Legal Advocate For Torture Being Considered For Top Judicial Post
Legal Advocate For Torture Being Considered For Top Judicial Post
The Financial Times reports this morning that the Pentagon, guided by General Counsel William Haynes, recently reversed course and decided that all detainees held in U.S. military custody are entitled to protection under the Geneva Conventions. The timing of the announcement appears in part to have been guided by an administration effort to build support for Haynes, whose nomination to sit on the 4th Circuit was taken up by the Senate Judiciary Committee today.
Haynes — who is strongly backed by Vice President Cheney — has been described as a “prime mover†in the effort to contravene the dictates of the Geneva Convention with respect to the interrogation of prisoners. A 2003 working group appointed and supervised by Haynes argued the Geneva Conventions “must be construed as inapplicable to interrogations undertaken pursuant to [Bush’s] Commander-in-Chief authority.” That position, as applied to military commissions, was repudiated by the Supreme Court in the recent Hamdan decision.
A group of 20 retired military leaders recently wrote to Sens. Arlen Specter and Patrick Leahy to express their “deep concern” about the nominee (Read it HERE):
Had Mr. Haynes been ignorant of the likely consequences of these policies, the profound errors he made could perhaps be understood. But the uniformed JAGs of each of the services clearly and repeatedly expressed their concerns about the impact these policies would have both on the reputation of the United States and on the integrity and safety of military personnel. … These prescient warnings were echoed by the flag officer Judge Advocates General of the Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps. But Mr. Haynes failed to heed them.
Writing in a separate letter, former Judge Advocate General of the Navy John Hutson argued, “If civilian leadership of the military means anything at all, it must mean there is accountability for failures such as his.†Read it HERE.
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We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture. We’re against torture. We’re for torture.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:19 pmYou know, I hope God tortures Chenney, Rumsfeld and Bush, in Hell, so they can feel what it’s like to be tortured.
Those pieces of shit setup a neo-gestapo, that has tortured more innocent people than Terrorists.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:25 pmThis is a Fox News government. Check the background banner.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:25 pmThis story is still not interesting to me. Even if the Fed’s are violating the rights of terrorists by dpriving them of sleep, humiliating them, and even using physical punishments, I simply don’t care much. If they are in facat doing that, it is wrong. While wrong, it just isn’t interesting. I care much more about tommorrow’s weather as opposed to how we treat captured terrorist’s.
I guess in the future, the Fed’s should just execute them in the field so we don’t have to put them all in a Hilton later on. Simple solution to this problem if you ask me!
July 11th, 2006 at 4:26 pmCaption Contest:
”You should see what I’m doing with my right hand behind this lectern.”
July 11th, 2006 at 4:28 pmSecret Prisons + Gulag (GITMO) + indefinite incarceration = Stalinist State
July 11th, 2006 at 4:29 pmPay back!
July 11th, 2006 at 4:29 pmGood is bad, black is white, and torture is legal.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:31 pmOr it’s not… but who cares.
Do it anyway, to hell with the law, the effectiveness, or the morality of it.
Yeah, this is just the sort of guy we need on our courts, someone who will undermine our laws and make way for the fascist regime he prays for.
I’d personally rather see Donald Duck on the court. ol’ Donald would do less damage to our country.
But again, who’s appointed him? Who, underneath all this, is the real traitor to our country?
#5 Bingo: My guess is he’s about to spunk all over the constitution.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:32 pmThis headline by TP is total bull. The man was not an advocate for torture. He was an advocate for not affording the jihadists detained in Guantanamo Geneva Convention status. Most of the country shares agrees with him. Affording these terrorist animals protection under the Geneva Convention is an insult to any of us who have fought lawfully and with honor by the rules of the Geneva Convention. But to call Haynes an advocate of torture is a distortion of the facts. But then again, fact distortion and spin is the norm at TP.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:33 pm#10, I’d recommend you read the two letters linked in the post.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:36 pmWell, dah! We are the good guys and they are the bad guys. As simple as Steven Spielberg would put it.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:36 pm#10 TP=TS: Well, if that’s the case then what the hell are you doing here?
July 11th, 2006 at 4:37 pmHonestly,
Lets just execute all captured terrorist’s from now on as the Left doesn’t want us to us them for information anyways. I am serious, just put a bullet through the heads of each terrorist we catch so the american media can save the time they would have spent talking about the importance of terrorist rights and move on to interesting news.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:39 pm#10
the geneva convention applies to our treatment of others. everyone on the planet does not have to sign it. if the bush crime family drags you out of your neoconservative hovel and locks you to the inside of a box car for seven years because you are posting on think progress with all us crazy radicals, then, you would be hoping that you were given the opportunity to have a day in front of a minimally, at least, fair tribunal, no?????
at least read something about the geneva conventions before you blather your silly hatred for humanity on here, kthnx.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:41 pmYou know,
There have been way too many stories of people found innocent, after being held in GITMO or secret prisons, and tortured. They had simply had a similar name as someone on the watch list.
Even if the terrorists deserve it, we shouldn’t do it, because it’s wrong, and it doesn’t work.
The stories I heard from Palestinians, tortured in Israeli prisons kept me from sleeping for weeks. And many of them told me that they had confessed and gotten prison term, just because they got to a point where they would rather spend a few years in prison, than a few more days of torture, even though they were innocent.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:42 pmGary, that’s brilliant. You should be a member of the president’s war cabinet. You’d fit right in.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:43 pmCaption Contest:
‘’You should see what I’m doing with my right hand behind this lectern.’’
Comment by Bingo ! — July 11, 2006 @ 4:28 pm
From the looks of the measurement he’s indicating with his left hand, it doesn’t look like it’s all that big.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:43 pmGary,
how much information is a guy held in captivity for four years going to be able to give?
