vote for a turd if they put it on the ballot.

    Oh wait. They’ve already got Tom DeLay. So, I guess they will vote for a turd. ;-)


  22. katy Says:

    interesting story about rove at the aspen ideas fest… lots of hissing and laughing… i thought these people were all rightwing cheerleaders…

    and yes, the person responsible for leaking should be fired…
    we agree, karl…


  23. Sharon Cox Says:

    Still little or no coverage of the white house fast in the press.. Why is that.?…….Blessings


  24. onthefence Says:

    Well Rove feels he’s in the clear, so yes IHHO the leaker should be fired, i.e. Libby. So it’s a statement that means nothing.


  25. unbelievable Says:

    The likelihood of a Democrat winning that district is about a slim as you can get.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 9:42 am

    A deadman beat John Ashcroft. Not as shocking for a conservative Democrat to take Tom Delay.


  26. Subway Serenade Says:

    What did you miss:?

    Bradblog is reporting (July 7) that there will be a hand recount of Busby/Bilbray in CA 50. Interesting stuff regarding people taking voting machines home a week before the election, breaking the secure chain of custody. This will be the first real audit of a black box vote.

    http://www.bradblog.com

    50 Ways to Dump the Dubya


  27. Chase Says:

    #21 - Oh trust me, you can find “lemming” Republicans all across the South and Midwest. Then again, you can find Yellow Dog Democrats along the West Coast and in New England.

    Blind partisanship is not a uniquely Republican trait - it just so happens that in Sugarland, TX, as leery as voters are of DeLay, they are more leery of a Democrat.

    Hell, Sabato had the GOP candidate winning when it looked like whoever’s name it was would be left off the ballot. What does that tell you about Lampson’s chances?


  28. Marie Says:

    Bush is reportedly writing a memoir?
    Are there pre-written sentences with blanks to be filled from a selected fourth grade vocabulary?
    Any published memoir written by the moron in chief would have to be filed in the children’s section under “humor” or “fiction.”


  29. Doodle Bug Says:

    This is what Ive been saying for a long time
    America: Government of Cowards

    Look, for example, at the contrast between George Bush’s rhetoric directed at North Korea and his rhetoric directed at Saddam Hussein. Saddam, he said, had been given enough chances. He had run out of time. There was no point in any more talk. Blah, blah, etc. Saddam, of course, didn’t have nuclear weapons, or even chemical or biological weapons.

    With North Korea, the president says we must seek a diplomatic solution, and diplomacy, of course, takes a lot of time, etc. and so forth. Gosh, we hate to see North Korea so isolated.

    What’s the difference? Saddam was weak, his regime was a toothless old hag, and Bush and his war hawks knew it. We could bully and invade him without fear. North Korea, however, is a regime with very sharp teeth. It has a fully equipped standing army of more than 1 million men. It has artillery wheel to wheel along the demilitarized zone. Even without its missiles, nuclear or conventional, war with North Korea would produce casualties in the tens of thousands, and would do it in a matter of days.


  30. TripMaster Monkey Says:

    Bush’s ‘memoirs’ are a book of ‘Mad Libs’ Rove gave him to keep him busy.

    The reason he reportedly ‘hasn’t written a word’ is because he’s confused as to what an ‘adjective’ is.


  31. Chase Says:

    #29 -

    Saddam, of course, didn’t have nuclear weapons, or even chemical or biological weapons.

    Check that again. As in here.


  32. Chase Says:

    #29 -

    Saddam, of course, didn’t have nuclear weapons, or even chemical or biological weapons.

    Check that again. As in here.


  33. Doodle Bug Says:

    America:Cowards and Bullies

    At any rate, our government and our Establishment remain as cowardly as they were in the 1970s. Look at the great military “triumphs” in recent years – invading Panama and Grenada, bombing Libya and Serbia, fighting two wars with Iraq. Any general who wanted a triumphal procession in Rome after victories that petty would have been limited to a single cart pulled by a donkey.

    Probably, we don’t have a real peace movement in this country because one isn’t needed. We’re not going to fight anybody who has half a chance of drawing real blood. We are never going to launch a preventative war against North Korea or Iran, and God knows not against China or Russia. Perhaps, if Bush ever extricates himself from Iraq and Afghanistan, we might have another go at Somalia.

    We are, just as Solzhenitsyn said, the bully of weak countries and an appeaser of strong ones.


  34. beavercleaver Says:

    Chase, did you bother to fact check this article? Look at the date.

    “Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein’s government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.”

    If I had the nerve you neoconjobs have of distorting facts, I believe I’d just hang-out at Freeperville, where facts don’t matter.


  35. Marie Says:

    How magnanimous of the craven Rove to declare that the person who exposed a CIA agent should be summarily fired!
    Now that Rove is off the hook, and his cronies are working to get Libby off the hook as well, he is free to tell us how justice must be served.


  36. Briseadh na Faire Says:


    war with North Korea would produce casualties in the tens of thousands, and would do it in a matter of days.

    Comment by Doodle Bug — July 10, 2006 @ 9:52 am

    More like hundreds of thousands, if not millions, and it would be a regional conflict. Japan, of all places, is looking into whether or not it can launch a pre-emptive strike.


  37. Doodle Bug Says:

    32# Chase read this Still makes america Cowards and Bullies

    UN releases report on Iraq’s chemical weapons programme 1 june 2006

    1 June 2006 – Responding to a request from Iraq, the United Nations commission monitoring weapons of mass destruction in the country today released a detailed account on chemical arms there.

    “On 7 April, the Permanent Representative of Iraq wrote to the Acting Executive Chairman (of the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC)) stating that the Government of Iraq intended to accede to the Chemical Weapons Convention,” the report, transmitted by Secretary-General Kofi Annan to the Security Council, notes.

    It describes how Iraq first started exploring chemical weapons in 1971, and reviews developments through the establishment of a “large-scale chemical weapons programme” in 1981. The capacity expanded from there to the point that “according to Iraq, the use of chemical weapons achieved its major purpose and made a significant impact on the outcome of the Iran-Iraq war.”

    According to declarations made by Iraq, in the period from 1981 to 1991 the chemical weapon programme produced approximately 3,850 tons of the chemical warfare agents mustard, tabun, sarin and VX, the report states.

    Of the total of some 3,850 tons of chemical warfare agents produced, approximately 3,300 tons of agents were weaponized in different types of aerial bombs, artillery munitions and missile warheads.

    In the period from 1981 to 1991, Iraq weaponized some 130,000 chemical munitions in total. Of these, over 101,000 munitions were used in combat, according to Iraq, in the period from 1981 to 1988.