This isn’t really about whether we care if they are imprisoned, it’s about torture. We (the US) are better then that. You have been watching to many Schwarzenegger movies. In real life you don’t torture the bad guy for the nuc bomb combo, and save the world. Go be sociopathic somewhere else you useless turd. You have been crapping all over the threads today, and haven’t contributed a goddam thing. Go back over to Redstate and get into a circle jerk with the boys over there.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:43 pmHave they recently editted all 32+ versions of the Bible to remove the line about doing unto others as you’d have them do unto you?
July 11th, 2006 at 4:44 pmoh, and by the way, add this ass-clown to the list of recess appointments… dick gets his way, always!
i am guessing that john bolton, the fascist of the un, and c. boyden gray will likely be recess appointments; the former for the second time around.
letters are great and i am glad to see them, but, with these nazis, it will do no good.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:45 pm#19 Krazny: I bet Gary calls himself a Christian too.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:46 pmFaiz-
I DID read the letter by the arm-chair quarterback flag officers. I don’t need to read the other. What these gentlemen consider to be torture is ridiculous. The use of dogs to captitalize on the phobias of prisioners? Please! Oh no! We scared the poor prisioners! God-forbid we hurt their feelings. I don’t think the terrorists care very much about scaring whoever they have last kidnapped when they saw his head off with a dull knife, after they have beaten and REALLY tortured him for days. Leftist wackos in this country won’t be satisfied until they completely deny the ability of our law enforcement and military the ability to extract any useful information from anyone we arrest or detain.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:46 pmAh yes. Forget about innocent until proven guilty. Someone looks supicious, lock ‘em up. Someone said they did it, they’re guilty all right. Suspects aren’t allowed to prove their innocence in the right-wing version of America. If we don’t stand up for the rights of the accused, there will be no one left to stand up when they come for us.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:47 pmI wonder if Gary and the rest would be so disinterested in treatment of prisoners, if it they had a family member being held as an enemy combatant?
July 11th, 2006 at 4:50 pmTorture is not only against the Geneva Convention, it is against USLaw
I do not see an exception made in the case of torturing terrorists.
All you Trolls, either you for law and order, or you are not.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C > § 2340A
§ 2340A. Torture
(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ uscode/ html/ uscode18/ usc_sec_18_00002340—A000-.html
July 11th, 2006 at 4:54 pmWho Would Jesus Torture?
July 11th, 2006 at 4:54 pmWe detain terrorist to get information out of them that will allow us to kill more terrorist. If the Fed’s can no longer get information out of detained terrorist’s, then we have no reason to detain them. So, we should simply kill them where they stand as detaining them in the future will not net us more terrorists.
Seems like simple logic to me.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:55 pm#23 ToiletPaper=TalkShit: You really believe the Bush Administration’s bullshit, don’t you? Their propaganda has definitely worked on you. Your paranoia has turned you into a whacko that now believes it’s OK to beat and/or torture anyone for “useful information” about anything.
Let us know what you think about that position when the neo-gestapo stormtroopers come to arrest your neighbor, but mistakenly burst through your door instead and terrorize and beat you senseless until… uh, sorry sir, wrong house.
July 11th, 2006 at 4:58 pmi agree with gary and the think stupid guy…in fact, they sound kinda hot :)
yes, i say kill anyone with a funny last name. we don’t need trials, we don’t need to be humans. we are americans, dammit!!! we are better than human!!! we are the uber race. bush uber alles!
and, if you two guys want to get some anny-candy, just drop me a line, okay?
kisses,
ann
July 11th, 2006 at 4:58 pm#28 Gary: You got the ’simple’ part right. The ‘logic’ part just doesn’t seem to fit your profile.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:00 pm#10 TP=TS sounds familiar…
July 11th, 2006 at 5:01 pmi think that’s sexion’s line…
#26-
The methods and techniques used by agents of the United States during interrogation of suspected terrorists have not, do not, and never will amount to anything resembling torture. WE DON’T TORTURE ANYONE. Only leftist kooks like all the people in here would consider our interrogation techniques to be torture. Please, somebody in here produce an account of what you would consider to be torture. And don’t reference that letter written by those nitwit retired general and admirals. If those idiots had any personal courage or integrity, they would have come forth when it would have been the most effective - while they were still on active duty. They are cowards, all of them, and if the best they can do is complain about the use of dogs to scare prisioners, then they should be ignored.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:02 pmreading further, maybe not… sure sound familiar…
July 11th, 2006 at 5:04 pm#30-
See my #34 post. Same goes for you. WE DON’T TORTURE ANYONE. Only wussie liberal wackos like you consider our interrogation techniques to be torture.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:05 pm#34
yes, listen to the think stupid guy… this report from human rights watch regarding guantanamo is filled with left-wing, godless lies!!! do not click on it, because if you do, you will be with the terrorists!
i say, just kill them all and feed them to iraqi children for lunch. do you know how much an mre is???
kisses,
ann
July 11th, 2006 at 5:07 pmkaty,
you don’t think the norwegian would take on a different persona and pretend to be someone else do you???
how could anyone do that!
July 11th, 2006 at 5:09 pmWater boarding … ?
Honestly, if anyone thinks that torture works as an effective way to gain useable information, you really, really, really, really need help …
Seriously. See a professional.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:10 pmI actually think they may have a point on this terrorism thing. This is the only time I actually agree with the Bush administration. It’s the only time so just relax.
Comment by unbelievable — July 11, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
Someone is using my name and writing a lot of nonsense I would never say.
I’m guessing Sybil or Seixon. They are the two least mature trolls going.
TP are you going to do anything about this?
July 11th, 2006 at 5:11 pmhey, think stupid guy, it looks like ann has done so, or are you afraid to click on the link, you human-hating neoconservative zealot?