    Iraq declared that some 28,500 chemical munitions remained unused as of January 1991; about 5,500 filled munitions were destroyed by coalition forces during the war in 1991, while another 500 filled munitions were declared destroyed unilaterally by Iraq. “These last two figures were partially verified by United Nations inspectors,” the report states.

    The bulk of the destruction of some 22,000 filled munitions occurred under the supervision of the UN inspectors in accordance with Security Council resolution 687 (1991) – the “ceasefire resolution” which ended the war – in the period from 1991 to 1994. During the collection of chemical weapons for destruction after the 1991 war, Iraq stated that it was not able to locate some 500 chemical munitions.

    “Although a number of issues relating to the Iraqi chemical weapon programme remain unresolved, the United Nations inspectors were able to identify the major parameters of the programme, its scope and the results achieved,” the report states.


  38. Cheech Says:

    Hey I have a lawless zone in my basement man! The War on Drugs just cant touch it … not even the Imperial Supremes!


  39. Democratic Soldier Says:

    #27 - I agree. There are those who blindly vote their party no matter whose name in the box on both sides of the aisle. Personally, I think there are more “lemming” Republicans than there are Democrats. (Perosnal opinion, no data to back up either side on this argument.)

    “What does that tell you about Lampson’s chances?”

    I guess it depends on the voters: vote for a corrupt conservative Republican name you know (DeLay) or a conservative Democrat name you don’t know (Lampson). If the voters are reminded of the corruption surrounding DeLay, then Lampson has a good chance. I just wish they’d remove the ability of the majority party to gerrymander the districts and made it based on voter turnout. If the voters can decide who they want in office, why can’t they vote on where to draw district lines? Or does that give the voter too much to think about? Hmmm. . . . .


  40. Chong Says:

    Ya your basement is so cool man… and I dont like the Supremes either.. their music is drag man.


  41. Marie Says:

    #11 unbelievable
    I thought your quote was a joke! Then I checked the transcript of the news conference and saw that you quoted him exactly.
    His stupidity is an endless source of amazement.


  42. Briseadh na Faire Says:

    #31 - I did check your link:

    “Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.”

    Your own link refutes your statement.


  43. Doodle Bug Says:

    32# Chase read this Still makes america Cowards and Bullies

    UN releases report on Iraq’s chemical weapons programme 1 june 2006

    AMERICA KNEW THIS BEFORE ATTACKING IRAQ >>>>THEREFORE COWARDS, BULLIES AND MASS MURDERERS,DESTROYERS OF PROPERTY, LIARS AND OIL THIEFS ,,, at last america can be proud

    No-one can now doubt the word of America –HA HA HA HA


  44. Briseadh na Faire Says:

    Leave it to Beaver (#34) to post first!

    :-)


  45. Democratic Soldier Says:

    #31 - From the article you reference:

    Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein’s government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.”

    So, despite your assertions, there still have been no WMD’s found that the war was based upon.


  46. jurassicpork Says:

    Paul Krugman writes this morning about the NYC paradox: How Manhattan continues to be a thriving hub of HQ in a digital age in which geography is supposedly made irrelevant.


  47. GWB Says:

    Thinkin up a title to a memoir is hard work. Then there’s the spellin to do.


  48. Zooey Says:

    Beautiful morning, all ya’ll!

    A building caught fire, exploded and collapsed in NYC, but the White House says it’s not terra-related.

    Anything else going on….?


  49. Briseadh na Faire Says:

    Regarding Rove and the Plame leak:

    From what we know from media accounts, it appears as thought the outing of Plame was authorized by Vice President Cheney; that Cheney “declassified” the information, hence the information was not “leaked” per se, by either Rove or Libby.

    Now, while the Vice President apparently did not have authority to declassify the information, he cannot be fired for leaking. The only way to remove a Vice President is to impeach him.

    Hence Rove’s comment deflects the investigation from the most likely culprit: the Vice President - a person who cannot be fired.


  50. Zooey Says:

    Re the not terra-related building collapse.

    Wow, they should breathe the smoke, and the smoke goes up real high. A dude was hurt, and they wrapped him up in a blue blanket…I wonder why a blue blanket…?


  51. Zooey Says:

    Wow, a woman wlaked out of the subway station, and heard the explosion…imagine that. Oh, and they’re still fighting the fire…


  52. Zooey Says:

    There are probably more reporters on the scene than firefighters.

    The talking bimbo heads keep interrupting each other…


  53. unbelievable Says:

    His stupidity is an endless source of amazement.
    Comment by Marie — July 10, 2006 @ 10:06 am

    If you have the stomach for it - there are webpages of Bush’s ‘wisdom’:

    http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm


  54. Zooey Says:

    Oh, ouch, the reporter said that because people were late, and patients haven’t yet arrived there were less people injured than oculd have been. Shouldn’t that be “fewer people?”

    I have my sarcastic hat on this morning, can ya’ll tell? It looks terrible on me, so it makes me cranky… ;)


  55. Zooey Says:

    The reporter asked a dude to describe the sound of the explosion —
    Damn, he didn’t say BOOM!


  56. unbelievable Says:

    “Border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better.”

    —George W. Bush, in a press conference with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien. Sept. 24, 2001


  57. Zooey Says:

    Wow, it’s as if I’m there…

    Mmmm, cereal & orange juice are good…


  58. unbelievable Says:

    “Brie and cheese.”

    —George W. Bush, to reporters, on what he imagines reporters eat, Crawford, Texas, Aug. 23, 2001


  59. Zooey Says:

    unbelievable!

    I’m reporting here….!


  60. Zooey Says:

    “Brie and cheese.”

    What? Reporters eat that? I want to be a real reporter…


  61. unbelievable Says:

    Arbolist … Look up the word. I don’t know, maybe I made it up. Anyway, it’s an arbo-tree-ist, somebody who knows about trees.”

    —George W. Bush, as quoted in USA Today, Aug. 21, 2001

    (Sounds like Seixon referencing Astrologists on the matter of Global Warming. He really did. I swear, I’m not that funny :)


  62. unbelievable Says:

    “It is white.”

    —George W. Bush, asked by a child in Britain what the White House was like, July 19, 2001


  63. Zooey Says:

    Oooo, the building collapse is very serious


  64. unbelievable Says:

    How can anyone still support this idiot?

    “Neither in French nor in English nor in Mexican.”

    —George W. Bush, declining to take reporters’ questions during a photo op with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien, April 21, 2001


  65. Zooey Says:

    arbo-tree-ist

    Seriously? I’m going to dry my hair…


  66. Chase Says:

    all:

    Whoops, I just realized I linked to the wrong article, from the wrong browser window. My apologies for the confusion. I’ll try again: here.

    #39 - I too wouldn’t mind the districts being drawn in more “sensible” shapes that reflect existing geographic and political boundaries (like counties, major roads, etc). I would like to see the consideration of demographics removed from the process. I sorta doubt this is a political possibility, considering the likely opposition from both sides.

    As far as comparative partisanship, I don’t know which side is more “blind”. I think I know where to look for more info, but it’ll take some time so I’ll get back to you on that.


  67. katy Says:

    from the memoirs link:

    Wal-Mart shoppers matter, he [zogby] says, because they represent small-town America. And right now they don’t like President Bush, giving him a low 35 percent approval rating.

    huh… somehow i thought it would be the opposite…


  68. dlet Says:

    #66
    Chase,
    How many “mays”, “coulds”, “reportedlys” are in the “article” that you referenced? That sure doesn’t look like an air tight argument to invade another country to me, but maybe I am just being cynical.


  69. Ho Chi Minh Says:

    #14; His accomplishments page is blank or nonexistant.


  70. Democratic Soldier Says:

    #66 - You’re corrected article doesn’t prove any WMD’s in Iraq, it only has a bunch of “May posses. . . “, “May retain. . . “, “Believed to possess . . .” references. Nothing current. Last updated on October 28, 2003.

    There is a reference that has been proven false: “Retains sufficient technical expertise to revive CW programs within months.” Iraq would not be able to “revive CW programs within months” without the materials they still have not found in Iraq. The only way to remove the “expertise” would be to kill or deport all the scientists that are in Iraq.

    It seems to me as if you’re beating a horse that expired many years ago.


  71. jules Says:

    How does the WH know this quickly that the explosion in NY is not terror related? I am not saying it is, just wondering how they would know this quickly.


  72. Zooey Says:

    Oh, the neighbors to the collapsed building have been rudely awakened this morning… Oh, it might have been a suicide? Hmmmm…

    Geez…I’m going to work.


  73. dlet Says:

    Prezdant, Me
    by: Dubya

    The most memrible moment of my prezdancy was the day I caught me a real big fish in my pond…….

    It goes downwhill from there.


  74. jurassicpork Says:

    Bob Herbert came up with another parallel between Iraq and Vietnam: How our military’s been falling into disrepair since it’s been mismanaged by “amateurs.”

    At least Reagan strengthened our military and kept it that way (even if they were occasionally misused). Bush has been spending more on defense than Reagan ever did and what are we getting for our money?


  75. Rebel With A Cause Says:

    MEXICAN ELECTION

    Obrador filed in a high court on Sunday to overturn the election. Along with the filing he provided tons of information about the corruption of Calderon and his party.

    Not rumors, not speculation, but cold hard facts and statistics. He cited the thousands of votes that were found in dumps in Mexico City and Xalapa. He cited the discrepancy between the number of votes cast and the number tallied, some two million short. He cited the names of the IFE officials on the PAN payroll and on and on.

    I am going to Mexico City this afternoon to see if I can dig up more. I will not be allowed to look at the court filing but might be able to talk with some people who have direct knowledge of it, who have seen it.

    The consensus among political pundits down here is that Calderon forces, with the aid of Bushites, stole the election, and that Obrador has the material to prove it.

    This may take several days, but hang on folks because from me, you will get the truth.


  76. unbelievable Says:

    what are we getting for our money?
    Comment by jurassicpork — July 10, 2006 @ 10:53 am

    According to our WMD expert Chase, stability in the Middle East (I’m sure he could find some really obscure source who would define civil war as ’stable’)


  77. unbelievable Says:

    This may take several days, but hang on folks because from me, you will get the truth.
    Comment by Rebel With A Cause — July 10, 2006 @ 10:58 am

    Brie and cheese for you!

    Seriously, look forward to your update. I have little doubt after reading the evidence that Bush stole two elections and simply passed that knowledge to Calderon. This probably means that there are ballots in Ohio that went to the landfills in 2004 that no one ever discovered…


  78. unbelievable Says:

    Look at what we’ve set a precedent for… How appalling.

    Japan debates strikes on N. Korea

    Discussions signal harder stance ahead of U.N. vote

    Monday, July 10, 2006; Posted: 7:09 a.m. EDT (11:09 GMT)

    TOKYO, Japan (AP) — Japan said Monday it was considering whether a pre-emptive strike on the North’s missile bases would violate its constitution, signaling a hardening stance ahead of a possible U.N. Security Council vote on Tokyo’s proposal for sanctions against the regime.

    While Japan talked of sanctions, China — North Korea’s top ally and benefactor — pressed ahead with its diplomatic efforts to draw North Korea back to stalled six-nation talks on its nuclear weapons program, dispatching a high-profile delegation to Pyongyang on Monday.

    U.S. nuclear envoy Christopher Hill huddled with Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso and other officials in Tokyo on a tour of the region to coordinate a common strategy on the North’s missile tests last week and urge Pyongyang to drop its months-long boycott of the nuclear talks

    http://www.cnn.com/ 2006/ WORLD/ asiapcf/ 07/ 10/ us.nkorea.ap/ index.html


  79. Chase Says:

    #76 - At the very least the Iraqis have been able vote in democratic elections in more than 50 years.

    Is their sectarian violence? Yes. One might reasonabily expect that when a condition of minority-rule (or at least influence) is upset nearly overnight. Sunnis are accustomed to being in control, despite they fact their are a minority and they are unwilling to accept the democratic choices the Iraqis have made.


  80. unbelievable Says:

    Democratic? Saddam held elections too… You’re nuts if you think the Iraq is truly holding Democratic elections.

    Besides, why is that point so much more valuable than the death count? I’d rather live in a benevolent dictatorship than vote in a make-believe election surrounded by civil war and endless violence. And apparently, so would you since you continuously support Bush’s tyrannical behavior.

    As far as I am concerned, religion = violence. You don’t see people going around declaring wars in teh name of atheism.


  81. Gerald Gibson Says:

    Dont the Japanese think they owe an appology to the mainland raping and murdering they did instead of threats? Korea and China seem to think Japan has not accepted responsibility for their aggression during 1920s-1945 … maybe they are correct. Maybe Japan should redouble their reconciliation efforts and let other people take care of the threats.