July 11th, 2006 at 5:13 pm#37-
Liberal (Human) Rights Watch is one of the most biased, left-wing, wacked-out organizations in the world. If you are looking for an objective source of information, you won’t get it there. I’ve seen the crap they have published, and it is full of here-say and uncorroborated witness accounts, many of which are out-right lies, by the very terrorists who are detained at Gitmo. What a joke. It is like asking GreenPeace to give an an objective report on Global Warming. Please.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:14 pmright on think stupid guy. it is as silly as going to the foot doctor for a broken toe, or, going to the grocery store for frozen pizza… geez! why can’t these progressive fools see the light, think stupid guy?
when are you coming over?
kisses,
ann
July 11th, 2006 at 5:16 pm#38-
I see you have chosen the technique that was used only in a handful of cases, but was blown-up by the liberal media. In your opinion, then, waterboarding is torture, eh? I have a different interpretation, and so do most rational people. Waterboarding doesn’t permanently maim or harm the individual, and really causes no physical injury. Water-aspiration is the only thing that could potentially harm the person. Besides, use of water-boarding was exceedingly rare. You libs made such a stink about it, that we had to end the use of this highly-effective technique.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:22 pm#42-
Are you actually trying to say the L(H)RW is NOT a left-wing, anti-American organization? Can you say that with a straight face, honestly? Then you might as well say that the ACLU is conservative.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:26 pmyes, complaining about water-boarding is for pussies!
i mean, come on, so you nearly drown, where is the harm there…you don’t REALLY drown….
and besides, i think it is kinda hot :) what do you think think stupid guy?
kisses,
ann
July 11th, 2006 at 5:27 pmoh, no, i agree with you completely. when i get foot pain, i go to sears; and when i want a sandwich i go to ace hardware. i certainly think human rights is an out-moded, quaint idea that at best applies to white people.
you didn’t click on that link, did you???
kisses,
ann
July 11th, 2006 at 5:30 pmThikstupid,
well if water boarding isn’t that bad, why don’t you come over to my house and we’ll have some fun waterboarding together.
You can even bring your friends with you, to make sure that the waterboarding I practice on you will be as merciful as the one practiced by the CIA
July 11th, 2006 at 5:31 pmand look at this nonsense about the aclu!!! come on, how can anyone defend these left-wing whacko ideas????
god, it makes my white skin crawl to hear such godlessness!
July 11th, 2006 at 5:32 pmI do not see how mistreatment of people who may or may not be guilty of any crimes helps the U.S. From what I have heard information extracted under duress is inherently suspect because people will say anything to relieve the duress–note I am not trying to define torture but only duress. I would last a lot longer with people pulling out my fingernails than I would with someone threatening me with a snake or threatening my family(which is apparantly one of our techniques in Iraq). More important than the fact that duress does not work very well and certainly not as well as the buddy system of interrogation where over time you basically “turn” these guys, the use of duress has resulted in the U.S. surrendering the moral high ground. Instead of actually being the envy of the world with ideals that all but the truly evil would seek to emulate, we are just another thug on the block albeit the thug with the most sophisticated weapons systems. Are terrorists evil people? Of course they are and I have no sympathy for them, but everyone of them was a baby once and over time that baby grew into a child and ultimately an adult. At some point in the process, for some reason, everyone of those terrorists became convinced that terror was a legitimate means of seeking their goals. To be sure if the U.S. were truly the world’s shining light of liberty, democracy and decency, terrorism against America would not abrubtly end, but it would be more difficult to convince those children and young adults that we are the Great Satan and that they should blow themselves up simply to strike back at us.When we subject people to duress, espescially after invading a sovereign nation, we make it easy for the recruiters and clerics to convince these people that there is no more noble way to die than fighting U.S. interests America has never lived up to its ideals–slavery was legal here for most of our country’s first hundred years , we committed geonocide against the indigenous people because we wanted their land and some had the termerity to resist, we engaged in the firebombing of civilan populations in World War II and remain the only nation to use atomic weapons. We incarcerated our own citizens for no reason other than their ancestry, we execute more people than any other country besides China and Vietnam. We have a large fundamentalist population which would deny women rights which women take for granted in most Western societies, the medical care we afford our poor is third world and both our elections and our politicians are corrupt. That being said, Dumbya’s administration is the first in my memory to refuse even lip service to those ideals. I at least am ashamed and embarrassed that people like Haynes who should know better have acted as enablers for Dumbya. Sure we are at war, but I think a country’s character is judged the same way as a person’s–Its not what you do when times are good, its what you do when times are tough. By that standard, I am not very proud of my country.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:32 pmWow … just … um … yeah.
I have just one comment:
Those who are willing to give up everything that they stand for, just for the sake of winning, will wind up becoming that which they are trying to destroy.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:38 pm#41 -
Marvelous. Finally we have here think stupid guy to set the record straight. Cause like we have our IPACs and PNACs thinkin’ tanks and our fightin’ boys at tha Pentagon for them human investigatons to do them gob-smacketey right and proper like after they shoot all them A-rabs right between their beady eyes. Human-Right, get it! Hyak, Hyak! And for all them meltin’ ice-bergs we got our fine scientists from Texaco and Shell to tell us how them things really are. And these our scientists give hot damned hot-dogs and lip-licking mustard and BEER, man, BEER, at them Global Wormin’ debunkering seminars. What kind of stupid Librul idea is that anywho, Global Wormin’? Have anyone even seen one of em Worms? Didn’t think so! And unlike them hippie GreeenThumbs Peaceniks, these our fine learnin’ meetings got like cool chicks, shwag and stuff. You are sooo right man, when will them Libruls figure them apples out? Stupid Libruls.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:38 pmkaty,
i agree…the think stupid guy sounds too much like the norwegian to not be the norwegian, or a closely associated sub-troll.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:39 pm#50 - We create what we fear.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:40 pmPeople who advocate torture and believe it has any place in this world should be tortured, until they are forced to condemn torture. Then we can say “see? Torture doesn’t work”.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:43 pmyou are what you eat… ah-so, grasshopper…
July 11th, 2006 at 5:43 pmkaty or James,
Either of you have any idea who is impersonating unbelievable? The style seems familiar, but I’ve not been able to work it out. I don’t think it’s Sybil or Seixon, because both of them would be right in her face, and would want her to know it. Thoughts?