  82. katy Says:

    yesterday’s State of Belief on AirAmericaRadio was enlightening as usual…
    rev.gaddy talked about the speech OBAMA gave recently, about democrats and faith - there is a link to read or listen to it, also links to other’s opinions about it…
    i read it - he makes a lot of sense and offers good thoughts on the subject…
    go to link above, scroll down a bit below the 2nd picture to “in the news” for those links…
    EVERYONE should think seriously about this subject…
    it has everything to do with democratic philosophy and ideals…


  83. Gerald Gibson Says:

    As far as I am concerned, religion = violence. You don’t see people going around declaring wars in teh name of atheism.

    Comment by unbelievable

    Here comes the Communists red herring … even though the communists do not attack religion because they are atheists … it is because they want absolute power for their ganster party… but that doesnt stop the religious nuts from claiming otherwise…


  84. Tigris Lily Says:

    “Memoirs of a Dysfunctional Sociopath” by George W Bush


  85. dlet Says:

    In my opinion Iraq won’t be stable for a very long time. There will be a grab by Iran which will go unchallenged due to our military not being ina condition to handle it and no other countries willing to follow the good ole USA into military adventures anymore. When that happens the Kurds will try to declare independance and there will be an upheaval in Turkey and Iran which will promote more religious fervor and militantism. But on the other hand Bush’s ego has been appeased by getting the guy who tried to kill hi daddy.


  86. madashell Says:

    Gerald - its certainly refreshing to know that there are still people that have a sense of history. The only way to get to the ROOT of everything.


  87. Chase Says:

    #80 -

    I’d rather live in a benevolent dictatorship than vote in a make-believe election surrounded by civil war and endless violence.

    That’s one of the more saddeningly and short-sighted things I’ve read in a while.

    To pretend that Saddam’s reign was “benevolent” ignores volumes of evidence to the contrary. Ask the residents of Dujail or Halabja about Saddam’s benelovence.

    From the BBC:

    Some years ago a European interviewer nervously quoted reports that the Baghdad authorities might, on occasions, have tortured and perhaps even killed opponents of the regime.

    Was this true? Saddam Hussein was not offended. Rather, he seemed surprised by the naivete of the question. “Of course,” he replied. “What do you expect if they oppose the regime?”

    But his tactic of imposing his authority by terror has gone far beyond the occasional arrest and execution of opponents. In attempts to suppress the Kurds, for example, he has systematically used chemical weapons. And in putting down a rebellion of Shi’ia in the south he has razed towns to the ground and drained marshland.

    Not that you would recognise the figure of a tyrant in the portraits that adorn every building and street corner in Iraq.

    Here you see Saddam, usually smiling benevolently, in a variety of guises and poses - in military uniform, say, or in traditional ethnic dress, or tweed cap and sports jacket; he might be surrounded by his family or be seen jiggling a young child on his knee - the would-be father-figure of the Iraqi nation.

    The fiction of Saddam Hussein as a benevolent ruler was exposed by two major and catastrophic miscalculations of foreign policy for which his country and his people have paid dearly.


  88. Gerald Gibson Says:

    EVERYONE should think seriously about this subject…
    it has everything to do with democratic philosophy and ideals…

    Comment by katy

    The ones that need to do the thinking are the religious right… 2000 years of murdering for their flavor of religion needs to be recognized and rejected. The democrats have never called for the destruction of christianity … however the religious right HAS called for the destruction of democratic rule. The left does NOT want dominion over peoples religious beliefs… they just want it kept where it belongs .. in private. The religious right wants DOMINION over us all and to force their private matters onto OUR private matters… that is UNAMERICAN…. yet they call it being under attack… so standing up for the rights of Americans is attacking christianity? Then doesnt that mean that their brand of christianity is anti-American?


  89. Gerald Gibson Says:

    Comment by Chase

    Whats more important to you? Saddam or responding to 911? They are not the same thing… and I have been waiting for years for the republicans to do something about 911 and they are too chicken shit to go after Saudi Arabia and Pakistan … but taking down a low hanging fruit like Saddam … well they are tough enough for that though …


  90. katy Says:

    …so standing up for the rights of Americans is attacking christianity?

    no

    Then doesnt that mean that their brand of christianity is anti-American?

    yep

    Comment by Gerald Gibson — July 10, 2006 @ 11:20 am

    i said “EVERYONE”… i hope you checked oot those links…


  91. madashell Says:

    you know what is really maddening, is how the christian right twist Thomas Jefferson’s words, and his character. They misquote him constantly. In fact, the man was a deist. We just can’t let them get away with it!

    I just found I had a copy of the Declaration of Independence. I urge all of you to really READ it. I tell you, its like deja vu.


  92. Chase Says:

    #89 - “Whats more important to you? Saddam or responding to 911?”

    9-11, obviously.

    I would agree we have not taken the correct steps in handling the weak government in Pakistan or the conditions in Saudi Arabia that contribute to Wahhabist-influenced terrorism. Then again, I seriously doubt this is a Republican-only problem.

    What will the Democrats do in 2008 if they win the WH to “do something about 911″?


  93. katy Says:

    its like deja vu.
    Comment by madashell — July 10, 2006 @ 11:28 am

    huh? how so?


  94. Gerald Gibson Says:

    Comment by katy

    That statue needs to be brought down just like Saddams in Baghdad … infact the more I think about it the more it is pissing me off… They have just desecrated the Statue of Liberty … These people HATE America and its values…

    Well so that I dont end up making myself a hypocrite here … I guess I have demanded that the religious right has to accept people doing weird things with the image of Jesus and I fully support the printing of those Muslim cartoons … so I guess they can do what they want with the image of the Statue of Liberty ….

    But it still pisses me off … how would they like Saudi Arabia to put up a statue of liberty wearing a burka…


  95. madashell Says:

    BE PROUD LIBERALS!

    Our -isms or Theirs?
    by Gregory D. Foster

    There’s a war going on this country—and it isn’t the so-called global war on terrorism. It’s an Incivil War of cultural fratricide. If you’re in denial on this count, ask yourself how many times a day you hear the sanctimonious mudslingers who dominate the airwaves accusing others of liberalism. Or secularism. Or humanism (as in secular humanism). Or relativism (as in moral relativism). Or revisionism (as in historical revisionism).

    In some cosmic objective sense, these terms are nothing more than harmless rhetorical gnats: innocuous labels that may—but all too often don’t—accurately reflect what their alleged practitioners or adherents actually believe.

    These labels lose their harmlessness, though, when they are used—as they so often are—as terms of disparagement similar in their rancorous intent to racial or sexual slurs. Those who shamelessly sling such epithets consider themselves, of course, to occupy some superior intellectual and spiritual terrain to the targets of their derogation.

    Ironically, revealingly, these sanctimonious accusers are themselves captive of a constellation of -isms that betrays their hypocrisy and reveals them for what they truly are.