July 11th, 2006 at 5:43 pm#55 - I hate grasshoppers, they’re too hard to catch.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:45 pmZoo,
I think it is sybil. I don’t seixon would stoop to copying someone else. He is too egotistical to give up his own name.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:46 pmKrazny, I can’t help thinking it’s someone more insidious. I hope TP just does something about it, because it’s disturbing.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:48 pmit is not as snappy as the norwegian…i think, as katy, intuited, that the think stupid guy is more norwegian.
i am not familiar enough with unbelievable’s work to say…and, i don’t remember ever seeing a sybil….sorry.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:48 pm#54-
Again, it all comes back to the question of whether we have actually tortured anyone. I don’t support torture. It is wrong. Our techniques have tortured no one. Is water-boarding unpleasant? Of course. Is it torture? I don’t think so, but it does push the envelope.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:49 pmSince some people apparently don’t know the definition of “torture†…
Of course, I’m sure someone will reply that Merriam Webster was a liberal …
July 11th, 2006 at 5:51 pm#58 makes an excellent point. i agree that he would not take someone else’s name and run with it….
but, i think he would make up a guy, like the think stupid guy and post with a new persona….
July 11th, 2006 at 5:52 pmKaty and Risser-
I’m not norwegian. Please, do I sound like a socialist to you?
July 11th, 2006 at 5:52 pmThanks, Krazny, James and, um…michelle.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:52 pm# 39.unbelievable:
Not me.by Judd,not me.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:54 pm#63-
I’ve been rocking this name for awhile now. I’m never taken anyone else’s name. That is cowardly.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:55 pmZooey (#57)–
I like that one. Of course, the one I posted was one I came up with, so I’m a bit partial to it.
:-)
July 11th, 2006 at 5:58 pmThinkStupid:
you still haven’t responded to my invitation for waterboarding.
What’s wrong. Too chicken to try it out. That suggests that it’s something bad, if you don’t want to try it out.
I see you have a classic case of ChickenHawk.
and let me guess:
You want the U.S. Army to liberate countries, while you are not willing to enlist.
Yup, just like I thought.
July 11th, 2006 at 5:58 pmoh, to all you swarmy left-wing wackos…. the norwegian boy has been in my ‘care’ for the past several hours, and, is not impersonating anyone at the moment….
he was impersonating a goat about an hour ago :)
yours,
mm
July 11th, 2006 at 6:01 pm#69-
Dude, I’m IN the army. What about you? I’ve done my share of liberating. Did I want to? Not really. I don’t give a fig about the Iraqis. Their shitty, 7th century culture is not worth one single American life. But, I do believe in exterminating terrorists. If we have to waterboard a few jihadists along the way, so be it.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:03 pm# 56.Zooey:
I asked the admin.in a previous thread to delete all my comments(as Si Byl) if I was imitating unbelievable.It is not me.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:03 pmkaty and the z-man
this sounds just like someone else, no?
July 11th, 2006 at 6:07 pm#73-
Yeah, that’s me. What’s your point?
July 11th, 2006 at 6:10 pmok… i’ve no idea who’s who… but, i remember reading a post where sybil asked to be removed if it was her posts “imitating” un - and then i couldn’t find those posts, and then there she is #66…
July 11th, 2006 at 6:11 pmand the thinkstupid poser sounds familiar but can’t place it… but it says it’s been that way for a while…
i wish it were possible to ignore them all…
#75-
The reason I sound familiar is because I’ve been blowing peoples mind’s on this left-wing propaganda blog for a long time. Get used to it. It won’t stop.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:16 pmAlright,self righteous katy:
I said that in the green thread just below,and my comments are still there.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:19 pmThat proves my case.
Now I’ll ignore you,you little twat.
TP = TS = IRI
Although I could be wrong (have been already once today … )
July 11th, 2006 at 6:23 pm#
#75-
The reason I sound familiar is because I’ve been blowing peoples mind’s on this left-wing propaganda blog for a long time. Get used to it. It won’t stop.
Comment by ThinkProgress=ThinkStupid — July 11, 2006 @ 6:16 pm
The usual delusions of adequacy from the pro-bush crowd. Sorry man you haven’t been blowing my mind. If you have been blowing something, I hope your army buddys pay you well for the service.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:26 pmwow, i get banned and posts deleted for saying things and i have never said anything so vile as #77…go figure.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:26 pmI like that one. Of course, the one I posted was one I came up with, so I’m a bit partial to it.
:-)
Comment by Unholy Moses
I understand completely. ;)
July 11th, 2006 at 6:29 pm# 7. Zooey:
I think I’m starting know what ‘Pay back !’ really means.
Emmett and Nino were just talking amongst themselves in the middle of the night.
Good one!
July 11th, 2006 at 6:29 pmNo compared to IRI; TP=TS is lucid, well thought out, articulate.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:30 pmIt is not me.
Comment by Si Byl
I saw that. I didn’t think it was you.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:31 pmhey, sybil… guess i should have elaborated… i said that you asked for your posts to be deleted (i got the thread mixed up tho) and then you showed up again so, obviously, it couldnt’ have been you…
July 11th, 2006 at 6:32 pmbut, sure, ignore me… as if…
yes, i don’t get the impression that think stupid spits on himself when he speaks the way i imagine iri does. and i think the latter uses crayons when he writes letters… if he is anyone, he is a subdued norwegian, but, he may be a real person…only tp knows for sure.
July 11th, 2006 at 6:33 pmjames - can you post the LINK to this:
Comment by ThinkProgress = ThinkStupid — July 6, 2006 @ 4:55 pm
Comment by james risser — July 11, 2006 @ 6:07 pm
however you found that, go back and click on the time and copy the address it goes to…
July 11th, 2006 at 6:36 pmthanks
if you insist [link]
July 11th, 2006 at 6:41 pm# 80;
What? Do you mean ‘vile’ as in twat?
July 11th, 2006 at 6:43 pmWell try this on,Honey.
Go promote your stupid-ass web sites somewhere else,Dip-shit.
Thinkidiot:
I doubt you are in the Army. If you were, you wouldn’t have time to blog all day.
What unit are you in, and where are you based out of ?
July 11th, 2006 at 6:49 pm#90 Bill Gant: Damn, Bill. I was going to ask ToiletBrain=TalkShit that. Good work. I wonder what sort of turd blather will eminate from it’s feeble brain for an answer.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:10 pmthanks for that, james… but i got nothin’…
July 11th, 2006 at 7:12 pmi seem to recall that ? was posting and then changed to TP=TS during the course of that day… but i think it was way before 7/6… i thought i could get some hints by going back there…oh well…
so not worth anymore of my time…
and learn how to talk to people! as a troll, i know you don’t know the finer points of interacting with people, but, to call a woman much brighter than you a ‘t===’ is vile…
July 11th, 2006 at 7:25 pmIt’s almost as bad as calling her a c***.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:31 pmI thought TP had measures to protect someones identity on this blog. Obviously someone has figured a way around it.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:33 pm#96
well, one way is to not use your real name and link to a site that is your own and has links to your email address, etc… it seems like protection if you can log in as zzzzzz or sy bil and not have a link, no? or, you, mr. evil. no one can find out who you are…at least, that is my understanding. am i missing something?
July 11th, 2006 at 7:36 pmI remember this was a problem a few months ago here. TP made a post regarding it and took measures assuring us that it was fixed. Something to the affect that names would be associated to the original email address presented with it. So, according to TP if someone tried to logon as Mr. Evil, they would have to match the email addy I assigned to my nic. But as with anything else on the internet it’s as good as it can be until someone is determined to undermine it.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:42 pmJames Risser:
You’re a good one to talk.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:44 pmSome of the crap you’ve put out as ann coulter,many would think to be ‘vile’.
Why don’t you go and play on your own sites? Could it be because there is no one there for you to play with,so we are stuck with you here?
And take katy with you,Dickhead.
oh, i never knew about that feature…
July 11th, 2006 at 7:46 pmHow can you treat a terrorist with the Geneva Conventions code of conduct? Yeah, we should give them the same kind of respect they’ve been giving us.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:50 pm#102
it is a matter of self-respect, and not about the other deserving it….
as i said above,
the geneva convention applies to our treatment of others. everyone on the planet does not have to sign it. if the bush crime family drags you out of your neoconservative hovel and locks you to the inside of a box car for seven years because you are posting on think progress with all us crazy radicals, then, you would be hoping that you were given the opportunity to have a day in front of a minimally, at least, fair tribunal, no?????
July 11th, 2006 at 7:53 pmBut I guess you can have a Si Byl and a Sybil.
July 11th, 2006 at 7:57 pmThe Geveva Convention is not the Bible or Koran or the code of conduct law in the state of Wyoming…… It is a treaty signed by GOVERNMENTS. These gorilla terrorists don’t belong to a GOVERNMENT. They don’t even belong to a gang. And yet, we give them 100 time the respect that they deserve.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:04 pmyes, it is a treaty that the signators are obliged to follow. it talks about how the signatories are to treat people, not the reverse….
July 11th, 2006 at 8:10 pmHow many heads have we cut off Risser? How many bombs have we blown up in markets? We have people detained on a foreign soil. Caught on the battle field after 9/11. It’s not supposed to be a vacation at Daytona Beach. It’s prison, Cuba style. I’d rather go to Cuba than a state prison in California. How bout you?
July 11th, 2006 at 8:15 pm#103 Jim: You don’t sound any better than the terrorists. If you want to kill and maim seemingly with impunity to get your sadistic jollies then buy a plane ticket to Iraq and go and kill what you perceive to be terrorists. Which I’m sure in your mind is anyone Arab and/or Muslim.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:18 pmI don’t sound any better than a terrorist? I wonder if a terrorist feeds their captives three times a day? I wonder if a terrorist gives reading material to their captives to satisfy their captive’s beliefs. It’s not a Arab or Muslim thing. IT’S A TERRORIST THING!
July 11th, 2006 at 8:24 pmHow many heads have we cut off Risser?
that’s not our style…
How many bombs have we blown up in markets?
uh… really?
We have people detained on a foreign soil. Caught on the battle field after 9/11.
most have been turned in for the “reward” and/or revenge…
It’s prison, Cuba style.
really? communist style? hmmm…
I’d rather go to Cuba than a state prison in California.
the prisoners have had their day in court…
Comment by comment by jim — July 11, 2006 @ 8:15 pm
please… go talk with your like minded “friends”…
July 11th, 2006 at 8:27 pmthis having to defend and uphold the CONSTITUTION to idiots is so tiring…
that’s all for you…
What side are you on Evil?
July 11th, 2006 at 8:27 pmOkay Katy. Here is what you want to hear. IT IS THE GOAL OF THE UNITED STATES OF COMMUNIST AMERICAN TO HEREBY ANNOUNCE, ALL COUNTRIES THAT ARE NON LIKE US, WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO INVADE, DESTROY, AND CHANGE YOU TO OUR VALUES. WE DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY. INSTEAD, WE WANT TO FEED ON YOUR SOULS AND MAKE YOU DO HARD LABOR FOR US AND OUR ALLIES. WE NEED SLAVES AND THE FEELING OF POWER TO COMPLETE OUR VERY BEING!!!!!!
Honey, am I to far off?
July 11th, 2006 at 8:35 pmAnn Coulter; go jump off a cliff before I strangle you with your own jock strap.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:36 pmNo, Jim, it’s an ANGER thing. And you seem to possess plenty of it.