    They are unthinking practitioners of an inbred parochialism hiding behind a mask of responsible conservatism.

    They are programmed devotees of religious and ideological dogmatism that regularly mutates even farther into extremism and fanaticism.

    They are prideful adherents of a suffocating moral absolutism that rejects tolerant universalism in favor of anti-intellectual totalitarianism.

    They subscribe to an oppressive theism that they seek to impose, lymphoma-like, on all walks of life.

    They conflate the hypocritical moralism they practice with the true morality they incessantly preach to the rest of us.

    And they espouse an unhealthy patriotism that is nothing but crudely disguised chauvinism and jingoism.

    Anyone who stands in opposition to such antagonists and their -isms should feel a sense of pride and exaltation. Why for a moment, for example, would anyone in her right mind be the least bit uncomfortable or ashamed about being accused of liberalism? Think about it.

    Consider the roots of the word: liberal, liberty, liberate; library even. Why do we call repositories of information that can be converted into knowledge libraries rather than conservatories? Because we’re not just talking about preserving stuff. We’re talking about freeing our minds, our souls, our very selves, from the bondage of ignorance and socialization and oppression and blind obedience to impersonal authority.

    Liberalism is about being open to, even enthusiastic about, change rather than being unalterably wedded to the status quo. It is often about idealism—searching and striving for what could or should be rather than uncreatively perpetuating what is or has always been. It is no less about altruism—concern for The Other as much as, if not more than, The Self.

    What’s wrong with being accused of secularism? Secularism isn’t atheism, notwithstanding the incessant rhetorical drumbeat of the theocrats in our midst, who maliciously equate the two. It isn’t a rejection of an almighty—or even The Almighty. It’s a rejection of the fusion of what’s properly private and what’s properly public. It’s about maintaining that wall of separation between religion and politics, religion and economics, religion and education. It’s about that liberal notion: freedom of, and from, religion.

    What’s wrong with being accused of humanism? Humane, humanity, humanitarian, humanize. You’re human, I’m human, all of us distinguishable from other species by our purportedly unique capability to reason, to make moral judgments, to exercise free will. Why wouldn’t we want to place human well-being at the center of our concerns? Why wouldn’t we want to expect more of humans than we do of other species? Why wouldn’t we want to treat human beings as ends in themselves rather than as mere means? Why wouldn’t we want to accept the self-evident truth that all human beings are created equal in deserving to enjoy their inalienable natural rights?

    What’s wrong with being accused of relativism? If we humans in fact have the capacity to think for ourselves, to reason, to make choices (admittedly dubious propositions where some of us are concerned), then it would seem appropriate, even necessary, to take the inevitable and highly variable differences of circumstance, time, and culture into account in making the decisions that confront us in life. The alternative, absolutism, assumes away such differences as irrelevant and instead calls for imposing one particular “truth”—mine, not yours—on reality. Is that what you want?

    And what’s wrong with being accused of revisionism? That suggests to me a willingness to recognize that the truth of the past is no less tenuous and subject to error, distortion, and manipulation than the truth of the present or future. Those who accuse others of revisionism do so only when their reality is brought into question. They don’t hesitate to endorse revisionism that supports their preconceptions. Nor do they decline to engage in revisionism themselves when it suits their purpose.

    We are surrounded on all sides by our enemies: ourselves. Intolerance to our front. Ignorance to our rear. Irresolution to our Left. Ill-temper to our Right. We attack at dawn.

    Gregory D. Foster is a professor at the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, National Defense University, Washington, D.C., where he previously has served as George C. Marshall Professor and J. Carlton Ward Distinguished Professor and Director of Research. The views expressed here are his own. He can be reached at fosterg@ndu.edu.


  96. Zooey Says:

    #93 - katy, here’s a link
    http://www.ushistory.org/ Declaration/ document/ index.htm

    Scroll down a little, and start with the list of offenses by the King, “He has refused his Assent to Laws…” It’s uncanny.


  97. Democratic Soldier Says:

    #92 - “What will the Democrats do in 2008 if they win the WH to “do something about 911″?”

    You make a very good point. What COULD they do about global terrorism?

    It’s not something we can do all by our one-sies. (Sorry, got my Cpt. Sparrow voice going) It’s something that will require broad international committment. And I’m not just talking “coalition of the billing”, it’s got to include more than 10-20 countries.

    A good rebuttal point would be “So, what have the Republicans done to affect global terrorism? (Other than provide training grounds for their troops in Iraq?)”

    Ideally, we should have a true multi-national force available to close the borders in Iraq and get the violence tuned down. With hundreds of thousands of Americans, a few thousand UK troops, and a smattering of troops from other countires (between 200 and 50), we are so NOT an international force.

    Do you have a real solution other than “keep doing what we’ve been doing that doesn’t quite seem to be working”?


  98. Zooey Says:

    It’s not something we can do all by our one-sies. (Sorry, got my Cpt. Sparrow voice going)
    Comment by Democrat Soldier

    You should always post the voice of Capt Sparrow. :)


  99. unbelievable Says:

    but that doesnt stop the religious nuts from claiming otherwise…
    Comment by Gerald Gibson — July 10, 2006 @ 11:16 am

    I read somewhere that Stalin took away religioun from the Russians simply to weaken them - not because he valued Atheism. Makes sense. A lot of it. Yet, Atheism and Communism (which The Soviet Union was not) get the stigma of being violent.

    Buddhism is the only religion (not actually religion but a philosophy really) that has never claimed war in its name. Hardly makes organized religions ‘moral’.


  100. katy Says:

    gerald - you would have liked gaddy’s interview with Michelle Goldberg discussing her new book, Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism.
    a real eye opener!

    and yes, i agree, that version of “lady liberty” is a REAL abomination…
    the antithesis of the original conception…

    don’t forget to check out OBAMA’s speech…


  101. unbelievable Says:

    STRAWMAN ALERT!

    To pretend that Saddam’s reign was “benevolent” ignores volumes of evidence to the contrary

    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 11:19 am

    I did not say Saddam. I don’t think he was benevolent. I think few dictators in history have been. It was a hypothetical dictator to make a point that voting is not democratic if the candidates and the results are not honest representation.


  102. Chase Says:

    #97 -

    Ideally, we should have a true multi-national force available to close the borders in Iraq and get the violence tuned down.

    I completely agree. However, do you think bringing together such a force is a real possibility? I do not.


  103. katy Says:

    the list of offenses by the King, “He has refused his Assent to Laws…” It’s uncanny.
    Comment by Zooey — July 10, 2006 @ 11:41 am

    oh, that …duh… sorry… yes, i’ve read that… yes “uncanny”…
    but not having been there then, i didn’t get “deja vu”… :-)


  104. Chase Says:

    #101 - Come now: the implication was that Saddam was benevolent. If that was not your intention, it wasn’t clear when you originally posted.

    I think few dictators in history have been.

    Of the few, can you name one? Or two? And these need to be “real” dictatorships, fully representing the characteristics dictators.

    voting is not democratic if the candidates and the results are not honest representation.

    Expand on this, please. Who is to judge whether or not the “candidate or results” are “honest representation[s]” of those that voted. I tend to accept a turnout of 58% of registered voters as representative.

    Maybe (probably) you disagree. Please elaborate.


  105. Krazny Says:

    Lenin advocated the removing of religion under communism. He felt that the russian orthodox church was a tool of the czarist regime, to keep the serfs in line. He was correct in that regard, however removing religion in my opinion was one of the biggest mistakes of the communist party.


  106. Zooey Says:

    but not having been there then, i didn’t get “deja vu”… :-)
    Comment by katy

    Is that an age slam!? ;)


  107. Democratic Soldier Says:

    #102 - I thought we could never get a workable multi-national force together in the first place, and Gulf War One proved me wrong.

    Maybe the problem isn’t with America and multi-national forces. Maybe it’s Pres. Bush and multi-national forces. My personal opinion, mind you. ;-)


  108. katy Says:

    Is that an age slam!? ;)
    Comment by Zooey — July 10, 2006 @ 12:06 pm

    uh… well… neither of us is over 200 years old!
    and i know i’m older that you! so, no, of course not…

    hey, how was the pirate movie?


  109. unbelievable Says:

    Come now: the implication was that Saddam was benevolent. If that was not your intention, it wasn’t clear when you originally posted.

    No it wasn’t. You misread my post. It’s why we put periods between sentances - to show you where one thought stops and another starts.

    I’ve repeatedly said that I thought Saddam was a tyrant. He therefore would not be applicable for use as an exmaple of ‘benevolent’.

    Of the few, can you name one? Or two? And these need to be “real” dictatorships, fully representing the characteristics dictators.

    What? You like to distract from the real issues, don’t you?

    There is nothing here but opinion. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I cannot give you a list of poeple who you would agree were benevolent considering we value different things. My point WAS that you obviously consider Bush’s tyranny acceptable.

    I tend to accept a turnout of 58% of registered voters as representative.
    Maybe (probably) you disagree. Please elaborate.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 11:59 am

    When corporate money sponsors the candidates who are available to be selected from, you aren’t getting the people you choose - but a choice between the people corporate money has chosen for you to choose from.

    If you think Iraqi voted for people freely, and not from a pre-selected list of people, as I said before, you are fooling yourself.

    I recommend books to you… many, many books.


  110. Chase Says:

    #107 - I highly doubt we could get nations to send troops to Iraq at this point, particuarly after seeing the political price those who have participated in Iraq liberation have faced back home.

    It’s just a plain impossibility.


  111. Seixon Says:

    unbelievable liar,

    (Sounds like Seixon referencing Astrologists on the matter of Global Warming. He really did. I swear, I’m not that funny :)

    Yes, and you claimed that the Sun was getting smaller. Do you really want to go there? I wrote the wrong title. Big deal. You, a science teacher, didn’t even know about the Sun. lol.


  112. katy Says:

    yay! i’m excited about this… have been waiting for it to get posted on the site…
    listening to Ring of Fire on AirAmericaRadio sat. and sun. - mike papantonio has a short segment, “The Pap Attack”, and this week’s was good…well, they are ALL good…
    anyway, check it out - Dumbing Down Dixie, at the link above… all you southerners will identify…


  113. unbelievable Says:

    It’s just a plain impossibility.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 12:12 pm

    You mean ‘improbability’. Impossibility is, well, impossible. Divide 1. Then divide it again, and again, and again, etc. You’ll never reach zero. Therefore, the liklihood is improbable and not impossible.

    Add dictionary to your list of books…


  114. Chase Says:

    #109 - I ask you to produce a list of benevolent tyrrants because, alas, such an exercise is impossible. There is no such thing.

    On the other hand, I do not see President Bush as a tyrrant. The most immediate example as to why he is not a tyrrant is that we are permitted to criticize the government with real threat of reprisal. For instance, I can walk up and down the street his afternoon with a sandwich board accusing President Bush of war crimes and I won’t end up in a gulag or secret prison in Romania (despite the hyperbolic fears of some nutcases around here). Jump in your time machine and try the same thing in Baghdad circa 1994, Moscow in 1954, in Tehran today.

    President Bush may be a weak leader and a less than commendable communicator but he is no tyrrant.


  115. Chase Says:

    #113 -

    Add dictionary to your list of books…

    And you can add a grammar guide to your required reading. Like this one.

    Let’s not be a dick over minutia.


  116. unbelievable Says:

    Damn Seixon, I wasn’t expecting you and read your childish post. Yuck! Thanks a lot for that mouth full of crap.. Gross…

    In terms of mass, the sun IS shrinking. I didn’t say it was getting smaller phyisically (as you can still arrange a few quadrillion atoms in the same foot print as a few octillion atoms). I said that when 4 hydrogen atoms are fused into 1 helium atom, that the sun loses mass. This is a correct and factual statement, and I stand by it.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

    The fact that you insist on using a 5th grade Science fact to try to ridicule me actually makes you look like an even bigger ass than someone who could possibly confuse an Astrologer with an Atronomer…

    I taught Science. In a couple weeks, I’ll be teaching Architecture - which has a scientific component called Physicas. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?

    I did a little parody of you on the global warming thread from yesterday. Seriously - don’t actually go read the Flat Earth stuff. It’s obscure and ridiculous enough for you to fall for it.


  117. Gerald Gibson Says:

    What will the Democrats do in 2008 if they win the WH to “do something about 911″?

    Comment by Chase

    I have no clue… Either they have no clue either or they cannot say because doing so would show their hand before the game begins … I wish I knew someone on the inside of the democrats so I could know if they have a plan or not…


  118. Seixon Says:

    unbelievable liar,

    Democratic? Saddam held elections too…

    Yes, rigged ones. What’s your point? None as usual?

    You’re nuts if you think the Iraq is truly holding Democratic elections.

    Because?

    I have little doubt after reading the evidence that Bush stole two elections and simply passed that knowledge to Calderon.

    Such as?

    Look at what we’ve set a precedent for… How appalling.

    You think it’s appalling for Japan to defend itself from an imminent threat to their country? Ehmm… OK?