The United States is supposed to be better and smarter than they are. We are not supposed to nor should we lower ourselves to that level. We have a better society and better pretty much everything else. If we allow ourselves to be manipulated into believing that the only answer is to kill people on a whim because they are possibly terrorists or of terrorism then that only makes us reactionary paranoids. Treating the symptom only exacerbates the problem. Eliminating the cause solves the problem.
I think those people are sick and tired of being invaded, manipulated and exploited by outside entities as they have been for hundreds of years. But I also admit that they allowed themselves to be manipulated by a religion that allows it’s leaders to use death as a means to an end.
So is tit-for-tat an acceptable foreign policy to you? Or can we be smarter, better and willing to move forward from the total debacle Iraq has become?
July 11th, 2006 at 8:38 pmHow many heads have we cut off Risser?
—i don’t know; how many 14 year old girls have the iraqi soldiers raped, murdered, and burned to avoid prosecution? whether her head was remaining on her dead corpse is a question you would have to ask the army….
How many bombs have we blown up in markets?
—i imagine quite a few. when negroponte ran the phoenix project during vietnam, the same strategy was used. coincidence? maybe.
We have people detained on a foreign soil.
—we have people in guantanamo that were ‘traded in’ to us authorities because the us had a bounty of $500 for afghanis to turn in other afghanis. do they count?
Caught on the battle field after 9/11. It’s not supposed to be a vacation at Daytona Beach. It’s prison, Cuba style. I’d rather go to Cuba than a state prison in California. How bout you?
—you are assuming i would do something to be in either. if i had no rights and was tortured and held until i died without seeing a lawyer, then, i would prefer a state prison in california.
i hope that helps with your ‘problem’
July 11th, 2006 at 8:44 pmI agree with you on a couple of points Dr. Evil (I feel weird when I say that). The middle east has been in turmoil forever. The religion these terrorists use is not meant to be used in the way that they use it. You’ve got nuts in every religion. But, these nuts hit our soil. 3.000 DEAD. Is that just the start? If you let these groups go unchecked, then roll the dice to see who is next. Nobody wants war. Except the insane. The fact of the matter is, whether you agree or not, we are in Iraq and Afhganistan, we cannot just cut and run. Look at Somolia and Beriut. Sooner or later, freedom has to draw a line. Europe got a taste after drawing the line after a few papers drew a certain cartoon.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:49 pmRisser, thanks for convicting people (American troops) for something before they are found guilty. The people in Cuba were caught on a battle field. Thanks Risser for showing everyong that Islamic terrorists are more in tune with morality than the average American. Remember, nine million Iraqis voted in their last election, by far a higher percentage than our last presidential election, and they had to walk through deserts facing the possibility of being executed by terrorists.
July 11th, 2006 at 8:56 pm# 7. Zooey:
I think I’m starting know what ‘Pay back !’ really means.
Emmett and Nino were just talking amongst themselves in the middle of the night.
Good one!
Comment by Chuck
You know what? I’ve lost the ability to track the direction of this thread, and I don’t know what you’re talking about!
Emmett & Nino were wondering about a conversation between myself and For Truth on last night’s ThinkFast PM thread, but what it means here, I have no idea.
This part isn’t going to make any sense except to Bingo:
July 11th, 2006 at 9:00 pmBingo, are you messing with me?
#117
alright perry mason, how many ‘head-choppers’ were indicted and sentenced for their alleged crimes?
how do you explain the existence of a us backed program to turn in afghani’s for $500? are you saying it doesn’t exist, or, if you next door neighbor turns you in because he stole your goat, does that mean the alleged thief was on the ‘battleground’
since the average american voted for a war-criminal that illegally invaded and occupied another country, and has perpetuated numerous war crimes, i wouldn’t shout too high about how ‘moral’ you are compared to the islamic.
and as voting, what does that have to do with anything? it was an after-thought, remember? justification for war #5 i think….
July 11th, 2006 at 9:04 pm[…] UPDATE: More here, and it’s not good. […]
July 11th, 2006 at 9:07 pm#120
as you will see, there hasn’t been a focus on the subject of the thread for over four hours, or about 80 posts. that happens quite a bit around here… i read your blog on the run, and see that you were somehow associated with the torturer we were origianlly discussing in here. yes, people are pissed about it, but, as i said earlier today, the bush crime family will simply install your old class-mate as a recess appointment. his hearings will be delayed, and, as with other miscreants, such as john bolton, and probably c. boyden gray, the war-criminals bush and cheney will get their wish with a recess appointment.
your friend will blend into the woodwork of the bush crime family, and will remain there with his lifetime appointment, spouting his neoconservative hateful agenda at every turn.
tell your friend that it sickens me that someone of his ilk could be elected local dog catcher, let alone this post. it is shameful, and as one familiar with the legal community, find it offensive.
james risser
July 11th, 2006 at 9:19 pmJim, are you familiar with the Project for the New American Century, newamericancentury.org? All of the followers of this ridiculous cabal are in or have been or are close to the Bush administration. Go there and spend a couple or a few hours reading the outrageous plan they have for America and the world. Once you understand that that is the reason we are Iraq (and the only reason) then maybe you will also figure out that the rest of the world might have something to say about it. I don’t want to live in that world. I want to live in the United States of America that our founding fathers had in mind. By being great and free within the rest of the world would eventually follow suit to one extent or another. Not perfect, but certainly less costly in terms of money AND lives.
Osama bin Laden was on the C.I.A. payroll and received extensive training and supplies in the 1980’s while Afghanistan was fighting the then Soviet Union’s attempted annexing of that country. Why do you think bin Laden was never caught? Do you really believe that with all our technology and resources that we cannot find one frail man walking in the mountains? I like to believe that we are more diligent than that and not that inept. If it was so easy for bin Laden’s family members to find him just before 9-11 to attend one of his son’s wedding then why could we not pressure them to tell us where he was? Aren’t the bin Laden’s, Saudi Arabia George Bush’s friends? They have had a very lucrative business relationship for many years with his father so it seems to me that they would want to make things right, so to speak. I think Osama was bought and paid for and protected. It would be very easy for someone of his stature in the middle east to recruit 19 or so dimwits to buy into whatever plan he had for them.
When someone can convince me how a few dregs of the world could get NORAD to stand down on 9-11 so that they would not send up fighter jets to intercept not one, not two, not three, but FOUR hijacked airliners that all deviated from their flight paths in ways that should have gotten an immediate response, then I’ll entertain the argument that it’s simply about terrorists that hate us. Any time an airliner or any plane that has filed a flight plan deviates from it’s intended plan a fighter is scrambled to intercept it almost anywhere in the U.S. and can be in sight of the plane within 10 minutes. This did not happen until it was, sadly, too late.
Something sinister is going on here. Just because we live in the U.S. doesn’t mean that we don’t have our share of super elites that are bent on control. It’s been tried all over the world before and we are not immune to it either.
I know this post is rather long but, the real question is are you patriotic to a president or a political party or to an insane group of people powerful enough to do as they please or to the constitution and bill of rights of the United States of America?
July 11th, 2006 at 9:21 pmBTW Jim, it’s Mr. Evil not Dr. I don’t have a Phd… yet.
July 11th, 2006 at 9:22 pmTP not deleting Sy-bile’s other posts does not mean he is innocent. Just as Judd told Seixon this afternoon, he doesn’t take orders. Good for him.
If it wasn’t Sy-bile, it his little brother or co-worker doing it. And unless someone else confesses to it, I will believe it was Sy-bile. Simply because it is that persistent and nasty. And I’ve been ignoring it - what better way to get my attention?
Though Seixon not in here screaming his head off about being falsely accused doesn’t look good for him either. He wasn’t posting as himself during that time frame either.
Either way, whoever was pretending to be me is a a childish coward who obviously cannot debate me on the issues as himself (that was not a woman who did that). I’ll take it as a compliment.
July 11th, 2006 at 9:26 pmCorrection to first paragraph in post 120: By being great and free from within, where the rest of the world would eventually follow suit to one extent or another.
Sorry for the error.
July 11th, 2006 at 9:30 pmWhen an administration uses torture and ignores the Geneva Convention they show the world they have no humanity. Their flip-flop at this time has only to do with political expediency and not with human decency or compassion, since these people, based on their words and actions, appear to be completely without the qualities that make people human.
July 11th, 2006 at 9:32 pmCorrection to #118: I am not a “friend” of Mr. Haynes. He was my freshman hall counselor in college almost 30 years ago, and I have not seen him since he graduated. From what little I did know of him then, however, I’m mystified that he would have allowed himself to be involved in anything like this, let alone take the central role described.
July 11th, 2006 at 10:29 pm# 122.unbelievable;
Judd deleted the post about Jay Randal;didn’t he ?
July 11th, 2006 at 10:35 pm# 122.unbelievable;
Get over yourself,you’re not that important.
July 11th, 2006 at 11:02 pmWho really cares if someone posted in your name?
Post 126 > What post was deleted about me on here? I have NOT been on TP all day today > just reading the threads before I go to bed! Somebody used my name on here once, so some Bush lover troll is trying to defame us on TP threads!
July 12th, 2006 at 3:48 amNote: referring to yesterday not today Wednesday!
July 12th, 2006 at 3:49 amMr. Evil, if I get what your saying, and you said alot, if we as a nation just sit back and enjoy our freedoms, live life the way it should be, that other nations and peoples will see what we have and follow our path to freedom. How were we living as a nation before the first and second world wars? I’m going to check out your web suggestion though.
And for Risser, the terrorists are taping and broadcasting cutting heads off and dragging bodies down the streets. Gomer Pyle could indict using that evidence.
If our troops raped and killed somebody they should face the death penalty themselves. But lets at least remember there is a due process, inocent until PROVEN GUILTY!
July 12th, 2006 at 7:41 amGet over yourself,you’re not that important.
Who really cares if someone posted in your name?
Comment by Si Byl — July 11, 2006 @ 11:02 pm
Apparently you care to keep making sure a big deal about it.
Your actions oppose your words. You keep detailed mental note of every time I post, go out of your way to address my comments specifically as if they are highly important, and accuse me of being everyone in here except you and the Norwegian you have a crush upon.
You treat me like I’m very important, otherwise you wouldn’t feel a need to contradict me, insult me, and try to ridicule me. As I keep telling you freakshows, people who are indifferent act like it. You act like I’m capable of influencing the entire planet.
So, prove I’m not important and stop speaking to or about me. I bet you can’t. I am that important to you…
Jay - no one posted as you today. Sy-bile was refering to the prior episode. As far as I know there have been no others. It’s either this creep or Seixon doing this. Whoever eventually gets banned for it - we’ll know which one was doing it.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:10 amLets just execute all captured terrorist’s from now on as the Left doesn’t want us to us them for information anyways. I am serious, just put a bullet through the heads of each terrorist we catch so the american media can save the time they would have spent talking about the importance of terrorist rights and move on to interesting news.
Comment by Gary
July 12th, 2006 at 10:26 am===============
You mean suspected terrorists,don’t you?
I have just one comment:
Those who are willing to give up everything that they stand for, just for the sake of winning, will wind up becoming that which they are trying to destroy.
Comment by Unholy Moses
July 12th, 2006 at 10:35 am================
I couldn’t agree more,Unholy Moses.
But for most Bush supporters,your words would be an unintelligible series of clicks and buzzes.
WE DON’T TORTURE ANYONE. Only wussie liberal wackos like you consider our interrogation techniques to be torture.
Comment by ThinkProgress=ThinkStupid —
July 12th, 2006 at 10:51 am======================
Some were beaten to death.That’s some interrogation technique.
You’re right.It may not be torture–it’s murder.