    If you think Iraqi voted for people freely, and not from a pre-selected list of people, as I said before, you are fooling yourself.

    Because? Who pre-selected the list of people?


  119. Gerald Gibson Says:

    I can walk up and down the street his afternoon with a sandwich board accusing President Bush of war crimes and I won’t end up in a gulag or secret prison in Romania

    -Chase

    The same thing was true in Germany in the 1920s/30s … at first you would only lose your job …which is possible in America today …. next comes harsher treatment … and then harsher … this is how a witch hunting frenzy builds up … Hitler didnt make Germany go 180 over night …


  120. unbelievable Says:

    Let’s not be a dick over minutia.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 12:22 pm

    But that is EXACTLY what you do. And was my point in that post. Getting you te see why your side frustrates us in this regard. Glad to see it worked.


  121. Seixon Says:

    unbelievable liar,

    In terms of mass, the sun IS shrinking. I didn’t say it was getting smaller phyisically (as you can still arrange a few quadrillion atoms in the same foot print as a few octillion atoms). I said that when 4 hydrogen atoms are fused into 1 helium atom, that the sun loses mass. This is a correct and factual statement, and I stand by it.

    You said it was getting smaller and that it was getting colder, both of which are not exactly true. The Sun will get a lot hotter in about 4.5 billion years and is not getting colder or smaller due to hydrostatic balance, as I showed with Wikipedia. Oh well.


  122. Gerald Gibson Says:

    You think it’s appalling for Japan to defend itself from an imminent threat to their country? Ehmm… OK?

    Comment by Seixon

    Imminent? Like NeoCon Imminent? Or the dictionary version of Imminent? Have any proof of the dictionary version of Imminent? Or is it you are using the NeoCon version of Imminent so you can make up proof?


  123. Chase Says:

    at first you would only lose your job …which is possible in America today

    Maybe, but not because the government tells your boss “fire this dissident”. If you were fired, you would have action under the First Amendment available to you.

    Either way, I was talking about the punishment the government would have dished out and the point was dissent in the United States is accepted and, to some degree, encouraged. In real tyrranies, you can be sure the government would be as accepting.


  124. Zooey Says:

    hey, how was the pirate movie?
    Comment by katy

    It was good, I enjoyed it. I think they put every single pirate gag they could think of in the movie. Obviously there will be a third movie, you’ll see why if you go. The effects were fantastic. trueblue gave a hint about “toes,” ICK!! The theater was PACKED. There were a lot of little kids there, which I wouldn’t have done. It’s long, so take your seat cushion and settle in with provisions (sneak them in, of course). ;)


  125. Seixon Says:

    Gerald,

    NoKo has nuclear weapons. NoKo has an assortment of long-range missiles. NoKo fired a Taepodong-1 missile over Japan in 1998. The Taepodong-1 missile can carry a nuclear warhead.

    Do the math.


  126. Gerald Gibson Says:

    Comment by Chase

    Chase. … you dont want to fight Tyrrany AFTER it has already taken over the government … by then it is too late… and considering the good republicans will not speak out against the bad ones that means we are very close to that now. At first they let the businesses get away with firing people … then banks wont work with you … then signs are put on the front of your business or home … then “thug gangs” torch your car but are never caught (because the police are not looking for them) … THEN the government makes it all official…. then you are screwed.


  127. Gerald Gibson Says:

    NoKo has nuclear weapons. NoKo has an assortment of long-range missiles. NoKo fired a Taepodong-1 missile over Japan in 1998. The Taepodong-1 missile can carry a nuclear warhead.

    Do the math.

    Comment by Seixon

    USSR can kill all life on earth with Nukes and Biologic weapons .. and this has been “imminent” for 60 years … you do the math…


  128. Chase Says:

    Seixon - If I were Japan, I would be concerned. But I would probably tone down the rhetoric, considering the Kim’s goals are not an actual war but food, fuel and fertilzer.

    One of the better ideas I’ve read thus far: here.


  129. unbelievable Says:

    ask you to produce a list of benevolent tyrrants because, alas, such an exercise is impossible. There is no such thing.

    Sure it IS possible. Just like you can produce a list of foods you find tasy. Or a list of cars you find appealing. Or a list of other things you personally find ‘good’. We just won’t agree. And therefore, while possible, it is subjective.

    King Wenceslas… Ever heard of him? We could start there.

    On the other hand, I do not see President Bush as a tyrrant.

    This shocks me. The man has bropken over 750 laws and wiped his feet on the Constitution and yet you think he is law abiding (the opposite of tyrannical)?

    The most immediate example as to why he is not a tyrrant is that we are permitted to criticize the government with real threat of reprisal.

    This week. When that changes, will you change your mind?

    There’s much more to it than simply teh freedom of speech, which I’m not so sure we have. Look what happens to those who public criticize this regime? Their wives get outted in covert jobs and they get arrested for protesting at the White House.

    I’d say we’re getting closer to Bloody Sunday Part 2 than you realize.

    For instance, I can walk up and down the street his afternoon with a sandwich board accusing President Bush of war crimes and I won’t end up in a gulag or secret prison in Romania (despite the hyperbolic fears of some nutcases around here).

    Then doit. But don’t just do it for an audience of those who don’t matter. Put it in writing and mail it to Bush. Let’s see how long it takes for you to get a tax audit.

    Jump in your time machine and try the same thing in Baghdad circa 1994, Moscow in 1954, in Tehran today.

    Or jump in yours and go to United States circa 2010…

    President Bush may be a weak leader and a less than commendable communicator but he is no tyrrant.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 12:18 pm

    I’ll help you out with that (courtesy http://www.dictionary.com):

    ty-rant
    An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions. (Bush? Yes. He’s broken over 750 laws.)

    A ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner. (Bush? Yes. he’s caused the deaths of tens of thousands of people so far in Iraq)

    An oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person. (Bush? Yes. Do you really need an explanation?)


  130. Evil Spaniard Says:

    #125 NoKo has nuclear weapons. NoKo has an assortment of long-range missiles. NoKo fired a Taepodong-1 missile over Japan in 1998. The Taepodong-1 missile can carry a nuclear warhead. - Saucisson

    USA has nuclear weapons. USA has the more long-range missiles in the world. USA bombed TWICE a country with nuclear bombs. The thousands of missiles of can carry a nuclear warhead.

    Do your math. Bush is worse than Kim Jong Il


  131. Chase Says:

    #126 - That’s the slipperiest slope I’ve ever seen.


  132. Ho Chi Minh Says:

    #88; You told it like it is man, f*cking-A straight.