# 131.
How surprised and embarrased are you going to be when you figure out that neither Seixon nor myself put your poo in your mouth;but I can only speak for myself.
July 12th, 2006 at 10:59 amWhen you finally figure out who is doing you,I’ll accept your apology.
I have just one comment:
Those who are willing to give up everything that they stand for, just for the sake of winning, will wind up becoming that which they are trying to destroy.
Comment by Unholy Moses
================
I couldn’t agree more,Unholy Moses.
But for most Bush supporters,your words would be an unintelligible series of clicks and buzzes.
Comment by Steve53 — July 12, 2006 @ 10:35 am
I wonder who you guys are going to support to be the next president? Can it be someone currently in congress. If so, you only have a few to choose from, since the VAST majority of congress voted to continue the mission in Iraq. When they took the vote, I didn’t here any “clicks and buzzes”. Oh, wait, I think I did hear Ted Kennedy belch. Have you guys ever supported any kind of military action that the United States has taken?
July 12th, 2006 at 11:49 amWhen you finally figure out who is doing you,I’ll accept your apology.
Comment by Si Byl — July 12, 2006 @ 10:59 am
It’s you. And I’m still waiting for you to apologize for all the lies and false attacks you have made against me. It is YOU who owes the apologies.
July 12th, 2006 at 2:21 pmMr. Evil, I enjoyed reading your comment #120. I don’t agree with it but it was interesting. NORAD was created during the cold war to monitor missle launches and foreign aircraft. NORAD was never intended to monitor U.S. civilian air traffic. That responsibility was with air traffic controllers. That policy was altered after 9/11. Where did you read that NORAD was on stand down during 9/11? How can NORAD stand down when it wasn’t being used to monitor U.S. civilian aircraft to begin with?
July 12th, 2006 at 2:24 pmLook unbelievable:
It seems like every time I’m minding my own business,my name comes up,or someone else posts under your name.I reserve the right to respond.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:40 pmNow except for playfully denying Denny,I never object when you guess an alter ego right,so why would I object so strenuously now? Ask yourself that.
And another thing:
Like everyone else,sometimes I’m right,sometimes I’m wrong.
I apoligise for what I’ve gotten wrong about you.
Now,that said,would you care to retract the false and unfounded slur you made about me on the Brit Hume thread? I thought you were a good liberal;your bigotry astounded me.
July 12th, 2006 at 4:03 pmBy the way;I didn’t even show up on that thread,but you brought me up anyway.
I really don’t expect,or want,your apology. Someone who is always right never needs to apologise.
God dammit, Bingo…
July 12th, 2006 at 4:49 pmwonder who you guys are going to support to be the next president? Can it be someone currently in congress. If so, you only have a few to choose from, since the VAST majority of congress voted to continue the mission in Iraq. When they took the vote, I didn’t here any “clicks and buzzesâ€. Oh, wait, I think I did hear Ted Kennedy belch. Have you guys ever supported any kind of military action that the United States has taken?
Comment by comment by jim —
========================
Jim,I’ll first support one of the few who didn’t support the Iraqi invasion.But if my candidate is not on the ticket come Nov.,2008,I’ll support the Democrat candidate–probably (the lesser of two evils,imo)
I believe the military’s legitimate function is to protect the weak.I suspect that we would not agree upon what conditions would warrant that military intervention.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:39 pmSometimes you’re right? You’ve NEVER been right. Not once.
I’d be happy to apologize if you can show me where on this thread or the on prior where I invoked you or said your name PRIOR to you showing up and insulting me. (Hint: I was ignoring you and without cause, you showed up and started insulting me.)
So, from here on out, every time you address me, it will be taken as an obsession and validation of my importance to you - regardless of what you say. Actions speak much, much louder than words.. Try to have a nice life. I know it’s hard, but try anyway.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:54 pm# 17. unbelievable:
And I thougt you were a vegetarian.tsk.tsk.
Comment by Si Byl — July 11, 2006 @ 3:57 pm
I had not said one word to or about you that day, and you started with that…
See, you want it. I’m just not interested. Good-bye.
July 12th, 2006 at 6:59 pm# 141.Zooey:
You should know that it’s against club rules to make derisive facial gestures and condecending remarks to fellow club members.
July 12th, 2006 at 7:10 pmI’ve spoken with the board and we’ve decided to postpone your probation;but to relate to you that if this happens again we will have to have Shamika give counseling.
It’s understood that Chuck might have misinterpreted something;he is being dealt with right now.
Steve 53, I thought the military was to protect the United States. However, I’m assuming your thinking of something like a United Nations military intervention. Like doing missions in Sudan or Haiti? Your probably right though, I don’t think we would agree on deployment of military forces. But, I RESPECT you position. Your decision comes from the heart from the way I read you, and I RESPECT that very much. The problem I have is “conspiracy people”. You are based on a idiology, not a political whim……
July 12th, 2006 at 7:16 pmYou should know that it’s against club rules to make derisive facial gestures and condecending remarks to fellow club members.
Comment by Board of Directors aka B.o.D.
I’m waving at you, but I’m not using all of my fingers, and I’ll kick Shamika’s ass, Billy Bob.
July 12th, 2006 at 8:32 pm# 147.
You seem like such a nice,feminine,person.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:50 am[…] Senators from the “Gang of 14†expressed concern yesterday over President Bush’s nomination of William J. Haynes II to the 4th Circuit, heightening the likelihood that the nomination will be filibustered or outright defeated. […]
July 14th, 2006 at 9:19 amThe comments by Gary and Think Stupid are either lies or the verbal flatulence of amoral cretans.
There is no reason to directly respond to anything they say; in their world there is no room for honest discussion. Ignore their rantings and discuss the issues.
Otherwise you play right into their hands.
Ignore them and they will go away. Try it for a week and they will be gone forever.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:54 amI don’t think “people’s minds” is what Stupid has been blowing, at least not on this thread.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:47 pm