  133. unbelievable Says:

    and, to some degree, encouraged.
    Comment by Chase — July 10, 2006 @ 12:39 pm

    Prove that. Because reality shows that Bush does not read or listen to the news (watching the news is no longer possible since entertainment took it over - except on Comedy Central), or care about what people think by ignoring opinion polls.

    They’ve repeatedly said that that are going to do what they are going to do because THEY think it’s right no matter what anyone else thinks. Not sure how that is encouraging dissent… Unless today is opposite day or something neoconnish like that.


  134. Gerald Gibson Says:

    #126 - That’s the slipperiest slope I’ve ever seen.

    Comment by Chase

    Read “mein kampf” … read about how the german people responded to it… read about all the day in day out details of how germany got sucked into Nazism … slippery? You bet … it MUST be or else normally good people will not let it go on…


  135. katy Says:

    that’s rich”
    “Let Beijing resolve the North Korean crisis.”

    such a neocon attitude to have… reminds me of al franken’s take on what they think of iraq - (to paraphrase) “hey, we got you into this mess, now it’s up to someone else to figure it out”

    and, no, i didn’t read the article, chase… the title said enough for me…


  136. Gerald Gibson Says:

    Hitlers … “mein kampf” praised the USA for how it delt with certain issues … all those same issues are the ones trumpted by Americas right wing factions… ignorance is NO excuse …. if the spirit of America is to be maintained people MUST understand the warning signs.


  137. unbelievable Says:

    Seixon,

    I see you’ve written back, but this time, I just scrolled on past…


  138. madashell Says:

    How twisted is this: Dow is PROUD of this fact…

    Did you know…
    Dow is responsible for the birth of the modern environmental movement. The 1962 book Silent Spring, about the side-effects of DDT, a Dow product, led to the birth of many of today’s environmental action groups.


  139. madashell Says:

    and then there’s this (from their website) - SIMPLY HEARTLESS

    As a publicly owned corporation, Dow is unable, due to share-price concerns, to accept any responsibility for the Bhopal catastrophe caused by our fully owned subsidiary, Union Carbide. As an individual, however, you can help as your conscience dictates: visit Bhopal.net or Bhopal.org.


  140. Chase Says:

    #129 - By “King Wenceslas”, you mean Duke Wenceslas of Bohemia, right? The Christian Saint? I’m shocked, shocked to see you cite a Christian martyr. However, I just don’t think Duke Wenceslas qualifies as a tyrrant.

    This week. When that changes, will you change your mind?

    Absolutely. Without hesitation.


  141. unbelievable Says:

    Gerald - excellent posts, as usual! The neocons forget that Nazi Germany, like the Roman Empire, was not built overnight - just because they can read a paragraph about it in 15 minutes. Well, they also seem to fail to understand that neither will the American Empire be built in a day.

    Better to fight it now with ballots than to have to fight with bullets like our forefathers did…


  142. Gerald Gibson Says:

    This week. When that changes, will you change your mind?

    Absolutely. Without hesitation.

    Comment by Chase

    http://www.nctimes.com/ articles/ 2006/ 03/ 09/ news/ sandiego/ 20_24_273_8_06.txt


  143. Chase Says:

    #133 - or care about what people think by ignoring opinion polls.

    I actually appreciate this quality. I would explain, but you wouldn’t understand. And what’s more, encouraging dissent doesn’t mean that every last proposal will be followed and executed.

    #135 - and, no, i didn’t read the article

    I can implore you to read it. It’s not very “neoconnish” - in fact it supportive of multinationalism. Don’t be so close minded.


  144. Seixon Says:

    Gerald,

    Has the USSR/Russia expressed a desire to use their nuclear weapons lately? Have they threatened to use them? No. You’re basically trying to equate a madman with an assault rifle and a crooked police officer.

    unbelievable liar,

    The man has bropken over 750 laws and wiped his feet on the Constitution and yet you think he is law abiding (the opposite of tyrannical)?

    100% BS. You’re a propaganda dupe, as usual.

    This week. When that changes, will you change your mind?

    LOL. Weren’t you the one claiming “we” based everything on fear? Here you are pretending that Bush is going to revoke your right to dissent next week. He hasn’t done so for almost 6 years, but he’ll probably do it next week! Yup! Man you people are one crazy lot.

    There’s much more to it than simply teh freedom of speech, which I’m not so sure we have. Look what happens to those who public criticize this regime? Their wives get outted in covert jobs and they get arrested for protesting at the White House.

    You’re not sure you have freedom of speech? LOL. Wilson’s wife did not get outed. Every single reporter involved in the deal says there was no crime committed. You ignore this at your own peril. Protesting at the White House? Please, I’ve seen tons of pictures of people doing that without anything happening. There are people protesting in front of the White House every single day. People have been arrested but you are leaving out the details disingenuously.

    I’d say we’re getting closer to Bloody Sunday Part 2 than you realize.

    Sure we are, sure we are. How long have you been saying this? 3-4 years? You’re going to keep saying it until 2009 without it ever happening because you are fixed on scaring yourself into hating Bush.

    Let’s see how long it takes for you to get a tax audit.

    LOL. Watch out, what’s that behind you? It’s Bush! AAAAH!

    Or jump in yours and go to United States circa 2010…

    Yea, let’s. I’m pretty confident that you are 100% wrong because you are infested with irrational partisan hate-mongering fear.

    (Bush? Yes. He’s broken over 750 laws.)

    No, he hasn’t, you complete idiot. Bush couldn’t even get Harriet Miers on the bench. Some power he has. lol

    (Bush? Yes. he’s caused the deaths of tens of thousands of people so far in Iraq)

    So did JFK, but I’m guessing you won’t call him a tyrant because you’re a partisan hackjob.

    I’m still waiting for you to prove a single thing you have said about… well, anything. Iraq’s democracy. Bush breaking 750 laws. Anything. You can’t back up any of it because you are a pathological liar hooked on an irrational fear of Bush like a drugee on crack.


  145. katy Says:

    somebody please tell unbelievable to listen to the Pap Attack that i posted in #112 - i was hoping to get her reaction especially, as a southerner… but she “ignores” my posts… thanks!
    i will understand that she was just not interested if i don’t read an opinion about it… good enough…
    any other southerners around?


  146. Seixon Says:

    unbelievable,

    I see you’ve written back, but this time, I just scrolled on past…

    That’s because you’re a chickenshit pathological liar.


  147. Chase Says:

    #142 - Wanna bet on the outcome of the suit? She will either be reinstated or she will win a huge settlement.

    In any event, this wasn’t my original point (but I don’t expect you to appreciate nuance). I meant, and still mean, we can criticize the government without the government imprisioning us. Of cou